Hawks

By A Thinking Fan

October 15, 2007 7:40 AM | Link to this

DOC Didn’t AL have a double/double last night? U would be dissing him if he had 8 turnovers. But u have nothin’ but excuses for YI man - who I happen to like, but he was not the answer for the Hawks right now. We needed some muscle in the paint. Crit is a scorer and will fill it up - no doubt. Hawks needed a true point (young player) to distribute the ball to its’ scorers.

By Glutton for Punishment

October 15, 2007 7:52 AM | Link to this

That game was horrible… S. Williams looked robotic. I am trying to cheer for him but he is making it very very hard. He would have good position but it would go off his fingers or be out rebounded. He is also having a hard time finishing around the basket. I am sorry to say but he reminds me of Allen Henderson..

The whole team was sluggish.. They had a defeated attitude just walking on and off the court during time-outs. The worse was J. Smith and I am a big fan of his.

Now J. Smith was in Houston during the off season…For what? I did not see anything differently in his game. Except that he LOST what jump shot he did have..

I am hoping that the lack of the 1st team and 2nd team point guards caused the problem… we will see.. !!!

By doc

October 15, 2007 8:26 AM | Link to this

atf, i am not dissing horford but only pointing out that soooo far he isnt able to do what we/billy/woody are asking him to do. read above if you need further analysis. i have said how many times that this team is unable to play with the big boys that have the same amount of athleticism because we have no answer for it. read above if you think i am off in my continued assessmant of where we need to be. if you go bck and read atf, i said just about the same things that sekou did but not near as eloquently or astutely in my last few posts. i hope that horford will be able to do it but we may have put him in a situation to fail just as we did sheldon last year. incidentally, i think that portland is going to struggle some more this year said it earlier and see that i can agree with sekou as well. so where does that put our hawks?

wake up guys it is time to ask the broken atlanta spirit to STOP pretending it can rely on the draft to wholly and completely provide the parts that are necessary. the REALITY is, unfortunately when you go to get the part that you want i.e, a tall/big in the draft the shelf is NOT full. we tried to take a guy from one shelf last year and assume that he could fit into the description of what was needed. ford parts are not the equvalent of porsche patrts. that is when you have to go and import it. again, if you remember, one of the reasons i pushed so hard for yi is i thought that yi would be more complimentary because he is a huge 3 more than a four and he would help josh smith because he would create space and mismatches for him rather than take up space, what we seem to see happening now. that takes coaching and vision my friend which may be lacking when it comes to this regime.

By Richard Kraus

October 15, 2007 8:39 AM | Link to this

Glutton has a good analysis. J. Smith and M. Williams have delusions of grandeur as far as shooting go, and S. Williams is just too ponderous to be anything more than a back up. Aldridge looked so much better than anything we have up front. Any decent front court should look fabulous against the Hawks offensively and defensively.

By doc

October 15, 2007 8:41 AM | Link to this

btw, as far as where josh smth needs to play i have always said when he becomes j smash he becomes an all star. with horford in there, where does it leave him? can you say out of position?

By A Thinking Fan

October 15, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this

DOC We all know how dysfunctional this whole thing has been. AH is not a 5, but at least he will get down there and “bump & grind with the big boys!** We haven’t had that in 3 years. I also wrote one of the Spirit owners and ask him to take YI first or AH 2nd. At least we got one of them.

Can we collectively say - DYSFUNCTIONAL!!!

By roan st

October 15, 2007 9:10 AM | Link to this

Doc, I like josh smith but after listening to some of you guys talk I’m starting to think he might have to be the one to trade. We all know that horford is a rock soild four and marvin/childress will be just fine at the three. My reasoning for this is because if we trade marvin then josh will still be in horford’s way. As much as I would hate to see smoove go he would help balance the roster out better. He’s not really a true three or a four but if he go’s then roles on the team could be more clearly defined. The hawks would have a lineup of law,jj,marvin,horford and new center. If marvin doesn’t play up to expectations then we simply stick childress in the lineup and marvin becomes the sixth man.

Ando ,doc, mykhalc, etc. Who do you guys think we could get with a package featuring josh smith and maybe shelden or salim for a big man?

By curious

October 15, 2007 9:31 AM | Link to this

If some you guys went to some of these games instead of making expert commentary from the radio and reading other people’s quotes. You will see nothing has changed from Woody. The emphasis on running has fell apart already and he has the same stagnant offense. JS stays in foul trouble because Zaza might be the worst defensive starting center in the NBA. The Hawks would be much better if Horford started. MW and JS we will never know if they have post games because 75% of the time in this offense they are 20ft away from the basket. In the Charlotte game JS was great in the first quarter. This was the result of postups. He got to the line and finished around the rim. For the next three quarters he never got the ball in the post again.

By curious

October 15, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

Also, anyone who thinks SW is a good should be admitted. He is at best a backup. It is shame that this guy gets an attitude every time he is taken out. No one here comments about his attituide. Also, the fact that Solomon has to sit on the bench playing behind this bum is sad. When you draft a guy #5 and he is only better than LW is a shame. There is no way that this guy can play the four in the NBA.

By ILL-logical

October 15, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

And Greg Oden wasn’t even ou there.People this was a west coast team,one without several of its key people and Ms Gabor, the landlord(more like the skateboard) got pounded. Management has got to see this so the only question is what are they going to do? I am more convinced that ever that JSmooth is the odd man out: Management will not play him in his natural position and continues to ignore Marvin’s COMPLETE inability to guard quicker/more athletic opponents.Plus with Za-erMs. Gabor, there are 2 defensive liabilities on the court. Hence JSmooth has to do the dirty work for not only his position but 2 others as well. That is no accident: someone is being set up to be a scape goat and it ain’t Marvin .

By smartguy

October 15, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Yes, SS. Completely agree with your height analysis. The difference between 6’9” and seven feet is important. Thats why I wanted us to draft Noah at #3. Yes, I love Horford like everybody else. But, we already have a roster full of 6’9” forwards (which is what Horford is).

Trying to cram Horford into the five will fail just like trying to cram JJ into the point, and de ja vu, Sheldon last year.

Some of you guys think that getting a quality seven footer in free agency is an easy proposition, but you usually have to way overpay (see Varajeo and others) and are still getting a less than proven player. That said, I think our ownership group is too cheap and too dumb. And besides, even if we had a good center, who has confidence in Woody to get quality production out of them?

By MsDee

October 15, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

You guys just calm down!! This is only our 4th pre-season game. This is the opportunity for us to make mistakes, coaches to see what and what not to do in a real game. Also, Acie Law nor Chills played which made a big difference in the outcome of this game. When Acie is playing, he gets everyone involved and everyone with the confidence to improve. Without him out there, they look like what they looked like on yesterday. Coach Woodson sees what and what not to do when Acie is not out there and I’m ok with that. So yall just chill out and relax, the Hawks still has a chance to do very well this season!! Have FAITH!!

By smartguy

October 15, 2007 11:16 AM | Link to this

MsDumb, I have had faith for two and a half years. Then, I woke up and realized just how bad Mike Woodson is. There is nothing to have faith in when it comes to player utilization under Woody.

By Clyde

October 15, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

MsDee must be new to the city or something.

Faith?

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By A Thinking Fan

October 15, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this

doc smartguy has it. It is how Woody uses these players. Woody would screw-up Detroit’s lineup. Which is a smaii9, but successful lineup…

Clyde keep those T-shirts handy and nearby!

By No center

October 15, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this

We have 10 forwards, no true center, a future starting pg who is not a pg, and the worst free agent in the last 5 years (Speedy, you are a bust. Take Mike Hampton to dinner some time!). This regime needs to go. Trade Josh Smith. Get a real center!!! Fire BK!!!!!!!!!!

By doc

October 15, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

gpf, glad you got away from the books long enough to join us.

atf, see you got the drift. i am still ever hopeful and i really like these players collected, the question is going to be how to put it together. woody says he needs a complete bench of 12 guys to play the game.

for example d’antoni does with what he has 7 or 8 guys which is pretty good assortment, still he has had to make huge adjustment as not all their players were first rounders. i am also sure he is not holding his hands up and shaking his head no if sargent/kerr were to come to him and ask him if he could spend a bit more money and get an athletic big for him to put alongside amare and marion.

By MsDee

October 15, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Wow Dumbguy..I meant smartguy, if i’m not mistaken, I do believe I typed my name as MsDee..Don’t be rude, it doesnt live up to your name..

By J Rock

October 15, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

You guys need to relax. There is plenty of talent on your squad. Just start:

Claxton Johnson Williams Smith Horford

Law Childress S. Williams Pachulia

That’s a strong 9 man rotation.

By mykhalc

October 15, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

MsDEE, is right about the ACIE and CHILS part. wrong about the WOODSON part…IMHO

CURIOUS, just the fact that i’m listenin’ on the radio, from san fran, ought to tell you what kind of fan I AM. season tix holder when i lived in ATL. check yourself on that one bro!!! and make sure you are in the seats too!!!!

ROAN ST, hate to say but i was thinkin’ the same thing. BUT SAMUEL and SEKOU hit on big points about WOODSON puttin’ JS on the wing to run sets for ZAZA. there should be no way that WOODSON should NOT be runnin’ sets for JS on the low block. as much work as he does on the boards and blocks he needs to be and should be rewarded with sets to his strength, whatever allows him to produce at a high percentage. now that is typical WOODSON, the one i have come to know as HAWKS HC!!!!!

By kb

October 15, 2007 12:28 PM | Link to this

Gang, just hang loose here on this. The Hawks personnel situation will panned out by itself. Yes, Mr. Knight should be tarred and feathered by some of the draft picks he made (getting M. Williams, S. Williams, and S. Claxton for an outrageous amount of money), but what’s done is done already. Let give this team a chance. I hate to say this but other than the Thrashers, this is the best Atlanta can offer.

By MsDee

October 15, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

The good thing about Woodson situation is if he cant and won’t get it done this season, he’s gone anyway so that’s why I say what I saw about Woodson. If he don’t correct the situation during pre-season time, then it won’t matter anyway cause he may be gone during mid-season.

By J. Shuttlesworth

October 15, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

By kb “I hate to say this but other than the Thrashers, this is the best Atlanta can offer.”

I’ll take the Braves any day until the Hawks at least make it to the post-season. Or pull of some creative personnel moves that improve the team.

All this talk of big people had me thinking of Darko Milicic. I certainly don’t think he’s the answer, necessarily. But he’s certainly the type of guy a team and owners with $$ to spend would have taken a chance on. It also makes the Speedy Claxton signing look like that much more of a mistake. Who wouldn’t rather have the enigma that is Darko instead of the speed-walking wounded that is Craig Claxton?

By Clyde

October 15, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

No center Speedy is the second worst free agent. The number one spot has to go to Lorenzen Wright. He brings absolutely nothing to the table and he stays hurt.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Astro Joe

October 15, 2007 1:43 PM | Link to this

J Shuttlesworth, clearly we need some cash to acquire a true center. But Darko is not likely the one. I read a few articles that suggests he may continue to struggle to be a legit player in this league. Let’s just say that his elevator doesn’t always reach the correct floor.

There is a comparably troubled player I would gamble on for one year. A big, athletic player who can bang with big bodies , run the floor and hit the boards. A young player with experience but only has 1 year left on his contract. A player who may be available as his team has 2 other centers who have more skills. But again, this guy has had some emotional issues in the past but may be worth a 1 year gamble (again, contract expires next June).

Kwame Brown, anyone? Shelden, Lorenzen and AJ work in terms of exchanging salaries. Assuming Mihm stays healthy, Kwame becomes expendable if Bynum earns major minutes. Kwame is NOT a shot-blocker, but he provides the size, strength and length to at least defend against post players of all styles. He should be strong enough to bang with an Eddie Curry while athletic enough to stay with Dwight Howard. Will he shut down either? No. But neither will 98% of other centers in this league. A Kwame/Zaza tandem could split the 48 minutes in the pivot and would likely give us 14/12 nightly. And for the third time, if Kwame can’t even be a worthwhile defensive center for 24-28 minutes a game, then he walks away in June.

I’d do it. I’d do it tomorrow.

By HB Ando

October 15, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

From Hoopshype:

“The Nuggets are keeping their eyes on the waiver wire for point guards that might become available. Karl said the Nuggets could find somebody who’s “better than Anthony.” Karl likes Roberson’s shooting, but he often forces shots. Rocky Mountain News”

Um, could someone pass this on to Billy Knightmare and encourage the obvious…….

By HB Ando

October 15, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

Also:

“The Nets waived forward Rod Benson to cut the roster to 19. New York Post”

Now I know that Benson isn’t going to improve our center situation, but his web blog is truly special. And on a team seemingly short on extroverted, outwardly clever personalities, this guy would be a joy to have in Atlanta, while we spend six months flailing away towards the inevitable hand-off of a top-five pick to Phoenix next summer. He’d give Sekou and the rest of us compelling blog fodder, while riding the pines and watching the L’s stack up quicker than pancakes on Oliver Miller’s plate at an all-you-can-eat breakfast buffet.

SIGN TOOMUCHRODBENSON!

(and fire Billy and Woody)

By curious

October 15, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc- I am not talking about someone out of town. Excuse me for not being more specific. I am talking about people who talk on this blog as if they live in the area but make comments that let you know they haven’t been going to these home games. Old dogs don’t change and Woodson is not going to start now. He knows he is a lame duck. Do you really think that he is going to flip the switch and become a running coach? This guy ran JJ down last year and is playing him 30min a night in preaseason. This is incredible. Also for all you trade JS for a center people. He is your center. I say that because of what he does on the court. He is the only one on the team that does dirty work. I think Horford will be a big help in that dept. Proof is JS avg 9rpg, Horford 8.5rpg. Sheldon is avg 2.5rpg and Zaza 4.8rpg. Supposedly this is your starting center and backup center. Both of the so called pf by themselves ave more rpg than the centers combined. There is no way for Atl to be good if JS and Horford are not on the floor together. The energy and interior defense is so much better than with those other guys. Mykhalc, that was my point about being at the game. No offense to you.

By mykhalc

October 15, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this

here’s light bulb idea while we are lookin’ for a center…how ‘bout WOODSON freakin’ put ZAZA out on the wing some and let JS set up on the block???? as SEKOU said, ZAZA likes to face up. then let him face up from the wing!!???!!! and whatever the set is that allows HORFORD to post with SHELDEN bein’ wherever he is on the floor should be a set they use for JS and ZAZA. ZAZA DOES NOT wanna bang anyway. so put his a$$ on the wing until he shows some desire to get his groove on down low!!!

and SAMUEL, i will say my bad from yesterday. but like i said, i only listened to the game and i asked questions that i really was lookin’ for some answers to.

typical WOODSON tho to not do the smart thing!! what makes this situation EVEN WORSE is that he DOES NOT put JS in a position of strength then EXPECTS the results to yield somethin’ other than what it is setup to do!!!! geeeessshhhhh!!!

and speakin’ of the BRAINLESS TRUST, how can you KNOW what you need at the start of camp and NOT go out and find a BIG to invite???? NOT A ONE!!!??!!!

for all of BK’s smarts in explodin’ the old roster, he has painted himself into a corner havin’ 14 guaranteed contracts goin’ into the season!!!

By Ricky Smith

October 15, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

I think we have a real shot at the playoffs this year, y’all. We have to start Horford at the 4 though - that dude is built like an ox. Finally our PG situation also seems sorted, really looking forward to this season. GO HAWKS!

By mykhalc

October 15, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this

CURIOUS, appreciate that and i’m clear now!!LOL

and i’ve been callin’ for HORFORD and JS to be on the court from the beginnin’!!! and like i said, i’m NOT SURE what the lineup would REALLY bring but you have someone out there that would actually compliment JS on the boards. HORFORD wants to bang…PERIOD!!! why is this sooooooooooooo freakin’ hard for WOODSON to try???!!!??? oh wait, i know that answer….

By J. Shuttlesworth

October 15, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

By Astro Joe but why would the Lakers make that trade? If they want to get rid of Kwame, they’ll be looking for draft picks or a real player in return (sorry Shelden) in addition to expiring contracts. That’s basically just a swap of expiring contracts. Except they’d end up with players they would just cut.

Do you see any Lakers fans trolling through NBA rosters, and thinking to themselves, “man, we could get rid of Kwame, and get Shelden Williams, AJ, and Lorenzen Wright. Sweet.” I think Kobe would really blow a gasket over that one.

But don’t get me wrong. I like where you’re going with getting a big guy like Kwame (even though I think he is not good at playing basketball). Talk about an elevator not going to the top floor. I’m just not sure I’d like to see the Hawks give up what it would actually take to get him.

By J. Shuttlesworth

October 15, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

and speakin’ of the BRAINLESS TRUST, how can you KNOW what you need at the start of camp and NOT go out and find a BIG to invite???? NOT A ONE!!!??!!!

right on.

By mykhalc

October 15, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

SEKOU, have you seen MW, JS, and HORFORD on the court together as the 3, 4 and 5 yet??? even in practice?? if so, what was take on what you saw??? thanks…

By mykhalc

October 15, 2007 2:49 PM | Link to this

the one player i keep comin’ back to in my mind is Andris Biedrins. i know he’s light in the pants but he’s definitely bigger than the 230lbs that NBA.COM has him listed at. i’d say 6’11” 245-250. but the cat plays big!!! good offensive skills and he’ll bang!!! i don’t think he’s gettin’ much burn here with GS these days. SHELDEN might fit into NELSON’s small ball game as a center!!???!!??

By newkid

October 15, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

Ando, ditto your 1:48 p.m. post.

By HB Ando

October 15, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

Myc, word is that GS will be extending Biedrins rookie deal to the ballpark of 5 years, $50 million. He’s not going anywhere. He’s only 21 and blew onto the seen last season. He was drafted 11th overall, by GS, the year we took Chills. While my pre-draft favs of Igoudala and Deng (I mean for who we had a choice of) were never an issue of hindsight, you can go ahead and chalk Biedrins up to a classic hindsight blunder, on Billy’s part. We didn’t have a center in ‘04 either, and he couldn’t have been too much of a reach for Atlanta, since he went a few picks after we took Chills.

Joe, we haven’t had our Chills versus Igoudala and Deng argument in a long time. The last you left it, you were continuing to maintain that neither guy could be viewed as superior to Chills. Do you still feel that way? They’re both viewed as emerging stars and are up for big extensions. Chills is still the sixth man on the worst team in the NBA.

I don’t need anyone to start in on the “fantasy stats don’t mean anything” argument, again, but I thought it was worth noting (nothing more than noting), that ESPN’s fantasy pre-draft projections have Igoudala at 15, Deng at 35 and Chills at 100 (after Bynum, Diaw and Chucky Atkins).

With every passing season, my argument that Billy was a fool for passing on those two, in preference of Chills, which began the very minute he made the pick, looks stronger and stronger.

By Astro Joe

October 15, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, Nellie played him early last year and then seemed to forget about him later (Beidrins). I don’t know if it was conditioning or Nellie just preferred his small line-up with Harrington playing C. But even when Boozer manhandled that team in the playoffs, Beidrins seemed to be buried on the bench. What’s the word on O’Bryant? Is he doing anything in preseason games?

J Shuttlesworth, I know how we feel about Shelden. I’m just not sure every other franchise has given up on him. I think he could play fairly well in the triangle offense. He’s a good passer and probably would excel in a more structured offense. Would LA fans and Kobe prefer J O’Neil? Sure. But Buss has all but placed Kobe on the “for sale” list so his wishes are clearly irrelevant to those who will be making a decision.

Let’s face it, there are NO “no brainer” big men waiting to be acquired. If we want a true big, we’ll either have to take on a bad contract, bad attitude or bad production. Someone suggested last week a trade for one of Seattle’s lottery-selected big men. Maybe after PJ has a chance to evaluate them, we can land the third string guy from amongst Swift, Petro or Sene. Now there’s a motley trio.

By smartguy

October 15, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

If Biedrins gets $50 for 5, then Smooth should get at least that, and soon hopefully.

By mykhalc

October 15, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

ANDO, i knew it was a reach to think GW would part with him. i thought it might have a chance ‘cause he did not seem to see the court much in the playoffs last year. and believe me, if i was GW i WOULD NOT do the trade. but for the sake of tryin’ to find a doable trade, i thought it might be worth a try…

By Khao$

October 15, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

I went to the game Sunday and I observed the following:

If Josh is going to play the PF, Horford has to be on the floor with him. During the brief spurts of time they were on the floor, they inside defense looked good. Why? They seem to be developing a chemistry already. Al helped out Josh against bigger guys. They both rebound well, are shot blockers and are active. Their speed, desire to hit the glass, and shot blocking ability made up for their lack of size (sort of like Golden State’s template) Woody has to exploit that and not expect them to play big against bigger bigs. With Zaza in there, Josh was left out to dry a lot. I like Zaza, but he doesn’t fit with what they what to do. With all due respect to my man Sekou, I didn’t see any chemistry between Shelden and Horford. I saw Shelden bobble balls, miss two dunks, and travel. That was about it.

By mykhalc

October 15, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

JOE, i haven’t been followin’ GS closely at all but i did see that O’BRYANT was gettin’ the start. BIEDRINS is seein’ less than 15 mins so far this pre-season according to NBA.COM . but like you, i noticed that he was buried on the bench durin’ the playoffs last season. that surprised the hell outta me!!! ‘cause how do you NOT play this cat???

well IF it is a doable trade then TRADE MACHINE says IT WORKS salary-wise!!! i would actually propose SHELDEN and SOLO for BIEDRINS and an additional body. this way NELLIE might be more inclined to do it since he could replace BIEDRINS with another LONG and LEAN!!!

By HB Ando

October 15, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

Whoops, just put this on the last blog by mistake:

By HB Ando

October 15, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Hey guys, just got a sales call from the Hawks, regarding season tickets.

You can imagine the earful I gave the guy (and I’m sure you all feel for him).

His name is Leo Sloss, and he’s a good guy. He’s looking for ticket buyers and Hawks fans.

If you are thinking about buying tickets, give Leo a call, at 404.878.3800, Ext. 3785.

After having to listen to me for 15 minutes, it’s the least any of you could do for the guy!

By mykhalc

October 15, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this

THANK YOU KHAO$…the first report on what i have been seekin’ an answer for…JS and HORFORD on the floor togther!!! WHAT I BEEN SAYIN’ TOO!!!

By Astro Joe

October 15, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, I was wrong. It looks like Biedrins got plenty of time against Boozer in the playoffs. He didn’t score nor stop Boozer, but he did play around 30 minutes a game during that series. He definitely was MIA during the Warriors run toward the playoffs in the last month of the regular season. I’d be willing to give up quite a bit for him, since he is like a Tyson Chandler type, above average at both rebounding and shot blocking. And he probably runs the floor better than Chandler. But the owners have to be willing to keep him around and he is due for an extension at the same time as Smith and Childress.

By newkid

October 15, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

AJ said:

“Someone suggested last week a trade for one of Seattle’s lottery-selected big men.”

Actually Joe I suggested a Shelden Williams for Johan Petro + a 2nd rounder in ‘08. Don’t know that Seattle would view Shelden as of sufficient value to make such a deal (especially with the other 4/5 types they have on the roster), but can’t imagine Petro (& a 2nd) would be of LESS value to the Hawks than Shelden. With Horford on board, both Shelden’s minutes and his perceived value will plummet precipitously SOON. Gotta get as much value for him (in a trade) as can be gotten before all takers really see how value-less he is (to the Hawks).

So maybe you don’t like Petro. Well, I’m not sold on him either. But we’re not talking about swapping two franchise savers here; this is about how to assemble the ‘best available complement’ to the current front line while using a superfluous ‘asset’ that’s sure to tank in value (even more) over the next 3 months. By the way, I see the 2nd rounder as potentially just as valuable (if not more so) as Shelden currently is to this Hawks squad.

By Wedgie Evans

October 15, 2007 4:09 PM | Link to this

I haven’t seen the Hawks play yet this year, but from what I saw last year this team has to replace Zaza in the starting lineup to take the next step as a team. Zaza is not going to fit an uptempo offense, and he is too big of a defensive liability to be a starter in a slow down offense too. The sooner Horford wins the starting center job from him the better. In terms of fitting in with the scheme, even Shelden would be an improvement at center over Zaza.

By mykhalc

October 15, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

KHAO$, what was your impression of JAMAAL TATUM??? in listenin’ to the game, he seemed READY!!! very good shooter from what i’ve read. could he make SALIM expendable?? well, i think SALIM is expendable anyway!!LOL how do their games compare??? thanks…

By Tyger

October 15, 2007 4:19 PM | Link to this

By Tyger

October 11, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

I hate to say I told you so, but…

its been obvious for the past few years that the Hawks needed help in the middle. All the Hawks’ BIGS are converted PFs and play that way, they dont have one true center on the team.

But its also disingenious to claim we need more size when you havent even exercised the talent you have. If Lo Wright has shown anything, its a willingness to bang and play hard. And if he’s not going to play against Shaq, then when is he going to play?

Thats one of the main problems I have with Woody and I see that nothings changed. His inability to fully utilize his assets. He wants to invoke a 9-10 man rotation as though we are a veteran team, which we arent, and win or lose with them.

While 5 other talented contributors sit endlessly despite being better matchups on occassion. Its those occassions that a good coach reaches deep into his bench and pulls out the one “goon” we have to lay some wood and keep it honest under the hoop, even if just for 5-10 min per game.

Otherwise, someone put out an APB on Michael Olowokandi a 7-1, 280 former #1 that can still defend.

Jerome James, 7-1, 300, NYK may be bought out soon or maybe we could dump Speedy, since its obvious we dont need him either.

Earl Barron, 7-1, MIA is being hidden behind Shaq, Zo, Doleac. AJ ought to pry him lose.

There are bigs around, no not franchise players but BIG guys that can give you a few quality minutes when called upon.

But what good would it do, if you never call upon them?

By Tyger

October 15, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

By Tyger

October 11, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

I hate to say I told you so, but…

its been obvious for the past few years that the Hawks needed help in the middle. All the Hawks’ BIGS are converted PFs and play that way, they dont have one true center on the team.

But its also disingenious to claim we need more size when you havent even exercised the talent you have. If Lo Wright has shown anything, its a willingness to bang and play hard. And if he’s not going to play against Shaq, then when is he going to play?

Thats one of the main problems I have with Woody and I see that nothings changed. His inability to fully utilize his assets. He wants to invoke a 9-10 man rotation as though we are a veteran team, which we arent, and win or lose with them.

While 5 other talented contributors sit endlessly despite being better matchups on occassion. Its those occassions that a good coach reaches deep into his bench and pulls out the one “goon” we have to lay some wood and keep it honest under the hoop, even if just for 5-10 min per game.

Otherwise, someone put out an APB on Michael Olowokandi a 7-1, 280 former #1 that can still defend.

Jerome James, 7-1, 300, NYK may be bought out soon or maybe we could dump Speedy, since its obvious we dont need him either.

Earl Barron, 7-1, MIA is being hidden behind Shaq, Zo, Doleac. AJ ought to pry him lose.

There are bigs around, no not franchise players but BIG guys that can give you a few quality minutes when called upon.

But what good would it do, if you never call upon them?

By mykhalc

October 15, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

JOE, i DO NOT think you are wrong. whatever stats you pulled have to be wrong!!??!! i watched GW in the playoffs last season and i was like ‘where is biedrins?’ he definitely did not see a lotta burn against DALLAS. and i think the same for UTAH. i could be wrong but somehow don’ think so. it was the ONE thing i was lookin’ for!! well that and BARON goin’ off!!! now that cat is sick!!!

By cp

October 15, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Well this team will only go so far with Woody at the helm. I really hope he gets it together this year but from reading some breakdowns of the preseason games, it looks as if nothing has changed. Package Sheldon and one of these pg’s for anybody at this point. Sheldon will be a decent player but the guy is just way too stiff.

By randy

October 15, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

OMG, I think I just heard someone say trade Josh Smith cuz he had a couple rocky preseason games shooting wise. He is still out blocking and out rebounding everyone even when he isn’t shooting perfect. Please, don’t base your comments on a couple meaningless games, base it on the past 3 seasons. And he has been nothing less than spectacular and only 21! Sign him!

By Jerry

October 15, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

Great read:

http://www.fromcourtside.com/2007/09/past-15-years-high-school-all-american.html

Thanks for posting last comment section Wally.

-J

By HB Ando

October 15, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Joe, I have to agree with you whole-heartedly: there is no easy or obvious answer to the question of “who?” when it comes to a legit option at the 5. Especially when it’s unclear whether we would be seeking a higher-priced vet (which would require some patience, in terms of a rookie extension for an outgoing player), or a lower-priced, “upside” option, which could be pushed for right now, but which comes with a more questionable performance outcome.

I think, increasingly, that the track record for max-contract players, who are in the vicinity of 30, is that they stop giving 100%. I mean how many Webber/Francis type buy outs does the league need to take a look at it’s contract structures (which I think it has, in some degree, based on shortening the max contract length a player can receive)?

So, based on the fact that we have talent still under rookie deals, and, as fans, we’d like to see a center this season, rather than, maybe, next summer or beyond, the obvious direction would be to trade potential for potential, and let the chips fall where they may.

When you look at just how reticent teams are to trade the Bynums and the Biedrins, guys who were taken around #10, in their respective drafts, it makes you wonder why leveraged one of their early picks to take a shot at such a player. I mean the minute we took Aykol at #59 a few years back, I was mad as heck, because I figured the pick was worth a flier on Randolph Morris or Dwayne Jones. I know that Soloman was the Jones pick, two years ago, but we still got no center (oh, and I don’t really “wonder” why, since Billy is the GM; I guess it’s more of a rhetorical “why”).

By MannyT

October 15, 2007 4:54 PM | Link to this

All you bloggers know Woody is in the last year of his contract. I’ll bet he is aware of the situation also. At the public scrimmage, it sounded like he was going to try to run.

However, I am not going to go crazy if he had a team’s worth of people out and decided not to in a PRESEASON game.

Bottom line is use October to figure things out and look for that chemistry that Sekou mentioned. I’m more in line with MsDee on this in October.

HB Ando—Rod Benson is amusing. If they cut him already, there probably ain’t too much hoops skills for the NBA. Maybe he can become the D-League’s John Salley.

By doc

October 15, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

randy, it was more about creating balance, not josh smith not getting his jumpers to go in was the way i read it. it also was an attempt to get the real need of this team a talented big with a marketable player who will be a star and to get even value, a big that can play. prob is horfod and josh may end up playing the same position only with a different twist is the line of thought. stock piling them wont work to get wins if the balanced roster NEEDS a tall or big that could fit with either j. smith or horford. josh is going to be a star and all agree and if he is traded then the guy coming in better be as good or the last piece to have the hawks headed deep into the playoffs the way i figure it or it will be pile on billy and the broken atlanta spirit.

By Ramon

October 15, 2007 5:17 PM | Link to this

Its funny how NO ONE is paying attention to one thing that Sekou mentioned.(their point guards are solid but nowhere near spectacular) Remember a few months ago, when SO MANY people on this very blog kept saying how much we should trade then 2nd pick for one of the Blazers’ PG. Now neither one of them brings as much excitement as Law does in limited action. Law is THIS YEAR’S Roy. A senior who was play overlooked because of lack of television exposure.

If we didn’t have a messed up situation for ‘owners’ I would suggest over paying about 3-4 million for the services of PJ Brown. There’s no doubt in my mind, for the right price the addition of him would make this a legit playoff team.

By Ramon

October 15, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

By the way, with the reports from the doctors, this may be a GREAT time to trying to see if a trade for the wizards Thomas would be out of question. May get him for a bargain price, b/c they definitely need bench help.

By Odenator...I'll be baack!

October 15, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

Easy Hawks fans…

This is a Blazers fan here, and I think both the Hawks and Blazers are in a “growth” year. Anyway you look at it, both teams will take its licking by the established teams in the West and the East. Question to ask both teams is…can these young kids keep in ticking?

By MannyT

October 15, 2007 6:13 PM | Link to this

Ramon If he will come here, give him the mid-level exception.

If you were PJ Brown, would you come to the Hawks? Vets near the end of a career usually want a lot of cash or a ring. We are not in a position to give him either. However, it is a chance to stay in the league for another year.

Adonal Foyle was available in August and you never heard a peep out of the Hawks on him. He would have been a good fit here. Now he’s with Orlando.

Unless the story about his health is a big fib Etan Thomas, stays in DC. I would put the odds of getting him on the cheap on par with getting Isaiah Thomas a date with Anucha Brown Sanders. Remember, he was the starting center for the Wiz over Haywood at the end of last season.

In the cash game of pro sports, the Wiz may get the insurance co to eat that contract if he does not come back and get some kind of cap relief from the league if he has to retire.

By doc

October 15, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

ramon, brown has not confirmed that he wants to play this year, mavs considered him and have dropped the idea. minutes were only 20 a night last year for the bulls but he brings a presence that would be good for this team if they are to go forward and maybe at the right price. the only question is if he wants to baby sit or be on a championship contender.

etan thomas hasnt even gotten out of the hospital yet. he had an abnormal leaky valve replaced on friday and has a good prognosis for being able to go in about 2.5 to 3 months is my thought at the earliest. just dont know if giving up a body for a guy who might not suit up for you at all this year if the hawks go into a tail spin early and are waaay out of it by february is a good idea. btw, the valve problem is the same one that one of the best recent southern literary humorist had, lewis grizzard.

By HB Ando

October 15, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

Yeah, Brown is a guy who, if he even plays, is only going to sign with a team with legit championship aspirations.

And the idea of trading FOR Etan Thomas, rather than trading something of value, to the Wiz, because of Thomas’ situation, is kind of insane. I’m thinking more like we trade Shelden to them for their first rounder, NOT that we trade for a guy who might never play again (some of these posts are simply cracked out).

Last summer I initiated the “either Marvin or Josh will ultimately have to go” discussion. To be honest, at the time, I was slightly tilted towards the idea that it might be Josh. At this point, Josh simply does things on the floor that very few NBA players can do. Now his shot selection, and his self-perception, on the floor, are, at times, confounding. But you can look at both guys, right now, and get a better read on what Marvin might/will become. And that’s a consistent, scoring three, who will score and be solid in most other categories. He DOES NOT have Smith’s upside. But he also comes with a little more security, in terms of some type of career implosion, either on or off the court. You just can’t tell if Smith is the next Marion, or the next Artest.

So the team will have a choice to make, in who is their 3 of the future; whom they will pair with Horford. And they will have to decide if either gives them stronger market currency, to trade for a legit center. Both will be very successful in the NBA, playing the 3. And it’s not outside the realm of possibility that we may have to give up the one with the greater market value to get the missing center that could take this team to the top of the East.

My point is that you can make a strong case for either player, at the 3, and along side Horford, at the 4, for the next 10 years. They do very different things. But both will bring legit talent to the franchise, if they stay.

So, is it more important which guy, Smith or Marvin, that you envision as the 3 of the future? Or is it more valuable to be willing to give up either, and hitch your saddle to the guy who stays, to get that one center that the brain trust (man that’s hard to type when it’s in reference to Billy and the Spirit) believes can take this other-wise emerging roster, to the top?

There was a time, several years ago, when I went on a month-long rant, about the idea of interchangeable parts, as it relates to building a winning, balanced NBA franchise. This question goes right back to the heart of that argument. If you believe both guys will succeed in the NBA, it’s less about which one you believe will be more successful, individually, and more about getting maximum “center” value for the one you move on, and trusting that the team will be just fine with the guy who stays (especially, or specifically, if he is paired with a legit center, and Horford at the 4).

Throw Johnson and Law into that front line equation, and you can see where the team needs to get.

It’s just hard believing that Billy, Woody and the Spirit can/will get them there.

By Ramon

October 15, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

Ando, how would getting rid of one of our MANY PGs (along with clearing up cap) for a STARTING (Thomas was starting at the end of the season) center be ‘INSANE’? The doctor has already said Thomas seems more than likely to return to action before the end of THIS SEASON. Would you rather wait a few months for his return, or wait for a season or two for ANOTHER draft pick (your idea) to ‘develop’ (especially a draft pick that would not be a lottery-Wiz are a playoff team)? There is no way possible 2 of the 4 pgs we have will make a huge difference compared to the presence Thomas would bring. Need I remind you, that he isnt a scoring center and this team doesn’t need a scoring center. However, he is one who hustles. The same way the Bulls gave up Curry because of his heart problems (and it ended up hurting them), the Wiz may feel inclined to do so now.

By HB Ando

October 15, 2007 9:20 PM | Link to this

Ramon, I’ll leave it to Doc to address the medical risks with trading for a player who just had open heart surgery. More to the point, though, I’ll just say that I don’t think there’s a team i the league that would trade an asset, even a weak one, for a guy with a guaranteed contract and the possibility that he may never play basketball again. If I thought a healthy Thomas was the answer, I might have a different take. But Thomas has been discussed on this blog on multiple ocassions, over the past several years, and there was never a consensus that he was THE answer.

Now, coming off of open-heart surgery, I can’t see how his status, in that regard, has improved.

I’m looking for a guy who is a potentially legitimate, long-term solution to the center position.

As I commented to Joe, I understand that there isn’t an obvious name that slots easily into that slot. But I’m pretty sure that Thomas neither takes us the playoffs, this year, or to legitimacy, in years to come.

Trading our driftwood for other teams’ driftwood isn’t a solution. It’s an appeasement to the uneducated hoops fan. We’ve got some talent, imbalance and redundancy in certain positions. Some of that talent is veteran, in the way of Lue and AJ (and Wright, if anyone in the league is silly enough to still believe that he’s interested in contributing), and some of it is young and upcoming (Marvin OR Josh, Childress, Zaza and/or Shelden-if anyone is silly enough to view him as ballpark worthy of a lottery pick, last year).

If we’re going to talk package, for either a center, or a replacement first-round draft pick, for the one we ridiculously gave away several years ago, then put a compelling package of those assets together and get a solution, not a cardiac rehab patient…………

By Ramon

October 15, 2007 9:45 PM | Link to this

‘potentially legitimate, long-term solution to the center position’

There are AT MOST 7 teams in the league who can say they have that. I would understand if you didnt want to trade talent for that, because that is a risk. However, in my mind, I do feel with talent at the 2,3, and 4, a center who concentrates on ‘hustle plays’ and tough defense, would do wonders. If you’re looking for an all star center, you’re not going to find it. If the Lakers wouldn’t give up an unproven talent in Bynum for Garnett or Kidd, imagine what it will take for any other team to give one up. However, with how much talent is at the other positions, an all star is not needed. Only a C who doesn’t back down from physical play.

By doc

October 15, 2007 9:48 PM | Link to this

ramon to continue further, the best comparison is ronnie turac who had a much more complicated and risky proceedure that went well. as far as healing he had to heal the same insult of a longitudinal crack through his whole sternum and heal it back and be stable enough to begin to wrestle with some really big monsters night in and night out. turak was back in 7-8 months which was ahead of most folks schedules. can thomas be back in less time? possibly, but if it is seven months, you count it out and that is why the gm said it is not out of the realm of possibility for thomas to play by the playoffs that begin in mid april. now do you think this team is going to give up a possible asset that might be trade fodder for a healthy warm body for woody’s bench or give up a guy whose contract is up at the end of this season to pay a guy to occupy a position in street clothes until the playoffs begin that i dont think the hawks will participate in?

oden guy from portland, i really like the club that has been put together out there, too. i definitely agree with the assessment that those guys are going to get some bruises before they smell the post season. i even said that before oden was out for the season. you guys might be a year or two behind the hawks since you sent randolph packing and considering you are in the west.

By HB Ando

October 15, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

Ramon, if you go back and look at what I just said, you’ll see that I differentiated between the two different classes of big men we could, ostensibly, pursue. So you haven’t said anything enlightening by mentioning Bynum (who I specifically noted as a young, still unproven, big, that was basically “untouchable”.

So, yes, you can get a guy who might be a minor upgrade over Zaza. But is that the “answer”?

Once again, there are two classes of admittedly rare big men we could pursue: established and carrying a big, multi-year cap number, and young, and carrying less financial risk, but also lacking the proven NBA performance.

I just don’t see how Thomas fills either bill. Nothing personal….

By Khao$

October 15, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this

Mykhalc,

If the Hawks are truthful with themselves, both Mario West and Tatum are going the make the Hawks second guess the 12th man on their bench. I know it’s preseason, but both hustle after the ball on D (Mario did during the scrimmage and during the game) and Tatum is not afraid to shoot. He penetrated a bit and pushed the ball. In the case of his ball handling, yes, he has Salim. However, I doubt he’ll make the team due to the contracts we already have. I could see him having a Royal Ivey role on a team, with a better jumper.

By smackie

October 16, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

i keep thinking about the Shelden Williams at #5 pick a year ago. Man, how could we have skipped Brandon Roy for this guy???????? I don’t care if we have Joe Johnson, both Joe and Brandon are capable of playing the point….imagine this starting five:

PG-Brandon Roy SG-Joe Johnson SF-Josh Smith PF-Marvin Williams C-Al Horford

Bench: Josh Childress Zaza Pachulia

wow!

By doc

October 16, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this

i want to make it very clear i didnt write the last blog note.

smackie i spent all last year shaking my head as well.

if it is any consolation, roy has as recurence of his heal problem that kept him out of 20 games at the start last year and will sit out the whole preseason.

By mykhalc

October 16, 2007 1:46 AM | Link to this

DOC, LOL

By doc

October 16, 2007 6:36 AM | Link to this

myk. thanks for getting the humor.

i figured if i didnt make a disclaimer i would have ATF up my you know what with a jibe or two. good day guys.

By ray

October 16, 2007 7:28 AM | Link to this

Myk, if the preseason is any indication, I will have to bow to your assessment.

Ando, one really does wonder what it will take to get the situation fixed. Have no reason to believe that a solution (an effective one that is) to the team’s problems will come about while Billy is here. I stand ready to gladly eat crow if I’m wrong, but don’t expect to even get a whiff of roasted bird…Last time we desperately absolutely needed to fill a position (pg), we got Speedy. I’d hate to see what the bank would be broken for this time when we are once again in dire straits..

By doc

October 16, 2007 7:51 AM | Link to this

ray, dont forget the big we got on the open market was lorenzen deemed done by a team that was worse than we were once they lost their go to guy a guy that essentially plays a big position. he wasnt even a good back-up for a very bad team before he came here.

By Mike

October 16, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

Guys, I haven’t been able to post, but I still read the blogs everyday. I agree wholeheartedly that the future of this franchise and legacy of the aforementioned ownership and management will be solely judge on whether they can parlay a deal for a legit Big. The Hawks would be the monster of the midway with a legit Big. Its times for Billy and the Spirit to Sh*t or get off the pot.

I still say the best chance to make a deal lies with Denver or New York. Both teams have an abundance of Bigs, and they have serious salary cap issues. Bynum would be the perfect fit for this squad, but his services may come at to high a price.

A less risky proposition may to pursue Calvin Cato from New York. He’s a legit 6’11’ shot blocker that would be an upgrade over what we currently have. He’s not a dominating Big that will command double teams in the post, but he could give us quality minutes on defense at the Pivot. I know he’s had some health issues, but think he’s healthy now. With NY acquisition of Zach Randolph, I know he will get limited PT time. The best thing about this deal is it wouldn’t rob the bank. Shelden, Zaza or Lwright, and another expiring contract should be enough to consummate that deal. I would definitely not consider Thomas in his present state.

HB you’re on fire my man.

GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By Astro Joe

October 16, 2007 9:54 AM | Link to this

Back to my “coaching matters” diatribe. There is no doubt that we will need a defensive center to help us get into the second round of the playoffs. I personally think that with a slightly above average coach, this current team could make a cameo appearance in the playoffs. So Portland’s long, lean and athletic players were dominating the paint against us. Where was our long, lean and athletic Solomon Jones during that game? How many minutes did he play? 5! Maybe Woody wanted Horford to get the experience of going up against that type of opponent. Maybe in a game that counts, he would have had Lo Wright do his foul machine thing and Solomon do the same (Aldridge nor Frye are known for being hard-nosed beasts in the paint). Maybe a Lo Wright forearm shiver would have made things a little less comfortable for Aldridge and Frye. We don’t know, because Woody opted to defend them with Horford, Smith, Zaza and Shelden. When you consider that the most likely center we could acquire is probably a guy who would occupy a spot from 10-12 on the bench, then you have to wonder if Woody would even employ such a resource.

Kelvin Cato is from Atlanta. He is a quality NBA shot-blocker and a legit defensive center. He is likely a very cheap player to sign (vet’s minimum). Maybe we have to move AJ or Wright first (for a 2nd rounder). Or maybe, Woody has told BK don’t spend the money on a 12th man and let’s ride with what we have. Who knows?

By kevin

October 16, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

I have to say, I would not be against trading josh smith for a solid center, if that team also takes speedy. A tony battie type of player would be a great fit with this team. They do not need scoring , just defense and rebounding. Scott Pollard would be an upgrade at this point.

By mykhalc

October 16, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, cash, MC, and VISA accepted also!! will even take PAYPAL with no confirmed address ‘cause you are my bro!!!LOL

seriously my friend, WOODSON has gotta start the game with HORFORD, MW, and JS to SEE what they’ll bring. WOODSON will continue NOT to get an extended look if HORFORD comes in for ZAZA but MARVIN or JOSH have already accumulated some fouls. start him so we get a REAL look at the lineup…PERIOD!!!!

JOE, gotta agree with your last statement…Or maybe, Woody has told BK don’t spend the money on a 12th man and let’s ride with what we have.

i’d say this IS the case more than not. ‘cause how can you NOT invite ANY BIG to camp if this is not the way the team was lookin’ at!!???!!!??

if WOODSON does look at HORFORD at 5 and let’s say he’s the answer among the players we have now. well now the projected 5 tandem of ZAZA and SHELDEN is poof!! this is where i think you package ZAZA and SALIM to get the next big. i think ZAZA would be easier to move than SHELDEN and have more value (same thing i guess LOL) but if SHELDEN and SALIM are attractive to someone then just as well!!! i’m back to my boy BIEDRINS!!! (i know ANDO) but IF it is possible BIEDRINS can fill the 5 or the 4 spot. HORFORD could go back to the bench with BIEDRINS startin’ at the 5 or BIEDRINS could be the first player off the bench for HORFORD or SMOOVE.

movin’ SHELDEN would be an admission (not that WE need one) by BK that it was the wrong move!! (i know ANDO LOL) so knowin’ that, i think ZAZA could be the odd man out ‘cause of this lack of desire/willingness/skills to groove down low!!!!

and i’d sign JAMAAL TATUM for SALIM’s spot!!! simple eh!!???!!! works for me!!!LOL

By mykhalc

October 16, 2007 1:28 PM | Link to this

ANDO, your October 15, 2007 8:27 PM post is tasty man!! and i know you ‘ve been sayin’ this for at least as long as MARVIN has been with the team. but i’m slow to come around bro. but it’s amazin’ what a player like HORFORD will open one’s eyes to!!LOL

if it truly comes down to MW or JS i think your player profiles are dead on-point. and i’ll add this, even tho at some point i’m SURE you’ve said it. the ‘targeted’ center would help determine who to keep at the 3. if the center would bring some offensive skills then you can live more with JS at 3 and know that nite-in, nite-out he will be consistent with most things EXCEPT his outside shot. if it’s a defensive type minded center only then you gotta go with MW to keep/have enough outside shootin’ at different spots on the floor.

BUT until then we play HORFORD at the 5 to see what he brings with the forwards that are already in place!!!!

By randy

October 16, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

LOL everyone is getting all pessimistic after one preseason loss. Remember we also have 3 wins. Sure we still have a weakness at center, but it has been like that for 3 years. Sure we can go out and get some stiff legged 7 footer but I don’t really think that fits in with our team philosophy this year. On another note, I think Law should be our starter. Notice our only loss came when Law didn’t play a minute. The guy is a playmaker.

By mykhalc

October 16, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

RANDY, you need to start duckin’ the debris headed your way from a post like that!!LOL

Sure we still have a weakness at center, but it has been like that for 3 years. NOW THAT IS A CLASSIC!!

but you were on-point about ACIE!!!

DUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL (just tryin’ to help ya out bro)

By The Flash

October 16, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

Does anybody see any discernible changes in the approach to the game on offense? Anything resembling the Princeton concepts that Doc said Drew was well versed in?

If not, then should anybody be surprised that the interior players struggle on offense? I’m not.

With Smooth at the 3, and the offense running primarily through JJ, catches for the bigs in rhythm, on the move, and with space will be rare. That is where intelligent bigs can gain the advantage that they need to be percentage scorers unless their names happen to be Shaq or DH.

Also, unless and until the bigs become the pivot of the offense, integral to changing the point of attack, I believe that this team will not reach its potential.

Anybody see Al, Sheldon, Zman, getting the opportunity to do any of that, or are they more or less ad ons who are supposed to do something magical when the ball happens to come their way?

Has anyone ever asked Billy or Woody or Levison or Gearon about anything close to this. Any of the writers? Any of the media guys? What is it that they talk about?

BTW, if you watched Sheldon dominate just about everyone offensively in college, you will know that he moves terrifically without the ball, routinely makes very athletic catches that lead to easy points, and when he catches it in GOOD spots, can score with multiple options. He has always been somewhat stiff. So was Bob Petitt, the best power forward the Hawks have ever had.

By Astro Joe

October 16, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this

Flash, I agree that Shelden could be useful as a facilitator on some offensive sets. Same with Horford. When Sekou mentioned the chemistry between the 2, I wasn’t surprised as they each played extensively with talented big men in college.

By curious

October 16, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this

Flash- This isnt’ Duke and there is nothing athletic about Sheldon. He missed two simple dunks the other day. He cannot catch the ball in traffic and go straigth up in the air. He is like a 6ft 7 Dikembe. He has no lateral quickness. The biggest problem I have with the guy is his engine. You can always play hard not it might not be effective but you can make things happen. Esteban was like that. Sheldon was supposed to do the dirty work. He doesn’t even foul people hard. He gives up and ones all the time. In his defense he can’t win. He is the 5th pick in the draft and everyone knows he is not worthy of it. Paul Millsap and Craig Smith (2nd round picks) had better numbers in their rookie year and arguably are better players than Sheldon.

By mykhalc

October 16, 2007 3:02 PM | Link to this

FLASH, my man, in listenin’ to the games the BIGGEST difference is what happens when ACIE is on the floor!! the team is definitely MORE up-tempo, easier baskets, especially in transition. and cats are seein’ the ball in different spots on the floor. he IS a difference maker…PERIOD!!! now, whether it amounts to the PRINCETON concepts, that i’m not sure about.

By Ramon

October 16, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

Honestly, IF Woodson does what he says in run this year, Horford (a true PF) would be one of the top ten CENTERS in the league statistically.

Flash, I do agree with you, the offense should run through the blocks -> out. I believe by doing that things will be alot easier for JJ, Law and MWilliams. Because then open shots become more routine, and more driving lanes open up. Even on the blocks, I dont believe there are more than 3 PFs in the league who can guard Smith.

After hearing some opinions, I agree Thomas may not be the best move now. However, if they cant find a legit C, without trading Smoove (sorry but Smoove IS the most valuable trade asset on the team INCLUDING JJ, all GMs around the league know that), then why not play where you make teams have to match up with you. Instead of matching up to them, do things on the offense that make you seem like a genuis for have 3 forwards on the floor at the same time.

Also, in half court sets, JJ is listed as 6’7, why not try to post him up more and run the two man game with Law on the perimeter and Williams up top. This also will lead to more penetration lanes, and even backdoor lobs for Smoove and Horford.

By Ramon

October 16, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

Also, I KNOW some of you may not like this idea but I think Woodson should truly consider starting Childress over Williams. By starting Chills, Woodson would have the luxury of putting JJ on the opposing team’s weakest wing on the floor. This will lead to JJ having more energy late in games. Williams can still play 30+ minutes coming off the bench, and would have a better chance to have plays ran for him when he comes in for JJ and Chills goes down to the 2 ( ala Ginobli).

If Williams could guard the 2 spot effectively, I’d be all for him. But this would give the Hawks a better chance to always be in the game offensively, by having their best offensive player rest more on defense. Also, with Williams scoring coming off the bench, this would prevent fewer 2nd and 3rd quarter let downs when they goto the bench. But if Woody starts Speedy over Law, none of this work b/c Speedy cant shoot. :( lol

By mykhalc

October 16, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

is it just me or is there some mystery surroundin’ SPEEDY right now??

CHILS deserves to start as much as MARVIN, no doubt. but then you have the problem of neither forward havin’ consistent outside shot!! and if SPEEDY is on the floor too…OMG!!!! ‘nough said!!!

By The Flash

October 16, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Have the offensive concepts changed with Drew in second chair. If not, how can anyone expect that productivity inside will improve on other than a sporatic basis?