Hawks

By doc

June 8, 2007 9:50 PM | Link to this

said it in the last post. i’ll take number one, feel good about it and not at all greedy. not sure id feel the need to get horford with wilcox and sheldon so i might go after the guy you spin ill will toward … yi. the try to get a big either noah or hawes with the remainder or crit,

is yi darko or is he more like gasol, bargnani and dirk, that is the question? might be unfair to limit him in that way and i dont see how their games are similar to even make the comparison sekou. i call the foul on ya dude.

sekou what did ridenor do to tick someone off? he had a heck of a year going and it seems there was a 2006 year end review by some folks and they said dont play luke the minutes he was playing. he had several games with double digit assists, big games scoring and seemed to get into some pockets to take a few away without coughing it up. just what is the skinny on the kid and why was he so readily pulled over by his own team?

By Reggie

June 8, 2007 9:59 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou at the end of the day what do you think the hawks will do in the draft?

By Sekou K. Smith

June 8, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Gasol’s the only international cat that came here and produced at a similar level in his first NBA season as he did in Europe. Every other guy has needed time (in some cases four years, like Dirk) to really come into their own.

I’m not comparing Yi to Darko as a player. I’m comparing their predraft hype. That’s it. So rescind that foul doc.

And Ridnour fell out of favor with the coaching staff in Seattle (Earl Watson’s arrival had a huge impact as well). But he’s a perfect fit for a team stocked with talented players in need of a facilitator.

By Mike The Mechanic

June 8, 2007 10:13 PM | Link to this

Sekou, i know it was reported that the hawks would not work anybody out until the 20th, but my best friend works at the arena and said that there were a few guy’s in their in the past couple of day’s working out. Any word on this?

By Big G Money

June 8, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

Just got back from the Seattle Times site. Doesn’t seem like Ridnour is the one people are looking to trade. Scenarios thrown around there are Swift or Lewis to the Celts for #5.

Obviously, I prefer scenarios 5, or 3 before 4, 1 or 2. Ridnour is as doc calls it “serviceable” but 11 pts and 5 assists a game aren’t special. Wilcox gives you some experience and muscle in the middle. Hawes gives you 13% body fat which translates into brother ain’t been getting it done in the off season, doesn’t care, or just isn’t the one. And he has a 29” vertical — Jon Koncak jumped that high. And I’m with doc, “why not Yi with the 3 pick?”

But if we’re dreaming, why can’t we dream of Amare and JJ on the floor together? It would sell out Philips and add 15 games to the win column at least!!

Frankly though, some are talking about trying to pick up Conley with the 5 pick. They’re smart given the piecse they already have. I think that as I said earlier, we just don’t have the $$’s (not to be mistaken with cap space) to pull the trigger on any block buster deals that would bring a marquee player to the Hawks. Get Yi at 3 and if we can’t trade up to get Conley, then maybe Crittenden is worth a try.

By Big G Money

June 8, 2007 10:20 PM | Link to this

But Sekou,

Most picks take time to develop. Yao took some time, but I don’t think anyone would argue with that pick. Howard for the Magic has taken some time. I’m not looking for any instant success this year, just a better team with much better players in the key areas we keep discussing growing into a high caliber team in the next 2 to 3 years.

By Sekou K. Smith

June 8, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

Big G,

Are you willing to wait two or three more years for this team to come together?

By doc

June 8, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

sekou, i will be more lenient than either stern or jackson. as they say, no harm therefore no foul. rescinded.

By mavid

June 8, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

I hate scenario #1. I’m not ready to give up on Marvin for those two players.

I LOVE #2, and I think ANY GM would do that deal (well, except for the Denver GM ). We give up Shelden and Lue for the DPOTY, AND don’t have to give up picks. That’s perfect. But why does Denver do it? I guess you can make the case that Denver may want to cut salary and Camby is a constant injury-risk (who NEVER plays a full season).

If we did that deal:

Critt/Claxton/AJ Joe/Chill/Salim Marvin/Chill Smoove/Horford/Pachulia Camby/Horford/Pachulia

Thats probably one of the best 10-man deep rosters out there. I’d be all for it.

Scenarios 3, 4, and 5 are all interesting, but we would need a backup wing and a pg in FA… what are you advocating there Sekou? Mo Williams? etc?

By Sekou K. Smith

June 8, 2007 10:52 PM | Link to this

I nominate doc for a job at the league office. And all of the deals I mentioned are deals that make great sense for the Hawks, not necessarily for their trade partners. But hey, we’re dreaming there people. The reason I like the deal with Seattle is because you get two NBA ready players at positions of need (PG and post presence) and still get to keep the picks. It’s not about giving up on any of the guys being traded. But you have to give up an asset or assets to get the same in return. There are other deals being bantered about that make just as much sense and more. These five just provide a little something else to chew on as we wait for things to play out on draft night.

By Reggie

June 8, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

Sekou

What makes Luke Ridnour so good as a basketball player. What things does he do well?

By doc

June 8, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

i’ll wait two to three years if they are moving in the right direction. the cavs, sixers, bulls and raptors are the young and up and coming teams to compete with. i would like to pass them next year or be a lot closer than we were this past year. even concerned about the bobcats being significantly better. just dont think there is the one guy to bring it all home in one year.

as far as amare, he is one of the reasons jj is here if i remember right, they had a few words during the season and never got over it setting off his desire to cash in and go with the hawks.

By doc

June 8, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

reggie, his numbers looked really good. as sekou said he got displaced by a very wiley and probaby more seasoned guy in earl watson. in an interview with coach herb brown after the 2005-2006 season in response to hype about getting a.i. to come to atlanta he quickly pointed out that ai doesnt and wont fill that need. he wasnt a point. since he coched him with his rother in philly i take the man a his word also emphasized that snow now with the cavs filled that role then. brown then said the one point that would fit that need for the hawks and might be available was earl watson. good defense. protects the ball. makes good decisions. the thing he emphasized most was that he can score if necessary and that was a problem with a lot of points, they cant keep the other team honest with their own offense. we saw that sag stuff at the end of games when speedy was in there along with out ther points. i dont think conley will address that need now and he might be one of those teens that needs the learning curve of a couple of years.

the numbers ridenour put up were impressive until dec 31. his avg is misleading based on his play time from that time on. earl must have really showed he was the man to unseat luke. luke’s numbers suggest he might not be easily taken or stolen by the trade as proposed by sekou.

By mavid

June 8, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

Understandable, Sekou, you do have to give up assets to get assets.

But if we can keep our picks and get Horford and a pg at 11 (I like us getting at least 1 of the 3 PGs in this draft), why do we need to trade Marvin for Wilcox and Ridnour?

Anyone wanna work out a JO trade? I tried for a second but couldnt make salaries match for now, and now im out for the night.

By Harry Hawk

June 8, 2007 11:22 PM | Link to this

I’d much rather see the Sonics talk themselves into drafting Yi…and damn the trades. Durant could be big-time here in the ATL. That would also open up all kinds of trading possibilities with the forwards and the #11 pick…and you’d have a potential franchise player to go along with Joe. Besides, there’s a large Asian community in Seattle and the surrounding Pacific Northwest coast, so I guarantee you that Yi is considered a big possibility as a big draw for them at #2. Might even help them get an arena built if they want it. Anyway…Sekou, I implore you not to say the Sonics would be crazy for drafting Yi. On the contrary, I believe we should all start encouraging them!

By Big G Money

June 8, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

Interesting doc. If Luke is that good, then he could be valuable. And if we still keep the picks, it seems pretty interesting. This could help us immediately while allowing us to grow the team the “right way” and compete with the other up and coming teams who have done well with their draft picks over the last few years.

As for waiting a couple years…I used to be a season ticket holder. I still love the Hawks but wouldn’t invest in the product as it is today. I got very antsy at the beginning of this past season thinking that perhaps Speedy could offer something compelling to the team. Alas, everyone knows what happened. I was never sold on Shelden (BK’s big miss). Nonetheless, if the product shows marked improvement and is entertaining, I’d consider being back in the stands for sure. I don’t expect more than 40 wins from any changes that we might make. I’m not sold on Woody’s style of play however. It’s not effective and definitely not entertaining to watch.

Sekou, I appreciate you giving us something else to chew on; however, I know you can’t give away anything that you might know at this point either. Thus, these scenarios (including #1) were probably just meant for their entertainment value…right?

By A-Ville Ranger

June 8, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

Sekou Your #1 scenario is one to think about,#3 is awful,#5 isn’t worth commenting on #4 interesting, I’d probably do it but as you say it ain’t happining #2 is the keeper Camby would be perfect for this team and the price would be right.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 8, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

I need to say,I like the trade of Shelden for Camby.Why do you have to agree with the picks though ? Is it a package deal ? I’ll take the trade for sure and leave my options open with the draft picks.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 8, 2007 11:57 PM | Link to this

Big G What was Larry Bird’s vertical ? Hawes is a player,enough said.

By reese

June 9, 2007 12:03 AM | Link to this

Sekou, I can’t say that I agree with any of the trade scenarios. * Scenario 1)I don’t think that we gain anything by trading for Luke Ridenour and players like wilcox can be acquired via free agency, nbdl or players who are not drafted. The only good part is that we would still have the number 3 pick and can draft Yi. *Scenario 2) This is the closest scenario that I could live with. However, I wouldn’t draft Horford at number 3. I would still take Yi. Scenario 3) Why give away the number 3 and 11 pick for gasol. To tell the truth, I really don’t want gasol that bad. If BK wants Gasol, trade players (not jj or jsmith) to get him. Scenarios 4) and 5) As much as I love Amare and KG, I don’t think that we can acquire those players without Josh Smith in the trade and they would still want the picks. I would rather work toward building a more balanced roster to address all our needs.

I still believe that we should wait until all workouts are done. Nothing that I have read in these blogs or other websites, since the draft order was decided, has swayed my opinion.

3rd Pick Scenarios) Only trade with Portland if you acquire Aldridge. If that does not work out, then you are assured that you can draft either yi or durant (depending on seattle’s desire). This adds another scorer to the mix.

11th pick scenarios) you have less control with this pick. Try to trade up with the pick and a player (either Marvin, Josh C or T Lue) to acquire Noah. This would help of our defensive big man need.

To assist the point guard need, go after Bibby. He brings stability, ball handling, penetrate and kick and can hit the big shot. He is only 29 years old and has career stats equal to or better than Sam Cassell. Additonally, bring in a taller younger point guard who was not drafted or trade Shelden to Portland for one of their 2nd round picks and Trade Lorenzen Wright to anybody for a 2nd round pick in any year.

Go after Magloire in free agency to groom Noah.

In summary for 15 man roster: Point guards)Bibby, Claxton, Johnson, rookie Shooting guards)JJ, Salim Small forwards)Josh Smith, (Childress or Marvin, the one who is not traded) Power forwards)Yi, Noah Centers) Magloire, Zaza, Solomon Jones *2 extra spots use as desired

Benefits: Now, have more realistic control over the players we can acquire, we have a mixture of quality youth and veterans, a marketing bonanza in Yi to help fund these additional players, have kept our core of JJ and Josh Smith and ex college players who have won championships. Most importantly, we have a more balanced roster which will allow Woodson to mix and match players to have a small lineup, big line up, defensive lineup or offensive lineup and reduce the playing time of JJ and others to hopefully minimize injuries acquired to fatigue.

By travis

June 9, 2007 12:15 AM | Link to this

Sekou, I hear that the Hawks are changin’ jersey colors, somethin’ like a blue. Have you heard anythin’ about this. I have worn myself out readin’ blogs, espn, si, draftexpress, etc. I have “OD’ed” on Hawks info. These scenarios are great to read, but they have added to my anxiety. I like the idea of satisfyin’ our needs, without givin’ up the picks. June 28th won’t get here fast enough. I am rollin’ the dice and goin’ to Philips tomorrow for the Hawks SELECT-A-SEAT to renew my season tix and possibly get closer. PLEASE BK, DO THE RIGHT THING AND GE US INTO THE PLAYOFFS

By mavid

June 9, 2007 12:16 AM | Link to this

If Denver agrees to that trade, I’d do it in a second. I think we’d probably have to throw in the #11 as well.

By mavid

June 9, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this

An off-season addition of Camby, Yi/Horford (at 3), and Crittenton/Law/(maybe Conley if he somehow falls to 11), without having to give up anyone except Shelly and Lue, would be about as ideal as any of us can hope for.

By Lifelong Hawks Fan

June 9, 2007 12:39 AM | Link to this

Sekou, What kind of other rumors are being thrown around outside of Atlanta that we aren’t hearing?

By Volman

June 9, 2007 1:44 AM | Link to this

Travis, the new jerseys might look like this:

here

Sekou, I like trade scenario #1…

I wouldn’t mind Amare though, but not for all of those picks… That’d give Phx 4 first rounders, right?

By james jones

June 9, 2007 2:28 AM | Link to this

guys let’s be reasonable… us trading marvin at the time he begins to coe into his own is just crazy. i love the idea of ridnour but it’s not gonn happen. neither is the camby thing happening. if seattle want or are even considering yi whether for financial reasons or potential reasons but still draft durant how do we justify not drafting him? the one arguement we had before was drafting a point, now we jus wanna pass on yi because he’s a risk? we were blessed with the 3 and 11. we take the risk at 3 and draft a solid point at 11 and not conley even if he’ available. speedy was hurt one season now we’re killing him? come on this man was part of the spurs’ success in 03 he played a big role. we can get our 50 point guards more help at forward instead of saying crap like conley and even law (who i’m hoping we draft) are better than anyone of these guards on our roster other than ivey. if we draft law we have another guard on the floor who can create and handle and shoot while joe gets rest. we don’t need 5, we need 12. all 12 to play to win. i’m one of those who still maintains if you don’t have a 7 footer on your team u wasting your time. this is the hawks’ chance to get a 7 footer and i thot we wud get gasol last season b4 the deadline but we got AJ. (who i resect but please we had 8 point guards includin chill and joe). if we get yi at 3 we can get the best point guard left in the draft at 11 and that’s not a bad deal. why do we assume yi won’t play defense? he has to be shown right? maybe if woodson teaches it he’d do it. damn. he is 7 feet and jumps high and fast as heck. i think thats a way better deal than horford or wright because he has smoove to support him and marvin can learn to block too jus like smoove did. and we have solomon too? come on!!! we need to view 12 and not 5. law can be a back up 2 for joe along with salim. and chill and marv and smoove shuffle the 3, and smoove, solo, yi and even marvin shuffle the 4, and zi, yi, solo and whoever’s left on the roster shuffle 5. at the point however, those 50 guys need to be reduced to about 30 and speedy remains the 1 shuffled with AJ, lue, royal (why?) & law or whoever crit, jordan whatever. ya’ll it takes 12. zaza is one of the more skilled centers in the league believe it or not. he has the classic european big man game vlade, zydraunas etc along with the oscars for best act. he cant always transition like solo and yi can. guys remember we have to involve every player solo is a good player even if he fouls a lot at least he plays D. we need to go small we leave speedy in with marv or chll, joe, smoove and solo or yi. come on ya’ll think deeper than just the 2 pieces to be added. i don’t like woodson but i maintain u can’t teach ballers to want to ball. i played under 18 ball for my country when i was 19 and 20. i liked to run and the coach didn’t like to run he only played post ball for the free throws. so as a point all i did was look for bigs thats irritating i moved from nigeria cause of him. ya’ll theres nothing like a running 7 footer. KG, amare, timmy etc yi can be that. and yes amare aint no 6f 10 he’s 6f 11” and a half at least 6f 11”. BOTTOM LINE IS WE NEED 12 YI AND THE BEST POINT GUARD WUD BE A GOOD ADDITION TO THE PIECES WE HAVE AN I JUST NOTICED I EXCLUDED SHELDON FROM ANY OF MY TEAM UPS. WELL THAT’S HOW HIS SEASON WAS.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 2:31 AM | Link to this

reese Shelden for a second round pick ? That doesn’t make a lick of sense.He will be at the very least a 13 pt 8 reb 1.5 block player.Just increasing his minutes to that of a starter would get to those numbers and he’ll get stronger and more skilled.My guess is he’ll get 15 pts 10 rebounds and 2 or 2.5 blocks with solid low post defense in two years.Now how many second rounders will give us that ?

By Charles

June 9, 2007 2:33 AM | Link to this

The comparison of Yi Jianlian to Darko is idiotic. Darko barely had any experience prior to the draft and averaged a measly 9.5 points in his final year on the Hemofarm international team. He was extremely raw entering the league, and to compound matters, Larry Brown didn’t give him a chance to develop at all. That stunted his growth as player dramatically. We are just now seeing what Darko Milicic can do. Yi, conversely, averaged 24 pts 12 rebounds in the CBA last season and has improved in every statistical category his last three seasons. He has played in many more international tournaments than Darko and has shown he can compete against NBA talent. He’s much more polished as a basketball player now than Darko was.

Point is that all the other teams in the league are taking notice at Yi’s talents and the very rumor that Seattle is considering passing on Durant reinforces the idea that he is indeed the third best prospect in this draft. I have faith that BK will realize this and do the right thing: Yi @ 3!!!!!

By james jones

June 9, 2007 2:43 AM | Link to this

vol’ u sure bout those jerseys or are u jus assuming? cause those seem to have the spurs’ slack around the neck thing going.

By edgar

June 9, 2007 2:46 AM | Link to this

Sekou, thank you for indulging my KG fantasy. I’m hoping and praying for a KG, JJ combo to reinvigorate this franchise. God, I would go bananas if we landed KG. I feel like I’m 10 years old, hoping desperately for a Sega Genesis on Christmas morning, but knowing deep down that my parents won’t splurge on anything nearly that extravagant, so I’m bracing myself for something way less sexy that might be sort of cool once the initial disappointment wears off (I got a tennis racket and a couple board games in lieu of that Genesis).

Sekou, you asked Big G if he was willing to wait two or three more years for this team to come together. I will answer for him: no. Emphatically, no. My “19 straight home wins” poster from the AJC hangs on the wall and reminds me of what it was like to actually be in the hunt. That was 10, 11 years ago now. I want that again. It would not be hard to imagine the Hawks instantly competing for the eastern conference crown with the Garnett, Amare or Gasol scenarios.

I like all of your trade scenarios, but I’m least enthusiastic about the Camby one. He’s terribly injury prone, but I would give up Lue and Sheldon for him in a heartbeat.

As for Ridnour…Seattle was rumored to be shopping him heavily near the trade deadline last season. I was hoping the Hawks would make a push for him then. I have been a big fan of Ridnour’s since the Sonics’ improbable 52 win season in 04-05. I admittedly did not catch too many Sonics games during the regular season that year, but I remember how amazing Luke played against the Kings and the Spurs in the playoffs. He tore up the Spurs in games 3 and 4, bringing Seattle back into contention and evening the series. I don’t know if y’all remember that Spurs v. Sonics series from two years ago, but it was one of the best of an incredible playoff run (much better than this year’s). Plus there’s that great “I love this game” NBA advertisement featuring a Ridnour buzzer beater that the league ran throughout the season this year, which constantly reminded me how beautifully that kid can play…anyways, I don’t know why Ridnour wouldn’t be on the trading block now after he was shopped all season. I think he’d be a great fit for the Hawks…but of course, I really want KG…

By Matt

June 9, 2007 2:47 AM | Link to this

Heck, for Shelden and Tyronn even I’d make the deal for Camby. But mavid - I still say he’s overrated, bro ;-). Don’t think I’d do it if we had to toss in the #11, which I’m guessing we almost certainly would (if not the #3).

Honestly, if it’s the choice between Camby and Law or Hawes, I say keep the #11 and take one of the latter two. I am willing to wait 2-3 years to make the playoffs, and I honestly think that Camby will be forced to retire by 2010. I seriously doubt that Camby gets us to the conference finals during that time. But who knows - Law or Hawes might turn out to be good enough to do so someday.

I’m a patient man. Don’t trade for a 33 year-old rebounder and help defender, even if he is the best help defender in the league. What the Hawks need is a presence on the low post on both ends - and Camby is mediocre as a low post defender (I will never forget the image of Ilgauskas backing him down like he was empty air and then dunking on him - on two straight possessions) and even more mediocre posting up on the other end.

I know, I know. I’m a hater. But I like my 5’s to be like my burgers - big and beefy.

By Charles

June 9, 2007 2:59 AM | Link to this

Another comment, you said “Gasol’s the only international cat that came here and produced at a similar level in his first NBA season as he did in Europe. Every other guy has needed time (in some cases four years, like Dirk) to really come into their own.” You’re forgetting Bargnani, Sefolosha, and Biedrins. All of which are solid players who carried production forward from the international scene. Fact is there haven’t been too many top 15 international players taken in the last five drafts. The ones that flopped generally did not have the kind of game experience needed to accurately scout them. Tskitishvili is a great example of this. The guy barely played (14 min a game in last season of Euroleague). Gaging true talent must be done in game situations, not drills supervised by agents. It is no different than high school players coming out early. It was a hit or miss with them as well. If international talents have enough game experience, I don’t think that they are any risky than NCAA prospects. The competition over seas is a lot better than most people here in the USA arrogantly assume. I’m out, thanks Sekou for the interesting discussions.

By Volman

June 9, 2007 3:03 AM | Link to this

James,

I am not saying those are the jerseys for 100%. This is what they might look like.

Here’s my reference:

click this link

Search “blue” and you will come to the blog about the new jerseys.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 3:15 AM | Link to this

reese/Matt/Mavid With all the disrespect for Shelden I decided to do some comparisons.These are stats based on all these guys playing the same minutes.I went with the minutes Ben Wallace played. Ben Wallace 6.4 pts 10.7 reb Lamarcus Aldridge 14.3 pts 7.9 reb Emeka Okofor 14.5 pts 11.4 reb Dwight Howard 16.7 pts 11.7 reb SHELDEN 10.3 PTS 10.1 REB So he’s already a 10 reb player and he was much better by the end of the season.He’s a better rebounder than Aldridge but not as good a scorer. I think it would be fair to say looking two years down the road by these numbers he could get 16 pts and 11 reb with starters minutes.Not superstar numbers but top 10 in reb and as good as most centers in scoring.It makes me shake my head reading how Noah will be a better shot blocker than Shelden.Shelden averaged twice the blocks of Noah in college and given time he’ll average two or better as a pro. oh the stats are based on 35.1 minutes per game.

By james jones

June 9, 2007 3:21 AM | Link to this

preciate ya vol’. and wen i got to that link the first thing i see is some fool telling us to pic conley. conley is not the best point guard in the draft oha!!! if he didn’t declare no one would have talked about him. he wasn’t the best point in college last year and i dare someone to say he was. i hope by now he’s off all our lists at number 3?

By ToeKnee

June 9, 2007 5:05 AM | Link to this

dude, garnett would be so kickass

By lost in space

June 9, 2007 5:16 AM | Link to this

sekou gotta disagree with you on dirk needing 4 years to make an impact. He averaged 17.5 pts in his second year.The hawks need a multitude of help, from an interior defender to a low post offensive player and one player can’t solve all our problems.Use the picks to address our problem areas and get a better coach and we might have something. But then again who would want to work for the Atlanta Spirit anyway?

By Scott

June 9, 2007 6:02 AM | Link to this

If Seattle passes on Durant it would because they would loose Lewis in free agency. But if they draft Yi he can play the four with Lewis at the three.And Yi would be a huge draw in Seattle with the asian population there.

By Meanie

June 9, 2007 6:59 AM | Link to this

Maybe this is a crazy thought, but continuing the Yi-to-Seattle discussion:

I know they have Wilcox already, but with their financial trouble I wonder if the Hawks would be able to pry Durant away from the Sonics by drafting Yi then Hawes (local college star up there) then sending both for Durant. Hmmm…

Still say after nabbing Oden that Portland would give up Jack plus summ’ good for Mike Conley. Guarantee it- and I think Jack being a local product and a big, tough PG and defender is just the type this team needs.

By Sekou K. Smith

June 9, 2007 7:23 AM | Link to this

Charles,

Points well taken but I was not comparing Yi’s and Darko’s games, only their predraft hype. And those guys that flopped were accurately scouted my man.

The NBA teams that drafted them knew better. They did it anyway, the same way they snatch up domestic teenage talents that have a 50-50 chance of turning out , if given the proper time to develop.

I’m not tagging the international guys only, most of the teen brigade that entered the league in the past 11 years needed time to develop. Not every one of these guys is like LeBron (even the best have needed time, Kobe, KG, Jermaine O’Neal, T-Mac, etc.).

When it first started teams realized this and made wise decisions in where they drafted those kids and how they brought them along. And somewhere along the way (Kwame Brown) they just started going nuts and picking them high and then throwing them to the wolves from the start, expecting them to mature overnight.

To say some of these international prospects weren’t scouted properly or that there was no way to scout them properly is a nice escape hatch for NBA teams that simply gambled and lost their shirts.

By Sekou K. Smith

June 9, 2007 7:35 AM | Link to this

Oh yeah, the new unis thing is legit. It’s arguably the worst kept Hawks secret since “they are drafting Shelden Williams at No. 5, no matter what.” I’ve actually seen them (on paper and in person). The color scheme is new (Red, White and Blue like the old St. Louis Hawks getups). But the style and design isn’t anything radical. There will be no Pac-Man or menacing looking bird with its wings extended. It’s basic stuff.

By ejh

June 9, 2007 7:49 AM | Link to this

Among trade scenarios, I only like the one in acquiring Paul Gasol, because he is an instant upgrade on the defensive front and can post up and hit the outside jumper. I would trade Zsa Zsa, Tyron Lue, Shelden Williams or Josh Childress, and swap the Hawks #3 pick, for their #4 pick. This gives the Hawks a veteran big man, and allow them to Pick either Brandon Wright, Al Horford, Ji, or Julian Wright out of Kansas, and pick Crittenton with the #11 pick for your point guard; at 6’5” I believe he is going to be the still of the draft, because he has the size and knows how to get to the basket with penetration and can distribute the basketball, he has the body frame and style of play for this league.

By Floze

June 9, 2007 8:19 AM | Link to this

Darko is going to be the prize Free Agent prospect for the Hawks this summer. He has a great post presence ans is still younger than Yi if the reports that Yi is 22 are true.

A sing and trade with Orlando could very well be where our 11th pick is going with Speedy’s contract. There is a trade that might actually happen if Hawes and Noah are off the board.

By Reggie

June 9, 2007 8:24 AM | Link to this

Sekou

How about about a scenario in which we take Yi with the3 pick and we trade the 11 pick and Zaza for luke ridnour.

By Scott

June 9, 2007 8:27 AM | Link to this

Sekou, Chris Wilcox is not a post player. If you would stop trying to talk so much gibberish and stick to the nuts and bolts of basketball you may see that. But, knowing that you are so far up Billy Knight’s a*, it doesn’t matter. I know you will keep busting on Yi because he isn’t black, which is a shame.

By Reggie

June 9, 2007 8:31 AM | Link to this

Sekou

Take Yi at number 3 and then with pick 11 trade the pick to Seatle with Zaza in the deal for Luke Ridnour

By mountain_jim

June 9, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this

I miss the pac-man uniforms.

I don’t really like any of these deals. Right now I like keeping the 3 for Yi, and for adding experience not youth I can see trading 11 for Jack but they need to give a #2 back as well.

And with the resultant team, if Woody can’t coach a running team, replace Woody.

By doc

June 9, 2007 8:37 AM | Link to this

scott, projection of your own self onto others is a powerful elixir and insight into self if the time is taken to see. really look deep dude. everyone has an opinion/gibberish and are welcome at our liars table, you includued. just know too many see right through your stuff, hope you do as well. peace.

By Hawk fan in la la land

June 9, 2007 8:48 AM | Link to this

Your Seattle scenario is ok but here are my proposals:

Trade-Chilldress & Shelden & Salim to Portland (maybe 11th pick if Conley’s avail. then remove Shelden

Get-Magliore & JJack & 2007 2nd rd pick #36 or 37 (not sure)

Trade Marvin Williams and 2008 2nd rd pick to Seattle get Ridnour and 2007 2rd pick #31

Draft Horford # 3, if #11 kept draft best player available Noah/Jianlan/Hawes/Law/or Nick Young out of USC cuz he is a baller and a winner.

In second round draft a Jared Jordan, Taurean Green, Crittendon whomever is the best avail pgs with the two picks

So it look like this:

Starters

C-Magliore PF-Horford SF- JoshSmith SG-JJ PG-Jack

Bench

C-Hawes/Noah/Yi(if drafted)/Zaza PF-Shelden (if not traded)/Solo SF-Nick Young (if drafted), draft pix SG-Lue, draft pix PG-Ridnour, draft pix

The great thing about the hawks is their players are interchangeable at alot of positions so a good coach could develop a nice rotation with these players if only they had one.

By Scott

June 9, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

Your wrong about me Doc. I had season tickets back in the “glory” days of Roundfield, Nique, Carr, Rivers and so on. Favorite player was Carr and Fratello was an idiot for not taking advantage of Antoine’s skills. It’s not a black white deal with me. However, Sekou seems to play the race card every now and then, and his refusal to call out Billy Knight on all his blunders proves to all of us that Sekou is up Billy’s rear. I do feel he won’t give Yi a fair shake because he is not black. That is my opinion based on reading his blog from day one. Now, Yi may be a bust, but to compare him to Darko just shows that it’s a race thing with Sekou instead of a basketball thing.

By mountain_jim

June 9, 2007 8:52 AM | Link to this

In general unless BK gets blown away with a trade offer I am inclined to prefer keeping the picks and trading a forward and existing guard or two for a defensive big, if thats possible.

By doc

June 9, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

scott, really, do i? show me what you got then instead of the gutteral lead ins and race baiting. again, you are welcome in any form and will be accepted as such. when anyone white, black, yellow or red plays the race card it is my first reaction to look deep at where their own prejudices might be. we all have them concious or not, most of us here have our prejudice for the hawks.

you can say “oh my, it is not a color thing”, when acknowledging any association to it makes it just that.

when you can see it any different, it then loses the race perspective. not until, so you are stuck and mired in your own stuff instead of joining us here to have fun talking b’ball and life.

have fun slamming us all, if that is what you wan,t it just doesnt hold much cred here. if you had really been reading through the years of this blog you would see your own lack of perspective and understanding of what we do here at the liars table.

scott, again peace, on this wonderful saturday. enjoy the reads. certainly dont think anything i say can change things. maybe some even felt i was prejudiced against small guards like conley and people of less that 6’1” height began to think i was prejudiced against them. if i have offfended anyone i am truly sorry. it just wasn’t about all people of smurf height. heh heh

By sal

June 9, 2007 9:36 AM | Link to this

We do not need Yi. First of all, he’s not a pf or c, he’s a SF. Several people have posted their hypothetical rosters with Yi at pf or c. That’s not his position. Although he’s 7ft, he’s not a post player. He’s mostly a sf just like Nowitzki. Just like Nowitzki, Yi is soft in the post and the Hawks need some interior defense not another SF playing out of position who can’t defend other post players.

Furthermore he’s 2 or 3 years from contributing on a consistent basis in this league.

By Mitch

June 9, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Sekou:

First I want to thank you for being so reporter friendly for us during these exciting days before the draft.

Secondly…you say the Hawks have $6M in cap room…is there a free agent point guard or center the Hawks could sign, who would enable the Hawks the luxury of drafting BPA best player available?

Thirdly, if you were running the show, what coach would you want running the Hawks? I think of the great job that Hubie Brown did galvanizing a young Grizzlies team into a playoff contender…someone like Brown, who motivates by stressing fundamentals and teamwork (X’s and O’s), would be ideal for these young Hawks, who, IMHO, are being poorly mismanaged and coached.

By vdunkndunk

June 9, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this

WHY NOT JUST GO BACK TO THE DOMINQUE PAC-MAN? EVERYONE LIKES IT. IT SELLS WELL. IT HAS SOME HISTORY. IT HAS LEGITIMACY. WHY NOT? WHY CAN’T WE JUST GET SOMETHING RIGHT ONCE IN A WHILE?

By Clyde

June 9, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Jay

June 9, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

I wish we would go back to pac-man as well. But I am glad we are changing unis…our current one I never liked.

By Mitch

June 9, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

I want follow up on my questions to Sekou by stating why the current Hawks’ system under Mike Woodson is doomed to fail. Here are the reasons:

(1) The Hawks are in no-man’s land under Woodson in terms of style…his personnel is young and talented…and should be playing an up-tempo, run and run again style that would wear down slower, more veteran teams.

Instead he has them playing much more of a half court, slow down game…but the plays are slow to develop, there is little movement (particularly late in games when big baskets matter most). How often to we see the Hawks standing around, so much so that all the team gets is an ill-advised hoisted three from Josh Smith, or an out of control spin move by Zaza.

(2) The coaches, Woodson in particular, harp on Josh Smith…when he really is the only player trying to push the ball in the open court, which at times he does very well…but don’t you just sense that the coaches are holding Smith back? and the rest of the team back…like they have tight reins on them?

(3) Not a point guard on the roster can break a man down off the dribble, slash into the paint and either get the ball all the way to the hole, or have the instinct and vision to dish the ball off (hopefully to a cutting teammate—-but even there it seems so many Hawks away from the ball just stand in cement).

Speedy Claxton is an awful penetrator…he gets half way down the lane and leaves his feet before he really knows what to do with it.

TLue is much more of a turn the corner, pull up for a medium range J, point guard.

And AJ…has no quicks, can’t really break anyone down…his only game is to muscle for position off the dribble and shoot a fadeaway.

These are the reasons why the Hawks, if they don’t trade for a reliable, savvy penetrator, HAVE to draft Mike Conley, Jr….the quickest penetrator, draw and dish point guard in the draft, by far…plus he’s a fast break waiting to happen, which these Hawks HAVE to start doing to create their winning style.

(4) Other than Josh Smith, the Hawks have no shot blocking threat on their roster. Adding a shot blocker in the middle is IMPERATIVE…especially if the Hawks want to run.

This is why selecting Sean Williams at #11 would be the wisest thing they could do. Williams has an NBA body…he’s not a string bean like Marcus Camby…and, aside from having major league reach, he’s got what coaches cannot teach: remarkable instincts and timing. He doesn’t get head faked to often, because he plays vertically…and has such a good sense of verticality, he can simply wait for the shooter to commit himself…at the very worst in that scenario he is bound to alter the shot.

I want the Hawks to get a new coach who will have these young Hawks running off of swatted balls, steals and turnovers…and in the half court sets, running plays with good movement and point guard penetration.

With their personnel the Hawks could evolve into the Phoenix Suns of the East…and right now with all the old, slow teams in the East, the Hawks could run right past the pack if properly built and coached.

I say hold on to these two draft picks to land the two puzzle pieces the franchise needs most…an electric point guard and major league shot blocker. Conley and Williams fit the bill.

By Mitch

June 9, 2007 11:38 AM | Link to this

My starting lineup for 2007-2008:

PG: Mike Conley, Jr. Ohio St.

SG: Joe Johnson, Arkansas

SF: Marvin Williams, North Carolina

PF: Josh Smith, Phi Slamma Jamma

C: Sean Williams, Boston College

2nd Team:

PG: Tyronne Lue, Nebraska

SG: Salim Stoudamire, Arizona

SF: Josh Childress, Stanford

PF: ZaZa Pachulia, Georgia National

C: Solomon Jones, South Florida

I love Jones’ athelticism and prefer his game style-wise to Sheldon Williams’. Sheldon’s role…is to play PF late in games to provide interior defense, rebounding and clutch free throws.

The one other move I would try to make is acquiring an early second round pick, to select a Robert Horry-type outside shooter in Rayshawn Terry of UNC.

By Dr. d

June 9, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

Happy to see the idea of Yi at 2 is being considered.

First, Yi is the most valuable asset in this draft. He is the Global ticket that King David S. wants to punch. There are billions of Asia fans that want Yi to be an NBA baller. He will be a 1st Team All Star. Yi is a product of the Republic of China. I am sure his game is close to complete. Yi will be projected to be bigger than Yao and King James, bigger than John Wayne, yes bigger than W. Yi is a billion dollar enterprise to the team which drafts him. Thats why BK & the Sprit group took the team to meet him. Yi will double the value of our franchise in two years. Paul Allen (Portland Owner) is trying to create a deal obtain Yi and Greg O. Yi is more valuable than Kevin D.

Second, Yi is a franchise savior for the Seattle team. Every franchise in the league wants Yi. Remember the 2008 Olympics are around the corner. I would not be surprised in Yi moves to the No. 1 spot. The NBA is a business 1st.

Third, in Yi’s defense the guy already has an NBA post-up game. Woody would love to run his half-court offense through Yi. This would allow Yi to average 20pts. per game and become a 1st team allstar which meets the approval of King David S. Drafting Yi at 3 would instantly make BK a top dog.

Finally, if Portland is crazy enough to pass on Yi Seattle will not. Hence, Kevin Durant is a Hawk. Soon you will see KD,JS,JJ,MW & JC on the court together. Happy times are here again.

By roan st

June 9, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this

Sal, he is not really a three either. To me he is another tweener who is not strong enough for the post or swift enough for the wing. And some scouts believe he is much older than his listed age of 22. I’m cetainly not on the YI bandwagon and hope that we draft one of the college kids over international if were not able to make some kind of trade. But who do we go with? After oden and durant every player has some ugly warts to their game.

By cp

June 9, 2007 12:15 PM | Link to this

Mitch your ideas almost make too much sense considering that we need a pg and center and those two picks would satisfy both needs. Im not on the YI bandwagon. The guy is a sf in my opinion and last time i checked we took a sf 2 years ago that was projected to be the best player in that draft given some time for his game to mature. I know some people think taking YI will finally get fans to come to the games but I just dont see it. People will show up when the Hawks finally start winning and the front office finally acts like it knows what they are doing. If we end up with Conley and Sean Williams I would have no problem with our selections. Conley and Hayes is fine so is Conley and Noah. There is a rumor of J Jack to the Hawks for the 11th pick but thats not enough. BK has shown that he is a terrible negotiator so I wouldnt be shocked. The closer it gets to the draft the scarier it gets for this franchise. BK GET IT RIGHT.

By reese

June 9, 2007 12:20 PM | Link to this

A-Ville Ranger, projecting minutes out to 35.7 minutes and saying that a players statistics will only go upward is fools gold. You are ignoring the concept of diminishing returns. Someone like me could equally say that Sheldon’s numbers will go down if his minutes are extended. If he started, he would be playing against starters instead of getting his numbers against backups or when the game is already over.

If Denver would trade Camby for shelden, I wouldn’t be upset.

A-Ville Ranger, you say that I am replacing Shelden williams with a 2nd rounder. But if you examine my roster more closely, you will see that I made room for additions Yi, Noah and Magloire.

You ask how many 2nd rounders would give us fictitious numbers. I’ll just give you 1. Paul Milsap of Utah. Compare his and Sheldon’s stats on NBA.com and you will see that Paul has slightly better numbers when your projections are used. Now back to reality. Milsap was drafted in the 2nd round.

A-Ville Ranger, I’m not trying to pick on you. However, when someone tells me that I have to wait 2 or more years for someone to reach their potential and I see players drafted after that person performing better, I have a right to complain.

By using your logic, I should be happy with the following. If a hawks player (Shelden or Marvin) stays in the league for 10 years and is only good for years 5 thru 10 whereas a player drafted after them is good for years 2 thru 10.

Well who is making sense now?

By Volman

June 9, 2007 12:24 PM | Link to this

I hope my parents get me those season tickets for my 21st birthday.

By Mike

June 9, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

Scott, If Sekou is against players that aren’t black, why does he propose that the Hawks trade for Luke Ridnour? Isn’t he white? This isn’t the first time he has proposed that we acquire him either. Stop trying to play the race card. Sekou does a great job of making things interesting around here and providing good info. Get off his back!

By Volman

June 9, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this

Amen, Mike.

By diehardhawkfan

June 9, 2007 12:55 PM | Link to this

Mitch, that was the GREATEST post on the blog so far…Mullins PLEASE read that post. I have dreams about that starting lineup (except I would sheldon williams instead of sean williams). Mullins, our BIGGEST weakness was lack of penetration from of our guards/forwards. In fact we haven’t had a guard who could penetrate the lane probably in this millenium. Draft a penetrating guard who can break down a defense.

I can’t believe BK has brainwashed the fanbase like this. We’ll always draft the project forward with tremondous upside. We’re always bad enough to pick in the top 5. So like groundhog day, we’ll always make up the excuse that our draft pick is too high to draft a point guard (but if we had a pick at 5 or 6, that’s the perfect time to get a point guard). So we’ll get the guy with upside, but by the time we actually see the upside, we’ll ship him to another team. Then we’ll do it again next year. Draft another forward with a pick that’s too high for a point guard…

Do us a favor..draft Conley and then watch how much easier it will be for our wing players (JJ, JSmove, MWill) to score when we have a guard that can break down a defense and penetrate the lane.

By Sekou K. Smith

June 9, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

Chris Wilcox isn’t a post player? Huh? Everytime I’ve seen him (and he loves to beast the Hawks every chance he gets) he does his damage inside.

Again, I don’t object to Yi at No. 3. I don’t object to anyone in particular at No. 3, depending on what else is done to shore up the roster during this draft.

If the Hawks are going draft a player that isn’t a PG at that spot, Horford is probably the best fit (most ready to play low-post player available). I know that’s the same logic that was used last year, but if that’s the way they’re going … that’s what I think fits right now (keep in mind, I’m the dude still married to the idea of taking a PG high in each of the past three drafts).

By mountain_jim

June 9, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

I like Horford also but everyone pointed out to me it would be like drafting Sheldon all over again. Some differences but not enough.

At least Yi is unlike anything we have on the roster, and I am convinced his jump-shot is unstoppable. I like what he could do for Hawks exposure and interest also.

I still can’t decide if we would be better off trading the 11 for Jack + 2nd or drafting Law/Critt there or using Chill to trade up to get Conley from there.

By Reggie

June 9, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this

Sekou If there was a trade that could possibly happen with the hawks. What tarde would that be?

By Charles

June 9, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this

I really wonder if the people thinking that Yi is a SF like Dirk that can’t play PF have ever seen him play on tape. I’ve seen pretty much every piece I could find on youtube and a few other sources. The guy is a faster version of Pau Gasol. He’s a PF that can move to the outside and has the ability to penetrate. More importantly, he scores a majority of his points INSIDE with dunks and very good turnaround J’s and hooks. That kind of versatility is rare. And who is the Hawks starting PF? Sheldon is limited in his offensive ability and might be better suited focusing on defending slower centers. Marvin is a strict wing player and has little to no post game. We have no guys on the roster that can consistently score in the post. Please, somebody tell me when is the last time an nba team has won the finals without a consistent scoring post player. Much more important than a PG IMO. Yi gives the Hawks a guy that has a very good post game, while still have the versatility to get down the court and finish with Smooth and JJ. Perfect fit.

Oh yeah, and Al Horford is not the best post scoring in this draft. I would put him third behind Yi and Wright. Anyone who has seen him would agree that his hook shot is very awkward looking and his other moves don’t really look refined either. He benefited from a lot of single coverage on a really good team and still only averaged 12 pts a game his junior year. Sheldon did better than that at Duke! I think Horford will be a lot like Drew Gooden. Solid, but never a superstar. I project him at most 14 pts 10 reb 1 blk/game. Not really stats worthy of a number three pick.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 2:15 PM | Link to this

Mitch I thought Sean Williams looked like a defensive star the few times I saw him play.He’s projected as a second rounder by most though.Would you over pay with the 11 pick ? The biggest issue is the reason he’s likely going so low.The guy has had some off court problems that management would have to consider before bringing him to such a young impressionable group of players.

By Charles

June 9, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

yeah and Yi is listed as 19. The only basis I’ve seen for listing him at 22 is a typo on the Chinese national team’s roster that was immediately corrected. He has a valid birth certificate showing him as 19. It’s just people desperate to try to bring his draft stock down. There’s a lot of teams that want him and I wouldn’t be surprised if rumors like this are put out there by scouts and GMs wanting a particular player to fall a couple of slots.

By Charles

June 9, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

Sean Williams would be huge reach at 11. And didn’t we use two picks last year on interior defense? How many of these one dimentional players do the Hawks plan on taking? Spencer Hawes would be a lot better assuming that we get Conley at three (mistake but topic for another time).

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 2:35 PM | Link to this

Reese I’m familiar with the concept of diminishing returns.In fact I addressed that by stating Shelden is likely to INCREASE his per minute production over the coming seasons.If you know enough to mention d.r. then you should know the full cycle is a curve upward with a plateau and the third diminishing return phase which is the part you allude to.Nothing distorts the truth like cherry picking facts and stats.I don’t think I was the one doing so.

By Neil

June 9, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

Sekou, Since Seattle is contemplating taking Yi at #2 maybe we could strike a deal with them to make that happen. Maybe give them childress or sheldon with lue and ivey for wilcox or swift and ridnour and have them trade the pick so we get durant. Then take the best big available at #11.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this

Charles I love Hawes game,he’ll make whoever picks him a better team.

By Steve B.

June 9, 2007 2:48 PM | Link to this

What’z up guys. Floze glad to see you with me on Darko, But why sign and trade for him? Olando can’t give him top dollar because they will have to max out Howard next year. Offer him a top heavy contract and dump sallery some where else. Reggie I love Luke to but, I think that’s giving up to much. In a draft where every one wants another pick or higher pick we need Luke and Wilcox, we’ll send them back Speedy to make it fair. Starters Luke, Joe, Marvin, Josh S. and Darko. Bench AJ,Salim,Josh C, Yi, and Sheldon.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

Reese I went over your comments again.Calling your reasoning flawed was kind.The truth is it’s nonsense masquerading as logic.Real life almost always requires a development period.You can pretend otherwise but it’s not reality.

By Steve B.

June 9, 2007 2:56 PM | Link to this

I like that Neil. Also for every one saying Yi can’t play center, How do you know? I love when some one tells a 19 year old kid what he can’t do and never will be able to do. Just think what if someone is telling your 19 year old college son or daughter this. Slow down he’s A kid, the Hawks no matter who they draft are going to have to sign a vet to play in front of them. AND NO I WOULD NOT TRADE THE #3 PICK, UNLESS THE VOICE SAID D.HOWARD AND THAT’S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

By diehardhawkfan

June 9, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

The biggest problem with the Hawks is the lack of dribble penetration by their guards/forwards. All the great teams have a guard/forward who can draw defenders and find open teammates by attacking attacking the defense (whether it’s Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Steve Nash, Lebron James, Baron Davis, Chauncey Billups, etc). We were the lowest scoring team in the NBA plain simply because we have the WORST set of PG’s in the NBA. Conley is the obvious choice at 3. He’s the fastest, strongest, most athletic point guard in the draft. He will be the one guard on the team that could actually get in the lane and create easy opportunites for JSmith, Marvin Williams, and Joe Johnson.

By ToeKnee

June 9, 2007 3:47 PM | Link to this

First off, Yi would hardly see the floor. he cant keep up with our guys. we’ve got some great chemistry building, and messing that up would seriously set us back.

we need to acquire players who fit into our team well, and i feel yi would be stretching that. 3 is just too high to take conley where there are easily 4 players better than him. i still like the florida guys, all 3 of them, julian and brandan wright(my new pick at#3 by the way), and i like conley too.

i just think its important to keep chemistry in mind when discussing this team. some of the scenarios tossed around here would just totally start the rebuilding process again. we can make the playoffs for sure this year if we make the right moves. build upon some of the things that we are already doing right!! dont just try something completely new and crazy just because its different. anyone who watched the hawks this past year knows that they’re not a trainwreck!! they just need to make the right moves here, and we have what we need to do that!!! i’m pumped, and cant wait to see what happens. i’m always looking for new updates all the time about whats going on. keep it comin sekou, anything youve got!!

By Francesco Sinibaldi

June 9, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

I think, Sue…

                                             The magical sunshine arrives near a dream 
                                             like a luminous darkness in a golden design;
                                             and while the sound of a blackbird appears
                                             in a pleasure remembering the youth, while 
                                             a candle escapes recalling the sign of a
                                             beautiful care, when a crying overcomes, 
                                             I think, Sue, there’s even a flame in the light
                                             of a sunrise….

Francesco Sinibaldi

By Matt

June 9, 2007 3:54 PM | Link to this

Neil,

I think you’re the reincarnation of Don Quixote, bro. I don’t see any chance in hell of Seattle using that #2 pick on anyone not named Durant or Odem, and they certainly definitely absolutely would not give up players worth a damn in any trade if such a trade were even possible. They would want us to mortgage the city to trade up that 1 spot, and rightfully so.

But keep tilting at those windmills - good thoughts bring good karma!

By MJ3

June 9, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

Scott - go f**k yourself.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 4:20 PM | Link to this

Every champion has been a veteran team with a, strong inside game, penetrating smart guard, good clutch perimeter shooter,at least one shut down full court defender and a player you can go to with the game on the line.My conclusion is we need a complete team.

By doc

June 9, 2007 4:29 PM | Link to this

ok wish list time,

chris paul can become a free agent next year. lets go after the bigs this year and make a major statement to everybody by signing him when he becomes available.

By mavid

June 9, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

A-ville Ranger, you can post Shelly’s stats all you want. Anyone who WATCHED him play this past season, knows just how bad/disappointing he was.

Im excited about the new unis.

By roan st

June 9, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Why are the blazers scheduling workouts with point guards like conley and crittenton? The blazers second pick in the draft is #37 and no way will those guys fall that far. Some believe that the hawks and blazers already have a deal in place for jack for our #11. Now I like jack and believe he is solid but no way do I think we should give up our #11 for him alone. And why would the blazers be so anxious to trade him and then turn around and possibly draft crittenton? Some reports have said that the blazers don’t see jack as a long term starter at point in the NBA. If we are going big with our first pick then why don’t we just draft crittenton at #11? This is a pretty strong talent pool and if we give up #11 for jack I will be p**. I already want to see billy knights a* out of here anyway.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

mavid you must type slow with that thumb in your mouth.

By Mitch

June 9, 2007 6:06 PM | Link to this

Chad Ford has Sean Williams going #17 to the Nets in his latest mock…and Williams has apparently some mid-first round guarantees because he cancelled going to Orlando in favor of scheduling personal workouts.

I don’t care where the pundits have him rated…as I have said before…if Williams had played the entire year at BC, he would be the concensus #3 pick in this draft. He’s an extraordinary shot blocker who changes the whole complexion of a game.

The Hawks caught two huge breaks by winning the #3 pick in the lottery and having Indy lose out so the Hawks get their #11 pick.

Now the Hawks have caught two more huge breaks by (1) the fact that Mike Conley Jr. decided to enter the draft; and (2) that Sean Williams has been downgraded because he was dismissed at BC for breaking team rules, which I hear this time around was for skipping classes. Sean Williams is not a troubled kid. He paid for making some typical college student mistakes (how many kids in college smoke reefer and skip classes?). Not that I condone such behavior…but let’s get real…his offenses were not egregious.

What mystifies me is how any Hawk fan who watched the games the past couple of years would even consider the Hawks taking a SF or PF with the #3 pick, when there is a consummate point guard on the board in Conley…picking Conley would obliterate all the shoulda coulda talks about Chris Paul and Deron Williams…especially now that Marvin Williams is developing into a dynamic player…all he needs is a real point guard to dish him the rock when he’s open, same for JJ, JSmoove et al. A fast break would raise the scoring averages for all these players and the team.

It also mystifies me that the same fans don’t seem to understand how weak the Hawks’ interior defense has been for ages now. There has been NO shot blocking presence at the center position…NONE…and it has not only led to a constant pounding inside leading to strings of losses, but it has prevented the young, athletic Hawks from running a steady diet of fast breaks.

If Speedy Claxton and Lorenzen Wright even see the floor for the Hawks this year because the Hawks go and draft another power or small forward, expect another frustrating season and another lottery pick, only next year that pick will go to the Suns.

This is the year for the Hawks to get all the puzzle pieces for the present and future in place. If the Hawks blow this one, they deserve all the ridicule they get.

By reese

June 9, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

A-ville Ranger, yes players need time to develop. It just seems that Shelden is going to need more time than I am willing to give him.

I watched him play in the rookie league last year and he was too slow footed to chase down rebounds, late at providing help defense, didn’t jump as high as his opponents who were shorter than him, got knocked around by bigger power forwards/centers who didn’t even make it on their NBA teams.

Coach Woodson made the lame excuse that the summer league is not where shelden would look good, but he would look better against better players. So right before the final cuts Sekou alludes that some players will be let go who deserve to be on the team and some will stay. I would have to think that Shelden was getting outplayed by some of those who were let go.

Then the season starts and the pace of the games were just to fast for his slow footed self. Rebounds would come his way on the offense end while he was standing in the lane. He wouldn’t even try to go back up with the shot, he would throw it back out.

I felt like changing the channel every time I saw him playing center. You or others can bring up ben wallace as an example as an over achieving undersized big man all you want. Shelden is not and I doubt will ever be as good a on the ball defender, help defender or shot blocker as ben Wallace.

If you can honestly say that you like Shelden Williams’ game, then I feel sorry for you.

I’d like to see you display a better all around mixture of youth/veterans and balanced team than the approach that I laid out. Face it, if you pick conley at 3, Noah, Yi and Hawes will not be there at 11. If you pick Yi at 3, you still have to acquire your big man and point guard. I laid out an approach to do just that.

By SALT SHAKER

June 9, 2007 6:30 PM | Link to this

I HATE ALL YOUR SCENARIOS! WE should keep all our young talent and our 2 picks.We’re to close to having a great team,to mess things up now.I think we should stay the course we are on now.Do anyone watch the games? YA’LL CAN’T SEE THIS TEAM COMING TOGETHER! WHY MESS THINGS UP BY GIVING AWAY OUR YOUNG TALENT AND 2 LOTTERY PICK? BY TRADING OUR YOUNG PLAYERS AND 2 LOTTERY PICKS,WE’LL BE GIVING THE OTHER TEAMS A DYNASTY.CONTRARY,TO WHAT YA’LL THINK, BK HAS MADE SOME GREAT DRAFT PICKS.REMEMBER,WE ARE BUILDING A TEAM.WE HAVE TO ADD TO WHAT WE’RE DOING,NOT TEAR DOWN.I HOPE THE HAWKS WON’T BE LIKE THE WASHINGTON WIZARDS,TRADE RASHEED WALLACE,BEN WALLACE,RIP HAMILTON AND WATCH ANOTHER TEAM REAP THE BENEFITS. WHAT THE HAWKS NEED IS…STOPPERS,LIKE BREWER AND NOAH OR ONE OF THE ABOVE AND CRITTENTON.WE NEED TO STOP THE OTHER TEAMS FROM SCORING. WITH THE ABOVE PLAYERS,AND OUR CURRENT SQUAD,WE’LL BE HARD TO BEAT FOR A LOT OF YEARS!HAWKS OWNERS/BK STAY DA COURSE,THE FANS WILL UNDERSTAND DOWN THE ROAD.DON’T BE STUPID! SALT SHAKIN ON DA COURT!

By SALT SHAKER

June 9, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

YI OR HAWES,WON’T BE BETTER PLAYERS THAN NOAH!

By Anakin Joe

June 9, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this

Sekou, here’s the difference between Darko and Yi. Darko never had the ability to instantly fill the financial coffers of a franchise. He never had the ability to put enough funds in the pocket of the owners that they may be able to afford some name-brand free agents in the next few years. Lastly, with Atlanta already having a relationship with China (pandas, Mayor Franklin visited in the past few months), I just think this is a revenue-generating opportunity too great to pass up. And I don’t think he needs to produce All Star numbers to get around 3,000,000 votes next season. As long as non-basketball issues continue to impede the on-court progress of this team, a non-basketball draft day decision makes all the sense in the world.

Yi for Me at #3.

By doc

June 9, 2007 6:46 PM | Link to this

aj, you arent going to regret this. now, who is your next guy in order of preference of those that might be available at 11?

By mavid

June 9, 2007 6:48 PM | Link to this

A-ville Ranger, Reese summed it up perfectly.

Did you actually watch games, or did you just look at boxscores and stat sheets? Do you not recognize how Shelden actually performed on the court?

He was more a liability than an asset a lot of the time, and that is unacceptable.

By you sticking up for Shelly’s performance this PAST year, your basketball knowledge is dubious in my eyes. Anyone who defends his play when he was actually on the court (when Woody let him play) is delusional.

Now, I’m not saying he can’t improve as he gets a better feel for the NBA game in the next couple seasons (and understands that there are NECESARRY things he must do as a defensive-minded, rebounding 4/5), but this past season, he WAS flat-out not very good.

Mitch, I like Sean Williams too. He might have been our consensus pick at #3 had he played out the season. He definately wouldve been lottery. He IS a huge risk though, one that has to be carefully investigated to get any 1st-round consideration. But he does bring some great things to the court (dominant shotblocking, rebounding and interior D… sound like something we might need? hmm)

Ideal trade in my opinion

Now, i don’t think GS would EVER go for that. But, i’d at least make the phone call to see what they WOULD want.

2 reasons they might consider it:

1) At 3, they can get either Yi (who appeals to the area’s fanbase and fits into their perimeter oriented game as a quick 7-footer) or Horford (an athletic interior presence who can rebound, score and block shots, and also fits in well with their team because of his athleticism and ability to run the court).

2) Money. How are they going to pay all these players and avoid the luxury tax? They already have Baron, Jason Richardson, Stephen Jackson, Al Harrington getting big contracts. Pietrus needs to get paid. Barnes is gonna get paid by someone. Etc. Biedrins and Ellis both will be getting nice contracts very soon. Plus, with his next contract, maybe a talented kid like Ellis will want to go somewhere where he can be more of a focal part of the team (instead of playing guard in a rotation with 3 all star-caliber players (when healthy)).

Definately not an easy trade to work out, but an enticing one nevertheless.

By doc

June 9, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

aj, have you seen the highlights of yi yet on you tube? the kid moves well, has two gears going up, soft hands to shoot or slam with either hand or both. he has a soft touch and i can say a better handle than our big guys right now; marvin, smith, zaza or sheldon. i think he can move with the ball and without the ball better than smoove can with a much softer shot. i think he is the real deal and wonder why our fearless leader wont go ahead and say it, the guy is good and 19 to boot.

the final thing is he has an attitude that shows me he loves the game and more than that wants to win and wont back down. there is a good example of this in his going against pau gasol in international ball at the start of the game. first time down gasol went right at him and dunked; the spanish braodcaster went wild. next time down the court yi took it at the top of the key and moved by gau like he wasnt there and stuffed it on gau as he tried to recover hanging on the rim for emphasis. gao then seemed to try and do a head game on the kid who wouldnt listen to his elder of 6 years. just kept his game face on and moved away.

look we arent going to win it all next year. we need to take the next step. let the team get big this year and let it be run by vets at point. next year throw the hat in the ring and get real aggressive going after paul and hope the broken atlanta spirit will have gone through a healing process. that is my formula and it doesnt require a trade.

as far as billips. no! the cavs who we will have to go through eventually to get to the ring had his number this series and probably into the future. he wasnt comfortable with the way they were playing him and he is not our man to go to the next second step. i dont care only about getting into the playoffs.

By SALT SHAKER

June 9, 2007 8:29 PM | Link to this

HAY YA’LL, SINCE WE GON DREAM: LOOK AT THIS; IF WE GON GIT RID OF OUR DRAFT PICKS ! LETS GIVE THEM TO LA 4 KOBY!BUT LETS SAY WE DRAFT BREWER AND NOAH. THIS IS WHAT WE GET. NOAH,SHELDON, SOLOMON, ZAZA,& LORENZEN;A 5 HEADED MONSTER WITH 30 FOULS; IN BREWER YOU GET HARASSMENT 4 LABRON,RIP,RAY,AI,CARMELO,DWAY,KOBY,AND ALL THE REST OF THOSE JOKERS WHO NEED HARASSMENT!THESE “R” STOPPERS : YA’LL!! THINK DYNASTY NOT PLAYOFF! LET BK DO HIS JOB,yA’LL JUST BE FANS,CAUZ,YA’LL JUST DON’T KNOW.DA WORLD WASN’T BUILDED N.A.DAY! SALT N THIS GAME!2 WIN!!

By Matt

June 9, 2007 8:44 PM | Link to this

Trade Proposal: This is a variation on the Scenario 1 that Sekou drew up:

To Atlanta: Luke Ridnour ($6.5M)

To Seattle: Josh Childress ($3.6M) Anthony Johnson ($2.9M) or Tyronn Lue ($3.5M)

(Maybe ask for a future 2nd Round pick if it’s Lue)

Makes Sense for Seattle because… Ridnour is, from what I understand, increasingly dead weight in Seattle.

2) They get a great backup for Durant (yes, they’re taking him) and Allen, who brings great versatility from the bench. I have little doubt that Childress will contend for the 6th Man Award in a couple years, and he provides Seattle with great insurance in case Durant or Allen get injured - as Allen was for 27 games last year.

3) They get a veteran backup PG for Watson to ease the loss of Ridnour, and can pick between Johnson (who’s a little taller and a little slower than Watson, but plays a similar style of ball at the point) and Lue (who could give them some offensive punch off the bench to complement Watson’s excellent D), depending on which direction they want to go. I’d hate to see Lue go, thus the 2nd rounder if he’s included.

I should also note that last year, Lue was not significantly less productive than Ridnour (11.0ppg, 5.2apg vs. 11.4ppg, 3.6apg). Take that however you wish.

Makes Sense for Atlanta because… I should hope this is obvious. We solve our need at PG without using up cap space, and without giving up anybody who we can’t afford to lose when it comes right down to it. It would be painful to see Childress go, and just as hard in some ways to lose Lue (who does not get NEARLY enough credit for what he brings to this team). But this would bring us a 26 year-old PG with a great touch from the perimeter and outstanding passing and court vision.

This would allow us to use the #3 on Yi without worry, and use the #11 on the best 5 available - be it Hawes, Noah, or Splitter.

I’m not one who usually compiles rosters, but the above changes would give the Hawks the following set-up for next year:

C - Zaza Pachulia C - Lorenzen Wright (waiver or IR?) C - Soloman Jones C/PF - Hawes, Noah, or Splitter PF - Yi Jianlian PF - Shelden Williams PF/SF - Marvin Williams SF/PF - Josh Smith SG - Joe Johnson SG - Salim Stoudamire PG - Luke Ridnour PG - Speedy Claxton PG - Lue or A.J.

I didn’t provide specific depth charts above, but I’d imagine our starting 5 would be Zaza, Marvin, Josh, Joe, and Luke.

Note that there’s an odd man out somewhere here. I don’t know who that would actually be, but as I indicated, I suspect Lorenzen might get put on IR.

That’s a lineup that instantly improves by 8-10 wins at a minimum, I think, and gives us serious cushioning if we face injuries again this year.

What do you guys think?

By LAJ

June 9, 2007 8:47 PM | Link to this

what new uniforms? where can i get information? mike conley #1.

By Ryder

June 9, 2007 9:16 PM | Link to this

Wow Matt your trade scenario was better than Sekou’s (nothing personal Sekou, just saying…) It does make total sense. Atlanta gets a veteran PG and can spend the rest of the draft concentrating on getting bigger inside.

I think BK would feel better getting a veteran PG as opposed to a rookie, especially on such a young team who wants to finally win. Financially it works just like you said and it will help put Speedy on the bench where he and Luke would make a better combo.

Oh and Sekou, please please don’t place anymore articles on Brandon Wright. What’re you trying to do, influence BK that it’s ok to draft yet another swingman lol? He may actually read your piece (good stuff) and say “Hey they don’t mind me drafting another swingman with potential”. I understand Wright is going to possibly be really good one day but not here in Atlanta.

By james jones

June 9, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

how is it that we are looking to go past yi but if seattle takes him we’re pouncing on durant??? because it’s the right thing to do damnit. if we’vbeen told the top three prospects r oden, durant and yi… why the hell r we tryna draft otherwise for? and what’s the difference btwn horford hu was my best player in collee this year) and shelden? oh i’ll tell you shelden shoots way better. so we can’t waste the draft on another 6 9er, 6 8er. we need someone to be in the 7foot range. and all u idiots callin yi a 3 when have u ever seen him play the three? u dimwitts he played center/ power fwd in the wrld championships and in his chinese league. so quit the BS. and what the heck was all that racial tension in above posts? u guys ae funny as hell. scott u don’t call anybody out like that, i actually always thought sekou was white and i’m black (nigerian) and i was one of the people who ride the yi wagon because i believe it’s a subway compared to the wright, horford, conley choo choo train. don’t say things like that. we both gunning for yi but saing something lke tht makes me feel like i might be on the dimwitt wagon. but really ya’ll now ther’s no more conley talk but the new deal is comparing yi to old picks and trading the pick for other players? it is sounding like BS and i guess that’s what scott doesn’t comprehend and trust me that makes 2 of us and i definately aint racially sceptic. it sounds like ya’llare on a anything but yi wagon and thgats jus dumn. (i kknow it’s not all of ya’ll). and yes woodson is annoyingly annoying but he’s here thru next season so let’s give him one more chance. and if he messes up again he’s kapoote.

By St. Bernard

June 9, 2007 9:33 PM | Link to this

Everything I’ve read from Sekou the past few days always has a hint of Horford. Would that be a good choice at #3? Seems like most folks are still confused as to what to do with this pick. I still say if we keep the picks Conley and Hawes are the way to go. Conley is a more athletic Parker, and Hawes is the second best offensive center in the draft. We’ve got enough bodies to throw out there and hack people on defense inside. We need someone who can actually make a post up move. Speedy has proven he can raise a point guard, so let him do his work with Conley (CP and Tony Parker). Don’t fall for the Chinese hype machine. I read where Ainge said the kid got stopped by a folding chair a couple times in his workout…BUT I BET THAT WASN’T ON YOUTUBE!!!!

By james jones

June 9, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

matt and ryder i saaid that on the last blog we don’t need to mess with our draft picks if we trade well with seattle. God knows i love marvin but gimme rashad lewis starting at 3 anytime.

By james jones

June 9, 2007 9:46 PM | Link to this

” Don’t fall for the Chinese hype machine. I read where Ainge said the kid got stopped by a folding chair a couple times in his workout…BUT I BET THAT WASN’T ON YOUTUBE!!!!” u and ainge are nuts. camby was defensive player of the year last year but he was posterized a couple of times during that run. (even marvin ate him). so thats a crappy stat. cause durant is skinnier andsmaller but e’s not a bad idea u guys need to quit the yi BS. its not humorous any more. compar him to vlade or dirk or okur or iglauskas or gasol…. stop the darko talk caus at the end of the day they picked the best player that year at number 5 ya’ll. DAMN!!!!!

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 10:04 PM | Link to this

St Bernard I don’t think it’s at all clear that Conley is a better athlete than Parker. It damn sure isn’t clear that he’ll be a better player.There’s more to being an athlete than speed and strength.Parker has great coordination and agility as well as great speed and quickness.Add to that the most important factor.He has proven he can do the job at an all star level in the NBA.There isn’t a GM or coach in the league who would choose Conley over Parker at this point.At least not a sane one.

By reese

June 9, 2007 10:11 PM | Link to this

james jones, if yi is compared to dirk, vlade, okur, iglauskas or gasol then we should be happy. Do you know what all of those players have in common. They have been in the playoffs.

Danny Ainge has the number 5 pick and will lie to get team above him to bypass players he wants.

Bernie Mullin has already stated that Yi was impressive in workouts. Now, its up to the hawks to workout the other players that they are considering and make a decision based upon facts and not the James Jones hype machine.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

reese More time than you’re willing to give Shelden ? Somebody needs a reality check.You’re a fan ! I’m sure BK will consider your opinion the same way he will the rest of ours,not at all I’m guessing.Mavid do you not recognize that your judgement or lack of, should be factored in by any and all when considering your opinion ?You’re the guy that doesn’t like the Spurs because they’re not as sweet as you.Grow up thumb sucker.

By ray

June 9, 2007 10:25 PM | Link to this

Matt,

I have to agree with Ryder and say that your trade scenario with Seattle is not only good-looking, but as reasonable and do-able as could be expected. Especially the bit at the end about the conditional 2nd rounder (condition being which pg they choose to take in trade). I still feel like we could’ve used that 2nd round pick we traded for AJ, but that’s another story.

The only thing missing is a veteran big who’s worth his salt. But, if we draft a good big (and not sure who we’d get at #11) then that’s covered, we just don’t have a step-in-now type that can help groom the draftee. Zaza just isn’t tough enough and L.Wright seems to have gone off the deep end as far as effective play is concerned. Again, Matt, nice ideas.

I like the idea of veteran help via trade, whether it be pg or center that gets filled. Draft only isn’t going to work, I’m afraid. At least not in the next year or two. Not if we like the idea of playoffs. But then, what do I know.

Well, I see the Yi train is no ordinary locomotive. Interesting. The 28th is just too far away….

By doc

June 9, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this

gee a’ville, if you are going to be contentious at least entertain with something more than 2nd grade taunts. hope you have a better game than that.

now, honest the ninna is surly quick witted and now apologetic if his red bull gets the best of him, flash is the barrister that doesnt miss a word, ray is class personified, aj the gentleman, ando the andro, etc. you bring schoolyard taunts, what is the point?

By honest_abe

June 9, 2007 10:35 PM | Link to this

aville: seriously though, is there some kind of rule where you have to like a certain team? so someone doens’t like the spurs. who gives a damn?

i don’t like watching the spurts either. it doesn’t mean i don’t appreciate good basketball. i respect the spurs for all they’ve been able to accomplish, but they just aren’t enterting from my point of view. maybe its because they have a superstar, who for all is great attributes just isn’t that entertaining. maybe it’s because they have a french guy running the point and who likes the french? or maybe its because they have bruce bowen. while he might be one of the best defenders in the league, he reminds you of that cat you hated playing with. the guy who always took pick up games too seriously, was always hand checking, pushing, undercutting and pretty much doing everything he could to get into your head. if not for those reasons, maybe its because they have manu ginobli, who has great athletic ability but something about his game just has circus written all over it and although i can respect its results i still don’t have to like it!

there are certain teams that just don’t excite the general public. think pistons of late or of old or the jazz in the late 90’s. teams that don’t have an engaging superstar or have an exciting style of ball just don’t catch the public’s attention. does this mean we don’t know basketball or appreciate the beauty of the game played at it’s purest form? no. it just means we find the spurs as a team boring and not very interesting. don’t believe me? check out those ratings. nuff said.

By ray

June 9, 2007 10:37 PM | Link to this

Okay, I don’t get the love lavished on Shelden Williams. The guy’s not a dog, but how many times are we going to keep this up? Given Shelden’s overall performance and playing time one of two things almost has to be evident: either Woodys is just insane and hates Shelden…OR, he really was never good enough to replace any of the forwards or center in the starting lineup. In fact, he wasn’t good enough to get off the bench after the early on performnaces to supplant the likes of Lorenzen (through most of the season), and Solomon Jones (late in the season). He got most of his opportunities and stats when either Marvin was hurt, or something was wrong with other players. And then, it was like he kept getting “garbage time” stats. Hey, that’s how it looked to me.

Even when he had some good games, he did NOT look anything like a dominant player or a player with the ability to dominate. He didn’t even look that solid. Well, I take that back, he looked good on the boards sometimes. But he almost NEVER looked solid on “D”. Nobody worried about being stopped by him in the paint. Nobody. I don’t want to see him get a handful of boards. I want to see him ripping rebounds down all the time, fighting for the ball, and intimidating any player willing to enter the lane.

James Jones, I gotta hand it to you. Your posts are always entertaining, especially with all the incredibly bad grammar and spelling. We all have opinions, but you’re one of the few who I have to cipher through grammatically before I can decide just how much BS you’re talking, or if you’re serious. Heh….

By honest_abe

June 9, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

oh a difference does a year make. it was only a year ago everyone was all caught up in turning in their draft projections. whatever happened to that anyway?

and where the heck is ando. the most entertaining threads, no offense everyone else, were the back and forth by ando and aj.

ray: sheldon is never going to intimidate anyone, so might as well put that wish to rest. but i still do think he is going to be a solid contributor. is he going to live up to being the 5th pick? probably not, but it wasn’t his fault bk picked him so early. his play late in the season gives good cause for optimism for this upcoming season. i will go out on a limb here and say he’ll be our leading rebounder next year. ok maybe not much of a limb but you get my drift. as for reasons to why he didn’t play. because woody wanted him to be some kind of enforcer, like lorenzen. just go in and foul hard. i don’t think he ever played like that or was coached like that so he got a little confused as to his role on the team. but he was forced into action (starting action) late in the season and produced.

can’t forget the good ol doc. the resident sensei who always puts things in perspective.

By Ryder

June 9, 2007 10:58 PM | Link to this

Ray, Shelden is who he is, I don’t think that he’ll get to the point where he could be considered dominating, or at least intimidating.

James Jones, I think that BK will go for Yi and draft Law at 11 because he prefers those hybrid players. I don’t understand why he’s not too keen on smaller PGs, but I think it’s more about Woodson’s inability to coach them perhaps. Must be the teaching of Larry Brown getting to him or something. Anyway, I think Bk will stick to his usual thinking of getting players who can play multiple positions and get Yi at 3. I know I’ll be happy.

By G-thang

June 9, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

I am tryin’ to understand the Seattle trade talks that you guys are throwin’ out there. How do you all figure that we have anything that they would want. The only players on our team that anyone would clammer for is JJ and JSmoove. Lighten up on the Seattle trade talk. They don’t want nothin’ we got.

By Al

June 9, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

forget the draft picks I want to see the new jerseys

By mavid

June 9, 2007 11:33 PM | Link to this

A-Ville Ranger, I wanna thank Honest Abe, Doc and Ray, for making me not have to type as much in response to your BS.

A thumb-sucker? Are you serious?

I explained in detail why I don’t like the Spurs in a previous post. I also said that I respect the fact they are a great time. I just don’t like them (what’s the big deal with that?). I strongly dislike their players (Parker annoys me, Ginobili is a soft flopper, and Bowen is probably the most unlikable douche-bag in the league… Honest Abe hit the nail on the head when he said he’s that guy everyone hates in the pickup game cause he constantly acts like a little biatch).

You STILL haven’t responded to any of my questions about Shelly’s ACTUAL production on the court this past season.

I’ll re-post what I wrote above:

Did you actually watch games, or did you just look at boxscores and stat sheets? Do you not recognize how Shelden actually performed on the court?

He was more a liability than an asset a lot of the time, and that is unacceptable.

By you sticking up for Shelly’s performance this PAST year, your basketball knowledge is dubious in my eyes. Anyone who defends his play when he was actually on the court (when Woody let him play) is delusional.

Now, I’m not saying he can’t improve as he gets a better feel for the NBA game in the next couple seasons (and understands that there are NECESARRY things he must do as a defensive-minded, rebounding 4/5), but this past season, he WAS flat-out not very good.

Any comments on that?

The Hawks are my favorite team, so I honestly hope that Shelly can become better. I think he will too. The point is he has to learn that he is on our team to do certain things (dominate the glass, play interior D, etc). He just flat-out DID NOT do those things effectively much of this past season. These are facts my friend.

On a related note, I think someone like Al Horford will be a much more effective pro than Shelden (even though they have similar body types and are often compared). Horford is quicker and more athletic than Shelden. This translates better to the NBA game (and much better to our specific team). Shelden would do way better in a more half-court oriented system like S.A, Utah or Indy.

So, A-ville, you like Shelden Williams, the Spurs and call people thumb-suckers? You sound like a proto-typical douche-bag from Duke (or someone who cheers for Duke but neither had the grades nor the money to get in… or you could just be 12). Just my opinion.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 11:35 PM | Link to this

Ray Your comments on Shelden, bud I’ve got’a call you on this one.First a rebound is a rebound,style points are for losers.As far as garbage points.His best games were when he got starters minutes.Here’s some game stats.These are all the games where he played 30 or more minutes.He had some good stats in games where he had under 30 but I decided this would make my point better.nov-22 13 reb 20 pts nov - 25 8 reb 16 pts dec - 29 11 reb 11 pts jan - 31 10 reb 9 pts mar - 14 reb 9 pts last four games of the season 10 reb 14 pts 11 reb 13 pts 17 reb 16 pts 10 reb 21 pts.

By mavid

June 9, 2007 11:37 PM | Link to this

oh, and if you wanna question my bball knowledge, my draft picks for last year (prior to the draft):

Brandon Roy and Paul Millsap

Hmm, I wonder how that wouldve worked out?

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

Mavid now,now suck that thumb and calm.

By doc

June 9, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

well mavid, glad we didnt get the full report. heh heh and good picks last year, if we had done that though we would have had very few draft picks this year to argue about. it would be boring about now. instead, we are all pregnant with anticipation, didnt realize we agreed on roy.

namaste guys. maybe we will all wake up on the better side in the morn …. then again maybe not. since we are pregnant maybe it was a hormonal day.

after reading the article on the unc kid i’d rather babysit with yi than him.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 9, 2007 11:57 PM | Link to this

Shelden averaged 11.55 reb and 14.33 pts when he played 30 or more minutes.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 10, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this

Mavid I’ve never called anybody a thumb sucker before.Make what you will of that fact.thumb sucker! GO SPURS!! GO DUKE !!!GO BOBCATS!!!

By Charles

June 10, 2007 12:16 AM | Link to this

“I read where Ainge said the kid got stopped by a folding chair a couple times in his workout…BUT I BET THAT WASN’T ON YOUTUBE!!!!”

link please

By doc

June 10, 2007 12:23 AM | Link to this

ok a’ville. i’ll call you on the stats for sheldon who i have been somewhat supportive of. your data though is hugely misleading. frankly it only shows how poor a season that he might have had.

there were only 10 games out of 82 that he played that many. 5 were in april …. can you say “mop up man”. the sad thing about those stats are the reality that he didnt bring anything that came close to making a difference as the team was 2 and 8 in those 10 games.

please dont yell out of comtext because that is what you were trying to do by isolating the numbers, i guess it would be different if the hawks had been the reverse, 8 and 2 but they weren’t. they were miserable when he was allowed to play 30 minutes or more.

i have reconsidered any positive thoughts about sheldon and now feel he was a total failure, thanks for the insight. i cant excuse that kind of data and call him a winner.

By doc

June 10, 2007 12:26 AM | Link to this

ainge is the absolute worst gm in the league, hands down. if i were yi i’d show him nothing to keep him from drafting me. he has single handedly destroyed one of the best nba franchises in history. take it with a grain of salt.

By mavid

June 10, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

haha, alright man. You still havent actually answered my substantive question about Shelly’s play (I’m assuming you just never watched any Hawks games and are basing your arguments on the premise of his play at Duke), so I’m done with you.

I also have the high suspicion that you have yet to hit puberty. Plus, anyone who goes for Duke and S.A. has to be a douche.

By Rcky_Mtn

June 10, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

Frankly, I didn’t like any of your trade scenarios.

I’d rather sign Mo Williams as a FA from the Bucks to take over at PG, he’s only 24 and ready to lead a team. His production is comparable to Deron & Chris Paul.

Then with 3 & 11 we can be creative to find the center we’ve been lacking.

I’ve heard Hibbert withdrew his name and is returning to Georgetown, but the NBA is still listing him as a prospect for 2007.

Anyone know his status for sure ?

By james jones

June 10, 2007 12:44 AM | Link to this

i’m happy that u at least read every post ray. and even though i short hand a lot i’m also glad you understand what i’m talking/typing about. i’m a spurs person too by the way you all and i play ball so i know the value of a point guard that finishes well, a shooting guard that can create his own shot and a good defensive (annoying)player on my team. so i can’t dismiss them. and of course a tim duncan too. but all that is by the way no more thumbsucking stuff please. i am just glad we let the conley wheel barrow go. and actually are talking locomotives now. we need a 7 footer and we have the chance to get the best one available we can’t pass on that you all please pray for us and BK.

ok ray hope that was good enof for ya? no grammatical errors or shorthand typos. i figured if ya’ll have kids that send text messages on your phones ya’ll cud read that stuff. and for the most part i’m serious when it comes to the hawks. they are my team you know. i hope to invest in them as soon as they start actin right.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 10, 2007 1:03 AM | Link to this

Mavid those stats I listed are pro numbers genius not college.GO SPURS!!Doc —- you guys don’t have the comprehension of an average 10 year old.If you hear yelling when you read on the computer,perhaps the problem is some sort of mental imbalance.That would be good news in your case as it might be treatable, where as limited mental capacity is not.

By wtf

June 10, 2007 1:16 AM | Link to this

James Jones for some reason you think just because a player is 7 foot tall then he is the answer for the Hawks low post problems defensively. YI is a center in the CHINESE LEAGUE not the NBA. Its already been reported that he is not very strong so being tall does not help him defensively. If being tall is all that mattered a guy like Bradley would be a Hall of Famer. You say people dont know if he can play center yet your basing your opinion on how good he will be on youtube clips and what the so called experts say. So please explain to me how it is ok for you to think he is the 3rd best player based on opinions but its not ok for others not to think he will be a center in the NBA. He is being compared to Dirk. The last time I checked Dirk was not a center. Like someone said earlier we will continue to make questionable picks and be wondering every year the woulda coulda shouldas instead of getting it right when we could have. Actually die hard and others who have compared this to groundhogs day, this might be worse. At least in the movie I knew it was going to be a happy ending and Bill Murrah finally figured out what he needed to do to fix things. For whatever reason BK looks over the obvious.

By mavid

June 10, 2007 1:27 AM | Link to this

haha, yes, they are stats, but you didnt actually watch the games? you’re in no place to call people out on their intellect my man.

By Matt

June 10, 2007 2:45 AM | Link to this

Mavid, Doc, and Anakin Joe,

What do you think of the trade I proposed above? (8:44pm Saturday night)

By edgar

June 10, 2007 5:09 AM | Link to this

Y’all, give James Jones a break…man said he’s from Nigeria, right? English might not be his forte. However, his Yi Liantishvili logic may be off point as well…For the thousandth time: Woody + young, barely proven talent = disaster. The Ridnour scenario Matt came up with (that others beat me in praising) makes sense…even though I’d hate to see T Lue go. He deserves to be with this team during our playoff runs.

Speaking of the playoffs, basketball is still occurring outside this pre-draft hysteria we all find ourselves completely obsessed with. Take a look at Cleveland. Replace everyone besides Lebron with a current Hawk. Does this team still win the Eastern Conference? I think they might. I’m not trying to make a point about Lebron’s greatness…I’m saying that the Hawks are really only a few more pieces and a coach away from being a dominant force in the horribly weak eastern conference. BK is not as bad as people are saying. Lorenzen was a mistake, and so was Speedy, but I maintain that Woody asked for Speedy and Sheldon over a pg in the draft.

Also, why is my dream scenario 3rd in the AJC.com poll? Do y’all really want Wilcox over KG???

And please, stop with the Yi at 2 talk. Durant will go at number 2. This has been a fact of life since December.

By doc

June 10, 2007 8:22 AM | Link to this

the hawks are about two or three athletic players away, if two of them are bigs. the cavs are one of the tallest teams in the league without having a bruiser in the middle unless gooden fits the mold. if we get two more athletic bigs then we are going somewhere.

wtf, wtf is right. the folks that have supported getting yi for the most part consider yi a 4 with a possible chance to work at three. it is funny how may people disagree with the yi pick because they want to make him a 5. really there are NO true fives in the lottery once oden is gone except hawes who is more a project than say a noah. that isnt the argument. so what is your point? there isnt a lottery pick that doesnt have a blemish that we can all harp on whether it be youth. size. experience, ltd upside, etc. once one tries to compare the hawks to the cavs you are wrong in that they overmatch us with size not strength like way too many teams do. sat there courtside and watched it happen over and over and over again. overmatch the post and overmatch the guards with size or speed and we were done, toast.

matt since i liked scenario one the most i like your example as well. i really dont know luke, just trying to get a handle on him by his stats which looked healthy. if you could slide speedy out of here it might be better.

james jones liked your cool and love man. however, i have three kids that do the shorthand stuff and it doesnt help me at all trying to read your stuff. catch my drift?

By destin

June 10, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

I agree that landing a starting center in the draft ‘ain’t gonna happen’. So, we need to take Yi at #3 and Crittenton at #11. Looking at the film of Yi was very enlightening — his speed and the way he can handle the ball, for a man his size, is impressive. Crittenton has a lot to learn, but has the size and talent to become a top PG. We could break him in slowly next year. In a year or two, these could both be star players.

This leaves the gaping hole in the middle. The organization must work tirelessly to put some kind of deal together that will bring us a quality center. I know this is not easy, but we have some bargaining chips and some cap space to work with, so no stone should be left unturned to fill this vital position.

By Big G Money

June 10, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

Doc makes a good point. There are no real nba-ready centers to choose in this draft other than Oden. Somewhat insulted Larry Bird’s legacy by comparing Hawes to him, but he is truly a project that may not work. We could use a power forward and a point guard. However that could create a couple of different scenarios.
1) What happens to JSmoove? Do we need someone other than him to play the 4? Can he play the 3 spot and Yi play 4? I think we’re building something with Yi and Smoove. However we haven’t solved our center issue and we haven’t solved our pg issue. 2) At 11 do we take a big, a point, or trade for Jack or Ridnour? Is that enough given that we already have AJ, TLue, and Speedy. Why do we need another just ok pg. Why can’t we trade up and get Yi and Conley??? No one is talking about a trade with potentially Memphis, the Celtics or Milwaukee. Why not?

By St. Bernard

June 10, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

Charles, the quote is on Hoopshype from Friday I believe in the rumors section about the draft.

For whoever it was that said I was crazy to think Conley was better than Parker now is right, but the problem is that I never said that. I was comparing their speed, penetration, ability to distribute, and not being giant pgs. For all those willing to pass up a point guard again, I suppose the discussion is over. These same arguments were all made when we picked Marvin over CP, Deron, Raymond and somewhat less than when we picked Sheldon over Roy, Marcus, and Rondo. The comparison between picking Marvin over the other pg’s is especially relevant. He’s a tall guy that plays the 2 or 3. He has lots of potential. All the GM’s love him. You even had more to base your facts on then. I was a Paul supporter then. He was young quick and small. Just to prove I’m not just making this up, I didn’t like Deron Williams then. I thought he was lazy and wouldn’t keep working in the NBA. (Sometimes you hit, and sometimes you miss.)If everyone really wants Yi, then lets work a trade for him. Let’s pick up Conley and Hawes later. It won’t be the pretty picks that some flock to every year, but it is the right thing to do for our team.

Trade down with someone who wants Yi, take Conley and Hawes. Get a vet or more picks from the trade and use them on another big guy like the shot blocker from BC, Josh McRoberts, Splitter, Aaron Grey, even Noah depending on where the pick falls. We would be better off with Conley, Hawes and any other athletic big than with Yi and Critt.

By G-thang

June 10, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Somebody please explain to me why Seattle, T’wolves, or Grizzlies would be intrested in any of our players outside of JJ or JSmoove? All of the trade scenarios that Sekou threw out sound good from a HAWKS perspective, but there are perspective of those teams also. So, Sekou or anyother person, could you please explain why these scenarios are good from the other teams’ perspective? If you can’t, then why are we even discussing these trade scenarios?

By doc

June 10, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

g money i didnt compare hawes to bird. that was someone else saying it to reference the lack of hops in bird but it didnt get in the way of his ability. someone was dissing hawes hops so that comparison came out. bird, magic, earvin, big o, alcindor, mj were incomparable and all came out and immediately impacted the teams they were on. cant say any of these teens and that is what we are getting excited about can do that. remember, kobe, laron, garnett all took time. it is what there is so lets not think otherwise and be patient.

the only way this team improves dramatically is if it steals someone unexpectedly in free agency. my thoughts are the broken atlanta spirit is hamstrung by the courts to do any of that and will spend only what the lawyers say they can which means the cap or close to it. no team goes far with those limitations. bigs are more expensive on the free market than littles and they play less. if i want value then i collect my bigs in the drafts and move on as the income changes.

though yi isnt a five he puts pressure on defenses because of his height and manuverability that strategically is important for negating the fact we dont have the prototypical big, yet. hawes is the only guy projected top eleven that looks like he could truly grow into that role if that is what we want. so go get him if available or hope someone drops. if someone doesnt drop then other gm’s are thinking the same way we are saying it doesnt matter who it is this is the year to get some height to a team. if that be the case then crit or brewer might be available both to be studs in the league. if we get brewer then chills can be traded and maybe that trade that matt projects becomes a reality without hurting the chemistry of what is built with chills in mind.

By travis

June 10, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

Gilbert Arenas has said that he will opt out of his contract next year to test the market. Could we clear cap space, package some deals to get him here in a Hawks uni next year? Could he help us? In addition to planning this year, we should also be looking at next year, especially since we do not have a 1st round draft pick, as of yet

By doc

June 10, 2007 12:43 PM | Link to this

travis, chris paul is thought to be doing the same thing next year. i’d prefer him over arenas.

By Mike The Mechanic

June 10, 2007 1:34 PM | Link to this

How many people here will be at phillips arena for the draft party?

By travis

June 10, 2007 1:56 PM | Link to this

doc, i would rather have cp2, but if we pull the trigger on conley or critt, this year that won’t be possible for arenas or cp. i think that the Hawks planning is too short sighted. they keep planning for THIS year, rather than planning for this year and 3 years from now. The moves have been sporadic, and aimless. 02-Dan Dickau, 03-Diaw, 04 Childres and JSmith, 05-Marvin Williams, 06-S. Williams. Dickau and Diaw are not even with the team now, we passed on 3pt guards in these years. What is our goal or plan. Also, if you don’t bolster the roster thru the draft, make prudent moves via free agency, which we haven’t done. You can’t just plan for today. I think that a team needs to plan atleast 3 yrs out. So I challenge all of you bloggers who are sayin’ what to do with the 3 and 11. How will this help us 2 years from now?

By travis

June 10, 2007 2:28 PM | Link to this

Mechanic Mike I plan on being there. I am a season ticket holder. If the Hawks make some serious moves on draft night, I am going to upgrade on the spot.

By Clyde

June 10, 2007 3:07 PM | Link to this

Mike The Mechanic the official FIRE BILLY AND WOODY t-shirt will be on full display for the draqft party.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Anakin Joe

June 10, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this

Doc, probably Law at #11. At first, I was thinking Crittenton. But if we go with Yi (who is a project), I would want the most likely PG ready to contribute. For all of the concerns about Law not being a pass-first PG, I’m okay with that. Hawks can’t afford to play 4 on 5 and even guys like Andre Miller have had problems winning in this league. If we draft Crit, I wouldn’t be too upset, but it would likely mean that JJ’s time with the team was somewhat wasted, as Yi, Crit, Marvin and Solomon all seem like 2-3 year projects.

Matt, I would make thattrade tha you proposed. I haven’t seen a lot of Ridnour, but I’d still make that move in a heart beat.

By Bk the town idiot

June 10, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

When I found out that we got the 3rd and 11th pick I was more than happy but the longer it has taken for the draft to get here and the more BK talks the more im dreading the draft. It sounds as if he will trade one or both picks for veteran help (the vets really worked last year). He said that Conley and Wright are too young. I was never a Wright fan so Im not mad at that one but I like Conley. There is no way in hell Speedy holds up more than 50 games with those bad knees. His refusal to take a young gifted point guard is more than baffling. He also said something about playing Sheldon more minutes at the center position this year. Yea what the hell ever. Does BK just not get it?. If YI is not the pick I see us taking Hortford. I like AL and what not but this guy is damn near another Sheldon Williams. How many more players are we going to take and make them play out of position. Im so sick of this crap. It is so freaking hard to be a Hawks fan. Can the spirit group get some damn balls and fire this guy before he ruins yet another draft for us.

By Matt

June 10, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this

Clyde,

Seriously, do you have absolutely no class? You’re going to show up to the official draft party with shirts condemning the key figures in the organization that’s SPONSORING the party? Honest to god, bro, that’s zero class. Have your own draft party for that. They’re spending money to light, cool, and staff the place for the night. They don’t have to do that. Lord knows the 6’ers people don’t do that.

Show some class, Clyde. Show some class.

By reese

June 10, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

I have seen ridenour play and he is not an upgrade over TLue or Speedy claxton. I’ve said this before and I’ll repeat for all of you new people who have joined the blog.

Seattle has 2 players similar to the hawks JJ and JSmith. They are Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis. Seattle was a playoff team and made a choice to keep Ridenour and let go of Antonio Daniels. They have not made the playoffs since making that decision.

By mavid

June 10, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Matt, I already wrote a long response that didnt get posted (I wrote it on my girlfriends computer which I guess the AJC didnt like at the time)

Here goes again, attempt number 2.

I like that trade. It`s pragmatic and realistic. While I think J-chill may eventually prove himself the better pro, Ridnour would be more of what this team needs at present (starting pg vs. backup sg/sf).

Seattle is actually my 2nd favorite team behind ATL (Ray Allen was always my favorite player, now he is 2nd behind　Joe; I always loved those green and yellow sonic jerseys and think they currently have the best unis in the league; Also, im currently studying in Vancouver, Canada, so I have that connection).

In fact, being in Vancouver, I was able to watch a lot of Sonics games. Here`s the low-down on Luke.

Offensively, he is exactly what we need. He distributes with the best of them and can consistently hit his shot (he WILL make a 3 if left open… pretty much automatic). He also has that Steve Nash-like midrange game where he drives in for a floater. He makes that shot consistently too.

The problem is his defense. He may be one of the worst on-ball pg defenders in the league. Players routinely blow past him (I saw a game where AI just abused him over and over). He isnt very strong, and that hinders him a lot of the time (I think he may be one of the only players I am a better physical specimen than.. Im 6 2, 180).

However, that may not be a huge problem if Speedy can get back to some semblance of health (Speedy being one of the BEST on-ball defenders in the league). Ideally, Luke would start, distribute the ball to our scorers and occasionally hit his shot (think 14 ppg, 6-7 apg). Speedy would come in and play 20-30 minutes a night, providing needed defense at the pg position. A platoon of the two could be highly effective.

Here`s the thing though. With a change of scenery, Luke could still become an all-star in my opinion (he was invited to the national team for a reason). However, the big question is how he will compare to whoever we can get at 11 (Law or Crittenton).

If either of those two ends up being head and shoulders above him, the trade would look bad in hindsight. Still, Luke is a legit starter, where those two arent yet.

So, Id do the trade, but would really want BK to evaluate talent in comparison to pgs in this draft (to see which route is best).

But, at the same time, im not sure Seattle does the trade (putting all your eggs in an Earl Watson basket is not the smartest thing to do, in my opinion). I think they still value Luke more than we give them credit for.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 10, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this

Big-G Money Hawes is a project ? do you know the definition of the word ? He may have limitations based on athleticism,but raw ? that’s just plain nonsense. The guy is much more skilled than Oden offensively.Again bro humor me,what does project mean to you ? The guy is at or near the top of the list of players ready to contribute.

By doc

June 10, 2007 5:11 PM | Link to this

aj, cant argue that idea and i am beggining to think that he is less of a risk than crit if we pick a guard this draft. i’d prefer not. we have no room for risk as any total flops cant be bought out of the trouble.

does anyone think law is as good as foye? he was a guy folks fell in love with and wanted at five, me it was roy all the way. if that had been done we would be stocking up on bigs and not considering a guard. i think any big this year through the top 14 picks will be a better nba player than sheldon. i could understand and rationalize his selection last year but he wont ever earn his money and/or draft position unless he gets some cohones from his fiance.last year’s off season was a bust in rens, speedy and sheldon. we cant afford that kind of an off season two years in a row or the suns will enjoy a very high draft pick, belatedly.

By reese

June 10, 2007 5:24 PM | Link to this

Travis, currently, BK has the potential to address the future and the present.

BK is in a position of power right now. He doesn’t need to trade down while having the number 3 pick. He can acquire a player that will go a long way towards balancing out this team at a relatively low cost.

With the number 11 pick, he can look to trade up and acquire another need to balance out this team as well as send away a player or players to make room for free agents. If he doesn’t like his options, he can still draft a quality player.

There are point guard and Center Free agents available too take care of the present or use in the future for trades.

With the core of JJ and Jsmith and two quality draft prospects, the hawks will look much more attractive to free agents.

By Jay

June 10, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

Matt, get over yourself. So he wants to show that he is a p** off fan. Big deal. He has every right to do that, especially with the results that they have given us. Im not going to feel bad for millionaires who run my team so poorly that a 30-win season is an improvement.

By travis

June 10, 2007 7:31 PM | Link to this

We need to get rid of Lorenzen Wright 2.6 pts per game and 4 reb for 3.5 mil ain’t worth it. Shelden actually had better games at center. C-ZaZa, Sheldon. We must go bigs at 3 Hawes/Noah/B.Wright or Horford. These guys have the body to play 4 or 5, except B. Wright. PF-JSmoove and fill in the blank with one of the above guys. We are okay at the 3 With M. Williams/Childress. We need to take J.Critt at 11, he will be there. Conley Jr. at 3, IS a stretch when we have serviceable pg in Lue/Speedy and then draft the pg at 11.

By terrell barron

June 10, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

I just watched the 2001 nba finals between LA and Philly on Classic. I just happened to look on Philly’s bench and guess who I saw, the one and only Craig Claxton. He was dressed very nicely as usual, with all the bling. This guy is always injured. We cant count on speedy. I recently jumped on the YI train, but if we cant trade up from 11 and get conley, we might have to take him at three. I guess I’m going to have to trust Billy on this one. That’s a scary thought.

By Josh

June 10, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

I know everyone is gonna jump all over this but count me on the Yi bandwagon. Saw the highlight reels of the guy and I’ve gotta say that anybody who sees that kid as anything less than a poor man’s KG is simply biased against the international players. I saw a 7 foot man get a hand in the passing lane, steal the ball, then dribble the ball all the way down for a dunk. I saw him face up at 20 feet against Gasol, blow by him with his LEFT and throw it down. And he does have low post moves as well, albeit against lesser competition. Course, it don’t matta whose checkin you when you can drop in jump hooks from 2 feet over the rim. If they could get this guy at 3, then Ridnour or Jack in trade for the 11, I think you’d be surprised how good they would be. This guy could go 15 & 8 next season playing the 4. Easy. Don’t comment unless you’ve checked him out…

By doc

June 10, 2007 8:14 PM | Link to this

yeah josh, it was quite a highlight reel. it showed athleticism and hops, a huge advantage for a guy 7 ft and expecting to fill out. he also has some muscle mass on him and certainly some leg. i was most impressed with his hands. he used both hands and moved both ways with a soft touch at times looking like things slowed down into slow motion.

if what michael reported is true that the players around him have been impressed i take that as cred instead of the stuff that ainge supposedly said. highlight reels are misleading but he showed more than a stuff shot, he does like to hang on the rim. that in itself suggests a coordinated body for a tall big.

By terrell barron

June 10, 2007 8:15 PM | Link to this

Travis, you got that right; SERVICEABLE

By smartguy

June 10, 2007 8:19 PM | Link to this

I got your back, Clyde. Heaven forbid someone might actually have an intelligent point of view down there.

By travis

June 10, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

Guys Yi may turn out to be all of that and a bag of chips, but he could turn out to be crumbs, too. Y’all would take Yi’s numbers against lesser talent, than Horford/Noah, 2 times NCAA champs and Wright’s numbers in the ACC? I would take my chances with the American boys numbers. You know that Horford/Noah/Wright/Hawes played against some stiff competition. Y’all saw it with your own eyes. But you all would invest 12mil in an unknown and untested guy based on some highlites?

By Clyde

June 10, 2007 9:10 PM | Link to this

Matt I’m trying to change the team I love not show class. Everyone has the right to freedom of speech.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By ray

June 10, 2007 9:11 PM | Link to this

A-ville,

I realize we disagree, but you’re not understanding me at all. I never said anything about style points. I’ve looked for substance out of Sheldon, and not seen what was expected. He was drafted to contribute right away. I was and still am willing to allow for the fact that Woody benched him alot. And perhaps Woody was wrong in some of his decisions. And perhaps he caused Sheldon to be timid on the court, fearful that he might mess up and be relegated to the bench once more. Which is exactly what kept happening. But when he did get the playing time, he did produce some of the time. Like others have noticed, it was in garbage minutes for the most part. Also, he seemed out of place on defense so very often. They called the man “the Landlord” in college because he got so many rebounds and blocks in college. He showed virtually none of this defensive prowess last season. He looked more like “The Lot Lizard” than “the Landlord.” I don’t dislike the guy. But he didn’t even seem to have the instincts to play good defense in the NBA. As for stats, anybody can collect and frame them in such a way as to bolster their argument. However, the whole picture on Sheldon’s game tells a different story than YOU tell. For his sake and the team’s I hope he improves by a large margin. Now, I’ve restated my point without calling you names or insulting your intelligence. I hope you can do the same.

Doc, Mavid, thankyou for reaffirming what I was trying to say about Sheldon. I think perhaps you said it with more clarity and less of a complaining tone than I did.

By doc

June 10, 2007 9:12 PM | Link to this

gee travis, i’m sorry to interject and ever so apolgetically choose to disagree but didnt we do just what you want to do last year with the proud and almighty sheldon from the greatest coached team the dukie blue devels in college, always a contender for the big ring having played in the almighty acc.

please cut the haughty stuff. every player that is beyond two could end up a bust or a winner. just there have been WAY tooooo many successes from the “inferior” international scene to discount that style of play or to play that angle. sorry, just a real dated realm of thought. you can start by watching tonight’s nba game that shows off several pretty good to great players that never sniffed the great u s of a ncaa college ball and some that even came out in their teens without passing go in a college uni.

as far as the guys you mention they played against a team made up of freshman or do you forget that oden and conley werent seasoned vets but just high schoolers the year before. it was a laughable mismatch, it was a HUGE mismatch. college is a different game with very few teams staying together to have upper classmen of note or worth playing. the college game though fun and competitive is inferior a product to what it was just five years ago especially ten. it is an illusion that you are perpetuating travis just an illusion of superiority, but if it floats your nationalistic pride or whatever, go ahead and stay there. that is what i saw with my own eyes and i continue to see many international players making a big difference in the nba.

By roan st

June 10, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

I keep listening to people brag about the florida players because of the NCAA championships. If winning the national championship gauranteed NBA success wouldn’t guys like mateen cleaves and steve alford have been stars? Florida assembled a great team but that doesn’t neccesarily translate to individual stardom for their players at the next level. I’m especially scared off by horford because he was handled pretty well by both oden and randolph morris last year. Neither he or Noah have a refined offensive game to speak of. I think brewer has the best chance to be a star of the three but we need another small forward like….well you know. And how is brandon wright going to play inside at the four in the NBA at 200 pounds and beching 185 two times? I could bench 185 more than twice as a freshman in high school!

At first I was skeptical of YI but as I look at our other choices I’m starting to warmup to this guy. I think we could maximize our draft by taking yi with the #3 and maybe law at #11 instead of going conley at #3 and best available at #11. Although I like conley I would hate to pass up YI and watch him turn out to be some version of dirk and/or kg. Maybe we could even work out some kind of trade with the #11 and secure a soild vet point. I wouldn’t get mad if we took conley at #3 but I want YI over horford, wright, or noah for sure.

By Bertie

June 10, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

I really do not like any of Sekou’s trades, if I have to pick one it would be #2 Camby but instead of drafting Hordfors and Law draft Conley with the #3 and the best defensive Center at #11, Noah if he slips, Tiago Splitter, Jason Smith or even reach for BC’s Sean Williams.

I like the nucleaus of the team and I would not trade JJ, Josh Smith, Childress or Marvin. Conley at #3 (unless Durant or Oden slip) is the best choice because his speed and skills complement well the 4 players mentioned above. Remember next year we will not not have a draft pick and this team should improve over the next 2 seasons. I definitely believe this team needs a new coach, his style does not fit with the set of skills of our core players.

By ray

June 10, 2007 9:42 PM | Link to this

Matt, as I said in my 10:25 post, your idea is off the chain. Probably helps more in the end than any I’ve seen. Especially with the idea of getting a 2nd rounder if the Sonics were to take Lue. Not only is a second-rounder giving us a chance to get a diamond in the rough, it also can provide insurance at some position. You never know what you can do with another pick in the bag. Gives you more leverage and guess what….we might even be able to use it to gain some other asset(s).

James Jones, I’m just giving you a hard time, man. Do I think some of your ideas are crazy? Yeah…but so are some of mine. I’ll quit picking at your grammar, it’s not like mine is flawless. Good to have you around anyway. Especially if you’re not into name calling at the drop of a hat. Holla at ya later.

Travis, quite honestly, I figure most international players are going to be more exposed to european competition, which we only get to see come Olympic time. So, unless you are one of the guys who watches overseas ball all the time (and I’m not one of them), you would probably have a hard time judging just what level of competition a guy like Yi has been exposed to. There will definitely be an adjustment to NBA life in general, not just the adjustment to NBA style ball. Most of these guys haven’t played against our American collegiate stars. But then again, last I looked our “best of the best” got schooled in the world championships, which was just shameful for me to watch.

Of course, the argument goes both ways. On the one hand, other countries have improved their confidence, skills, and pretty much everything about them on the court. On the other hand, what we put out there was arguably not the best group or product that we could have had out there. And that is a whole other BARREL of worms that I’d rather not open.

So, in judging a guy like Yi, it’s not so simple. I remember not thinking anything of Nowitzki or Yao (other than : DAMN, he’s tall!) early on. Some guys have forgotten about figures from the past like Drazen Petrovic. Or the lightning rod of a guard/forward that used to play for Golden State. Forgot his name, but he was fearless getting to the basket.

On the flip side of the coin, there’s Sarunas Jasikevicius. Didn’t he just destroy us in the world championships a couple years back? And now he is holding down second string on his current team. And they said he was probably the best guard in europe. Just goes to show that this is a gamble. Maybe he’s not on the right team or in the right situation. Maybe this is as good as he’ll get.

But Yi, he’s got a unique set of talents and height to go with them. I can see him and Smoove playing the forward positions. Potentially, they could really and truly create enough matchup problems to actually affect the way teams have to play us. The kind of problems that Smoove and Marvin don’t quite yet present. No, I’m not shoving Marvin aside in favor of an unknown. But if Yi fits better in said situation, what do you do, hmmm? I think the one major mistake is to draft Yi and then try to make him man the post just because he’s 7 feet tall.

And while drafting him doesn’t solve either issue of pg or low post tough guy, that’s what the other pick and/or free agency/ trade are for. Believe me, I have not forgotten the need for a pg to groom, and I still want one…bad. But ignoring a possible serious upgrade (if not an immediate one) is never good. We’ll see how it plays out. If he’s as good as advertised or even just close, he’s a good pick. I suppose the rest can be worked out in our second pick and any trade stuff we can come up with. Hey, the Blazers came away looking very pretty around this time last year. No reason why we shouldn’t. So let’s see what ya got, Billy.

By A-Ville Ranger

June 10, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

Ray I’ve tried to show how perceptions can get twisted when you look at something too long and a kind of mass prejudice takes hold.That’s why I posted Shelden’s stats when given starting minutes.It’s true that I wasn’t able to watch much of the Hawks season living here in NC.I don’t know what Shelden’s ceiling is,but I saw him average just under four blocks at Duke against the top college talent.The rebounding numbers are all star caliber already when measured by minutes played.We both would be happy if he has a good career as a Hawk.I think we’ll see real progress this season.

By ray

June 10, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

Hmmm. The more I read around, the more I see the possibility forming. I’m talking about Yi not actually becoming a Hawk at season’s start. I’m talking about him being bait. We talk about drafting the guy and having him play for the Hawks, but the other side of the coin is that billy could just decide to use him in a “draft him-trade him” situation with a team that truly covets him. And I’m not listening to Ainge, he’s full of it. I’ll bet he either wants Yi or wants to use him in the same way Billy might. Interesting to see where all of this goes. And still, we wait…

By doc

June 10, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

ray for obvious reasons the warriors in san fran are dying to get yi. we make a huge mistake if we dont get and keep him. it will be adding to bk’s legacy for overlooking the best next guy in the draft to get someone else, let’s see luol, deron and c p and roy. is that nauseating or what? the only pearl he has had is josh smith. the guys just after our draft have gone on to big stuff. if he lets this guy go it is just one last nail in our coffin as a franchise.

travis there are six international players playing on the roster of the spurs, five players that didnt play one minute in college. on the other side of the court there are four guys that never played in the ncaa and three are internatuional players. if your reasoning comes close to reality then where has been the reality of looking at great high schoolers, raving about them and seeing these kids go in the lottery and ultimately succeed. do you think international ball isnt superior to our high schoolers. i think most scouts can figure it out if you cant because they usually come through in international ball, maybe with more success.

By Matt

June 10, 2007 10:57 PM | Link to this

Freedom of speech has zippo, zero, nada to do with it. If you read your Constitution, you’d know the First Amendment only applies to government actions. The Hawks aren’t the government. They don’t have to give you freedom of speech, just like they don’t have to throw that draft party for fans.

Showing up with those t-shirts shows that you’re just a jackass who will criticize Knight NO MATTER WHAT. In other words, NO draft pick will satisfy you. If you do that, you’ll get rid of any pretense that you’re a real fan of the Hawks.

But hey - at least you’re admitting now that you have no class. That’s a step in the right direction.

By A-ville Ranger

June 10, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this

I don’t know how anybody can watch the Spurs and not learn something about winning NBA basketball.I read so much about style and how they play dirty.They’re beating the cavs because they play smarter,tougher team centric ball.Every NBA veteran you hear loves Spur ball.Why is that ? Because they’re not kids,they know what they’re seeing and what it takes to win at this level.The Spurs define team play better than any team I’ve ever seen.

By MJ3

June 10, 2007 11:05 PM | Link to this

Forget having no class. Clyde and his alter ego smartass don’t give a flying f**k about the Hawks or anyone else not named Clyde/smartass.

They want the Hawks to fail so they can sell their dumbass shirts. So yeah, you two can join Scott the Racist in sucking it.

By The Flash

June 10, 2007 11:09 PM | Link to this

Wilcox is not a guy for this team. He does not get “it”, and we already got one of those in Smooth. If someone is to be moved of value, it should be Smooth. Then, with the 11, I’d take a real power forward who gets it. I’ve mentioned two, Green and Big Baby.

Ridinour I like precisely because he very, very much gets “it.” By getting it, I mean he can look at the floor and understand an attack, where the openings will be if the ball moves to X, and then … . That’s what players of vision, as in the special type of intelligence that participates in ESP like fashion in the world of movement, do.

I believe the Hawks presently have some players who see things real, real well, none quite the genuis level, except perhaps Chill.

Green, Ridinour, are in the upper ranges, near or in the genius level. Both have certain physical shortcomings, so to speak, but upping the “getting it” quotient on this team will improve the won lost record as much as anything and certainly increase the entertainment level.

As for Davis, no I ain’t kidding and you remember where you heard it. If he is good enough to play and make a contribution, he would add immeasurably to the marketability of this team. Marketability means cash flow, which the Spirit badly, badly need. As the battle does not threaten to be over anytime in our lifetimes, I’m for bringing in the fans, giving them a show.

Look, if you don’t get Durrant or Oden, the rest is throwing darts. I go for some personality. Green will definitely do it on the floor, with his passing (if some fashion of the Princeton is installed, which it would have to be or you don’t pick him).

The guard you chose has to be one who can and will hurt you from the outside; he must get “it,” and he must be durable, be able to defend and get the ball.

If you move Smooth, I would expect you could get someone special, and maybe then some. Ridinour plus, the plus maybe being a 2 to take Davis or Dowdell, depending how you spend your 3 and 11.

This team needs to entertain, and needs a player or two who gives good interviews.

Doesn;t anybody like my boy Coppenwrath?

By Charles

June 10, 2007 11:10 PM | Link to this

St. Bernard, I read that rumor on hoopshype. Ainge was joking about the process, not Yi’s game. He was lamenting that it would have been nice to see him against real players, instead of a chair or a coach. He then JOKED that the chair played good defense a couple of times. The Celtics are very high on Yi and this was obviously just a joke. You made it sound like Ainge was bashing Yi’s game by saying the chair shut him down. Be careful what you read people! People will change words around in a quote to make their point sound better…

By doc

June 10, 2007 11:11 PM | Link to this

a’ville this is the way nba bball used to be played. not the star/isolation era that started with mj. there is no way that this team is boring, methodical, show surgical precision, yes but not boring. just the same the suns could have easily been here as well. four or five teams in the west could beat cleveland the way they have played the last two games.

By doc

June 10, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

flash, i think the spurs GET IT!

By Mike

June 10, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

Guys, it’s been a while. My therapy is going great; I’m only able to post every now and then.

I’m going to make point about the Draft. Absent a trade for a quality Big, Conley is the guy at #3. He is the real deal. I said guy I didn’t say kid, because he didn’t play like a kid in big game. He played big in big game. I realize some guys may have only seen Conley play in the NCAA tournament and that’s cool. But I watch him during the season and the NCAA tournament. Funny thing is I was watching the OU games to see if all the hype surrounding Oden was warranted. Problems is Oden would get in early foul trouble, and this point guard name Conley would take over the game and keep the team flowing until they could Oden back on the floor. He never missed a beat when Oden went out the game. If you seen the NCAA tourney then you seen him do the same. He’s cat quick, great penetrator and finshiser. Fearless, tenuous, aggressive, and good at finding the open man in traffic. He want help JJ and JSmoove, he’ll push’em.

Florida had Corey Brewer on him in the Championship game, yea he was affected by all of Brewer size and reach, but he never stop attacking the goal. Last but lease, any pg with a weak handle he can steal the ball with two dribble. Conley the best pick and Sekou know it.

If I’m right he should have know problem showing off his skills doing pre-draft workouts. Enough of this chatter about size. Everybody is looking at his size, but it’s the size of heart that matters. All I heard doing the season is we need a PG. Now that we got a chance to take the best PG in the draft everyone is getting cold feet.

By Professor K75

June 11, 2007 1:14 AM | Link to this

Thanks Sekou Smith for an interesting thread. I think that I’ve read every entry so far, and there are over 100! I agree with alot of the bloggers who say that the Hawks are not that far away as people think. They were in alot of games last year and just couldn’t close them out in the 4th quarter. I think the biggest hole in this team is the lack of depth, not the point guards. Lue is a very good guard to me, just not durable enough to play alot of minutes. Therefore if we get Speedy back healthy and they can split minutes along with AJ, maybe the position can be a productive one. Because depth was an issue with injuries and bench play, we could get away with drafting any position if it upgrades it. Also, if you guys remember what BK’s plan was when he traded for JJ, he wanted to have a tall team with interchangable guys who would create matchup problems for the other teams. With that in mind I think drafting Yi at 3 and Crit at 11 gives them just that. Remember, there won’t be alot of pressure for a PG to mature on the Hawks because of JJ. Having a 6’5 and a 6’8 player in the backcourt along with a 7’0 athletic player like Yi definately sounds interesting. If they develop Yi right, I don’t see why he can’t alternate the 3,4,or 5.

By smartguy

June 11, 2007 1:34 AM | Link to this

Yup, there are only two people on here who think Billy and Woody suck. Leave it to a lame-o corporate attorney to get ultra technical on a baskeyball blog. Freedom of speech is more than a right in the Constitution, it is also a concept widely accepted in our society to open communication, opinion, and expression. Apparently, the Hawks fall more on the side of a closed and non-negotiable organization that doesn’t care about public opinion or perception. Forget about shirts at a draft party, the GM is more like a turtle than a human and the ownership group is either nonresponsive or just plain incompetent.

I personally, have not even seen the shirts, nor will I attend the draft party. I also said that I disagreed with Clydes hope to tank a draft puck just to get Billy fired. I think Woody is far worse, and either way, players usually outlast coaches and front office personnel. In any case, I think we can all agree that T-shirts are the least of the Hawks problems.

As far as the draft, I think/hope Boston really wants the Chinaman, and that they might give their second rounder to move up. That may take a little pressure off with #3, but still allow us the big of our choice. I haven’t bothered to look at the interent clips of the kid, but he does look impressive in the small stuff I have seen on TV. But there was a 7’5” Russian a few years ago that looked awesome working out against air; for every Dirk, there’s two or three international busts. That being said, Danny ainge was definitely trying to downplay Yi’s workout, which is good, because Danny usually says the opposite of what he is really thinking.

I’m rooting for Billy, I just don’t see it happening. As for Woody, I’ll tell him, the Spirit, or anyone else who will listen just how bad of a cocah he is. If you can’t handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

By Clyde

June 11, 2007 1:56 AM | Link to this

Matt be care with your choice of words. Its cool on the net but face to face it might be some problems.

Class or no class I would not be on this blog almost everyday for the past 2 years if I didn’t care bout the Hawks. I’m a fan like everyone else but I choose to express my opinons about my team in a different way than others. Yea I got my t-shirts but one thing I don’t do is call someone out their name (expecially on some internet blog). So Matt why don’t you show some class and stop.

Now basketball. I was the first to say it and I’ll say it again. Conley at 3 and Noah at 11. Don’t make no trades and focus on developing the players we got.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By A-ville Ranger

June 11, 2007 2:30 AM | Link to this

I don’t want to get carried away here.I keep going back to video of Spencer Hawes.If you can watch Tim Duncan and understand why he’s called the big fundamental watch Hawes in action.His jump shot looks a lot like Dirk’s,not as long on range but very similar mechcanics.It’s the low post stuff where I see the Duncan similarities.Then there’s his passing the outlet is about as good as you’ll see.The only question I have is if he’s athletic enough to work his whole game in the NBA.If he had Duncan’s body he’d be all NBA for many years.I’d bet he’ll be a player, he’s just too skilled and smart to fail.What I’m trying to guess is if he’s a true star.

By doc

June 11, 2007 6:33 AM | Link to this

clyde, i am beggining to think that noah and most bigs that are worth their size could be gone by the time we get back to picking at 11. it is a fantasy to think that one can just pick two names out of the air and go on from there. that is what bk and all gm.s have to consider as they go to pick and especially bk this time around since the if the first isnt the most pressing need value wise (now that we have three points on the roster at the cost of money and the second round draft pick this year) then the second pick may be lost as well. are you willing to throw all the marbles behind conley if you cant get a real big to begin to play bal wiht the real big boys? no point, not even the great big o, oscar robertson in his hay day, no matter how good he is can get a team there without the big. NEVER in the history of the nba; it can happen the other way around, significant players can make it to the ring without the great point. for me conley is great, i would enjoy watching david vs. goliath each night and i wouldnt complain; unfortunately the curve to the playoffs and beyond will be longer without the big boy that i dont think we can get in free agency. that is the crux of it, my opinion.

now clyde, would you be willing to bet all the marbles on conley if there is a significant chance that the bigs will be gone by the second pick? that is bk’s and the broken spirit’s dilemna. as good as paul is he hasnt gotten his team into the playoffs and he has a big that plays d and is an eraser on the boards.

By Clyde

June 11, 2007 8:49 AM | Link to this

Doc yes I would take the risk. Noah or Hawes will be there at 11.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By doc

June 11, 2007 8:57 AM | Link to this

cool, glad you are that confident. quite a risk for a team without any significant size and the whipping boy when bigs are brought out. only one team was able to run away from it but couldnt in a seven game series with some deleterious help from stern, the suns. the warriors got a pass when a big flopped along with his team. it is going to be fun and ill try to find you in the morass of people on draft night.

By Big Daddy

June 11, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this

Fire Clyde!!!

By Bertie

June 11, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this

I still do not understand the trade with Dallas, a high 2nd rounder for AJ. How about trading Lue to LA for their 2nd rounder (48th). I like Lue but giving up the 34th for AJ was a dumb move, now we have a glut of veteran, injury prone, carrer backup point guards. The only one with any value in the trade market is Lue.

By Matt

June 11, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

Smartguy,

Freedom of speech is not a concept that’s widely accepted in our society outside the sphere of state action. Otherwise, people could not lose millions of dollars and lawsuits because someone doesn’t like what someone else said. But you’re right in thinking that as a general rule, people have every right to make fools of themselves.

Clyde,

No matter what, some people are going to be unhappy with who the Hawks draft. You’re the only one who has made it clear that there is NO pick that the Hawks can do that will change your mind. I never say things over the net that I wouldn’t say in person. Trust me, Clyde, I would have no problem meeting you face to face and telling you everything I’ve said to your face. If you want, I’ll post my email address here, you can get in touch with me, and I will.

Either way, you have the right to show up at the draft party with those shirts. Assuming the Spirit people don’t toss your butt out, which they would have every right to do, I’m guessing you won’t make many friends (and yes, that’s an understatemenet) by showing up to a big gathering of Hawks fans and calling for the heads of Knight and Woodson regardless of who they draft. But hey, if you want to show up and make a fool of yourself, who am I to stop you?

For me, I’ll be happy so long as the #3 isn’t spent on Horford or Wright.

By doc

June 11, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

bertie, that is the point. tooooo many things about this franchise comes out of left field. we flat out had a failure last year from the post season on. maybe it was bad luck, bad choice, lack of money but the grade for last year turned out to be f. speedy never showed up, solo may be a keeper but a project several years away, got to assume that rens was being saved for this year because he never played any games to have any impact. maybe he was giving it all in practice so he could get some game time and didnt have anything left.

the big failure and what leaves us all on the edge of our seats was sheldon, except for ten games of reasonable stats in mop up situations where the team was 2 and 8 performed without any enthusiasm, hustle or confidence. that is not what one expects from a five choice, four year college guy in the best conference in the u s of a. certainly no risk expected there … not. only a dookie in the tar heel state would try to misrepresent sheldon as someone to expect great things from based on his past performance in the nba.

then we went out and got a point guard that had been disposed of not once but twice by this franchise when the season was already dead for a 34 pick in a solid draft year. unfortunately, he is considered an up grade. record aside that is a BAD year. yeah bertie you get it.

by a stroke of luck the franchise still has some oxygen to breathe. in three weeks we will know the rest of the story.

By Matt

June 11, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this

I think we should get something more than the #48 pick in exchange for Lue. He might not be a full-time starter, but he brings too much to this team to warrant giving him away without something more.

By Professor K75

June 11, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

The Hawks have to draft Yi at 3. Even if they don’t want to keep him there are too many teams salavating for his services. Take Yi at 3 and listen to trade offers for him. See what helps out your team the most. If you can’t work out a trade, you still end up with a player that looks just as good as the rest of the prospects not named Oden and Durant.

By Matt

June 11, 2007 10:16 AM | Link to this

Doc,

Well said. I thought the acquisition of A.J. was the most questionable decision Knight has made. The only thing I can think is that Knight thought we could make a legit run at the playoffs this year (and next), and that A.J. has shown to be a great performer in clutch situations (remember that 40-point performance for the Pacers in ‘06?). But honestly, it did not seem likely that the Hawks would make the playoffs last year, so giving up our second round pick was a questionable call at best.

By mavid

June 11, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this

Matt,

What do you have against Horford? (He is athletic and big enough to play minutes at the 5 IMO).

My draft board for the #3 goes Yi, Horford, Conley (in that order)

By diehardhawkfan

June 11, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

To all of you Yi fans, my question is where do you put him…if he plays the 3, does he start over Josh Smith and Josh Childress…if he plays the 4 what about sheldon and zaza? We all know he’s too soft to play the 5. We all know he looks good on youtube playing against inferior competition, but what about against other comparable atheletes? And why is it necessary to go to a secret location for his workouts…why can’t he workout with the rest of the draft? Seems to me like his agents know that his stock will drop if he had to workout with the rest of the draft.

By mavid

June 11, 2007 11:03 AM | Link to this

I honestly think Yi can play half his minutes at the 5 and the other half at the 4 (he is in no way capable of playing the 3 in the NBA, not fast enough… that’s like Mehmet Okur, Bosh or Gasol playing the 3). Dude is a legit 7 footer who weighs at least 230-240. Plus he has the base to put more size on (he’s never been on a weight program… he’s 19-20ish… so I think he’ll get to 250-260 in the next few years).

Let’s see. He is taller and weighs more than Bosh and Gasol when they entered the league. He has a sweet shot. He is fast and athletic for a 7-footer (this is what will make him a good rebounder eventually). He seems to be able to get in the air to dunk with ease.

Yes, he is soft currently, but I think he compares well to Gasol and Bosh based on how they were when they entered the league.

Don’t forget, dude played the 5 against the likes of Dwight Howard in international competition and Dwight was quite impressed with him. Many other players have also been impressed by him (Noah being one).

He also weighs more and is taller than Noah, who many consider an NBA 5.

I definately would start him as a 5.

Starting Line-up:

Conley (if he falls to 11)/Critt/Law/Ridnour or Jack (depending on what we do with the 11 or trades) at pg.

JJ at sg

MW at sf

JS at pg

Yi at C (with shelly, zaza and solomon playing minutes here too).

And then we run more.

The big question is Yi’s interior D and rebounding, which I really don’t know much about, but I bet it’s similar to Gasol (but not up to the level of Bosh).

By doc

June 11, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this

die hard zaza is a five by woody’s standard. sheldon by woody’s standards doesnt play well enough to be in games at any position. yi is an upgrade over those two “fours” you speak of. yi gives this team more versatilty than any player in the draft except possibly conley, who would NOT then have a big to make him effective because he will not have an outside pull up yet to keep others honest to make him the player he is to become. for that reason get bigs now, paul in 2008.

remember the comparison to parker is that it has taken him 6 years to get to where he is, expect same learning curve for conley.

clyde, i will buy a get paul in 2008 from you when available. remember the idea i had earlier that you had better be on the train for yi and a web site to get official roll tide clyde t-shirts for the ten billion and gazillions china folk out there. i can be your marketing guy you just keep up with the slogans, might try a new one out as the old may have lost its impact.

By mavid

June 11, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

JS at pf, not pg

By GEORGE

June 11, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this

Hi

i am from Greece and a fan for 20 years. If Yi was from the states then he would be the No 1 selection by far. Our national team have faced China alot of times, i have see Yi and believe me it’s worth the risk. Remember he is a super star allready and he is dedicated to succeed. Yi is not a C,PF,SF, he just plays the BBall of the future, like Dirk, Gasol.

And don’t forget Hawk’s Fans will incresed by 1 billion.

By diehardhawkfan

June 11, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

You can’t overvalue a player because of their height…Dirk and Gasol are both 7’0” tall but you’re not putting them at center…Yao Ming is 7’6” but he was getting eaten alive in the 1st round by Boozer who is 7 or 8 inches shorter than him.

Let’s be honest with ourselves…Yi is a complete mystery. We would be laughed at by everyone from Jay Bilas to Charles Barkley if we add Yi to our current collection of forwards (Yi is NOT playing 5)…we have the WORST i mean WORST collection of NBA point guards in the NBA…that is the MAJOR reason why we’re LAST in scoring…getting bigger means NOTHING without offensive continuity and THAT was the hawks MAJOR problem this year.

I compare the Hawks to the Suns WITHOUT Nash. If you remember Nash got injured during the regular season, and the Suns suffered their worst loss of the season. The Suns like that Hawks have tremendous athletes, but without a penetrating attacking guard who will maximize the abilities of their athletes, they look lost and confused. We already have scorers in Marvin, JSmith, and JJ. JJ gives us 20-25 ppg. Marvin next year will be at around 18-20 ppg. JSmith will be at around 16-18. Childress, when healthy, will be at 13-15. Why do we need Yi? We need a PG. Plain and simple. It’s not rocket science. Get Conley…a Steve Nash type of point guard who’s jumper will improve. Magically, JSmith, Marvin, and JJ will have better scoring opportunities. We’re a 5 seed and probably the most exciting team in the East. The Highlight Factory will finally live up to its name.

By wtf

June 11, 2007 11:42 AM | Link to this

The Flash you would trade Josh Smith away just to have a chance at Green from G town? Wow. Is BK secretly logging on and making all these ridiculous suggestions? Diehard Ive asked that question about where would YI play a million times but I still havent got a scenario where I could see that it could actually work. How can people say we have enough money tied up in 3 aging, injury prone, back up pgs but are more than willing to take another fwd when we already have enough? This is not even baffling no more this is frustrating. I can see us passing on another good pg only to see him blow up somewhere else and BK making up some dumb reason as why we couldnt take him. As long as BK is here we will continue to be the laughing stock of the NBA. We have officially bcame the Clippers of the East. I dont even think im looking fwd to the draft right now knowing that BK just doesnt seem to get it.

By diehardhawkfan

June 11, 2007 11:46 AM | Link to this

it didnt take parker 6 years to develop…by his second year he was averaging 15 points per game.

By terrell barron

June 11, 2007 12:05 PM | Link to this

I just saw some trade scenarios. Nets get Villanueva, Bobby Simmons and 37th pick; Hawks get Randolph, Jack and 42nd pick; Bucks get R.Jefferson, 11th and 17th pick; Blazers get S.Claxton J.Childress and 6th pick. Next scenario: Hawks get Bynum and Jack; Portland gets Turiaf and 11th pick; LA gets 3rd pick and T.Lue. I Like both trades for Atlanta, that is if Randolph can straighten up. He gives us a low post threat. bynum gives us a young center that probably would have been a top 3 pick this year, had he went to college. What do yall think? HOLLA BACK

By Matt

June 11, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

Mavid,

I don’t have anything particularly against Horford, but I just don’t think he’d be a great choice for us. I don’t think that anyone with a standing reach less than 9 feet is likely to be a legit 5 in the NBA. Horford are both borderline there (both are at 8’11). I also just don’t think Horford will have a wildly successful NBA career. I think he’ll be solid - a slightly improved version of Joe Smith or Troy Murphy - but I don’t think he’ll be anything special, and thus don’t think he’ll good enough to warrant spending the 3rd overall pick on him.

I would rather see us take Yi at the 3 and trade him for Conley plus a vet, and then take Noah, Hawes, or Splitter at 11 then have us take Horford at 3 and get stuck having to get Law or Crittendon at 11,. I don’t think Law or Crittendon will be able to plug our PG hole (at least not this year). So a Horford/Law or Horford/Crit draft would, I think, leave us little better off than we were before the draft.

Another trade possibility that hasn’t been discussed is drafting Yi at 3 and shipping him along with Childress and one of our backup PGs to Memphis for Gasol (maybe plus a second rounder, which we then could spend on Jared Jeffries - watchem). Does anyone think Memphis would bite?

By hooligan

June 11, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Was that second scenario for real? We give up BOTH of our lottery picks, and all we get is an unproven backup center and a PG who hasn’t shown he can be a playmaker?

No way.

By mavid

June 11, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this

Die Hard,

Your points definately have merit. You can’t overvalue someone just because they are 7 feet. You are right that Dirk is a pure 4, not a 5. Someone like Andrea Bargnani is a 4 too (based on size and the way he plays).

But, Gasol is a 4/5 and has been used as such. So is Bosh. They both play minutes at both positions, but start at the 5 (in this day and age, traditional 4s are now 5s more and more often).

You have to watch how the players plays. In all of the clips I saw, Yi has been used as a 5 in China, and has played in the post more often than not. He is flat-out bigger than Bargnani and Dirk.

I think he falls more into the Gasol-Bosh comparison than the Dirk-Bargnani one (in contrast, Durant is along the lines of Dirk and Bargnani).

When Gasol came into the league, he was also viewed as a 3/4, but is definately a 4/5. I think Yi is similar.

Also, you have to remember that Yi has been used as a 5 on the Chinese international team. He has played against the likes of Howard, etc. If Okur, Gasol, Bosh, etc can play the 5, so can Yi.

By doc

June 11, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

die hard both his coach pops and parker would say he was not making or coming close to the decisons or playing at the level he is now even two years ago. in fact some of the early criticisms were would he be able to do what he has done if not then go wiht someone else. it was not an easy road and pops rode him relentlessly. it just wasnt as easy as folks think it is, nor appropriate to set those expectations on a teenager because he has a similar body type and possible skill set is the point made.

By Matt

June 11, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this

My last post was supposed to say “Horford and Noah are both borderline there…”

By Charles

June 11, 2007 12:36 PM | Link to this

Diehardhawkfan, Pau Gasol plays center half the time. Yi’s position right now is PF. He’s no Dirk and will not be shooting threes. Worrying about whether or not a guy will play the 4 or 5 is pointless. In today’s nba, they are virtually the same position. As long as you have a big that can score and a big that can defend, you have a frontcourt. All these semantics about whether or not he is a center is pointless. Yi at PF, Sheldon at center, with Solomon and Zaza off the bench.

By doc

June 11, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this

wtf, we dont have four talented forwards three maybe, none having the skills of yi and certainly even if they were they showed there werent enough if them as there was never a time last year when all four were healthy at the same time …. wtf?

terrell, i like two but not one, randolph is too expensive both financially and psychologically for this team to invest in him and for what you get. if i want an offfenesive minded four i go with yi and get the bucks that go along with him. west coast teams want yi real bad it seems. at least they can see the marketing and big time play potential he has, many here continue to not get it.

face it we dont get conley without somehow unloading one of our three points beforehand, that is where the congestion is on this roster not at forward.

By Charles

June 11, 2007 12:39 PM | Link to this

The reason we were last in scoring is because we have nobody in the front court with offensive game. When Zaza is your number 1 option in the paint, you have major problems.

Yi @ 3!!!!

By doc

June 11, 2007 12:47 PM | Link to this

what is duncan? some argue a four but he plays like a five when it comes to his numbers. it is all semantics and old school to worry along those lines. no shaq coming out soon get over it.

terrell, good point about giving up too much with both picks lost. we need to get a draft pick back somehow before two alternative flies. jack and bynum dont add up to what we can get at 3 and 11 this year. throw in a mid range pick and id consider.

By A Thinking Fan

June 11, 2007 12:58 PM | Link to this

DOC give them hell brotha!

By The Flash

June 11, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

wtf, not what I said.

What I said was, if you move anybody of value, it is Smooth. The reason for me is simple, he does not get “it” enough and therefore will hamper the progress and upsides of those who do.

Let me be clear. I would take Horford with the 3, and then a little with the 11. On the other hand, if you move Smooth, it would be for a point who can multitask, that is, who definitely gets “it” and can score the ball with confidence from the outside. That, the godd doctor has suggested (you think, I ain’t seen an old guy this excited since …(I can’t really go there)), Ridinour, whom I assume is not equal to Smooth, so therefore we should get something else, like a round 2 pick.

Now, if you add Ridinour as your point, then maybe you do not go small with the 11. And, maybe, though doubtful, see, for example draftexpress.com, Green is available, in which case you jump on him but only if you are going Princeton. If you are going Princeton, he’s your guy, “end of story!” See T Soprano.

If you go small with the 3, as many have suggested, and take Connelly, I still think you move Smooth, if you move anybody. For what becomes the question.

I think you need another shooter/ scorer on this team badly, and I am not sure that MW is that guy. Smooth gets his points more in transition, and when he makes good catches in or near the interior of defenses, not outside. MW, when he fully arrives, might be that other scorer but might also be fragile.

Another shooter/scorer is essential. Using this team’s collective basketball IQ is essential. Putting a team on the floor that entertains on the offensive end is essential. And, having some players who can give a voice and personality to this team is essential.

So, yeah, if you move Smooth, and you can, I would take Green at 11. What you do with the 2d rounder is up to you; maybe the kid from Boston College who can really score (if he is around), or Big Baby, or Dowdell (I do not know why this guy has fallen off the charts but he apparently has).

By diehardhawkfan

June 11, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

It does matter whether he’s a 4 or 5, right now we have no true 5, just a bunch of 3’s and 4’s…why add another one…and yeah we have 3 pg’s on our roster, but they’re all TRASH…Speedy is always injured, Lue is like a 6’0” shooting guard playing point, and AJ gives you nothing…if we draft Conley, Lue and/or AJ are both gone

the Hawks have two major issues, PG play and low post scoring…Yi is not a true low post scorer, he’s a tweener, he’ll play like Bargnani…nothing wrong with that but that’s not one of our biggest problems…could you imagine Yi and Zaza in the same lineup…oh my gosh talk about a trainwreck. Then imagine Lue as our starting PG…let’s just hand Phoenix the number 1 pick overall next year.

By mavid

June 11, 2007 1:08 PM | Link to this

I agree to a certain extent Matt, but think Horford is definately a more legit 5 prospect than Noah (Billy Donovan has said as much).

Also, on your trade, what if Yi ends up being better than Gasol? I think he has a legitimate chance because he is around the same size, but quicker and more athletic.

His rebounding and interior D are definately the question marks, but that is still the case for Gasol.

By terrell barron

June 11, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this

MATT, you might want to rethink that Splitter selection. I read that he was still under contract for one more year. I dont know if that would be good for the Hawks. DOC you make some good points. Speedy was thrown in to make the money work, but Randolph might be a locker room nightmare, especially if we struggle early in the season.

By diehardhawkfan

June 11, 2007 1:17 PM | Link to this

I love it The Flash…get rid of your second best player who has Shawn Marion like ability and replace him with Jeff Green.

then we pick up someone else’s leftovers in ridenor..it’s obvious that Seattle doesnt want him…but hey he is an upgrade to what we have here.

So starting next year would be Ridenor, JJ, Horford, Jeff green and Zaza.

By edgar

June 11, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

From Sports Guy’s chat session: a scenario that would makes sense for Phoenix is Marion for JChill, Marvin and the 11.

I like the idea of aquiring Marion, but I think Marvin and JJ are the only two guys we should do our best not to trade unless we absolutely have to.

I also like the idea of Marion and Chills on the same team. We could call them “team goofy shot.”

By mavid

June 11, 2007 1:25 PM | Link to this

Flash, please say you did not just advocate trading Smoove for Ridnour and a 2nd round pick.

Talk about undervaluing our assets…

Did not Sekou just put a rant in a blog about trading Smoove being the stupidest thing we can do (which I agree with)? And you wanna do it for THAT package (when we could get a truly elite player by trading Smoove… which I still think we shouldnt do)?

Wow, just wow.

By pac

June 11, 2007 1:29 PM | Link to this

Bill Simmons mentioned Marion for No. 11 pick, Josh Childress and Marvin Williams on his chat today.

Do that, take Conley at 3 and you have:

Conley JJ Matrix JSmith Zaza/Solomon

Two all stars, a team that runs all over the place (if Woody let’s them), plays solid D and does serious damage in the East.

By Clyde

June 11, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

Horford is another Alan Henderson. Stick with Conley.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By HB Ando

June 11, 2007 1:46 PM | Link to this

I can’t find the time to wade my way through this many posts, so if this has been said, sorry:

If there is any reason to believe that Seattle would be seriously interested in Yi over Durant, then just trade them #3 and their choice of Marvin or Chills (or anybody else but Johnson or Josh).

But that’s nonsense that they’d pass on Durant. They know his value around the league. If they would seriously consider moving that pick, they should put a package together, built around a sign-and-trade of Lewis, to go after KG.

I just have such a ominously foreboding sense of dread regarding how badly Billy will under utilize his assets during this draft. He’ll probably draft Wright and Crittenton and tell us to be patient for another 3 years.

It’s just sick that this man continues to be in charge of the home team. I can’t stand it……..

By terrell barron

June 11, 2007 1:48 PM | Link to this

DIEHARDHAWKSFAN, if that is our starting lineup next year I’m finding another team to root for. BOTTOMLINE

By mavid

June 11, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Ando, I think at this point there is no way BK can draft Wright ahead of Yi and Horford. And if he doesnt favor those players, he should trade the pick before selecting Wright.

He has to be smart enough to know that drafting Wright basically amounts to firing himself.

But really, who knows what he is capable of…

What are your thoughts on Yi?

By mike

June 11, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Yi will be like the rest of tweener 7 footers, easy to guard in the playoff because they stand physical play in the post. Bargani is no different. Take Christ Bosh from Toronto and they’ll treat Bargani just like they do Dirk.

And please stop mentioning Gasol, he gets dunk on about is much as ZaZa. When Roy Hiebbert withdrew his name from the draft, we lost our Big.

diehardhawkfan is right. We need a PG that raises the level of play of the whole team. That guy is Conley. Everyone around league says the Hawks have one of the best young talented athletic teams in the NBA. We don’t need waste the third pick on someone whose maybe score 7 or 8 more than Zaza and get dunk on every game.

Conley is the perfect fit for the Hawks. Than you gotta take Hawes at #11, or pick-up a Big in FA. Conely and Hawes fills needs. Yi fills hopes. Everyone thinks Conley can’t shoot, but if you look at his jump shoot it’s fundamentally sound. I’ve seen him make shoots when he had too.

I willing to bet Conley can sellout Phillips easier than Yi, because with Conley your watching the whole team flying around getting involved in the game, not one player that hope turns out to be the team savior.

BK has gambled on PF’s and SF’s and everyone of Blogger said he should be fired. Funny now everyone wants to turn around and do the same thing again.

Clyde start pressing up the FIRE BLOGGERS SHIRTS

By honest_abe

June 11, 2007 2:04 PM | Link to this

i read on insidehoops how a nba big man coach compared noah to mark madsen.. i couldn’t help thinking to myself… EXACTLY!

By terrell barron

June 11, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

Hey PAC, with that team you dont need a big in the middle. Well ,maybe in certain situations on the defensive end. We would be giving up a hell of a lot though considering we drafted Marvin at 2 and J’Chill at 6. We would also need a new coach to play an up tempo style, that Marion excels at.

By Charles

June 11, 2007 2:10 PM | Link to this

DieHard, Stop making up stuff. Yi is not a Dirk/Bargnani type of player. Go watch his highlights. He is a low post scorer that can create things from the perimeter by DRIVING not shooting. He has a MID-RANGE jumper. He is a Gasol/Bosh type, just what the Hawks need.

By Neil

June 11, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this

How about drafting Conley at #3 then take the best big available at #11 then we pick up Darko in FA that would satisfy all our needs. Then if BK is feeling crazy or something he could pull off a trade and get rid of a pt guard and/or a forward (probably won’t happen but at least we can dream).

By diehardhawkfan

June 11, 2007 2:31 PM | Link to this

Charles I saw his highlights…I was amused by the Lion King “Circle of Life” soundtrack that was playing in the background. Yi in ATL would be a trainwreck. Yi needs to be on a team that is already stacked so that they can let him sit on the bench and learn the speed on the NBA. In ATL it’s the complete opposite. Woody would throw him in the fire…then he would get benched by midseason just like he benched Sheldon.

The Hawks collectively have poor decision makers. They are great athletically but they have low basketball IQ’s…this is another reason you draft Conley, the smartest PG to come out of the draft since Paul.

By mavid

June 11, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this

exactly Charles.

If you watch Yi, you’ll see he plays more in the post a la Gasol or Bosh than Bargnani/Dirk.

And, while he can hit the 3, thats not the shot he looks for.

A 7-footer with that size, length, speed and athleticism should be able to rebound fine as well.

And, many are correct, we still need a defensive 5 to get in our center rotation. Maybe Shelly can be that. But we do need to look for options.

I’m all for taking Conley. We just either need to trade down from 3 or trade up from 11. No need to take him at 3 when GMs are falling in love with Yi, Horford and Wright.

I think whether he goes to us or another team, Yi gets drafted 3rd. We either take him, or some other team trades us for the pick and they take him.

By diehardhawkfan

June 11, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this

great post mike…funny, i watched about 15-20 buckeye games (they were always on ESPN) and I was more impressed with Conley than I was with Oden. The first thing I thought was wow he would make a great Hawk. I’ve never seen a freshman pg improve that much in one season…

And after watching Parker tear apart the Cavs D, now I’m even more on the Conley bandwagon.

By pac

June 11, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

terrell, BK gave up two 1st rounders (& Diaw) for JJ, don’t see why we wouldn’t for another all star in his prime. It gives us 2 legit scoring options and the PG motor to make it all go.

By SSI Fan

June 11, 2007 2:43 PM | Link to this

I continue to read the posts with interest. Don’t forget that the Hawks had the 4th worst record in the NBA, and they play in what Steven A. Smith described as the JV division of the NBA. There should be no players who are deemed unavailable for trade. I like JJ at guard. I like either Smith or Marvin at the small forward position, but I think one of those two should be traded because the best position for each of them is as the small forward. Josh Smith is not a power forward. Who can he post up on the inside? Who can he defend one on one in the low post? Hopefully something can be done in the draft and through trades to improve the point guard, power forward, and center positions.

My concern about taking Conley at 3 is that no big would be there at 11. I think Hawes and Noah are both gone and all that’s left is a bunch of 6’9” wingmen. The Hawks would then either draft another one of that type player or trade the pick for somebody’s backup center.

By The Flash

June 11, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this

die hard: Smooth is no Marion. Marion is off the charts in getting “it;” Smooth doesn’t know that there is a chart or has no use for it.

Now, unless you are deaf, I said I go Horford and then, with the 11, a point. If you pick Horford, and trade Smooth, which I would advocate, then I would pick a forward with the 11, and it would be Green, if he is around, which he won’t be because he is that goooood. However, if he is around, I take him and I get rid of Woody and Drew is my coach, and the Princeton is my offense.

Who you get for Smooth I leave to youz guys, but he ain’t playin for Larry in the Princeton, at least it would not be playing to his considerable strengths or to the team’s. Therefore I would move him.

I have not seen Ridenour play very much. I’m just reading his name all over this post, mostly from Doc. I think that he gets it and can shoot the ball. He has decent size and competes for the ball, and since he “gets it” he often comes up with the ball when it is available. I would be more than comfortable with him running with JJ in the backcourt.

Now if Ridenour and a two is too cheap; work out the details and bring me a better deal.

Yes, I would very much like to see a change in the offensive concepts here; been saying so for a long while; am a fan of the Princeton and have been an advocate for it here for a long, long time; and think that, if you go to Drew, which is the only logical choice if you remove Woody, unless this ownership thing is resolved, which it won’t be, then you have to be BRAIN DEAD not to take Green over Smooth, like 101 out of 100 times.

Yeap, I go for the Princeton (a very entertaining style of offense), pick Green (the best fulcrum for the Princeton in the history of the world), surround him with three shooters who get it, and a big who can receive and finish, and you got you a product you can sell.

What you got?

By terrell barron

June 11, 2007 3:11 PM | Link to this

Trade the pick for a backup center, you must be kidding. The Hawks have cap room people. You cant trade away your draft picks in one of the deepest drafts in years. Were you serious SSI FAN? In my opinion, this team is still a couple of years away from contending in the playoffs. We can get two more young players to go with what we got. You never know, we might find two all-stars, I doubt it but you never know. Conventional centers are no longer the focal point of a team. JUST MY OPINION

By Harry Hawk

June 11, 2007 3:26 PM | Link to this

The fact is that in all of the clips you’ll see of Yi, he’s practicing in a gym, playing against inferior competition in China OR against national teams with NBA guys who would probably rather be at home and getting some rest. Yi certainly has some skills, but I can’t see the Hawks drafting this guy and expecting him to come in and help the team win right away. The Hawks are not in a position with us (dammit) to keep drafting projects (Yi and Wright, in particular) and making us (dammit) pay the price for cheering for a team that doesn’t give a damn about winning anytime soon. Would I rather the Hawks win world championships and have a dynasty when they finally start to make postseasons again? Of course. Is that likely to happen? No. I just want to win. The Hawks have an opportunity to do that because “this is the best draft in years”. That’s all I kept hearing throughout the season. We’ve got 2 of the first 11 freaking picks. If we can’t take advantage of that and maximize the ceiling of this team and shore up the foundation, I’ll start printing some T-shirts up of my own.

By SSI Fan

June 11, 2007 3:34 PM | Link to this

I was being facetious about the trade of the 11 pick for a second string center, but who would fill a need of the Hawks if both Noah and Hawes are gone.

The reason conventional centers are no longer the focal point of a team is because not many teams have one. But every team wants one. Oden is the consensus #1 pick because he is a talented conventional center who can help a team win. You can’t be a consistent winner in the NBA relying on the jump shot.

By diehardhawkfan

June 11, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Flash, Shawn Marion is 28, JSmith is 21…and if you check their numbers you’ll see that they have similar production…not to mention Marion has the luxary of playing with one of the top 10 PG’s EVER who puts him in optimal situations during games…Let’s see how Marion would fare in Atlanta with Tyronn Lue playing point…and if Marion was so great why is Phoenix trying to get rid of him…I’ll tell you why, for what Marion is getting paid for you’re not getting the right value…Phoenix could get a similar player in Josh Smith with a salary that’s 10 million less.

And Horford had 3 would be a terrible pick. I’m a duke grad…I’ve seen alot of Sheldon Williams when he’s a duke, and trust me, Horford is not an upgrade over williams. Williams is a better low post defender, a better shot blocker, and a better low post scorer. Horford is a little more athletic with a better outside shot…put at best you’re getting a 14 point 10 rebound performer which is what you get out of sheldon. So Horford is definitely not worth a 3 pick…

And who wants to watch the Princeton offense…this is Atlanta…are you serious…we have a hard enough time getting the fanbase to come to the games…imagine if we put in the Princeton crap, just get a up-tempo pg like conley and an athletic big man like a Noah or Sean Williams and just run and gun.

By Matt

June 11, 2007 3:45 PM | Link to this

Terrell,

I don’t think he was adovcating trading the #11 for a backup center. I think he was saying that the Hawks’ options with that pick would be to either take a swingman or else trade it - and if we trade it, we wouldn’t be able to get anything better than someone’s backup center. I disagree with both assessments, but that’s what I think he was saying.

Since I doubt Billy is going to make the Ridnour trade that I ‘proposed’, we have to use the draft to get what we need. On that front, I think that the ideal draft for us is one that nets us both Conley and Hawes. I think that is possible if Billy is willing to do some wheeling and dealing. I think that we can swap picks with either Boston (assuming Ainge is bluffing about not liking Yi) or Milwaukee, and draft Conley with their pick.

How’s this for a trade proposal

Hawks get:

Celtics get:

Bobcats get:

Josh Childress (Additional player from Boston?)

I think this trade would be outstanding for the Hawks. It would allow us to get the best PG in the draft AND the best C this side of Oden (I think that Horford and Noah are both borderline in terms of being able to play an NBA 5). Boston would get the most prized international player to enter the draft in several years, and Charlotte would get a guy to ease the loss of the departing Wallace.

Thoughts?

By Melvin

June 11, 2007 3:48 PM | Link to this

Flash, you want to trade Jsmoove for Luke Ridenour and 2nd and then draft Horford and Green. are you kidding me? those four players together wouldn’t replace Smoove production. why are you willing to give up on a guy who can stuff the stat sheet with some of the game best players? this kid is on the brink of being an all star (if not superstar). remember this guy is 21, entering his 4th yr in the league, plays for a coach who does know how to utilize his skills, with pg’s that doesn’t compliment his skills and he still put up good numbers. why do you think an avg pg, two rookies(horford and green) with no defined postion(and I like Green alot) and a 2nd round pick would improve our team better than have JSmoove?
As for the draft, we were lucky to get two picks in one of the deepest drafts. i don’t see the logic in trading these picks for overpaid or other teams backup players. Draft Yi #3. Try to trade up from #11 to pick Conley or draft either Critt or Law at #11. Sign FA Jamal Maglorie, Marquis Daniels and/or Darko… Try to trade Lue or AJ to see Seattle for Ridenour. Maybe Seattle would go for it as they are trying to cut payroll.

By Crazy...

June 11, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

Good comment Harry Hawk, way to not give an opinion. Who is out there in the draft that will get us to the playoffs next year…No point guard is in the draft that will come right in. Sorry Conley will take a year or 3. Even CP3 has not been to the playoffs, so do not say his name. Williams rode the bench last year in utah. Parker took a couple of years with the Spurs before he become the leader he is now. Even Durant is going to take awhile. No muscle on the guy. This isn’t the big 12. Yi is a long shot, but with him comes tv coverage. What big free agent wants to come here and never be seen??? This franchise needs money so we can spend money.

By doc

June 11, 2007 4:25 PM | Link to this

harry hawk, i guess you misssed the stuff on gasol like he wasnt there. that is one of the “facts” you overlooked dude.

By Crazy...

June 11, 2007 4:37 PM | Link to this

Matt…

You do know that the Celtics are also looking for a point guard after the Telfair debacle. Why would they trade that away?

We are still a ways away from this “rebuilding” being finished. The sad thing is JJ’s contract will be up around the time this is truely finished. When do we look at getting a solid 2 to back him up. None of our swingmen seem to be able to truely play this position. When he was not on the floor…everyone was lost. And our season went in toilet when he was completely out for the season.

By Harry Hawk

June 11, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

Crazy…, is there a law that I have to give my “in-depth plan” for the Hawks to achieve success? I don’t believe there is. In any event, all of us have thrown out scenarios that try to provide the Hawks with two things: A PG and a big man (preferably one who is a 4/5 combo and can run). Most of us agree that the Hawks won’t be able to sign a Billups or a Mo Williams without vastly overpaying in money and in pieces through a sign-and-trade. Jamaal Magloire doesn’t exactly inspire much confidence, Zach Randolph would be a headcase if he gets traded to another losing team, the Lakers will hold on to Bynum, etc. However, most of us would agree that the Hawks will need to trade a forward (most likely Chills or Marvin) and one of the PGs (most likely Lue, possibly AJ…although most of us would rather it be Speedy) and the 11th pick in order to get one of those sorely-needed pieces. You can’t rely on the draft to provide two rookie starters. It’s going to be tough for Billy Knight to make a big move for a veteran guy who will clearly raise the level of this team, but the onus is on him to do so. If he’s got one really good trade in him, it has to be made this offseason. Sorry if I’m not offering anything new or different, but that’s the way it goes when people blog so many draft/trade scenarios.

Anyway, back to the draft, I certainly understand why you’re advocating drafting Yi, but you’re advocating it more from a financial standpoint than a basketball standpoint. If the Hawks cared about finances, they wouldn’t have traded an arm and a leg for Joe Johnson. They would have made a huge move for a guaranteed draw.

That might change this year, of course. Marvin Williams isn’t exactly the marketing piece Hawks fans were reading about before and after the 2005 draft. Shelden Williams, talent level aside, has a face made for telegraph, much less radio. If Atlanta Spirit decides that they need to start trying to make some money off this team (well, before Belkin gets it, that is), I’m sure that they realize that Yi has “tremendous global marketing upside” (I hope Bilas uses that come draft night) and could greatly increase the financial standing and consumer awareness of the franchise. I personally would much rather see the Hawks on TV just because they have a good team than because they have some tall and talented Chinese guy with a billion fans. Whatever happens, I’m sure we’ll all be ready to spew obscenities and/or breathe huge sighs of relief on June 28th.

By bosywan

June 11, 2007 5:01 PM | Link to this

diehardhawkfan,

i like what youŽre saying. we need to draft conley, he will make our team so much better. he can pressure the ball on d and will get all our athletic guys to run fastbreaks all day long. i also like the thought of pickung up sean williams from BC. havnt really seen him play, but what i read, heŽs exactly the kind of big man the team needs. superathletic, rebounder and shotblocker, just read how highly he was considered before getting kicked of the team. maybe we should gamble with picking him, but not with an #11 as heŽs not seen to go anywhere before #20. damn, i would even take him with the #11, but we could try to pick up some depth by trading the #11 down.

only thing we need after conley at #3 is a defensive minded player, big or small (brewer unfortunately wont be there at #11). just play defense and run. and if we get slowed down to a half-court set, let conely break it down or run plays for jj. simple, but guarantees the playoffs in the crappy east.

am i the only one who thinks the hawks should upgrade their offense by comitting to defense?!?

bring in some basketball iq, not only hops!

By tb

June 11, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

I’m thinking that Yi is the only pick at #3.

I have a feeling/theory that one of the following All-Star potential type players is going to slide to # 11; Conley/Hawes/Brewer

If I have a choice between one of these players and Law or Crit, I go potential and grab the slider.

Speedy/Lue/AJ can hold down the point if injuries arn’t too big a concern.

There are FA and trade solutions.

You put Yi and one of the three and the trade possibilities become endless.

You don’t think Hawes or Brewer will get you Ridnour? I do. Conley would be easy at #11, no way at #3.

Draft:

Yi/Slider

Trade:

Lue/Salim/Lo for late first or early second rounder (Sean Williams)

Ridnour/Speedy/AJ

JJ/Chil

Smoove/Marvin

Yi/Shelden

Zaza/Sean Williams/Jones

We could still go after a MLE type C if needed.

By The Flash

June 11, 2007 5:03 PM | Link to this

Die Hard: You are pretty solid in your concepts.

You have seen Smooth way more than I have. From what I have seen, he is no Marion, who I think sees the floor and reacts to opportunities before they actually “open” as well or better as anyone I’ve seen. Amazingly quick off his feet and versatile.

Why is Phoenix looking to unload him. Don’t know, but Smooth does not shoot the ball as well, see the court anywhere near as well, or defend the ball as well as Marion, from what I’ve seen.

If you think that Smooth is still a work in progress as far as melding into the flow of the game, and will respond as the team’s offensive concepts improve (which in your view will happen with a point who can push it), then I see you view and cannot quarrel with it. His stats are impressive and he makes some plays at both ends that bring you out of your seat.

I do not see playing with Princeton concepts and playing a running game as inconsistent. Think the Kings in the Vlady/Webber days, and put Green in the Webber position. Green, unlike Webber, can really, really run, btw, and is at least Webber’s equal as a passer.

Your point about Horford and Sheldon, I’m not sure I agree with. Sheldon, whom I like, seems to me to be stiff in a way that Horford is not. On the other hand, I can’t say I definitely disagree with you here either.

Sheldon sees the post up opportunities; just needs to get the ball more in better time; he can and will score if he gets touches. The other things, boarding and defense, I agree with you; he gives it everything.

Seems to me that there is more than enough room for both of them on this team, and I can see Horford playing the 5 along with Sheldon at the 4.

If you really are that high on Conley, I hope you have factored in my concerns (1) with the potential for injury for a guy with his size and athletic style of play; (2) his ability to score the ball consistently from the outside; and (3) whether he will occupy the ball on the bounce more than this team, particularly, JJ, would like. If, considering those concerns, you still go for Conley, I don’t watch enough to say that I think you are wrong.

This concern about young (early out) speed points being injured to me is a real one: Livingston, Paul, Ford, come immediately to mind. This team must get another shooter; must.

No way you let Chill go. Next to JJ, you have to keep him, imo. The foot is a real concern though. If the foot is reasonably healthy, a big if, by the way, I think Chill is an invaluable asset who should not be moved under any scenario.

By bosywan

June 11, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

“The best shot blocker to come along in years”

http://nbadraft.net/admincp/profiles/seanwilliams.html

just brainwash this dude and heŽll be fine

(but still close to what a brandan wright might bring to the table)

By tb

June 11, 2007 5:12 PM | Link to this

Draft:

Yi

Trade:

Salim/Lue/Lo for 2007 late first or early second pick 5Sean Williams)

FA: We can still get a C up to about the MLE. (Haywood?)

Ridnour/Speedy/AJ

JJ/Chil

Smoove/Marvin

Yi/Shelden/Jones

Zaza/Haywood/Sean Williams

I don’t see this team missing the playoffs; I do see them getting better every year for a while

By doc

June 11, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

for those who buy into the conley is sooo much like parker and how good parker has always been since he came into the league your memory is short or knowledge is limited. jason kidd was wined and dined by the spurs organization four years ago trying to get kidd to come to san antoine. they even had duncan drive him around and show him the place. what was positive is it was not behind parker’s back as they told him up front whatthey were doing and why.

there is absolutely only one point who has been ready for big time out of college before he graduated, chris paul who i dont think conley is a resurrection of yet. the other miss by our organuzation in deron was a four year player and didnt start until his second year. it aint that simple, dont place those expectations on the kid if he is our guy either it will ruin him. get paul in 2008.

By diehardhawkfan

June 11, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

doc, thanks for making my point…the fact that they wined and dined a future first ballot hall of famer in kidd but still chose not to acquire him proves how much faith they had in tony parker (and as you can see, the spurs are fully reaping the benefits)…

Now being from duke and watching Paul dismantle my blue devils over and over, I can kind of quickly compare and contrast Paul and Conley. Keep in mind, Paul came out as a sophmore compared to Conley who only was a freshman so it’s kind of hard to compare…i’m just basing it on where how I see Conley developing. Paul is a relentless point guard who’s just tough as nails. He’s a pure scoring point guard…honestly, I think he has a chance to be one of the greatest scoring pg’s ever. His mentality is to score first, then setting up his teammates when the defense focuses on him. Conley on the other hand is a TRUE point guard…his number one priority is getting his teammates involved…he only chooses to score when all of his options has been exhausted. I’ve seen alot of college basketball, and I honestly believe that Conley had the highest basketball IQ I’ve ever seen as a freshman. He RARELY and I mean RARELY makes a mistake. He knows exactly what to do with the basketball and he’s always setting up his teammates in the best situation to score at all times. Even though Paul and Conley are both EXTREMELY quick and exceptional ball handlers, they’re both different types of point guards…Paul, Deron Williams, Conley, Parker, and Felton will be the top 5 pgs in the NBA over the next 5-8 years…I just hope the Hawks can draft this gem.

By diehardhawkfan

June 11, 2007 6:00 PM | Link to this

Flash, I agree with JSmoove definitely needs alot more work and needs more of an attitude adjustment (even though I can kind of see where he’s coming from)…but for what we’re paying him and the numbers that he’s putting up, he is easily one of the top 5 biggest bargains in the NBA…

And yes Marion is better than JSmoove, but it’s not THAT much better than him…Smoove doesnt have a good jump shot, Marion isn’t exactly Steve Kerr either. The only thing that Marion is significantly better than JSmoove is his experience…which is invaluable to itself, but not worth 10 million more…

And I guess we can disagree about Horford and Sheldon…Horford will be SOLID but definitely not worth a 3 and for what he’ll bring to the table is VERY similar to sheldon. So to me you’re basically drafting a Sheldon Williams clone. In my opinion there are only 3 impact players in the draft, meaning top 5 potential at their position…that’s Oden, Durant, and Conley (maybe Yi, not sure yet he’s still a mystery to me). The rest of the draft consists of players who will have solid careers (Brewer, Horford, Noah, Law, etc) and onto Conley…

I like how Conley took control the team while Oden was hurt and in foul trouble. But after hearing some Conley interviews, I’m really on the bandwagon. He was asked what he’s been doing over the last 6 weeks…he said he’s been working on his conditioning because he knows that he will be tested every night because of his lack of size (that’s why he tested as one of the top 5 athletes in the draft…he’s faster and stronger than what he was during the tournament)…he said he’ll be working on his jumpshot once he gets drafted…then he was asked, what type of tempo do you prefer, and he said yeah i prefer a more up-tempo style of play where I can utilize my speed in the open floor…that’s when I start envisioning a mike conley/josh smith alley-oop. Or a josh smith block, conley pushing it and a jj spot up three in the corner…

By doc

June 11, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

die hard dude hate to break it to you but it was the other way around, kidd turned them down.

By wtf

June 11, 2007 6:33 PM | Link to this

People im sorry but I just dont want YI. The guy is dominating the Chinese League. Im not impressed with his youtube clips. If he becomes great then I will eat crow but Im really lost on a lot of the logic on here. We have been crying for a good point guard for years and now that we have a chance to get the top one in the draft we are finding every way possible not to draft this kid. He might be better than CP he might not be as good as CP but im willing to take that chance. We have freaking Speedy Claxton as our starting pg people . Oden was basically our only hope to fix this terrible interior defense and since we cant get him we have to take our next biggest need which is pg. In the end i want this team to win and finally make good decisions but hey whatever take YI and whoever else since some are so convinced he will be great and get people in the stands.

By The Flash

June 11, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

diehard now I can see why you chose the name. If you are as high as you are on Conley and it is well thought out, which you are showing me that it is, than I say go for it. You’ve heard my reservations. Frankly, I did not find Ohio State that much fun to watch. Only games I watched were the Fla games and the GT game.

I am with you about Shelden. I have never been among those who blasted the pick, and think that he has much more to offer than his playing time suggests. I ain’t seen Horford that much either. But, of the guys on Florida, he was to me the second most impressive as a potential pro; Brewer being the first. I think that he is quicker and more fluid and imaginative than Shelden.

However, I do not argue with your conclusion that he and Shelden are sufficiently close that it makes more sense to go for the star-potential point, which is what you see in Conley.

So, we do not disagree here either.

Now, the Smooth bit, I have trouble seeing him as a three, but, like I said, I ain’t seen that much of him. If Woody stays, there’s gonna be trouble. If Woody goes, Smooth will have the opportunity to grow, and he needs to if he is to be a keeper, imo. Since you think so too, we don’t disagree really on anything.

And that, diehard, is the closest thing to a complement I have thrown out here in a while.

By Professor K75

June 11, 2007 8:57 PM | Link to this

What about if we took Yi at 3 and traded the 11th pick and one of our forwards(who would be replaced by Yi) to move up a few spots and draft Conley. Maybe we could even get a later round pick in the deal. What do you guys think about that? Also, I hear all you guys saying Yi can’t play the 4 or 5. Who in the league is going to guard him at the 5? He will pull defenders away from the basket and create more scoring chances for everyone else. He will be a matchup problem, no doubt about it. After Oden, there is nobody in the top 11 picks who is going to clog up the middle anyway. And if we have so many so called scorers, why are we last in scoring? I think some of the players on this team is expendable. We can’t give all these young guys max contracts. Someone is going to leave like a Josh Smith and we wont get anything for him if we wait too long. I love Josh, but I dont think he’s a max contract player.