Hawks

By hawks fan

April 6, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this

I agree with you wholeheartedly Sekou.

Re: player development, Josh Smith is a great example. First, he has the desire to be a great player, which we all know is vital. But anyone who thinks he’d be as good as he is today if he stayed in college for three years is kidding themselves.

By Al

April 6, 2007 3:09 PM | Link to this

tonight against the Bucks is a must lose game the hawks need to just keep sucking so we can get Oden

By Harry Hawk

April 6, 2007 3:18 PM | Link to this

Sekou, Dana Altman stood to make considerably more money at Arkansas than he did at Creighton. Like Bobby Cremins when he left for South Carolina and then changed his mind, Altman just committed too soon to something and realized it was the wrong move to make. And, hey, Billy Donovan is going to get paid by Florida. He made that school a basketball power. He could have been a god at Kentucky, but for Florida basketball, he is God. Billy Donovan used Kentucky’s interest to drive up his price at Florida. The only thing he proved by staying at Florida is that he’s smart enough not to want to deal with the insanity of the folks up in Lexington. Billy Donovan would leave Florida for the NBA before he’d take another college job. This is just my take, but he seems like he’d be able to handle the NBA game better than Pitino ever could. In other words, Billy Donovan didn’t have to go to Kentucky to prove anything. Billy Gillispie does. That’s why he left A&M. He also be making some serious paper. After all, coaches don’t have a union. They can be fired at any time. They have to look out for Number One at all times. Or, if you’re Gillispie going to Kentucky, your team needs to be Number One at all times.

Players are not brought into schools and paid millions of dollars, that’s why I have no problem with guys coming out right after high school. If they can get paid, why not? If you’re a high school first-rounder and you never do anything in your career, you’re still likely to get a couple of NBA contracts because you have “potential”. That’s five or six years of millions of dollars. I could never fault a player for wanting that. I honestly believe it’s more about protecting union jobs than anything else. Old guys don’t want young guys taking their spots. David Stern can claim that it’s for the good of the game, but…yeah, whatever.

By BRANDON

April 6, 2007 3:22 PM | Link to this

I UNDERSTAND THE HAWKS HAVE NOTHING TO PROVE BY WINNING BUT AT THE SAME TIME THEY GOT TO HAVE PRIDE THESE FANS DON’T WANT TO SPEND THEIR MONEY JUST TO SEE THE HAWKS GET BLOWN OUT BY THE BUCKS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE HAWKS WIN BUT I WOULDN’T MING THEM LOSING EITHER

By jhan

April 6, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this

I think fringe players are also collecting money they wouldn’t if the age rule wasn’t in effect. Do you think the vet’s like or dislike the age limit? It might add a couple more years to the career of older bench players who would be replaced by cheaper rookies.

By Clyde

April 6, 2007 3:39 PM | Link to this

I hope Lamont Gordon comes out this year. He will be the sleeper of this years draft.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=27284

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By doc

April 6, 2007 3:50 PM | Link to this

sekou, though the ncaa benefits from the one and done, i dont think that the nba’s cba had any concern for the ncaa as they made the ruling. it was about the nba throwing money at young kids as a crap shoot avoiding mistakes and the few jobs of vets that were sacrificed for the incoming high school class that couldnt play to their level but were sacrificed anyway. it was about their money and constituents not the ncaa. of course the ncaa and cbs were very pleased with the ruling and spun it big time to their benefit and the importance to the student athelete’s experience but it was only about money for the nba.

it is also like the silly spin suggesting a cap which is the biggest piece of spin in the world of professional sports. if it were real then there is no way isiah gets to add randolph to his payroll as he does the shotgun approach to being a gm; take a money blast at anyone who will take it. realistically, the only teams under “cap” were the hawks and the bobcats so i imagine if it were real wouldnt they have been the onlt ones to have been able to “bid” for him? the cap is a misnomer and isnt anywhere close to the nhl or the nfl.

yeah, harry hawk, we agree and we sing to a big choir here.

By MannyT

April 6, 2007 3:58 PM | Link to this

It’s a shame that you are so against the college years.

It is true that there is more money and more financial upside in your playing days to get to the top league ASAP.

At the same time, some kids are not emotionally ready to make that leap. College does a lot for allowing teenagers to be away from home and learn how to grow up. One of the several long term benefits of this is they get to meet some peers/friends that are less manipulative and exploitative of them during these years. The chances of meeting people that will be life long friends that you can trust are much higher when you are the big man on campus than when you are rich and 19 in the pros.

Sure the adults (coaches) are looking out for themselves. You get to see and hear the lessons and double talk first hand as you grow in college. Better to get that lesson from coach leaving than a shady agent/investor leaving with your cash.

Let them make good friends and develop a little as a person. Those guys from FL seem to actually be good friends. That has some value.

Would Blog-Z ditch his best friends for 5-10% less in your lifetime earnings?

By newkid

April 6, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

Good job Sekou! Hope someone sends it along to Mr. Righteous Robert Knight.

By doc

April 6, 2007 4:49 PM | Link to this

manny, it sounds real sweetand pious to go that route; the point is the kids should be free to make that decision. the issue about being emotionally ready is a cliche. most people arent emotionally ready in life for many things college or not, we could start with marrriage, having offspring and even go to the fine example that these guys with all the money who became the atlanta spirit werent “emotionally ready” for that, either.

let the individual decide if and when he is emotionally ready, no one stopped allen and gates from going out and pursuing their dreams, telling them they couldnt do microsoft until they and a degree, now did they?

blog z can make friends where ever he goes. like it or not most friendships dont last a lifetime.

By mavid

April 6, 2007 4:56 PM | Link to this

great blog sekou. really, one of your best. I can’t agree more.

The age limit is completely ridiculous and actually somewhat goes against our entire country’s belief system. In a free market, capitalistic system, why can’t an 18 year old adult (who can be drafted in the military) play professional basketball? This is actually a restriction on individual, economic freedom that just does not make sense and could probably be argues as unconstitutional (yes, i’m a political science guy). NOONE forces these teams to draft these kids. It is their free choice in a free market economy. So, shame on David Stern and the NBA for doing something so ridiculous.

And, Clyde, I personally think Rodney Stuckey will be the sleeper of this draft (can you say Ben Gordon available in late first-round??). Whoever snags him will look like a genius (guess that rules out BK trading for a pick?).

By Boomer

April 6, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

You could threaten to spread honey and fire ants on Billy Knight’s privates if he doesn’t draft Greg Oden. But he would not as long as there was even one 6-8 forward in the world.

By firehawk

April 6, 2007 6:10 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

So you are telling me that Noah, Horford, Brewer and the rest of the gang would all be as polished and proven players right now had the tried to jump straight from high school than if they played the last two years in college???

That is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever heard in my life, If your example Lebron James than I can understand the immediate jump.

Please next time you see M. Jordan, ask him if he thinks he was as good straight out of high school rather than spending 3 years at North Carolina under Dean Smith. I would put money on him saying he came out a better player and a better person.

Lay off the drugs Sekou!!!!

By Braves Fan 79

April 6, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

Sekou: this blog is stupid. I think Lebron would of benifited from some college….maybe would of made him have that killer instint that seperates good players from great players. So if the age limit is so foolish then how come all the youngest teams in the NBA suck?? aka….hawks….i guess u believe 2 much in young players thou…maybe thats why u were 2 blind to see at the start of the year that the hawks were nothing but a playoff sweep waiting to happen at best! Louis Williams would of been a big time name by now if he had went to college. Now its like….louis who?? And everyones hating on the Creighton coach who renigged on his new job. I think hes the most honorable out of alot of coaches because he put his family first and $ second. How come no one sees this fact besides me?? common pple think for yourselves….

By mavid

April 6, 2007 6:18 PM | Link to this

firehawk, that’s not the point. The point is: would Michael Jordan have been better after 3 years in the NBA or 3 years in college? The answer is that - had he gone straight to the NBA - he’d be better after 3 years in the NBA (better overall coaching, more experience, more singular focus on bball, etc). Same goes with the Florida players.

But, thats not really the point, either. The real point is what I said above: The age limit is completely ridiculous and actually somewhat goes against our entire country’s belief system. In a free market, capitalistic system, why can’t an 18 year old adult (who can be drafted in the military) play professional basketball? This is actually a restriction on individual, economic freedom that just does not make sense and could probably be argued as unconstitutional (yes, i’m a political science guy). NOONE forces these teams to draft these kids. It is their free choice in a free market economy. So, shame on David Stern and the NBA for doing something so ridiculous.

There ya go. If teams are worried about the qualities of players coming out of high school, then don’t draft them (and hope they don’t turn into Amare Stoudameire). It’s really as simple as that.

By vdunkndunk

April 6, 2007 7:00 PM | Link to this

On average, any rookie will be more prepared for the NBA after a couple of years of college than they would have been if they had come straight out of high school.

It doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ll be better college players, but it does mean that they would have better rookie seasons and be more able to actually earn their paychecks for the most part.

And it does mean that they become more marketable for the NBA. Like it or not, the NBA is a business, and therefore the NBA has its business interests to look out for. College basketball is better off with guys like Oden and Durant generating a buzz, and the NBA is better off for the same reason: marketing and buzz.

Now, someone like Durant is already a household name instead of another skinny no-name straight-from-high-school type of guy. Now fans will be rejoicing when they land Durant in the draft and they’ll be excited to see him play. More buzz, more interest, more money.

Yeah…I guy like Horford probably could have gotten drafted straight out of high school. But do you honestly think he could have made an impact? Do you honestly think he would have been earning his millions?

Basically, some NBA team would have had to burn a draft pick on him with limited information, then foot the bill for him to develop and just hope that, after two or three years, he actually turned into a player in the league. And during all those years, no one would really have any idea who he was, whereas now even casual basketball fans are going to be intrigued to see how he and Noah and the rest play in the NBA.

By mavid

April 6, 2007 7:12 PM | Link to this

I agree with some of that Vdunkndunk, but what if Horford went down with a severe injury in college and never got to make money off his skills (assuming that he solely was in college because of the age limit) How fair is that?

This restriction may favor the pockets of the NBA and the NCAA, but it is fundamentally flawed in that it unfairly restricts the economic freedom of the players.

By Wedgie Evans

April 6, 2007 7:37 PM | Link to this

Sekou, you are one of the few journalists out there who is not afraid to point out that going to college really doesn’t help these players develop as players. As many other people on this blog have commented, the age limit may help them mature mentally, make friends, etc. but it damn sure doesn’t help them improve their games, especially not with the inordinate amount of terrible coaches in NCAA basketball now. It’s foolish and wrong to force them to go to college. Obviously if they want to go to college that’s fine, but they shouldn’t be forced to.

With Bob Huggins leaving Kansas State, I’m looking forward to seeing what star recruit Michael Beasley will do — if Kansas State doesn’t let him out of his letter of intent, I wouldn’t be surprised if he played next year in the Euroleague rather than college. It’s not going to be long before an elite recruit like Beasley realizes that instead of spending a year in the NCAA playing for free against inferior competition, they could go to Europe and not only get paid a million bucks but also receive superior coaching and play against better players. It’ll only take one elite player to take the path through Europe (or maybe even the D-league) for the floodgates to open. Wouldn’t be surprised if OJ Mayo went that route either.

Props to you for telling it like it is Sekou, when journalists everywhere else are too busy fellating the age limit and the NCAA.

By morris

April 6, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this

Why wouldn’t a young up and coming coach like gillespie leave A&M for a dream job like kentucky? Didn’t tubby smith do the same thing when he left Georgia for kentucky. I don’t recall anybody disparaging tubby when he left for the bluegrass state. In fact he received accolades because he was an african american coach who had climbed to the pinnacle of college basketball. Yet according to your logic a young white coach who gets a chance at the job is a sleezy greaseball. I guess you wouldn’t leave the hawks blog for a big time basketball job with ESPN. RIGHT?

By roan st

April 6, 2007 8:07 PM | Link to this

O.K could someone please name the last great college prospect who’s career ended from a devastating injury. I hear that crap every time this argument comes up. This is a very valid argument for college football players where guys frequently have had to quit football because of injuries sustained at the collegiate level. But I personally can’t remember a great college basketball prospect whos career ended playing college ball. Can someone please give us a name and year of injury?

By mavid

April 6, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

^^ in my opinion, that doesnt really matter roan st… the hypothetical matters more in this case (and if you cant see it, im not gonna go on a long-winded explanation)

By Sekou K. Smith

April 6, 2007 9:03 PM | Link to this

Valid arguments all around, save for Morris and his race-laced diatribe. I hear the other side. I just don’t agree. I don’t think there is anything scientific that supports the stay in college and you’ll be a better pro theory. Nothing. Just like there is nothing scientific that supports my theory. Well, other than Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Jermaine O’Neal, LeBron James, Dwight Howard and on and on and on. And didn’t even mention all the international stars that have bypassed the college game for the NBA. I realize you can point out just as many players that have flourished in the NBA after college. But my point is, if you can do it either way, how can college be the end all be all? How can anyone argue that college somehow ensures more NBA success than no college? I think it’s a myth.

By Sekou K. Smith

April 6, 2007 9:22 PM | Link to this

Valid arguments all around, save for Morris and his race-laced diatribe. I hear the other side. I just don’t agree. I don’t think there is anything scientific that supports the stay in college and you’ll be a better pro theory. Nothing. Just like there is nothing scientific that supports my theory. Well, other than Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady, Jermaine O’Neal, LeBron James, Dwight Howard and on and on and on. And didn’t even mention all the international stars that have bypassed the college game for the NBA. I realize you can point out just as many players that have flourished in the NBA after college. But my point is, if you can do it either way, how can college be the end all be all? How can anyone argue that college somehow ensures more NBA success than no college? I think it’s a myth.

By An Inquiring Mind

April 6, 2007 9:36 PM | Link to this

I get a kick out of the way Sekou picks and chooses where to direct his (self) righteous indignation.

A week or two ago, he said the refs are the worst thing about the NBA, and that college refs are even worse.

Now, he’s whining and sniveling about college coaches.

I wonder why Sekou never lays into the numerous NBA players who get paid big money … and then lay down like a bunch of mangy dogs. I wonder why he never discusses the appalling lack of fundamentals in the NBA.

Could it be that Sekou is nothing more than a Scoop-id Jackson wannabe who’s more interested in being “down” with the “playas” than in telling like it is?

An Inquring Mind wants to know.

By mavid

April 6, 2007 10:44 PM | Link to this

^^ dude, there are millions of things you can “lay into”… sekou generally talks about interesting things and is one of the better bball bloggers out there

By vdunkndunk

April 6, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

My argument isn’t that you become a better pro by going to college. It’s that, on average, the same player would have a better rookie season and make a more immediate impact in the NBA after spending time in college than he would if he had come straight from high school.

Obviously, the fact that you went to college for a couple of years doesn’t mean that you’re going to be better than Kobe Bryant. No one is saying that. I’m just saying that, if Kobe had played at Duke for 2 years, he probably would have averaged 15-20 ppg his rookie season instead of only 7 ppg.

Not only that, but he would have had an enormous shoe deal right off the bat and would probably even be perceived as more of a team player just because he went to school, just because most casual fans carry that bias with them.

Of course, most of the great pro players these days didn’t go to college. But the reason for that is obvious: they had the most talent and therefore they are the ones who had the option of going pro straight from high school.

But McGrady and Garnett and Kobe and Jermaine O’Neal and many others took two or three seasons to become 15 ppg scorers, and a couple more to reach an all-star level. And in the case of guys like O’Neal and McGrady, no one really had any idea who they were outside of pro basketball junkies…Jermaine O’Neal was just a throw-in in the Dale Davis trade and then all of a sudden he took off.

It’s like Brandon Roy, for instance: if he had come into the league straight from high school, he never would have had a chance to average 16 ppg his rookie season…instead he would have been getting millions of dollars to watch from the bench.

I just think that, when all the NBA’s most talented players don’t go to college, college basketball suffers and the NBA suffers from a business standpoint. So I can see why the NBA, as a business, wants to ensure that players come into the league ready to make an impact, that they have a body of work that can be evaluated to avoid draft mistakes, that their players are more marketable, etc.

By vdunkndunk

April 6, 2007 10:51 PM | Link to this

^I don’t think college ensures NBA success. I just think it makes more business sense for the NBA, and since the NBA got the age-limit passed by means of the collective-bargaining agreement, it’s perfectly legal. Like I said, it’s a business, and I can understand why they feel like the age-limit will help the NBA from a business perspective.

By Volman

April 6, 2007 10:56 PM | Link to this

Mind, I can promise you Sekou doesn’t write ANYTHING to impress people.. It’s his job..he’s paid to do it.

If you don’t like it, turn the page in the paper.. or don’t click on his blogs on this website. The majority of us here love what Sekou has to say… and his blogs mostly start up discussion here.

come on, now.

By mavid

April 6, 2007 11:15 PM | Link to this

vdunkndunk, you’re point is well said, and is true. no doubt. my thing is, while the NBA and NCAA definately benefit from a business stand-point, the actual players (who are the real substance and driving force of these leagues) are the ones who get their choices restricted in an unfair way. An age-limit of 18 makes sense - that’s when your legally an adult and responsible for yourself. The age limit as it currently stands is straight-up not fair in my opinion.

And you can argue that players will also be “better” off by going to college (maybe they will be). BUT IT’S THEIR LIFE AND THEIR DECISION. It should not be imposed by the league commisioner or anyone else except themselves and their family. I mean, damn, does it really make sense that they lose that freedom of choice? Well it does in the sense that it financially benefits these leagues, BUT THATS IT.

By george-s-wms

April 6, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

yo’ sekou, great interview with salim.

I was rolling on the floor when you asked what he thinks about the re-intro of the leather ball. When he said he likes it better, I absolutely couldn’t get back off the floor for about 10 minutes.

For the local beat writer to ask that one for the just in case, man way to go! This is why we read your articles and blogs posts. You got some cojones man!

The only problem is this: I really like Salim the Sniper, but the whole vegan thing and the way he didn’t get it when you asked about the leather ball, well, it made me wonder about his IQ in general.

I wish all the Hawks much success in 2008, but I wish they would’ve taken a fall to the Bucks tonight. Still, Sojo is looking like the 2nd round still from last year’s draft. Maybe, that will eventually make up for the Shelden pick. Solomon really might turn into a player! Go Hawks….but wait ‘til next year!

By mavid

April 6, 2007 11:49 PM | Link to this

^^ haha, dude, read who writes the articles (it’s posted at the top). that was NOT sekou. It was a writer of the “Health” section.

By mavid

April 7, 2007 12:02 AM | Link to this

2 things:

1) All this talk that no team “blatantly” tanks is clearly disproved by the Bucks. I thought the Hawks were doing it big on the tanking, but in actuality, we probably have legitimate injuries (for the most part). Now the Bucks on the other hand have some mysterious going-ons with their injury reports. makes you say hmmm.

2) Without a doubt I have the comparison for Marvin’s potential: Rashard Lewis. His first year he barely played, so I won’t count that. His second year, he averaged about as many minutes as Marvin did his first year and averaged an unspectactular 8 points and 4 boards. The next year he averaged 35 minutes (similar to Marvin this year) and 14 points and 6 boards (a bit better than Marvin, but not by much). Since then, he’s stepped his production up every year, and now is a top player in the league. I really think Marvin will be similar. They have the same game, and the same problems (lack of aggressiveness).

But, we need some optimism right now, so think of this. In 2 years we could have a core that is very similar to:

Ray Allen (JJ) Rashard Lewis (Marvin) Shawn Marion (Smoove)

Haha, just trying to throw some positivity up in this!

By vdunkndunk

April 7, 2007 12:06 AM | Link to this

I don’t blame anyone for not liking the age limit, and I agree that certain arguments for the age limit are almost offensively paternalistic and patronizing.

But I also believe that the ownership and management of the NBA, and the current NBA players, should have a say regarding the rules of their league.

After all, the ownership, management, and current players have their own financial interests to think of, and they are the ones footing the bills and taking the financial risks and generating the revenue.

There are two sides to every story, and the 18 year-olds aren’t the only ones who should have a say regarding the constitution of the NBA.

We’re talking about a business here, and if the NBA feels there is a problem with what’s going on and decides that an age limit will improve the game, then I think they should have a right to adress that problem through the collective bargaining agreement.

By Sekou K. Smith

April 7, 2007 12:47 AM | Link to this

Faith Dawson did that vegan interview with Salim (me, I like to eat food that had parents). But I thought it was a great Q&A.

As for where I choose to spew my venom, I give as much as I take. And I never pile on anyone that doesn’t deserve it (well, almost never).

What’s written here isn’t the gospel.It’s just one man’s humble opinion on things. I’d prefer you didn’t agree with everything I said (it would get pretty boring around here if we all said the same things over and over again). But we’re all entitled to a little freedom of speech around here.

And if (inquiring mind) thinks we let NBA players off the hook around, then he or she is not reading regularly. No one escapes the wrath of this crew (anyone I don’t skewer gets it from the rest of the regulars).

Be safe this weekend and Happy Easter folks.

By Adam

April 7, 2007 2:13 AM | Link to this

I used to be on the fence about the college-pro debate. Then I came to a major university and had student athletes in my classroom. There is no doubt in my mind now - no doubt whatsoever - that if the money is there, these kids should jump at the opportunity it provides. Anyone who believes that these kids aren’t being used on the college level has little or no experience with what it is the NCAA does. They have no idea about the pressure under which these kids work or the coaches who manipulate the system and, often, the TAs and Profs who purport to teach them. And they couldn’t begin to grasp that ‘college’ for these kids is hardly like the ‘college’ to which most of us are accustomed.

I agree completely that the age-limit rule is preposterous, and is so for quite a few reasons (which have been beaten to death). I can’t speak to who benefits and who doesn’t with the rule; most of the evidence is anecdotal and, if I had to guess, there are countless examples that could be used for and against. The truth is there will never be any “science” to prove or disprove whether college ball better prepares a player for the NBA than does an immediate jump. All we have to go on is our own beliefs and quite a bit if faith.

So if it was up to me, with the experience I have with the NCAA and college-level athletes, I’d tell a kid to go pro 10 out of 10 times if the opportunity awaited him. Oden and Durant only need to look at the Livingston injury to know that their time on the court - and their ability to earn money for a game - may be precious. And I assure you that when they are in the NBA next year, none of us, or them for that matter, will be the worse for it.

By Samuel

April 7, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

Cuz,

You know I agree wholeheartedly on the college thing. I went to school with Will Clark, John Bond, Jeff Malone, Raffy Palmero. I had classes with them and I’d see them maybe twice per semester. What a joke?

It definately doesn’t make you a better player either. I’d take Norcross’ starting 5 over 90% of the teams in the “so-called” big dance.

Actually, I just caught the Salim thing. You think she really did that on purpose. If she did. She Wrong. I actually was a vegan for about 6 months. I couldn’t keep my weight up plus I like fish too much. It definately make you feel lighter. Right now I’m still on my Kosher/Halal diet since 94’. I love it.

I saw your year end awards. Pretty much on point except. How can you leave Tyrus Thomas off? Rudy Gay should be on first team over Bargnani.

I know my boy Shaq has been out most of the year but so has Yao Ming(43 games). Curry should have that spot(74 games 35min and 57%FG).

I’m ready for the playoffs. Another Ring for Shaq

By Mario Mayerhofer

April 8, 2007 12:56 AM | Link to this

When is Steve Belkin taking over the Hawks so we can have some hope ? This current management competes with the Houston Texas as the worst management in Sports. They 1) draft an unproven small forward (M.Williams) over a proven point guard (C.Paul). They draft an undersized power forward (S.Williams) when the best player in the draft was available (B.Roy) and they gave up way too much in the Joe Johnson trade. This is the best draft in ages and the Hawks will not have a draft pick.

By Mario

April 8, 2007 1:02 AM | Link to this

When is Steve Belkin taking over the Hawks so we can have some hope ? This current management competes with the Houston Texas as the worst management in Sports. They 1) draft an unproven small forward (M.Williams) over a proven point guard (C.Paul). They draft an undersized power forward (S.Williams) when the best player in the draft was available (B.Roy) and they gave up way too much in the Joe Johnson trade. This is the best draft in ages and the Hawks will not have a draft pick.