Hawks

By bonitis

November 11, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

wish i could watch this game…oh well, go falcons!

sekou, are we making an effort to force the tempo? since we only scored 40 points in the half, im guessing the answer is “no.” i hear a lot of talk about trying to, but i dont get why its so hard! just run!

By Sekou K. Smith

November 11, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

No you don’t. And no. These guys aren’t pushing the pace at all. They’ve settled into a nasty half court habit and are on the cusp of getting run off the floor right now (56-41 with 9:53 to play in the third). They’re going to lose more than they win playing like this.

By Ohhh Mannn

November 11, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

I know we need to win this game, but damnnnnnnnn look at Eddie Jordan. 0 and 5 start and firing rumors got his azz looking bad. He looks like he hasnt slept in 2 weeks and was drinking all night. Lue looks like he is about to cry. You know when women are going through they will cut all the hair off, stab ur tires , paint ur car i mean im just sayin.I would give AJ SOLO and Mario more time.These guys are begining to think playing time is automatic. Hawks will get close at the end, hope they can pull it out.

By Sekou K. Smith

November 11, 2007 3:38 PM | Link to this

let me get this straight, the Lakers traded Caron Butler for Kwame Brown? And they wonder why Kobe’s upset with the front office. Ha.

By Sekou K. Smith

November 11, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

Sooner or later Joe Johnson is going to have to show some emotion on the floor. These guys need something to get them going and maybe some fire from their best player would do the trick.

By mykhalc

November 11, 2007 3:43 PM | Link to this

SEKOU, can we say UNINSPIRED??? pretty pathetic effort…

By bonitis

November 11, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

did tlue really cut his hair off?

keeping with the hair theme: yeah, butler can play, but kwame has some niiice hair.

our man joe is off again today. is he still taking good shots or chucking them up jsmoove style?

down 14…lets go!

By Sekou K. Smith

November 11, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this

Butler’s a big time player. I love his game. Hawks down 78-65. But they’re not getting any stops and playing at the pace the Wizards want. This is a recipe for sure disaster.

By doc

November 11, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

fortunately i cant watch, let us see behind by 15 in the third quarter against a team with a gimpy guard and three bigs but one in recovery after heart surgery a month ago. well i want to see what the kool aide gang can say about this. jj has something wrong with his stroke had it preseason and it has followed him into the regular season.

gee, overmatched against a team that is 0 and 5. guess our hawks felt that they should win on their early press as a 2 and 3 team with two almosts in the win column and not have to show up. well seems acie finally has a few assists finally. tell me how far almosts get you or “good” losses get you in the nba on a nhl budget? yeah i guess there is plenty of time.

By bonitis

November 11, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

somebody needs to light a fire under their butts…literally.

they will probably run if theyre on fire.

By bonitis

November 11, 2007 4:06 PM | Link to this

87-77. were making a run? how?

By smartguy

November 11, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

Why does Joe get a free pass? He seems like he has checked out on this team, and he does indeed look uninspired (even for Joe) most of the time.

I still think Woody is the worst coach. Win one, lose two. That ain’t gonna get it done. Maybe Joe is as dismayed with playing for Woody as I am tired of cheering for a team coached by him.

By Wellll

November 11, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

Got it to 5 and thats it. This was a reallllll stinker. 38% FG and 2% three point. Our Big 3 bombed badd. Acie never got going. There is something to this Joe Johnson thing. I wouldnt be upset if he got his minutes cut. Those comments are showing in his play now.

By Sekou K. Smith

November 11, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Run, schmun. Jamison is hustling cirlces around Joe Johnson right now. And the Wizards have Arenas out there going straight to the basket late in the game (he either gets a layup or gets fouled). Hawks settled for bad shots, didn’t have a point guard on the floor in the final minutes and didn’t play with the urgency the Wiz did when it mattered (basically from the opening tip).

Hawks let Wiz off the hook. They had a team with an 0-5 record in their place and didn’t put the pressure on them. I’d have gone at them the entire night.

The other thing that sticks out is how the Hawks just allowed the Wiz to dictate the game to them without any fight. Again, they’ll lose more than they win this season playing that way.

By JJ

November 11, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

man i am so glad i did not jump on the bandwagon as long as the hawks have mike woodson as the head coach this team is not goin anywhere. WE won’t run becuz that dubmazz woodson won’t let the team run. Please somebody fire him. Woodson is holding this team back big time with his dumbazz deciscions.

By Harry Hawk

November 11, 2007 4:33 PM | Link to this

Best stat line of this game:

Shelden Williams: 0 Min 1 TO

Kinda reminds me of Doug Edwards.

By roan st

November 11, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this

Will billy knightmare be on the bench soon? I think he should have to stand up for this roster just as waddell did for his.

I think the hawks really have to start thinking trade to balance out this roster. The way marvin is starting to rebound to go along with the scoring I think we must consider trading one of the two joshes. Josh Smith straight up for biedrens. Would golden state make that trade? Maybe we package childress and somebody for a decent center. Sooner or later one of these wing players has got to go. No getting around it folks it is enevitable.

By Greg

November 11, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

I love the Hawks,and what we have done in acquiring young talent, but we keep losing games the same way the last 2 years and this year. Bad rebounding. In all of our loses we have been out rebounded by double digits. When are we going to address that issue. Also I don’t know what makes us think we are a half court team. I want to be excited about this team so bad, but with each team in the East getting better it just seems we are in the same position as our other losing seasons.

By Harry Hawk

November 11, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

I can’t see Woody keeping his job if this team won’t run. Clyde’s been saying it for years, but Woody has to go. It’s time to shoot the messenger.

By JJ

November 11, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

Fire Woodyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.Pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. I can’t remember a coach who I have dislked more than him.

By A-ville Ranger

November 11, 2007 4:36 PM | Link to this

This team is still dumb as a post.Their shot selection is the worst in the nba.Today while losing at home to the previously winless Wizards they shot .390 as a team .150 on 3s,JJ our leader was 8-24 overall and 2-11 on 3s.This is just a headless team right now.Jose Calderon should be playing point for us,not a rookie who played more sg than pg in college.

By mykhalc

November 11, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

simply put, to me, there is NO ONE leadin’ this team right now!! and if JJ thinks he’s leadin’ this team, he’s havin’ his own brain-freeze right now!!??!!

i’m payin’ to see the game and the lack of everythin’ made it become ‘background’ today…

By kwooden1

November 11, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this

No energy and a lot of missed shots, that is the story of this game. JJ is not shooting well, but even Marvin missed a lot of open shots. That is definitely the best game I’ve seen from Josh Smith this year. This a tough loss, but I can’t say anything about guys missing shots they can hit. The Wizards where a tough team to play because they needed a win badly! Haywood played well, but I think Horford will figure out boxing out better as the year goes along. He won’t have as much of a problem with taller centers if he boxes out better. It was good to see ZaZa, but he definitely had a lot of rust. Keep working guys and bring the energy!!

GO HAWKS!

By JJ

November 11, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

hey mike woodson if there is a “coaching for dummies” convention going on somewhere please go to it.

By curious

November 11, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Great coaching job by Woody. The most stagnant offense ever. If he can’t see TLue is a walking shot clock killer. I wonder how Acie feels when Woody goes without a pg in the 4th rather than play him. MW played well on offense no defense. Butler was destroying him. They switched and put JS on Butler and then Jamison destroyed MW. Another thing everytime you knock someone down you don’t have to help them up. Woodson has maybe one of the best running teams in the game and won’t let them run. Nash avg 5 turnovers. He has a rookie pg that he won’t let make mistakes. Any young pg is going to make mistakes he has to be able to play through them and get better.

By Daniel

November 11, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Kobe for JJ, AJ, T-Lue. Seriously.

We need an identity BAD. Kobe may be a diva but he will put butts in seats and will close out games. JJ’s a Marine but we gotta get over it and start some winning NOW.

Plus he is the only player we could trade JJ for that would be equal value. I love JJ but we need the killer instinct of Kobe here.

By mykhalc

November 11, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

curious, i agree with you on lettin’ ACIE play thru his mistakes. 5 assists in 13 mins shows improvement too. but what is killin’ me is he pickin’ up his dribble when he crosses half-court at WOODSON’s direction/half-court offense design or is that on him???? ‘cause LUE poundin’ the ball as an alternative is NOT a winnin’ option!!!!

JS and HORFORD did have solid games today tho. and i agree with kwooden1, JS played smart, controlled yet attackin’ ball. HORFORD, the cat just has a motor. definitely a welcomed addition!!!

i HATE the half-court offense. HATE IT…PERIOD!!!!!

By jlewis

November 11, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

Sekou:

Maybe JJ has no energy because he doesn’t believe in the system and what they are doing. Instead of calling out the players, when is your paper going to call out the coach and say a change should be made?

By mountain_jim

November 11, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

How long before the ownership pulls Woodson’s plug like they did for the hockey team?

I would love to see him replaced before this season ends up like last.

By curious

November 11, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

Another thing that I think is important. I don’t think JS or JJ came out in the second half. I haven’t played any professional game but they have to be fatigued. This is common from Woodson with both of them. JJ looks tired of the offense and he looks disinterested. JS got those two early foul calls both of which were terrible. I wonder when Woody is going to take a T because his players get bent over every game by the refs. Against the Celtics, Smith got fouled at least 4 times no call. JJ and MW no calls. Sometimes a coach has to take one for him team. GA got calls againgst JC when he initiated all of the contact.

By Just sayin'

November 11, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

mykhalc You make some good points but I can’t read your post without getting aggravated.Please put a g after an n once in awhile.

By JJ

November 11, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

I don’t get why we should stop throwing up shots without thinking as if we get a bonus for each one.I mean even a blind sqirrel gets a nut once in awhile.We can’t help it if thinking gives us brain freeze can we.I don’t understand why you people wouldn’t want to shell out hard earned money for this nonsense.As long as our checks clear and there’s a good strip club around, we’ll be happy.

By mykhalc

November 11, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

Just sayin’, i mean Just saying, just put me on ignore!! come on, you wanna control my writin’ style, on a BLOG!!???! LOL

By doc

November 11, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

does lol mean lots of laughs or lots of luck myk. i can’t believe how your karma will turn out by being soooo insensitive to that obsessive compulsive control freak. heh heh

just flat ugly today. stats dont mean a thing when the 3 “stars” end up with 20 a piece and the team ends up with a loss to an 0 and 5 team. i guess that also changes that stat about losses to really good teams and playing against folks with high win percentage when you dump in the 0 fer 5 in there. time to rewrite the script a bit sekou.

By Daniel

November 11, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

Well I’m er..I am..just sayinG. If you’re from the south you have been understanding words without the ‘g’ for a long time. Get over it.

How about discussin’ some ‘D’ instead? What is going on? Jsmoove..er..Mr.Josh Smith was a bit off today.

By mykhalc

November 11, 2007 6:37 PM | Link to this

DOC, Daniel, LOL. it really kinda made my day!! i mean, that was ACTUALLY a first, a LIFETIME first!!! i mean, how often do we get those????LOL TRIPPIN’, with issues, no doubt!!!!!!!LOL

ok, somebody help me understand WOODSON’s press conf pls!!! he’s got to re-evaluate the PG position or how he’s not givin’ ACIE mins down the stretch??? (i’m askin’ this with that classic WOODY look on my face too!!!)

By Clyde

November 11, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

This is getting out of hand.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Astro Joe

November 11, 2007 7:24 PM | Link to this

Sekou, no wonder I couldn’t find you at the arena today.

OK, eye-witness account from the Low (excuse me) Highlight factory today. Wizards were determined that they would break their 0-for-season streak while Hawks seemed to think they could just “turn it on” once the caffeine kicked in. The entire Wizards team wanted it badly (even Tin Man Haywood). They grabbed every loose ball, battled under the glass and kept pushing the pace. Hawks played like they collectively take naps at 2:00 and couldn’t quite get their faculties together.

Other miscellaneous notes. BK decided to play a PG-less second half. Lue was ineffective and I don’t really know why Law was pulled (I don’t recall Agent Zero doing anything to the rookie he hasn’t done to countless vets). Marvin missed maybe his first 2-3 shots and then seemed to have a very, very nice all-around game. JJ looks like something ain’t quite right. He shot too many “rhythmless” jumpers today, as if trying to wake himself up. Zaza looked slower than ever, I’m hoping that is the effect of him still not being fully healthy. He looked Duckworth-slow. Woody went with a truly dysfunctional line-up for a long stretch, playing JJ, Joshes, Marvin & Horford/Zaza. That was a distasterous experiment. Sekou, is AJ in the dog house for being with his new born child? WTF?

Mr. Smith. I am afraid to report that Josh’s first inclination when a defensive rebound is pulled down is NOT to run to fill a wing position. Instead, he is returning to the rebounder for the ball, as if he is the designated fast break facilitator. Can’t say if this is his decision or what Woody has asked him to do. Regardless, it is a flawed and ridiculous idea. I watched Horford board and push the ball with Smith running slightly behind him. WTF? By the way, have we even seen one of those signature Smith slams this year? I think dude is going to enter the skills challenge this year, after spending his off-season pretending to be Calvin Murphy.

I had predicted the Hawks would play to the level of their competition. Even against a team that played uptempo, it looked like the guys were smelling themselves and had decided that the winless-Wizards would be no match for a team that beat the Suns, Mavs and held tough against the Pistons on the road.

This team needs a leader like the drum corp that starts the game needs a music teacher.

Oops, one more report. The A Town dancers have one lovely who has her silicon parts pushed up to her forehead. How she keeps her balance is an issue worthy of a GA Tech research project.

By Glutton for Punishment

November 11, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this

OMG !! Why did I spend any money for this game. It was SO BORING !! The guy next to me fell asleep for about 15 mins. I was about to join him. There was NO ENERGY. I was expecting them to come out with some fire after the Boston game but they were more lethargic than I have seen them the last two yrs ( and we all know how those yrs turned out). I could not beleve it.

Now all this talk about a “running team” HAHA. I was running about as fast as they were and I was in my seat the whole time. They would run and then stop after the go over the half court line. Goodness…

They finally decrease Washington’s lead to about 8 pts then JJ played one-on-the world and threw up a air-ball. He played better last year when we had no other options but him. Now that he has some other options, he can’t throw it in the ocean.. It is a good thing this one was not on TV.

The best was Marvin and unfortunately, he is not an aggressive type of play. Sometimes, the one with the hot hand needs to take over but Marvin’s attitude seems like he would rather defer to JS and JJ.

At the beginning of the 3rd q. They started going to the basket and missing 2 lay ups back to back.. That took the air out of them…

This was such a frustating game!! I need a drink !!!

By doc

November 11, 2007 7:32 PM | Link to this

maybe it is the answer to steve t’s question on the last blog friday night. we need at least a functional point guard, agreeing that one doesnt need a great point guard in the nba if there are many in the supporting cast. after being reassured our point guard issue was solved in the draft (yeah, right) after just 6 games we are doubting the readiness of our savior.

now did anyone see how roy got 32 and 7 dimes the other night in a victory and shel got a t o in ZERO minutes. yeah, great job woody and billy. we are continuing on the blazing pace of .333 ball we have been on since the disaster of a start two years ago. that does not equal improvement no matter who you beat. in a common man’s term that is called taking one step forward and two back instead of the other way around.

By Nookah

November 11, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

Folks, I watched mmost of the game. I have to agree with most of you. JJ’s body language is abysmal. He obviously has things affecting him off the court. Whether it is issues with the team or personal it certainly is showing up big time. As one of the leaders of this team the other team members must be seeing this and it must be having a negative effect on the team. I like Marvin’s swagger he looks like he wants to win. Can’t say enough about Al. Zaza was very rusty tonight. He will get better.

I also have to agree with other bloggers too, Woody has to go. Even his body language on the sidelines does not inspire confidence. The Spirit cannot allow this to run away. I think if we have a bad record after 20-30 games, he will be out of here.

Regardless of the outcome I’ll still support them.

Go Hawks!!!

Nuff Respect!!!

By Nookah

November 11, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this

Oh by the way I forgot to tell y’all….don’t worry it will soon be Larry Drew time in the Phillips

Nuff Respect!!!!

By mykhalc

November 11, 2007 7:56 PM | Link to this

JOE, GFP, appreciate the ‘live’ recaps.

i did not understand why ACIE was not in there either. most know i’m for ACIE gettin’ the ball and i will say this again. this team will not go anywhere UNTIL WOODSON has made a true committment to him at PG. sure AJ and LUE will give us those one or 2 games where we go, ‘ok that was more like it’. but they are very, very short-term, game-to-game band-aids!! not even a short-term fix!!!

yes, ACIE has a lot to learn about the pro game. but he IS THE BEST choice at PG NOW and in the future from the cats that are on the team presently!!! he needs to be able to run the team and make decisions regardless of who wants the ball. and yes, that includes JJ!!! who i agree, is playin’ like he’s got a attitude up his butt!! or playin’ like he THINKS his game is beyond the other players on this team now. IF that’s what he thinks, then he needs to bring his game and shot to the court with him next time!!!

BOTTOM LINE…THE TEAM NEEDS A REAL LEADER IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD. AND THAT INCLUDES THE COACH…PERIOD!!!!

By Glutton for Punishment

November 11, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

This is the 1st time that I have every said this but maybe Mike Woodson might need to be replaced. The def. is doing well but the off. is horrific. I have seen better off. sets from a girls jr varsity basketall team.. They really all play one- on- one and they are good athletes but NONE of them are good enough to do thatall game long..

By mykhalc

November 11, 2007 8:13 PM | Link to this

SEKOU, what’s your take on how the players buy into WOODSON’s schemes???(but we all know it is a ‘lack’ of schemes that’s truly present) anyway, pls shed some light…thanks

By bwtbird

November 11, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this

As several of us pointed out two weeks ago…the Hawks would show significant improvement IF Woodson would not only LET them play but PUSH them to play at a frenetic pace…and IF he would commit to Acie and play him 30-34 min a night…well….not only does he not push them he appears himself to have no sense of urgency and the reason is obvious…he himself has NO BELIEF in and clue how to orchestrate a true uptempo system…and he would rather see Lue dribble away 14-16 seconds because he is a vet than let Law learn and grow…and the obsrvations vis-a-vis JJ seem correct…he is not much of a leader and to shoot as many shots as he does and to monopolize the ball as much as he does he simply has to be a better player

By Astro Joe

November 11, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this

Law can’t (or shouldn’t) compete with Smith to be this team’s lead facilitator. I appreciate the frustration with Woody and I could be considered a charter member of the “Woody is a Boneheaded Coach” fan club, but if JJ is supposed to be the lead scorer and Law is supposed to be the up and coming PG, then how does Smith dominating the ball fit in? Riddle me that, Batmen.

By reese

November 11, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

MyKhalc, this feels weird, we have to get game reports from you now. I listened to the broadcast on NBA tv and it was the Washington announcers. They were sayin how long and lean the hawks were and that they are a good runnin team. But it seems as though haywood, caron butler and jamison were the ones getting offensive rebounds and scorin.

I’d swear that there is a cliff note somewhere with how Billy Knight wants every team to describe the hawks.

The hawks only had 11 turnovers in todays game. Both Marvin and Joe took more shots than Josh Smith. Yet, we still lose by 11 points and Josh scores more points than both of them.

I’m not going to rip Marvin or Joe for missing shots down the stretch. I’m glad that they had the guts to take them. But, Josh Smith, you’ve got to make at least 80% of your free throws. Your giving free points away which should be the reward for your hard play.

Each year, if salim, ac or tlue are not producing early, then woodson feels most comfortable having JJ, JC, MW and JS on the floor. That means JJ has to play the point and horford or zaza will get minutes at the center. A point guard replaces josh smith and that means marvin or childress play the power forward position. These are the lineups that woodson trust.

The hawks only take 77 shots and the wizards take 88. To improve the intensity and tempo of the game, I would like to see lineups like AC, SS, JJ, JS and Horford or AC, JJ, JS, Horford, Solomon. Woodson has seen this team enough and should recognize when they are sluggish. He should know who his energy guys are by now.

Then, when we need to slow down lineups: Tlue, JJ, Marvin, Horford and Zaza or AC, JC, JS, Horford, Zaza.

By cp

November 11, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

Did not get a chance to see the game but thanks for the re caps guys. It sounds like the same stuff from the previous 2 years. No fire no energy and Woodson looking clueless..At this point we might as well replace the coach and try a different approach… I dont know what is going on with JJ but if he lets it known he is not happy here get him out of here and bring in someone who wants to be here and will bring it every night. I like JJ but Im not seeing it in this guy this year. Maybe he is fed up with the ownership and coach and I couldnt blame him… Get rid of Woody and bring in somebody who wants to run and run and will light a fire under these guys. Maybe JJ will welcome a change, I know I do at this point.

By TJ

November 11, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

This is a question I would REALLY like answered: Why in the heck is Woodson refusing to play Solomon Jones significant minutes? My Dad and I said before the Celtics game: “If there is ANY time the Hawks need to play the rebounding and shot blocking big man in Solomon Jones, the time will be against the Celtics.” Yet, Woodson, for whatever stupid reason, failed to do so—and we got our butts handed to us on the defensive end. If anything, we could have used his energy and length to help guard against Garnett and others and keep our big men fresh (Zaza doesnt count because he may weigh 260, but plays more like 160). I look at today’s game against the Wiz, and Jones did not play again. It has taken Woodson forever to finally play Salim, so why is he neglecting Jones?

Oh, and why did Acie only play 13 minutes against the Wiz? Hmm?

Thanks Sekou. You do a really good job with keeping us informed.

By curious

November 11, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe What is your problem with JS. He had one turnover and did not dominate the ball. He didn’t even bring the ball over half court 5 times and you’re saying he is competing with Acie. What game are you watching. In the first 5 min of the game JS made 5 great passes out of the post. JJ made one and missed two and MW missed two early. This guy avg. 4 assists a game. More than any pg on this team by far. Acie can’t be the lead pg from the bench. I’m sure you want to blame JS for that too.

By mykhalc

November 11, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

REESE, LOL. be happy to report in!!LOL and i agree with you that WOODSON definitely goes back to his ‘fail-safe’ lineup (JJ, JC, MW, JS, center) when things are not goin’ well. and again i agree with you that it would be the perfect time to insert SOLO, for energy at the least!!!

JOE, though i thought JS had a solid game and played smart, aggressive ball, i did see one play where ACIE clearly wanted the ball off a rebound to run things and JS was not gonna give it up. ACIE was on his left and JS ‘clearly’ did not swing the ball to him but bypassed him and gave it to JJ in the corner, who was on the same side of the court as ACIE. i totally did not get that possession nor decision at all!!!

this team REALLY is a reflection of the coach right now…one that DOES NOT know how to play to their strengths!!!

the ALPHA MALE needs to stand up and show himself!!!!!

By HB Ando

November 11, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

The only thing that is surprising is folks here acting surprised. Seriously, you add two rookies to an imbalanced roster, with a bad tactician and a poor front office, and expect to go from 30 wins to the playoffs???!!!!!

Everything folks are asking for here are all, individually, unlikely. You either want a player, or players, to more than their combination of skills and experience justifies, or you want a the coach to be something he’s not, or you want the front office to do something it’s not going to do.

It would be awful damn funny if it wasn’t so damn sad.

Doesn’t matter how many times moron’s like Steve T say that Billy is doing a good job. It’s not going to make it true. And there simply aren’t any realistic scenarios that upgrade the PG or center positions, this season, regardless of the upside of Horford and Law. They’re still both rookies, and Horford is still a power forward.

This is a lottery-bound team. And Phoenix is just trying to figure out whether they’re getting a top-5 or a 6-10.

And Joe is starting to look like he wants to pull a Vince Carter and not so subtly let ownership know that he wouldn’t mind being part of a package, to move on to a different franchise. What you’re seeing from him, and what he communicated, between the lines, when Sekou interviewed him, is that this isn’t what he was promised when he signed on for this gig. What you’re seeing, with his early performances, and body language, is a VETERAN, who KNOWS this isn’t a playoff team. Again.

Look, let’s enjoy the good nights, like our win against the Amare-less Suns. But those of you with thinning hair should do yourselves a favor and not pull out what you’ve got left, over the Atlanta Hawks.

You ‘07 optimists have let this team set you up for disappointment. Take control of your emotional destiny, put down the kool-aid, and the rose-colored glasses, and prepare yourself for the reality of this season.

Not……a……..playoff…….team.

Now, go ahead and shoot the messenger. I know it eases your pain.

By Lil E

November 11, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this

Maybe some of these guys aren’t getting along too well when the cameras aren’t on them…

By HB Ando

November 11, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

Just like Friday, the silence is deafening…….Y’all don’t go bailin’ off the bandwagon.

By mykhalc

November 12, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

HB ASTERISK (Amare-less SUNS dig), i really feel like you’d rather be right than see the team play better ball???!!!

personally, for me, it’s NOT about playoffs!! it’s about the team playin’ hard, smart and to their strengths!!! there is talent here despite EVERY flaw you can find and name!! and that talent has to be coached and play to its’ strengths regardless of EVERYTHIN’ else!! when we see half-a$$ efforts then that is what it is, whether it be coach and/or players!!! F the playoffs, just come to play ball…PERIOD!!!

By Clyde

November 12, 2007 12:17 AM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By A-ville Ranger

November 12, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this

Of seven NBA games played sunday the team with the higher shooting percentage won….seven.In a league that can’t shoot the Hawks may well be the worst of a bad lot.There are many things that go into team shooting,the best in the league,are also the two time defending champions (Spurs of course) coincidence ?? no way,what it is is revealing.

By MJ3

November 12, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

What’s the deal with AJ? Is he dressing for games? Or he is still off dealing with family matters?

By mykhalc

November 12, 2007 12:52 AM | Link to this

DOC, i got the positive from this game too…WOODSON sayin’ that HORFORD would stay the startin’ center regardless of ZAZA’s return to action!! WOODY still showin’ some activity in the frontal lobe!!LOL

By ray

November 12, 2007 1:18 AM | Link to this

Myk, I’d cut and paste, but it’s a waste of time. Check out my comments towards the end of the last blog to see what I think (if you care to do so, that is) about the loss to the Wizards. While I agree that Woody is showing some cerebral activity in regard to Horford, I also worry. Why? Because I can see him playing big Al like he does JJ: 40+ minutes a game…every game. Big Al ain’t ready for 82 games of that.

Ando, agreed. Completely.

Steve T, I replied to you on the last blog, towards the end. If after seeing the results of the latest “no excuse for it” travesty, you still want to bring it, then bring it. We ain’t fightin’ but we IS cussin’ and discussin’. Ya heard?

Astro Joe, the only answer I have to your last question is this: there is no clear and undisputed leadership on this team. Not the head coach, not the best player. And the pg is a rook. I think Law can be a leader. But when a 3/4 year vet like Smith is doing some of the things he’s doing…well, the situation speaks for itself.

As for all those who act like Smith can do no wrong, I have this to say: with great talent comes great responsibility. Love the kid’s game ability. Don’t love his overall game. He can be so much better. People are mistaking his passion and supreme athletic ability for leadership. And we all love his stats, but don’t be blinded by numbers only.

Having criticized him, the disarray isn’t his fault. Smith is like many other players, especially the young ones. He needs someone to guide him. Someone who has a strong influence on him in the right directions.

So once again, I blame Woody. In the background, you gotta blame BK. He’s the maestro, and his music sucks a$$. He created this, and it isn’t working…AGAIN.

On the bright side, Marvin is showing himself rather well so far. Rather well indeed.

By Flappin Hawk

November 12, 2007 1:20 AM | Link to this

Woody gets 2 more weeks. No more anemic efforts from these young guys. I don’t care how brutal the early schedule has been. These guys are young. After playing such inspired b-ball, the Hawks just crashed back to earth. Let’s get it going, Woody. We have seen the potential of this team. Either you lead them to wins or let someone else. Is JJ injured or something…his shot has been horrendous since the 3rd game?

By ray

November 12, 2007 1:30 AM | Link to this

Steve T, I just read what you wrote at the very end of the last blog. So that’s your idea? Put JJ in at the point guard position? Where were you two years ago when this idea was actually tried (and bombed miserably)? Sheesh…and then you want to run Law and Lue off the bench at both guard spots? Uh…and relegate our best rebounder (Horford) to the bench. Is your last name Woodson per chance?

By ray

November 12, 2007 1:32 AM | Link to this

PLEASE get us another coach…

By mykhalc

November 12, 2007 2:16 AM | Link to this

BIG RAY, i don’t disagree with you on HORFORD not bein’ ready for those kinda minutes. he EVEN knows it!! said it on NBATV that he is seein’ there’s difference between the pre-season and the season in intensity!! the cat is nooooooo dummy for sure!!!

and RAY they got beat today because of their effort or i should say lack of effort. WIZ was not a superior team!! HAWKS were NOT out-manned at any position, not today!!! it was the effort…PERIOD!!!! it was the lack of it from the coach and the players…PERIOD!!!

man, i can live with the HAWKS gettin’ beat by BOS. now that IS a better team, hands down!!! they’ve got better players at every startin’ position except center and they know how to play great team ball. like i told ANDO, it’s about comin’ to play ball EVERY NITE. and on the nites when the legs or will are not there, then the coach has to know how to give the team the best chance to win with subs!! NEITHER PLAYERS NOR THE COACH SHOWED UP TODAY…PERIOD!!! i think it had somethin’ to do with the GA BLUE LAW!!!!!!

By tb

November 12, 2007 3:08 AM | Link to this

Apparently, Woodson is not a Bball coach, at all.

The Hawks reek of division and dis-array. Remember, this Kids vs. Vets power dispute has been going on since the early Josh’s days.

The Hawks have the “talent” to win games, maybe be a winning team. But, the term team only applies to the fact that they are a group. The necessary commonality of direction is not present. There are some attitude problems on this team.

Woodson can’t deal with it. In an attempt to compensate, he persecutes less established players by not giving them PT. For some reason Smoove rules the nest. I don’t think he is a born leader, more the muscle that needs to be directed. Move him to a team with strong, established vet leadership and he would be in for a rude awakening. They would force him to learn how to play on their team. It would change his whole reality.

If you bring in a real coach he is in for a very tough time. Breaking the team culture in place would be a real accomplishment.

Even though he’s the most talented athlete in the bunch, Smoove might be due for another miracle hernia. Remove the head and the monster dies.

Takes more than physical ability to be a player.

What coach?

By mykhalc

November 12, 2007 3:35 AM | Link to this

the more i think about it the more i feel like the HAWKS are ready for their PETRINO!! i’ve never been a fan of WOODSON thus the nick from me MIKE ‘NOT READY FOR PRIMETIME’ WOODSON. but i was willin’ to give him a chance to implement his change of style to fit the style of players here.

but what i realize is that you cannot ‘easily’ change how the players have come to view you as a coach and/or person. WOODSON was given this job IMHO because BK KNEW that the talent would be at a minimum for a number of years in ATL. thus the perfect opportunity for a first-time coach. no expectations, no need to worry!!! EASY!!

well in those years WOODSON was given grade B talent, high school grads, and those with limited college experience. so these cats needed mentorin’ like no other team in the NBA!! so WOODSON has done that. and he probably did a pretty good job at it if you were to ask the players and their families.

but NOW is a different time. a time where a proven master of his craft is needed!!! a time when the incomin’ coach will have NO ALLEGIANCES(sp?) to any player. he will simply communicate, teach, demand, and reward!!! and most importantly, hold people accountable!! he will not have to see himself in a father role to cats that aren’t old enough to go buy a beer!!!

this is not a role that can be easliy reshaped simply because it is what’s needed now. it’s a role that’s best created by someone that has no ties. and someone that is simply better at his craft than where WOODSON finds himself at this point in his coachin’ career…IMHO!!!

WOODSON WAS the perfect man for the job 4 years ago. today calls for someone different!!

By mykhalc

November 12, 2007 3:40 AM | Link to this

TB, travelin’ along the same cosmic path tonite i see!!!LOL

By tony

November 12, 2007 4:37 AM | Link to this

I’m sorry Woodson but you must go. I do wish you well. We need to go after Kurt Rambis. He’s a winner and can articulate the game of basketball very well. GET IT DONE BK!

By Steve T

November 12, 2007 7:23 AM | Link to this

Ray, JJ did not bomb at PG. JJ was needed more at SG. Now that MW is hitting shots, he may be able to play PG full time. It will give us a bigger line up and JJ is one of the best passers in the game.

I think that may be it is time for Woodson to go. How can you beat some of the better teams by running and then slow the game down against the lesser teams. How can you let your players just take bad shots? JJ should be shooting every day after practice. Josh Smith should be shooting. The whole team need to work on free throws.

By A Thinking Fan

November 12, 2007 7:32 AM | Link to this

I was at the game yesterday…

By roan st

November 12, 2007 7:52 AM | Link to this

Guys, don’t forget that our broke ownership group can’t afford a new coach. Why do you think waddell is on the bench for the thrashers! We will have our pick between drew, knight, or possibly even gearon as our next head coach. LOL! Seriously, it will probably be drew if woodson is fired sometime during the season and that would be fine with me. The only question is how far will BK let this thing get out of hand before he makes a move, if he makes a move?

I’m also very concerned about JJ’s obvious frustration with this team because it is showing on the court. I mean its actually having a negative impact on his performance. This franchise desperately needs for this ownership fiasco to be resolved this year so the team can move forward. Hopefully if the spirit are indeed victorious they do have a money backer lined up to step in and help out financially. I HOPE!

By smartguy

November 12, 2007 8:51 AM | Link to this

HELLO!

No one has been more adament, more persistent than I have in pointing out that Woody is a terrible, terrible coach. For over a year, I have been saying that Woody doesn’t know how to set up a rotation, nor run an offense.

Most of this current blog talks of the disgust with the offense. HELLO! Its the same crap we’ve been running for three years previous. Its just as awful now as it was when Woody started. Now that most of Hawks’ world has recognized it, do you think the Spirit can get it??

And when it comes to who plays, when they play, and against whom they play, Woody seems to be throwing darts. He has no clue how to utilize mismatches, and it seems pretty clear that his personal feelings will dictate playing time.

Clyde, maybe you were actually before I, but I think its time to take the next step beyond t-shirts….

By getting old

November 12, 2007 9:14 AM | Link to this

I was at yesterday’s game and have seen each of the games this year. The Hawks settled for jump shots again yesterday. As a season ticket holder for three years now, I know that this is exactly what makes them a lottery team. When the shots fall (like against Phoenix last week) they look unbeatable. When they don’t (which is 3 out of every 4 games) they look like a lottery team. I remember all too often walking out of Phillps last year with a false sense of optimism becuase the Hawks shot the lights out, only to come back to reality over the next 2-3 games as they settled for jump shots and were not hot.

The Dallas game was a glimmer of hope for suffering fans, becuase they truly played team ball, team defense and took the ball to the basket.

Oh well, Woody will likely be gone by the end of December unless these guys wake up.

By JohnGTFan

November 12, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

Well, living in DC, this was the first ATL game I have been able to see on television…I wish I missed it. Half court offense is non-existent. Defense under the rim looks familiar…way too many lay-ups and easy buckets for the opposition…no PG play…way too many jump shots. I’m still hopeful things will change, but if yesterday’s game was an indication of this year’s team…uggghhh.

By JohnGTFan

November 12, 2007 9:52 AM | Link to this

Woodson kinda looks funny there on the sidelines doesn’t he…some “coach”. He looks like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn’t there.

By kwooden1

November 12, 2007 10:57 AM | Link to this

This next game should be a really good gage on what kind of team and coach we have. Charlotte will be coming off a back to back and the Hawks are at Home. We all know the Hawks don’t play well against Charlotte, so this is an opportunity for them to prove something. I think Joe needs to take his first 5-6 scoring opportunities and drive-draw-dish or drive all the way to the basket. (No jump shots and figure out how their playing him) It seems that he keeps taking himself out of rhythm by shooting to many contested 3’s. I still think they just missed a lot of open shots last night and their not a veteran enough team to work their way out of that. Woodson has two full days to get his team focused and ready, so we will see what he can do. They also have to work on their boxing out, to much jumping for rebounds and not enough working for position. Overall I think Woodson’s coaching is signficantly better than last year, but as already stated repeatedly his offensive is not working!

BRING THE ENERGY! PUSH THE BALL!

GO HAWKS!

By jhan

November 12, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

I would have to guess that if this team isn’t close to .500 after 20 games Woody will be gone. All of his players are healthy. I believe he has been mandated to make this a running team. If we don’t win & don’t run, I can’t see any reason for him to stay.

If he doesn’t follow the instructions from his bosses, how can he expect his players to follow his directions?

We’ve been told this is the year this crew must start producing. I don’t think they will wait until the end of the season to pull the trigger. Larry Drew is ready to take over at anytime.

By Clyde

November 12, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

I just don’t get it. If something ain’t working then why in the world would on doing the same thing over and over? Make some changes. Play new players. Make new adjustments in your offensive scheme. Woody told us over the summer these changes have been made but all I see is the same ole sh**! This has been happening for three years now and its time for a change. FIRE BILLY AND WOODY.

And what happened to all those people 2 years ago that kept saying, “Be patient. Give Woody a chance.” Where they at now. Giving him a chance has cost us 3 years. I say time is up. I was hoping yall would see the light a couple of years later but better late than never.

Woody is a good coach; for a veteran ball club. As for teaching young guys how to play the game he is horrible. Why does Josh Smith have to go to Hakeem to learn some post moves? Why can’t he go to his own coaching staff to help him? Is it too much to ask of a coach to help develop young talent?

Bring a coach in that knows how to develop and correctly utilize the talent we have. And hurry up before we lose them.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Flappin Hawk

November 12, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

Gang, It might not be Larry drew…it just might be BK taking the reigns. GO HAWKS!!

By MannyT

November 12, 2007 12:08 PM | Link to this

Small crowd was pro-Hawks, but the place was kind of empty and chilly. Team played similarly. I agree that the energy and the fast pace is not there. Yet, I will say two positive things about yesterday.

The Hawks did get to the line a good amount even though the energy was not there.

The big lineup (Chills at the point-playing some zone) bothered the Wiz for awhile. It could have possibilities if the pace were faster on offense. With less one on one play in the set offense, and a little more passing and motion—there has to be a mismatch that the Hawks can exploit.

They have got to make something positive happen this week.

By randy

November 12, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

HAHA, everytime they lose the mob chants “FIRE BILLY AND WOODY!” I think Woody knows if he doesn’t get to the playoffs this year then he is gone. Anyways, Joe Johnson called and wants his shot back…if anyone finds it please let him have it back.

By randy

November 12, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith posting up is a joke. I think Josh missed the Hakeem class and showed up for “Bricklaying School”.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 12, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this

13-69 three years ago and woodson has’nt changed anything. The reason we looked improved is because our players have been in the league 3/4 yrs now , itz not from coaching and the coach knowing players and situations. I try not to bash woody but its obvious now more than ever before we need a change at the top.

We look like some and 1 all stars(one on one). T lue pounding the shot clock away, joe isolated on the wing for a 3 or some hot sauce type shyt, j smith ignoring the point guards and going coast to coast which leads to turnovers. The real hawks fans deserve alot more. AX woody before Dec1

By reese

November 12, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

TB, your funny and sound more like BK than you realize. You state that we should send josh to a veteran team and let them put him in his place.

Just like BK, your solution is to jettison players away and wait for someone else to develop in the future.

Well, Tayshaun Prince and Andre Kirelinko are on veteran teams and they play like Josh Smith. The get to do it on balanced teams and they get to play their natural small forward position.

Why don’t we bring veterans to the hawks and let Josh Smith play his natural small forward position.

By the way, isn’t that what Joe Johnson is asking for (veterans).

As far as a new coach goes, the first things that he would want are a long term contract and new players to fit their style of coaching. I just don’t see it happening.

Hears my first request for 2007/2008 season to bring Steve Hunter and Steve Francis to the hawks.

By JerryWest

November 12, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

.

How do we know how good Shelden, Joshes, Solomon etc. are before they get the chance to play for a real NBA coach?

How do we know how much $ they are worth until they play in a system?

They could be way better or much worse if they have a concrete system to follow.

Remember, thriving in a system and thriving in chaos require quite different skill-sets(mostly).

.

By G Money

November 12, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

Owners need to put some heat under Woody to play uptempo or get up out of here. It just doesn’t make sense. So the ball gets away a couple times…it happens to PHX. It happens to most team who have a lot of motion…until they get the system down pat. But since we don’t have one and we’re making it up as we go along, I guess we’ll be forever doomed. I’m just glad that I didn’t get the season tickets that I so drooled over a couple of weeks ago. Watching the Hawks is like watching someone being masochistic and just cutting his arm with a dull knife.

By mykhalc

November 12, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

ATF, nice post!!LOL

JHAN, i hope you are right!!

By Omnihawk

November 12, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Leaderless? I would have to agree, but that will all change in time. When Speedy returns, he can come in and be the floor general that can bring all the pieces together. Before the season, everyone was saying that we would be fortunate to win even one of the first six games. Well, here we are two games better than that, WITHOUT SPEEDY! Just imagine once he gets back. Don’t panic yet people. You just have to be patient. Another three years and this team could be a force to be reconned with.

By roan st

November 12, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

“Leaderless? I would have to agree, but that will all change in time. When Speedy returns, he can come in and be the floor general that can bring all the pieces together”.

Please tell me you’re kidding! I hope your post is laden with sarcasm and I’m just not getting it! Otherwise if you want be taken serious on this board you will have to do better than that. Not so speedy claxton has stayed injured his entire hawks stay and is really been just a career backup anyway. Not to mention the guy can’t throw it in the ocean. When speedy gets back he will….. LOL!!

By Omnihawk

November 12, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

Sorry, guess I should have laid on the sarcasm a little thicker. Let me try again.

All this team really needs (besides Speedy) is a dominant presence in the post. Two words…Lorenzen Wright. Oh wait, we also need patience. Lots and lots of patience. Speedy, Lorenzen, and patience will one day get us to the playoffs. Hawks Fever……Catch It!

By honest_abe

November 12, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

just like i said during the summer, mediocre big men have the game of the lives against the hawks.

at least the dawgs won… yeah!

By LAJ

November 12, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

check out article on ESPN Insider from Detroit Free Press. Dude went off on Tyronn Lue during game with Pistons last week and and had to be refrained by coaches after going to the bench.

By supporter

November 12, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this

eric snow wants to play for atlanta he is what they need

By THE Hawks Fan

November 12, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

Yeah thats a lie about Josh Smith and Lue. People need to stop the BS. Ummmm no need for Snow. We have 10 OLD point guards now. We need to whoop up on the Bobbi Cats and all will be well for a minute. Winning cures all. Im really not for a IN season coaching change. Its a true sign that all hope is lost for the season. These guys hit a big lull and the running stopped. They get their legs back coupled with payday on Thursday and we will have our Upstart young HAWKS back!!!

By doc

November 12, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

among changes in mid season that have been successful recently were hubie brown and george karl who came in and took over young teams and had a profound difference in a very short time. riles came in and bumped van gundy however that was a special case, the other two werent.

By Drive Marvin Drive

November 13, 2007 1:52 AM | Link to this

Marvin still loves his jumper way too much. He needs to drive to teh hole much, much more. Please, Marvin.

By HB Ando

November 13, 2007 2:08 AM | Link to this

Myc, this isn’t the first time I’ve been accused of that. I’ll simply maintain that I call it like I see it, and view myself as a realist, who continues to be mystified by optimism that isn’t grounded in reality.

Same GM. Same head coach. Same owners. The addition of two rookie starters; one of which plays a position which is historically unkind to rookies (PG), and the other who is being asked to play center, when he’s clearly optimal at the PF.

I’m simply unclear on why so many folks expected a 40+ win season, when there are so many factors that suggest that outcome is highly unrealistic.

I’ve said, many times, that I’d rather be wrong, and pleasantly surprised (and subject to endless blog attacks), than be right and be subjected to ongoing frustration.

But it is what it is. And I won’t apologize for a firm opinion that we’re a healthy Amare away from being 1-5. I was there. I’m cool with what I saw and what I believe.

By mykhalc

November 13, 2007 3:18 AM | Link to this

ANDO, definitely not lookin’ for nor expectin’ any apologies for your opinions bro. to counter you i’ll add, we’re one bad call away from bein’ 3-3 if MARVIN does not get that bogus foul call on BILLUPS. my point, we can always find a place to put the asterisk. personally, i’d just rather accept things as they played out. no excuses, no asterisks. but that’s just me.

By doc

November 13, 2007 7:24 AM | Link to this

yeah myk, 3 good games and 3 we didnt show. reality is they didnt ever show anything in the nets game; it wasnt as close as the score indicated, got killed in the celts game and fell flat for no good reason against the wiz and they slammed us rather than the other way around. if we only show for half the games then that will be exactly where we were the last two seasons at .333 or just slightly better because of all the talent we have acquired (pause for chuckle).

no way this team can win all the games it decides to show up at and no way as team as poorly manifested as this one can it win any or even a few games where it doesnt play with total committment and heart. too much to expect or ask for. unfortunately, a new coach might change this dynamic, dont know.

i have long said i like the man woody, felt he has been someone that has had them playing hard when others might have given up and had quite a trial a few years back with a young team and a huge personal loss to overcome. give him his credit, at the same time the leash cant be too long to let the season go or at least to not let this team find out who it really is and that might be a coaching change for better or worse. if nothing else it will quickly weed out who is in it and who comes for the check. even if it takes bk coming out of the woodwork to coach, he wont as he will delegate it like west did last year at memphis, then so be it. dont think for a minute there is a real coach to come here midseason; west drew two good guys because of his name. we dont have that because blame it on the coach or the gm the REAL PROBLEM is still the BROKEN ATLANTA SPIRIT. no asterisks on that one bro. heh heh

By Astro Joe

November 13, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

Doc, care to join me in predicting the cliches we will hear from Woody and players during these 2 days of inactivity? I’m looking forward to the “we have to remember to share the ball” comment.

I’d like to think that if we look as bad against Bobcats and Sonics as we did against the Wizards, that a coaching change would be made. But my guess is that the owners have yet another excuse to keep Woody around… distracted players due to contract issues and broken promises (JJ and the promise to acquire veteran help). This franchise can’t get out of their own way.

By The Flash

November 13, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Finally got to see em, and found a whole lot to like, which is not to say that Andoman does not continue to impress, which his first post on this thread certainly did.

1. Ball movement in the half court is light years improved from what I saw last year. Light years.

2. JJ does not occupy the ball nearly as much in the half court as last year, which might explain the pouting, and his play does seem lackluster; have to say, at the same time, he looks like, well, a taller Oscar, only there was a businesslike quality to Oscar that made economical play able to produce reliable results.

It seems to me that JJ almost exudes the following: put it in my hands to make decisions, and I will produce reliably; put it in the group’s hands, and I have trouble trusting, and it translates over into trusting myself. Or, as Ando put it, he came here to be the man and ain’t interested in a new, in his eyes, lesser gig.

As impressed as I am in the improvement in the half court game, there is one major disappointment.

I do not see play operating through the middle, the pivot. To me, an inside-the-defense pivot point to an offense is a necessary ingrediant.

If Horford got touches early in the offense and the offensive flow pivoted off those touches I believe that a lot of good things would happen that are not. Horford has practically no roll in the offensive flow and that, in my opinion, is a huge misstake.

Sekou, you might want to pass this along to JS—let the chest collapse, the breast bone sink back into the chest cavity, in preparation for shooting from the floor or the line.

A few other words about JS’s shot. Anybody else notice that when he is on the line, his toes on both feet are pointed at least 10% to his right. His left shoulder is forward. HIs head is turned similarly to his toes, making it fairly clear (to me at least) that he is looking out of one eye.

These things, combined with an extended, rather than collapsed rib cage (a collapsed rib cage makes the arms far more responsive to what happens below; the cage expands and breast bone moves out and up as a natural response), create, imo, a lack of repeatability with regard to depth. Sort of like the early Tiger, he knew it was going way, way far, which was nice; knowing how far was much, much more important.

If this happens on his foul shot, what’s the chance it is different for his jump shot.

I wonder what Hakeem told him?

Oh, two other things to tell JS. A hook shot needs to be trusted not aimed. I love that JS uses one, but he has to use the lean of his body and foot direction to control the trajectory and direction of the shot, letting his arm flow like a sling shot.

Currently, when he gets on angles he is not familiar with, he interrupts the hook, and then tries to guide with his hands. Destroys the mechanical beauty of the sweep that is the hook shot.

I’m betting that one of his shoulder blades is stuck—that is, does not slide on top of his rib cage side to side and up and down the way he would like.

By the way, very impressed with what I saw of JS, very impressed.

By smartguy

November 13, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

AJ, how about “we need to play together.”

And if the Spirit doesn’t get rid of Woody pretty soon, then I think the Spirit themselves should go. A change has got to be made!

By roan st

November 13, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

Flash, WOW! Maybe the hawks should hire you as a shooting coach! I have never heard shooting a basketball explained in such a mechanical and scientific manner. Personally, I don’t know enough about shooting a basketball to know whethter you’re full of it or a mad genuis. LOL! Regardless the hawks are shooting so poorly in the last few games I’m sure that what ever you had to offer probably wouldn’t hurt.

By Astro Joe

November 13, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

smartguy, yeah, that’s a good one. How about “we need to play the full 48 minutes”.

This is the 4th freakin’ season of this nonsense. I could live with the 2-4 record, hell, if we had lost to Dallas and Phoenix and had beaten Wizards and Nets, we’d still be in the same place. My frustration comes after watching that effort Sunday afternoon. After Law gets benched, after JJ puts up a dozen 3s, after Smith’s insistence on running the break, etc, etc, etc. I’m not seeing any positive signs that this team is any different than the previous 3… more talented, but still lacking consistent effort, a definitive playing personality, leadership and heart. That’s why the quotes are so frustrating, their just hollow empty words.

By A Thinking Fan

November 13, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

mykhalc my friend, all I can say is that I was at the game on Sunday!

It was sooooo SAD! But Sunday itself was a warm and sunny day to ride MARTA!

By curious

November 13, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

I wonder who has the agenda against JS. Funny this originated in Detroit. Makes me wonder who used to coach there.

By ILL-logical

November 13, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this

curious

November 13, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

I wonder who has the agenda against JS. Funny this originated in Detroit. Makes me wonder who used to coach there.

In the AJC story, who was NOT quoted?

By MannyT

November 13, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this

Flash if Josh is looking out of one eye and it is his dominant eye, is that a bad thing?

If the idea is for him to maximize his vision to make the shot, could this be his way of doing that?

By The Flash

November 13, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Larry Bird had a similar allignment. However, he was much softer through the torso, and, I’m not sure, but think that his feet were more square to the target. He might well have had a curve in the spine that made that allignment more comfortable. At any rate, Bird was completely relzsed through his rib cage and sternum, which was collapsed in creating the possibility of expansion in sync with energy transmitted from the ground up.

One benefit of such an alignment is that it actually makes it easier to more nearly creat anL shape with your shooting arm with the elbow pointing directly at the target.

At any rate, it appears to me, feels to me, like Smooth’s rigidity through the torso creates a disconnect between the smooth creation of power below and what happens with the arm and then the release. Then the foul shot, jump shot, is overcontrolled by the wilfull actions of the lower arm and hand that release the ball.

The release is most repeatable when it is the product of the rhythm, timing, degree of force, that the big muscles create. True in any sport.

BTW, I was mightily impressed with MW’s offensive game.

It should now be obvious, following Pete Carrill’s work with the Wizzards in the off season, that how the littles treat the bigs, incorporate them into the game, have a tremendous impact of a big’s ability to produce. Carrill also added a quality of calmness, lack of rush, to Heywood’s offensive game, not to mention a little hook shot.

He, I believe, was the difference last night, and imo, that has everything to do with how the offense gets organized. And, you know my theory that good offense leads to the ability to make important defensive stops. Later.

By tb

November 13, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this

“Hears my first request for 2007/2008 season to bring Steve Hunter and Steve Francis to the hawks.”

Hey, Reese, and you say I’m funny. Francis can’t stay on a team.

I’m not advocating the dumping of Smoove. I just think that he can bring in a lot and that he is involved in a persistant power struggle that has been going on for a long time already.

The trade that I proposed; Bargnani/Calderon and a 10 protec first for Smoove/AJ is a good trade for the Hawks. Smoove is the BP in the trade but we get back the best back up PG in the NBA, a young starting PF/C with a great floor streaching shot and a mid first in next years draft.

What I’m really looking for though is to harness the talent we have and watch them become a team. They are one of the worst “teams” in the league. Too much individuality and ego and not enough teamwork.

Coaching is part of the problem. I think that the line up after the trade would be a dominant team in the East for years.

Calderon and Bargs with what we already have completely balances our team. We have a first and second to either go BPA or to get taller. I think that this change would also go a long way in improving the “team”.

I could be wrong to think about letting Smoove go. He could get bigger, refine his game and turn into one of the best in a couple of years. Or, he could remain about what he is today (which isn’t bad at all).

I think that if we want to improve the balance of the team, Smoove will get us the most without up-setting what balance we already have.

The other most attractive trade pieces that I could envision moving for the right package would be Chil/Shelden.

I think Smoove can bring more and that the team that we would be left with would be very much improved.

Calderon / Law / Lue / Speedy

JJ / Salim / West

Marvin / Chil

Bargs / Shelden / Jones

Horford / Zaza / Lo

All six of those PF/C can swing so we can get a lot of rotations. We are even deeper.

We also have a first and a second to use or deal.

I’m not interested in giving Smoove the home-town benefit. He needs to earn it on the court. He is very good, but far from upper echelon. If you can remove the attitude problem in one big move and improve the balance of the team; I say do it.

If another team wants to give a similar or better offer (LA-Bynum), I say even better.

Put a real coach in place and we will change the losing ways.

By jhan

November 13, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

Ando, did you notice that Woody thinks Horford is a natural PF? Great minds think alike, huh?!

By JerryWest

November 13, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

Flash,

Thanks for you observations. What do you think about the new rookies and Chillz’s shot?

I started a thread at http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=262366&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=#262366

with your insightful comments. Please check it out.

It would be awesome if you register there, and we could get your great blog comments over there in a more organized page. Thanks.

By Astro Joe

November 13, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

curious, so the Head Coach who is responsible for playing time and who has the authority to discipline players is using the media in the town where he was an assistant 4 years ago to admonish a guy on his rookie contract that has helped the team win 69 games in 3 seasons? And I guess the secret military site in Roswell, New Mexico is the home of a secret energy source that could replace our oil dependency but we can’t decode the alien owner’s manual, right?

By Lamar Mundane

November 13, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

If Zeke buys out Steph. Can we bring Starbury back to the A? We don’t have to rush Acie and he could complement Joe well.

By doc

November 13, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

quite a dart there jhan for the ando. wonder how he will try to dodge the association to anything of the hawks management and him being like minded, heh heh

aj, one of the better ones is how we didnt defend or pass the ball. truly a good guy though me thinks, shame he has to be in the realm of the broken atlanta spirt who left him without a paddle.

By Greg

November 13, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

Sekou, would you please get an interview with Joe Johnson? Something is going on with his head and it seems like there might be a story there.

By Ramon

November 13, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

Does anyone realize JSmith is on pace to EASILY win Defensive Player of the Year award?

By Astro Joe

November 13, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

Ramon, please stop looking at stats and start looking at games. Watch the player who Smith actually guards and see how he does. Then watch if a player on the opposing team starts lighting up the Hawks and see what Smith does. When Dirk started to score in bunches on opening night, who took on the job of trying to defend him? 6’9” Smith? No, 6’6” Joe Johnson. Who matched up against KG? The great defender Smith? No, the rookie Horford. When Jamison and Caron went ballistic Sunday afternoon, where was your Defensive Player of the Year? Again, stop looking at blocks per game and start watching the actual game. Smith is not even the best defender on his own team.

By smartguy

November 13, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

AJ, thats blasphemy. What I’ve seen is that Smooth takes the toughest perimeter player, so you’re right that he doesn’t guard the tough interior players. The player that comes to mind is Vince Carter; I think Smooth often takes him, and does a pretty good job. I have also seen Smooth do a good job on Dwight Howard. If you think JJ is a better defender, then we simply haven’t been watching the same team; Joe’s effort on D, especially this year, leaves a lot to be desired. Whatever you say of Josh Smith, I don’t think you can say that he doesn’t give max effort.

By Ramon

November 13, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

Did Smooth not shut down Steve Nash, a bonafide MVP candidate every season? They didn’t put Smooth on Dirk because it would’ve taken him off of the glass, so that was ACTUALLY (CAN’T BELIEVE I’M SAYING THIS)a smart move by the COACH. Even in his rookie year, Smooth PROVED how he can handle Dirk, the reigning MVP of the league.

By Astro Joe

November 13, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

smartguy & Ramon, let’s reconvene after the next 2 games about Smith’s alleged outstanding defensive skills. Ramon, yes, he did a good job with Nash the other day, I forgot about that sequence. But watch him defend and then look at someone like Duncan, Kidd, Kobe or Bowen and then let’s compare notes. Sorry, I think he is an excellent weak-side shot blocker but poor on the ball defender.

By Ramon

November 13, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

LOL, No problem AJ we can see the next few games lol. By the way, remember that the four defenders you mention always ALWAYS get calls their way. So that is a big difference also. Just like Rasheed Wallace is an underrated defender because of the fouls. And remember the PRESENCE of Smooth leaves JJ the opportunity to be a better on ball defender because they opposing player are looking for Smooth.

By Scott

November 13, 2007 7:47 PM | Link to this

Sekou, What would it take to get Marbury in a Hawks uniform?

By Ramon

November 13, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this

A nightmare! lol.. He would kill whatever chemistry they kind of have. lol.. Sad part about it is I love Marbury.

By Astro Joe

November 13, 2007 8:34 PM | Link to this

Ramon, I understand what a shot blocker knows for a perimeter defender. Just watch how often Smith drifts to guard the rim and leaves his own man open. I’ve also seen him allow his man to get to the rim in hopes of blocking his shot. Again, he tends to be more interested in making the highlight play and not the right play.

By jhan

November 13, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this

Marbury, who is off to a poor start on both ends of the court, is coming off a wild summer. He appeared to defend Michael Vick and dogfighting, and was a key witness in the Anucha Browne Sanders sexual harassment trial, when he admitted to having had sex in a truck with a Knicks intern.

Scott, let’s get this guy here asap!!

By ray

November 13, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this

JHan, I noticed that too. To be honest, I’d rather have Ando prowling the sidelines. At least he would either know precisely what he wants to do (and he’d probably have Tonya Harding take out BK…but that’s another story) or he’d listen to guys who do know.

As it is, I’m glad Woody recognizes Horford for what he is: a power forward capable of playing center from time to time.

Flash, with Zaza back, and based on his quoted comments in the article regarding Horford, we may yet get to see more offense flowing through the pivot. I believe we’ve talked about the high-low post game. If you ask me, it is the foundation of solving many of our half-court set problems. With guys like Pachulia and Horford causing problems throughout the post, we’ll have better options, which will free up the perimeter guys. This will be so much better than having the more perimeter oriented guys dribbling around and around the zone, then trying to drive in against a collapsing defense when their shots aren’t falling. By the way, beautiful piece on the jump shot-very nicely done. I wish I could’ve said it as well when I mentioned that Josh’s back-to-the-basket game consisted of his backing up, then trying to figure out where the basket is once he turned around and went up to shoot. Oh well, for every piece of art (yours), I suppose there must be a primitive version of sorts (mine).

Astro Joe, that was absolutely on the money. Not into bashing Smith, but a little perspective is due and you certainly provided that.

I am anxious to see if Woody lets Pachulia and Horford loose against defenses. They can really do some damage. I think some people are still seeing Sheldon when they see Horford. Whole different animal. I have every reason to believe he can score well, he just has to get the ball, and in the right situations. He certainly can rebound and defend.

I hope the talk about JJ and his mood or moodiness is just talk. However (and I KNOW I’ll get flamed for this one) if it’s not…well, he certainly has a right to his opinion and has several valid reasons to be unhappy about some things. However, if the problem (again, if this is more than just idle chatter) lies with him not liking what could be changes to his role…well, nobody is truly untradeable here.

By Clyde

November 13, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

Here is what Woody had to say about Acie Law:

“In exhibition season, I played him a lot down the stretch just to get his nose wet, but exhibition season and regular season are totally different,” Woodson said. “When I’m in close games, my comfort zone is generally to play the veteran guys that have been in a lot of games. I think he understands that right now.”

This sounds like the words of a coach that needs to be fired.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By jhan

November 13, 2007 9:19 PM | Link to this

Clyde I have to agree. It’s great to play vet’s at the end of games who are proven winners. Our vet’s have shown time & time again they know how to LOSE at the end of games.

Play your young studs & lose with some upside in mind. Why keep playing Lue when he will be gone very soon.

Flash that is some outstanding knowledge coming off your keyboard. I’m not sure if what you said or how you said it impresses me more!

By mykhalc

November 13, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this

makes NO F’n sense not to be playin’ ACIE at the end of games!!! come on, LUE or AJ. what have they shown????

sometimes i think the vets and WOODSON just want the rooks to think it’s freakin’ brain surgery just because they can. make ‘em think as much as they can while on the court!!!! geeeessshhh!!! how ‘bout hand him the ball and let him play ball!!!!

By mykhalc

November 13, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

but come to think of it, it MIGHT BE brain surgery for WOODSON!!???!!! there is a lot to a playbook of ONE FREAKIN’ PLAY and the PG has to learn to pound pound pound…pound pound pound…pound pound pound.yep gonna take ACIE well into the season to get that one down!!! maybe he’ll be ready for LUE’s summer camp at season’ end!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By cp

November 13, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

Firing Woody would be cool but who would be our next coach? Well I guess anybody would be an upgrade at this point. I like JJ but as mentioned earlier, nobody on this team is untradable. We are not winning with JJ so if a great deal comes along pull the trigger. We have BK as a gm so it probably wont happen and if it did I would hate to see what we would get in return. I had thought about a trade the other day but I doubt the salaries match so I kinda just gave up on it… I think people would jump all over me about it anyway..But im going to throw it out anyway.. Hawks send out JJ, Sheldon, Lo… Lakers send out Kobe, Bynum, Farmer.. Bulls send out Gordon, Tyrus Thomas and maybe Noah.. Hawks get Bynum and Farmer… Bulls get Kobe and Sheldon..Lakers get JJ, Gordon, and Thomas (if they dont include Noah). In my opinion everyone comes out good. Hawks can move Horford to the pf,Smooth to the sf and Marvin to the sg. I think he can play some sg. He would have to step it up defensively which I think he has this year. Bulls get Kobe and Sheldon. Sheldon seems like the type of player Skiles likes. Lakers get JJ to replace Kobe’s scoring. Gordon and Lo as a expiring contract. Farmer can be the starting pg or backup it really doesnt matter. We get younger but I think it balances out the roster some and allows Horford to play that pg position and gets us a young stud at the Center position. BUt like i said i know the salaries wont match but it was just an idea I came up with the other day.. Feel free to disect it and tell me what you think . I know most wont like it and stomp on it but its all good lol.

By Clyde=moron

November 13, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

Hey Clyde the Idiot,

Please, please, PLEASE name me one NBA coach who doesn’t have a preference for playing veterans over rookies, particularly in close-and-late situations?

Adelman benched Jason Williams late in games back when Williams was a hot-shot rook. Iavaroni hasn’t played Conley for 1 minute in the 4th quarter yet.

Get real, a$$.

By Ramon

November 13, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

I’ve supported Woodson since he was hired. However, I think if at the end of November, the team isn’t playing .500 ball with no improvement in the half court offense it will be time to show him the door. If BK does this, I can actually see him having a chance to save HIS job.

The problem is though if he is let go, there is no free agent coach who would be able to make a big difference. Actually, the best replacement may very well be ON the staff now.

By notsosmartguy

November 13, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Yo smartguy,

Said it a couple threads ago, but I guess you missed the memo:

We get it. You hate Woodson and you cream yourself every time you think of Smoove. You know how to say anything else?

By reese

November 13, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this

TB, the reason I say that your trade is similiar to one that BK would make is because you are giving up our best and getting less in return. The goal of the trade is to acquire pieces that we need that would maximize our return or at least be comparable to what we are giving up.

Steven Hunter makes 3.2 mil and Bargani makes 4.8 mil and Toronto is happy with him.

Therefore, to acquire Steven Hunter, we would be giving up someone like Shelden Williams (3.1 mil), Lorenzen Wright (3.2 mil) or Anthony Johnson (2.8 mil).

Bargani would require someone like Marvin Williams at 4.4 mil. Plus, Bargani is not a shot blocker and has worse stats than Marvin who in turn has worse stats than Josh Smith. Whereas, Steven Hunter is a shot blocker and has comparable stats to shelden, wright or AJ.

Steven Hunter places a true seven footer that can block shots in practice and therefore would give a better representation of what our players will see in games.

Jose Calderon is a career backup. BK has gone the career backup route (lue, speedy, AJ) and we still need a starting point guard. Steve Francis has excelled as a starter and has a starter’s mentallity. Plus, Houston has 4 point guards.

Steve Francis signed a 2 year 6 mil contract. Therefore, his salary again compares to the players mentioned above.

Both Francis and Hunter are on teams with log jams at the position they play. Hunter provides Interior Defense to play alongside, Smith and Al Horford. That should stop players from easily driving through the lane. Woodson would also have the capability to play Zaza and Hunter together. Zaza for scoring and Hunter for defense.

Steve Francis provides a player who plays at a pace similiar to Josh Smith. He knows how to push the pace and provides height to allow Salim and him to be on the floor together. He gives AC law the opportunity to learn the game without the pressure of being the starter. He provides stability on the floor to allow JJ to get more rest.

Now, if Marvin, Childress or Salim doesn’t provide the outside shooting needed to stretch the defense, we can use them in a trade to acquire a shooter.

This is what I call balancing out a team, maximizing our return and providing JJ the veterans he wants. In other words, anti BK strategy.

By reese

November 13, 2007 10:47 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, there are too many good offensive players in the NBA to stop them on a nightly basis by playing 1 on 1 defense. That is why Josh Smith is a benefit to have on this team. You don’t continually give away players who block 3 shots per game. He is able to provide help defense that has offensive players looking to see where he is at on the floor. Ask Shawn Marion if you don’t believe me.

Did he stop Dirk Nowitski 1 on 1. No. But neither did anyone else on the team and Dirk made some very difficult shots in the lane. He utilized his height and practice gained by playing against Diop and Dampier in practice.

The problem when Josh plays an elite offensive player is that know one comes to help Josh. Marvin and Sheldon are too slow, too short and don’t have the leaping ability like Josh.

Also, I can’t understand why people say that Woodson is a great defensive strategist. He doesn’t place his players in defensive situations to succeed unless Josh Smith is able to come and provide help defense. Which is the same strategy he used with Ben Wallace in detroit.

Whereas, teams who play the hawks, play a man on the Hawks player in the corner or on the wing. Then, they rotate a guard down to the lane. So, if a hawks player on the wing or corner drives by their man, they will run into a double team in the lane. Therefore, they will have to kick the ball out to an open shooter. That open shooter happens to be Josh Smith a lot of the times or the other shooters don’t take the shot or don’t make the shot.

There is no way that Marvin Williams should have been 1 on 1 coverage on Billups. There should have been someone else covering the lane and forcing billups to kick the ball out to a shooter.

By Clyde

November 13, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

Hey Clyde=moron here is the problem with playing our veterans instead of our rookies in the fourth quarter: THEY SUCK.

Woody is 71-181 using this system. In the fourth quarter we need players in the game that can get the job done. And sometimes that means going with the player that has had the hot hand during the game. Tyron Lue hasn’t won a game for us since he hit that runner against the Cavs last year. Lets try something new.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By reese

November 13, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

CP, again another BK trade suggestion. If your going to trade JJ then get Kobe. Why not trade JJ and Marvin for Kobe. You can still move Josh to the 3, you play kobe at the 2, then you still make the trades that I mentioned to acquire steve francis and Hunter. Now, you have Francis, Smith and Kobe who all play the game at a high intensity. You have Hunter to block shots and horford and zaza to provide low post scoring.

Again, we want to maximize our return.

By Clyde=moron

November 13, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

So we should bench the only guy that’s hit a game-winning shot before in favor of our rookie PG who has not proven that he can play back-to-back games without a 4-1 turnover-to-assist ratio? Sounds brilliant. NOT.

Once Acie proves he can play the point in the first, second, and third quarters, it’s time to consider playing him in the 4th. Until then, I say we stick with the guy who we know can hit clutch shots in the NBA.

By cp

November 14, 2007 12:27 AM | Link to this

Reese, Kobe would not allow the Lakers to move him to Atlanta. He would not drop his no trade clause to come here. He wants to go to Chicago according to reports

By mykhalc

November 14, 2007 2:39 AM | Link to this

JOE, tell me if you think i’m off-base here. since you and i talked about the whole ‘NIQUE and THEUS thing, i think i’m smellin’ the same kinda sh$t with the vet hierarchy showin’ themselves in relationship to the PG playin’ time. and i realize we are ONLY 6 games into the season but ACIE’s last game, he produced 5 assists in 13 mins. so he’s startin’ to do what everyone was complainin’ about early, no assists. NOW he’s doin’ that and he needs to be on the bench observin’, learnin’ the NBA game???!! if he’s gonna learn it then he better start followin’ KIDD or NASH around this season. ‘cause the gods know he ain’t gonna get it from our vets!!!

now what i THINK i’m seein’/readin’ between the lines is ‘SOME’ might not want ACIE to step up and ‘LEAD’ the team!!!???!!! ‘SOME’ might feel the ball ‘might’ not come their way often enough!!???!!!

help me out JOE ‘cause i ain’t gettin’ it!!!!

By Malone

November 14, 2007 2:58 AM | Link to this

What about JJ and Smoove for Kobe and Bynum (and throw in contracts to even out…)

our starting five (with backups):

1- Law4 / AJ / Lue 2- Kobe / Salim 3- Marvin / Chills 4- Horford / Shelden 5- Bynum / Zaza

By doc

November 14, 2007 7:58 AM | Link to this

well cant say i didnt warn you, i said it is more important who finishes than who starts. it shows what the coach thinks of the team as a whole. sooo acie becomes nothing more than the second coming of royal ivey. werent we told AGAIN that these guys were battle tested vets. if that was going to be the approach i would have and said earlier BEFORE the draft that this would happen and we should get crit who played as good a defense, was a bigger stud, could dish and still score with a much more traditional shot and had won games in the waning minutes against good teams in his freshman season which acie couldnt do, less talent. yes, it is reasonable to have thought this way knowing that he would ride the pines deferring to woody’s ways of prefering a vet but have significant upside over acie.

in 20 games we will have seen enough to know which way this team is going. three good games, three awful games thus far.

By Astro Joe

November 14, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

mykhalc, JJ may have some resentment toward Law (and maybe even Horford) if he was in fact “promised” that we would acquire veteran help predraft. Since chances are very high that any trade would have centered around 1 or both of those draft picks.

I also recall when JT was trying to establish himself as a young leader on this club. We acquired Glenn Robinson to go with Theo and SAR. Bottom line, JT was told by his teammates that he was too young to lead that group of grizzled vets and that team fell on it’s face in a major, major way. So I can see something like that happening here, Law, although older than Smith & Marvin, may not be getting the respect from those guys. If Woody would commit 100% to Law (by playing him 32+ minutes and in closing situations), then maybe the team would be forced to accept him as their floor general. But since this is Woody’s last season to earn a contract extension (is there any chance he would be hired for another head coach gig?), then you can see why he is less interested in building a team for his successor and would rather try to save his job with Lue.

DYSFUNCTIONAL remains the best single word to describe this franchise… from ownership down to Harry the Hawk.

By terrell barron

November 14, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

If they lose tonight against Charlotte, Woody should be fired.

By Melvin

November 14, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Reese, I’m with you. I think Steve Francis & Steven Hunter would help this team tremendously. Franchise would be a good compliment to JJ in the back court. With his ability to score, breakdown defenses off the dribble and distribute would take some of the pressure off JJ. I’m sure this guy could be the vocal leader this team so desperately needs. I can see him now, throwing alleys to JSmoove, Marvin and JChill. And Hunter would be improvement on defense.

By mykhalc

November 14, 2007 11:29 AM | Link to this

JOE, thanks man. the JT situation even says it clearer too.

well, i’ll say this. with WOODSON still bein’ WOODSON, JJ with an attitude up his butt (his game too), LUE and/or AJ bein’ given a ‘vets’ pass, ZAZA probably gettin’ ready to get that same ‘vets’ pass, then all i’ll need is the return of SPEEDY and LW to send me completely over the edge to pull for a team like GS or BOS. and tho i HATE BOS, i do dig KG and RAY as players and people, and would love to see ‘em get a ring. not crazy about AH or SJ but i’d pull for NELLIE and the young cats, especially BIEDRIENS.

yep, any hope i had for the HAWKS improvin’ this year is quickly bein’ replaced by a stench of stupidity!!! (and i know it’s not like the stupidity just showed up!! i get it, i get it)

By terrell barron

November 14, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

If we lose to Charlotte tonight, Woody should be fired, immediately after the game.

By Astro Joe

November 14, 2007 12:02 PM | Link to this

Check out this positive article on Marvin Williams from cnnsi.com.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/ian_thomsen/11/13/marvin.williams/index.html

By Clyde

November 14, 2007 12:31 PM | Link to this

Clyde=moron all I gotta say is 71-181. With a record like that you need to make changes in your coaching style.

And why ain’t anyone getting on Joe Johnson. Yall always getting on Josh Smith about shooting too many jump shots but Joe is shooting 25.6% from 3 this year. Why not tell him to take ball to the basket more?

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Big G Money

November 14, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Clyde, it seems like the blog has taken on the personality of Woody. There are certain players who get a free pass regardless, and there are others who are constantly in the dog house or over-scrutinized.

Maybe each player should have a day of the week so that we can all scrutinze his spinal alignment, shoe size and snack habits. Makes sense to me.

By The Flash

November 14, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

I still think that the Hawks could be a player in a Kobe deal, end up with Bynam from LA and one or more from Chicago. JJ would go to LA.

I think that the Hawks, who might have to give up an additional player, could end up with Bynam, Deng, and the UConn guard. Might have to give up JS. Might even be able to nab Farmar too.

This really ain’t my thing, trades and all. But, I see JJ as being a real deal maker in this, if someone could put together a very special package to make it worthwhile for the Hawks.

By Adam

November 14, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

I’ll get on Joe Johnson. He is clearly a #2 guy pouting because he wants to be a #1 guy, and playing no better than a #3 guy. The leadership issues on this young team run deep. Also, his comments about being p** nobody brought in veteran leadership border on ridiculous, as this man used to play with Steve Nash. Whatever. You reap what you sew JJ.

Anyway, I’m with Clyde. Woody needs to be playing the kids. Ty Lue is now officially in the Keith Lockhart role for this team - he must have pictures. Not only should he not be playing in crunch time, he probably shouldn’t be playing at all. This is not a championship caliber-team; they need to be letting the kids play. It’s not rocket science.

By Big G Money

November 14, 2007 2:01 PM | Link to this

If Woody were smart, he’d manage the egos a bit better. It is amazing to watch how the Celtics share the ball, the glory and share in the wins. I have NEVER been a Celtic fan, but their style of play with Big KG doing his thing make them a pleasure to watch.

But I guess we’d have to have different plays that work for different players so that they could get the ball where they’re most comfortable scoring. Hmm. That would take some coaching skills to go along with the diplomacy. Yikes.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 14, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

JJ needs to quit sulking….Atlanta forked over 70 million to get this guy,and he’s cryn about veteran leadership/being a #1 option. News flash you are the veteran leadership so earn your pay check and produce. The way Marvin is playn now-in a year or so jj could become expendable anyway BK- lets see if Memphis would trade Gasol/Lowry- Navarro for JJ /Sheldon/Tlue

Come on man 14 dam 3 pointers, jj doesnt look like jj from last year-right now, he is hurting more than helping. o yeah for those of you who are urging woodson to play solomon more….FORGET ABOUT IT….. Solomon and West just came into my work about 2 hours ago… That man is frail as hell- weight program……puleez… im 6’4 210 and i could bang with that dude in the paint. He is gonna get killed against Curry, Howard,and maybe even Darko. This isnt funny anymore,Im still on the wagon -hawks fan 4 life

By roan st

November 14, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

Jerry Sloan is looking for ways to get Paul Millsap on the floor more often, which is a challenge considering he shares a frontcourt with former All-Stars Carlos Boozer, Andrei Kirilenko and Mehmet Okur. Still, the burly second-year forward continues to produce whenever he’s called upon, so it’s getting to the point where he’s going to command more playing time at someone’s expense.

The above is a review of the jazz season thus far from cbs sportsline.com. When I think about paul milsap versus shelden williams I want to throw up. Milsap is a second rounder and much better player than shelden who was the fifth overall selection. Billy knight has shown that in some cases he can collect some decent individual talent but a complete failure at putting together a cohesive unit. It is time for the hawks management to clean house or this continued losing will only be dertimental to their bottom line.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY NOW!

By I.MUS WRITE

November 14, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

I must have temporarily lost my mind.There is’nt going to be a trade,NO Kobe,NO Francis NO none of that.Think back…. we have been waiting on a trade for the past 3 seasons and the best we got was “Craig i refuse to call u speedy Claxton” and Ho Wright. If there is a trade out there for real lets hear about it. There are too many dreamers on this board, if Kobe did want to come to ATL-do u think our owners are going to okay that…..ahhhhhm hell to the no. Lets face it a new coach and a different offensive philosophy is all thats needed. On paper we have more talent than maybe 20 other teams - so……Im with terrell brannon on this one if the bobcats come in our house and blow us out -its fire woody tonight -i dont mean tomorrow, i mean tonight, hold the press confrence right before the 11pm sports center.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 14, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

Roan St.you must have been reading my mind, Millsap looks really good regardless of where he was picked- I see him averaging 20 and 10 once he gets consistent minutes. Im gonna do you one better, how about Brandon Roy? Everytime this guy comes off a curl and releases that sweet jumper my stomach turns. Who was the basketball mind that thought Sheldon would be a better pro than Roy…. puleeez.

Sheldon-career back up pf Roy-all star 2 guard

Portland is quickly becoming one of my favorite teams even without Oden

By HB Ando

November 14, 2007 4:16 PM | Link to this

I love it when Bill Simmons, or someone like him, summarizes years of points I’ve, and folks of like mind, have made here, for the last 3 years:

“My dad took my stepmother to last week’s Celtics-Hawks game; she thought the Hawks were an expansion team because she didn’t remember seeing them before. That’s when Dad realized he’d either given away or sold the Atlanta tickets for something like 15 straight years. So at the very least, the Hawks have extricated themselves from the Skip Us Under All Circumstances Zone, so let’s give them four scattered thoughts:

1. At this point, they’re loaded enough from drafting in the top-five for 13 straight years that three friends e-mailed me during Friday’s game just to say, “Thank God they didn’t take Chris Paul; that team would be freaking scary.” Every visiting announcer should be required by law to make this statement during a 2008 Hawks game.

2. Josh Smith has evolved into a southpaw version of Andrei Kirilenko — he fills up stat sheets, he’s exciting to watch in person, he lives off those weakside blocks, he’s moody and hard to read, and it’s unclear whether his team would be better off keeping him or trading him. The only difference is Smith scores more than Kirilenko, which is strange because he’s one of those guys who only scores on dunks and tip-ins. Other than that, they’re the same guy. And, yes, I’m aware I just broke the unwritten rule that you’re not allowed to compare white guys and black guys.

3. Al Horford is really good. (Not a huge shocker to anyone who watched college hoops last year, but still, it’s always a relief to know a ballyhooed prospect is definitely for real.) If you remember, the Hawks would have lost that pick to Phoenix if they hadn’t climbed into the top three May 22. As far as all-or-nothing scenarios go, that doesn’t come close to Memphis missing LeBron by one pick and getting nothing instead — actually, nothing in sports history compares to that moment — but it’s definitely on the second level.

4. So Joe Johnson leaves Phoenix to sign with Atlanta for $70 million so he could be The Guy. Two years later, he complains that it might be time for him to leave unless they can find him some veteran help. Um, Joe? YOU LEFT STEVE NASH!!!!!!! YOU CHOSE TO LEAVE A PLAYOFF CONTENDER!!!! NOW YOU WANT VETERAN HELP????

Reason No. 12,353 why I love the NBA: The previous paragraph.”

By Ryder

November 14, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

I read that article too Ando, and I agree with everything that was said by Simmons. JJ needs to keep his trap shut about getting veteran help and just play like the All-Star that he is. I think he should’ve been calling for a veteran coach instead.

“he’s moody and hard to read, and it’s unclear whether his team would be better off keeping him or trading him.” Better words couldn’t be spoken about Josh Smith. He’s such an enigma that the Hawks will be on pins and needles this year trying to figure out if he’s worth the money.

I think tonight will be a good gauge of where this team truly lies. They’re facing an inferior opponent at home and should be ready to go after two embarrassing losses. The mark of a good team is how they can bounce back from an obstacle. It’s too early to jump to conclusions with Woodson but it does need to be stated that he has to make sure there is a successful gameplan installed.

By HB Ando

November 14, 2007 5:33 PM | Link to this

Well, the good thing about those Smith comments is that if enough people point it out to Billy Knight, he might take his head out of his a* long enough to realize that the emergence of Marvin Williams gives the team much-needed leverage, when summer comes and Smith demands a zillion dollars for shooting 39% from the field this season.

As I mentioned a couple of days ago, Williams play gives them options that Smith and his agent were gambling against when they were talking extension this past summer. And make no mistake, there will be some teams that will make us a great offer for Smith.

He’s an amazing talent, but he may be more valuable to the organization, as a bargaining chip than as antagonizing and inconsistent prima donna.

This team wants to put on a show, they can re-sign Smith, and build around his highlights. If they want to win, he’s the one bargaining chip they have that could get them the big they need. And Marvin is showing that he’s got the 3 covered.

Until Smith shows that he can consistently shoot in the ballpark of 50%, from the floor (how hard can that be when a half of your points come from dunks, lay ups and put-backs?!), I’m predicting a “sell” this coming summer. Of course the reality that the organization will actually be “selling” to not have to pay a young talent shouldn’t obfuscate the fact that it’s in the teams’ best interests. A sign-and-trade of Smith, with Speedy’s contract as a throw-in, would be the kind of clever move someone smart would pull off. We need a replacement lottery pick and a center (though the two are not mutually exclusive).

‘Course we have Billy, so you know that’s unlikely.

Jhan, the coincidence that Woody might have ONE correct, similar thought, to me, is not too troubling. If you had made a similar point about me and Billy, we’d have had to duke it out before we share pizza and beer at the next game (or just a beer at the spot).

By ........

November 14, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

Ando you are an idiot, and the HAWKS better be prepared for there to be 10 people in the stands. If they let Smoove go. Only 6 games have been played. So when Marvin has some bad games and people rag on him. I don’t want anyone to get mad.

By The Flash

November 14, 2007 7:15 PM | Link to this

JJ to LA; Bynum to Atlanta; Kobe to Chicago; Thomas or Noah to LA; Deng to Atlanta; JS to Chicago; the UConn guard or Heinrich to Atlanta. Ando could make this work in his sleep with whatever other moves are necessary and/or desireable.

I agree with Ando 100 percent about MW. He is the three that you want. With Deng, I think that you could even go big and play MW at the two.

Deng, Horford, and Marvin to cover the forward spots; Bynum and Z the center; Chill available as a 3; Horford as a 5 if small could work. That there is a formidable front line.

I think that JJ can smell the roses and might have started to push. If so, it might well be time to get daring. As my old ball coach used to say, “He who hesitates is lost.”

By HB Ando

November 14, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this

See, here, in an anonymous response, you see one of the primary challenges that ownership will face, when they decide what to do with Smith next summer. But the truth is, statistically, that folks show up for playoff teams, not solo talents on losing teams.

Marvin and Josh bring completely different skills to the table. Again, this isn’t a fantasy team; it should be a roster built to balance out the individual strengths and weaknesses of it’s members.

I’m not saying the Hawks MUST trade Smith. I’m saying they have options, and pieces, to build the team in a couple of different ways, from here going forward.

For those who suggest that trading Josh Smith is blasphemous, one has only to look at KG, AI, Shaq, and Ray Allen (not to mention many others) to acknowledge that the NBA is a business. And very few people spend their full careers with one team. I’m hard-pressed to believe that Josh Smith is any more special than the names I’ve just offered up.

By LEA

November 14, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

Both Acie and Smoove hurt tonight, Smoove with the Quad strain Acie with the Ankle sprain. Hopefully they will both be fine. We are going to need them both

By Matt

November 14, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

GREAT WIN, HAWKS! I’m withholding judgment until 20 games are in the tank, but we held our lead tonight despite losing both Smoove and Acie to injuries. When they went down, J-Chill stepped up big and JJ was his brilliant self as always.

We shot .597 from the field tonight. I don’t care who you’re playing against - that’s sick, fellas. It’s not easy to shoot 60% from the floor even if no one’s guarding you.

One big question for someone upstairs - WHERE’S AJ THESE DAYS? If Acie is hurt, we need him back…

In any case, let’s hope Smoove and Acie are ok and will be back with us soon.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!

By HB Ando

November 14, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

That’s what they have to do. Hold home court. The play where Acie got hurt wasn’t dirty, just aggressive and pointless. But I can see why the big man went up to stop the possible 3-point play.

Pretty ugly hoops. And surprised how much Wallace was just going one-on-one. Not sure how much control Vincent has of that team.

Nice to see Joe show up, and Marvin’s jumper looks like it’s here to stay.

By ray

November 14, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this

Pachulia looks pretty good. I was worried he might be rusty and have problems keeping up to speed. I’m happy to see it.

Doc, I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about. I MUST be misunderstanding you. You saying that we should’ve gotten Crittenton instead of Law? For what reason? First, it was Law who had a 4 year college career and made a name for himself as a clutch shooter. Crittenton played one season and showed he has talent and potential. What the hell is one season (unless you’re a guy like Kevin Durant)? Second, that’s just silly and I’ll tell you why. If Woody doesn’t want to have a “battle tested” Law in there at the end of games, what do you suppose he would’ve done with Crittenton. Hell, I don’t even know if Critt would’ve seen any significant burn outside of the summer league! In fact, he’s not even getting 7 minutes a game with the Lakers. Perhaps you forgot who is coaching this team. Law is good, and he’s a mature player despite the fact that he’s a rookie.

Critt has plenty of talent, but he hasn’t been in the game nearly long enough to get Woody’s attention, much less a few minutes. You want to call it the second coming of Royal Ivey, then go ahead. You’d be more accurate had we drafted Critt. Sorry, but this ain’t Walgreens, no perfect world here.

As for Law, it’s only been 6-7 games of his NBA career. Tonight’s game against Charlotte was more proof of what Law can do. He got us off to a smokin’ hot start. And when he went out, things began deteriorating immediately. Fortunately, the calm veteran JJ showed up and helped keep things going right. Glad he did instead of complaining about vets. Played like an all-star tonight.

Also, I noticed we had no problems going hard to the basket. Bravo.

Josh Smith was rejecting people like they had bad credit…damn..

I LOVE Horford. Double double freakin’ monster, even outshined the veteran Okafor. That’s more than enough to excuse the handful of token “traveling” calls he seems to get each game. Perhaps he saw the movie “happy feet” and took it to heart, I don’t know. But I LOVE the guy. Rebounding machine that blocks shots, runs on the break like a freakin’ antelope and bodies up and the strong guys. Sorry, but for the needs of this team, I take him over another tall shooter. Besides, we have one who seems to be truly blossoming…

Marvin Williams. He definitely is on, and I hope he does it all year.

Nice win, and one we’ve been needing, especially against the ‘Cats.

To the guy who keeps calling Clyde a moron, the village called and they DON’T want you back, they found a way better idiot. Here’s a clue: Byron Scott (coach) and Chris Paul, ‘05-‘06 season. 78 games played, 78 games started, 36 minutes per game. Look it up, then look up Jerry Sloan and Deron Williams. Gee, I wonder how much they played in tight situations or at the end their rookie years (particularly Paul). Moral of the story? First, if you take the best guy you have at any particular position and keep yanking him out of the game when it matters the most, he’ll never learn to handle the pressure. Never. Second, do your homework before stepping to the plate at this blog or get bit@h-slapped every time.

By ray

November 14, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

Ando, agreed. Completely. Again.

By kwooden1

November 14, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

HAWKS WIN! HAWKS WIN! Big win for the guys, against a team that they have a lot of trouble with. I hate to see Smith and Law hurt, we definitely need those guys back and full strength as soon as possible. I agree with Matt, where’s AJ??, they will need him without Law around. JJ definitely came to play tonight and he had a lot of help from Chills. I think the game wouldn’t have been as close if JS was around in the 2nd half, he had 5 blocks in the first half! The energy was great and hats off again to the home crowd. I will give Woodson credit for getting the team ready to play and making good substitutions like bring in Salim for some extra offense.

GET HEALTH, BRING THE ENERGY!!

GO HAWKS!!

By THE Hawks Fan

November 14, 2007 9:52 PM | Link to this

Ryan Hollins is a dueshe bag. He is still mad about losing the title game 2 years ago. If Acie is hurt bad, he is Marked man. No call for that dumb azz play AFTER the whistle. We still gonna beat up the Sonics Friday. They just blew a 20 point lead to the Heat. We need The HighLight Factory rockin Friday night to get back to .500. Coach Woodson looked real calm tonight. I like that. Everybody calling for his head and the man still smiles. Im pulling for you coach, even if Im the only 1 in town doing so. Goooo Hawkss!!!!!

By Ken Strickland

November 14, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

Earlier I mentioned how ALaw needs to be more aggressive and take charge at the beginning of the gm. He started out doing just that and his teammates responded. When Law attacks the lane it forces DEF’s to collapse and leaves a lot of open shots and openings in the lane. Apparently Woodson felt the sams way after the lackluster effort against Washington.

Zaza had a good gm in the beginning, but he ended up with too many turnovers. He needs to shoot his jump shot and leave the penetrating to his teammates. We finally got a chance to see the results of JSmith’s time with Hakeem. He made some nice inside moves and actually used his off hand. I certainly hope the injuries to Josh and Acie are not serious. GOOD WIN HAWKS!!!!!!!!!

By clyde=moron

November 14, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

Yo ray,

You’re drawing up a comparison to CP3???? CP3 was an elite prospect at PG who was drafted to come in and be a franchise player. That description does NOT apply to Acie on either count. Acie will be good, but unlike CP3, no one considers him an elite talent…yet.

It’s been 6 games. After 6 games in ‘05, you know what CP’s stats were? Well let’s see:

CP3 after 6 games 15.5ppg 5.7apg 2.7tpg (turnovers) 1.8spg 35.0mpg

Acie after 6 games 6.5ppg 2.3apg 2.2tpg 0.8spg 21.1mpg

If you stretch those stats out to 48 minutes, CP3 kicks the crap out of Acie in every category. There’s no comparison.

So yeah, I’ll grant that if it were CP3 (or Magic Johnson or Isaiah Thomas) as our rookie PG, it would be different. But it’s not. It’s Acie Law, who no one expects to be an elite PG. He has something to prove. He has to earn it.

And you accuse me of not doing MY homework? STFU!!!

By HB Ando

November 14, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

Ray, left you a voice mail, with my mobile number on it.

Hit me back some time.

By A Thinking Fan

November 14, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

Ray & Clyde=moron and the rest of us You can’t argue player comparison on this blog without taking into consideration Hawks management and coaching; and the impact it has on all of these Hawks’ players!

By doc

November 14, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

ray, it was a bit tongue in cheek and laden with sarcasm but with some reality thrown in and said as a reflection on if we arent going to use acie now then why did we draft him if he was going to do the time on the bench like most rookies. remember law was supposed to be battle tested like shels was last year. just asking the hawks to be accountable for their picks and the whys of those picks. many would agree stuckey and crit just might have more upside but we got acie because he was ready to lead and go from being a shoot first point into a pas first guy.

remember? the point is play the guy we were counting on and were told was the real deal, i think your argument was just that. and ray, just didnt quite get the last paragraph of your 9:40 post, couldnt follow the line of thought, maybe it is late.

very glad to see we held court tonight and beat a nemesis from last year. as said earlier today it takes twenty to know where the team is headed, got to get a win against the sonics then maybe one on the road soon before the spurs come to town. thanks to jhan, i’ll be front and center doing my job of keeping the refs honest as they can hear me from my seat.

By MJ3

November 15, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

ATF - that’s fair enough, but you do have to acknowledge that Acie has MUCH more to prove than CP3 did in order to establish himself as a rookie. There’s a reason CP3 was taken high in the lottery and Acie was taken pretty low in the lottery.

By Clyde

November 15, 2007 1:11 AM | Link to this

Good win tonight. I like Josh Smith’s 5 blocks in 19 minutes. I wish he had a tag team partner to help him out underneath.

Hey we need to call Joe out more. He came out and had a good game. I just want to see him go to the basket more. And guess what. Joe had our first double digit assist game tonight. Good job.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By A-ville Ranger

November 15, 2007 1:47 AM | Link to this

The Hawks have won every game they’ve shot a higher percentage than their opponents this season and lostevery time they’ve been out shot.Tonight there were 13 games the team’s shooting the higher percentage won 12,12-1….the last night I looked when we lost it was 7-0 for the better shooting team.Last loss, Johnson was 2 of 11 on 3s,tonight he took 3 from beyond the circle.Hopefully these guys will wise up and get it.Last year the Spurs led the league in shooting….how’d that work out for them ??

By HB Ando

November 15, 2007 2:08 AM | Link to this

A-ville, based on the narrow parameters of your assessment, does that point to directing more touches to Marvin, and less Josh, since there’s about a 20% difference in their respective FG%?

Just curious if that’s a fair extrapolation…..

By curious

November 15, 2007 3:08 AM | Link to this

Ando Who made you judge & jury for everyone comments? You blog all the time as if you’re so much smarter than anyone else. Your JS obsession is sad. Also, you don’t work for the Hawks. You just write about them all day. Chill out, other people are entitled to their opinion. Even if you don’t agree with it.

By MJ3

November 15, 2007 3:40 AM | Link to this

Clyde,

That was JJ’s second game this season with 10 assists, not his first.

By doc

November 15, 2007 6:57 AM | Link to this

curious, i am curious. are you the pot calling the kettle black when it kettleisnt and only the pot is? isnt it a bit hypocritical to call someone judgmental when they arent acting that way and really the only one judgmental is you? dude, this is a blog where we dialogue, criticize and have dialogue which includes asking questions of others. yes it is very opinionated and many like ando, myself and obviously you have opinions. now what is wrong with that? are you the only one to be able to express them and in so doing personally criticize someone else for doing just what this blog is supposed to allow and accomplish. so have your opinion but dont in the same breath criticize others, just plain hypocritical and we ALL see right through it. so do as you say and chill out man this is only a blog and a rather friendly one at that. you are quite welcome to your opinions, even to criticize others in what they say or how they say it if you want to be the blog police, just know what you are doing. you are also welcome to say something about the hawks if you think you are smart enough. and just who has the obsession?

yeah clyde, jj when he wasnt scoring well put up 10 dimes against the suns i think it was when the team really played cooperative team ball. at some point this team has to develop the roles and determine who is going to be the distributor, the two guard or the point. it can be done both ways, kobe does it, dwayne does it for starters but is that the designed offense, is it the best one for all games, for the end of the games, for the season and into the future? probably not; until we get a capable point in both jj and woody’s mind then that is probably the way it is going to happen.

By doc

November 15, 2007 8:15 AM | Link to this

interesting to note heading to the ten game mark only three teams over .500 in the east with 9 teams over .500 in the west. got to wait until there is head to head match ups in the divisions and natural rivalries by conference to predict how the season will play out. the west seems to be beating up on the east again.

oddly, we still dont match up well against the east thus far with two huge wins against west studs. kinda remember this pattern last year. now when west coast style teams play well against east coast style teams and an east coast team plays well against west coast teams then doesnt it begin to suggest how that certain east coast team should play or at lest emphasize its approach when playing teams in its own east coast division to better the outcome?

By hawks-4-life

November 15, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this

FOR ALL THE CONSTANT SCRUTINY THE HAWKS BEEN UNDER IN THIS EARLY SEASON, THE HAWKS CAN POSSIBLY WIN 5 OF THEIR NEXT 6 GAMES, INJURIES PENDING. ALL THOSE CALLING FOR WOODSON’S HEAD ALREADY, TELL ME WHY. WHY, REALLY THE SEASON IS SO YOUNG AND WE’RE ONE GAME UNDER .500. JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE’S FANTASY ABOUT THE TEAM DOESNT ALWAYS COME TO REALITY MEANS WE SHOULD MAKE A CHANGE. IM SURE AFTER FOLLOWING THE PROGRESSION SO FAR THIS WILL BE THE SEASON WE’VE BEEN WAITING FOR. MARVIN KEEP DOING YOUR THING (SO FAR BEEN MR CONSISTENT), MAKING BK LOOK GOOD. JJ WAY TO STEP IT UP(THATS HOW A LEADER SHOULD BE), CHILL (MR 6TH MAN) AND TO ME MR UNAPPRECIATED, AL (BEAST)NUFF SAID…JS-TO ME HE IS THE KEY TO THE SEASON TO ME BECAUSE AS NOTED WE NEED BASICALLY A 3-HEADED MONSTER TYPE TEAM ( WE HAVE JJ AND MW, WILL JS STEP UP AND PLAY THE WAY WE ENVISIONED)….LAW-TOUGHEST POSITION TO TRANSITION TO IN NBA (WILL BE OK…ZAZA WELCOME BACK…..LUE-YOU’RE A VET (PLAY LIKE ONE)….AJ (WHERE ARE YOU)….SS-INSTANT OFFENSE NO DEFENSE BUT ILLL TAKE IT….SW-MR INVISIBLE….

By smartguy

November 15, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

Good statement, Doc, regarding this blog. I think this is a great blog, because we all express our opinions, and rarely does anyone get personal and nasty. Do I get my feelings hurt when someone blasts me? Not really, but nor does it make this blog more fun or welcoming.

As far as hoops, I watched most of the first half, and was very impressed. Law was excellent getting the ball up court, without forcing it too much. Smooth was all over the defensive end; regardless of stats, I don’t see how anyone could argue that he is our best defender, by far. Horford was all over the glass, and Marvin was only touching net with his shot.

Hawks 4 life, the reason I dislike Woody is that we should play like this most of the time, instead of on rare occasions. I know Woody is not actually on the court himself, but still, it is the coach’s job/responsibility to get the most out of the team as possible.

My final question for Woody is: does he think they play with a different ball in the fourth quarter? What is the big deal playing Law in the fourth? Does he think AC is going to go out there and just vomit every play? How come none of these horrible fears don’t apply to Horford? I don’t care what anyone says, I think Woody is a terrible, terrible coach. (and yes, I still love Josh Smith)

By JerryWest

November 15, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

3 accidents last night:

The injuries could have so much worse.

The first accident when Smoove and Wallace collided like Couching Tiger Hidden Dragon, I missed a heartbeat because Smoove’s fall was nasty. At the very least, I though he had a shoulder tear. May be a shoulder separation. It could very well have been a career ending injury. Check it out again if you have it taped.

Kudos to Smoove for risking so much for the team. However, it was also a bone-headed play. There was no way he was going to avoid contact and a foul call was inevitable.

I watched the play where Smoove injured his quad many times in slow motion, and it really looked like nothing. Could have happened when he was climbing stairs. I wonder if the previous mid air collision contributed to this.

Smoove needs to start taking care of his body because he could become unemployed in one crazy play.

If Acie’s injury really hurts, its not because of the fall of Hollins. Hollins basically fell when Acie’s leg was horizontal on the ground, and Hollins back fell at the sole of Acies shoes. If Hollins fell 6 inches higher on Acies leg, he could have broken Acie’s high ankle. If its not broken it must be very minor, and since he was walking at the locker room, its not broken. It looked very scary but it can’t be a significant injury.

Folks, I think we managed to avoid three bullets last night.

On a side note,

in Acie’s last 63 minutes he had 17 assists and 2 turnovers.

In his last 37 minutes he had 12 assists and 0 turnovers.

If he continues this for another 30 games, Woody might start thinking about taking all the clutch minutes away from Lue.

By ray

November 15, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

Clyde=moron, nice try. Changed the argument to something else completely, Let’s review your post:

“Please, please, please name me on NBA Coach who doesn’t have a preferrence for playing veterans over rookies, particularly in close-and-late game situations?”

Your words, or am I mistaken? You then go and delve into the past with a Rick Adelman-Jason Williams referrence. Then you flash forward to Conley and Ivaroni. It’s very easy to come up with two situations to support your argument, isn’t it? So easy in fact, that I was able to do the same and come up with two situations that refute your argument. I delved into the past as well, and gave you TWO answers to your question. There was no comparison until YOU brought it up.

Look at your question again. You asked for one case of a coach preferring to play his rook over a veteran. You did not say what position, you did not say what year, or what type of player. All I showed you was that your argument was self-serving, lacking complete thought or specific definition of the point you intend to make, and extremely vulnerable. The thing is, none of this would’ve even crossed my mind for more than a second had you not resorted to needless name-calling. It could have remained a simple discussion. But so confident in your supposedly supreme argument, you had to go there. So, you got as good as you gave.

AGAIN, there was no comparison of players. I know the stats, and anybody can look them up. Not once did I offer a comparison of stats, nor did I offer up any definition of status of the mentioned players. You did that, but you didn’t do it until after you got called on your argument. So no, no comparison offered here, just answering your original question, which was phrased in such a way that it left countless openings.

STFU? Juvenile….

By randy

November 15, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

JOE’S BACK!! Absolutely awesome. I hope Acie and JSmoove’s injury are nothing serious. On the Hawk’s website they list them as day to day, whatever that means. Hopefully they will be back within the next 2 or 3 games.

By JerryWest

November 15, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

Sekou - Any updates on the injuries?

By mountain jim

November 15, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou, this blog has gotten old and stale.. Where are ya? What’s the extent of last night’s injuries? That’s what I most want to hear about right now.

By ScoobySnacks

November 15, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

All not named Clyde or Ray Since they seem to have their own totally unrelated thing going.

By Ken Strickland

November 15, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

Come on fellows, these blogs have been too civilized for the kind of animosity that’s starting to rear its ugly head. All of us regulars should know each other well enough not to be offended by a differing of opinion. Most of the problems can be avoided by just accepting what I say as unquestioned facts, hee hee.

I’ve had some issue with Woody’s coaching style, but he has really made an effort to improve. He’s switched from his preferred half court to an uptempo style OFF. He’s inserted ALaw as the starting PG very early. For those still questioning his substitution policies, consider this. This is the deepest, most talented, and versatle Hawks team he’s coached. With so many buttons available for him to push, it’s not easy knowing the right ones to push each gm.

When the season started Woody had to know which players preseason performance would carry over into the season. How well would his 2 prized rookies perform under regular season pressure. All of this had to be known before he could establish his rotation. Right now, I think he’s settled on his top 8 players. Zaza, JJ, SSmith, MWilliams and ALaw are his starters. JChildress, TLue, and AHorford are the primary backups. SWilliams, SStaudamire, MWest and SJones will be used situationally. At this point, he will be working on team chemistry now that he’s settled on his rotation. Let’s be reasonable and wait until the allstar break before jumping to anymore judgement calls.

By cp

November 15, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

Im loving what Marvin is doing this season. I just wish he was a little more aggresive. My problem with Woody is that he just dosent seem to have a gameplan most days. When we play uptempo and share the ball and have movement we play well. When we slow it down and have to play halfcourt we struggle… He has to figure out a way to keep it flowing. I hope the injuires aren’t too serious.

By HB Ando

November 15, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

Curious, I thought I had a Billy obsession. Now, it appears, I have a Smoove obsession? Okie dokie.

You seemed to have missed the point. I’m not down on Smoove. I just think he might be our best bargaining chip come next summer. And as good as his positives are, his negatives are frightening (can’t shoot, more interested in being a star than being a winner, has the basketball IQ of a 9-year old), when you look to build a consistent, championship contending team.

All I’m saying is that this team should not feel forced to hand a max contract to a “finisher” who struggles to keep his FG% over 40. And Marvin’s continued development, as a legitimate, scoring “3” gives them the flexibility to move Smoove for the solution at center.

Doc, thanks for highlighting what is clear to most of the lucid thinkers here. What’s a blog if not a place for differing opinions? How am I any different than anyone else here, with his (or her) own take on the Hawks?

See, this is the kinder, gentler Ando.

So don’t hate on me ‘cause I’m always right……..

Hehe…

By mykhalc

November 15, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

ANDO, good one!!LMAO

By Khao$

November 15, 2007 11:24 PM | Link to this

Friendly question Ando: what center out there do you think we could we get, through a direct trade by moving Josh Smith or indirectly as a result of moving him, that will produce in the key areas he’s successful in? I’m asking because you said, And Marvin’s continued development, as a legitimate, scoring “3” gives them the flexibility to move Smoove for the solution at center. I agree, we should use one of our many forwards to get some help in the middle and Josh isn’t Jordan (thus, he’s not untouchable). However, given Smith is our best option in terms of shot blocking (in fact he is at the top of the league this year and was 2nd last year), he’s still young (21), and his game is improving, what Center option out there can we get that will make up for his production, especially in this “new NBA” where everybody except San Antonio, Denver, Portland (after last year’s draft), Miami (Shaq is still somewhat imposing), Phoenix and Orlando wants a center? Dampier in Dallas? Nope. Diop? He’s good, but nothing to run home and tell your mother about. Curry? Plays no defense. Bogut? Not a chance. The only person I’d say is worth consideration is Gasol. My point is, teams with good centers aren’t giving them away nowadays. They are a rarity. I’m not discounting Smith’s definiencies. However, the one skill he does have that has any semblance of being polished is one that many teams in the league are looking for: shot blocking. He’s making strides in other areas in his game. He makes bone head plays. However, he’s still 21. No matter how much we question his basketball IQ, his age still must be considered. Is he the Hawk’s best bargining chip? Yes. But moving him isn’t necessarily going to help the Hawks cause at the 5 (or in the middle), directly or indirectly. In fact, it could take us a few steps back, given the lack of game changing shot blockers. I guess you could argue that we could find some 5 out there that will help strengthen the team, from a concept standpoint. However, if I could use the same argument people have used to dismiss the idea of trading Marvin Williams, I think it’s a dangerous idea to trade a 21 year old player who can play multiple positions, block shots, is learning post play (as evidenced in yesterday’s game), and is in the top of the league in steals. Yes, he has some flaws in his game and attitude that would makes giving him max money an uneasy proposition. However, we must assess the league to see if you could fill a position of need without giving away the one player who has a specialized talent on the roster.

Long story short, if Josh is our bargining chip, and we had the chance to be GM, what reasonable trade scenerio could we conjure up to justify trading him that will stregthen our team? I’m playing “Chris Dimino” right now. I’m not challenging the position that Josh is the best bargining chip, but I want to know, what’s out there. Keep in mind, your GM is Billy Knight, who hasn’t had much success in the league. You have to factor him into any trade idea.

By Khao$

November 15, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

Also keep in mind, LA has been skeptical about trading Bynum because of his age and the fact his still young if he’s given as a potential trading candidate involving Smoove or any other Hawk’s player.

By Clyde=moron

November 15, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this

ray,

I admit my original question left it open to multiple interpretations, but read my last post again. I conceded the point that if we had an elite pg, it would be a different case.

The point I’m making is that Acie didn’t come in as an elite pg, so he has something to prove. He hasn’t earned it, and until he does, NO nba coach would be giving him minutes down the stretch if there was another pg on the team with a proven record of performing in the clutch.

By ray

November 15, 2007 11:56 PM | Link to this

Khao, unfortunately you are correct sir, in regards to Billy Knight being the chief factor in any trade talk. We can only hope if any deals are made, they make sense. No more deals that involve clearing up cap room or involve getting more draft picks (unless it means jettisoning players we weren’t getting much out of anyway…in which case, a draft pick rather does come in handy). Clearing cap room shouldn’t be done again unless Billy has two or three very solid plans on acquiring a player (s) that really helps this team get to the next level. No matter what you come up with, Billy is still gm.

Oh, and I have no idea who we should be going for (as a center type) to be honest. As far as using Josh as trade bait, it has to be a team that has a need for a player like him. Or at least a strong want/desire for him. But that team also must have what we need (unless it is a multi-player trade, in which case one of the teams involved would need to have what we wanted). If anything happens with the Lakers (which it won’t) then I’d say Bynum.

If you saw the last game, you saw a play where the strong-as-a-bull Okafor was making a move to the basket, defended by Horford. He managed to get the shot off, but was swatted rather unceremoniously by Smith. It illustrated a couple of things. One, Horford is just about as strong as Okafor already. He’ll get stronger. He held his own, forcing Okafor to try and shoot over the top. Two, Josh Smith is primarily a weak-side shot blocker.

Scooby Snacks, sorry was nobody paying attention to you? OH, and the question you had? Ask Woody, although I’m not sure he knows why the team hasn’t been forcing the tempo either…

By HB Ando

November 16, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

Khao$, that’s the $64,000 question, isn’t it. And you have to admit that pointing out to me, of all people, the limitations of Billy Knight, as the GM, borders on ironic (I mean who’s been a bigger critic than me).

I think that the answer is: let’s take a look at the landscape next summer, when the draft order is set and we can realistically assess Josh’s market value. There’s no doubt that young bigs are harder to get than any other talent. Which begs the question: why the heck has Billy never used a pick, or maneuvered with the slot he had (Shelden at 5?) to take a shot at a 7-footer?

Biedrins, Jefferson and Bynum are all kids that were drafted after our selections, in their respective drafts. Both were lottery picks, so it’s not like they were shockers. It took KG to dislodge Jefferson from the Celtics. And, from all reports, Biedrins and Bynum are not up for discussion. Now, I’m not saying that Smith couldn’t fetch you either, this summer. But I’m also not saying that I’d give up Smith for either. At this moment.

So, what I am saying is that the Hawks will have some challenging decisions to make this summer. How much is Josh demanding? Has he committed himself to playing in a style that is best for the team? Is there a team that is going to sign him to an offer sheet that exceeds what the Spirit are willing to commit? Does that team have a big, or an early lottery pick, that is compelling to package, in a sign-and-trade?

I mean, if Hibbert really emerges this season, as the force some see him as, and we can trade Smith, in a sign-and-trade, for the rights to Hibbert, and another compelling veteran, who’s to say what’s possible?

I agree, looking at the current landscape, that there are very few “low-risk” options for such a trade. But if you believe, like I do, that, ultimately, either Josh or Marvin will move on, then you have to start to consider which one, and for what?

And it’s clear that we need a center. Gasol’s relationship with Memphis continues to looks shaky. Would we be a better team with a lineup of Law, JJ, Marvin, Horford and Gasol, next year, after Law, Marvin and Horford have gotten another year under their collective belts? I think so.

Again, all I’m saying is that Marvin’s emergence gives them flexibility next summer. And Josh’s unique athleticism gives them a compelling bargaining chip.

I’ve maintained, since the beginning of this blog, that I’d rather they take the chances, to build for greatness, than build a team that annually competes for 8th seeds.

This conversation has very little impact on this years’ team. You can’t maximize the trade value of any of our players, while they are still on their rookie contracts. So I think that what you see is what you’re going to get, this year.

But next summer, when we have no first round draft pick, and Josh Smith up for a big deal, the possibilities expand, exponentially.

It’s a solid point that there aren’t any obvious moves to make, right now. But, this time last year, can you have imagined that this year’s Celtics team would be comprised of Pierce, Allen and KG? Ainge has taken a lot of heat on this blog, over the last few years, as folks have sought to point out that Billy’s not the only knot head with a GM’s job. But Ainge assembled a lot of young, compelling talent. And then he went out and pulled the trigger on some deals that made Boston an immediate contender for the NBA championship.

Atlanta has that kind of young talent base (as Bill Simmons pointed out, after over a decade of picking in the lottery every year). Let’s see if something bold can get done, or if this franchise aspires to nothing more than low payroll, minor, annual profits, and the yearly temptation that we might make the playoffs.

I think that’s what Joe Johnson is trying to figure out right now. And if it’s the latter, you’ll know when he seeks a trade out of Hotlanta.

Actions speak louder than words.

By HB Ando

November 16, 2007 12:16 AM | Link to this

Ray, just tried your cell. Call me on my mobile (not the house line), if you’re up (sent it in an e-mail two minutes ago).

By A-ville Ranger

November 16, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

HB Ando sorry it took so long to get back I’ve been in football mode.To answer your question..no that is not fair to say.It is fair to say that the whole team needs to play smarter and not take so many stupid shots.I hope that helps clear it up for you.

By HB Ando

November 16, 2007 1:20 AM | Link to this

Ranger, I think it’s the team that needs the point cleared up, not me. You said that San Antonio led the league in FG% and won the championship last year. Seems to me that the obvious conclusion of that outcome would be that the Hawks distribute a greater number of “looks” to the players who consistently hit a higher percentage of shots. Therefore, they should be looking to get Marvin, Chills and JJ the higher number of attempts, per game, than Josh Smith, who’s still at sub-40%.

“Smarter” and “accurate” simply don’t mean the same thing. “Smarter” is a subjective term, while “accurate” can be objectified by FG%.

But thanks for “clearing” it up for me…….

By ray

November 16, 2007 1:59 AM | Link to this

clyde=moron, I get you. But Acie is never going to be that clutch guy if he doesn’t get thrust into those clutch situations. Besides, he’ll try to make something happen while Lue will pound the ball for 20 seconds. When does the future become the present?

And dude…tell me you can come up with a better name than the one you’re using now. You just gotta…