AJC > Sports > Hawks > Blog > Archives > 2007 > May > 04 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USDo you believe (in risky business)?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
The way the calls and emails came between late Thursday night and early this morning, you’d have thought a significant world event had taken place.
Communication like what I experienced should be reserved solely for momentous occasions like the end of the conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan or the birth of a child, not for the end of the Dallas Mavericks’ season. (And if you missed last night’s scintillating show, I hope you have TiVo or some other way of watching the action in its entirety, because it was truly must-see-TV if you’re a hoops fan at all.)
But in the twisted world I live in, where sports take precedent over most everything else, I probably shouldn’t be surprised. Still, it’s tough to keep things in perspective sometimes.
Nevertheless, this is a basketball forum first, so let’s stick to basketball today.
A few things crossed my mind as Stephen Jackson and the Warriors escorted the Mavericks from the playoff premises:
Would Hawks fans pile into Philips Arena the way that yellow-clad Warriors crowd packed into Oracle Arena to form the rowdiest scene of the season, regular or postseason?
Do you believe, like the slogan on those loud yellow T-shirts proclaimed, that the Hawks are in store for a similar watershed moment sometime soon? (And no, geniuses, I don’t mean the No. 8 seed knocking off the No. 1 seed, but simply a trip to the playoffs after nearly a decade of watching from afar.)
Are the Hawks brave enough to jumpstart the rebuilding process by taking a calculated risk to add the type of difference makers that can propel a team the way the Stephen Jackson did last night? It’s risky business, of course, but it comes with a huge reward if you’re able to cash in the way the Golden State GM Chris Mullin did, not only by adding Jackson and Al Harrington, but also Don Nelson.
Before anyone goes off the deep end saying that I think the Hawks should find a Stephen Jackson-type player (see: dude with immense talent but also a questionable off-the-court resume), calm down. Besides, the Hawks had Jackson and Harrington (not to mention Jason Terry) at different stages of their careers. So step back and forget about the specifics and analyze the question in general terms.
The Miami Heat took a short-term risk before the 2005-06 season and cashed in with a title, though it helps when Shaquille O’Neal and Dwyane Wade are already in the fold. Now they’re paying for it, with an aged team that has to be torn apart and rebuilt in time for the start of training camp. But the risk paid off with a handsome reward.
The Los Angeles Lakers tried it before the 2003-04 season, bringing in Karl Malone and Gary Payton for what most everyone agreed would be a certain title-winning run. That risk almost paid off, and probably would have were it not for Kobe Bryant’s legal issues, subsequent personal issues with Shaq, and a nasty outfit from Detroit that wasn’t interested in cooperating with the Lakers’ master plan. The Lakers are still paying for decisions made then.
Mullin’s magic act with the Warriors was done on a much smaller scale. But he accomplished his goal (delivering the Warriors from a league-worst 13-year playoff absence) by mixing risky business with a hint of serendipity (Nellie against his former team and the owners he’s still battling with over a reported $6.6 million in compensation?; the folks that write scripts for the Young and the Restless couldn’t have cooked up a better drama).
So I ask you again, is it worth the risk of blowing up whatever you think you’ve built to chase more instant gratification? After watching Thursday night’s action, I’m open to the possibilities.
.JPG)
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Comments
By John Chambers
May 4, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this
I have to admit the atmosphere was pretty intense in the Warriors triumph over the Mavs. You have to take risk in order to remain competitive. The so called “Character” label is only attached to certain players and one would have to question how minor incidences can de-value one “type” of player but be overlooked in another “type” of player. I think that Philips arena will have that type of atmosphere in the near future. It is only a matter of time, as our young players and coaches mature and as we add a couple of pieces. I just hope that the spirit organization doesn’t make any drastic changes and allow another coach to sail on the ship that the current coaching staff has been building over the last two/three seasons.
By infamouskrs
May 4, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this
BARON DAVIS put his STAMP on that series! great to see the guy getting the spotlight, again. as for Jackson…everybody knew he was capable of a game like that…just too bad for him that he carries so much baggage!
By infamouskrs
May 4, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this
18 days and counting….
“MAY 22 MADNESS”
(the day the ping-pong balls went crazy)
STAY TUNED!
By MannyT
May 4, 2007 4:03 PM | Link to this
We don’t need to nuke it, but a pipe bomb is appropriate. We have to have a strong defensive presence in the middle next season. If we cannot get it through the draft, BK needs to get it done via trade.
We may have to take on a longer contract. For example, Adonal (looks invisible in Golden State) Foyle could be had. They might even give us a draft pick to take him and his salary. They might take one of our expensive contracts (Speedy?)
By Orlando Rivera
May 4, 2007 4:22 PM | Link to this
First and foremost this franchise has already decided to take risks by overpaying backup point guards (Speedy) as if they’re starters. This franchise already has taken a risk by hiring a defensive minded coach for a team built for running (hmmmm, much like Golden State). This franchise already took a risk by giving away a top 3 pick in this year’s overrated draft to one of the best teams in the league. This franchise already took a risk by drafting yet another small forward instead of one of the league’s best point guards two years ago and an undersized PF in Shelden Williams a year later.
Get the picture?
Atlanta has taken numerous risks and they have all backfired! As a result of these “risks” Atlanta has a mismanaged roster and even if this team was injury free they are on the path to lotteryville for the next 5 years. Reason being is that the spirit will probably forget that Woodson is still coaching here long after his contract expires next year and will keep him around for status quo.
If Atlanta plans on taking risks, don’t do it in this draft. Whether Hawks fans want to believe it or not, outside of Greg Oden there is no one that can help this team overcome Woodson’s sorry coaching. Conley is overrated and this team is already young enough. It’s time to bring in some veterans who can at the very least fill in some spots at the 4 and the 1 (oh too late already did that).
The only move that would make sense at this point would be to fire Woodson and get someone who can actually take advantage of this teams talents the way Nellie does for Golden State. Yes I know they have a great PG in Baron Davis but I guarantee you that if Atlanta obtains someone who can create the run-and-gun style JJ would play that Baron Davis role for Atlanta. Meanwhile Josh Smith and Salim(perhaps the only good players Atlanta has drafted in the past 10 years) would finally thrive.
I’m sick of idiots running this franchise. As a Hawks fan growing up during the days of ‘Nique it hurt like h*ll to watch Golden State celebrate like that last night because I know that’s what Atlanta should be doing now. If they don’t bring in the right kind of coach it won’t matter if Oden, Duncan and Shaq came to this team.
By Ryder
May 4, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
Manny, instead of Foyle why not take on Kwame Brown from LA? Before you stone me, think about this for a sec. This guy would probably prosper being on a lower-rung team and without pressure. What’s more, his contract expires after next year and that’s $9 million off the books right there. If he screws up it can’t be any worse than where this team is now?
By Dee
May 4, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this
clippers in 06 warriors in 07 08 is our year
By Sekou K. Smith
May 4, 2007 4:48 PM | Link to this
Dee,
I almost forgot the Clippers until you mentioned them. That’s another great example of the high-risk, high-reward nature of the quick fix.
But you figure risks have to be made in order to chase the big prize (or in this case, the playoff prize).
Orlando Rivera makes great points, as well. Those risks have to be rectified by more risks. Teams can’t afford to stand still for too long. Not when everyone else is making moves to chase the prize.
By Clyde
May 4, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
Sekou face it. Chris Mullin got rid of his coach and brought in Don Nelson. Don Nelson changed the system they were running to get the most out of his players. We all know Golden State does not win this series with Mike Montgomery as coach.
This is what the Hawks need to do. They need to bring in a coach that can open things up for our players. Woody is a good coach but his system is geared to a more physical half court style of play. What he doesn’t realize is he doesn’t have the personel to run it. Thus making him 100 games under .500 as a coach.
In summary WE NEED A NEW COACH
FIRE BILLY AND WOODY
By vdunkndunk
May 4, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this
Basically, it’s hard to analyze in general terms whether I’d want to risk some of our young guys for instant gratification, because sometimes it can be a good idea and sometimes can be a terrible idea. It just depends on what specific guys you’re talking about.
Scenario 1 - Giving Up a Ton for a Proven (But Aging) Star Like KG
For instance, would you give up, say, Marvin, Josh Smith, and a pick for KG? On the plus side, at least in KG you know you have someone with immense talent who’s fun to watch and brings it every night, and it would be interesting to see how far KG and JJ could go together.
But that’s still giving up A LOT and we’d still have gaping holes at PG and C. Given that KG’s to be an elite player is probably closing fast now, I’d have to think hard about this.
If we lucked into Greg Oden, though, I think you could go into a win-now mode and feel very comfrotable. I thin, with Oden on board, you could feel comfortable offering Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, and the number 11 pick and crossing you’re fingers that that would be enough to get him. I think it would be worth it to see what Oden, KG, and JJ could do together.
Scenario 2 - Giving up a Lot for a Younger but Less Proven Borderline Star, Like Jermaine O’Neal or Pau Gasol
By this I mean going after lesser guys like Pau Gasol or Jermaine O’Neal. They’d help out, but I wouldn’t be willing to include Josh Smith in a deal for either guy.
But still, a deal like Marvin, Zaza, and the 11 pick for Jermaine O’Neal or Pau Gasol would give us a competitive, interesting team. I’m still not sure how far it would take us though, because we’d still have our familiar problems at PG…but we’d probably make the playoffs and maybe even win a round.
Scenario 3 - Character Risks & Vets Who Aren’t That Good
Then you have the guys like Ron Artest or Steven Jackson, guys with talent who wear out their welcome fairly quickly. After the JR Rider thing, I’m not really interested in this type of solution. And I’m not interested in going after guys like Shareef and Big Dog like the Hawks did in the past, either…because there’s no instant or longterm gratification involved in grabbing overrated, overpaid vets.
Summary:
Basically, I’d be willing to take a risk on KG, but probably wouldn’t be willing to give up enough to get him (because I’d want to hang on to Josh Smith). I’d probably also be willing to go after Pau Gasol or Jermaine O’Neal, but again only if Joe Johnson and Josh Smith aren’t involved in the deal. I’m not sure if we have enough to offer otherwise, but it would be worth looking into it. And then there’s the last category of character problems and overrated vets, and I’d still clear of those guys.
By Out of luck
May 4, 2007 5:35 PM | Link to this
Time to face the facts. If Atlanta had just done a mediocre job over the last 4 years in the draft, they could be in the Warrior’s shoes right now. Instead, they blew draft after draft and then overpaid free-agents on top of that. This team is going nowhere until ownership decides to hire a top GM and then REMOVE themselves from any and all decision making. We have seen the decisions that the Spirit group is capable of making and none lead to any sort of prize. If Belkin takes over we will lose the incompetent Spirit, BK, and Woodson. Assuming that Belkin has any basketball sense whatsoever, that could be the best court decision ever to affect the city of Atlanta. I for one am rooting for it as I have lost total hope with the current group.
By Kathy
May 4, 2007 5:36 PM | Link to this
We need to start all over again Package J. Smith & D. Stoumaire and our 1st round pick in a deal to Seattle for their 1st pick. Take Cory Brewer a tough defensive minded/hard working kid. Package J. Childress & S. Williams(to anyone)to get back into the 1st round to get Acie Law. Our 2nd round pick Ricahrd Roby. We build around JJ, Marvin.
By obet
May 4, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
there is no certainty that when you build something like an NBA team ,,put all these players that you think will win games and eventually progress …playoff or maybe win a championship…being lucky is one thing.. the hawks,,hopefully will gain chemistry with the help of a real point guard will take them further..the warriors…hmmm bandwagon…they are not complete either but they have good players,,to win against Dallas,,let s wait for the next round..
By MannyT
May 4, 2007 6:03 PM | Link to this
Ryder,
I am not a Kwame Brown fan at all. I don’t think he will add value here. I think Foyle fits better. He will do a better job on defense. We should attract a higher grade of free agent to play with Foyle because he doesn’t take up offensive touches. Also, the Lakers would want help for Kobe now which may cost more. Foyle could be a trade value bargain because he does not fit Nelson’s style and has a long contract.
By Samuel
May 4, 2007 6:49 PM | Link to this
I can’t see it here. We’re too hung up on “image”. Everytime a player like a Davis, a Jackson, an Iverson, a Wallace, an Artest or the like is mentioned, people always find some excuse why we don’t need them.
Blow up What!! Two players and a bunch of scubbs, Please. Basketball wise, we’re not even close to the Warriors. They have players who have proven themselves and then had the balls to go out and get a proven coach to run the show. We’re too hung up on image.
Please, let’s stop mentioning the Hawks in the same sentence as the Heat and the Lakers. These are winners who will do whatever it takes to win. Please, let’s stop it.
I believe people will support this team, they support the Falcons don’t they.
By Clyde
May 4, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this
FIRE BILLY AND WOODY
By Tyger
May 4, 2007 7:07 PM | Link to this
Hawks fans supported a playoff team for 6 consecutive seasons under Lenny Wilkens, the winningest coach in the NBA.
But for some reason or another, the past regime, Babcock/Kasten, sabatoged the franchise. Fired Wilkens, traded away Smitty and Mookie for JR Rider and Jim Jackson. And 10 years later, we’re scrambling to win 30 games after winning 50 per on the regular.
So, yes, historically Atliens have come strong when something worthwhile has been on the line.
Hawks have mostly 3 tool players vs. Warriors’ 5 toolers. 5 tool: Dribble Pass, Shoot, Rebound, Defend.
Not to digress, but passing on Brandon Roy/Rudy Gay wouldve been lampooned nationally by the press but they were the skilled 5-tool players at that 5 pick.
Shelden was the best BIG available but we passed over uber-talent for a yeoman, a big mistake.
Luckily, the season is over and the Hawks can regroup and correct some of these mistakes. I’ve bashed Speedy enough but something has to be done there.
That is the only legitimate critic of BK that holds water. Shelden will be OK and LoWright will show better with better players around him.
By Hawks Need Help
May 4, 2007 7:54 PM | Link to this
Baron Davis when healthy is a stud - Biedrens is not great but is a legitimate Center. Hawks have neither a point or a center. Plenty of young swingmen in the S Davis mode but missing everything else. If they don’t get Oden they need to consider blowing things up.
By Samuel
May 4, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this
Ando. Remember you’re Michael Vick statement and my comeback, Dirk statement. Right on target, wasn’t I
By SR
May 4, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this
Wow, just in time I as I was waiting to make a comment on this development. I am an Atlanta native who has lived in the San Francisco Bay Area for many, many years and witnessed the disaster that until recently was the Golden State Warriors. How bad are the Hawks?? So bad that the freakin’ Warriors of all teams have progressed more than they have. THE WARRIORS!!!! How pathetic is that.
Oh and I am sure the irony is not lost on some of you back home, e.g., two former Hawks who were run out of town by the idiots back there helping the Warriors reach their current heights.
Of course, how could Al Harrington and Jackson been good enough to play for a team that has Speedy Claxton, passed on Chris Paul and drafted Shelden Williams at #1. Also, do you think the Knight ever even picked up the phone when Baron Davis was available to inquire as to what it might take to get him to Atlanta?? Oh yeah, that’s right, he didn’t need a point guard, he already Tyron Lue and uhhh, Royal Ivey?
Lastly, the poster above has it correct, the Warriors canned their do-nothing coaches and brought in someone who knows the game and has had a solid track record for the most part. Anyone who watched this series saw how badly Nellie schooled Avery Johnson. Anyone out there think freakin Woodhead could do something like that? Anyone who doesn’t think a coaching change can sometimes produce real results hasn’t followed sports much over the years.
Bring in some talent and a real coach and maybe, just maybe this woeful franchise might oneday sniff the playoffs. As long as Knight and Woodson and current ownership are running the show however, the Hawks are the Warriors and Clippers of old. Oh the horror of it all.
By Wedgie Evans
May 4, 2007 8:21 PM | Link to this
Clyde and Orlando made the points I wanted to make. The Warriors wouldn’t have sniffed the playoffs if Mullin hadn’t hired Don Nelson. That was probably a risk in itself, but Nelson’s coaching style is perfect for a team like the Warriors which is full of offensive-minded athletes but not a lot of traditional post-up play. In fact, Nelson’s style would work quite well with the Hawks in my opinion. A starting five of Salim Stoudamire, Joe Johnson, Marvin Williams, Josh Smith and a more polished Solomon Jones, with a little more depth off the bench, would score a lot of points in Nellie’s system and would have probably made the playoffs in the Eastern Conference. BK tried the risk-taking path in the 2006 offseason, when he overpaid for quick fixes (Shelden Williams, Speedy Claxton, later Anthony Johnson) in the hope that the Hawks would make the playoffs this year. The difference is, Mullin’s risks all came with high potential rewards, whereas BK’s risks (Shelden Williams, Speedy Claxton, Anthony Johnson) had very little chance of making this a playoff team. It’s not enough to just say that Mullin took risks. He took smart risks that had a decent chance of paying off. That’s what the Hawks need to do if they want to be next year’s Golden State.
By Anakin Joe
May 4, 2007 8:22 PM | Link to this
Most got it right. It starts with an experienced and brilliant head coach who can teach players how to excel in an offensive system suited to their talents. Nellie has had success with a ton of different players. His style is proven to be successful in the regular season and in early playoff rounds. He has won with Chris Mullin and Stephen Jackson. With Dirk and Al. With Monta Elis and Mitch Richmond. He’s like Big Daddy Kane, “He Gets the Job Done”.
I’d love to see the Hawks do what the Thrashers AND the Warriors did, hire a proven winner at Head Coach. And until that happens (which may not be any later than next summer), n need to play “pretend we’re the Warriors”.
By hosemaze
May 4, 2007 8:31 PM | Link to this
Not getting third pick forget Oden/Durant. We have the scoring ability with JJ, Josh’s and Salim off the pine we need veteran in the middle trade ZaZa and Sheldon for Camby Denver’s about to release him for cap reasons; and take the more experienced pg in Law over Conley at 11 and fire Woodson nice guy, good teacher,poor coaching wrong style of play for young Hawks team we need Adleman for up tempo style of play. We are not Detroit.
By chris
May 4, 2007 8:43 PM | Link to this
the hawks better do something. this is an entertainment business and the hawks product is anything but entertaining. if billy knight used even a modicum of common sense, this team could be competitive. instead it’s just a f’ing BORE. deadly. if they gave an award for running a team in to the ground, he’s win in a landslide.
ps - and you gave the front office an incomplete on your year end report card….you should be ashamed of yourself sir.
By mavid
May 4, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this
Shooting and Strength
Besides coaching, this is what I took the most from the Warriors when it comes to our Hawks.
These are two things we lack that we need badly! A line-up of all 6’5 to 6’9 dudes can work if they are strong enough. We are not. ALL the GS dudes are strong. We have JJ and to some extent Smoove. Chill, Marvin, Zaza, Speedy, Lue, Salim, etc are all weak for their position.
Also, GS had sooo many guys who can hit the long-ball. Who do we have? JJ, lue, and salim, and salim can’t even get onto the court most of the time. But that’s it. We don’t have NEARLY enough shooters. Marvin could become one, but that remains to be seen.
These are two things we need BADLY. This is what i noticed most.
By ray
May 4, 2007 9:37 PM | Link to this
Could the Hawks make a splash like this? Yes. Any team could. With the right management, coach, and players. In so many ways, we are nothing like the Warriors. Or any other team for that matter.
Atlanta would pack the arena and make it look like Chicago during Michael’s days if there was a team that was worth watching that much. How many times have we been over this, though? How do you even speculate about it without analyzing and overanalyzing things?
Mullin was a player in Nelson’s system. He remembered the success they had. No , they didn’t win it all, but they were damn competitive nearly every night. And made the playoffs, too. So, he hired a guy whom he knew could get the job done. The rookie coach thing wasn’t working. Billy has tried the rookie coach thing. So far, it hasn’t worked. Time to pull the plug, but Billy isn’t that kind of guy and he probably won’t be making that decision anyway. The Spirit Group will. Something tells me Billy has a vision, a “create the world in my own image” concept. It ain’t workin’. Time to bite the bullet and seek out a coaching talent. A head coaching talent.
Next is the floor leader. There’s nothing wrong with it being a 2-guard (JJ), but you still need a point man who gets the ball into the hands of those who should have it in any given situation. And that guy also needs to be a threat that the defense can’t ignore. But he doesn’t have to be a star like Baron Davis. He does need to be able to put in a good number of minutes night in and night out.
Then there’s the post office. Look, one big that can be a tough guy really isn’t going to cut it. We need at least two. Defense needs options just like offense. If one weapon is out or down for some reason, you need to be able to turn to another.
But there’s nothing here that I’ve said that others haven’t said a million times. It’s the same old stuff. A coach who is not able to effectively guide his players, a team that has little or no chemistry, talent-but not in all the right places, a gm who makes questionable decisions, and an ownership group that appears confused and stingy. Someone has to get this ferry turned around. The real question is who and when?
By Don
May 4, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this
The only way the Hawks get out to the lottery is if Billy Knight is fired along with Mike Woodson. Billy was so smart that he gave away the draft pick from this year and it would be good. We are the laughing stock of the entire league, but the ownership seems to not be seeing the same thing everyone else sees.
By cowa
May 5, 2007 12:07 AM | Link to this
I definitely feel we need to go the route of the quick fix. But in doing so, it needs to be for at least a 4 year period of going for it. There are players we can acquire for the quick fix, and players that we acquire for a longer period.
Here is just one scenario that would get us on the short path to the playoffs (Assume we only have the #11 pick in the draft):
Goal: obtain a starting PG, C and a legit #2 scoring option (can be the PG or C, but doesn’t have to be), but do it all on the cheap (under the salary cap)
Move #1 - Trade Childress and Wright for Jarrett Jack and Joel Przybilla. I doubt Portland is going to land either Lewis or Wallace in free agency, so they will need to trade for a swing man. Salaries work, and Wright has an expiring contract. Portland moves Roy to PG, Aldridge moves to C and Childress becomes a starter for them.
Move #2 - In a three way trade, Atlanta trades Zaza & Marvin to Indiana and Lue to the Lakers; Lakers trade Lamar Odom to Atlanta and Kwame Brown to Indiana; and Indiana trades Jermaine O’Neal to the Lakers. The Lakers get O’Neal to team with Kobe, and Bynum steps up to starting C. Lue can play in the triangle, and will team with Farmar at PG with Smush gone. The Pacers get Brown (and his expiring contract), Zaza and Marvin for O’Neal. This gets them younger, as well as getting a possible star in Marvin. Doesn’t help out their guard situation, but maybe they can do something else as well. Atlanta gets Odom, the #2 scoring option and a very good strong forward with an immediate impact.
Your rotation would now be Przybilla, Odom, Smith, Johnson and Jack as your starters and Sheldon, Salim, Speedy, AJ and Solomon off the bench, plus whoever we take as the #11 pick in the draft.
This is just one scenario, but the key is getting a #2 scorer, as well a starting PG and C who play solid D. These two deals accomplish this, but you have to give up Marvin and Chills. In whatever scenario you come up with to jump start the franchise, your going to have to give up two of the three young forwards (Smith, Chills and Marvin). Otherwise, nothing will get you there immediately.
By scott
May 5, 2007 1:08 AM | Link to this
The hawks have made some terrible management decisions each off season in the draft as well as in free agency. Lets go back 2 years to the 05 draft, the Hawks needed a point guard badly. They could’ve selected Chris Paul or Derron Williams who both have turned out to to be great starting point guards for their teams. We chose Marvin Williams which wasn’t a bad pick but we didn’t need another forward on a team that is already full of forwards. In the 06 draft we make the same mistake again by drafting Sheldan Williams another forward, and to top that off we sign a bench player in Speedy Claxton. I hate to say this but its the truth, Speedy Claxton will never be nothing more than a bench player on anybodies team. What the hawks should do is trade there 1st round pick and include speedy claxton, and shelden williams as well as marvin williams for a veteran point guard. Or they could sign a all-star veteran point guarg such as Mike Bibby or Chancey Billups in this off season free agency. The Hawks also need a true big man.
By dtruth
May 5, 2007 9:03 AM | Link to this
The hawks should have made the playoffs this year. They have the talent here already here minus a serious point guard. Coaching style is their problem. This young athletic team should have been running and gunning using those young legs to gain thier advantage. Pressing defense and pushing the ball, taking advantage of their youth. Walking he ball up trying to run the old Piston offense is not thier strength. They need a new coach point blank.
By Peter
May 5, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this
I AGREE CUT WOODSON. GET A COACH WITH A DEFINED SYSTEM.
By smartguy
May 5, 2007 11:31 AM | Link to this
Right on Orlando and Clyde.
We must get rid of Woody.
What will it take Spirit? If a couple hundred of your best fans came to the arena to protest would you give a damn?
We are sick of this mess, and are doing everything we can to encourage a change. Please, Spirit. If not you, then please, Mr Belkin.
By Billy not Knight
May 5, 2007 12:30 PM | Link to this
Well said people. Get rid of Woody. If not, get rid of Spirit.
By J. Shuttlesworth
May 5, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this
If anything, that series showed the importance of coaching. How would GS have fared against Dallas if Woody was running the show? I need not say more, but I will.
Baron Davis, Al Harrington, Stephen Jackson have all spent time in the garbage heap. They have a $4mil PG (Jesikevichkasuses) and an $8mil PF (Foyle) who don’t even play. Matt Barnes has been dumped and passed around the league, and he was one of their key players.
Bottom line is Nellie took a mis-matched line-up and got the most out of every player and beat up on a better team.
By Matt
May 5, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this
Reading back here now, I’m quite glad that I don’t have time to post much anymore. Trade proposals are unworkable - ever heard of a salary cap? We’d need to give up a lot more in salary to get KG. And you honestly think Denver would be willing to give up Camby (much as I think he’s overrated, he DID just win DPOTY) for Zaza and Shelden?
And whoever says Atlanta fans will ever be as hardcore as Warriors fans are kidding themselves. Atlanta fans are far and away the worst in the country. Both times I went to a Hawks-Bulls playoff match at the Omni, there were more people cheering for the Bulls than the Hawks. And in ‘99 when we played the Knicks - same thing. And the Braves didn’t even sell out all their playoff games in years that they went to the World Series.
So don’t give me the “Atlanta fans will support a good Hawks team hardcore” line. It’s total BS. I’m just glad that Knight, Woodson, and the owners don’t pay attention to you guys. I think we’re headed in the right direction, I think we’ll make the playoffs next year, and I know that the people who run the Hawks have better things to do than listen to the complaints of a bunch of know-it-all fans who’ve never seen an NBA scouting report or been to a Hawks practice. I don’t criticize because I know they see those things and none of us do. It’s a shame most of y’all are too arrogant to do the same.
By J. Shuttlesworth
May 5, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this
From ajc’s Hawks homepage:
“Warriors ‘07 = Hawks ‘08? Golden State won only 34 games last year — two more than the Hawks this season. POLL”
Last I checked 34 minus 30 was 4, not 2. Did the ajc let the Hawks Hack publish the web headlines today?
By Loser Matt
May 5, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this
Matt- You need to lose the attitude because you don’t know JACK. I just love people that pop in here for an occasional post and act like they manage 4 professional teams in their spare time.
If you knew anything about Atlanta you would know that it is transient town. That’s why our sports venues always have a host of fans supporting the opposing teams. Every professional sports franchise owner in this town knew that before they bought the team(s). The Hawks will do well attendance wise if/when they start winning. Will they all be Hawks fans? No. The Braves stopped selling out playoff games because the October choke was becoming too apparent and the idiots that converted Olympic Stadium to Turner Field decided on almost 50,000 seats. Way too many for a baseball only stadium in Atlanta. If you look at the non-sellout attendances, you would see that they would be sellouts at the majority of stadiums.
By Mike
May 5, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this
It’s funny if GS doesn’t play Dallas, this blog wouldn’t even be happening. It was good to see the under dog win. It was great to see the response from the fans. Every year there’s a Cinderella story in the playoff. The GS story is no different. The Hawks are at the point where they will have to make some roster moves anyway, or end up losing some of these young’s guys with no compensation. If you know anything about Baron Davis, then you know BD came into the league a star. He was always one of the dominate PG’s in the game when he was healthy. It great to see him receive his just do.
Nelly has always run that same type of offense where ever he’s coached. He’s never won a championship, but he’s always made the playoff. One of the reasons the Nique and Steve Smith teams were broke up was because neither team could advance past the second round of the playoff. But the one constant with those team was veteran coaching. Before the Hawks start making whole changes with the roster, a coaching change should be considered first. If the Hawks address the 5 spot position this off season, then yea that could be the Hawks next season, especially in the East.
It’s a great story for players and fans of GS. That’s why the playoff is special. If you’ve been down to the Omni or Phillips to watch a playoff game, than you’re still a Hawks. I’m willing to give these young guys a chance to develop.
Last year it was the Clippers everyone was buzzing about. Now where are they? The Hawks are only to two legit players away from being a legit playoff team. They just need to take care business this off season and draft or trade for need. If they do, than yea I think the fan will come out in droves to support the team.
By doc
May 5, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this
matt atlanta fans are discerning with their discretionary income. too many things to do to watch the inevitable. as far as the fans, they would go crazy just like they did for the thrashers when they were in the playoffs this year. they proved the insanity just three weeks ago as folks showed up 30 to 45 minutes before the game and made the place blue. the team just didnt show up with the same relish as the fans. i have been around here a long time and have seen some insanity when it comes to support, most recently with the tomahawks which were ultimately thrown out when folks became more sensitve to other issues. ultinmately the fold was too great to support the team as one got the feel the team knew it would fold. too many transplants to have the same base to pull from as in boston, chicago or new york. it is similar to l.a. in that regard. other bigs like dallas and houston have a firmer less transient discriminating buyer base for its teams. actually the amount of diversity is what is making the city great from fan base to different cultures; it is kind of fun to sit behind a cubbie fan and watch them skirm as their team blows another one.
matt, for someone who speaks to “not judge” and to now badmouth what you know so little about, you seem to do it well pegging the whole of the blog the way you do. what got stuck, you know where? sooooo, do you really think woody would have gotten the warriors into the bigtime? gee that seems to be the same answer some of the other stupids like me on this blog were saying, too. join the stupidity.
what is really important is; how is father hood?
By majortee
May 5, 2007 6:57 PM | Link to this
the the hawk need to do is add size to the front court. sign j. smith to a long term contract and build around him and joe johnson. they have nice pieces already with m. williams and chills. a play making pg like say j. kidd or maybe marcus williams who is also with the nets,is what this team needs. but most importantly a defensive minded center that can block shots and rebound would i think put this team in a position to get in the playoffs in 08.
By Matt
May 5, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this
Fatherhood’s great, Doc. I never thought that waking up in the middle of the night could be so worth it.
By PMatlanta
May 6, 2007 7:18 AM | Link to this
Puh-leeze! Does this team even have an owner with authority? This franchise has done nothing since they gave away Nique!!! A laughing stock that for years was the only consistent winner in Atlanta. How sad
By A Thinking Fan
May 6, 2007 7:47 AM | Link to this
DOC The question to be answered: Can Phx & Nash do it?
By doc
May 6, 2007 8:43 AM | Link to this
matt, cherish those nights, it goes quickly.
atf, still think they needed to get a bruiser to help out when things get dirty; you know what my hopes are though. it would be great to see nash get his ring the year they gave his mvp award to someone else.
By jhan
May 6, 2007 10:30 AM | Link to this
Where is “hawks r cursed”? Please explain to us again how Houston has built their team the right way. How they are built for a championship and not an early playoff exit! They have an awesome coach in Van Gundy who won’t allow them to collapse in the playoffs.
By J-MAN
May 6, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this
Look, just throwing darts and hoping you get a bulls-eye is no way to run a franchise. Now if you would look at the roster you would see the main problem is REBOUNDING and our under sized big men and guys with no agressiveness just don’t cut it. I say other than J Smith, Joe Johnson, and mabye Marvin Williams we dont have any decent players that the resolve and the intangables to get the job done. Now what must be done is find guys through trade or free agency who have passon and drive to go after loose balls instead of guys who just let other players out work them for rebounds. And don’t put all your eggs in the lottery basket because we only have an 11.5% chance of getting Oden and we might have no picks if Indy does good enough in the lottery.
By A Thinking Fan
May 6, 2007 3:51 PM | Link to this
Doc SN is the real deal. This is the year he really should get it. SN is fundamentally sound, poor Americans can’t pass, shoot, or play defense..
By doc
May 6, 2007 5:31 PM | Link to this
yeah atf sn avg double double for the season, had his best season thus far and folks decided his reign must end. i’d just as soon he get his ring over mvp and i am sure he would agree, so here’s to the suns making it all the way unfortunately they are playing a team that can play big ball and grind it down to a halt without losing its stride in the spurs. funny, this year i think the championship game in the west is again being played in the semifinals like it was last year between the spurs and the mavs in spite of the leagues rule change to avoid it.
so, pistons-spurs in the finals?
am very surprised at the quick exit of the rockets. they have it all, a huge big, a star, a coach that has been there and a guy who does the steay dirty work. they may need to look to their hearts and realize they missed a golden oppportunity to go all the way now that the mavs are out of the way and they woukld have gone through the warriors to the finals.
final question will these warriors resemble the team form washington bullets team that made it to the finals in the early 70’s after a very mediocre regular season?
By doc
May 6, 2007 6:39 PM | Link to this
is tim duncan one of the most under rated or under appreciated stars in the nba at present. he comes up so hge in big games. he bounds, d’s and scores like no other big guy in the league right now. it is no mystery why his teams have ended up at the top over and over. he is the guy i answered when sekou said … ” who would you start your team with?” love nash and tough to see him left without a good cut man in his corner (there are some really good things they could have used if foresight given; even to finding the palstic surgeon courtside in seats to sew him up as it would have been possible) however, it is duncan who is yet to be unseated as the man who can do it all in the big time games he has to go through before he can lay claim to his grail.
By A Thinking Fan
May 6, 2007 7:03 PM | Link to this
Yeah DOC T.Dunkin’ is a BIG GAME player. He learned the game the right way. How many internationally trained ballplayers were on the court in the Suns/Spurs game? GREAT/GOOD SOLID Bball!
By jhan
May 6, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this
Fundamental PG vs fundamental C. Who is going to win out. What a great game today. Can’t wait for the rest.
By MALONE
May 6, 2007 8:30 PM | Link to this
If the Hawks had HALF the injury-games lost this year than they did, do they
a) win 5 more games?
b) win 10 more games?
c) win 15 more games and make the playoffs?
The injury factor can’t be ignored as as a chief reason for our disappointing win total.
By St. Bernard
May 6, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this
I understand that a big man is important, but looking at the teams that are still in the playoffs there is one undeniable thing. Each team has a legitimate point guard. They don’t each have a center.
By hooligan
May 6, 2007 9:25 PM | Link to this
Define “legitimate.” Unless you count LeBron as a PG (and he’s not - he’s an SF who brings the ball up the floor on a good number of their possessions), the Cavs don’t have anyone better than Tyronn.
Besides, the greatest team of the past 20 years (the 90’s Bulls) never had a solid PG. PG duties were shared between 2-3 guys. Neither did the Rockets in mid-90’s. Neither did the Lakers of 2000-2003. I could go on.
A great PG is nice, but it sure as hell ain’t essential.
By DJ
May 6, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this
Golden State has done in less than a year what the Hawks have been doing for the last three with former hawks players. Golden State has put a team together where all the players are around 6-7 to 6-10 with long arms that can play many positions and handle the ball. The only differance is the GM nad Coaching Staff with the personel decisions that have been made. The main ingediant is a reliable point guard.
By doc
May 6, 2007 11:03 PM | Link to this
st. b, last year, the two finalists did not have great or even good points. i dont think it is as much having a great point as it is having a team that can quickly move the ball to adapt to pressure to find the open man and to play very intense defense to get quick points or defend their own end. points are great however not essential.
parker is just coming into his own yet, he already has a ring or two.
chris paul as yet hasnt done it, call it due to injury but that didnt get in the way of the run to the playoffs that allowed the warriors to get there. it was there for the taking as his team was back to full steam only to never go on a run. they didnt do much better than the hawks as they had very few times of winning more than two or three in a row. that was in spite of having some fairly good players around him and a big that could pull down 12 to 18 bounds a game and defend well on the other end.
coaching and chemistry are a bit under rated. even with steve nash it has as much to do with the former as it does nash. i doubt he would say otherwise.
By Send Money
May 6, 2007 11:57 PM | Link to this
The things GS have on us are experience,Davis and maybe coaching.We’ve discussed the posiblity of going after Jarrett Jack,he’s a very similar player to Davis in size, energy and power.Davis is a vet and a much better shooter but Jack’s shot got better as the season went on.Acie Law is similar in size if not as strong,still he may be the best option available and not a bad one either.
By ray
May 7, 2007 12:00 AM | Link to this
Watching the playoffs has been fun. And what a welcome break from loserville basketball talk. Not much to talk about until the 22nd. In the meantime:
Will the Bulls wake up for the next game?
The best series right now: undoubtedly Suns vs. Spurs. I say the winner of that is the Western finalist. Just saying for the hell of it..
By smartguy
May 7, 2007 5:20 AM | Link to this
Heres my prediction: Spurs beat the Suns, but don’t match up well against Golden State, So I pick the Warriors to meet the Pistons in the finals. After watching the first games of the second round in the east, I am sure that the Pistons will cut right through the fat; shouldn’t take them but 8 or 9 more games.
FIRE THE SPIRIT! BRING ON BELKIN!
By doc
May 7, 2007 8:33 AM | Link to this
yeah smartguy, this warrior team might be the wesley unseld led washington bullets of the early seventies
By jhan
May 7, 2007 8:46 AM | Link to this
Warriors are a great story. I don’t believe Cinderella even gets a sniff of that prince or glass slipper.
I hope I’m wrong, cause I enjoy rooting for the underdog, but I believe they have already shot their proverbial “load” for this NBA season.
By MJ3
May 7, 2007 9:44 AM | Link to this
Can’t tell if my last one went through. I know everyone is in love with the Warriors, but I doubt they make it past the Jazz, much less the Spurs or Suns. Sloan won’t let them run his team off the floor.
And Smartguy, what the hell are you talking about saying that the Spurs don’t match up well?? The Warriors got KILLED by San Antonio the last few times they played (I think they lost by 40 points twice), though they did manage to pull out a home win against SA in the fall when Ginobli was hurt. If the Warriors want to play their kinda ball, they have to go small, and then have no answer for Duncan. And if they go big, they lose the fast-paced game that Nellie relied on.
Against the Suns…well, how do they out run-and-gun the best team in the league.
In any case, I say: Jazz in 5 Spurs in 6 Pistons in 5 Nets in 7
Spurs in 6 Pistons in 6
Spurs in 6
By mike
May 7, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this
The playoff is about match-ups, watching how the Houston, Utah series finished will be a reminder to all that get carried away with the run and gun style. GS will have some of the same problems matching up with Utah as Dallas had matching up with GS. GS will have fared far better with Houston. Jerry Sloan teams are like SA, They’ll stick to what they due and want deviate from it. I think this will be a seven game series. Either team can win.
Cleveland is a good team not a great team. They’re a good team that gets great fouls calls because of LB. Most of those guys would be average on other teams except Larry Hughes. As good as LB is you to hate to see him get those phantom calls by the refs to bail him and his teammates out. Going down the stretch of the NJ games there were some no foul calls on Cleveland that help determine the out come of that game. MJ played seven seasons and won a championship before he got his calls, LB should have to do the same thing. It will only make him a better player. I look for Jersey to steal the next game at Cleveland.
Even though Phoenix lost the first game, they continue to gain my respect as a team. They showed that they’re much improved on defense, and just as committed on the defensive end as they are on the offensive end. I hope the rest of the games are as good as game 1. I think the GS and Utah series will be the same. I hope GS don’t have a let down after knocking off the number one seed in the West.
Not much to say about Chicago and Detroit. The Bulls will fight hard, but the Pistons have too much firer power. Deng had a great game, but they’ll need production from Ben Wallace to have any chance of winning the series. I look for Ben Gordon to explode in either game two or three. Detroit takes it in 5 or 6.
It would be great to see a rematch of the SA and Detroit finals. I think Detroit wins this time. I had Dallas and Detroit in the finals. I was one of the so call experts that pick Dallas to win it all. I’m happy for GS, but I think SA comes out the West. I love the playoff and I just hope the games continue to live up to the hype. It’s exciting to see the young players step their game up in the playoff. Can’t wait to see my young Hawks get their chance.
By milledgeville dawg
May 7, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this
I’ve been a huge Hawks fan since I was a kid in the 80s. But if the Hawks bring back Woodson, I’m officially giving up on the team. When was the last time you saw the Hawks run a successful set play out of a timeout?