AJC > Sports > Hawks > Blog > Archives > 2007 > June > 13 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USWorkout time!
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Finally, we’re getting out of the guessing stage and into the observation stage. The Hawks have a flurry of workouts scheduled for next week, several group workouts that should be quite revealing for the Hawks (no, the media will not be allowed inside for the entire session. So we’ll have to work our sources to find out who did what).
I have to admit, I’m not as big a believer in these individual workouts being all that telling, particularly if they’re done without the added dose of competition.
Years ago I snuck off from the Chicago predraft camp with several NBA types to watch the workout of Pavel Podkolzine, the 7-4 Russian giant that had intrigued international scouts for years. He put on a one-man show that had as many as 300 people (including I remember just about every GM you could imagine) in awe.
People walked out of the place shaking their heads, thinking this guy is the future of big men. He was flying up and down the floor and finishing at the rim with authority. He showed off a nice outside stroke and even handled the ball decently for a man his size. I was believing the hype by the end of the workout, too, it didn’t matte that he was doing all this against imaginary defenders. “How could anybody not use a lottery pick on this dude,” I said to another reporter that was with me. “He’s a 300-pound nightmare for the NBA. He’s going to be a star.”
An executive in Indiana (I was working in Indy back then) tried to talk me off that ledge on the spot. “Calm down young fella,” he said. “Don’t let this workout fool you. This kid can’t play in the NBA. He’s terrible.” But I wasn’t having any of that. I know what my eyes told me. So two days after the camp buzz had ended and your senses have calmed down a bit, that executive invited me into his office to watch some game tape of Pavel so I could make a more informed assessment of his NBA prospects.
He turned it on and tons of little guys were flying around the floor and some 15 seconds later (it might have been half that but it seemed like 15 seconds) my man Pavel came lumbering into the frame. The rest of the game was moving around him at warp speed and the Bear was moving in that Matrix slow motion. It was awful. But the point was made. You need more than a one-hour workout to make an informed opinion about whether or not a guy can give you what you need. (Pavel ended up backing out of the draft that year because of a medical issue, came back later and was drafted late in the first round, the Mavs traded for him and he never found his niche and is now back in Europe).
The moral to that long, rambling story is this: do you homework before just assuming that an initial impression or a glitzy workout tells you everything you need to know. That’s why teams spend all the time they do scouting players the way they do. (Now they just have to make sure that the ultimate decision makers - be it the GM, owners or whoever) listen to the people whose livelihood depends on making good assessments of these players.
Good grief, I said all of that and forgot my main reason for weighing in today. I’ve managed to scramble up some names and dates for workouts next week that should prove interesting (things could change, from what I understand, but as of now this is what the Hawks’ workout slate looks like):
Wednesday, June 20 Acie Law, Javaris Crittenton and Jamon Gordon will work out in a point guard party that morning. Brandan Wright is set for a solo session in the afternoon.
Friday, June 22 Joakim Noah is slated for a solo session that morning.
Saturday, June 23 Rodney Stuckey is slated for a solo session that morning.
Monday, June 25 Al Horford is slated for a solo session in the morning followed by Mike Conley Jr. in a solo session in the afternoon.
Services »
Comments
By sammy miller
June 13, 2007 11:24 AM | Link to this
First…….Yeah baby Yeah…
By Anakin Joe
June 13, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
http://www.metroatlantachamber.com/pr_chinamission.html
I’ve referenced the Mayor’s trip to China several times (I thought it was this year but it was last year). See above link.
NBA Franchise rankings: http://www.forbes.com/home/free_forbes/2007/0212/084.html
Think Houston is a top 5 team because of McGrady and Rafer Alston? Uh, NO.
Too bad Conley is not working out with Crit and Law. If we draft and keep Wright, I may be forced to switch my allegiance to the Wizards (father is from DC).
By Lacsho
June 13, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
Perhaps your article will dwindle the fire that’s burning around here about Yi. I trying to understand since the draft only contains one of our needs, why don’t we go after the best pg in the draft, then trade one of our wings and the 11th pick for a legitimate Center. We should be at the point where we draft for need then fill in the blanks through free agency and trades. The reason I think we should take Conley is b/c we have speedy, and hopefully he remains healthy. A speedy/conley tandem = an up tempo pace, which provides unlimited opportunities for our atheletic wings. Furthermore, both guards are pressure defenders, which we definitely lacked last year. We need a facilitating pg not a scoring pg.
By St. Bernard
June 13, 2007 11:30 AM | Link to this
Gordon must be for competitive purposes, but why Stuckey?
Yi = Pavel
By Gutz
June 13, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
Yeah Jamon Gordon is Royal Ivey part 2. Why in the world are we working this guy out? Sekou please tell us the Hawks are NOT taking Brandon Wright! I will cancel my season tickets on draft night if that happens. There is no room on this roster for ANOTHER 200lb. weakling project at the forward position.
By Sekou K. Smith
June 13, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
St. Bernard,
Some people think Stuckey could end up being the best PG of this draft (I know, where have you heard that before. ha). But I think a team has to do its due diligence when examining all the talent.
The Pavel story had nothing to do with Yi. Yi’s a player. I don’t think anyone should question Yi’s talent, because it’s clear the guy has that in surplus. I just don’t know if he’s the best fit for this Hawks team. Pavel was the figment of the imagination of his handlers and agent.
And Joe, Forbes can keep those franchise rankings. I just want the franchise that wins titles. That ranking is great for the owners of the team. But the fans want titles.
By Volman
June 13, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this
If the Hawks get Wright at #3, I’m gonna head “wright” out of the Hawks fanbase.
By Theo
June 13, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this
The more I hear Brandan Wright’s name mentioned, the more afraid I become that we’re gonna take him.
Of course, that fear is only superceded by some of the potential trade scenarios that I have read. I have this nagging, evil, nervous pit in my stomach that when it is all said and done, Hawks fans will be screaming at their TVs, computers or paper: “What the…! AUUUGGGHHHH!”
By Theo
June 13, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
The more I hear Brandan Wright’s name mentioned, the more afraid I become that we’re gonna take him.
Of course, that fear is only superceded by some of the potential trade scenarios that I have read. I have this nagging, evil, nervous pit in my stomach that when it is all said and done, Hawks fans will be screaming at their TVs, computers or paper: “What the…! AUUUGGGHHHH!”
By The Slumlord
June 13, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this
Just think, I didn’t have to work out at all because that fool Knight promised me the #5 spot!! I am still laughing every time I cash my check at that “expert”. Just because my fiance’ (Candace Parker) can beat me like a drum doesn’t mean I stink. Did you see what I did the last two weeks of the season? I kicked those bums I was playing against kids. Ha Ha! Thanks Billy Knight for believing in my weak game! I am horrible, and I was the fifth pick. Me, Chills, and Marvin thank you for being a fool, and thank the Atlanta Spirit for having no vision, basketball IQ, or business acumen to know that Billy is killing this franchise. I am the Landlord, not the Slumlord. Peace, Shelden
By Coach J
June 13, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
We definitely need a post player. We ranked in the bottom 3 in rebounding for the last 5 years. It’s is time to get someone who can play in the paint.
Marvin Williams, Josh Childress, Josh Smith are all Small Forwards. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. Shelden Williams is not a starter and will be a career back up even though he works hard at his game. He is just undersized and not too athletic. See…Corliss Williamson, Robert Traylor. The Hawks need a Power Forward, Point Guard, or a Center.
The point guards are far from spectacular this year. There are no Deron Williams or Chris Pauls in this draft.
Mile Conley, Jr is not going to picked at #3 and from my league sources and is dropping between to 7-10 pick. He is a great athlete but should not be considered the next star point. Think Rumeal Robinson. I think everyone knows what happened with his career.
Brandan Wright has great size and potential but the weight thing really worries me. He is at least two years away from really developing. I think he is going to a premier Power Forward? Center when it is all said and done. He wasn’t a top 3 High School Player for nothing. But the Hawks are not in a position to sit and wait.
My recommendation would be to draft Al Horford at # 3 who is a legit Power. 6-10 245. He has been dominant in workouts and has had a great college career. I think easily he will be a top 3 Power Forward in the Eastern Conference.
At #11 I would draft Acie Law. I think he has a nice game and couldn’t be anymore consistent at Texas A&M. He is 6-3 so he can guard the bigger points. Plus he is a 4 year Senior so he is NBA ready.
Just my thoughts.
By tp
June 13, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this
Sekou,
What’s your opinion about Wright and his solo workouts? Conley and Horford are apparently doing the same thing, but they aren’t taking any heat for it.
By Hatertots
June 13, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this
Sekou,
Is it significant that Horford and Conley Jr are the last players that the Hawks are working out?
By mountain_jim
June 13, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this
Anakin Joe is on the right track…
Yi to save the franchise (money-wise and visibility-wise), Critt for the future PG, and trade Chill and a PG and change for a defensive Big.
Do not mortgage the future and drain off assets trading for Gasol. (Unless he demands a trade and his cost to acquire comes way down from.)
By G Money
June 13, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this
If we believe that Speedy is serviceable (and I don’t), it would make more sense to draft a bigger guard who won’t get pushed around by the likes of Chauncy, Deron, Kidd and others. It may make the most sense anyway given the numerous 5’11” guys we have already. The choice would be Critt at 11 if we could get him or trade the pick and get a Ridnour or Jack. At least I could follow the logic.
Nonetheless, I am sold on the gamble for Yi. If Yi turns out to be Yikes, then I know that BK will never hear the end of it. If Yi turns out to be Yes! and we don’t pick him, BK will never hear the end of it.
Conley at 3 is the safe choice that most everyone could feel good about and know that he’s helping the team. If Critt has that much potential, then maybe him at 11 is a good move with Yi at 3. I do hear what you’re saying Sekou about Pavel. The scouting on Yi should have started months ago; however if we had an inkling that we might take him. Obviously BK does his homework early (ala Shelden). So he pretty well knows what he’s going to do. My only problem is that I don’t see Brandon Wright as being that much different than what we already have. What makes him a better choice than Yi? Why wouldn’t we trade up to get Yi and Conley or Wright and Conley? Nobody’s talking about that.
By David Stern
June 13, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this
With the third pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, the Atlanta Hawks select: Jeff Green - SF/PF - Georgetown
With the 11th pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, the Atlanta Hawks select: Zoran Erceg - PF/C - Zeleznic Beograd
Another great day for Billy Knight and YOUR Atlanta Hawks.
By newkid
June 13, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this
AJ, I think you’re spot on with your observations regarding Georgia’s interest in China. The great news is I think the interest is mutual. About 4-6 months back (in a post about Yi) I posted an article here from a newspaper in Florida where a major diplomat from the People’s Republic of China talked about how exciting he thought business prospects were in Georgia. If the basketball decision is even remotely close, the huge business opportunities (not just for the Hawks, but for Georgia and China) will make Yi a no-brainer pick for the Spirit. And with the infrequency with which these sorts of ‘accidental’ good business fortunes occur, it’s a really good bet that the Atlanta (and Georgia) business community is actively urging the ASG to be aggressive about drafting and signing Yi. The only potential blockage on the horizon is Seattle.
By Anakin Joe
June 13, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this
Sekou, my whole point with Yi and the links is that unless there is something that significantly happens with the financial support for this franchise, a .500 season is highly unlikely, let alone titles. Seems like drafting Yi will be equivalent to finding a silent sugar daddy with fat pockets for the eventual owner.
By Anakin Joe
June 13, 2007 12:33 PM | Link to this
Sekou, my whole point with Yi and the links is that unless there is something that significantly happens with the financial support for this franchise, a .500 season is highly unlikely, let alone titles. Seems like drafting Yi will be equivalent to finding a silent sugar daddy with fat pockets for the eventual owner.
By G Money
June 13, 2007 12:34 PM | Link to this
Seattle wouldn’t do that and leave Durant for us. Our luck isn’t that good. But what if…
By St. Bernard
June 13, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
Sekou, Was the article on Wright just written to gauge the reaction of people????
Also, can Critt shoot (didn’t watch him much)???
I just think a wise GM gets the players he wants and a little more with the situation that we’re in. We’ll see what BK does, because it’s more and more obvious that everyone here has already made their minds up.
By Sekou K. Smith
June 13, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this
Solo workouts mean nothing to me. The players in the greatest demand can set it up however they want. Not only is Yi working out solo, he’s making teams come to him. That in itself would infuriate me if I were a GM or team prez or owner. Oden’s not making Portland and Seattle come to him.
But the nature of the workouts themselves is irrelevant for certain players. I don’t know what else a guy like Horford can do to show you he can play. He’s played all the way to two straight NCAA titles games. if you have any lingering questions, I don’t know what to tell you.
And no, I don’t think there is anything that should be read into who works out when and against who. Wright’s decision to work out solo doesn’t change my opinion about him at all (he could be all world in couple of years, but if I need help Oct. 30, I might have to go in a different direction). But in the end, it’s all just a matter of finding the days that work for all of the different schedules you’re dealing with.
That said, I think we can all agree that nothing beats a workout with the best players at whatever position group going going heads up for a good hour in drills and scrimmage situations.
By G Money
June 13, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this
Anakin Joe, I’ve said the same thing before. Let’s right the financial ship of the Hawks so that we can go after some free agents in ‘08 (like those on our team who’ll be coming up for free agency) in addition to others. Yi can certainly help do that. But we must land a pretty good guard to get him and the rest of the team the ball (hint: hint Conley)
By J
June 13, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
Regardless on who gets picked, I’m excited about the opportunity this year to make some ground. I don’t care what you nay-sayers, bandwagoners have to say … this is a huge step for the Atlanta Hawks!
By newkid
June 13, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this
G Money, a very wise person on this board once encouraged us to ‘follow the money’. I wouldn’t be taken aback at all to find out that the fine business community in Seattle and the state of Oregon are having lunch and dinner meetings over the past few weeks to discuss just this issue of whether to re-visit their ‘new arena’ talks with the Seattle franchise if only the Sonics were to select Yi in the draft. This kid (and his national heritage) could blow away what Lebron’s done for the value of the Cleveland franhise over the past 3+ years (+~$158 million according to ABC Sports).
By DS
June 13, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this
Why don’t we trade for Pau and draft his brother Marc?
While the Braves have a fan base of Frenchy’s Franks and McCann’s Cans, the Hawks could have Gasols’ Gassholes. I can see the advertisements now.
By G Money
June 13, 2007 12:51 PM | Link to this
Sekou, I totally agree. The scouting process isn’t a two month deal. As I understand it, scouting goes on a year or two in advance. Progress is tracked, and decisions are made on a cumulative body of information. Am I right about that? Who are the scouts for the Hawks?
By G Money
June 13, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this
Newkid, You punctuate another reason why Yi should be taken. At the end of the day, this is a business. I don’t care what BK said, the reason we didn’t pull the trigger on free agency was in part due to money and the lawsuit. Let’s hope we can at least get the lawsuit behind us so that we can make decisions that would really drive the value of the franchise up because we’d be winning. That puts butts in seats and ad dollars in suites.
By Coach J
June 13, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this
Sekou,
Great Article today on the workouts! I think Wright, Horford, and Conley are all smart by working out solo but it is going to make the Hawks Review process even that more difficult. It is very disappointing.
At least the Hawks coaches will be able to run drills that they would like to see these players go through and evauluate them on more personal basis.
They are going to have to rely mostly on past game film.
Options: I still stand by my statement.
1) Al Horford at #3 and Acie Law at # 11 if we keep the picks.
Or trade # 11 and anyone of our small forwards(besides Josh Smith) for a Veteran Point Guard
I really don’t see the Hawks keeping both picks.
As for your trades the other day.
No way would I take Gasol. He is on the last leg of his career. He is VERY injury prone. (only played in 59 games last year and 56 two years before that).
Kevin Garnett and Amare Stoudamire would be amazing in Atlanta but it would never happen. The T-Wolves would ask for too much and the Suns would never give up Amare, who was first team All-NBA. But stranger things have happened. I would have never guessed Mutumbo would have signed here back in the day.
Al Horford at #3 Acie Law at #11 or trade the pick
Just my thoughts.
By tp
June 13, 2007 1:06 PM | Link to this
Great points Sekou.
Personally, I think Horford is Knight’s man. It wouldn’t surprise me to see us drop down a pick or two (or three), pick up a veteran PG and/or big and take him lower down.
By rexhawk
June 13, 2007 1:18 PM | Link to this
Sekou,
We need info from the players. Although it is irrelevant, who do they like in this draft. Billy stated that several players called him after the lottery with their opinions. It has already been reported that JJ is high on YI. Do the hawks feel that Hortford or Conley players
By terrell barron
June 13, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this
I JUST READ IN THE MEMPHIS APPEAL THAT THE GRIZZLIES REALLY LIKE CONLEY. IF WE WANT HIM WE BETTER TAKE HIM. IF WE DONT TAKE HIM AT THREE, THE ONLY WAY WE MAY BE ABLE TO GET HIM IS THROUGH MEMPHIS. THEN WE WOULD BE FORCED TO GIVE UP SOMETHING FOR HIM.
By Want to be a Hawks fan
June 13, 2007 1:27 PM | Link to this
The safest (and probably best) thing the Hawks can do is take Horford at #3 and use the #11 to take Law, Crittendon, or trade it for someone like J. Jack. Horford is a true PF (unlike S. Williams) and is probably more NBA ready than any other player that will be available. I’m really impressed with Conley and I think he’ll be a good NBA point, but he is too risky to take at #3.
By diehardhawkfan
June 13, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this
http://www.sportsline.com/nba/stats/teamsort/regularseason/yearly/NBA/ASTTO
I provided a link to what might be the most underrated statistic in basketball: assist-to-turnover ratio. 14 of the top 15 teams with the highest assist to turnover ratio made the playoffs. 11 of the bottom 12 didn’t make the playoffs.
Bottom line is we need better ball handlers, penetrators, and decision-makers. We need more offensive continuity…our offensive skill players need to be in better positions to score the basketball…take the guy with the highest basketball IQ and the guy who makes the least amount of mistakes in the draft and watch our offense improve drastically next year.
By terrell barron
June 13, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this
TP, THERE’S A GOOD CHANCE HORFORD OR CONLEY WILL BE GONE AT 4, AND BILLY SHOULD KNOW THIS, SO I THINK WE WILL DRAFT EITHER HORFORD OR CONLEY WITH THE 3RD PICK,THATS IF WE KEEP IT. WE MIGHT TRADE IT FORE VETERAN HELP OR SOMETHING, BUT I DONT THINK WE WILL BE TRADING DOWN. NOW WE MIGHT TRADE UP OR DOWN WITH THE 11, WHICH MAKES MORE SENSE IF YOU ASK ME.
By Dap
June 13, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this
Sekou, we keep hearing “BK made trade the pick for veteran help”. Has there been any rumors of who that veteran help might be? Any names with higher ceilings than the picks have?
By terrell barron
June 13, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this
WHY COULDNT WE HAVE ENDED UP WITH THE 5TH OR 6TH PICK INSTEAD OF THE 3RD. THE 3RD PICK MAKES IT EASIER FOR BILLY TO FAIL. AT LEAST IF WE WERE AT 5 OR 6 WE COULD TAKE YI,CONLEY,HORFORD, OR WRIGHT. WHOEVER IS STILL ON THE BOARD. I KNOW THIS MIGHT SOUND CRAZY, BUT THIS IS HOW I LOOK AT IT. DO YOU TRUST BILLY TO MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION BASED ON WHAT HE’S SEEN IN WORKOUTS OR WHATEVER? I DON’T!
By tp
June 13, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this
Terrell,
Question of the day: Who would you trust more with our picks - BK or Pete Babcock?
One caveat: you cannot answer none of the above!
By TCM
June 13, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this
With the 3rd overall pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, the Atlanta Hawks select……JAVARIS CRITTENDEN*, p/g Ga Tech Univ…….
With the 11th pick in the 2007 NBA Draft, the Atlanta Hawks select, LUCAS MCNAMARA* center Montana Commonwealth Univ……….
By Nookah
June 13, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this
Yesterday I said we should go with Yi at #3. I still stand by that. I also stated that whatever we think is quite irrelevant. BK has made his mind up. Based on what SS implied about scouting being done long ago, I know BK will not be swayed. My only hope is that Yi can play with his back to the basket and will rebound. If he can’t do that now I hope we get someone who can, either through the draft or free agency. I honestly think we are not far away from the playoffs but the question is how far away are we from a title? Remember this is a do or die draft as we have no first round pick next year. Our only hope is to pick up a diamond in the 2nd round next year. So this has got to be the year that BK gets it right. I am really concerned about our coaching though. I am not convinced Woodson is able to coach according to the competencies of the talent we have. My impression is that he is schooled in the half-court offense and he cannot adapt to anything else. I really hope he proves me wrong this year. Length, speed and athletic ability tells me we have to run. What are our chances of getting Noah with the #11 and something else? Say what you want about Noah but he is a winner who will bring a lot of vibes and a winning attitude to the Hawks and will supply some energy on the court.
When all is said and done I trust BK will make the right choices that will help to make the Hawks relevant again.
I am still awaiting some feedback on the status of ownership and the court case. SS please supply me with some info.
Nuff respect!!! GO HAWKS!!!
By mavid
June 13, 2007 2:21 PM | Link to this
Guys, Stuckey really is the darkhorse.
Can’t believe I forgot about him. Here is a kid who has lead a team, and did so effectively. Him and law are the most NBA ready, but he is more talented IMO. From what I’ve heard, if he had gone to a bigger school he’s EASILY the first pg taken in the draft (even though he is more of Arenas or Gordon type combo guard).
Apparently the guy was quite effective as a facilitator in college too. He can score, he can pass, and he has some size.
Good of the front office to give him a look. He very well may be the guy (I’m not saying he IS, but he definately deserves consideration).
I wouldn’t be mad with us taking him. Rumor is he’s going to Detroit at 15 anyways.
Horford or Yi at 3
This is what comforts me about Yi
“Yao Ming’s success in the NBA has been based, in large part, on his amazing mental toughness. The demands placed upon him, on the court and off, are unique and exhausting. Can Yi handle the same stresses and strains, the weight of the world?Yi already has the Chinese media camped at his doorstep. In China, 14-year-old girls scream for him on the streets. An entire nation is waiting to see if he can fill the footprints of a national icon.It’s heavy stuff.Two days weren’t enough to learn everything about Yi, but what I saw was an individual who amazed me with the speed with which he adapted to the U.S. and the NBA way of life. That process has taken years for Yao Ming.Yi already conducts interviews and conversations in English, meaning he won’t need an interpreter following him and translating his every utterance. He takes English classes every night to improve, but his skill is already pretty impressive.Yi is already independent. He drives on his own in L.A., finds his own restaurants and hits the nightlife, including red-carpet walks for the movie premieres of “Spider-Man 3” and “Shrek 3.” He listens to hip-hop music and jokes around with American players. He plays video games and dresses like a young star, with the requisite Sean John jeans and Jumpman shirt. The decision by his agent, Dan Fegan, to bring Yi to the U.S. early so he could get acclimated before training camp should pay off big on the court, too. His daily workouts include lessons from NBA players and a former NBA assistant coach on what he can and can’t get away with in the league.When the 2007-08 season comes around, Yi will have a big head start in the acculturation process. He’s already comfortable, it seems, with a life full of basketball, media appearances and travel.He also has a sense of humility about the whole thing, with great respect for Yao.”
By Greg
June 13, 2007 2:27 PM | Link to this
just read on hawksquawk a rumor that is floating around. Hawks deal #3 pick to Buck for #6 and Villanueva.
Not sure how much I like that or dislike it. What are my fellow bloggers thoughts on this “rumored” deal?
By mountain_jim
June 13, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this
Terrell, why do you feel the need to shout?
I agree that BK may take Horford at 3 or trade the pick, but he’s already said he’s not taking a PG at 3 so you can forget about Conley at 3.
I liked Horford at 3 but I have changed to the Yi train. If we trade Shell then Horford is more likely the pick as they are fairly similar type players.
I know if I was the ASG I would be demanding Yi for financial reasons and if a vet PG such as Jack is gotten with the 11 then I can understand that but hope a later 1st this year or next also comes with him.
By terrell barron
June 13, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this
LETS SEE TP, IN MY OPINION BABCOCKS BEST PICK WAS JASON TERRY AT 10. HIS WORSE PICK HAD TO BE KONKAK, PLUS HE TRADED NIQUE FOR “BAD KNEES” DANNY MANNING. I THINK KNIGHTS BEST PICK HAS BEEN JOSH SMITH AT 18. HIS WORSE PICK IS A TIE BETWEEN J-CHILL AT 6, MARVIN AT 2 AND SHELDON AT 5. YOU SAID I COULDN’T CHOOSE NONE OF THE ABOVE, SO I GUESS ILL HAVE TO GO WITH THE MAN WITH THE FRO. SCARY
By TCM
June 13, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this
BK is an idiot when it comes to running the Hawks & evaluating talent & what will work for this roster. Many of you might not agree but the Hawks are exaclty what they are, a bad organization. They have been pathetic all these years and will just continue to do so. In sports you have franchises that “get it”, and franchises that don’t. Unfortunately for us fans, your Atlanta Hawks as a front office don’t. There is no use in putting up a fuss about what that idiot in charge is going to do because he’s been put in place and allowed to keep his job by an organization who just doesn’t get it.
The Atlanta Hawks from head to toe have just been historically bad & if you don’t believe that look at the Hawks draft picks over the last 10 years…..RASHAWN MCCLEOD
By tp
June 13, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Other Babcock “All-Stars”:
Roshawn McLeod, Ed Gray, Doug Edwards, Priest Lauderdale, Cal Bowdler, Hanno Mottola
By Anakin Joe
June 13, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
Greg, I’m a fan of Villanueva. But I have to wonder why 2 teams would trade a 6’11” player with Rasheed-type skills after only 1 year. Where there’s smoke…
By terrell barron
June 13, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
GREG, WHAT IS HIS NATURAL POSITION
By mavid
June 13, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this
…there’s a giant hairless man? ZING!
By Curly Neil
June 13, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this
Villanueva ain’t the only baller who’s hairless baby!
By TCM
June 13, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
BK is an idiot when it comes to running the Hawks & evaluating talent & what will work for this roster. Many of you might not agree but the Hawks are exaclty what they are, a bad organization. They have been pathetic all these years and will continue to be. In sports you have franchises that “get it”, and franchises that don’t. Unfortunately for us fans, your Atlanta Hawks as a front office don’t. There is no use in putting up a fuss about what that idiot in charge is going to do because he’s been put in place and allowed to keep his job by an organization thatjust doesn’t get it.
The Atlanta Hawks from head to toe have been historically bad & if you don’t believe me look at the Hawks draft picks over the last 10 years. Imagine some of the “busters” that have graced, or I should say “wasted” uniforms and cap space here: Travis Mays, Ken “Stormin” Norman, Douglas Edwards, Snoop Graham, Blair Rasmussen, Adam Keefe(a waste for the Hawks), Stacey Augmon, JR Rider, Jim Les, Donny Boyce, Roshawn Mcleod, Clyde Bradshaw, Roy Marble, and the list goes on and on and on…..
I truly believe the Hawks will never “get it”, much less get it right. They are just a terrible organization throughout from the front office to the roster to the game day experience, to the halftime show, the cheerleaders, pa announcer, pre-game graphics, all of it/them. They don’t even know how to honor the one legitmate “hall-of-famer” they were lucky enough to have as part of the Hawk family, and I don’t need to mention his name. What a waste of an NBA franchise………….
By diehardhawkfan
June 13, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
greg, bucks like mike conley, so do the grizzlies…if the hawks pass over conley, then the grizzlies would take him at 4…hawks could still get their guy (maybe yi) at 6, bucks would get their guy conley at 3.
By terrell barron
June 13, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this
TCM, PLEAS DONT MAKE ME LOOK AT THE PAST TEN YEARS OF HAWKS DRAFTS, I ALREADY HAVE A HEADACHE. AS FOR RESHAWN MCCLEOD, WHO BY THE WAY BRINGS HIS DAUGHTER TO MY MY WIFE’S DENTAL OFFICE, SAID HE WAS ABLE TO RETIRE IN GOOD HANDS, THANKS TO THE HAWKS GENEROSITY. HE WAS A FIRST RDR. CAN YOU BELEIVE THAT SH.T?
By TCM
June 13, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this
terrell barron, hahahahahaahahahahaahaha
By Ricardo
June 13, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this
Greg -
Thanks for the rumor.
I like the deal if it happened. At #6 we could probably get whoever we would have chosen at #3 anyways, so Villinuava (bad spelling!!!) becomes a freebie, so to speak and you still have the 2 picks to address your PG and center. If Vill. is a bad guy or whatever you deal with it, but make no mistake - he is a heck of a lot better than S. Williams. Now that I think about it, S Williams is kind of a poor man’s version of Vill. anyways. I’d do it.
By j-rock
June 13, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this
If the Hawks draft Yi or Horford will they start.If so,once again another forward will be drafted and minutes will be taken from M.Williams and J-Smoove.Don’t get me wrong,I like Yi and Horford.But we can’t keep ignoring the need for a true center and young point guard.The good news however is if we do draft Yi or horford the Hawks will have more assets to trade at the trading deadline if they are close to making a playoff run.Horford reminds me of a more physical and athletic Shelden Williams.I can’t properly assess Yi’s game because of his level of competition.He will put the Hawks on national television and make them relevent as far as revenue is concerned.
As for point guard,Mr. Knight has to make the right decision here.If speedy is there starter then it will make drafting Crittenton very likely.My problem is I am not a fan of speedy.I would rather trade him.If Jack is there man I would then trade #11 and speedy for Jack and Pryzbilla.As for Law,he is the hardest one for me to assess.He has skills but is he Jason Terry or Eddie House.If he is JT like then you can get away with him at the point.But if he is eddie house then we don’t need another streak scorer who does not handle the ball(Salim Stoudamire).This is the biggest draft ever for Billy Knight.Get it right or get gone.Go Hawks!!!!
By Greg
June 13, 2007 3:14 PM | Link to this
terrell baron, he is F avg. 12-13 pts game avg. 6 rbs game
Anakin Joe, sounds like you like his skills. Im all for it were targeting a player we can still get at the #6 slot. But Im sure there will be lots of deals to pick from if we decide to move down between now and the draft.
By mountain_jim
June 13, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
Me thinks Yi won’t last past Celtics at 5. If Hawks trade back to 6 it might be for Conley but please not for Wright. Please.
By steve
June 13, 2007 3:19 PM | Link to this
Brandon Wright is a joke.
And to the people in all CAPS…do you realize that nobody reads your posts? This is 2007 and we still have blithering fools posting in all caps.
Congrats to all the CAP dinosaurs.
By j-rock
June 13, 2007 3:30 PM | Link to this
If the Hawks draft Yi or Horford will they start.If so,once again another forward will be drafted and minutes will be taken from M.Williams and J-Smoove.Don’t get me wrong,I like Yi and Horford.But we can’t keep ignoring the need for a true center and young point guard.The good news however is if we do draft Yi or horford the Hawks will have more assets to trade at the trading deadline if they are close to making a playoff run.Horford reminds me of a more physical and athletic Shelden Williams.I can’t properly assess Yi’s game because of his level of competition.He will put the Hawks on national television and make them relevent as far as revenue is concerned.
As for point guard,Mr. Knight has to make the right decision here.If speedy is there starter then it will make drafting Crittenton very likely.My problem is I am not a fan of speedy.I would rather trade him.If Jack is there man I would then trade #11 and speedy for Jack and Pryzbilla.As for Law,he is the hardest one for me to assess.He has skills but is he Jason Terry or Eddie House.If he is JT like then you can get away with him at the point.But if he is eddie house then we don’t need another streak scorer who does not handle the ball(Salim Stoudamire).This is the biggest draft ever for Billy Knight.Get it right or get gone.Go Hawks!!!!
By TCM
June 13, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this
you guys are wasting time trying to evaluate what the idiot is going to…. BK is going to screw it up!!!
By wtf
June 13, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this
These are the only players we are working out? We have the 3rd and the 11th pick in the draft and this is all we want to evaluate? Mark it down, BK will blow this. There is no doubt in my mind this guy will find a way to screw it up. The first pick would have been so much easier, less room for error for BK but then again it is BK. I dont even think workouts mean much to BK. Like someone said earlier he probably has in his mind who he wants to draft anyway much like last year. He worked out Marcus Williams, Foye, and Rondo last year knowing he would be taking Sheldon Williams the whole time. When we have two picks in the top 15 we have to bring in more players to get a better idea of who we want in my opinion. I do realize that the scouting process has been going on for a long time but when BK brother is a scout I guess it doenst matter how long you have been scouting. Is there anyway we can lock BK in a closet the day of the draft and let a stunt double make the picks that D Wilkens or the owners want. As far as Yi. He might be good he might be bad but I doubt people will come to the games just because he is on our team. More people in China might watch the games and buy merchandise but I doubt attendance changes unles this sorry team starts winning. Houston had Yao and T Mac and still had bad attendance..http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/attendance
By B.K.
June 13, 2007 3:49 PM | Link to this
I talked to Coach K last night and he told me that Josh McRoberts practices hard and would make a great pro.
Your Truly,
Billy
By TCM
June 13, 2007 3:53 PM | Link to this
exactly, BK is going to screw this up……..and with the 3rd overall pick of the 2007 NBA Draft, the Atlanta Hawks select…….JAVARIS CRITTENDEN p/g Ga Tech……….
By Samuel I AM
June 13, 2007 4:01 PM | Link to this
Sekou and the rest of you check this out. If you thought the Josh Smith rumors were crazy. Check this out.
http://realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=672681&highlight=
Here is my main problem with all of you who want Conely Jr. Everyone on here know we gotta come away in this draft with a big and pg. There is only one good true C in this draft. Rest of them are PF/C type players. The dropoff of bigs is big after Yi/Horford/Noah/Wright/Hawes. All of whom are lock for the top-10. The PG dropoff from Conely to Law/Crit/Rodney is not that big. This draft is very heavy weighted toward the Bigs. Hawks need to take one whether it is Horford or my favorite Yi.
Another problem I have with the people wanting Conely is the double standards they take. They are willing to pass up a Horford or Yi at 3 for Conely. Then come back with take BPA at 11. Everyone on here know all too well who will be at 11. Yes everyone you guessed it. That position many people have bash Billy Knight so much for drafting. It will be a 6’7/6’8 SG/SF or SF/PF. Another word a player just like Childress,Marvin, and Smith. Whereas with Yi he could fall in that category of another PF/SF player. HERE IS THE DIFFERENCE. He is 7’0/245 and only 20 years old. The guy has the skills of a guard and can play like a big man. He has got Dirk or Gasol written all over him. The Conely people say he can’t play Center in order to justify not drafting him. NEWS FLASH PEOPLE. There is no true Center in this draft outside of Oden.
Let get a legit 7’0 PF on this team. Then move Shelden as BK said to Center where he is better suited. Then you start a forward rotation of Josh Smith and Marvin williams and Yi jianlian. We can’t have Josh and Marvin playing 40+ mpg. Who cares if Marvin or Yi come off the bench. They will still get their playing time. Some how people think if you are not a starter you are a bust or don’t have any value. I think Childress change that up.
In conclusion Draft Yi and take the best PG prospect at 11 or trade it for Jack as rumor.
Option #1
PG-Law/Speedy/Lue/AJ SG-JJ/Chill/Salim SF-Smith/Marvin PF-Yi/Solomon C-Shelden/Zaza/Wright
That is just a base of what a good team we could have. It is more balance. We won’t have to put the wear and tear on the starters as Woodson does. The depth of the team will be very solid. That my friends is a team with balance and depth. Or we could just go this way.
Option #2
PG-Conely/Speedy/Lue/AJ SG-JJ/Chill SF-Marvin/Thorton PF-Smith/Solomon C-Shelden/Zaza/Wright
Choose which one you like. Just my opinion here. Option #2 will land the Suns a very good draft pick in next year draft. Option #1 will land us in the playoffs. All of you who want Conely so badly despite the fact he isn’t ready to run a team. Enjoy watching the Suns get an elite player in next year draft with our pick being in the top-4.
By diehardhawkfan
June 13, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
Wow, that’s exactly the same scenerio I envisioned…I think the Hawks want Yi and Conley…I figured they would go after Boston for their number 5
By Greg
June 13, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this
no way I would ever do that deal with the Celts for JJ. That to me is just one of those crazy rumors floating around during this time of year. Remember what we gave up for JJ? TWO #1’s, and Diaw. I would suspect IF we were to deal JJ (which I am sure we are not) it would take a much better package.
By Greg
June 13, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this
no way I would ever do that deal with the Celts for JJ. That to me is just one of those crazy rumors floating around during this time of year. Remember what we gave up for JJ? TWO #1’s, and Diaw. I would suspect IF we were to deal JJ (which I am sure we are not) it would take a much better package.
By Greg
June 13, 2007 4:31 PM | Link to this
no way I would ever do that deal with the Celts for JJ. That to me is just one of those crazy rumors floating around during this time of year. Remember what we gave up for JJ? TWO #1’s, and Diaw. I would suspect IF we were to deal JJ (which I am sure we are not) it would take a much better package.
By diehardhawkfan
June 13, 2007 4:41 PM | Link to this
Samuel I am, you just made our point on why we should draft conley at 3. There’s only one true C, oden, and one true PG, conley. There is a HUGE drop off after oden…there is also a HUGE drop off after conley. law is NOT a true pg and crit has poor decision making and game management skills. Horford, Yi, Noah, Wright, etc are all PF’s and not C’s. But, just like you said, this draft is DEEP in big man and weak in guards. You go with the only true point guard in the draft, one of the two areas that you need help. Then pick up the big, the draft is deep with bigs..one of those bigs that you listed will be there at 11.
By Orlando Rivera
June 13, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this
Joe, we Wizards fans would love to have another one come aboard…at least this way you get to enjoy a competitive team with a competent coach and GM (especially if they get Zach Randolph they will rule the East next year)…. …but since this is all about the Hawks I have to say that Atlanta needs to begin focusing on depth and long term progress. What a lot of you don’t seem to understand is that this team is coached by Mike Woodson, who obviously went to the same school of mismanagement that Cavs coach Mike Brown attended. Woodson lacks the ability to coach veteran PGs, what do you think he’ll do with a rookie like Conley? He won’t have the patience it takes to develop Conley, nor will he have a job by the time Conley becomes a player in this league…
That being said, Knight will draft Yi and then AC Law or Crittendon since he likes those bigger guards. BK is all about those hybrid players right Sekou?
Here’s another idea that you people need to put to rest: There will be no trades whatsoever! Think about it, who in their right mind would want Shelden Williams, Marvin Williams, Josh Childress, Salim, or anyone on this roster not named Joe Johnson or Josh Smith? NO ONE, that’s who! Also, since this is a team that is not in the running for a star such as KG the only way to make a buzz is with the players they have here. Drafting Yi will be a stretch since he’s really nothing more than a 7 foot SF but at worst he’ll get some hype for this team. Face it for the past 13 years this franchise has been known for 3 things:
1) trading their franchise player while having the best record in the Eastern Conference.
2)drafting Marvin Williams instead of Chris Paul
3)an ownership battle that will not end in any of our lifetimes
Face it, BK knows this year is his last and knows that he has a chance to build an entire team capable of one day becoming a force. Drafting Conley at this stage to satisfy the media would be a mistake. Even if Yi and Law/Crittendon don’t become Duncan/ Parker at least there will be enough depth on this team to be very good offensively and on the boards.
Now only if we could trade Mike Woodson away then i’d be happy.
By terrell barron
June 13, 2007 4:45 PM | Link to this
Steve, why are you critisizing us for grammar man? We ar all just Hawks fans talking about the draft. Im just looking for opinions, not spelling errors, all caps and bulls.it like that. It’s still all good though. For each his own.
By Samuel I AM
June 13, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this
It is funny the Celtics used to be a proud team and so were their fans. Now the team is a disgrace. Sadly to say their fanbase is a disgrace and a joke now for believing such garbage.
By Ryder
June 13, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this
Greg, we got your point the first time lol. J/k, Atlanta’s not trading JJ or Josh Smith, everyone else though should become cannon fodder if BK chooses.
I’d hate to be in BK’s shoes right now with all the pressure he’s facing. I’m going to go out on faith and believe that he will draft/trade/ acquire whomever is best for this team in the long run. I can’t speak anymore on this issue, it’s wearing me out just thinking about possibilities…see you all in two weeks! GO HAWKS!
By Volman
June 13, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this
Guys, that deal with Boston has GOT to be bogus.
I wouldn’t trust a guy who can’t use the correct form of ‘there’, ‘their’, or ‘they’re’. (look at his post) I just wouldn’t trust it.
Joe Johnson would have to cost a LOT to another team in order to move him.
By Nookah
June 13, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this
Come on guys!!! Do you really think Gerald Green & #5 would be swapped for JJ? You must all be crazy to even think that BK would entertain that discussion. Only unless it came with three #1’s and cash - lots of it!!!!
However, on a serious note we should not have even have dignified this with “blogtime”.
Mark my words…..BK will be vindicated. Just not sure it will be with Woodson. Perhaps last year was the “tipping point” and all the good karma started with the 2 #1’s this year!!!
Nuff Respect!! GO HAWKS!!!
Say all you want about BK, an idiot he is not!!!
By doc
June 13, 2007 5:29 PM | Link to this
sam i am goos to hear back form you. i dooo like the idea of making sheldon into the five back up. cant/wont do as poorly as the previous guy at that spot and it will open the way for another real power forward type to come in.
as more info about yi comes in the more i am impressed by him. i thought conley and oden were emotionally prepared for the next step but it seems that yi has gone it that much further than most at 20 and is showing a serious and ambitious side about him that not many kids his age would have. he will be the face of whatever organization that gets him, he is the real deal and if he does come in you make the move to make space for him with sheldon spending most of his time at 5.
unfortunately, because yi has star written all over him, i still wouldnt be surprised if he wasnt there at three. say durant is there at three, then do you grab him as the outside shooter and do the thing with boston, send jj and change (a point and rens) get five/conley with green, then pick up the last big man standing?
By Mitch
June 13, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this
Ok…let’s get this straight…once and for all…RIGHT NOW.
We drafted Marvin Williams in lieu of drafting two premier point guards in Deron Williams and Chris Paul….
And we drafted Williams when we were pretty well set at forward and had a glaring need at point guard.
Them last year, in light of already having a starting PF in Josh Smith (whose shot blocking par excellence demands that he play in the paint)…when again what the team really neede was a defensive center and a penetrating point guard.
Now…the talk is to once gain bypass the best point guard in the draft to take yet another forward.
This is ludicrous.
Don’t even try to tell me that at #11 we can get a difference maker at point guard in A.C. Law or Tavaris Crittendon. Law is a 2 guard in a point guard’s clothing…and Crittendon is so raw, he’s at least two years away from being a starter. Yes, his talent is intriguing…but, please…
Mike Conley is exactly EVERYTHING the Hawks need ina starting point guard: he’s fast, he’s a pentetrator deluxe, he’s quicker than a cat on defense and gets his hands on a ton of balls…AND he’s a fast break layup or dish slam dunk waiting to happen.
Then there’s a shot blocking center in this draft who is lights-out…Sean Williams of BC, who got busted smoking reefer and skipping classes at BC…
Williams, who will not be problem child in the NBA, is exactly what the Hawks need (beyond a classic point guard): an intimidating presence in the paint, where they have been hammered ad nauseum for the past five years…
Adding a shot blocker of Williams’ ilk would allow the conservative Hawks to overplay the passing lanes and play all out defense, knowing there’s immediate help in the paint. That help the past few years has been Zaza Pachulia in cement shoes. Sorry…but…
This draft is a NO BRAINER. Conley at #3 and Williams at #11. Forget about all other scenarios…none of them make any sense whatsoever.
By jecorey901
June 13, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this
the hawks will pick YI with the third pick let me tell you why. anyone remember that about a month ago the mayor of ATLANTA went to CHINA to try to get them to bring business to our city? this deal went down months ago. what better way than to bring their star to the A. you can congratulate me later
By BCD
June 13, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this
Here’s what I hear is going to happen. Seattle wants Yi badly for all of the obvious reasons. They have already leaked out that Durant had a bad workout. This gives them the out they need to make a move. They will switch spots with the Hawks plus get Seattle native Marvin Williams, allowing the Hawks to take Durant. Its a win-win, because even if we had gotten the #2 pick, we would have had to unload Marvin anyway. If BK is smart (he isn’t) he’ll get some other veteran in the deal. You heard it hear first.
By jecorey901
June 13, 2007 6:07 PM | Link to this
11 for jarrett jack to satisfy our point guard needsBy Mike The Mechanic
June 13, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this
If the Villanueva rumor is true, I would do that in a heartbeat. At 6, if Conley is gone, then I would take Hawes at 6, then crittenton at 11.
By Dekaturking
June 13, 2007 6:43 PM | Link to this
DekaturKing is back!!! The Hawks Are going to Draft Horford at 3 then Trade the 11 pick for Jack. Its a lame move but that’s what BK’s going to do. Me I draft Conley and trade 11 with speedy and wright for Corey M. from tne Clippers. It’s worth a shot anyway.
By ScoobySnacks
June 13, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this
With the very mention of Wright being invited, it’s all I can do not to put my house on the market and get the heck out of town. How dare the Hawks even mention this guys name? If we draft this Guy I guarantee we go 0 and 82 next year.For Christ sakes anybody but Brandan Wright!!!!!!!!!!!
By OddJob
June 13, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this
Rivera to say there wouldn’t be a market for Marvin,Childress or Shelden isn’t based on reality.Now if you question if we could get right value in return is another issue.jecory congratulations for your repeating what has been posted time after time by other bloggers.
By Jay
June 13, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this
First, I am shocked, SHOCKED that Knightmare isnt working out Corey Brewer. I figured Knightmare would be looking at him like a big juicy steak.
Second, I checked out that RealGM link and I am terrified and what I read. Trading the 3 for the 6 is ridiculous. I also saw a trade involving JJ for the Celts #5 pick and you know what? That wouldnt bother me.
By terrell barron
June 13, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this
Jay, he didn’t work out Sheldon, but he picked him anyway. So maybe he is thinking about Brewer. You never know
By cp
June 13, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
Mitch trust me it wont work no matter what you say . Me and a few other bloggers were basically saying the same thing about taking Conley at 3 but a lot of people are just against it. Taking Hortford at 3 to me is worse than YI. In my opinion Hortford is a pf not a center. The Hawks have to stop taking players and trying to play them at positions where it takes away from their game. I like Hortford but I just dont see where he helps this team. I dont understand either how we are working out so few players. Man it gets scarier and scarier as the draft approaches.
By ProfFish
June 13, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this
I’m traveling in Shanghai, China right now. From my eighth story balcony I can see about a dozen concrete basketball courts. From the time school ends until about midnight, every (unlighted) court is full. A couple American college kids with me who thought they had some game joined in and got absolutely hammered.
Getting to Yi and the comments above about business and basketball, there are 1.3 billion Chinese. Many of our inner city kids in the past have recognized that sports is one of their only tickets to fame and fortune, and so do the Chinese. They’re coming off these courts with talent, energy, and a desire that comes from a life filled with a lot more challenges than most of us will ever face.
Second issue, seems a lot of folks want to compare Brandon Wright to Josh Smith and Marvin Williams. I see a lot of differences. Someone can probably work out the exact numbers, but from appearances, if the three stood side by side and held their hands straight up, Brandon’s reach would be at least three inches higher than either, maybe even five. Added to his athleticism, he covers an extra six inches vertically and that is a lot.
Wright also plays around the basket, something Marvin never does, and Josh does only on defense when he’s interested. I think Wright already has better low post moves than any player on our roster (admittedly no great accomplishment) and has a lot of room to improve. I think his immediate impact on the team will be greater than any of our picks in memory.
Don’t know where that leaves the Hawks, but I don’t think it makes sense to take someone who might be a good solid player (Horford, Conley) when you have a shot at two premiere big men. Work them, test them, and pick one with the #3.
By Steve B.
June 13, 2007 8:36 PM | Link to this
I know a lot of you want BK to fall, but anyone that thinks trading Marvin and #3 for #2 has lost it. We would need Swift and Luke included in that deal to even consider it. Next Marvin is only 20 and going into his third year, need I remind you Deng broke out in his third year. Last BK is married to Marvin unless the move is for A star. Yi at #3 and look at Minn spot if Conley is still their. If not Crit at #11 and throw so much money at Billups that he thinks it’s X-mas. Contract Front year loaded of course.
By jc
June 13, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this
Sekou - Please give us an update article on the Hawks ownership issues. Noah with the 3 and the best pg available with 11.
By GuyFromUruguay
June 13, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this
Look, at everybody hinting that the Supersonics won’t draft Durant: they WOULD have to move the franchise out of the city if they don’t. End of discussion.
I’ll be happy with anyone but Wright, but especially with Conley or Yi (assuming that the point guard business is dealt with the #11 or trade). Anyone we pick won’t magically add 10 more wins (a breakout year by Marvin or someone else, and better point guard play and a healthy Speedy might, though)
By ray
June 13, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this
Still stuck in first gear…
I love you “no brainer” types. Everything’s a “no brainer.”
Well, Sekou said some wild trade talk always comes up around these times of the year. That one on RealGm certainly qualifies.
By St. Bernard
June 13, 2007 9:47 PM | Link to this
If Mil wants to deal Vil and change spots I would do it for a couple reasons. First we get a 6”11 pf who scored 50 in his rookie year. If they want Yi, we get Conley. If they take Conley, you’ve still got a chance on Yi. How would this look: Villanueva, Yi, and Hawes or Critt. The reason I would pick all big guys is because if Milwaukee picks Conley, then we throw all the money available at Mo Williams. SOOOO…Here’s your line-up. pg-Mo Williams, Critt sg - JJ, Chilz sf - Marvin, Smith pf - Villanueva, Smith c - Zaza, Sheldon, Soloman
By St. Bernard
June 13, 2007 9:55 PM | Link to this
I like Conley, but I’ll take Mo Williams over him right now.
By mavid
June 13, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this
Mitch
Ive been hollerin about Sean Williams for awhile.
He brings exactly what we need at the 5.
BUT, you must understand it is not a no-brainer. Dude hasnt played competitively for over half a year now.
If we take him at 11 (which is a reach), and he backfires, BK is gonna have hell to pay.
Its just such a huge risk, but also a huge reward. It’s a tough pick to make.
By Ward
June 13, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this
I like the way you guys are thinking…well, most of you. However, many of you are not living in reality on what really makes sense or what can be done under the salary cap… I have done a lot of research on what makes sense to get rid of these incredible Amare, Kobe, and KG rumors…also, whatever idiot thinks we will trade 3 and JJ to the Celtic for 5 and Green please go back under the bridge and smoke your rock like a good burn-out moron…Oh yeah, I also asked my friend that works for a team in the league what he is hearing, which is this: The Hawks have an agreement in place with the Bulls. The Hawks trade 3, Shelden Williams, and Salim to the Bulls for 9, Duhon, and Tyrus Thomas… from there the Hawks are going to trade 9, Lue, and Childress to the Nuggets for Camby…With 11 the Hawks are looking at Hawes from Washington. That would give us the following line-up: 5- Camby/Zaza 4- Tyrus Thomas/Hawes 3- Josh Smith/Marvin Williams 2- Joe Johnson 1- Chris Duhon/Claxton
That is a 9 deep roster that can get this team in the playoffs next year.
By terrell barron
June 13, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this
I DO LIKE MO WILLIAMS
By Sope Creek
June 13, 2007 10:30 PM | Link to this
I like Conley, even at the 3, because of his exceptional physical attributes for his size (speed, length and standing jump) plus he understands the game exceptionally well. The best feature of his game that nobody seems to mention is his ability to use both hands with virtually equal skill in all aspects of the game, including shooting. His high school AAU coach in Indy seems to think that he’ll never see another PG like Conley, and that includes the immensely talented (but SG) Eric Gordon.
I’ve been thinking about packaging Marvin with the 11 to get the 5 from Boston. With the 3 I’d take Conley, then wait for either Horford or Yi at the 5.
It’d also be nice to figure out how to get a high 2nd round pick, which I’d hope to use for someone with size like a Morris Almond to back up Joe at the 2.
By Volman
June 13, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this
Ward, who is your “source”?
By Coach Clem
June 13, 2007 10:40 PM | Link to this
I just heard that the Hawks have a big deal in place (they would go ahead and execute, but have to make sure that Portland and Seattle don’t do something stupid 1st) that would overhaul the entire roster…its a 3-4 team trade where both picks Childress, Shelden, Salim, Wright, Johnson, and Lue are leaving town…coming here are Chris Duhon, Zach Randolph, Tyrus Thomas, and PJ Brown…If that is the case, I like it. Gaining those guys to a team that still has JJ, Josh Smith, ZaZa, Marvin, and Childress. Not bad, eh?
By Ward
June 13, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this
Volman, I cannot give you the name of my guy, but I can say that he is generally trustworthy and not steered me wrong in the past when speaking candidly…obviously things happen or things might not go down, but he said that was the Hawks plan for the summer
By Rumor
June 13, 2007 10:48 PM | Link to this
I hear the Hawks are trading #3 & # 11,Childress, Wright, and Lue to Portland for Randolph, Jack, and Webster.
By yea-right
June 13, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this
Scoobysnacks Some of you guys make me hope we pick Wright.What kind of reasoning are you using ? He’s from UNC,he’s like taking Marvin again.I really try to understand people’s thinking but these reactions seem to be more superstition than reason.
By OddJob
June 13, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this
Sope Creek You’d give Marvin and the 11 for the 5 ? I’ll go one better let’s throw in Philips Arena.With trades like that there won’t be a team to play there anyway.
By j-rock
June 13, 2007 11:26 PM | Link to this
Steve B. are you saying Marvin Williams will be better than Kevin Durant?
By terrell barron
June 13, 2007 11:32 PM | Link to this
STEVE B, I would give up Marvin and the 3 anyday for a chance at a player like Durant. COACH CLEM, I thought you said Childress was leaving town.
By Billy Knight
June 13, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this
Maybe I’ll draft Mike Conley, maybe I won’t. What we really want to do is draft a player who can wear a jersey. Then we will have another basketball player to put in the rotation. If we can’t draft a starter then we can get a player to give speedy claxton knee rubs.
By diehardhawkfan
June 13, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this
BK….bring home Conley…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfK31hGU-Po
By Professor K75
June 13, 2007 11:47 PM | Link to this
Mitch, who the hell told you Conley was an elite point guard? You guys need to stop with all the hype. If he is so elite then why is he working out alone? He was a freshman just like Crit. How can you say Crit is 2 years away? SS talked about being careful about solo workouts and the first person you guys bring up is Yi. Truth is, there is no elite player after Oden and Durant. Heck, even Durant has faults. I’m so tired of everyone saying we have to get Conley and putting him in the same breath as Paul and Williams. Conley is not ready to lead the Hawks. Maybe in a couple of years but not now. I’ve seen alot of players dominate other players in college, but when they get to the pros its another story. I’m not saying Conley is garbage, but he is not the next Jason Kidd, not even close. Truth is the Hawks would have made the playoffs last year if it wasn’t for all the injuries they sustained. Whoever they draft should give them enough depth at least to be in a playoff run and make the fact of not having a first round pick next year not that much of a factor. Wait and see. Wait and see.
By Coach Mike Woodsen
June 14, 2007 12:10 AM | Link to this
Me and Billy are making sure we get the best player in this draft by trading josh Smith, Childress, JJ, Lue, Soloman Jones, Marvin Williams and Both of our picks to the Trail Blazers to achieve this. And with the #1 pick, Billy has assured me we will select Branden Wright from North Carolina. We will then trade Lorenzen Wright and Speedy Claxton straight up to the Celtics for Michael Olowokandi. I will then continue to teach these guys how to play at inconsistent slow tempos and halfcourt games and to consistently score less than 70 points a game.
Fans, get ready for the best season ever under the BK Woody regime.
Sincerly,
Coach Woodsen
By Professor K75
June 14, 2007 12:20 AM | Link to this
The Atlanta Hawks, however, seem to be thinking a little bit differently. At least that’s what the reports circling around the rumor mill seem to indicate these days. The philosophy of the Hawks at this point is that there are too many quality bigs available early and so many potentially serviceable point guards that could still be available at #11. So why not tackle their needs in that order, even if it means missing out on Conley?
In fact, the latest buzz has Atlanta taking UNC’s Brandan Wright with the third overall selection, and then Javaris Crittenton at #11 (yes, even if Acie Law IV is still available). Not everyone believes Conley is the true point guard the Hawks need, and with the rare abundance of power forwards and centers projected to go 3-9, Billy Knight might not want to pass up on a future all-star just to qualm a need too impatiently.
In other words, he doesn’t want to panic, even though drafting Conley would give a lot of Hawks fans some much-needed confidence and maybe even put some butts back in seats down in Georgia.
That said, the current philosophy isn’t necessarily a bad one—the drop-off in point guard talent after the tenth pick isn’t that great, but the drop-off in big man talent is pretty tremendous. Who knows what they’ll do; the Hawks are pretty interesting to follow this time of year. All that can be said is that we all knew about Shelden Williams going to Atlanta at #5 well before the draft this time last year, and it turned out that rumor was correct. Is it at all possible that the Wright and Crittenton one is equally authentic?
By Coach Mike Woodsen
June 14, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this
Dear Professor K75,
Im glad to know that you are buying in to our philosophy with Branden Wright pick and that you feel point guard is not a problem.
NOW with some big news, I am proud to announce that our great Gm Billy Knight has signed recently retired Danny Manning to a 5 year 60 million dollar contract. We have also made a trade with our friends the Phoenix Suns. We have traded our 2010 and 2011 first round choices to them for SG Jalen Rose.
I feel that with Manning as our main scoring threat and the additions of Rose Olowokandi and Wright to go along with Shelden and Royal Ivey, we will achieve our goal of the #1 seed in this east for the 2007-2008 season. Hope to see many new faces at Phillips including you Professor.
Sincerly,
Coach Woodsen
By Matt
June 14, 2007 12:54 AM | Link to this
The people posting as Coach Woodson and Billy Knight…wow, you’re so clever. I want my son to be just like you when he grows up.
The Hawks won’t pick Wright. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. People act as if Billy is so enamored with picking young, athletic forwards that he stays up nights flogging the bishop and thinking about them. He’s not. The one and only time he commented on what he might do with the pick, he indicated that he might trade it. That isn’t the mindset of a guy who is salivating over the prospect of drafting another young forward - and the good Lord knows that with Brendan Wright, Julian Wright, Brewer, and Green in this draft, people looking for a versatile forward are salivating.
As I’ve always said, I think Knight’s strategy was always to stockpile on talented swingmen (the most likely type of player to become a star), see which ones develop, and then trade away those who don’t. We’re at the end of stage 2 now. It’s clear that JJ is a star, and the Childress is not. The jury is still out on Josh (because of his inconsistency and occasional tantrums) and Marvin (because boy’s only 20), and anyone who says otherwise is either blustering…or descended from Nostradamus.
Knight won’t pick Wright at #3. I doubt he’ll pick Horford either, unless he’s sure Horford can man the 5-spot.
I actually don’t even think he’d pick Yi unless 1) He plans to use him as trade bait; 2) He’s pretty sure he can bulk up and play the 5-spot a year or two down the road; or 3) The money-starved Spirit people tell him to take and keep Yi because of his immediate global marketability (i.e. “Who cares if he’s a bust? We can make $50 million off of him before he even plays in an NBA game”). Granted, any of those 3 scenarios are certainly possible, and I would not at all be disappointed if we end up with Yi.
The other possibilities are trading the pick (which I wouldn’t personally do unless it’s trading up 1 spot with the Sonics…and Lord I hope they’re that dumb) or taking Conley.
No matter who Knight picks, 60% of the people here will slam him for it and cry bloody murder. I won’t be among them in any case, because I frankly still tend to trust the people who see and know more than I do. But it’ll be fun to see the bloodshed around here the day after the draft.
That being said, if we pick Brandon Wright, I give you my word that I’ll show up to the first game that the Hawks play up here in Philly next year wearing one of Clyde’s “FIRE BILLY AND WOODY” t-shirts ;-).
By chris
June 14, 2007 1:13 AM | Link to this
my two cents on the draft. BK and woodson won’t be here next year unless they produce. This argues for either trading one or both of the picks or drafting someone who can help right away. That means they have to get a point guard-you would have to think either conley at 3, or acie law at 11. Crittenton has potential but will take 2 to 3 years to develop. At the 11, do what it takes to get noah.
BK should choose those players with passion, a commitment to improve themselves, and winners.
Conley seems to be the correct choice-at the combine, he tested very well, i.e his athleticism is off the charts. Second he is instinctually a point guard unlike some others playres people have compared him to-rumeal robinson or jason terry. Third of all he has passion and a winners mentality. He will do what it takes to win.
At the 11, Noah would be ideal not because he by himself is a great player, but he brings passion and a winners mentality along with defense and rebounding that this team could use.
To be honest if BK chooses brandon wright he would have to be crazy. Brandon wright is not chris bosh because he lacks one thing-passion and a desire to be the best. He might have chris bosh’s body but not his heart. Personality traits should make up at least 30% of a draft decision. Conley and Noah both have the talent and the heart and winners mentality, that is why we should choose them.
By Coach Mike Woodson
June 14, 2007 1:28 AM | Link to this
Matt,
In all honesty I would love to see the Hawks do a couple of things with their pick.
Playoff Bound,
Mike Woodson
P.S. I am aware i have been spelling my name wrong, and if we suck again this year, go root for the Thrashers they are worth it.
By Charles
June 14, 2007 1:33 AM | Link to this
If BK wants the Hawks to be relevant next year, he’ll pick Yi…
By OddJob
June 14, 2007 2:39 AM | Link to this
I’ve scouted some players I really think could help the team.I’ve posted my opinions before but after reading many posted opinions on the subject I’m sure of only one thing. Hawks management should have the balls and good sense not to read any of this.What they need to do is earn their money by making the best decisions based on THEIR JUDGEMENT not public outcry.If they get it right people won’t care or even admit that they would have done it different.If they’re wrong, at least they’ll still have balls.
By D
June 14, 2007 3:15 AM | Link to this
Current owners of Hawks not likely to be owners in future Hey guys, just saw a note above asking about status. Who knows what will happen, but, as a lawyer, I can say that if you are the one appealing in a civil case in a matter of contract interpretation, you’re behind the eight-ball. I.e., it’s not good. I’m also a poker player, so, for all you poker players out there: this is about a 4:1 against AT BEST.
Now, the draft. I’ve said this once before. All the various trade scenarios and the interesting #11 pick make it hard in that there are so many scenarios, but this franchise has an opportunity to pick up a premier point guard, a serious talent, a guy who will be an All-Star in Mike Conley, Jr. Just pick him. It’s easy— no special work outs, no diamond in the rough, blah blah. The guy played in the national title game with flair, was the most important player for Ohio St. in the NCAAs (Oden included, guys), and was totally unfazed by anybody— including all of the starting Florida 5— in the Tournament. He’s a winner, he makes good decisions, he’s got ice water in his veins. Lest others be dissuaded by some misleading stats, he shot much better from long distance later in the season; he’ll be a decent/good 3 point shooter in a year or two. Also, in reference to Sekou’s descriptions… Tony Parker is looking pretty good in the Finals right now, isn’t he?
Just do it. Mike Conley, JR. Please.
By Clyde
June 14, 2007 3:36 AM | Link to this
WE WANT MIKE
MUTTA F WRIGHT
WE WANT MIKE
FIRE WOODY AND KNIGHT
FIRE BILLY AND WOODY
By joecur
June 14, 2007 4:19 AM | Link to this
Conley is the best choice for the hawks…he is exactly the same size as chris paul, but bested him on every athletic measurement in orlando…he’s smart, he’s a winner, he had more steals than personal fouls, led his team to the championship game as a freshman…just give him the ball
there are only 2 players worthy of the 3rd pick: conley or yi, but conley is a better fit for atlanta. so hawks, either pick conley (or yi if you’re feeling frisky) or trade down…danny ainge will give you something good to swap spots and you may still get conley if he slips past memphis
By STEVE B.
June 14, 2007 5:42 AM | Link to this
J-ROCK I think Kevin has more heart than Marvin. Talent wise, I think they are the same. In the same draft I’d take Kevin but I wouldn’t give up Marvin and my #3 to move up one spot unless it was Oden. Every one said it would take two or three seasons for Marvin to develop, he’s on target. Puting my self in BK’s shoes, we would be giving up to much for Kevin unless he changes his last name to Garnett.
By STEVE B.
June 14, 2007 5:54 AM | Link to this
TERRELL I would love to be A GM and make trades with you. You may not like Marvin but he’s got A lot more value than you give him credit for. If Sea. wants Yi that bad you don’t give them an easy out. If they realy want Yi we are the only trade partner for them, We kinda controll what they do just by telling them he won’t make it past us. Chill’s and #3 for #2,Luke, and Wilcox in A heartbeat. But Marvin and #3 for #2 no way. We can find some one else to trade Marvin to and get A lot more back. Not taking shots at ya dude, just saying look at it from the GM’s end, not the fan that dosn’t like the kids game.
By James
June 14, 2007 7:19 AM | Link to this
conley has never played on a team without odin. odin would make any pg look good as for b wright, being a tar heel fan, i sure hope he doesn’t go the hawks. everyone knows the hawks are where you go to lose. as for marvin starting, he never started a game for the tar heels but he was always in the game at the end in close games. even made the shot that won the national championship.
By Allan
June 14, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this
If Jose Calderone is available, he is a better bet than any of the college players who have yet to prove they belong in the NBA. If the Hawks can unload some of their surplus wing players and a draft choice, Jose is the way to go.
By tony
June 14, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this
Conley, Conley, Conley, Conley…..It has to be Mike Conley or this franchise will suffer big time! A center nor a powerful forward will help this team’s FG% which was our biggest problem since they traded away Jason Terry. We were 28th in the league in FG% because we don’t have a PG who can beat their man off the dribble to create better shots for the team. Mike Conley FG%, Asst%, Stl% and Blk% is better than any guard in this draft. He don’t make dumb decisions like our current roster and he know how to make the tough passes without turning the ball over. The 2nd thing we need to improve on is our rebounding. We were 22nd in the league in rebounding. If possible, we need to trade our 11th pick to Phoenix for their 24th and 28th picks. Then I would take Aaron Gray and Glen Davis because both of those guys are good rebounders.
By Fred Everett
June 14, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this
Forget all the crazy trade talk…in the end…the Hawks will pick a BIG at # 3 and a Point (Law or Crittenon) or combo guard (Stuckey) at # 11. Just look at who has been scheduled to be worked out before the draft…4 BIGS and 5 Guards (1 defensive specialist…1 combo…3 point guards).
Go Billy…Go Hawks !
By mountain_jim
June 14, 2007 9:22 AM | Link to this
tony - In the pros Conley will have a harder time beating his man off the dribble because he does not have an outside shot so his man can lay off.
He would be great on fast breaks but in running an offense he needs an outside shot.
They’ve already said they will not be taking a PG at 3 so unless he falls to 11 or the Hawks trade up for him from 11 all you Conley lovers are going to be disapointed. I bet we are trading for a vet PG anyways.
By Woody
June 14, 2007 9:35 AM | Link to this
So, it’s common knowledge that they won’t take a PG at #3?
If you actually believe what GM’s, scouts and other NBA insiders are saying, then you need to get your head out of your arss.
No offense, but the only rumors I’ll even remotely consider believing will come straight from Sekou. That’s why they pay you the big bucks, huh Sekou!
By SaintSparky
June 14, 2007 9:47 AM | Link to this
I think one of our picks will be traded. Here is what I would do:
to Atlanta.
So the starting lineup would be: PG -> Conley. Jr. SG -> Joe Johnson SF -> Josh Smith PF -> Antawn Jamison or Zach Randolph C -> Marcus Camby
Not a bad lineup ! Not even you can screw this up Billy !!!
By tp
June 14, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this
I know, I know, he lacks a true offensive game, etc., but I can’t help but think that Noah is the perfect pick for us.
Heart, energy, grit, determination, personality - probably the best defender next to Oden. He’s vocal, he’s a winner through and through.
In other words, he’s the anti-Shelden. What else are we looking for?
By diehardhawkfan
June 14, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this
mountain_jim…why does tony parker lead the league in points in the paint…he doesnt exactly have the greatest outside shot.
By SaintSparky
June 14, 2007 9:53 AM | Link to this
think one of our picks will be traded. Here is what I would do:
So the starting lineup would be: PG -> Conley. Jr. SG -> Joe Johnson SF -> Josh Smith PF -> Antawn Jamison or Zach Randolph C -> Marcus Camby
Not a bad lineup ! Not even you can screw this up Billy !!!
By doc
June 14, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this
good point m jim, think you get the biggest argument against conley for our already undersized team. and one his supporters really overlook or are in denial as to its importance. i would say that conley is going to resemble speedy more that chris paul because of his lack of an outside shot.
the 3 point line is what 21 feet in college? he was a 30%er from outside of there in college. two to three feet in will not be a breeze in the nba and that is where he will have to constantly contend for respect by hitting that shot. how much of his high percentage was made on close range baskets that will be highly contested in the lane by a lot bigger and talented guys that he has ever seen before. he would see one talented player once every three weeks in college whereas he will see several each night in the nba on the court defending him each time he steps out. i am very suspect when a shooting percentage drops off as much as his does from inside the three point line to outside of it. something is very amiss when it drops by over 20%.
no doubt folks can criticize the yi pick in a similar manner that he hasnt played enough bigsor plays inferior international talent (not valid in todays diluted ncaa) but his game seems more well rounded than conley’s therefore his liabilites will be more towards stepping up to the new game rather than having to gain something that isnt there.
the argument with yi versus horford is really more in the concept of what your philosophy is going to be in having a team and where each guy id going to be in three years. i always want more flexibility and being able to make match up problems for the other team. multi dimensional players like yi are like upper level chess pieces. would you rather have a queeen to work with like yi migth be or a pawn like sheldon will probably be .. one dimensional. not sure horford is a pawn but in time he will limit what you can do in comparison to yi is my thought.
By mountain_jim
June 14, 2007 10:07 AM | Link to this
I saw Tony Parker hit some outside shots last game. Conley is years away from being a Parker-type PG in the Pros imho.
It was a Hawqsqwauker who said that Hawks coach Woody personally told him they were not taking a PG at 3 - so true or not, believe that or not, I don’t care but I do believe that’s the correct move in this draft, however much it upsets the Conley-ites faction here.
If the Hawks want Conley they will trade up from 11 I believe, no way they get him at 3.
By doc
June 14, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this
die hard, since you asked, it is probably because he has someone named tim duncan on the court with him most of the time to keep folks honest. if that isnt a good enough reason it is because there are three very talented shapshooters form 3 point land in horry, bowen and ginobly who can cut and drive to the basket pretty well himself. throw in another scorer like finley and he doesnt have to shoot more than 2 3 pointers a game which he hit for 40% this year.a fact overlooked is the spurs are one of the better three point shot percentage teams in the nba and is one reason that they took the suns out out shooting them at what the suns are expected to do better.
when parker goes in the other teams have to repect the toss back out to the perimeter if they collapse on him. anything over 33% from the 3 point line is gravy as it equals out to better than 50% inside the line in points accumulated. i dont see those talents on the hawks as yet, not even close. parker isnt an assist machine either so something else is factoring in and it is quick ball movement around the perimeter that has been breathtaking to watch as a fan of good basketball.
By mountain_jim
June 14, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
To any Hawks ownership possibly lurking here - There are already folks from China greeting us at Hawksquawk this morning - having googled on Yi and found those discussions going on there - the first of countless new potential fans of the Hawks should they keep the pick and draft Yi.
That’s what I hope the Hawks do at 3, and if they trade 3 for vets BK better not get taken to the cleaners again when he holds the (valuable) 3 pick.
By joecur
June 14, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this
chris paul shot 28% from 3pt land as a rookie (43% overall), improving to 35% in his second year (still, 43% overall)…you can’t tell me a 19 year-old winner, blueblood athlete like conley can’t polish up his outside game to go with everything else he has in spades…it won’t be his bread and butter, similar to chris paul, who is absolutely a valid comparison… BTW, have you ever seen jason kidd shoot a jumpshot? hide the kids!
By diehardhawkfan
June 14, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this
it took parker about 3 years for him to have a consistent mid-range jump shot and he still doesnt have any resemblence of a three point shot…jason kidd’s been in the league for 10+ years and he still doesn’t have a jump shot…players play to their strengths and it’s much easier said than done to stop a quick, penetrating, aggressive guard/forward from getting to the lane…conley shot 52% from the field, higher than paul, deron williams, and felton when they were freshman…trust me, he will continue to do the same in the pros, he has star potential written all over him…
but hey, i’ve pretty much came to realization that the hawks will continue to draft the project forward with tremendous upside (yi=marvin williams) or the bruising tweener pf/c (horford=sheldon williams) over the best pg’s in the draft.
By newkid
June 14, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this
“…first of countless new potential fans…” In a year or two these ASG cats (whether inept or not) could be smiling all the way to Fort Knox. Wonder what thoughts are going through Mr. Belkin’s mind these days.
By terrell barron
June 14, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this
Draft Express says that Indiana wants a hihg draft pisk and a young player for Jermaine Oneal. They have him possibly going to Boston for the 5th pick and Theo Ratliff’s expiring contract. Apparently Indiana just wants a high draft pick to build around Granger. What do you guys think about the Hawks dealing the 3 and a player with expiring contract for Oneal?
By doc
June 14, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this
valid stuff joecur. however when you look at a comparison to what yi totally brings and what conley brings (i brought him up as someone to look closely at during march madness so i really like him) is still have to go with yi. he will be a cultural worldwide phenomenon. he has tiger appeal to a mass audience that will blow us away.
if anything the nba may conspire to keep him away from our dreary band or legal malcontents called the broken atlanta spirit. all things considered as things have fallen out belkin made a huge mistake in his play for power and it has cost this fan base huge. i know i will hear from flash but it will be hard to argue as we have the best case scenario outside of oden that could have happened. a lot of people predicted disaster but it didnt happen did it? so the other considerations that were discredited by them were right but we are yet to hear back from them saying they are contrite. havent heard form any suns fans recently either about the supidity of the move as they have to get rid of marion because they gave diaw 8 mil a year last year. sarver got the contract he deserved, possibly.
“luck: they say. it is all a game of chance when you are playing the game based on what you need through the draft. wonder if the entrepreneur belkin cant see the dollars light up with a yi in the fold as he moves i for the court kill as i expect him to win unless there is huge upset or some kind of an out of court agreement or compromise that would have to include the nba govenors . even a good businessman/entreprneur like belkin which he is first rate, would be hard pressed to speak out against the move to get yi except to shake his head once again at a perceived blunder if bk goes anywhere else if yi is available.
yes, it is very simple folks, yi is it. no one pick can truly distance himself from the rest there for what you get, what can give you the biggest and quickest payoff. xenophobes might have a hard time with it but it is very logical.
By doc
June 14, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this
newkid, i was just writing the same thought about belkin. i guess he really cant say yet the trade was not worth it as jj got us some repectability by getting the team to the 25-30 win category. i am thinking that we would still be in the teens if he werent around instead of pressing close to the .500 win barrier with some upside if folks stay healthy and the draft goes well.
By tony
June 14, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
mountain, you have no legitimate proof what so ever how Conley will fare in the pros. As a matter of fact, you really don’t know how any of these athletes will fare in the NBA. Perception and assumption is like a blind man trying to drive a car down peachtree st. There is 1 way that will give you some idea how these athletes will perform in the NBA……and that would be to analyze their statistics and their performances in college and HS. To say that he doesn’t have an outside shot - is an understatement. The guy shot 52% from the field - better than any other guards in this draft. Besides, Conley is a pg not a shooting guaud. Point guards are known for their ball-handling abilities. Typically, a pg has to be quicker with good court vision and must be a good passer to able to run an offense sufficiently. If BK choose to go in a different direction, I doubt very seriously that I will watch this team play like I have since the John Drew era.
By newkid
June 14, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
doc, probably no contrition with Mr. Belkin. I’m sure he’s convinced his objection to the JJ deal was principle-based (not saying it wasn’t), and he’s likely quite elated to possibly be within arm’s reach of large stacks of gold bouillons.
One’s gotta think the Spirit are saying to BK, do whatever you wish to do relative to any basketball decisions NOT related to pick #3, for that decision belongs solely to us and our bankers.
By Mookie Blaylock
June 14, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
I really like Charlie V and the 6 pick for #3. Throw in T. Lue for cap relief since the Bucks will likely lose Mo in free agency. I also like a package of Marvin for Toronto’s Caldaron, even if you have to some of their role guys in return. I really like how he runs that team. Pick Noah with the #6 pick.
Jose, JJ, Charlie, Smoove, Noah is a strong 5 Speedy, Salim, Solo, ZaZa and a the best player left @ #11
By terrell barron
June 14, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this
FRED, workouts mean nothing, when it comes to Billy Knight. Like I said before, he never worked out Sheldon. SAINT SPARKY, Camby is injury prone. I can see him already sitting next to speedy on the bench in a nice suit.
By OddJob
June 14, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
Terrell If O’neal was healthy he wouldn’t be available.Why would the Pacers move him if he was the same player he was 5 years ago.I’d be very wary to say the least.Camby’s another matter,I’d make that move if the price was right.
By Ken Strickland
June 14, 2007 11:51 AM | Link to this
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. “HOW IS CONLEY, OR ANY PG, GOING TO STOP US FROM CONTINUOUSLY GETTING POUNDED IN THE MIDDLE, WHICH IS OUR MAJOR WEAKNESS”? Remember, as good as JKidd is as an overall PG, his inability to develop a consistent outside shot has proven to be his achilles heel. He’s always been outstanding at initiating an OFF. However, when his teams designated shooter(s) aren’t hitting, he often becomes an OFF liability. No NBA team in worried about JKidd beating them with his outside shot, period.
The Hawks aren’t a great shooting team to start with, especially without JJ. How much of an advantage would we have running the NBA’s youngest team, with what would be, the NBA’s youngest and least experienced none shooting PG? I am also puzzled by the lack of respect and appreciation for the overall talent of JChills. Several posters have indicated they’d gladly trade JChills in order to hold on to MWilliams. I don’t understand why? Marvin has the potential to be a better, and possibly more consistent, outside shooter than Chills. But Chills is already a better rebounder(both OFF/DEF by a wide margin), defender, passer, and ballhandler. He’s definitely more versatile(6th man, SF, SG, PG, and PF, against certain teams and/or players). In other words, JChills’ overall versatility and production are far more valuable to this team than MWilliams potential as an outside shooter.
If a trade isn’t initiated, we should draft 2 bigs and hope at least one of them produces and/or develops. If we can’t get a DEF stopper in the middle, we should get an OFF minded big that can put pressure on the opposing teams interior DEF. Remember, the Spurs have only 2 players that can consistently create their own shot, Mano and Tony. The inside OFF presence of Tim Duncan makes their stand still, none pentrating, open 3pt jump shooters very effective. The future of this franchise should start in the middle and then work its way out, just like our OFF.
By doc
June 14, 2007 11:52 AM | Link to this
yeah, newkid. interesting paradox for belkin.
imagine after the fact which is now where we are. there is no conjecture or ambiguities that even my friend who i battled with incesantly, ando could come up with. what would you want at this point? it would be; diaw costing 8 mil a year, rondo who is what got chosen with the pick that belkin actually put his foot down on; not the three protected which is what everyone assumed because he had already consented to it by reports a pick say at ten to fifteen next year (could be lower) or jj at 10 mil a year on his prorated contract deal. easy call now. heh heh
By akin
June 14, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this
Go with Yi at 3, Critt at 11 (more cause Law reminds me of Salim) and then trade for a young to mid career 5 and a free agent pg to teach Critt whatever he needs to know to take over the team next year. Plain and simple I’d like this as a starting line up 2007- PG Chauncey Billups SG Joe Johnson SF Josh Smith PF Yi C LaMarus Aldridge
2008- PG Javaris Critt SG Joe Johnson SF Josh Smith/Marvin Williams PF Yi C LaMarcus Aldridge
By doc
June 14, 2007 12:09 PM | Link to this
tony, no one can make any claim other than conjecture at this point. that is the purpose of this feast of words. though some cry truth they are often disproved by the way it really turns out. gee, didnt i say that i didnt think paul was tough enough? not and i remind myself and these folks often. no one is going to be right all the time on the conjecture going forward, some better than others. i expect there are no nostredomus types out there nor clairvoyants, if so you should let us know by identifying yourselves first so we can use the info for our monetary gain.
By smartguy
June 14, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this
Okay, I’ve got one foot on the Conley train, and the more this develops, I think there is really only one wrong pick for the Hawks: Brandon Wright.
Horford, Yi, Conley, Noah, and even Hawes would all be good picks early. Some, or one, are obviously going to turn out better than others, but at least we won’t be drafting a duplicate. Anyone but Wirght.
Nice poem Clyde. Matt, I liked your final statement about wearing one of Cylde’s shirts if we draft Wright. Glad we can firmly agree on something.
By J
June 14, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this
TCM,
In your rant about the Hawks being bad the past 10 years, didn’t you once sit down and realize everything you mentioned was before the new ownership group, and that the new onwership brought back Nique to work in the front office AND that they also broke apart a team that was horribly assembled by babcock.
I’ve lived in the ATL all my life, and I’ve never seen so much young talent on one team. BK Can’t screw this up, b/c it’s win-win … don’t believe me? look at the 3 million posted comments on who the Hawks should pick. nobody is set on one person. It’s time to get over last year’s draft, b/c harping on the past is pointless.
By doc
June 14, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this
smartguy i dont think we in any way need to be overwrought with several guys who could fall into our lap even if it isnt “our guy” as there are several guys that we could all agree on if drafted. wright green brewer and the like fit less though maybe wouyld turn out the best.
By terrell barron
June 14, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this
KEN, I love the J-Chill, Marvin comparison. I also beleive that Childress is more valuable to the Hawks than Marvin. AKIN, Law and Salim are not the same kind of players. Salim is a shooter who has always been a 2 guard, who by the way, doesn’t know what the word defense means. Law has played point guard for 4 years. From what I’ve seen of him he can either be a scorer from the outside or by taking it to the rim. He was ask to look for his shot more in college, but he can also distribute the rock. He could even give Joe some rest every now and then at the 2 spot if needed. I think he is more in the Jason Terry mold. Not as quick, but just as deadly shooting the basketball, and creating opportunities. I think people compare him to Salim, just because he is a lefty. REDICULOUS
By AJ
June 14, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this
Delta is making it much easier for Yi’s fans to see him in action at Philips next season:
http://www.ajc.com/business/content/business/delta/stories/2007/06/14/0614bizdeltachina.html
By OddJob
June 14, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this
Smartguy The Hawks were a fairly good defensive team last season.They were the worst offensive team in the league.How can Shelden and Zaza shoot way under 50% when most of their shots come from near the basket ? Brandon Wright set an ACC record shooting 65% as a freshman.He can also defend and pass out of double teams quickly.The team was near the top in blocks and steals but near the bottom in field goal%,assist and of course dead last in scoring.I couldn’t see games here in NC so I followed in real time on computer.Over and over the games came down to the final minutes only to have one shot after another miss.If the team could hit 50% down the stretch they’d be a playoff team.
By J
June 14, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this
Clyde, You’re a trip (and i’ll be coming back at you when the Hawks are in the playoffs w/ BK & Woody bringing around the rear)! Fred, I agree w/ you more than anyone else b/c of who’s coming in for the draft workouts. me personally, i’d like to see conley and noah … but yi and law or JC will make me happy too. hell, as long as it’s not hawes or wright, i’ll be happy!!!! I’m so pumped for the Draft party!!!!
By newkid
June 14, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this
AJ, thanks for the post. Can’t you just envision Yi Jianlian’s ‘easy on the eyes’ features on Delta billboards all over southern states here in the US as well as throughout China’s eastern provinces? doc, you’re probably right about this kid blowing Tiger out of 1st place (in the US) in international advertising appeal. What a future!
By OddJob
June 14, 2007 1:21 PM | Link to this
J you really don’t know a player when you see one if you can’t appreciate what Hawes can do.
By OddJob
June 14, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this
J you really don’t know a player when you see one if you can’t appreciate what Hawes can do.
By Stinger
June 14, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this
I just read the Chad Ford chat and one fact became clear - Al Horford is the player everyone is trying to move up to get. I like Horford for the Hawks but even better he is the player to take to open additional options after/during the draft. For example - Milwaukee is one of the teams that is hot for Horford. We take Horford at #3 and if Conley is available at #6 (Milw) the teams swap picks with Atlanta also receiving Villanueva. Or Horford @3 and choose best player available at #6 and in July swap players with Milw doing a sign and trade of Mo Williams for Claxton / Lue or a package of players - thus decrease the pg backlog at the same time. I would still take conley at #6 and do the Mo Williams trade. Other teams with significant interested in Horford include the Bulls (Ben Gordon - who I think could be a great pg next to JJ) and Philadelphia (Andre Miller - talk about veteran leadership). Regardless of your preference Horford is clearly the pick @ #3 as it opens up a world of options for the Hawks which would span the summer all the way to the trade deadline next year.
By terrell barron
June 14, 2007 1:33 PM | Link to this
Every site I’ve been on says that Horford is the most NBA ready player. What that translates to, in my opinion is that he has reached his peak, as far as potential goes, or not a lot of up-side. JUST A THOUGHT
By Fred Everett
June 14, 2007 1:37 PM | Link to this
Regarding Chill vs Marvin. How about a bit of a break for Marvin…Chill has 3 years of college ball and 3 years of pro ball = 6 years. Marvin has 1 year of college ball and 2 years of pro ball = 3 years. I like Chill a great deal and think he has a great future as our 6th man. I also think our soon to be 21 year old Marvin will be a very good pro as well…and a longterm starter for the Hawks.
Go Billy…Go Hawks !
By OddJob
June 14, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Stinger Ben Gordon isn’t a pg, not remotely,he’s a pure 2.
By mountain_jim
June 14, 2007 1:39 PM | Link to this
Well TexasPete at the Squawk says rumours are that Golden State really, really want Yi (and that makes sense and that may be where China wants him to go), but that they are talking to Memphis and Boston about trading up, not Atlanta. WTF?
IMO BK should either be seriously looking at Yi or having everyone believe he is, unless these teams know he’s already traded 3 to one of those teams. How can they be sure Atlanta does not want Yi otherwise?
By mountain_jim
June 14, 2007 1:44 PM | Link to this
or BK might be thought to have already traded 3 for Buck’s 6 as was rumoured yesterday, with them taking Horford at 3 and giving us CV.
By OddJob
June 14, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this
Mountain Jim Yi to G.S. makes perfect sense,Right tempo,right market.
By i give up
June 14, 2007 1:47 PM | Link to this
People after Oden the talent crop of Centers damn near drop off the map. I like Hawes but he might be gone around 11. I like the kid from Boston College but i think we can trade down to get him. Other then that the other bigs are freakign power fowards they are not Centers. We need a damn pg. We are easily making this harder than it should be. Take Conley at 3 and hope Hawes is there at 11 if not trade down and take the kid from Boston College. This is not rocket science. BK please im begging you not to f this up.
By j-rock
June 14, 2007 1:55 PM | Link to this
Steve B. I believe you are very misinformed.Not only can K.Durant bring Marvins stats next year but more fans will come to see him play than will ever come to see a one dimensional jump shooting forward.Durant would also garauntee the Hawks will be on national television.Durant was the player of the year at Texas,Marvin was the 6th man of the year.Great analysis by K.Strickland.J-chill is underrated becuase his jump shot is isn’t textbook like Marvin Williams.He is a better overall player than Marvin right now.I can’t believe Steve B. actually believes the sonics would trade L.Ridnour,C.Wilcox,the #2 for Marvin and the #3.The sonics would laugh B.Knight off the phone.You must be a North Carolina fan with Oddjob(are you really making a case for a 200 pound power forward?).We all want the Hawks to win but you guys scenarios are the defintion of far fetched.Go Hawks!!!!
By terrell barron
June 14, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this
STINGER, how about Hinrich, instead of GORDON? Hinrich and T.THOMAS for player and the 3. I heard that Thomas was not the player that Skyles wanted and could be traid bait. They want Horford for an inside scoring presence, which they dont have in Wallace and Thomas. Billy has to many options to screw this one up. This is definately the year, along with 2003, to have two lottery picks
By mavid
June 14, 2007 1:58 PM | Link to this
Doc, I love the chess comparison. I really have a good feeling about Yi. The word is that dude has been trained EXTENSIVELY in fundamentals (5 hour/day practices in China for years… with a focus on fundamentals above all else… you can see it with hit shot, which has perfect form).
I think his body just need some work, and he has to get used to the NBA game. He might just be too good to pass up!
Mookie, do you realize you just advocated a team with Noah, Shelden Williams, AND Villanueva on it. Wow, just wow. Why do you want to make it painful to watch your own team?
3 semi-lame (or flat-out retarded in Noah’s case), horrificly ugly dudes who bring similar things to the court. I think we can do better!
By OddJob
June 14, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this
Fred Good points,It’s tempting to get impatient and give up on young players only to bring in even greener guys from the draft somehow convinced it will be different this time.Marvin has made good progress,if not for the injury he’d be even further along..
By OddJob
June 14, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this
i give up With Conley and Hawes this team would add structure at both ends.I’m not lobbying,there are lot’s of options but that wouldn’t be a bad way to go.
By Melvin
June 14, 2007 2:08 PM | Link to this
Am I the only person believe that we should keep both of our picks. Maybe trade the 11th to move up but definitely not for some other teams backup or overpaid players. Doc and Astro Joe, please give me a Yi train ticket. Are any of you non-Yi bandwagoneers are wondering why other teams are wanting to trade up for this guy. Maybe b/c he’s highly skill. Funny how folks want to complain about the level of competition he played against, when this is the same guy who played in the World Championship Games this past summer and held his own against some of the world elite players. I’m willing to believe the the World Games offer better talent than the NCAA’s. Please BK, draft Yi with the third pick.
By Scott
June 14, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this
Stinger, what Chad Ford Chat wrap are you referring to? Is there a very recent one because I don’t see it. Thanks.
By OddJob
June 14, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this
It just occurred to me who’s jumper Yi’s reminds me of.Reggie Miller’s
By Anakin Joe
June 14, 2007 2:17 PM | Link to this
Again, I reiterate, if the owners do NOT insist of Yi at #3, they are the worse business owners in capitalist history.
Is it the right basketball move? It is if it puts enough money in the piggy bank to bring in elite free agents in the next 2-3 years. So yes, if you can wait for 2-3 years to develop a player on the court, you can certainly wait 2-3 years to watch the piggy bank grow to purchase experienced and proven players.
I agree with earlier posts, pick #3 should belong to the owners and anything after that can go to BK. In fact, if I were Gearon, I’d announce that Yi is “an intriguing prospect who could be a foundational player for an NBA franchise”. Put it out there, make the interest known all over the world. Sound excited. Start rounding up potential sponsors. Get the zoo ready for a photo opp with Mei Lan. Get a Panda Express franchise inside Phillips. Make It Happen!
By mountain_jim
June 14, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this
Horford and Yi’s value to teams wanting to move up is definitely increasing the value of the 3 pick.
I don’t like giving it to Bucks for 6 and CV, because I think Yi is going to be that great and that valuable to who gets him. I hope that rumour was from the other side’s wish and not something BK is proposing.
Maybe BK is trying to get the price for Gasol down to a more reasonable rate by showing the value 3 has to these other potential suitors.
I am on the Yi train, but if/when it crashes with a trade out of the pick I will be one of the the many injured (lol) unless it’s a great, great trade for the Hawks that lets him go elsewhere.
By travis
June 14, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this
STOP THE PRESSES people, i really appreciate the hypotheticals. they are really giving me a mental workout, but regardless of who or what the HAWKS do with the 3 and 11, it won’t matter. We still have WOODY as the coach. He is a disciple of Bobby Knight and Larry Brown and these guys, though winners are very antagonistic. Until we talk about replacing the coach everything else is pointless.
By doc
June 14, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this
aj got style.
yeah it is really too simple.
to charlie v… no, unless he comes with a signed mo or another shooter and we have the 6 and 11 picks as well. let them eat crumbs, otherwise.
By Stinger
June 14, 2007 2:44 PM | Link to this
Scott the link is http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=16187
The chat took place at noon today. To respond to earlier comments I like Heinrich or Gordon (Chicago has made him an undersized SG but he has the handle to be our pg) however was point was that Horford is the guy teams are willing to move to #3 for (he is absolutely gone at 4 as Memphis isn’t even trying to hind their interest). Teams also like Yi but don’t believe they have to move up to #3 to get him. Boston @5 is the spot most teams feel is Yi appropriate. Note there is a real risk that Yi will not report if taken by an unapproved team (currently only Chicago & GS are approved). This could be positioning by his agent and the Chinese government but imagine drafting Yi and watching him play in the CBA for the next 4 years.
By diehardhawkfan
June 14, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this
Quick question for all of you guy who think Yi will bring hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue…have any of you heard of Wang Zhizhi…he was the first Chinese to play in the NBA…how much money did he bring to the Kings…if the Hawks are out of the playoffs next year, will people still pay attention to Yi? Yi plays the 4/3. Will he get playing time over Marvin (he scored 20+ points in 5 of his last 5 gams), Josh Smith, Sheldon Williams (5 straight double doubles to end the season), or Josh Childress?
By diehardhawkfan
June 14, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
Question, Stinger…if teams are moving up to get Horford, doesn’t that mean that teams think that the hawks are locked in on wright, conley or yi. Why would you move up in the draft to get horford if you know the hawks are going to pick him anyway?
By diehardhawkfan
June 14, 2007 3:01 PM | Link to this
Never mind…I see…teams are trying to get the Hawks’ #3, not Memphis’ #4.
By Stinger
June 14, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this
The beauty of drafting Horford @3 is that a trade down with Milwaukee @6 is certain to yield either Conley or Yi along with an additional asset (CV or Mo Williams either of which addresses a need) Note - a sign and trade for Mo must be delayed until July.
I love Horford as I believe he can play some C in the east but I most covet the flexability it give us later. If we draft Horford and neither Yi or Conley falls to #6 (extremely unlikely) we either keep him or enter the sign and trade market of the summer.
By doc
June 14, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this
quick question die hard, what was the record in those games that those guys had good stats? mop up baby, is all i see from those guys. we will see if they are ready for prime time thisis their year.
yi is ready and the other guy was the first of the wave. another question if yao has done fairly well, good numbers, stats and a winning team when he is playing, so is he a better barometer of things to come? ior another, is yao a suggestion of the rising tide that will peak with yi? remember, the kid is 19 or so, the other guy wasnt and didnt come close to having an all around game is my suggestion.
By Scott
June 14, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the link Stinger. Don’t know if Villanueva is someone the Hawks would consider because he is a head case. Now Mo Williams is another story, but we would have to find someone to take our boatload of slow point guards. Personally I put out there that we LOVE YI and HORFORD and make someone give up some very good player and/or pick to move to that spot. Also, they might have to take some dead weight off our hands like Speedy, Shel, Wright, etc.
By Scott
June 14, 2007 3:42 PM | Link to this
thanks for the link Stinger.
By samiam
June 14, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
Ok,who has stolen my screen name? I’m the only Sam I Am and I haven’t posted on this topic!!!!!
By NoD
June 14, 2007 4:14 PM | Link to this
Trade JJ and others get number 4 or 5 pick: Get Noah, Hortford, Brewer
All about winning
By JJ
June 14, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this
NoD u don’t deserves to even post with an idea that stupid.
By Orlando Rivera
June 14, 2007 4:51 PM | Link to this
For the last time get it out your heads that anyone is taking any dead weight off this team. Only a moron would trade JJ the team’s only All-Star.
The only Florida player even worth thinking about drafting is Noah, and he’s going straight to Milwaukee at 6, even if he won’t work out for them. Horford is another Shelden Williams so BK won’t make that mistake again. Brewer is another SF and Lord knows Atlanta doesn’t need another one of those.
Apparently many of you seem to forget who’s making these picks. I will keep repeating it until draft night. BK wants to draft a team of hybrid players who play multiple positions to compete in today’s NBA. While it would be nice if he did select Conley at 3, his preference for bigger guards will mean Crittenton will be selected at 11 and Yi will be selected at 3. Yi is 7’0 and as a result will be able to play both forward positions and the 5 with his skill set against smaller lineups.
Atlanta can’t enter into the free agent market to get another overpriced veteran PG because of the ownership fiasco, so get ready for another year of Speedy at the point.
PF Smith/Shelden Williams SF Marvin Williams/Josh Childress C- Yi Jianlang/Zaza PG Speedy/Crittenton (or vice versa) SG JJ/Salim
That’s the makings of a pretty solid lineup with a good bench. Even if Yi doesn’t average 20-10 next year he will at the very least provide some offense while Marvin, JJ & Smith lead the assault. This way Woodson can’t run JJ into the ground like he did last year. I know Woodson graduated from the Mike Brown school of non- coaching but even he should be able to figure out how to utilize a very young yet talented Atlanta squad.
By Stinger
June 14, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this
Scott - a small point you may have missed. Assuming we swap picks with Milwaukee #3(Horford) for #6(Yi or Conley) + consideration - that consideration could be that Milwaukee resign Mo Williams in July and trade him to Atlanta for near equal salary players which would include our excess point guards etc. At the end of the day we end up with Yi & Mo Williams or Conley & Villanueva PLUS we are free to take the best player available at #11. This is a big plus as I believe a quality guy will be there at 11, although likely not at a position of need - think Green, Wright or Noah all of which when added to Yi + Mo or Conley + CV will drastically improve the hawks depth and trade flexability for the long haul - essentially making the hawks and bulls the best collections of young talent in the wide open esatern conference.
By Nookah
June 14, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this
For the third time…can someone who knows update me on the ownership situation?
SS can you shed some light please!!!!
Nuff respect!!!! GO HAWKS!!!
By michael m.
June 14, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this
let’s do #3 to milwalkue for #6 and villanueva.
at #6 take conley, at #11 take noah.
conley/speedy/lue joe/salim marvin/chill smoove/villanueva/solomon shell/zaza/noah
that is a young athletic team that can run all day and has the reserves to stay fresh while doing so. other teams, especially in the east, would get worn out trying to keep up with us that we would dominate in the second half.
the fact so many teams want the immediate impact of horford plays perfectly into our hands. we get what we need and maximize the value of our picks.
plus, we have the pieces to make a trade later on after seeing how everything commingles. but i think this would be a young team that excel in its own right. do it, bk!
By doc
June 14, 2007 5:34 PM | Link to this
nookah, though i am not sekou, i imagine even the legal players involved dont know what is going on unless a compromise/mediation is in progress. the quickest way to solve the problem will be to find a compromise otherwise it could drag on forever. i am sure you will get an update when we all do, so keep reading.
anyone thinking this franchise will willingly go over cap is mistaken so i doubt mo is in the makings. dont think it will happen to get a vet with a significant contract so whoever we get as a vet will be second teir. that is why i throw my hat into the ring for keeping the draft choices and hoping for the best. we have already played the game of getting rid of contracts.
By diehardhawkfan
June 14, 2007 5:55 PM | Link to this
I like that trade michael m, one problem…
I think personally that memphis REALLY wants conley so what they’re trying to do is bluff the hawks into thinking that horford is the third best player in the draft…they’re telling everyone that “horford is their guy and everyone is trying to trade up to get him” so the hawks can choose another forward in horford over the best point guard in the draft…
For the first time probably EVER since BK has been hired the hawks are strongly considering taking the best point guard in the draft so memphis is throwing smoke screens…
why do the griz want conley so bad…they just hired suns assistant coach iavaroni who’s going to bring in an up-tempo offense to memphis…they already have solid forwards gasol and gay…they want an intelligent steve nash like pg in conley to run his offense…
we should just draft conley at 3 and noah at 11 like you said…two of the most athletic players at their position in the draft…noah combined with jsmoove and sheldon is a solid rebounding and shot blocking front court. Noah might teach JSmoove a little something about intensity, passion and bringing it each and every night. Mwill and JJ will give you solid perimeter scoring and conley is the orchestrator.
By huh
June 14, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this
So if we draft YI and the money comes rolling in the elite free agents will come sign here? Im sorry but that might be the dumbest idea ive ever seen on here. We had plenty of money to throw at free agents before we blew a lot of it on Speedy, Wright and the other deadweight. Throwing money at free agents was never a issue, convincing them to come to Atlanta was and still is. I dont think any free agent will say to their agent ’ Man you know what i want to go to the Hawks. They have YI and the pandas there”. If we are not winning I dont care how much money we make with Yi because nobody will come to this team. Its so many reasosns why elite athletes wont come play for the Hawks and money wasnt a issue recently seeing how we had plenty but no one wanted to take it. At the end of the day if we are not winning and people are not coming to the games then no elite free agent will come here. Look what we went thru just to get Joe Johson here.
By A-ville Ranger
June 14, 2007 6:05 PM | Link to this
I’m not sure if the idea that Woodson prefers big guards came from him or just took a life of it’s own.A look at players added in his tenure doesn’t support that claim however.Among the pgs added are 5’11’ 170 lb Speedy Claxton,6’1” 186 Salim Stoudamire 6’0” 178 Tyron Lue.Those are all undersized pgs so unless they were forced on him by BK I don’t see why he would pass on Conley because of size.More likely is he thinks the team has too much tied up in pgs or he just doesn’t think Conley would be a good pick at 3.And then again maybe he takes him.
By Alamo Defender
June 14, 2007 7:04 PM | Link to this
I,ve seen and heard time and again the reasons for these finals getting low tv ratings.The list is short #1 the Spurs are boring #2 The two teams represent small markets.The Spurs-Suns series got good ratings,the Cavs - Nets series had the worst ratings of any playoff series.Now correct me if I’m wrong but I think New Jersey is a bigger market than Phoenix.Here’s a myth the league doesn’t want busted,Lebron James is no M J.He may well prove his equal in effective play.It’s possible that his drawing power will grow.At this time he simply can’t bring in viewers like the all time greats Magic,Bird and of course Jordon.M J never played in a low rated series even before his teams were champions.Oscar Robertson was a great,great player.He wasn’t a very compelling player to watch though,truth is neither is James,at least not yet.
By cdog1319
June 14, 2007 7:06 PM | Link to this
Anybody who thinks we should take yi is crazy we already have zaza and yi is just a taller version. WE need to get conley at 3 and noah or hawes at 11.Don’t even let me get started on you guys who want to take brandon wright
By Matt
June 14, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this
I hope and pray that Hawes or Noah is there at 11, but I have a hunch that neither will be. Teams often reach for anyone who’s a solid 6’10 or taller. I think that in some order, the first 10 selected will be Oden, Durant, Yi, Horford, Conley, (B)Wright, Brewer, Hawes, Noah, (J)Wright. Now, it’s certainly possible that someone will take Jeff Green or Al Thornton somewhere in there. But I think that knocks Julian Wright out of the top 10, not Noah or Hawes.
As I said, I hope I’m wrong; I’d personally like nothing more than for the Hawks to be able to grab Hawes or Noah at 11. I just don’t think it’ll happen. That’s why my instinct is to draft Yi at 11, try to swing a trade for Conley, and if that doesn’t work, take Law or Crit at 11.
As I’ve said many times, I think that lots of people on this board are still too caught up in traditional NBA roles. The lines between the once well-defined positions of PG, SG, SF, PF, and C are becoming blurrier every year, and (again, as I’ve said) I think it’s pretty clear at this point that you don’t need a great PG to be a great team. The only thing I think a team actually needs is a defensive stopper in the lane - and that person can be anywhere from 6’8 (like Rodman) to well over 7 feet, so long as he’s effective.
I personally think that the best player the Hawks could get from this draft is Hawes, who I think has Kevin McHale-esque potential (except Hawes looks more athletic). But I see Hawes going somewhere in the 7-10 range, and so it’s hard to see him getting into a Hawks uniform.
By atldave
June 14, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this
Ask Joe Dumars about the 60 minute solo workout!
By Anakin Joe
June 14, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this
atldave, there was virtually no game footage of Darko when he was drafted as an 18 year-old. Yi is 22 and there is plenty of game film to review, including an Olympic appearance against some guys named Dwight Howard, Chris Bosh and Joe Johnson.
I’m intrigued with the Milwaukee trade idea. It guarantees us either Horford, Yi or Conley. If Memphis does want Conley to run Ivaroni’s offense, then maybe we could trade AJ or Lue for Lowry, as I doubt they would have 2 rookie PGs (Lowry is basically a rookie after his injury last season). The question becomes, if you have a legit PF in Villanueva, would you add Yi to that mix? Maybe from there, we could trade Yi to GS for Biedrins and their #18 pick. Draft Crit at #11, and then Splitter at #18 and leave him in Europe for a season.
By terrell barron
June 14, 2007 9:40 PM | Link to this
Just saw another trade rumor. It had the Hawks getting Jose Calderom and Joey Graham for J-chill, Solomon Jones and the 11. I have no idea who Calderon is, but supposedly the Hawks almost drafted him a year or two ago. He is a point guard form France I think. Yall know anything about him?
By terrell barron
June 14, 2007 10:12 PM | Link to this
O.k., I’m officialy off the YI-train. I really like YI, from what I’ve seen, but after watching Tony Parker, humiliate Cleveland over and over again, we have to take Conley. I’m not saying he will be Tony Parker, but if we are going to take a chance on a player, he has to be the choice. I just dont want him to go elsewhere and become what a lot of people are saying he will. So I’m officially back with Conley. Why cant we just get both of them? If Billy could pull that off, I would forgive him for every wrong decision he has made.
By diehardhawkfan
June 14, 2007 10:31 PM | Link to this
I’m not saying that Conley will be the next Tony Parker…but..now you can see how valuable a PENETRATING, ATTACKING pg who can get in the paint is…we have two GLARING weaknesses, a true low post player and a pentreting, attacking guard…we can’t get the ONLY true low post man in the draft(Oden), but at least let’s pick up the fast, athletic smart guard, make the playoffs with a fully healthy JJ, Marvin, and JChill, and take our chances next offseason with a low post player or hopefully wait for sheldon to develop his post game (he was an 18 ppg scorer at Duke). Then let’s get Noah, a running passionate big man with a chip on his shoulder (assuming he drops to 11 in the draft). Let’s become the most exiting and most athletic team in the East and watch Phillips slowly get their fanbase back. Atlanta is one of the top 5 markets in the country for NBA…however we NEED to see improvement from our team…trust me once we start getting exciting again, the fans will come. We don’t need a gimmick like Yi to ignite our fanbase.
By ray
June 14, 2007 10:32 PM | Link to this
You know, all of this Yi talk is for naught if his “handlers”, whoever they may be, don’t like the idea of him playing in Atlanta. I hope that such is not the case with ANY potential draftee, but that would certainly hurt us.
Matt, what do you think Billy will actually do this time around?
By smartguy
June 14, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this
That’s what I’m thinkin, terrell. I wasn’t on the Conley train until very recently, but I think I’ve seen the light. Then again, I’ll still be satiated with anybody but Wright. This is the most boring Finals ever, as I am forced on the blog to find a bit of entertainment for tonight.
By Ron in Bangkok
June 14, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this
Regarding Yi: First, there is NO guarantee that he would ever play for the hawks if they drafted him. They need permission from China, and with the management mess in place I doubt that the negotiation could be consumated - and that is assuming that Yi would want to get involved in it anyway. 2) From personal experience I can assure you that Asians in Asia will not watch the Hawks just because Yi is there. Basketball is pretty big here (Thailand nicer schools all play some, Philippines has a league, China, etc.). What teams they follow, cheer, and buy jerseys from is predicated in large part by ESPN who decides which NBA teams to show here (no college games to speak of). They put winners on TV, and concentrate on a few teams (as in baseball where the Yankees are on possibly 80% of the game shown here in Thailand). If the hawks continue to lose (as they will if no true pg and no defensive presence at center) they will not get the exposure here. 3) Yi may well be able to shoot from outside, but how will he handle the physicality required of him at center? He isn’t working out against other players from what I see, and the leagues he has played in are not going to be as physical as the NBA.
I still think Noah is the best post player available to the hawks in this draft because of his defensive presence and his ability to make players around him better, and then select one of the three point guards available at 11 (or better use one of the medicore pg’s to trade up for Conley).
That brings me to a question for the fans here who certainly see more b-ball than I do here - HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO DRAFT A PLAYER THAT BRINGS SYNERGY TO A TEAM - SOMEONE THAT MAKES THE PLAYERS AROUND HIM BETTER? I would be interested to see other opinions, because I think this is likely the most important intangible to look at, and can be evaluated by how their teammates performed. Look at Oden, would he truly be the consensus 1 pick if not for a quality pg like Conley?
Conversely, look at the Galactico team at Real Madrid. They collect superstars from around the globe and have had the consensus greatest array of talent around, yet have not won any significant championships in years.
By Matt
June 14, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this
Actually, I think Tony Parker proves why you don’t need a great PG to win a title. Parker is absolutely not a pure point guard. He looks to shoot first, and only passes if he can’t create his own shot first. His game is actually pretty similar to LeBron’s in many ways - he can hit the mid-range jumper and is amazing off the dribble, but certainly has good enough court vision to pass out of trouble or set something up for his teammates when he’s not feeling it.
In other words, Parker’s primary danger is as a scorer, not as a “floor general.” That’s a critical difference between him and Conley. Conley is certainly a great PG and one I’d like to see the Hawks get, but to compare him and Parker is a huge oversimplification. Their only real similarities are that they are quick and can create off the dribble. Their mindsets and modus operandi are totally different.
In fact, the Spurs are a perfect example of a modern NBA team where every player has a PG-esque ability to read the defense, make quick passes, and find the open man. It’s why the won the title 4 years ago when Parker was far from being an elite PG.
(Note: Read that again and note that I did NOT say that we shouldn’t draft Conley; only that comparing him to Parker is inaccurate)
Ray - I don’t pretend to know, and I think not knowing makes it more fun anyway ;-). I don’t think it’ll be Wright. I could see him drafting Yi, Horford, or Conley; I could also see him trading down and using the pick on Conley. I don’t think he’ll take Wright.
By OddJob
June 14, 2007 11:42 PM | Link to this
Matt we’re close to being on the same page.I do think Parker is a great guard,whether he’s a pure point is irrelevant.If you’ve heard him talk about what Pop ask of him he knows exactly what his team needs from him to be successful.It’s good to know some people can see what Hawes can do.The only question I have is whether he is quick enough to work his whole game in the league.I think he can come close enough to make any team he’s on better.He has lot’s of skills,the thing I love is that he’ll give structure and structure means control.He can pass,shoot,he has good low post moves and he sees the court and understands the game.I won’t be disappointed if it’s Conley and Hawes.
By travis
June 15, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this
I want to congratulate all of the S.A. fans out there. It must be great celebrating 3 championships in 5yrs. As a native atlantan and season ticket holder to hawks, falcons, and thrashers, I can only imagine what a championships tastes like. Looking at the teams that made the playoffs this year especially out west, with our current team, we could not compete with any of them over a 7 game stretch. I am saying all of this to say, pick the best player at 3 and 11 that can help us compete now, even if it means trading the picks to get veteran help in here. Conley, Yi, Horford whoever…I don’t care just get some guys in here that can get us deep into the playoffs. I want that buzz that gripped atl when the falcons were on their way to the superbowl…ANYONE ELSE FEELING MY PAIN?
By terrell barron
June 15, 2007 12:42 AM | Link to this
We still need a big though, to clog up the lanes on defense. I wish we could get Sean Williams somehow, but I know we wont take him at 11. Why in the world did we trade our 2nd rdr away for AJ? I’m still confused about that.
By travis
June 15, 2007 7:47 AM | Link to this
Matt my only problem with your thesis that the conley comarison to parker is an “oversimplification.” parker wasn’t always the slasher that he is now. 4 yrs ago they were talking about how raw he was. imagine conley 4 yrs from now. he WILL be a tony parker. sayin’ that conley is NOW a tp is an overstatement, but give him the same amount of time in the league to grow and we will be wishing that we had him.
By tb
June 15, 2007 8:02 AM | Link to this
I really think Yi is the most talented player in the draft available at #3.
ou never really knoww who is going to blow up, but Yi has hands, height, speed, experience, skill, a shot and fundamentals.
As far as D he seems to play position and gets a lot of steals. He aalso knows what to do with the ball when he gets it.
I’ve never seen anyoone as quick to the rim.
Crit is the pick at #11, he is raw, but he should be coming on after one season and ready to lead the team by early 2008 or 2009.
Until then we have some players at the PG who can contribute.
Picking Yi and Crit would in no way reduce our trade poossibilities
Never pick someone elses’ player unless the trade is guaranteed.
By mountain_jim
June 15, 2007 8:21 AM | Link to this
I agree if Yi’s ‘handlers’ don’t want Yi in Atlanta and say that he will stay out of the NBA if picked here, then that keeps us from picking him and lowers the leverage Atlanta would have to trade him if they did pick him.
Between Yi and Horford being desired by several teams so much, hopefully BK can get alot of value out of 3 if he trades down or trades the pick for player(s).
By doc
June 15, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this
why would atlanta have been allowed to be involved in workouts if the handlers for yi didnt want him here?
By mavid
June 15, 2007 9:58 AM | Link to this
Yi/Horford at 3
Conley/Critt/Law/Stuckey/Trade at 11
and im happy…
The thing about Horford though, that y’all aren’t considering, is that if he does reach his predicted ceiling (a more athletic Okafor), that WILL be basically exactly what we need, and if he’s not playing for us when that happens, we will look and feel soooo stupid for passing him up.
Hopefully BK can get an accurate read on the kid. Can he play the 5? I think he can. An athletic 6 ‘10, 255 guy can play some 5 in today’s NBA.
By SSI Fan
June 15, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this
Nookah, My understanding of the ownership situation.
Belkin owns 30% of the Hawks, the Thrashers, and the building. Under the ownership agreement the other owners have the option to buy Belkins 30% interest. They have expressed the desire to exercise that option. The price of the buyout of Belkin’s share was to be set by appraisals. Belkin got the first appraisal. If the first appraisal was not satisfactory a second would be obtained and the price would be the average of the two. When the first appraisal was delivered Belkin immediately objected to it and got another (higher) appraisal. Under the agreement the other owners had a period of time to finalize the purchase. That would have required them to pay Belkin tens of millions of dollars more than he invested (I seem to recall something like a 500% profit). The other owners did not close the sale within the allowed period of time but filed a lawsuit in Maryland trying to get a Judge to declare that they had the right to get the second appraisal. Belkin filed a counterclaim. The Judge ruled that the other owners had breached the agreement by not timely closing the purchase and that Belkin has the right to Buy their combined 70% ownership for same amount as the other owners initially invested. (Who was smarter in the ownership agreement?) That decision is now on appeal to Maryland’s initial court of appeals. While the matter is unresolved, Belkin is not contributing any money for the operating loses of the teams or the arena. Under the court order the Hawks can not sign a free agent or trade for a player with a contract for longer than 3 years without the consent of Belkin.
By doc
June 15, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this
does marvin have trade value? does anyone here think that marvin has anywhere the skills that yi does or could even stay on the court with him?
if you said yes and no then what is the debate? you trade marvin for need and certainly keep yi who most argue would have to share time with marvin or maybe put him on the bench. logical, simple, no brainer. doesnt make sense to pass on a btter player because you already have the lesser model that will cost you more relatively speaking the way contracts are structured in the nba.
By mavid
June 15, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this
Doc, thats my question exactly.
And the reason I say the things about Horford is because he has become the clear-cut 3rd pick to many. Lots of teams, including Memphis and Charlotte, are REAL high on him.
So, maybe we trade the pick to those teams to get value, but we HAVE to at least strongly consider him for us. Those teams like him for a reason (and consider him a forward/center, not a pure 4).
By MsDee
June 15, 2007 10:09 AM | Link to this
I believe we should keep our picks and not trade anyone..what good is drafting players, have them play for us a couple of years, then let them go so they can continue to develop into the player we knew they could be somewhere else? Draft Conley for the PG and Noah for the PF/C so that we can have an energized PG and C playing with the already athletic players we have…and I guaranteed if we get Conley, everytime we play Portland we will be aired nationally to see how Conley plays against Oden or vice/verse. We will also see the match up with Oden and JSmoove, who will have the most blocks??
By Mike T
June 15, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
Check out the most recent podcast on draftexpress.com. Word is that everyone agrees that Atlanta is trying to decide between Wright and Horford at 3. As mentioned yesterday, Chad Ford also said that everyone else wants Horford.
As for the Charlie V rumors — NO!!! There’s a reason that would make three teams in three years for him.
I still think there is a very good chance Conley falls to 11, especially if he gets by Memphis. On draft day big men tend to rise (draftexpress has Minnesota set on Hawes at 7) and point guards tend to fall.
By JR
June 15, 2007 10:22 AM | Link to this
OK, I’m a Carolina guy, but I have to say that Brandon Wright is no Marvin Williams. Williams never started at UNC, and he may become a star, but Wright can contribute quicker and become a huge star. Does anyone remember Sam Perkins? No one, even BK, drafts at the 3rd spot, a 6’0” point guard with one year of college experience. Conley is not the second coming of Nash or even Jason Terry. You have to take Wright and hope that a decent player, big or small, is left at 11.
By NoD
June 15, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this
JJ
Brewer will be better player then Joe Johnson, Look how much better the Suns are without JJ. Brewer’s “D” like T. Prince and “O” will develop, handles the ball better then JJ. I think he will be the star of this draft. I would take him at 3 but not fit with needs ATL’s current lineup with JJ. JJ good but:
Brewer: Career Highlights: Named Most Outstanding Player of the 2007 NCAA Tournament Final Four. Earned First Team All-SEC honors as a junior and Second Team honors as a sophomore. Named the SEC Co-Defensive Player of the Year as a junior. Finished collegiate career tied for 28th on Florida’s all-time leading scoring list with 1,225 points. Also ranks fifth in career steals with 176. Ranks as Florida’s all-time scoring leader in the NCAA Tournament with 198 career points. Helped lead Florida to National Championships in 2006 and 2007, as the Gators became the first school to post back-to-back titles in 15 years.
By FSSikes
June 15, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this
What about 2 big men?
By Matt
June 15, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
Travis,
Read my comment again. I said the primary difference between them is that Parker is NOT a ‘floor general,’ while Conley is. Their main difference is their mindset, and I frankly wouldn’t want Conley to be more like Parker, because Parker is not a true point guard. I think Conley would be wasting his strengths as a floor general if he tried to become more like Parker.
So it is an oversimplification and probably always should and will be. Comparing Conley to Parker is like comparing Garnett to Duncan. Both are great at their respective positions, but the reasons why they are great are completely different.
By doc
June 15, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this
the suns fell to san antonio in 2005 before theyt won it all. most felt if jj hadnt broken his face they would have been in the cat bird’s seat to go all the way that year. the reason they lost when they did was because they didnt have jj and he tried valiently to come back in less than two weeks form a significant facial fracture. please dont come to the party with a thought that the suns are better off, they after two seasons are no better than they were with jj, that is the real story and truth not the dispersion spouted above that is without any truth.
in this draft if i could i would move marvin to get the pick for conley if i could after drafting yi. i think i could get a very defensive minded five to come here as a free agent in a heart beat with that kind of team developing.
By Matt
June 15, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this
Thankfully, we aren’t gonna trade Marvin. Come on, Doc, boy’s 20 years old. You’re giving up on him after two seasons? What happens if he has a Deng-like breakout year this year (which I think is entirely possible, if not probable)?
We’ll never develop into a playoff team if we are that impatient with waiting for our talent to develop.
By mountain_jim
June 15, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this
I believe if BK drafts a 200 pound weakling at 3 (Wright) then he is slitting his own throat, because Wright is in no way ready to compete at his position next year.
A poster with supposed ‘connections’ at the Squawk said every team except San Antonio has contacted BK at least once about what it would take to trade for the #3 - he probably believes he needs to trade for vets to win now either to save this job or for his resume for his next attempt at one (if Belkin wins).
So hopefully every day pre-draft the #3’s value is rising, and so far BK appears to be playing this well this year, unless imo he is serious about picking Wright.
By newkid
June 15, 2007 11:15 AM | Link to this
“in this draft if i could i would move marvin to get the pick for conley if i could after drafting yi.”
Put me down for the doc’s RX.
By mavid
June 15, 2007 11:26 AM | Link to this
Yeah Matt, I still see big things coming from Marvin. Dude is still figuring out what exactly he needs to do to be successful in this league. But, with THAT much talent and coachability, I think he;’ll be fine. I was agreeing with Doc’s question about Yi’s handlers, not his question about Marvin’s value.
I like the JJ, MW, JS core a lot. It really has potential to be special in 2-3 years.
NoD
I’d wait until Brewer actually plays a game in the league before definitively saying he will be better than JJ, an all-star (who will continue to be one) who is on Team USA (and got a lot of minutes last summer because of his versatility).
Also, anyone saying the Suns are BETTER off without JJ just don’t know what they’re talking about. A player like JJ who can create for himself is the ONE missing ingredient the Suns have been looking for.
By Volman
June 15, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this
NoD, I hate over-zealous Florida Gator fans. I have lots of friends who like Florida, and it’s as if that’s the only college in America.
Who do you want the Hawks to pick?
*#3:Brewer
*#11:Horford
*Trade Joe Johnson, Speedy Claxton, Shelden, and Josh Smith for early picks in order to get Noah and Taurean Green.
Wow, with a “Championship” lineup of Horford, Noah, Green, and Brewer, the Hawks could just throw some “scrub” out there and they’ll be holding that trophy up next year! Right?
Yeah, right.
By G Money
June 15, 2007 12:04 PM | Link to this
I think that the HAWKS have to gamble and take Yi at 3 (if you call that gambling). While a good point guard is necessary - not just a serviceable one - inside presence is what one needs. Duncan wasn’t always the center. Gasol isn’t a center. Camby was a stick when he came out of college. Garnett was a wire. Yi could develop into any one of those kinds of players and we’d all be very happy and buying season tickets instead of the NBA package on TV. I know neither Yi nor Conley will be there at 11. Ain’t gonna happen. If I’m picking poison, I’m picking the Far East elixer at 3. At 11, I’m picking best available pg or I’m ideally trying to move up to get Conley. It’s pretty straight forward.
By doc
June 15, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
read the earlier asssessment matt on where marvin fits in with a talent like yi. i dont think he holds a candle to yi in any regard now or in the future. if he has to go to get both yi and conley i would go for it. please tell me why you might not when considering the team as a whole. tough decisions have to be made. if i could have both fine but i would rather have tiger than phil any day on my team or to bet on. comparison may not be too far off.
By newkid
June 15, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
Often in the NBA, and in fact in other sporting ventures, what separates the talented players who ‘would be great’ from those who actually become great is the fire that burns inside that pushes them to do the things off the court that’ll make them the undisputed best (of their class) on the court. In Marvin @ 20 many see a respository of talent that pretty clearly indicates he could be a huge impact player; someone other teams feared. I certainly do. What I haven’t seen in his two years is the roaring fire in the belly; the determination every time he steps on the court to make the guy opposite him sorry he ever stepped on the court as his adversary. Great kid, super potential, but little sign of petro in the tank from which to support a raging fire. Would much rather play video games than work like hell to beat the snot of the likes of Bruce Bowen, Tayshaun Prince, and Rashard Lewis or any other 3 who dared step up to challenge him on the court. If he had the fire, he’s definitely an untouchable component within the core; without it he’s a talent to be used to get a more significant ingredient. Where’s the fire?
By Stinger
June 15, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this
Mike T - please post a link to the draft express podcast.
Doc - Maybe Yi would report to Atlanta if drafted but what if he did not - can you imagine the uproar if Atlanta followed in the step of Orlando and drafted out own Fran Vasquez @# 3 vs #11 (who after 3 years still does not want to play in the NBA). If you were a domestic college players the chance of you moving to europe or asia to play ball would be nil - who wants to leave home for a strange land) but for Yi coming from a communist country where others do have influence over his decisions and can pressure his relatives who remain behind - It is a concern. All I ask is that BK must do his diligence if he wants Yi - he must be agreeable to playing here else the risk exceeds the reward.
By Matt
June 15, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this
I say keep both, and see who develops. Maybe Yi can play the 5, which would allow both Marvin and Yi to start (along with Smith and JJ). Maybe his handlers will decide that it’s better to keep him in China until after the Beijing Olympics. Or maybe Yi will turn out to be the next Pavel Podkolzine.
We quite literally do not know what we’ll be getting with Yi. We might be getting a star, or we might (again, literally) be getting nothing at all.
And I don’t think Marvin’s worth giving up to get Conley at this point. I still think Marvin could be a star, and I’m not sure Conley will be a great PG at the next level. Lord knows there’s been plenty of athletic lottery-bound PGs who’ve been busts - even supposedly proven winners like Mateen Cleaves.
Lastly, I think it’s a moot point. No way will a team trade back to 11 from 4-7 (which is where we’d need to go to get Conley) unless they’re getting more than Marvin. They’ll probably want a future pick as well.
By mavid
June 15, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
lol volman
By mavid
June 15, 2007 12:38 PM | Link to this
lol volman
By Neil
June 15, 2007 1:00 PM | Link to this
We need to trade the 11 pick with either Phoenix or Charlotte for their two lower picks and take Sean Williams of BC and BPA with the other.
By Volman
June 15, 2007 1:03 PM | Link to this
You know it’s true, my man Mavid!! haha.
By Anakin Joe
June 15, 2007 1:15 PM | Link to this
If Yi is cut from the same cloth as AK47, Marion and Smith, then it seems like keepig Marvin would be the right move. If Yi is ultimately going to play somewhere from 10-18 feet out, having Marvin shooting 18-20 footers makes sense to me. Let’s face it, we wil likely HAVE to keep both Marvin and Smith, since we don;t have enough big contracts to move to get equal value back. Smith plays like a $10M player yet makes less than $2M. Marvin’s value should be at least along the lines of $8M. So until we can sign and trade them, I’m guessing that we will keep these guys. Sure, it creates a helluva log-jam, but how many guys on the rookie scale are worth trading Josh or Marvin for (that may actually be available for a trade)? Bynum? Yeah, I’d probably trade Marvin or Smith for Bynum and drft Yi (or Horford), but the Lakers have to bring in a vet star to appease Kobe and I don’t think Smith (and certainly not Marvin) is what Kobe would want. So, if BK is smart, he’ll hold out for another year with Smith and see what unfolds.
By St. Bernard
June 15, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this
Can people who have never seen the great Chinese hope play really say he’s better than Marvin???? Where do you guys get that info???
Villanueva has played on two teams in two years. If I’m not mistaken he received ROY votes in the Chris Paul year, and he scored 50+ in at least one game. He was a hot commodity that got Toronto a pg that they desperately needed (TJ Ford). (Maybe a lesson to everyone here that a pg with less ability can sometimes be of more value than a big man with more value because the pg can make those around him better.)
Gasol is a center.
Yi is really tall, but I’m not sure he’s a center or desires to be a center.
I won’t die if we don’t pick Conley at three (I do think it will be a huge mistake, unless we trade down for him.)Horford or Yi wouldn’t be the end of the world. Brendan Wright might be.
A couple of lower picks to take a Sean Williams or even a really low pick to take Jared Jordan (I think he led the nation in assists two years in a row.)might not be a huge mistake.
By Ken Strickland
June 15, 2007 2:29 PM | Link to this
I just finished rereading all of the scouting reports on the various players that will be available to the Hawks. As far as big men go, Horford seems to be the best choice, especially at #3. He’s a legit 6’10”, plays a lot bigger, and he’s physical and aggressive on both ends. Next to Oden, he’s the best combination of strength, aggressiveness, shot blocking, rebounding, running the floor, speed and quickness.
He would be a very good fit in combination with our strong rebounding, shot blocking, floor running JSmooth. He’d give us a physical presence in the middle, and make a good compliment to Zaza. One would be Mr inside, the other Mr outside, and both would give us strong rebounding. He’d be a better fit for the conservative half court OFF philosophy of coach Woody, than Yi. Personally, I think Yi could be rotated accross the front line to create mismatch nightmares, in the right system. No matter who we draft at PG, he’s not likely to start, because that distinction will go to Speedy, if he’s healthy. That’s why I don’t see us using our #3 on a PG. For some reason, the majority of the mock drafts have us drafting Wright out of NC. They rest have us taking Conley or Horford.
If we take Conley at #3, you can bet there’ll be a trade involving our #11 pick. There won’t be a 5 available at #11 that could help us significantly. Conley isn’t my preference at #3, but I won’t be upset with the pick, just a little disappointed. After all, we can certainly use a young, quality PG.
Well, we have about 2 more weeks to play armchair GM, and present our preferences. In the end, nothing we say, think or feel matters. It’s all up to BK, Woody, and the constraints imposed by ownership and the courts. Remember, we have no 2nd rd pick this yr, and no 1st rd pick next yr. Therefore, we are drafting for the next 2yrs NOW. We had better get it right, because our next chance to draft a quality BIG will be 2009. GOOD LUCK HAWKS!!!!!
By The Flash
June 15, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this
food for thought: Word in Chicago papers is that Duhon is on the blocks; too much night life for Skiles’ taste.
By Diego
June 15, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this
The Hawks should trade for Chris Duhon. Give Chicago Childress or Wright. Duhon would be the much needed floor general. With the 3rd pick they should take Horford and then maybe Crittenton with 11. Crittenton would be able to learn the pro game and be ready in a couple of years to be a star.
If the Hawks can get an early second round pick there are a few big, defensive centers that will still be available.
By diehardhawkfan
June 15, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this
so diego, that would be the 4th backup point guard on our roster…
so now we’ve become the haven for backup point guards and tweener power forward/centers (assuming that we draft horford).
By St. Bernard
June 15, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
No way is Duhon worth Childress, and he’s a duplicate of the other 30 back-up pgs we already have. We either draft Conley or we go after a vet pg (Mo Williams). If we don’t draft Conley, we have to get two quality bigs with these picks.
By Tyger
June 15, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this
FRIGHTENING, SEE THE FUTURE
GOTO: WWW.NBADRAFT.NET
select Draft History, goto 2000
see Mateen Cleaves analysis and grade
goto: 2007
see Mike Conley analysis and grade
By G Money
June 15, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this
So Ken, what are you saying about Yi as a member of the Hawks team?
By Nick
June 15, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this
2007 - 2007 ATLANTA HAWKS TEAM STATISTICS
PPG - 93.7 (30th overall)
FG% - 44.43 (28th overall)
3PT% - 33.3 (30th overall)
APG - 19.2 (26th overall)
A/TO Ratio - 1.26 (28th overall)
Considering we rank almost dead last in these categories, isn’t Conley the obvious choice? Here’s a PG that can create his own shot, set up his teammates, handle the ball, and scouts say his floater is similar to Tony Parker’s.
Stop making this so hard, people! Yi doesn’t fit in on this team! Horford is Sheldon Williams version 2.0! You’ve all been wanting a point guard for two drafts now. We can take the best one in the draft and you all are talking yourselves out of it!
By The Flash
June 15, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this
diehard, everybody needs their niche, right? Maybe a multiplayer deal; they have that tweener white 6’7” power forward(?) on the blocks too.
By Tyger
June 15, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this
CONLEY IS MATEEN CLEAVES REINCARNATED
By nookah
June 15, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this
SSIFan, thanks for the info!!!! Greatly appreciated!!
Nuff Respect!!!
GO HAWKS!!!!
By diehardhawkfan
June 15, 2007 3:28 PM | Link to this
Wow, Tyger, you’re right…I just looked at the 2001 draft and they gave kwame brown a 111 rating, higher than Greg Oden’s 106. Brown will have a much better career than Oden.
By clint
June 15, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this
i agree with ken that horford is the next best big available after oden. I don’t believe there will be a servicable 5 available with #11.
However, we are hurting so much for a point that can push the ball up the court we probably have to take Conley at #3. The only two guys we have that push the ball are the two joshes. None of our points know how to run a break. Every time you hear an analyst speak of the hawks, which is seldom, you hear how these guys aren’t bad in the open court, but they almost never get in the open court. We need speed to push the ball.
good luck bk and woody, hope you get it right
By diehardhawkfan
June 15, 2007 3:36 PM | Link to this
Nick, that’s why we’re hawks fans…every year we complain about how sorry our pgs are and i wish we would have drafted this pg over our current forward, but then once the draft comes around, we still look to add another forward because we claim that our pick is too high to draft a pg. but yet we’ll always going to have a high pick meaning we’re never draft a pg.
By michael m.
June 15, 2007 3:41 PM | Link to this
both tony parker and mike conley are floor generals. just because parker is now a major threat offensively and has expanded his game with a jumpshot that forces defenders to play him more honestly, doesn’t mean he isn’t. sometimes the ability to hit that shot helps open up other options for the offense. parker is a floor general just as conley is.
glad to see we have more occupants on the conley train. apparently it’s parker’s play that has been responsible for selling the tix onto the conley caravan.
according to insiders, both noah and hawes may be there at 11. yes, there is a chance hawes goes as early as 7 and noah at 8, but i’m just reporting what i read. i say we roll the dice on it happening. if we can get charlie v out of moving down 3 spots, i am willing to throw the dice there. seems like horford, wright, and yi will go 3 thru 5. i look at charlie v as a piece that we can move later on for something of real value. he has monster games at times and could come in handy.
i see us with a deep, athletic team that can run teams out of the gym due to our quality depth. it will give us an edge that other teams cannot compete with. the key is getting the players to buy into getting back on defense and not just pushing it on offense.no one would need to play more than 35 minutes on many nights. getting conley, charlie v, and noah out of this draft, all on rookie contracts, bodes well for our future. and by future, i mean starting THIS SEASON.
and the spirit + bk should really start looking into what coaching candidates would thrive running an uptempo team like that. i think woodsen will be coaching against type, and it will be imperative that we get a bright guy in here with new ideas, energy, good with substitutional patters and relating to the player, and with a staff that really understands x’s and o’s.
By DekaturKing
June 15, 2007 3:44 PM | Link to this
Mateen Cleaves Was slow and fat. No way is Conley anything like that!
By wtf
June 15, 2007 3:56 PM | Link to this
Im sorry but the analysis between Conley and Cleaves was nothing alike on nbadraft.net. Maybe you read one thing and ignored the majority of what they said about Conley. Cleaves and Conley games are nothinggggg alike so please stop with that…Nick trust me i feel the same way and basically said the same thing the other day. People on here cried and moaned about a pg now that they can get the best one in this years draft they are finding every reason not to take him. That is mindboggling. Please explain to me how YI who has never played one nba game already better than Marvin Williams? I like Hortford but like someone said he is no better than Sheldon. We cant take a pf and try to force him to play center. We are going to take away from his game thus making him a lot less effective than he would be at his natural position. Damn do the hawks front office just not get it. This is not rocket science…. TAKE CONLEY AND TRY TO GET CAMBY WITH THE 11TH PICK. If they wont take the 11 for Camby trade down pick up some more parts and get Sean Williams.
By Clyde
June 15, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
Can yall imagine
Oden-C Aldridge-pf Z.Randolph-sf Roy-sg Jack-pg
Dam
FIRE BILLY AND WOODY
By diehardhawkfan
June 15, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this
Honestly, I dont think memphis has any interest in brendan wright…they already have mike miller, rudy gay, paul gasol, and hakim warrick. Brendan wright is just another long lanky pf. They want conley. chucky atkins is a free agent, lowry is coming off of major wrist surgury, and stoudamire will be out of the league in two years. They’re tricking the hawks into thinking that horford is better than what he really is…so they’re throwing the bluff out…conley is the only pg who can run their up-tempo offense.
Drafting horford at 3 would be horrendous. He has little upside…he didnt play the 5 at FL…why all of a sudden can he play the 5 now, he’s undersized, oden ate him for breakfast in the championship game…sheldon at duke was a better defender, rebounder, and low post scorer…horford is more athletic with a better mid range game. Is he THAT much of an upgrade over sheldon to deserve a 3 pick? I saw FL play intimately over the last two years…horford is VERY inconsistent…he’ll show flashes of brilliance and then they’ll be times when he’ll disappear during the middle of the game.
By michael m.
June 15, 2007 4:13 PM | Link to this
diehard, i was thinking about what you were saying in your speculation about if we traded the #3 for the #6 and villanueva, and that memphis then might nab conley at #4. a week ago i was worried about that, but then was hearing that if memphis traded gasol to us for a package that included the #3 pick, they would turn around and draft both horford and wright to be their 5 and 4 spots of the future.
now, if we leveraged the #3 pick to a team wanting horford like milwalkuee, a couple things could occur. first, memphis might lower their gasol demands to us in fear that they would lose out on horford, who i think they really want at #4. secondly, if we did the milwalkuee trade, perhaps memphis would decide that wright doesn’t pair up well with gasol and select conley instead. that would most definitely pain me. because at #5, i think boston would take yi or brewer or trade the pick. let’s assume that they take yi at #5. perhaps we could turn around a swing a deal with the bobcats whereby they would trade raymond felton, the #8 and #22 picks to us in exchange for the #6 and #11. that way, charlotte could land the hometown pf they need in brandan wright. plus there has been speculation that charlotte isn’t sure if felton is the ideal distributor they want for the future, and with the #11 they could pick a future pg like crittenton to take over for brevin knight. so at least we would have a strategy to deal with every possible scenario. since i think minny would take brewer at #7, we could take noah or hawes at #8. ray felton would be our uptempo pg to pair with jj, marvin and smoove. villanueva would back up the forwards as the scorer off the bench but also could be used as a trade piece in the next couple years.
anyway, that scenario just ran through my head as a way of dealing with the potential problem of both conley, yi and horford being gone by the time the #6 pick rolls around. i still think there would be a good chance conley was there at #6 because memphis drafted lowry last year and he played well for them before getting injured. however, i agree lowry isn’t in conley’s league so there’s just no way to know right now what they would do.
i will have to give it all some more thought. i still really want us to come away with conley in this draft. and if it ends up where we come out of the draft with only conley and noah, i cannot say i would be disappointed.
By Matt
June 15, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this
All who think that having Sean Williams, Salim Stoudamire, and Josh Smith in the same locker room will be a good idea, raise your hands. shakes head
And I still will never understand why people are so married to the idea that every team in the league needs a great point guard to be a great team.
How many rings do the following point guards have between them: Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Tim Hardaway, and Chris Paul?
(Answer: 0)
And how many rings do the following point guards have between them as a starting PG: B.J. Armstrong, John Paxson, Derek Fisher, Kenny Smith, and Ron Harper.
(Answer: 11)
What we need a great defensive presence in the paint, which IS something that every team that’s won a title since 1980 has had.
So everyone who says “We absolutely, positively need Conley and the whole universe will implode if we don’t” (or something to that effect)…chill out.
By tp
June 15, 2007 4:34 PM | Link to this
I agree michael m: I would be happy if we came away with Conley and Noah.
I’d then look, post-draft, for some deals to unload T. Lue. Would love to get rid of Speedy, but we’d have to accept a bad contract in return. I like Lue, but his expiring contract could possibly net a serviceable back-up big or a project-type player (like Solomon).
Conley could be brought along slowly (as a back-up to AJ and Speedy) and Noah would bring instant energy and effort on defense(a nice back-up to Zaza).
By tp
June 15, 2007 4:47 PM | Link to this
Matt: Your argument is valid, but who is the “great defensive presence” in the draft available after Oden?
If you’re thinking trade to get one, good luck convincing someone like J O’Neal to come here - not happening. He’ll be in LA, NY or Indy next year. JSmooth is your starting PF (and not going anywhere according to Sekou), so the trade would have to be for a C.
Who do we trade for?
By mavid
June 15, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this
I’d love to get Felton, that’s for sure.
Take Hawes at 8.
Stuckey or Sean Williams at 22.
And i like that trade.
Felton/Speedy Joe/Stuckey (?) Marvin/Chill Smoove/Shelly Zaza/Hawes/Williams(?)
I still think we could maybe do better, but NO pg in this draft is going to be as good as Felton for at least 2-3 years (I don’t think Charlotte gives up Felton that easily anyways… We’d have to throw in CHill probably)
By The 'Slum' or the 'Land' Lord
June 15, 2007 4:52 PM | Link to this
Here’s one story I’d love to read Sekou: a summer update of Sheldon.
Will he be the Lord of the Slum or the Land next year? How did he think last season went for him? What’s he doing this summer to improve his game? Is he going to be pushed around again next year, or does he plan to do some pushing? Will we see him play with some passion?
By I FEEL YOU
June 15, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
Gary Payton has a ring lmao. I see what your saying but this is a team that needs a pg. We dont get much movement on the offensive end what so ever. Our pf leads our fast break. JJ has to take up a lot of the ball handing responsibilities thus making him less effective. Imagine a pg feeind him the rock in good positions rather than him trying to make a play for someone else. We need someone to create easy shots for our talented wings. As far as the pgs you listed. Chris Paul has only been in the NBA two years and the Horents have improved dramatically with him on the court. Can the Hawks say they have improved much in the last 2 years? We know the answer to that one. Steve Francis in my eyes was always a shootin guard playing point. He was more intrested in scoring that setting up his teammates. Jason Kidd would have won a ring but he ran up against the Spurs plus he never had a lot of talent around him in my opinion… Tim Hardaway best chance was probably in Miami because those Golden State teams while fun to watch didnt have much talent either but thats my opinion too. Baron Davis hasnt one a ring but think about it. Look what the Warriors did with a great Healthy pg. Without B Diddy they dont even sniff the playoffs. Hell if CP never gets hurt the Hornets make the playoffs easily so basically pgs are needed. On real gm some guy did a lot of research and basically came with the numbers to prove his claim. Only two teams really made the playoffs without good pg play. The Lakers and Cavs but they have Lebron and Kobe.The Hawks have nothing close to that. So if you dont have a effective pg you better have a superstar player to hide that fact and the Hawks dont have that. I like JJ but he doesnt get the respect from the refs that a Kobe or Lebron gets.
By I FEEL YOU
June 15, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
Gary Payton has a ring lmao. I see what your saying but this is a team that needs a pg. We dont get much movement on the offensive end what so ever. Our pf leads our fast break. JJ has to take up a lot of the ball handing responsibilities thus making him less effective. Imagine a pg feeind him the rock in good positions rather than him trying to make a play for someone else. We need someone to create easy shots for our talented wings. As far as the pgs you listed. Chris Paul has only been in the NBA two years and the Horents have improved dramatically with him on the court. Can the Hawks say they have improved much in the last 2 years? We know the answer to that one. Steve Francis in my eyes was always a shootin guard playing point. He was more intrested in scoring that setting up his teammates. Jason Kidd would have won a ring but he ran up against the Spurs plus he never had a lot of talent around him in my opinion… Tim Hardaway best chance was probably in Miami because those Golden State teams while fun to watch didnt have much talent either but thats my opinion too. Baron Davis hasnt one a ring but think about it. Look what the Warriors did with a great Healthy pg. Without B Diddy they dont even sniff the playoffs. Hell if CP never gets hurt the Hornets make the playoffs easily so basically pgs are needed. On real gm some guy did a lot of research and basically came with the numbers to prove his claim. Only two teams really made the playoffs without good pg play. The Lakers and Cavs but they have Lebron and Kobe.The Hawks have nothing close to that. So if you dont have a effective pg you better have a superstar player to hide that fact and the Hawks dont have that. I like JJ but he doesnt get the respect from the refs that a Kobe or Lebron gets.
By mavid
June 15, 2007 4:55 PM | Link to this
I admit Sean Williams is a bit of wishful thinking, but his skill-set IS exactly what we need. You’re righ tho, its risky.
By Something Different Than Draft Talk
June 15, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this
I was thinking, since t-shirts at games are the new thing how about a Hawk red t-shirt with “NO EXCUSES” written in yellow on the front and maybe a little old school hawks logo underneath.
No promise of playoffs to the season ticket holders…none of that.
Let’s just show everyone that we are tired of it and ready to play. If someone gets hurt, we should have someone ready to play. Isn’t that the point of having all these 6’9 versatile guys. Year 4 for the Josh’s, year 3 for Marv. This is it no matter what we should win 40+ games.
Now I know we won’t need many t-shirts as no one goes to the games, so that is why I am giving away this idea for free.
By Tyger
June 15, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this
Mateen Cleaves was a scrappy PG that led his team to an NCAA championship. He was a floor leader and defender with a suspect jumpshot but surrounded by great players he compensated with hustle and effort.
Conley is a scrappy PG that led his team deep into the NCAA. He is a floor leader and defender with a suspect jumpshot but surrounded by great players he compensates with hustle and effort.
By diehardhawkfan
June 15, 2007 5:23 PM | Link to this
mavid, being from Duke, I had the priviledge of watching about 50+ games of Felton at UNC (I haven’t had a chance to watch him to watch in the pros)….
The thing about Felton is atheletically he was probably the top pg coming out of the draft in terms of speed, quickness, and explosiveness…the problem is Felton is his decisionmaking. He’s a very inconsistent decisionmaker. He was like a 40% career shooter at UNC with a very low assist to turnover ratio. You would think those numbers would improve but they havent…his shooting percentage is actually worse this year than it was his rookie year (38%…which is HORRIBLE)….
Conley on the other hand was at 52% with the one of the top assist-to-turnover ratios in the country, almost unheard of for a freshman pg. He will be a MUCH better pro than Felton, trust me…i’ve seen them both play extensively.
By OddJob
June 15, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this
It’s one thing to be positive it’s a real short trip to unrealistic.Maybe this team will change the way champions are made in the NBA.Last night the oldest team in the league finised demolishing a less experienced one.This isn’t the exception it’s the law.All champions have very smart,very talented veteran players.Veteran doesn’t mean a 23 year old in his third season.It means a thirty or thirty five year old in his second decade in the league.So go ahead and think that in two years we’ll win a title with JJ at 26 the one significant player over twenty five.Dream on!
By jhan
June 15, 2007 6:04 PM | Link to this
Doc, what have you seen from Yi that makes you think he will be so good? All the video I’ve seen looks like he’s playing against high school players. Maybe you’ve seen some I haven’t.
I also heard/read that he had a very hard time scoring/defending against Wang in private workouts. Wang can’t even see the floor in the NBA. What will he do against legit players?
I see the marketing aspect you are talking about. Anything to creat a buzz around the Hawks should be considered. Don’t you think a winning record will create some buzz?
I still say Conley & whatever big is left for us at #11. Make a trade. Make several trades. I just don’t think Yi is the answer.
By OddJob
June 15, 2007 7:34 PM | Link to this
This is part two of my above post.I read post after post that try to determine which players can help this team to the playoffs.In my opinion the test should be, can a player be a valuable member of a championship team.Only a few can be the stars,the rest need to be roll players.They also need to be basketball smart and unselfish.The plan should be to identify players with the best long term value,who also fit the mold of what the team is trying to build to.Then in a year or two determine which of the young guys will be pieces of the championship puzzle.Move the rest for veteran talent.The bulls know this route well.Ben Wallace was a move in the right direction.I think Hawes is their guy in this draft. He looks like he fits the mold of a championship contributor.
By mountain_jim
June 15, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this
Y’all read Sekou’s article on Horford tonight?
By no
June 15, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
NO Mateen Cleaves was scrappy, Conley is good. They dont have one similar trait other than playing pg in my opinion. Cleaves did not possess Conley’s speed , athleticism, or decision making ability so your really reaching. You might be the only person in the world who wold make such a dumb comarison.. Conley is similar to TJ Ford and Tony Parker (speed and etc). I read the article on Hortford. I like AL a lot but I cant support this team taking another power foward when the glaring weakness is pg and a true center. Hortford is better suited at power foward I think moving him to Center takes away from his game but that is just my opinon. We cant keep taking guys high in the lottery just to have them sit on the bench. I love that t shirt idea because at this point that is exactly how i feel. …“NO EXCUSES”.. non what so freaking ever. its time to get this right.
By honest_abe
June 15, 2007 8:18 PM | Link to this
sekou: thanks for the great article on horford. it was a nice read.
a few thoughts.
tyger: the cleaves/conley comparison is waaaaaay off base my friend. conley is 10 times more athletic/faster than cleaves and that’s the bottom line.
whoever said horford would be a tragedy, you are sadly mistaken. he’s probably the next surest thing after oden and durant. i’ve always liked horford i just wasn’t sure if he had superstar potential but out of everyone after oden and durant i think he’s the player most likely to have a very solid nba career.
everyone on the villnueva train i just don’t understand you guys. does he have skills? of course, he’s a very large offensive juggernaut, but like aj said why has he bounced around so much in his early career? could it be he’s a headcase and he plays absolutely no defense. doesn’t sound like the type of player i’d want on my team.
jhan: nobody know’s what yi’s capable of. that’s the thing. you can’t say he’s going to be a bust just as much as others can’t say he’s going to be great. but one thing that is apparent from the video is that he’s a 7 footer with a nice outside shot. he’s a 7 footer with very good speed and he’s also very athletic. take that info for what its worth….
my stance on the draft now has opened up considerably.
i’ll be happy if the hawks end up with any of the following players.
yi, horford, conley, crittenton (preference not necessarily in that order)
i will break my tv if the hawks select
brandan wright, noah, jeff green…
By Steve B.
June 15, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this
HA HA HA J-ROCK nice try but really WEAK. I’m shocked you would come off like that, but I guess I gave you more credit than you deserve. I never said Marvin was better, I didn’t even hint at it. I said heart was the diff. To give up Marvin and #3 for #2, boarders on just dumb. Marvin is in his 3rd season, his breakout year and your giving that up for nothing. Use your brain if they really want YI why would you give up more than you have to. At #4 Yi won’t be their, Because we take him at #3 to force their hand. If they trade with someone below us so what make them pay for our pick. You guys that take the first thing offerd give up way to much. Think of it as selling your house are you going to accept the 1rst under bid just to move on knowing they really want the house, or are you holding your ground and waiting for the right price. J-rock I didn’t come at you, but if your going to come at me STEP YOUR GAME UP AND DO YOUR HOME WORK. That wasn’t even A challenge.
By TR
June 15, 2007 8:45 PM | Link to this
thank the lord basketball is over.. i guess the draft is tomorrow.. inforce the rules and i’ll start watching… nothing exciting to me watching someone 7’ tall dunk a basketball after walking 15’ to do it !!! it’s almost as exciting as wrestling… all fake !!!
By get this kid
June 15, 2007 8:56 PM | Link to this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=UfK31hGU-Po&mode=related&search=……. the other videos are good too. if you have a chance check out the videos of the other players…. memphis seems to be on the conley bandwagon…. get conley hawks.
By terrell barron
June 15, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this
Conley at 3 Williams at 11 TAKE A CHANCE ON THIS GUY, BILLY. HE’S THE TRUTH.
By ray
June 15, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this
Ken,
My man. That was so well written, from top to bottom. I think nearly everyone loses sight of the fact that absolutely NOTHING said on this board has ANYTHING to do with what actually happens within the Hawks organization. Of course, you can say that (and I have said it many times in the past myself), but people will ignore it (don’t ask why, but arrogance and narcissism comes to mind).
tp, now that’s the question, isn’t it? As often as it has been asked, especially among those who keep insisting on success being derived only from having a big enforcer down low, there just doesn’t seem to be a clear answer. Funny, ain’t it? No clear low post enforcer to be named after Oden, and no answer on who (and how) we get such a player through trade/free agency. Hilarious. Just for God’s sake, don’t go get a pg. No, that only promotes failure.
Having a low post enforcer, big, or whatever you wish to call it, is necessary. But what really wins it all? Discipline, certainly. But what else? STAR POWER. Let’s start with Matt’s analogy. Lemme see here…B.J. Armstrong, John Paxson, and Ron Harper. What did they have in common REALLY? Is it that they were “serviceable” pgs, and not elite? Or was there commonality based on…Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen (and yes, Dennis Rodman)? How about Derek Fisher? Uh..can you say Shaq and Kobe? Kenny Smith doesn’t even belong in this group. While not necessarily “elite”, he was head and shoulders above all the aforementioned pg types. Easily. Oh..and he had Drexler and Olajuwon.
Two teams that buck that whole theory? Cleveland and New York. Both were victims of greater star power, not greater low post play. Both were beaten soundly by the Bulls. Yes, I know Horace Grant was good, and Dennis Rodman was an exceptional enigma. But were they truly greater than Patrick Ewing and the ultra-tough Charles Oakley? How about Cleveland with Brad Daugherty and the shot-blocking demon known as Larry Nance? No, it’s star power that makes the difference. If you have more of it, you win. You have to have enough star power along with solid role players.
One of the very few exceptions may be the Spurs. And the reason for that is an incredible team discipline and exceptional role players. While their stars may be fewer or less lustrous overall (compared to a Shaq/Kobe-led team for example), their role players are better than just about anybody else’s.
So, does this team have any star power, besides JJ? Is JJ the kind of star who can lead his team really far? Or does he need help? My point is simply this: yes, we need help down low so freaking bad that it’s just sick. But we need help in the backcourt badly too. If JJ isn’t on the level of a guy like Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, or Wade, then you better have somebody next to him that’s as good or nearly as good as he is. And that’s not all. Failing that or not, your point guard better be closer to great than serviceable if you want to get anywhere.
I’m sorry, but saying “just get a good big” and “don’t worry about pgs, we have 4 already” isn’t going to cut it. Yeah, we had 4 of them, but we had such inconsistency and failure out of that position all last season. Some have to go, and we need a new younger one. No, that doesn’t mean draft Conley at #3. Or Law, or any other pg. That means quit ignoring a nasty, glaring need that was not met last year, despite some misguided effort to do so. The low post definitely can’t be ignored, but on a team like this, pg or whatever backcourt position next to JJ can’t be ignored either.
By michael m.
June 15, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this
tyger,
are you kidding me? cleeves was sloooow, could not break down a defense to save his life. kid had no quicks. comparing him to conley is idiotic.
By A-ville Ranger
June 15, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this
Terrell why in the wide,wide world of sports would you spend the 11 on a second round player (S Williams).I just don’t believe you bring a troubled guy like him to a young team either.If Horford looks like he’ll be a Carlos Boozer it doesn’t matter how many forwards we have.You’ve got’a think seriously about picking him.The team will need tradeable players in a couple of years anyway when they finish building with a couple of real good vets.
By A-ville Ranger
June 15, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this
Ray I think the Spurs have three roll playing stars. Duncan is as good as any player in the league.Parker and Genobili both can penetrate,shoot,pass and defend.These three give you every element a champion needs from their top guys.They do have plenty of smart veteran roll players too.They’re just a team…with a huge T.
By diehardhawkfan
June 15, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this
Hey guys, I just want to quickly run down BK’s draft picks over the last 4 years…and this is assuming that he drafts Horford with the 3rd pick…
2007 1st round Al Horford (PF/C) 2006 1st round Sheldon Williams (PF/C) 2006 2nd round Solomon Jones (PF) 2005 1st round Marvin Williams (SF/FF) 2004 1st round Josh Childress(SF) 2004 1st round Josh Smith (SF/PF) 2004 2nd round Donta Smith (SF) (has that ever happened before, has 3 small forwards ever gotten picked in the same draft by the same team) 2003 1st round Boris Diaw (SF)
That’s 8 forwards picked in the last 5 drafts…what is his infatuation with forwards…can someone PLEASE explain?
By ray
June 15, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this
Doc, I think it’s fairly simple. Why keep a team like the Hawks in the mix for Yi? Because we currently own the third pick in the draft. We are a major player simply because we are in a position to pick Yi and trade him to a team he’d rather play for, or trade the pick altogether for something we want from a team that wants Yi, and that he in turn, wants to play for. Whether or not Yi’s people like Atlanta, we’re a major.player in this part of this game. Then again, they may not be paying attention to us at all. Was Atlanta’s staff invited or was it more like this: “Anybody who wants to come see Yi for any reason, you have to come to LA at this time to see him.” But that’s the pessimist’s view. The optimist’s view says the ATL was invited because the ATL is a place being considered as Yi’s destination. God only knows which it is….
Honest Abe, nice solid commentary there. I agree, Horford is probably the most solid big man after Oden. I’d be happy to have him, really. Well, I’d scream bloody murder if he turned out to be little more than a scrub. But I don’t see that happening. In college, you can kind of get away with inconsistency. How else do you explain a guy like Brandan Wright getting the attention he gets? And as for Horford getting beaten by a guy who is the absolute best big man from this year’s college scene…I think he just about handled everybody. That’s why it’s a team game. Seems to me that Florida wont that game. Besides, I’d rather have a guy that had a tough time with a guy like Oden, than have a guy who got owned by Tyler Hansbrough…more than once. Yes, that would be Shelden Williams. Sorry, but Horford is not another Shelden.
As for Yi, he remains a talented mystery, particularly for those of us who aren’t on the magical inside of things. I don’t see where drafting Yi and keeping Marvin makes a whole lot of sense. Keep them and see which one develops better? Isn’t that what we’ve been doing? I mean…Donta Smith(gone), Childress, Smoove, Marvin. We’ve already been through this. It’s time to move some pieces. As others have already said (once again), unless Yi is going to be a 5 (or perhaps a dominating 4) then what need is there to keep so many sf/swingman types? I think most of us don’t see Yi playing center. It might really, severely limit his game, which would shake his confidence and make him unhappy. And this time, you’d see more of a loss than we did with Diaw, who turned into a more effective player while playing where he fit better. So, you draft Yi to run with either Marvin or Smoove. And neither of those two guys is going to be happy getting seriously reduced minutes while coming off the bench. That’s a fact. Which ultimately means that one of them goes.
Fact is, if we want that veteran big man so badly, we will probably have to give up our most highly stocked talent: one of our swingmen forwards. That’s if we can’t fill that spot in the draft. The same goes with filling the pg need. For the upteenth time, I don’t think we have the starting point guard position filled at all. The closest we’d be to that currently is if Speedy were healthy. I’ll not hold my breath on that one…
Anything that truly improves the team significantly (and within reason) should be done, and at the absolute very least, considered heavily. It’s foolishness to say “well, we gotta keep that guy, because he’s gonna break out any day now…” when you are faced with an opportunity to get even better.
I really hope we have something completely different going on in the backcourt next season. We cannot continue with an over-worked Lue, a 7 token-minutes a night Ivey, and a walking injury Claxton. Even if we got Oden, that’s no way to roll.
By Mike The Mechanic
June 15, 2007 10:27 PM | Link to this
Enough with the Carlos Boozer comparisons. Al Horford has no offensive game to compare him with Boozer, Defensively and rebounding wise, yes!
By doc
June 15, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this
jhan, that is a limited argument as none of the players that we are talking about have ever played against the big boys except yi as he did in international ball. he even had an ex-nba coach coaching his team as a 14 yr old in china.
have i looked at all his film? no, but it is available to the scouts. what i saw was impressive. just as impressive as watchinmg horford hang from the rim against a team from vandy, arkansas, central fl or ole miss or a lower level team. it was just as impressive as sheldon’s throw downs at duke.
has oden done anything beyond play well in a few games where he was matched up against one 7 footer much less than trying to find room to move when a team puts 3 of them on the floor? we had all made the decision on oden last year that he would be no.1 after seeing what he could do against high schoolers and i assure you yi has a larger body of work and has had a lot more experience against pro types in his last four years playing on the international team than has any player in the us playing aau ball and one year of college.
do you see the falacy of measuring yi against that yardstick? once you pull it out you have to honestly use the same yard stick for the rest who have not had to go against serious players ful time every minute in practice and 82 games a year instead of the occasional pure match up of equals we as fans anticiapte in ncaa ball.
somehow howard was chosen out of high school and it was a good choice, bosh wasnt sensational in college but he went on the stardom in just a few years because the caliber of play made him better and the quality caught up with him. you also had to watch their play in snippets and make a decison.
yi is the real thing if you watch his movements and none of the others being drafted this year have a highlight film of themselves blowing by a nba talent except yi. that wasnt high school and when all these kids go up against the real thing they are going to realize what they saw last year might as well have been high school as well as it prepared them for the real stuff. every single one of these kids have to realize that they have a heck of a lot to learn. there are no single sure bets at this point. bowen never was drafted but has how many rings, there are many folks out there to test these guys and send them back where they came from even if their name is oden, conley or yi.
By ray
June 15, 2007 10:50 PM | Link to this
Michael M,
I don’t know if folks are just desperate to not have a pg drafted (despite the collective outcry when Billy refused to do so…twice) or what. I think some of them just don’t like Conley. How the devil anybody could compare him to Cleaves is beyond me. I’m not saying we should draft Conley at #3. But I am saying watch the outcry if we don’t improve the position and end up with the same damn problems next year.
I FEEL YOU, sorry I didn’t read your post sooner. I see that I said some of the same things you said in regard to how good of a pg this team needs, given it’s current talent base. You hit it on the money, but some people just refuse to hear it. Even a great C/PF can’t get the ball down the court and initiate offense. He can only rebound and throw the outlet pass. Someone has to control the ball. So, even with a Shaq in your frontcourt, you need more than one guy who can deal with the ball-handling and distributing side of things. Otherwise you run the one guy (like JJ) into the ground with all those combined responsibilities. Believe that the same would happen to Lebron if he didn’t have guys like Larry Hughes, Eric Snow, and Daniel Gibson. And he’s got a center and power forward of decent talent.
A-ville Ranger, dang straight. If Horford is a bruising talented low poster like Boozer, give me that guy all day. Because then you have a starter, whether he’s playing pf or c. Doesn’t matter, and will likely have more to do with exploiting matchups. Some have said he’ll be like Okafor. I don’t think I could be happier if that were the case. Then it makes sense to play him next to a tall helper like Zaza. And decide whether it’s Smoove or Marvin who stays, because both figure to be starters. And only one could start. Yeah, I already hear the guys who start saying that we should play a guy like Horford at the 5. Don’t know if that’s the absolute best idea for an everyday starting lineup. Like I said, exploit matchups when the opportunity arises. But otherwise, quit trying to force people to be what they’re not.
While the prospect of Yi is still quite intriguing, is it worth the risk of letting a guy like Horford go? I say he doesn’t fall past #4. Memphis has been dying to get a good, strong talent in there next to Pau. Horford would fit the bill for them nicely.
By ray
June 15, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this
Michael M,
I don’t know if folks are just desperate to not have a pg drafted (despite the collective outcry when Billy refused to do so…twice) or what. I think some of them just don’t like Conley. How the devil anybody could compare him to Cleaves is beyond me. I’m not saying we should draft Conley at #3. But I am saying watch the outcry if we don’t improve the position and end up with the same damn problems next year.
I FEEL YOU, sorry I didn’t read your post sooner. I see that I said some of the same things you said in regard to how good of a pg this team needs, given it’s current talent base. You hit it on the money, but some people just refuse to hear it. Even a great C/PF can’t get the ball down the court and initiate offense. He can only rebound and throw the outlet pass. Someone has to control the ball. So, even with a Shaq in your frontcourt, you need more than one guy who can deal with the ball-handling and distributing side of things. Otherwise you run the one guy (like JJ) into the ground with all those combined responsibilities. Believe that the same would happen to Lebron if he didn’t have guys like Larry Hughes, Eric Snow, and Daniel Gibson. And he’s got a center and power forward of decent talent.
A-ville Ranger, dang straight. If Horford is a bruising talented low poster like Boozer, give me that guy all day. Because then you have a starter, whether he’s playing pf or c. Doesn’t matter, and will likely have more to do with exploiting matchups. Some have said he’ll be like Okafor. I don’t think I could be happier if that were the case. Then it makes sense to play him next to a tall helper like Zaza. And decide whether it’s Smoove or Marvin who stays, because both figure to be starters. And only one could start. Yeah, I already hear the guys who start saying that we should play a guy like Horford at the 5. Don’t know if that’s the absolute best idea for an everyday starting lineup. Like I said, exploit matchups when the opportunity arises. But otherwise, quit trying to force people to be what they’re not.
While the prospect of Yi is still quite intriguing, is it worth the risk of letting a guy like Horford go? I say he doesn’t fall past #4. Memphis has been dying to get a good, strong talent in there next to Pau. Horford would fit the bill for them nicely.
Oh, and you gotta go to DrafExpress.com and read the Eight Common Profiles of a draft Bust. I laughed my a$$ off, especially at the last category. Good reading, however satyrical and cynical it may be. Good for a laugh if nothing else.
By St. Bernard
June 15, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this
Good thing about this draft is that everyone will be able to say all season “I told you we should have drafted…..(fill in the blank)
By ray
June 15, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this
I was never particularly impressed with Shelden at Duke. I liked Wayne Simien better. But not by much.
Doc, but would you take Yi over Oden? Come on…
By A-ville Ranger
June 15, 2007 11:07 PM | Link to this
Ray much of what you write makes fairly good sense,and you do write much.On your last post you once again allude to B Wright’s supposed inconsistency.I believe you guys read this stuff off mock draft sites.One of them stated that Hawes was a vicious scorer.That said about as much about his game as saying Shaq has a pretty shot.Back to Wright,here’s a comparison to Horford’s stats this past season Horford 21 year old jr. 13.2 pts .608 shoot% 9.5 reb 1.8 blk Wright 19 year old fr. 14.7 pts .647 shooting% 6.2 reb 1.8 blk the only area Horford was better was in reb and anybody who watched UNC knows the low post was cleared out for Hansbourgh on most plays and Wright got most of those boards with hustle.By the way Wright had better numbers than Noah a Sr aS well.
By j-rock
June 15, 2007 11:23 PM | Link to this
Steve B. the only thing that is weak is Marvin Williams defensive,offensive post abilities and rebounding skills. The truth is I don’t believe Marvin will be a star and you do.The supersonics could trade down to 4 or 5 and still possibly get Yi(of course it would be a draft day trade).Since we disagree lets ask the other bloggers to offer thier opinion.To all bloggers would you trade the #3 and Marvin Williams for the #2(Kevin Durant).In my opinion you would be giving up a player who may be solid for a future all-star and superstar.J-Smoove and Durant sounds much better than M.Williams and J-smoove to me.Go Hawks!!!!!
By ATL_FAN
June 16, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this
Heard Hawks & Thrashers President Bernie Mullin on the radio this morn. Take the comments with a grain of salt, but you can probably infer some things from what he said. Based on what I remember, below are his paraphased comments (and my comments):
They really have no idea who they are going to take at this point
All the measurements you hear are wrong. You never know until you get a guy in what the truth is…some guys have a couple of surguries on the same area and nobody even knows about it until you see the medical report. Then you have to decide if you want to take a chance on how that will hold up over the years. (I got the feeling that he was refering to someone that they passed on with an injury. Any ideas?)
Deng would not even visit Atlanta before the draft
They did not think CPaul would turn into the player he did, nor did they think he fit their style. (Odd since he later says they want a running style)
They did, however, really like Deron Williams and actually came close to picking him.
He and the hosts bantered about the recent draft picks and they all agreed that JSmith, JChills, and Marvin were all solid picks. Bernie said that it’s the Sheldon pick that they get killed for.
He said they went into the draft knowing they had a turnstile in the paint so they had to get some beef.
When asked about whether he pulls Billy into his office to answer for picks like that, he hesitated for a second and then said yes. Then he laughed it off saying Billy is a big guy or something like that.
He again confirmed the obvious, that the Hawks needs are 1 and 5.
As for possible signal into this year’s draft, he said if they had the choice, they would prefer veterans to rookies. (made me think we’ll be kissing these draft picks goodbye)
He said they want to play an uptempo, entertaining style of basketball, but it’s hard to do that without getting blocks, stops, TO’s, and rebounds (made me think uptempo = quick PG, but biggest need is in the paint)
He commented on the solid core of Joe, Marvin, and the Joshes (I think)
He pretty much labeled everything else as assets, including the draft picks. (again made me think we’ll be kissing these draft picks good-bye)
He said Speedy was in Vancouver working with the same physical therapist that worked with Kari Leotenen. He said they are working on some definite physical problems, it’s not a mental thing. He said they need to get Speedy back to the point that he is an asset again.
Said they would absolutely open the checkbook to pay for top players, but that it was really hard to trade for high dollar players because of the salary swap.
By ATL_FAN
June 16, 2007 12:14 AM | Link to this
Can’t see the Hawks taking him, but Al Thornton sure reminds me of Josh Howard (yes, the headband helps)
[http://youtube.com/watch?v=8kIAGUbMfCE&mode=related&search=]
By A-ville Ranger
June 16, 2007 12:27 AM | Link to this
j jock I would probably make the trade,not 100% but probably.Durant is a one of a kind.The only thing that could keep him from being a star would be injuries.
By A-ville Ranger
June 16, 2007 12:52 AM | Link to this
Michial M Don’t take my defense of Wright as criticism of Horford.I’m a little bit of a homer where UNC guys are concerned.I really do think Wright is underrated here but that’s not to say he’s the best pick for the Hawks.Horford’s numbers were kept low by the way Fla used him.Nobody was getting the ball most times down like Hansborgh did at UNC.Horford could be a great fit for us.We know he’s a winner, he can move and has a pro body.
By Stinger
June 16, 2007 12:58 AM | Link to this
For your consideration Draftexpress had 2 interesting comments in todays podcast from Italy.
1 - They are convenienced Yi is 22 year old but would not disclose the evidence. 2 - Related to 1 above they believe Yi is the player teams are touting hoping he will be selected early thereby pushing a better player down the list.
By mavid
June 16, 2007 12:59 AM | Link to this
wow, speedy in vancouver.
if i see that guy, he’s gettin a talkin to.
By Ken Strickland
June 16, 2007 1:07 AM | Link to this
A number of yrs ago a rather skinny forward was drafted out of LA Tech. He cried when his name was called. His scouting report read: (1)Too skinny to play PF (2)Wouldn’t be a good rebounder because of his limited verticle jump (3)Didn’t have an outside shot (4)Too soft. Karl Malone excelled at all of the things scouts/critics said were his negatives. He made himself into the greatest PF in NBA history.
Also, there was nothing in MJordan’s college career that indicated he would dominate pro basketball, and become the greatest basketball player in NBA history either. There are players that are the PRODUCT of a particular system, and there are those that are often held back by that very system. That’s why a lot of Duke’s top players have problems adjusting to the pros. On the other hand, a lot of North Carolina’s top players perform better in the pros. It’s the effect of the system.
I believe Horford is a much better player than his numbers indicate. He successfully worked within a system that won back to back titles. I can see him filling up the stat sheet with overall numbers comparable to JSmooth’s. He has that same type of versatility, just not as dynamic or athletic, but much more physical. I also believe Wright, out of NC, can be just as good, but it will take some time and some off season work.
By Steve B.
June 16, 2007 1:42 AM | Link to this
J-ROCK, I’m not at odds with you as to who the better player will be. Marvin is a better player than you give him credit for, but it’s not even about that. It’s about value and knowing when you have the upper hand. The HAWKS have this right now. If Sea passes on Kevin in favor of Yi great for us, If Sea won’t pick him at #2 and wants A little extra to swap with us great for us. But to give up A player with the talent Marvin has(even if he hasn’t put it all together yet) is to much. Getting Kevin won’t solve the problems we have, Getting Kevin, Luke, and Swift would. Maybe I’d pull the trigger if those guys are some how in the package even if it included Marvin. But straight up #3 and Marvin for #2, We would not get the value for Marvin that he is worth. As A fan we can sit back and say trade this guy because I like this other guy better, But as A GM you have to get the right value. If we gave up Marvin and #3 and Kevin D. dosn’t become Kevin G. BK is done and he knows it. Last BK and Woody know their jobs are on the line, starting over with Kevin D. and trading Marvin might not be a risk they are willing to take.
By Ken Strickland
June 16, 2007 1:43 AM | Link to this
ATL_FAN, I think the comment about preferring veterans is a reference to the PG position, not players overall. I stand by my previous statements concerning BK and Woody’s preference for a veteran PG running the NBA’s youngest team instead of a rookie. Our draft record over the last few yrs supports that theory.
Based on your comments, it seems someone in the organization has talked to Woody about his OFF philosophy. I guarantee the change to an uptempo style wasn’t his idea. His willingness to make the change might be the reason he was brought back as HC.
By j-rock
June 16, 2007 2:18 AM | Link to this
Steve B. M.Williams,J-Smoove and J-chill will all be up for extensions this and next summer.In a perfect world we keep them all but with the incoming rookies and or possible veteran(s) that may not be able to happen.In which order do you sign these players and why?We all just wanna win.Go Hawks!!!!
By Steve B.
June 16, 2007 2:33 AM | Link to this
Smith first, I don’t think theirs any doubt about that. I think they need to sign him now before the price goes up. Then I think you have realy look at what Chill’s wants. BK will be married to Marvin unless A star comes along so I think he might try to sign Marvin before Chills. If they don’t get A center in the draft or FA, Chills might be traded before the season starts to fill that spot. I’m out dude.
By j-rock
June 16, 2007 3:01 AM | Link to this
3 to mil. for # 6 and VillanuavaSheldon Williams for Brendan Haywood
6 pick -Mike Conley Jr. 11 pick-& AJ & salim to golden state for # 18,#36 and Patrick O bryant 18 pick-Nick Young 36 pick-Sean WilliamsPg-Conley/Speedy/Lue Sg-JJ/N.Young SF-M.Williams/J-chill PF-J-smoove/Villanuava/Jones C-Haywood/Pachulia/ Sean Williams or O Bryant play in NBDL
I know it is alot but I can dare to dream.Go Hawks!!!!!
By ToeKnee
June 16, 2007 3:42 AM | Link to this
OK, I really think Conley will still be there at #11. Theres just so much talent in this draft, and I think alot of teams will consider him, but when it comes down to it, they’ll take someone else. this seems like the perfect scenario for the hawks. get the best point guard and forward in the draft by taking horford at 3 and conley at 11. now thats a team!!
PG-Speedy/AJ/Lue/Conley SG-Joe/Salim SF-Aerosmith/Chills/Marvin PF-Horford/Shelden/Solo C-Zaza/Wright
HOLY $%#%!!!
gO hAWKS!!!!
By A Thinking Fan
June 16, 2007 3:52 AM | Link to this
Remember Billy’s type of “Good Guy Character!” Horford is in that same mode, and with the SPURS winning with good guys… Go back and rethink your trade and draft thoughts.
By Matt
June 16, 2007 4:20 AM | Link to this
Steve,
I do think there is serious doubt about Smith. Call it an old coach’s attitude, but players who don’t listen to their coaches at this stage in their career invariably fail to reach their full potential - or rather fail to let their team reach its full potential. I fear that Josh Smith will always be a liability in the locker room, and the importance of that can’t be underestimated. If he doesn’t indicate a change in attitude this year, I think we should at least consider sign-and-trade proposals with him - maybe to get a high pick in next year’s draft so we can take a crack at Hibbert or Thabeet.
As for Marvin, I think we DEFINITELY need to give him at least another full season before we even consider a trade offer for him. The third year has been the breakout season for a number of current or rising NBA superstars (Tracy McGrady comes immediately to mind). Marvin has a whole summer to bulk up and get into better shape - and this year, he hopefully won’t have his summer momentum killed by a random injury.
In either case, I don’t think we can say for sure who our top priority should be yet, although I strongly suspect it won’t be J-Chill.
Ray,
I completely and totally agree that star power is the key. That’s actually precisely the point I’ve made on this blog for months, and why I think that stockpiling forwards is not necessarily a bad thing. Athletic 6’8-6’10 guys who can play multiple positions are the most likely types of players to become stars (T-Mac, Kobe, LeBron…).
As long as you have 2-3 stars and a defensive presence in the paint, a PG is unnecessary. And unless you have 2-3 stars and a defensive presence in the paint, it won’t matter how great a PG you have; you won’t win a title. Either way, I see no need to romanticize point guards.
Oh, and also - while Kenny Smith was admittedly a cut above the others on that list, he still was far from being a top-flight point guard. Smith never made an All-Star team, and in his best statistical year in Houston (‘91), the Rockets were swept in the first round of the playoffs.
The player Conley most reminds me of is a Kevin Johnson - except KJ had a much, much more natural touch on his jump shot than Conley does (and while you can help with someone’s mechanics and extend their range, you can’t teach someone how to be a natural shooter).
The point of all this is I would very much like to see us get Conley, but I don’t at all think it’ll be the difference between whether we win or don’t win a title.
By christop
June 16, 2007 6:41 AM | Link to this
The GM responsibility is to improve a team weakness. As someone mention on this board, the hawks were 28th - FG%…..26% - AST%. Since assists are converted into points, it’s obvious that they aren’t distributing the ball affectively to create better shots. Until they improve their FG and AST percentages, they will continue to struggle to become a above .500 team. Defensively, the hawks did a pretty good job in steals and block shots. Rebounding is another concern. The hawks were 22nd in the league in rebounding. The hawks GM most get a solid ball distributor and a big man who can keep people off the board. Their decision to get the right players in this draft is a no-brainer.
By doc
June 16, 2007 7:25 AM | Link to this
ray, i think you have taken the comments out of context. no where have i inferred i would not take oden as the first pick. what i am responding to is the notion that everyone compares the competiton to yi as if they are “high schoolers”. it may be what we see in the highlights but the scouts have probably had more chances to see yi against better competiton than any of the college players coming out now. his body of work is much better than the five to ten games that most top notch college kids have in a year. the match ups that the tv audience salivates on are the rare occasion where a truly talented player in college gets to play against his true peer not the numbers enhancing games against div ll teams that distort all college kids numbers.
for example you can back and look at all games the u of fla team played last year and i would say honestly the teams they were playing had significantly less talent than they did in what 80% of games. highlight reels are superficially inflated for all the players coming out not just yi.
i was also simply saying that even if it were true the hypothesis of yi playing against high school level talent that that, in itself doesnt discredit his abilities or capabilities any more than it did labron, garnett, kobe or howard when they came out.they had something special and all could see even though the talent was sooooo inferior it was silly to watch. we all knew there was something special and folks drafted with that in mind, it didnt have anything to do with playing high schoolerss you can still tell. oden was one of those types as well who could have and would have been selected as a high schooler with only tapes of him against inferior high school or aau ball players out of “gyms” but no one would be saying it isnt so special because it is against high school competition. that cant be an argument against yi which i have seen several times if it hasnt been true of all before.
yi’s body of work in international competition which includes many present day nba stars is much better a gauge than any college player since it has been accrued really over the last four years where many outside of the us has seen him develop. just because it didnt happen in front of us doesnt mean it didnt happen or could just not be trusted until it happens too many times to the point we have to stand up and take notice.
no, i probably would take yi over oden but i personally wouldnt take anyone over him with the limited exposure thus far i have had of him. ultimately, i think i could truly find out more about him because of his international play than most of the other kids coming out. he is less of a liability possibly becuase he has been watched very closely by many on the international scene. even del harris can give you a rundown of where he is now vs four years ago as his previous coach in china.
it is good to hear that speedy is working with a specialist, i have said all along his injury though WE might not think it worthy because of the nature of it; i.e. chronic wear on the joint rather than a torn “something” that can be repaired and be harder to overcome because it is repetitive injury rather than one bad move. it will require a truly novel approach that will affect the total allignment and strengthening of the whole body. i hope it works out because he can do what we need him to do when and if he is healthy.
matt, i havent seen the athleticism that you must have with marvin. he has very little lateral movement fet look too slow and he looks like stone on defense. where is his quickness? it isnt there, he will be a defensive liability unless he becomes a four. there is no way he can be a lock down on serious three talent in the nba unless he has been hiding something.
By doc
June 16, 2007 7:59 AM | Link to this
ken, way too articulate to be over on that other blog.
last year the nba coach of the year was influenced to change his style and he got that award with the raptors. he went from the firing line to a new contract. the guy to replace him is with the griz and the guy i wanted here.
like woody, think people can change, hope he will bring a different approach to the game where it isnt about holding onto the ball to keep scores down which i think he does to do just that. the offense had so little ball movement and player movement it was absurd and collapsed down the stretch when teams just bunched.
i loved the suns style but also marveled at the spurs style. both are true wonders to behold but different. thus far i have seen none of either with the hawks but hope to see one or the other. the crisp quick passing to open players in the spurs set up offense were a clinic for all. dont know if we have the players to do it but i would hope we find some kind of an offense instead of the run down the clock by the dribble approach we all took note of last year.
By Steve B.
June 16, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
J-ROCK What order do you think we should re-sign them in.
By Steve B.
June 16, 2007 10:14 AM | Link to this
MATT I’m with you on the attitude thing, but their are more people saying he dosn’t have an attitude than people saying he dose. I think the kid just wants to win, they said the same thing about KG back then and now for that matter. Do you remember the talk about KG and C.Lattner in the locker room, or KG and that center they drafted that was A bust, or Griffen, or Olawa. Until his teamates and coaches say it, it’s just talk. I sign Smith now why we can, give him the 6yr 60 Mil now. Not saying he’s worth it right now but 16pts and 8reb can become 20 and 10 next year then he’ll want the max.Then we won’t be able to sign Marvin. If Smith dosn’t workout trade him latter when he’s giving 20 and 10 and we can get a lot for him.But I wouldn’t trade him. I like Marvin’s game, and I’ve already said I think this will be his breakout year. I would love to keep him and I think we sould. I only put that trade out their to give guys that want to trade him an idea of what we would need to get back.
By TCP
June 16, 2007 11:01 AM | Link to this
Some of you people are either clueless or you just hoping your team will take Mike Conley - whoever that tean is. I just hope BK has learn from his bad selections in previous years that Mike Conley is the answer for the hawks. It is unbelievable that all hawks fan can’t see what this kid brings to the table. It is rare for a kid with his ability to come into the league. How many true point guards in the NBA who can get into the paint at will? How many true point guards in the NBA who can create separation off the dribble who has an 3/1 assist to turnover ratio? How many true point guauds in the NBA who are shooting over 50% from the field? Two. Guess who they are? Tony Parker and Steve Nash. And don’t come with idea that Conley hasn’t played a single game in the NBA because if you do, you have to show me a true point who played in college since 2001 who had a 52% shooting percentage when they came out. It is unheard of for a true point to shoot 50%from the field. He’s making his shots at the basket and from the perimeter. The guy is a double threat and he is an assist machine. He is the best player in this draft and we have a good chance to get him.
By Dr. d
June 16, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this
To BK & fello bloggers consider this draft idea. Assuming we don’t pick Yi or Kevin D. At 3 draft Hartford, trade up or do whatever it takes to draft Noah, and pick up T. Green in the second round. Use all our assets except JJ, both Joshes & Marvin to make this draft happen. This draft move will bring chemistry and championship effort (intensity) to the team, hence all of our holes will be filled.
The hawks are in a unique position to obtaing the key elements to a championship(Florida) team. Think outside the box for a moment. These three guy are roommates they know how to focus and accomplish their goal.
S. Smith make sure that BK & Mike W. consider this idea. This year we can draft a future championship team.
By Ken Strickland
June 16, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
STEVE B, I’m with you on the attitude thing. I see a young man who has worked his butt off each off season to improve his overall game. The results of those efforts can be seen on the stat sheet. However, I believe his disappointment stems from not seeing the team sufficiently benefiting from his efforts. I think the friction between Josh and Woody is actually an on the court issue.
Woody is married to a more traditional old school style of OFF/DEF that’s been instilled in him by BKnight and LBrown. JSmooth, as young and inexperienced as he is, understands the Hawks young talent is best suited for an uptempo game. We’ve all seen the positive results when we play west coast teams with that style. Very often we see Josh get a rebound and immediately push the ball up court, like a point PF. I think he is trying to show Woody we can get some easy baskets by pushing the ball, and put more pressure on the DEF. Woody feels he’s being shown up, and wants him to give the ball to the PG and walk the ball up.
The fact that someone from the Spirit Group would indicate we are changing to an uptempo OFF style says a lot. Like Doc said, Woody will have to show his versatility by adapting to a new uptempo coaching style, like SMitchell did in Toronto. Apparently JSmooth made his point to the right people in the organization. I don’t see any reason for any futher attitude issues from him.
Thanks DOC, you too RAY. It’s really nice to make what you think is a valid point, and not have your ancestry, sexuality, and intelligence questioned by someone who doesn’t comprehend your point in the 1st place.
By smartguy
June 16, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this
That was a great post ATL FAN. Thanks for the summary.
I wish I could say that I was impressed with what Mullin said, but there was really nothing new there. I think they said last year that they were going to play more uptempo. Did it happen? Not with DA Woody as head coach.
I also find some of his statements to be hipocritical. If we prefer vets at the point, then how can that also be one of our biggest needs? We already have three veteran point guards. It sounds to me like Spirit is telling us what we want to hear right now, yet at the same time bracing us for another draft knightmare.
Why don’t they just take the decision out of Billy’s hands? Who made BK the only and ultimate decider?? With five good choices for us, I was feeling rather comfortable and relaxed. However, the more this is developing, the more anxious and nervous I am becoming. Somebody with a clue (if such a person exsists in the Spirit group) needs to grab this thing by the reigns. This draft will be make or break for the next ten years…
By cp
June 16, 2007 12:35 PM | Link to this
Smartguy I have been saying that for the last 2 weeks. The closer the draft gets the scarier it gets. I just dont have faith in BK to get this right. Something is telling me there will be a lot of dissapointed Hawks fans after the draft. I was thinking the same thing as for as a veteran pg. We have 3 and it got us no where. This franchise seems to be clueless from the owners to the gm way down to the coach. Hell i would even add the scouts seeing that one is BK’s brother. Somebody has to take a stand and make sure we come out of this draft with the right pieces. Im sick of the excuses. NO MORE GET THIS RIGHT.
By jhan
June 16, 2007 2:59 PM | Link to this
Good points Doc.
But how does drafting another wing player help this team? Even if Yi does turn out to be better than Marvin, what have we gained? Is it better to have Marvin sitting on the bench while Yi learns the NBA as our PG’s & C’s still suck?
Aside from financially, I don’t see Yi making much of a difference with this squad. Is it worth another 2 years of an unbalanced team for the press & money Yi might bring. Don’t forget we have no 2nd round pick this year or 1st round next year. If we don’t address our roster imbalance this year we have to wait 2 more. Something to think about.
By michael m.
June 16, 2007 3:15 PM | Link to this
if we believe horford can truly play center (another okafor), and if memphis isn’t willing to trade gasol to us for less than both the #3 and #11 (WE CANNOT GIVE UP BOTH PICKS, BK!) then what about drafting horford at #3 and seeing if the following trade would work if it looks like conley would be there at #6 - shelden, salim, #11 for #6, villanueva.
i actually really like shelden and think many of you underestimate him, but it is true he lacks the athleticism that horford possesses. and if we nabbed horford, it lessens the need for shelden… plus conley is the real key to this.
a team of conley/joe/marvin/smoove/horford can run all day and play pesky defense, getting steals and blocked shots.
zaza, chill, and speedy first off the bench.
By michael m.
June 16, 2007 3:16 PM | Link to this
if we believe horford can truly play center (another okafor), and if memphis isn’t willing to trade gasol to us for less than both the #3 and #11 (WE CANNOT GIVE UP BOTH PICKS, BK!) then what about drafting horford at #3 and seeing if the following trade would work if it looks like conley would be there at #6 - shelden, salim, #11 for #6, villanueva.
i actually really like shelden and think many of you underestimate him, but it is true he lacks the athleticism that horford possesses. and if we nabbed horford, it lessens the need for shelden… plus conley is the real key to this.
a team of conley/joe/marvin/smoove/horford can run all day and play pesky defense, getting steals and blocked shots.
zaza, chill, villanueva and speedy first off the bench.
By doc
June 16, 2007 3:32 PM | Link to this
due to injuries we didnt have enough wing men or forwards last year and this type of player increases your options. no one can say for sure that horford is going to make a difference as a center or maybe take away time from josh and sheldon at four. no one is out there that can truly make a difference when the season starts is my thought. oden may even struggle. right now there are no absolutes it is time to pick your poison and hope it turns out to be sugar.
yi has skills that dont come very often in a man his size, so i pick him and force my coaches to figure it out or be gone. i really have loaded their aresenal whether they accept it a such or complain that he doesnt fit my system. yeah, right, what system? that is what happened with bargnani and by seasons end he was a contributor, but it took a huge nudge by the gm saying, “get er done”.
remember, no one knew who barnani was in the blog as he was playing against that inferior high school like international competiton in high school gyms. same argument was coming out against him, just doesnt fly anymore to think in those terms. careful as to use that argumant too much as you may tend to discredit yourself to symplify it to that in todays world.
By jhuggs
June 16, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this
I think the Hawks have to select Horford because he is the best available player at #3. Conley is too high to take at that pick unless he just blows them away at the workout. Javaris Crittenton should be available at #11. And yes I think the Hawks have too many small forwards, JSmith, JChill,MWills. If the Hawks pick Horford and Conley or Crittenton, I would get rid of the garbage. Players to keep would be JJohnson,Jsmith,Jchild,MWilliams, TLue,SJones, everyone else would be on the block. And signing Speedy was a huge mistake.
By Matt
June 16, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this
Doc,
Are you talking about the same Marvin I am?? No lateral quickness?? For a guy who’s 6’9, Marvin moves incredibly well - in both speed and agility terms. His athleticism was apparent throughout last year. His problem on D wasn’t that he wasn’t quick, it was that he didn’t read the offense fast enough - and he got better at that towards the end of the year.
The boy has all the tools, and I don’t know what to tell you if you don’t see that. I think he’s going to put it all together during the next season, and also honestly believe that in the end, he will be a better all-around player than Smith.
By doc
June 16, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this
that is what i have been saying during the season as well if you had been here, a defender to the end but when i dug deeep beyond my hopes it wasnt there. he is a bit behind schedule on ppg and rpg and his numbers for defense are terrible as he was one of the worst when you look at plus minus figures in combos with everyone on the team. that suggests a defensive liability and it suggests he just doesnt get it done on defense. in person, up close at games he has been a step behind. whether that is athleticism or knowledge/experiecnce … stay tuned.
through what i have witnessed he doesnt have the kind of quickness or speed to make up when he makes a mistake, plain and simple. you or anyone tell me ONE game or even a play that he excelled this year on defense that was highlight material. it is a very poor resume thus far matt.
By Steve T
June 16, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this
I think the hawks need to go big with the first pick. A lot of people think that a PG will help get this team over the hump. If anyone notice how the hawks played when Jsmoove missed some games. He had the greatest impact on the win-lost thing than any of the PGs.
This proves that the hawks need another player like him at center. We need someone to how can play two defense and rebound. If Solo can beef up, he could give us more options. We could have 3 shot blockers on defense. It would be tough to score inside the paint, thus forcing teams to take jump shots.
By A-ville Ranger
June 16, 2007 8:26 PM | Link to this
Matt Living in NC,it was obvious to me that while Marvin had skills at UNC when viewed in isolation(shooting,passing,etc)there was no structure to it.You’re exactly right,it’s a matter of reading, recognizing and reacting.The tools are all there.
By roan st
June 16, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this
If anyone can come on here and say marvin williams is quick and athletic then I would say they have to be taking LSD. People quit lying to yourself and face up to the fact that we got burned on the Marvin williams pick. He will turn out to be a decent offensive player once he gets his jumper down but will be below average defensively. What position does he play? I don’t see him being swift enough to blow by defenders (3) or strong enough to play down low (4). To me he is slow footed and awkward looking on both ends of the floor. A true hybrid which to me is a bad thing for the hawks.
I am with doc on the yi train I think he is an unusual talent and we must take him if seattle passes. Then maybe law and stuckey would still be on the board at #11 which wouldn’t be a bad consellation prize to conley. I think we can maximize our draft more by taking the point with the #11 or possibly trading that pick for someone like jack. Folks yi is rising fast and I’m starting to believe the rumors that seattle might just be thinking about taking him at #2. If durant continues to be lackluster in workouts and yi continues to impress it could very well happen.
By terrell barron
June 16, 2007 9:02 PM | Link to this
J-ROCK, I would trade Marvin in a heartbeat, for a chance at Durant.
By terrell barron
June 16, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this
Conley at 3 PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE
By StBernard
June 16, 2007 9:18 PM | Link to this
HAHAHAHAHA
You guys actually believe that Seattle would pass on Durant for Yi????? UNBELIEVABLE. It just goes to show the power of hype. If we give Doc another week, he’ll have some of you followers believing that Portland is reconsidering Oden for Yi. Last time I checked, it was Durant and Oden signing the huge endorsement deals too. But, obviously Yi will reap the endorsement deals in as soon as he’s drafted by Atlanta and you guys realize that Batista is a better low-post player than he is. I don’t think even BK is goofy enough to fall for Yi.
In other news, I’m kind of preparing myself to miss out on Conley. I don’t think BK has the fortitude not to pick a forward at the three spot. We keep talking about Critt, but when you look at the stats, they point to Law being the second best pg in the draft. He’s also going to be more game ready. I’m not as excited about him as I would be Conley (don’t think they’ll be comparable in the long run), but I would take him over Critt. Critt had the highest turnover ration of any of the pg’s in this draft. If that’s what we spend the #11 on I’m not buying.
By A-ville Ranger
June 16, 2007 9:21 PM | Link to this
roan talking about tripping,Yi before Durant ? just breathe deep and don’t drive tonight.
By ray
June 16, 2007 10:19 PM | Link to this
Doc, it’s called “pulling your chain.” I just gave yours a sharp yank. I know precisely what you said and what you meant. Believe me. But you are so onto Yi and giving so many explanations as to why, that I just had to mess with you a little. You’ve been such a hard charger lately, LOL! It’s all cool brother.
Matt, I feel you. I was kinda expounding on the point you made, working off of a very solid foundation you built. Not arguing, if you thought I was. I just feel like I’m not sure we have those 2 or 3 guys, at least not yet. We’re only sure of one right now, although Smoove has made strides in that direction. But he’s got a long way to go. We shall see how it unfolds. I would really like to see Marvin break out if he isn’t traded. I’m not in love with the pg position. We just need a better one than the 4 we have. I wouldn’t care at all if it turned out to be a combo guard of sorts. In fact, that might be better in the long run. As long as JJ has a tough, dependable running mate in the backcourt, that’s all that matters. I’d like to see us get Conley as well, but not at the price of having the same problems in the post that we’ve been having.
A-ville Ranger, I’m all for having anyone who does a much better job in the post that what we’ve had. We all know that help is needed badly at the 1 and 5. I know you’re all over Wright, I just don’t feel that he’ll be what we need. I have no use for the numbers comparison between him and Horford. I compare their physicality. Horford’s already there, physically. Wright has to get there (like many others), and whether or not he can/will get there remains to be seen. That’s all there is to it, really. And I don’t see where one is clearly a better scorer/shooter than the other. So that is a moot point as well. We may disagree, but who cares. We’ll both get to see what these players eventually do.
While I hate to see draft picks go, adding vets may be the way to go. However, you can’t go getting people who are too old. It makes sense to add a vet where there’s a need…if you have or are going to soon acquire a young fella to be groomed in the same spot. Otherwise, it’s teams who need that extra push who add vets to help them get over whatever hump it is that they’re struggling with (i.e., getting past 1st, 2nd round of playoffs, finals, and what not). It would be foolish to add older veterans to our need spots if we aren’t going to obtain young guys to eventually man those spots. I don’t care what Woody says and likes, you can’t just continue coaching the same age bracket all the time. Players get older, you have to get younger ones. Remember when the Spurs had David Robinson, and then drafted Tim Duncan? Yep, that’s the formula.
If the draft picks we have aren’t going to be our future players, then they should be used to at least acquire some of our future players. But that’s just me talking…
By doc
June 16, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this
who wants horford? can he even approach the type of player that duncan is who kinda plays center but is a forward? in other words can horford play that big as a four? a guy who ought to know, robinson, the admiral and duncans old teammate declared loudly that duncan is the greatest power forward ever.
okay, horford isnt a classic five and i dont think we should delude ourselves into that consideration. can he make the difference if he comes here to go at four? where does that leave the hawks with regards to the other two main guys j smith and m williams? can they share the job? is that a better solution to our issues or is yi the better compliment to add versatility since sheldon plays a similar game (supposedly) to horford. have we given ourselves an upgrade but in the end limited what the team can do by getting horford instead of yi?
i just dont think that the team is going to give up on speedy and i dont think he has much trade value now so i doubt conley is in the works for us. it also seems that the hawks are continuing to put effort into the rehab of speedy just like they did with a very good goalie on the thrashers who came back last year for a very solid year in goal without injury after a year he couldnt stay out of the training room. with lue and johnson as backups though, it doesnt resemble the best of the best, it is a huge investment already. if they make a move to get a point vet in the draft they will have to trade one of the points on the roster and give up the choice. i only hope there is a big that they can get in return with the vet point to even things out. a horford or a yi and vet point and another big minus a point and a pick would equal a very good graft session.
ray, glad i can give you what you want. :-))
By ray
June 16, 2007 10:55 PM | Link to this
“Never say Never”. That’s all I have to say with all the talk of what will and won’t happen. While I’m not willing to give in to any of the “who’s going to pass on this guy to draft that guy” talk, I’ll say there’s a first time for everything. You never know.
Interesting differing opinions on Mr. Marvin Williams.
Matt, I’d agree to the possibility of Marvin becoming a more versatile offensive player than Josh. I do not see him being a better defensive player, however. Whether that translates into him being a better all-around player or not…well, I don’t know. Remains to be seen. Marvin definitely has the jump shot down pat. I’d like to see a post move or two from him, and some much better defense and rebounding effort. As for Josh, he needs to get much better at the jumpshot. His rebounding and defense are very good. He has the instincts and the athletic ability to make up for mistakes.
What I find somewhat interesting is how some of the same people who favor Marvin over Smoove, are also saying that Marvin just needs more time, that he’ll get it going this upcoming season. Now, if you can give Marvin the benefit of the doubt on his improvements, can’t you give the same to Smoove? Marvin hasn’t been around long enough to prove or disprove his potential to be a star. By the same vein, Josh hasn’t been around long enough to prove or disprove that he’s going to be a bad game-time or lockerroom person. Sure, Marvin seems to be more coachable. But Josh hasn’t shown us that he’s a pile of baggage, either. There was a lot of confusion, blame, and everything else that comes with constant losing. Not to mention, Marvin had to deal with an early injury, which set him back. Everyone admits to there being a general lack of chemistry. All I’m saying is that this was tough on all of our young guys. So if you can extend a courtesy to one young player, then you can extend it to another, even if the issues of each are/were different. Give Marvin a chance to prove he can do what he was drafted for. Give Josh a chance to prove that he’s not going to be a sore spot for the team. Of course, with some people (as is always the case) this may be too much to ask.
Speaking of giving the benefit of the doubt. I am not very high on Woody for a variety of reasons. But there’s no real need at this point to discuss that at length. I would be impressed if what Bernie Mullin says is true, and they will pursue a more up-tempo style of ball. It has seemed all this time like Billy was adding pieces for just this purpose. But the hiring of Woody, and his subsequent coaching style, has done nothing but perplex me. If Woody can change his style and maximize the talents he has to work with, then all the blood, sweat, and tears is worth it. If not, then once and for all…HE MUST GO. The team we have, especially without a pure point and pure center, is NOT built for the half court game. I hope Mullin was serious in every way. Well…twelve days to go. And the predraft hype and rumor mill will only get hotter.
By ray
June 16, 2007 11:06 PM | Link to this
Doc, you sure are barking a lot for this Yi fella. Call that the understatement of the year, right? heh, heh,heh! Just think, if you’re right, and he’s wearing a Hawks uniform, you get to both rotator cuffs patting yourself on the back. Hell, Ando won’t even be able to touch you. HE’S ON FIRE!!! Seriously, it would be way cool if it comes to pass like you want it to.
As for Horford, I think there are plenty of teams who don’t see Horford as a Shelden. More like a Milsap. Or better. I’m sure Memphis would be more than willing to snap him up. If he’s willing to do the dirty work, and throw in some low post scoring, then he’s pretty much a fairly hot commodity. Not real hot, but more than lukewarm. I know you’re really high on Yi, but what is the next step? You can’t just sign the guy. If he’s that great of a talent, then you have to surround him (and JJ…let’s not forget HIM) with the right guys. Still need a bruising enforcer. Still need a dependable, steady backcourt mate for JJ. It doesn’t just stop with Yi, especially if he turns out to be a sf/pf offensive hybrid that doesn’t do much in the post. Dude’s a 7-footer, but like Dirk he may never man the pivot.
By A-ville Ranger
June 16, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this
doc can Horford be the kind of player Duncan is,no way.I don’t know why nobody compares Oden to him though.Oden doesn’t have Duncan’s fluid movement but he has a very similar body type and they have the same kind of low post defense.I’d be happy if Horford is a Carlos Boozer,but Duncan ?it ain’t gonna happen.
By Steve B.
June 16, 2007 11:18 PM | Link to this
How about this one guys it works out on realgm.com. Sheldon and Chill’s to Dallas, for Devin, Diop, and their 2008 1rst round pick. It solves our problems for now, Chill’s gets his chance to start.
By Mike
June 16, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this
Sekou The picture with Hartford and Oden is very misleading. Oden man handled Florida whole team. When he was fresh in the first half Oden dogged Hartford and Noah. Basically had it not been for Florida bench both Hartford and Noah would have had four fouls in the first half.
My point is there no dilemma with the third pick, clearly it’s Conley. After watching the NBA Finals it should be no talk about YI or anyone else. We need a PG. The best PG in the draft is Conley. There no need to trade down to take Conley. Get the guy you need, and try to work a deal where you trade up out of the #11. Most guys think I’m expecting Hawes to be available at #11, that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying get Conley at #3, then trade up out the #11 pick to get Hawes. We should be able to package one of SF alone with Lue and the #11 to move up and get Hawes or what ever quality Big that’s available.
The best young prospect for the Hawks that fills need is Conley at #3 and Hawes. Hawes will need time, but he’s a legit 7 footers that plays the center position. I like the kid from Boston College at #11 if we don’t move up out of that pick.
By j-rock
June 16, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this
Thanks for the support terrell barron.I see me and Steve B. aren’t the only ones debating Marvin Williams.Good response on the question Steve B.
My answer is 1-J.Smith, 2-Marvin Williams, 3-Josh chilldress.I did realize after I asked you the question just how hard it really is to answer.We will know alot about how the Hawks might look at these players after the draft.Before I make any decision on them I need to know a couple of things though-Will Josh Smith temper continue to cause friction between his teammates and coach?Will he continue to improve on his on ball defense,jumpshot and ball handling skills?Can Marvin Williams bring that passion he played with at North Carolina and some games with the hawks(not good that I can say some games)?Will he be a prolific scorer anywhere other than the summer league?Does he have the heart to play defense and rebound because they are not for the weak or undetermined?Is he worth big money or is he just another sweet shooting tweener?Can J-chill’s ugly jumper get more consistent?Is his foot speed to slow to guard Shooting gaurds?Can he start if M.williams or J-smoove gets traded?Is he nothing more than a very good sixth man?
These are all questions that have to be answered this upcoming season.The questions will not be answered by the coaching staff,GM,owners, or bloggers.Each of these players will answer these questions with there play on the court.They will show us all if they have the heart and skill to warrant extensions.Go Hawks!!!!
By james jones
June 17, 2007 4:18 AM | Link to this
like someone said before i hope to God that these hawks’ officials aren’t reading blogs but instead are just doing their homework. cause if they do the right homework we are going to bag yi and law. we all care about this team and sekou’ blogs have shown me i am not the only one that believes and hopes for the hawks. the truth is with a little improvement on what we have now. (i mean these individual players working harder and getting better) we can’t go wrong in the draft situation. they would only be additional help. we’ll be fine. lets just get ready to support them and hope for the best. i’m onthe yi wagon but i know my opinion doesn’t matter.
By roan st
June 17, 2007 10:34 AM | Link to this
The snapshot of horford and oden was definately misleading in todays paper since oden absolutely dominated horford in that game. Thats why I’m not a hoford guy because any time he went up against a good big man they fared very well against him. The last game randolph morris went up against horford he had 18 points and double digit rebounds. I think horford will be a solid player but we need someone with talent who can create a buzz and put people in the stands. If we don’t take yi (my favorite) then I hope they just go ahead and nab conley. Not another guy who is 6’9” and plays a similar game to shelden. Yi would be a 7ft with a unique set of skills and conley would be a blazing point guard with the ability to distribute in an uptempo style. It has to be yi or conley, if not I will be done with this team until knight’s a* is gone.
By Ken Strickland
June 17, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this
ROAN ST, calm down my friend. You know that last statement was born out of frustration. The Hawks are going to milk our 3headed PG(Lue, AJ, Speedy) for another yr or two. They will likely draft a PG project in next yrs 2nd rd. I still think BK will consider drafting another forward, creating a surplus, then trade one off one , along with one of our 3 PG’s, for a starting PG. I don’t think the Spirit, or BK, intends to spend #3 money on another PG. They will definitely go big, but just who and how big, remains uncertain.
The Spirit might get involved with the #3 selection because of the media and fan attention Yi would generate. Don’t get too worked up about Yi’s light frame. I remember when the same concerns were being voiced about Kareem when he entered the draft. Kareem was a few inches taller, but he filled out nicely and he produced. He wasn’t a strong rebounder, which is why it was so important that he have a strong rebounding PF next to him. Neither was he a prolific shot blocker, but he altered so many shots it didn’t matter.
I understand where DOC is coming from on his Yi obsession. If used properly, there’s no way he could fail. I’d use the old Laker move of starting Yi out on one side of the lane. Then I’d use a back pick and send him back across the lane creating a mismatch against either a PF or SF. That’s why teams had so much trouble being physical against Kareem. It’s not just a matter of which player has certain assets, or certain liabilities. It’s a matter of how a coaching staff can best utilize a players assests, while minimizing his liabilities, and they all have liabilities. As for those thinking we have to draft Conley at #3, think again. The Hawks haven’t reached the position where they are a player, or position away from contention. So, no one player is going to make the difference. They may make “A” difference, but not “THE” difference. Don’t get too upset if BK drafts BWright out of NC. I see him eventually as another Ben Wallace type, but with better OFF potential. Man, a player like that playing next to JSmooth in an uptempo game, WOW. I’m looking for some punishment. So, what do you think?
By evg
June 17, 2007 7:02 PM | Link to this
Noah dubbed Al Horford the “Total Package”, but said that Yi Jianlian definitely looks like a #1 pick. Read Noah’s following comments:
Noah also mentioned that after having seen Yi Jianlian workout in one-man drills recently, he looked like the “#1 pick in the draft.”
“In terms of shooting the ball, having someone pass him the ball, rip through and dunk, [he was] very impressive. There’s no contest,” Noah said. “But I don’t know how he’s going to react when someone trash talks him on the court…or when someone throws an elbow at him or something like that. I can’t judge that, but from what I saw, the way he handles the drills, he’s pretty impressive.”
By james jones
June 18, 2007 12:31 AM | Link to this
i rest this case on noah’s comments if he really said that!!!
By evg
June 18, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this
Hey James Jones!
Go to the following link: http://www.nba.com/celtics/draft/notes061107-workouts-noah-wright.html
Here is where Noah made the comments about Yi Jianlian. He makes these comments starting at the 7th or 8th paragraph.
By akin
June 19, 2007 3:00 PM | Link to this
Ok I have it, the scenerio to end all scenerios and one everyone can be excited about. OK, we need a pg but 3 is too high to take Conley. Well 5 isn’t. Plus Boston is in Love with Yi and willing to deal to get him, I say we…
Trade pick #3 and Salim Stoudmire to The Boston Celtics for
5, #32, Al Jefferson and Rajon Randoat 5 we take the PG we need in Mike Conley Jr
at 11 we take the spot shooter and three point specialist we need in Acie Law
at 32 we take a center with good bloodlines to groom in Marc Gasol
I know three point gaurds in the deal, but they all excell in different places, Conley is the all around guy, starter and potential superstar. Rando is the defensive specialist and a guy who can run a team if someone goes down. Law is the spark plug off the bench, Mr. Instant Offense. with this we can let Lue, Ivey and Avery go. Al Jefferson gives us a presence in the paint on both ends of the court, averaging 16 pts. 11 boards and like 1.5 blocks per game. Plus he’s only 2 years out of high school and will continue to grow, he’ll start for us from day one!!! Gasol has a good name and like his older brother, with a little time to mature will be a star in the league. This is how you build a championship team… Depth Chart below
Pos./ Starter/ 2st String/ 3rd String/ 4th string/Alternate
PG- Mike Conley Jr / Speedy Claxton/ Rajon Rando/ Acie Law/ Joe Johnson
SG- Joe Johnson/ Josh Childress/ Acie Law
SF- Josh Smith/ Marvin Williams/ Josh Childress
PF- Marvin Williams/ Sheldon Williams/ Solomon Jones/ Josh Smith/ Al Jefferson
C- Al Jefferson/ Zaza Pachulia/ Shelden Williams/ Marc Gasol
Deep at all positions with quality players, what do you guys think???