Hawks

By Dan

April 23, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

I watched the entire Dallas/Golden State game last night. I was thinking, if Golden State were to win this series, than Billy Knight’s theory would start to carry some weight. He always says that the NBA is heading in the direction of not having set poistions. That teams need guys who can play multiple positions and every player needs to be able to handle the ball. Golden State fits that outline to perfection.

They really have no center. They have a bunch of forwards and a PG. J-Rich (Go Spartans!!), Al, Barnes, Jackson can all play the 2 or 3. A couple of those guys (J-Rich, Al) can even be placed at the 4. Al even plays the 5! The team just runs up and down the floor and can do so with ease since every player is capable of handling the ball.

I think Golden State is what Billy Knight has been talking about. If the Warriors win this series and progress even further in the playoffs than Billy Knight’s gained a little bit more credibility. He just needs to get the Hawks to play like the Warriors played last night.

Also, hard to believe, after watching that game, that I watched the Hawks pound the Warriors in Philips this year. I don’t think the Hawks could beat Dallas on their best day with Dallas having their worst day. Weird how that works….

By St. Bernard

April 23, 2007 9:41 AM | Link to this

You’re forgetting that the coach is locked in a halfcourt offense and we don’t have a pg. But, there’s no way GS wins the series.

By Anakin Joe

April 23, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

Dan, but that style has not yet worked in the Eastern Conference. Personally, I think that Zaza could become sufficient to become at least a consistent playoff team. But I’m not sure that we could play Shelden or Solomon at center for 30+ minutes a game and win more than 32 games in the Eastern Conference.

By Dan

April 23, 2007 9:50 AM | Link to this

St Bernard

I agree…I’m not ready to hand the series to Golden State, either. I do think, however, that they will continue to put up a fight. There are going to be some really good games in this series. I love watching the Warriors play.

We do not have a good starting PG, right. Still p#ssess me off that Speedy Claxton was signed last summer…might be one of the worst free agent signings of all time. Sekou, you should have given Speedy a F-. I actually think you were being too nice to him when I read your article in yesterday’s paper.

By Dan

April 23, 2007 10:04 AM | Link to this

Anakin Joe,

Have we seen a team designed like the Warriors in the East? I cannot think of one off hand.

I think the design can work. A team following that blueprint would need a big man, however. He would have to be a big man that could get out and run, though (Oden, Camby). I don’t think someone like Eddy Curry would fit that system.

We have seen the Hawks just get outsized in so many games these last three years. It is hard to find good big men as it is. Even harder finding big men that can get out and run the floor.

By roan st

April 23, 2007 10:06 AM | Link to this

Dan, that is the most idiotic post I have ever read. First of all golden state has a top notch point guard and a very capable big man in biedrins. They also have a young 7 ft big in obryant that will be there in the future. Golden state’s GM was also smart enough to hire a coach who could utilize their strengths. Somehow you are able to extrapolate that because golden state is having success it gives billy knight credibility? Thats just plain silly because golden state has a much more balanced roster than the hawks even if they are playing a wide open game. If knight is so smart where is our baron davis type point guard?

By honest_abe

April 23, 2007 10:18 AM | Link to this

here’s a repeat from a post on the previous blog.

anbody else notice how the warriors with an imbalanced roster managed to beat the “best” team in the nba? granted it was one game and of course they have arguably one of the games best pg’s in baron davis, when healthy. but i just think there’s that much of a difference in a teams ability to win when a coach actually has a plan and aggressively uses his personnel in the best way. the warriors run and play frenetic defense. thats their m.o. now the warriors even with their imbalanced roster is better constructed than our hawks but you wonder how much better this team might have been with a coach who know what he was doing. yak!

also roan st: i don’t think dan is that way off. you say capable big man in biedrins, the guy didn’t do much last night and isn’t a legitimate big man. he score on the break and against smaller front lines but against the big boys he’s a non factor.

the biggest difference between the hawks and warriors comes down to pg. like ss mentioned and i think any true hoops head will agree, baron davis is a top 3 pg in this league when healthy. he absolutely went bananas in the 3rd quarter. it’s fun waching the warriors because for most of the 2nd half they went exclusively with al harrington as their 5. i think the hawks have very comparable pieces minus at the pg spot and the brains at the head coaching spot

By honest_abe

April 23, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

aj: i’ll have to disagree with you about the style not working in the east. man you put phoenix in the east who also have a unorthodox lineup… and they’d have won 70+ games this year. i think billy had the right idea, he just didn’t make the right decision when he should’ve drafted deron williams and he should’ve changed coaches last year.

By Dan

April 23, 2007 10:21 AM | Link to this

roan st

“most idiotic post I have ever read”….aren’t you tough.

You argue against what I posted by using a big man that never plays as an example? Also, Biedrins can run, which helps him fit. Notice he doesn’t log too many minutes, though.

That Golden State team is set up just like Billy Knight would like. I didn’t say that I liked the system. I didn’t say that I liked what Knight has done. So, why don’t you stop looking for arguements that are not there and chill out.

By Chip

April 23, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this

Today is one more perfect example of why Atlanta is THE WORST NBA CITY. Case in point. THERE IS ALMOST ZERO COVERAGE OF THE NBA PLAYOFFS IN THE ATLANTA JOURNAL! One piece of crap story about the playoffs and I can’t even find the results from the weekend. The Atlanta Journal SUCKS at NBA coverage!

By jlewis

April 23, 2007 11:13 AM | Link to this

I have a question for Sekou and the crowd here. Why is it that teams do not play zone against the Phoenix Suns, it slows down the game and makes the pick and roll offense ineffective, please let me know or am I just oversimplying it?

By Ryder

April 23, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this

Screw those haters Dan, I agree with you. Unfortunately Anakin was right in that the Hawks have a coach who is stuck in only playing in iso offense & halfcourt sets, which goes completely against what Knight wants in this team.

As for teams who do run in the East, Toronto is a running team (although they do have a good big in Bosh and a PG in Ford) and NJ (who also have a great PG in Kidd) that can be threats. Face it, the era of the dominant center (Oden notwithstanding) is over and teams are going to go towards a more run and gun style.

Unfortunately the Hawks are stuck with Woodson because the owners are never going to resolve this issue. Even if the Hawks were to draft Conley Jr. it won’t matter as Woodson will have no idea how to use him properly. I guarantee you that if you gave Woodson Golden State’s roster and you gave Nellie Atlanta’s roster, the Hawks would’ve been in the playoffs easy!

Sekou, is there a grade lower than F in Woodson’s case?

By Ryder

April 23, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

jlewis, I think most teams can’t play zone against Phoenix because their shooting from the perimeter is so good. The last few years when Dallas met the Suns in the playoffs they did try that in order to negate Nash’s effect. He was able to simply take over from the top of the key and shoot over the zone. Besides, teams like the Lakers aren’t good in the zone defense. Also, if Phoenix goes to a screen and roll (check out Charley Rosen’s article on foxsports.com, really great stuff) teams aren’t able to match up well against that.

By Ryder

April 23, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

Sorry St. Bernard, you gave that post about Woodson and the halfcourt offense. Let me give proper credit where it’s due.

I’m going to hold out in faith just one last time that Knight will actually draft a pg now that he realizes that getting veteran backups are a mistake for this should be up and down running offense.

By Dan

April 23, 2007 11:25 AM | Link to this

Ryder

Thanks for the support.

Toronto is a good running team. I’m not sure they play like Golden State, though. I’ve seen them slow things down when they have to. Teams like Golden State and the Suns never seem to stop running. I like how the Warriors attacked the basket with 2 + minutes left, got a hoop, and went up ten.

How many times do you see teams nurse an 8 point lead, get all out of wack, and then lose the lead? The Warriors just kept playing their game the whole night. Hope they can keep this up. I would love for them to pull the upset in this series. Although, I am still a big Jason Terry fan. He was one of my favorite Hawks when he was here.

By honest_abe

April 23, 2007 11:33 AM | Link to this

jlewis: its a matter of picking your poison. if you man up on the suns they go to their highly effective pick and roll… and since nash is the best pg in the nba he can find the open man. if a team chooses to go to a zone, the one thing a zone defense is vulnerable to is accurate 3 point shooting. since the suns are one of the best outside shooting teams in the leauge, playing zone usually isn’t a good idea.

overall, the suns have such good ball movement and spacing that they adjust to whichever defense you play on them and it usually results in open, high percentage shots.

By G Money

April 23, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

Sekou, Been reading from the sidelines. I agree with your grades. I stated that Woodson was the main problem months ago before I turned off my blogging text box. Anakin and Ryder are right. Somehow or another, the principal, Knight, and the school board, the ownership, should have gotten grades as well. Shelden was the biggest draft bust of Knight’s tenure here. Speedy might have been the least sensical gamble that Knight has made. Nonetheless, the team still had the weapons to play the style of ball that we all talked about in late October/early November. Perhaps Salim could have worked better in that system; maybe Shelden too (whoa). I am so itching to know the Hawks’ draft position fate. I would consider buying season tickets again if we got Oden, but we need a pg worse. It is so apparent that it’s pitiful.

As for GS…I made some not so nice comments about them being like the Hawks early in the season, and I was so wrong. BDavis makes them go. He’s incredible. I, for one, believe that they have the best chance of any underdog at winning a series. Dallas hasn’t beaten them this year. Nellie is like an old jedi master. It’s hard to compete even if your protege’ has all the tools.
There is still the debate of drafting a pg versus luring one with experience. I don’t believe mgmt has the money to lure one away. Drafting is way cheaper even if he may be a year or two away from being able to create maximum impact. Thoughts?

By jlewis

April 23, 2007 1:45 PM | Link to this

Nice comments on Phoenix guys, however, Phoenix only has Nash and Bell as 3 point shooters, Marion shoots a low percentage, and you can box and one Nash. Barbosa is good in the open court, when he is in the game you have him make decisions. I would rather make Nash a scorer and Stoudemire is selfish, he’ll get impatient and start to put it up whenever he gets it. The reason they have never beaten San Antonio is because their defense has always been a zone, and they funneled everthing inside. If you’re a pro, you should be able to play any defense, it comes down to discipline and fundamentals, these young cats have none. The league is full of Josh Smith’s, great athletic ability, but no court awareness and light on fundamentals.

By mike

April 23, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Dan, I think you made a valid point in your post. But it’s one thing everyone is overlooking in this series. Nelly built Dallas, so he knows how to exploit the Maverick weaknesses. I don’t agree with most of the crap Sir Charles makes in his comments about the games, but he was right on about his assessment of this match up. Avery Johnson is playing right into Nelly hands. If I’m Avery? I pound the ball inside to Diop and Dampier and make the Warriors prove they can stop that before bring in one my weakest defender off the bench just to try counter what the other coach is doing.

The thing you love about Nelly is his ability to create match ups that favor his team. It wouldn’t be fair to give Nelly’s system too much credit, because he has one the longest tenure of any coach in the league and he’s never won a championship with that system. I think the point is that the Warriors system takes advantage of the talent of the players on the team. That’s why I can see where Dan was going with his post. That’s why Woodson deserves the F Sekou gave him. I’m happy for Al Harrington. He was a class guy when he played for the Hawks, it good to see him in a system that utilizes his skills.

Woodson would have to have rocks in your head, if he didn’t figure out a way to incorporate Salim into his offense. Forget about Zaza guys, his defensive liabilities will always out weigh his offensive production. He doesn’t have the heart to play defense. The same is true for Lorenzen. It’s time to consider packaging Tlue, Jchill, with Zaza or Sheldon and to try get more some help at the 5 or 1 spot. If we get Oden, we make a move for a 1. If we a PG then we make a move for 5. It’s time for BK to finish what he started. He knew at some point he would have to trade one of the three. It time. These guys need playing time in order to keep improving their game, that want happen in Woodson system. These guys have proven their worth, we should be able to put together a package to fills some gaping holes at the 5 and 1 spot. That could also mean making a trade to move up in the draft.

By honest_abe

April 23, 2007 1:57 PM | Link to this

negative jlewis:

barbosa made more three than nash. barbosa made 190 3’s. nash made 156. bell made 205. shawn marion made 80. james jones made 90.

in comparison, the hawks leading 3 point shooter was jj and he made 119 the next highest 3 point shooter was t-lue and stoudamire tied at 56.

the suns can bomb from 3 point my friend.

By smartguy

April 23, 2007 2:09 PM | Link to this

**Attention Spirit”

Attention Spirit:**

What is taking so long? Please get rid of Woody ASAP. The sooner he is gone, the sooner we can move on, and forward. Please stop making your fans wonder if we are gonna get better. Get rid of Woody NOW!

By Clyde Jr.

April 23, 2007 2:11 PM | Link to this

When I look at all of the teams that had to rebuild and are now in the playoffs there is one thing in common. They have quick athletic guards that can push the tempo and get into the lane. I wonder if Woody would take that into account this year IF we get a draft pick.

FIRE BILLY ND WOODY

By jlewis

April 23, 2007 2:20 PM | Link to this

Not negative Abe, they all eat off Nash, that’s why you zone up and box and one Nash. I’ve watched every Phoenix game, for the past 5 years, that’s why when Nash is out they are ineffective, which has led to him being the MVP, without him, that team is very average. D’Antoni is a good coach, but he doesn’t adjust, he’s always going to play the same way, and believe me, the lakers series will be better than people think.

By Barry

April 23, 2007 2:25 PM | Link to this

Hey Yall:

I look at all the teams in the playoff and I think the sleeper is the New Jersey Nets. Isay this because Richard Jefferson is now healthy which menas he is bringing rebounding, scoring and defense to assist Jason Kidd and Vince Carter. Rememeber, the Nets can run, shoot and defend with any team in the NBA, especially when they are healthy. Now the are!! WATCH OUT FOR THE NETS!!!!!!!!!!

SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! This is a SECRET!!! Tell Everybody!!!!

Ringold

By honest_abe

April 23, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this

jlewis: what is your point? this was never about nash. i know nash is what makes that team tick. i know nash is the best pg in the league.

you asked why people dont’ play zone against phoenix. i said its because phoenix has a lot of good 3 point shooters. you responded by saying phx only has 2 three point shooters in nash and bell. thats when i gave you stats. teams have a hard time playing zone against the suns because they are a team that can kill from the outside.

that’s what i’m talkin about, now what the hell are you talkin about? you started off asking about zone defense and then went on a tirade about nash and how the lakers are going to make this a really competitive series. really? you said the suns are an avg team without nash.. guess what buddy nash is playing. also, what makes you think the lakers/suns series is going to be competitive? the lakers have a sorry squad. kobe is great, but that guy just loses his mind sometimes. completely goes against the flow of the game and presses at times. the rest of his team cant’ play a lick of d. there’s no way this series goes past 6 games and most likely will end in 5 with a shot to end in 4.

oh ya did i mention i like the lakers?

By michael m.

April 23, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this

sekou,

where are you getting that brandan wright has declared for the draft. the current word is that he is conflicted and will decide either today or tomorrow. i agree he will most likely come out, but haven’t seen that info confirmed yet anywhere.

also, your report card on zaza was a little bit harsh. his grade should be a C+ or B-.

By mavid

April 23, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

yeah, baron davis is ridiculous.

Indiana got FLEECED on that trade. I still laugh at it.

By **LL Cool Scott**

April 23, 2007 2:54 PM | Link to this

SEKOU, The incomplete grade for the front office perplexed me. Getting lucky/unlucky in the lottery is no reflection on the job done by Billy Knight. It’s pure blind luck. Billy deserves a grade. If you’re going to give all of Billy’s draft picks and acquisitions bad grades, it seems to reason that Billy deserves one as well. May I suggest an unprecedented F-?

By Sekou K. Smith

April 23, 2007 3:03 PM | Link to this

LL,

My “F” for the front office is cocked and loaded. Not only did they not make a major move at the trade deadline, thus allowing a tender Eastern Conference playoff race to move on without them. But they also sent the entire team into the season prepared to fail with an imbalanced roster (that I’ve been writing about forever). So when I said they had an incomplete, I didn’t mean they could go from an F to an A. It’s either an F or a low D. The only reason for the wait is that if they do get those two lottery picks (unlikely but possible), their inactivity doesn’t look quite as disastrous as it does now. If they don’t get any picks (highly unlikely but possible), then we can really start feasting on the bones of the front office folks.

By **LL Cool Scott**

April 23, 2007 3:12 PM | Link to this

SEKOU! You don’t consider acquiring Anthony Johnson and destroying our Mid-Level Exception for this summer a “major” move? That acquisition was crucial. Without it, we might have won only 29 games instead of 30. Who needs a mid-level exception and cap flexibility when you’re this close to a title push?! Well played again, Mr. Babcock…errr…I mean Mr. Knight…

By mavid

April 23, 2007 3:13 PM | Link to this

This summer will really make or break the front office. The obvious move would be to try to get Conley and then play him and speedy at the point together (like CP3and speedy). Speedy is just better suited as a backup with less minutes so that he can holdup longer (an expensive but good backup he will be).

I say after that, you keep AJ because he is can play either of the guard positions, and trade Lue because Lue carries more trade value.

Then, the question is the 5 spot. I wouldve loved to take a chance on Sean Williams from BC in the 2nd round (dude wouldve gone in the lottery had he not had behavioral problems involving Mary Jane, etc). But, we may have to try to make a trade with Zaza or Shelden or Chill + Lue for that 5. Not sure there.

By Dan

April 23, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Sekou

Just do us all a favor. When you write that article grading the frong office, just rip into them. Hold nothing back. Bring up all the bad moves you mentioned (trade deadline, beginning of the season roster). Also, don’t forget to rip them for Speedy Claxton (although, Billy Knight deserves most of the blame there) and wasting the chance to trade Al Harrington for quality players.

I’m more upset about the signing of Speedy, but the Al situation bothers me, too. Billy Knight must be the worst negotiator on the planet if he could only land a top 10 protected pick for Al. Why not Jeff Foster and AJ (who we later had to give up a 2nd round pick for)? The two of them in exchange for Al is more than fair. Billy Knight got totally schooled on that deal.

Anyway, Sekou, let ‘em have it!

By jhan

April 23, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

Trading AL for Foster & AJ would have been even more horrendous than what happened. I’m not a fan of BK, but that could turn out to be an awesome trade. If we end up with a PG at #11, then that was a good trade.

By mavid

April 23, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

yeah, if we get conley. Harrington for Conley is a steal by us.

By michael m.

April 23, 2007 5:13 PM | Link to this

the al deal worked out fine for us. in fact, i think had bk not screwed up the phx deal with jj, he would not have held out to get the protection he ultimately did, 1-10. i am sure walsh wanted it to be complete lottery protection at the very least. knocking it down to 1-10 enabled us to get the pick at #11. so give bk credit where it’s due. bk has screwed up plenty, but in this case it worked out.

just saw that wright indeed has decided to leave unc so that brings the consensus TOP 12 to oden, durant, horford, noah, jianlian, b. wright, j. wright, green, brewer, hibbert, hawes, and conley. right behind them are law, thornton and batum battling for the late lotto picks.

knock on wood that indy stays at #11 and we will get a good pick. hopefully conley lasts there, but some scouts have reported they expect him to move up after workouts to a top 4 or 5 position. i have already mentioned previously that if we get the #3 pick, we should select conley there. and depending on what happens with our own pick, if we lucked into oden, i would use a piece like childress if necessary to move up and secure conley. but if we end up with just a pick at #11 and conley is gone, we still have a shot at a hibbert or hawes, with law as the fallback. although i could potentially see a scenario where we rate law above those two anyway. not sure yet though. at worst for us, the #11 pick would come up with two of the three swingmen (green, j. wright, brewer) still available. if that were to happen, we just pick acie law and call it a day. the combo of indy faltering and so many of the elite underclassmen joining this draft has been a lucky break for the usually unlucky hawks. it’s all up to the ping pong balls at this point.

By michael m.

April 23, 2007 5:16 PM | Link to this

sekou, don’t you think your grade of zaza was a bit harsh? i know you went into the season thinking he was the one hawk that needed to raise his game, but it seems you have held that unfairly against him when judging what he ended up doing. i agree his defensive effort needs to ramp up, but compared to the money and results given by chris kaman, pryzbilla, etc., zaza has continued to be a very good value.

By Jay

April 23, 2007 6:16 PM | Link to this

I dont see how you can give Knightmare a pass when he’s the one that reached on Shelden, he’s the one that signed Speedy, he’s the one that signed Wright, he’s the one that gave away a high 2nd round pick (and a decent chance that would have been our ONLY pick) for ANOTHER backup pg, he’s the one that reached on Chills, passed on Paul, passed on Foye and Roy, didnt get fair value for Harrington…but you kill Woodson?

You can have the best chef in the world, but if he has the wrong ingredients…the food is still gonna suck. Woodson has the wrong ingredients.

By doc

April 23, 2007 6:51 PM | Link to this

the hawks front office are left to hope for a lucky bounce. not eactly what you want from upper management but that is, what it is. got unlucky with the injuries but many other folks say the same so that just goes in and comes out even. milwauke and boston fell flat with injuries and get a better chance at the bug prize, philly and new orleans overcame their issues to come on strong in spite of the hand dealt to them. other franchises have gotten lucky and played it out big like san antonio and others have faltered to let the big guy get out of their hands like orlando. shame we as hawks’ fans are relegated to their ineptitude and their continued silence.

By roan st

April 23, 2007 7:50 PM | Link to this

Dan, and whoever else wants to compare the hawks roster to golden state needs to ask yourself these questions- Do the hawks have a big man that averaged 9.5 boards a game and totaled 137 blocks for the season? NO! Do the hawks have a point guard that averaged 20 points and 9 assist a game? NO! Do the hawks have a coach who can teach the wide open game? NO! So are the hawks even close to being a golden state? HELL NO! So again how you can say that golden states success should somehow give billy knight credibility is a mystery to me. The most important element to the run and gun game is having great point guards and the warriors have two in davis and monte ellis. Billy knight refuses to even draft a point guard.

Dan, the point I was making about the warriors drafting obryant is that they have a young big to groom for the future. We on the other hand drafted an unathlectic and undersized forward who gets pushed around in the paint like a b***.

By Sekou K. Smith

April 23, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this

I don’t think I was harsh on Zaza at all. If anything, I think I was too nice. I like the guy, but I can’t excuse the fact that he’s supposed to be one of the guys you can depend on when you come into this season and he disappeared. Why is he immune to the same criticisms as anyone else? No one has a problem with Woody or Speedy getting knocked for their performance. So why give Zaza a pass?

By Wedgie Evans

April 23, 2007 8:06 PM | Link to this

The Warriors are not even close to the best team in the playoffs, but I really think they can take Dallas in this series. The Mavs, for those who don’t know, haven’t beat Golden State yet this year (Golden State has won all 4 meetings so far). Golden State matches up really well with Dallas, with their size advantage in the backcourt and the overall athleticism on the team. I think Dirk will figure out how to play in pressure situations at some point, but it very well might not happen before this series is over. Even if Golden State would get their asses kicked by every other team, they match up really well with Dallas, and that could be enough to send them to the second round. I’m picking GS in 6.

About the front office, I must say that their performance is so bad that Woodson almost deserves a pass. Woodson may be a poor offensive coach who can’t take advantage of his players’ abilities, but at least he’s always been a stand-up guy and has taken responsibility for the team’s failures. Billy Knight still seems to think he knows what he’s doing, when it’s painfully obvious that he doesn’t. If one of them has to stay, I’d much rather see the Hawks keep Woodson than Knight.

By michael m.

April 23, 2007 9:01 PM | Link to this

sekou, zaza’s numbers this past year are basically the same as they were the year before, when everyone thinks he was a pleasant surprise. it led you to your belief in preseason that he was the guy that needed to step it up. he teased all of us early in the season with the two-man game he played with jj that garnered us a couple early wins. so while i agree he needed to step it up a notch this past season, i disagree that his maintaining the status quo leaves him with the grade of D that you marked him with. that said, i sure hope he steps it up next year, but i am not sure if that’s ever going to happen. still, 12 and 7 in less than 30 minutes a night isn’t bad when you consider the many overpaid and so-called centers running around this league depositing paychecks that their size 16 shoes can’t cash.

By Tyger

April 23, 2007 9:04 PM | Link to this

In re: Hawks Grades

I thought you were a lil’ rough on ‘ole Coach Woody. He failed to make the playoffs but playoffs werent based in any reality, everybody just got giddy after they played well for a few games.

My Grades:

Woody - didnt make playoffs, didnt develop youngsters early enough, didnt master rotations. Yet he holds this team together despite impotent ownership. For that he gets a C.

JJ - great individual player, but I question his ability to make those around him better. He can shoot lights out, but his ball handling and defense are suspect. All-star was by default. He gets a B.

JSmoove - one of the most gifted players in league continues to show his promise. Hopefully, his low brow attitude wont derail a blossoming career. Coachability issues drop him to B.

JChill - one of the most versatile finesse players in league, seems to always make the right play. Injuries and lack of strength drop him to B.

Marvin - starting to show the goods for a pick of his caliber. Needs improvement in all phases especially coordination and footwork. Needs to be more aggressive. (B-)

ZaZa - teases you with double-double talent, but cant seem to put it all together for the long haul. Defense is lacking but he scores and is generally healthy. (C+)

T. Lue - is the best point guard on the team, but cant stay healthy and is getting long in the tooth. We need him on the floor not in a suit. He teased us more than he helped us.(C)

Salim - continues to grow despite whatever issues the coach has with him. Could be the steal of the 2005 draft if on another team. (B)

Speedy - needs to turn his check over to Goodwill. (F)

AJ - underwhelming but can play (B) Shelden - better at center??? (C+) LoWright - keeps the chumps at bay (C)

Solomon - another BK steal (C+)

By Matt

April 23, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

I think I’m alone in my thinking that Knight’s done the best he could with the hands he’s been dealt, and that this team would have been playoff-bound if not for the rash of injuries. I take comfort in the fact that Knight makes his decisions like a brother should - based on what he sees and hears rather than on what the ever-fickle and impatient Atlanta fan base thinks. This team is much closer to being legit players than I think most people realize.

Sekou, I respect you to death, and think you’re one of the best beat writers in all of sports.

Paternity leave’s over, so it’s back to 60-hour work weeks at the firm for me. Everyone have a great summer.

By honest_abe

April 23, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

roan st: you could use a xanex. geez mang, something get under your skin?

nobody is saying the hawks are as good as the warriors. i don’t want to speak for dan, but to me it seemed like he felt that the warrior roster is what bk had in mind as he constructed this team. we all the know the hawks have big holes at the pg and c positions. that’s no revelation.. but if you look at golden state they are really undersized but they run at every chance and they take advantage of their athletic swingmen.

if you can’t see the similarities maybe its you thats blind. nobodys calling a billy knight a saint but maybe we’re just trying to understand why he made the picks and moves he did.

By Mike

April 23, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

Whys it so easy for these guys to forget the mess BK inherited when he became the GM of this team? Could it be that they have only following the Hawks for the last three years. I challenge any of you basketball guru go back and look at the Hawks roster from a salary cap and GM perspective. I dare anyone to make the statement that he hasn’t improve the team since he took over. If you going to base your decision two draft than 80% of GM in the league wouldn’t have a job. I agree with Sekou assessment of the front office. Wait and see what happens. Me personally I think BK was the biggest Jack A* of last year draft. Gambling on a guy with an injury plague career, and taking someone at 5 you could’ve trade down and got and still got a PG. But the Hawks haven’t had a number one pick in any of these draft, so he wasn’t the only GM to pass on CPaul, DWilliams, or Roy. I still think Marvin has the most up-side of the guys in that draft.

The reason the Harrington deal got screwed up is because Donnie Walsh balk at the trade after he realize BK had no bargaining power. Belkin had to sign off on any multiyear trades. Indy was the one holding up the trade. Al wanted to go to either Indy or Golden State. Would you have rather BK traded with Golden State for Dunlevy and Troy Murphy? Every GM in league knows about the fiasco surrounding management. They know Belkin has to sign of on any meaningful deals BK makes.

Everybody talks about how bad the Nique trade for Manning was. What about trading Steve Smith for Isaiah Rider. That trade was just as bad. BK doesn’t get a free pass for the questionable move he made. But it’s not like the Hawks have no talent. Everybody is complaining about the JJ trade. The guy was the 5th leading scorer in the league playing for the Hawks. That means he gets no respect, no superstar calls from the refs. Team’s beat’em up every night; he never complains, plays his heart out. Played even when he was injured. What the hell else do JJ gotta due to get some respect from you guys. You can dogg BK all you want, but lay off my boy JJ.

Babcock gave up a first round draft pick for Dan Dickou. Anybody remember him? He play for Zags. BK is arrogant and cocky, so he deserves all the criticism he’s receiving. But I’m tired of guys insulting JJ with these blogs. Like Sekou said lets wait and see how the ping pong falls. While you’re waiting on the ping pong balls check out the rest of the teams that owe other teams first round draft picks. See what they got in return.

By Jay

April 23, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

Babcock was one of the worst gm’s ever. I sure as hell remember. Couldnt draft worth a lick. Dont forget he also traded away Gasol, drafted freaking Cal Bowdler(seriously?!?), Demarr Johnson, Dickau and Rider already mentioned, Glenn Robinson, playoff guarantee, signed Alan Henderson to a huge deal, traded Mutumbo who is still playing well…he was AWFUL.

Bk blew it up, but its so much easier to get rid of crap then to assemble a decent team. So far Knightmare is following proudly in Babcock’s footsteps.

SEKOU…I like that you’re posting on here with us after your blogs. Keep it up if you can.

As for ripping on Zaza, so what? If that could sustain his level of play he’d be an all-star. Instead he lost his job to “zero points and six fouls” Wright. Then he was getting leftovers from the kids. When we first signed him it looked like a steal. Now? Contract was right on, if not a little overpaid.

By Wedgie Evans

April 24, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

I agree with Sekou’s assessment of Zaza. It’s not all about stats. Zaza is quite possibly the worst defender among all the big men in the NBA, and every time he was in the game it put undue pressure on Josh Smith to help on interior defense. At least Lorenzen Wright fouled people and sent them to the free throw line to earn their points; Zaza couldn’t do that either. Scoring 12 points per game seems OK until you consider that he shot 44% from the field, which is subpar for a big man. Yeah, he’s probably better suited to coming off the bench, but for better or for worse the Hawks were depending on him to improve on last year’s performance and become a dependable presence inside. He failed at that. If he was getting paid more, he probably deserves an F, but considering his salary a D makes sense.

By reese

April 24, 2007 12:37 AM | Link to this

I agree with the F for woodson. However, I would have given JJ a b plus. Yes, he was a great offensive threat.

However, he was not the leader to get this team to the next level. He backed his coaches by saying that the bench players didn’t deserve playing time because of their practice habits. Then, when he goes to the disabled list, those same bench players were part of a 4 game win streak which matched that same that he could muster when playing.

Additionally, JJ played too many minutes which brought about diminishing returns in his overall play on both the offensive and defensive ends. I would have liked to see more steals, more rebounds, more blocks and more assist. Similar to what Josh Smith brought to the table.

Also, I would have given Josh Childress and Marvin Williams a C. They were average players and every team in the league has players like them. They can’t dribble, are too weak and like JJ, they played too many minutes and had diminishing returns.

Lorenzen, Speedy, Royal and Estaban deserved F.

I agree with the D for Zaza. However, a lot of that has to do with matching him up with the undersized Shelden Williams, marvin williams and josh smith. Zaza will be the athletic or defensive oriented Centers to compensate for the undersized forwards. Losing playing time to the grab a player never saw a shot I like Lorenzen wright is embarrising.

Face it bloggers, the team had a below average season and deserve average to below average grades.

By reese

April 24, 2007 1:03 AM | Link to this

Billy Knights theory about playing similar size players who can play multiple positions requires those players to be very skillful ball handlers, very good shooters, able to penetrate and make layups, able to penetrate and make good passes, rebounding by committee and confidence in their abilities. Some of those players must be athletic.

Plus, they must have a coach who will tell their players to keep shooting and push the pace. Woodson was too concerned with holding teams to 92 points and being happy. Phoenix, LA, Washington, Golden State and Denver each gave up more than 100 points per game. However, each team pushed the tempo and scored more than their opponents.

Golden state had six players who blocked shots. Their point guard had 14 rebounds and 33 points. Baron davis has dominated Jason Terry his entire career.

Then, we have Billy Knight who drafted players (childress, Jsmith, Dsmith, Mwilliams, Swilliams) who are of similiar height but cannot dribble and suspect passing skills. This leads to high turnovers and low assist numbers. Tlue and AJohnson are career backup point guards who cannot stop any other teams point guards and can’t consistently push the pace because they are not athletic and both are out of shape.

This summer, Marvin, JoshS and JoshC must improve their ball handling. We need to go after Mike Bibby in free agency and we need to draft a Center in the draft. Solomon Jones needs to gain weight and develop strength to see if he can challenge for the starting power forward position.

By honest_abe

April 24, 2007 9:08 AM | Link to this

go after mike bibby? bah! the guy is an aging scorer, who can’t play a lick of defense. how in the world is that our solution? he was effective in sac towns princeton offense, where ball movement was crisp and they had big men that could shoot and pass. why pay big bucks for a glorified luke ridenour? no thank you.

as for those who think the hawks are that far off from golden state aren’t looking close enough. if you watched the hawks beat the warriors both times this year they played an up and down type of game. granted the hawks most likely would’ve lost if baron davis was playing (he actually did play in the hawks first win) my point is in both those games the hawks displayed superior athletiscm compared to the warriors. you give this hawks team a competent coach and a damn good pg ..ie chauncey billups and this team is right there with golden state if not better.

let’s compare a hawks team with chauncey to the warriors.

starters chauncey vs baron d. jj vs jason richardson marv williams vs stephen jackson jsmith vs al harrington zaza vs biedrins

bench salim vs monta ellis jchill vs matt barnes

hawks new coach:

rick adelman vs nellie

bring the heat fellas…i’m waiting!

By mike

April 24, 2007 9:26 AM | Link to this

Here are the stats for the Hawks this season. So instead expecting more JJ, you need to be directing that to the other guys on the team. Josh is the only other guy showing more than one time is the only other in that statistical category. Just looking at these stats tell you who you need to build the team around.

Stat Player AVG Scoring Joe Johnson 25.0 Rebounds Josh Smith 8.6 Assists Josh Smith 3.3 FG% Joe Johnson 47.1 FT% Tyronn Lue 88.3 3PT% Joe Johnson 38.1 Blocks Josh Smith 2.9 Steals Josh Smith 1.4

This is with JJ missing the last half of the season. Any more complaints about Jsmoove game?????????????????????????????????????????

By Anakin Joe

April 24, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this

Mike he was a major contributor on a 30 win team. WTF, are you nominating him for the league MVP?

By St. Bernard

April 24, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

Can anyone tell me where to find out who the FA pgs are this year. I think Chauncey, Bibby, and Mo Williams are the top three.

By Anakin Joe

April 24, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

St Bernard, the link below will give you all of the free agents for this summer.

http://www.realgm.com/src_freeagents/2007/

I’m not sure that Bibby will be listed, as he has a player’s option to end his contract. I’m guessing he will likely keep the contract, as his value must be at an all-time low. But if Sacramento hires a coach whom he doesn’t want to play for, then maybe he will opt out of his deal.

By honest_abe

April 24, 2007 12:01 PM | Link to this

my take on zaza is this, what did you expect? he was a young bench player from orlando and milwaukee. he was a guy i saw jsmith block like 100 times in his rookie year and this was all in one game. he has limited athleticsm and we signed him on the cheap. how is it his fault that he is expected to deliver big time on a team with no depth on their front line. do you know why he was signed so cheaply? because there wasn’t any demand for him. so there’s no freakin way he deserves an F. he’s paid like a role player. he delivers better than a average role player so he in my book deserves a B-, based on the fact that he has serious defensive limitations.

By Anakin Joe

April 24, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this

Abe, I agree, a B- for the Georgian. Zaza greatly improved his 16-18 footer jump shot, which he didn’t have during his first few seasons with the Hawks. He was able to improve his offensive production despite playing fewer minutes per game than the previous year. Oh yeah, and if anyone needs a true PG, it is a big man who can’t dominate the paint with his athleticism. Zaza is likely highly attractive to playoff teams like the Lakers, Spurs and Toronto as he would provide an upgrade at a reasonable price. While he is clearly inconsistent, so was our PG play and offensive schemes.

By doc

April 24, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this

cant see trashing zaza while giving ren a pass. he still is the only big we have that can begin to play an offensive game and while he was in the folw of things playing off jj the team did well. he is not the crasher we need based on the expectations of the coach but neither is take a foul ren. when we went up against big teams we didnt counter with what we do best and that is to run instead we stood around and watched as the other teams bigs dealt out some damage gainst usually only one big guy whether it be zaza or ren.

zaza didnt improve significantly this year but i also think their was an issue about what his role waas to be. a banger he aint, netiher is sheldon and certainly not ren but that is what was expected. the style of play will have to change or the coaches will have to go with bigger line ups if they expect to stay in games where the other guy puts out he wide bodies, zaz or anyone cant do it all in a stand around post up style of play that we sasw thw team choke in like kudzu roo often.

seems like sekou is more locked and loaded against the guy from georgia than he is among some others. kinda surprising he took his shots against our only frontline player who got less time on the court and probably less touches from the year before but still expected to have him improve his stats on a team that uses him as a third or fourth option. lets see hawks offense.. look to … jj, josh, point still holding on to the ball as the clock runs down and then zaza. not hard to defend that offense.

the bench didnt deliver because it wasnt given the opportunity by the coaches or the other players see comments on jj’s slam against his own teammmates noted above. look only to the tentative play of salim most of the season. if that isnt a strong message about the pecking order and how things were done to break the confidence of some i dont know what is.

By mike

April 24, 2007 1:49 PM | Link to this

Anakin Joe

Not hardly, Just showing the stats. Just showing who’s putting it down night and night out. Zaza is 30 pounds heavier than Solo and they’re the same height. If Solo can get in there and mix it up, then so can he and Lorenzen. Lorenzen will file a guy instead of giving a clear path to the goal. How much better would Jsmoove game be if didn’t have cover for the 5 spot. Quit crying for Zaza and send him to the wizard to get a heart. The other blogger is right, Zaza is better suited for team that needs scoring out of that position and no defense. That will never be the case with the Hawks. If you’re playing the 4 or 5 in the East you gotta have some D.

I like Mo Williams and Billups. Not sure about Bibby, he stays injured. It’ll be another gamble like Speedy. Yea the Hawks were a 30 win team, but they had about 12 games where they lost bye 6 or fewer points. They win those and they make the playoff. That’s coaching. I actually think Woodson learns something from this season. He may never admit it, but he’s knows he has to learn how to incorporate more players into a scheme that takes advantage of their skills. If he doesn’t he will suffer the same consequences as the last three years. He’ll also be back holding a clip board for another head coach.

By Dan

April 24, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this

Sekou

I agree with those that think you were too hard on Zaza. Let’s remember that hardly any of us knew who the guy was when he signed before last season.

How can you put him as a player you can count on every night? He would be a really good back up big man. As a starter, he is usually overmatched by the other team’s big man/men. He does his best.

I think the same can be said for Lorenzen Wright. Neither he nor Zaza should be your main big man. That is one of many flaws with the setup of this team. Zaza and Lorenzen play hard, but they just aren’t as talented or as strong as the players they are matched up with.

I think your expectations of both were just too high. They are what they are. Nothing more, nothing less.

I would have given both a C or C+. They are average players.

By doc

April 24, 2007 2:05 PM | Link to this

you know there werent too many games that we all marveled at how the coaching made the difference. maybe one night when woody made the switch to a zone to counter the other team when they were hot. coaches are the ones who control momentum by the timeouts or subs made. woody had a bit more in his arsenal than he had the confidence in to play. mike, i agree he hopefully has learned something.

just dont agree about zaza as i saw too many times where the other team marches out about three guys that are bigger than zaza and there is no counter move to bring in solo with a huge reach advantage where zaza is limited or even have the confidence to play ren and zaza together which by the numbers worked better than leaving marvin on the floor. marvin seeemed to be the guy who needed back side help the most on this team and needed a huge amount of help on the defensive end. zaza was less a liability than were the defense of the points, when speedy wasnt on the floor, marvin and to some degree jj as he concentrated so hard on the offensive end, played too long and usually out of gas towards the end of too many games.

By honest_abe

April 24, 2007 2:13 PM | Link to this

another thing to remember… yes, zaza was a step slow on defensive rotations.. but, its not for a lack of effort. maybe he could’ve done a better job of preparation, maybe he could’ve been coached more effectively to where he can understand where and why he’s supposed to be at a certain spot on the floor. but it’s not like i saw him lolly gaggin around on the defensive end. to me it looked like he was trying, but overmatched most of the time and sometimes just confused.

By Melvin

April 24, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

Okay Hawks fans, I was looking at the 2007 projected draft on nbadraft.net. Given their scenario, the Hawks will pick 11th via Indy (forfeiting their own pick to Phx). Base of their projection, Conley and Noah will be availble and they think the Hawks will pick Noah. Who do you think the Hawks should pick? I’m undecided between the two. I’m leaning towards Noah at the moment…

By mike

April 24, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

Dan For one thing Marvin never plays the 5 spot. That where the gaping holes is on defense. We were either giving up uncontested lay-ups or monster dunks. How much effort does it take to give a guy a hard foul? You may not be able to block his shot, but he’ll think twice when he goes in there a second time. Other team did it to us, I’m just saying give some back. Why is it that you guys can demand so much out of JJ, Jsmoove, Jchill, Marvin, and Sheldon and let Zaza off the hook. I thought you guys were tired of under achieving mediocre play. Could it be that are some other ulterior motive. Last I check he’s a professional basketball players like the rest of the guys.

By Dan

April 24, 2007 2:47 PM | Link to this

Melvin

If that is how the draft works out, I vote for Conley. I have no doubt that he will be a really good, maybe great, NBA player someday.

Noah, on the other hand, I’m not sold on. The guy is a really good college player. In the Championship game, though, I thought he was totally overmatched by Oden. It really was not even close. I think Noah will run into those situations a lot in the NBA.

If the Hawks end the draft with Conley on the roster, I would be really happy. If they get both Conley and Oden, I will be dancing in the streets.

By honest_abe

April 24, 2007 3:06 PM | Link to this

mike i hope you arent’ even hinting at what i think you are. this blog is clean of whatever you are insinuating. some of the smartest guys who dont’ think in terms of color. i think everyone gave a pretty good reason why they didnt’ think zaza did such a bad job. but i’ll break it down for you as best as i can.

zaza = no expectations. quick question, when was he drafted? ha you didn’t know the answer did you. well let me help you out he was the 13th pick in the 2nd round. 2nd question, did you know who zaza was before he signed with the hawks? maybe you had seen him play once but i doubt you saw him play much more than that. he wasn’t and really still isn’t a known commidity. thats why he was signed on the cheap. he has limited athleticsm and rarely has the offense flow through him. he doesnt’ get consistent touches and he doesn’t have the athletic ability to go out and jump over people to get the ball. so all those offensive rebounds you see are a direct result of pure effort. like aj mentioned earlier he improved his game from last year. some of you just had unrealistic expectations for the guy coming into the year.

as for comparing zaza to the others. well jj got an A, and j smith got a B, i don’t know what you want from us. but, most fans expect more from these guys because they have more ability and potential. real simple. so dont’ reach into that bag of ugliness just because you think its convenient. that topic usually stays out of this blog and we like it that way.

By Dan

April 24, 2007 3:20 PM | Link to this

mike

Were you responding to me or someone else? I never mentioned Marvin in my last post.

Anyway, to your point, the difference between Zaza and the others you mentioned: Zaza was not brought here to be a star. Zaza was brought here to be a role player. The others were high draft picks, expect to make a huge impact. That is why Zaza is looked at differently. I would say the same thing about Lorenzen Wright,too. So, don’t go implying any race bllsht.

I think someone like Joe Johnson (who is probably my favorite player not from Michigan State) expects to have high expectations placed on him. That is why he signed for the big money. If a big money guy messes up, he is going to catch heat. That is the way it should be, too. I do not think Joe Johnson would tell you any difference.

That is my big beef with Speedy. He signs a big money deal and then can’t (or won’t) produce. He fakes injuries and never goes out of his way to help the team. He should catch heat every day. If I had Sekou’s job, I would rip Speedy on a daily basis. That clown should be made miserable for taking the huge money and not producing any kind of positive results.

By mike

April 24, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

honest_abe I never have and and never will stoop to that level. That’s beneath me. I’m get trying to figure what’s the reasoning behind Zaza getting all this love, and the rest of gets team gets dogg to hell. Don’t forget Abe the Hawks are my team, so that includes Zaza. How do we let Zaza off the hook?

By mike

April 24, 2007 3:27 PM | Link to this

How is Zaza play so much better than Marvin.

By mike

April 24, 2007 3:35 PM | Link to this

Guys cool down, your talking to the wrong guys about race. You’ll get none race baitng stuff out of me. I’m saying I’v listening to you guys casterate Sheldon and Marvin, now your saying it’s okay to cut Zaza some slack. It’s like blaming the others guys for where they got picked in the draft. None of guys had a say so in what team drafted or traded for them, so how does Zaza get a pass.

By honest_abe

April 24, 2007 3:37 PM | Link to this

ok mike fair enough.. final thing i’ll say about zaza….

the guy doesnt’get that much love on this board. most responded to the F grade that he received from Sekou. in some people opinions he did a little better than that. it doesnt mean people on this board though he did a wonderful, fantastic job. we all know his defensive liablities. but everything considered, money, plays, effort… he deserves either on the low end a C or high end a B.

By doc

April 24, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

final grade for zaza as a d is absurd. get rid of the bum if he is that bad; just dont think he came close to being the reason for the losses. the formula that would have worked and did work early in the season was to make most of the offense go through either zaza or jj. that changed along with strings of losses as he became less an integral part of the offense. if we played the kind of game like the suns then fine go with the wings and run and gun but he was the forgotten man at times.

none other than ando brought it up at one of the games i was lucky enough to go to and share thoughts with him how left out of the mix zaza was in the scheme of things. he wondered out loud if there was some sort of a locker room conspiracy to keep him as the last alternative and be the guy to make points on his own with offensive rebounds. the expectations were high this year for zaza and i for one questioned them because he was going to get fewer minutes hopefully, because we now had anther bug guy in rens. the latter guy failed miserably and only proved to be a big that could foul but had no other game beyond that. if rens gets a d at 3 mil per then zaza gets a c at least at a similar cost but with a whole lot better numbers.

rens was a waste of money but he proably played PRACTICE well. as we know that is where our coach really wanted the guys to prove themselves, games action didnt count.

By mike

April 24, 2007 3:59 PM | Link to this

Thanks Abe

By the way I seen your blog about the Dirty Birds Draft. I’ll be checking in from time to time. I’ll have to wait till the ping pong balls settle. We got to much riding on this draft.

Dan if weren’t the guy that made that comment, then my bad.

Zaza is a young guy he’s only 23 years old, so he’s still will continue to improve. I point I’m making is because of his foot work, he’ll mainly have to play the 5. He definely want ablebe to guard many PF’s. He’ll have no choice but to get stronger on defense.

By Melvin

April 24, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

Dan, the reason i was leaning toward Noah over Conley b/c if Noah develops into a top notch big man than we could probably fine a complimentary PG to Noah easier than finding a complimentary Big Man to Conley.