Hawks

By Ryder

November 8, 2007 9:56 AM | Link to this

Great points, Sekou, especially about the home crowd advantage Atlanta finally has. People around this city know that the buzz is real. Stephen A. Smith is saying that the buzz is real. Their play down the stretch (even in losses) shows that the buzz is real.

That said, there’s no way Woodson starts Zaza on Friday against Boston. Zaza is a bench player at best, and when paired with Al they will make a good combo in spurts.

I’m really glad to see how JJ became a distributor when his shot wasn’t working. I think that willingness to sacrifice will rub off more on Acie and the others.

I can’t wait for Friday night’s game. That is going to be classic!

By MannyT

November 8, 2007 9:59 AM | Link to this

As a season ticket holder for a few years, it is GREAT to see/hear the crowd behind the Hawks. I’ll admit I was very surprised at the size of the Wednesday crowd. I hope the fan support continues.

The basketball has been exciting. It was good to see Salim in play last night. Our bench should give us an advantage every night as long as Woody uses the right guys for the situation. We should be able to dictate play with any team that lacks a strong inside post up game. If there is a big post up player, we will have to try to run those folks out of the game. Zaza’s return should give the Hawks flexibility if a big front court (Zaza, Al, Josh S) is needed.

It’s a great start to the season. Looking forward to the battle in Boston.

By Floze

November 8, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this

I think we will see Sheldon’s minutes vanish when ZaZa returns. Just as there is a place for Salim on this team - there is one for ZaZa as well. He has the post moves that Horford hasn’t really shown yet.

Sheldon Williams…….

At any event - How about this Five on the court last night.

Chills Joe Marvin Josh Horford

These guys are our 5 best players and I think the length of Chills at the 1 can overcome his lack of quickness - at least in a zone. I would like to see this 5 on the floor more. Law is Raw (Ahh yea). That will improve once the game slows down for him just as Horford should improve in the post. But those 5 give us the best chance of Beating Boston on Friday.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

November 8, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this

I actually had the fortune to go to the season opener and the game in Jersey(what I believe represent the two ends of our game). The home opener was all energy, aggression, and enthusiasm; whereas the Nets game was all about reacting and sulking.

As would be expected with a young team, they still feed off of energy/momentum (Which is why I think they will play better at home and use the “home court advantage” Sekou). They fed off the crowd vs Dallas even when the Mavs took a small lead in the second half, but they did not buckle. Against the Nets though they languished and appeared to sulk after things didnt go right. This is why it looked like they stopped running and played into the Nets hands. I think the dreariness of the Izod Center played a part of that like Sekou said. You could hear individual fans yell at the players- both sad and hilarious. I have the fortune of being able to also go to the Celtics game on Friday so I’m anxious to see how they handle a hostile crowd (hopefully two points better than they did Detroit). The crowd should be energized if not hostile, but hopefully there will be at least 2 Hawks fans [me + someone] to counter.

By smartguy

November 8, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

Good win. I didn’t watch enough to make any big statements (I saw a stale half court offense, but we put up over 100), but it was great to see Salim on the court. It took three games too long, but better late than never for this “no brainer.” Score a hundred, and we win. Better coaching from Woody, too, I guess.

By ATLplayer

November 8, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

First…the Hawks are off to a better than expected start. Everyone thought the 7-1 preseason didn’t mean anything. I love Law at the point. On the flip side I say play Zaza Pachulia now. Allow the rookie to get mins at PF and C. Zaza brings alot to the Hawks. Until Zaza proves otherwise I would start him and play him about 25min a game.

By doc

November 8, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

i know there will be a place for zaza, horford, smash, jj and chills on the court at the same time with acie and marvin thrown in there for good measure. we saw we can go small last night now we need to see how big we can get and i really look forward to that match up when it comes to see if the boys can grow into men.

By Astro Joe

November 8, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this

Let’s put things in a little perspective here, I’m pretty sure that Shelden went for something like 20/13 against the Pistons in his rookie season before Thanksgiving. And the Pistons front line is far better than a bunch of 6’8” cream-puffs from Phoenix (or France). And I think Shelden had a 15-16 board game a few nights before that Pistons contest in his rookie year (I just can’t find it anywhere on the net).

Obviously, Horford is a better player than Shelden. He’s much more athletic and will eventually become a solid offensive player as well. This is not intended to take anything away from Horford as much as to remind that when Shelden was provided consistent pt early in his rookie season, he too was able to provide some significant rebounding support.

Sekou, any injury updates on Lo, Craig or Za?

By redhawk

November 8, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

2 and 2 looks pretty good at this point. And the Hawks had four double/doubles—almost five with Horford’s 8 and 15. I agree with smartguy that the half-court offense looks dead in the water a lot of the time—I think ZaZa can help with this. He can shoot mid-range, force the ball inside and make foul shots. Yeah, he’s a reserve player, but a good one. I don’t get why everybody is piling on the Z-man. I think the only way to beat the Celtics is with our bench against their bench, and our point and center against theirs. Just try not to get beat up too bad by the big 3. Or the PGA tour, some people call it. By the way, a couple of real nice assists by Salim too. Draw and kick to Childress in the corner for an open three. Sweet.

By TheRick

November 8, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

I realize everyone, myself included, is thrilled with the big win last night. However, was I the only one disturbed at how we kept letting them back in the game? Everytime we got up by nine, we’d let them cut it back down to three or four. I had visions of Detroit again. We have got to find some killer instinct. Long term, I think Acie has the best chance of developing that. In the mean time, any suggestions?

By DemDems4Ever

November 8, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this

The 06-07 Hawks would have lost by double digits with JJ going 3 for 17 from the floor and the assists would not have been there without Marvin’s improved shooting.

Josh Smith still put up some very ugly outside shots but inside he was a demon and made several excellent passes for baskets. Double, double.

Acie Law is an excellent point and he will improve in short order. He does not have the respect of the officials yet but because he reacts to calls in a positive manner the respect will come sooner rather than later.

Marvin rebounded against Phoenix, and not just the easy free throw or all alone rebounds; he was after the ball and took down some tough boards in traffic. I may have to change my view of his future.

Shelden played tough minutes in the 1st half with solid defense and work on the boards. Just what you expect from S. Williams.

T Lue proved his value with some clutch shooting and solid play.

Salim was Salim - energy and unfailing confidence in his ability to shoot. A thrill to watch even when he is not “on”.

Al Horford is our best draft pick in many, many years, with a huge future.

Now for the City of Atlanta! How can there be gridlock for miles around the arena on a Wednesday night? Moving four blocks took over 30 minutes and only the purest of basketball fans will tolerate this nightmare. This is the 2nd Hawks game this year to have the problem and fans will eventually stay home rather than go through such a mess.

The Atlanta Police only made the situation worse with their inept efforts at directing traffic.

The Mayor and Council demanded the arena and Dome be placed where there is no interstate access and should now bear the responsibility to provide simple, easy routes to the venues. But, this is a Mayor and Council, along with their predecessors, who have ignored the rotting sewer and water system for 30-40 years so progress is unlikely.

By MannyT

November 8, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

TheRick There are times when we don’t take advantage of matchups. Last night when Phoenix went small, Atlanta followed. It was a great opportunity when the pace of play slowed down to constantly post up Barbosa. It wasn’t like the Suns had any shot blocker on the floor. (Remember how Lue kept getting attacked on D the other night on the road.)

We have got to get used to making other teams pay. Chuck Daly used to do it all the time with the 80s Pistons. Keep taking advantage of a matchup until it goes cold or changes the way they defend you.

Looking forward to Friday’s game. We might need Al, Zaza, & Sheldon to slow down KG. The Hawks are showing that they have the confidence to get it done.

By kevin

November 8, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

young teams let people back in.. back they are much better than in previous years.

This team is so close its like tasting it. The hawks are one quality big and one solid backup point away from being true contenders. If could get another big that has some beef ( lo actually might help) and another point that doesnt chuck chuck it ( tlue you know who you are, and AJ is starting to look old, salim makes a perfect third combo guard )this team would be in great shape.

By Mash

November 8, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

Sekou, I’ve been going to games for three years now as a season ticket holder and I was shocked at the Philips atmosphere against Dallas. Typically in those types of games, we’ll see more fans for the other team, but not this year. (Although starting “the wave” in the middle of the fourth quarter last night was a tad bit ridiculous).

I know we should just be happy we won the game, but what’s up with that no-call on the clear path foul. Nash grabs Josh from behind on a breakaway, and no clear pah call? Was Donoughy reffing last night or something?

By terrell barron

November 8, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

We are going to need a better game from our all star to beat the Celtics. Sekou, is Joe playing at 100 percent? I dont see that fire in his eyes like I did last year. Maybe its just me. I cant remember the last time I saw JJ miss so many open jumpers, although, he did hit some clutch free throws at the end of the game. But anyway, great win. GO HAWKS. One more thing, for God’s sake, please dont give Craig and Lorenzen any more TV time. If I see them chillin on the bench(showing off the bling) one more time I think I’m going to puke.

By welcome to atlanta

November 8, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

Sekou, do you know who makes the starting times for home games? The league or someone with the Hawks? If it’s someone with the Hawks they need to be fired. 7:00pm starting times any weeknight is to early with Atlanta traffic. 7:30 at the earliest!!! Go Hawks!

By Ramon

November 8, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this

Manny T, I’m in agreement with you as far as using the right match ups. And I truly believe to start the game off Friday whenever the Hawks are forced in to a half court offense, they should post up JJ. By doing this, it forces Ray Allen to play defense and either use a lot of energy on defense, or end up in foul trouble. Not to mention, I think with how good JJ passes, he will be able to pass out of a double team to a spot up jumper (Marvin, Acie, and even Smoove on the block).

With the lack of a bench that Boston has, Woody should be trying to come up with a game plan that makes them rely on that bench early and often. So even if Marvin is slashing a lot with Pierce guarding him, eventually that will lead to more fouls and also more dishes to Smoove, Horford, and Zaza for baskets. This will happen because Garnett is the ULTIMATE teammate so he will try to rotate and help out.

It is VERY important for the Hawks to get off to a good start in this game, because Boston does not let up during the game (ala Boston vs. Denver). So go right at their Big Three and make them play on BOTH ends of the floor. Then run, run, run, and sub just so you can run more. LOL

By Darrin "The Vent King"

November 8, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

I THINK THERE MAY BE SOME NEW DIRTY BIRDS IN TOWN BABY! THE DIRTY HAWKS!

Its extremely satisfying to have an Atlanta crowd that isn’t criticized for something most cities do- when the team stinks, the fans stay home. Its not just Atlanta, EVERYBODY loves a winner and what have they done to garner that? The same thing Falcons and Braves have lately- nothing. So I wish people would get off that. I don’t hear anyone ripping those fake fans in Miami that didn’t show up to any Marlin games FOR YEARS until they were in the World Series a couple of years ago. Where’s the love in Portland, oh yeah that team stinks. What about Montreal? No one said anything about those fans not showing up to Expos games until things got so bad, they had to sell the team. Look at the Celtics, no one up there was intersted in them, now that they got KG and co. that place is rocking. So I really wish people would stop making the ATL fans out to be the worst in the world- EVERYBODY in this country is bandwagon except for maybe three or four cities- St. Louis, N.Y., Boston, and Chicago. That leaves 3 or 4 dozen cites with pro teams that are just as fickle as Atlantans, so give me a break with that. “Win, and they will come…” That is true everywhere, not just here.
Anyway, if the Hawks can stop getting the “i-tis” after half-time and continue to attack, they can be a running team like the Suns and do it even better. They have way too many young gazelles on this team not to! Run, run, run, kill, kill, kill! Run them ‘til it hurts! Why not,they’re one of the youngest team, if not THE youngest in the league. If Marvin continues to show up to go along with JJ and J-Smoove, the additions of Acie Law and Al “the Beast” Horford are going to give team fits. I can’t wait til they put it all together. This is going to be awesome!

GO HAWKS!!

By MARK

November 8, 2007 12:29 PM | Link to this

GOOD WIN GO HAWKS, THE TV PRODUCTION OF THE GAMES SO FAR THIS SEASON HAS BEEN TERRIBLE. WHAT’S UP SPORTSOUTH. AGAIN NICE WIN HAWKS.

By Andy

November 8, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Sekou, what is the update on Speedy Claxton? Is he done for the year? His career? And do the doctors still NOT find anything wrong with him? Can we sue him for not living up to his contract while not being “injured?”

By randy

November 8, 2007 12:45 PM | Link to this

To get 1 out of 2 against playoff teams with Joe Johnson struggling is very good. Marvin is simply spectacular, knocking down jump shots after jump shot. When Josh Smith focuses on going inside and not settling for outside shots he is awesome. J Chill is definately starting to pick it up now too. I don’t know if Zaza will start or not on Friday, but there are definately some good minutes for Zaza. What Horford has, Zaza hasn’t and what Zaza has, Horford hasn’t so they both bring something different.

By the way, putting in Salim was a great move by Woody. I don’t think it would have worked too well against NJ or Det because their smalls are all too big for Salim to guard (flashback to last year when Kidd posted up Salim every trip down the court). But Steve Nash isn’t going to post you up, he will either beat you with speed to the basket or from the 3 pt arch. Both those Salim can guard against. He is sort of a situational player and playing him last night was a nice move.

I think Law still has a lot to learn. When he comes down the court it sometimes looks like he passes it just to pass it, not looking for open lanes and finding guys down low. I still have some reservations about his “floor general” mentality, but on the other hand it is only his 4th game and I think it will come in time when he grows more confident and familiar with everything.

GOOOO HAWWWWWKS!!!

By randy

November 8, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Mark, I like the commentating during the game with Smitty and that other guy. They are very good. But Nique is horrible, he needs to do whatever he did last year— shake hands, wave, whatever his job is and stay out of telecasting. He has absolutely no TV charisma whatsoever nor anything interesting to say. But Smitty rocks!

By big o

November 8, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

It’s comiming. I just hope mgmt. keeps these kids together and let them grow. salim is legit with great range. If I can go old school, he could be to us what Vinnie Johnson was to the Pistons during badboy. Boston will be a good test win or loose it will help these kids.

By Jeff

November 8, 2007 1:02 PM | Link to this

Sekou—enjoyed your comments. You’re on the money. This athletic Hawks team is so fun to watch. And the crowd last night was fantastic. Horford is a rebounding monster, and I love Childress coming off the bench—especially when he puts up a double double. The only downside to last night was the traffic. The Atlanta Police Dept. needs to come up with a better plan.

By cp

November 8, 2007 1:11 PM | Link to this

Gotta agree with Darrin about the itus. It is imperative that we come out with a lot of energy against Boston just as one poster said, they dont let up at all. If we get off to a good start we cant start playing tight as in the past. If we get a lead we have to keep running and go for the juggular. It will be nice to have ZA ZA back but I would probably let him come off the bench. Horford is going against Perkins so I dont think he will have a hard time defensively seeing that Perkins is no offensive threat . The key is KG. The guy is playing possessed. We have to slow him down and keep him off the boards somehow. It wont be easy. I want to see Marvin continue to be agrresive and put up 20 plus again Friday. Hopefully Joe finds his stroke and Salim gets more pt. It is hard to see where Sheldon fits in once ZA Za gets back. Either way im ready for the game Friday

By Brad in KY

November 8, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this

I can’t believe my ears. The Atlanta Hawks don’t have a glut of players anymore…now they have depth; players all the way down the bench that can enter the game and do more than than just take up space. They actually contribute. It’s been awhile.

I have to confess that it seemed fairly clear a year or two ago that this was a likely possibility given the extremely young talent on the Hawks’ roster. I’m just glad they’ve stuck with the program (and Woodson) until the talent was in place to make a fair evaluation of where things stand. Looking good so far. And they’re still so young.

By FeudFinder

November 8, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

Hey Mr. Smith, you can call me crazy like you want to, but the hawks is going to handle the celtics its first loss tomorrow IF the team outrebounds the celtics. It may take an overtime, but the hawks will eventually be victorious.

By Mike

November 8, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this

DemDems4Ever obviously you are fairly new to the ATL. Traffic is always going to be terrible around that time with or without the Hawks game. Take Marta it’s Smarter. Take the train next game Bro.

It will be great to get the Z man back. He offensive repertoire can really help the team, but he’s such a defensive liability it’s still better to start AH and bring Z out the bench. Put it this way, when Z is not scoring he’s not effective. When AH is not scoring he is still a beast on the boards, setting back screens , and challenging shots. Need I say more?

This might sound crazy but actually Solo five fouls would be a great weapon to use in the Boston game, or any game. Make no mistake about it, Solo is no AH or Shelden, but he’s a high energy guy that can block shots. Answer this anyone? Why can’t Solo be used the way Woodson uses Mario West. West doesn’t provide much scoring, but he is a high energy defensive player, so is Solo. Give this guy a chance.

Also thanks for the comment someone made about Shelden. You can see the obvious improvement from his first season. He’s really using his girth when he’s playing in the post now, plus he is playing with a lot more confidence. Shelden doesn’t have the hops or athleticism of AH, but he can bang. That’s something the Z man has never had the heart or desire to do is bang in the post.

It’s great to see the crowds back at Phillips, it brings back the old memories. I go all the way back before the Omni with the Hawks. Nice to hear that Buzz back in the ATL, it’s been way to long.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Patrick

November 8, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I’ve seen it said on many websites, but I wanted to say it here:

You are one of, if not the best, beat writers in the NBA. Keep it up.

By mavid

November 8, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I was thnking the same thing about Smoove last night.

After watching Marion live in a preseason game in Vancouver a couple weeks ago, I think Smoove may have surpassed him, or will very, very soon. We’re gonna have to pay to keep this man-child.

You can’t, can’t CAN’t send Horford to the bench now. He’s already our best option and is ALREADY a top 10 rebounder in this league.

Wow. Just wow. He is fun to watch.

By mykhalc

November 8, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

posted this in the earlier blog not realizin’ we had a new one

lotta good points made today!!

JOE, yours was one that jumped out at me. the move puttin’ JJ and MARVIN on the same side of the floor. that was a good move and even better that MW was nailin’ the jumper!!

DOC, good call on the movement in the set offense. good to know you could see it. definitely need more like that.

and how ‘bout your boy SALIM!!! i’ve been hard on him!!! but no doubt his shot made a big difference in how PHO had to adjust their defense. WOODSON even said he might shoulda played him in DET but he was lookin’ at matchups. but at least he did admit he might shoulda gone to him then too.

the help defense was what kept jumpin’ out at me over the tube!!! that, to me, is the biggest difference that i’ve seen as a team so far this year!! last year, what help defense!!! JS always supplied good weakside help but this year, cats are REALLY coverin’ for one another!! and i’m sure AL has a lot to do with that. but regardless it looks good!!!!

MARVIN’s game is really steppin’ up!! him nailin’ down the open shots is needed soooooooo much. GLAD to see it!!!

and for those complainin’ about ACIE, have at it. i ain’t worried!!!!

By nookah

November 8, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Darrin “TVK”, I read your post and you stole my thunder. That is exactly my sentiment. People like winners, period. Win and they’ll come!!!

However, it is nice to see the “waggonists” piling on to the train so early. I personally thought it would have taken a little longer to get them out to the games but it has happened much earlier than I estimated. I know it’s early but my original prediction of 46 wins is looking achievable.

Someone mentioned that JJ apparently is not playing with as much fire but we must remember he had 10 assists, so don’t underestimate his contribution. What it tells us however, is that others are stepping up and we hope we can sustain this level of play and all around contribution. My main concern is when we go into the half court sets. We need some uummmph there and I think with time Al, Josh and with Zaza getting back we will get better.

I am sure we have noticed Marvin’s swagger. He has been outstanding so far and as the season goes on he will be playing at a high level.

I cannot say enough about Al’s contribution so far. He has been a great addition for us. Sometime last year I said in a post that Billy will be vindicated. I know it is 4 games into the season but I still stand by my statement.

So far so good!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!

Nuff respect!!!!

By Sri

November 8, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

I can’t wait for eternal pooper, Terence Moore, coming out with a column criticizing the Hawks. Sekou, you make some very good points. HOw about passing this column to Terence?

By mykhalc

November 8, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

MAVID, i’m with ya bro. THERE IS NO WAY HORFORD should go to the bench. i said it back when i listed my desired lineup, which is the one we have now, that ZAZA plays best off the bench. and i really think he is more comfortable in that role.

WOODSON needs to roll with the startin’ 5 he’s got on the floor and let them continue to develop some chemistry. if ZAZA goes back in the startin’ 5 then there goes any chemistry that was there. then there would be this string of games of seein’ ZAZA start that would bring WOODSON back to the lineup he has now. then there would be another set of games to get the chemistry back!!! HORFORD brings what is needed in the startin’ group…somebody that LOVES to hit the glass, bang, and play solid and intense defense. then on top of that he can run and finish on the breaks!!!

it’s a no brainer…ZAZA comes off the bench!!!

SEKOU, smokin’ blog again (as usual)!!!

By I.MUS WRITE

November 8, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Great game last night!!! The length of our starting five is causing all kinds of problems. I cant ever remember a hawks team causing this many turnovers on a nightly basis. O how soon they forget, ZaZA is our best low post scoring option. I like the energy horford brings,but he turns the ball over a good bit and needs to be more consistent with his offense. It might not be a bad idea to play horfie and zaza together.

Starting line up for friday:

Acie,JJ,JS,Horford,ZAZA…….If JJ goes cold like last night then itz marvin to the rescue. Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the beantown massacre GO Hawks!!!!!!!!!

By mykhalc

November 8, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

I.MUS WRITE, NO WAY you send MARVIN to the bench right now!!! NO WAY!!! ZAZA does not bring more to the table than you’d be losin’ by sittin’ MARVIN right now.

it’s a no brainer…ZAZA comes off the bench!!!

there’ll be minutes for ZAZA against BOS, no doubt!!!

By BUSHWACKER

November 8, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

I had season tickets back in the 80’s when Hubie Brown was the coach. It’s no different now than it was then, and all the way thru the Dominique years. Like Steve Smith said about Nique and what made him one of the 20 “the hell with top 50” greatest players of all time.

Not just every game, but every trip down the floor, Dominique WAS COMING AT YOU with the pedal to the floor, with enthusiasm, intensity, no fear and attitude.

Stop if me if you can!!!

These Hawks are seem to have that same drive, but they are a very young team and they have to remmeber, every trip down the floor like its the last one, keep playing at that level and good thungs will happen!!

Keep it up guys, we really need you right now!

By randy

November 8, 2007 2:53 PM | Link to this

Lets hand Boston their first loss of the season!! GOOOOO HAWWWWKS!!!!!

By brian elliott

November 8, 2007 2:55 PM | Link to this

I attended the game in NJ and was saddened by the play of the Hawks. Their passing game needs much improvement. They Post up too many times and can’t always penetrate. Tyrone Lue took too may shots and does not serve well at point. I am glad that Acie Law is playing. It’s good that they bounced back with a big win in Atlanta against Phoenix. Go Hawks!

By Jessica

November 8, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

They’re terrible. They’re not any better than they were last year, or the year before. Come on. Who are we kidding Atlanta? Great city, but awful teams.

By Mike

November 8, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc you are 1000% correct. Marvin is the most consistent scorer for the team so far, if anything play off the double team of Joe and create some easier shot for Marvin, Smoove, Chill, and AH. Better yet play Marvin and AH in the pick and roll, and rotate to the other side and play Smoove and AH in the pick and roll with Joe, Acie, or Salim being the feeder. Woooooow!!! talking about a match up problems, that’s a match up nightmare.

By THE Hawks Fan

November 8, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

You cant stop the Big 3. We have to clamp down on the supporting cast. The Celts had 26 turnovers against Denver. So we have to be a running team Friday night. Eddie House is quick as a rat. We have to find him on the floor at all times. I think we will start seeing the fourtunes of beating Dallas and the Suns. We will need it in our Half court defense tomorrow night. We need to come together and play as a complete TEAM. A win could set off a serious 5 game win streak with oour next few games. lets GOOO HAWKS!!! Put your STAMP on this SEASON!!

By randy

November 8, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

I have to disagree, this team is very different than the Hawks of the Nique era. Hawks now are more team oriented and balanced whereas the Nique Hawks were basically 4 setup men and one scorer/attacker.

By bwtbird

November 8, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Brilliant post Jessica…so much insight and knowledge it must be hard for you to post and limit yourself to mindless drivel

By mykhalc

November 8, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this

a little off-topic but….it’s funny and sad in some ways when i think about the CITY of ATLANTA TRAFFIC MGMT!! it is a JOKE, no doubt!! livin’ in san fran now (lived in ATL for 20+ yrs, still own my home there), it is soooooo evident how somethin’ like traffic mgmt makes sooooo much different in everyday life. here in SAN FRAN drivers know the lights are synchronized to the point if you drive the speed limit you will make EVERY light for 10 to 20 blks at a time. and once a light does catch you and you get a green again then you are good for another 10 to 20 blks. as much as i love the ATL, the city grid and it’s planners didn’t and don’t have a clue!!!! and yes, payin’ property taxes STILL GIVES ME a right to comment and b$tch!!!!!LOL

By Astro Joe

November 8, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

My enthusiasm for this team is tempered by the fact that our current PG situation means that opposing teams will likely dictate the game’s tempo. And our victories have been against teams that prefer to play faster. But Zaza’s return will certainly help when we have to grind it out. I hope Woody uses Salim in those situations also, not only can hit bury the long distance shot be he can also help quicken the pace.

Here’s hoping Woody exploits the clear advantage we have over Boston… DEPTH. Run the heck outta those old men and keep pushing the pace.

By mykhalc

November 8, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

randy, gotta agree with ya about this team. i was a season tix holder durin’ the ‘NIQUE years, and believe me, ‘NIQUE woulda shot his way out of the 3-17 nite JJ had to maybe 8-27 nite!!!LOL this team is really tryin’ to BE a team and play team ball, no doubt!!!

By nojuansfool

November 8, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this

What’s wrong with Joe Johnson? He looks worn out — in the 4th game of the year, no less.

By Najeh Davenpoop

November 8, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith is already better than Kirilenko. But Marion? I don’t think so, not yet. J-Smoove is creating shots around the rim now, which he never used to do, but I don’t know that he’s polished enough as a scorer to be on par with Marion right now. Maybe by the end of this year, but not yet.

Great game and great atmosphere yesterday though, it was great to see the bandwagon Suns fans walk out frowning.

By MannyT

November 8, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

mykhalc I got in the place late due to the crazy traffic last night. I promised you my take on Woody. He has a better, more cohesive unit—but I wonder if he’s got that killer instinct as a coach.

I think Chuck Daly was the closest to Bill Bellichek as a pro hoops coach. He kept running a play until you could stop it.

I think Woody is making reasonable decisions, but he is not going for the jugular in the 4th quarter when ahead.

I am not hatin’ on the man, but I wish he was a little more aggressive when he sees an advantage. If he can get that mindset in place during these tough games, the Hawks should be real strong against the average to subpar teams.

He’s got to work Zaza (and possibly Speedy) into the rotation at some point. If he can do it successfully, Woody has a decent year. For a great year, he needs a wrinkle. For example, more aggressive play, a funky line up that works against the dominant low post players, or the innovative use of his bench to consistently provide an advantage the Hawks can use regardless of the opponent.

Too early for a real grade, but he is passing so far.

The next 2 games will say much more as we go against teams with 3 strong players—one where we should be the underdog (Boston) and one that should favor us (the Wiz.)

By Witt Man

November 8, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY!

By Tyger

November 8, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

My Five

1. Thankfully, I dont have to start the “Free Salim” campaign. Its sheer stupidity to keep that talent cooped up.

2. Dont want to read too much into one game, but he looked pretty good as a back-up to AC Law.

3. Cant put too much credence into the wins vs. Dallas and Phoenix, neither play any defense.

4. JJ doesnt look good, his body language, energy and defense are awful.

5. What does it take for Solomon to hit the floor?

Is it just coincidence that when more assets are utilized, we win.

By MannyT

November 8, 2007 4:21 PM | Link to this

Is Witt Man Clyde’s half brother ;-)

By ajw

November 8, 2007 4:26 PM | Link to this

Darrin “The Vent King” I think you are a bit wrong on the win and they will come. We had a winning team in the late 90s. We made to a couple of 2nd round playoff series, and our home games didn’t sell out. I think a lot has to do with the type of players we have. We have some great talent on this team that is FUN TO WATCH and that is the difference win or lose with filling the seats. LOVE THIS TEAM!!!!!

By mykhalc

November 8, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

MannyT, much appreciated. as tough as i’ve been on WOODSON, i too, havin’ him with a passin’ grade. i have definitely supported ‘most’ of his rotations. and i definitely agree with you that he’ll even show more as he has to address rotatin’ ZAZA and possibly SPEEDY back in the mix. i’ve ALWAYS thought he did better with a shorter bench. so i’m anxious to see how he addresses PT with cats returnin’ from injury!!!

By JerryWest

November 8, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

People are forgetting that Acie outplayed Nash in the 1st quarter and only after Acie left with 2 fouls did Nash start to thrive.

By mykhalc

November 8, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this

Tyger, are you sayin’ this after seein’ the games ‘live’??? from seein’ it on the tube, to me, it just seems like he brought his game face at the start of the season!!??!! plus, from SEKOU’s article, it ‘seems’ like he is just bein’ a more demandin’ leader this year, of himself and teammates!!???!! anyone, that’s what i ‘think’ i see from afar….

By honest_abe

November 8, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

good point aj. the hawks can run with anyone as evidenced by last nights win over phx. they’re too athletic to be “run” out of the gym. the problems happen when teams slow things down and force the hawks to run a half court offense. there’s no movement or creativity on the part of the coaching staff to figure out ways in which to score. no reliable pg (yet) who can create for others. the hawks will win their fair share of games but until this glaring problem is addressed the hawks will continue to struggle with the best teams in the east.

By G Money

November 8, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

I was at the PHX game. Woody seems more amenable to tinkering. He seems like he’s trying to learn some new tricks and implement them at the same time. He let the team go back to Woody ball in Detroit and NJ. I think after viewing the tape, he’s starting to drink the kool-aid. I think TLue and JJ are also trying to find their stride in the new system. The old one seems so comfortable. Tlue stops at the top of the 3pt circle, pounds the ball for 10 seconds. JJ flared out and either drove to the hoop or spotted up with a jumper. No one is giving JJ his shot anymore. The league recognizes him as an all-star, and thus, he’s regularly doubled or tripled. He even got an all-star call last night when Raja bumped him (or he bumped Raja) at the end of the game.

By honest_abe

November 8, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

tyger: don’t put much into wins over phx and dallas? the hell is wrong with you man? i’ve told you before to please just say no to crack! basically what you’re saying is two wins over arguably two of the best teams in the nba doesnt’ mean anything? y o u a r e CLUELESS.

By JerryWest

November 8, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

So many people are asking about Speedy.

Why don’t you do some investigative journalism man.

By Daniel

November 8, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

It is nice to finally see some support for Woody. Let us also remember that Billy built this team and he has set us up with the pieces to make a trade at the deadline if we need to make a push for a deep playoff run. All those fire Woody and Billy chants seem quiet now. As they should be. We’re going to hit some tough spots so let’s not get over-hyped but we can actually say we have a very solid team - worthy of respect and our support. A nice change!

GO HAWKS.

By Astro Joe

November 8, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

JerryWest, I’m guessing that the Speedy is unofficially “on ice” until December or later. I’m guessing that they will give him more than enough time to return because it hurts the team to have him in and out. Better for him to take an extra 2 weeks than to come back and only go right back out. Let’s allow Law to stabilize before adding another variable into the PG mix.

Not to mention at this point, unless it is a report from a doctor who actually found something, how is anyone supposed to realistically know when the pain will subside?

By DHD

November 8, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

The HAWKS just may be the best team in ATL. I love hoe the team is deep. That will win some games down the stretch. Go Hawks!!

By Shamus Thacker

November 8, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

Great piece Sekou!

I’d been a Hawks fan since Pistol Pete, Sweet Lou, and Bells. The Nique trade jaded me toward the NBA as a whole. I completely lost touch for years. THIS team has me excited again! It’s ABSOLUTELY FOR REAL, and I’m so VERY proud of it.

A great scribe like Sekou makes it all the more enjoyable.

By Sekou K. Smith

November 8, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this

Speedy’s on the shelf until further notice. There’s no story there. The point guards you see in uniform on game night are the only ones playing anytime soon Mr. West, so there’s nothing to investigate.

By Jay Black

November 8, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

The Sniperrrrrrrr…….! Go Salim! Put him in more.

By Ken Strickland

November 8, 2007 7:21 PM | Link to this

Consider the following. When Zaza returns, it will give us more rebounding power and more OFF. He and Horford offer a nice change of pace at the 5. When Speedy returns, I promise you this team will run an uptempo OFF because that’s all he knows. Speedy will also improve our on the ball DEF. Imagine being pressured by Speedy and ALaw and having to keep up with them for 4 qtrs. While TLue doesn’t put much DEF pressure on anyone, he does create OFF pressure.

When Speedy and Zaza return, someone will have to go. Will it be West, AJohnson, LWright, Staudamire or SJones. Will salary or talent/need dictate. I really wish we could find a way to keep MWest. A player like him, with his kind of DEF intensity, can help win close gms.

By Kappy

November 8, 2007 7:28 PM | Link to this

I echo a lot of the sentiments around here, both positive and negative, about last night’s game. I really think Phoenix had difficulty with our length. We had hands in passing lanes and in Nash’s grill all night. Let’s remember that Josh Smith was the reason Steve Nash had not one but two turnovers in the 4th quarter. This is the 2 time defending NBA MVP. Nice!

I also agree that the Hawks’ energy is directly related to the crowd’s interest. Another sign of a young team. But half the teams in the league are young so I don’t see it hurting us in the long run.

Sekou, I give you some credit on the Salim call. I just didn’t see it happening after watching the first 3 games, but boy did he help out last night.

We need to run it on the Celtics. Why can’t we dictate a faster tempo against the New Jersey’s, Cleveland’s and Miami’s of the world. Let our athleticism take over! Grrrrrr. Bravo Hawks!

By reese

November 8, 2007 7:29 PM | Link to this

G money, I was sitting right there in section 112 when Joe Johnson threw his shoulder into Raja Bell and got the blocking call allowing him to shoot free throws.

Raja had been hounding Joe all night and was playing in your face defense. Raja’s hand smacked Joe in the side of the face right in front of the ref. Joe looked at the ref and the ref let the play go. So Joe retaliated by throwing the hard shoulder into Bell. Luckily, the ref saw what made joe mad and made the call in Joe’s favor.

By FeudFinder

November 8, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this

Is Jessica related to T.Moore? They seem to both share the same views about the hawks.

By reese

November 8, 2007 7:33 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if the TV broadcast showed Acie Law going up to Josh Smith and talking about a Joshe’s badly missed shot from the outside. I don’t think that Josh appreciated Acie doing that. Especially, when Acie missed a layup on the very next series.

By infamouskrs

November 8, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this

the nice thing is the team is spreadin’ tha ball….. swing to who’s hot……you have to find the “sparkplug”…and let em’ roll…………………..

By G Money

November 8, 2007 8:23 PM | Link to this

Reese, I was right beside you in 113. I saw the smack in the mouth as well along with the no call. I think D’Antoni saw it all too. Bell has perfected the art of harrassment and knows exactly how much he can get away with. You don’t like it, but you wish the guy played for your team.

By mykhalc

November 8, 2007 8:24 PM | Link to this

REESE, you are killin’ me with JS!!LOL either i’m interpretin’ it wrong, or you think ACIE shouldn’t get on JS’ case when his shot selection is bad/suspect when ‘somewhere’ in the game ACIE might, heaven forbid, make a mistake too!!!???!!! misinterpret, right???? if not, then the JS koolaid has got you a little skewed!!!!!

By ray

November 8, 2007 8:28 PM | Link to this

Man what a good win..and what a relief. I wanted so badly to see these guys get a win against Phoenix. A few things I noticed:

Salim: nice to see ya little fella. He was great coming in there and keeping the speed of the game up, not to mention snipering here and there. A real difference maker and had a great attitude. He was ready coming in this time, not nervous and herky-jerky.

Marvin: Quickly becoming the second/third scoring option on this team. He has the jumper (it’s so beautiful) and now seems to have the health and the confidence to go with it. Wow! was that 12 boards he got? Also, his offense helps us tremendously when we are forced into the half court set. Someone to help out when JJ gets doubled and tripled. This is especially important.

Al: don’t sleep on his offense. The guy is tough and knows how to score inside. But plays don’t get run for him, so he gets what he can get for now. His incredible rebounding and very solid defense are enough for the moment though. And don’t forget, this cat can run the floor quite well…

Josh: well look what happens when the 22-foot clangers are replaced by somewhat awkward-but effective repeated drives to the basket. Nearly %50 shooting and better production! Still a stat stuffer and hustling nearly all the time. Please keep driving…they can’t stop you. And how about that ‘D’ on Nash late in the game?

Marioooooooo West! Absolutely the most intense 2 minutes and 18 seconds of defense the Suns have faced since last season in the playoffs. I guarantee it. I LIKE this guy.

JChill: take him off the milk and orange juice cartons. We found him..or perhaps he found himself.

Woody: still gets those dumbfounded looks. Natural, I guess. But he’s got something going on at the moment. Let’s see just how good of a relationship he has fostered when times get a bit rough. Still, hard to bash a man when you see some good plays being executed.

By ray

November 8, 2007 8:39 PM | Link to this

KEN, for the love of Pete…

The idea behind the “size” issues is simple. Phoenix is so good at playing their game, that size isn’t nearly as big a deal for them. Sure,when they face larger teams that can slow them down and force them to play differently (like the Spurs) then it can be troublesome. Otherwise, it’s their running/gunning style that sets them apart. And most teams can’t stop them from doing what they do.

We weren’t sure that we’d be able to run like that, or that Woody would really let it happen. Knowing his penchant for the half-court offense, some of us reasoned that larger low post players are needed (which is nearly always the case in the half court set). That’s where the issue is rooted. Many of us expected Woody to cave after one loss or two and go right back to grind-it-out basketball. To do that and be halfway successful, you gotta have bigger bodies.

However, in the first 4 games of the season, we’ve run each game (and done so for more time in the game than we expected) and it has worked. That, and Horford is better than advertised on the boards, Josh is getting his share, Chill is back to form, JJ helps out, and Marvin has improved in this area. We just beat arguably the best running team at their own game.

When all these things are happening, the size situation is all but forgotten…until a team beats you down by slowing you up and making you play a half court game. Then quickness and ball movement will help, but size can be a huge factor as well. However, if you refuse to give in, it’s not so bad. ‘Tis a test of wills. And it’s never bad to have the option of going bigger if/when you need to.

Quit trying to start old fights back up, you clown…

By TheRick

November 8, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this

Alright, the afterglow is finally wearing off. I must admit I’m a little intimidated by what the Celts have been throwin down. Who y’all got starting tomorrow and how do we handle KG? Can Al take him on with help from JS? I think that might be our best bet, but I’m a little worried KG will take Horford outside where he won’t be comfortable.

By HB Ando

November 8, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Before I offer some observations from last nights game (and more gratefulness for Jhan and his awesome seats), I want to address TB’s ridiculous post, directed at me last night.

First of all, if you’ve really been waiting a year and a half to call me out, you need to get a hobby. Secondly, your post is quite possibly the most illogical position I’ve ever encountered (not to mention borderline illiterate):

“His assertion was that BK was an incompetant GM. He said the JJ trade was a bad trade. He said that the result would be that they would play just good enough last year to lose out on thier pick thereby de-railing the whole re-building projet.

He tried to emit this hypothesis as a factual argument. I told him that his argument didn’t work, that he was building it on a faulty premis (or two).

Now it turns out that he was wrong. BK’s gamble paid-off. We got the pick, he swung another (Acie) and we got a team.”

So, TB, what you’re saying is that it was Billy’s master plan to be so bad, last year (and this plan would have had to have been initiated when the Johnson trade was first made) that we would keep a top-3 pick. And when the ping pong ball saved his sorry a*, by bestowing a statistically unlikely outcome, it was actually evidence of his skill? Wow. That’s arguably the stupidest thing anyone has ever posted here.

Getting the third pick, and having Indy’s pick slot in at 11, were pure luck. I’ve said many times that the irony of Billy’s failings is that he’s been so consistently bad that we now have a line up of lottery picks. The truth of the matter is that if Indy had slipped into a top-10 pick, and if we hadn’t completely lucked up with moving back into the top-3, we’d have had NO draft picks last summer.

Confusing some extremely good fortune for Billy being a skilled GM is nothing short of comical. And taking this sequence and suggesting that it nullifies my ongoing position on Billy’s incompetence is even funnier.

You might want to wait until the end of the season before gloating without an outcome. We’re 2-2. Last year we started 4-1, and ended up with 30 wins. We just beat a team without it’s 1st Team All-NBA big man. And while there are no asterisks for wins, the idea that we were just as likely to have won if Amare played is shaky at best.

If you want to pat yourself on the back, and tell yourself, and anyone who will listen, that you’ve put me in my place, feel free (after waiting a year and a half, I actually feel pretty sorry for you, and want to you to enjoy this special moment).

Now, onto some observations:

By Steve T

November 8, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

I know a lot of people questioned why Marvin was pick number 2. “He’s averaging 17.8 points, tied for second on the team with Smith, 6.0 rebounds and 2.3 assists. He’s also shooting a wicked .605 (26-of-34) from the floor and showing signs of the special talent that so many people saw after his freshman season on North Carolina’s NCAA title-winning team.”

I know earlier in the year, I compare Marvin’s shooting to that of Larry Bird. I was told never to comapre Marvin to Bird. The guy is shooting 60% from the field. He needs to get at least 30 shots a game. If he could hit 60%, he would score 36 points.

BTW, it looks like Billy may know what he is doing. He has draft the best talent ever. He has not had to many missing on the talent. People let the talent pan out. Most of you wanted to get rid of Marvin. There are not players in the NBA with such a sweet stroke.

By HB Ando

November 8, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

Last night:

Props to Jhan for the seat. Props to Jhan and Doc for some great banter and company. And, as always, great to get a minute or two of face time with Sekou.

Great win and a great crowd. The Hawks simply dominated the smaller Suns, on the boards. The Suns better hope that Amare gets healthy quick, or they will be a .500 ball club without him (no Kurt Thomas to bail them out). What was really compelling was that it was the Hawks who imposed the will from a match up standpoint. What I mean is that I figured they would play Skinner more, to rebound. The fact that they didn’t means either they didn’t think they could keep up with him on the floor, or, more likely, that they figured the Hawks would fold under the pace.

Also obvious is that Barbosa doesn’t look like he’s completely recovered from the rib injury. And Nash, despite his big numbers, looks to be wearing down, with age and the back issues.

Like several folks have said, to win a game like this, with JJ going 3-17, would not have happened in the past. Smith still is having trouble coming to grips with the fact that he can’t shoot from outside. Chills finally showed.

But the biggest story, from my perspective, is Marvin Williams. If he will continue to attack the glass like that, he’ll justify the lofty expectations that folks have had since he entered the league (and please don’t anyone accuse me of changing my tune on Marvin; I’ve always maintained that my preference for Paul, from before we ever used that draft pick, was never a knock on Marvin, and I’ve always said there can be no fair comparisons between the two players as they play completely different roles).

While I have no faith that Billy will make the most out of the situation, come this summer, when the contract status of both Josh’s will create plausible sign-and-trade options, the legitimate emergence of Marvin gives this team some serious leverage with Josh Smith. I don’t anticipate changing my stance that Horford is best suited to be a star at the four, and while capable of playing the five, will have his match-up strengths limited as a five, in the long term. And I’m not changing my stance that Marvin and Josh are both best suited to play the 3.

The Hawks will have the flexibility to choose either player for the future, and use the other as a highly sought after bargaining chip in seeking out a center. As Doc, Jhan and I discussed this, at length last night, if you’re building a fantasy team, you take Josh all day. But if you could envision a team built to win, consistently (and I think that you’ll see that word associated with Marvin, more and more, as the season unfolds), the idea of Marvin and JJ, on opposing wings, both with tremendous accuracy from the outside, and Horford at the four, all you need is a legitimate defensive center. Throw in Law (and a new coach), and you’ve got something.

If (and I know this is the ongoing IF that folks want to argue about) you project Horford as a four, then one of them has to go. And the challenge of Smith, at the 3, is that this team would project as a poor outside shooting team going into the upcoming season.

It’s not so much about trying to say that either Smith or Marvin is “better” than the other. Their games are so drastically different, that comparisons are pretty pointless.

I guess the point is that if there’s a team in the league that willing to pay Smith more than the Hawks are, the Spirit are now in a position where they can use Smith for a sign-and-trade, and know that Marvin is the long-term solution at the 3. The impact of such a decision would be in acquiring a center who brings the defense and rebounding necessary to off-set the loss of Smith. The Hawks also can stretch out yet another year, before having to pay Marvin. And given the ongoing belief that this team is operating on the cheap, that may well play a role in the decisions next summer.

If you decide to roll with Smith, and his absolutely unique physical talents, then you may want to find a big man like an Okur, who provides the outside shooting that Smith doesn’t have; a guy who plays out at the top of the key, leaving the block for Horford and space for Smith’s drives.

My point is there are many ways to skin a cat. And how Billy (or, hopefully, a near-term successor) does, or fails to do, that, will be interesting to watch.

I simply don’t envision a scenario where Josh, Josh and Marvin all stay, long-term. It’s just too unlikely, from a financial standpoint.

Marvin’s rapid emergence gives the Hawks some serious flexibility, when dealing with Josh and his contract demands, next summer.

And Josh’s continued flashes of physical brilliance only enhance the chance that some team, with a legitimate, young big man, might be willing to do a sign-and-trade next summer.

I know a lot of folks hate the idea of moving Josh Smith. And I’m not saying they SHOULD. I’m saying that with both these young forwards developing into potential all-star caliber talents, they have a much better chance to parlay one of them into the legit center, that could make them competitors for the East, in the coming years.

In a slight nod to myc, who has been relentless in his desire to see Horford play the five, I don’t think the Hawks have much of a choice. They can’t keep him off the floor. I think he’s going to slam into the rookie wall (right around the mid-point, and after slamming into Howard, Shaq, Curry, Randolph, etc.). But the franchise is trying to make a statement of legitimacy, in it’s efforts to sell tickets, so a strong start, even if they run Horford out of juice by mid-season, is the most likely scenario.

And if you’re one of those folks who believes that a dominant big man is not necessary in today’s NBA, the stat of the day is that since ‘99 either Shaq or Duncan have been in EVERY NBA Finals. ‘Nuff said.

I got a message from Leo Sloss, my favorite Hawks’ ticket salesman, today. He said they sold 250 full-season tickets today, after last nights’ win. That’s exactly why they’ll run these two rookies head long into the rookie wall.

They can’t afford not to.

The excitement is refreshing. But, as Doc and others have pointed out, the idea that a 30-win team can add two rookie starters, and nothing else, and end up surging into the playoffs, is statistically unlikely.

36 wins still feels about right.

Finally, Ray, I can’t believe I forgot to bring your number with me. I was totally planning on buzzing you from the game. My bad, man. I’ll look you up sooner than later (probably when a game is on the tube).

TB, I’m still laughing at your semi-coherent rant. A year and a half? Wow.

By HB Ando

November 8, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

Steve T, no one with a clue about basketball ever questioned Marvin’s talent. They questioned the wisdom of drafting a swingman for a team that already had Al Harrington, Josh Smith and Josh Childress, when a likely superstar PG was available, and a clear need for the franchise.

I don’t see you trotting out the stat that Paul had 21 dimes a couple of nights ago, or that he’s averaging 18.6 points, 12.4 dimes, and 3.0 steals per game. If we’re just going on stats, then Paul was still the better choice. Deron Williams is averaging 22.6 points, 10 dimes, 2 3’s and is shooting 52% from the floor. Again, based on statistics, he still would have been a better choice than Marvin.

Nothing personal, but your ongoing assertions that Billy Knight has done a great job are inane and suggest you don’t have much of a clue about basketball.

By mykhalc

November 8, 2007 11:36 PM | Link to this

ANDO, tasty again bro. and i’ll take the nod no matter how slight it may be!!LOL

you summed it up, if MARVIN stays look for a defensive minded BIG to come in. if SMOOVE stays then look for an offensive-minded BIG that can play from the outside-in!! i, too, would be surprised if BK is plannin’ to build the front court long term around JS, MW, and AH!! but we are talkin’ about BK, who just pulled a rabbit outta his hat with the bounce of the ping pongs!!! he of the 6’9” concept fame!!!LOL

and the rookie wall is destiny for all the rooks, no doubt. playin’ it smart guarantees NOTHIN’ except that. playin’ to win nitely gives the team a much better chance regardless of what we think/know will happen to some of the players at a particular point in the season!!!

and that is where things like makin’ sure SOLO gets PT so he can be ready on those nights when the other players legs are just not participatin’. (REESE and CLYDE are 2 of the main cats leadin’ that parade)

like i said ANDO, i just wanna see the best unit on the floor when the tip is on!!!

By fudd21

November 8, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this

HB Ando, I think you are right on with everything you said except the number of wins. I’m thinking more like 46 but only time well tell. It has always been my thought that the reason J Smoove wasn’t resigned is because management is hoping Marvin will step his game up and become the shooter/scorer we need. I really think management would prefer to have Marvin playing the 3 and as you said it would be financially difficult to sign all 3, Josh, Josh, and Marvin. I think J Chill is the perfect glue 6 man type, plus he will be cheaper so they will resign him. So to me that leaves J Smoove out. Now regarding the wins. Several people have acknowledged that last year we wouldn’t have won if JJ went 3 of 17. What has changed?? The biggest changes have been Marvin and Al. If Marvin continues to shoot this way, it will be hard to double JJ which will open up the offense even more. Marvin is shooting 60% from the field which for a jump shooter is incredible. Now I know he looks like a 50 year old with 2 bad knees when he is walking around, but he can flat out shoot the ball. With Horford we actually have someone that can control the boards which Zaza can’t or refuses to attempt. Yes Zaza is better offensively right now but Al will continue to get better in that area, especially when he starts going up against the 4, which is what he really is, a 4. SO yes, improved play from our young veterans (particularly Marvin), 2 proven and NBA ready rookies, added maturity, and most importantly our core staying healthy will get us 46 wins and a playoff birth.

By reese

November 9, 2007 12:46 AM | Link to this

mykhalc, it just brought back memories of people who throughout the years tried to tell me that I shouldn’t do something on the court. Then, those same people go out and do something worse.

Did Josh take a bad shot, no. Did Josh make the long range shot, no, he missed it badly.

Did law take a bad shot, no. Did law make the layup, no, he missed it badly.

The difference is that Josh didn’t get up in his face and tell him about his shot.

But I will admit, I like Josh Smith never took a shot that I didn’t like. It’s a mentality baby. Sometimes you make em, sometimes you don’t.

By mykhalc

November 9, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this

TheRick, IMO i think JS plays KG and HORFORD plays PERKINS (their center). i think when KG comes down low we’ll see HORFORD or somebody help out. KG and RAY on the same side of the floor is gonna be a nightmare waitin’ to happen!!! we gotta hope that all 3 are not on and that our help defense looks like it did against PHO, ‘cause it was outstandin’!!!

the more i think about it, i don’t know that this will be any tougher than DET!!??!!DET and BOS are both veteran teams that know how to play smart ball. but DET is deeper and better defensively!!

so we gotta play up-tempo and attack. the YOUNG GUNS gotta make the vets play their style of ball!! that’s the startin’ point, at least…

By mykhalc

November 9, 2007 1:32 AM | Link to this

REESE, personally i appreciate your admission!!LOL ‘cause it’s kinda maddenin’ when i see your knowledge and appreciation of the game but yet you see NO FAULTS to JS’ game!!! and again, i know that’s your right but it can make me shake my head at the post sometimes!! LOL but it’s all good!!

i would think that more than anythin’ that was ACIE tryin’ to establish himself as a vocal leader. might not have been the most opportune time but the cat is USED TO leadin’. and that ain’t a bad thing for our team especially if the other cats respect him and his game!!

By Dee

November 9, 2007 1:40 AM | Link to this

MAN “IT’S JUST NICE TO HEAR FANS TALKING HAWKS BASKETBALL. KEEP IT UP”

By Edo River

November 9, 2007 5:14 AM | Link to this

Mr Smith Much has been said about measuring maturity in terms of playoff experience, and this cliche is rattling around on an SI NBA column now about the Hawks, but I think I have learned from you that the measure of playoff maturity is forecasted on whether or not a team holds on to a lead (mostly) in the last few minutes of the game. If they do this during the season, then they are probably playoff mature. If not then they aren’t and they probably won’t. I am thinking this is more important a predictor than the more dramatic come-from-behind wins. Also the neck and neck games don’t prove anything more than both teams are equally matched. WHEREAS the games that you shoulda win are the ones that you have the lead around the mid point of the fourth quarter, and you turn to your team and you put it in the win bank. THere isn’t a melt down under the pressure. For usually the pressure comes sometime during the early 3rd when the underdog in the fight comes out of the half with a mission to take over. Who ever withstands that and goes into the middle of the fourth with the lead, again assuming the lead change is not going back and forth, should show their playoff-maturity and put the game in their win bank.

What do you think?

By yonizzle

November 9, 2007 8:13 AM | Link to this

I am having problems with the hawks half curt offense myself. It doesn’t seem like they spread out the defense, mainly in the Suns game. If you watch the Suns play the spread the defense out allowing driving lanes and kick out passes. I think that is what hawks need to do better to be a contender in the east and give J smith the ball in post a little even if his moves look ugly.

By Krib

November 9, 2007 8:23 AM | Link to this

I have to admit,Marvin has been very impressive and when you consider he is the youngest member of the team and still has a lot of upside!!. Today will be a real test for Josh Smith.. going against Kevin. Can someone please tell Josh Smith to quit the 3 point line and go INSIDE. Josh creates more damage inside the post. Leave the 3 point line to the guards!

By Ryder

November 9, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

Great points Ando. If you look at what Atlanta has assembled, it seems to me that the major building blocks of this team are as follows: JJ, Marvin, Horford, and Law.

So where does this leave the Joshes? Unfortunately I fear that one of them will be sign and trade bait after this year. I originally thought it would be Childress, but if he decides to stay as a sixth man then the decision is easy.

However the decision on Josh Smith isn’t as easy. As you said Horford is a 4 and will get in foul trouble trying to guard bigger players at the 5 spot on a regular basis. Having a lineup with both Al and Zaza will allow him to use his strengths against other PFs, because he will definitely be able to hold his own there.

What makes it so difficult to consider moving Smoove is that night in and night out he is going to play hard. In addition he has those intangibles that makes it difficult for opponents to game plan. Take tonight for example against Boston. We all know that they will have Allen against JJ, Pierce against Marvin, and more than likely Garnett on Horford/Zaza/Shelden. Who does Boston have that can handle Smoove? Try throwing Garnett on him and watch Big Al go off uncontested. Leave him alone and he will take one of those “no,no,no…yes” kinds of shots. Not to mention he plays big on the defensive side as well.

It’s that ability to alter the game on both ends that makes him so valuable. I agree that the ONLY way to consider trading him would be to get a defensive monster at the 5 spot. Otherwise they should keep this lineup as it is. They’re developing great chemistry as a unit. It’ll be difficult to break that up without ramifications.

By Dan

November 9, 2007 9:09 AM | Link to this

I think it will be interesting to see when all the Hawks are healthy. I can forsee where we will run 2 line ups at the opposing team. Maybe also to have a 2 balance line ups where not all the stars are in one line up for example so players would also get their shots. Where we could continuosly run and possibly each lineup would play 5 to 6 minutes before switching to the other.

1st line up
Center ZAZA PACHULIA Power Forward SHELDEN WILLIAMS Small Forward JOSH SMITH Shooting Guard JOE JOHNSON Point Guard SPEEDY CLAXTON

2nd line up Center LORENZEN WRIGHT Power Forward AL HORFORD Small Forward MARVIN WILLIAMS Shooting Guard JOSH CHILDRESS Point Guard ACIE LAW

Then thow in Salim for some 3’s / Solomon to do some rebounding/ LUE for just some inspiration or motivation but from what I have seen everytime he plays some extending minutes we lose our lead. He is just to short cant stop the shot of an opposing player. Put Mario and Anthony Johnson in when we want some extra defense……

By roan st

November 9, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

When we need to go big why not use this lineup: jj @ point, marvin, smoove, horford, zaza. I know jj is not a true point but this lineup gives us a better chance against bigger teams. Of course this lineup would only be used when absolutely neccessary. Acie is still trying to find his way so this lineup might not be bad to use against some of the bigger frontcourt teams. Of course when substitutions are made jj can slide back over and play the 2 spot. What do ya’ll think about this lineup?

By Aaron

November 9, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

Is there any chance that Speedy is contemplating retirement?

By A Thinking Fan

November 9, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

HB, Doc, mykhalc, AJ, & others - ALL GOOD STUFF!

mykhalc do u work during the day? LOL! Love your energy & spirit!

GO HAWKS!

By Astro Joe

November 9, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this

I heard Bernie again this morning. He really is a pretty arrogant SOB. But I digress.

He said that the Hawks will pay Smith and are hoing that he has a terrific season. While he said they would match any offer, he also stated that they will not overpay. So i take that as meaning that they will be willing to overpay a little but not a lot to keep Smith.

He also indicated that “Speedy will not be ready to play anytime soon”. But provided no specifics about his injury.

By FeudFinder

November 9, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

Are we ever going to stop all these draft Paul or Deron chants? Mistakes were made! Mistakes had been rectified! We should throw our weights behind this young fellow (The Law). There is a new air in the atmosphere. If you don,t like to breathe it, then close your nose please. Go Hawks!!!

By G Money

November 9, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

Hey I’ve got one for you guys who think that we need a really big, big. At the end of the season, BK packages ZaZa, Speedy’s contract, and something else for a starter. We don’t need anyone else’s back-ups. Our guys do better than their back ups already. A starting center could make a difference if someone were willing to let him go.

Otherwise, we could always try to rip Randolph Morris from the Knicks. He doesn’t seem like he’s gonna get any burn there.

Personally, I’ll stick with the same statements that I’ve made over the last year or so right here: the Hawks will be fine with the talent that they have if they play the right style of ball that maximizes the strengths of the talent at hand (offensively and defensively).
For example, on defense, the Hawks might need to go to a zone on occasion. Det/NJ did it against us and it was supremely effective. Without the big payrolls, you can forget about matching up man for man with the 2 or 3 teams in this league that include Dwight/Rashard or Curry/Randolph or maybe Duncan/Oberto.

By Eric

November 9, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

Let me give all you some info on ZaZa, he was in the top five in the entire N.B.A. in offensive rebounds. You can almost pencil him in for 12-15 points per game every night. He is the Hawks only low post player, I am excited to know he may play friday. Go Hawks!!

By smartguy

November 9, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Marvin has been awesome this year, and I don’t see why he can’t shoot 55-60% on the year. When JJ gets doubled, Marvin seems to get a lot of open jumpers, which he rarely misses.

People were goo goo and ga ga over Durant this year, but after watching Marvin this season, I think he’s a pretty good equal to KD. The one thing Marvin may lack is that killer scorer’s attitude, but then again, he was the sixth man in college, and has never been healthy his first two years here. I think we may just be seeing the tip of the iceberg with this guy. He’s just as big as KD, and is much thicker and stronger. May not be quite as athletic, but does have a good verticle, which makes his jumper almost impossible to block. And Marvin seems more dedicated to rebounding this season.

I, for one, have been very concerned about keeping Smooth around for the long run, but what about Marvin? I know he was drafted the year after Smooth and Chills, but I think that was also the year rookie contracts were also changed (shortened). I would be much more concerned with keeping Marvin than Chills, but Smooth is still my #1.

You put Horford, Smooth, Marvin, and JJ together long term, and that is an awesome group. They all have great size, and can all do just about everything on the court. Mismatches? We ought to have at least one or two in our favor on most nights. I still say that we’re lacking a quality coach capable of utilizing mismatches, but that’s a different story.

Tonights game is huge. Matching KG’s intensity is going to take a team effort; the guy is scary nuts. Go Hawks: PLAY LIKE YOUR HAIR’S ON FIRE!!!

By Traceman

November 9, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Ando, I think we absolutely can (and SHOULD) keep the core of JJ, Smoove, Marvin, Chillz, Horford and Law together long term. The one thing that BK has done EXTREMELY well is manage our salary cap. We can resign Smoove to a deal starting at $11M a season next year and resign Chillz to a deal starting at $7M a season and STILL be under the cap next year. That is the great thing about having Lorenzen, T Lue and AJ all expiring next year.

While we may lose a Shelden or a Zaza down the road to create enough space to keep Marvin, Chillz and Smoove together, those 3 guys’ skills are what will make us special. Zaza and Shelden are more easily replaceable than any of those 3.

By mykhalc

November 9, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

ATF, independently wealthy bro!!!LOL ok maybe not!! musician my friend. so actually your observation is pretty close!!LOL

GO YOUNG GUNS!!!!

By Clyde

November 9, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe you said, “He said that the Hawks will pay Smith and are hoing that he has a terrific season. While he said they would match any offer, he also stated that they will not overpay. So i take that as meaning that they will be willing to overpay a little but not a lot to keep Smith.”

Did he say something about overpaying for Speedy Claxton and Lorenzen Wright?

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By doc

November 9, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this

roan, i have long awaited something like that and started mentioning it months ago. chill would fit as well as acie, so our big lineup has about 7 possibilites this year depending on the match ups from the other team. i wonder how horford will look alongside of smash and zaza. he can bound and the other two can go more from the outside as in zaza and smash from outside to the inside. i think that was the point that acie was driving home, stay with what works and the game plan. he just needs that reminder occasionally.

By Cali OG

November 9, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

Wanted to share with the Blog Zeophytes an e-mail I just sent to NBA headquarters: Greetings — long time fan of the NBA/Atlanta Hawks. My question is why no Hawks games scheduled for TNT or ESPN coverage? One of the league’s most exciting up and coming teams featuring an All-Star, a slam-dunk champion, two prominant rookies including an NCAA two-time champion and All-American point guard, emerging star Marvin Williams and other intriguing players. Instead, we get a steady diet of the same teams, including those such as the Kings (tonight) who have not been one of the elite who are somewhat understandably regularly featured. Is it all advertisement and/or network driven, unimaginative shortsided unfair elitism, or is it fans in the seats? Incidentally, our only two home games thus far have been sellouts. I conclude by suggesting that the national NBA viewership would have loved to see a Hawks-Celtics match-up tonight…

By HB Ando

November 9, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

Trace, Josh isn’t going to sign for $11 million. Not when his peers have turned that money, or more, down (Deng turned down $57.5/5, Gordon $50/5 and Okafor reportedly $65/5, while Jefferson took the year-early discount, and an honest, public self-assessment that he hadn’t done enough in the league to ask for the max, taking $65/5 years). And you’re forgetting that Marvin will be up for a similar contract the following summer.

In fact, the only good thing about wasting the #5 on Shelden is that he’s not going to command much in the market place, and may be re-signable as the career back-up PF he’s always projected to be.

I don’t accept that the math works to keep all 3 (Josh, Josh and Marvin). Not when Marvin and Smith essentially play the same position. Folks might not know it from my posts, but I’m here less frequently because I DON’T like beating a dead horse. But always find folks willing to stoke an old fire (like Steve T saying that Marvin’s numbers NOW justify his selection over Paul-if you don’t want to hear about Paul, quit pumping the Marvin pick now that he’s emerging nicely).

Trace, it’s the Shelden and Zaza-type players that will remain relatively affordable, and be required to balance out the salary structure of the team. The only way you keep Smith and Marvin is if you let someone take Chills. Because either Chills is going to stay here and be the sixth man, and make some where in the vicinity of the mid-level exemption, $5+-7 million, over 5 years, or someone else in the league is going to project him as a starter, and they’ll sign him to a term sheet, this summer, for starters’ money. The Hawks cannot match starters’ money for Childress. So he becomes a sign-and-trade, as, literally, the market will determine his fate as a Hawk.

On the issue of Speedy, maybe some folks are not reading between the lines, on comments from insiders and owners. So let me be blunt: it appears pretty obvious that this team doesn’t anticipate Speedy returning to the rotation any time in the near future. And you may well be looking at a situation where the team is beginning to build a case for “unable to perform”, to either set up a buy-out, or seek insurance coverage for some of it’s financial liability.

Maybe I’m missing something, but I my read is that Speedy is no longer part of the plan for this franchise (which would only confirm that his signing was yet another Billy Knightmare).

Roan, the “big” lineup you mention is fatally flawed by an inability to stop dribble penetration by opposing point guards. There just aren’t going to be many nights where the opposing PG is someone JJ can stay in front of (and do you really want your best offensive player wearing himself out chasing a water bug?).

Smartguy, if you can find me a small forward, who’s primary attempts come from 15 feet and out, who’s maintained a FG% of 55-60%, for a full season, I’d like to know about him. Marvin has a great touch, but the idea that he’s going to maintain that level of FG accuracy is statistically unlikely (possibly impossible).

Zaza’s return either helps, or creates a crunch for front court minutes. And I think some nights it will be the former and some nights the latter.

The Hawks imposed it’s preferred match ups on the Suns the other night. If going with Horford at the five can force the Celtics to keep Perkins on the bench, it will be a positive sign (regardless of the outcome of the game). It’s always better to force other teams to adjust to you than vice versa.

With Rondo’s quickness and athleticism (rebounding ability), the Hawks will need to play Law for major minutes tonight. Lue can’t hang with Rondo. Allen and JJ will match up, and Marvin will have a real tough match up, on both ends of the floor, with Paul Pierce. If Smoove and Horford can double team Garnett, with Horford’s agility forcing the C’s away from playing Perkins, it makes for a compelling battle.

This game is a far better barometer for the Hawks than either the Suns or the Mavs, because of the match ups, the lack of the Celtics missing any of their key players, and the fact that it’s in conference.

The early-season C’s look determined to establish themselves as the team to beat in the East. And the Hawks want to believe they are ready to compete for a playoff spot. This should give us some insight into near-term expectations. You can’t expect the Hawks to win, but keeping the margin within single-digits would be a very positive sign.

By Aaron

November 9, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

Dear Lord, forgive me for agreeing with HB Ando on something.

LOL, I think Ando is right, and I’ve been saying this for several months over at the ‘Squawk. I think the Hawks would like for Claxton to retire for medical reasons because IIRC the insurance then covers ~80% of the contract, and the final two (?) years of the contract come off the salary cap.

That’s why I asked Sekou if Claxton is mulling retirement.

By mavid

November 9, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this

Ando, I know youve scoffed at organic growth/improvement in the past. But, in this case, we are better than just “adding two rookies.”

Marvin and Smoove are playing at higher levels (Marvin signficantly more so), and even Shelly is looking better on the block (Ill give the guy credit for beasting reboudns, even if he still cant do much else).

Man, I really want a front-court of Marvin, Smoove and Horford to work in the long run. It would be entertaining as heck to watch. So athletic.

Plus, those 3 guys are VERY complementary.

But, can an undersized lineup like that work? I just dont know yet. I just dont know.

By FeudFinder

November 9, 2007 1:54 PM | Link to this

Ando, I think you are sometimes right about this basketball stuff. However, I do have a problem with you when you start using the words like can’t, won’t, etc. Last week, about ninety-nine percent of sport writers chose San Diego to win over Minnesota. But reverse was the case. Also, if history still holds, hawks defeated Phoenix at Phoenix last season I surmise. Never ever say NEVER. It is clear that the celtics is temporarily good. It does not mean it is unbeatable. The hawks MAY be the first team to handle the celtics its first loss. Let us stay away from prediction. We may all be just good at opinion.

By curious

November 9, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

Eric That stat about Zaza being in the top five is very deceiving. Most of the offensive rebounds are of his own blown layups. Zaza is not a great rebounder at all. He may have three off. rebounds per game and they all might of been on the same possesion.

By G Money

November 9, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Hey, I’m as pro-Hawks as anyone on this blog, and it will take an extraordinary effort to beat the Celtics. If the do, great. If not, and they hold it close, it will be a victory for me.

As for cap space, salaries and re-signing our players, it is going to be difficult to resign everyone particularly if there are some others out there who could be even better pieces. The Hawks are trying desperately to fill up the Arena. They need the incremental cash to ante up this summer. They know that. They also know that if the Hawks keep winning, basketball starved fans like myself will break down and get at least a small season ticket package. This helps them count their dollars for the season and plan for next year. Butts in seats will also allow them to raise some rents and price of some sponsorships. Winning gets more TV revenue coming in. It’s all going to be necessary for next summer.

If you think Woody is on a short leash, think again. They’ve got him by the collar. If those guys have to continue to battle with Belkin and it doesn’t go their way, they are not just bleeding but losing limbs.

By earldaddy

November 9, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

Anybody notice? Marvin Williams has evolved into a younger, way less expensive version of Rashard Lewis of the Magic. Good for us!

By JerryWest

November 9, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

How can they hang with a deep fast team like us?

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/teams/stats?team=bos

This is their bench today:

House 8 ppg @ 0.381 Scalabrine 4.7 ppg @ 0.400 Big baby Davis 1.5 ppg @ 0.333 Tony Allen 2.7 ppg 0.375

Rondo and Pakins, their 4th and 5th player.

Pollard & Posey out with injury

By JerryWest

November 9, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Info on Speedy Claxton:

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=261042&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#261042

Medical information is confidential. It can’t be disclosed without the patient’s consent. The team is entitled to know it, but they can not reveal a word of it without authorization from the patient. At this point, Speedy no doubt has no interest in having his medical condition revealed to the press and public; he is laying as low as he can and does not want to discuss it. No one who has never experienced having their personal matters debated in public and on the airwaves can know how unpleasant that is.

I’m not a doctor, but I did stay at a Hol. Inn Express, so here is the lowdown on Speedy’s condition:

Speedy now listens only to the Orthopod in Vancouver, or wherever that was, who properly diagnosed and surgically repaired his knee this offseason. When the other knee became inflamed a few weeks ago, Speedy went back to him. He told S. that there are only 2 alternatives: rest (and hope) and surgery. Surgery might well end his season. So he is going to try rest, probably for about 6 to 8 weeks, and then gradually try to work himself back. If that doesnt’ work, he’ll have the surgery and we’ll see him next year.

The players said it was obvious Speedy had worked hard this offseason, and he was in great shape and really impressive on the court at the beginning of camp. I personally have no reason to see him as a slacker. He’s had a frustrating experience, with big setbacks, a la Mike Hampton (who is really eating up some salary). He’s universally vilified for it, unlike Mike. Don’t expect him to supply the frenzy with any more fresh meat in the form of current medical information anytime soon.

By jhan

November 9, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Reese, would you have a problem with Salim trying to post up every play? Or would it be alright because he might make 1 out of 10? Sometimes a bad shot is a bad shot.

By HB Ando

November 9, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Feud, fair enough. But it wouldn’t be a blog if it didn’t contain hyperbole and bluster……

Jerry, I suspect they’ll hang with us just find, based on what they did to Denver the other night. Surely you’re not suggesting that our talent has eclipsed the likes of Iverson, ‘Melo and Camby?

But, it’s all good, because, as folks say, if they played these games on paper, what would be the point of watching?

And as far as San Diego, of the NFL goes, do you think LT is missing Marty-ball these days? How does Norv Turner keep getting head coaching jobs??!!!

By jhan

November 9, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Ando, there really is no explanation why Norv is a head coach.

By mykhalc

November 9, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

curious, on point about ZAZA’s offensive reb stats.

just a gut feelin’ here…look for LUE to be the odd man out tonite. AJ gets burn sub’n for ACIE (agree with ANDO about ACIE mins tonite, gotta stay outta foul trouble tho) with SALIM seein’ continued mins due to his performance the other nite. i think WOODSON realizes that when SALIM’s shot is on then he ‘HAS’ to find a way to get him on the court…IMHO

By JerryWest

November 9, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Here is one very reliable guy said after he watched Boston Denver game:

Actually just the first quarter. That was all i needed to see.

Right before tipoff the Boston announcers were saying that the Denver players admitted that they they ran out of gas against NY the night before. They had a 10 pt lead in the 4th and lost.

They were playing their 3rd game in 4 nights and it showed, just like it showed with JJ’s shooting last night. Heinson was making fun of Denver even in the first quarter. 18 of Bostons first 25 pts were in the paint.

Once when Pierce cut to the basket and caught a pass for a layup Heinson said “Melo didn’t even bother to wave at him”. Another time he said all you had to do was move the ball against Denver’s “porous defense” and you were going to get an easy look.

Denver was turning it over left and right also. Iverson had a pass that would make Smith proud, heaving it into the 5th row.

In other words their victory can’t be taken as a sign they are that strong. Sure they beat up on the Wizards too but they are shooting like crap. Jamison is shooting 30% and Arenas is shooting 33% so far.

I watched Boston against Toronto and wasn’t impressed. I think they really just haven’t been tested yet and the Hawks definitely have. I am not predicting victory but as long as we don’t have any offensive disasters (3-17) i think we play them tough.

By Khao$

November 9, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

I agree with other “bloggist.” If the Hawks don’t beat Boston tonight, people don’t need to go overboard, proclaim that this team isn’t a playoff team (the way some did after the Detroit game), and lose hope. At this early stage of the season, we need to look for competitive showings every night. We’ve done that thus far. I hope people don’t start slitting their wrist if we don’t win. Hopefully, will pull it out

By mykhalc

November 9, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this

i still think DET was/is more of an ‘overall’ test than BOS despite the BIG 3 (and i’m a big KG fan). BOS will try to run some which the HAWKS would welcome. DET just makes the HAWKS do ‘everything’ they do NOT wanna do. that and the addition that DET’s defense is second to none, just makes them a tougher opponent!!

another question i have is, how will the YOUNG GUNS handle the BOS crowd??? is it game time yet???LOL

By Lil E

November 9, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

We match up well with their big three. Joe on Ray, Marvin on Pierce, and Josh on KG. If Josh can stay in KG’s face, he’ll be able to keep KG from dominating the game. Now would really be a good time for Josh to have a good game from the field. Marvin will have to use his length to challenge the stronger, but smaller Pierce. I can see Al Horford getting a double double tonight. Let’s see how Law does against another young PG. I can’t wait. Go Hawks! We’ll be 3-2..

By honest_abe

November 9, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

jsmith won’t be let go. period. he’s a hometown kid who is still maturing as a person and a player… not to mention he has an unlimited ceiling. you don’t let a player like that get away from a franchise building as well as marketing point of view. smith imo opinion is the cornerstone of this franchise even more so than jj.

how sweet would a win be in boston? drooling just thinking about it.

By Astro Joe

November 9, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

Ando, I don’t buy that barometer nonsense, not when/if our starting center is playing his first game after missing the past 3 weeks. And not when it is a November game. Tonight will simply be a tough game against a very difficult opponent. And I kind of doubt that those teams who have already been blown away by the Celtics (Nets as an example) are packing up their duffle bags and heading home for the remainder of the season.

Some of you guys need to recognize that some ideas are good but the execution can go wrong. Deciding to take your significant other to a critically acclaimed restaurant is a very good idea. If the server you get is bad or the steak is over-cooked or the wine is putrid, it doesn’t invalidate the idea, it was just bad execution. I supported the signing of a pass-first, defense oriented PG who had played on winning teams. Even with a history of injuries and lack of starter’s experience, we had Lue who was clearly a favorite of our coach. While platoons are not as prevalent in the NBA as baseball, they can work. Not to mention playing JJ for 5-8 minutes at PG wouldn’t be the worse thing ever. Anyway, I still think that Speedy was a better option than Marcus Banks or Mike James (neither of whom has worked out with the team that signed them that summer). A year and 4 games after signing Speedy, we still need to pass-first, defensive oriented PG.

By HawksFan

November 9, 2007 6:11 PM | Link to this

I’m under the belief that this is a 50-win team…and I’m also under the belief that I just may be overly optimistic.

But after reading comments by opposing players, such as Steve Nash and Jerry Stackhouse, and hearing comments from coaches like, Avery Johnson and Mike D’Antoni about how much trouble, chaos, and havoc this team can cause when they play with high energy.

My only concern is will they bring every night against lesser opponents, and will they stick to their run-n-gun mentality when an older, more veteran-laden team like a DET, NJ, or MIA attempts to slow them down into a half-court offense/defense…

Young teams tend to lack concentration, which tends to lead to mistakes…if this team can avoid that obstacle of shooting themselves in the foot and if Mike Woodson can keep the most effective rotations going, I don’t see why 50-wins is out of the realm of possibiltiy…

But now that I think about it, those are a lot of “ifs…” and if ‘ifs and buts were candy and nuts, then everday would be Christmas…’

By Ken Strickland

November 9, 2007 6:26 PM | Link to this

Sorry RAY, I didn’t mean to get your boxers in a twist, hee hee. At least you recognize that style of play can be a factor in the size of your team. We proved last yr, and the 1st meeting this yr, that we can run with the Suns and overpower them on the boards. The Suns have proven they can successfully outrun size. However, you were right about the playoffs, everything slows down and size can then be a factor.

I can’t wait for tonights gm to start. The Hawks won 30gms last yr. This yr, we will win a lot of the close gms we lost last yr. Whether you want to admit it or not, BK has done a good job judging talent. He has done it under trying circumstances. He obviously didn’t draft certain players some of you would have preferred. However, he has certainly drafted some outstanding talent. The only player he’s drafted that didn’t stick was a SF named Donta Smith. GOOD LUCK AGAINST BOSTON TONIGHT HAWKS.

By jhan

November 9, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

50 wins? I don’t think you can brew Kool-Aid strong enough for that!

By Ramon

November 9, 2007 7:27 PM | Link to this

If the Hawks can play .500 ball against play off teams and .750 against lottery teams, 50 isn’t an unrealistic goal (barring severe injuries). Do I think it will happen? NO!!! They have the talent and all, I just have to see them ‘BRING IT’ with the energy at least 70 games this season to make that happen. If they go into Christmas with less than 10 losses, and becomes ‘the thing’ for Atlanta, then they’ll be in good shape.

By Glutton for Punishment

November 9, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

I need JSmith to play like Dennis Rodman. Grab the rebound, get the blocks but don’t shoot the ball !!

By Astro Joe

November 9, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

Sekou, how do you go from starting the season as the PG for a team, leave for the birth of your first child, and then come back and can’t earn a second of pt when you’re back with the team?

By randy

November 9, 2007 9:34 PM | Link to this

What the hell is wrong with Joe Johnson??? He can’t hit the ocean from a boat right now. And TLue just sucks, what is he even doing in there?? And if I see Josh Smith shoot one more 3pointer or long jump shot I am gonna throw my TV out the window. I think Childress invented an invisible potion cuz he is nowhere to be found. Forget about the Highlight Factory, this team is the “Turnover Factory”. It is pretty sad when Garnett out rebounds your entire team and he sat out most of the second quarter!! I thought ZAZA was back, where is he?? Put in the Sniper, we need points, points, points. OK I will go take my meds.

By Wink from Lithonia

November 9, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

That noise you hear is Josh Smith shooting bricks this season. Please someone who can get word to Josh please, please stop shooting that silly jump shot!!!! Mid 4th quarter against Boston 3-13.

Either he can stop shooting that sorry jump shot or kiss that extension goodbye. I believe it was a very good idea not to tie our franchise up to this guy with a multi year extension.

What about a trade for Kobe while his value is over rated. Send JJ, Josh Smith, Sheldon, Lorenzen & AJ for Kobe????

By doc

November 9, 2007 9:53 PM | Link to this

i know it is only one game, but can you say OVERMATCHED?

put the kool aide up, got to go back to work folks. it wont come that easy.

somehow have to get something positive out of this one, any suggestions?

By Astro Joe

November 9, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

OUCH

By HB Ando

November 9, 2007 10:03 PM | Link to this

Joe, guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Very few teams are coming out of the gate trying to make a statement. Boston and Atlanta happen to be two of those teams. Arenas was just quoted as dismissing Washington’s 0-4 start.

And Boston doesn’t have a legit center right now, anyway, so I have a hard time swallowing Zaza as the difference (especially when you discounted Amare’s absence as a determining factor in our win over the Suns the other night).

I think this outcome gives the Hawks a very good barometer of what they’ll have to do to consistently compete with the upper echelon of the Eastern Conference.

I think it also makes it pretty clear that Boston is serious about coming out of the East.

I said it would be good enough if we just kept the loss to single digits. Losing by 23 just makes me more comfortable in my assessment of the Hawks.

By A-ville Ranger

November 9, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

This is still an interesting bunch of players but not a team.They don’t have a pg anywhere close being playoff caliber (yet ??).They don’t have a reliable go to guy and they can’t shoot.If Smith gets a contract offer any time soon the entire management team should be fired.The guy can’t shoot a lick and he’s too dumb to know it.He’s young and could wake up but giving him a contract before he proves he can be efficient for most of a season would be unwise imo.

By HB Ando

November 9, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

Amazing how quiet it is here, post-game, after a tail whipping.

Just sayin’.

By MJ3

November 9, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Doc,

I’ll take you up on that - Horford looked real good tonight, and he had KG defending him for much of the night.

By mykhalc

November 9, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

well alrighty then!!!LOL

DOC, my take is BOS did exactly what they’ve doin’…killin’ their opponent regardless of who it’s been. i’m not surprised at a loss but i didn’t think the whippin’ would be that bad!! just goes what smart, unselfish, focused on team ball NBA ALL-STAR vets can make a young team look like. and especially against young players that have been playin’ together a whoppin’ 5 games!!!

this is a team right now that will win on hustle, energy, and will need a big games from multiple players in different categories. this team will lose when it has to execute a half-court offense the majority of the nite. they just don’t have the feel for it…yet.

and if you don’t think home court is a BIG thing for this team now then be sure to check out the game on sun against WAS. or if that is not a big enough test for ya tune into the game against the SPURS.

how’s that for NOT trippin’ about the outcome of the BOS game?????????

By reese

November 9, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

I missed the game tonight, but it doesn’t sound like it was that exciting. Looks like KG dominated and everyone for Boston was hitting their shots. KG consistently puts up the numbers that we hope Josh Smith will someday consistently produce.

Eddie house 7 for 10 (Ouch). I sure we didn’t expect that.

I’m sure a lot of our post shots were altered by KG and Perkins. That would make JS, Al and Childress drift away to take outside shots. Am I wrong.

Jhan, if salim was 1 for 10 in the post, then I’d say that he better keep practicing until he gets it right.

By Harry Hawk

November 10, 2007 2:17 AM | Link to this

Acie Law has to be more aggressive with the basketball. That will come in time. Until then, Josh Smith has to stop shooting jumpers. He can dish the rock pretty well when he drives to the basket, so that’s a plus. Marvin seems to understand that taking the ball to the hoop is the remedy that is needed. I think the Hawks will be fine. Joe’s not shooting it well, T-Lue is working himself into shape, and the rotation isn’t even set. I’d rather take an a*-whipping with the team being in the shape it is right now, dissect the film, and then learn from it than get beat like that in Game 50.

By jc_dawg

November 10, 2007 4:30 AM | Link to this

Here are some interesting stats….

Hawks are 2-3 against teams with a combined record(not including the games against Atl) of 18-3.

All games…with the exception of the Boston game…were reasonably close.

The next 4 teams the Hawks face have a combined record of 5-16.

Bottom line…Hawks are better than the 2-3 record at this point.

Time will tell but 40-45 wins and a playoff birth is possible.

By travis

November 10, 2007 5:58 AM | Link to this

JC those are some great facts!! Thanx! Listen, the Boston game was proof that we need a true veteran scorer, to make it deep into the playoffs. Yeah, we will probably make the playoffs as a 7th or 8th seed, but we will be going against Boston or Detroit and you know that playoff bball is a totally diff. game. We would get swept in the 1st round. Please make a trade before Feb. trade deadline. A package of Smoove, Chills, ZaZa, and AJ for ???

By Samuel

November 10, 2007 7:50 AM | Link to this

Hopefully nobody here is disappointed with the loss to arguably the best team in the NBA right now, at their place. I’m sure not. We were just outmanned, plain and simple.

What I am dissappointed with is the play of JJ. He’s supposed to be our stud and he’s not looking good at all. I think Cuz said it a few blogs back.

Body language He really looks like a very moody person. He lets his frustrations of not shooting well carry over to his whole game.

He really needs to step it up and if he’s not happy here, we should be able to get some a serious player or two for him.

I’m just say’n.

By doc

November 10, 2007 7:57 AM | Link to this

it all says, not ready for prime time players … just yet.

remember, we led the league in blowouts last year. unfortunately, we were at the losing end. i guess we can say we have had this discussion before.

anyone see yi’s numbers last night? yes, very similar to horford. thought then and now is yi CAN shoot from the outside, come inside and would have created nightmares for the the other team in matchup. it also would force smash to stay where he is best, down under rather than thinking that he can shoot the outside shot. horford does not give us the big that can go outside, good yes but not that dimension. balance is important, no? best in life and basketball, right myk?

wow, did we also see problems in defending the perimeter with house and pierce just drilling it and garnett working the inside, or how the ball moved around the perimeter by the celts to the open man who plugged it or drove smoothly to the basket? nice showing last night by the celts. whereas they just packed it in close and the hawks couldnt answer to force them to change their defense.

i guess the earlier comments before the game of some “expert” not being impressed with the celts makes them really off base and the celts really are that good or this hawks team even worse. time will tell, still early. as far as it is only the fifth game for our hawks playing together, much the same can be said for the celts. and before you say it is because they have the vets that is self incriminating because that has been a huge argument for so many for so long about what to expect and how far this team can go. please just don’t make that argument and then say this is a fifty win team or even one that can make the playoffs.

By Glutton for Punishment

November 10, 2007 7:59 AM | Link to this

FROM THE BOSTON GLOBE NEWSPAPER

Pierce said before the game he expected the Celtics to have a “really ready mentality,” but still had some concerns about Atlanta.

“The scariest thing about this team or any team is a team with no identity,” Pierce said. “You really don’t know what to expect. We play Jersey [tonight]. We expect [Jason] Kidd, RJ [Richard Jefferson], and Vince [Carter], those guys, to get the ball and try to have big games. You know what they are going to do.

“You got a team like the Atlanta Hawks … they don’t have an identity right now. Those are the teams that can sneak up on you.”

………….. “They want to do so well. I told them the one thing that we can never do is complaining, complaining to refs, don’t get into it with the other team. We just have to keep our focus. I thought we did that in the second half.”

….. Marc J. Spears

THIS IS THE SAME THING WE NEED TO TELL J SMITH (AGAIN). RIGHT NOW HE IS NOT J SMOOVE TO ME.

By doc

November 10, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this

samuel if you dont close your eyes then you will see that jj cant do it all by himself and that is what he was left with last night. it was three against one and he will lose every time. he is the paul pierce look alike from last year dude. the other guys didnt really step up with offense and certainly not with defense. he had 16 points on 3 for 5 from the 3 point stripe, 5 steals and 5 assists to go with only three to’s. we cant criticize him for wanting or taking the ball and forcing the shot and not relying on the team to develop then turn around and ask where is he when he was one of the few that had solid numbers across the board. we had nothing off the bench last night and NO double doubles instead of the four and close to five d2’s we had against the suns whose best big is a guy i think, no, know that ando could take underneath in marks.

gfp, my thoughts exactly just shut up and play, leave the sheed act alone. smash doesnt quite yet have the game for it and that is the only part of sheed’s game i dont like. it doesnt make smash any better of a player.

By Samuel

November 10, 2007 8:28 AM | Link to this

Doc,

You know i’m watching my boy Yi seriously. I think we did get a definate stud in Horford but I think Yi will turn out to be a player on the level of a Dirk with more athleticism.

Me, I would have followed the money myself.

1.3 Billion people 10.2 Trillion GDP 461 million cell phones 137 million internet users 400 million TV’s

They say the game last night Yao Vs Yi drew 150 million viewers.

By A Thinking Fan

November 10, 2007 8:30 AM | Link to this

Doc Don’t overlook MR! He takes a lot of pressure off YI! I know him from his HS & AAU days. Straight-up baller. YI’s in a good situation being with a nice guy like Mike…

By A Thinking Fan

November 10, 2007 8:33 AM | Link to this

Has anyone notice AH production to time on court?

By A Thinking Fan

November 10, 2007 8:38 AM | Link to this

Sam that is what I wrote one of the Spirit owners about - YI’s marketability! Show me the MONEY!!!

By doc

November 10, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this

yeah samuel mind boggling; it was hard to think that he was not going to bring some really new and important stuff for this organization including the presence of a dirk plus because i dont think he will shy away from contact. short sidedness in my humble opinion, like horford a lot but not at five and he cant go outside and we still need a big and a point guard that can dish and shoot or more balance which yi provided. like garnet sid they still are trying to fugure out who and what they are, east coast or west coast and flounder when in doubt.

atf they compliment each other the way marvin and jj would have with yi as our “small lineup or at any other time yi would have complimented jj who obviously doesnt have his stroke back, just yet. heck, yi is just going to be easier to see on the wing and get it to than anyone else.

By Steve T

November 10, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

I have something to say. Marvin need to get more shots. The man is shooting over 60% from the field. We need to take advantage of that. If he could do this night in and night out, he could draw a double team. Then this will free up JJ, Childress, and Salmin for the open shot.

By Doc Medock

November 10, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

Woody’s postgame comments never change. ” played harder than us tonight. We need to learn to play hard for 4 quarters.” It’s getting old Woody. At some point, he needs to take responsibility for his team’s lack of effort. This is one of the few things you can actually control.

Billy is no better than Woody. He went through countless drafts without drafting a PG. He finally took one this year but imagine how much further along we could be had he done this 2-3 years ago. Instead, we are overloaded with PF’s who can’t shoot.

J Smith is the NBA’s version of Andruw Jones. Exciting at times but too inconsistent to command the big money. Hawks should trade him and others like Sheldon “the bust” Williams for a real Center. That’s another position that Billy has avoided during his tenure.

Hawks are still the Hawks, folks. By January, Phillips will be 60% empty again.

By doc

November 10, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

hey Doc, nothing but cliches from the guy, frustrating me for years. coach non-speak.

By Astro Joe

November 10, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

Doc M, he should have been truthful… “Boston is better than us. They have built with vets who are unselfish and know how to play both ends of the floor. We were able to dictate tempo for about 16 minutes and then they locked down on us and we had no response. With a 20+ point home differential, the NBA should give them their 41 victories and only allow them to play road games”.

Ando, I think Boston is learning how to play with each other, not necessarily “make a statement” early in the season. And the Hawks can’t afford some slow ramp-up like a proven team of vets.

(I can’t wait to see a motivated Rasheed, Tayshaun, Rip and Billups face Boston… I’ve got my money on the Motor City Monsters).

I’ll have my family in tow tomorrow for the family special against Agent Zero and the winless Wizards. We got through the tough 5 game strecth with 2 wins and a relatively energized fan base. Not too bad.

By reese

November 10, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

For those of you who keep bringing up josh smith’s name in trade talks, you still don’t get it.

Josh Smith is the only Hawks player that is in the top five in two league stat categories. He is first in blocks and 4th in steals. Arguably, he is the best all around player on the hawks. Joe Johnson is not in the top 5 in any league category. Marvin is 5th in field goal pct and josh smith is tied for 1st in free throw pct.

He is the only player within the top 3 leaders among Hawk team stats. 3rd in pts, 2nd in assist, 2nd in rebs, 1st in blocks and 1st in stls.

He is a jack of all trades and master of blocks and steals.

So many of you are so focused on his shot selection and turnovers that you are ignoring the fact that he is the glue that is keeping this team close in ball games with his work in other areas. The fact that the team has the same number of turnovers in the wins and losses just goes to show that the turnovers might not be the reason we are losing.

Garnett had 6 turnovers last night and no one blinked an eye. Thats because he had double digit pts, double digit rbs, 3 blks, 6ast and a steal.

Josh Smith is not even in the top 5 in the league for turnovers. Players like Kevin Garnett, Steve Nash, Caron butler, Andre Iguodala, Kobe Bryant and Gilbert Arenas have more turnovers per game that Josh Smith. Players like Allen Iverson, Jamaal Crawford, Carlos Boozer, Gerald Wallace, Yao Ming, Carmelo Anthony and Baron Davis are right there with Josh.

I don’t hear of those teams clamouring to trade those stars players. Those star players are playing at a high intensity level, playing aggressive, forcing the action and are not afraid to make mistakes.

I’m happy that Marvin Williams is shooting 61 pct from the field and I’m happy that Josh Childress is shooting 100 pct from the free throw line.

I’m not happy that Marvin is not taking the most shots each game and that childress is not shooting the most free throws per game. They need to increase their intensity level, agressiveness, force the action and don’t be afraid to make mistakes. This in turn will balance out Josh Smith’s miscues without asking Josh Smith to reduce his intensity.

This my fellow bloggers is what will give the current hawks team any chance of making the playoffs. So lets cut back on the Josh Smith trade talk.

By Steve T

November 10, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Doc, I don;t know why everyone in the A thinks a PG will make this team that much better. Billy took the best player at the two shot which turns out to be Marvin Williams.

I know a lot of people questioned the widsom in drafting Marvin. This guy is just coming into his own. He is shooting the ball lights out. How many guys are shooting over 60%?

Now any good cooach would design the offnese to run through this guy. Marvin is not taking enough shots. On the other hand, Smith is taking too many shots. Until he proves otherwise, Marvin need to take 20 shots a game.

Now Smith needs to play more like a power forward. He needs to play under the basket amd take jumper 15 feet. I guess we can no longer have a dispute whether this guy is a natural 3. He is a four that can play three at times. Josh needs to get his shooting % up to 50%. The guy is shooting below 20% and this is crazy for an NBA player.

Doc, the hawks will be OK. Boston may be the best team in the NBA. The Hawks need to improve and it is not because of the PG. The hawks need to hit the open shots. In the piston game, Josh was 4/17. They lost by one. If he had shot 47%, he could have scored 8 more points. The Hawks win by 7.

The fact remains that the Hawks have played some tough teams on the road and for the most part held their own. I think this will help them for the rest of the season. I expect that they will win 7-10 games in a row pretty soon.

By kwooden1

November 10, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

I hate that I couldn’t see the game, even though it was a forgettable one for the Hawks. Looking at the stats and listing to some of the game on the radio, it should like the Celtics played inside and out and gave up no offense rebounds. This was a good game for the Hawks to see what a very athletic center can do to them. I’ve been fine with playing Horford at center, but this game was a bad match-up. Horford can’t play KG by himself, so I’m sure that the Hawks were double teaming him. With Pierce, Allen and House shooting well the Hawks were in a catch 22. They need to really work on their half court execution, because most teams aren’t going to let the run. If they stay focused on getting better (especially Josh Smith) they have a chance to be a good team this year. Every team has one or two of these games each year, especially a team starting two rookies. I’ve seen enough this year to think they will make significant strides. I still don’t think their a playoff team this year, but they definitely have the talent. I do believe that if they keep improving that this pace, they can be a playoff team and even a great team in the next few years.

GO HAWKS! Keep working Hard J. Smith!!

By mykhalc

November 10, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

REESE, nobody is askin’ JS to decrease his intensity level BUT we are askin’ him to increase his SMARTS!!! needs to make the kinda moves that he can COMPLETE offensively. it is that simple!!! to repeatedly do what he does is just plain crazy!!!

but it’s not all on JS. EVERYBODY is to blame for the way this team plays offensively. someone said it a few posts earlier that the team is missin’ another veteran scorer. and i’ll take it another step and say they are missin’ veteran type play from their 3 and 4 yr vets!!!! right now EVERYBODY IS THINKIN’ on the court, especially in the half-court sets. add that to the fact that they have NO FEEL for how to ‘time’ their own individual assignments, such as how long to stay on a screen, waitin’ on the screen to actually be there, poppin’ out after the screen has been set, etc, then it produces an offensive that looks like it’s bein’ run by curly, larry and moe!!! the half-court sets REALLY are that bad!!!!

this team should be runnin’ NOTHIN’ but cutters at this point, thru the lane. or passin’ the ball around the top UNTIL the open cat has the ball!!! somebody will be doubled so it will be just a matter of patience ‘til the shot is there!!!

WOODSON really needs to turn the offensive sets over to DREW…PERIOD!! obviously that has not been done!!

the ONLY natural b’ball play i saw between 2 players last nite was JJ hittin’ MARVIN with a lob on the break!! other than that any assist that came were few and far between. it’s like THEY ALL take turns goin’ one-on-one!!!!

an offense HAS TO be designed that puts these cats on the move…at all times…PERIOD!!!! it is the ONLY WAY they will learn to play off each other and with each other…PERIOD!!!!

By mykhalc

November 10, 2007 12:22 PM | Link to this

oh yeah, DOC, my one and half positives from last nite were the play of HORFORD and growin’ play of LAW.

HORFORD got taken to school, no doubt. but he is a QUICK study. so i have no doubt he became better as a player despite the KG lesson last nite. his effort, skills, and smarts makes his schoolin’ last nite a positive!!!!

i thought LAW played more freely and made steps in his 5th game. he had 5 assists, is still showin’ that he can create his own shot with no problem, and he can get to the rim. growin’ pains, no doubt. but positive growth none-the-less!!! it’ll take him a minute to get a feel of what to do and when. all about findin’ his balance!!!

again, with more designed movement offensively, EVERYBODY would find a better balance!!!

By MannyT

November 10, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

With 77 games to go, I can toss the Boston game out. The better team won—end of story. We should be better by April w/o any trades as long as the rookies are not too worn out from the long season.

Now is the time that the Hawks have to make something happen. Like JC Dawg said the next few games are against teams that have been struggling. Let’s keep them down.

As for your stats after 5 games—get real. That’s like me saying you should be rich this year if you multiply your check on payday by 365.

I do agree that Marvin needs to take on a bigger role in the offense when it slows down. I am more concerned about keeping up the pace of the offense. If we are going to run, keep it moving. Share the ball—more passes, less hammer that nail dribbling.

The Wiz are a perfect team to play on Sunday…they’re in worse shape than we were late last season. Check out news from their last game

With the right focus, this should be a great opportunity to bounce back a 500 record.

By mykhalc

November 10, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

the ONLY natural b’ball play i saw between 2 players last nite was JJ hittin’ MARVIN with a lob on the break!!

the point i was tryin’ to make here is that i saw 2 players on the same page…not havin’ to think about what to do in regards to completin’ the play….

By reese

November 10, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc, Josh is shooting the same type of shots each game. The problem is that he is missing too many shots. But to say that he should just take shots in the post is limiting his intensity.

Currently, each game he is mixing in outside shots, post shots and drives to the basket. In the Phoenix game, he just happened to hit some acrobatic off balanced shots while driving through the lane.

A problem he has against teams who have athletic players like KG, Maxiel, Wallace and others is that they are able to block his shot or make Josh alter his shot.

A problem he has against other teams is that their guards steal the ball while he is dribbling or when he jumps in the air and they cut off his passing lanes.

So do I twinge when I see him brick an outside shot, yes. However, as long as he continues to mix in other types of shots, I can live with the occasional brick.

Josh knows what he does poorly. But, the only way to get better is to try the moves in practice and execute the moves in games. Hopefully, his dribbling, passing and shooting will improve soon.

Manny T, the stats after 5 games is just 1 facet of what we have to judge the impact of players. The play of josh smith in 5 games is consistent with his play of last year except that now he is in the top five in 2 categories.

Hopefully, Marvin and Childress can improve their consistency and stay among the league leaders. Hopefully, Joe Johnson can improve his overall play and be among the leauges top players.

By tony

November 10, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

reese, i’m very aware of JS statistics on defense. i’ve been saying for sometimes now that he needs to focus more on rebounding and shot blocking. However, he is killing this team with his poor shooting and his indecisiveness on offense. Joe Johnson is mediocre at best against quality opponents. He remind me of a little boy who pout when he doesn’t gets his way. We need smart unselfish leaders who can produce on the big stage and JJ and JS don’t qualify. Trade them for Kobe or Camelo Anthony and maybe Tracy McGrady. Get the deal done Woodson or get FIRED!

By MannyT

November 10, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

Smith is a very good player, but very inconsistent. Thus, I expect his stats to vary a lot when evaluated in small segments.

I agree that stats are one facet of judging a player or team. However, I don’t think 5 games is enough for the stats to matter. Something about std deviation applies here, but it’s not interesting enough to post. Josh might have been in the top 5 for these areas last season after Joe went out. I didn’t check.

At this point, outside of the record, I can live with subjective factors (playing teams that were good last year, who looks comfortable or not on the court, what impact will injured players have when they return.)

I did notice that the best Hawk in Steal to turnover ratio (1.0) is Williams…Shelden Williams. He is tied for 34th, along with 24 other players. Josh Smith is 2nd on the team at 0.75 ratio. That ties him for 72nd with 9 others.

It’s too soon for the stats to matter unless you are in a fantasy hoops league.

By tony

November 10, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith is putting up the same stats he put last year. His decisions on offense has always been mediocre. Him and Joe Johnson are not leaders and set bad examples for our future players(Acie & Al Horford). If anyone think they can lead this team to a championship now or in the future then you are kidding yourselves. The Braves won a championship because they went out and sign smart veteran players who led by example. Dan Reeves did the same thing for the falcons but fell short because of injuries and the destraction Eugene brought to the team right before the SB. This team need veterans who is smart enough to take us to the promise land who has the capability to lead by example.

By reese

November 10, 2007 4:27 PM | Link to this

Tony, I sang your tune 4, 3 and 2 years ago and have come to the realization that this is our team.

Therefore, I’m stating what I think our team needs to do to perform better.

Again, if Marvin, JJ and Childress step up to the plate on offensive, then that should help take care of the offensive.

Blaming Josh Smith for centerpiece of our offensive woes is ridiculous. Expecting him to just play defensive and not explore offensive opportunities is limiting his overall growth.

Having Marvin, JJ, Salim or Tlue be the recipient of the drive and kick will open up the game and allow Josh Smith to get open shots in the post.

By Ken Strickland

November 10, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

DOC, I have some observations for you. (1)When ALaw was coming off the bench, he was aggressive and attacked the basket at will. Since becoming a starter, he’s become preoccupied with running the OFF and no longer attacks the basket.

(2)Even though MWilliams has been shooting the ball extremely well, he’s still attacking the basket, which is good.

(3)JSmith desperately wants to be a major part of the OFF. He’s having difficultly getting to the basket(causing too many turnovers), so he has resorted to taking outside shots. A missed jumpshot isn’t as bad as a turnover. At least you have a chance of getting an OFF RB on missed shots.

(4)Strangely, Woodson’s OFF doesn’t seem to have any set plays where JJ, or anyone, comes off picks for open shots(like Hamilton in Detroit). JJ is having to go one on one to consistently get involved in the OFF.

(5)MWilliams, JJ, JChildress, Salim and ALaw are excellent pull up jumpshooters. When we run our half court OFF, we should run picks to get them open shots. If the defender cheats and goes over the pick, the player doubles back towards the basket for a pass or lob.

We were simply overmatched last night. A team this good shooting 61% for the gm would have beaten most anyone. We’ll regroup and take it out on Washington tomorrow.

By doc

November 10, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

steve t, thanks for the reassurance, as for your IF, i imagine a lot of defenses will be designed to ALLOW smash to shoot from the outside because they know he will shoot 28% not 47% dude. you make me laugh with that kind of kool aide. but go ahead and say it all you want it wont change a thing.

By ray

November 10, 2007 6:40 PM | Link to this

To be honest, I didn’t expect us to get a win in Boston. I wouldn’t have expected us to beat them on our home court either. I won’t make any excuses for our team, we did not play well. But a few things to consider: opinions probably, but to me they seem fairly obvious:

Boston has three all-star players who are truly battle-tested, two of which have been thwarted countless times by early playoff exits. It’s harder to find more motivated talent than that. Boston (Ainge) found it. I guess it’s true what they say about the blind squirrel, eh?

Garnett is the leader here, make no mistake about it. He’s the guy that has the fire and ability that few in the NBA have. He’ll have the fire when NO ONE ELSE will. Pierce and Allen are leaders too, but Pierce for one is only too glad to have not one but TWO other guys who can produce at a high level when necessary. But Garnett has it all: the locker-room leadership, the floor leadership, and the ability to change the game on the offensive and defensive ends, as well as on the boards. And he’s not just a leader, he’s a friend who makes his teammates better. We saw that on Friday night. Without him we probably win or it’s a much closer game at the least.

Gee…now that I’ve talked Boston up (they deserve it), here’s what I think about our fellas:

Stoudamire could be like Eddie House. Notice how House was all over the place, getting to the open spots on the floor for contest-free jumpers. Getting to his spots. Salim could spread the floor like that. I blame Woodson for this because our half court set-up has hardly evolved. We’ve gone from “give JJ the ball and see what happens” to running a 2-man pick and roll that usually involves JJ and Lue. Lue is slowing down. Still a good guy, but certainly hardly effective against bigger pgs and sgs, as well as guys like House, who is simply faster. The more I watch, the smaller Lue looks. Worse yet, when guys like Horford and Smith (or any other larger guy) do the pick and roll, they end up rolling for no reason. How many times have you seen Horford set a pick only to NOT receive the ball. Woodson has GOT to see that every team we play KNOWS Lue is going to shoot. I really don’t get it…

Fact is, our half court set should be a thing of constant motion: screens, back door runs, slants, cuts of all types. Instead, we usually have a maximum of two guys moving. The other three are either standing in some spot where they can do no good. Everybody does it fairly equally, but Josh is the worst about this for one reason only: he can do so much but is often in the wrong position on the floor to do it. He has got to quit setting up so far from the basket. He can’t shoot worth a flip that far away. Closer, he’s better. Closer, he’s more dangerous driving, because defenses have less time to react to him. Less reaction time produces the same reaction: other defenders come across to help and are caught going the wrong way when he can pass to an open teammate that CAN shoot, such as Marvin, JJ, or Salim.

We didn’t run. Or rather, we didn’t run much, and the attempts to do so were weak and turnover prone. I don’t know if it was mostly Boston taking us out of the running game, or our lack of effort and committment to it. Either way, we just didn’t run. And when we don’t, even the hardest-core kool aid drinkers have to admit that we’re simply not nearly as successful or dangerous.

The lack of a run game puts us in position to be butchered by the turnover-prone, one-and-a-half dimensional, highly dysfunctional half court offense…which quite frankly is offensive in and of itself. Woodson needs to draw up better plays. Even a lineup with our size limitations (ooops, there’s that word again) can run better half court stuff than that. We’ve shown that we have plenty of shooting and driving weapons. USE THEM. Bottom line (and you will see this all season if things don’t change in either coaching or personnel movements)is that in the half court, you have to have a certain kind of lineup with certain kinds of abilities. You have to run certain kinds of plays.

Woodson had/has to know that teams are NOT going to allow us to run all game long, and certainly not all season long. Preparing for the inevitable times that happens is his job. He needs better plays and needs to have these guys doing them, so that they know exactly what to smoothly revert to as soon as the game changes.

Were we outclassed by Boston? Certainly. Any day of the week. But is that the real point? I don’t think so.

I think this is an experience that should teach Woodson and the team that you have to be prepared to survive if not thrive when you are not playing your preferred style. Why? Because, all the smart teams and coaches (you may as well say all the other teams) won’t look at this and say “Well gosh, of course Boston won, they’ve got three all-stars in their starting lineup.” What they will say is “Uh-huh. So that’s what you do to make Atlanta stop running you off the court. Force them into half-court sets and watch them pick themselves apart. You only have to play mildly decent defense, because Woodson has offensive diversity in this set, nor does he have a reliable offensive system in this set.” And watch the season fall apart if this continues, beccause by the half-way point…every single team will be approaching us the same way.

I realize I’m going somewhat out into the future with this prognostication, but it only has to start with one loss. A few losses later, people finally begin to pick up on the pattern and then the panic and noise begins. I say if things start to go in that direction…let Woodson go, let Drew take over…and look for a new coach. Because if it comes down to roster moves, I don’t see Billy making the right ones.

Now…let’s go beat the crap out of Washington!

By MannyT

November 10, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

KEN, would it be fair to say that Law might be more aggressive on offense if he were coming off the bench (even if he played most of the game?)

As for Woody’s offense, he was in Detroit with Hamilton (as was his consultant/mentor-coach Brown.) Maybe they have something against plays with picks in them???? Seems like you would bring a play or two with you that works.

Maybe Smith could benefit from a play or two that feeds him in the post. That makes it less likely that he would drift to the 3 pt line.

TONY, my definition of a leader is the guy that the others are following. Every team/group has at least one. Hopefully the coaches can help that person move the team in a positive direction. I think the interesting part for the Hawks is the end of last season made roles less clear after Joe’s season ended. Now there is a bit of uncertainty. I believe part of it comes from guys trying to think more than they are used to doing on the court.

By tony

November 10, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this

reeve,i’m with u about Josh Smith should contribute on offense but there’s a right and wrong way to get it done. This is his 4th season but he hasn’t learn how to let the game come to him on offense. Dennis Rodman, Horace Grant, Otis Thorpe, James Worthy and Kenyon Martin were all outstanding rebounders and defenders but they never push for points but instead they let the game come to them. I blame JJ and JS for not playing smarter and establishing themselves as leaders for this team. We drafted Acie Law to distribute the ball and to run the offense but from what I observer in watching the games is that JJ and JS have prevented Acie from doing what we drafted him to do. When Lue enter the game they’re more than willing to let him make plays but reluctant to let Acie make plays. We need to trade JJ and JS for Kobe or Camelo Anthony. GET IT DONE BK!

By tony

November 10, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this

I meant to say that there is a right way for JS to contribute on offense but he going about it the wrong way.

By Ken Strickland

November 10, 2007 8:13 PM | Link to this

MANNYT, he doesn’t have to come off the bench to be aggressive. No player knows beforehand how they’ll perform during a gm. I’ve gone into gms feeling great, but my performance didn’t reflect it. On the other hand, I’ve felt way off and ended up having an outstanding gm.

As the PG and team QB, ALaw should take the initiative, be aggressive, and attack the DEF. His job is to get the DEF to focus on him until he finds out who’s got it going that night. Think about the following. From the time that ball goes up, SNash and TParker are on the attack. They force you to stop them 1st, then they get everyone else involved. They both probe the DEF for weaknesses and force teams into switches. ALaw has the talent, quickness, passing and finishing ability to force DEF’s into the lane to cut off his drives. He can then pass out to open jump shooters or to players cutting to the basket. His aggressiveness would also make our pick and roll much more effective. It would also ease the double team pressure JJ is experiencing. ALAW SHOULD FORCE TEAMS TO CONCERN THEMSELVE WITH MORE THAN JUST STOPPING JJ TO BEAT US.

In MJordan’s 1st few yrs in the league, he won nothing but scoring titles. It wasn’t until SPippin came aboard that the championships started to come. Pippin gave teams something else to worry about other than stopping MJ. ALaw could be to JJ’s what SPippin was to MJ. Add MWilliams as the 3rd option, an aggressive AHorford at the 5, and you have a very difficult OFF to contend with.

By reese

November 10, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

MannyT, you can keep looking at assist to turnover ratio all you want. However, I’d advise you that a stat that shows shelden williams as our leader is a pretty useless stat.

Tony, Worthy was a great offensive player and defensive player. I aspire for Josh to be a great defensive and offensive player. More on the lines of Worthy, Larry Nance, Scottie Pippen, Clyde Drexler, charles barkley or shawn kemp.

We’ve had some tremendous defensive players in Atlanta. Tree rollins, Mutombo and Theo Ratliff. Josh is capable of providing the shot blocking and rebounding just like those players. Additionally, he is able to score over 20 points on occasion, average in the mid teens in points, get steals and get assist.

I believe that we begged for those players of the past to do the same. Now that we have someone who can do more, we still want to chastise the player.

By ray

November 11, 2007 2:12 AM | Link to this

Reese, the argument is rather fluid. It goes in all directions. You certainly have valid points. But so do people that want/need more from Smith. He’s not a leader…yet. What he is…is a incredibly athletic, talented work in progress that is producing despite his lack of maturity, poise, and consistency. When he is doing well, he’s awesome. When he’s not, he tends to look terrible. I agree that he should not be condemned by anyone. But he’s not finished improving and growing, and it won’t happen overnight. As for other teams not trading their stars…well, teams have been trading their stars, sometimes all-stars. Smith is a star in the making. He hasn’t hit that next level just yet, but he will soon.

Steve T, sometimes I wonder if you even know that’s kool aid you’re drinking. Although I agree with anybody who says the past is the past…tired of thinking about all the things Billy Knight has done wrong…

Ken, I think Law’s problem is simple. He’s a rookie. He’s on a team that has seen a glimpse of it’s identity. An identity that should’ve been revealed a year or two ago, but that a certain coach has suppressed. I think Law is trying to do what Woody is telling him to do. Yes, I have a fetish for blaming Woody for stuff, I know. But I figure that’s what is going on. We have yet to see the gunslinger we saw at Texas A&M. Law is probably trying too hard to get the right guys involved in the offense at the right times. He isn’t taking the ball to the hole all as much when he starts, but then…how many NBA starts has he had? One thing it will take is a good prodding from a heavy influence…something I’d expect any good head coach to do. That’s right, I said it again: this is Woody’s job. He should be telling Law to put pressure on the offense when other stuff is clearly not working. But who knows if Woody will do this or not.

By ray

November 11, 2007 2:50 AM | Link to this

Hey, read HoopsHype and saw that Orlando is on the hunt for a big guy. Lorenzen Wright was one of the names mentioned. We should make that deal! Wonder if they’d be willing to give us $5, a bag of chips, and a Coke? Hmmm…maybe the Coke is asking too much…

By doc

November 11, 2007 7:54 AM | Link to this

good time to catch the wiz and rebound a bit for confidence. arenas is among the walking wounded, had his knee drained twice in three weeks. not a good sign for his season and maybe career as he had surgery to “correct” the problem this summer. if we can handle their big guys and keep arenas from going off it will be similar situation to catching a team without all its components in place in our domain. hawks win tonight or they had better win under the circumstances.

By Steve T

November 11, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

Ray, I hear you talk about all the thing Billy has done wrong. Let us look at the Hawks prior to Billy. Name me any other draft pick beside Jason Terry that was wrothy of the pick.

Jon Koncack? Demarr Johnson? Stacey Augmon?

Ray, we had some dark and gloom days before Billy. But now the future look bright:

Marvin Williams may pan out to be the best player in that draft bar none.

Al Horford may pan out to be the best player in his draft class bar none.

AC Law is a good draft pick.

JJ was an excellent trade.

Josh Smith was a good pick.

Josh Childress was a good pick.

The fact remains Billy has drafted more NBA ready players that the previous GM. He only been on the job less than 5 years but he has draft more good players in that time than the previous GM did in his whole tenure.

The magic doesn’t have much in trade value. They have a PG that is a great shooter. He might be able to help out. Carlos Arroyo is 6-2. He shoots 46% from the field, 63% from the 3. If he got him and paired him sith Jj or Salmin, it could strecth the defense.

Let me conclude by saying soome mentioned that Josh Smith needs to work on shooting in the games. I have a problem in close games when someone does this.

In close game every shot must count. If the 3 pointer or long range is not falling, you must give the ball up to the PG. I have found from exp that some time it is better for a player get something going. Josh could have worked inside for some shots. Then you bring your game to the outside.

Josh must realize that if his shoot is not falling that he has other talents to help his team win. He can rebound, block shots, make some passes, etc. He can do the little things to help his team win. Marvin is hot right now, and the team must ride Marvin to victory.

By Professor

November 11, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

I say with the money we have and the current contracts, it would be very hard to keep Josh Smith. He is going to want alot of money after this season. But with that in mind, he is one of the best talents on the team and would be excellent trade bait to get a big in here. Why not try and see if we can work out something for J. Oneal in Indiana? Horford can slide to the 4 which is his natural position anyway. Just a thought. Some thoughts about the team…..Josh Smith looks like he is trying too hard because of the contract, and JJ is trying too hard because of the double teams. Sheldon Williams just plain out sucks and I dont see what BK saw in him to begin with, but his minutes should decrease when ZaZa comes back. Salim needs more minutes and I agree with the prior blogger who said to play him similar to how Boston plays Eddie House. Marvin doesnt realize how good he really is and when he does its going to be scary. I dont see why he cant average 25 a game. He can do everything well, and seems to be going to the line on a nightly basis, which he needs to teach JJ how to do. I think Law will be fine but PG in the NBA is the hardest position to learn and I cant critique him on only five games. In comparison, I havent heard much from Conley this year…..but Yi does look like a beast and it will be fun to watch him and alot of other rookies from this draft class in the coming years.

By tony

November 11, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this

Steve T, what dark and gloomy days are u referring to. The darkest days i’ve witness is when BK became GM. By the way, BK has been on the job 5 years but he hasn’t gotten this team back into the playoff since he took over which is the longest drought since the hawks been in Atlanta. i’m not trying to come down on u but please don’t try to make BK some kinda genius. At least lets wait until we make the playoff.

By Ken Strickland

November 11, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

RAY, although I am not as hard on Woody as you, and some others, I agree with what you said. It’s not up to Law to initiate the style of play I advocated, it’s up to the coach. Woody seems caught between running the uptempo style dictated by our talent,, and his bosses, and the half court style he’s most confortable with. He seems to be encouraging ALaw to be a PG more in the mold of CBillups than TParker or SNash. But even CBillups will take charge and attack. Just look back at their gm with us, especially after Hamilton fouled out.

PROFESSOR, I don’t think the Hawks are going to keep JSmith. We have too many young players that are rapidly developing into potential stars. We can’t offer them all max or near max contracts, so someone has to be sacrificed. I don’t think BK will trade Josh for anything less than a talented young big, or a high 1st rd pick. We need an athletic young BIG like a LAldridge or CFry, for example.

By reese

November 11, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Ray, the reason my points go in a lot of different directions is because bloggers have a lot of different problems with Josh Smith.

The reason that both sides have valid points is because there will always be two or more sides to every argument.

There were those who liked Kareem, Wilt, tracy mcgrady, shaq, barkley, ray allen and many other all stars. Yet, those stars were traded and brought winning basketball to their new teams.

So I do realize that anyone is tradeable and style of play is in the eye of the beholder. So what a lot of bloggers call shooting to much by Josh Smith, Mike D’Atoni of phoenix would say keep shooting.

Oh yeah, aren’t a lot of those telling Josh to stop shooting the same ones that say we need to play a phoenix style of basketball.

So if the team goal is to push the tempo of the game. Then, why are we only averaging 75 shot attempts a game where last year we averaged 77. Its because of mindset. Marvin’s mindset is to take 10.4 shots per game and Josh Smith’s mindset is to take 15.8.

Some would say that Josh needs to take less shots. However, I would say that Marvin needs to change his mindset and take more shots.

As far as Josh Smith goes, he has the right mindset, but the execution has been poor. Thats where film, practice and coaching comes into play to help him improve his game percentage. Not decrease the amount of shots.

By MannyT

November 11, 2007 1:19 PM | Link to this

reese

This is EXACTLY my point about most stats 5 games into the season. The assist to turnover ratio does an excellent job of highlighting the point.

Josh is in the top 5 of 2 stat categories. It does not matter this soon in the season. It does matter that he is building on the confidence he got when JJ was out last season.

…if be becomes more consistent, all will be good (until it’s time to do that next contract.)

By reese

November 10, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

MannyT, you can keep looking at assist to turnover ratio all you want. However, I’d advise you that a stat that shows shelden williams as our leader is a pretty useless stat.

By ray

November 11, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

Reese, I meant that the argument itself goes in a bunch of different directions. I didn’t meant it to sound like YOU are the one going in different directions. If anything, I think your particular viewpoint has been rather consistent. A lot of people are critical of Josh, but that’s part of it. I like the guy, but like anyone, he’s got room to improve. Besides, criticism never stops until you accomplish the biggest things. Right now a guy named T-mac can’t make it out of the first round of the playoffs. Dirk can’t win the Finals. Kobe isn’t the team leader he thought he’d be (without Shaq). You see? It never stops.

Ken, agreed. And I think that while it will take a little time (maybe all this season, I don’t know), AGAIN-a coach who can steer him in the right direction is just as big a factor. Whether that’s Woody or not is still not a solid determination. But I’m thinking…it’s not.

Steve T, evidently the kool aid is poisoned with a hypnotic agent as well. Knight has indeed done better than some in the past. The problem is the future is always just out of reach. He hasn’t done an efficient job. I can’t stand it when people want to give the man credit for collecting a pool of individual talent, LUCKING into two lottery draft picks this past draft, and hiring a coach that doesn’t know what to do with what he has. Future is bright? Yeah, when we can get there! When does the future become the present? Answer me that! Woody is only just now coming upon the idea of using this team to run, run, run…and he’s showing he is STILL not committed to the concept. If he’s not committed, then the team can’t be! And now that you’ve grown so proud of all the fine young swingmen we have: we’ll have to give at least one of them up. And our star is unhappy. This is what happens when you build a collection of individual talents, not a talented TEAM.

Somebody please explain to me how Washington beat us like that. And gee, how did they manage to beat us so badly on the boards-on BOTH ends of the court? Oh I know you don’t want me to say it…ahem…

One thing is for certain, that’s probably the best game Haywood’s gonna have all year…that is until they play us again.

One lone bright spot: Marvin doubled up again. I’ll take 20 and 10/12 from him anytime. Those are all-star numbers. Love that he’s rebounding and scoring like this, even if he didn’t shoot so great today.

What happened to Josh Smith on the boards?

Al is solid. And they STILL aren’t running plays for him, evidenced by his offensive numbers.

JJ’s game is off. He isn’t shooting well. Hope he heats up quick. But then, will that mean Woody relapses back into his usual “give it to JJ and grind it out” offensive crap? I hope not…

Why wasn’t Sheldon in the game, hasn’t he been doing reasonably well on the boards? What about Salim?

Law only had 2 fouls. Why did he play only 13 minutes? The Wizards have bigger guards. So why did Lue play 19 minutes and AJ never even suited up?

This reeks of Woody…

By tony

November 11, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

JS and JJ is killing our team. JS is trying to play 3 positions - pg, sg and pf. The pf suppose to play a similar role to that of a center with their backs to the basket to score and to position themselves to rebound and block shots on defense not take shots from the 3pt line. If JS is playing at the 2 position then who is playing the pf position. JJ plays the point and sg position so that leaves Acie Law without a postion. The pg position is typically to bring the ball down court to setup plays and to create scoring opportunities for the team. He is the floor leader and must possess good court vision, passing ability and good ball handling ability. Acie have the ability to lead this team but it will take CMW, JJ and JS to tell Acie that they believe in him. Acie knows he can lead this team but he need his teammates to trust him. If JS and JJ would just play their positions and let Acie do what he does best they can beat any team in the league.

By Glutton for Punishment

November 11, 2007 7:11 PM | Link to this

OMG !! Why did I spend any money for this game. It was SO BORING !! The guy next to me fell asleep for about 15 mins. I was about to join him. There was NO ENERGY. I was expecting them to come out with some fire after the Boston game but they were more lethargic than I have seen them the last two yrs ( and we all know how those yrs turned out). I could not beleve it.

Now all this talk about a “running team” HAHA. I was running about as fast as they were and I was in my seat the whole time. They would run and then stop after the go over the half court line. Goodness…

They finally decrease Washington’s lead to about 8 pts then JJ played one-on-the world and threw up a air-ball. He played better last year when we had no other options but him. Now that he has some other options, he can’t throw it in the ocean.. It is a good thing this one was not on TV.

The best was Marvin and unfortunately, he is not an aggressive type of play. Sometimes, the one with the hot hand needs to take over but Marvin’s attitude seems like he would rather defer to JS and JJ.

At the beginning of the 3rd q. They started going to the basket and missing 2 lay ups back to back.. That took the air out of them…

This was such a frustating game!! I need a drink !!!

By Glutton for Punishment

November 11, 2007 7:20 PM | Link to this

This is the 1st time that I have every said this but maybe Mike Woodson might need to be replaced. The def. is doing well but the off. is horrific. I have seen better off. sets from a girls jr varsity basketall team.. They really all play one- on- one and they are good athletes but NONE of them are good enough to do thatall game long..

By Steve T

November 11, 2007 8:13 PM | Link to this

My first comment is what is up with JJ. He was 8-24 tonight. He shot 33%from the field, but the worst part was he was 2-11 from the 3. If you take away the 3 point shooting, then he was 6-13 which is not bad. If I was Mike Woodson, I would shake up the line by move JJ to point. I was insert Chill in the line up. I would run the offense through Marvin. Marvin is the man, and the Hawks need to use him.

The ideal line for the Hawks should be: Zaza at cenetr. Josh Smith at power forward Marvin at small forward Salim at shooting guard JJ at the point

The bench would be: Horford at cenetr/forward Chill at Small forward AC at the point T lue at gaurd Shelden in the mix

By tony

November 12, 2007 4:13 AM | Link to this

Steve T, your starting lineup won’t go very far and this is why. First and far most you don’t have a floor leader. This team hasn’t had a true floor leader since Mookie Blaylock, Doc Rivers and Armond Hill played back in the day. Believe it or not but Acie Law is your guy. He is the kind of warrior who can make things happen for the entire team. Some would say that he is nothing but a sg because of his clutch shooting but the guy had more assists than what Steve Nash had in his college career. U see, Acie is your typical floor leader who has great court vision and can create scoring opportunities for the team. Also you need Al Horford in your starting lineup because he is the most unselfish player we got. He is a rebounding machine and he will play within his means. Don’t take Acie and Al for granted - they’re our only hope for now.