Hawks

By Samuel

August 8, 2007 5:25 PM | Link to this

I say again college career counts for nothing when you get to the NBA

College Players of the Year for the past 20 years(Excluding Durant).

J Dawkins D Robinson D Manning D Ferry L Simmons L Johnson C Laettner C Chaney G Robinson J Smith M Camby T Duncan A Jamison E Brand K Martin S Battier J Williams TJ Ford J Nelson A Bogat JJ Reddick

I rest my case

By Mr. Gilley

August 8, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this

Wow..An intelligent conversation about Vick and dogfighting. I am glad everyone is being respectful and not being HATEFUL and JUDGEMENTAL and simply voicing opinions. When I first saw the poll about the USA Basketball, I was confused and thought it was a trick question cause Joe Johnson is already on the National Team but could not participate due to injury and they did not even choose the Hawks players who are on the same level as Andre Igudola and Al Jefferson, i.e. J-Smoove, J-Chill, M. Smith. So the list was made from an ignorant source. I heard discussion in the blog about Acie Law. I never really payed much attention to him in college so I can’t say much except “Men Lie, Women Lie, Numbers Don’t.” What are his numbers in college? Superb if you ask me. SOme say this is the NBA and you cannot say he will do good… Well what other tool do we have to measure his success. Surely not the summer league, because you cannot compare 4 years of schooling and a few weeks of summer league and measure the success or future success of a player. Case in Point he made the First Team..That means nothing except he had a great summer league despite his dismal (20%) shooting from beyond the arc. Well, SEKOU it is time for another blog topic, find something please. A feature on the 2 Joshes and Marvin Williams perhaps. MAKE IT HAPPEN SIR!! Please!!

By Theo

August 8, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

Does this blog even exist anymore?

By Samuel

August 8, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this

You know It

Sekou’s Bloggers 2007-08 will be in full effect so you GM’s out there get ready to challenge yo boy.

I gotta say that despite criticism from some, I love it. Last year we tweeked the game a little and some didn’t like it. I for one believe that it was more realistic. Real life GMs din’t get the luxary of adding and dropping players on a daily basis. Do your homework and draft well. We had 15 roster spots and only 10 played on a given night. Plenty of bench players for injuries and nights off.

Doc, we need you in this year. Ando, you too. I tried to get Cuz to enter but that didn’t happen. I think he will enter this year, hopefully. I’d love to have BK enter so if you’re out there: BK, i’m calling you out.

Guys, please no excuses this year. Just take it like a man!

By Anakin Joe

August 8, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Sam, are you hosting another round of Fantasy Ball for us this season? I was pretty bad in my inaugral campaign last season and would like another crack at it.

Sekou, is it time yet for a fresh blog topic? But can we avoid Bonds, Vick, referees and presidential campaigns?

By honest_abe

August 8, 2007 5:49 AM | Link to this

and what it is it you do again?? a teacher? god save america… :(

By Samuel

August 8, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this

Fire BK, Woody and Abe.

By Samuel

August 8, 2007 12:57 AM | Link to this

Abe,

Excuses Excuses. Just face it, you don’t know basketball. Sure it’s meaningless when you finish in last place. Everyone played by the same rules. You drafted a bunch of scrubbs and had to play the season out. Hell if a GM can’t build a team with 10 moves he might as well get out of the business. Heck even BK could win with that kind of freedom huh Clyde.

If you can’t run with the Big Dogs, stay on the porch. **It’s not about the size of the Dog in the fight, it’s about the size of the fight in the dog.

* Doc, does that saying disconnect me even more from my primortal self?* I hope not.

By jlewis

August 7, 2007 6:56 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

No disrespect, but how was Joe overlooked on a select team that USA Basketball chose only to use 2nd and 3rd year players? That is not something 6 year veterans and all-stars do.

By honest_abe

August 7, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

the “celler” dweller? oh ya that would be me :) ok let me put it out in the open, i was one of the worst gm’s of a meaningless fantasy league. (oh ya, one by that way that had a limit to how many roster moves you could make..which sam told me was to make the league more realistic. lol limiting a fantasy league which is nothing near realistic to begin with to 10 moves is plain dumb.) ouch sam that really hurt.

you tell people to watch their language after you insult them just because they agreed with me? maybe it’s you who should watch yours.

anywhoo, since people keep bringing it up… look at my first statement and my entire point was like mavid (most people with some intelligence could read into what i was inferring) that acie was a scorer rather than a distributor. which i clearly outlined. i never once said he was a pure shooter so i dont’ even know where that came from. but i’m not backing away from saying he can shoot. when you shoot close to %50 percent from 3 in college that tells me your shot ain’t broke. first line i wrote was acie was known for his scoring from the “outside” and his size. sam who eats green eggs and ham said that i’m a fool and that acie is only 6’3. it’s like i’m talking to a 3 year old. he doesn’t know how to read into what i’m saying. large for a point guard buddy!! i don’t care if people disagree with me, but it obviously hurt lil sam.

i was going to stay away from the whole dog fighting thing. but since a certain someone on this blog has a hidden agenda in everything he writes i couldn’t help myself.

all i see is excuses. a vick apologist. vick could’ve killed the pope and a certain someone would’ve found a way to justify it. probably by referring to the “W” statement which i found pretty dumb too.

bah, i had wrote a long essay hopefully explaining to sam what an oaf he is with his views regarding dog fighting and such. but i figured i wouldn’t be able to knock any sense into him so why even try. here’s a simple thing to understand though. those dog fighters are “accused” of killing losing dogs by hanging, shooting and electrocuting them. that to me is beyond demented, it’s inhumane. that isn’t anything like hunting. or horses that get laid to rest after they break a leg. like i said before sam always has an agenda and anyone not blind can see right through it. i’m disgusted by it.

By Ken Strickland

August 7, 2007 6:19 PM | Link to this

Come on GOOD NEWS, what’s so doggish about venturing into something rather personal for a change. Personally, I learned something very interesting about two individuals I respect. That would have been impossible had we stayed on the topic of basketball. Sometimes it’s good to go outside and breath some fresh air for a change.

By Good News...

August 7, 2007 5:30 PM | Link to this

Now even this blog has gone to the dogs. We so need some basketball to talk about. I would take any trade good or bad, just to argue about it.

By Ken Strickland

August 7, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

I am an avid dog lover, but I maintain the ability to appreciate and respect those who aren’t. A lot of so called dog lovers mistreat their animals, although they won’t admit to it. I agree with the sentiments on the war, but I won’t get into it because it has become so personal with me(pieces of my bother are still over there). Unfortunately, because of that draft dodging moron GBush, there are more and more people being put in my position every single day with every single senseless death over there.

DOC, NEWKID, please stop the love fest. You two are going to force me to revise my hero list. Black leaders have gotten the bulk of the credit for the success of the civil rights movement. But an individual isn’t a leader if he/she doesn’t have anyone to lead. There would have been no success without enlightened Whites and Jews walking and fighting side by side with us. I am particularly greatful to the Amish and Quakers, who orchestrated and funded a large portion of the underground railroad. Ultimately, as a result of their efforts, they were punished by post civil war confederates who brutally drove them from their lands here in the south. MY HAT’S OFF TO BOTH OF YOU, AND ANYONE THAT SHARES YOUR COMPASSION AND CIVILIZED APPROACH TOWARDS OTHERS, AND LIFE IN GENERAL.

By ray

August 7, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Never saw Law as a shooter, myself. Saw him as a scorer. Personally, I’ll take the scorer. A shooter is always good to have, but there’s a difference between the two, which comes out eventually. A shooter may need a certain set of situations/circumstances to be in place in order to be effective. A scorer will put the ball in the hoop despite those circumstances or lack thereof. A scorer finds a way. A scorer will definitely be more effective when he can pass the ball/create for others. And a scorer can always learn to be a better shooter.

But that’s my limited perspective. Of course, any combination of shooter/scorer is usually a heck of a talent.

By ray

August 7, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this

Samuel,

You just don’t like dogs. No seriously, we get it. That in no way makes you a bad person (as you already know). Hey, it can’t be for everybody, just like not everybody likes….. fishing.

Speaking of which, I notice you don’t list your favored activity (fishing) amongst your random “animal cruelty” thoughts. Why ever not, hmmmm? Yes, I AM being facetious (amusing myself)…but not intending any harm. Believe me, bro’. I have heard some seriously disturbing theories on fishing and how that’s torture, cruelty, and sadistic, etc. Guess what I did after hearing it? Went out with a couple of Zebco reels and my trusty cane pole. Had fish in the frier with hush puppies that night. I KNOW you can feel me on that one. I just thought it was downright hilarious that you never mentioned it (at least not that I’ve seen) in referrence to animal cruelty. Even if you did, I’m a fisherman ‘til I die, so I feel you on that one.

As for pitbulls, I have one who wants to be petted or played with more than anything else. He’s never bitten anyone or even tried. He gets along great with our mastiff and our jack russell terrier. He can be intolerant of other dogs if they don’t get along with our dogs. If he doesn’t like someone, he simply goes to a corner of the room and sits there. It’s all good. Fact is, you have to have the patience and willingness to accept responsibility with any domestic animal. Birds included. If not, don’t get anything other than fish in a fish tank.

By Samuel

August 7, 2007 3:23 PM | Link to this

Mavid,

Don’t mind me. I’m trying to get my posts in before school starts. My argument really wasn’t with you. It was with that perenial sellar dweller GM of Hilary 2008 who kept saying Law was a shooter, which he’s not.

You need to watch your language.

By ray

August 7, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this

All the talk about what are truly issues to be dealt with is all well and good. Everyone has an opinion. What is important to some is not to others. That’s part of what makes us different.

Of course, there are some strong opinions here. Always are.

In the end, it’s all talk. You don’t change the world the way you think. I figure you change a part of the world, your little section…by the way you conduct your life, and how you raise your children.

Fact is, while we’re discussing what the true problems are in this nation and what not, what are most of us really doing? Trying to get by the best way we can. And spouting our venomous little opinions at each other because we have the freedom to do so. Yeah, our nation is corrupt. Our government is corrupt. There never was an ideal situation. It didn’t exist. I don’t care what anybody says about how it was under whatever president. This nation was built on corruption, as were many others. People are corrupt, by and large. Everybody wants the best things in life for themselves. Everybody wants “world peace” and every other unrealistic utopia-like situation…as long as it doesn’t infringe on their personal right to have what they want. There’s always that conditional attachment.

And yeah, there should be changes. But who among us is going to change things on that level? You have to be in the mix: you have to have the money, influence, and means. None of us working stiffs have that. So all we get to do is talk big on a blog about what’s really important, while we target our personal pet peeve people, the guys we don’t like.

All the while, enjoying what there is to be had here. I’m not defending the “system”, as some would call it. I’m saying it’s still one of the best ones around, despite the corruption. If you don’t believe that, put down your steak dinner, walk out of your 2000+ square foot home, throw away the keys to your two vehicles, and take your a** on a boat ride to somewhere else and find out.

As an aside, I have to say I laugh at another black person that says something to me about returning to Africa. Yeah, take your a** over there if you want. The same thing is happening over there that happened back in the days of slavery. Africans are still killing and enslaving each other faster than it ever happened here in America. How the hell do you really think our race ever got to the US? Sold down the river…The only thing you’ll find in Africa is a machete and an AK. Both pointed at you. And pray you don’t ever find a diamond, ‘cause then you’re good as dead.

By Samuel

August 7, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

I’ve been really thinking about this Dog Fighting thing. Like I said, I’m no dog lover at all. Only owned two in my life. One, an ole white guy back in Tupelo gave me when I was about 9 or 10. I tried to like him, but I just couldn’t. Let’s just say he ran away and I didn’t go looking for him. I hope that doesn’t suggest some detachment here Doc.

The other one was when me and my wife decided we’d try it. We bought some kind of poodle or something. We had just graduated from college. We wanted to be all up-a-dy and all. About a week of cleaning up crap from the carpet was all it took. He too dissappeared. Darn.

You know the limited time I’ve been around pit bulls (about 2 hours total). I have noticed one thing. It appears to me that it is their Nature to fight. I even saw one my sister in law have(who had never been trained to fight), try to rip his own son’s throat for no aparent reason. Now, again i’m no scientist here but i’d say that’s kind of beastial.

What i’m gettin at is: if it’s their nature to fight then what’s wrong with lettin them go at it every once and a while. Is a Lion really a Lion if he can’t prove he’s king every once and a while. Are racing horses being mistreated by racing once a month. Ever thought about cruel being couped up in an apartment or house, looking at Heather or Jamahl all your life with an occassional walk around the block.

Also, I think all this execution and torcher is overblown. Just thrown in there for shock factor and sell stories. From what i’ve heard, most dog fights are not to the death. People who invest their money usually don’t throw it away in one night. They usually stop the fight before the dogs are seriously injured. Maybe one or two were put to death. Kinda like the Philly who broke a leg. Does PETA picket Churchhill downs?

Just a Thought

By mavid

August 7, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Sam, chill out bro. All I meant was that I see Law as much more of a scoring pg than a distributing one. Hopefully for us though, he can distribute adequately a la Chauncey Billups. No need to be a dick about it.

What in the world is up with that poll on the ajc hawks page. Completely misinformed. We know Sekou can’t be behind it. Joe is on the senior team already! No Marvin or J-Smoove included in the poll? They were snubbed if anyone from the Hawks.

By doc

August 7, 2007 1:14 PM | Link to this

samuel i didnt miss that point and stated it in the 11:14 post. funny vick probably made more than the gnp of many african nationalities is my guess. has he thrown it away or merely tucked it and run? stay tuned.

in the mean time there is always someone of relevance to talk about whoo appears to be a pretty solid guy and runs well too out of the backfield.

samuel, cant argue many of the points and only say right on point. as they say two wrongs dont make a right or follow the money. is what has transpired, no?

By doc

August 7, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

heh heh newkid, maybe it is your youthful spirit and monicker that had me fooled. my bad. cant say i have walked in your shoes but at times like to think i have walked beside. we are all kindrid some more obvious than others i guess.

samuel, your comment about blank is true now, it is business. however, if you honestly look at it by all acoounts blank wanted to be more for vick than a boss for whatever reason and that feeling of betrayal is hard for him is my suspicion even now. maybe it was to smell the jock as some a wont to do but he wanted a different relationship and is now angry or hurt that it didnt work that way.

By Samuel

August 7, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

Doc,

You forgot to mention that it’s going on right now. We got a whole world that seems to be disconnected from their primordial selves. The western world lead by the US has relegated a religious group(Muslims) and region to less than animal status. If we are so connected then we should immediately call for the trying of Bush and Company in World Court and you know it. I remember when Sadaam supposidly was hanged. I got sick and tierd of seeing it on TV. I’m not so sure I would if GBII got that same justice.

I just don’t see the outcry that it (the war)deserves. I wonder how many of those animal lovers marched and protested before this genocide started and I wonder what they are really doing to stop this madness.

Furthermore, who decides what animals get protection status. And please don’t give me that hunting for food line. When it’s time for the shopping malls and multi-million dollar homes to go up, who worries about the little birdies then?

By JTO

August 7, 2007 12:49 PM | Link to this

Aren’t the Celtics in need of some bodies in the pg position? Don’t we have a few extra bodies in that position?

I saw a report that even with the signing of scott pollard, the celts are still one player short of the minimum and only posess one true point guard. That one point guard happens to be a rather young and raw Rajon Rondo.

Wouldn’t both the Celts and the Hawks benefit from a trade that sends one of our veteran point guards for cash considerations or a future second round pick. The celts are in need of a some experience in the pg position considering they are no longer the young team that they were. Anthony Johnson would fit into their system quite well. Maybe they would be willing to take Speedy’s contract on?

Seems like it couldn’t hurt either team to look into it. What do you guys think?

By newkid

August 7, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Oh you’re too kind doc. I’m no youth. You see I too am one of those, like you, who hit the streets in the 60’s and 70’s. Been shot at (in both Alabama and Virginia) for my activities. Have friends who’ve been killed while seeking to bring about some of that social change. I don’t kid you AT ALL when I say it’s a sensitive subject for me. In many ways I think you and I are probably kindred spirits.

By doc

August 7, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

i guess i am senstive to the issue which is i feel a misappropriation of it in the true context of what i have seen others go through. i respect those that have truly moved the issue forward and admire them, say the julian bonds, andruw youngs and the like who i have met to let something go here for something it isnt. sensitive to the issue yes, in its true context, not in the form it has taken. it is an injustice to those that have carried the banner forward to allow the likes of vick to have the opportunity which he has apparantly gracelessly thrown away on his own through no misjustice to anyone than himself and to not signal it for what it really is.

maybe your own detachment suggests things are really much better and shows some of your admired youth i say with no pandering either as you are articulate and thoughtful. here is a mindful. just dont want fresh minds to not consider more than meets the eye. heh heh

By newkid

August 7, 2007 12:00 PM | Link to this

“…much as you have expressed that my take isnt appreciated here.” C’mon doc, you’re REALLY, REALLY reaching here, and I think you know it. I merely offered the article as interesting (at least to me) reading material, and it seems you’ve gone ape over it.

While I don’t post here often, I read the posts from time to time. And at the risk of sounding as if I’m pandering (and trust me I don’t pander), I have much respect for your insights. If this subject is too sensitive for you, just let it go man. No one’s judging (I hope), and if there are those who are, who cares. This is a blog. It’s a sensitive subject for me as well, and I don’t wish to force it upon anyone who might take offense. As I said at the very outset, I have neither the time or interest in offending.

By doc

August 7, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

newkid, i was so empathetic i was walking in the streets in atlanta during the civil rights movement. yes, i am that old and it wasnt a popular position for a white youth to take much as you have expressed that my take isnt appreciated here. this case isnt about civil rights though some have tried to make it so. fortunately someone smart got to the sclc before they had a big faux pas to become even more irrelevant. politically, how awkward would it be if he is found guilty to back out of that one.

it has been a way to bring up old wounds and it is living in the past instead of seeking a better future which has been acomplished duing the past 40 years and my concern. african american population os flourishing here more so than in any other city in the u.s. as the article points out. again, look to the case of underage sodomy as the one to bring up this issue of mistrust in the system, not vick. vick is a big name so some have jumped in to make it something it isnt, as you well put it, being opportune, so they can be important again.

if you think it objectionable to point out that the vick case relates not at all to adult individual civil rights but to rights of all beings protected by laws, like children have to be protected, so be it. yes, there are some that believe that childern can be treated abusivly ‘like dogs”, as well. again the article was well written and has merit from a sociological or historical perspective, hold onto the past if you desire.

By doc

August 7, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

samuel, as you say, lets be real. unfortunately, the comment about dogs is the exact comments i heard as i grew up about certain races or cultures of people made in the context of how they were different and any treatment of them can be rationalized and accepted without punishment or remorse. it happened here in the us with a certain race and it happened in germany with a culture or religious group. it happens with warring tribes in africa now as they seek to anihilate each other. i happen to think it is a distinct disconnect from primordial self whether it is dogs or any living body. guess that is metaphysical or very real and the lessons that have been taught by some of the greatest healers of all time walking the earth whether it be buddha, mohammed, sufi’s or christ in the unadulterated form.

your beliefs are powerful and heard.

By newkid

August 7, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

doc, perhaps the author could have selected a ‘more appropriate’ context; perhaps not. Apparently he thought this context was opportune, and I wouldn’t argue with that as I think it hardly matters to the major points of his thesis. But whether one selects the reaction to ‘the Vick thing’, the federal reaction (or lack thereof) to Katrina, or any number of contemporary social phenomena that might at least be partially ascribed to the author’s thesis, his treatment of the subject I think some will find indeed somewhat penetrating.

To argue that the author ostensibly excuses the utterly objectionable nature of the charges against Vick and his co-defendents is to completely (either intentionally or otherwise) miss the point - in my opinion - of his treatment of the subject. Of course animal cruelty is abominable and should be detested regardless of the practitioner. It’s nonsensical to argue otherwise. This author clearly does not go there.

By Samuel

August 7, 2007 10:31 AM | Link to this

Doc,

Interesting comments you made. It’s interesting how being busted for drugs is irrevelant. Not that Vick has but his associates have been. It’s as if Dog Fighting is a worse crime than drug running. I guess to some it is since the so-called government has been fighting this War on Drugs since Bush Sr. was over the CIA and crack cocaine mysteriously appeared in the black community. Bush Jr. is keeping the trend alive as the poppy crops have started back booming since we invaded afganistan. The Bush family is 0 for 2 in fighting phony wars.

Let’s see how long it takes to win this war on dogfighting. Probably not long.

Let’s Be Real

Arthur Blank is a business man and a pretty good one. He aint doing Vick No damn favors. 130 milion is a drop in the bucket compared to what he’s made off him. As the late great “Pook” Gamble used to say: I can add and subtract.

So yea, Vick came from the Hood and sometimes it’s hard to rid yourself from the negative Hood Ways. In the Hood dog fighting has been flourishing for some years now. It aint just started. Where have all the tree-huggers been these last 10-15 years?

This will be a wake up call to him but I believe he is a good man who does many good things. I believe he will bounce back and become a better man for it.

Finally, i’m may not be as scientific, philosophical, and mediphysical as yall and I do appreciate nature and all but a dog is a dog to me. He aint my Buddy(you feel me). They rank right up there with the cockroaches and the snakes. They’re nasty shi_ eaters. I don’t go out of my way to seek one out and harm him. But I don’t like being around them and I sure as hell don’t think anyone should go to jail for em.

Vicks drug issues worry me a hell of a lot more than dogfighting.

By doc

August 7, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

newkid, to use the argument in the context of vick i surely dont understand. he is not the victim of brutality but may have contributed to the misery of many helpless mammals. if you want use the argument for the kid that is in jail then i will buy it in a minute. that is truly an injustice where the law overrides common sense and how the law should have been interpreted.

simply vick blew it is how i see it just as many of us do in our lives, he happens to be on the big stage. when you blow it you can stay there and be a victim or try to solicit others into your denial, just the same you dont move on and grow until you drop it whether it is as an individual or a culture or a country. belief is powerful and it can hold you in a spot you dont want to be in or move beyond that realm. newkid, i have lived this in the streets and in my daily life so that is my perspective. i cant buy it when it is a professed gentleman making millions just as i couldnt buy into the sham of enron.

vick was a hero and an icon and as we know they are hard to let go of so rationalizations persist. i long was an apologist and even said give it time. i tried to argue it wasnt much diffferent from the issue with kerney on the falcons that slept while a rape occurred. unfortunately, this appeared to have occurred over his whole tenure with the falcons rather than a night, few months or even a year when he hapened to not be in attendance at his place in the country.

i am like samuel, in my heart i pray he wasnt involved because if he did there is a sickness there that has fooled many. some call that ability sociopathic tendencies. we get fooled by them all the time as they can pull all sorts of tricks for their own sick gain possibly like samuel says of manufacturing the fear in many about the weapons of mass destruction even though there was no evidence of it before or after and many in the know including americans who had been part of the united nations detail told us so. i put my money on powell in that one thinking he certainly wouldnt be fooled as i didnt trust the other guys. we all live and learn, go from milk to beer, scotch and wine then to water as we learn finally what is best for us.

peace.

By newkid

August 7, 2007 9:24 AM | Link to this

You’ve got an interesting take on the article doc. I didn’t read it as an article about Vick at all. Rather I read it as an attempt to describe ONE of a possible number of sociogenic factors that might explain why some reacted to the Vick matter in the way they did. I think the writer argues rather convincingly that ‘the Vick thing’ was merely a catalyst for a psycho-social ‘condition’ that widely exists just below the surface here in the US. But I admit I’m a bit of an eccentric. My idea of great fun is a glass of milk, a bowl of fig newtons, a challenging book, and a comfortable chair next to a window with a view.

By Samuel

August 7, 2007 8:35 AM | Link to this

Correction: I didn’t get caught with the weapon. Don’t own one. Well, unless you count my son’s Samurai sword collection and my fillet knives.

By Samuel

August 7, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this

As I look at that squad, I can see them possible grooming them for the next level(international games). I believe JJ could have made the squad but he probably declined. A good move IMO. We don’t need to risk injury in a meaningless contest. He knows what he can do.

On the other hand, Josh Smith is talented enough but his game is not necessarily international ball ready. The team they picked mostly consists of shooters,even the big men. Probably trying to replicate the competition in the games.

My Boys Monta Ellis and Al Jefferson are representing Mississippi well huh Cuz. What a class for those 2 years. Ellis, Jefferson, Outlaw and two or three more possibly. The only thing I hate is my boy Charlie White from Provine, didn’t pan out. I got caught with a weapon at JState and got kicked off the team. I believe he was the most talented of the three. Every bit as quick as Monte and a serious on ball defender. Reminded me of Lindsey Hunter.

That Michael Vick link was interesting. Nothing I didn’t know though.

In my heart, I want to believe Vick is innocent of the most serious charges like the executions and such. I believe he probably knew about the fighting but I don’t believe he should go to jail. If George Bush and his gang aren’t tried and convicted, no one should be. How many thousands of Muslims have they conspired to murder?

By reese

August 6, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

A team of young NBA players was selected to play against Team USA. Again, the hawks have been evaluated among their peers and again, not one single hawks player was selected.

Yes, its small and the players selected were chosen based on personal opinions. However, each slight against our young players is a tiny reminder that they are not thought of as difference makers or as highly as their peers.

These are the same young hawks that were not selected to the rookie/sophomore challenge at all star break. These are the same young hawks who were not on any all star ballots. These are the same young hawks who don’t get calls in close games. These are the same young hawks who never play on TV in front of a national audience.

The hawks should have been campaigning to have Josh Smith be a part of this team. It would have given the hawks more exposure, it would have given Josh Smith an opportunity to play against talented players and with other young players to gauge where he is at in his overall NBA skill level.

Is there a underlying reason why Joe Johnson is no longer part of the process. I’m sure that his calf is healed by now and he needs to be out there playing against better players as well. He needs to show more agressiveness in the rebounding, defending, assist, pushing the tempo/intensity and leading by example part of his game. Sitting at home and watching makes him as effective as me.

Sekou, I hope that you are not the person who created the list of players for the poll. Salim and Shelden. Come on. I see that the story came from the associated press. Even that small poll shows that people don’t understand who are the core players on this team.

First, Josh Smith’s name wasn’t even included in the Poll. 2nd, Al Horford (number 3 pick) and Acie Law (number 11 pick) were not included in the poll. Additionally, these 2 players had draft picks later than them included in the team to play against team USA. 3rd, why was Shelden William’s name in the poll. He can’t even improve the hawks, how would he help team USA. I like Salim and it would have been nice to have him play against team usa. However, I’m realistic and I know that he was never considered. Yet, he was considered in the Poll.

Folks, there is always NBA news out there and the true fans find it. When the AJC and Talk radio ignore basketball, I can always find news on other sites. I really don’t care much about the Mike Vick stuff, but the link by newkidd was interesting reading.

By doc

August 6, 2007 9:00 PM | Link to this

newkid, it is about as interesting as reading about pete rose and trying to make it into a sympathetic issue. he got caught and though he denied it for years the evidence was against him. some continued on his bandwagon until he finally confessed to his addiction and crime. public opinion had him pegged pretty quickly. he is not in the hall of fame for an issue that is not because of his skin.

vick is also not being tried because folks were after him. he was caught because of a drug bust at his place. unfortunately for vick those involvred also fell into a serious crime of blood everywhere and a humane society person on the scene. as in any crime found people in the know cant walk away and cover it up when the evidence was there by the handfull. i am not saying that vick did the bad deads of actually the killling or maiming the dogs. i cant even say that he was on the scene during a fight. what is clear is that it is hard for me to fathom how he could own a place like he did and one that appears to be bought by a guy with the intention to do what he did and therefore guilty of bankrolling the venture by having it on his land. so as with the rose issue i think he was involved in something horrid and because of that makes it hard to make into a racial issue unless one is hard pressed to do it.

let the courts decide, i think his ultimate burden of total responsibility will be small before claiming anything. just the same he funded it, probably had spome definite input in how things were run and unfortunately for him got caught because of some irrevelant issue; to play it otherwise it a simpletons quest.

vick and rose both got involved with the wrong kind of guys. i hope for vick’s sake he isnt in it too deep. i know if anyone else lied to their boss about similar events we wouldnt be on the job too long guilty or not especially when the employer has given a huge handout in the amount of 130 mil. by precedence since this behavior might have started before he even put on a practice jersey is the question will his money be subject to return to blank. remember the precedence with ricky williams is that he had to pay money back. i assure you lawyers on both sides are looking into this if he is found guilty.

only way to be offended is to think that one could be so inclined to believe one is to make this into a racial issue, just as the rose case wasnt one. it may be that both guys fell into bad company got their kicks from it on and ego level and ended up making very wrong decisions that have and could affect their livlihoods.

yes, what it did do is bring up the deep disdain for brutal behavior and trying to rationalize it for something else. again we need to move beyond this fragile foundation.

By MALONE

August 6, 2007 7:57 PM | Link to this

Is there any vibe out there as to when the Belkin-ASG mess may be “resolved?”

By gb

August 6, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this

does this blog exist any more?

By newkid

August 6, 2007 6:12 PM | Link to this

Doc, honestly I don’t have a point. Just sharing an article I thought was interesting. Didn’t mean to offend; sorry if I did.

By doc

August 6, 2007 5:54 PM | Link to this

newkid, not sure what your point was as you didnt comment. i have long not understood cruelty in any form, grew up in a segregated society i couldnt understand and really dont need to see the hype. cruelty is also in the use of dogs for ones pleasure while they chew up on each other. sadly as i grew up and i heard people speak of blacks as some recently have described the dogs that were put into battle as they try to rationalize the behavior, because they were owned or not human it was okay. it is just as sick as the most demonized racist i have ever heard; both sicken me.

i hope we can all see there is no separation between anything in this world, be it human, mammal, animal life or even vegetation. if you dont respect any one of these you dont respect any of it including yourself, dont fool yourself. it is time to stop the admonishment and living in the past on the victim mentaltity of any kind and appreciate the wholeness of oneself to the other. live it and things will improve; stop at nothing else.

By newkid

August 6, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

Sekou, don’t mean to use your blog to fan a flame that certainly can sustain itself without any additional help, but I found this article quite interesting and thought I’d share it with those who might wish to avail themselves of this perspective. Apologizes to those of you who who rather the matter be left to other blogs.

Thanks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=vicksatlanta

By Anakin Joe

August 6, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

MannyT I can’t access that site from my remote office (firewall). I’ll check it out later. Ultimately, the exception means that you can trade away salary without taking back as much. Our owners had NO intent to bring back comparable salary for Al. While they could have used the exception after the Al trade, they would have brought back salary. Not sure how long you’ve been keeping up with the ownership issues, but these guys are NOT looking to spend much money while the divorce is ongoing. We read many rumors last summer about how the Hawks were NOT interested in making a basketball related trade with Al, it was all about shedding salary.

At this point, we are right up against the soft salary cap and we need Belkin’s permission to go over that number. Utilization of the trade exception (which should be close to expiring), puts us over that soft cap line. Even though the luxury tax is another $10-12M away, the judge’s ruling last summer stated that we can’t go over the salary cap, which is the figure closer to around $57M.

Bottom line, this is very likely the team we will field in November. Our best hope is that we play well enough that we trade some expiring deals plus a younger guy for a solid piece at the trade deadline in February. For example, Childress, Lo Wright and AJ could bring in a contract worth around $8.8M. That matches a contract like Marcus Camby (as an example). But I wouldn’t bet on any significant movement between now and February (unless you consider dumping AJ for a rack of balls and an air pump significant).

By doc

August 6, 2007 5:27 PM | Link to this

thanks manny, i still am not sure of what this is about beyond a vague feel for it. only thing i am sure of is, i really dont understand it after trying to read it. waaay to legaleeze for me.

By MannyT

August 6, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

Anakin Joe why does Seattle’s trade exception become effective before ours if Harrington was traded last year and Allen was traded this year? It seems that ours would be effective before Seattle’s.

I thought we might have taken a hit in the trade exception for the AJ deal because draft picks have no present cash value when looking at trades.

I started reading here to try to understand it. I did not verify the source, but it does go into good detail.

By Anakin Joe

August 6, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

Doc, no, Johnson was traded straight up for a second round pick. As I understand it, a trade exception is like a placeholder that can be used to match up salaries in a trade. It seems to be available when trading vets for a pick. Seattle received a trade exception in the Ray Allen deal, because the value of the #5 pick didn’t equal Ray’s big salary. Once a team gets it they have 1 year to use it and it cannot be combined with another player’s salary. We received a trade exception when we sent Al to Indy for #11 (Acie Law). Basically it meant that the owners could trade Al’s $8M deal without having to take salary back. The fact that we were under the soft cap (in part due to the received trade exception) did allow us acquire AJ’s $2.5M salary, but I wouldn’t say that we directly traded a trade exception to Dallas for AJ.

While the Kurt Thomas trade helps Kerr keep the elite players of the Suns on the roster for at least 1 more season, you do have to wonder if Amare is ready to spend an entire game defending Duncan, Yao and Nene in the post.

By doc

August 6, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this

aj thanks for the explanation. didnt we have one of those exemptions at 7.5 mil that we foolishly gave away for the bargain of a johnson?

By Anakin Joe

August 6, 2007 11:57 AM | Link to this

MannyT, Phoenix supposedly is not trading the unprotected pick they got from us. Also, the trade exception they received from Seattle keeps them from paying luxury tax in 07-8 season. The trade you suggest would not benefit them financially until 08-09. In other words, Seattle’s offer of immediate luxury tas relief likely would have trumped anything offered by other teams for Thomas.

By Samuel

August 6, 2007 9:11 AM | Link to this

Yea, I am a big Jerry “The King” Lawler fan. Back when wrestling was pure and real. Not like all these punks today, all roided up.

By Willie Coyote

August 6, 2007 7:44 AM | Link to this

Jabroni?

Sorry you got your feelings hurt there Sam. I thought I was talking to an adult.

By ray

August 6, 2007 1:09 AM | Link to this

Doc,

“Doldrum” doesn’t even cover it, bro. And for the record, I don’t wish to see Yi falter. But I definitely don’t wish to see him put in a position where he cannot succeed or is stunted in his growth. As bad as you or anyone else wanted to see him come here (or STILL want to see him come here), that’s precisely what would have happened with the current coaching philosophy.

Of course, it may have taken a player like this to show that Woodson is not the best man for the job here in Hawksville. But how many players of good/great potential must pass through this hell before such a conclusion is reached.

There’s just not much to say, ol’ Buddy. And if this season is anywhere near as miserable as the last one…

By MannyT

August 5, 2007 7:45 PM | Link to this

Reese, I think we agree that it would have been interesting to see the Hawks make some moves during the off season. No matter how frustrated you get about today, management still must plan for the future—otherwise get out of the business, be it sports or anything else.

The Hawks’ future has more potential for excitement than the present because of the lack of personnel moves. If you are not loading up for the present and not loading up for the future, you are waiting in a bad place unless the team is already very good. My original statement simply posed a question as to why the Hawks were not more involved in a deal that seemed easier to do for a team with some cap space.

To answer your numbered items: 1) The Hawks have an unfilled roster position. They will likely put someone in it at some point. Kurt Thomas did not make the team shorter, because the roster slot is unfilled. He would make it about 81 inches taller. While you may hope for Yao to find joy in Atlanta and force a move, I doubt he’s coming here to play for the Hawks this season.

2) If you can make BK pull a trade, more power to you. The force ain’t that strong in this skywalker. Remember, my BK influence has more to do with fast food. Unless there is a late movement on Yi, I don’t see a major move coming soon. I will say, BK is tight with his cap space which is a good thing. That also means major moves are not likely unless the KG shift makes several teams eager to deal.

3) I never said, give Phoenix players. We have (or had) a trade exception (from Al Harrington Deal of 7.5 million) and cap space. I don’t know enough about trade exceptions to get into all the details, but AJ trade may have lowered the value of the exception. We should have had enough to be in the conversation to make that same deal that Seattle did.

4) I don not knock BK for the JJ deal. When your team is bad, you cannot get a free agent to come unless you grossly overpay. However, you can pull off a trade with the right assets—like cap room and draft picks (familiar theme comes back!)

BK did a nice job fleecing the Hawks when he got Gasol. Maybe he just needs to find Pete Babcock a job so he can be a major dealer again.

The options to change a pro team are limited—draft, free agency, & trades.

You can only draft the picks you own. All sides have to agree to trades within the league rules. You can only attract free agents that are willing to come here based on money, opportunity, and local intangibles. Remember, Gary Payton was traded here as a part of the Antoine Walker exit. I don’t think he ever saw the Hawks locker room. If Kurt Thomas was never to play another game in the NBA, it was worth investigating because trade exceptions do expire. Two future 1st round picks and a cut player are better than a stack of expired trade exceptions.

By doc

August 5, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

sad to note it and all may be aware except me but elton brand blew out his achilles on friday in workouts. clips now fall bad into the depths of the west. dont see anyone to make up the difference for them that he brings every night.

ray, if we cant talk about the hawks at least it is something to talk about basketball in general. if you are waiting for hawks news see you in october in pre-season practice as we are seriously in the doldrums of the nba season. i dont expect you to be that quiet and you might pipe up when international ball starts especially to rub my nose in something if yi falters.

By Samuel

August 5, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

CP,

I noticed a couple of things about his shot that are correctable. The main thing is that he tries to jump too high on his outside jumper and throws himself off balance. Players don’t realize that you don’t need to jump high on your jumper from outside (Ala Larry Ledgend). Now, i’m sure his coaches will work on his mechanics and he will become a better shooter. He probably will not ever be a great shooter but many great point guards are not great shooters. He just needs to shoot good enough to keep them honest, unlike Speedy who can’t shoot a lick.

Like I said, I believe that Law will be able to score because he is so fast. Tony Parker is not a great shooter, nor is TJ Ford, or Jason Kidd or Chris Paul but they are quick enough to get to the line and get most of their points.

By cp

August 5, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

Yea it really hasn’t been much to talk about lately seeing how we are doing absolutely nothing. I want to comment on the Acie Law discussion. Jay Bilas made some statements when we drafted Law so take it with a grain of salt because he said Sheldon would be great for us but said Josh Smith would be a bust. He said Acie Law shot is very inconsistent. He said he might struggle at times on the next level because his ball doesnt get much rotation when he shoots it. He improved his shooting percentage as he became older but he is not a good shooter. He was saying Law shot gets no rotation it’s kind of flat. Like I said Bilas said it so take it for what its worth.

By reese

August 5, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

MannyT, thats why its so frustrating being a hawks fan. The current team isn’t ready to make the playoffs. The future is bleak with no first round picks. The management team didn’t see fit to sign a free agent that could help the team/coach. The marquee draft pick is rated the most ready player, yet we have a multitude of players in his position. So, now theres talk of switching his position and that neutralizes his readiness and forces him to learn a new position in a new league for him.

To wrap up why I don’t like your trade scenario: 1)Kurt Thomas does not help the hawks and shortens the height of the team. 2)I want to make this years team better now. Collecting draft picks after a having 7 number 1 picks in the past 5 years as not proven BK knows how to best utilize them. 3)Phoenix did not take back any players in the deal. They received a 8 million dollar trade exemption. The hawks would have to give them players that they did not want. 4)BK has not shown that he can make a deal with Phoenix without giveing up too much. Too tell the truth, Billy has not made a trade with anyone where he hasn’t given up too much.

By honest_abe

August 5, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this

ic it doesn’t take much these days to make people proud

By Samuel

August 5, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

I just read an interesting article on NBA.com. Seems as though they serveyed 44 rookies at their photo shoot.

Very intersting.

They ranked Horford the most ready to contribute. A Law was second in best playmaker and didn’t finish in the top 15 in best shooter category. Isn’t that intersting.

http://www.nba.com/rookies/survey_0708.html

Anybody make it down to the park yesterday for the Falcons appreciation day. Out of 20,000 there must have been 10,000 #7 jerseys. Made me proud. Also, my boy Barry did his thang.

Great day for sports.

By ray

August 5, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this

Been away for a few, due to the staleness of Hawks talk. Now I see just how stale: I’m mostly seeing talk about Portland, Seattle, etc. And of course, Hawks management.

Damn.

By MannyT

August 5, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this

Reese,

If the focus is NOW, the Hawks could have been more active in getting an impact veteran big man like Magliore this summer. It did not happen.

If the focus is later, we have no 1st rounder for next year and a potential major team restructuring due to the number of expiring contracts and the potential free agency of the Joshes. To answer one of your questions, the current expiring contracts probably go to pay J. Smith’s next deal. That does not get you any better players on your roster now and cuts back on who you can get later. Trade exceptions do expire, so you cannot sit on them forever.

The future for Woody is now because he is at the end of his contract. If BK is going to help him beyond keeping his assistant coaches around I am happy to see him bring in a player that can contribute now.

If BK is not going to help him, I am ok to see assets (draft picks and more cap flexibility) come our way. The Hawks were one of a few teams with cap flexibility, so it makes sense that we could have been in that deal. I am not saying BK drafts great. I am saying a team with draft picks and cap space has many more options. How well the options are used is up to the GM and team management.

I do have to live partially in the future unless I am happy with the current success of the team. The Hawks will be better, but not a title contender. If you expect a title now, buy a fantasy league team. A better now for Phoenix is a spot in the 2008 NBA Finals. A better now for the Hawks is 8th seed in the 2008 playoffs.

Off to get my whopper—hold the mayo.

By reese

August 5, 2007 11:28 AM | Link to this

Nice Try Manny, However, Again MannyT, you fall into the trappings of a BK fan. You live in the future. Seattle has 5 first round draft picks in the next 3 years.

Atlanta’s future is here now. We had 7 first round draft picks in the last 5 drafts of the BK tenure. Our current imbalanced team is the culmination of BK’s drafts.

Why do you want to keep piling up tons of draft picks unless you willing to admit that what we have isn’t panning out. Then, if what we have isn’t panning out, why go the same route by living in the draft.

If you want expiring contracts, guess what. Salim, Lorenzen, AJ and Tlue contracts expire next year. That will free up over 10 million.

If you want to make trades, we have tons of forwards that BK always says people inquire about. The can be packaged to acquire a needed 6’11 or taller big man to balance out this team.

If you want free agents, there are some still out there.

Yes, I want to see Lorenzen leave this team as well. However, I want to get taller, not smaller. I want a draft pick that will be in lottery and Phoenix will not be in the lottery unless it is atlanta’s pick. I want free agent who will fill a need, not a roster spot.

By doc

August 5, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

yes manny, it would have made tooo much sene for this organization to do the trade instead of seattle. only reason not to is that they were not going to spend the money or more apt didnt have the cash to do it because of court proceedings.

the suns really threw away a lot and the jj deal has turned very sour for them. diaw at 8 mil for jj and cash. something might have happened to them when their gm left for toronto. steve kerr might have to dig deep to get it back. btw is our pick going to seatle or the suns, ny suspicion is they kept ours as it will be in the lottery next year.

By MannyT

August 4, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

reese hold the pickles, hold the lettuce, special deals do not upset us. That is the BK that loves me. The Hawks BK did not do the deal, so I am irrelevant, like most folks outside his inner circle.

In a business where it seems like the home team is a little tight with cash and prefers to build via the draft, I stand by what I said! The business of NBA basketball includes both winning games and making wise financial moves that allow you some cap flexibility. Check back with the Magic later and the Lakers & Heat now on that cap flex.

Call me whatever, but this made sense for the Hawks. I am not getting into Seattle’s reasons. I would think that Phoenix would rather populate the Eastern conference with extra draft picks than the Western conference.

I do not think Thomas is the next coming of anyone special, but he is at least as useful as Slava Medvedenko, Esteban Batista, & Lorenzen Wright were last year. If his is only ok as a mentor—the Hawks also seem to have a number of young players. [Look at what Phoenix gave up] (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2943588) for a conditional 2nd round pick and a trade exception. We have 14 players under contract and space for another. We could have gotten our 1st round pick back and another first rounder for a guy who has 1 year left on his deal at 8 Mil. Along with the expiring contracts of Lue, A Johnson, and in a restricted way, possibly both Joshes—the Hawks would have money options and draft picks. When that cash frees up, I might use it toward Josh Smith’s deal or a big time free agent.

Let me put it in Belkin terms:

Joe Johnson + Kurt Thomas a few years later = Boris Diaw, a conditional 2nd rounder, and a trade exception.

Go ahead, pick away.

By reese

August 4, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

MannyT, I don’t mean to pick on you, however, fans like you are what BK thrives on. Kurt Thomas is a 6’9” forward who doesn’t block shots, who doesn’t average double figure rebounds and who barely averages 10 points for his career. How many 6’9 players do you want.

Seattle was stupid for trading Ray Allen and not resigning Rashad Lewis. Durant looked normal to less than normal in the rookie league. He looked normal to above normal alongside Kobe and other USA team members.

It was a no brainer that Durant would have played better next to Ray Allen and Rashad Lewis.

It is a built in reason to give excuses of youth while playing alongside Jeff Green and not having Lewis and allen.

By doc

August 4, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

samuel, i like both squads. i just dont thnk you can play addition by subtraction on lewis and allen. that is 45 points a game the last three years they give up and though durant and green might get it back for them it just wont be next year. wilcox, thomas, sczerbiak, wilkins and swift havent distinguished themselves as either healthy or consistant performers in their nba careers over a season.

money is the reason we didnt get into the firesale. sad but true the seattle team basically bought players and draft picks to the tune of 8 mil plus the trade bonus card stuff whatever it is how i understood it though it took a bit of time to get there. sekou could possibly discuss the new economics of the nba. it wasnt just paying thomas’ salary but forking over 8 mil and getting back the rest.

By MannyT

August 4, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Speaking of Kurt Thomas…how come the Hawks didn’t get in on that fire sale. We may have been able to get our draft pick back just by taking on his salary. He would be a tolerable big body to have if we got as much as Seattle did in that trade.

By Samuel

August 4, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Seattle: PG- Watson, Ridnour SG-Delonte West, Wally Szcerbiak, Durant SF- Durant, Damien Wilkins, Jeff Green PF- Kurt Thomas, N. Collison C- C Wilcox, Robert Swift

That’s really not that young. The wild cards are Swift and Green. Green really impressed me in the summer leagues. I didn’t know he could score like that. If he comes on and allows Durant to move to SG, lookout. Swift is very talented. If he can stay healthy. I don’t know.

Aint gone lie. I never liked PJ as a head coach. This may be his last shot. NAAAAAHHH!! Somebody will recycling him like Cotton Fitzsimmons. (Doc, you better tell the newbees who Cotton is). I aint callin no names.

Portland is a bit young but Extreemly talented, especially on the front line. Oden, Aldridge, C Frye, Przybilla is a seriously large front line. Add a ROY in ROY, a Travis Outlaw who is ready for a breakout season a Veteran like Steve Blake and J. Jack running things, and the best young coach in the game. I believe they will be no pushovers.

I’m not sure about Charlotte. They seem to be snakebitten like us with injuries. They can’t afford to lose Okafor for any length of time.If they do, they’ll be hanging around with the Catfish like us(if you know what I mean).

By doc

August 4, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

samuel; additionally, there is no way your three contingencies can be met under present management and you know it. the team will not run full out as this coach believes in an offense that keeps scores down by using up 18 seconds before activating the offense. there will be NO addition of big people. maybe the gods will let them be injury fee but of the three the only two that can be controlled the broken atlanta spirit have shown no propensity to change. maybe we can push beyond the 6ers; some will think i am negative rather than realsitic.

By doc

August 4, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this

samuel, seattle and portland are too young as they got younger. you knicks got randolph and though aldridge and oden may be huge in the future it wont be next year. even lew alcindor wouldnt have made the splash at 19 or 20 that he did in his second year at 23 or 24 with a title. seattle, gave up a lot in the guys that went to boston and orlando, the latter two mean boston and orlando easily surpass us. chrlotte has beaten us like a drum and they held onto a great multi-dimensional guy and picked up richardson. they had injuries to equal ours so they will come up stronger as they did something to their roster. remember, their 7 footer and “obiwan kinobee” didnt play last year.

yes, if the stars allign and woody shows much more coaching to win games with his deft moves and multiple offensive sets then we get better. philly may be below us but they too accelerated ahead of us down the stretch and actually played better without a i. otherwise we scrape bottom and may look at a worse record than last year.

personally, i see 37 wins if the stars allign. the first ten games with 6 at home against playoff teams fronm last year test this team right away. if they win 4 they show promise; otherwise we wait for the last third of the year to see any promise for the future including new gm and coach.

By Samuel

August 4, 2007 1:32 PM | Link to this

Doc,

I actually like Portland and Seattle. Portland will be seriously hard to deal with inside and they have a very deep and balanced roster. I think they will actually pass the Clippers, with the injury to Brand.

I also like Seattle’s moves this off season.

The Hawks have a chance to move out of the bottom tier if they: 1) stay healthy 2) press, deny the ball, and run the entire season. 3) make some type of move to get help on post defense.

If all these things come together they could move ahead of teams like: Philly, Minnesota, the Clippers, Seattle, Charlotte and even Orlando.

If either of these things fail to materialize, we could be looking at another 26-30 win season.

By jambazy

August 4, 2007 12:52 PM | Link to this

I take it Josh Smith has not been invited to the USA Team basketball scrimmage………….anybody heard anything

By doc

August 4, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

travis, you are right on target and that is what the realistic folks are seeing and writing. they are considered naysayers and seen as folks that have to eat crow if the hawks come through this year. yes, you too might fall into that category if you keep throwing your acurate concerns out there instead of being the eternal optimist and falling in line with the spin of the hawks pr department.

there are teams that will end up with a worse record than the hawks and they are all in the west, with seattle, portland and now minnesota being candidates to have worse records. as far as the east unless josh smith becomes a beast and the guy i want to call j smash then the hawks will flounder and look up at all the rest. the movement of personnel has been that good to the east. josh will need to show superstar abilities this year if this team is to go anywhere beyond the bottom of the pack.

By travis

August 4, 2007 9:00 AM | Link to this

would y’all please look at the hawks schedule and see how they match up, on paper, with their opponents instead of splitting hairs on if acie is a scorer or can score or will be scoring. we have some serious issues to worry about. I have the hawks 4-11 in the month of november and about 13-31 by all star break and 0-2 in their division the 1st month. december doesnt look any better.

By Samuel

August 4, 2007 8:26 AM | Link to this

Yea,

Yea,I am done with it.I usually don’t bother arguing with internet nerds (posing as experts) who just started watching the sports 5 or 6 years ago anyways. I can tell you have never played or been around any serious ball in your life Son. You or your jabronie partners Mavid and Willie Coyote.

By honest_abe

August 4, 2007 7:59 AM | Link to this

on to better subjects!

we can talk about how much of a jerk barry bonds is and THAT is the reason nobody wants him to break the record. not for any other reasons some like infer.

or maybe we can talk about how ai’s move to denver was going to make denver nba champs. heh

we can always talk bout dem knicks.

or we can go beat an ol dead horse and discuss how nash really isn’t an mvp. HA! doh! i forgot the person’s reasons as to why, but maybe he can give me a refresher.

By honest_abe

August 4, 2007 7:54 AM | Link to this

willie’s right. this has gone a lil too long. but in my defense you look at what i originally wrote and it was that acie was known for his scoring from the outside and that kenny was known for his ability to get inside the lane and distribute. that’s how this whole stupid argument started. then sam misread what i wrote (not a suprise there) and so i clarified by saying law’s best attributes were his size and his stroke. somehow the argument went from being about a guy who can score from range and stretch defenses to now being about a pure shooter. i have never said that law is the 2nd coming of mark price. he’s a 70% ft shooter. so obviously he’s not a pure shooter. but he’s got some range on that shot and so i’m not backing down the kid can shoot. if the biggest thing you got going for you is a moniker “captain clutch” and that is because you hit some big time 3’s against some of your biggest rivals, it tells me you have the balls and ability to hit it from deep not only during the 1st quarter but in crunchtime as well.

ok lets be done with it. i’m right, you’re wrong. move on. thank you.

By Willie Coyote

August 4, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this

As evidenced by the amusing Abe/Samuel battle that in full swing, maybe it’s time for a new topic.

BTW, it kind of sounds like you’re reaching a little there Samuel. Abe is sticking to his guns and you are fishing for stats from a few exhibition games. You sound a little defensive there and the anger & insults don’t help either. I’ll agree that Acie doesn’t strike me as a pure shooter but to say he can’t shoot when that’s exactly what he did for four years in college is a little off.

By Samuel

August 3, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this

Abe,

Stop bring up college stats. That’s over and done with. This is the NBA. A whole nother ballgame. I’m not saying Law won’t score, i’m saying he’s not a shooter.

His Rocky Mtn Review Stats:

He lead the Rocky Mtn Review in assists per game.

He led the Hawks in FTA and FT made.

He shot 44% from the field and 20% from 3 pt range.

Like I said, he’s fast and quick enough to score by getting to the basket, running the break and facilitating. He shoots OK, but it’s not his strong point. Trust Me.

Just watch as the season goes on and remember what I told you. You might learn a thing or two about this game.

By honest_abe

August 3, 2007 6:44 PM | Link to this

46% from 3. fine sam ok i give, you’re right. the guy cant’ shoot and has absolutely no range. i mean cmon 46%? thats horrific. i mean to be labeled as a shooter and someone with range i guess you need to start hitting those treys at about a 80% clip eh?

By travis

August 3, 2007 6:24 PM | Link to this

the hawks have a very, very, nice home schedule. we will see ALL of the stars. the only lousey games that lack STARS will be memphis, philly, minnesota, but all of the others will be hyped!! I have them being 13wins and 31 losses by the all star break. mind you, i am a season ticket holder and i am being very open minded, but i wish the hawks had gotten someone in free agency

By travis

August 3, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

guys, i have read the blogs, looked at teams acquisitions…i don’t have the hawks any better than 11th in the east. how are we going to break this playoff slump? i still have 1.det 2.clev 3.chi 4.miami 5.toronto 6.nj 7.boston 8.orlando 9.washington 10.ny 11.charlotte 12.hawks

i am a season ticket holder but i am concerned. DOES ANYONE SEE ANYTHING DIFF?

By travis

August 3, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

guys, i have read the blogs, looked at teams acquisitions…i don’t have the hawks any better than 11th in the east. how are we going to break this playoff slump? i still have 1.det 2.clev 3.chi 4.miami 5.toronto 6.nj 7.boston 8.orlando 9.washington 10.ny 11.charlotte 12.hawks

i am a season ticket holder but i am concerned. DOES ANYONE SEE ANYTHING DIFF?

By reese

August 3, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this

Flash, Dawkins was a career 11.1 pts and 5.5 assist. Mediocre numbers at best. I was not judging Acie by my statement, I watched him play a couple of summer league games and his style of play reminded me of Johnny Dawkins.

I can’t say that I ever read the book you mention. However, I do listen to music. I enjoy a mixture of the piano, strings, horns, drums and a smooth voice to round it out. Now, if the hawks were music, we would have 7 horns and a piano. All though, it might be able to belt out a tune, I would be missing the other instruments and voice that I so fondly love. Again, the key is to strive for balance.

As far as chills go, I don’t remember mentioning his name in awhile. But, like others, I would be willing to use him in a trade to get a missing piece. However, there are still some free agents out there that I think we could sign that would allow us to be competitive.

Guards: Steve Francis or Eddie Jones. Centers: Kelvin Kato, Earl Barron or Mutombo

Flash, again, my points were that those centers are 6’11 or taller, compliment the other teammates, allow other 6’9 and taller players who are power forwards to play their natural small forward/ power forward position. Therefore, reducing the need for players like shelden, horford or others playing center. It also rebuffs the notion that true big players are not available. Again, the hawks need balance. I don’t know how many times to say it or different analogies to provide to relay the hawks deficiency.

Was I against the rebuilding, Yes. Could I live with rebuilding. Yes, if the hawks did it in a manner where they were balancing out the team with height, intensity and skills. Getting a bunch of players with the same size and lack of skills will not win my praise.

By Samuel

August 3, 2007 5:38 PM | Link to this

Mavid,

You and Abe are absically in the same category, clueless. Law was a scorer in college not a shooter. Many players can score in college cause they are much quicker and faster than everybody else. Anyone can look at his mechanics and tell he’s not a pure shooter. We’ll, I take that back.

Abe,

What fellow bloggers? You and Mavid. You already proved you know zilch about basketball. You can watch all day long but if you don’t know what you’re looking at. Well. Keep it up though. You’ll be alright.

By Ron

August 3, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this

It would be nice if the hawks could bring a center to help the defense Mr. knight i wornder about his thanking sometime

By mavid

August 3, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

“The local doctors couldn’t find the source of Speedy’s kneee problems until 6 weeks ago? WTF? Who are we sending our players to for exams, Dollar Store Docs? I’m encouraged that the issue has been worked, but I too share the concern about him being truly healthy over a long period of time. But it is good to know that he wasn’t just dogging it last season and that there was a legit structural issue with his knee. Maybe the combination of the strength training with the surgery will allow him to make a full recovery. If nothing else, we need this guy to improve his trade value by early February.”

My thoughts exactly AJ. Our doctors need to get fired. (Where you at Clyde??)

And Sam, I gotta go with Abe on this one. Law is a shooter-slasher (dude actually can get to the bucket pretty well), not a distributor as yet. Hopefully tho, he can distribute adequately for us.

Anyone who watched Law last year tho, shouldn’t be worried. That kid can flat-out play.

By honest_abe

August 3, 2007 4:32 PM | Link to this

so according to sams flawed reasoning, acie has a couple of bad shooting game in summer leagues and he can’t shoot? how the hell am i clueless? I WATCHED THE GUY IN COLLEGE! he’s actually been labeled by quite a few of his critics as a shooter and not much more. he spent the majority of time in summer leagues trying to run the squad. we all (at least those of us that actually watch basketball) know he can shoot, it’s a matter of can he be an effective distributor. ask any of our fellow bloggers or better yet why not do a little research. you’re dead wrong on this and i know it so time to move on.

By The Flash

August 3, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this

reese I could be misstaken, but I seem to recall seeing a post on a duke basketball web page saying that Dawkins actually averaged 16 ppg in the bigs.

By The Flash

August 3, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Interesting Haps in Hawksville September 21-23, Nike is running a smashing coaches clinic at the gym at Olgethorpe University for you junkies who actually might want to learn the game. The best thing, all three days, $110 The presentors include, among others, Hibie Brown, Boehim, Calhoun, Tubby, Cremons, Seth Greenberg, and a few other lesser names. Each guy presnets for an hour and a quarter session. There are players on court.

I ran into a former Georgia Tech captain who is now an assistant at JMU(I don’t recall the guy’s name) on a plane and he turned me onto these. Said he went to one and it was terrific. The website is www.NikeChampionshipBasketballClinicsatBasketballcoach.com.

Don’t let me here that I never done nothing for you guys. Hey, scheduling permitting, I might even see youz there.

By jhan

August 3, 2007 1:12 PM | Link to this

Tough call on Chills. I personally like the guys game alot (except the shot). But, if I can use him to get a legit big man, I have to make that trade. In my opinion, he is one more foot injury away from being out of the league or worthless in a trade scenario. Player’s with bad feet are not helpful to any team. If we can get good value in a trade right now, I say pull the trigger.

By The Flash

August 3, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

Manny T good get and I see your perspective on fungibility. However, like the guys you mentioned, I would not move Chill. Terrific catch on others who fit that mold and have done it incredibly well.

Doc of course. Who besides the donna in LA would not want to play with Shaq? Like you, I think the guy a complete winner in every way imaginable.

By MannyT

August 3, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

Flash

The book is The Breaks of the Game and I think the guy is Bobby Gross. Good teams tend to have that “glue guy” that keeps things together on the court, but it rarely reflects in the stats. Probably the modern day versions are Tayshaun Prince, Bruce Bowen, Udonis Haslem on the teams that have won recent championships. Old school versions would be Bobby Jones (Sixers) and Dennis Johnson (Celtics).

Chills is probably our glue guy—but if you don’t win, it’s almost like a coach. The next coach may bring in his own glue guy. I hate to say that because I like Chills game more than Woody’s. Yet they are possibly linked as close as BK & Woody as their contracts can expire about the same time.

By doc

August 3, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

samuel, i think we really missed the boat. yi’s game in time is beyond what we have now including josh smith. i think if we had gotten the coach that went to memphis, yi and crit this would have been a championship contender in three years. we will plod on under present conditions unless there is some signiifcant growth this summer in all the players or management can begin to spend some money for players to really add serious depth and size. smurfs trying to play half court basketball is tough.

By Samuel

August 3, 2007 8:05 AM | Link to this

Abe,

You obviously didn’t see the reviews on Law’s workout with the Hawks and you obviously didn’t see any summer league games so I will end my argument right here. You’re clueless!!

Doc,

Did you happen to catch Yi last night on NBA TV? It was the first time that I actually saw him play and I was impressed. I know it was against the DLeague allstars but he showed me a lot. I can see why all the fuss over this guy. He is basically a Dirk Clone. He, like Dirk, needs to get tougher on defense but he will be a serious scorer in the league.

Flash,

Which Oneil? Jermaine I hope.

By The Flash

August 3, 2007 1:55 AM | Link to this

anakin joe you are smokin. that line about the wtf still has me laughing. reese you did real good, lots of guys 6’11”, but where were the centers besides Shaq?

Samuel’s guy Raheed, when his head is right (Cool Hand Luke) I think is the best, whether you call him a center or whatever. The rest really don’t impress, including O’Neal who I think is a difficult team mate at this point, so whatever his value on the court as an individual, I wouldn’t want him.

This team really needs one more player with a body who can score the ball both inside and out and understands and appreciates the game of basketball. One more go to guy. It might be done by committee if Law, Smoov, and Marvin can do it.

The reason that they ain’t movin Chill, reese, is before he makes this team play more like a team that gets it on offense than anyone else on the team. Some people hear music and understand viserally the possibilities of how it will build and resolve. I believe that I myself and a few others see a game and understand the same things. Don’t ask us how, we do. It changes slightly from moment to moment, but we can see, feel, understand, predict it.

Chill does that and has the athleticism and confidence that fits with the flow and effect positive outcomes. You trade a guy with that gift coupled with his athletic abilities, temperment, and competative nature and you are crazy. Great teams have those players.

There is a book by the now late David Halbestram about the great Portland team. Halbestram about what Doctor Ramsey had to say and communicated it unbelievably. Only problem is that he made no freakin chapters. Drove me nuts, almost impossible to read. Anyway, Dr. R thought that the second most important player on that team next to Walton was their small forward. I blanking again on his name. But the book captures incredibly well why. I think Chill is that guy.

By honest_abe

August 2, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

want a good comparison to kenny. mike conley jr. undersized, super quick, a great facilitator and only downsize is the range on his shot. sound like someone you know? say it with me now sam! k e n n y a n d e r s o n!

By honest_abe

August 2, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

lol. sorry sam. but i’m calling you out because you have no clue as to what the hell your typing.. acie law was not known in college basketball as a distributor. he was a & m’s leading scorer. everybody thought he was clutch. he could shoot then sam. and i’m hoping nothing something so crazy as to all of sudden not be able to shoot develop in the past few months. the guy killed it from 3 last year. the 3 point line is “outside” ain’t it even if it is the college 3 point line?

as for being 6’3 that is quite large for a point guard. i’m starting to see you are dumber than i had originally ever thought. like as if when i mentioned size that i was referring to law’s behomoth, 8 feet guargantuam frame. heh

so as you can see in a short, roundabout, sweet summary, law is known for his size and his shot. comprende amigo? sam you really do say some of the most absurd, asinine comments (stupid crap about bonds and ai.. it goes something like blah, blah, blah) so i guess i’m kind of guilty for always trying to point just how ridiculous they are. but due to the blatant stupidity of those comments, i’m starting to think it just might not be that necessary

By Samuel

August 2, 2007 9:26 PM | Link to this

No. I’m still not following you. Law’s best attributes are not his size at 6’3” 195 nor his stroke. He struggles big time with his outside shot. Law will be able to score because of his speed and quickness but his main asset will be his ability to distribute, much like Kenny Anderson.

In the future, please don’t call me out unless you know a little more about what you’re talking about.PLEASE

By honest_abe

August 2, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this

as for being a bust. he was the #2 overall pick and he had 7 nice seasons. maybe bust was too strong of a word. he was solid early and tapered off pretty quickly. my main point was that his game is not similar to laws. whatsoever! dude.

By honest_abe

August 2, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this

duuuuuuuuuuuude…. read more carefully. i said nothing about their games are similar. one, like you said was a lightning quick pg, who’s greatest asset was his ability to distribute. while law’s best attribute is his size and stroke. are you following me so far? if not i guess there’s not much i can do to clarify. dude.

By Samuel

August 2, 2007 8:41 PM | Link to this

Abe,

WTF you talking about dude. Do you even know who Kenny Anderson is. He was not just a scorer from the outside . He is the alltime assist leader at New Jersey and for a period of time, one of the premier guards in the NBA, including an Allstar Game starter in ‘94. When is the last time the Hawks had an allstar game starter.

Who cares about his little stupid as_ 39 game stint with the Hawks.

Dude, had you even seen a basketball game in ‘91? Tell the truth? If Law comes close to the career Kenny Anderson had, any true basketball man and Hawks fan would take it.

By honest_abe

August 2, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

howdy doo aj.. surry count? nah, not interested in dogs that fight or fighting dogs. anyways its good to be back.

flash: you really don’t think it’s a possibility that chillz will be moved? why so? if marvin has a breakout year like pundits have been predicting then you have to resign both him and jsmith to extensions. money is already pretty scarce for this broke franchise. i think the hawks try to get something in return rather than see him walk for nothing.

terrell: i noticed that slip up on gomes right after i wrote it.

guys comparing law to kenny anderson and johnny dawkins. yikes! if so we can add him to another in a long history of hawk busts. kenny anderson? what the. other than the fact they are both left handed what else about their games are similar? one is primarily a scorer from the outside the other is a quick, slasher and a distributor. nothing about their games are similar.

doc: i’m with you. definitely not giddy about the upcoming season. but in this case i think the hawks should see some major improvement. it’s basically the 3rd year that their core players have been together if you include marvin in that group. the youngest roster in the league excuse doesn’t float this year. they’ve had ample time to grow and learn what it takes to win in the nba. at least we only have one more year of watching woody look clueless on the sideline.

can horford play center? i think so, but once again it comes back to coaching. if you are going to start a badly undersized lineup of speedy, joe, marvin, josh, and horford you need a philosophy similar to golden state in that you are going to run other teams out of the gym. but of course woody’s coaching philosphy changes like the wind. oops. what philosophy right? horford is best suited to play the 4, but so is zaza. we have a bunch of 4’s and 3’s. does that mean this team is doomed? sort of or at least until the hawks get a coach who knows how to utilize his talent.

By tyger

August 2, 2007 4:46 PM | Link to this

True Facts

If the season started today, neither Speedy nor T.Lue would be ready to go. Sound familiar???

Last summer, Speedy didnt work out, complained about his knees, yet was rewarded the starting PG job, despite superior play by Cedric Bozeman.

Now, one month after another knee operation, he is yet to return to full speed. If he isnt 90% by Oct 1, then we need to consider declaring him medically disabled.

If he had an ACL repair, I would give him more time, but a scope shouldnt take that long, especially in a pro rehab program. They get worked on all day and night.

And Lue isnt much better, I like him, but if it isnt his knees, its his hamstring; and truth be told - he’s 30 with consecutive leg injuries.

Reality is, we have Law, AJ and Salim ready to go right now. And thats probably who we should count on.

Small guys are worthless w/o their speed and quickness. And both will enter the season weakened and/or out of shape.

Start AJ, bring Law or Salim off the bench. Declare Speedy disabled and trade Lue.

By reese

August 2, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately, speedy has a lot to prove. Jacque Vaughn has already provent that a hawks backup guard can be inserted into the same roll that speedy had and the spurs can still win a championship.

We all know that Jacque Vaughn was not a difference maker when he played for the hawks.

Therefore, Speedy has to prove that he is a difference maker or else he is just another Jacque Vaughn.

Injuries or not, difference makers still get it done.

By reese

August 2, 2007 4:10 PM | Link to this

Terrell, your missing all the points entirely. Good teams allow their players to play their natural position. Whereas the hawks, draft players who must play out of position and we term it that they must be flexible.

Also, several teams have been able to acquire talented 6’11 inch or taller players, where as the hawks have not.

Horford played power forward in college and had a 6’11 center next him. Horford played the majority of his college games against teams whose centers were 6’7 to 6’9”. The hawks would get the best use out of him by having him play alongside a player who is 6’11 or taller.

The desire to see Marvin Williams and Josh Smith on the floor at the same time did not produce good defense last year and there is not reason to believe that it is going to improve this year by having a line up of Marvin, Josh smith and al horford.

By doc

August 2, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

a j, yeah bro it was. i love the fact that the braves still try to do it right thought they arent the big spenders anymore. i really cant expect bk to do much since he has such a short financial leash. i really cant complain too much since financially this team is run like the pittsburgh pirates or the royals. it is fun to see big john still try to do his stuff even though the braves are in the middle of the pack as spenders. he couldnt do what he has if he had to try it on the royals budget.

it will be interesting if the hawks begin to get into he middle of the pack as spenders, until they do we are going to remain as the bottom five and the suns will finally get their delayed payoff next year. i think that is why they had a fire sale on draft picks; they think the hawks are going to give them a player next year in the top five.

as a quick observation only indiana, the raptors and miami along with our hawks havent made significant adjustments in the off season, please dont include draft picks as a major accomplishment. i dont know if we can truly make a strong statement of “how much better we will be because our wounded will be back in action”. i am still going to monitor the chills and speedy situations closely as either one of those could blow up.

funny, i used to get the pollyanna tag around here. i must say i have passed the torch on until the players decide to totally forget what is around them including a coach who finally has come to the conclusion that calling the young guys young is detrimental to the team and the players. it only serves to protect his own back with ready made excuses. reality, auerbach couldnt win with what we have had.

not giddy about our hawks as yet, wait to see what they have to offer over the first ten games.

By Anakin Joe

August 2, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this

MannyT, he gets some credibility back from me, that’s for sure. Doc, was that you over on the Braves blog last night getting giddy?

By MannyT

August 2, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this

So does Speedy get some credibility back now that it is clear that he did have a physical problem? I’m not saying the guy is great—just that we need to see what he can do after having the medical work done. Hopefully, he will be more physically able to do his thing.

If we start the season with the players currently on the roster, we will need him to apply a lot of on ball pressure to help offset the Hawks’ lack of size in the paint.

By terrell

August 2, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this

Comment at 11:11 was about the comparison of Law to Dawkins. I think Acie will be a much better pro. Johnny did’nt do jack in the NBA.

By terrell

August 2, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this

Alonzo Mourning is’nt 6’11. He might be listed as 6’11 but he is’nt. 6’10 at best. If he’s on your list, Horford should be there for the Hawks.

By terrell

August 2, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

It’s just you REESE.

By doc

August 2, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

aj, just like your employer, docs forget to listen. the best docs find if they listen to their patients closely instead of relying on films they can find the source. there are patients that for some reason will try to throw the docs off, again that comes out if one listens closely and takes the time to ask the question if that is really the problem. usually the next look gives them away and may come from the subconcious. if it is like the deer in the headlight then they have let you know it isnt; if it is a true quizzical look then you listen closer and go with the gut.

like flash says the docs need to look at the cause and it is structural and rehab from the waist down or the feet up to the waist, even neck and shoulders are suspect. the feet can be thrown off by what is happening as far up as the waist or even the neck because it all translates down.

the next time you have a problem like this you have a good doc if he looks high and low if you have a knee injury, if he ONLY looks at the knee find another until you get the correct response. it is true for every doc and problem whether it be a gi, heart or even an eye issue. flash, i am sure that in Feldenkreis that is taught along with he deeper components on down or up to the spiritual level.

now, when does bernie come straight about life with the hawks instead of shilling? false expectations and lies only bring their own appropriate response.

By Anakin Joe

August 2, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

The local doctors couldn’t find the source of Speedy’s kneee problems until 6 weeks ago? WTF? Who are we sending our players to for exams, Dollar Store Docs? I’m encouraged that the issue has been worked, but I too share the concern about him being truly healthy over a long period of time. But it is good to know that he wasn’t just dogging it last season and that there was a legit structural issue with his knee. Maybe the combination of the strength training with the surgery will allow him to make a full recovery. If nothing else, we need this guy to improve his trade value by early February.

By Samuel

August 2, 2007 9:04 AM | Link to this

Why are we just concerned with the East. We play the west too and the losses count the same.

I really don’t believe Speedy will ever recover 100%. I’m no doctor but I have been watching the league for a while and a guard who keeps having operations on his knees, just aint good.

Now im more convinced we should start Law and let Speedy assume his career role as a backup.

Reese,

I was thinking more Kenny Anderson. I sure hope not Dawkins, he never panned out in the bigs.

By reese

August 1, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this

Flash, below are the centers for each team in the east that are 6’11 or taller. I’ve listed the teams in the order that I think are the best. I based my criteria on the center being 6’11 or taller and how well they accomplish what their team needs out of a big man. In other words, how well they compliment the players around them in meeting a team need.

My point is that BK’s assertion that true big men are not out there is ridiculous. Players like Dwight Howard, Chris Bosh, Andrea Bargnani, Yi Ji lian and Kevin Garnett are forwards. So, I did not include them in my list, however they are complimented by playing alongside a bigger player which allows them to play their natural forward position. Ben Wallace didn’t meet my criteria, but yes he is a center.

1)Miami Shaq, Mourning 2)New York Eddie Curry, Randolph Morris, Jerome James 3)Indiana Jermaine Oneal (if healthy), David Harrison (if healthy) stanko barac 4)Cleveland Zydrunas ilgauska dwayne Jones 5)sixers Samuel Dalembert, Jason Smith, Steven Hunter 6)New Jersey Jamaal Magloire, Jason Collins, Mile llic 7)Washington Calvin booth, Oleksiy Pecherov, Brenden Haywood 8)Milwaukee Andrew Bogut, Dan Gadzuric 9)Orlando Tony Battie 10)Rapters Rasho Nestorovic 11)Bobcats Primoz Brezec, Ryan hollins, jake voskuhl 12)Bulls Joakim Noah, Aaron Gray, Martynas Andriuskevicicius 13)Hawks Zaza Pachulia, Lorenzen Wright 14)Detroit Cheik Samb, Dale Davis (Fa) 15)Boston Michael Olawonkandi

By reese

August 1, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Doc, the bad part is that Bernie stated that speedy was fully recovered and able to make cuts 2 weeks in a row.

I wish that the talk show host really had a clue about basketball and would challenge Bernie a little bit more. At least call him out on this point and ask him point blank are the hawks willing to go to camp with this roster, especially since we know we are not going to get any production out of lorenzen wright, shelden will be playing out of position and he have not added a low post defender nor low post scorer.

This would be laughable, except that this imbalanced roster has happened for 3 years straight.

Is it me or does Acie Law’s game remind anyone else of Johnny Dawkins game.

By doc

August 1, 2007 10:05 PM | Link to this

sekou, thanks for the update on speedy. it does leave me a bit on edge though. what was bernie mullins spinning two weeks ago when he was stating loud and clear on 680 that speedy was moving well and had fully recovered from his surgery. the guy might have lost a bit of credibilitty there as it now seemed more that he was just doing a spin on the hawks and what he hopes not what has reallly come down or he really doesnt know himself which is even scarier.

By terrell

August 1, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

ABE, Ryan Gomes was involved in the trade.

By BosnianBaller

August 1, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this

dante you are completly wron about j smith. why should smoove kiss woodsons a* when woodson is a garbage coach. If i were him i would do everything opposite woodson said. smith is a stud and keeps working hard on his game.

if smith leaves which he will because we have cheap a* owners then it’s back to rebulding.thanks alot spirt.is there any chance david mcdavid buys the hawks

By The Flash

August 1, 2007 7:43 PM | Link to this

reese I think Prince plays the 3, which is a position in which he creates ridiculous match up problems for everyone. If he played for the Hawks, I think that that is where he would play. I think that the offense would be much smoother with him, and that it would give the Hawks another proven “go to” guy.

I am no a stat man, and I am not hatin on Smooth and I have not seen him anywhere near the amount that you guys are so high on him are. To me, he slows down the half court offense and has not shown any inclination, interest, in not doing so. However, I have said that I defer to you guys and see him starting as the 3.

But, you ask me who I’d take, Prince everytime, at the 3 spot.

BTW, I still say that if Marvin jumps out and becomes now what people projected, I think that he is a better 3 than Smooth for this team’s personnel. Smooth I see with his current skill and mind set as being terrific on a runout team like NJ. If he has and continues to round out his game, then I see him fitting well here.

To say that I don’t think that Smooth really fits well here is not to say that I don’t think he is a terrific player. I have no problem whatever with accepting completely the high value you guys who have seen him day in and day out place on him.

Me, personally, I’d need to see him grow in ways that seem to disinterest him, or I would trade him as a highly valued asset and get value for him. That is me, my opinion.

BTW, I feel exactly the same way for similar reasons about Gilbert Arenas and the Zards, only I think that it is a reasonably sure bet that Arenas will not change. With the current Arenas, as terrific and entertaining as he is, I do not think that the Wizzards will ever be anything but a first-round-and-out club because they will never have an inside game because Gilbert can’t throw it inside and chew gum at the same time. I’m sure fans in Washington would think me as nuts as you guys. I think I’m right as rain in both instances. Like my old man used to say, “Sue me.”

As for the Center position, who besides the two Florida teams in the East has one, and Orlando’s is really a monster 4 playing 5 (what’s this with numbers and positions anyway). An inside post-up player is an inside post-up player, period. Call him what you wish.

By Dante

August 1, 2007 7:08 PM | Link to this

Well, until Josh Smith GROWS UP and matures some, Hawks won’t pay him the quam. He needs to do what his coach tells him to do, in other words show that he is a coachable as well as a talented player.

By reese

August 1, 2007 6:58 PM | Link to this

What do Al Henderson, Al Harrington and Al Horford have in common beside their first name is Al and their last name starts with an H. They all are players in which the coach have contemplated playing them at the center position. The line between flexibility and being insane is very thin/short. Why won’t you bloggers, coaches and whoever else stop trying to play these guys out of their natural position. Do you like watching the underdog/undersized player trying to excel above the others at a disadvantage. Are you gluttons for punishment. I just don’t get it. Anyone who is projecting Al Horford to play center is setting him up for failure. Why do that to the kid.

The same goes for Shelden, just because he failed at power forward doesn’t make him an automatic lock for being able to play center. Maybe we should try putting a true center next to him and see how he plays at power forward. I doubt it would be much better. But hey, what do I know.

By reese

August 1, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this

Flash, I don’t know what you have against talent. Tayshaun Prince is allowed the opportunity to play small forward on a team that allows their players to play their natural position. Yet, he has worse stats than Josh Smith in almost every category.

I’m not saying that Tayshaun Prince is a bad player, I just saying that he is not better than Josh Smith. What do you base your judgement. Do you really think that if they switched roles, Tayshaun could play power forward for the hawks and put up the same numbers as Josh. And do you think that Josh Smith couldn’t easily switch to small forward in Detroits line up. If you do, to both accounts, then you must not be watching the same games that I’m watching.

By The Flash

August 1, 2007 5:39 PM | Link to this

honestman Chill ain’t going nowhere and no way Smooth is as good as Prince. Otherwise, I like you’re take, except they are not going to play Smooth at the 4 regularly; only for pieces when they play small ball.

Law, I believe, will be starting and getting most of the playing time. If someone starts in front of him, I see it being AJ. Speedy I think needs to be in front of a team that turns other teams over and can really defensive rebound. That’s why they call him “Speedy.”

Prince was a dominent offensive force in college. Played on a big stage and handled the pressure situations. He is not asked to do that in Detroit. IMO, if he were here, for example, he would be someone who you would want to give the ball to on the top down the stretch.

Impossible match up problems. A guy big enough to trouble the shot, he goes by; the others he shoots over. Only a real solidly built 6’9” guy who likes to get in people’s chests might give him problems.

And, hey, the guy has made some pretty remarkable defensive stops on some pretty big stages. Nope, you guys are too close to the situation to be objective.

Prince is a freak in the goodest sense, and is a wonderful team player. On Detroit, he is paired with two too many donnas, prima ones in Billips and Rip. Both those guys are good character guys who have become way too filled with themselves, imo.

I still have trouble forgiving Rip for saying “NO” when Brown asked him to help with the Olympics. Having Rip around would have done so much for the team, if for no other reason that the other guys could actually see what Brown wanted when he gave certain directions. He and Big Ben virtually stabbed Brown in the back, I have to think with Dumars’ blessing, as Dumars wanted them fresh for another title run.

You free Prince from those two, and I think he is prime time for someone.

By Anakin Joe

August 1, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this

Abe, I thought you were caught up in the drama in Richmond/Surry County. Congrats on the new gig. Comparison between Smith, Howard, prince and Gerald Wallace came up in context of recent 5 year contracts signed. I thought he should get at least as much as those cats, Flash thought less than. Pop in when you can.

By The Flash

August 1, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Terrell I’d have to defer to you guys on this Smoov thing but I’d have to play him at the 3. I’d have Horford and ZaZa, JJ and Law.

However, I have serious reservations about Smoov getting the ball inside. I think that his outside shot will be improved this year, and, having worked with Murphy, look for him to have something of a mid-range jump shot off the dribble game which was Murphy’s bread and butter.

But, I have to say that I see Marvin having more potential as a contributor in the half court offense at the three than Smoov. School’s out, however, and he will have to show an ability to score the ball, and score it off of what is easy, that is, a jump shooting game with an ability to go to the basket to keep defenses honest.

That is what I believe made him the 2 overall, his potential in that regard. He is no Deng but that is the sort of offensive game I think that he is capable of. If he shows up ready, then I personally believe that he can beat Smoov out.

If Marvin were to beat Smoov out, I’d have to think that I’d be playing Shelden instead of ZaZa. Marvin is no Smooth on the glass or on defense; Shelden is better at both than ZaZa.

I have a feeling that Smoov would not accept a sixth man role, however, while Marvin will. So, Marvin might well get his minutes.

I really wish that they had made the change to Drew after last season ended. From what doc said last year, I think that his offensive concepts would bring some life to this team that Woody tries but fails to infuse through emphasizing defensive intensity and isolation play.

I think that their most exciting team will be when they go “small” and have Chill in the game. I think that he really helps the offense in the half court, the team becomes crisper, and more cohessive and decisive. Horford in the middle, Smooth at the 4 (at least on defense), JJ and either Law or Marvin depending how each develops and is performing at the time. Again, I think that Drew’s concepts would do much better in the small ball context than Woody’s.

I know everyone is concerned with Ws and playoffs. Me, if I see a team that sings on offense and competes well, I watch. No song, I watch reruns first.

By terrell

August 1, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

One thing thats for sure is that we have a lot of different looks that we can throw at teams next season. We can all agree to that.

By honest_abe

August 1, 2007 4:44 PM | Link to this

suuup guys long time. new job, new hours = no time to blog :(

ken: don’t get carried away with boston signing kg? i’ve tried really hard to find something wrong with boston’s recent acquisitions. age, a depleted bench etc. but it really doesn’t matter. boston can trot out danny ainge and doc rivers with their new potent trio and they’d still be the team to beat in the east. i thought boston came out a big winner in the trade for allen. they only improved by light years by trading for kg. sure their window is only about 3 years. but they’re going to be really good for those 3. as for team chemistry? which one of those players has ever had issues playing team ball? kg has been criticized for being selfish enough. ray allen takes whats given to him. and pierce has that penchant to take over games in the 4th. this is a great combination of skill, experience and leadership. add a couple of nice complimenting pieces such as tony allen, ryan gomes, rajon rondo, kendrick perkins. rookies big baby and usc kid that looked really good in summer leagues. and you got a squad that should be the team to beat in the east.

all this talk about comparing jsmith to howard? (are you kidding me?) they aren’t the same size. they don’t play the same position. what’s there to compare? as for prince. he’s a solid role player who can contribute for a good team. he’s nowhere near good enough to carry a bad team. jsmith has a lot of game (anybody check his stats last year?) and is only getting better. he’s better than prince. end of discussion.

as for our hawks. if speedy is fully recovered we should start him and bring acie off the bench. if he’s not healthy then i think the nod should go to aj. rounding out the starting five should be joe, marvin, josh and horford. zaza can be effective off the bench and gives us much needed scoring. sheldon should see alot of minutes backing up anyone and everyone in the frontcourt. odd man out looks like it’s going to be blog favorite solomon jones who ain’t near ready to contribute consistently. i expect the hawks to look to ship lue, lorenzen and chills by the trading deadline depending on how the hawks stack up on the east.

damn is it really almost time for basketball again?

By terrell

August 1, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this

The scary part is that most of us dont know where smoov is going to play so more than likely our inept coach does’nt either. As I recall it took him all of last year to figure out that Sheldon plays better at the 5 spot. What would be your lineup FLASH?

By The Flash

August 1, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this

**Terrell” Be careful what you wish for.

If Smooth starts at the 3, which I agree with Samuel is likely, you might be wondering how yet another big, this time Horford, managed to disappoint. But, at this point, that might be more a product of old offensive concepts than anything Smooth can or cannot do.

Samuel I like the case that you made for your boy Smooth, especially that bit about being able to take over games with his defense.

Prince has a feel for the game that Smooth never will, in my opinion. And, he stands on the outside like a seven footer, with terrific slithering abilities, hands, creativity off the bounce. We need to disagree about this, but I’m hearing you about the kid’s value.

By terrell

August 1, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this

Samuel, I wish that we could start Josh S. at the 3, but his outside shot just isnt there. If Marvin struggles then I think we will have start smoov at the 3 and Horford at the 4. I did hear that Josh was working on his outside game with Calvin Murphy. If thats true and his shot improves dramatically, I would definately start him at the 3 and Horford at pf. That combo would be nasty. I cant wait for the season to begin. I have’nt said that in years.

By The Flash

August 1, 2007 1:41 PM | Link to this

Speedy’s knee problemsmy intuition and recent experiences say that they are foot related.

The feet are the most strategic machine in the body and obviously bear the brunt of everything we do in terms of generating force and movement. Guy turns an ankle, pain goes away and he is “ok.” Really? Could have caused displacement of bones in lower leg and bones in feet, causing dramatic though not noticeable change in how he ambulates. Catches up with you.

With all the “expert” trainers we got out there, how many know how to work with the workings of feet, and will be aware if something is out of whack in relation to the complex machine that the bones in the feet comprise? Or Not?

By doc

August 1, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

fred, i heard that speedy was ready to go as his surgery was earlier than lue’s and he has worked hard with the same trainer in vancouver that rebuilt the body of the thrashers goalie. the goalie incidentally had an injury free year after the rehab. he didnt have knee probs but core issues that resulted in groin sprains. i guess we get to see how good he is at building bodies to alleviate knee issues.

lue had an injury during workouts this summer and only had the surgery a couple of weeks ago the way it was put. prognosis was good according to bernie but that remains to be seen as it sounded like it was too early to be tested.

By Ken Strickland

August 1, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

Don’t get carried away with the sensationalism of Boston signing KG. They gave up a lot of players and talent for him. As good as Allen, Pierce and Garnett are individually, can they carry this team for 82gms, because Boston’s bench wasn’t that deep or experienced to begin with. What do you think it will look like now, and how much do you think it will contribute? Are you really expecting 3 players, with mileage, to carry a team that has been depleted by the trade?

I admit, Boston will be a more exciting teams to watch, and will have a lot more to look at than just PPierce. But they will have to add a lot of new players to fill out their bench, since 1 or 2 of the remaining players will move into a starting roll. They will have a lot of adjustments to make, and team chemistry will be an issue as well.

By Samuel

August 1, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Basically,

It doesn’t really matter who starts where. Bottom line we have the same problem(weak post defense). Horford will fair no better than Sheldon or Za Za or Lo, he will get pounded night in and night out by NBA 5’s. I think his natural position is the 4 so that would move Josh to the 3.

I agree that J Smith’s best position on offense would be the 4 but I just don’t have much confidence in Marvin. I believe that Sheldon and Za Za will have to log major minutes for us to have a chance on the boards, which will move Josh to the 3.

Coyote, thanks for the spell check.

By Fred Everett

August 1, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this

Speedy and T-Lue both had knee surgery about 5-6 weeks ago. Apparently nothing serious…just debris removal…6 weeks recovery period.

By Willie Coyote

August 1, 2007 10:56 AM | Link to this

Not to insult anyone or to cast stones but it is “Ridiculous” not “Redicoulus”.

By terrell

August 1, 2007 10:40 AM | Link to this

SAMUEL, its all about VERSATILITY

By terrell

August 1, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this

Samuel, Josh Smith will start at the 4. He played a lot better at the pf. All he has to do is work on his post moves, and I hear he’s working on that with Hakeem. Marvin is a better outside threat that Smoov, so he should start at the 3. Horford will backup the 4 and the 5. MY LINEUP: (starters first) 1:LAW/SPEEDY/LUE 2: JOE/CHILL/SALIM 3: MARVIN/CHILL/SMOOV 4: SMOOV/HORFORD/MARVIN/ 5:HORFORD/SHELDON/ZAZA In a couple of years not only should we be one the best young teams in the league, but we should also be one of the deepest. Dont you think? Lorenzen and AJ should be packaged

By some sense

August 1, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

Given Sekou’s remarks re. his “dinner guest’s” comments about Claxton, does anyone know anything about hishealth at this point? e. g. Is he spending this off season resting, recuperating, relaxing, playing, conditioning,???????

All the (now, take your pick) Knight must go, Woodson must go, Marvin must go, everybody must go talk has become as trite as yelling “air ball” during a game. Hawks have improved every year Knight/Woodson have been on board; Williams had a step-up year last year, maybe a break-out year this year.

By MALONE

August 1, 2007 12:54 AM | Link to this

Good Point about the Celts: Are they done dealing? Do they have a complete team?

I think Ainge will be unemployed by Xmas 2008…

Then again, so might BK…

Although, I got a hunch that our forward “rotation” will step up and vault us into the playoffs this year.

By Samuel

August 1, 2007 12:30 AM | Link to this

Terrell,

Where does that leave Josh Smith. Are you kidding me. Smith is on the verge of allstar and Marvin just hasn’t panned out. No way Smith is on the bench. Yes we do need to move at least one of these forwards and I say Marvin.

By GuyFromUruguay

August 1, 2007 12:27 AM | Link to this

Since the one glaring weakness the new Boston team has is a point guard, could Atlanta get something out of Boston in exchange for one of our spare veteran PGs?

Maybe a 1st round pick (2010 probably) or several 2nd rounders, or Big Baby Davis or Gabe Pruitt or any other youngster they don’t want to develop (remember, they have to win now or bust).

By curious

July 31, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

Flash- Since Prince is such a great passer why does JS avg. more assists than him? If he is such a great rebounder why does JS avg. 3 more rpg than him. He also doubles his spg and has 4x more blocks. Prince is a product of his team. He has great players to get him the ball where he needs it. Josh has Joe that is about it when it comes to passing the ball. Go check Prince’s stats against Clev. LBJ punked him why do you think Chauncey & Rip guarded him the whole series. Josh Howard is a great player no denying that but save that Prince nonsense. 10 game improvement you are joking.

By ray

July 31, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this

Samuel, I’d hate to give up Marvin after still not seeing exactly what he’s capable of. However, you can’t ignore the 7’ 280lb Diop for any reason. Dude is big and strong, can rebound/bang/defend. Yeah, he has seemed to be a fouling machine at times, but better to have him out there with Shell and Zaza as backups. Especially with Zaza as a back-up and change-of-tune to Diop offensively. Besides, we wouldn’t need the offensive center as much with Horford here. I believe he can provide the low post scoring we’ve been missing.

Why? Horford can score on his own and will get better at it. Even more importantly, he’s already shown us his ability to pass into or out of the post. So, when threatened with the double-team, he can pass down to a guy like Diop where he can put up the easy 2 points. That’s what makes Horford special and what can make him more dangerous with a true 5 on the court with him. Truth be told, that may actually be worth parting with one or more pieces. I’m just not entirely wich one(s).

Flash, I see what you’re saying about Prince. I know the dude’s good. I just don’t know if he’s that much better (your stated automatic 10 game improvement) in OUR system. He fits in Detroit’s system quite well. They look to him for offense when it’s a struggle for point production from Hamilton or Billups. He can definitely defend, no arguments there. And he’s a team player. But is he really better on our confused team than Smith? Maybe. Maybe not. It’s kinda like the whole Smith vs. Deng vs. Iguodala thing. It really may not matter if the coach and system used by the coach isn’t working for the player. How many talented guys has this system (or lack thereof) chewed up and spit out? On the flip side, any talented veteran with a good mindset (and anywhere near Smith’s talent level) is a help. JJ would probably do back flips across the court for hours…

By terrell

July 31, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this

Samuel, Marvin is going to play at the 3 spot, Horford at the 4 and 5 , so yes we do need that many forwards. Sounds to me like you’ve given up on 2 players that have played only 2 seasons. Thats also REDICULOUS. I never said that Diop wouldn’t help the Hawks, but I would not give up my entire 2005 draft for him.

By Samuel

July 31, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

I must have missed the Howard vs Smith vs Prince comparison.

That would be tough. As of now, I’d take Howard but I’d definately love to have either one. Prince can guard 2 possibly three positions and can score from the inside and outside. Smith can also guard 2 positions and can absolutely take over a ballgame defensively,which is very special.

Howard can do it all. Definately in the top 5 all-around players in the league right now.

By newkid

July 31, 2007 4:02 PM | Link to this

Hate to continue beating a dead horse (sorry PETA), but this one keeps raising its head. Here’s an exerpt from Marc Stein’s column today on the Garnett to Boston trade:

“Celtics management has made the commitment to stray into luxury-tax territory for the opportunity to team Garnett with Allen and franchise mainstay Paul Pierce in an Eastern Conference for the taking.”

You’ll recall that Cleveland recently made a similar commitment to ‘run the luxury tax barricade’ (if necessary) in pursuit of a championship. Because of the ASG fiasco, we aren’t even allowed to run the salary cap barricade, much less the luxury tax barricade (~$12 mil difference).

Can we ‘win’ if we continue to be held - by the court - to far lower expenditure expectations than 90% of those with whom we compete? Perhaps. Hopefully we have the maturing (and new) pieces needed to be competitive this season, but if so it’ll be in spite of - certainly not thanks to - the ownership group.

By The Flash

July 31, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

*Samuel and AJ Prince, in my view, is one of the toughest match ups in the league offensively. He shoots with range, puts it on the floor and is comfortable playing with you while on the bounce until he sees what he wants, has a range of mid range finishes and can finish at the basket.

He also fits into any system, and makes people around him better. He passes the ball well, and moves well without the ball, both to create space and screens and to receive in good spots.

Rebounds and defends.

I’d take him in a straight up trade for Smooth and this team has at least 10 more wins. Perhaps more importantly, the product on the floor will look oh so much sweeter.

Otherwise, I agree with you guys 100%.

By mavid

July 31, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

Mutombo would be a no-brainer to me. He can guard opposing 5s for 10-20 minutes a night. Even more importantly perhaps, he could be invaluable to the development and coaching of Horford, Shelly and Zaza. Those 3 would benefit lots from having him around giving pointers on the practice court and during games.

It would be a great move.

By BlazerBob

July 31, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

Blah Blah Blah. You people are living in fantasy land. Face it Hawks fans- you live in a twilight zone of perpetual rebuilding. Actually, rebuilding is just a euphemism for sucking. The Blazers are a team truly rebuilding- they were good, they blew it up, they were bad, now they are getting better. And they’re doing it in the Western conference in a shorter time. Of course, they’re not hamstrung by a GM with a mancrush on forwards. Even Boston is making noise. The Hawks are the most irrelevent franchise in sports.

By Samuel

July 31, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

Terrell,

Not really. Salim is basically a #7 or #8 player on any team in the league and Marvin is definately not all that. If we keep Salim he’ll get 15 minutes at the most and don’t forget we just drafted another forward so obviously Marvin is not the Savior. Childress is much more versitile.

We give up Marvin and we still have: Chill,J Smith, Horford, Sheldon and Za Za. How many damn forwards do you need.

Diop, Horford and J Smith looks a lot better than any combination we can put on the floor right now.

Diop and Dampier started or played major minutes for one of the best teams in the league, so comparing them to anything we got is as you say, “REDICOULUS”. Trust me, either one would definately help this team.

By terrell

July 31, 2007 10:55 AM | Link to this

Samuel, Salim and Marvin for Diop is just flat out REDICULOUS. Dallas gave Dampier a huge contract and he still cant get off the bench. A summer leaguer played better for Dallas(DIOP)and you want to bring in another bum with a huge contract.And as far as Dale Davis goes, he was washed up when he left Indiana. Mutumbo might could come in here for leadership and to show our young guys how to play defense in the paint, but I dont know what his salary is. I would definately swap Lorenzen and one of our aging point guards for Dikembe if possible.

By terrell

July 31, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Ken, I hope you’re right. But come on man, no matter how you want to spin it, KG, Pierce and Allen guarantees the Celtics a playoff spot in tne East. Washington PLAYED NO DEFENSE and still to a good defensive team in the Cavaliers down to the wire in the playoffs last year. They were hit with the injury bug this year but with Caron, Gilbert, and Antwawn, I see them right back in the thick of things in 2007-2008. And one more thing, Sheldon didnt come into the same situation as Sean Williams. New Jersey has been a playoff team for years. With Kidd, Jefferson, and a happy Vince Carter, not to mention Kristic, all Sean has to focus on is doing what he does best, which is altering shots. And I’m sure that the Nets coaching staff will make that clear to him. Hell,Woody just realized that Sheldon plays better at the 5 than the 4. I know you didnt try and put the Hawks in the same category as Washington, New Jersey, and Boston with Garnett. GET SERIOUS! I like the optimism though

By Mr. Gilley

July 31, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

I am very excited about the Hawks upcoming season and miss peacful blogs about sports and not condeming individual people and what they have been accused of. I think the playbook Woodson uses is terrible. He give Joe Johnson isolation plays and the rest of the Hawks watch. RUn some Plays Woodson and Salim should get more PT. If I was J-SMoove, I wouldn’t accept the deal and just show my worth to the Hawks this season. I like Lue coming off the bench. People forget that he play big in the clutch and hit key shots..But how soon we forget. But someone has to go..

By Anakin Joe

July 31, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Samuel, I would definitely bring Mutombo back, he has said he would only play for Atlanta or Houston. We need to dump Lo Wright first (maybe a S&T with Houston).

Flash, I agree with Ray, Howard over Smith but not the other 2. Smith is worthy of at least a 5/$50M contract and I’m guessing he will at least get that. I’m not a huge fan but I do recognize that he is one of a few players in the NBA who can change a game defensively and the only one with that ability in a 6’9” body. I’d love to see what he could do with a real head coach.

2 more months of inactivity and how many more weeks of a blog with backwards postings?

Sekou, could you possibly expound on your mention of what Marvin and Chill are doing to up their game? We know about Speedy’s knee rehab and Smith working out in Houston. How about some added insight into Marvin and Chill’s off-season activity?

By doc

July 31, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

samuel, agree. standing pat is not what champions do nor up and comers. the draft choices are good but may not add any new dimensons to this team and mature too late to make a significant difference in a playoff run or outcome. in essence just going into the season is standing pat. they will help but probably not carry the load needed. we are destined to be the third worst team in the league as it stands now, seattle and portland, who probably is not yet ready to contend, will be with us. all the other folk that stood with us at the bottom last year have significantly upgraded including your knicks, finally.

anyone want to specualte how kobe must be feeling now that kg is going to boston istead of l a?

By Samuel

July 31, 2007 9:07 AM | Link to this

Mount Mutombo is an unrestricted free agent. Why not bring him back here to finish out his career. You know what you’re getting with him. Still one of the best shot blockers in the game and a great community guy.This town needs a breath of fresh air right now.

Also, Earl Barron is an unrestricted FA. Miami probably wouldn’t match any serious offer since they just signed Parker.

Then you got Dale Davis and Unrestricted FA in Detroit and Ely in San Antonio or try to pry one of the two-headed monsters from Dallas(Diop or Dampier). Salim and Marvin for Diop?

We got to do something to get better inside. Nomatter how good our young forwards develop we still will get kilt in the paint.

My starting 5 as of now.

PG- Law- Let him take his bumps and bruises at the start of the season and by midseason he’ll be ready and speedy will have more time to recover. SG- JJ SF- Josh Smith. I’m looking for an allstar caliber performance from him this year. PF- Al Horford. Solid as a rock C- Za Za or Sheldon

No matter who we plug in at center we still get pounded.

We still need to come out like we did last year. Pressuring and denying the ball and running. Hopefully this year we can stay healthy and make a run at #8. It will be much tougher though.

The Celtics will knock somebody out and my Knicks got better so I still don’t see us making it unless we get a true post presence.

By Ken Strickland

July 31, 2007 3:02 AM | Link to this

TERRELL, the Hawks have started one of the best shot blockers in the NBA over the last 2yrs, and our DEF is still weak. Remember, Shelden Williams was a top shot blocker in college, so don’t get too excited about Shaun Williams just yet. The Wizards are appropriately named because they disappear when it comes to playing DEF. They are all OFF and no DEF, while the Bulls are all DEF and no OFF. The Celtics look good on paper, but they will have a lot of individual and team adjustments to make. Either Allen or Pierce will have to play SF. All 3players are accustomed to being the primary go too guys. Now, at least 2 will have to play subordinate roles and become 2nd and 3rd options.

The NBA doesn’t award playoff berths based on what a team has on paper. Therefore, the Hawks still have a better than average chance of making the playoffs.

By fidgety!

July 31, 2007 2:24 AM | Link to this

Dan @ 8:57 p.m.

I also mentioned Devin Green, who also made noise and more so than Raivio. I was referring to both gentlemen.

I only got to see the games vs. San Antonio (in which both Green and Raivio scored in double figures, albeit against a scrubalicious Spurs team) and Dallas. I had hoped that one or the other or both would merit a training camp invite. I have the feeling Raivio will go to Europe … where frankly I’m increasingly thinking is somewhat better basketball than the more showbiz-oriented NBA.

No hard feelings. It is nice to read about actual basketball again instead of the gruesome Donaghy sideshow.

By tb

July 31, 2007 2:03 AM | Link to this

The Garnett trade is very interesting. Very good move for Boston. We did’nt have the big contract to move to get in on that deal.

It is clear that the path to the playoffs in the East has gotten significantly tougher. It will take a healthy Speedy and inside competitivity at least.

Smeeoove could still smooth out his game, but I’m not sure that I see him as a second option on OFF. He should get about 16 again, but his strength is his all-round game and D.

Marvin is the third year guy that could be big for us this year. He has a starting slot in the middle of our line up and we need exactly what he can bring, a guy that can put it in the basket working outside in. He will continue to improve his mid-range game and he should round out the moves to the hoop. He has the all-round OFF potential to be a very solid scorer.

JJ needs to show that he can raise his game exponentially as his team-mates improve around him. He needs to do his thing, but also become the sure thing playing with (and above) his very talented team.

Horford and Law look good and will contribute this year. Depth shouldn’t be an issue.

The paint is the only concern, aside from youth and quality of competition.

Shelden/Zaza/Horford/L0 are going to have to be able to hold their own in the crunch. Zaza’s numbers look good when looked at over the body, but I think that in the deciding moments, other teams are able to raise the level where Zaza can’t go. Will Shelden/Horford be able to do it?

We could still lose a lot of close games because of the inability to control the paint when it matters.

By reese

July 30, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this

I too heard Bernie Mullin on the radio last Friday. He spoke about all the moves the hockey team made and that they seemed to be ready. However, they could still be looking for help if a good opportunity came up.

Then, he spoke about the hawks. He got excited about the fact that speedy’s knee is healthy and that the team liked what they saw out of Al Horford in the summer league. Even though he was injured and did get a lot of action. He did not once mention that the hawks looked at or are looking to make any moves.

Again, I appreciate the fact that Bernie comes on the radio and provides feedback about the direction of the team. The problem is I don’t like the direction of the team.

Case in point, Speedy was the backup point guard for a championship San Antonio team. Billy Knight felt that speedy could come to the hawks and start. In other words, he felt that he could take a role player on a championship team, give him a major role on a non championship team and that he would be a difference maker.

Well, if it was that simple, then we should have kept Jacque Vaughn (NOT). You know, a point guard for the hawks in the 03/04 season. The player who missed his first 20 shots. Guess where he is playing now. Thats right, he is the backup point guard for the Championship San Antonio spurs. They won with him backing up Tony Parker and passing to Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobli, Finley and Horry.

Come on Hawks, get a clue, your knowledgeable have a clue and want you to make some deals. I know that you are broke, but there are still some veteran players out there who have not been signed and may come cheap. Standing pat with this lineup will have us coming in last in our own division with no first round pick next year.

By terrell

July 30, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

gregw, for the last time, the Hawks cant afford KG. Even if they could, do you think he would want to come to an organization that has ownership problems? NOT A CHANCE

By ray

July 30, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

More gloom and doom. So, Garnett really is coming east, eh? Yeah, that did major damage to our shaky and heavily premature playoff “hopes.”

I don’t see the organization making any really meaningful moves, not even in training camp. Of course, we don’t even know who will be there for certain. And while some say it’s wise to just let Josh Smith play the season out and then think about signing him: perhaps the real reason is the possible inability to pay the man what he’s worth and keep other guys around. Yeah, I could be reaching with that one, but management as a whole hasn’t struck me as being too sharp. Of course, I give Billy boy good marks for the draft.

I still think the head coach position is a major issue. But once again, this season will prove a lot of things. Things already known, and things we don’t know yet.

At any rate, thanks Sekou for putting something out there to talk about besides the scandals and what not.

Flash, I would take Josh Howard if picking a guy over Smith. But not Prince. Howard is one of a kind, Prince is good, but not that good. And he does as well as he does on a team where he FITS. Some people feel that Josh doesn’t fit here, yet he produces more than Prince does. Of course, there are a number of technicalities to debate there…

By Dan

July 30, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

fidgety

Raivio made the most noise? Sorry, but what the h#ll games were you watching?

Sekou, I think the PG choice is easy. Find a way to dump Speedy. Start Law and have Lue and AJ backup.

The way Knight handles Speedy will show what kind of GM we have. In the spring, many on here were pointing out that even Joe Dumars made some mistakes. What all these people failed to mention was that Dumars has gotten out of his mistakes. Have you noticed that Darko no longer wears a Piston jersey?

It’s OK to make some mistakes, they will happen. The good GM’s get out of them. Speedy is a clown and will not be any different this year. I still do not believe the guy was really hurt. I will not be convinced until I see a doctor’s note.

I will volunteer to pack Speedy’s bags for him. F that guy.

By BosnianBaller

July 30, 2007 8:27 PM | Link to this

I know the hawks are not going to make some dramatic trade, but we still do not have a center.I would at least like to see BK sign Calvin Cato or anybody that is seven feet tall.We also really don’t have a point gaurd I love Law but he is not a true pg and speedy is suspect.

By terrell

July 30, 2007 8:20 PM | Link to this

Tyger ,unless David Stern has just announced that they’ve been moved, Memphis is in the Western Conference.

By St. Bernard

July 30, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this

I can’t read the comments unless they’re put back in descending order.

By terrell

July 30, 2007 8:03 PM | Link to this

Ken, New Jersey just drafted the best shot blocker in the draft, not named Oden, in Sean Williams, and if Caron, Gilbert, and Jameson stay healthy, I think Washington will definately make the playoffs.

By reese

July 30, 2007 7:26 PM | Link to this

Does this Boston deal remind anyone of when Houston signed Charles Barkley and Clyde Drexler to play alongside Hakeem Olajuwon.

Boston having Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett does not guarantee a championship. However, I bet it guarantees sold out seats at home and on the road, increase in Boston Team Jerseys sold, 3 all star ballots/positions with Celtic players, increased television exposure for the celtics, a winning season and a playoff birth.

Anyone who sees anything different is in denial. Some organizations just know how to do it right.

And then there are some organizations who just seem to flounder. Need I mention who I’m talking about.

By Ken Strickland

July 30, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

MIKE, Washington and New Jersey aren’t locks. Neither team plays any type of meaningful DEF, and both are very weak inside OFF/DEF. Since they’re both veteran clubs, they aren’t likely to improve very much over last yr. On the other hand, the Hawks can improve in lots of ways. Better coaching, individual player development, better team health, chemistry, outside shooting, more inside talent, more depth, etc. are ways this team can improve and compete.

If we break training camp healthy, and remain relatively injury free, we can compete for a playoff spot. Remember how we started out last yr, and that was with the loss of two starters before the season started. Losing those starters made our already weak bench even weaker, and it finally caught up with us. This yr we will be deeper and more talented, expecially inside, and more experienced. We will still be the youngest and most inexperienced team in the NBA, but we won’t play like it after the Allstar break. MARK MY WORDS.

By tyger

July 30, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

BOSTON knocks HAWKS from playoffs

The sound you just heard was ATL being knocked out of the playoffs by KG, Ray Allen and Paul Pierce and perhaps the 5th seed in the East.

Pre-Season Prediction:

1. Det 2. Cle 3. Mia 4. Chi 5. Bos 6. NJ 7. Orl 8. Tor 9. NYK 10. ATL 11. CHA

If that news doesnt indicate a need for ATL to get longer up front I dont know what does?

Its not time to panic yet, but there’s been a shift in power; the contenders have reinforced their frontcourts significantly:

NYK - Curry/Randolph/James ORL - Howard/Lewis/Battie NJ - Magloire/Boone/Williams? CHI - Wallace/Smith/Noah/Thomas BOS - KG/Perkins/Olowakandi MEM - Gasol/Milicic/Swift MIA - Oneal/Haslem/Mourning ATL - ZaZa/Smith/Horford/Shelden???

By The Flash

July 30, 2007 5:40 PM | Link to this

Anakin Joe I’d take any of the three over Smooth on their bad days, wouldn’t you?

Just to beat a dead horse some more, I think that it is meaningless to discuss someone like Marvin’s offensive potential this season without discussing the system that he operates in.

I think that Woodson’s offensive approaches have failed many of the current players including Smooth, but certainly Marvin and Sheldon, and probably ZaZa and Lorenzo as well.

By Traceman

July 30, 2007 5:28 PM | Link to this

Sekou, was/is the contract offer to Smoove $9M a season to START or an AVERAGE of $9M a season? Huge difference in my opinion. A deal starting at $9M a season could be a 5 yr/$54M offer (with 10% raises each year) which I think is in the ballpark of what Smoove is worth. However, if it is a straight 5 yr/$45M offer, I agree with Anakin Joe that is a bit of a low ball offer.

By gregw

July 30, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Well the AP is reporting its all but a done deal for the Boston-Minnesota deal. If the reports are true, I dont think Boston really had to give up a lot. They give up Al Jefferson, who is a budding young star, but Gerald Green is potential at best, plus Sebastin Telfair and Ratliff’s expiring contract. The Hawks couldnt have come up with a better deal to get Garnett? I hate to see us stand pat all the time and dont try to make bold moves sometimes. As far as the current Hawks go, I think Salim could get more minutes, but I think the Hawks have defesnisve concerns when he is paired with Claxton or Lue. His best chance for playing is in tandem with Law, who might be capable of guarding at the 2 freeing Salim to play defense on the point.

By roan st

July 30, 2007 5:04 PM | Link to this

Sekou, thanks for the update and for christ sake please fix this backward A$$ blog. It’s easier to follow when the comments are in descending order.

By terrell

July 30, 2007 4:43 PM | Link to this

Comment by Mike is actually by Terrell. Sorry about that. My friend has been screwing around with my computer. Thanks again Sekou for the info.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

July 30, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

Yeah Marvin is developing a nice shooting touch, but we are looking for established shooting i would imagine. Marvin can shoot, he is not a shooter- important distinction. At this point Marvin would still do well to make his way to the basket and learn to finish- consistently. He loses the rock or doesnt complete the play too often, though he shoots 80% from line. I agree his development is key and he is the most likely to be the “third option” if he progresses his game to extend beyond the occasional hot 1st qtr.

By MIKE

July 30, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

Boston has yet again started talking to Minnesota about KG. If they land him, that will be another hill that we will have to climb in order to make the playoffs this year. Kg, Ray Allen, and Paul Pierce will make Boston a 2 or 3 seed in the weak Eastern Conference. So lets see, if KG becomes a Celtic, there’s 7 teams that are locks; Cleveland, Boston, Detroit, Toronto, Wasington, New Jersey, and Chicago. We will be probably fighting for the 8th spot with Milwaukee, Orlando, NY, Charlotte,and Miami. Thats going to be tough. Garnett needs to stay in the Western Conference if you ask me. WHAT YALL THINK. THANKS FOR THE INFO SEKOU.

By MIKE

July 30, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

Boston has yety again started talking to Minnesota about KG. If they land him, that will be another hill that we will have to climb in order to make the playoffs this year. Kg, Ray Allen, and Paul Pierce will make Boston a 2 or 3 seed in the weak eastern conference. So lets see, if KG becomes a Celtic, there’s 7 teams that are locks; Cleveland, Boston, Detroit, Toronto, Wasington, New Jersey, and Chicago. We will be probably fighting for the 8th spot with Milwaukee, Orlando, NY, Charlotte,and Miami. Thats going to be tough. Garnett needs to stay in the Western Conference if you ask me. WHAT YALL THINK. THANKS FOR THE INFO SEKOU.

By steve

July 30, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

I keep hearing everyone talk about us needing a shooter to take some of the burden off of Joe. If you watched any of the games last year then you should have noticed that Marvin is blossoming into a real scoring threat from outside the paint.

By mavid

July 30, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

oh and the proposed KG to Boston deal scares me. KG, Allen, and Pierce is a deadly trio.

By mavid

July 30, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this

Apparently, Mullin was on 680 last week saying Speedy is fully recovered and ready-to-go.

That could mean a lot more than either Horford or Acie.

A backcourt tandem of a healthy Speedy and Law is a great rotation.

Lots of X-factor’s next year.

1) Speedy’s health 2) Marvin’s development 3) Horford/Zaza/Shelly’s contributions 4) Law’s impact

I feel like we know what we’re getting from Joe, Smoove, Chill, Lue, AJ, etc., but really need one or two of the above named to step-it-up in a major way.

Best case scenario is Marvin. The dude has such a nice game, but just cant seem to utilize it properly. If he can take a Deng-like step, then things would be looking up.

By Anakin Joe

July 30, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

$9M is clearly a low ball offer when you look at what Josh Howard, Tayshaun Prince and Gerald Wallace received. But I guess you have to start somewhere.

Annoying to constantly read how the Hawks are clueless about how to adequately use their resources. I’m a “registered” Salim fan and still can’t believe how Woody kept him on the bench despite our significant offensive problems most of the season.

By mavid

July 30, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this

The obvious move of the offseason:

AJ or Lue + Shelden or Zaza for a defensive 5 or some other upgrade.

Throw in Salim or Lo if need be and the price is right.

By Matt from Hotlanta Hawks

July 30, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

The Hawks have cap room, but if the rookies all start getting paid what they would get on the open market (through contract extensions), the room is gone. I still think Speedy should be the starting PG until we know if he will ever be the player we keep being told he can be. I’m excited about what Law has been doing this summer, and I don’t think a Horford-Pachulia rotation at center is going to hurt the team (compared to sacrificing one of them to getting another 1). I’m disappointed the Josh Smith deal hasn’t already been signed- if he has a strong year we’re all going to wish the Hawks had offered 10 million for 10 years.

By tyger

July 30, 2007 2:19 PM | Link to this

Thanks Sekou, not only for the info, but, also the opportunity to refocus away from the Vick hysteria.

Speedy is key; but figure it out sooner rather than later. If he can still play, then go for it, otherwise, pull the plug.

I’d run him hard in camp and see if he can respond. Realistically, I’m not betting on Speedy.

Our injury history does not bode well for planning. Speedy, Marvin, Smoove, Chill, Shelden, JJ and Lue all missed significant time last year.

But, I like our depth b/c I dont expect all 14 guys to stay healthy. So, our abundance of forwards really is an asset when you take into account our injury history.

I still think we need a true center, a 7’0 like Brendan Haywood would give us the size and bulk to at least put up a defense against Shaq, Howard, Rasheed, Curry, Okafor, Ilgauskas, Big Ben etc.

Horford helps but he doesnt address that issue, neither does Shelden or ZaZa. Lo Wright isnt afraid, and dont under estimate the value of that, but he’ll foul out in the 1st Qtr, they still need help there.

I still remember Shaq tossing Shelden around like a rag doll, and Shelden cursing Woodson from the frustration. It wasnt fair to put him in that situation and it made us look bad as an organization.

This notion that we are going to play like the Suns, Mavs or Warriors is flawed. They have shooters all over the floor. We can run/dunk and defend sometimes, but shooting, not.

I think ZaZa is the odd man out, its unfortunate b/c he can play, almost a double-double every night, but he wont defend and your BIGS have to defend.

I know its wishful thinking but, if we could get a GOON and a shooter/scorer like an Eddie Jones, I think we would be set.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

July 30, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Supposing one of our many PG’s or in a bolder stroke, one of our wings, are traded, what are we looking for in return? We could use a pick or cash, but- in no way am I trying to sound like a homer with this- I see our roster as pretty much “set”; it just has to get better (if that makes any sense). We have obvious depth at PG- and by extension SG. Our 3/4 bounty is notoriously plentiful and our 5 will be a rotation of Zaza(offense)/Lorenzen(toughness/fouls)/Al (combination). I dont see what we could look for rosterwise with exception of a taller “shooter” if Salim isnt our solution.

Thoughts anyone?

By MannyT

July 30, 2007 1:30 PM | Link to this

Thanks for the pure hoops update!

If the crickets rule and the Hawks do not make a move before opening day, what are the chances that one of the summer league non draftees makes the team?

As for Josh’s contract, if they are not hostile, but agreeing to wait it out—that works, but it will probably cost the Hawks more money in the long run. Hopefully, that time clears up the ownership situation and makes it easier to get things done next summer.

I agree with the Speedy thing. Who is going to pay his salary for 3 years unless he proves to be healthy. If he is well, he probably starts games and Law gets more playing time as the season goes on. I can see dealing Lue or Johnson in February to get a better asset than you get in October.

By fidgety

July 30, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

So I gather the Hawks will not invite anyone to training camp and those who played on the Summer League team that I thought made the most noise (Devin Green and Derek Raivio) are hung out to dry, eh?

I hate the NBA.