Hawks

By Anakin Joe

February 28, 2007 9:55 AM | Link to this

AMEN, Blog Z. I watched much of the FLA-TENN game and I saw absolutely nothing from either of those bigs that the Gators have. Noah and Horford were much too quiet considering their team was losing by over 20 during most of the second half. I don’t recall seeing any bigs for the Vols that were shutting down those guys. They simply didn’t play with a sense of urgency.

Most of the guys who have been so hyped are freshmen and are mostly SFs. Do we need another 19 year old wing player? The centers being discussed are so raw, they may take 5-6 years to develop. The kid at UCONN isn’t getting much time in college, he’s almost certain to spend his first 2 years in the NBDL. I like Acie Law. He looks like he’ll be a very strong PG in the NBA. I liked McRoberts last season but he hasn’t improved in the absence of Shelden.

Speaking of which, Shelden broke ranks and questioned the brilliance that is Coach Woody. I, too, would bet a small fortune that Shelden is rebounding for another team next year.

By jhan

February 28, 2007 9:57 AM | Link to this

I hear you Sekou! Why anyone would considering tanking a season for a chance to gamble on one of these players is beyond me. Take a long look at the list of college players over the years who were supposed to dominate at the next level, and you will notice a small percentage actually did that.

By dap

February 28, 2007 10:38 AM | Link to this

Will Sheldon be gone or will the coach?

By Ryder

February 28, 2007 11:04 AM | Link to this

I think these days unless you have a can’t-miss prospect (ala Dwight Howard or Chris Paul) you have to draft in regards to the structure of your team. It’s really not smart to gamble your future on a college player. Think about this, you could also end up with the same situation Jermaine O’Neal was in when he was drafted by Portland. Waste away on the bench for a few years adn become a star somewhere else. I know circumstances are different for each team but it’s worth exploring.

Let’s go to the Hawks for a second. Since it’s obvious they are generally hit (Josh Smith) and miss (Shelden Williams) when it comes to the draft, they might be wise to package one of their wingmen and the draft pick from Indiana in hopes of getting some help in the paint.

Here’s another problem Atlanta faces. Now that they’re stuck with Speedy (I don’t see anyone with half a brain taking him in a deal) and that contract they now have to justify it with giving him playing time. I was wrong about him and I agree with Ando that he is a career backup who has no business starting in the NBA. This affects drafting a point guard….no wait, it’s BK’s idiocy which prevents that from happening.

Today’s college players are great because they exceed at the team game in college. When they come to the pros it takes time for them to develop to the NBA game. A veteran team can take a risk on a young player, or a team starting from scratch. When you’re the Hawks, however, you can’t afford to add more young players to an already young core and wait for him to develop. Especially when they have no idea what the coach is doing.

By Theo755

February 28, 2007 11:27 AM | Link to this

I agree that there seems to be a severe lack of dominant players in the NCAAs…and honestly, I’m getting sick of the pros drafting based on potential. JSmith seems to be turning out just fine, but there seem to be plenty of other guys whose “potential” is mediocrity.

And, good Lord help me, I am ready to see Woodson go. I haven’t really thought much about him being a problem, despite all the posts calling for his head, but when Shelden “Meek” Williams comes out and says he doesn’t understand what Woody wants to do? Despite that that being the most aggressive thing the PF has done all year, it really got me thinking about just how Woody coaches this team…

…and MWoodson needs to go.

By MannyT

February 28, 2007 11:59 AM | Link to this

The NBA draft is deep because there are a lot of athletic guys with potential. Some of them may actually have basketball skills and brains, but that’s not the focus.

Hot draft prospect in the NFL means, he is better than we thought in NON CONTACT evaluation (i.e. the combine) Wait until the speedy pick runs into 4.7/40 guy that hits like a truck w/o brakes. Is he Tom Brady or Ryan Leaf!

Hot draft prospect in NBA means, he is athletic, his arms are longer than we thought and he is at least the height listed in college program. We don’t know if he’s got basketball smarts or makes his team better. Is he Gilbert Arenas or Michael Olowokandi!

Because there is no real minor league feeder system in NFL or NBA, players have to prove themselves quickly. In the NBA, the players with potential move to the pros faster than any other sport. Of the players that stay in college for 3 or 4 years, they get devalued compared to a high schooler due to the POTENTIAL upside.

I think all the excitement about the draft (outside of Durant & Oden) is based on the fact that these college guys are more athletic. Until you figure out if the team can focus that talent into productive basketball, it means about as much as calling the average high school honor roll student a potential millionaire.

By Anakin Joe

February 28, 2007 1:01 PM | Link to this

I was thinking more about Shelden during my run to Chick Fil A (is there a better fast food destination?) Earlier in the season, Shelden would get some playing time and would often get pulled when he got into foul trouble. Of course, this was before the Joshes and Marvin were all healthy. So dude is thinking, “okay, I need to stay out of foul trouble to earn playing time”. Then everyone gets healthy and now Woody sends him in to give the core a breather. But Woody expects him to exhaust his fouls while playing in very short spurts. Meanwhile, Shelden is trying to limit his fouls because he thinks that will allow him to stay in the game.

That people, is a classic case of poor communication. Woody needs to sit him down and explain his role… foul the heck out of people during the 18 minutes you’re in the game. Of course, ultimately that forces him into a Batista type role (formerly known as the team goon). I can understand how someone with Shelden’s pedigree would bristle at the notion of limiting himself to being nothing more than a walking foul. Just sounds like a bad marriage to me.

I’d settle the divorce by trading Shelden and Marvin to Portland for Aldridge and Webster. Remember, Portland traded out of the #3 slot in ‘05 to draft Martell Webster (instead of Deron or Paul). Aldridge has shown flashes, but can he develop behind Zach Randolph? Portland doesn’t have their SF of the future. Webster could back-up JJ and Aldridge would be our “big of the future”.

By Wedgie Evans

February 28, 2007 1:20 PM | Link to this

Couldn’t agree more with Sekou. For the amount of hype this draft gets, the number of potential stars is relatively few. That said, there are a LOT of players who will be solid rotation guys on good teams, and/or #2-#3 options on bad teams, coming out in this draft. In most years, there will be some players who are solid rotation guys, and some players who will be out of the league in a few years. That’s what separates this draft from previous years. A guy like Al Horford, for example, reminds me of Zach Randolph… he’s not going to be an elite forward that you can build a championship team around, but he’ll be a solid #2 guy and someone might overpay him at some point to be their #1 guy and live to regret it later. Horford will probably go in the top 10 this year. But definitely, the overall quality of this draft is a little overrated. If you look at NBADraft.net, all the prospects they have listed are a mixture of super-athletic college players who don’t really have a game yet (like Thaddeus Young), and super-productive college players who are too flawed to be stars in the NBA (like Tyler Hansbrough).

I will say that UNC’s Brandan Wright and Kansas’s Julian Wright, as well as 1-2 other potential draftees this year, have a legit chance to be stars. But the only sure things at this point are Oden and Durant. And when all is said and done, assuming the Hawks keep the Pacers’ pick, I just hope it’s high enough that the Hawks can use it on Acie Law from Texas A&M. He reminds me of Jameer Nelson, except he’s taller, more athletic, and a better passer.

By Clyde

February 28, 2007 1:36 PM | Link to this

We wasted a lottery pick on someone we only use to commit fouls.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Tyger

February 28, 2007 1:50 PM | Link to this

Shelden’s whining is his problem, his premadonna status has worn long and rather than fight for his minutes, he whines like a “b”. Two Words: Solomon Jones.

He doesnt accept it, but his role is that of “GOON”. GOONS are physical and thus far, he’s been finesse. (Note the frequent 20fts.)

Shelden, #5 pick, was the strongest most athletic player in the draft - but he has to decide if he’s Ben Wallace or Adam Keefe.

The controlled workman-like tempo wont work, he has to be a beast, a wildman, like Rodman, undersized but strong as hell and a defensive monster in every category.

Shelden doesnt get dirty. He doesnt dive on the floor, he lets loose balls just pass him by, he doesnt make hard fouls, he doesnt protect the basket, he doesnt lean on anybody - forget that he plays below the rim - and this was b4 he was hurt.

If not, we package him with the pick and Speedy and get a “star” in return, like we did with Diaw. Young, good players can fetch a hefty sum.

And Thank God, the Hawks are to the point where they want to compete rather than nuture fragile egos. He can fight, fly, or flee.

We are 12-12 with our core and just got slightly better at PG. We’ve made strong pushes down the stretch the past two seasons and March is prime for a run, whether we make the playoffs or not.

Establishing the Hawks as a legitimate playoff contender is longterm targeted growth, and more valuable right now, than a 7-12 pick, that wont help us reach the playoffs next year.

We have other resources to improve: trades, free agency, cap space, young players.

By The Flash

February 28, 2007 2:00 PM | Link to this

Don’t agree. The guys from Florida are terrific. That league is terrific, and Florida has played a big time schedule. I really, really like the 3 guy at Florida. Think he is like the kid Howard in Dallas only longer. The two bigs are as good as college usually produces, and are smart and mature. Green has great size for a really quick and good shooting point.

There are a lot of really, really fast and good shooting points around, too many to mention.

Green, out of Georgetown, is going to be a terrific 3-4; if the big kid comes out, and he probably won’t, I maybe pick him one. Don’t look pretty and can’t jump, but he is is big 7’1”, as smart as they come, and just gets better and better, and is extremely wide in the shoulders, has great, if awkward, footwork and a solid enough base. But, he’s staying, I have to believe.

The West coast has several blazingly fast and talented points; the guys from Indiana; the bigs from the big East are all solid, solid journeymen centers in the NBA who will compete.

Me, I think about trading Smooth and getting Green. Get me a coach who really knows the Princeton, and start beating some folks on offense.

Just smoozin; I do like Green though, a lot!!!

By Dan

February 28, 2007 2:03 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

You say the college game is down, but what about the NBA? I am a huge fan of both (by the way, your Wolverines do not win last night without half the MSU team being sick). You say the the college game does not measure up to the ‘80’s and ‘90’s. Well, there are many (I’m not one of them) who will say the same thing about the NBA.

The problem with the pro game is too many young guys coming early from college. Back in the day, it was rare that guys came out prior to their senior season. The result was a more polished player heading into his first year in the league. Now, you get a kid who played one year of college. They have talent, but most of it is raw. The NBA, with its ridiculous schedule, is not a good place to groom guys. They have to learn by playing and not from good one-on-one coaching or practice time.

The college game in turn suffers, since most of its stars leave before their sophomore or junior seasons. That leaves the new crop of freshmen to carry the torch and they are not ready to do that, in most cases.

Roll Call: How many of you are going to renew your season tickets? I renewed mine this morning.

By William

February 28, 2007 3:04 PM | Link to this

I have found the college game to be unwatchable for years now. The fake hustle and fake energy that is displayed mostly just annoys me. Some people see intense basketball, i see unskilled players playing a unskilled game.

Sheldon Williams has a reason to be grumpy. When he got minutes he put up respectible numbers (those doubting that 6 and 6 is respectable for a first year PF in the NBA, take a look at the rest of the lottery picks this year) Sheldon, like it or not, is a polished player. If you don’t like polish, trade him for a guy like Ronny Turiaf, who has no polish to his game so he runs around like a psycho causing confusion(and its very useful…not knocking Turiaf). I can understand how he is confuse on what Woodson wants. And I am sure he isn’t the only one. Look at the boxscore in Dallas. The game got as high as a 30 point lead in the 4th and Solomon Jones plays 2 minutes after a very solid game the night before. What do you have to do to earn minutes on this team beside be in the league more than 8 years.

His worse game when played with comparable minutes is better than Lowrenzen Wrights best game. The problem is that Solomon Jones has the size and athletisim to be more effective at his role, plus the Hawks don’t need more scoring out of their bigs. They need a guy that can finish around the basket off of a pass from the slasher(solomon, Zaza) that can anchor the defense(basically solomon and no one else on the team)

I say trade him. He is a decent rebounding PF with a midrange jump shot. Basically he is Udonis Haslim with a less consistant jumper. Many teams would be looking for this out of their PF position(that suggested trade to Portland for Aldridge and Webster is laughable. They wouldn’t go for that deal in two million years)

By BosnianBaller

February 28, 2007 4:04 PM | Link to this

I agree with Sekou Smith 100%

By newkid

February 28, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this

Flash, thanks for the insight on Hibbert. Love his size (especially when he spreads out); love his knack of playing within his capabilities (reference the extremely high fgp). Noticed his name is mysteriously absent from most ‘07 draft boards; you’ve perhaps offered an explanation for that (i.e., he likely won’t come out).

By ray

February 28, 2007 5:48 PM | Link to this

Gee, that just gives me oodles of confidence about this year’s draft. Not only will we not get a top pick, but we’ll probably get to pick from what’s underneath the dregs of the draft. Yeeesh…

Let’s see what happens tonight.

An article on Shelden could have started with the decision to draft him at #5. And it’s all downhill from there. How many times must this be said?

By Dr. Naismith

February 28, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this

What’s the big problem with what Shelden and Woodson said in the story?. Both guys vented their frustrations about the other. It wasn’t nasty, they were just being honest. It was refreshing to see Woodson call someone out.

And it doesn’t seem to me that either should be booted off the island because of what was said. I do find it interesting that a rookie with four years of college experience that can’t defend mediocre big men in the NBA can’t figure out that his coach wants from him. The truth is Shelden is soft. He was at Duke and he still is. I remember it being written that he was worked over on a regular basis at Duke by the talented post players he faced. So why should anyone be surprised now? After four years of college, you are what you are. Check out JJ Redick.

As for Sekou’s critique of the college game. He raises good points. But isn’t the college game a reflection of the pro game?

By ray

February 28, 2007 5:52 PM | Link to this

Read that article on Shelden again. Ok, so who thinks that Woodson doesn’t know what the hell he’s doing with these youngsters? And who thinks Shelden just isn’t the blue collar guy he was suppposed to be? Who thinks it’s both?

By mavid

February 28, 2007 6:20 PM | Link to this

i think millsap is everything shelden should be, only got taken 45 picks after him

makes you wonder, if millsap played at duke, would he have been a top 10 pick?

my biggest problem with taking duke players is that their system makes them seem better than they are (this is why I was so against pickiig shelden, i saw him play in college, and yeah he produced in that system, but he was not all that talented IMO). so goes the story of redick, shelden, trajan langdon, christian laetner (who was good, but not like he was in college), and the same will happen with paulus and mcbobs (mcroberts)

not saying no good players come out of duke, because like any elite team, they can recruit the best (brand, deng, boozer, battier are all solid players…)

its funny to compare the NBA players that UNC produces to the ones that Duke produces. why are the UNC players SOOO much better in the NBA, even though the players are similar to dukies in college?

yeah, i hate duke, their system, and rat-faced coach K

-end rand-

(waits for the response from the lamest people in the world… aka duke fans)

By GatorHater

February 28, 2007 6:47 PM | Link to this

This upcoming draft will be LOADED with quality big men. Outside of Oden and Durant (who are franchise players) you have Noah, Horford, Big Baby (who last yr would have been a top 10 but now maybe top 20), B. Wright, Hansborough, Al Thorton, J. Wright, Tucker, McRoberts and the list goes on and on. This draft is loaded from top to bottom. BUT WHO CARES. THE HAWKS WILL HAVE ONE PICK AND THAT WILL BE AROUND 18-22.

By JB

February 28, 2007 6:59 PM | Link to this

Anakin, Shelden may be questioning Woody’s thinking, but you and I need to know that it’s Billy’s thinking that put Woody in the predicament of burning a high draft pick on an undersized college overacheiver who is now hurt that his main value is in six more fouls to give.

By Chris

February 28, 2007 8:40 PM | Link to this

Lofton…under the radar? Dude leads the SEC in scoring, ESPN’s talking heads can’t shut up about him…What exactly is under the radar about him?

Try watching more college ball, Sekou. At least those kids have heart (not tattoos and posses).

By mykhalc

February 28, 2007 9:14 PM | Link to this

zero offensive rebs????!!!!!

By preston

February 28, 2007 9:24 PM | Link to this

I 2nd that sentiment Mykhalic…..ZERO FREAKIN OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS????!!!!! Isn’t that an indication of dead legs??? Why does Woodson continue to burn out his starters, and leave fresh legs in Salim and Solomon on the bench…..hell, we could use Sheldon in there to help rebound at this point…..I even saw Chris Paul miss a shot and grab his own rebound between… TWO hawks players!!! I have lost all confidence in Woodson.

By preston

February 28, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

One bright spot aside from the atrocious offensive rebounding tonight….the way Marvin is playing….He is trying to make us forget all about Chris Paul!!! Hopefully he will keep up the good work!!!!

By mykhalc

February 28, 2007 9:31 PM | Link to this

i’m soooooooooooooo sick of WOODSON!!!!! he has noooooooo clue!!!

By Mindyamanners

February 28, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

What’s the guy’s name that leads hte SEC in scoring? I’d never heard of him either. The ESPN talking heads only yammer on about Duke, North Carolina, Florida and the other pet schools that are always on the nextwork.

I agree with Sekou. No one knows who the heck these kids are anymore. And to assume that some of these freshman will be stars would be making the same foolish assumptions people made about Marvin Williams two years ago. It’s a roll of the dice with guys that young.

And speaking of, since when does a rookie get to rule over a coach? This notion that Shelden not knowing what the coach wants from him being tthe fault of anyone other than the damn rookie is complete nonsense. You can’t have it both ways folks. No one blamed Woodson when he was doing the same things to Josh Smith and Salim Stoudamire.

By mykhalc

February 28, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

obviously ‘effective’ communication runs in ONE DIRECTION as far as you’re concerned!!!???

By preston

February 28, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

ok….forget about my comments regarding Chris Paul…with the game on the line, he is providing leadership…making and creating shots for his team….what are we doing???…looking for someone to lead us, and taking desperation shots. Looks like our guys are just gassed out at the end……Wait a minute… sounds like I just heard Steve Smith say the same thing..”Our guys have just run out of gas.”…….Hmmmmm, I wonder why?

By doc

February 28, 2007 11:19 PM | Link to this

flash, i left a note to you on the last blog, nice visitin with ya.

By reese

February 28, 2007 11:31 PM | Link to this

Great game josh smith and I’m not talking about the fact that he had excellent stats and almost had a triple double. I’m talking about the way he changed the momentum of the game in the third qtr by blocking shots, grabbing rebounds and pushing the ball down court. He even motivated Joe Johnson to block a shot.

Woodson is so quick to call out Josh Smith who is inconsistent from game to game and never mentions Josh Childress or Marvin Williams by name. I don’t understand how those 2 players can watch Josh Smith bust his butt on both the offensive/defensive end and yet they don’t do the same.

Even Joe Johnson and Lorenzen wright should be criticized. There was a play where Devin Brown made a steal and was being chased by JJ and Wright. JJ ran in front of Devin without trying to make a steal. Devin brown laid it up weakly and Wright didn’t even try to block the shot. He just watched Devin.

Even bigger is the poor coaching by Woodson. He says that he wanted more fouls and he got it to the tune of 30 of 38 Hornets free throws to our Hawks 12 of 15.

Shelden Williams has over 20 family members in the stadium to see him and Woodson makes him sit the whole first half and half time. Then, in the middle of the 3rd qrt he throws him out there to fail by playing him in the center position. Note to Woodson: SHELDEN WILLIAMS IS NOT A CENTER.

Again Woodson fails to place Solomon Jones in the game and overplays Joe Johnson.

Woodson praises CP3 for coming up big in the 4th qtr. Byron Scott out coaches Woodson by using 11 players throughout the game. No Hornet player played more than 37 minutes. Scott is rewarded by having Brown, Chandler and CP3 rested late in the 4th qtr.

By CJ

March 1, 2007 12:16 AM | Link to this

Looks like Woodson and Knight will be exiting this summer.

By mykhalc

March 1, 2007 12:35 AM | Link to this

REESE, you and i have agreed to disagree on the PT for players…cool. and i totally get where you are comin’ from about it too. my thing is WOODSON is TOTALLY LOST with ROTATIONS AND COMBINATIONS!!! it would be nice to see more players play EFFECTIVELY!! but WOODSON’s MADNESS just DOES NOT allow it!!!

instead of him keepin’ the one lineup that produced before SPEEDY’s return and AJ’s trade, he now keeps SPEEDY in the game longer then subs CHILLS for MW and AJ for SPEEDY (at some point). INSTEAD, to keep the flow the team had, he should be subbin’ JC for SPEEDY (keepin’ the rotation as it was) then subbin’ AJ for JJ. at that point you have JC and AJ on the court together. WOODSON would then have the flexibilty of who would play 1 or 2.

then you can still sub SHELDEN and SOLO. so rest can be had for JS and MW too.

but WOODSON INSISTS on destroyin’ the ONE unit that was producin’. and that unit again is the CORE 4 and ZAZA!!! i just DO NOT SEE why it is sooooooo hard for WOODSON to get!! when WOODSON’s choices are limited (due to injuries and such), the team played better!!! PERIOD!!! and they played better because WOODSON had less say in it all!!!!!!

By Clyde

March 1, 2007 12:36 AM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

THIS S* IS GETTING OLD. YEAR AFTER YEAR THE HAWKS KEEP DOING THE SAME OLE THANG. WHEN WILL THE MADNESS STOP?? AS MARVIN GAYE SAID “MAKES ME WANNA HOLLA AND THROW UP MY HANDS.”

SHOW YOUR FACE BILLY AND GIVE US AN EXPLAINATION AS TO WHY THIS TEAM KEEPS LOSING.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By mykhalc

March 1, 2007 12:41 AM | Link to this

and as much as i like LUE, i DREAD the day he returns!!!! if we think WOODSON has looked lost before then you wait to see what his rotations look like when LUE returns!!!!!!!!

as my man WALT ‘CLYDE’ FRAZIER would say…DISCOMBOBULATED!!!!!

By mykhalc

March 1, 2007 12:53 AM | Link to this

actually he needs to start IVEY again!!!!!!!!!! makes sense to me!!!!???????????? sarcasm off

By Clyde

March 1, 2007 1:20 AM | Link to this

THE ONLY RIGHT THING BILLY COULD DO RIGHT NOW IS OFFER ANYTHING EXCEPT JJ AND JSMOOVE FOR A HIGH DRAFT PICK. WE NEED ACIE LAW OR DURANT. PERIOD.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By On the coach

March 1, 2007 1:42 AM | Link to this

Winnable Game! The Hornets are ok, but the coaching won out. ZaZa missed at least 4 lay ups. MW and others just don’t hustle to the ball. There is zero inside toughness outside of JS. Woodson is losing me as a supporter. This bunch now seems unmotivated, outside of JS. JJ is good but doesn’t seem to be striving for great. May be the heavy minutes though. Dissapointing loss, I thought the Hawks would start a surge tonight, but it is not to be. The system offense and defense is flawed, thus Woody is flawed. You really want to like this bunch, but its just something thats holding them back. Woody? Knight? Kinda Sad.

By reese

March 1, 2007 2:04 AM | Link to this

Mykhalc (be prepared for a long post :), as much as you want JC to be a point guard, the reality is he is not a point guard. He does not have point guard instincts, dribbling ability or aggresiveness.

Several times he was being covered by Bobby Jackson and he was being pushed out of the post. He didn’t try to get the ball and shoot over him. He basically did nothing.

Additionally, Speedy is not the reason why the Hawks are losing. He plays great defense and he can push the pace. The problem is that the hawks players don’t run enough. Both JJ and Jchill pace themselves for a 40 plus minute night.

At one point in the game JJ was playing the 3 spot. While on defense, the Hornet player dribbled towards the goal and did a reverse layup. JJ was on that side of the goal and didn’t make an effort to deter the player. If JJ had tried to block the shot, the hawks could have made a good stop and potentially go for a fast break.

There are so many instances where JJ, Marvin and Childress just don’t push themselves on the defensive end to make plays similar to Josh Smith.

As a coach, I would highlight these things in practice and start swapping players out until they did.

I’ve mentioned that the hawks bigs don’t roll correctly on the pick and roll and yet they still have not fixed that facet of their game. I don’t understand what the coaches cover in practice and why this is still occuring.

I don’t understand why the hawks players are grabbing rebounds in the lane and throwing it back out to other players. Take it up strong and get points, a foul or both.

Unfortunately, just reading the stats don’t tell the true story. Example, during the Phoenix game, it was obvious that Anthony Johnson had run out of gas in the 4th qtr. He was covering Steve Nash and motioned over to Marving Williams to switch men. I can see this in the stands and woodson still leaves him out there.

These are times that woodson can play Johnson on offensive and then switch to speedy or Royal on defense late in the 4th qtr.

Yet, woodson is so bent on having jj, marvin, childress and smith on the floor at the same time that he is letting games slip away.

During the Phoenix game and in the 4th qtr, the lineup was the core 4 and anthony johnson. Childress was playing down low and the pass was made to him. He had a wide open lane and in instead of taking the ball into the lane strong, he anticipated that Amare or Marion would come and challenge him. No one came and he missed a wide open 2 foot shot. On another play, he grabbed a offensive rebound, turned his back to the basket and threw the pass back out to another player. There was no one in front of him and the goal.

These are problems that are repeated from game to game and make me sick to my stomach. I was screaming for him to shoot the ball.

They do so many things wrong and yet they are still close in some of these games because they have started to have more players produce stats in all the positive offensive and defensive categories.

I’m going to keep pointing out these flaws until these players are fundamentally sound; until these players are agressive on both the offensive/defensive end; until woodson starts playing more players (doesn’t have to be a lot of minutes); until woodson incorporates a more balance lineup during more portions of the game; until woodson starts rewarding players who do well with more playing time and until the team is winning.

By mykhalc

March 1, 2007 2:45 AM | Link to this

REESE, good, long post!!:o)

hey man, i cannot say anythin’ to refute your observations!! ‘cause unfortunately, i make ALL my observations from the boxscore (as you know)!! the times when i did get to see the team, the CORE4 and ZAZA really played well together, and the offense flowed!! and as i’ve posted before, that’s probably NOT an indication of their nite-in, nite-out play. but none-the-less, it is what i witnessed!!!

and just for the record, i don’t want JC to be a 1. i ONLY want productive units and rotations. and that’s where i feel he best serves the team right now (with my limited game observations). i just find it hard to overlook that when the team had it’s first winnin’ month in 3 yrs (jan ‘07), that the main reason was that the core unit w/ZAZA finally developed some chemistry and consistency due to the minutes they ALL were gettin’!!! roles were clear and rotations set. and thru all his lack of PG skills, JC was part of THE UNIT that was producin’ and progressin’!!! that’s just my take on it!!!

WOODSON’s inflexibilty is stagnatin’ a team that WAS movin’ forward!! now, it just seems like he’s tryin’ to MAKE things fit in his PISTONS-like mind!!!???!!!

here’s question for ya…did BEN WALLACE always play center???? at 6’9” my guess would be, NO!! so someone along the way SAW where he best served the team!! D’ANTONI said he errored in tryin’ to make BARBOSA a 1 when he realized that he was a 2 in a PG’s body!!! it SHOULD be all about the servin’ the team and how to best do it!!! WOODSON DOES NOT have the skills for recognizin’ what is needed and where!!!

By mavid

March 1, 2007 3:16 AM | Link to this

wow, the texas-texas A&M game was dope

im now officially on the acie law bandwagon

durant would be even better of course

By Chris D'

March 1, 2007 4:14 AM | Link to this

“I’m just not convinced there are as many potential superstars roaming the landscape.”

Sekou,

By definition there can only be a limited amount of “superstars”. Could you technically have an NBA draft say 20 deep in superstars? If every team drafted a superstar what would make them super, at that point they would be average because every team would have one.

By Dustin from Dville

March 1, 2007 5:34 AM | Link to this

The hawks gm is terrible and so is the coach. But im glad they suck because hopefully well find a way to land a top 2 pick in the draft!! right now we have the # 7th worse record. And only 2 of those teams will forshure have worse records than the hawks….so hopefully we can loose enough games to get the 3rd most pingpong balls in the lotto!! Go Hawks…make the games close…just please dont win em!! anyone who disagrees with me is a idiot and is fooled into thinking this team is playoff material. Joe Johnson NEEDS another superstar!! Durant and Joe johnson….sounds good dosent it!! even better would be the defensive skills of a true center like ODEN!!
theres also this lopez kid for stanford…hes 7 ft and only 18. had 12 blocks aginst USC the other night! and shoots over 55% from the field.

By ray

March 1, 2007 7:29 AM | Link to this

That was just disgusting. We really should have won.

Josh Smith was all energy and hitting the boards. Too bad his teammates couldn’t seem to follow suit. Smith is really growing fast. He took the right amount of jump shots and seems to be learning how to get his first step on his opponent on drives and is finishing well. Couldn’t believe his energy. The rest of the guys stunk it up on rebounding, for the most part. I mean, I watched him outjump Chandler a couple times.

Wright can’t even guard Chandler. Shelden comes in and shows why he’s not getting the minutes. Make all the excuses you want. If THAT’S polished…I want my money back.

By Clyde

March 1, 2007 7:45 AM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Dan

March 1, 2007 8:35 AM | Link to this

I think Sheldon Williams showed exactly why he is not an NBA player. Woodson gives him some gift minutes and he manages to miss two wide open shots and gets only one board. I am writing Sheldon off. He is an awful player and his being taken at the #5 spot in the draft will set this organization back.

I guess the Duke nutsucking does not get you very far in the NBA. Those clowns like Vitale and the rest of the ESPN Duke lovers do not know how to judge talent. Sheldon Williams ready for the NBA?!?!?! They must be out of their f’ing minds!

By Anakin Joe

March 1, 2007 9:17 AM | Link to this

Pin that loss on Coach Woody.

Game tied going into 4th quarter. Byron Scoot takes out both Chandler and Paul and has guys like Marc jackson and Pargo in the game. Woody keeps in JJ and Smith. Smith has just provided 110% of the required energy in the 3rd quarter. JJ, who inexplicably was still in the game at the end of a blow-out in Dallas, is clearly tired. JJ practically hid in the corner for most of the 4th quarter because he had nothing in his tank. Meanwhile, the Hornets scrubs are holding their own against our exhausted team. Salim is buried on the bench. Speedy (who actually played with energy) buried on the bench. Solomon, glued to the bench. Then surprise, surprise. A rested Chris Paul comes in and looks like the best player on the court. JJ scores his first 4th quarter points with maybe 2:15 left in the game. Smith, who almost had a triple double before the 4th quarter started, is left to make tired fouls. Oh and what does Salim do when he gets in with a minute left? Buries a 3-pointer.

Last year, Salim went off in this building, why not give him a chance to do the same last night? Marc Jackson abuses Shelden in the paint, no Lorenzen to bail him out. No plays for AJ to abuse Pargo in the paint.

That was a winnable game. Woody and his ridiculous use of his players turned that into a horrible loss. I don’t see how anyone who watched the game could think differently.

By KMKAT

March 1, 2007 9:29 AM | Link to this

Attention Atlanta spirit:

Form of group of fans from this blog and they alone can get more done with this team than Woody and Billy. They continue to be outcoached and outdrafted. Byron Scott could be here, Mike Dunleavy….anyone except this coach who has zero HC experience and no clue how to substitute. These 2 reasons alone should convince AS that Billy and Woody should be paid their serverance: Marvin and Shelden Williams……..

By hisroyalmackness

March 1, 2007 9:48 AM | Link to this

The reason college basketball sucks, is because all the really talented players are allowed to skip college, enter the NBA draft and then sit on the bench for 2-3 years.

I was so glad when they implemented the “1 year of college rule”. Think about it, had they not instituted this rule, who would the top draft picks be this year? Exactly.

It’s almost as if NCAA BB is now really just sort of a minor league system for the NBA. A league made up of players who weren’t good enough to make the jump, and need some “grooming” before they try to enter the draft. I really used to like CBB, but it just isn’t fun anymore. Just about as fun as watching minor league baseball.

Boy, the Hawks suuuuure could use a Center!

By firehawk

March 1, 2007 9:49 AM | Link to this

You really have to wonder about the quality and desire of this team when statements like this get made:

“They were just hungrier than we were,” Hawks forward Josh Smith

How bad do the hawks have to be for them to get hungry??? I mean our guys are angels compared to most of the league, but come on! Sack up while your on the court!

By g

March 1, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

You guys are crazy. Do you think that playing six mor minutes than Chris Paul made that much of difference. They lost because Smith was the only one hustling. You can’t take him out or Joe out at that time. You take those two out we get blowed away I promise you. Our guys do not hustle and we miss layups, an you know we got killed on the boards. Take Josh and Joe out and watch how bad the game gets. Clyde you suck. Fire yourself sucka.

By GT80

March 1, 2007 10:08 AM | Link to this

Most of you bloggers are way more in tune with the Hawks than me, and the reason I’m out of tune is because of things like this…Last night, the Hornets won with Chris Paul torching us for 24 pts, 13 assists, 4 steals while Marvin fouls out with 12 pts and 8 rebounds (not bad numbers but is this really what the #2 pick in the draft should be providing). And just to really rub it in, Deron W with the Jazz had a solid 14 pts and 10 assists last night. And our #5 pick in last years draft gave us 5 minutes and ZERO pts. And in the game last night, if Speedy is such a good defensive player like some of you have said, how can Paul get 12 FT’s and our G’s playing him only have 3 PF’s?

ARRRGGGGHHH…it just kills me to think what could have been if we had taken Paul over Marvin.

Billy Knightmare’s selections of the the last 2 years have killed this team for me. I expect him to be fired this summer as we miss the playoffs again, lose our #1 pick which will probably be #4 or #5 and sadly go into another year of trying to find a new coach and GM.

It’s so sad because with JJ and JSmith we have two really terrific players.

By Anakin Joe

March 1, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

g, if you watched the game, then you saw JJ and Smith do nothing early in the 4th quarter. Not because they were lazy, but because they were exhausted. And yes, there is a big difference between playing the entire second half with no breaks and being given about 4-5 basketball minutes of time to rest. We did a good job of rebounding in the 3rd quarter. Tied game going into the 4th quarter. And I’m not convinced that we would not have been able to hold our own against Pargo and Jackson without JJ and/or Smith. These guys are not PlayStation players, they do truly get fatigued.

By HB Ando

March 1, 2007 10:44 AM | Link to this

With every passing game, Shelden, unfortunately for him (he didn’t draft himself fifth), is proving out my post-draft, ongoing rants, about what a disastrous decision it was by Knight. So Woodson publicly admits that his team drafted a guy at five, who’s projected role was “dirty work”. Brilliant. You can find 30-45 guys like that either late in the draft, in Europe, or on the cheap during free agency. And we spend a #5 to fill that role. How do these guys get paid for this? It’s truly a comedy of errors. But, oddly, I’m not laughing.

So, last night, we get yet another reminder of what a similarly disastrous decision Knight had made the year before, in passing on Chris Paul.

I’ll say it again, these decisions have ruined our rebuilding, and set the future of this franchise back another 3 years (for the next GM to have to sort out). There’s simply nothing new for me to say, because every day my long standing positions are strengthened. I’ve said before that I’d rather be wrong, and eat crow, than be right and have the Hawks be in such a predicament.

Joe, it’s so funny to see you suggest that we trade Marvin and Shelden for Aldridge (the guy I spent forever, last year, hoping for) and Webster. Funny, you say? Well, first, Webster is a 2-3, the same position that Joe, Childress and Smith play, so where would he fit in? Two, as someone else noted, Portland would laugh at the offer, as Shelden as validated every pre-draft assessment of his likely skills (or lack thereof) at the NBA level. Third, you’re giving up Marvin unnecessarily. Truth is, if SS’s insights on Childress’ value around the league are right, and if the Hawks had moved on it before Portland traded Telfair, you could have gotten the rights to the pick that Aldridge was chosen with, and likely Jack, for our fifth pick (before we wasted it on Shelden, where Portland could have gone ahead and gotten Roy) and hometown boy, Childress. Now you’re suggesting we throw Marvin away, essentially paying more than we’d have had to if anybody in the Hawks front office new how to accurately project player valuations.

Every move Billy makes, is an overpayment to right a previous mistake. Now you’re suggesting another deal which would do exactly the same thing.

This just gets worse and worse (but the extra win or two that AJ brings us will probably successfully keep up from keeping our top-3 pick). Freakin’ brilliant.

By William

March 1, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

Here i come with my broken record. COACHING cost them the game last night.

You have to rest your players. Its that simple. Its the reason you saw Phoenix losing to Philly last night and the reason you saw the Hawks losing to the Hornets last night. If you watched the game, or any game for that matter, you will notice that at any given time, Joe will be really aggresive and score 6-8 points in a row then give it up the rest of the time. What he is doing is getting rest while on the court because Woodson is playing him the whole game.

Any coach knows, if you have a guy that you HAVE to play most of the game, pull him with a minute or two left at the end of a quarter and put him back in after a minute or two in the next quarter. That will give him roughly 10-15 minutes of real time rest, which is needed for the guy that is supposed to carry your offense. Woodson doesn’t do that. At all.

The hawks shot a great percentage so naturally they were going to get less offensive rebounds. The Hornets shot alot of jumpers so their were going to be alot of rebounds in strange places, so yeah, they are going to get offensive boards. BUT. Lowrenzen Wright cannot match up against a long, athletic rebounder. Neither can Zaza. But MAYBE that long, athletic but slim fellow on the Hawks bench could? You know, the one that is a good rebounder, challenges everyshot at the rim?

Here is my gripe. The Hawks are deep. I know, some might laugh at this, but they could honestly have a 10 man rotation and not have that much of a talent drop off. The Bench of Speedy, Salim, Childress, Solomon, Zaza is very strong.

You guys can give up on Sheldon, but I personally think he is going to be a very serviceable player in the league. But here is a statement that is really really true. If the Hawks were planing on keeping their pick, Sheldon Williams was the best man to pick up. Outside of him, the best big man prospect to play NOW was maybe Hilton Armstrong (not a better player than Sheldon) or Josh Boone(not a better player than Sheldon). If the Hawks were looking for a big in the draft, they made the right pick. It hasn’t worked out because Woodson wanted him to be dirty guy down low and that isn’t his game. Well then, woodson, adjust your thinking. he isn’t dirty guy down low. He is a guy that can score with his back to the basket and can rebound(he lacks the timing to be a NBA shotblocker). When he had a run in Decembe when he was averaging 12.5 rebounds a game, that was not a fluke. His 20-13 against Detroit was no fluke. Neither were the 15 rebounds against Milwalkee, the 16-8 against Utah, or the 12 boards against Cleveland.

In his last start for the team Sheldon put up 10-9 against the hornets while shooting 50% from the field. The next night he played for over 30 minutes, had 12 points and 7 rebounds shot 60% from the field, and hasn’t played more than 25 minutes since. THIS is why he is confused. yes, he was inconsistant….its called being a rookie. But he was producing then his minutes were abruptly cut. You can’t blame him for being confused.

By mykhalc

March 1, 2007 11:00 AM | Link to this

NEWS FLASH!!…..WOODSON IS COACHIN’ TO KEEP THE TOP 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! MAKES SENSE TO ME NOW!!!!

By HB Ando

March 1, 2007 11:05 AM | Link to this

SS, I think the balance to your point is somewhere in between. It does look like the draft is/was overhyped (and I’m as guilty as anyone for that). However, it is deep in big, athletic potential. And I’ve seen enough of Horford, Noah, the two Wrights, McRoberts (remember, he had a diskectomy this past summer-do you have to have an ACL to be given a little time to get to full strength?) and a handful of others, to feel confident that we could significantly upgrade our frontline if we got to keep our lottery pick. I’m trying not to beat a dead horse, but we have neither the picks, contracts/assets or cash, to successfully address that concern in the off-season, unless there is a change in management that improves the perception of Atlanta as a free-agent destination. While there was no guarantee that what we would have gotten in the lottery of this draft would have saved us, we’re left with little hope to improve the situation without it.

And, as various people have pointed out, with Billy’s horrible decisions in previous drafts, is it really sane to suggest he’d have done the right thing if entrusted with such a pick. The last few years indicate he would not. Kind of the classic “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”. As long as Billy is in charge, we’re screwed. No two ways about it.

I’m officially trading the devil I know for the devil I don’t. Bring on Belkin. Really, could it be any worse?

By Anakin Joe

March 1, 2007 11:11 AM | Link to this

Ando, you continue to live in the past. Its as if you think that once a mistake is made, that you can’t try to undo it. “We could have had Aldridge in June, so why try to acquire him now?” If Marvin could land us Aldridge, how is that “throwing away Marvin?” I try to think about the future, not the past. Webster would serve as a back-up. If nothing else, I have learned to appreciate depth in this season of play. It takes at least 9 quality players (assuming the coach uses his resources). If we were to trade Marvin, we’d essentially would have little depth at the SF/SG, as Salim is not valued by this coaching staff. I’m no Webster fan, but at least he’s got size and hits the open shot.

I know how easy it is for you to take shots at any ideas to fix the future (excluding tanking the season to play in the lottery). You’re our resident historian, stick to the past and let others focus on now and the future.

By g

March 1, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this

I watched the game and I go to every home game. Sometimes the coach does a bad job, but not all the time. I think the players need to be held responsible for 80% of this losing. Over half of the time the hawks players except JJ,JS do not have heart. ZaZa last night missing easy layup, Chill down there pump faking 7 times and then he couldn’t post up small a** Bobby Jackson. LW not blocking out, Speedy doing nothing as usual. AJ has played very decent in his 3 games. But overall I don’t see the extra effort. Can you coach effort?

By g

March 1, 2007 11:21 AM | Link to this

Anakin Joe, I didn’t say they were not tired. I was trying to say that when the other players are in they were not hustling and getting to loose balls. You have to keep them in. I know its wrong but you have to. We have nothing else especially last night. No one could out rebound David West and TC except J-Smoove

By William

March 1, 2007 11:22 AM | Link to this

Your idea doesn’t work because Portland values Webster and Aldridge. Aldridge has shown he is going to be a shot blocking low post scoring threat. They aren’t going to give him up. You might not be a fan of Webster, but you are pretty much alone. The Blazers love him also. he is a great shooter, has shown a great basketball IQ. I am not going to say don’t try to get Aldridge because you could have had him already (which I disagree with by the way. Portland would not have taken any SF’s on their team when they had Miles, Outlaw, Webster and were planning on drafting Roy. They were not going to add Childres, marvin or any other player of that size and position) you shouldn’t try to get him now. Its just that you are suggesting a horrible horrible trade.

By crs

March 1, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

Time to clean house at season’s end. Billy, Woodson, get packed, its time to go. Billy, Sheldon at 5, a second rounder for a third string pg, overpaid for Slowly Killing Us Claxton. Woodson, can’t keep the team motivated, young players progressing slowly at best, results are medicore at best. In terms of players, Joe and Josh have become the foundation. Childress is a nice sixth man. Lue would be an adequate backup PG. Marvin needs to play. Sheldon needs to play. Salim needs to play. Zaza is fine as a backup. This team still has no identity. The rest of the season, the team needs to get a look at Marvin and Salim and make some decisions. I keep thinking we are just a PG and a CTR away from atlease being competitive but it all starts with the firing of Woody and Billy.

By William

March 1, 2007 11:40 AM | Link to this

Here is the thing about basketball. Shots will be miss, players will miss “easy” shots (you know, those easy catching a lob that was over thrown and tossing up a layup back across your body and then the tip in over a 7-1 center “easy” layups) they are going to miss a guy on box outs…that is going to happen. The Hornets missed layups last night, missed “easy” shots, gave up rebounds they could have had, made silly fouls, everything that happens in basketball every night.

But coaching is pulling your star player to give him rest and sending a guy with no post up game down low because you notice that the refs are calling the game tight and getting him to the line because he is a 83 percent freethrow shooter. people blaming Childress for not posting up Bobby Jackson, he tried once, AJ threw a bad pass, Woodson yelled at him for not backing him down further on the catch and they NEVER RAN THE PLAY AGAIN. Saying he couldn’t post up Bobby Jackson because they didnt call the play is just plain silly.

Coaching told Byron Scott that hey, Chris has been resting. He has a 35 year old that has been playing basically every minute chasing Pargo around screens in the 4th. There is no way he is going to be able to stay with him, and calling iso plays for Chris Paul. Woodson sees his players sucking wind, that guys are cheating off his shooters because their shots are coming up short and leaves salim on the bench. The players played hard. When Josh gets a block because the guy had to sidestep Marvin williams stepping in for the charge, that was hustle on the part of both players. I am not a fan of lowrenzen but he was blocking out. He was blocking out a guy that has been averaging 15.8 rebounds a game in february and didn’t have the physical skills to keep him off the boards. They are being routinely outcoached to a horrific level.

By Ken Strickland

March 1, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Looks like the trapping, switching DEF Woodson implimented, to limit CPaul, was successful in the 1st half. But, it placed our bigs out of position and caused us to get killed on the OFF boards. We could have won that game if we had started out playing traditional DEF, or switched to it much sooner. Everyone but CPaul killed us in the 1st half, and he killed us in the 4th quarter.

By Clyde

March 1, 2007 12:12 PM | Link to this

“Time to clean house at season’s end. Billy, Woodson, get packed, its time to go.” - crs

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By doc

March 1, 2007 12:17 PM | Link to this

does anyone else pick up on all the cliche comments that woody makes? has anyone ever heard him really give any clarity to a game or situation? does it always sound like the same sound bite just a diiferent day. they “do it right”, “they play defense”, “they score as a team” …. have you ever heard him really break down a game and state what really happened situationally like he really understood any of it?

like what good is it to tell a kid to foul when if he does he is probably told when he comes out the situation wasnt right for a foul … catch my drift? that maybe, just maybe, he doesnt speak any clearer to his team about what he really wants and then just criticizes almost any manuever they make. then it becomes smart fouls he didnt take rather than the “dirty work”. it breaks down the confidence and players freeze ultimately, not able to make any choice; ala diaw, salim, sheldon, etc. the numbers that sheldon put up earlier in the season were not bad thanks to the earlier comments that addresses it and the team seemed to start off pretty well when he was starting after marvin went down and chills was frist off the bench. i really dont think he forgot how to play the game.

ando how true it is to state in effect that they got a number 5 to be a goon when it was supposed to be because he could play the game at a level that didnt need as much coaching. either you or i could have done that in our heyday. i am beginning to think the guy is coaching them down instead of up. that maybe more destructive than making errors i game management that many criticize and most are at a loss to defend after seeing it over and over now that he has a full contingent of players, that “full bench” he speaks of.

By Clyde

March 1, 2007 12:21 PM | Link to this

SPRING BREAK IS UPON US. ITS STARTING TO GET HOT OUTSIDE AND I HAVE JUST THE THING THAT WILL COOL YOU OFF. A FRESH NEW FIRE BILLY AND WOODY T-SHIRT!!!!! ON SALE FOR 10 DOLLARS!!!!! HOLLA AT ME AT ATLCONNECT@HOTMAIL.COM. GET THEM WHILE SUPPLIES LAST!!!

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By newkid

March 1, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this

From doc: “…the guy is coaching them down instead of up…”

Exactly my thought as I watched last night. Felt poorly for our guys (especially Josh) who were leaving it all on the floor, only to be unintentionally betrayed by a coach who’s just plain in over his head most nights.

By ray

March 1, 2007 9:13 PM | Link to this

Doc,

nice take on the Woodson subject. Your words coupled with what we’ve seen scream one thing: top assistant coach, not head coach.

Ando,

the reason you’re not laughing is it just isn’t funny. It would be truly a comedy of errors if we could step back and say “wow, good thing this isn’t real life for us” or “man, sure glad that was just a movie.” Unfortunately, it’s not just a show…it’s all too real. And I suppose a man that couldn’t pick the right players (admit it, Gasol was a lucky strike pick during Billy’s memphis tenure…just like Dallas got lucky with Nowitzki)also couldn’t pick the right coach. Although, there’s no excuse when there’s a million scouts out there watching players….

Joe, if it could happen, I’d say pull the trigger on the Portland trade idea. But why would Portland trade talent and good upside for something they already have? It would actually be more beneficial for them to hold onto those guys and see if they emerge as two starters or simply two guys really worth keeping (one bench, one starter). If not, they can package them as attractive bait for something they really need. Right now, they have the luxury of potentially watching an entire starting five emerge and develop. They’ve stockpiled talent better than we have…short run and long run. Why break that up for what we could offer? And besides, Billy probably would offer something absolutely crazy and get the door slammed on his afro. Beady-eyed….oh never mind.

By The Flash

March 2, 2007 10:25 AM | Link to this

Doc, Just read your post. Very grave. Hope you are feeling ok. See my reply on the previous blog. LOL