Hawks

By ajw

November 2, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

The Mavs looked good the other night. I’d like to see our Hawks keep them from scoring for any stretch tonight. Since Jason Terry is coming off the bench for them, I’d like to see salim play against him. He should be extra motivated against a fellow alum. I tell you what. Watching the other NBA games this week has really got me pumped up for tonight. I love this team!

By The Flash

November 2, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Why are the NBA’s ratings down so much? Why do they allow the coaches on the freakin floor when play is going on? Why do coaches call every single play on offense, and defenses too, on each time down the court?

They say that this is a player’s game. I’m not seeing that. Haven’t seen it for some time.

How can you compare Brady with Johnny U when Brady hasn’t called a play since he was in grade school, and then only when it was chose-up-sides.

After the lawyers, I say kill all the coaches. They are ruining it for the rest of us, including the guys getting paid the huge dollars to play while somebody else pulls the strings. Me and Vito Calderleon for starters wouldn’t put up with it.

Joe the fan, I think, is tired of it.

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

SEKOU, did WOODSON release his startin’ 5 for tonite yet???

By brent a.

November 2, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

Looking forward to attending tonight’s game.

Last time I went to opening night, it was to see the Lakers. (Okay, I’m a Lakers fan).

This time, I’m excited about the Hawks.

By Astro Joe

November 2, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this

mykhalc, I noticed in the photo-montage of the Hawks roster that AJ was listed as the starting PG. I assume that answers that question, with Horford playing C.

I’ll be avoiding Heat broadcasts throughout the season (other than when they play the Hawks). There is absolutley nothing entertaining about that team… even when Wade returns, I have no interest watching him shoot 20 free throws and hurl himself into opponents. The best thing about that team is Alonzo. Imagine if Olowakandi had a tenth of Zo’s heart and passion.

Sekou, so does that mean that you expect Durant will make the second round of the playoffs since he may be better than T-Mac? Marbury, JON and T-Mac have to be atop the “All-Overrated” Team in this league.

I’m headed down for the opening game and looking forward to seeing things in person.

By doc

November 2, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

Sorry to do a bit of a reprise, paste and stamp but it pertains to this and the last discussion and went on about the time of the new blog.

i see a lot has been going down since I last looked. atf, hadnt even had time to check the scores from last night.

fun tango tween ray and ando.

well we are about to get ready to go into the 2007-08 NBA SEASON on an nhl budget. heh heh, now lets us see how far it gets us.

yes, it is a bellweather year for the hawks as management will have to stop the talk of “you find a big if you can, cause we sure cant” as bernie is just quoted on 680 this am. also “there are some teams out there that seem to do pretty good with two fours for a line-up”. gulp, he said it. yes, we could find you one if you could just stretch the budget into the nba league instead of playing the next best cheap thing to the hornets and the clippers owners as well or PRETENDING the nba budget is the same as the nhl. can you imagine how sorry they would be if the thrashers had to compete at 75% of what the other guy has in his budget and that was conservative an estimate.

the bellweather is how they treat their commodities this summer; as trade bait to aquire more draft picks or to sign these guys and get someone to go along with them, and what they do if they are truly in the run for a post season trip to get blown out in the first round. for any of you with mavid on his concerns of poor timing and how it might affect this tender team which if they are big boys it shouldn’t matter one iota, i assure you if you think these guys dont sit around and discuss who would be a good fit to add to this team you are in a huge illusion of your own making. these guys want to compete, get paid and be a contender and some of that means paying up. if they dont several guys walk out the door unless the nba is about to really come down in what it pays and since duncan just got 20 mil a year for an extension i guess that isnt quite the big picture.

I agree sekou let us stay real here.

By mavid

November 2, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

Good blog, Sekou. I saw this ‘rebuttal’ coming, to say the least.

Yes, I was one person who completely agreed with what Joe said (and appreciate that he finally said it), but just thought the timing was weird.

I mean, after a 7-1 preseason and a very tough opening stretch, it just didnt seem like a great time to say that this team neeeded to make major moves to be seriously competitive (even if we all know it to be true… we need to have a hyper level of confidence to do it big this season).

You are correct though, I’m not sure when IS the right time to do that… but, 2 days before opening night doesn’t seem like the best to me. Feel me?

I would think that a) in the weeks after last season ended or b) after we start struggling this season would have been more appropriate times for such comments.

But again, I agree with what he said. We’re basically relying on two rookies to shore up our key holes. Can Acie be an effective pg? Can Horford effectively play the 5?

If either of those are NO, then we have some major problems (no surprise there).

So, the guys I would target if things go awry:

• Jose Calderon in Toronto as our PG. The dude has gotten EVEN better, and would be a huge upgrade for this team. He is definitely an NBA starter, and isnt being effectively utilized behind another quality NBA starter in Ford. (Now that I think about it… last draft, if we couldve traded Chill for Calderon and then drafted Al Thorton, we might be looking REALLY good right now).

• Jermaine O’Neal as our 5. Huge injury risk and salary. But the guy is an all-star. I don’t think I’d do it, but he seems to be the most easily gotten big man right now (and it seems we like dealing with Indy).

So, yeah, we do have some options. Let’s see if slow-moving BK finally does something.

By mavid

November 2, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

oh and let’s go HAWKS! I’m hoping for a win, but if not, I at least want us to make Dallas work their asses off to take us down.

By Dan

November 2, 2007 12:14 PM | Link to this

Who is ripping Joe Johnson for his comments? I missed that. How can anyone be critical of what he had to say? Nothing he said was not true. Give me a break…That kind of reaction is why athletes always talk in cliche. If they talk real, than the retards will not be able to handle it.

I can’t wait for tonight. I mean I CAN’T WAIT!!! I don’t expect a win tonight, but I do expect a tough game. This team may not be ready to beat Dallas just yet, but they have enough to make the playoffs this year.

By mavid

November 2, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Ray, just read your comments on last blog. Good call on the timing thing. I’ll admit I hadnt considered that (which was stupid of me). You’re right. He probably waited to see if anything was gonna happen, then when it was clear it wouldnt, voiced his concern.

My whole thing about the lack of moves, is I STILL don’t know whether it is BK or the ownership. It’s probably a combination of the two, but it’d be interesting to know what has happened in certain circumstances (i.e. what things have been BK’s fault and what have been the ownership). Alas, we probably will never know.

The good thing is, this is a make-or-break season for both BK and Woody. If things arent progressing well, I think BK will HAVE to make a trade to try salvage the team he’s been building for so many years now.

By mavid

November 2, 2007 12:18 PM | Link to this

So, in sum, I completely agree with Joe’s comments, I was initially turned off by the timing (it WAS a little bit of a wet blanket article tho, haha), and have since been brought to my senses by Ray.

Good day all…

By doc

November 2, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

mavid, welcome back to reality, heh heh.

got something to say anbout mr. k brown as a fix for a big….. jjst say NO.

By Willie Coyote

November 2, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

I missid all the criticism and judging from Sekou’s response, it’s probably not worth going back to see what people were saying. What Joe said was right on point and the timing was not a problem either. Sekou not appreciating someone jumping in his conversation is not a problem either.

Not real sure why these things got under some people’s skin but that’s also not important.

I really can’t wait for tip-off. I want to see some up-tempo Hawks basketball but I’ll believe that when I see it.

By MsDee

November 2, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

I think maybe the reason Joe said what he said when he said it was to also get his teammates fired up for tonite. I mean cause who wants their star player to have doubts about the team. U then would want to give it all u got for a quiet-type star who just wants to carry his team to the playoffs. So to be honest, he couldnt have voiced it at a better time!! If he would have waited after we were 0-6, it would look like he was blaming his teammates for such a record which would have made him no better than what Kobe is doing to his teammates!!

By The Flash

November 2, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this

fantasy basketball How bout if the Hawks try to get Chicago back in the mix and try for a massive three way.

JJ is one of the few players in the league that could give LA anything like Kobe.

I like Bynum. I also like the Duke forward on Chicago whose name I am blanking on.

It might also have to involve Smooth. Chicago also might need to give up Heinrick, and one of their bigs. I really am not good at these things.

By Khao$

November 2, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

Joe’s comments are well needed. I don’t know who to blame: the Spirit, Belkin, or Knight. What I do know is the Hawks have acquired LOTS of “capital” over the past few years (picks, cap space,expiring contracts) and All we have to show for it is young talent. That’s not a bad thing. However, I believe good teams use the capital they’ve acquired to get nice veteren pieces to play along side the young players they believe they can build around. Our management group seems trigger shy. Joe is the consumate professional and Sekou is right. Any other “Superstar” in the league would have complained long and hard at this point. Joe’s been diplomatic and I pray ownership listens. It’s odd how, over the last few years, the Thrashers have had the ability (some good and some bad) to make moves, yet their sister team (who has been in existence much longer) sits on the pine and watches other teams get better. Truth be told, we got LUCKY IN THE DRAFT! The ping pongs could have dictated that we lost both picks. Then we’d have no Horford or Law. That said, Knights history doesn’t lead me to believe that he would have acquired any help for JJ or this team in the offseason.

By bsj

November 2, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this

Sekou, nothing wrong with the article on JJ and certainly nothing wrong with JJ. He’s a class act. And while I”m not a big fan of loud people on cell phones in public places, you’re absolutely right in that the cat in line had no business in your conversation.

But on to opening night, baby. I’m very excited about tonight. I think the Hawks can lay one on Dallas tonight. They rocked Cleveland, but I think it’s mainly because Cleveland looked terrible. God Awful! Hard to believe that’s the same team to reach the finals, injuries or no.

Flash, I was about to jump on you about considering Smoove in a trade, but, the more I think about it, if we get Deng and slot Horford in at the 4, that’s not too bad.But if we are giving up JJ and Smoove, we have to get Bynum, too, I think. Was that what you were suggesting? Law, Deng, Marvin, Horford, Bynum/Pachulia. Not bad. We should be able to run a little.

Agreed, MsDee. It’s possible that the summer was a better time, perhaps to motivate ownership/management, but I like it now, too. I’m sure, after two seasons, Smoove, Childress, and Marvin know where he’s coming from. They don’t worry that he doesn’t believe in them and support them.

By Ramon

November 2, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

I think JJ’s comments were perfect. And honestly, it kind of reminds me of how Phil Jackson used to do alot to motivate Shaq and Kobe. And alot of times, it worked. When the most eyes that have been on Atlanta in 9-10 years are here, bring the truth to the light.

The great part about it is, JJ didn’t say anything disrespectful at all. If ANY player on the team, and said the roster was good enough to goto the finals, that player would need to be sent to the nearest AA meeting in the city. And although many people say that the Hawks MAY make the playoffs, JJ is playing for a championship, not the first round. You should want that in a player.

When BK took over the team, he didn’t have ANYTHING that was valuable enough to make a big trade as he does now. So he should use it while he can. In my mind, JJ, Smoove, Law, and Horford needs to be the ONLY untouchables on the roster, and every one else open to be moved.

I love Chills game and would much rather see Marvin go then him. Honestly, I believe the only thing Marvin provides is scoring, and that is the EASIEST thing to find in the NBA. Actually, I often wondered how would the Hawks look if they traded Marvin and Sheldon for help.

By randy

November 2, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

GOOOOO HAWKS!!!

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

JOE, thanks for the heads-up. i’m not surprised if AJ is it. i’ll still hold out hope that he rolls with ACIE tho. but i really know better…

By Mike

November 2, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this

I concur with everyone on JJ comments, but unlike some I don’t think it’s ploy to fire these guys up, they’re already fired up. He is simply reminding ownership that his goal is to win a championship, not just make the playoff. With the ridiculous amount of money some FA’s have recently sign, his contract is a bargain. It’s no reason the cheap @ss spirit should not be aggressively doing everything can to add a legit Big to this roster. They the assets and they have expiring contracts.

Dogg me, ridicule if I’m wrong, but I’m saying we beat Dallas tonight. I just believe these guys will bring they’re lunch bucket and hard hat tonight.

Sekou, sorry just not that impressed with Durant overall game, sure he can score and he’s definitely got star potential, but when ever he gets serious contact he’s a different player. I can’t see his fragile body holding up for a whole season. Don’t forget when he was drafted, he was projected as a Big. You want to see a Big wait to see AH tonight.

Go Get’em HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By smartguy

November 2, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this

Sekou, did you turn into Stephen A Smith?

I kind of agree with JJ, but I think most of our money will be better spent on retaining our current players, rather than rolling the dice on another FA. My question is why didn’t JJ say something earlier, and about keeping some of the core players we already have?? If he would have said something this summer, maybe Smooth would have gotten resigned.

GO HAWKS! Winnable game tonight!! 1-0.

By Harry Hawk

November 2, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

Joe Johnson told it like it is. That’s all I want from a leader.

I’ve got the Hawks at 37-45. I think that will get Mike Woodson canned, which isn’t a bad thing. If Acie Law has a very strong year, I think the Hawks make the playoffs. A rookie point guard really can make that kind of a difference. We saw it with Chris Paul a couple of years ago. I don’t know if Acie has those chops, but I believe in the guy.

By cowa

November 2, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

A few quick points:

1) JJ can say whatever he wants on these matters. The guy has earned it. And I think everybody on this blog agrees with him anyway.

2) Ando’s suggestion of going after O’Bryant in the off-season is one we absolutely should be making. In fact, we should becontacting GS about possibly making a deadline trade of a PG (AJ/Lue) for POB and try to lock him up.

3) Samuel’s suggestion about going after Jackie Butler. The guy has the body we are looking for, and a defensive mindset. Plus, his salary is being paid by SA, so we could get him for the minimum. If we can make a 2 for 1 deal somehow, just looking at minor parts, bring this guy in!

4) Saw where Diaz and Korolev were both let go by the Clips. Both guys should be looked at.

5) Tonight, we’re most likely looking at an L. We probably won’t get many W’s in November. this is a note to everybody with their incredible optimism: hang in there, they should turn things around in time.

6) Win prediction - 35, no playoffs, but Phoenix getting the #8 pick. Which they then sell to somebody in their salary dump scheme along with Marion!

By ScoobySnacks

November 2, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

On JJ’s comments:

Absolutely he has earned the right to say whatever he likes. My concern is that the way it was presented leaves the ready believing that the Hawks captain has no faith that his team is capable of making a playoff push. I know/ hope that was ot his intention. I would have just wanted the question to be posed differently to allow him the chance to state clearly that he doesn’t doubt his team. If he does, then all that horray this preseason from he and his team mates (the huddling up and breakin’ with a chant of playoffs)is just talk from a guy whose heart isn’t in it. I don’t want to believe that.

By Ken Strickland

November 2, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

We spent the entire preseason discussing developing team chemistry. Some of you strongly objected the none signing of the 2 Josh’s. Now, just hours before our opening gm, you’re discussing a possible trade that would destroy the core of this team and any possible chemistry. Talk about poor timing.

From a pure common sense standpoint, why would any Hawk fan consider a trade for KBryant? Is the difference in talent and production of KBryant and JJ worth giving up the overall production of the 2 Josh’s? I won’t even mention the salary discrepancy. And some of you actually have the nerve to question BK’s moves.

We shouldn’t consider trading anyone on this team, especially at this time, until we know what we have and possibly need most. Even Kobe realizes it would be foolish to go to Chicago if it has to give up most of its talent to get him. Why are some of you so enamored with flash and hype that you can’t see the same logic? Others of you seem obcessed with giving up part of our core to acquire a 5, like Bynum. Has Bynum been able to lead the Lakers to any new heights? Do any of you think Bynum could match the overall production of the 2 Josh’s. Hell, he has yet to match JSmith’s production alone.

Get off the soapbox and jump on the Hawks bandwagon. We are going to have a good season.

By Astro Joe

November 2, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Darn, cowa, how many bottom feeders are you looking for this team to add on the eve of what could be a promising season?

By HB Ando

November 2, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

Ken, Bynum just turned 20 about a month ago. I think that’s how old Josh Smith was when he came out of high school. Sometimes you have to be able to project development. That’s what the draft is all about. Please tell me, besides Lebron, who actually is 27, what 20-year old has led his team to new heights?

As I said last night, Kobe is a non-discussion. He has the only no-trade contract clause in the NBA. Do you really think he’d like to leave the Lakers for the Hawks? Wow.

Joe, I actually think that O’Bryant is less project than most would perceive. He’s a classic, half-court big man, on a team that plays in constant transition. And he’s not a ra-ra guy, so he seems to have a bad match with Don Nelson. He just doesn’t fit there. But I agree with you on seeking him out before the trade deadline. He’s unrestricted at the end of the year, so anything they can get for him is better than the nothing they project to get next summer. Would have to negotiate an extension with his agent, before giving up an asset to acquire him this February. But that’s what somebody smart would do, and can we really expect such a move from Billy Knight and the Spirit?

Me thinks not.

By MannyT

November 2, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

ta, ta, ta, taaaaa, da…I know this much is true…

Tonight I am not worried about any trades, just showing up to root for the home team!

As for all the trade ideas, if there isn’t a major impact at the 5, I am not very interested. We have a decent squad of non-centers right now.

We should have one of the better 2nd units. Hopefully Woody can find a way to leverage them.

LET’S GO HAWKS!

By cp

November 2, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

I think we will play a good game tonight. I dont know if we win or not. I hope Acie and Horford get big minutes. If its obvious that Acie is our best option then start the kid… I want to see Marvin being aggresive. Would be nice to see a good 20 plus from the kid tonight with around 8 to 10 free throw attempts. Joe Johson is a good jump shooter but I would love to see him attack the basket a lot more.. As far as O’Bryant in Golden State, I dont like his game at all. He is a big but he is hella soft, seems to have a low basket ball iq, looks very lazy, and is so raw that it would take a few years just to see if he is decent.. I cant wait for the game.

By cowa

November 2, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

AJ, I’m looking to add whatever I can! LoWright, AJ and Lue come off the books at the end of the year. I’m assuming one or two will be packaged, along with somebody else, for a player down the road. Either that, or they will just be let go at the end of the year to get cap relief. Either way, we will have 2-3 slots to fill on our roster. I’m just looking at players that have all been brought up in the past that might have some upside.

Addressing each one:

1) O’Bryant - still like his potential, and I admit I did want to draft him over Sheldon at #5 (even over Roy at the time - my bad). Seven footers are hard to come by. He should come cheap, and it’s a risk worth taking, in my opinion.

2) Butler - the guy was highly sought after last year, and San Antonio got him. Then, he hardly ever saw the court. This year, they had a numbers crunch and had to let him go, as he was one of the cheaper guys. He’s young, big, and plays D. Again, why not?

3) Koralev - the guy is young. Real young. I’m just saying BK should take a look at him before he heads back to Europe. I’m not saying we should definitely sign him.

4) Diaz - I just like this guy, and brought him up last year as a possibility at the point.

Remember, the Spirit is cheap! I’m just looking for guys with potential that we might actually sign at some point.

By Astro Joe

November 2, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Ando, remember that the ‘06 draft was considered very weak by most “experts”. So I’m not sure he is a top 15 talent in a typical draft. I’m not sure that POB is anymore ready to contribute than a David Harrison was coming out of school (another UFA in the summer). As you know, the VAST majority of 7-footers require more time to develop than a PG/wing. And assuming that he gets minimal playing time this season, he will likely enter his 3rd year as a virtual rookie. I would still consider him a project based on his college conference (and the lack of big men he faced for 3-4 years) and his lack of NBA game-time experience. He’ll only be 22 next summer, so I would most definitely roll the dice, but I wouldn’t expect meaningful minutes from him in ‘08-09. And I wouldn’t offer more than 3/$9M.

By clubhawks

November 2, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

ClubHawks

By ray

November 2, 2007 5:32 PM | Link to this

SEKOU, damn right.

Nice smack-down you laid, and if you read what I posted closer to the end of the last blog (it was long-winded of course) you’ll see that my thoughts were rather in line with yours on Joe Johnson’s comments.

Mavid, thanks for the recognition. I probably went a little overboard in my passionate defense of JJ (who certainly doesn’t need me defending him), but it did seem like a lot of people were cutting him unjustly. But at least you were willing to reconsider and take another viewpoint (something I try to do when I remember to). Looks like nobody else involved did. Oh well, this IS a blog afterall. And I agree: I can’t tell exactly who’s to blame for what in this whole thing.

It’s funny. Billy doesn’t make certain moves. He acts like there’s no money. Ownership says he has the authority to do whatever he chooses. Billy says there are no good deal offers. The owners say there’s nothing standing in his way, but you KNOW they have to approve any deals made. So is Billy not bringing stuff to them? I mean, is the guy calling up teams and offering ridiculous ideas, turning away workable ideas from teams that come to him, and then saying there’s nothing on the table that makes sense? Is ownership not including the fact that they are trying to run on the cheap (the same thing they accused Belkin of) and therefore Billy has to do deals according to that? And what, if anything, does Belkin have to do with all of this? Like you said, no answers expected.

Well, two hours till tip off, or thereabouts. For those of you who are going to be there, I’ll be there with you in spirit, via DIRECTV. Yeah, baby!

By ray

November 2, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

Sekou, forgot to mention: nice shout out to PM Dawn. I recognized that as soon as I saw the blog title. Always good to go retro every now and again when it’s good stuff from “back in the day.” Don’t know what happened to those dudes, but sure miss their sound…

Kwame Brown? Hmmm. He would fit better in Chicago than he would here. He can score in the post some, but he’s hardly consistent doing so. He can grab some boards and run the floor, too. Again, not consistent. Ok, he’s 6’11 270lbs. Is he better than Zaza? I’d maybe take him if we could trade Wright and hell I don’t know…somebody. But he’s not going to be a real upgrade. Just an added piece.

By Floze

November 2, 2007 5:41 PM | Link to this

Man be a professional, be a leader, or be quiet. You haven’t said two words since you have been here and now you speak up? We are trying to start something here but you gotta go and do this. I haven’t had a problem with Joe until now but since we are all talking:

You were brought in here to be our point guard but that lasted one game.

We blew $6 million a year on your point guard replacement in Speedy Claxton.

We ripped our ownership apart to get you - thus limiting our ability to improve the team.

You lead us to 26 and 30 wins since you have been here.

You spent 25 games in a suit last year.

If you want to improve the team so much take a salery cut since you are not playing the position you are getting top dollar for, play hurt like Josh and Sheldon do, and drive to the basket so you can get to the line. After you do that, then let’s see if we can’t win more than 30 games a year to see if you are part of the problem or solution.

Oh, and go hawks.

By ray

November 2, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

Manny T, wrong song. Wrong artist.

Cowa, I dig what you’re saying. I’d go for O’Bryant or Butler. Both have the size, both are an upgrade over Wright and Shell. I say Shell because I figure at least Butler is bigger than Shell and would likely be more effective on defense while still getting at least the same production on the boards. O’Bryant is bigger and gives us a good cheap chance at a young center that can be developed along a proper time line. We won’t get another chance to draft one for a while, and probably won’t make a good trade for a more promising prospect, so this is the way to do it NOW.

But like Ando said….

By A Thinking Fan

November 2, 2007 5:51 PM | Link to this

What time is it? It’s almost “Game Time!

By doc

November 2, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

ando did you mean to say lebron was his actual age of 22 or the typo of 27? he will be 23 in december.

By ray

November 2, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Floze you’re so off base with that. I would argue each point you made, but somehow I know it would be a waste of effort on the keyboard. Like I said last blog, if you think Joe is a problem, go meet Kobe.

Would love to see you say that to Joe. Joe, who was only hurt because he averaged over 41mpg. Joe who did everything his coach asked him to do, including play out of position. Joe who did it all. But I doubt you have anymore kahones than you do brains.

By Ryder

November 2, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

I’m glad JJ said what he did. That should speak volumes about how he feels about this team.

Atlanta shouldn’t even consider thinking about any deals until after this season. They have to see if the two Joshes are able to have what it takes to place Atlanta in postseason contention.

Think about it: after this year Atlanta could lose a lot of their regular rotation players on this roster if they don’t make the playoffs, including their coach. They need to come out with a sense of urgency every night and not get lackadasical for stretches like they did in the third quarter of most games last year.

I expect them to win tonight. The fans need something to get excited about in the city and the Hawks are getting a Mavs team without their second best scorer.

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this

DOC, i think ANDO was bein’ ANDO on that one!!!LOL

By HB Ando

November 2, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

Joe, in general I agree. But I read an article a week or two back in which Nelson admitted that he may have been overly harsh in his assessment of O’Bryant last year, and that he had seen signs of legitimacy this pre-season. If he can get 10 minutes a night, this season, he’ll go to a team as more than your basic project big man. And I’ll maintain that he’s one of those players that could look drastically different with a change of scenery.

Again, not calling him the second coming of Ewing or Duncan, but I think he could emerge, sooner than later, as a legitimate anchor for a half-court defense. You’ll remember that Diaw was a throw away for Woody, and then he went to a system that fit, and that appreciated his skill set, and he was the MIP the very next season.

And who sang, “Cisco Kid was a friend of mine…….”?

Ray, going to the game with Jhan and Doc next week (Phoenix). Hopefully, I’ll remember to call you, when I’m at “half buzz/full rant” status. Just don’t call APD and give them my description before I drive home (“I don’t know what the cat looks like, but if you run into a tall, buzzed white guy, who thinks he knows everything about basketball, that might be him”)…..

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this

ANDO, the group WAR sang it.

i’ll keep an eye on POB out here. he only played 5 mins in the first game but he looked sound. definitely think he has potential…

By The Flash

November 2, 2007 6:54 PM | Link to this

bsk precisely my thoughts. Deng and Bynum here. JJ to LA, Smooth to Chicago, a big (Noah or Thomas to LA)> Maybe the Hawks get the Uconn guard in a swap sending Salem and Shelden.

That would leave the Hawks with a heck of a front line that could compete with anyone’s. The Uconn guy is the go to scorer.

LA ends up with JJ playing Kobe’s spot, and with Noah or Thomas as off the bench support in the middle.

I think it works. Might need some tweaking, but what else is the Andoman for? BTW, it wasn’t Pancho, was it?

Chicago fills Deng’s spot with the Euro guy whose name I forget,

By Ken Strickland

November 2, 2007 7:35 PM | Link to this

ANDO, again we are talking the same language. I meerly mention that Bynum hasn’t led the Lakers to new heights. You just explained why. I think JJ’s comments were about this very thing. He sees this team needing more veteran talent and leadership than more youth, potential or upside. I totally agree.

By Ken Strickland

November 2, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

I forgot to add that Lebron does look like he’s 27yrs old, and Oden looks like he could be his daddy.

By Ryder

November 2, 2007 7:49 PM | Link to this

No one from GS, LA, or anywhere else is making a deal with the Hawks, and why? The perception around the league and its players are a lot lower than you think. You guys overrate too many people like Bynum, and O’Bryant is GARBAGE. Nelson has no concept of how to build a team. Get it?

For that matter, why should Atlanta make a trade until the ownership mess is resolved? They have chemistry now so to ruin it with some insane fantasy deal is moronic.

So to quote Lamont Sanford, “stop it, just stop it.”

By The Flash

November 2, 2007 8:00 PM | Link to this

Ken This is just make believe. But Deng and Gordon haven’t exactly not proved themselves.

Bynum is a beast. When and if Kobe leaves, watch out. I think that Phil wants to keep the kid far away from Kobe and his knife. Kobe is a narcissist in a pathological sense. I wouldn’t touch him. But I think that either Chicago or Dallas really can’t resist. One of the two needs a third party to make this happen.

I look for a trade with Dallas the key player. Josh Howard is their main contribution. It will take another really talented player, and I am not sure that Dallas has one that LA would want.

You might well see Terry to the other LA and someone like Maggert to the real LA. My thought is that Livingston is done forever.

Other players will probably be involved.

By smartguy

November 2, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

Floze, ooh. I can’t disagree with any of that. I think what you said was pretty matter of fact. If Smooth said that, some of ya’ll would be calling for us to trade him. At first, I didn’t understand quite why JJ’s comments didn’t sit well with me, but Floze hit it right on the head.

By smartguy

November 2, 2007 8:02 PM | Link to this

Floze, ooh. I can’t disagree with any of that. I think what you said was pretty matter of fact. If Smooth said that, some of ya’ll would be calling for us to trade him. At first, I didn’t understand quite why JJ’s comments didn’t sit well with me, but Floze hit it right on the head.

By Wedgie Evans

November 2, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith and Al Horford are lookin’ like the TRUTH!

By Who Is More Dramatical?

November 2, 2007 8:09 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith is NASTY! NASTY! NASTY! If he is not a superstar in the next year or two, something has seriously gone wrong. Right now there is only one player on the court for either team and that is J-Smoove. Well, Harris is playing good too. The Hawks have to make the playoffs this year. Josh Smith is ridiculous. Good Lord he is all over place in the first quarter. He’s playing xbox sick right now. Horford looking good running the floor as well. Mad athletic team. I

Is it just me or is Josh Smith much thicker this year? - in a good way.

we are watching a boy turn into a man before our eyes in this first quarter.

law ain’t looking bad so far either.

joe johnson has not even gotten himself started yet.

By David

November 2, 2007 8:09 PM | Link to this

Al Horford OMG. Dude is a BEAST! This team has been fun to watch in Q1.

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 8:25 PM | Link to this

man, the team looks soooooo much smoother with ACIE in the game!!!

By Who Is More Dramatical?

November 2, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

marvin williams is playing like a spaz. he looks terribly lost out there. he doesn’t hustle enough. doesn’t move without the ball hard enough. looks like he just wanders around the court lost like he does not know where to go or does not want to run around and have people pass it to him. who knows? i’m just getting angry watching him right now. joe johnson, josh smith, horford, law, lue are playing hard - even without the ball looking to get the ball. i’m real disappointed right now with marvin.

KILLING THE MAVS!

this just in: shelden williams is GABRAGE!

marvin is playing pretty good team defense right now though.

Eddie Jones is still alive?!?!?!?!?

ACIE LAW - WOW! What drives he is putting on right now!!!

tough assignment for marvin with dirk right now.

By Floze

November 2, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

ray - waiste the key strokes. what part of my post was untrue?

By Who Is More Dramatical?

November 2, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this

why is that moron rathbun saying that horford is playing better than josh smith? did he watch the same first quarter i did? there was only one reason they jumped out to that HUGE lead: Josh Smith! Horford played good and had nice dunks but most of his dunks were set up by the play of smith. Wake up rathbun. You are missing a good game.

nice missed dunk childress. what a doofus.

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

CHILS havin’ a rough 1st half…

ACIE is CLEARLY the best PG on the team!!!!

By Eric

November 2, 2007 8:38 PM | Link to this

couple quick thoughts…

horford looks like a polished vet out there. and he’s taking it to the mavs with those explosive dunks.

law looks like the pg of the future. finally…enough of claxton!

we need to cut down on the TO’s….it’s great we are trying to run, but we need to be efficient doing it.

Shelden Williams will get no run when Pachulia gets back. He’s terrible. That pass by Smith on the fast break went right off his knee. Horford would have caught and finished that.

By JohnGTFan

November 2, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this

Can I get an update on how everyone looks? I’m in DC and have no access to the game. Thanks

By kwooden1

November 2, 2007 8:52 PM | Link to this

As said Law is the clear starter and Horford is just what the Hawks needed! Chills is struggling, but he won’t miss many more dunks. I have to give Woodson some run because his rotations, hopefully he keeps this up. And Yes, Shelden Williams won’t be in the NBA long unless he has a transformation.

Be back after the 2nd Half!!

By David

November 2, 2007 8:55 PM | Link to this

John the Hawks are looking really good. They weathered a Dallas comeback run to end the first half, and are up by 7. The two rooks have been fantastic. Also, our boy Mario made a brief cameo to end the half and played nice D on Jason Terry.

Anyone know why AJ started the game and then went to the bench after only a few minutes? Not that I don’t want Law out there, just curious why dude got benched.

By TJ

November 2, 2007 9:06 PM | Link to this

AJ got benched because he got two quick fouls in barely over 3 minutes.

I cannot watch the game here, but it surely looks like Horford is the real deal for us. Cant wait til Law gets more minutes in the second half to see what he can do. As always, Josh Smith is being Josh Smith. What a mistake it will be to not have extended his contract earlier this year…

By Floze

November 2, 2007 9:07 PM | Link to this

How good do Acie and Horford look at the half - man how impressive. I thought Law was a jump shooter but not the way he is getting to the cup. Horford is playing GREAT - against what looks like a man twice his size in Diop.

Joe is in mid-season form - maybe better. Josh deserves to be locked up until he is 30. It’s like he is playing highschool kids out there. Mavs aren’t hitting from outside.

By A Thinking Fan

November 2, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

It is the fouls on AH that will be the drawback in him playing the 5 spot…

By Ramon

November 2, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

Will the people who stated Josh Smith needed to be traded in favor of Marvin Williams raise your hand………..(looking……..looking…….. looking…) Thank you!!!

By TJ

November 2, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

After being up by 10 after the 1st Q, they are only up by 1 now. They must continue to push the ball and cut down on costly turnovers. They can easily win this game. Let’s hope Horford can get that double double before accumulating two more fouls.

By Dramatical

November 2, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this

two missed dunks now by childress. again, what a doofus.

well, as hot as josh smith was in the first quarter, he is just cold in the third quarter. how can someone look so good and so bad in the very same game. but the hawks need to lock that kid up from here to eternity.

joe johnson is amazing. a machine.

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

DAVID, AJ went to the bench ‘cause of fouls in the 1st.

half-court offense sucks!!!

HORFORD makes ALL THE DIFFERENCE on the court. and you are right ATF…HORFORD gotta be smart about the fouls…

back to the game…

By Floze

November 2, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

Smartguy,

If you are like me you are a Hawks fan that was soooooooo disappointed in Joe’s comments. His words drove a wedge between Joe as a player and my team, who I have so much hope for at the start of the season. I mean lord, we haven’t had a winning season since Clinton and then Joe decides to get verbal? We have the talent on THIS roster to make the playoffs but everything has to go right for that to happen. Joe’s new found tongue is one example of things not going right and damging the fragile psyche of our young team.

The truth is I love Joe but you can’t point a finger at the Brass without pointing it at yourself. We are where we are due in large part to Joe Johnson for the reasons I stated earlier. Not acknowledging that is just not intellectually honest at best - over your head at worst.

By TJ

November 2, 2007 9:35 PM | Link to this

This game is so close that it is giving me heart attacks—and I’m just watching the updating box score! If they can beat the Mavs and end this rough stretch of the first five games or so, then they may be for real this year.

By David

November 2, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

Noooooo….Horford with a 5th foul. Argh. Come on Hawks, you can do it!

By TJ

November 2, 2007 9:41 PM | Link to this

I disagree. Joe didnt do anything wrong with his comments. He spoke up and said what every sensible fan already thinks. He is trying to step up even more as a leader—and I like that. His comments needed to be said because he is 100% right. The FO had the cap space and favorable circumstances to make a big splash this year in Free Agency, but did not do so once again. Oh well…

By A Thinking Fan

November 2, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

Has JJ had a rest this half?

By David

November 2, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

Wow, great drive by Josh Smith.

By A Thinking Fan

November 2, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

Floze u sound like a disgruntled owner name Belkin!

By JohnGTFan

November 2, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

what is josh smith doing…i don’t hear the praises like in the 1st half! Unreal with his 3 pt attempts, turnovers, and fouls

By JohnGTFan

November 2, 2007 9:58 PM | Link to this

this late 4th quarter defense is looking all too familiar

By JohnGTFan

November 2, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

Boy have we missed TLue or what!!! I wish I could see the game..have to watch the%%%% gamecast on espn

By David

November 2, 2007 10:00 PM | Link to this

Marvin Williams holy crap! Awesome layup. And Tyronne Lue, my gosh. Looks like he didn’t need much work in the preseason anyway. Bring it home!

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

playin’ with a lotta heart!!!!

By Floze

November 2, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

I think where I disagree with Thinking Fan and TJ is that Joe isn’t an objective, unvested fan. HIS WORDS MATTER AND OURS DO NOT. To throw his team under the bus like that was uncalled for. If he wants to become vocal and outwardly critical then he should be held accountable for his role in our record the past two seasons as well. Who can argue with that fact?

Nuff said about that becuase we are looking good despite what Joe says about who we need to add to this roster.

By A Thinking Fan

November 2, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

JJ say whatever the heck you want to say! You delivered tonight my man!

By Don

November 2, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

Hawks Win! Hawks Win! The H-H-H-H-Hawks Win!

By smartguy

November 2, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

**What?

Can you hear it??**

Thats the sound of Josn Smith’s value going up. Great idea to wait it out. Was he perfect? No, but pretty darn awesome. MAXXX it out. Can the Spirit pony up?

Congrats on the win, and even a little credit to Woody

By smartguy

November 2, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

**What?

Can you hear it??**

Thats the sound of Josn Smith’s value going up. Great idea to wait it out. Was he perfect? No, but pretty darn awesome. MAXXX it out. Can the Spirit pony up?

Congrats on the win, and even a little credit to Woody.

By wester

November 2, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

AWESOME GAME!!!!! AND WE WON!! 1-0 BABY!!! GOOOOOO HAWWWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By kwooden1

November 2, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

HAWKS WIN! HAWKS WIN!

Nice job by all the guys, Smooth and Chills had some tough moments, but they stuck with it. Lue was great and JJ played like an All-Star. Great way to begin the season.

Go Hawks!!!

By David

November 2, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

Floze, JJ did not throw the team under the bus. He just wants management to keep trying to improve the team. He didn’t single out any player on the team. He’s hungry, and he wants a championship. You’re not going to get that with this team for several years. Joe has big aspirations, and I saw nothing wrong with his comments.

Great win by the Hawks! They showed great poise down the stretch to win it. Great play by Marvin and JJ and Lue in the closing minutes. Even Shelden did a good job, grabbing a bunch of rebounds in limited minutes.

I’m impressed with the team after tonight.

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

great win!!! they hung in there…PERIOD!!!

lotta cats came thru. still lovin’ the rooks!!! BIG SHOT JJ!! BIG SHOT LUE!!! good all-around game by SMOOVE!! great roll to the basket by MARVIN in that last minute gettin’ the assist from JJ!!

WOODSON even deserves props for his rotations!! they actually made sense!!!

the team REALLY played with a lotta heart and desire!!!!

By Matty M

November 2, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

Joe in no way threw his team under the bus Floze.

By A-ville Ranger

November 2, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

I live in NC where the games are blacked out.Still following on computer gives me a different perspective.First great win to start the season.Judging by the rebounds to minutes played it looks like both Sheldon and Horford were aggressive underneath the basket.Second we lost more games late in games by shooting bad jumpers last season than any other way.It was good to see all the layups to finish the game tonight.The one thing I didn’t like was all the missed shots by Smith.After all that work with Hakim he goes 5-16 and 0-4 on threes.If he’s going to be great and a go to guy he has to lose his infatuation with jump shots.All in all though a great way to start the season.

By The Flash

November 2, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Thinkingman Maybe JJ can smell the coffee on Rodeo Drive; ever think of that? Maybe he’s trying to put it out there to LA, “Hey, don’t forget about me.”

The old conspiracy theorist himself, just spinning one, is all. Stop stompin on my boy, btw; it ain’t becoming and you don’t have much becoming to be giving any away. LOL, my man.

By David

November 2, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Also, for being a relatively small team, the Hawks sure did rebound well tonight. One more board for Shelden and the Hawks have 3 guys with double-digit rebounds. Definitely didn’t expect that.

By Lacsho

November 2, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Congratulations Hawk Fans!!! This game was for you.

Peace!!!!!

By Floze

November 2, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

Agreed - Great great win against a bonified championship team. The rookies looked great but it was Joe, Josh and T-Lue that pushed us over the edge tonight.

If we can do this without Zaza and Speedy, does that mean for those two going forward?

By smartguy

November 2, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

Floz, I had gone back to re-read the article earlier. JJ did actually give credit to the guys currently on the team. I do agree with what you said, but maybe you are overreacting a bit. My question for Joe is: which free agents did he want us to go after? There haven’t been any “sure thing, good deals.” We could have signed another player or two, but who knows if it would have worked, and like I keep saying, I want us to use all available money (if there is any) to maintain our current group.

By Kappy

November 2, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

Hey All. Long time, no post for me. But I’ve been keeping up. Great game tonight and nice to see Philips sold out! This town is desperate for a winner.

A couple of observations:

1) I see no future for Salim Stoudamire, Lorenzen Wright, or Anthony Johnson on this team. All 3 are FA’s at the end of the year and would be valuable expiring contracts for some team in the league. Once the lineups and roations get set, find what you need, and make a trade.

2) Did I just see us win a game with Al Horford and Shelden Williams rotating at Center? Hilarious. Either its the new NBA, or the Mavs are soft. I don’t see this working against, say, Indiana. O’Neal, Foster, and Harrison would manhandle that crew. But they played well tongiht, especially and quietly Shelden.

3) We need point guard defense. Dare I say Speedy might help? Before he got hurt, Devin Harris killed us, JT lit us up and that scrappy Barea kid carried them for a while. That’s unacceptable.

But all in all, great energy, great win. Stay the course on the road fellas…

By A Thinking Fan

November 2, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

AH set the tone! Tough as nails! Sooooo Solid!

By CDS

November 2, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this

It is so refreshing to see these guys actually playing with some heart. JJ is stepping up and being the leader on the court, and Lue is just money in the 4th quarter.

J-Smoove, keep playing for that paycheck. You deserve it. The team isn’t the only thing that improved. Mike Woodson actually looked like he knew what he was doing tonight.

If this is a sign of things to come, sky’s the limit. Keep it up guys!

GO HAWKS!!!!

By doc

November 2, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

great game, irony is that they had to work so hard to win at it was as a 5’ 8” undrafted point guard put our top two draft picks on the bench due to fouls. as they become smarter then look out. i really liked the way horford came out but it was a real team game. 1st quarter was sweet.

guys, i’ll be there wednesday to see the suns with an invite from jhan sitting next to ando. it is going to be fun to stomp my feet a bit watching folks go up and down the court.

By Ken Strickland

November 2, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

It’s not the win that excites me the most, it’s the way we won. We started the gm running, with a lot of emotion, and jumped out to a big lead. After Dallas made their run and took the lead, this young, talented team didn’t blink once. Every single player stepped up and played hard. Congratulations Hawks!!!!

Are their any more of you out there still foolish enough to think AHorford can’t play the 5? He went up against a starting frontline featuring two 7 footers. They played 38 and 32mins respectively to Horfords 23mins. They had 13 rebs total and he had 10, and foul trouble affected his total. ALaw was/is aces. When he gets his feet wet, look out. His unbelievable quickness and penetrating ability is a perfect compliment to JJ’s overall gm.

By Floze

November 2, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

I just want the best for this team - I am a long suffering hawks fan like all of us on this blog. WHen I saw his comments, I saw the potential damage and lack of accountability on his own part.

Truth be known - if Al and AC play the way they did today, they could be the pieces Joe was looking for all along. Ironic really.

By Jim

November 2, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

For those of you that said Shelden was a terrible 5th pick …. you’re right. That said, he was huge in the 2nd half tonight. Key boards , hustle and D to take us home with Al in foul trouble. Its great that because of our past ineptitude and continual lottery picks we don’t have to rely on him as a key starter. He’s a key part of our amazing depth. Yeah, I said it. AMAZING depth. Minus our projected starting center and point guard, we were still a quality 9 deep today. What a nice change. 82-0 boys … Well, how bout 42-40. Go Hawks !

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

a few more observations…

1) HORFORD makes sooooo much difference in the startin’ unit. he a beast on the boards and just a smart player.

2) as much energy as SMOOVE brought, espacially in the 1st half, he really does some bone-headed things at the MOST ILL-ADVISED times. he’s got the tools but he’s just gotta play smarter!!! but he was a difference maker in the 1st half, no doubt!!

3) i have to admit, AJ showed me NOTHIN’ tonite!!!!! maybe a bad game but as soon as ACIE sub’d for him the team immediately played better!!! ACIE should be put in the startin’ lineup as early as the next game. he makes THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE!!!

4) it’s clear to see what his role is and should be. he and JJ definitely work well together. and i think you can see that JJ trust him with the ball. so maybe ACIE and LUE should be the primary rotation!!???!!! again, i was definitely disappointed in AJ.

5) i just do not see where SALIM will get minutes from!!

6) JJ played a lotta minutes but i think it was mainly due to CHILS havin’ such a rough game. but CHILS still grabbed 6 offensive boards!!!

7) MARVIN was solid. gotta check his game out some more.

it was great bein’ able to follow the team thru a telecast for a change!! GREAT WIN YOUNG GUNS!!

By HB Ando

November 2, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

Nice win. No need to dissect it, or attempt to put it in perspective (no Dampier in the middle explains a lot about our success on the boards).

Very nice. Holding home court is what they have to do. 70% at home, and no less than 30% on the road, is .500. And while I’ll stick with my 36 prediction, I’d be happy to be wrong.

Josh Smith just showed everyone how to go 5-16 from the field and still have a major impact on the floor. There really isn’t anyone like him in the league right now. The Spirit are going to have to come to terms with the reality that this kid will get anywhere from the 5/$65 M that Jefferson just got, all the way up to the max. Or they’re going to have to sign-and-trade. The money will be on the table, come summer. It’s either ante up, or leverage his perceived value for a big man (and, contrary to someone earlier, I don’t like a Smith for Biedrins swap; I like Biedrins, but not Josh Smith LIKE).

I’ll say it again: Al can play some five for about 35-40 games. Then he’s going to hit the wall hard, as the bigs grind him down. Nobody smacks that rookie wall like a first-year, slightly undersized, post player (not a knock, just a thought).

Can’t wait ‘till Wednesday, when I get to rant it out with Doc and JHan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The irony of watching us play Phoenix, knowing they get our unprotected first-rounder next summer, will be more than I can stand.

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

of course, in my point #4 i was talkin’ about LUE…

By Mike

November 2, 2007 11:12 PM | Link to this

Guys I ain’t going to gloat, it’s only one game, but you know I made the call.

Doc, you’re a little wishy washee bro, you’re either down are you’re not. It’s no way you can minimize this win after Dallas beat the brakes off Cleveland at home. Give my boys some respect. They showed guile and tenacity to pull out a win when nobody gave them a chance Hell to win this game.

All you can say is GO HAWKS Bro. Give it up Bro. I could easy get upset because my boy Salim didn’t play, but a win is a win, and this a Hugeeeeeeeeeeeeee win. Let my boys enjoy their day in the sunshine.

AH guys, who da man folks, you already know how far he’s going to go. Acie is the real deal too.

HA UH, HA UH HA HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!!

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Mike

November 2, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

Guys excuse me for my unbridle exuberance, but I just watch my boys do their thing tonight. My baddddddddddddddddd.

GO HAWK!!!!!!!!

By mykhalc

November 2, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

ANDO, my first impression is that i can see your desired lineup endin’ up bein’ the one in the future. again first impression, but i do not see them keepin’ MARVIN instead of SMOOVE if that ends up bein’ the choice. JS just brings too much to the court, bonehead plays and all!!

i’d totally be surprised to see JS, HORFORD, and ZAZA as the front court as long as MARVIN is here. but i could definitely see JS, AH, and the ‘new’ center as the future front court. this much we know tho…JS and AH HAVE TO be on the court!!!

By hawk bandwagon driver

November 2, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this

First Stop. 41,872 fair weather fans hop on. “Welcome aboard the HIGHLIGHT FACTORY EXPRESS”, I inform with a smirk. ‘Hold tight and don’t jump off till the final stop..PLAYOFF LAND’.

By belicious

November 2, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

never commented here before, but have read for a few years. I have season tickets (9th year) center court 5 rows up. During last year I was never disappointed in all the games Imade it to (34). Mostly the hawks kept up. This game tonight was awesome! Granted they lost a huge lead in the 2nd, but they were always in it and stuck it out for the win!!! All I have to say is, they looked great, they fought hard, and they deserved the win! GO HAWKS!!!!

By HB Ando

November 2, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

Here’s a positive observation, as I still try to assess who we are better than (rather than how good we think we have become; which I think underscores JJ’s “concerns”):

We’ve always struggled with the ever-struggling Bobcats. And adding J Rich didn’t make us anymore intimidating, on paper. But, as a guy who plays fantasy hoops, and who just checked out the box for the Bobs home win over the Bucks, I see a lineup of 3 guys who cannot shoot FT’s. Wallace, Okafor and J Rich?

Wow. How many games you gonna win with a 22-43 from the line? 21 misses from the stripe!!!

Hope springs eternal.

Even if we’re still a 36 win team…………

By Astro Joe

November 2, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this

I went to the game and the atmosphere was the best that I can recall in the past 9 years. It took a while for the arena to “believe” but once they did, it was a really fun place to be.

A few observations from some pretty good seats… Our depth is for real. 30 points/18 boards/7 assists from the bench. We got key contributions from our 3rd string PG (Lue) and 3rd string center (Shelden). Dirk is a juggernaut. Marvin scored well in 2nd half after struggling early. I don’t think he did much of that last year, turn a lemon into lemonade. And he put forth tremendous effort on defense. Dirk is a match-up nightmare. Penetrating guards hurt us, not so much because of a lack of a defensive center as much as the lack of a quick PG to stop dribble penetration. Horford got in foul trouble because PGs left him exposed. I think Mourning would have had problems staying out of foul trouble the way we allowed guards to get to the rim tonight. Law is a baller. Don’t try to categorize him as a player, just give him the ball and watch the team excel. AJ had a Royal Ivey kind of game. Childress’ afro was crooked and dude was just out-of-sync the entire game. Joe played a very smart game. He took off the first 7 minutes of the 4th quarter. He was on the floor, but he exerted little energy while Lue and Marvin did the heavy lifting on offense. When the Hawks got the ball with less than 5 minutes on the game clock, Joe got re-engaged. Also, did you notice how he took on Dirk once he got hot? LEADERSHIP! Sure, he gave up 5 inches, but he defended him hard. SuperJoe is my hero!

Smith is a glass half-full/half-empty player. His contract will likely depend on the team’s success. For evey block of a center’s dunk, there is indifferent on-ball defense (which is best evaluated when watching him live). For every sweet assist there is a brainless turnover. For every pro his agent will bring to the table, BK could potentially have a con. The tie-breaker needs to be the team’s record.

Oh yeah and that guy Dirk, whew. He’s a handful. I’m glad we only have to see him 1 more time.

Ando, I hear you about Dampier and they certainly missed Devin Harris and Josh Howard, too. But we do have depth. And 9 boards from our 3rd string center and 14 points from our 3rd string PG ain’t too bad. No one will put an asterisk next to our losses when we’re missing key players, no need to qualify our victories.

1-2-3 PLAYOFFS!

By Floze

November 2, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this

Let’s talk about Acie Law - a true difference maker in tonight’s game. When was the last time you saw a Hawks point guard take the ball to the cup on FIVE seperate occasions?

I was a Mike Conley fan for that reason but Acie has proved to be the same ball control driver as Conley. Horford was great. Period. Exclamation Point! But ZaZa has had similar numbers and impact at the 5 spot. We didn’t have an Acie Law type PG last year and we should have more victories than losses this season because of him.

By Steve T

November 2, 2007 11:53 PM | Link to this

Last season, the hawks would have lost this game. Let us look at the positives. If the Hawks can close game out that could mean 10 more wins than last season.

The most positive thing is the Hawks are not at full strength. Zaza has not played yet. If Al and Shelden continue to play strong, then Zaza would only make the Hawks better.

By Ken Strickland

November 3, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

BELICIOUS, good to see you come out and join us. I hope you stay. Regardless of the # of gms we win this yr, they should all be exciting.

FLASH, in response to your earlier post, I have to agree with your assessment on the Kobe/Bynum issue. Kobe’s whining may indicate he’s finally realized he’s no MJordan, and can’t single handedly carry a team anywhere.

By HB Ando

November 3, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this

How silly do the Bulls feel, right now, for paying a juiced-up Ben Wallace $60M for 4 years, and then watching the inevitable, rapid decline, in production, as better processes are implemented for drug-testing, in the NBA.

I think the Pistons knew (just like the Giants knew about Bonds, and reinforced by cutting him loose as soon as he had broken Hank’s record) that he would drop off quickly, and wasn’t worth the crazy money that the Bulls paid him.

2 games: 8 points, 9 boards.

Nuff said.

By ray

November 3, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this

Yesss, I’ll take that win. Nice way to open the season. And while it can be chopped up and examined…I’ll take it. No ifs ands or butts.

Ando, looking forward to that. Wish I could be there with y’all, but a buzzed out conversation will be fun anyhow. Hey, I wouldn’t rat ya out, but be careful or you might run afoul of some rookie cop, lookin’ for his first chance at some “action.” Lol!

By ray

November 3, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

FLOZE, if you insist…but keep in mind this is a “point of view” type of argument.

First, JJ may not have been completely the leader we needed him to be the last couple years, but he hasn’t been a bad one or a bad teammate.

Second, the ownership group tore themselves apart because they all (except Belkin) agreed that they should mortgage whatever to get JJ. Belkin said “by all means get him, but don’t overpay so much.” And JJ refutes your argument FLOZE by saying in the article how much he appreciated the Hawks not being scared off and being determined to get him. So your point there is way off. You cannot possibly blame that ownership foolishness on JJ. Only on the owners.

Third: Having JJ, who has never been a pg, actually play point guard was Billy’s dumb idea. The guy is a sg or sf. NOT A PG. I can’t believe Woody went along with this. JJ was/is the team’s best offensive threat. You can’t correctly utilize such a resource by making him run the offense and then try to set himself up. Hence the constant double teams he faced. Again, not his fault.

Fourth: how the devil do you get off blaming the Speedy fiasco on JJ? Billy Knight is the guy who blew this amount of money on historically injured guy. Had he DRAFTED one, like a sensible person, he wouldn’t need to spend so much on a broken-down FA. Even then, guys like Earl Watson and Luke Ridnour were available through trade if the right offers/moves were made. That was Knight’s blunder. One stupid idea (JJ at point) led to another one (oh, let’s sign Mr. Broken Knees Claxton).

Speaking of which, you want JJ to play hurt? Do you know how hurt he was when he went down? Oh that’s brilliant…play hurt so that he can turn out like Speedy and be a $70 million + waste (more than twice Speedy’s pay). Brilliant, I say, brilliant. You play hurt when it’s a playoff game. You play hurt when it actually makes a difference, not when you’re sunk anyway and run the risk of further, more damaging injury. Sheldon played hurt, yeah I know. Funny, now he’s healthy and you know what? He looks the same as he did when he was hurt…All of this stuff you can attribute to management and ownership.

JJ is not a divisive force, and he has done nothing but support his teammates and coach. You want to blame the win total on JJ? Fine, but remember what it was before he got here: 13 games. And remember that Woody runs this team, not JJ. Like I said, it’s about perspective and point of view.

By the way, the guy you say can’t lead just led us to the season’s first win. I’d say his play, just like last season, says it all. You DID see the game…didn’t you?

By HB Ando

November 3, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this

Seriously, Big Ray. I ran into him, in Gwinnett, at a road block, about 7 years ago. Dude was like 5’4, and, get this, his name was something like “Shrunk”. My lawyer even asked him, during the motions’ hearing, if I exhibited any impairment, when they asked me to back my car from the middle of a six-lane road, over to the shoulder. Answer was no. Just the subjective, “smell of alcohol”. Spent $7K before I even made it to trial. And then my scumbag lawyer told me it would be another $5K, to go to trial, with no promises, and Gwinnett’s version of a hanging judge.

Buddy of mine was a long-time, local attorney, and told me I was paying for the sins of my predecessors, as my guy’s record was like 55-4, and so nobody on the prosecution side would deal with him, or his ego. I learned a lot about local politics. $7K to plead guilty.

Not coincidentally, I’m not a very big fan of Gwinnett County law enforcement.

Or lawyers (though that position long preceeded that particular bumble%$&*).

Call you on Wednesday. Book it, Dano!

By ray

November 3, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this

I’d never try to compare Pachulia and Horford by simple numbers. Look at the defense and type of rebounding production you get from Horford. He blocked some shots and and would’ve gone for an easy double-double were it not for foul trouble.

Look at Horford’s footwork. He spaces himself well (not perfect, but better than ANY of our other bigs). His defense was straight up and fearless…not floppy. And unlike Pachulia, he doesn’t need a few jumpers to get him going on the rest of his game. Nope. Totally different kind of player.

Again, guys like Ando are right. He’s still not a center and we don’t need to beat the crap out of him by playing him as one all the time. One thing is for certain, though. Dude will ferociously grab a rebound, send it ahead, then run like a demon and finish the break with authority. We’ve been missing that. And it’s awesome to see. You know what? His handles are better than Smoove’s…and he knows when to give up the ball before getting too far into the teeth of the defense. I LOVE this guy.

Meanwhile, I appreciate the work-man like effort of Sheldon on the boards. Still say he looks clumsy on offense and defense. His footwork is bad anywhere beyond 5 feet from the basket and it seems like he doesn’t get his hands up quick enough (or get off his feet quick enough)to truly contest shots. That may be why he rarely blocks shots of as-tall or taller offensive players (or guys who can simply jump a bit). Rather, he gets a hand on their forearms. He can’t finish in traffic either (Horford can).

Can’t say he doesn’t get a good number of rebounds though.

By ray

November 3, 2007 12:45 AM | Link to this

Ando, they gotta feel like total a$$. I wonder if they knew what the Pistons knew, though. Hmmmm. At least they draft well enough to recoup (i.e. Noah and possibly Gray). And they still have a large number of pieces to work with. We can’t recoup from mistakes like that, although Law is already making me feel better about the Speedy fiasco…although not as good as I’d like to feel.

By mykhalc

November 3, 2007 12:49 AM | Link to this

JOE, my posts echo what you posted. guess we saw this game thru the same rose colored glasses bro!!LOL SWEET WIN!!! give ACIE the ball…PERIOD!!!

By ray

November 3, 2007 12:53 AM | Link to this

Smoove certainly knows how to fill the stat sheet. Just wish he would quit it with his 3 point attempts. I wonder if he has figured out why it would seem that virtually none of his jumpshot attempts are really all that contested (if at all)?

Lue shows once again why it is that you want him as one of your veteran pgs.

Marvin went to the basket better than I’m used to seeing him do. Bravo. LOVE that jumpshot. If he’ll let Smoove borrow that jumper, Smoove will average 26ppg, I swear.

By HB Ando

November 3, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

Got your back, Ray. I don’t see any downside to JJ’s conversation with SS. He didn’t submarine any of his teammates. He simply intimated that he was led to expect some franchise moves, to build with/around his acquisition.

I find his conclusion fairly supportive of some of us overly-analytical cynics. The general construct is that better decision could have been made, in line with consensus wisdom, outside the organization. And they have zigged almost every time they should have zagged.

Does that mean they won’t be better this year? From tonights’ opener, probably night. But this is still an imbalanced roster, which projects to fall short of the 8th seed.

This reality is on just about everyone, and anyone, but JJ. I just don’t see another perspective that is compelling, with regards to JJ.

All I can hope for is that Marvin, Shelden and/or one of the vet PG’s have enough early season production that they seem like a compelling package for potentially high, first-round picks, or a plausible big.

A 2, 3 and 4, build around JJ, Smoove and Horford, is a real compelling core. If Law is for real, then the rapid, potential ascent is that much more probably. But Marvin, Shelden, maybe even J. Chill, a Zaza, there’s got to be a plausible match for a realistic solution at five.

Horford, scrapping for solid numbers at the five, just immediately underscores how much easier his production could come at his natural position of the PF.

Anyhoo…….

By ray

November 3, 2007 1:03 AM | Link to this

Ando, I think I see a little more now into your overall subjective feeling towards law enforcement. Can’t say that I blame you, either. It would be heavily biased and false of me to do so. As for attorneys…well, I have had my own experiences both good and bad. All too often both sides are in bed with each other as it is. But I better back off before I say something to offend my man Flash.

Oh, one other thing (heh, heh). While this is not to be considered the norm in all cases, a large number of authority figures (or just read: police officers) who are “vertically challenged” tend to have what we call “little man’s disease”. The proverbial chip on the shoulder, even to their workmates. He probably didn’t feel so great dealing with a guy who eclipsed him by more than a foot. So much for professional and courteous, eh?

By ray

November 3, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this

Ando, appreciate it. I thought you particularly could appreciate what Joe had to say. Or vice versa if he were chatting with you. He might be a bit more guarded about what he had to say, but I doubt he’d even bat an eyelash at it, knowing it to be truth. We really need someone who knows how to spin that perfect web…the kind that feels all the vibrations around the league and is always looking for the right opportunity to add the right kind of players to this roster. The one that can get past his own “I shall remake things in my own image” twisted-a$$ vision…

By ray

November 3, 2007 1:12 AM | Link to this

Ando, I’m still on nights ‘til Thursday of next week. If you’re just chillin’ give me a buzz. I’m the only one up this time of night…well, unless one of my dogs thinks I’m getting a snack…sneaky b*******…

By honest_abe

November 3, 2007 5:51 AM | Link to this

strange feeling. haven’t had too many nights when the hawks actually hold a 4th quarter lead against a good team. feels nice.

there were plenty of great highlights last night but the one that really sticks out was the one where jj drove with the shot clock winding down… got doubled, passed to marvin cutting through the lane and marv finished strong with his left hand over dirk. if marvin plays like that this year, this teams got a fighting chance to do some good things.

you couldn’t help but notice the void in the middle.. horford played well and so did shelden but a lack of a big showed as doc mentioned when little barrea kept waltzing into the lane free…

anywhooo.. no need to talk about what went wrong… great win!!

horford is a beast.

too late to put in my prediction for the upcoming year? i said 42 a week ago… i think i meant 41. jj will be an all star. horford will win roy. and josh smith will have one amazing season.

gooooo hawks.

where you at sam? how bout them knicks eh? they looked real sharp. HA!

i know it’s only the first week but my analysis for the way the east would shake out looks pretty much on point. thank you, thank you. you guys can call me nostradamus.

By honest_abe

November 3, 2007 6:01 AM | Link to this

last couple of things.

talking on the phone in line at any place is downright rude and obnoxious. period.

anybody see my boy felton last night?? 15 trips to the line. he’s going to have a baron davis like year. yeah!

By Glutton For Punishment

November 3, 2007 7:43 AM | Link to this

Ok.. ok… Jhan / Ando / Doc. You guys are talking about the game Weds. I was thinking about going.. I am sure other fans of this blog might be going.. What section? We might need to start a (NEW) Hawks fanatics !! Go Hawks !!!

By doc

November 3, 2007 8:16 AM | Link to this

mike, how can you say i am wishy washy? i gave cred big time for a great win and kept my comments very short. i did say very subtly what many screamed loud about including astro. he also said similar comments that were both favorable and cautious about the obvious when you look down the road at how teams will attack us when they see what the guards did to put our “starting” point guard on the bench for a significant lack of defense and how they put both our rookies on the bench due to fouls because of a quick guard that penetrated deep to either go to the rim unhampered or to drop it off on the way in to a waiting mother of a man named dirk. sad to say their little guy was undrafted, the smallest guy on the roster of either team, played college ball against the likes of ga state who he had his career game against in college with 24 points and 10 assists and was only out there because their starting guard who was scoring points at will got hurt trying to get in the way of our man child of josh smith drive.

gee mike, maybe i am wrong but dont you think maybe just maybe other teams will take notice and will continue to go right at the heart of the hawks problems for the last three years, no quickness or quality at point and the lack of an imposing big to reject either the ball or the player coming down the lane. when acie can show he can stop it or horford can do the same while staying in the game so be it and a hurrah with the playoffs attached, otherwise it will be a huge load for our middle 2,3 and undersized 4 to try to take the brunt of during the season.

dont take it wrong i loved seeing what acie was able to do on several trips down the court, but just like the adjustments made on j. smith to cut off his lanes to the basket the same occured for acie. horford was also very fun to watch as he finished. just the same i thought sheldon played a credible game last night as a replacement and stayed out of foul trouble doing it.

i think it is going to be a fun year and have set my expectations accordingly. remember when you are crying i might be saying something positive even though it comes in a loss. i also ask that they compete hard each night whether they win or not. that didnt happen last year. maybe the added depth will help to put that behind them. their legacy from last year is the widest point differential for losses of any team; that is saying they lost by more than any other team in the league in spite of the oft time mentioned thought that they were competitve to the end of many games. they simply weren’t anymore than any other sub .500 team, yes in other words when they lost they were very, very bad.

i will say very loudly with you, GOOOOO HAAAAWKS!

now mike do you understand it isnt trying to take a moment of fun away from it? it was a blast to sit at home and watch a game all the way through and see some very good stuff and i really look forward to the opportuntiy to see how they match up with phoenix. would you not agree though that they had better be ready to run and to make a few more of those open jumpers that i noticed jj, marvin and sheldon missed last night? cant allow that and stay in it if the sharpshooters of nash and company are on their game. cant wait and again thank jhan. might even wear my retro 2006-07 jersey for the fun of it. heh heh

By doc

November 3, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

gfp, look for you. i will let jhan speak for the location but i will allow that they are the second row back off the floor behind the opposing team bench, yes, in the middle of the action. look for moe, larry and curly together two or three seats in and ill be curly though not bald the shortest hair of the three at about 6’3” beneath the behemoth and beast ando. basically we sit in what is the bench during hockey games.

maybe i can buy you a beer and a pretzel that is right at the top of the section we go through to get into the seats at halftime. glad to see you are away from the books a bit. see ya there or let us know how to get in touch.

By MannyT

November 3, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this

It’s good to see the energy here, but it was 1000x better in the arena last night once folks actually got behind the Hawks. It was a great place to be. It was fun to hear the Dallas fans get the crowd to root louder for the Hawks. There was a home court advantage!

Dallas was the right type of good team for us to play…a dough boy—soft in the middle on offense.

The Hawks did a good job. I still say a healthy Speedy has a role on this team. He’s the guy that slows down Devin Harris and the other high speed PGs. Harris had a Fast Pass to the goal until he got hurt. The less often the Hawks get broken down at the point, the better the defense.

Ray it was debut successful song-same album, right artist. I remember both Spandau (sp?) Ballet and PM Dawn.

Let’s Go Hawks!

By Ramon

November 3, 2007 9:23 AM | Link to this

Doc, when I said they lost a lot of close games, I was referring to the six out of seven overtime games that they lost. If you remember, the only over time game they won was the fourth game of the year versus the Lebrons.

So what I was saying is, this year (as we saw last night) there is more offensive talent on the roster to close out games. You can’t just look at stats and say that they lost by how many points. Last season, there were many games that they lost by 9-10, but were only down by 2-4 points with a few minutes left in the game.

By the way, over 8 of those lopsided losses, you were referring to, came AFTER JJ was injured (remember there was a brief 4 game winning streak, then the Hawks were dead).

But I agree with you, the Hawks need to find a way to stop the penetration. That is why ‘Agent Zero’ was right when he stated the Hawks would be a dangerous zone team. As you know a good zone stops post entrance passes and a lot of penetration (unless it’s back door screens).

But I do feel if the Hawks use this game as a stepping stone, and not as the standard, then they can accomplish a lot. The words of Avery Johnson after the game, told it all.

-Now I just hope UGA don’t go lose-

By A Thinking Fan

November 3, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

Doc well said! Hawks will play some real “Men” Sunday! Then we’ll see the problem with our whole in the middle. I’d love to see Horford play his natural position - PF.

By doc

November 3, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

floze, is it intellectual to say that if you are hit from behind in an accident then it is your fault for being there? i think that that would be what jj would say and is saying. this crap from the organization came down between the sargent group underming his attempt to make a deal on the open market and belkin for trying to play hard ball and he got caught in the middle or was helpless to what was going to go down. it is similar to an accident where you are minding you own business and doing all the right things then get slammed from behind and suffer whiplash.

i know you can look at an issue from all angles however, he had no clue as to the level of disagreement there was and had been between the broken atlanta spirit ownership or did you have insider information that you couldnt share with us a we blogged about it to have helped him to make the better decision? geez, your (ir)rational, (un)intellectual thinking went a bit overboard there dude, maybe it was your dear love for your atlanta hawks that moved you from sanity. they would be even sorrier for the last two years and would have lost another one last night if he hadnt been there. stat from last year, jj got 29 a game in hawks wins when he played and only 20 a night when he lost. floze, he is your beloved atlanta hawks until someone steps up, so get real.

btw, i have long thought, been on record and still think it was a good deal for jj and bk made a good deal on that one. unless i missed something, we still havent paid up his draft pick of value and he is a HUGE bargain and dare i say it he is very good trade bait at his salary if it comes to that. who would you trade for without undermining you team for the future, jj of kobe? (not so) smartguy i guess these comments go for you to if you are still in that camp after last night. however, it does keep the blog going.

ramon, most teams look back and see where they lost games in overtime or at the buzzer and say they should have won and work in the off season to get the parts so it doesnt happen again. i am looking forward to see how they adjust to what comes next over a full season. obviously they have talent and i have also long said it, just not maybe in the best order or balance. i know they are handicapped at the very top, we will see how this goes as well.

finally, it didnt seem that jj’s comments had any effect on his teammates last night or his own performance. he delivers and is a warrior, now it is time for our broken atlanta spirit to deliver as well. yeah, that’s the ticket the broken atlanta spirit will deliver. heh heh

By Ken Strickland

November 3, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

RAY, I still don’t understand the assumption that Horford cannot play the 5 over the course of the season. AStaudamire came right out of HS and has played the position on an allstar level. He’s still performing at a high level even after major knee surgery. This summer a lot of you were all hyped up at the prospect of acquiring Amare in a trade. Since both Horford and Staudamire are listed at 6’ 10” and 245lbs, why is one more than capable and you consider the other one not capable? You don’t mind having Amare at 6’10” 245lbs playing the position full time, but you can’t envision 6’10” 245lb Horford doing the same. Where’s the logic?

Some of you seem to be suffering from this new desease called 7ft syndrome. It’s effects render you unable to envision anyone playing the 5position unless he’s 7ft tall. The truth is, Diop is a 7’ C and he got his but kicked(along with his 7’ PF) on the boards by our 6’9” and 6’10” 5’s respectively. There are far more attributes and factors that go into playing the position than just height and wt. Lets give Horford until the allstar break, to see what he can do, before you arbitrarily limit his abilities.

By Horford for ROY!

November 3, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

talk about it here!

By doc

November 3, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this

okay, the worst thing last night ….. durn lorenzen’s earrings. sad to say but those chandeliers gotta go man. if he were to continue to show up with those on i would sacrifice a seat on the bench in uniform just to get the glare out of my eyes if i were his coach. it might be the only way he gets in uniform if zaza comes back healthy, sheldon does the work underneath and horford continues to bow up.

By Ramon

November 3, 2007 10:59 AM | Link to this

Ken, for the record, when Amare came in he played the PF position and even then he hit a HUGE wall. Maybe Marbury had something to do with it. I don’t know. Yet, I do know he hit a huge wall. So thats not the example you would like to use, I don’t think.

By Ramon

November 3, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

Also remember the next season, Amare only played 55 games.

By doc

November 3, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

so right you are ramon only amare didnt want to play the spot either and begrudgingly did it when nash came on board to lead the way from a desultory 28 win season to about 55 if i am close to remembering right. just dont think we found that genie but after a 15 and 5 start i might change my tune. at least horford is the type of character to go about it as hard as he ca without a whimper.

By Lil E

November 3, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Ken has a point though. Al Horford has the upper body strength and build to play center. He is NOT 6’9” unless everyone else around him is an inch shorter than their listed heights. He is obviously an inch taller than the 6’9” Josh Smith, Shelden, and Marvin. In a few years, he’ll be about 15 lbs. bigger than he is now, and with those extra pounds will come that man strength needed to play the 5 position.

By Steve T

November 3, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

Ken, you spoke well about Horford. I have one question. Who is one of the best center that was shorter than 7-0? Bill Russell was 6-9. He has to be one of the best of all times. If I recall Wes Unseld was a 6-7 center. How tall was Willis Ried?

The point is folks, there are a lot of 6-10 centers in the NBA, and there have been a lot of great 6-10 and under centers in the NBA.

By Mike

November 3, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this

Doc Of course I agree, just having fun Brooooooooooo. I agree it was rabbit punch. Look I’m still drinking Kool-Aide so you know we’re still down bro.

The only reason that little guard was effective was because they were working so hard to keep the big guns under control. No way that little guy beats us. When they had to shut him down they did, besides that’s when a player like Salim can be used, on those smaller quicker guards.

I am convinced until we get help at the pivot spot, AH can man the post. He got a couple phantom foul calls and remember these guys are still adjusting to the speed of the NBA, AH and Acie will continue to improve on defense as the season goes. But both of guys are the total package. I would love to see Acie and Salim play together on the second unit, should be nothing but fire works!!

I just thought it was a tremendous effort by the team to pull out a win before the home crowd against one of the teams that is projected to be in the NBA finals.

Like we all said the biggest challenge for the Hawks will be Woody and substitution pattern. We were struggling to score in the third quarter that would have been a great opportunity to rest a couple of guys and go deeper in your bench.

I know it only one game so I want get carried away. The challenge will be much more difficult against Detroit, but I think in spite of Woody we make the playoff this year.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By hawks-4-life

November 3, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

IN SPITE OF WOODY WE MAKE PLAYOFFS? LOOK IM NOT PARTICULARLY PLEASED WITH WOODY IN THE PAST BUT IF WE MAKE PLAYOFFS IN WONT BE IN SPITE OF HIM….IF WE MAKE IT GIVE CREDIT WHERE IT IS DUE.

By cp

November 3, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

First off great win. Horford is a beast. He easily grabs around 15 boards if not for the foul trouble… Marvin had a good game. I dont even have to say anything about JJ. Lue is a great backup… Sheldon was tough on the boards although he still has trouble finishing around the rim…Ive seen enough out of AJ already. Start Law the next game.. We still allow too much penetration by oposing pgs thus exposing our big men… I love Josh Smith but he really has to cut down on those jumpers and turnovers. He can be great with all the tools he has but he has to get a better understanding of the game… He makes plays that make you go wow and then make’s plays that make you go sit him down… Hopefully he will cut down on all those jumpers. I can tell he worked hard on his post game. The shots were not really falling but I rather him work hard in the low post like that than to shoot all those jumpers.. I think this team is going to surpise a lot of folk’s this year….

By Stinger

November 3, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

I find all the negative comments regarding the Hawks not signing the two Joshes completely uninformed. There is next to no money available throughout the league next year for Free Agents and yet all the players will be available (most as restricted FA’s) - Arenas, Okafor, Deng, Iguodala, Artest, Jamison, Gordon, Maggette, Monta Ellis, Baron Davis, Biedrins, and etc. etc. etc. Josh Smith/Childress couldn’t go to the market at a worse time unless they sign a 1 year deal to be an unrestricted free agent in ‘09 when the market will be even more crowded.

Management needs to focus on keeping them happy regardless of money because they aren’t going to get what they want - league wide teams have spent right up to the cap and mortaged their cap flexability into the future to win now - the piper must be paid and you will see lower salaries signed by quality players to return the system to balance. JMHO

By Ken Strickland

November 3, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

RAMON, you have actually helped me make my point. AStaudamire came right out of HS and hit a wall playing PF. When moved to the 5 position he’s been hitting everything, including the allstar list, every since. One of the 2 best rebounders in the NBA over the last few yrs 6’7” PF. Really, how many natural 5’s are there in the NBA that are 7’ and dominant? Just think of how foolish you would be foolish to claim Akeem the Dream would be unable to be a dominate 5 just because he’s only 6’9” and weighs only 245lbs. The man used attributes other than height and bulk to be effective. Horford has those same attributes(quickness(especially when jumping), instinct, mobility, athleticism, aggressiveness, range and determination). He only lacks the quickness of feet(from an OFF standpoint)to match the Dream. Most of your more prolific rebounders rely on quickness, timing and anticipation more than height and bulk. After all, when has Shaq led the NBA in rebounding. In fact, how many 7 footers period have led the NBA in rebounding?

ANDO, you’ve made it obvious you’d prefer to see Horford playing PF and JSmith the SF, with Zaza at the 5. That would be a formidable frontline, but with shortcomings. Neither of the 3 can challenge any DEF with their outside shooting and range. Teams would simply zone up, cover the lane, double JJ, and dare us to beat them from the outside. That’s where MWilliams’ importance comes into play. When you want or prefer something, you have a tendency to slant things to support your assumtions. First, you claimed JSmith couldn’t play PF because he’s an undersized PF and a natural SF(although he’s performed much better at PF than he ever did at SF. Maybe maturity and experience are contributory factors). Now you claim Horford is undersized and can’t play the 5, despite evidence to the contrary(see last nights performance). Horford garnered as many RB’s in the 1st quarter than either of Dallas’ two 7footers got the entire gm.

You’ve mentioned on numerous occasions how the Hawks are an unbalanced team. With your preferred frontline, we’d have only one, maybe 2, (depending on who’s playing the point) players that could effectively shoot over the DEF. This yrs Hawk team is balanced, talented, deep, athletic, aggressive and hungry. It will be interesting to see which current players on the roster will be dropped when Zaza and Speedy return. If Speedy and Zaza start, that will leave AHorford, JChildress, SWilliams, TLue and ALaw as locks on the 2nd team. The remaining 2 spots will come from a list of Ajohnson, SJones, MWest, LWright and SStaudamire.

By Steve T

November 3, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this

I say we make a run at Okafor. Can you just see him, Horford. Smith/Williams on the court.

By Ramon

November 3, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this

Ken, I’m not saying I’m against him playing C. Actually, ON THIS ROSTER, he’s the best option at C that they have. However, I do wish a deal could be made where he could play for at the 4. Because in a play off series, when the game slows down, that will be a huge difference in the east.

On this roster, I would love to see Horford at the 5 long as he is healthy and has the stamina. I believe Woody should put the best out on the floor and make the other team adjust. I was just saying Amare was a PF. And in the offense that he is in, it works. However, when you go against SA, Detroit, and a few others, you may have a problem. But everyone has problems with that team.

I do believe Lue and Horford should be starting Sunday against Detroit.

By Chris

November 3, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

What the hell is a “sure-fire potential playoff contender?” “Sure-fire” does not relate to “potential,” and even less so to “contender.”

By mykhalc

November 3, 2007 1:26 PM | Link to this

KEN, your post to ANDO is exactly the point i’ve made for quite sometime to ANDO and BIG RAY. (i think you were fightin’ fires on the infamous FALCONS blog for quite awhile) i know it’s only one game but what i’ve felt, said, and posted ALL ALONG was that the lineup of ACIE, JJ, MW, JS, and HORFORD would be our best lineup to start games and would be the best unit on the floor from a lotta stand-points. the best PG would be on the floor. it would be the best reboundin’ unit. there would be outside shootin’ and inside play there. and it would be the best defensive unit. and yes maybe it does leave somethin’ to be desired from a defensive standpoint. but other than insertin’ MARIO WEST in there, it’s as good as it gets!!!

yeah, there will be times the unit gets stomped all over the place but it’s the best we got and that ain’t a bad thing!!!

despite AJ havin’ probably just a bad game more than anythin’, we could still see what he brings to the table. ACIE needs to be runnin’ this team from the get-go!!! they need to be developin’ the chemistry right from the tip-off. and did i say he just flat out runs the team better, can breakdown defenses better, and can hit the shot if needed.

so WOODSON i’m callin’ you out again. do the right and SMART thing, give ACIE the damn ball…PERIOD!!!!

By Steve T

November 3, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

It would have been nice to add Morris for UK to this team. We had a chance to get him but I do not know why we did not get him. He had a good night last night. I wonder how long of a contract he siged with the Kninks. The hawks would look better to him now. The hawks need to get rid of Belkins. How much better would this team would be if they did not have to deal with Belkins foolishness!

BOOT BELKINS! BOOT BELKINS! BOOT BELKINS! BOOT BELKINS! BOOT BELKINS!

By mykhalc

November 3, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

i think i said this earlier but after watchin’ WOODSON press conf i wanted come back and give him his props!!! he coached a good game. his rotations were really on-point last nite. and i don’t know when i ever said that about him!!???!! again it’s just one game, but even after MW got taken by DIRK late in the game, the HAWKS followed with a timeout, and as the team walked to the bench you could see WOODSON talkin’ to MARVIN, then smile and tap him on the head with his clipboard.

NBA LP gave the MAV telecast so there was not a lot of input from a HAWKS perspective but from the little i did see, it does seem like WOODSON is growin’ too as a coach (if we look at pre-season and game one).

JOE, MannyT, VOLMAN, since you cats were at the game, i’m curious to your take on WOODSON last nite…from coachin’ to his interaction with the players. anythin’ stand out that was different than in the past????

oh yeah, WOODSON give the damn ball to ACIE!!!!!LOL

By Astro Joe

November 3, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Steve T, I think you’re confusing Randolph Morris (Kentucky) with Zach Randolph (Mich. State). Zach is the perennial 20/10 big man acquired from Portland during the summer. Randolph Morris is the project big who will likely get Solomon Jones-type of time this season.

Mark Cuban was the butt of many in-arena jokes last night. He seemed to handle it quite well considering he is probably worth 5X the combined wealth of our 37 owners.

By MannyT

November 3, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

Steve T How do you call last night a good game for Randolph Morris? Aside from the paycheck and the view, I had exactly the same amount of playing time last night.

Why are y’all so worked up about the starting line up? If the rookies would not start if all were healthy, I am fine with that. It is more important that their minutes be managed to get the most out of them in their first 82-90+ game season(including preseason and hopefully playoffs)

Yes, they should get important minutes where they can contribute, but starting is not the be all for a good team. Look at Jason Terry or Manu Genobli. Niether starts, but both are major contributors that are usually on the floor at the end of a close game.

By HB Ando

November 3, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Ken, you’re all over the place, man. I never said Horford couldn’t play the five. I said it would wear him down and out during a rookie campaign, and that the where we could really put pressure on teams, from a match up standpoint, would be with Josh playing a lot of 3 and Horford at his natural position of PF. As far as Stoudamire goes, he hates having to play the five. And he’d hate it worse if he had to play in the east and see Shaq and Howard 12 times a year. Kurt Thomas played center for them last year. And they brought in Skinner to man the 5 for as many minutes as he can contribute, this year. And, most importantly, Stoudamire can jump about a foot higher than Al Horford, and is far more explosive. If you want to call Horford a poor-man’s Stoudamire, feel free, as it’s appropriate. But the fact that they are of similar stature is wholly irrelevant to what each brings to the floor. Horford won’t do, statistically, at 22, what Stoudamire was doing at 19. ‘Nuff said.

And I never said I preferred a line up of Smith, Horford and Zaza. I just said I like the long-term of Smith primarily playing 3 and Horford primarily playing 4. The NBA is, and will continue to be, a game of match ups, which largely dictate where you can best utilize a player with some versatility. You are correct that employing Smith at the 3 limits our outside shooting, which is why it would be imperative to have sought out a PG would is a real 3-point threat (which is what made Speedy such a puzzling choice, especially given his injury history). However, you’re not looking at how Smith, on one wing, from a spacing standpoint, where the defense has to somewhat collapse, to prepare for aggressive drives, leaves many more opportunities to pass over to JJ, on the weak side, for more frequent 3’s. You’ve essentially over simplified the argument. And, my only issue with Marvin is that I simply don’t believe that he and Josh will co-exist, on the floor, for the next ten years. It is my basic belief that one of them will go (whether the impetus is to balance the roster, or simply based on finances), and one will stay. And my hope is that the one that goes will be leveraged for a big man who can exceed the capabilities of Zaza.

Steve T, the ridiculousness of comparing big men of today, with big men from the late 50’s through the early 70’s, almost too silly to comment on. The only other athletic big in the NBA, when Russell played, was Chamberlin. And the numbers he put up on the NBA will never be matched. Russell won because he simply had way more talent around him than Wilt. How do you think Unseld would have done against Yao Ming? It’s such a stupid reference point that it boggles the mind.

And on the issue of Randolph Morris, the minute Billy drafted (not even one minute later) Cenk Aykol, I started screaming at the TV about why in the world didn’t he either take Morris, who had entered that draft, or Dwayne Jones (who was that years’ Solomon Jones, and who still hanging around on the end of somebodies’ bench, kind of like Solomon projects to do here for the next few years). It was no different the screaming I did at the TV the minute Billy drafted Chills, instead of either Igoudala or Deng. If he’d taken either of those guys, he’d of had no reason to draft Marvin Williams, and pass on Paul (who I screamed about BEFORE he made the Marvin pick, when it was clear that was what he intended to do). I sent an e-mail, during what had been semi-regular exchanges with Bruce Levenson, before the Shelden draft, after he’d asked me for my opinion (pre-draft, rather than some of these hind sight discussion I had brought up), and I told him the one thing, THE ONE THING, they could not do, was draft Shelden Williams with the 5th overall pick. Once they did, I never bothered sending another e-mail to Mr. Levenson (who was always a complete gentleman in trading e-mails and who have nothing bad to say about), because, from my point of view, there was nothing left to say.

Belkin is the least of this teams’ problems. They have a joke for a general manager, and the owners they have, while they may be nice men, and genuinely desire to see a winner here, don’t have any basketball sense to speak of. They continue to let a clown run their organization.

JJ was right to speak his mind. But the truth of the matter is, over the last couple of years, you’d have been hard pressed to find a free agent who’s agent would have steered a player to the Hawks. Johnson is viewed, through out the league, as a cautionary tale for taking the money for a chance to be the #1 option on a horribly run franchise. No one can objectify how much of the lack of help, he expected to come behind him, is a direct result of no one wanting to come here, versus the Hawks unwillingness to seek out that help. I don’t know, and no one else here does either. But it has to be a consideration when you look at the state of the franchise.

By Stinger

November 3, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

Careful Ken & Mykhalc starting rookies, especially at pg. We all know the NBA has a history of star favoritism when it comes to officiating.

2 Rookies starting and the other team is in the bonus at the 8 minute mark of the first period.

By mykhalc

November 3, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

MannyT, your post seem like it’s directed at me since i’m talkin’ about the startin’ 5 so much. well to put it simply, this team NEEDS it’s best unit on the floor right outta the gate IMHO. yes, you’re right about managin’ minutes and so forth but if ACIE is enterin’ the game after comin’ in for AJ then ANY of the other players leave immediately after that ‘cause of fouls then there is your chance for that unit to develop some chemistry. so THERE IS a reason you start your best unit!!!! it ALLOWS for THAT UNIT to develop some chemistry along with ALL the obvious benefits!!!

also the FLOW of the game usually determines whose on the floor at the end of a game. the beginnin’ of the game is as unique as the end EXCEPT the flow of the game (fouls, game injuries, etc) have not had a chance to influence it. it is THE CLEAR CHANCE where a coach has the opportunity to go with his best startin’ at ground zero!!!

By reese

November 3, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

First of all, great win hawks. The first qtr was impressive and it was nice to see the positive results produced by the early adrenelyn/energy displayed by the team.

The 2nd and 3rd qtrs showed that there is depth on this team, however, it was Joe Johnson hitting big shots to keep the hawks in the game.

The 4th qtr is where the game truly began. The core lineup of the hawks became jj, tlue, marvin, js and shelden. This team did enough to win the game.

The Good: JJ making shots to keep the hawks in the game. JJ getting 7 defensive rebs. Josh Smith’s double double, 3 stls, 2blks, 4asts, 8-8 freethrows. His 3 stls and 2 blks, just about negate his 6 turnovers. The key is that he is trying to make things happen and keep up the intensity. Tlue hit the outside shot while dallas packed the lane. Horford and Acie played with the same intensity as Josh Smith during their play. The hawks shot 80pct at the free throw line and out rebounded dallas 52 to 38. 9 rebounds by shelden williams.

The bad: JJ had to play 46 mins. Its the first game, so I’ll give Woodson some slack. However, he has got to find/develop another player to give minutes so that JJ can rest. Childress did not have any blocks, steals or assist to negate his poor play.

In order for this improperly balanced, lack of all stars and undersized team to do consistently do well, they (childress, shelden, marvin,solomon,ac,horford) have to be afforded the opportunity to make mistakes. However, with that comes the responsibility to get double doubles, assist, stls and blocked shots. You, know, the same stats that Josh Smith is producing. With that will come more wins like we saw against Dallas. Again, great win.

By mykhalc

November 3, 2007 3:21 PM | Link to this

ANDO, come on bro. you and BIG RAY clearly led the charge on preferrin’ the lineup of JS, AH, and ZAZA over MW, JS, and AH a few blogs back. in fact, BIG RAY and i called a truce on it ‘cause the rally was NEVER gonna end!!!LOL

you are right about it bein’ a game of matchups. my argument was and is WHO gives us the best chance outta the gate, nite in nite out!! and again that’s where the frontcourt of MW, JS, and AH show themselves best. i’m sure we ALL realize that matchups need to managed as the game goes along. but matchups DO NOT determine who starts on a nitely basis in the NBA (and i know you know that. i’m just sayin’…) on this level a team usually figures out where the core strength is and it goes from there. and that’s all i’m sayin’ about my desired lineup!!

By mykhalc

November 3, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

REESE, no doubt CHILS had a rough one last nite. but he PRODUCED in a category NOBODY ELSE did. he had 6 OFFENSIVE rebounds!!! rough game overall BUT still made a BIG difference!!!

By MannyT

November 3, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this

mykhalc I was w/family last night so I did not give Woody a fair look to evaluate. I will do so on Wednesday and report back. I will say he still needs to figure out the JSmoove thing (for exactly the reasons HB Ando and Astro Joe mentioned just after 11PM on Nov 2.) Smith will drive a coach to overdo a personal vice/demon in his career.

As for the starting vs finishing thing, I wasn’t directing at you in particular. There has been a lot of chatter about who starts on the blog all summer. In the case of the Hawks, their advantage seems to be in their 2nd unit being better than the other teams backups. Also, situations often dictate who gets a lot of minutes in a given game. For example, if we need quick offense off the bench, dial up Salim. If we need high energy defense, Mario gets the call. While neither is likely to start, both are more valuable for certain situations which may lead to more playing time or finishing the game (i.e. Mario’s cameo at the end.) As time goes on, I could see bringing Mario in to get after a Jason Terry (like Bruce Bowen used to do before he became a starter.)

I agree that chemistry matters in a starting unit. However, that does not mean that the 5 most talented start. Many teams use a glue guy in one of those spots that provides that cohesiveness that may not show on a stat sheet. I could see Childress starting for several teams in that role. Haslem had that role for Miami in the past, but it’s changing this year as Shaq declines. I could say the same for folks like Prince in Detroit and Bell in Phoenix.

By Ken Strickland

November 3, 2007 3:46 PM | Link to this

Fellows, I’d be lying if I told you I wasn’t loving these intense discussions. ANDO, I really wanted to get your juices flowing, but your last post overflowed the toilet(smile). Staudamire’s negative attitude towards playing the 5 hasn’t stopped him from reaching Allpro heights. Imagine what he could accomplish if he embraced the idea.

Too many of you are using reverse reasoning. You are focused on the possible mismatch other 5’s would possibly create for Horford. What about the possible mismatch Horford would create for them. With the overall talent and versatility we have, Horford would only have to neutralize the opposition. Last night, our so called undersized PF(JSmith) and 2 undersized 5’s(Horford & SWilliams) allowed us to outrebound Dallas’ tandum of 7’s. Horford can rebound with, and outrun, most BIG’s in the league. That means when we get the RB, and push the ball, for a few seconds we have the advantage of playing 5 on 4.

Everyone noticed the 2 dunks JChills missed last night. But did you notice how high above the rim he was on both attempts. He obviously no longer has those foot problems. Man, he is much more athletic than I imagined. You know I must be hyped up if I’m actually willing to instigate an argument with ANDO. How many hrs until the next gm? All of the discussions, emotions, negative feelings and embarrassment we Hawk fans have suffered the last few yrs, has made what happened last night even sweeter. If this team continues to mature, progress and establish a winning tradition, let’s promise ourselves we won’t become complacent and take their accomplishments for granted, like Braves fans have done. GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Ken Strickland

November 3, 2007 3:52 PM | Link to this

MYKHALC, in case you haven’t noticed, I seldom post on the Falcons blogs anymore. It has become too negative and too filled with none football related issues.

By Steve T

November 3, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

I think Bill could be very good in the NBA today. If you want to talk about players today vs players of the past, the past would blow these guys out.

The old school guys could really play. Back in the day, the big men shoot 50% or better. They knew their roles and play them well. Back in the day, every team had a good big center: Wilt Bill Russell Kareem Alton Lister Dave Cowens Wes Unseld Willis Reid Bill Walton Bill Lamibeer Robert Parrish Kevin Mchale Rick Machorn Pat Ewings Charles Oakly Anthony Mason The list goes on and on. Who many teams today can say thet they have at least two all stars at center and power forward. That was back when they played basketball.

By I.MUS WRITE

November 3, 2007 4:58 PM | Link to this

I wanna congratulate the boyz on a great game last night. Got some concerns though,J smoove leading the break makes me nervous like a hooker in sunday school-give the ball to a guard your handles are suspect!!! also take your time and relax,too many forced shots and bad decisions. The season just started so letz hope this is correctable. the rookies were dam good -why doesnt acie take his jump shots when open, he looked hesitant at times. Chillz where are you? Other than the turnovers we played a good game. We should start acie and bring in lue off the bench for scoring. AJ sucked bad bury him at the end of the bench with Lo Wright…… Speaking of Lo Wright exactly 15 minutes after the game was finished I see this fool standing in front of lucky lounge in a tuxedo. Who cares about your dam birthday. You should have been with the team celebrating an impressive win. What a f__king loser this guy is, one of the worst big men in the league nuff said.

By Clyde

November 3, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

Good win but I don’t like seeing JJ play 46 minutes. Didn’t Woody learn his lesson from last year?

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Mike

November 3, 2007 6:38 PM | Link to this

MannyT thanks for helping making the point about Woody I was trying to make. First let me give Woody credit for a well coached game. Depending on who we play there will be a need to play Salim, Solo, and West. I hope when that time come he is flexible enough to make the call without a lot of trepidation. This team is deep and loaded with talent, I just want us to use all of our assets over the course of the season.

No way you take AH out of pivot until you bring in a legit 6’11’’ or 7 foot Big. AH is one of most talented young post player to come out the draft in a while. Both Shelden and AH have very high basketball IQ, the different is AH has the explosion, agility, and tenacity to be a superstar at the position. You can tell when he steps on the floor he’s not intimidated by his opponents. That’s the difference in this team, there is two rooks raising bar for the hold team including JJ.

Acie is fearless and a straight out baller, yes we don’t have to wine about CPaul and Dwilliams any more. Acie and AH are just big time play makers. I think AH should start but we can bring Acie alone a little slower. There is a big void of talent at the pivot. Zaza will never be able to man the post the way AH does. He just doesn’t have the physical and mental tool that AH has.

I said it was too early to make a trade, I was wrong. We need to go ahead and put a package together to free up playing time for the young rooks, because both these guys are ready to hit the ground running. Look for a big season out of MARVIN. I wouldn’t get overly concern with Chill game, his effort was still there. He makes some many intangible contribution to team they are easily over looked. He was still looking down on defense and crashing the boards. It’s scary because it looks like Smoove, Marvin, and Chill all will have huge seasons. Can anybody say CHA CHING.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By mykhalc

November 3, 2007 6:55 PM | Link to this

MannyT, will be lookin’ forward to your take on WOODSON from the PHO game. should tell a lot since we know PHO will bring it fast and all nite long!!

and i agree with you about it NOT necessarily bein’ about puttin’ the best ‘individual’ 5 on the floor to start the game. i posted about startin’ the best UNIT!!! i just happen to think the best ‘unit’ is probably the best ‘individual’ 5 too…ACIE, JJ, MW, JS, HORFORD!!

By reese

November 3, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, the point that I am trying to emphasize is that Childress needs to do more in all categories similiar to Josh Smith. If he gets an offensive rebound, then get a basket or get an assist. If he sees that shelden is not rotating over to try to block the point guard’s shots who were freely running of the pick and roll, then he can rotate over and try to block/alter the shot. If he makes a bad pass, then hustle back on defense and get a steal or charge.

So many people are ready to criticize Josh Smith for 6 turnovers and for dribbling the ball on the fast break. Well, if Josh didn’t push the pace then, Al Horford wouldn’t have had his 2 dunks in the first half. A running team doesn’t have to always have the point guard push the pace. Horford has demonstrated that he will dribble down court or he will run hard to fill the lanes. I just don’t consistently see Josh Childress and Marvin Williams play with the same intensity of Josh Smith. The result is evident in the fact that they don’t produce results in every positive offensive and defensive category as Josh Smith. I give Joe Johnson a little slack because he is playing so many minutes that he has to pace himself or he will faint/get hurt on the court if he played with the intensity of Josh Smith and produced the same all around stats.

No, Josh Childress and Marvin Williams are not as Athletic as Josh Smith. However, they can still try to hustle like josh instead of just occupying space on the floor. Barea is not as fast as Devin Harris or Jason Terry, but he hustled and ran the pick and roll just as effective as those two.

Pushing the pace is a mindset. Your mouth can say you want to push the pace, but when your not running the lanes hard, passing the ball ahead to open players, taking long rebounds or steals hard to the basket or when your starting point guard (anthony johnson) is telling your center al horford to slow down then you might not have the right mindset for pushing the pace.

By Astro Joe

November 3, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, I had a much better view during timeouts of the cheerleaders than I did of Woody, so I can’t provide any insight on the interaction with players. But the cheerleaders are lacking that Oakland quality that Sir Mix-a-Lot discussed so well. But they work with what they got and I ain’t entirely mad at any of them.

reese, I don’t think anyone can question Childress’ effort or hustle. He is in constant motion when he plays. I think he is just programmed differently than Smith. Smith is high risk/high reward. Childress is more “fundamentally sound”. Smith is all about making plays. When he grabs the board, he often gambles that he can do something good, even with his limited ball handling skills. Childress would defer to a teammate with better play-making skills and fill the wing (which is one of his strengths). There are pros/cons with each approach. From what I saw last night, Horford splits the difference. He starts the break but he didn’t look to make the assist.

By HB Ando

November 3, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

Well said, Joe, and pretty much fast break 101. Wings need to give it up early, get over to one of the wide lanes, and be prepared to finish. Not only does Smoove run the obvious risk of losing his dribble, he also eliminates the likelihood of an easy, catch-and-dunk or oop. There are a lot of guys in the NBA who can run the middle of a 3 on 2. Very few who can finish, from the wing, like Josh Smith. So why take yourself out of position? You limit not only yourself, but your team, as well.

Dude, you said you wanted to AK. We said we wanted you to be The Matrix. I don’t remember anybody asking you to be Magic. You’re a finisher (and by the way, you’re not Ray Allen, either; so enough with the 3-point air balls).

Is it Wednesday yet?!

By doc

November 3, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this

no, i think in the back of smoove’s mind is he is the second coming of lebron. i too would prefer he defer a bit more and be j smash which he did a couple of times last night. however, the problem is he is three times quicker than two of the three active point guards we have on the team. when acie is in charge or speedy comes back to some semblance of credibilty or a real point guard with wheels falls into our laps i expect and want smoove to push the ball up the court because i really like to see horfod finish along with others like marvin and chills. maybe m. west will show some chops wit the ball and be allowed to show his stuff. cant he be as good as the puerto rican from last night if given the chance?

By cp

November 3, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

At this point I dont even need to see more out of Anthony Johnson. Start Law now. Johnson still looks out of shape. I noticed when they did a close up of him after he commited another foul that he was huffing and puffing as if he was about to pass out. Sit this guy near the end of the bench. Start Law and let Lue back him up… It would have been nice to bring Salim in when we were struggling to score and the Mavs went to that zone. When is the next game?

By Steve T

November 3, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

I know a lot of people have said that Smith was a 3. I think his ball handling and overall shot selection dispel that myth. He need to improve in that area before we can move him to the 3.

If he wants to become a 3, then I would suggest that he works on his outside shot.

By mykhalc

November 3, 2007 11:41 PM | Link to this

JOE, LOL on the ‘view’!!! and well said on the post to REESE.

REESE, just to add, without havin’ a tape of the game, i’m willing to bet that somethin’ good came out of 90% of CHILS’ offensive rebounds. he’s just that smart of a player to make the right play. and like JOE said, nobody should question CHILS effort, hustle, and committment to ‘team’ basket ball. you’ve got a better argument about MARVIN on that one!!!

personally, i DO NOT doubt SMOOVE’s energy or hustle. but he does make some VERY questionable plays at the worst times. like on the break when he wanted to run it. NOTHIN’ good came from that!! he turned the ball over!! chances are that’s points if he would have given it up early…probably his points too (like ANDO was alludin’ to in his post) SMOOVE got the ball at the top of the key, tried to put the ball behind his back with 2 defenders right there…TURNOVER.

the cat has some GREAT skills but he has to learn to play smarter!! it really is that simple!!! it’ll make the team that much more dangerous!!!!

By mykhalc

November 4, 2007 1:28 AM | Link to this

FLASH, my man, before i forget, you can check the game out free on NBA LP tomorrow. games are free until tuesday, i believe.

there were a couple of low posts by HORFORD, SMOOVE, and MARVIN. but what i realized is that WOODSON really spreads the floor as if MW and JS are playin’ a 3 position from opposite wings. so in general, just not a lotta postin’ up bein’ done (yet). HORFORD is the one that looks soooooooo comfortable down low tho. he luvs livin’ down there!!!!

you will be happy to know that HORFORD did post at the foul line a couple of times lookin’ for cutters along the baseline. and he might have even fed SMOOVE on one of his posts from the top (can’t totally recall, details kinda foggy now.)

i think AJ ‘could’ bring more options with his size. but if his play last nite is any indication of how he’ll run the team, then LUE looked a thousand times better. there is also a confidence and chemistry that you can see JJ has in LUE that does not carry over to AJ IMHO.

FREE NBA LP TOMORROW!!!!!!

By The Flash

November 4, 2007 1:36 AM | Link to this

some questions by a blind man Did Jmooth or anyone else show facility in getting the ball inside? Were there any catches inside that you just knew would produce scores? By bigs or MW or Smooth included. Important tell. This team needs esy inside shots and has the personnel to get them, if the passes are there, and guys get it while arriving not after.

Herbie Brown was really impressed with the Hawks; said they were two deep at each position. I think AJ is still important in the one. I do not think TL is consistent enough to be a steady second. I also think that AJ’s size is important. We also have to be mindful of TL and injuries.

I/d like to think that the offense with JS in the 3 has him moving, both to clear space and to create bursts to catch inside the 3 line, where with one dribble he can be extremely dangerous.

Movement by him will keep defenses from setting and helping, and create opportunities for athletic catches in great spots. Half of JS’s easy offense can be 90 percent off of athletic receptions.

It will also keep JS, and I do not mean this in a touchie feelie sense, In The Moment. What my old high school coach used to call the paralysis of analysis. You catch outside the lane with space; you think and try to draw, but in the end your mind says you gotta take what the offense gives. You keep JS in the moment and his quick mind will eat you up.

By mykhalc

November 4, 2007 1:50 AM | Link to this

FLASH, my man, before i forget, you can check the game out free on NBA LP tomorrow. games are free until tuesday, i believe.

there were a couple of low posts by HORFORD, SMOOVE, and MARVIN. but what i realized is that WOODSON really spreads the floor as if MW and JS are playin’ a 3 position from opposite wings. so in general, just not a lotta postin’ up bein’ done (yet). HORFORD is the one that looks soooooooo comfortable down low tho. he luvs livin’ down there!!!!

you will be happy to know that HORFORD did post at the foul line a couple of times lookin’ for cutters along the baseline. and he might have even fed SMOOVE on one of his posts from the top (can’t totally recall, details kinda foggy now.)

i think AJ ‘could’ bring more options with his size. but if his play last nite is any indication of how he’ll run the team, then LUE looked a thousand times better. there is also a confidence and chemistry that you can see JJ has in LUE that does not carry over to AJ IMHO.

FREE NBA LP TOMORROW!!!!!!

By breaking news

November 4, 2007 6:18 AM | Link to this

Hawks look much improved. Hopefully the corner has been turned.

And kudos to all the bloggers who correctly identified Sekou as the “boorish clown” in his not so thrilling cellphone escapades. Unbelievable that a grown man can’t use common sense while “yapping” on his phone.

I own a bar in a metro burg in the southeast. Does quite well. Smokers are welcome, cellphones aren’t. Sign on the door, all cellphones turned off when entering. I’ve found that most people want to forget about their own problems for a brief period, and not hear the patron next to him, whine about his.

I started this about 5 years ago. After initial resistance from a few, it’s actually helped my business immensley.

By ray

November 4, 2007 6:41 AM | Link to this

Wow. I cannot believe so many people are up and at ‘em about the dang cell phones. I’ll bet the same people who are so righteously indignant about people using cell phones while standing in public places are also the ones who you’ll find on the road in their personal or work vehicle with one hand glued to the side of their head and one hand on the steering wheel. “Oh gosh, how dare you make use of the freedom of speech in my presence on a device designed for such. But don’t you dare tell me what to do while I’m weaving and whizzing down the road, changing lanes into YOUR lane because I didn’t see you there(was talking on my cell phone in the privacy of my vehicle, which is far more important than anything else).”

Oh, and I’ll take cell phone conversations over second-hand smoke any day. At least you don’t carry the cell phone conversations with you like you do the smoke: in your clothes, in your hair, on your skin, in your LUNGS. Obviously not everybody’s priorities are the same.

By doc

November 4, 2007 7:02 AM | Link to this

question, if someone is so engrosssed in their conversation on a cell that they dont see that it is time for them to step up in line is it proper to interupt and ask them to move up in line? seems they are the one being impolite but since i think all cell phones for the most part suck and can give you cancer i am a bit biased on the subject.

agree on the second hand smoke, would prefer a quiet place without the ash trash for the lungs and surrounding electromagnetic waves as ai sit in front of my computeer absorbing mn mades best.

By Samuel

November 4, 2007 7:21 AM | Link to this

Great win the other night. I said before the season that some of these games against the powerhouses are definately winnable if we keep up the defensive pressure. Most teams don’t expect it this early in the season.

Tonight’s key will be how our PGs handle Billips. He’s very strong and we really don’t have anyone at the PG position to match him.

I would love to see us go to the big lineup tonight. JJ,Chil,Smoothe,Marvin, Al. Either JJ or Childress on Chauncy.

Hey Doc, Check out our Boy Yi’s numbers from last night. Guy’s gonna be a big time stud in this league. Where are all the Hataz AT? Where they AT?

Where’s the Super Bowl Party at Today? Who yall got. The Pats or Indy?

The fantasy League is off to a serious start. Most teams are neck and neck going into the final day.

By ray

November 4, 2007 7:21 AM | Link to this

Ken, I don’t know what to tell you. I think Big Al is better as a pf. Sure he can play center. But does that make him a center? To me he’s just not a center, but he can play one at times. I compare him in some ways to Okafor, who by the way doesn’t play center all the time either. They have Brezec for that (when he’s healthy).

Stoudamire is a PF. He can play center, but hates it something fierce. He’s still a PF. We were jazzed about him coming here because he’s an awesome player period. But if you’ve noticed, the Suns have been trying to pair him with someone bigger than Marion. The reason it works with him in the middle is his incredible athletic ability and the fact that the Suns play a purely running game. Very little time is spent in a half court set. VERY LITTLE. And if you notice, when they are forced to do so, particularly against a team like San Antonio, they struggle. Why? Because Amare can’t guard a real center with offensive talent like Duncan. The running game helps Stoudamire and plays to his strengths, the slow-down or stop of the running game exposes and inconveniences him.

He wouldn’t fare too well against Howard either, as Ando said. It would be foul trouble all night long, and other teams have already figured this out. Want recent evidence? Seattle’s big guys caused the Suns some problems, but the Suns managed to escape. Then they rant into the Lakers. Once again, the half court killed ‘em and youngester Andrew Bynum notched a big 14pts/13 rebounds…in just 22 minutes. Where was Stoudamire? In foul trouble. Again. Like Ando said…matchups and strategy. If you notice, Dallas tried to do the same to Horford because he was so destructive. It worked.

The point is, we are trying to run, but we’re nothing like the Suns. We have and will continue to be caught in the half court game more than we like. You put Horford out there with Smith being his only help on the boards/defense (face it Marvin is still not enough yet) and you’ll beat him up when facing teams that are playing a bigger center and pf, or two sizable, strong pf types. We outplayed Dallas. Dirk is tall but not a power anything. He’s just tall with incredible jump shot ability. Essentially, Diop was the only low post enforcer. That should have been obvious when we played JJ and Josh on Dirk on the defensive end. Any other seven-footer would’ve posted them up and went right over the top. Add to that my past comments about height that you must have missed while vacationing in Falcons blog land, and you’ll find that your argument is merit-less in that regard.

The simple fact is, I’d be happy with another guy similar in size, strength, determination, and skill as Horford. Two guys like that with JSmoove or Marvin at the 3 and you have one tough frontcourt to deal with. Detroit has been doing it that way for some time. When the Wallaces were together, it worked great, even against the likes of Shaq. But we don’t have that.

Speaking of which, watch the game against Detroit, and unless something strange (and wonderful) happens, you’ll probably see what I’m talking about. They’ll play Wallace and another pf type along with Prince. And it will be much tougher to deal with. Not saying it can’t be done, just saying we’re not going to be able to sustain this at optimal level all season. But whatever, each person believes as they choose. This is the opinion I choose, knowing I could be wrong.

By ray

November 4, 2007 7:25 AM | Link to this

Doc, I’d say that is the polite thing to do. I think the real problem is the general lack of regard for people. We become want to have our “rights” to do as we please when we please, regardless of how anybody else feels. And then we become annoyed with the slightest things. People are dying of hunger (amongst a thousand other tragedies) and we’re aruging about the use of a costly convenience-driven technological instrument? Don’t get me wrong, I like the use of my cell phone, but come on….

By doc

November 4, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

samuel, yi looked good in their win against chitown. also crit got in the game late and scored quick in going 3 of 3. like the two we got for the present so it might be more fun in the short term as i know woody would have had trouble letting crit play and wouldnt have known how to get yi into the flow of things. with yi’s game it will take a bit more time but he came up with 2 blks and 2 steals in his game in addition to some points on the board in a low scoring game the other night.

ray it is a question with tongue in cheek though it happened yesterday and got me to reflecting on what one of the uys from the table do. however, in a small snese and maybe more the cell thing is a real statement on how diconnected all feel and it somehow gives one a sense of coneection and safety at all times to have it in the pocket.

peace all.

By clint

November 4, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

I think Jsmoove looks bigger and is starting to fill out into his man body as my women friends call it. He looks more like a 4 than a 3. His lack of a jump shot should be enough to show everyone that he should be a power forward. I will cut him some slack on leading the break because he has never played with a pg that could push the ball.

Jchill gives the effort and I wouldnt change anything about him. points will come for him some games, but he will always help out in some other area.

We also had another good 6’10” center named Moses, so dont doubt AL playing the 5 all year long.

By Ken Strickland

November 4, 2007 9:46 AM | Link to this

RAY, now that we(you, ANDO and I) have stated our opinions about Horfords ability to play the 5, let’s let the season decide. I’ve enjoyed the discussions because there are points to be considered on both sides. Our discussions will cause me to focus on Horfords play in the middle. I noticed in the Dallas gm when Horford dominated the boards in the 1st half, we ran and built a big lead. When foul trouble cost him his aggressiveness, we stopped running and had trouble running and scoring.

Now, SWilliams got 9RB’s(1 less than Horford)but Shelden couldn’t fill the lane on the break after getting the RB like Horford. When your 5 can get the RB and run the break, it creates instant mismatches. Usually PG’s and/or SF’s are responsible for dropping back and covering the break. How many PG’s or SF’s can defend a quick, fast, strong, and very athletic 6’10” center coming down the lane?

With Zaza, SJones and SWilliams in reserve, we can afford to play Horford at the 5. As far as him getting fatigued, worn down or hitting the wall, this annually happens to rookies regardless of the position they play. It’s just a matter of adjustment, and that comes with experience. The gm tonight will be a true test of the Hawks and our coaching staffs maturity. There will be no DEF weaknesses on this team like there was with Dallas. However, there will be no dynamic OFF presence on this team like we faced with Dallas. Detroit and the Spurs are the 2 best NBA teams at controlling tempo and forcing teams to play their style. I can’t wait to see how Woody, and the players, react to that pressure. I am really excited. How many hrs until gm time?

By Steve T

November 4, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

I forgot about Moses when I was talking about big men from the past. He was one of the best 6-10 center of all time. The fact some of you must realize is Horford likes the low post. Isn’t Mourning 6-10?

The fact remains that the best centers right now are under 7-0. If you take away Shaq, who by the way is getting older, there are not that many 7-0 footer that can control the game. Can someone name me 5 centers(7-0 or taller) that can control a game.

By reese

November 4, 2007 10:35 AM | Link to this

mykhalc, I’m not downplaying the importance of getting 6 offensive rebounds. I just emphasizing that he can do more. NBA.com’s play by play allows us to know what he did after each rebound. He missed a shot. He got his shot blocked twice. We scored twice. Nothing happened because it was the end of the qtr.

Astro Joe, I think that we all agree that J chill had a bad game. I’m just stating that he and Marvin Williams need to do more positive plays on both the offensive and defensive end for this team to be consistent winners, for joe johnson to play less minutes and for additional stability when players like salim and solomon are on the floor.

Doc, I agree that Josh Smith is faster than our point guards lue and johnson. What HB Ando and mykhalc forget about fastbreak 101 is that when you practice 3 on 2 fast breaks, the facets taught are to get the ball in the middle and for the person (1,2,3,4,5) dribbling, stop at the free throw line to make the pass.

HB Ando, I don’t know about teams that you played on, but my teams were like the hawks and we were all about the same height. Therefore, we practiced the type of 3 on 2 fast breaks that seem to come up in the game where you can’t always control having the guard in the middle.

We also practiced 2 on 1 fast breaks with the whole team. we didn’t have the forwards and centers sit on the side because a guard will always be the one leading the break.

Astro Joe, yes, Childress is programmed differently than Josh Smith. Yet, the premise of Billy Knight’s team of similar players is that they can play many different roles. He has Childress and Joe Johnson playing the point, 2 guard and 3 spot. He has Marvin playing the 2, 3 and 4. He has Josh playing the 3 and 4. Its time to give a patch to upgrade the programming of childress, marvin and joe. They should be just as capable of taking a long rebound, dribble and force 3 on 2 or 2 on 1 match ups with any other player. They don’t have to wait for the slow footed lue or aj.

Again guys, fast paced is a mindset and you practice to prepare your players to get into that mindset. There may be turnovers, but in the long run your success should out weigh your failures. If not, change style of play or change players.

Joe, Marvin and Childress need to get more defensive rebounds under the basket. They need to be able to look down court to Horford or Josh Smith who are capable of beating their men down court.

Flash, a lot of the times when the hawks were taking shots down low, they were getting their shots blocked. They had better results driving from the outside and making layups. However, Dallas packed the paint a lot.

By GMoney

November 4, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

The reality is that there have been others besides Mykh and Ken who believe Horford is right for the center position. When you look at all the centers out there, Horford will match up well against 80% at least. He will either be quicker, more mobile, more athletic, or even stronger. The roster is balanced. The old arguments are no longer valid. Some need to give it a rest. Those of us who don’t post everyday but who read pretty religiously are fatigued by outmoded ways of looking at NBA team composition. As was stated last year, this summer, and again now, this team is built on a new millenium, more international way of looking at bball. Why do you think that Ivaroni is coaching the Grizzlies? Why do you think people thinkd D’Antoni is a genius? Why did everyone look to the Raptors to find them pull a rabbit out of their hats with a different style of ball? We won’t even mention the Warriors. There are different routes that lead to the promised land (thank goodness). It’s what keeps basketball interesting. Each of us on this blog has his viewpoint and way of thinking. I like what I saw on the floor Friday night. Ken, you’re right. It’s going to be a real test today. However, while Pistons are very strong, they really don’t have any bangers. I think we’ll play them tough but lose do to experience. I hope I’m wrong.

By mykhalc

November 4, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this

REESE, good call on the NBA.COM play by play. will definitely look to use that feature myself.

REESE, my point is that CHILS USUALLY does do more. he had a bad game. on 3 of the offensive rebounds, as you pointed out, CHILS got 3 (additional) shot attempts. the fact that he missed them just goes to show what kinda nite he was havin’.

as far as JS runnin’ the break with the ball, to me, he just does not do a good job. he can stop all day long at the foul line but if he can’t make the RIGHT pass or assist, then what??? and again, on this particular play we have been talkin’ about, i was screamin’ at the tv for him to give it up ‘cause he had a guard right there before the break really even initiated.

again to me, JS just has to realize what his REAL strengths are and roll with those. his handles, especially in traffic, are a liability to him and the team. it really is that simple…IMHO

By mykhalc

November 4, 2007 11:36 AM | Link to this

GMoney, on point bro!!

it’s gonna be sports overload today…

FALCONS/49ers (if i can take it!!!)

PATS/COLTS

HAWKS/PISTONS!!!!

YEAH BABY!!!!

By How will the Hawks respond to game 1 victory?

November 4, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Talk Hawks at Clubhawks.com

By Ken Strickland

November 4, 2007 2:57 PM | Link to this

GMONEY, excellent post and observations. What happened to Dallas was no fluke. I believe Detroit will have its hands full tonight. CBillups is a legimate allstar PG, but he will have his hands full trying to contain our combo of ALaw/TLue. In fact, we will create some serious matchup problems for Detroit, especially with our depth, aggressivenes and versatility.

MYKHALC, I intended to grill some shrimp and ribs today, but I can’t devote the time it requires. Both of us will be in sports overload. Less than 5hrs to go people.

By Knickerbocker

November 4, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

Man, I ain’t gonna pretend to know much about Hawks basketball but Josh Smith is amazing. AS a Knicks fan, I compare the impact of his style of play to the play of Marcus Camby during the Knicks run to the Finals in 1999. Just all over the court, a little of everything. You look at the stat sheet at the end of the night and you might not see everything in the stat sheet you swore you saw with your eyes but when you watch him, you know you are watching a very unique, special talent. Maddening at times? F#@$ yeah, you’d better believe it.

Is everything perfect about Josh Smith? From what I can tell, hell no! Is his jumpshot suspect? Yes! Will he every be the complete package? Not sure. I think though that Josh can be the kind of guy like Scottie Pippen or Marcus Camby or Kenyon Martin who seem to do a little bit of everything and who seem to be all over the court in the middle of something.

I see people criticizing some of his turnovers the other day. Watching that game the other day, I witnesses a few instances of recklessness from him. BUT what I also saw was a man playing the game MUCH faster than every single other player on the court. What I saw was that a few of his teammates, because they could not keep up with him, were the actual ones who caused the turnovers. They did not have his vision or speed out on the break.

Horford forms an amazing tandem with Smith. Again, as a Knicks fan, I see the two of them as a Sprewell/Camby tandem of sorts if you reflect back to 1999. If you remember that idiot Van Gundry (most completely overrated coach in the league because he is a good quote for the media and looks like a cartoon character) back in 1999 still had Spree and Camby coming off the bench early in the 1999 playoffs. They were both all over the court, taking over games when they came in in a way you could never see it on a stat sheet. I think Horford and Josh Smith can form this kind of amazing tandem. Eventually, that clown Van Gundy had to put them in the starting lineup and acknowledge what the rest of us were seeing with our eyes.

Many of the bloggers are right. This is a young, exciting, athletic team. With Horford, Williams, Smith running this team is very dangerous. Throw in Acie Law and holy crap you could be looking at a Phoenix Suns type team in a year or two …..

I think that all comes down to how good and how much vision Law ends up having… he looked darn good last night.

And then when it is time to slow things down, let Joe Johnson take over that mofo. You wish though that they had one or two more jump shooters who could nail a needed bucket. Zaza when healthy brings a decent inside/outside combo with Joe Johnson to keep defenses honest.

The way I see it is that this team is one or two jump shooters and one rebounding/defensive force in the middle away from being a legit threat to go deep into the playoffs.

If Acie Law is as good as he looked the other night and in college, you really could be looking at a sleeper team to go to the Finals from the East in a year or two if the rebounding and jump shooter is added.

By mykhalc

November 4, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

KEN, i hear ya. i have to say the FALCONS are borin’!!! man…i’m ready for the HAWKS!!!

Knickerbocker, nice post. it’s funny that you mention KENYON MARTIN, ‘cause if SMOOVE could develop ‘more’ into that kinda player, especially attitude wise, with the addition of what he brings naturally, man now you are talkin’ about UNSTOPABLE(sp?)!!!!!

a lots of us can be hard on JS but there is NO DOUBT that he brings it!!!!

By mykhalc

November 4, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

HAWKS hangin’ ugly but hangin’!!! DET is a smooth, veteran team, no doubt.

let’s hope WOODSON ends the ROYAL IVEY PG rotation startin’ in NJ!!! it’s obvious…give ACIE the ball!!!

By GMoney

November 4, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

Mykh,

I’m with you. TLue can’t hang. He’s causing all kinds of issues on the defensive end and not giving them enough quickness offensively. Acie is a baller!!! Hey, you guys who don’t think we have toughness in the paint. First half, Hawks are hanging tough. You gotta love it.

By Ken Strickland

November 4, 2007 9:27 PM | Link to this

GMONEY, the Hawks are not hangin, they are leading and have been for most of the gm. It’s the Pistons that’s doing the hangin.

By Ken Strickland

November 4, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

Win lose or draw, the Hawks are a team that will have to be dealt with. Our big men, particularly JSmith, must let our PG’s handle the ball and make the plays. We lost this gm due to excessive turnovers, period.

By ajw

November 4, 2007 10:07 PM | Link to this

We got DONAGYEDED!

By mykhalc

November 4, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

good effort by the YOUNG GUNS!!! WOODSON should have gotten back with ACIE a lot sooner. DET beat MIA and ORL without RIP so i can’t fault the effort at all!! that half court offense stinks tho!!!

By ajw

November 4, 2007 10:10 PM | Link to this

Marvin blocked Billups’ shot! fair and square!!!!!!!!!!

By A-ville Ranger

November 4, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

A good effort tonight in some ways but same ole same ole in others.Josh Smith spent much of the summer working with Hakim on low post moves but in his first two games he’s shot awful and brainless.He lost the game tonight by going 4-17 and settling for long shots late in the game.Josh here’s news you can’t shot,when you try you’re a liability to the team.Law had 5 turnovers and 0 assist tonight.It’s still an open question if he can be a true pg or if he’s a real sg.On the good side Marvin has played 2 good games and looks very good so far.

By randy

November 4, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this

Tough Loss! Joe Johnson and Marvin played great. Acie played well when he was in there.

The 2 Josh’s were aweful (except for those 3 clutch freethrows at end). They were turnover machines tonight. Also, I have no idea why Woodson left little T Lue to guard Chauncey instead of Law when he offered better defense and offense. Definately a game that we need to win. But on the bright side they played 2 of the toughest teams in the NBA first 2 games and won one and very nearly won the other.

By kwooden1

November 4, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this

Good game by Hawks, JJ hitting 2 threes at the end made it close. Smooth had a tough game with the turnovers, but made three free throws at the end to tie. It was a game they definitely could have won, but they just had to many turnovers. I liked most of Woodson’s rotations except for not getting AJ anytime. Law is definitely the starter and Horford really makes the difference. Once Smooth figures out when to drive and when to shoot the jumper, the Hawks will have another scorer. Marvin is getting better and better. Keep fighting guys!!

GO HAWKS

By randy

November 4, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

Yea, Josh is gotta stop shooting 3’s and long jumpers. Brickcity! Drive it Josh!

Law needs to be the man. He looks ready to me and can offer some relief to Joe on the offensive end.

Marvin needs to keep playing like he did tonight. The guy looked great! He even had a great block at the end, even though the refs screwed up and called a foul on him.

Tough loss, but I like what I have seen so far. GO HAWKS!!

By mykhalc

November 4, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

A-ville Ranger, with the way the game was played and the way the half-court offense stunk, i think ACIE took what he could get from DET defense. so goin’ 5-6 from the field was a good sign. turnovers were high as you said but one was caused by him slippin’ on a wet spot (i think).

growin’ pains tho. they faced one of the best defenses in the league and took it down to the wire!!!

WOODSON, i’m callin’ you out again…give ACIE the ball!! end the experiment please!!! LUE and AJ will be good in a backup role!!!

gotta hit the gym to work this one off!!!LOL a FALCONS win and HAWKS loss leaves me, as WALT ‘CLYDE’ FRAZIER would say, discombobulated(sp?)!!!LOL

By ajw

November 4, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this

Although I like TLues stability in the 4th, this was not the team to do it against. He just got manhandled on defense. He had some unlucky in-and-outs, I know, but I think AJ would’ve been a much better sub against the Pistons tall guards. Acie did well until the 4th, but it won’t be long before we can’t compete without him on the floor. He didn’t fill up the stat sheet much tonight, but his teammates just seem so much better when he is on the floor.

By doc

November 4, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

5 to’s a piece for josh smith, acie and horford of the team total of 19. not good, the rest pretty awesome for these young guys.

By Romulus

November 4, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this

AJ wasn’t there tonight due to the birth of his child. That’s why TLue got the start. All in all, not bad so far.

By reese

November 4, 2007 10:54 PM | Link to this

Good and entertaining game hawks. Too bad the end result was a loss.

The Good: Josh Smith hitting 3 free throws to tie the game at 91. 5 blocked shots by Josh Smith. Double digit rebounds by JS and horford. Nice shooting from AC Law. JJ and Marvin scoring over 20. Another 80 pct. free throw night and more rebounds than the opponent.

The Bad: Hawks abandon fast paced game and try to play half court with Detroit. This allows Detroit to hang in the game and get the last possesion with the score tied. Teams are packing the paint against the hawks and hounding joe johnson. Tlue was not hitting his outside shot and is weak driving to the basket. Jason Maxiel owned the lane and intimidated the hawks players who tried to shoot in the lane. Childress really needs to hit the weights. He looks very weak, continues to miss dunks and is not beating old men like billups and hamilton down court. There were too many instances where Jchil, Marvin and JJ did not try to stop the pistons from fast breaking. This was occuring in the 4th period when Jsmith was resting and detroit was making their comeback. Woodson sticks to a 8 man rotation and still has not allowed solomon or salim to see any action. Shelden is getting rebounds because he doesn’t provide help defensive or jump high enough to block shots. Therefore, he is in position to get missed shots.

By kwooden1

November 4, 2007 11:16 PM | Link to this

Romulus, thanks for the note on AJ, he would have helped with covering Billups and Murray. This was a good game for the Hawks to see a great defensive team and team that controls the tempo. Most of the turnovers they made are something they can fix. They will see a different team defensely with the Nets. (not nearly as good) GO HAWKS

By mykhalc

November 4, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

REESE, i get it now…JS and ‘the bad’ are mutually exclusive!! since you already named the bad for the others, i’ll name SMOOVE’s…5 TO’s and continues to make bad decisions on shot selection and ball handlin’ moves into traffic!!! just keepin’ it real!!!!

By Steve T

November 4, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this

Marvin really played tonight. He was 8-12 from the field which is 75%. Do you guys see why he he was projected to be number 2 in that draft?

Yes, Woody need to get on Smith butt. In close game, you have to be aware of your shot selection. He was 4-17 from the field which is 23%, and some think he is a natural 3. He better learn some lost post move and shot close to 50%. If he shot 30%, the hawks walk away a winner.

By reese

November 4, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

Steve T, centers who are 7’0 or taller and who can control the game on either the offensive or the defensive end are Yao Ming, Eddie Curry, Shaq, Pau Gasol, Dirk Nowitski, Ilguaskas, chris kaman and Samuel Dalembert.

But more importantly, the hawks are too short to stop the talented 6’11 players like Marcus Camby, Tim Duncan, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett, Lamarcus Alderidge, nene and dwight howard from dominating.

But the real sad part is that hawks get dominated by other teams 6’9/6’10 players who either jump as high as josh smith (Gerald Wallace, Igoudala,Danny Granger), who are stronger than al horford (maxiel, mourning, boozer) or who are long and lean like Solomon Jones (Rudy Gay, tayshan prince, chris bosh).

I’m pretty much resigned to the fact that these are the players that we must support as hawks fans. I’m just hoping that Childress, Marvin and Shelden can hustle as much as Josh Smith. I hope that Solomon Jones and Salim get some playing time. I hope that joe johnson plays less time and produces the same or better because he is fresher.

By smartguy

November 5, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

This is why Woody sucks. Can’t win close games. Bad substitutions.

Sekou, just a few weeks ago, you said that playing Salim was a “no-brainer.” Two games in, no Salim, and no Solo. Woody kept telling these guys to change. But, even when they conformed to Woody, still nothing.

How many close, but unnecessary, losses can we take with this goof of a coach??

By cp

November 5, 2007 12:08 AM | Link to this

I missed the game but from reading the re caps it seems that Josh Smith is still taking bad shots. Someone really needs to sit him down and explain to him that he has to learn to drive the ball until he gets a better shot. I know he has worked on it and all but his shot selection leaves a lot to be desired. Yea please start Law. At this point I dont see no reason why not to.. How did Horford look besides the turnovers? I see Marvin had another good game by the stats but how did he look in the game? Same for Law.

By reese

November 5, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this

Mykhalc, guess how many turnovers chris paul, steve nash, tj ford, kobe bryant, carlos boozer, larry hughes and jamaal crawford had tonight. They each had 5.

Yes, turnovers are bad, but players who are trying to make things happen will make mistakes and I can live with that more than I can live with watching hawks players not hustling back on defense when the other team is making their comeback.

I can live with that when there are hawks players who won’t push the pace because they are afraid of making a mistake.

A lot of Jsmiths, horfords and law’s turnovers are because childress is too weak to handle a pass, Marvin doesn’t want the ball to lead a fast break or Joe Johnson passes the ball to a player with very little time on the clock.

I’m not blind, I do realize the some of their turnovers are due to not knowing how read the defense, bad dribbling skills and playing at a faster pace than Joe, Tlue, Marvin and Childress. Hopefully, the last can be corrected by watching film, talking too each other to see why the pass was made and why the catch was not and by coaches making a decision as to what players need to do if they really want to push the pace.

All in all, it was still a close game and it came down to the pistons have the last possesion with a realistic chance to score.

By mykhalc

November 5, 2007 2:06 AM | Link to this

REESE, i’m agreement that ALL had a part in the loss!! you just seem to find it hard to find any fault in SMOOVE!! and that ain’t bein’ real about the HAWKS problems tho it is certainly your right!!!

if JS wants to be one of the ‘GO TO’ cats then he has to play within his skills…PERIOD!! not what he WANTS his skills to be but what they ARE!!! that to me, is his biggest failure…LACK OF RECOGNITION!! and if what you say is true and JS is playin’ faster than anyone else then he is the one that needs to adjust until cats can match him!! you CANNOT MAKE everyone else match you, that’s unrealistic!! but playin’ faster and outta control is NOT BETTER than crankin’ it down a notch and bein’ in control!!! it is clear JS is outta control, is thinkin’ too much when he has to make a move when puttin’ the ball on the floor, and right now just DOES NOT have those skills (right now)…PERIOD!!!!

just like you do not wanna see cats not hustlin’ back down court (me either for that matter), i’m tired of JS doin’ the SAME things that lead to mistakes and TO’s!!! i’d much rather see MARVIN give the ball up to a guard then try to do somethin’ that he’s not comfortable with nor strong at!! SMOOVE needs to be smarter on the court!! he routinely makes the same bad decisions!! effort is one thing and b’ball smarts is another!!

he is a 4th year pro. he just needs to slow down and play within himself. it’s that simple!!!

By mykhalc

November 5, 2007 2:21 AM | Link to this

and just to add, it did come down to last posession and i enjoyed the way they battled despite shootin’ themselves in the foot with TO’s!! they really seem to have more confidence in themselevs this year. i just hope that the confidence turns into BELIEF!!!!

WOODSON really needs to make committment to givin’ ACIE the reigns to the team!! despite his turnovers tonite, he made good decisions, shot the ball well, and stayed outta foul trouble while playin’ solid defense. and he pushes the tempo more than LUE and AJ. WOODSON the future has arrived!! time to quit messin’ around…give ACIE the damn ball!!!

By J Chill?

November 5, 2007 2:42 AM | Link to this

It blows my mind that Josh Childress gets as much playing time as he does. I absolutely HATE his nickname, because it is the exact OPPOSITE, of how the guy plays ANY time the team gets into ANY sort of “crunch” time. I mean, I’ve now seen the guy MISS two slam dunks. One in each game. Both dunks(if I remember correctly) came off of missed shots, in which he rebounded the ball, then, seemingly tried to do too much, too quickly, and, rather than staying under control, and playing within himself. He’s just way too WEAK to take it hard to the hoop if there is anybody in the way, and, I’m assuming, since he realizes this, he tries to rush everything, in hopes of getting to the basket before anybody can get in his way. Somebody needs to teach him how to lay it off the glass, or, Heaven forbid, PUMP FAKING, so that atleast after he misses his DUNK, he gets to go to the charity stripe. I don’t even want to start on how many passes he lets skip off his hands when the team’s trying to run. It seems like every time our opponents go on a run, and dig into our leads, J Chill is on the court, making mistakes.

I agree, Smith has got to be consistent this season (continuing to shoot when your shot isn’t there that day does NOT lead to consistency, taking it to the rack does), but atleast Smith does other important things for the team while he’s on the court. His defensive prowess is INSANE.

By G Money

November 5, 2007 6:12 AM | Link to this

As much as I am a fan of Smoove’s, he’s got to be positioned differently. He floats over to the corner just waiting to take the 3 pt shot. That should be a Salim or Acie Law if they were out on the court. The reality was that they were not going to stuff it inside on the Pistons. Let’s be real about it. I appreciate Smoove’s work on Sheed as well. That was a man-size job for anyone. And he did a great job on Sheed and in help defense. What seems to be part of the problem is defining offensive roles. Somehow, Woody or Fizdale or someone has allowed him to just park in the corner waiting for the kickout. He should be the one on the inside kicking it out to someone else, That’s designed.

On another note, Acie was so much better at running the offense and defending than TLue. TLue is a good back up, but Acie should have started and finished. Woody put him in too late. Everytime Acie was in, the Hawks either came back or had the lead.

Chills had a tough game. Didn’t seem to know what to do. The Pistons were too physical for him. They were bumping everyone out there. In fact RIP fouled out bumping JJ and getting caught.

Marvin played well. His offense is needed. JJ started slowly but got it going. Hawks need another big time scoring threat who can also play D - Acie.

Horford acquitted himself fairly well. There were no plays run for him on the inside - could be a flaw in the system. Still you gotta love his toughness. He’s very game. The reality is that Pistons interior defense is just tough. You’ve got to give them that, particularly in the half court set, which we did not challenge enough with an uptempo pace.

Perhaps the Hawks braintrust could design some plays specifically for the bigs. There is no reward for good defense in this system just yet.

By the way, Hawks outrebounded the Pistons and had an better overall shooting percentage.

By ray

November 5, 2007 7:10 AM | Link to this

Reese, forget it. You can talk day and night about our team’s size deficiencies and how it relates to handling our opponents. People just don’t want to hear it and will give you all manner of analogies and comparisons (some of which are downright CRAZY) to prove that the roster is just fine and perfect the way it is, and they are all we will ever need. Heh…Trust me, you do NOT want to get into this one…As it is, guys like Horford, Smith, and even Sheldon are doing a great job on the boards so far in our two whole games. Defense has been fairly decent too. I sure hope this can be sustained throughout the course of the season. To be honest, I’d love to be proven wrong in my aforementioned opinions and thoughts. I’m sure Ando would too.

But you’re right Reese. This is the roster we have. No reason to think there will be changes of any kind. May as well get past the idea and hope for the best. But then, I figured that one out as soon as Billy said he was happy with what he had…as I’m sure you figured it out too.

G Money, while the rookie wall is still yet to come, I think Acie’s impact is as obvious as you say it is. We’ll know even better 10-20 games later. He just has to be careful when dealing with quick pgs and try to stay out of foul trouble. It’s clear we need him in the game.

What a close one. Last year that would’ve been a blowout. Our rookies are looking comparatively good. They’re definitely handling themselves well. I sure hope this can continue once other teams really get in a groove and start playing even harder. Especially that time of year when teams are competing for playoff spots…

Somewhere Hakeem Olajuwon has got to be shaking his head. I’m sure he didn’t spend all summer long teaching Josh Smith how to heave it up from beyond the arc. Where are these post moves? The few he did try against the Mavericks showed that he’s got a long ways to go. In order to do anything on the offensive end with your back to the basket, you have to know where the basket is and how far from it you are. You can’t put your back to it, start dribbling and moving, and then try to figure out where the basket is when you’ve picked up your dribble and are beginning to shoot. C’mon Josh, show us what you learned!

And still he fills the stat sheet. Good free throw shooting too. Even though we lost that one, you know someone’s gotta be yelling at ‘Sheed for fouling Josh on the 3 point attempt. His 3 point attempts almost don’t even merit contesting..

By jhan

November 5, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

Very happy with what I’ve seen so far from this young bunch. Everyone seems to be playing very hard & working on Defense.

We are just going to have to live with Josh Smith. He fills up the stat sheet every night. Unfortunately right now he’s averaging 7 TO’s per game. If he can cut that down to 3-4 that might translate into more W’s for the team.

When Childress get’s his act together & start’s playing his normal game, this team will be much better off.