Hawks

By ray

March 12, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this

My main worry is who Billy will pick in the draft. ‘Cause I have no real reason to believe that he’ll be gone before then. And the question will be: will we get someone who’s good enough at what he does to MAKE the coach play him (and at least eventually start in the same season) or will we get another one that’s SUPPOSED to be a major contributor, but remains on the bench until half the starting lineup is out with injuries?

By ahhyess

March 12, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

it doesn’t matter when we pick, or who is available, because DA Billy Knoght will pick someone who is taller than 6’6” and shorter than 6’9”, someone who can play more than one position but can’t play one position well, someone with oodles of athletic ability but limited court awareness and anticipation.

until we get a good coach, we can’t win. until we get a decent GM, we won’t have a good coach. until we get some owners with a clue, we won’t have a semi-intelligible GM.

everyone should go: woody (first and foremost), DA BK, and the spirit group. essentially, get rid of everyone but the equipment staff.

i wonder how a group (spirit) that is so incompetent ever made enough money to be in this position in the first place.

PLEASE: if we can’t get a new gropu of owners, can we please, please get a coach with a clue and a GM with a brain????

josh smith for president.

By Andrew

March 12, 2007 12:32 PM | Link to this

It’s important to note that we aren’t even getting a pick unless it’s in the top 3, so most of this conversation which focuses on the Hawks is moot anyway

By honest_abe

March 12, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this

ray: great post on the previous blog..

i still like horford better than noah.

march madness has arrived and our beloved hawks refuse to die. the biggest thing i’ve noticed, ray actually pointed this out as well, is the fact that woody has been forced into actually “coaching” during games. having a healthy jj we all know give this team the best chance to win. but maybe it made the entire team including woody too relient on him to deliver in the clutch. it made woody lazy and scared to play other players to try different player combinations, to try giving players different minutes based upon the opponent. woody is giving some of his guys chances to play and it is starting to pay off.

yup been noticing indy’s demise as well. if o neal is out for a prolonged period of time they dont’ seem to have much of a chance to win many games. the pacers are still made up of some questionable characters and without the one player that makes them automatically a contender in the east, they are relegated to being a bunch of under achieving, injury prone, losers.

we’re starting to see the beauty of having a pg that can actually play teh position.

i don’t want ot jinx the team because i always seem to.. especially after a few wins .. but the rest of the schedule looks fairly soft… 4.5 game back with only 18 left. playoffs?? unlikely. but it sure is good to see this team respond after their best player got injured..

doc have a great trip!

By Anakin Joe

March 12, 2007 1:05 PM | Link to this

Andrew, we have Indiana’s draft pick from the Al Harrington trade. It is top 10 protected and currently sits around #17 (but improving with each Indy lost). So, no, it is not moot. The Hawks could potentially have 2 picks in the top 15 selections (unlikely but possible).

By ScoobySnacks

March 12, 2007 1:23 PM | Link to this

I’ll be watching players that could (God-willing) end up in Hawks uniforms. With that Indiana pick being our best chance, that means we are probably talking about guys like Hakeem Thibet (check spelling) of UConn.

By Anakin Joe

March 12, 2007 1:24 PM | Link to this

Volman, Indy’s pick is top 10 protected. So since the “lottery” picks are 1-14, yes, we could have more than 1 entry in the ping-pong ball drawing.

By Anakin Joe

March 12, 2007 1:35 PM | Link to this

Abe & Ray, I personally have no confidence that Woody has learned his lesson. But it is amazing to see what guys can do when they are allowed to play through their mistakes. Salim and Shelden played for HOF type coaches, prominent programs and in “big boy” conferences. They do know how to play this game. But when they get yanked after the first mistake, they learn to become tentative and too deliberate. I have heard mention on Monta Ellis as being a miss in the draft a few years back. I’m fairly confident that he would not have received the type of freedom from Woody that enjoys from Nellie. I’m not taking away from his game, but it takes a certain type of coach to allow a young gun-slinger like Ellis to perfect his craft on the court, and Woody’s not that type of coach.

Also, I’d be satisfied if Woody would just use this as proof that he can in fact give JJ a good 4-5 minutes of rest in the second half of ball games. Sit him down with 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter and bring him back with 10 minutes left in the 4Q. Same for Smith (but not at the same time as JJ is sitting). Shelden, Salim and Solomon have proven that when sent out there with confidence, they can contribute to this team’s success, even in the second half.

Damn, I’m loving what Zaza is doing with AJ featuring him in the half court sets.

By mykhalc

March 12, 2007 1:53 PM | Link to this

RAY, nice post on the previous blog.

JOE, good points as usual. my point ALL ALONG has been that these cats KNOW who’s capable and who they are flowin’ with on the court and who they are not!! it’ NO MYSTERY TO THE PLAYERS!!! WOODSON is the one who is slow to realize what needs to be done and when!!! thus, as RAY pointed out, it NO coincidence that MARVIN said what he said about SOLO and chose ‘other’ words to describe SHELDEN’s contributions!!??!!! the players KNOW!!! PERIOD!!!

the best thing this club can do NOW is to cut ties with SPEEDY at the end of the season!! thru no fault of his own(probably?) he CANNOT cut it!! he IS NOT the player the HAWKS need nor the one they thought they were goin’ to get!! AJ runs the offense soooooo much better, LEADS and TAKES CHARGE!!!! HE IS WHO AND WHAT WE THOUGHT SPEEDY WOULD BRING!!!! plus he brings the added versatility of playin’ the 2!!! SALIM count AJ as the MAIN reason you’re able to see more burn!! make the most of it!!!

By The Flash

March 12, 2007 1:59 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I ain’t so sure about Noah, and here’s why. He plays for Florida, and they have the best starting five I’ve seen in some time. He can be a bit player on that team, and probably is no more than the fourth, possibly fifth best at his position.

The guy who intrigues me on that team most is Brewer. The kid is real long for a three, defends as well as any 3 I’ve seen, can shoot the ball, is always active and has a great sense for the flow of the game. He runs and jumps and is sneaky strong.

Green is a terrific point guard, who has more size and strength than any of the other speedy point guards around in the college game. And, the white kid, he’s shooting over 65% from behind the arc, and does not make misstakes. As a shooting guard, there are plenty who are flashier, and who show going to the basket much better, but, if you are building a college team with talent all over the court, especially at the one and three, with the speed and attack the basket abilities that Green and Brewer display, Humphrey is a stone cold killer to have on your team.

And, Horeford is a terrific, if slightly undersized, big. Smart, amazingly athletic, competative, unselfish, and, did I mention, oh so strong.

So, what do we really know about Noah? I’m not sure. On offense, with someone absolutely having to follow Humphrey and stay with him way far from the basket, way, way, far from the basket, like all the time; with Green having great range and accuracy from behind the arc too, and with his being an excellent decision maker and penetrator, with Brewer having a terrific slashing and mid-range game, and Horeford requiring a constant defensive presence, even Thinkingman could find a way to find people when catching it inside.

Look, if you get it in close and are being played even up, you have to be able to beat your man. So, how could Noah not be a good passer in such an offense. He gets it with a single defender on him; he has to be able to create himself as a threat and draw some attention from somebody who is way out of position to be giving it, and who he can see coming from a mile away; he can see whatever little rotations the other coach comes up with. If he is confused, Billie takes him out, brings that other monster in, explains things to him, gives Noah a chance to survey what’s going on, and bing.

So much for his passing ability. Now, what about the D. Look, if you have nothing to do on offense, you can play some defense. And, it isn’t like he’s doing it alone. They have at least four excellent from court defenders. Brewer guarding the three, with his range and length, Horeford, the first big off the bench, and Noah.

I’d wait to see him in the combines before I’d take him no. 3. Last year, Hibbert ate him up.

BTW, you want a powerful, if a bit undersized 4, keep an eye on Mr. Green from Georgetown. Now there is a guy who plays a game you could love.

By bravo papa

March 12, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this

Look guys unless by some miracle the hawks land oden we should not draft anyone. All picks should be traded away. We are already the youngest team in the league and anyone we draft won’t be able to get us to the next level. The best thing for this team would be luke ridinour and a shot blocking rebounder to play center. Hey woody if you’re reading play Salim ahead of Lue. Lue is hurting the team with is injured play.

By Volman

March 12, 2007 2:39 PM | Link to this

awesome, thanks Anakin for clearing that up!

By James Adams

March 12, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this

What are the chances of the Hawks getting kevin Garnett next year?

By D Ellis

March 12, 2007 3:31 PM | Link to this

I have been saying that for the last 16 months…..trade anything for KG…excpet J. Smith…and Joe Johnson….trade the farm….we need a big like No other team in the league!!!!

By Samuel I AM

March 12, 2007 3:57 PM | Link to this

Sekou when you get a chance and it is allowed. Give us an update on our leader Joe Johnson. We all like to have him back of course. Right now is health is more important than anything. We all want to know if he is doing well and we send our best wishes to him to make a full recovery.

By Anakin Joe

March 12, 2007 4:12 PM | Link to this

An excerpt from Hollinger’s blog today. he’s one of the few (if not only) ESPN contributor who recognizes that Hawks as an NBA team. Of course, it helps that he lives in Atlanta. The good news here is that in order to beat a mediocre team, you can’t be a bad team. So we must have raised our level of play in the past 3 games. That’s my argument and I’m sticking to it.

Trey (ATL, GA): No Joe Johnson and Coach Woodson discovers there are more than 7 players on his team. Any thought of Josh Smith in the Most Improved discussion?

John Hollinger: I think the opponents had as much to do with this win streak as the Hawks, to be honest. Three homes games against mediocre teams, and Washington totally mailed in that second half. As far as Atlanta players, you mention Smith, but to me it’s been Zaza that’s really stepped it up minus Joe. BTW, tomorrow we get to see two of the East’s hottest teams — Hawks vs. Sixers!!! Set up the Tivos now.

Bill(atl): John, do you see the Hawks dealing one of their 86 small forwards for a proven point this Summer ? Seems, they are a distributor away from contention.

John Hollinger: Atlanta will chase one in free agency first. I expect they’ll make a run at Billups and, presuming he turns them down, then focus on Mo Williams.

By Volman

March 12, 2007 4:23 PM | Link to this

Why does everyone want Garnett?

The guy can play…he’s very good. We know that.

How old is he? Seems like he’s atleast over 30. Isn’t he in the Anthony Johnson range? (haha).

I know the guy is really good, but I don’t know if he’s worth giving up SO MUCH TALENT for a guy who has used up a lot of his prime already.

If the Hawks were to land him, would Garnett even be a center? He seems to love playing the 4 position, where he can sit outside and shoot jumpshots. Don’t we need a bruiser/presence down low instead of someone who will leak out for jumpshots?

I don’t know. Somebody point me in the right direction if I’m wrong!

By Mike

March 12, 2007 4:28 PM | Link to this

I agree Sekou. I think both of those kids posses the talent and skill to play at the next level. ESPN and NIKE for all their exploits, they do a great disservice to the game of basketball. They focus more on the individual play instead of the team play. That’s why it so easy for people to forget what Joe means to the Hawks. Joe is about winning games not individuals stats. Noah is the same type of player. Guys like that are never considered to be elite players. People get hooked on fancy numbers and high flying dunks. Oden seem to be a throw back from the old days, he a great team player like Noah. KG had a monster dunk over the Hawks whole team, yet they still lost. No disrespect to the Big Ticket, because I would love to have’em in a Hawks uniform any day. My point is in today’s NBA quality guys like Noah are always overlooked. If the Hawks are fortunate enough to get a top pick in the up-coming draft, there should be a quality big for them to select. I really like the kid Hartford too.

I think these young Hawks have decided to take control of their own destiny, and let the naysayer’s and expert figure out why they’re still fighting when they have every reason to fold.

By Jamal

March 12, 2007 4:30 PM | Link to this

Yes, trade JJ for KG. It is going to take a major move to get this team going. JJ is exactly like Michael Redd in Milwaukee. A good player, but not a franchise player. Do you see how the Hawks have played without him. It is not like he makes a HUGE difference on this team. NOW, KG would make a huge difference. Grow some balls and make a major move.

Oh yeah, Sekou…. what happened to your blog about Noah and Horford 2 weeks ago. YES, THIS DRAFT IS LOADED WITH TALENT.

By Harry Hawk

March 12, 2007 4:40 PM | Link to this

KG would bring a lot more credibility than anything else. That’s why some Hawks fans would give up an arm and a leg for him. That’s why some people were clamoring for AI. The Hawks haven’t had a true “star” since ‘Nique. As good as Joe Johnson is, he’s not a “star”. Of course, if you had Garnett and Joe Johnson on the court at the same time (and managed to keep Josh Smith out of the Garnett trade), you’d have a playoff team for years to come. It’s easy to find point guards who’d want to play with those guys. Assuming that Zaza and Marvin would be a part of the deal (along with draft picks), the Hawks would just need to find a bruiser in the middle to play center. KG is a much better fit than Iverson, so I’d be excited if a trade were to happen, which, of course, it won’t.

By honest_abe

March 12, 2007 4:42 PM | Link to this

kg is a great talent. the guy is a solid 20&10 guy.. he rebounding is better than avg and his defense is also pretty good. having said that, is he worth giving up everyone in order to get him? no.

kg is no longer a top 5 talent. shoot. in fact he’s not longer a top 10 talent. if you were going to name the top 10 players in the league would you add kg to the list? i wouldn’t and here’s why.

1. he’s soft. kg is damn near 7 ft tall with crazy hops and he spends most of his time on the court around 15 feet away from the basket. he avoids the bumping and physicality with the play that comes down on the blocks. he rebounds very well. but with that size and athleticsm he should be avging 5 more.

2. he’s not a #1 option. as great as kg is and for all the intangible assets he brings. he’s not the guy that you can rely on with the game on the line. he doesn’t have any great offensive skills which allow him to thrive in this type of game setting.

3. he doesn’t dominate like he should/could. this is what kills me about kg. he has all the tools to be like a barkley. if not even more dominant than barkley. but barkely would get dirty with you. he didn’t mind scrapping with you down low. he would outmuscle you as well as outhustle you. kg puts up better than avg #’s night to night. but he won’t ever win a championship unless he plays 2nd fiddle to someone else.

the ten guys i would take over kg? 1. lebron 2. kobe 3. dwade 4. dirk 5. nash 6. dwight howard 7. tim duncan 8. amare stoudamire 9. yao ming 10. josh smith heh j/k … chris bosh

By Anakin Joe

March 12, 2007 5:00 PM | Link to this

Other teams are able to offer FAR more than the Hawks to get KG. Expiring contracts, proven young stars, draft picks, etc. Saying “trade for KG” without acknowledging that there would be a dozen other teams making an offer to the Minnesota GM is just foolish. Not to mention that if KG has any influence (and my guess is that McHale would at least try to appease any trade demands), why would he go from one loser to another team that is struggling for respectability? We know Chicago would offer a lot for KG. If you had another 4-5 productive years left, would you rather go to Chicago or Atlanta? If you’re McHale, would you rather choose from Chicago’s line-up or Atlanta’s? Okay, can we stop the KG to Atlanta discussions now?

A big. We need a big. Philly has a big. Portland has 37 bigs. Milwaukee has a big. Orlando has a big’um. And none of those teams are likely to be in the playoffs. Washington gets less production from their bigs than we get from our bigs. They’re playoff bound. Who’s Toronto’s amazing center? (No, Bosh is a perimeter-oriented PF). They’re going to win their division. A big is not what is was in the Ewing/Admiral/Hakeem days. Primarily, we need a upgrade in talent, more experience and a better coach (and coaching staff). And if we get a perfect big and PG somewhere along the way, that would be great.

By Ken Strickland

March 12, 2007 5:02 PM | Link to this

If we don’t get extremely lucky with the Phoenix pick, and the Pacers continue freefalling, and secure a top 10 lottery pick, we won’t have a 1st rd pick to screwup this yr.

By mykhalc

March 12, 2007 5:05 PM | Link to this

JAMAL, put down the pipe man!!LOL i was waitin’ for someone to come out with that argument!!

JJ is the ONLY player, until of late, that KNOWS what it takes for a TEAM to win (and LUE)!!! what you are seein’ is the OTHER players startin’ to play and know what it takes as individuals to bring it nitely and how THEIR individual play is the make or break of this team!! JJ knows how to play in a system that is unselfish!!! he IS NOT lookin’ to be an AI (the old AI) type of player. he is lookin’ to be part of a UNIT that produces positives stuff EVERYTIME they hit the floor!!! he DOES NOT WANT others to watch him work!! that’s not his M.O.!!! he’s a team player, first and most of all!!!

NOW hopefully the rest of the team is findin’ out what it takes to be that kinda UNIT nite in, nite out!!! and again hopefully, their play will carry over when he returns!!

and to be clear, i’m NOT sayin’ JJ DOES NOT have his own stuff to work on!! sure he does!! BUT KNOWIN’ HOW TO PLAY TEAM BALL AIN’T ONE OF ‘EM!!!! HE’S GOT THAT KNOW HOW AND EXPERIENCE!!!

By JHAWK

March 12, 2007 5:15 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith is the most improved player in the league(remember we used to cringe when he did anything other than dunk.)Also best overall player on hawks (includingJ.J.). Bet he’s laughing at that “NBA Analyst” that said he would be the biggest bust of the draft and to think we drafted josh childress 11 spots higher. Note to coach woody: have more faith in salim pure shooter and great scoring option besides Joe and Josh if he doesn’t get consistentmin. will go somewhere else and be a star.

By Harry Hawk

March 12, 2007 5:26 PM | Link to this

Jay Bilas does a good job with the college game. My guess is that he’d heard about Josh Smith’s attitude and figured he’d be a bust. However, to say it in front of a live audience and really embarrass a kid in front of the world…sounds like The Weasel didn’t teach him many manners up in Dookie-land. Fortunately for the Hawks, Josh has been able to keep his attitude in check most of the time and has really improved his game the last two years.

By Tyger

March 12, 2007 5:37 PM | Link to this

What pick? Atlanta has no picks. Phoenix gets our pick and Indy, sinking faster than the Titanic, intends on keeping theirs, top 10 protected, so what pick are we talking about???

Noah is going to be a great player, who transcends the game, similar to Jsmoove. When is the last time you saw a 7fter dribble the whole court with speed and enough agility to finish with the left???

He may not have a jumper outside of the paint, but thats ok, he wont be suckered into taking 20fters like our bigs do.

More likely, we hopefully, get involved in some trade and secure a pick later in the draft.

There sits Morris Almond of Rice who avgs. 30ppg. And yes, he’s another wing, but if Shelden isnt proof enough, you dont pass on talent for role players.

If we get a chance to secure a prolific scorer, we get him and let free agency and trades sort out the rest.

By Mike

March 12, 2007 5:59 PM | Link to this

Guys don’t get it twisted, any team in the NBA who love to have the Big Ticket. I was crying for the KG trade two seasons ago right after we got Joe. At the time I had envisioned JJ, J-Smoove, and KG. But let’s be real at this point in KG’s career, he’s only going to a team where he can win a championship. The Hawks would have to give up to much to qualify. It’s certainly going to take more than Joe. You’re looking at three of your best players minimum. He would be right back where he was in Minnesota. Were that not the case, you have seen KG, Gasol, JKidd, and VCarters ship out before this trade dead-line. GM are demanding a lot for their veteran super stars, wouldn’t you? They know it’s a shortage of players in the league that can take you to a championship.

Now if we miss out on Oden and got Durant than we can pull that trade off. We would only have to give up two of our young guns with Durant. I think that would work for the TWolves and KG. If not we could trade for Andrew Bynum of the Lakers and one of the young guns. That’ the key for the Hawks. If they don’t get a top pick, don’t shouldn’t rush into something sounds good, keep building on to what you get. You got a great nucleus of young talent. Be smart. Let the other teams initiate the big trade for KG.

Despite what’s being said about Joe, every team in the league would love to have a JJ on their team. Ask the guys in Phoenix?

By Harry Hawk

March 12, 2007 6:15 PM | Link to this

If the Hawks somehow got lucky enough to keep their own pick this year and picked Durant in the draft, they wouldn’t trade him. The guy’s too good.

By GatorHater

March 12, 2007 6:23 PM | Link to this

Yes, Joe Johnson is a good player. He is not a FRANCHISE player. The Hawks are going to have to make some major moves to get “that player” to take them to the next level. I say trade JJ and whoever for that #1 pick. Durant and Oden are those players that come along once every 10 yrs. Do whatever it takes to get one of those guys.

By roan st

March 12, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

Abe, your #2 point on KG is what I have been saying for years. The guy has never been able to take over games like the great ones do. After his first few years in the league many thought KG was going to be a bird or magic type talent that would lead his team to multiple championships. However, he just never developed into that type of mega superstar and his teams have suffered early round playoff exits because of his inability to dominate. People continue to make excuses for him about not having talent around him and in the last few seasons that is probably true. But minnesota has had some pretty damn good teams as well and they failed in the early round of the playoffs because garnett failed to take over down the stretch( ala jordan). He is now over 30 and no way would I give up the farm for him but he would still command a pretty good package. Minnesota better trade him now if they want to get something good in return.

By JHawk

March 12, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this

Please, Noah is overrated trade the pick unless the pick is guaranteeing us a shot at Olsen or Durant after that every pick is a reach what you can get at 3 you can get at 21. besides taurean green will make a better pro he has all around game great ball handling skills.but we all know florid players don’t pan out david lee/ anthony roberson. hawks need experienced point guard.Go Dawgs..sickem.

By mykhalc

March 12, 2007 6:34 PM | Link to this

EVERY YEAR, EVERYBODY FORGETS THAT THE LEAP FROM COLLEGE TO PRO IS ABOUT A 3 YEAR CLIMB!!!! DON’T CARE WHO THE PLAYER IS!!! ODEN will contribute quicker than DURANT but he’ll still suffer and get abused nitely the first year!!!

that’s HAWKS fans for ya…HURRY UP AND WAIT!!! should be the motto around here!!! everyone’s ALWAYS COMPLAININ’ about losin’ BUT ALWAYS sooooooo ready to cast their faith in ANOTHER COLLEGE player…the next GREAT ONE!!! you cats kill me!!!

By the hawks r cursed for trading Nique

March 12, 2007 6:35 PM | Link to this

Trading our all picks away is a terrible idea…..we still have a shot at the 3rd most ping pong balls in the draft….Go Hawks…loose loose loose…..Get Oden, then with that indi pick grab a top pt guard….that guy from texas a&m is pretty impressive…and clutch!

By mykhalc

March 12, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

NOAH is more NBA ready than any of ‘em!!! WHY??? ‘cause his game DOES NOT depend on scorin’ nor offense!! he’ll get on the court before DURANT on most NBA teams today!! maybe not ODEN, but he’ll have gotten more PT than ODEN by the end of the year!!! yep, i said it!!! DURANT will get abused like any other rook next year!!! his body is NOWHERE NEAR READY!!!! yep, i said that too!!!!!

By Samuel

March 12, 2007 7:10 PM | Link to this

Cuz,

I’m with you on Noah. I thought he would have been a top 3 pick last year. I definately think he is this year.

This Florida team has the best starting 5 in a long time and Noah is the leader. The guy’s a flat out winner. He actually reminds me of a taller version of David Lee. Not a great shooter, but will get his points. You can’t go wrong with either he or Horford but i’d lean toward Noah at this point. I also love Brewer. A definate first rounder if not lottery pick himself.

I look foward to this tourney to find the diamonds who are out there. I love it.

By mavid

March 12, 2007 7:30 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, i agree, for most college players there is a 2-3 year adjustment period

BUT, there are some who are exceptions

lebron james perhaps. shaq was pretty dominant too his first year.

i think oden is pretty ready to go (he has the NBA body and skill-set… is dude really 18??? i’d like to see that birth certificate!)

Durant is way more ready than marvin was. Now, he still has issues with his body needing to develop and fill out, BUT I think he can already average 18-20 ppg and 7 rpg in the NBA. Once he hits his prime, bump that to high 20s ppg and 10 rpg.

my point is, neither of these guys will need more than a year to be dominant in the NBA.

Now, players like Marvin, Brandan Wright, Julian Wright, etc… that’s a different story. They need some time.

By Mike

March 12, 2007 7:38 PM | Link to this

I think mykhalc is right on point. These kids coming out of college posse great talent, but they still need time to develop. You’re expecting 19 and 20 year old kids to come in and dominate the NBA. There are always one or two special kids that make the transition. But how often does that happen. Durant will struggle mightily if he goes to a team that needs a dominate post player. He’s not built for banging. Yeah most of these kids can score, but in the NBA you got to be able to score and play defense. That’s where they struggle. If BK takes the best big man available when it’s our time to draft, he will have improved the Hawks. I think Oden and Durant are special talents. But just like every draft there will be a kid that everybody overlooked that will come in and make a huge impact.

By roan st

March 12, 2007 7:58 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, I have to totally disagree with you on durant. Obviously you have never watched this guy play. The kansas head coach this morning said that he is the best college freshman that he has ever seen( and yes that includes michael jordan). He had 37 points/ 10 boards/ 6 blocks in the big 12 championship game against kansas. The meeting before he scored 20 points in the first 12 minutes of the game and the kansas coach admitted that his team was focused on shutting the guy down. Durant is one of those players that only comes around every decade or so. I’m predicting he will eventually surpass guys like dwade, melo, and possibly even lebron once he gets ready for prime time. This dude is really special and not just your year in and year out college star. This kid is off the chain.

By Norm Chapman

March 12, 2007 8:01 PM | Link to this

You are on smart guy. Noah is the total package. Forget about scoring. He doesn’t score a bundle of points because his role is defined on the Florida team. Al Orford averages 13 points a game and Noah 12. Both can score more in a different system. He is a leader and the most saavy big man in the College game. His passing reminds me of Bill Walton and kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He would rule Madison Square Garden if the Knicks get him. He was born in New York and brings all the swagger of the Big Apple with him.

By mavid

March 12, 2007 8:53 PM | Link to this

mike, i dont think we disagree.

oden and durant are the exceptions you speak of.

durant would be best used as a 3. BUT, he doesnt need a “banger” 4 alongside him. Someone like j-smoove or marion would work just fine as well.

By mykhalc

March 12, 2007 9:17 PM | Link to this

ROAN ST, you always bring good posts but you are wrong if you think i have not seen him play!! I HAVE!! and what i see is a skinny college kid, killin’ ‘em at the college level. the cat can play no doubt!! BUT HE IS NO LEBRON!! LJ was a man among boys!!DURANT is the best KID amongst kids!! he will get beat down in his first couple of years!!! mark it!!! the catches he’s seein’ in college WILL NOT be there at the next level for him. think about it…SHEED, J ONEAL, KG, DIRK etc ALL had MAD skills upon enterin’ the league and they ALL took some time to develop!!! your gauge is tilted and your view is thru rose colored glasses my friend!! it’s just not gonna happen as fast as you cats think and history PROVES it!!! AND THE PLAYERS IN THE LEAGUE WILL PROVE THAT HE WILL THEN BE A KID AMONGST MEN!!!! MARK IT AGAIN

By mavid

March 12, 2007 9:28 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, who do you think will be better next year: durant or marvin?

id say durant, but judging from your posts you’d say marvin. am i right?

By mykhalc

March 12, 2007 9:29 PM | Link to this

also to add, how far do you cats think these guys confidence will drop when they enter the league???? a gazillon percent, that’s how far!!! so add that to the learnin’/adjustment curve and you’ve got EVEN MORE of a struggle!! it’s just NOT bein’ realistic!!! regardless of the talent, it’s just not bein’ realistic!!

By mykhalc

March 12, 2007 9:39 PM | Link to this

MAVID, with ALL do respect bro. there is NOOOOOOOOOOO WAY that DURANT will get anything close to 18-20 ppg in his first year!!! again, i refer back to my examples of past players with MAD skills comin’ into the league…DURANT WILL NOT HAVE THE LUXURY OF THE OPPONENTS GUARDIN’ HIM TODAY NEXT YEAR!! the opposition ITSELF is gonna make us do a double-take at him next year!!! we’ve just gotta be more realistic with these KIDS and their impact!!!!!!

By mykhalc

March 12, 2007 9:43 PM | Link to this

MAVID, you’re right. MARVIN will be a better pro than DURANT next year, IMHO!!! that does not mean that SOME (maybe even me) might see him havin’ more upside than MARVIN as early as next year. but it’ll be UPSIDE AND NOT PRODUCTION!!!

By mavid

March 12, 2007 9:56 PM | Link to this

mykhalc

i respectfully disagree. Durant’s offensive game is just so polished. 18-20 ppg IS VERY realistic (especially if he goes to a team with a playmaking pg). I think his production will be very similar to marvin’s next year.

anyone else have thoughts on this?

By mykhalc

March 12, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

MAVID, then i think we are stuck bro!!!LOL agreein’ to disagree!!!

By Volman

March 12, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

I think they are two different players to tell you the truth.

I don’t like the way Durant shoots it, but it goes in a good amount of the time. I love Marvin’s jump shot, but it doesn’t always go in. Durant looks like he’s more polished offensively (can fade away from the block and create a lot of his shots..can shoot the 3—-the COLLEGE 3 pretty well)… Marvin can knock down elbow shots and drive—when he puts his mind to it. He’s now starting to try and post guys up (which I like)… We’ll see how that goes. What’s Marvin’s 3 point percentage?

Durant has had the ball in his hands from day one. He’s been “the man”. He has taken the shots… He’s doing everything. I don’t think we can necessarily compare him to Marvin.. Marvin is NO WAY in the same realm as Durant as far as being utilized in an offense. Marvin is a role player who is trying to be a 3rd scorer who can knock down open jumpers. Durant is the NUMBER ONE OPTION…night in, night out. We can’t even compare their college games… Wasn’t Marvin the 6th man for UNC? Yep.

Durant seems like he’s good on the boards though.. A lot of his rebounds are off of his missed shots…and then he puts them back up (a la Zaza Pachulia)…he also takes some really crazy shots at times forcing it…so take that for what it’s worth.

So we all know Durant is a little more creative on the offensive end and looks to rebound more. Do I want Marvin or Durant? I’ll stay with Marvin right now. Hey, he’s got a couple years of NBA under his belt before Durant comes in.. and he seems to be a bit more physical..

Plus, he’s a Hawk.

By Wedgie Evans

March 12, 2007 10:46 PM | Link to this

Noah’s an active big guy who plays with passion and excels at rebounding. But he still doesn’t score efficiently enough, he’s not strong enough to defend the bigger 4’s and 5’s in the NBA one-on-one, and his frame doesn’t really allow him to put on that extra weight he’s going to need. He’ll be a nice NBA player, but when you pick in the top 5, you want a guy who can be a cornerstone of your franchise on both ends of the floor, and Noah’s not going to be that. I could see him becoming Marcus Camby without the offense, which is still not bad at all, but ain’t worth a top-5 pick over Oden, Durant, the Wrights, Horford, Acie Law, and maybe even Al Thornton and Jeff Green. And if you are picking on potential, even Thaddeus Young should probably go ahead of Noah.

And I’d strongly disagree with Sekou Smith’s assertion that active big men like Noah are more valuable than scorers, especially big guys who can score. You can find active big guys like Andris Biedrins, Anderson Varejao, Tyson Chandler, David Lee, etc. who rebound and defend all over the league. Even in the unlikely event that Noah is a defensive game-changer like Ben Wallace, keep in mind that Wallace himself was undrafted. But how many big guys around the league can score in the low post? Low post scoring is at a premium in the NBA, and this is why Horford should and will go higher than Noah. Best case scenario, Noah’s the next Camby or Ben Wallace. Worst case, he’s the next Mikki Moore. I want something a little better than that with a top-5 pick.

By Mike

March 12, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this

Guys give me a break, Durant is a special kid, but to compare him to Marvin with 3 yrs of NBA experience come on. Durant is 6,9” with a thin frame. As long as he doesn’t have any major injuries he should fine. Don’t forget Marvin got injured the year the Hawks drafted him and again at the beginning of this season, before that Marvin was a shot blocker, a post player, and a jump shooter at UNC. Marvin still hasn’t reached his full potential. I love Durant he’s more polish than Marvin was as a freshmen in college, but that’s college. Oden and Noah games are better suited for the post position in the NBA. That’s where there is a shortage of talent.

By mavid

March 12, 2007 11:02 PM | Link to this

volman, marvin was drafted to someday be THE man (not a 3rd scoring option). I still think he is on his way there (dude is still only 20, or is it 21 now?). This is why I think the hawks are set with their core 3 players so long as we get a defensive 5 and a playmaking pg (and depth of course).

The thing that really hurt marvin was not staying one more year in college. Had he stayed at UNC, he wouldve been THE man at UNC, and roy williams wouldve groomed him to take that responsibility. It wouldve completely changed his mentality (and who knows, he might have even put up numbers similar to what Durant is doing now).

I love Marvin as a player (and still think both deron williams and chris paul are kinda douche-bags), so we’ll see who ends up having a better NBA career between him and Durant(right now I would say Durant, but Marvin still hasnt nearly tapped into what is possible from him).

Also, I think in the scheme of things, they are VERY comparable. SF/PF tweeners who can hit the outside shot or drive to the basket. Durant’s upside is compared to a combo of KG and Nowitzki. These are the players Marvin was originally compared to as well (I always thought he had the talent to be a more athletic Nowitzki, and I still think he can be).

Anyways, thats a lot about nothing.

Random Question: Why do yall think Marvin takes so few 3 pointers? The kid can clearly shoot, yet he never seems to take any 3s?

By Clyde

March 12, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

To me Durant will be the best player in this years draft. His only weakness when he makes it in the NBA is his quickness off the dribble.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By mykhalc

March 12, 2007 11:44 PM | Link to this

MARVIN is 20 and JS is 21!!

i can see a double team run at DURANT right now…DEER IN THE HEADLIGHTS!!! NO DOUBT!!!LOL

By reese

March 12, 2007 11:50 PM | Link to this

I can’t comment about Durant because I have never seen him play. However, I have been to a Florida game and can comment about Noah.

If your looking for a player with charisma and fan/media saavy, then Noah is your man. Otherwise, he is a tall player with decent offense and defensive skills. His shot is awkward looking. He did run the floor, but did not dominate against the smaller Auburn players. However, that may be because the Florida Guards and small forward controlled the flow of the game. If we drafted Noah, I would not be upset. However, I would not be overly excited either.

I saw Oden play on Saturday and nothing really stood out about his game. I did notice that he looked old. Again, the guards and small forwards controlled the flow of the game and were not even looking to give the ball to oden on offense. His shot was blocked and he was in foul trouble. I’d have to say the same about drafting Oden (if he comes out) as I feel about Noah.

Whoever said that Durant is better than Jordan as a freshmen is comparing apples to oranges. Back when Jordan played, he was competing against other teams who had talented players that were in college 2, 3 and 4 years.

Too tell the truth, I’d rather see the hawks make the playoffs, lose the phoenix pick, have all the underclassmen stay in school and worry about the draft in 08.

Honest abe, to say that KG is soft and then include Dirk Nowistki in your top ten unfair to KG. Dirk’s management went out and acquired 2 defensive centers to play alongside of him. Minnesota hasn’t done the same for KG. But hey, it is your top 10.

By Volman

March 13, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

Mavid, great points. Right on with just about everything.

I really don’t know why Marvin doesn’t shoot from the outside. Think if he added that to what he could do? I don’t think people really respect his shot much. It’s a BEAUTIFUL shot, but it just doesn’t always go in.

What do you guys think?

By Mark

March 13, 2007 1:11 AM | Link to this

For a team like the Hawks, scoring ability is a consideration. So if they get a top 3 pick and decide to pick a guy who is too weak to be a 4, not skilled enough to be a 3, and has no post game or jump shot whatsoever, someone has to be fired. I mean, that would be like passing up on two All Star caliber point gaurds to take another 6’9” forward. Who does that? Noah is fine for a team who needs an energy guy off the bench. He’s a weaker Anderson Verrajao.

By James Adams

March 13, 2007 1:57 AM | Link to this

This years #1 and next years #1, Zaza and Marvin for KG. Id do that in a nano-second. And I can honestly say, if Im ever within walking distance of Jay Bilas, Im going to go up to him, shake his hand, and say, ‘Good call on Josh Smith’, then walk away. Why do I have a feeling he’ll say,” Well….the Jerk Store called….and their all out of YOU”! What a first class duchebag. NO, he sucks as a college commentator. The ACC is no the only conference in basketball, despite what he, Billy Packer, Dick Vitale, Jim Valvano’s corpse, Minnie Pearl, Harry Sax and Hal Linden would have you to believe. Hal Linden…what a second class duchebag…..

By honest_abe

March 13, 2007 9:19 AM | Link to this

reese: i think i was clear by putting a disclaimer on kg before i ripped him. he is a damn good player! but his strength is supposedly being a force in the paint. dirk’s perceived strength is his outside shot. so is dirk soft? yes, but he’s the mav’s #1 option. he is what every other team game plans around. kg? his supposed strength is dominate the paint. does he? not really. he shoots more jumpers than actually working on the block. and that’s my point about being soft.

has dallas surrounded dirk with better pieces? absolutley! but kg still takes the cake for having done the least with what’s he’s got.

By Chris D'

March 13, 2007 10:27 AM | Link to this

A W tonight and we match last year’s win total.

If the Suns get Noah with our pick we traded them I don’t think Billy Knight will ever get invited to another GM social event.

By A Thinking Fan

March 13, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Labron was a man amoung boyz becuz he hit the Weight Room! Durant needs to get up close and personal with the weight room… ask Shaq if it matters. Oh that’s right Shaq needs a “great guard” to produce.

By mavid

March 13, 2007 3:17 PM | Link to this

volman, i think marvin will develop that part of his game for next season… he’s too good a shooter not to.

everyone, i just realized something about monta ellis

can GS really keep him? they already have guards with bloated contracts that no one else really wants: Baron, J-Rich (who would be more tradeable if not for his injury history), and Stephen Jackson.

Now, Ellis is a restricted FA, meaning GS can match any offer or demand compensation, BUT, can GS really match an offer for him?

They already have a bunch of players being paid a lot. Plus, they need to lock up Biedrins before ellis. Pietrus is probably more important too.

Would Monta Ellis work here? I’m not sure, but its worth looking into.

By jhan

March 13, 2007 3:24 PM | Link to this

Shaq can produce. He still has never won a ring without a “great guard” next to him. If he can win a title this year, without Wade, he will have a legitimate argument as the most dominate big man ever. I personally feel Hakeem is better.

By roan st

March 13, 2007 4:08 PM | Link to this

Jhan, every great center who has won a ring had a great player playing alongside him. Hakeem had clyde drexler, sam cassell, and robert horry. Kareem had magic and worthy. Wilt chamberlin had mr clutch Jerry west. Bill russell had bob cousy and john havelcheck. I don’t uderstand why people think shaq should somehow have to do it alone to cement his greatness. Shaq is in the twilight of his career and I very seriously doubt he can lead a rag tag bunch to another championship without the help of dwade.

By jhan

March 13, 2007 4:50 PM | Link to this

That is kind of the point I’m trying to make. No center can produce for an entire season or playoff run without a “great guard” helping them out. Someone has to feed Shaq the ball where he is most effective. If he can win a ring without DWade, then I will consider him the best center ever.

By roan st

March 13, 2007 5:56 PM | Link to this

I would trade five marvin williams for kevin durant. To even compare marvin to durant is an insult to durant. Marvin will be a solid NBA player and that is it. Some of you can keep on dreaming that marvin is going to somehow develop into this dynamic talent but he is not. Durant is going to be an all world talent. He will have an immediate impact in the NBA. I have been watching college basketball for a long time and have never seen a freshmen dominate like this kid. I read someones comment on his scoring and rebounding abilty but how about those six blocks sunday in the big 12 championship game. The kid is very active on defense as well. I think his rookie season in the NBA will be similar to lebron james.