Hawks

By ajw

February 15, 2007 03:22 PM | Link to this

AMEN! Let’s keep it rolling Hawks. Last nights game was amazing! I kept hoping they would come back just like I do all the time when they are down. This timeI was rewarded.

By ajw

February 15, 2007 03:24 PM | Link to this

Can Joe refuse to accept the invite to the all star game? He should have never been snubbed anyways. He could use the rest anyway. Is sheldon in the rookie game?

By SW

February 15, 2007 03:27 PM | Link to this

Tim Hardaway is a thugged out idiot.

By Eric

February 15, 2007 03:33 PM | Link to this

No Landlord in the Rookies Game, as far as I know.

Anyone besides me think they need to be starting Speedy and/or Zaza? Both have played well lately…but maybe Woodie feels like they play better off the bench.

Sad to think that the stretch where they lost 10 of 11 is what’s keeping them from being a big story in the NBA. If they had won 5 of those games they’d be right in the thick of the playoff hunt.

By cowa

February 15, 2007 03:33 PM | Link to this

Smith was amazing last night, but realize we did this against a team without it’s best player (Brand) in the game. The interesting thing last night was Zaza playing great offensively, but just bad defensively. Kaman seemed to do whatever he wanted. Kaman didn’t do as well against Lo. Zaza REALLY has to bulk up if he wants to get a starting role back. He just looks frail out there hacking away.

This brings up some ideas as the trading deadline approaches next Tuesday. There’s really only one PG that I’m hearing available that I would want to see on the Hawks, and that’s Bibby. Unfortunately, it would take a lot and probably take us out of any chance at also getting a big 5, which seems to me to be a more pressing need. If we could actually get Bibby, he’s locked in for 2 or 3 years, so I would go for it (if we could also get rid of Speedy, who played well last night).

The bigs that are available are Washington’s big guys, Thomas and Haywood. Either one would help tremendously IMO. I read Thomas is the one to go, due to his constant initiating of fights with Haywood. He makes about $1.2 more than Haywood, so less room to acquire a PG if the franchise ever opens it’s pockets.

That guy (won’t put his name down) at ESPN suggests a possible Nets/Orlando trade of VC & Collins for Grant Hill and Darko, but NJ doesn’t like Darko and would try to get a 3rd team involved. Why not the Hawks? Darko coming here wouldn’t be the worst thing, especially if we could get Arroyo out of the deal as well!

By mississippi

February 15, 2007 04:08 PM | Link to this

It’s been a great close to the half for the team. Speedy has played well and Smith is on fire. If they can make it the last week of Feb. then March looks like a month they can make a run. I’m praying for a kidd to la trade. That would put the nets out of it and I think we can pass the knicks. Then we need Indy or Miami to fall.

I would love to see the hawks do something small to improve the team. The way things have been going lately, let’s let time improve. But that old story of Heyward and Haynes would be ideal.

By Don't drink and type

February 15, 2007 04:16 PM | Link to this

Can you have a resurgence if you’ve never had a surgence? Let’s not get carried away folks. Did we add a legit point guard? Uh, no. Did a top center sneak onto the roster while we weren’t looking? Again, nope. Is Billy Knight still the GM? Yepper. There’s a fall coming. Soon. I’m guessing right after the All Star game.

By Anakin Joe

February 15, 2007 04:19 PM | Link to this

cowa, I read somewhere that Orlando offered expiring deals for Ely but Charlotte took San Antonio’s comparable offer. It is very infrequent that you will see division rivals trade between themselves. Charlotte didn’t want to see Ely play well for the Magic and I doubt we can pick up Haywood or Thomas (without over-paying in terms of traded players) from the Wizards. That being said, if Grunfeld (who is simply a top GM) would take fair market value (or less) for either of those guys, I’m game. I like what Thomas can bring, although he is wildly inconsistent on both ends of the floor. But both will likely be very motivated wherever they land (yet another reason for Ernie to trade them outside the division or conference).

Ando, what was our point differential on that 4 game western swing? -13? An absolutely useless stat.

By Wedgie Evans

February 15, 2007 04:30 PM | Link to this

No, Woody shouldn’t be starting Speedy and Zaza. One of the main reasons this team has been playing better is because Lorenzen Wright and Royal Ivey are more physical and set a tone to start the game. Speedy and Zaza are better suited to coming off the bench. Zaza is not a good defender, and will never be a good defender, but it’s good to have him come off the bench when the team needs points.

The Hawks could still use a big guy who can rebound and block shots (to take pressure off Josh Smith) and contribute a few points as well.

By mavid

February 15, 2007 04:31 PM | Link to this

ando, i think you may underestimate the benefits of “organic growth” for such a young team. while there is no doubt we need an upgrade at the 1 and 5, isnt it conceivable that in 2 years we could be at or above the level of the wizards… i mean conceivably, and perhaps as early as next season (but more than likely in 2 seasons):

jj = gil marvin = jamison smoove = butler

plus, we do have the cap-space to go after FA’s (although there is the ownership dilemma)… one thing is for certain, ATL is a city that a lot of NBA players would like to come to (ownership problem excluded)

Plus, the signing of JJ came as a surprise… NO ONE really saw it coming the season beforehand. SO, who knows what might happen in terms of trades and FA signings in the next couple offseasons. I think SS (the blog z) would agree with that assessment.

Believe me, i would love oden and durant too, but there are other ways to tackle our needs.

What are your thoughts on shawn williams formerly of BC? Dude appears to be exactly what we need if he is able to overcome his “behavioral” problems (which to my knowledge involved smoking too much reefer)

Anyways, can’t wait to see JJ in the all star game (even if he does play all of 3 minutes), AND I STILL think he got snubbed for the 3-point contest

By John B.

February 15, 2007 04:51 PM | Link to this

I know this is a shot in the dark, but what about Dwight Howard? He had stated that he wanted to play in ATL the year he was drafted, and I’m banking that he still would. I know his rookie contract ends soon, and he may not re-up with the Magic. Do you think he could be that inside presence at the 5, we so desperately need? It’s a long shot, but I’d take the chance on a guy like Howard.

By Orlando Rivera

February 15, 2007 04:54 PM | Link to this

mavid,

I’m glad someone other than myself sees the comparison to this Hawks team being like the Wizards, a team of high-flyers who can ring up the scoreboard. Problem is, Atlanta doesn’t have a coach who can take advantage of the immense talent that’s already here. If Eddie Jordan or another offensive minded coach was here this team would be much, much better in the standings. Each Hawks win will mask that fact.

There will be no trades thanks to the ownership screwup.

By Cedric

February 15, 2007 04:54 PM | Link to this

We need a young up and coming bruiser like the Jazz acquired in the draft from Louisiana Tech Milsap. He seems to be hungry for the ball while he is out there. And he came at a bargain in the 2nd round. Good scouting got the Jazz a steal in the draft. We might have a similar player if Coach Woody would just play S. Jones min. at a time and see what he is capable of. In the backcourt, I like the rotation I would just want to see Salim in their with JJ a lot more w/both Josh’s and Lo Wright. Good mix of scoring and Defense. ZaZa just don’t get it done and you could see that against Kaman last night. I’m glad Brand was not playin. A very tough stretch after the break, but hopefully we can make it to March OK, then we would have a legitimate shot at making a reasonable run.

By Tyger

February 15, 2007 04:56 PM | Link to this

Baby Steps 2

The 3-1 road trip was huge in the development of the Hawks. Kudos to everyone in the organization from BK to Estaban.

Even more kudos to JJ for making the Allstar team. Its not as fulfilling being an injury replacement, but its good for the franchise altogether.

Now is the time to accelerate the rebuild process. Shrewd mgt. can make a minor move that doesnt compromise the draft, cap space or summer free agency, while at the same time moving the team forward.

We are all in agreement that the team doesnt need wholesale change, just pieces, so lets’ try and get at least one now.

I think fixing the backcourt is much easier than finding that dominant BIG. McGloire, PJ Brown or Nazr Muhammad would be an immediate upgrade and come relatively cheap. But any of those may compromise our core and, other than Speedy, I generally like our team.

However, there are some other “useful” players out there that I believe can be had: Shannon Brown, Ronald Murray, Jarvis Hayes, Mike James, Juan Dixon, even Larry Hughes.

However, let’s be realistic. We cant do anything big, so I suggest taking a flier on Telfair/Olowokandi.

Boston has given up on Telfair, a true point w/ upside; we have given up on Salim. Its a fair deal. Estaban and Olowokandi make the deal work but at the same time could benefit both teams.

Kandi is BIG and plays defense, but Boston has gone in another direction. We need vet BIGS and they wont come any cheaper, our #1 criteria.

Telfair would do better in ATL with scorers and athletes around him. Kandi would give us a BIG defensive presence even if for limited minutes.

Boston could try and develop both Salim and Batista or let them go. Theyve chosen Delonte, Rondo and Allan Ray over Telfair; Perkins, Jefferson, Powe over Kandi so they could use the roster spots and cap room as well.

Telfair is owed $2M next year and the following is the team exception, so if it doesnt work, we lose little. But if it does, we got a PG for 10 years.

And Kandiman makes vet min $1M, with half season gone and league kicking in and still plays better D than ZaZa. Its a no-brainer.

By Anakin Joe

February 15, 2007 05:14 PM | Link to this

tyger, PJ Brown would be perfect if we could sign him to a 2-3 year deal. Unfortunately, he is the type of player who will value playing for a ring over playing time. But he would be the perfect starting center for our team. We need a guy who is physical on defense but won’t clog the lane on offense. And of course, an experienced player is better than a youngster (in my opinion). But like I said, he would much more likely go to a contender or go home (back to Hornets) next season. But good call on PJ.

Next season, I hope we consider guys like Joe Smith and Danny Fortson as well (and Aaron Williams if he is an UFA). Those guys will not likely cost more than what we paid for Wright but I think either would provide more of a legit PF presence off the bench.

That assumes, that Shelden doesn’t come back healthy and more agile. I’d like to see him lose a little muscle mass and work on his agility. I know he can’t become cat-like quick (ala Ben Wallace), but he clearly needs more explosiveness and quickness to be a contributing factor.

By St. Bernard

February 15, 2007 05:40 PM | Link to this

I’m with Tyger when he talks about Telfair. I actually wanted the guy when he was in Portland. Take a chance and give him a chance with these wings running up and down the floor. If we could throw in Kandi that would be great, but if not pull off something small for Telfair.

By HB Ando

February 15, 2007 05:41 PM | Link to this

All these ideas about moves we could or should make, when there is simply no reason to believe that any moves will be made. I don’t get it.

And Kandi hasn’t put in an honest days’ work in over five years. He’s a bum, with no heart.

Joe, almost all statistics are pointless in a sample size as small as 4 games (5% of a full NBA season). Nice try, though…..

Mavid, no doubt good things could happen in two years. If ownership changes and the front office is overhauled. But I’m getting chastised for looking as far as next year, and not appreciating the improvements for now, so how do I contemplate an even longer time line, without being assaulted for my rigid negativity. Folks like Anakin have been saying they don’t want to wait for several years out. Focus on the now. No more youth. Get some veterans in the mix. It’s hard to be held to that standard, and then have to be accountable for what might happen in two years.

I see what we have this year, and wonder what realistically can happen next, depending on whether the ownership thing is resolved. No resolution equals likely status quo, where I expect that this lineup, unchanged save for another year of experience, is, at best, competing for an 8 seed next year. That doesn’t excite me.

By HB Ando

February 15, 2007 05:43 PM | Link to this

Since an earlier post got lot’s of response from folks, and I replied to several folks, right after SS started this new blog (I always seem to do that), I thought I’d bring this over, for better or for worse:

By HB Ando

February 15, 2007 03:31 PM | Link to this

Myc, Very cool points. I like, and appreciate, what you are saying. I am stuck regarding my opinion of the front office. My fears for the near future DO damage my ability to enjoy the improvements that ARE occurring on a nightly basis.

Abe, I honestly (heh heh) would prefer to be wrong. I’d rather see this team acquire, through any means, a legitimate big man, and make strides towards being relevant in the NBA again. I still believe that by fans utilizing forums such as these, and making their voices heard that they will settle for no less than the best, that necessary changes are still possible. If the collective voice, of the Atlanta Hawks’ fan, is that we are completely satisfied with the job they are doing, the direction they are going, then there is less pressure on ownership and management to address the obvious shortcomings of their efforts. I believe that the only way for this franchise to ever achieve greatness is to have the absolute highest expectations placed on them, by their fans.

As I’ve already said, several times, I’m very much enjoying watching them play better basketball. But I also want the organization to hear that they haven’t fulfilled their obligation to the ticket-buying fans of Atlanta by putting the best possible product on the floor. I want them to hear that the avoidable mistakes that have been made matter to folks. And if no one is saying it out loud, on what we’d like to believe is a solid forum to do so, then they might think that they don’t have to do anymore to satisfy the fans. I just find it necessary to push for accountability. It exists in every facet of the business world. It exists in relationships. Why shouldn’t it exist for the owners and front office of this franchise?

Ken, please give me one solid reason to believe that Belkin would trade away Johnson and Smith? To be honest, he’d be welcome to trade the rest, as long as it’s part of a well-designed plan to improve the franchise. Seems kind of silly to view players of a perpetually losing franchise as untradeable. From what I’ve been reading here, most folks would welcome trading Zaza, Speedy and Shelden (with the latter two, we’d be repairing the damage of horrible decisions by Billy Knight), if it brought us a big man that would improve the team. So why should that be a scary notion? I’d like to see current ownership make a big deal. It’s one of the first things I’d hope Belkin would do if he took over.

I actually hesitated in saying what I did, knowing that it would largely be attacked. I decided that being the bad guy was better than letting off the pressure I think is necessary, to be consistently and continuously applied to ownership and the front office.

No matter how many times I’ve outlined the pragmatic roadblocks to necessary acquisitions and roster changes, that seem likely to preclude us from realistically adding a much needed franchise big man, no one has yet tried to argue that those roadblocks exist, nor offer a viable plan that would resolve those impediments. I take that to mean that my concerns on where we go from here, over and above the gradual improvements of the existing, young roster, are pretty valid.

I’ll continue to hope that calling attention to those challenges, most of which are the direct result of Billy’s bad decisions and/or ownerships’ devastating, ego-driven divorce fiasco, will ultimately result in either hoped for changes in the make up of the front office and ownership, or a perceived need on the existing parties’ part to find a way to adequately address the problems they have created.

Appreciating the improvements of the existing roster, and demanding more from, or changes to, the decision makers of this franchise, are not mutually exclusive. I don’t know why it’s so hard for some of you to simply accept that I have a different agenda than many of you, in coming here and posting my thoughts. It’s OK with me that some folks want to come here and root-root-root for the home team. That is their right, and their choice, for how they want to utilize this forum.

But I haven’t believed in Billy Knight’s plan from the get go. And I believe my concerns and fears have been routinely validated. And I don’t see where we go from here, that takes this team to a desired, competitive level. Without significant changes to the roster, this team caps out as a borderline 8th seed. So I’m going to keep asking tough questions, and leveling the highest expectations, on the powers that be.

Again, no apologies.

By HB Ando

February 15, 2007 05:49 PM | Link to this

So, Joe, what you are hoping for is that a 24-year old Shelden, will come back next season, with the very traits that everyone knew he lacked, as a finished product with no projected, additional upside? Are you sure you’re not Billy Knight? Did either of you not get the scouting reports on Shelden? He is what he is. He’s not going to get more mobile. He spent 4 years under the best training facilities and staff in college basketball. Don’t you think those issues would have been the primary focus for him at Duke? If you don’t think he’s had every training regimen known to man kind, designed to increase quickness, mobility and lateral agility, you’re just not being realistic. Those are the things you expect, or hope for, from the 19 or 20 year old, big man prospect. That’s the choice you make between drafting on potential and taking a more finished product, with a perceived lower ceiling.

Shelden is exactly as advertised. It’s the reason nobody on planet earth had him rated as high as the fifth overall pick, except Billy Knight.

I swear, sometimes its like talking to a six year-old with you.

By Ryder

February 15, 2007 06:29 PM | Link to this

I’m in total agreement with Ando. I know we would love to see things improve on this team, but let’s face facts. This team is horribly mismanaged and in today’s NBA this team will be no better than an 8th seed. I believe JJ and the fans deserve better than that.

I’m sure if this were the Celtics, Knicks, or Lakers Stern would’ve solved this ownership fiasco from day one. Since Atlanta doesn’t seem to rake in the big endorsements or games on TNT the league could care less if this team implodes or what. Anyway, the fact remains is that I’m very surprised by Atlanta’s record given the “ego-driven” ownership situation and an incompetent GM/coach. JJ should be elevated to hero status for not wanting out after dealing with this mess.

Go back to the draft. Everyone on the planet knew Atlanta was getting Shelden with the 5th pick. What idiot GM lets that out of the bag before the draft? Shelden has done very little while I’m seeing here in DC Aundray Blatche blocking shot after shot and averaging 10 boards a game since Antwan Jamison was out. Guess what folks? He was the 49th pick last year! Long and atheltic, and he plays defense in the paint. When has Shelden showed that kind of prowess? Sorry for the rant, but for once I’d like to see BK (if he’s capable) of building an actual TEAM! Sheesh, two great building blocks in JJ & Josh Smith, and the rest of the team is full of backups. Even in the East Atlanta will not rise above the fray unless they get a serious defensive presence in the middle. Guess what though, the ownership is in no hurry to resolve this.

Even if Belkin does get this team I doubt he’ll do anything with it. However, I do believe he’ll rid of almost all of BK’s mistakes as he kicks BK & Woodson out the door.

As for fixing this roster, anything short of a miracle in the draft won’t fix it. I mean think about this, what players sans JJ & Josh Smith would any team in their right mind want to pick up? Ok, maybe Salim for extra scoring punch but that’s it. Unless Marvin becomes the star that he’s “supposed” to be, then all this talk about the 8th seed is moot.

I just want a team with a plan! Is that too much to ask?

By jhan

February 15, 2007 07:57 PM | Link to this

I think several teams would be interested in having Marvin, Childress & ZaZa on their roster. They are all great players coming off the bench. Just not starters at this time.

By infamouskrs

February 15, 2007 08:07 PM | Link to this

first of all…i would love to hear from some of those people that we’re spending their evenings typing away trashin’ the JJ trade! RESPECT DUE. this guy has been “el-fu’ago” ! Clyde….can we get another shirt made, “TEAM WARRIOR” !

the guy plays 42+ every regular season game…..plays for the national team (all summer)…..then comes out and becomes an all-star with LITERALLY NO OFF-TIME…….

as the record gets better, Joe begins to hear the chant….”MVP, MVP” ! if not this year, in a few to come (without Billy steering the ship) !

CONGRATS JOE “Super 2” ! you said it wasn’t important…but we all knew it ment the world 2 ya! Light em’ up!

By mykhalc

February 15, 2007 08:19 PM | Link to this

ANDO, same here on the earlier post thing. hope you get a laugh outta this one…

By mykhalc

February 15, 2007 04:45 PM | Link to this

ANDO, i think i figured it out for ya bro. you NEED ONE MORE ENTITY!!! we’ll all know who DARTH ANDRO is and the over-the-topness that he brings!! then there’s ANDO who is a bit more grounded but still a BK hater and can’t get past that. so you need a ‘DRO who is the more hip, grounded, and can appreciate the moment of the 3!!!you feelin’ it????LOL

might be problem on which one of the 3 of you gets the killa seat when you, DOC and JHAN head to arena to catch the YOUNG GUNS!!!!LOL

By Tyger

February 15, 2007 08:34 PM | Link to this

Aundray Blatche is not a rookie to compare with Shelden. Maybe next year, but not now, Shelden deserves the benefit of a rookie year, they all do.

Shelden dominated the ACC, there’s no reason to believe he wont do the same in the NBA. As he matures and learns the NBA game, he will pick up where he left off at Duke. He is a notch below Elton Brand and was a good pick for the teams needs.

Realistically, we should know that the Hawks cant do anything major considering the ct. rulings over the summer.

By Volman

February 15, 2007 08:41 PM | Link to this

“No resolution equals likely status quo, where I expect that this lineup, unchanged save for another year of experience, is, at best, competing for an 8 seed next year. That doesn’t excite me.”

Ando, that doesn’t excite you? The Hawks team who hasn’t been in the playoffs for almost a decade competing for respect and the playoffs? You can’t expect for this team to win the Championship, but with some pieces I think this team is going to be good in the future.

I’d take competing for 8th, than “Trying to lose” to hopefully get a ping pong ball to draft a good player. (not saying you’re saying that)

By mavid

February 15, 2007 08:45 PM | Link to this

don’t get it twisted and think shelden will become a boozer or a brand

nope, not gonna happen

By infamouskrs

February 15, 2007 08:47 PM | Link to this

in EVERY KIND OF WAY said….SHELDON WILLIAMS was a huge stretch at the 5th pick! why does anyone EVER debate this?

By infamouskrs

February 15, 2007 08:51 PM | Link to this

considering most guys coming into the league are 20..maybe 21, a guy that was drafted that HIGH in the draft, at the age of 24..was EXPECTED to be an immediate impact! check the stats to see what the team wasted on a top 5 pick.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

(is there a patent on this yet, lol).

By HB Ando

February 15, 2007 08:54 PM | Link to this

Myc, brother, I’m having enough trouble managing two personalities. I add a third, and who knows how ugly it gets……LOL

When JHan is offering the seats, he has the absolute right to ask for whichever Ando/Andro he wants. Beggars aren’t choosers, and you know I switch persona’s like Paris Hilton switches lovers.

At home, watching them play, I’m actually most like ‘Dro. I’ve got an axe to grind here, and I’m willing to take the heat to maintain my focus on the need for change. Five years ago the majority was feelin’ George W. Time has a way of seeing majority perspective evolve to minority. I’ve had a vision for this team for years. And, despite my frustrations, we ARE closer than we were a few years ago. But the toughest moves are ahead. And it remains to be seen whether they’ll be made, sooner than later (or if ever). Atlanta is too good a market, for the NBA, not to have a solid franchise. This should be a top NBA town. It’s not, and it’s still a long way from being.

Let’s see what kind of momentum we can take, coming out of the all-star break. Johnson is a given, now. He’s gotten his due as an all-star. Josh Smith is the real story. Is he going to finish this season off on an upward, downward, or level arc? Are we looking at the beginning of years of maddening inconsistency (I very much doubt it), or the emergence of a legitimate, consistent star performer? How close are we to seeing the real Marvin Williams? Is he more valuable to us as an emergent player, or our one truly valuable, and tradeable, asset? Can Speedy stay healthy, and give us the 12-6-2 we hoped for, or continue to be cause for my ongoing, incessant second-guessing of every Billy Knight move?

There are a lot of relevant questions, worth watching, as we head into the final 30 games. Seems like we can expect the most exciting, on-court product we’ve had in years. I won’t let go of what might have been, with better drafting by Billy, until Billy is gone. Just like I find conversations about Babcock pointless. He’s gone. And comparisons between the two, which many have used to support Billy, over the last few years, amount to the lesser of two evils (and I’m not willing to concede which loser was worse).

Hopefully, Jhan will take me and doc to a game or two, after the break.

Did I mention that Jhan is the man? Also, he’s one of the best home renovators in the Atlanta area (don’t know if you guys knew that). So if any of you ever need major changes to your house, or are in the market to invest in a fixer upper, and re-do it for sale, you need to give Jhan a shout!

Anybody got a prediction for the dunk contest outcome?

By HB Ando

February 15, 2007 08:59 PM | Link to this

mavid/krs, thanks for saving me the energy……..

Vol, it doesn’t. I’m not interested in an extended stretch of mediocrity. Billy had a chance to make decisions that would have made this team a player in the East over the next few years. We’re way out of position for that now. We’ve got significant impediments to get over that hump. Where is that franchise big going to come from?

And, out of respect for everyone’s patience, I’m not going to rehash…….

Now how’s that for a first?

By mykhalc

February 15, 2007 09:14 PM | Link to this

gotta agree with **ANDO and INFAMOUSKRS about SHELDEN. the things that he does bring to the team DEFINITELY coulda been had at a later pick. don’t know what he’ll become but it’s OBVIOUS, what he brings as the fifth pick is limited!!!

this comparison might not be the best but…MARVIN at #2 and SHELDEN at #5 (different years i know) and MOST would say the upside on MARVIN is many times greater!!! so at the least, we would hope SHELDEN’s upside would be there to see. but i really think he is what he is. i think at the most we gotta hope that he decides to become a reboundin’ machine!!! because i personally do not see his upside as a shot blocker nor great post-up player. but evidently he’s got the b’ball smarts. so there’s no reason why he can’t become a very solid rebounding role player. but is that what we needed at the 5th pick????

By mykhalc

February 15, 2007 09:44 PM | Link to this

and we do have to give SHELDEN his props for bein’ able to step into the startin’ lineup when the injury bug hit. ‘cause all ALL know he WAS NOT ready but he hung in there and was steady!!

By HB Ando

February 15, 2007 09:45 PM | Link to this

What I’m (been) sayin’…….

By mavid

February 15, 2007 09:59 PM | Link to this

i keep saying it, but i actually felt sick to my stomach when stern announced shelden

i knew the dude was a bust. sean may absolutely ABUSED him in college. seriously, look up the numbers… may put up a couple games of 20-20 against him

roy and millsap was who we shouldve drafted (but its over now)

By doc

February 15, 2007 10:15 PM | Link to this

funny hpw the best and smartest in the nba smart guys were so wrong last year that the three bigs including our sheldon were gone by the fifth pick last year are being outplayed by two 2nd rounders, that means all the gm’s are as stupid as bk. shame the owners are paying such big money to evaluate talent. the draft is a crap shoot and no team is dependent on it nor should we spend so much time trashing sheldon when there are two other guys in the same boat and maybe a third as early picks that have not lived up to their billing either. give the guy a break.

ando, you almost sound giddy tonight in comparison to the usual dark side. you of course will always be right so maybe you ought to drop the subject and i say this with no malice. the only thing that could make you wrong is if the team wins it all this year or you will always be saying if we had only done this we would have ben so much better off so much quicker. we all know it dude, try ando light for a while or ‘dro as myc says it.

By mykhalc

February 15, 2007 10:16 PM | Link to this

ANDO, i know i’m late on it but gotta remember i’m the BOXSCORE KING out here in the BAY!!LOL so i’ve held off sayin’ some things until i was able to observe for myself!!! but you are right. it IS what you’ve said and been sayin’!!!!! NOW I KNOW TOO!!!

By Sir Stealth

February 15, 2007 10:18 PM | Link to this

So, before the trend of college players leaving early for the NBA, did everyone assume that no player drafted would ever improve after his rookie season because college had made him a finished product. Did all players peak at their rookie season? Makes no sense.

Shelden may or may not become significantly better than he is now, but the college game is way different than the pro game and he certainly still has a good chance.

Also, saying that Sean May abused Shelden in college is just wrong. Shelden’s record against May was something like 6-2. You can’t just look at two players playing a similar position and guarding each other part of the time as an explicit matchup. Shelden was more in charge of anchoring the entire teams defense and holding down the lane as a security blanket given Duke’s overplaying style up top. On offense, there were often other scoring options, so Shelden wasn’t looked to to put up as many points. Shelden’s aggresive shotblocking ability also naturally opened May up for more rebounds. The Sean May-Shelden matchup should therefore be looked at in terms of team outcome and not basic stats.

By mykhalc

February 15, 2007 10:42 PM | Link to this

STEALTH, you are right. who knows what SHELDEN will become. but your point about how different the NBA and college games are, makes it THAT MUCH MORE of an uphill climb for him!! and i’m know i’m not sayin’ anythin’ you don’t know, but the NBA cats play faster, stronger, and more above the rim. SHELDEN probably will not play too much faster nor higher. he probably will play smarter, stronger, and more efficient. that’s why i hope he concentrates on his reboundin’. ‘cause that’s the one place i think he MIGHT excel??!!! but it’s just my opinion….

By infamouskrs

February 15, 2007 10:45 PM | Link to this

SHELDON as a NUMBER (5) pick……

those of you that believe this was a WISE selection….touch 1…..all of the rest of us REASONABLE armchair GMs with COMMon sense of how to build aa competitive NBA LEVEL CHAMPIONSHIP (at least) caliber team……dial 2…..

By infamouskrs

February 15, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

the Colts…jumped THAT hump….ATL has the talent, don’t get me wrong…..but is the team’s current ownership on THAT same level?

easy answer response, follows here:

By ray

February 15, 2007 11:14 PM | Link to this

Man, who the heck is out there comparing Shelden to Elton Brand? NOT EVEN CLOSE. If he dominated the ACC, then why did lil’ freshman Ty Hansbrough drop 27 on him? Hmmm? And what happened in the final four? Hmmm? I hoped at one time that he might develop into an Elton Brand type. But I just DO NOT see it happening.

Ando, as good as your speeches are about toughing it out and taking the heat, asking the tough questions and what not…I wish there was something to make me believe that those owners and that damn GM are paying one speck of attention to this blog or the fans in general. I’m just so ticked off by the whole thing. When is that trade deadline again?

Another thing, since I’m somewhat revved up. I enjoyed the win against the Clippers. But something stands out to me in the “which forward is the best trade bait” debate. Marvin Williams played 43 minutes and had ONE rebound. You know, you can have a night when your shot just doesn’t fall, when your opponent blows by you continually…But come on, even Shelden does better than that! Even if it’s in garbage time sometimes. He’s simply GOT to do better than this or he is worse than a Harrington clone. Considering the production we are getting from the two Joshes, Marvin is the one I place on the trade bubble (whenever that is and wherever it is supposed to take us). MARVIN, GRAB SOME FREAKIN’ GLASS!

By Anakin Joe

February 16, 2007 09:47 AM | Link to this

Ando, most players do not plateau at age 24. And most players do not plateau after 52 NBA games. Shelden didn’t look awful when he went for 20 & 10 (or something like that) earlier in the season against a healthy Pistons front line. He had a decent 6-8 week run to start the season. Earlier, he was a victim of rookie mistakes and Woody’s dysfunctional substitution pattern. Now, he’s locked behind one of the most exciting young PFs in the conference, a guy named Josh Smith. I have no reason to believe that Shelden couldn’t pull down 7-8 boards in 28 minutes of playing time. His post defense is good, but he’s not a shot-blocker. Mahorn was a great defender and never blocked a shot (same with Charles Oakley).

You seem to quickly dismiss players after a short sample of time. I tend to believe that most guys (especially college upper classmen), are willing to continue to work and develop their craft. Playing college ball takes discipline, dedication and desire. Too many practices, too many games and too much homework. That’s why I prefer college guys to high schoolers. They don’t avoid the more challenging path to success. The wild card remains Woody’s dysfunctional substitution patterns and the emergence of Smith as our PF in terms of Shelden’s ability to perform.

One more thing, just because Shelden was not worthy of the #5 pick, does not mean that he is useless. If we learned anything in December it is the importance of quality depth. We need Shelden to find a way to be more productive next season because there will likely come a time when he will need to play more than the 4-6 minutes he’s been getting lately.

By doc

February 16, 2007 09:50 AM | Link to this

well i must admit i have beeen disappointed in sheldon, wasnt pleased necessarily with the choice as i wamted roy but i tend to understand the reason for it i think. i really think he is getting trashed unnecesarily at this point and will throw in what i have seen. we needed a cheap power forward that could play, now. i compared him to dwight gooden who was also drafted by bk but then for the griz. i compared the rook numbers hoping to find a glimpse of what we might have hoping to see maybe a bit of a trial for gooden, you know the learning curve, didnt find it as gooden has given the same numbers annually that sheldon to date hasnt duplicated but might have if i took just the part of the season that he started. wont extrapolate but go further into what might be to his credit and what we meeded at the time of the choice.

i stepped back and looked at what he has given this team and if you look at it in that context he may have given a lot. he also may have an injury that allows him to be walking wounded. unlike aj i dont want to know as there might be a team that hasnt gotten the word on him through their scouts as to what limitations he has right now. if i remember it is his left shoulder and if i am sheldon i dont want anyone to take to great an advantage of the situation by knowing my limitations as the further you get up the scale of sports it is all about exploiting weakness not your own strenghths. ando you know this and so do you aj among many otherr savvy bloggers here, we just dont look closely night in and night out to see how limited his range of motion it, maybe we will find out at the end of the season as he goes for athroscopic surgery or he goes into rehab to make it stronger after finally allowing it to heal if he doesnt hurt it further. i assure you i have seen disabled typists with injuries far less than his complain loudly about their limitations but yet to hear him complain or flinch. he may be a lot toughter tha we give him credit.

now what did he bring you ask? well you know when he was healthy at the beginning of the season there was a missing part called marvin and speedy. when marvin was down werent we about 8 and 9 as sheldon played solid minutes at the four position, josh smith looked pretty good at three. so you might not think that marvin and speedy are the componets that make a difference too much. not too fast, as smash has flourished at the four with marvin back so we and he might know which area he is to concentrate on. we asked the question this summer and at the beginning of the season and even during the draft as sheldon probaly was a good pick looking only forward when things hadnt quite been established as we see it now. i remember how out of the flow smash looked when he was playing more the three role, dont you?. it still didnt hurt the team as much as they were about .500 with sheldon in. funny zaza seemed to play better with sheldon at four than with smash there. that may be what the team has to learn as adjustmaents occur. we slumped badly when a succession of injuries took over with first chills going down, then lue and finally smash himself going out. no sheldon couldnt make up for it but if you look to what he is to bring he may not bring more than a shane battier does or bowen for the spurs and that is relatively solid play that doesnt beat you. i can settle for that. though i wanted roy and as someone says; “wouldnt roy and milsaps been better?”, i couldnt agree more and i get a sick feeling but you know all of that is only said after we know how all things have played out. was sheldon picked too early? yes, definitely but we had a budget and had to make sure we got someone who could contribute and not take a long shot risk out of div 2 ball whgere he wasnt playing against comparable players. makes sense to me and looking back with open eyes i see where sheldon maybe had a bigger impact than we credit him for as the team didnt tank until there were too few soldiers out on the court. THAT is where i know that it would have been helpful if the owners had spent a bit more and made the blockbuster trade for all that would have brought in the two or three guys that the pacers ultimately got. now can anyone answer who stopped the trade, was it belkin’s lawyers, the spirit’s lack of committment to the future as they see the handwring on the wall or bk? i really doubt it was the latter as bk’s pedigree came form the guys who finally swung the deal with the warriors, none other than walsh and a guy by the name of bird. it is about the owners is still what i see.

By Ken Strickland

February 16, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this

A lot of what is being said about Shelden was also said about a former NBA player named Charles Oakley. Offensively he was stiff & mechanical, he couldn’t jump(if anyone ever saw him dunk please speak up)and could’t post up. He did develop a decent jumper after being traded to NY.

No one can doubt Shelden’s rebounding prowess, on both ends of the court. He is our only real postup player, but it doesn’t show because we don’t run a postup OFF. I see Shelden potentially as a more athletic, more OFF gifted, less physical version of Oakley. That wouldn’t be a bad thing to become.

Stop waiting for the Hawks to make any kind of trade that will address our interior problems. I don’t see any reason to change anything until after we determine our draft position. Remember, if we are extremely fortunate, we could end up with the following. (1)Finish in the top 3 and retain our Phoenix pick, giving us 2 1st RD selections(add INDY’s pick). (2)We miss the Phoenix pick, but INDY misses the playoffs, which still gives us a lottery pick, and a shot at Ogden or Durant(unless it’s lottery protected) (3)we get unrealistically lucky and end up getting both picks in the lottery. Worst case, we end up with INDY’s pick. We could move up in the draft by trading the INDY pick, plus a player and possibly one of next yr 1st RD picks. Remember, we still retain the Phoenix pick if we don’t get it this yr.

We can also hope a team like the Knicks finish 1st or 2nd in the lottery. Since they’re already strong in the middle, with Curry and Frye, they might be willing to trade down. If they decided to keep the pick and go after Ogden or Durant, they would certainly be willing to part with Frye. A front line of Marvin, or Childress, JSmith and Frye, backed up by Zaza and Wright, would definitely take us to the next level. What do you think?

By RA

February 16, 2007 11:20 AM | Link to this

In defense of poor Shelden Williams, a young man who had been tried, convicted, and sentenced as a failure before he’d even unpacked his dormroom. This guy has had to hold his own against centers and power forwards all year and he’s had to play a lot more than he ever should have because of Atlanta’s inury situation this year, a fact so often looked over by the critics.

Now, honestly, I wouldn’t have taken Shelden Williams at the fifth pick. That was a mistake, but the boy has come in and played hard, and he does have a place in the NBA. Folks, please stop acting like every other top ten pick except ours has come off like gangbusters, that’s not true either. (Half those guys won’t even be in the league in a couple of years!) Just back up off Shelden. He’s doing the best he can.

As for Woodson, considering Atlanta’s injury situation,he’s done about as well as anybody else could have and better than many.

By Brian L.

February 16, 2007 11:55 AM | Link to this

Ken- I think you have some very good points. Some of these guys love J-Smoove, JJ, and Marvin but then they want to say Fire BK for decisions on Speedy (who has been hurt) ZaZa and Sheldon. THIS IS RIDICULOUS.

I’ve said it a thousand times on these blogs, we have a great young nucleus that BK has put together and Woody has them playing hard 90% of the time.

WE KNOW WE NEED HELP AT 1 AND 5 (BK KNOWS THIS TOO) But if any of you bashers would like to tell us how to get those pieces without letting go of the great young talent you already have then I’m all ears. THE ONLY WAY IS TIME!!! Build through the Draft. Sometimes we’ll get STARS and sometimes we’ll get solid players and even the occasional bust. We are building a solid team.

By HB Ando

February 16, 2007 01:13 PM | Link to this

Gee, Brian, the WAY would have been for Billy to draft one, or both of those positions, instead of drafting 15 forwards. The WAY would have been doing a better job of protecting this years’ draft pick. That’s the WAY it SHOULD have been done. Since he didn’t, we’re now behind the 8-ball on those very issues. That’s on Billy Knight. Period.

By HB Ando

February 16, 2007 01:21 PM | Link to this

Joe, essentially, every second team big man in the NBA is capable of giving you 7-8 boards, if given 28 minutes. How does that equate to value with the fifth overall pick? That’s just a stupid point, sir.

myc said it concisely, “but the NBA cats play faster, stronger, and more above the rim. SHELDEN probably will not play too much faster nor higher.” Him getting smarter is what almost all long-term role players do, to stay in the league with the more talented, first-tier players. My criticism’s of his weaknesses continue to be in the context of his coming in as th fifth overall selection. I’ve never said he was useless. I’ve only said that what he brings to the team could have been gotten off of the waiver wire (Mikky Moore), or the undrafted free agency (Udonis Haslem), or the second round (Paul Millsap). Don’t seek to make my position something it’s not. It’s not an indictment of Shelden Williams, who I suspect will earn a paycheck in this league for the next ten years ago. It’s about the outrageously poor decision Billy Knight made to waste, utterly throw away any future asset-related value off, the fifth overall pick. Simple as that.

Going to Charleston, SC. You guys enjoy the break and the festivities on TNT (Barkley vs. Bavetta?!). You’re all ALL-STARS in my book.

By Dee

February 16, 2007 01:27 PM | Link to this

I agree w/ Brian..I like the team we have now..we are improving every year so far..and who knows, maybe BK is drafting all these “forwards” so that he can trade them later for veteran PG & BIG’s. Our forwards are not bad AT ALL..Chill, Solomon, Shelden, Anderson are not bad. BK said he doesnt want a rookie PG or BIG so if he gets players that everyone else may want or need, then that way he could trade them for a vet PG/BIG. Let’s let BK control HIS team. HACK, I may not be surprise if we do get the top 1 or 2 draft pick and get Durant instead of Oden. He might just trade CHill or Jsmoove for a top PG or BIG (Vet)..WHO KNOWS

By crs

February 16, 2007 01:31 PM | Link to this

Looking ahead, it would not shock me to see Javaris from GT leave early, I think he would be a great pick and certainly help take this hawks group to 45-48 wins next year.

By Jason

February 16, 2007 02:15 PM | Link to this

Ken:

The Knicks don’t have a 1st round pick next year. They traded it to Chicago for Curry and it’s not ANY KIND of protected, so they are going to get it regardless. The pick that we got from Indiana (correct me if I’m wrong here gang) is lottery protected, so if they don’t make the playoffs we don’t get it.

By Anakin Joe

February 16, 2007 02:33 PM | Link to this

Ando, I’m not defending the pick of Shelden at number 5. But here’s some news for you, it AIN’T GONNA CHANGE. GET OVER IT. My point, is just that. get over it. Dude is not useless. He has value when he gets minutes.

Get over the value judgement of Shelden at number 5. It ain’t gonna change. If you’re Hiro, then go back to the day that Dominique got traded. That would be a better use of your time travelling skills. If you’re Ando, then get over the #5 selection. We have a young PF who can board better than most 24 and under players in this league. PERIOD!

I recognize that as long as this team competes night in and night out, you will be forced to harp on past flaws to justify your rants. Your’s is a sad existence as a Hawks fan when you can’t even enjoy the fact that this team is 18-18 in games not played in December, when everyone and their grandmother was injured. Enjoy your All-Star break in Charleston.

crs, Jarvaris’ recent play certainly has been outstanding. I doubt he will come out if Tech misses the tournament. With all of the incredible freshmen in the ACC, too bad we won’t likely see these guys battle each other for at least 2 more seasons. Imagine if guys like Vince Carter, Elton Brand, Tim Duncan, Kenny Anderson and Chris Paul all left school after one year of college ball.

By mykhalc

February 16, 2007 02:50 PM | Link to this

in response to both RAY’s late nite post and ANDO’s mornin’ post…i think RAY hit it on the head…”MARVIN, GRAB SOME FREAKIN’ GLASS!”

i think by MARVIN improvin’ in just this one area helps this team IMMENSELY!! there is NO REASON (in my mind at least) why given 43 mins he should walk off the floor with ONE BOARD!! UNACCEPTABLE!!!

as i stated before, this team has NO LUXURIES except for cap space. and we cannot afford to give someone that kinda PT to get that kinda result!! so he’s gotta get better on the glass!!

and as much as i’m diggin’ the CORE 4’s chemistry, i think MARVIN will only put himself on the bubble if those numbers do not improve. i don’t think any of us expect that he can be on offensively on a consistent basis at this early point of his career. but JS and the combo of ZAZA/LW need help on the glass. and MARVIN is the obvious choice to HAVE TO step up his game in that dept or risk surrenderin’ some of his mins back to SHELDEN or whomever wants to do the work!!!

By jhan

February 16, 2007 03:09 PM | Link to this

The Indy pick is top 10 protected this year, I believe.

By Brian L.

February 16, 2007 03:37 PM | Link to this

Ando…I see your point, I really do. BUT If we had used our recent picks on the 1 and 5 positions everyone would be saying that we dont have any forwards now. J Smith would be lighting it up in some better b-ball town and we’d all be wishing we’d drafted him. Try to see things in a positive note. our 2 through 4 positions are now SOLID for MANY years to come. So now the next legit free agent or great draft pick that comes along at 1 or 5 we can snatch up quickly.

With 2 through 4 solid now, if BK doesn’t focus on 1 and 5 in the next year I will join the bashers, but until then I think he’s building a good group.

By Brian L.

February 16, 2007 03:38 PM | Link to this

mykahlc…..good post, I like MW but I had no idea he only caught one board. what is his season avg?

By Anakin Joe

February 16, 2007 03:40 PM | Link to this

Just read the very embarassing story about how the owners secured a first class commercial airline ticket for their one and only All-Star to get to Las Vegas. Is there any doubt that most owners would have chartered a private plane for Joe (and even arranged for him to have some friends and family accompany him to his first All Star game). What a lousy way to treat your star player.

By Brian L.

February 16, 2007 03:52 PM | Link to this

Marvin’s averaging 4.8 rpg. Not good, but Jsmoove is the only one doing very well. The whole team needs to improve, but I think they are. I think this year’s model is much improved over last years, and the record is obviously going to show that. Lets look at facts, the win/loss record is the proof of how we’re progressing.

Does anyone know what veteran pg’s will be available in free agency next year?

By Brian L.

February 16, 2007 04:01 PM | Link to this

Joe….I agree!!! that is ridiculous Atlanta Spirit. Shame on you. Joe is the best thing that’s happened here since Nique left. WE ARE TRYING TO SUPPORT YOUR TEAM….STEP UP TO THE PLATE!!!

By mavid

February 16, 2007 04:27 PM | Link to this

actually, 4.8 rpg for your starting small foward isnt that bad

but yeah, marvin does need to step his game up and get some more boards

By Brian L.

February 16, 2007 05:01 PM | Link to this

marvin seems to be getting a little more aggressive, which is good.

Josh Smith brings the energy to the game that this team needs. He is playing huge lately. his presence inside is bigger than any other person I’ve seen at his height.

Good Luck in Vegas JJ!!! Make us proud. I think thats one thing that everybody on this blog can agree on.

By Ken Strickland

February 16, 2007 05:12 PM | Link to this

JASON & JHAN, thanks for responding to my post. I took some time and searched for info on the two issues you guys mentioned. First, Chicago got NY’s 2006 1st RD pick, plus they get their 2007 & 2009 2nd RD picks. The Indy pick is definitely top 10 lottery protected. So, we could still get lucky.

Like I said earlier, a trade now just doesn’t make sense. Why trade away any of our young assets now for a 2nd tier center, which is about all we would likely acquire. It’s about time for this franchise to get lucky again. I remember the last time the Hawks had a chance to make history. I don’t remember the yr, but I certainly remember the circumstances.

The Hawks had the 1st and 3rd overall picks and drafted David Thompson and Marvin Webster. We also got Julius “Dr J” Erving to agree to a contract and actually had him in training camp. DThompson refused to sign because mgt wouldn’t agree to sign his best friend Monty Towe. MWebster refused to sign because he didn’t like the way we treated Thompson. The Nuggets agreed to sign Monty Towe and ended up signing both Webster and Thompson. The ABA then threatened to sue the Hawks for signing Dr J, and mgt chickened out and voided his contract. The stupid thing is the Hawks were afraid of being sued for doing what the ABA had already been doing(remember former Hawks Jumping Joe Caldwell and Zelmo Beatty). We ended up with only Bill Willowsby, the 2nd high school player drafted that yr, to show for our efforts. Daryl Dawkins was the other high school player drafted.

MAN, THIS FRANCHISE IS OVERDUE FOR SOMETHING POSITIVE TO HAPPEN. MAYBE THIS DRAFT WILL BE IT. MAYBE WE WILL BE ABLE TO KEEP OUR PHOENIX PICK. LET ALL AS OF US HOLD OUT HOPE.

By Jameyan

February 16, 2007 05:46 PM | Link to this

Look Billy Knight can kill two birds with one stone before the trade deadline. Jamaal Maglorie and Juan Dixon is in Portland waiting to be moved. that clears up our guard and post play for the rest of the season. You can give up Batista,Medvedenko,Salim,Sheldon or whoever you want except JChill off the bench. This will instantly help us then in the off-season sign RANDOLPH MORRIS. He can’t be drafted because he already in the draft. 2007 1st round pick- Acie Law - Texas A&M 2nd round pick- Jamarreo Davidson- Alabama (Hometown kid) and then in the 08 draft if he don’t come out this year Javorris Crintenton is da man. If he comes out this year draft him.

But who am I kidding we are talking about Billy Knight and the Atlanta Spirit.

By mykhalc

February 16, 2007 05:53 PM | Link to this

come on MAVID, JJ is averagin’ 4.2rpg!! KIDD is gettin’ 8.0 rpg. nah, gotta disagree with you. IT IS BAD!!! and more than anythin’ it should NOT be acceptable to him (MW), his coaches or teammates!!! as RAY said, “MARVIN, GRAB SOME FREAKIN’ GLASS!”

By MBATL

February 16, 2007 06:15 PM | Link to this

Hawks should be real careful about trading a 20-year-old #2 pick, whose body hasn’t even matured yet, for a middling center. Rebounding can be learned (requires just coaching and effort, imo).

That’s the kind of deal the good franchises are out there salivating over. Franchises that draft 19-yr-olds at #2 and then trade them 2 years later to fill minor needs are destined to fail.

By Jason

February 16, 2007 06:54 PM | Link to this

I agree with you on holding on to our young assets. I also don’t think a trade is possible with this ownership situation so all of the speculation is for nothing.

It turns out Chicago has the right to swap their pick with the Knicks one. So if the Knicks finish with a higher pick the Bulls can trade places.

http://www.nbadraft.net/draftnotes.asp

By mavid

February 16, 2007 08:14 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, i dont really disagree with you, because i DO think marvin should be averaging around 6 rpg… BUT, all im saying is that 4.8 for a starting sf isnt all that bad compared to other starting sf’s

battier - 4.2

bowen - 2.6 (haha)

richard jefferson (when he was playing)- 4.5

kirilenko - 5.2

These are all players who are no doubt valuable to their teams.

However, when looking at the stats, all the upper-tier players were at 6 rpg or so, and that IS where marvin should be

so, we really do agree, haha

By mavid

February 16, 2007 08:19 PM | Link to this

also, how bout this little blurb on sean williams

“The best shot blocker to come along in years … Has the ability to alter any shot in the lane, making him a huge defensive presence … Length is unbelievable. His 7-5 wingspan and defensive mindset make him a menace to opposing shooters. Loves to block jump shooters on the perimeter … Gets his fair share of steals as well … Extremely high vertical leap … Quickness is outstanding defensively… Strong on the boards offensively and defensively …”

Now, dude did get kicked off BC for behavioral problems (attitude and marijuana problems specifically) BUT, his back is now against the wall, and he know he has one more chance to fix his life and do something to take care of his family. hopefully that is enough to whip him into line.

1st round (indy’s pick) - acie law (or maybe shakur, who i dont know much about)

2nd round - sean williams

sign randolph morris as a FA

By Ken Strickland

February 16, 2007 09:05 PM | Link to this

MAVID, you, and guys like you, seem to have a grasp on the talented college players. Unfortunately, I can’t come close to that type of knowledge because I don’t have a strong interest in the college game. I really envy you guys. You may, or may not, know what you are talking about, but I sure as heck wouldn’t know.

Also, Marvin’s rebounding numbers could be misleading. If he is doing a good job of screening his man off the boards, I can accept his numbers. I am going to pay attention to him the next televised game. Sometimes straight numbers can be misleading. Getting 6/7 rebounds a game may look good on the stat sheet, but not if he’s giving up 2/3 OFF rebounds.

It’s good to know I’m not the only one thinking we should hold on to our core of young guns. At least until we determine our future draft and ownership/legal status.

By Clyde

February 16, 2007 10:02 PM | Link to this

I hope Speedy, T.Lue and Royal Ivey are watching the Sophmore-Rookie game. Maybe Deron Williams and Chris Paul can show dem boys how to play the point.

Draft Acie Law and………….

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Volman

February 16, 2007 11:01 PM | Link to this

Clyde, it’s so funny how are you are trying SO HARD to find things to talk about..

Come up with something new.

COME ON CLYDE!!!!!!!

By mykhalc

February 16, 2007 11:17 PM | Link to this

KEN, you definitely are not alone about holdin’ onto the CORE 4. i hope the pieces fall into place that allow for at least another year to see how they continue gel and develop. BUT as MM and a couple others have said, if somehow MARVIN can help bring GASOL or that type of impact player then that opportunity CANNOT be ignored or passed on!!!

By mykhalc

February 16, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

MAVID,LOL!! yep, at 6 rpg, i’ll start to ease up!!!LOL

By ray

February 17, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

I think some people misunderstand. My frustration is this: Shelden was drafted to bring immediate help. This is NOT what is happening, though. As soon as Marvin is healthy, his non-rebounding a$$ is on the court and playing. Shelden only plays significant minutes when one of the inept centers or Smith or Marvin is out. Yes, he gets some rebounds when he plays enough. But he doesn’t play enough because EVIDENTLY he is not good enough to unseat another player who is more firmly in the rotation. So, we’re not getting rebounds and blocks from Marvin, yet Shelden does not play. Explain this to me. And sure, the easy answer is to blame it on Woodson (and you may be at least partially right). But the POINT is not that Shelden is useless. It’s that he apparently isn’t good enough to be as useful as we need him to be. Depth is nice, but just how many 20 and 10 games did he have? Yeah, if you’re going to use statistics, try thinking about the other 40-odd games…

By mavid

February 17, 2007 01:30 AM | Link to this

^ great post ray…

and joe, i tihnk you said it above

the way they sent JJ out to vegas was soooo unprofessional. its embarassing

By mykhalc

February 17, 2007 02:48 AM | Link to this

let’s hope the team ponied up for the $20K charter that JJ ended up havin’ to take!!???!!!

By mykhalc

February 17, 2007 02:53 AM | Link to this

s/b…mgmt ponied up

By Clyde

February 17, 2007 08:15 AM | Link to this

I’ll keep saying the same ole stuff till the problem gets fixed. Last night I saw two of the best point guards in the league create opportunities for their teammates to score. We need a point guard like that in Atlanta.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Kappy

February 17, 2007 09:56 AM | Link to this

Clyde I’m NEVER on your side usually, but I was thinking the same thing last night. Actually, I’ll make that 3 unbeleievable point guards for many years to come(Marcus Williams). Not to mention Roy and Foye. Depressing.

I’m on the fence with Shelden. All of you have made good posts. I wanted Marcus Williams at 5(he didn’t go until the 20’s, shows you what I know) but that kid is going to be a stud for years to come.

I have been the biggest Chris Paul basher on here. I never wanted to draft him the year we got Marvin, didn’t like his game at Wake, and thought a lot of the stats he got last year were inflated and not a true representation of his ability. Well, I found a great article on Chris Paul’s selfishness and how his teammates don’t like him.

From a blog I read often:

“jay— i was fortunate enough to have a seat next to a long time NBA official on a flight home @ x-mas that was delayed once we got on the runway. So I had about 3 hours to talk with him. I was asking about best players, worst teammates, best coaches, etc. (After I started the conversation with the ‘please call more fouls for Joe—he’s getting KILLED out there’). And after a while I said “alright, I gotta ask because everyone is so high on CP. what’s your take”. And he basically told me that his teammates dislike him in the pros because they feel like he dribbles around until low on the shot clock, makes a pass with a couple seconds left and tells the recipient to shoot. he said that a lot of his assists come via that route. Accordingly, he said, the teammates don’t like him a whole lot because of that. And apparently he’s a whiner. Put it this way. The ref said his least favorite player in the NBA is Baron Davis (for whining, b***, general douchebaggery, thinking he’s better than everyone). CP, he said, reminds him of B-Diddy. That sounded bad enough for me not to want him on our team. Besides the fact that he was a jerk in college—his teammates may have liked him but no one else did. Julius Hodge still probably wants to kick his a* after getting hit in the nuts in the ACC tourney. People forget that now. He was a little bit of a headcase in college”

Exactly what I knew about Chris Paul the whole time. So, everyone, just be glad we didn’t get him. I promise you. He is this generation’s Steve Francis. And I totally forgot about the tiume he punched some guy in the nuts in the ACC tourney. Shady.

By St. Bernard

February 17, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

So has anyone else noticed the rumor out of Seattle that Atlanta called about Ridnour? Was that generated from Sekou? Did the owner really look into the trade instead of BK? www.hoopshype.com

By St. Bernard

February 17, 2007 10:28 AM | Link to this

Kappy, I’m with you, I think the main point is that we find a GOOD point guard. Not a Speedy type point guard HOPING he’ll play better than he’s ever played before. Take a look at Steele from Alabama in this year’s draft. He’s a possibility.

On another thought, could Stern have a second reason for putting JJ on the Stars? Could he be trying to get Vegas ready to be the new home of Joe’s team the Vegas Hawks?

By jambazy

February 17, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this

Kappy ……..Wow. Damn strong comments from a ref. What a reputation to have “if it’s true”. MW anyday - class act pro.

By BU

February 17, 2007 10:58 AM | Link to this

St Benard: Here is the rumor abour Ridnour

**Sonics talking trade, yes, but actual deals not likely

FRANK HUGHES; The News Tribune Published: February 17th, 2007 01:00 AM

LAS VEGAS – Though it remains unlikely that the Seattle SuperSonics will pull off a deal before the Feb. 22 trade deadline, that does not mean general manager Rick Sund is not having conversations, some of which could lead to potential trades in the future. The Atlanta Hawks have called Sund, according to a source, seeking to obtain point guard Luke Ridnour.

Sund, who is in Las Vegas for the All-Star game but declined to comment on any trade discussions, told the Hawks the only way they could get Ridnour would be to include a first-round draft pick in any deal, the source said.

The Hawks currently have the seventh-worst record in the NBA (21-31) and do not want to give up a selection in a draft that is deep and talented.

It is unclear what players the Hawks offered, though they are said to be displeased with point guard Speedy Claxton, who is not the distributor that coach Mike Woodson would like.

Ridnour’s agent, Lon Babby, is close with one of the Hawks’ owners and could have tried to facilitate a trade for Ridnour, who has been in and out of the Sonics’ starting lineup this season.**

By Kappy

February 17, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

St.Bernard Vegas Hawks - No.

Ronald Steele -YES

By Ken Strickland

February 17, 2007 12:16 PM | Link to this

RAY, I understand your frustration. The main problem with Shelden, other than the PT issue you mentioned, is the OFF. At Duke, Shelden provided most of the inside scoring. He was primarily a post up player that commanded double teams which freed their outside shooters. Woody doesn’t run a post OFF, so Shelden is reduced to setting outside picks and taking jump shots. You consistently post Shelden on the block and you will see excellent footwork, moves, ball fakes, and lots of trips to the FT line. He’s an excellent FT shooter, and you’ll get your 15-20pts and 10rbs.

Cris Paul was exposed this summer world games, especially against Greece. Teams realized he wasn’t a good outside shooter, and he couldn’t/wouldn’t play DEF. He was so inept on screen and rolls, he had to be replaced because he became a liability. Those enamered with CPaul bought the sizzle and not the steak.

As far as the PG issue is concerned, there are a number of viable options available, if mgt is willing to pony up. There are very few, if any, options available for a quality BIG, that the Hawks can afford without breaking up our core of young guns. I’d rather we draft someone with potential, than trade away assets for a 2nd tier big that’s not likely to progress significantly. We need a BIG that can rebound and be DEF strong enough to reduce the inside scoring we’re currently giving up. Even with our PG situation, our OFF isn’t coming up short on points. It’s our DEF that’s coming up short on points allowed in the paint. Plug that inside hole, and our PG situation will become much less of an issue.

By Clyde

February 17, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

I’m a Alabama fan but I don’t thinK Ron Steele is ready for the NBA. We need the playmaking abilities of Acie Law.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By mykhalc

February 17, 2007 01:42 PM | Link to this

i know i’ve said it before, but JCHILLS at PG!!! the team’s offense and ball movement is toooooo smooth to be ignored when he’s at PG. and BU’s post where it said,“It is unclear what players the Hawks offered, though they are said to be displeased with point guard Speedy Claxton, who is not the distributor that coach Mike Woodson would like.” that’s EXACTLY how i feel about SPEEDY and the way he runs the offense. he just NOT a good ball distributor.

if it was me, this is what i’d do for the remainin’ of the season if i could not make any trades…

1) start JC, JJ, JS, MW, LW (LW only because that seems to be workin’ somewhat now) to see how that unit does out the gate

2) try to establish decent rotations with…LUE, RICHARDSON (sign him for the remainder of the year), SHELDEN, ZAZA, SJONES

3) SPEEDY and SALIM would see minimal mins!!!

now, i know that IS NOT gonna happen mainly ‘cause of the money bein’ paid to SPEEDY. i’m just sayin’, if it was me…..

but if moves could be made, first and foremost, i address the 5!!!