AJC > Sports > Hawks > Blog > Archives > 2007 > September > 03 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USHow low can I go? Not much lower than this!
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
After a weekend that included the most humiliating loss in the storied history of college football (and arguably all of sports), I couldn’t crawl on my belly in the jungle and get any lower (and forgive me in advance for venting about Michigan, but surely you didn’t think I’d come here and ignore the subject, did you?) than I am right now.
I feel your pain Hawks fans. I know what it feels like, thank you Lloyd Carr, to be the laughingstock of your sport, justifiably so in my case as a Michigan fan.
Now I realize what it must be like to take heat from the rest of the world’s fandom and not have a snappy comeback because, well, most of what’s being said is in some way shape or form accurate, thank you again Lloyd Carr.
But unlike some cat who is only around to gloat when things are going well, I’m here to take your licks now that my Wolverines have been beheaded by mighty Appalachian State - and I refuse to hate on those boys from Boone, NC, because they’ve won more national titles in the past two years than my boys have won in my lifetime. The better [prepared] team certainly prevailed Saturday. And I can live with that.
That said, this was indeed the weekend from Hades for m and my big brother, who like me refuses to root for anyone else other than the Maize and Blue, despite our disdain for the head coach and his conservative ways. We suffered through the longest Labor Day weekend on record. And that’s not including the sweltering temperature over the grill (he ran the show and I was his assistant).
To make matters worse, we were so convinced that a victory was a given that we didn’t even bother watching. Early Saturday morning we slapped up a new door on the screened back porch of our parents’ house and then slid down to the Edward Jones Dome to watch Illinois and Missouri play their season opener (the capper was a the girl sporting a truly hilarious “MUCK FICHIGAN” t-shirt that expressed the jubilation of the crowd when it was announced that the Wolverines had joined the list of infamous upset victims on par with Mike Tyson after Buster Douglas knocked him into “oblivious”).
The two Michigan haters in our party (my pops and my son, who is a fair-weather fan of whatever big name team is closest to where we live at the time - he’s bragging on his Georgia Bulldogs these days) relished seeing our misery up close, as did the thousands of other haters in our midst. But we persevered. We sucked it up and took it all in, knowing full well that the jokes won’t last forever … will they?
No, I won’t get over this loss anytime soon, and thank you ESPN for riding this story harder than Mike Vick and Barry Bonds put together. But even if my boys run the table and smash somebody in a BCS bowl, it won’t help ease my mind. Pain like this doesn’t go away overnight. It just doesn’t.
So now all I can do is pour myself into all things Hawks.
And there’s no better time to get caught up in the work matrix than right now, with most of the Hawks returning to Atlanta to begin their so-called player arranged workouts in preparation for the Oct. 2 open of training camp.
It really is good to see someone taking their preparation so seriously (you might want to try that Lloyd Carr). The Hawks are so eager to get things started that they decided to come back an entire month early, just like the Portland TrailBlazers, another young team loaded with talent that needs every advantage to compete against more seasoned teams in its division and conference.
If chemistry development is the reason the Hawks are gathering so early, kudos to them. They’ve come back early in season’s past, but they were a much younger bunch then. To see them making the commitment now, with so many of them two, three and four years into their careers, is a sign that the proper foundation (despite a putrid won-loss record) for some sort of success is clearly in place. When that success translates into something that propels you beyond the regular season is anyone’s guess.
The truth is, players are always feeling good during the summer. Fort-five minutes of blind optimism three days a week must be written into the summer training regimen for most teams - how else to explain the unbridled confidence of guys like Zaza Pachulia (other than spiked Gatorade)?
So again, forgive me for venting, and stay tuned for updates on who looks like what and other assorted observations from Hawksville - the pre-training camp edition.
Comments
By The Flash
September 10, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this
Bob Knight got a hold of Woody first. I hate Knight, not just because he’s a freakin bully, but also because he brought bullyism into my game big time. It was always present, but only in dribs and drabs. The guy made it part of the fabric of the game. The Internationals are only just beginning to meaningfully change that.
By doc
September 10, 2007 4:00 PM | Link to this
thanks flash for the input. bobby ball rather than larry, huh? too bad, needs some creativity somewhere along the line.
By The Flash
September 10, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
Doc Never liked Woody as the choice. Woody is not Larry’s protege, he’s bobby’s. Larry you can not try to emulate. Larry has an extraordinary gift in being able to understand the game from everyone’s perspective and help people improve their perspectives.
In other words, he facilitate’s learning and understanding. In addition, Larry is able to make his words, crucial words, understood on a viseral level by his players. This happens over time, with Larry, over an amazingly short time. So, when Larry tells a player something in the course of a game, or practice, the player actually gets it. Makes him an extraordinary game coach—boy were Billips and Rip just that little bit smarter when he was there, don’t you think—and practice coach.
Larry also is an offensive genuis. I don’t mean x’s and o’s genuis. I mean, he is a 5’ 9” guy who was playing for a freakin tire company and made everbody in the 1964 Olympic trials including Dollar Bill look like novices kind of genuis. He absolutely understands the gestalt of the game and has the ability to bring people along for the ride.
So, Woody might have tried to emulate Larry, but no can do. Now, Herb, Herb knows the game, but he is not Larry as described above, at least I have heard none of the boyz ever describe him in those terms. If Herb were the mentor for a person with some of the gifts that Larry possesses, then, to the extent that the styles of the brothers, there overall philosophies, might mesh, then we might have had something.
BTW, not that I know, but I have to think that the devil always is in the details and that the details change dramatically based upon personnel.
One final word of caution, Doc. I only met Larry once, when I was 15, after the final game of the Olympic trials, which were held at St. John’s. I did stay at a holiday inn express last night, though.
By ILL-logical
September 10, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this
Well after this weekend’s performances can there be any doubt that there isn’t a winning proffessional sports GM in this town?
From JS’s mindless pursuit of the perfect suburban hero to guide the Braves to RK’s four wide reciever drafts/ free agent signings, we have been robbed: of any chance to hoist a championship banner high.
So get ready for a long hard slog through this winter with your Atlanta hawks. The fix is in.
By JB
September 9, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
This morning: Z-Man. I feel your pain. Sorry to borrow a phrase from the husband of the biggest stumbling block in the path of our first black President—who would ironically be the first from the Great Lakes region since Gerald Ford (who played his football at—you guessed it—Michigan) was Commander-in-Chief.
Anyway, I DO feel your pain. See, my Tigers just got declawed by South Florida’s Grothe & Mike Ford(Are you still feeling the weird six-degrees-of-separation vibe? I know I am.) So I’ve got no heart for riding Michigan on down to the ground.
By Braves Fan 79
September 9, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this
Well at least u cover a real sport in basketball and not a all hype no action sport like college football! I mean in what sport can u go undefeated and STILL no NO chance at a title?? COLLEGE FOOTBALL SUCKS!
And by the way…dont feel so bad…football has always dissed the underdog. App state could beat half the teams in the top 25.
By doc
September 7, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
flash since woody is a protege of brown was this the type of game brown taught or di woody just now go to the creativity lectures. what gives on the woody scale in comparison to what brown did?
By The Flash
September 7, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
Sounds wonderful, but maybe not. Look, the season itself is way, way, way too long. Did I emphasize that enough? No. Add a couple of zeros, just in case.
What is the biggest potential impediment to the Hawks’ success? No besides, Woody. That’s right boys and girls. Raise your hand if you remember that matching injuries to Speedy and Marvin before the season even started.
Now, if they are getting together to work on new concepts, especially offensive ones, being instituted by Larry, then I say that there is considerable reason for optimism.
If they are also practicing Woody’s bobby-ball approach to defense, however, in a wierd attempt by Billy to salvage Woody’s job I say look out. The game does not divide up that way, and trying to make half a loaf will diminish the offensive production/control-of-the-other team that will bring folks into the stands. It might also produce more of those nasty things that ruin seasons that more fruitful approaches to the entire game might not.
We’ll have to see. Just talkin ball with my boyz on a hot summer day.
By Fred Everett
September 7, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this
You got to love their attitude. From what I hear…”all” the Hawks players worked hard this summer and all have reported in excellent shape. Hang on…the Hawks Playoff Express is getting ready to pull out of the station !
Go Billy…Go Hawks !
By smartguy
September 6, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this
That’s classic, Wayne.
Astro Joe, couldn’t have said it better myself. Of all the Hawks, coach Woodson is the single individual who has progressed or improved the least.
Notice how Petrino isn’t making any excuses??
By doc
September 6, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this
man, someone got lost in cyber space. hope wayne makes it back to whereever he is going with that rant.
By wayne
September 6, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this
Im amazed that some teams that dont play their football within the ACC or the SEC can justify being ranked so highly on the top 25. Its ridiculous. There is no conference that comes close to being as strong. Yet every year we see other mediocre teams, playing against mediocre, Div 2 strength teams, get ranked above teams like Tennessee, Georgia, Auburn etc. The rankings are a farce. Just like De Angelo Hall thinks he is a football player.
By wayne
September 6, 2007 7:05 PM | Link to this
Im amazed that some teams that dont play their football within the ACC or the SEC can justify being ranked so highly on the top 25. Its ridiculous. There is no conference that comes close to being as strong. Yet every year we see other mediocre teams, playing against mediocre, Div 2 strength teams, get ranked above teams like Tennessee, Georgia, Auburn etc. The rankings are a farce. Just like De Angelo Hall thinks he is a football player.
By Astro Joe
September 6, 2007 2:06 PM | Link to this
Sekou, thanks for the article about the guys getting back together to work on chemistry. Do you know if Woody will be working out early with Riley, Phil, Popovich, D’Antoni or Nellie to learn how to coach a winning club? How to design an offense that runs more than 3 plays and utilizes the talent of the players? Or how to demand effort without demeaning the team? Because if he comes back with the same coaching skill set, I don’t care if these guys have been working with Naismith himself, we’re still looking at a brutally long and painful season.
By ray
September 6, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this
Ol’ Clyde. Reliable as ever, sniff, sniff. Now I almost feel like the season’s started.
By Clyde
September 5, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this
ROLL TIDE
FIRE BILLY AND WOODY
By honest_abe
September 5, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
i hate to admit it doc but i thought tech would roll in that game.. so much so that i had to put my hatred aside all in the name of $$$$…
lol ray…
By honest_abe
September 5, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
i hate to admit it doc but i thought tech would roll in that game.. so much so that i had to put my hatred aside all in the name of $$$$…
lol ray…
By doc
September 5, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
oh, that was supposed to read “runner up to the” southern conference champions instead of “championship”. ugly real ugly.
btw, there is another replay of the app state game against, now who was it?’ on sport south for thursday evening for the folks that missed the replay last night on the big ten cable network.
By ray
September 5, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this
Doc, good point.
Honest Abe, you aren’t the only one looking over the edge of foolishness. You bring the canoe, I have a couple of paddles. Oh wait, it’s supposed to be “up sh**’s creek WITHOUT a paddle…”
By MannyT
September 5, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this
Sekou,
Keep your head up and think about what that girl’s shirt would look like in green.
STUCK FATE
They know who rules!
By smartguy
September 5, 2007 4:11 AM | Link to this
I’ll trade Mike Woodson for Lloyd Carr any day of the week.
By Dan
September 4, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this
Sekou
As a Michigan State graduate and diehard Spartan fan (I was at the UAB game this weekend), all I can say to you and your Wolverines is: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…
Times are changing, my friend. Mark Dantonio is the new head football coach in the state of Michigan. Deal with it!!
By doc
September 4, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
well guys there is a replay of the michigan - app state game on channel 48 right now. sekou dont miss this opportunity.
sekou, your words are exactly what has been discussed over and over again by the minions here that the lack of creativity and experience leaves this young team alone to defend for itself. the exact words you used to describe carr could be said for the leadership of this team and organization. this is the year to either get er done or be done, however if we rant and you come back and say be cool we all know now all we have to do to get an empathetic ear is to write the word CARR. yeah sekou, it is difficult to watch this organization and continue to be a fan, now you have just a small taste of it after you men in maize looked no better than championship southern conference champion.
honest, what did you think of them bees? even a dog fan could grin at a jacket win if it is at the golden dome. i liked the way the dogs dispatched the cowboys. i mentioned this earlier in the summer that weiss spent his summer in court only to lose a case against good docs who saved his life after he couldnt manage a part of his life and wanted to blame others. it would only make him very vulnerable and no longer unbeatable. karma.
sekou, it is now 7 - 7. appstate just ran away from the boys in blue.
By JohnD
September 4, 2007 6:17 PM | Link to this
Sekou,
Does all of this “Carr Bashing” mean you hope Michigan fires the coach and hires June Jones away from Hawaii?
You did mention ASU ran 4 wide with speed and ability at the skill positions. That sounds like the Run and Shoot to me.
I love how the “old school” dismisses the Run and Shoot but then recognizes a team with a better than average QB and those fast, skilled wides can beat a stodgy team like Michigan. Helps to have little “D” as well.
Now for the Hawks. Can they apply the ASU model to the upcoming basketball season? There are several talented wideouts but is there an above average QB? Maybe, if Acie Law is the real deal.
Defense? That is the big question. Will the Hawks be able to stop the other teams? Our new Gator better be a stopper in the middle or ZaZa better be much improved on defense.
Do the Hawks have a defensive scheme? Nothing obvious in the last couple of years but then there was not much to work with either.
This is a make or break year for a lot of Hawks, not to mention the GM, coach and ownership.
I, for one, am tired of break and would like to see 07-08 be MAKE!
By Wink from Lithonia
September 4, 2007 5:47 PM | Link to this
The world must be coming to an end…Michigan getting whip my the mighty Appalachian State…well you know, the meek shall inherit the earth.
Which also means our meek Hawks may have a shot. If I am wrong we better enjoy our 45 minutes of summertime optimism.
By Hawksville Resident
September 4, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this
I want to believe every season that year will be the year the Hawks turn every thing around, become the exciting team people have been waiting for, and burst into the playoffs as the wild card no one wants to face and every season I get let down… Well mom didn’t raise a quitter! Go Hawks!
By honest_abe
September 4, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
appasomethingoranotherwhatevermygodthisisalongname!
heh.. all good sekou, even the mighty fall from time to time. i just thank god it wasn’t georgia.
great to hear about the boys getting together a little early. i wonder who suggested the great idea… i get this weird inkling that it was josh smith. he seems like the only one on this current team with enough fire and passion to be of leadership ilk. just sitting here wonderin’ if we as hawks fans are watching a ‘lil’ boy grow into a man and a decent ball player, once said to be rough around the edges turn into a superstar right before our very own eyes!
damn that’s me falling off the deep end again. season must be near.
By Don!
September 4, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this
Don’t feel too bad Sekou, in addition to being a Hawks fan … I’m a Braves fan too — and those guys are killing me right now. I think we might need to just change the team’s nickname to the Atlanta Sybils, since their personality changes — and not for the better — every few days.
As for your Wolverines, I think the problem begins and ends with Carr — who won’t change his style from the early ’90s. What ASU did to them was run a spread offense with good talent and speed at the skill positions. In some ways, be thankful you all lost to OSU last year, because what happened to Michigan this Saturday was akin to what Florida did to OSU in January. You have to beat speed on offense with speed on defense — and Michigan looked like a team more built and ready to win in the cold of winter, than in the Summer or in a dome.
Later,
Don!
By Sekou K. Smith
September 4, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
I haven’t bought an album in forever. It’s so easy to download music now that I just don’t spend the time or money on CDs like I used to. And to be honest, I’m not the world’s biggest Kanye West fan (hope that wasn’t a joke, you asking me if I was going to buy his album).
And I don’t feel bad Tyger. In some twisted way I feel vindicated after years of screaming that the sky is falling (I know I shouldn’t be like that but I can’t seem to help myself).
And hey, $#$@ happens, sometimes when you least expect it. I feel like Lloyd Carr and his coaching staff got exactly what they had coming to them. I do feel for the kids, because we’re talking about the emotions of young men who expect to be led properly.
By Tyger
September 4, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
Dont feel too bad SS, as a former I-AA player, I never believed there was much difference in talent between the two.
The I-A’s have more resources and depth and can plug All-state players in 3 deep, the I-AA’s have one unit and its a wrap.
But the talent is undeniable, see Jerry Rice, John Taylor, Walter Payton, John Stallworth, Greg Lloyd, Doug Williams, Harry Carson, Shannon Sharpe, Steve McNair, Too Tall Jones, Deacon Jones, Mean Joe Green, etc.
Saturday was not only a victory for Appalachian State but a victory for I-AAs all over the country.
Three cheers for all Underdogs.
By ray
September 4, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this
You know…I keep hearing that…year after year…
By jonny
September 4, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
the hawks will be in the playoff next year
By JJ
September 4, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
Sekou are you going to get Kanye West’s album?
By Greg
September 4, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this
This is a bad year for ATL sports. Call it ATL 2008 No Playoff Zone. No playoffs for the Braves Hawks Thrashers, and Falcons. Falcons high draft pick 1-10. Hawks lottery pick goes to PHX. Braves winning record, but not playoffs due to poor pitching. Even worse the Braves reduce the talent pool even more by letting AJones go over the summer.
Oh well get ready for a long sports season in ATL. However I will still watch or attend a lot of Hawks, Falcons, and Braves games this year no matter what.
By BIG 10
September 4, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this
Now only if Michigan can come back and win some big games maybe they could knock the whole Big-10 out of the BCS.
By Astro Joe
September 4, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this
Sekou, did you hear from Steve Smith over the weekend?
Glad to hear the guys are back in town. Can’t wait to read a report on Marvin. I recall reading or hearing that the 3rd season is typically when you learn what kind of player someone will be for the next 5-8 years.
By Willie Coyote
September 4, 2007 8:17 AM | Link to this
Yea, Michigan looked slow and very ill-prepared for that one. It happens I guess. I enjoyed watching my Jackets pound the Irish…it made attending my wife’s class reunion more bearable. I’m a little worried about the passing game though.
I usually try to be optimistic about the Hawks at this time of year but I think it’s because I have some kind of psychological disorder where I like to come crashing back down. Maybe I’m over that now because, while I’m looking forward to the season, I’m not expecting anything more than maybe a 5 or so game improvement. Maybe they’ll surprise me though.
By Buckeye
September 4, 2007 7:47 AM | Link to this
I feel your pain … not! Go Bucks!
By doc
September 4, 2007 6:29 AM | Link to this
well if there is any consolation sekou you can still say you were beaten by a number one and it wasnt a loss to central michigan. i gues the maize dodge that team or dp they and that is osmething to really worry about. it is great for college football though the maize dont feel that way. glad the hawks are going after it early.
By ray
September 4, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this
Sekou, thanks for dropping in, but as you can see, the crowd’s kinda thin. Of course, some people only show up when they think there’s enough people around to agitate. Otherwise they don’t show up, because it’s really attention they crave. And you KNOW who THAT is. Sorry about the Wolverines. Happens to the best, as you saw.
RIP, Eddie Griffin and Mr. Nelson.