Hawks

By honest_abe

March 28, 2007 2:32 PM | Link to this

ss.. i was at the zoo on saturday too.. maybe my expectations weren’t as high as yours but i enjoyed my trip there. it’s so much cleaner than the first time i went which was 20 years ago. anywho.

the hawks can’t give up j smith. he’s indispensable. not only is he improving on the offensive end but he offers so many other dynamics. he’s an underrated passer, a decent on the ball defender and of course we all know how good he can be with help d. j smith has superstar written all over him so he can’t be let go.

chills is another guy i’d hate to see go. but it depends on what kind of money he’s worth on the market. every good team needs a player like chills on its team. he does all the little things right. but if we can get back comparable value we need to let him go. with the current situation of petty owners the hawks can’t afford to spend big bucks on a 6th man.

although i would like to keep all 3. i think marvin is the guy least valuable out of the 3. he’s a guy with tons of upside (how sick are we of that word) but all he’s shown me is an oversized 2,3. who can shoot. he doesn’t have a post up game. for a guy that stretches close to 6’10 that’s pretty sad. all he can do is curl around picks and take open face up jump shots. his defense is spotty. his handles aren’t that great. i like marvin but out of the 3 he’s the most likely person i would let go.

By mississippi

March 28, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

today’s blog is sort of related to the question I have for all the draft experts around here.

hypothetical: Hawks get the second pick. Greg Oden comes out and goes number one. Do the hawks draft Durant, who is like JJ, JS, JC, MW in a lot of ways. Do they Draft Noah, or someone else or do they trade out?

By ConyersDawg

March 28, 2007 2:46 PM | Link to this

Smith NO DOUBT! I can see him playing in t he all star game next year. You just know Smith is going to do something amazing.

The other 2 are hard to predict. The light came on for Smith and Childress to me in their 3rd and current year. Will that happen for Marvin next year? If Marvin progresses like Smith and Childress did in their 3rd year then it would be hard to not keep Marvin.

Childress is starting to play better D. Which is where I want to see Marvin improve. I have a feeling Marvin becomes a cornerstone with Smith that gets locked up for a long time.

By J. Shuttlesworth

March 28, 2007 3:33 PM | Link to this

Smoove - show him the money. Childress - wait and see another year. Marvin - wait and see another year, maybe two.

I’d also be shopping Marvin and Chill. Not that I think they’re no good, or should necessarily be traded, but there might be another team out there, or another guy in a draft that fits the Hawks better, and there might be a team out there that fits those guys better. Every trade has it’s trade-offs, and I don’t see those two as “untouchables,” or developing into stars anytime soon around here.

By Anakin Joe

March 28, 2007 3:40 PM | Link to this

Sekou, wasn’t the CBA changed before Marvin was drafted so that teams have an extra year before having to extend rookies? For some reason, I thought Marvin’s extension was 2 years removed from Smith/Childress because the owners wanted an extra year for players like Chandler, Curry and other high schoolers who were getting fat extensions despite not having proven anything.

Trade Marvin to Phoenix for Marion. Phoenix will be significantly over the cap next year and will need to deal away a high priced player. If Marion has another average post-season, he may be expendable (as opposed to Amare, Nash or Diaw). Smith and Marion would be an amazing forward duo.

Mississippi, you draft Durant and trade Marvin for a true center or above average PG in that scenario.

By William

March 28, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

So….

Am I the only one that notices that Kevin Durant is a 6’10 bad ball handling, decent jumpshooting, bad on the ball and bad passing small forward. He can score against college kids…yes. he also has a pretty decent jumper from about 20 feet. He isn’t good on the ball defensively but he is pretty good off the ball blocking shots. His ball handling is decent at best. he isn’t a great passer.

The hawks have a 6’9” small forward that has a nice jumper from 20 feet. He isn’t good on the ball defensively but will block the occasional shot and plays the passing lanes pretty well. his Ball handling is above average for his size. He isn’t a great passer.

Kevin Durant is a slightly more aggressive Marvin Williams who played in a less restrictive offense where he was able to show his entire offense (seriously, alot of people didn’t even know marvin had a jumper when he first came in the league)

Noah is a Solomon Jones with better ball handling and passing.

If the Hawks don’t get Hibbert with the Pacers pick or Oden if they land in between 1-3, then they pretty much don’t need the pick.

I have already discussed my feelings on this “real PG” thing people keep clamoring for. Especially when you have to ignore the fact that outside of the Miami Heat, the last team to win a championship with a pure point guard was the San Antonio Spurs with Avery Johnson. And before that Isaiah Thomas’s Pistons. Thats right. The last two pure point guards on championship teams are coaches now…it was that long ago.

By #21=Top 50,1stBallot

March 28, 2007 4:24 PM | Link to this

I say you extend Smoov (obvious consensus) and let the chips fall where they may with Childress. He is the type of guy who could make a good better, he’s “wasted” for that reason on the Hawks. Marvin gets one more year to see if he is extension worthy(statistically players- regardless of when entered league- usually show close to their best by then, though there are some exceptions obviously).

If we land #2 pick, then I say (forgive me) we trade it for a kings ransom. Reason is that if we had JJ, Durant, and Smoov AND Marvin, what have we accomplished. If the Celts or Griz (presumably) are interested in Marvin and 2nd overall for 1st and 2nd rds then maybe. Otherwise its all duplication of effort again. Durant is a beast, but we have what he will be in the league already- a shooting, rebounding long 6’9 player

By Anakin Joe

March 28, 2007 4:35 PM | Link to this

William, I agree that the classic PG is a thing of the past. But most quality teams do in fact have a PG who can effectively run the fast break, deny easy dribble penetration, hit the open jumper and deliver the ball to the right player at crucial times in the game. True, we don’t need a modern day Avery or Mark Jackson. But we clearly need a quality decision-maker who can make the big play (whether from a pass or shot or steal) at crunch time. Lue/AJ may hit the shot, Speedy could deliver the steal but none seem capable of doing all 3.

And you’re right, Durant does possess similar skills to Marvin. But it is that aggressiveness that separates the Amare from Wilcox. Under Woody’s coaching, Marvin may not be able to do much more than catch and shoot.

By mississippi

March 28, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this

I was sorta thinking that we don’t need durant, he’s too much like what we already have. so if we can’t get oden (i think he is staying in school) then a top three pick isn’t a big deal unless we can get something for it. My guess is that there are teams that would give us something for the rights to durant. Is there a Chauncey in the building

By honest_abe

March 28, 2007 4:57 PM | Link to this

william: maybe you can clarify what you mean by “real” pg. IMO i thought a “real” pg is someone who directs the team. aka floor generals. guys that look to get other involved before themselves. in which case, detroit’s chauncey billups is a “real” pg. miami’s jason williams is a “real” pg albeit not a very good one. san antonio’s tony parker is a “real” pg.

i don’t think the issue of having a “real” pg matters as much as having a dominant low post threat. offense has to filter down low, opposing defenses have to see it as a threat, and brings a double which opens up cutting lanes as well as open shots outside. la and miami had shaq… chicago ran things through jordon in the post… san antonio ran things through duncan… houston ran things through hakeem. bottom line. you need a quality team to win a championship but the ultimate piece a team needs is a viable low post threat. which of course the hawks don’t have.

By Fan01

March 28, 2007 5:06 PM | Link to this

Gotta keep Smoove, He is the one player on this team that could really get people to pay attention. To this young team. But we also need a real PG and C… I also think we should keep Chill he does everything. It’s to early to give up on Marvin ….

By Harry Hawk

March 28, 2007 5:08 PM | Link to this

I’d move Marvin Williams out of town and replace him with Kevin Durant in a heartbeat.

Of course, I’d also fire Mike Woodson and Billy Knight, but what do I know?

By Vol4ever

March 28, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

This just show the incompetency of the GM. The hawks decided to rebuild and he did not get the right players in the right place for the team to win. Now we are stuck with possibly not being to keep the players we have.

In the REAL business world that equates to YOUR FIRED!

By your daddy

March 28, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

Think of the worse case scenerio and that is what Billy Knight will do. I wish we had another GM. We went from bad to worse. If we get to pick in this years draft, look for us to get a Forward, even though we have Josh Smith, Josh Chilldress, Sheldon Williams, and Marvin Williams.

By Ryder

March 28, 2007 5:10 PM | Link to this

William, I see where you’re coming from but I think honest_abe is on point. Those great teams who won titles without a real PG had one of the all time greats in their position (duncan, MJ, Shaq, Hakeem) and the only reason the Pistons won the title was because they were so deep. So even if the Hawks weren’t able to get a pg this summer they need to build serious coaching to lead this team to victories.

By MannyT

March 28, 2007 5:21 PM | Link to this

As GM, it’s not personal, but it is business!

Personally, I like Chills and his hoops intangibles. But you hang out with folks you like—rarely do you get to choose to work with them.

Smith stays. Between Chills and Marvin you give up the guy that gets you the most value in return. Value is dictated by your trading partner. The same way BK would not overpay for Dampier a few years ago, you let go the guy that others will pay the most to get. Even if he turns out to be great in another system, he’s not great in your system a la Boris Diaw.

Besides, the only thing that makes this question tricky is that none of the 3 turned out to be an oversized PG or had a growth spurt left to make him a 7 footer.

PS—I am laughing all the way to the Told you so bank about Morris signing before the playoffs this season.

By hawks are cursed for trading Nique.

March 28, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

U would trade Durant if you got him? are u drunk?? Durants alot better than marvin or chill. If the hawks are fortunate enough to get Oden or Durant they should build around either player.
Maybe they can trade marvin and someone else for a true center (a young one). Either Darco, or Howard (not likely thell let him go). And i dont know how much of a upgrade Darco would be. Face it pple…the market for centers is really really thin…and unless we land Oden this franchise will never be anything but a second round playoff team at best. Yall were retarted to be saying this whole season “im glad the hawks are winning, there just young, thell grow together”….haha…of all seasons to tank this was the one. We play a team were fighting for that 3rd worst spot tonight….loose hawks loose!! Oyea if anyone wants to see a REAL team play tonight my team the Rockets play at 10pm on espn. Now thats how u build a team! U draft a dominant center….THEN u go out and get a player like joe johnson. Mutombo and Mcgrady baby!! my 2 fav players in the NBA. Iverson is 3rd.

By Wink from Lithonia

March 28, 2007 5:49 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith is a keeper only if he can reign in that crazy jump shot and go forcefully to the basket and finish. I think his real value to this team is on the defensive end of the floor. My point being is that defense is a constant that he can bring every night regardless of his point production. His average is up on offense since JJ has been out, but his efficiency is not consistent. His best games are when he fills up the stat sheet.

J Chill, has grown on me, as I believed we should have taken the other AI, but everyone can’t be a 20 point scorer. This is not J Chill’s game, and frankly the Hawks need a grunt player they can count on. This guy bring’s it every minute on the floor. I truly believe his game will expand with a quality point guard. He could get you 10+ & 8 most nights. The negative is that ugly jump shot, that now seems to fall a little more often.

As for Marvin Williams, I would move him. He is just a jump shooter. Really is not consistent going to the basket and can not take a foul & finish. His hops are not all that great as well. During his injury, we were told he would make a difference when he came back. Well that really has not materialized, and frankly I am tired of waiting on the potential. Yes he is young and yes he could develope, but we have to take that gamble and get someone in return. Let’s face it in Atlanta we have already seen someone develope after we let them go: Brett Favre was drafted a Falcon, we sent a pretty good outfielder to Oakland ( name escapes me), so I am willing to take the chance on Marvin becoming the next great thing or great Diaw for a season. While we are at it, we can package Sheldon Williams also, so we want have to deal with his contract in two years; this will allow the real draft pick from this year to get some playing time, as Solomon Jones is the better pick from this draft. Marvin is has to be the one to go!!

By Wedgie Evans

March 28, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this

Keep Josh Smith, that’s a no-brainer. $80 million over 5 years seems like a lot for him (I was thinking more along the lines of $65 million, which is what Lamar Odom got from the Lakers), but if that’s what he’s commanding on the market then the Hawks should pay him. I guess his agent would probably go for a contract similar to the max deal Andrei Kirilenko got. J-Smoove’s already one of the most versatile players in the league, and of the three he’s the only one who looks like he’ll be capable of playing inside effectively on both ends of the floor.

Childress is a solid, underrated player. In the Eastern Conference, it’s not inconceivable that the Hawks could play Chills at SF and J-Smoove at PF and be successful. However, he’s never going to be more than the third option in Atlanta. I’d be willing to give him $7 million per year, but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone else offered him more. If another team is willing to overpay for him, I’d go ahead and trade him and get value for him, but ideally I’d like to see the Hawks keep him around.

Marvin Williams has arguably the most trade value of the three, being the highest pick of the three, and probably the most polished offensive player. Problem is, he’s also the worst defender of the three, and hasn’t shown the ability to play multiple positions like Chills and J-Smoove. This is the guy the Hawks need to trade and get as much value as possible. Maybe he’ll become the franchise player everyone thought he would be, but I’d rather keep the versatile Childress and Smith over the potential of Williams. Maybe if Williams was a PG or a C instead of a pure SF, it would be worth it to keep him around.

Looking at the draft, if the Hawks get to choose between Durant and Oden, Oden’s gotta be the first choice. But if Oden’s gone and Durant’s available, you simply can’t pass up a talent like that. (We already know what you get when you pick need over talent — you get Shelden Williams). Yeah, Durant duplicates some things that the current players do, but I don’t see why the Hawks couldn’t play him at SF with Josh Smith at PF with Childress off the bench. If the Hawks end up with the #3, either Joakim Noah or Al Horford would be a good pick.

But I have one question — with the ownership situation still unresolved, will the Hawks be able to pay any of these guys? If the ownership situation was keeping the Hawks from signing mid-level players in the offseason and 10-day contracts during the season, how is it going to impact negotiations with the Hawks’ young players?

By Shane

March 28, 2007 6:42 PM | Link to this

We have indiana’s first round pick this year — QUESTION — isn’t it lottery protected?

By Shane

March 28, 2007 6:45 PM | Link to this

Has there been any indication how long the owner’s battle over the Hawks will last?

By Wedgie Evans

March 28, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

Indiana’s pick is top-10 protected. Lottery picks are from 1-14. The Hawks can get the Pacers’ pick even if the Pacers miss the playoffs.

By Shane

March 28, 2007 7:44 PM | Link to this

Thanks Wedgie. What about the Joe Johnson trade we made with the Suns? Do we get to keep the pick only if it is 1-3 ? Thanks

By hawks are cursed for trading Nique.

March 28, 2007 7:46 PM | Link to this

Philadelphia    28      
Atlanta     27      
Charlotte   26  
Milwaukee   25

this is the fight for 3rd spot in the lotto. which by the way would give us a 15.6% chance at Oden. If you didnt notice it on the other blog heres the percentages for the lotto teams to land a top pick according to record: 25%, 19.9, 15.6, 11.9, 8.8, 6.3, 4.3, 2.8, 1.4%
hopefully charlotte will heat up in this game and blow out the hawks.

oyea…please trade marvin (hopefully for jared jack) while we can still get something for him. When a teams best shooting forward shoots 26% from 3 u know the team sucks!! salims playing well tonight…i hope he turns a ankle.

By hawks are cursed for trading Nique.

March 28, 2007 7:51 PM | Link to this

haha..i just read that the NCAA is going to have students dropping basketballs out of the sky from 500 ft above. Am i the only one seeing this going horribly wrong?? Imagine a basketball hitting u in the head as your just walking down the street in atlanta….dropped from 500 ft….ouch! lol

By doc

March 28, 2007 7:55 PM | Link to this

i take umbrance with anyone who tries to make me out to be a bk supporter. with that said i think it is ironic that there are some who come on here and decry bk’s abilities to pick as we try to decide on who to keep and hear sekou who is close to many in the know say that these guys have a market, even someone who at 20 years old and would be college jr vs. a groomed 24 yr old who went four years in chills.

there is a paradox right here today. bk has done something right but not in the timely organized fashion we would think to create a team. last summer was maybe an anomaly and maybe due to the interesting ownership situation. it also explains why maybe west did what he did draft day to get rid of a winner to plug in a young gun, that being his own ownership issue.

one can go back many years, maybe ten and see there have been more hits in three years than there were in the whole previous ten and maybe even longer than that. yes, though i didnt think much of either deron williams or c paul they have proved me wrong and i really liked roy but that is all after the fact. many gm’s have done considerably worse, unfortunately the misses around here stick out very far.

to keep smash is a priority, chills has to go for a real key component say a point or you deal marvin for a guy who is a bowen type, a guy that wont look good for your fantasy team but gets you the wins and takes on and stops the other guys best offensive player or makes his life not worth living. i do NOT think joe has shown me the ability to be that guy, the STOPPER, though he tries hard and maybe too hard for what we need and expect on the other end each night. the double duty is hurting him and he needs to listen to his body as he is in the age range where you dont bounce back each night. joe is a liability on defense when he has to be the guy on offense plain and simple; marvin has shown no significant flair for defense to date, maybe by this time next year we will see something else. i still think he has great offensive capability but he as well as many others on this team needs a coach that is interested in up tempo and stops rather than some loose figure of say under 92 a night to signify a good game. that doesnt mean anything if the stops arent there especially at the end of the game and the other guy is keeping your score even lower.

did anyone mention a change in coaching philosophy yet this year? like shane asking, is there a date for a resolution on the ownership issue? no shane but i think you will hear it loudly when it does, stay tuned in. yes indiana is lottery protected to about ten but not eleven, read here i think, so maybe it is. what i would expect is it is at eleven. it is worrisome as the pacers have folded ever since tinsley’s latest run in with the law. i was hoping for a bit of a drift but they have gone way to far.

any optomiists out there screaming to win every last game as we watch indiana fold? chorus just got quieter didnt it? more pragmatists (sounds better than depression honest) here now ando, it is about time to come back in as the andro man we all love.

By doc

March 28, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

shane we lose the pick if the ball comes out greater than three for us. bk gets to draw the ball in that situation if greater than three and go over to the suns and gentlemanly give the ball to them and shake their hand. belkin will only be hurt again as it reminds him of how bk stiffed his outstretched hand after the first trial. cant say i cant feel (or not feel) for either guy under the circumstances.

By doc

March 28, 2007 8:04 PM | Link to this

i take umbrance with anyone who tries to make me out to be a bk supporter. with that said i think it is ironic that there are some who come on here and decry bk’s abilities to pick as we try to decide on who to keep and hear sekou who is close to many in the know say that these guys have a market, even someone who at 20 years old and would be college jr vs. a groomed 24 yr old who went four years in chills.

there is a paradox right here today. bk has done something right but not in the timely organized fashion we would think to create a team. last summer was maybe an anomaly and maybe due to the interesting ownership situation. it also explains why maybe west did what he did draft day to get rid of a winner to plug in a young gun, that being his own ownership issue.

one can go back many years, maybe ten and see there have been more hits in three years than there were in the whole previous ten and maybe even longer than that. yes, though i didnt think much of either deron williams or c paul they have proved me wrong and i really liked roy but that is all after the fact. many gm’s have done considerably worse, unfortunately the misses around here stick out very far.

to keep smash is a priority, chills has to go for a real key component say a point or you deal marvin for a guy who is a bowen type, a guy that wont look good for your fantasy team but gets you the wins and takes on and stops the other guys best offensive player or makes his life not worth living. i do NOT think joe has shown me the ability to be that guy, the STOPPER, though he tries hard and maybe too hard for what we need and expect on the other end each night. the double duty is hurting him and he needs to listen to his body as he is in the age range where you dont bounce back each night. joe is a liability on defense when he has to be the guy on offense plain and simple; marvin has shown no significant flair for defense to date, maybe by this time next year we will see something else. i still think he has great offensive capability but he as well as many others on this team needs a coach that is interested in up tempo and stops rather than some loose figure of say under 92 a night to signify a good game. that doesnt mean anything if the stops arent there especially at the end of the game and the other guy is keeping your score even lower.

did anyone mention a change in coaching philosophy yet this year? like shane asking, is there a date for a resolution on the ownership issue? no shane but i think you will hear it loudly when it does, stay tuned in. yes indiana is lottery protected to about ten but not eleven, read here i think, so maybe it is. what i would expect is it is at eleven. it is worrisome as the pacers have folded ever since tinsley’s latest run in with the law. i was hoping for a bit of a drift but they have gone way to far.

any optomiists out there screaming to win every last game as we watch indiana fold? chorus just got quieter didnt it? more pragmatists (sounds better than depression honest) here now ando, it is about time to come back in as the andro man we all love.

By roan st

March 28, 2007 8:48 PM | Link to this

J smith is the definitive keeper. I wouldn’t cry if both williams and childress were moved if we could balance out the roster and get good players in return. I do like childress with his blue collar work ethic and hustle but we need a new formula. As for marvin I just don’t see anything special about him. Yes he has a nice stroke but even so his shots don’t fall like they should. I just don’t see star player when I watch him play. But in J smoove’s rookie season he was doing special things like the 10 blocks against dallas and that showed us all that the kid was amazing. Then in the second half of last season he started to turn it on and thats when I knew he was the one. J smoove is the keeper folks.

By Thurston Powell

March 28, 2007 9:05 PM | Link to this

Attention Steve Smith:

Enough of the slams and insults to players who don’t have the right skin complexion for you.

Tonight it’s the Charlotte player Walter Herrman you are snickering about for his lack of “style points.”

I’ve noticed this trend before in the handful of games I’ve been able to stomach involving you and your partner with the quaking, quivering, phony delivery.

By curious

March 28, 2007 9:30 PM | Link to this

Great coaching by Woody. Is there some reason he won’t play Ivey or Este or Solomon or Slava. Why beat JS like a dead horse in a game that is over but take him out before he can get a triple double. If there was a secret poll I bet 75% of his players would want him fired.

By Fan01

March 28, 2007 9:49 PM | Link to this

Smoove tonight: 25,15,6 blocks and, 4 ast….

By Marie

March 28, 2007 9:54 PM | Link to this

Smoove is definitely a keeper!

By curious

March 28, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

When the Hawks weren’t turning it over, they were shooting only 40 percent as they lost for the 13th time in 18 games, leaving Woodson perplexed.

“Yes it’s surprising,” Woodson said. “We’ve been playing hard as a unit and for some reason I’m not getting guys who are playing positive minutes, fully committed, mainly on the defensive end. That’s where we’re struggling.”

MAYBE BECAUSE THEY DON’T RESPECT YOU

By Clyde

March 28, 2007 11:43 PM | Link to this

Fire Billy and Woody t-shirts will be in full effect Friday April 6th. Yall need to come represent wit me.

There are two things I liked about tonights game. Lorenzen Wright finally had a double digit scoring game and Josh Smith has overtaken Marcus Camby for the lead in blocked shots. Other than that it was just another a&& whippin’. When will Woody learn that Zaza and Lorenzen won’t get the job done.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By ajw

March 29, 2007 1:07 AM | Link to this

Oops! I accidentally posted these comments on the Braves blog. Anyway, Van Gundy is an idiot. Make hime coach the Hawks for 10 years, and maybe then he will have some credible lottery comments. Maybe he could trade Yao to a team with the top pick this year.

By hawks are cursed for trading Nique.

March 29, 2007 1:39 AM | Link to this

ajw: your a idiot and obviously u dont know basketball. Van gundys teams were the last time NY was good, and one of the main reasons Houston is a top team thats capable of winning a TITLE! something the hawks wont be close 2 doing any time soon. (however if we get Oden wed be a contender in about 2 years).
Van Gundys a great defensive coach and helped put together a roster full of great players and role players alike. (he was smart enough to keep Mutombo around…when the nets sorry asses wouldnt even play him).
And why is everyone on here complaining about the hawks loosing??…woody sitting back on the bench and not coaching was great 2 see…..the hawks loosing these past games has been the best thing to happen to them all season!! Ive been calling for them to stop getting meaningless wins all year! do yall not watch college basketball??? and some of u actually supported trading our 2nd round pick for anthony johnson….a TOP 2nd round pick at that ….we could of used that as trade bait to land Jack.
Owell on to a real team….Go Braves!

By MALONE

March 29, 2007 1:46 AM | Link to this

I say we need a new coach.

We just seem to have enough talent to win more games than we are.

What would Larry Brown do with these youngsters?

Maybe Belkin can afford him.

By Volman145

March 29, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

hawks are cursed for trading Nique., my eyes bleed every time I read your posts. They’re terrible, sorry.

Van Gundy’s teams were good because he came to those teams when THEY HAD GOOD CENTERS ALREADY. He went to the Knicks when the Knicks had Ewing, and he went to the Rockets when they got Yao. Enough said right there. He’s a decent coach, but he’s gotten the right hand dealt to him in most of his coaching jobs. Oh yeah, PLEASE.. I’ve asked, PLEASE… no more “the Hawks should draft a DOMINANT center like Yao and then sign a DOMINANT guy like McGrady”.. please.

Who would the Hawks get in the second round in this years draft that would come in immediately and produce? Tell us all, oh great one. I think it was a great idea for the Hawks to land Anthony Johnson.. He’s going to be good for this team.

The Hawks are not going to tank games..we’ve all been over this.. Athletes do not lose on purpose…you never go out there and compete to lose for some ping pong balls. Why DON’T you go watch the “real team”, the Braves? Nobody is making you watch these exciting Hawks.

By Stephen

March 29, 2007 9:42 AM | Link to this

Durant is a once-in-a-lifetime talent, how many freshman can you name that have dominated college basketball like this. He had one of the best seasons in college basketball, as a Freshman! The Hawks have nobody like him…period.

By SSI fan

March 29, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Why do we even talk about possible trades? Other than “trading” for free agent Joe Johnson, what significant trade has Billy Knight made for a player that is still on the roster? His trades are for back up point guards or for draft picks that he screws up. The Hawks have some good players but an awful team. The four best players (Johnson, Smith, Williams, and Childress) are either shooting guards or small forwards. If we had worked out Shelden before the draft maybe we would have found out that he is too small and too slow to be a quality power forward.

By MsDee

March 29, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

If we could get Durant, I say get Durant, move Marvin for a “good” PG or C and FIRE Woodson!! If a team wants more than just Marvin, I say add ZaZa & Batista!

By Anakin Joe

March 29, 2007 10:42 AM | Link to this

Did anyone else hear the TV broadcast team say that Woody is going to “let the players play” during this final stretch? Is that code for “tanking”?

Also, I guess Batista’s hard work against Miami didn’t earn him any minutes in future games. And I see that Solomon is still stuck on the bench while Smith & Childress get 40+ minutes.

Again, I find myself far more interested in the score of the Pacers’ games than the Hawks’ contests.

By William

March 29, 2007 10:48 AM | Link to this

To expand on what I meant about true point guards.

Chauncy Billups is a two guard, plain and simple. his biggest asset is being huge and posting up opposing point guards, forceing the team to double and getting it out to his teammates who all happen to be great passers. Most of his assist come from hitting Rip Hamilton off of curls, which honestly I could do. He is a great defensive guard though.

Tony Parker is a scorer. And thats pretty much all Tony is. He is a horrible defender, not even that great of a passer. But he can beat nearly everyone in the league off the dribble consistantly and get in the heart of your D and score at will.

And to the guy that said Jason Williams isn’t a good point guard, he is easily one of the best in the league. That is a guy that is a floor general, and you can see it more with Wade out of the lineup.

The point is, no matter what point guard you get, if he is a real, floor running point guard, you will have to take the ball out of either Josh Smiths or Joe Johnson’s hands. They are two Allstar caliber playmakers. Josh doesn’t play particularly well off the ball, but he is very effective from the top of the key driving and making things happen. Joe is very good at making things happen from the wing.

I agree they need a defender at the point and until Salim can learn not to get screen to heck and back every time someone steps out there, he can’t be truely trusted to be that.

The perfect point guard for the Hawks is someone like Chucky Atkins or Derek Fisher. Solid defenders, will hit the open shot consistantly and can get out and lead the break. And once again, Salim does all these things very well except defend. So basically what I am saying is work with Salim. you pretty much have the guy. If not for major injuries, this would have been a .500 team this year and definately in the playoffs. It probably would have been one and gone, but the makings are there. Fire Woodson and I honestly think you have 10-11 more wins on top of that.(I am sorry but the guy is a HORRIBLE coach. To have the nerve to say “I am going to play guys that will play defense and rebound” while Solomon gets another DNP after 2 blocks in 10 minutes of play the game before and 5 blocks against the Blazers, screw him)

I personally think that a point guard that commands the ball would hurt this team. Unless it was one in the Jason Kidd, Steve Nash mold, and those simply are once every blue moon players. I definately don’t see them in the league right now with any other team (maybe Sergio Rodriguiz but he is too turnover prone, mostly because he is a rookie)

By honest_abe

March 29, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this

so basically you just wrote a five page essay and you still didn’t clear up what a “real” pg is.

want to try again?

By honest_abe

March 29, 2007 11:09 AM | Link to this

William’s Definiton of “Real” pgs.

1. chucky atkins
2. derek fisher
3. jason williams..

HAHAHAHAHAH. ok i’ll stop messing with ya.. time to get back to work.

By William

March 29, 2007 12:25 PM | Link to this

Um…I said the hawks DON’T need a real point guard. Thus I named Derek Fisher and Chucky Atkins as good fits…so I said they weren’t real point guards…but you just keep enjoying your hardy laugh.

And a real point guard is a point that sets up and facilitates the offense. To do so, they need the ball in their hands to direct player place ment and movement.

Not really sure why I have to explain what a point guard is honestly. If you know anything about basketball then you know what a point guard is. A real point guards dominate the ball on offense. The Hawks need a player that is effective off the ball. Its that simple.

By honest_abe

March 29, 2007 12:59 PM | Link to this

“And a real point guard is a point that sets up and facilitates the offense. To do so, they need the ball in their hands to direct player place ment and movement”

william my friend i’m just having a good time. mostly at your expense. no hard feelings eh?

now look at what you just wrote. that is your definition of a “real” pg. well in that case, tony parker, chauncey billups, jason williams who all won championships in the past few years all fit that description. i’m just trying to point out that you are the one that is confused.

chauncey is not a shoot first pg. he looks to set up his teammates first and foremost. just because he’s big and strong and posts up smaller pgs from time to time doesn’t discount his ability to play the pg position.

as for tony parker. he is a scorer. but like you said a pg is someone that sets up other and when he’s on his game… teams will collapse into the lane when he drives because nobody can stay in front of him. drive and dish, drive and dish… that’s what he does. so once again i think he’s real pg material.

jason williams you seem to think is all that and a bucket of chicken so i wont’ go there. but you said “real” pgs don’t win championships and i thought you just said jason willimas is a “real” pg so now i’m confused. or am i? maybe it’s you that’s confused.

in conclusion, (sorry you guys have to read this crap) the only people that aren’t “real” pg’s are shooting guards that that are trapped in a pg’s body. i.e. jason terry, tyronn lue, allen iverson, salim stoudamire, damon jones all these guys look to shoot before setting up other.. the guys mentioned earlier do not fit into this category.

discussion closed. i win. heh

By Smokey

March 29, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Hawks coach has quit on the team…

By Anakin Joe

March 29, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Check-out today’s USA Today Sports section. It provides salaries for all teams and every player in the league. Key takeaway… we continue to work with the second lowest payroll (by far) in the league. The only difference between our payroll and the Bobcats (about $7M lower than the Hawks) is that we have a $12M player in JJ while their top player is around $5.5M in Gerald Wallace (who has become Smith’s kryptonite).

While better draft picks would have resulted in a better and more balanced roster, an NBA team with a payroll below $50M must enjoy perfect health across its top 10 players to be able to compete for a playoff position. If nothing else, a higher payroll should provide better depth when the injuries inevitably occur. Sure, we had more than our fair share of injuries this year, but our bench of relative newbies like Batista, Salim, Shelden, Solomon and Ivey also added to yet another horrific season.

By doc

March 29, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

FOLLOW THE MONEY! RIGHT A J?

By Anakin Joe

March 29, 2007 2:22 PM | Link to this

Doc, I’m sick about this team. Sure, the roster is bad. But when you sit down and watch games, you see how bad Woody is as coach. I’m guessing that we could have easily won 5-8 more games this season with a “real” coach. No, not enough for a playoff run, but enough to make fans believe that we’re on the right path. I’m not even clear about that now. I feel like we’re on a treadmill going no where. Ownership is cheap. GM is incompetent. Coach is ineffective. Meanwhile, I have to listen to ‘Nique and Bernie Mullen blow smoke up the fans’ butts about Smith’s development and JJ’s All Star status. JJ ain’t no All Star if Pierce, Kidd and/or Redd are healthy. Smith has improved, but he’s still good for too many bone-headed plays every game. Ugh, it is frustrating to the nth degree.

(Whew, that feels a little better).

GO BRAVES!!!

By honest_abe

March 29, 2007 2:34 PM | Link to this

hahah nice aj! looks like we’ve all become like ando! another five game losing streak will do that to you.

By William

March 29, 2007 2:41 PM | Link to this

If you want to say you won. LOL.

But my original statement was “Especially when you have to ignore the fact that outside of the Miami Heat, the last team to win a championship with a pure point guard was the San Antonio Spurs with Avery Johnson. And before that Isaiah Thomas’s Pistons.”

You see, Jason Williams plays for the Miami Heat.

But if you are really going to argue that Tony Parker and Chauncy Billups are true point guards, I don’t know what to tell ya. Parker is about as much of a point guard as Gilbert Arenas. If he was 6’8” and played the EXACT same way, no one would even think he was a point guard. There is more to being a pure point than being shorter than every else. Jacque Vaughn is the more pure point on that team…he just isn’t very good.

the same way Detroit doesn’t have a pure point. Lindsey Hunter and Chauncy Billups are both converted two guards that were too small to play that position. And they play like two guards who happen to bring the ball up the court.

By Anakin Joe

March 29, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

Abe, yeah the 5 game losing streak certainly doesn’t help. But what drives me crazy is seeing bench warmers like Batista and Solomon play well during that blue moon when they get time, and then get restricted back to the pine the very next game. Is there any doubt in anyone’s mind that if JJ were to come back, Salim would return to his 5 minutes per game?

Guys like Ando used to talk about drafting a legit PF or a combo guard or a true low-post defender. And at times, it appears those guys may have been wearing a Hawks uniform. Batista looked like a bigger Varejao against the Heat and probably fouled Shaq harder than anyone this season. Could he be a low-post enforcer? I don’t know. Solomon has shown flashes of being a dynamic shot-blocker and energy guy. Salim (who admittedly is one of my favorites), has shown both the good and bad of being an Eddie House type player. But when you’re amongst the worse offensive teams in the league, how does this guy languish on the bench for the majority of the season? (Not to mention he is playing better defense and is showing some interest in passing the ball).

At this point, I think I’d still be annoyed if Smith, Marvin and Childress were getting 40+ minutes and the Hawks won 6 in a row. It is past time to give Solomon, Batista and even Shelden at least 20 minutes/game for the remainder of the season. Why do we need to see Lorenzen anymore this season? Shut down Zaza too. Run Salim as the PG for the rest of the year and shut down Lue and AJ. Give me Salim and Ivey for the remainder of the year. And Batista/Solomon/Shelden manning the low post.

If we didn’t evaluate those guys when we were silly enough to think we were competing for a layoff position, then what’s the excuse now?

By doc

March 29, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

a j a reprise from yesterday, late:

i said a few months back that the kid gloves would come off after these guys had a chance to show themselves. they have sporadic moments of brilliance but arent focused for individual games much less the long term. as a doc in the o. r. i could not come with it when i wnated to or hold stuff back on one end to do it on the other end and still had a family to go home to. true professionals are that, they bring it on both ends daily, full time.

this organization is terrible from the top to the bottom. no one should not be held unaccountable for this sorry season starting with the owners as they played there little power games even BEFORE there was ever wind of a trade involving said joe johnson. as a fan we are trapped and sorta like sekou and his delemna that moreeese didnt understand of whether or not to tell it like it is. the only way to truly protest is to not buy a ticket and not show up. guess what that gets? a hawks franchise in las vegas. soooo, we continue to fabricate a solution here every day at our little liars table down at the coffeee shop.

sad thing is there was no difference in how the team looked on their own last night or with a coach. this suggests the guys play their own game anyway and have not learned to be team players yet nor to listen to the coach. truly like woody but i too have tired of his cliche statements to sum up a game. even when he shoulders the blame it sounds so pre-recorded, like the comment about we wont win until we learn to rebound and play defense … who was supposed to teach them?

glad you feel better.

By doc

March 29, 2007 3:08 PM | Link to this

a j a reprise from yesterday, late:

i said a few months back that the kid gloves would come off after these guys had a chance to show themselves. they have sporadic moments of brilliance but arent focused for individual games much less the long term. as a doc in the o. r. i could not come with it when i wnated to or hold stuff back on one end to do it on the other end and still had a family to go home to. true professionals are that, they bring it on both ends daily, full time.

this organization is terrible from the top to the bottom. no one should not be held unaccountable for this sorry season starting with the owners as they played there little power games even BEFORE there was ever wind of a trade involving said joe johnson. as a fan we are trapped and sorta like sekou and his delemna that moreeese didnt understand of whether or not to tell it like it is. the only way to truly protest is to not buy a ticket and not show up. guess what that gets? a hawks franchise in las vegas. soooo, we continue to fabricate a solution here every day at our little liars table down at the coffeee shop.

sad thing is there was no difference in how the team looked on their own last night or with a coach. this suggests the guys play their own game anyway and have not learned to be team players yet nor to listen to the coach. truly like woody but i too have tired of his cliche statements to sum up a game. even when he shoulders the blame it sounds so pre-recorded, like the comment about we wont win until we learn to rebound and play defense … who was supposed to teach them?

glad you feel better.

By Tyger

March 29, 2007 3:25 PM | Link to this

Wow! What difference a week makes!!! Last week, I was sure the Hawks were outta the running for the playoffs or any draft picks.

Lo and behold, we’re back in the running for both picks and only a minute improvement over last years’ horrific record.

35 wins feels like a fool’s bet right now, even 32 wins sounds far fetched. But since we sunk so low, so late, I hate to say tank b/c win have the Hawks really been ever to dictate when they win or lose?

Those picks are looking better and better everyday, with the Bucks coming twice - and coming off another sound whipping in Charlotte, we’re perched to catch everybody except Memphis and Boston.

And with every bottom feeder losing as much and as fast as they can, Indy may be left on the outside lookng in. The last game against them will be very, very interesting.

Hawks and young stallions would be smart to follow the paths of LBJ and Wade. Sign 3yr extensions instead of the full 5yr.; Get paid now, while allowing the team to continute to build; and then get paid again in a couple years.

It makes much more sense than signing all three guys to 5yr. max contracts when none of them deserve them yet. It cant be justified now, winning only 27 games per year, and being embarrassed every other night.

Josh deserves a healthy raise that makes him the second highest paid player next to JJ. Chill and Marvin are running a close race for 3rd, 4th. But none of them can expect extensions greater or equal to that of LBJ, Wade or Anthony. They arent All-stars.

I can forsee Josh Smith $30M/3yrs; Chill $24/3yrs.; and Marvin $24/3yrs. getting second-tier extensions like Murphy and Dunleavy, in the $8M-$10M. Thereby allowing the core to stay intact.

I think they actually trade Shelden this summer, which should free some salary as well.

By brandon

March 30, 2007 4:11 PM | Link to this

keep josh smith I really dont care to much about the others