AJC > Sports > Hawks > Blog > Archives > 2007 > February > 14 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USThe Waiting Game …
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
LOS ANGELES - Welcome to my world Joe Johnson.
Most of my days are spent waiting for someone or something to either happen or finish before I can do my business. It doesn’t matter if it’s a game day or a practice day, I’m always waiting.
And now, the Hawks’ quiet captain is waiting on a couple of things. First is the official word on Jason Kidd’s status for Sunday’s All-Star game. The second thing he’s waiting on is a Valentine from NBA Commissioner David Stern, who will decide on the replacement for Kidd if one is needed.
At this point it’s hard to offer anything close to a prediction about what will happen if Kidd does opt out, as is being reported by the good folks at ESPN. I’m trying to come up with some competition for the (potential) open slot and I’m thinking it has to be a short list of JJ, Luol Deng and perhaps Ben Gordon (he’s my longshot). But I’m having a difficult time figuring out how JJ could be left off of the All-Star list twice.
After all, the Hawks have actually moved up the NBA food chain, ever so slightly, since the All-Star reserves were announced a couple of weeks ago. Still, I’m never convinced that anything close to appropriate will come from a league that, time after time, has made a point of by spitting in the face of what seems obvious to the rest of us (dress code, new ball, old ball, etc.).
JJ’s been a stand up dude through all of this, so I know he’s not making plans for Vegas prematurely. Still, I know he’s hoping it happens, as are his coaches and teammates. It would also be a nice reward for a guy who’s performed at an extremely high level the past year and a half without a whole lot of national recognition for what he’s done.
So now we play the waiting game.
Update: Johnson was added to the All-Star roster Wednesdsay after Kidd was ruled out.
On to a few 5 a.m. thoughts from the rooftop in LA:
Seeing two trades crawl across the bottom of the screen (Eric Williams goes to Charlotte while Spurs get Melvin Ely and Jake Tsakalidis moves to Houston while and Scott Padgett takes his locker stall in Memphis) left me scratching my head. Is this it? Where are the blockbuster trade deadline deals that have been swirling about for weeks now? I’m still holding out hope that the Hawks will get knee deep into a deal of some kind, but all is quiet on the rumor front right now. The next juicy one I hear about will make it’s way to ajc.com, in story form or here. But like most of you, I’m in need of some trade action in the worst way.
Unlike the rest of the city, I am not claiming to be the father of Anna Nicole Smith’s baby. Good gracious. I haven’t seen more useless wall-to-wall media coverage like this since the OJ trial. I’ve tried to refrain from cracking on any of this out of respect for a woman whose life ended suspiciously short of her 40th birthday. But the uproar that’s dominating the headlines and the news channels only shows why so many people have turned away from places that provide “real” news and information. Anna Nicole’s baby daddy has garnered more headlines than anything the past week. And it’s sad, just sad.
Speaking of non-stories, and I’ve stayed away from this one as well. But who in the world cares about John Amaechi? ESPN’s constant pumping of this story is down right shameless (you’ve probably already guessed who published his book). There’s this notion that the jock culture wouldn’t accept an openly gay man in the locker room. I’d argue that by not concerning themselves with it at all, they already have. Do you really think myopic multi-millionaires actually care about someone else’s sexual preferences? It’s hilarious that anyone would think that Amaechi’s story is some revelation. Complete and utter nonsense.
I’m dreading the All-Star Game festivities in Las Vegas, by the way. I know, I know. This is going to be the part of the millennium and all that good stuff. But this weekend is not about the game of basketball or anything remotely close to it. This is about glitz, glamour and the NBA’s undeniable passion to market a once-proud game into oblivion. They might as well turn the game into a celebrity contest and allow the players to rest up and recharge their batteries in anticipation of a furious playoff rally over the next two and a half months. (Good grief, am I really complaining about this? … Yup!)
On a positive note, I will get a chance to see one of my favorite young players in the league tonight. Clippers point guard Shaun Livingston remains one of the most intriguing young players in the league, to me. My pops and I saw him twice while he was in high school at the MKOX Shootout in St. Louis and couldn’t believe how much raw talent he had, particularly as a passer. So to see his game stifled by the Clippers (which should surprise no one, seeing as how they’ve made a point of wasting loads of lottery talent over the years) is particularly painful. If he’s allowed to push the pace tonight, the game could be one of the Hawks’ most entertaining contests of the year. If not, the 10:30 p.m. tip time back in Atlanta will be more than appropriate.
Comments
By dap
February 14, 2007 09:49 AM | Link to this
Would Livingston ever be available? What would it take to get him.
By michael m.
February 14, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
why did the l.a. game have to be on valentine’s day? i remember looking at the schedule when it came out and cursing the fact. my girl doesn’t find the idea of spending this particular evening together at a basketball game exciting. go figure. but i mean, what isn’t romantic about watching jsmoove jamming home alley-oops? she wasn’t buying and thus i will not be at the game this evening. have to go with tivo, baby. by the way sekou, beautiful morning out, isn’t it? a bit cold, but then it’s only 7 am.
on his off day joe johnson took in the lakers-knicks game last night. what a professional.
By Volman
February 14, 2007 10:33 AM | Link to this
no way the Livingston is available. He’s too vital to the future of the Clippers’ franchise.. He’s learning from cAssell.
I definitely would want him though… I don’t mind having Childress run the point right now, though.
By Mr Myogi
February 14, 2007 10:39 AM | Link to this
Why are we not throwing Draft picks out there to try and land another big time player?
The team is young enough to the point where those picks will be useless for a couple of years anyway.(Knowing BK he will select another wingman any way)
Picture this:
2007 1st Rd (Indiana), Sheldon Williams, Est…. Batista, Lorenzen Wright to Minnesota for KG.
SPEEDY/TLUE
JOE/Stoudemire
JOSH/JCHILL
MARVIN/ZaZa
KG/Sol. Jones
Just a thought. I’m a big fan of THE BIG TICKET and has been since his entrance into the league. I always wondered what it would be like for him to be on my Favorite/Hometown Hawks!
By Darth Andro
February 14, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! ELY GOES TO THE SPURS FOR ERIC WILLIAMS? WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS FRANCHISE? WE’VE HAD ELY ON OUR RADAR FOR 2 YEARS HERE! I CAN’T STAND THIS MUCH LONGER. SPIRIT, PLEASE JUST SETTLE OUT AND LET BELKIN COME IN AND FIRE KNIGHT. THE WHOLE LOT OF YOU ARE KILLING THE SPIRIT OF INTELLIGENT FANS IN ATLANTA. IT’S UNFAIR TO CONTINUE TO HURT US LIKE THIS.
(I believe that’s my first-ever all-caps paragraph, in over a year and a half here. It wasn’t as satisfying as I had hoped.)
A mid-1st rounder and 3 complete stiffs for the Big Ticket. Yeah, Glen Taylor became a billionaire making deals like that…….
Contracts have to match within 25% of players trading places. Based on my understanding of the current contracts we have in place, we’d either have to trade everyone on our team, but Joe, or something like Joe, Speedy, Marvin and our 1st, to get up over the $20 million a year that KG makes. Ain’t happening.
But a dude can dream.
By honest_abe
February 14, 2007 11:07 AM | Link to this
no livingston is/will not be available.
yup nobody cares about john amaechi but espn. but it does highlight the fact that society and the nba is not ready to have a current player be gay. i think most everyone including myself dont’ associate athletes as being gay. it might be a narrow minded view. but it’s reality.
hope you guys stay out of the doghouse!
By Anakin Joe
February 14, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this
Darth Andro, keep in mind the other end of the deal, that is that the world’s cheapest owner, Bob Johnson, received yet another expiring contract in Eric Williams. And just because bloggers have a player “on our radar” do you really think that means that BK should also have that player on his “radar”? Bobcats are as bad as we are and Ely couldn’t get any love on that team. I like his potential also, but on a team wrecked by injuries to big men, why couldn’t he crack their rotation? Bottom line, we didn’t have an expiring contract to give to Scrooge and if Ely doesn’t offer much more value over the next few months (as he becomes an unretricted free agent) as Solomon, Shelden or Slava, then what’s the point?
With that said, I think what this shows is that Jackie Butler has no role on the Spurs moving forward and I’d much rather make a trade for Butler (younger, more physical) than Ely.
By vdunkndunk
February 14, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this
I’m afraid Ben Gordon will make the all-star team over JJ, even though JJ is clearly a far better player: better scorer, better defender, better playmaker, more versatile, bigger, stronger…
But Gordon plays in Chicago for a winning team. So I think he’ll get the nod. Now, if JJ played in Chicago they would be legit title contenders and JJ would already be on the all-star team, but I don’t think that will matter. Nor will it matter that the Hawks would have about 10 wins if you traded JJ for Gordon straight up. Whatever.
By Samuel
February 14, 2007 12:13 PM | Link to this
Cuz,
I wouldn’t have a problem with JJ as a replacement but come on. That short list is garbage.
I know MY BOY Eddie Curry gets no love on this board but he’s played as well as anybody in the league the last couple of months. 65% FG, 68% FT 23pts 7boards in Jan and Feb. Sure we can discect his game all day and say only 7 boards but his role is scoring and he does that as well as anybody.
Matter of fact he’s unstoppable.
By the way,JJ isn’t exactly tearing the league apart with his assists either. Also, his(Curry’s) team has made the biggest turn around of any in the league due mostly to that offense going thru him(Curry) every play.
Like I said, I wouldn’t have a problem with JJ making the squad, but come On. Give the man(curry) his props.
By Darth Andro
February 14, 2007 12:23 PM | Link to this
Come on, Joe, you know you got a chuckle out of yesterday’s post. I just can’t got no love from you. None at all.
Based on my own track record of player evaluations, versus Billy’s, I DO THINK he should have folks we talk about here, on his radar. He could do much worse (in fact, he has, repeatedly). If he’d come here and listened to me (and not you) he wouldn’t have taken Shelden Williams. Butler, Ely, man I don’t care. Just give me a legitimate center prospect who’s tall enough to not stoop his way onto my 6’4 and under team (OK, I’m 6’5, but people always stoop to get in on league-mandated height maximums. And I don’t have any such team. I’m just sayin’). You must have more hair than any man alive, because I’ve never seen anybody split as many as you.
This is from Bill Simmons’ blog, regarding Noah and our soon-to-be Phoenix pick:
“One silver lining: Because he’s playing on a deep team and everyone keeps picking his game apart, he’s definitely dropping out of the top three and possibly the top four. Well, Phoenix owns Atlanta’s pick as long as it’s not in the top three; I guarantee they’re salivating over the chance that (A) that pick will be in the 4-to-6 range, and (B) Noah could fall to them. Can you imagine a better fit for Phoenix’s frontcourt than Joakim Noah? Let’s say they drafted him, and let’s say they moved the other two first-rounders and maybe even Boris Diaw for a shooter (someone like Rashard Lewis or Mike Miller). Imagine a front seven of Nash, Stoudemire, Marion, Lewis/Miller, Bell, Noah and Barbosa? That’s a 70-win team if everyone stays healthy.
(By the way, if anyone in Phoenix’s front office is reading this right now, they’re probably screaming, “Shut up! Shut the hell up! Dammit! He’s ruining everything!”)”.
Yeah, Bill, and here in Atlanta, we can’t get enough chuckles out of the idea that Phoenix will end up with the fourth pick and take Noah. Some of my “friends” here seem to think it’s worth the extra 3 inconsequential wins, to give that pick up. Me, I don’t know about all that…………
By honest_abe
February 14, 2007 01:26 PM | Link to this
ya when you’re 6’11 and 300+ lbs with good athleticsm.. and only pulling down 7 boards it says quite a bit about his heart. if you want a no defense playing big man who gets you very little rebounds CURRY IS YOUR MAN!
By Anakin Joe
February 14, 2007 01:47 PM | Link to this
Andro, yeah, I’d hire you in a heart beat. It would be fun to fire you when you try to trade Childress, Shelden and Salim for Dwayne Jones.
I appreciate Phoenix’s style of play, but I still don’t see them beating Dallas in 7 games. Everyone is into the hype, but that team may very well be the modern version of what we saw last decade with the Mavericks and/or Kings. High-powered offense that can’t make it to the Finals.
My hope has always been that we end up giving Phoenix a pick around #8-10. And that is still quite possible as we are currently sitting with the 7th worse record.
By j2tuf
February 14, 2007 01:54 PM | Link to this
Finally, Joe begins to get the credit he deserves. Congratulations!! Personally, I believe you have earned an All Star spot. Way to elevate your game!!
By Anakin Joe
February 14, 2007 02:02 PM | Link to this
CONGRATULATIONS TO JOE JOHNSON
Have fun out in Vegas. But try to get a little rest in between the parties, media events and parties.
And please, stay away from anyone who plays for the Indiana Pacers. Those guys are magnets for trouble.
By Ryder
February 14, 2007 02:33 PM | Link to this
Congratulations JJ, making the All-Star team was well deserved! I’m glad the world will get to see how talented this young man is. Hopefully this will be the beginning of of the Hawks’ rise to respectability!
By doc
February 14, 2007 02:36 PM | Link to this
congrats to our all star jj, the warrior.
aj to save face i’d love to see this team jockey up about three more places and see the pacers fall to about 13 to 15 which they might if they dont put a curfew on some of those guys. hate to say it but they might have helped themselves more by doing the trade than hurt.
can you imagine where the hawks might be if they had spent some more cash and brought in dunleavy and murphy, when it was out there to take? phoenix wouldnt have been salivating at this point looking to take a lottery pick for sure. with the long delay that we saw i cant say it wasnt more about spirit than the gm.
By mykhalc
February 14, 2007 02:44 PM | Link to this
BIG CONGRATS JJ!!! A PRO’S PRO, NO DOUBT!!
ANDO and ANDRO, so what will JJ’s all-star honors cost us in draft picks???? gotta be somethin’!!! does somehow PHO now get him back??? or is this just another inept move on BK’s part?? oh i know, JJ should TANK his appear in VEGAS!!!LOL
By mykhalc
February 14, 2007 02:48 PM | Link to this
s/b…appearance (but i know you cats knew that)
By honest_abe
February 14, 2007 02:50 PM | Link to this
jj congrats on making the team even if it’s through these circumstances. it’s your time to shine. show everyone what we see every night. straight baller!!!!!!
my feable attempt to be hip..HA!
By doc
February 14, 2007 02:55 PM | Link to this
aj, check out the bounce in beyonce on si.com.
we might not hear from you for days dude, you will claim it was the all star break i presume.
By vdunkndunk
February 14, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this
Congrats to Joe Johnson! I’m in shock…I can’t believe they made the right choice on this one. JJ definitely deserves to be there.
By RotoRob
February 14, 2007 03:36 PM | Link to this
Despite his recent shooting woes, Johnson’s selection is very deserved. I love the way he’s playing since J-Smooth returned.
In my column today, I discussed the Hawks’ season to date, with a focus on their playing time situation.
[http://www.rotorob.com/basketball/position-battles-atlanta-seeks-pg-rating/]
Cheers.
R ‘n B [www.RotoRob.com] Daily fantasy sports analysis with an edge
By Volman
February 14, 2007 03:45 PM | Link to this
Great job, Joe. Congrats.
I really think our guys are going to come out with some fire tonight and really show the progression we’ve made over the season.
Go get them tonight, guys.
By Darth Andro
February 14, 2007 03:49 PM | Link to this
Yeah, Joe, I’m gonna trade Childress, Shelden and Salim for Jones. Jeesh, I sure hope your love child got Anna’s brains instead of yours……….Maybe the Spirit aren’t so bad, after all.
By Jrock
February 14, 2007 03:57 PM | Link to this
Congrats JJ. Your hard work is paying off! Go Hawks!!!
By honest_abe
February 14, 2007 03:59 PM | Link to this
i can write up a better more accurate analysis of the hawks than rotomoron.. heh
By Great Job Joe!
February 14, 2007 04:05 PM | Link to this
Joe making the All-Star game makes this season somewhat worthwhile. Imagine how Joe would perform on a good team.
By Anakin Joe
February 14, 2007 04:23 PM | Link to this
Doc, is there any doubt this will be the number 1 selling swimsuit issue in SI history? I’ll check it out after having V-Day dinner with my own personal goddess who has put up with me for over a decade.
A quick personal V-Day story. A few years ago, my wife and I celebrated Heart Day at the “Lobster Bar” with our 8 month-old baby in tow. I have NEVER seen a wait staff move so fast in my life. Fortunately, the little prince didn’t make a whimper while we were feasting. I think the sip of the apple martini helped out. Oops, anyone from DFACs reading this? I meant apple juice.
Ya’ll take care of your ladies tonight.. and then watch the Hawks on TV and Beyonce in the SI issue. But first things, first.
By doc
February 14, 2007 04:36 PM | Link to this
aj, you wont be able to breathe so i’d wait for sure until after the real goddess gets her shots. enjoy … both, dude.
i’m going to skip this game, better things to attend to. i’ll get the recap from ando as he might just blow it and watch the whole game.
whoever blogs during this one has got something else to consider than tourette’s.
By A Thinking Fan
February 14, 2007 04:45 PM | Link to this
JJ is the man!
By Wedgie Evans
February 14, 2007 05:30 PM | Link to this
Congratulations to Joe Johnson, who should have made it over Vince Carter to begin with.
If the Spurs can get Melvin Ely (a serviceable rebounder/shotblocker, who could really help this team) for just an expiring contract and a 2nd round pick, what would it have taken from the Hawks to pick him up? Slava Medvedenko? Wake up, Billy!
By Rod Serling
February 14, 2007 06:34 PM | Link to this
You’re an openly gay man Sekou and they don’t give you any grief do they? It’s a non-story.
By GuyFromUruguay
February 14, 2007 08:51 PM | Link to this
Congrats to Joe Johnson!!!
By Clyde
February 14, 2007 10:26 PM | Link to this
Its about time Atlanta had something to be proud about. Congratulations JJ. If we would have drafted Chris Paul you would have been an all-star last year.
FIRE BILLY AND WOODY
By Mark
February 15, 2007 01:04 AM | Link to this
I guess Tim Hardaway ruined that “being gay is no big deal” theory, huh?
By tb
February 15, 2007 01:21 AM | Link to this
3-1 out west. When was that last possible. Coming back from 15 down in the fourth!
Very nice to see these Hawks coming out of their re-building in such fine fashion.
By reese
February 15, 2007 01:34 AM | Link to this
First of all, great win hawks. Congrats to Joe Johnson who is now a true and deserving all star.
As far as the game goes, we had 3 players (smith, childress, claxton) who had entries in every positive offensive and defensive category.
Way to go J smith and zaza with getting double doubles in points and rebounds.
Way to go JJ with hitting the free throws down the stretch. Woodson incorporates 11 players in the game and for some reason solomon sits again. Not sure whats going on there, but at least woodson is getting more people involved. I guess he is taking baby steps with incorporating more players and will soon decrease the minutes of jj. I can even live with wright playing less than 20 minutes.
By mykhalc
February 15, 2007 02:39 AM | Link to this
well, i’m back to watchin’ the boxscores but i did notice that WOODSON had the CORE 4 on the floor to finish the game!!! and they got the 30+ minutes needed for this team to have a chance!! thank you WOODSON!! now, take the baby step to let this unit start the game!!!!!! i’ll settle for that since you can’t seem to let SJONES on the court!!
3-1 western road trip. who would have dared imagine???? or as some would call it a *3-1 road trip!!!
GOOD WIN YOUNG GUNS!!!!
By gaboystock
February 15, 2007 07:13 AM | Link to this
Wassup dudes? You talking about this gay player, and nobody says nada about Beyonce on the cover of Sports Illustrated. HELLO! I say HELLO!
YOWZA!
By Kappy
February 15, 2007 09:08 AM | Link to this
Anyone else seeing this Hawks team turning the corner? Our win percentage hasnt begun with a number other than 2 or 3 this late in the season in 6 years. We’re at .404. right now. I really like the way this team is gelling. Speedy’s contributing. Lo’s giving us minutes. And the core 4 are playing outstanding. Keep it up!
By roan st
February 15, 2007 09:20 AM | Link to this
The core is 3 in my opinion. Marvin is a wasted draft pick and jeremy richardson could contribute as much as he does to this team. On nights when he doesn’t score some significant points he is absolutely worthless because he doesn’t do anything else. Thats what I love about the two joshes, if their scoring is off they can fill it up in every other catagorie. Marvin needs to pick up his rebounding and defense. His development is behind schedule in relation to how the two joshes were playing in their second years. Hell josh smith was awesome in the second half last year. Lets see if marvin can take his game up after the allstar break. If not I think the writing will be on the wall. BUST.
By Dee
February 15, 2007 09:32 AM | Link to this
For Joe Johnson to get passed up by the fans (of course), but by the coaches as welll?? the Hawks GOD saw fit to get Joe Johnson the position he deserve on the ALL-STAR team. WOW, wouldnt it be amazing if Joe be MVP..well that might be pushing it, but he could be the one who hits the game winning shot since the east has always had trouble beating the west. I’m just glad I now have a reason to watch the ALL-STAR game!! GO JOE!!!!!
By Dee
February 15, 2007 09:32 AM | Link to this
For Joe Johnson to get passed up by the fans (of course), but by the coaches as welll?? the Hawks GOD saw fit to get Joe Johnson the position he deserve on the ALL-STAR team. WOW, wouldnt it be amazing if Joe be MVP..well that might be pushing it, but he could be the one who hits the game winning shot since the east has always had trouble beating the west. I’m just glad I now have a reason to watch the ALL-STAR game!! GO JOE!!!!!
By doc
February 15, 2007 09:42 AM | Link to this
well the week really hurt the haters, but still some are wont to come through. shame that dominique talked us into marvin instead of who bk really wanted, d. williams, who brings an attitude, to heck with paul.
quite a road trip, they are playing about .500 against the west. now if they can do it against the east and at home. it may emphasize the importance of more bigs than points in the style of the game played in the east. zaza picked up his game and numbers a bit out there, will it continue after the break?
samuel were you saying it with tongue in cheek about curry and the knicks great turnaround this year as they sit only 1.5 games above the home team? must be a tough year in the fantasy league and with the youngins as you might be a bit delerious there.
By Kappy
February 15, 2007 09:45 AM | Link to this
roan Chill out on Marvin. This goes for everyone. The guy is 19. You’re crazy if you think Josh Smith was more advanced when he was 19. Marvin will learn what he needs to be succesful, I have no doubt in my mind. Do I think he’s the second coming of KG? No. Do I think he could become an explosive SF, who can hit open jumpers and extend the defense? Yes. And that’s all this team will need. They dont need a 1 or 2 scoring option. They need a complimentary scorer who can stretch defenses, and for the most part, Marvin does a pretty good job of it considering this is his first starting assignment on a team since his senior year in high school! Everyone chill out on the guy.
By Anakin Joe
February 15, 2007 09:47 AM | Link to this
If you take a step back, the team is maturing fairly nicely. We needed a consistent #2 scoring option next to JJ and Smith has emerged in that role over the last 15-20 games. We needed better interior production. When you look at what Wright and Zaza have been doing lately, it is clearly an improvement. Last night, as an example, they combined for 19 points and 19 boards. Obviously, we can still use more production but it is clearly getting better. PG? Still a concern. But Speeedy is slowly getting better. Of course, there is no reason to think we can expect any semblance of health from him. But I thought he had a solid road trip (excluding the free throws in the Warriors game). Childress is obviously an elite 6th man in the league. Marvin has had some very good stretches during some games. But with JJ and Smith scoring close to 50 points every night, Marvin will not likey be needed to score more than 14-15 points most games. Trade bait? I’d wait until the summer and hope that his value will increase over the last 30 games of the season.
Sometimes, we get too focused on the individual piece parts when it is the team dynamic that is most critical. And it seems like the team is rounding into form nicely. Great point about seeing the Hawks winning percentage starting with a 4. I wonder when the last time we saw that at the All-Star break.
Hey Blog Z, how about summarizing all of the milestones this team has reached? First 3-1 western swing since X. January was first winnning month (excluding a shortened April, 2004), since Y. First 5 game road winning streak since Z, etc. Seems like they are definitely on the road to respectability.
By jlewis
February 15, 2007 09:47 AM | Link to this
Has anyone noticed the positive things that happen when Speedy Claxton is not on the floor? The guy can’t shoot, shoot free throws and is always posted up. Also, is he hating on Joe, he seems to never pass the guy the ball.
By Kappy
February 15, 2007 10:00 AM | Link to this
jlewis I’m not defending Speedy per se, but you have to recognize his ability to penetrate the lane and find open people. It seems like he’s getting more and more aggressive each game that passes. And his off the ball, stingy defense? Pretty good. Reminds me of Mookie. Active hands. Its good for a steal or two a game which in the NBA can mean the difference between a win or a loss.
By Darth "Grinch" Andro
February 15, 2007 12:06 PM | Link to this
This is a nice stretch of ball. I honestly (I know, no surprise) don’t think folks should get too excited about the implications of this little streak. It IS nice for confidence and “learning” how to win (which folks like Joe and doc have placed a lot of value in, whereas I think it’s value is muted by the real possibility that a regime change means a coaching and front office overhaul, and very little carry over).
Hoooowwwwwever, you can sum these 3 wins up in 3 words: Nash, Davis and Brand. How impressive is our win over Phoenix, when you notice that Seattle beat them by 24 last night (with no Nash and no Diaw, who so many hear have said is inconsequential)? One point over GS, with no Davis and no J. Rich? Their starting PG was a guy Billy foolishly passed on to draft Salim, in Monta Ellis, and he’s on a bum knee as well. Two points over a Brand-less Clips team? If our toothless interior defense gives up 20-13 and 6 to Kaman, who came into the game with season-long struggles of 10-8 and 1.5, IMAGINE what Brand would have done to us.
In addition, Charlotte beat the Bulls by 15 last night. Have they turned the corner? Are they now a .500 ball club? Does that mean their fans should be thinking run to the 8th seed, like folks here are thinking about these Hawks? I’m just sayin’.
Look, there is clear improvement, as last year we wouldn’t have won these games, regardless of the injuries to key players on the opposition. But folks here gave early Hawks’ losses a pass because of our injuries, so it’s only balanced to minimize some of the greater meaning of these recent wins, when the other teams were missing stars (so the only apples to apples comparison would be the impact on the Hawks when Joe was out for a few games, not Marvin or Josh).
I know, I know, don’t be a killjoy. Appreciate the improvement. I am (I cashed out last night before the game ended, but I was watching). Kind of.
I just can’t see how this team can get much better, other than Joe’s “organic” improvement, with no viable moves on the immediate, or even distant, horizon, to address the holes in talent we have at the 5 and the 1.
This is the team I thought we’d have when I predicted 34 wins. So I’m not seeing anything too shocking. Still not a playoff team. Still no way to become one without ownership resolution, a GM change, and/or some serious luck with the ping pong balls this summer.
But, on a daily basis, they don’t just suck anymore. I may be just holding too high of expectations. I may just be unrealistic, given the clear impediments to any near-term changes, that would develop viable potential for this team to be legitimate. If that’s the case, I guess I do myself a disservice by not being able to just appreciate the gradual improvements being shown by the players we DO have, instead of thinking about what might have already been if Billy Knight wasn’t such a numbnuts.
And, if nothing else, the little universe that is this blog requires balance. If I’m not here to rain on folks’ parades, then this becomes a site for rampant homerism. It’s La-La Land. Folks saying “I told you so”, and “where are the haters now?”, when we’re 10 games under .500, still seem to need a reality check.
Consider yourselves checked.
Oh yeah, great win……
By jlewis
February 15, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this
True Kappy, he has some positives, but his negatives outweigh those. The items I mentioned is why he is a career back up. When Speedy was in the game the Hawks were down 15, when he left and didn’t return, they won. His penetration and kick outs are not good, because the Hawks other than Joe, have no one with a consistent jump shot. Sorry, for the money he got, I at least expect him to get shots for the best player, not ZaZa, how happens to be the only 6’11 guy I have seen that can’t touch the rim. Moreover, he has the basketball IQ of a 3rd grader in private school league.
By Volman
February 15, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this
Darth Andro, didn’t the Bulls just play on a back to back after being on a 7 game road trip? Sounds like tired legs, playing away, and Charlotte playing over their heads to me. It should be, “the Bobcats ONLY won by 15?” These guys ARE professionals. Teams can win on any given night.
I don’t know how you can say that everyone on this blog is just jumping for joy for the team. There are constant critics on here, saying what needs to be changed/fixed. We all here know that this team is NOWHERE where it needs to be, but they are getting to respectability.
What I see over the past two years is the youngest team in the league playing with the “big boys” and IMPROVING, every year. These guys are IMPROVING. More wins.. learning how to win on the road.. All without a legit point guard and center.
Give the guys some credit. We respect your opinion, but come on man.
By pablo bosque
February 15, 2007 01:00 PM | Link to this
Lookin’ forward to watching JJ in the all-star game and the Bulls on local TV! Joe should’ve gone over either Carter, Rip, or Chauncey Billups, but the league loves a winning team, especially a perennial contender like Detroit. At least the word “lowly” has been dropped from the beginning of all AP comments about the Hawks (this must have been some official NBA rule) and replaced with “improving” or “surging” or some such other ridiculous adjective to describe the inevitable improvement of a healthy, young team that Hawks fans know can be a (late-round?) playoff team as early as next year.
are the regulations still in place saying the hawks can’t assume any contracts longer than a year? and, if so, any chance of trading for an extra draft pick, since we’re probably going to lose ours to phoenix and pick up a mid-1st from indy? not that i’d want to trade anyone who gets PT or that our bench-warmers have much value as trade bait, but the draft is so deep this year…
By Anakin Joe
February 15, 2007 01:02 PM | Link to this
Ando, you don’t seem to appreciate the term “incremental improvement”. Sure, there are some examples of teams that went from last to first in a blink of an eye. But most teams are more like the current Bulls. Slow improvement into a legit contender. Before we can make the playoffs (let’s call that high school) we need to matriculate through elementary and middle school. And that’s what I see us doing now (and hopefully next season).
And to your earlier point, Ando, if the Spirit really want to “screw over” Belkin assuming that he wins, then the best thing to do is to win now. Why leave him with a top 3 pick? Why allow him to look like a hero fixing a team that wins only 35% of their games? If they want to make his takeover more challenging, compete hard every night over the last 40 games and maybe play close to .500 ball over that stretch (with a bottom 3 payroll club).
As they say, the best revenge is to live a successful life. In this case, the best way to make the takeover a more challenging PR battle is to do what they have been doing since around 1/1. Win!
By Kappy
February 15, 2007 01:15 PM | Link to this
And one more thing. The Phoenix pick…its gone. Stop talking about it. We wont see it. We will, however, have a pick just after that thanks to BK unloading Al. It’ll probably be 5-10 picks lower, but the way were winning and Indiana is not, that pick might actually be closer to each other than we think.
So lets stop talking about the top 3 pick. Knowing our luck and our stature around the NBA(which is none), I’m sure Stern would have made sure we were no where near Oden/Durant. We certainly wouldnt have received the first pick.
By Tyger
February 15, 2007 01:16 PM | Link to this
Baby Steps
The 3-1 road trip was huge in the development of the Hawks. Kudos to everyone in the organization from BK to Estaban.
Now, we cant get giddy, this is an limited opportunity to accelerate the rebuild process, even if we are organizationally hamstrung, even baby steps are progress.
I think fixing the backcourt is much easier than finding that dominant BIG but I think we can do it by committee.
McGloire, PJ Brown or Nazr Muhammad would be an immediate upgrade and come relatively cheap. But that would require giving something significant up and, other than Speedy, I generally like our team.
However, there are some “useful” players out there that I believe can be had: Shannon Brown, Ronald Murray, Jarvis Hayes, Mike James, Juan Dixon, etc.
However, I suggest Salim/Estaban for Telfair/Olowokandi.
Boston has given up on Telfair, a true point; we have given up on Salim. Its a fair deal. Estaban and Olowokandi make the deal work but at the same time could benefit both teams.
Kandi is BIG and plays defense, but Boston has gone in another direction. We need vet BIGS and they wont come any cheaper, our #1 criteria.
Telfair would do better in ATL with scorers and athletes around him. Kandi would give us a BIG defensive presence even if for limited minutes.
Boston could try and develop both Salim and Batista or let them go. Theyve chosen Delonte, Rondo and Allan Ray over Telfair; Perkins, Jefferson, Powe over Kandi so they could use the roster spots and cap room as well.
By tb
February 15, 2007 01:22 PM | Link to this
Since it is getting more and more difficult to rag on the Hawks, and therefore the man that put them together, the only thing that Mr. Euphemism can whine about now is the ownership situation.
I’m sure he’ll always find something. Some people just get an idea and no matter what, won’t budge an inch.
Personlly I have been enjoying wathching these guys grow. Can’t wait for what’s to come.
By honest_abe
February 15, 2007 01:23 PM | Link to this
ando: i’m finally starting to see that it’s more important for you to be “right” than for “your” team to succeed.
as a fan. i have to admit i’m delusional at times. but honestly. i just like it when my team wins. period. yes you can put an asterisk on the wins if you’d like, it’s true each team didnt’ have their best player playing. but the hawks blew out golden state with baron just a few weeks ago. correct me if i’m wrong but the hawks beat the clippers with brand just a few months ago. bottom line, in your quest to be so damn “right” all the time.. you’re missing out on the joy of watching this team get mature, grow and improve… yes this team obviously has flaws. but due to certain circumstances (ownership) they can’t be easily rectified. so instead of just always trying to prove to us how “right” you are all the time. how about just enjoying this team for what they are. and that’s a rapidly improving team that just so happens to have an incompetent coach and is the youngest roster in the nba. does the future look bright? for most hawks fans yes. not for ando though. it seems to me you get more joy out of being correct than watching this current team win…
obviously we’re not there yet. but we sure are getting pretty damn close to being a viable nba team! yeeeeeeeah!
By Darth "Grinch" Andro
February 15, 2007 01:28 PM | Link to this
Vol and Joe, I’m acknowledging incremental improvement (did you actually read what I said?). But Vol, your point that it’s being done without a legit center and PG, is EXACTLY my POINT and my CONCERN. Given no lotto pick and no money and no action from the front office, HOW are we going to change that? Joe, if what you say is true, that limiting Belkin’s chances of a top-3 would be a motivating factor, then why not lift a finger to improve the immediate product. No movement=invalid point.
I expect them to continue to play around .500 ball the rest of the way. That would put them at 36 wins. No playoffs, and a very unlikely scenario for keeping their lottery pick. No top pick, no money for legit free agents (and the very supportable opinion that no agent in his right mind would steer a player to Atlanta until this ownership saga plays out) and, essentially, Marvin and a pick ‘em from a pool of less than desirable role players, as the only chips we have as trade bait for a big.
So, maybe I’m just ahead of you guys, time line-wise. I’ll concede “incremental improvement”. In fact, I already have. But with no playoffs in sight this year, and real infrastructure problems in-house, I’m still at the question of, “what then?”.
Assume this is an improved, near .500 ball club. Given all the roadblocks, to the typical way teams improve in the off-season, how much different does it look going into next season? And how much better can it get without answers to the legitimate concerns we have in the paint and at the point (which is the exact same question I was asking last summer, before the draft and the Speedy signing)?
I’ll say it again: without a change in ownership and the front office, this team is steaming towards it’s optimal potential of being a .500 club, fighting for an 8th seed and a quick exit from the playoffs.
I want what I’ve alway wanted, since the day this blog started: a realistic plan towards building a legitimate contender in the East. Billy has failed to build it, or even show a viable path to such an end.
I’m hoping that Belkin takes over, and has sufficient financing to establish the perception, around the league, that Atlanta is stable and on it’s way up. With that, and a new GM, we can finally hope to pursue a long-term solution at center. Then, and only then, will this team really offer something to be excited about.
To me, being satisfied with this team is just like a kid who’s happy because he’s only getting his a* kicked once a week, when it used to be three. He’s still getting his a* kicked. I want the Hawks to be that kid, after he’s taken his martial arts lessons, coming back to his neighborhood and kicking the tar out of all the old bullies.
Is that too much to want for my local team? And how much closer would we be if Billy had drafted Igoudala, either point guard, and a center prospect instead of Shelden (or Ellis instead of Salim)?
Billy needs to go. If the Spirit don’t have the money, or the legal right, to manage this community asset properly, then they need to go, too. We’re being held hostage by greed and ineptitude. I’ve always been about the long term with the Hawks, and a few, utterly meaningless wins, isn’t allaying my fears of just how hamstrung we are right now.
No apologies for my opinion. I don’t expect you guys to apologize for yours.
By mykhalc
February 15, 2007 01:43 PM | Link to this
ANDRO, without gettin’ to metaphysical on ya…”THE POWER OF NOW” by Eckhardt Tolle should help you to live in the present!!! you really are STUCK my brotha!!LOL it’s either what happened in the past or the draft pick that we’re not gonna get in the future!!! it ain’t about the moment for you, is it???? the good thing about this book is you can check it out while one of the those meaningless, ASTERISK WINS might be occurin’!!!
By mykhalc
February 15, 2007 01:52 PM | Link to this
ANDRO, that martial arts analogy was ALMOST on point!! the part that you’re missin’ is that in-between the kid gettin’ his A$$ kicked and comin’ back and kickin’ the tar outta the bullies, SOMETHING HAS TO OCCUR!!! that actual somethin’ is THE MARTIAL ARTS LESSONS themselves!! and that’s where this team is!!! they are in the studio takin’ the lessons!!! so i would think you’d either choose to watch the student take the lesson or just come back after the course has been completed and the belt earned!!!!
By Volman
February 15, 2007 02:06 PM | Link to this
I bet we have the most asterisk wins in the nba! hah!
By Ken Strickland
February 15, 2007 02:11 PM | Link to this
Before the Hawks embarked on the just completed road trip, some of our so called fans predicted we’d go 0-4. There were others that predicted we’d go 0 for the month of FEB. I guess that’s why the NBA insists that games be played to determine the outcome. This team hasn’t been as good as some of us would have liked, but it hasn’t been as bad as some of you have implied.
I don’t believe the Hawks will make a trade, unless it’s as a 3rd party participant. We’ll use the rest of this season to establish team chemistry, define rolls, and get Speedy and Marvin on track. We’ve already determined that Zaza can come off the bench with little, if any, loss in productivity.
Also, be careful what you wish for. If Belkin wins this law suit, it’s almost a certainity he will purge the team of more than just Woody and BK. That means JSmith, JChildress, MWilliams, SWilliams, Zaza, Speedy and JJ could be traded. Those of you still having flash backs of the players BK shoulda coulda drafted or traded for, think about this. We could end up with another Stan Kasten type Gm, or worse, a Belkin puppet. We could become the East Coast version of the DSterling, EBaylor, Clippers blueprint. We’d be run on the cheap, and annually looking forward to the lottery, rather than the playoffs. AT LEAST WE KNOW THAT WITH THIS TEAM, WE’LL BE IN NEXT YR’S PLAYOFF HUNT. BUT, INJURIES COULD PLAY A ROLL LIKE IT HAS THIS YR. BARRING THOSE EARLY SEASON INJURIES, IS THERE ANYONE THAT DOUBTS THE HAWKS WOULD BE CHALLENGING FOR A PLAYOFF SPOT THIS YR? LET’S HOPE FOR THE BEST.
By Volman
February 15, 2007 02:24 PM | Link to this
amen, Ken.
Like I have said, there are many critics this year of this team. People really need to look at the overall improvement of this team, and the strides they have made.
I shutter at the thought of Belkin owning this team. He looks like a “Grinch” (pun intended, Andro) and a boring person at that. Does he know anything about basketball? We need a YOUNG owner or group of owners like we have right now (Mark Cuban-esque) to lead this team and take chances.
Then again, this is the Hawks we’re talking about.. They aren’t supposed to be good, right?
By Anakin Joe
February 15, 2007 03:10 PM | Link to this
Ando, I don’t expect any trades for all the reasons that have been long documented. The Spirit owners are enjoying the best of all possible scenarios. The team is playing better without spending additional cash.
There may be a happy median where they spend another million or two and win more games. But I’m guessing they have reached that sweet spot until the ownership battle has concluded. If we actually end up playing close to .500 ball (with the execption of December), I’d be hard pressed to argue their approach given the ridiculous circumstances.
I’m okay with enjoying the maturation of this unfinished product. At least, we’re clearly on the right path.
By Cedric
February 15, 2007 03:12 PM | Link to this
Some good points out there guys and I think that this team is improving at a better pace than expected. I don’t think anybody thought that Speedy was gonna come here and make us forget about not drafting Paul/D. Williams, but he is coming around as he is getting a little more healthier. Hell we have Salim (who anyway Tiger you can forget about him and Esteban going to Boston because Allan Ray shoots it like Salim and Kandi makes more money than Esteban and we would not like him anyway) who Woody for some reason does not like to play and we have T. Lue who when he is healthy plays great alongside JJ. I think our biggest need is somehow getting a better inside presence who can have some kind of tenacity about himself and just demand respect in the paint like the Pistons big men do. Their big men just know how to play tough smart basketball without hacking like Lo and ZaZa. Last night ZaZa kept fouling Chris Kaman in the paint like he was unstoppable or something. Make the guy earn it first before you put him on the foul stripe.
Honestabe keep puttin in their place because the Grinch needs a reality check. I was at those games when the Hawks dealt the Warriors a nice a* kickin with all there playas except J-Rich. Even the losses at home against Jazz, Bulls and Heat were closely contested. Just couldn’t not hold the lead and now hopefully they are learning to get the lead and hold it/or come back from being down in the 2nd half and win like they did on all the wins on this trip. That is the sign of an improving team no matter what the circumstances are. Just like honestabe said Grinch you are omitting some key points about this team, so keep on watching these boys play because they need the support. They will give you a headache watching them, but at the same time they can be entertaining. Come out at the Arena after the All-Star break because we have some tough games ahead and it will make or break this team coming down the stretch. I was skeptical looking at the Feb. schedule at first but now they have a winning record in this month and that is after playing two and a half weeks of ball. 5 on road w/4-1 rec. and 3 at home w/0-3 rec. We have to come support the home team at home and give them that edge. I don’t know if anybody knows why they always loose at home, but play better on the road. It is a mistery, but hopefully they can play their way into some respectability league wide. Then some free agents would want to come aboard. Holla at everybody after the break. Go Hawks.
By mavid
February 15, 2007 03:21 PM | Link to this
great post honest abe! thats always been my problem with ando too (even though I do respect his bball opinions as much as anyone)
By HB Ando
February 15, 2007 03:31 PM | Link to this
Myc, Very cool points. I like, and appreciate, what you are saying. I am stuck regarding my opinion of the front office. My fears for the near future DO damage my ability to enjoy the improvements that ARE occurring on a nightly basis.
Abe, I honestly (heh heh) would prefer to be wrong. I’d rather see this team acquire, through any means, a legitimate big man, and make strides towards being relevant in the NBA again. I still believe that by fans utilizing forums such as these, and making their voices heard that they will settle for no less than the best, that necessary changes are still possible. If the collective voice, of the Atlanta Hawks’ fan, is that we are completely satisfied with the job they are doing, the direction they are going, then there is less pressure on ownership and management to address the obvious shortcomings of their efforts. I believe that the only way for this franchise to ever achieve greatness is to have the absolute highest expectations placed on them, by their fans.
As I’ve already said, several times, I’m very much enjoying watching them play better basketball. But I also want the organization to hear that they haven’t fulfilled their obligation to the ticket-buying fans of Atlanta by putting the best possible product on the floor. I want them to hear that the avoidable mistakes that have been made matter to folks. And if no one is saying it out loud, on what we’d like to believe is a solid forum to do so, then they might think that they don’t have to do anymore to satisfy the fans. I just find it necessary to push for accountability. It exists in every facet of the business world. It exists in relationships. Why shouldn’t it exist for the owners and front office of this franchise?
Ken, please give me one solid reason to believe that Belkin would trade away Johnson and Smith? To be honest, he’d be welcome to trade the rest, as long as it’s part of a well-designed plan to improve the franchise. Seems kind of silly to view players of a perpetually losing franchise as untradeable. From what I’ve been reading here, most folks would welcome trading Zaza, Speedy and Shelden (with the latter two, we’d be repairing the damage of horrible decisions by Billy Knight), if it brought us a big man that would improve the team. So why should that be a scary notion? I’d like to see current ownership make a big deal. It’s one of the first things I’d hope Belkin would do if he took over.
I actually hesitated in saying what I did, knowing that it would largely be attacked. I decided that being the bad guy was better than letting off the pressure I think is necessary, to be consistently and continuously applied to ownership and the front office.
No matter how many times I’ve outlined the pragmatic roadblocks to necessary acquisitions and roster changes, that seem likely to preclude us from realistically adding a much needed franchise big man, no one has yet tried to argue that those roadblocks exist, nor offer a viable plan that would resolve those impediments. I take that to mean that my concerns on where we go from here, over and above the gradual improvements of the existing, young roster, are pretty valid.
I’ll continue to hope that calling attention to those challenges, most of which are the direct result of Billy’s bad decisions and/or ownerships’ devastating, ego-driven divorce fiasco, will ultimately result in either hoped for changes in the make up of the front office and ownership, or a perceived need on the existing parties’ part to find a way to adequately address the problems they have created.
Appreciating the improvements of the existing roster, and demanding more from, or changes to, the decision makers of this franchise, are not mutually exclusive. I don’t know why it’s so hard for some of you to simply accept that I have a different agenda than many of you, in coming here and posting my thoughts. It’s OK with me that some folks want to come here and root-root-root for the home team. That is their right, and their choice, for how they want to utilize this forum.
But I haven’t believed in Billy Knight’s plan from the get go. And I believe my concerns and fears have been routinely validated. And I don’t see where we go from here, that takes this team to a desired, competitive level. Without significant changes to the roster, this team caps out as a borderline 8th seed. So I’m going to keep asking tough questions, and leveling the highest expectations, on the powers that be.
Again, no apologies.
By jhan
February 15, 2007 04:04 PM | Link to this
Awesome road trip. This team looks like a real contender against the West. Too bad we are in the East.
While this team is playing much better, they are still a ways off. No sense in going over what is needed. That has been rehashed too many time.
I will just enjoy the growth & hope for some finalization to the ownership mess. That is when some real moves will likely take place.
By HB Ando
February 15, 2007 04:30 PM | Link to this
BTW, Durant’s father says there is no assurance that young Kevin will enter the draft. Now, I don’t believe this for a second. But I offer this as a means to generate a smile on the faces of my critics:
If both Oden and Durant stay in college, I hereby apologize for all my whining about losing that pick and giving a lotto to Phoenix. It will still have been a very short-sighted, stupid move on Billy’s part, not to plan better, knowing the projected strength of this draft. But it will hurt a little less…………
By mykhalc
February 15, 2007 04:45 PM | Link to this
ANDO, i think i figured it out for ya bro. you NEED ONE MORE ENTITY!!! we’ll all know who DARTH ANDRO is and the over-the-topness that he brings!! then there’s ANDO who is a bit more grounded but still a BK hater and can’t get past that. so you need a ‘DRO who is the more hip, grounded, and can appreciate the moment of the 3!!!you feelin’ it????LOL
might be problem on which one of the 3 of you gets the killa seat when you, DOC and JHAN head to arena to catch the YOUNG GUNS!!!!LOL
By Ken Strickland
February 15, 2007 08:47 PM | Link to this
ANDO, it’s not hard to see that Belkin has an ego, and likes to be in control. It’s also easy to see he and BK have very hard feelings towards each other. I don’t believe Belkin, assuming he wins, would want anyone to be remotely able to credit any of the teams future success to BK, under his ownership. Since JJ is BK’s prized acquisition, and the cause of Belkin’s legal fued, the possibility simply can’t be ignored.
Just like you, and others, have been very critical of certain personnel moves by BK, I’m certain the same holds true for Belkin. Just look at how some of his draft decisions are still haunting some of you, over 3yrs later. I’M WILLING TO BET THAT BELKIN IS NOT ONLY ITCHING TO GET RID OF BK AND WOODY, BUT ALL SYMBOLS OF THEIR SUCCESS AS WELL. THE ACQUISITION, AND DEVELOPMENT, OF JJ INTO AN ALLSTAR, JSMITH INTO A POTENTIAL ALLSTAR, AND JCHILDRESS INTO A POTENTIAL ALLSTAR CALIBER 6TH MAN, ARE AMONG THEIR BIGGEST ACHIEVEMENTS. TO DISMISS THE POSSIBILITY WOULD BE UNDERESTIMATING HIS EGO, AND HIS DISDANE FOR BK AND THE SPIRIT.
By Ken Strickland
February 15, 2007 09:08 PM | Link to this
SORRY, THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SPELLED DISDAIN.