Hawks

By tired orf it

February 8, 2007 01:28 PM | Link to this

I bashed him yesterday and he showed up.

I will give Marvin props for his play yesterday. He did what we scream at the others to do : when you can make a jump shot, take it to the rim and get to the line. If you looked at his stat you would have thought he scored maybe 8 points.

Why JChill passed up a 3 foot shot and gave it to someone for a 18 foot shot, I will never know. He could have dunked it, shot it of the glass, drawn a foul.He passed it cross court to a rookie? Guess Sekou is right, got to blame the players for this one. I like the rotation of players last night, but we don’t seem to get the fact that when you get a lead, you must get to the line to protect it in the final minutes.

By Devon

February 8, 2007 01:32 PM | Link to this

I got an idea…

How about we stop messing around with these “owners” who have no clue how to run an NBA franchise.

At this point I’d almost rather have Belkin come in and get rid of the “Atlanta Spirit Dunce Group”. I have heard about how horrible a person he is, but come on, the guy loves basketball and wants to field a winner.

As long as Billy “I only draft for Wingspan” Knight and Mike “Pass the ball to the NBDL Player I’m giving 20 minutes a game” Woodson are in positions of power this team will continue to be the moribund laughing stock franchise of the NBA.

We have a legitimate star in JJ, yet we give him ZERO other options, other than LOADING our team down with undersized 4’s.

The Shelden Williams pick still baffles me.

The Marvin Williams pick not making sense is only amplified every time Speedy “I’m making $6 mil to SUCK” Claxton steps on the court to go 1-for-15.

This team is in disarray and it is only by sheer drive on Joe’s part that we have the wins we do.

FIRE WOODSON, FIRE KNIGHT, FIRE THE SPIRIT SQUAD CLOWNS!

By This is going to be ugly

February 8, 2007 01:33 PM | Link to this

I hope they packed their helmets.

By Anakin Joe

February 8, 2007 01:50 PM | Link to this

Ando, you MUSt be attending practices, because I have no idea if Solomon is any good. The few times I’ve watched him play, I thought he showed that he should earn a little more time. Same with Slava.

If we had a coach who had consistent rotations and showed any kind of creativity about using his resources, then maybe I could join you in grading out these seldom used players. I still contend, that if and when some of these guys go to teams where they have a clearly defined role, get consistent time and play with quality distributors, many of them will excel.

I can’t enter into a debate about whether Solomon is any good. Unlike you, I have only seen him in a handful of games for a few fleeting minutes. Tell us all how he looks in practice.

And what does point differential have to do with a team’s record? Most young teams are more likely to win by 5 and lose by 20 anyway. The rollercoaster ride that is the Atlanta Hawks completely invalidates stats like point differential.

Sekou, what’s the deal with Salim? How is it that he has lost his playing time to a 10-dayer? Why not send him to the NBDL and let him regain some trade value down there. Goodness knows he would easily score 25 a game against those scrubs.

By Dan

February 8, 2007 02:07 PM | Link to this

I don’t think it is too hard to predict this trip. There will be losses, and many of them. I will call it now, the Hawks will not win one of these games.

Here is my take on this team: First, I don’t like that Josh Smith is starting to shoot jumpers again. That guy is great when he attacks the basket and plays at the block. When he stands outside shooting jumpers, nothing good happens. I am tired of Woodson trying to make Josh Smith a 3. He is a 4. Stop shooting the f’ing jumpers!!

1. Slava is better than Sheldon. I am done with Sheldon. He can’t play at the NBA level. Slava is better. Give him some minutes.

2. I want to see more people getting on Marvin Williams. By that I mean the coaches, owners, and his teammates. We had to sit around all summer and here how good he is. He has too many games like the Laker game. Last night was OK, but that kind of performance should be the minimum, not cause for celebration. At some point we have to start seeing all this “potential” that we keep hearing about. Marvin, step up!! Make your shots!!

3. Salim is the most overrated shooter on this team. I have never seen anyone earn the reputation of being a “sniper” when he misses most of his shots. Him not playing has not bothered me at all.

4. I love Josh Childress, but he has been missing too many easy shots of late. He is starting to remind me of Al Harrington.

By Tyger

February 8, 2007 02:43 PM | Link to this

These are the games that haunt you and keep you in the abyss. Losing at home, by 2, to a quality team, that you have on the ropes but dont put away, is not a good effort but an ongoing lack of progress.

You lose by 2 b/c you give V. Carter a gimme dunk with 1.2 seconds on the clock b4 the half. Unacceptable in the NBA, period end of story.

Thats where we are with this team, they’ve got to be accountable and it needs to start yesterday.

I was pleased to see Woody go deeper into the bench and find minutes for Slava and Jeremy and they responded. You’ve got to have confidence in the players for them to play confidently.

Increasingly, we are seeing the wear and tear on JJ: 10 pts. in 43 min. He needs rest. And you have to see what Richardson can do in game situations.

He has shown flashes that he may be a keeper, but he cant be expected to come in cold and knock down winning three’s. Get him involved sooner.

He shouldve passed up on that last shot, with 4 seconds left and swung it to Marvin at the top of the key, but when you dont get to play, you press.

All of the stars from Team USA are hitting the wall, see LBJ, Wade etc. They cant play those huge minutes back to back, you’ve got to get JJ down to 38 min. unless he’s on fire. When he clearly doesnt have it, use that as an opportunity to preserve him for the crunch.

By William

February 8, 2007 03:00 PM | Link to this

Pretty good game last night. My thoughts:

My name is Marvin Williams. I have score like 15 points this quarter because the nets bigs can’t stop me off the dribble. Don’t let me get ANOTHER TOUCH in the game. Seroiusly, in those 3 timeouts Woody called after his last points, he didn’t draw up a SINGLE play for the hottest guy on the court? REALLY?

1. I see what childress was doing. When Richardson’s man came to double, he was looking for Richardson to cut to the hole for the layup, not stay there for the jumper. Thats why the pass barely made it to him. I don’t blame either player. It was a decent shot, and you couldn’t ask for more with the game on the line. HOPEFULLY this will lead to Richardson gettng some minutes to spell Joe Johnson who is just playing WAY too many minutes.

3 of Josh Smiths fouls were HORRIBLE calls and that is what really cost the Hawks the game. The energy level when he was in and when he wasn’t was incredible.

Did anyone notice how much better the offense looked with Slava in the game with Zaza…taking those midrange jumpers that Sheldon has been missing. I know, he only hit one, and took another, but on the next few plays, they didn’t cheat off him which allowed the guys to finish at the basket. Of course this will lead to a DNP in the next game.

If only we had a athletic, shotblocking guy to match up with Miki Moore. If he was somewhere around 6’11 or so with long arms he would have helped greatly. Especially to be a deterant at the rim after Josh Smith fouled out. Too bad we don’t have a player like that on the team….seroiusly, what did Solomon jones do?

By mykhalc

February 8, 2007 03:45 PM | Link to this

JOE, DAN, TYGER, WIILIAM, all of you cats had great points and posts today!!

no doubt, SLAVA should see the court before SHELDEN!!

no doubt, SOLOMON should be seein’ more time!!

no doubt, SALIM is the most OVERRATED ‘sniper’ ever!! how did he get that rep anyway??? ARIZONA PLS!!!???

no doubt, ‘not-ready-for-primetime’ WOODSON just sucks as a coach!!!

no doubt, this team STILL DOES NOT KNOW what kinda team it wants to be and sooooo much of that can be attributed to WOODSON’s lack of vision and creativity as a coach!! i can forgive the players that are young and inexperienced and lookin’ to be led!! i can’t forgive BK and WOODSON for not providin’ that leadership. hell, where is STOTTS?? oh yeah, MIL!! gimme him over WOODSON any day!!!!

By Traceman

February 8, 2007 03:47 PM | Link to this

I thought that Josh Smith was the only guy who played with any intensity last night until Marvin picked it up in the 4th. Part of the reason Josh fouled out is because everyone else was letting their men get by them and Josh had to cover for them.

Marvin needs to keep being aggressive and going to the rim like he did in the 4th. Why Woody didn’t draw up that last play for him is beyond me. Everyone knew they were going to deny JJ at all cost so Marvin would have likely got a good look and in fact, he was open on the shot that Richardson took.

Finally, I don’t understand why Woody didn’t put Lorenzen, Solomon or Zaza in the game when we were up 85-84 and Carter drove to the hoop and scored. We had NOBODY on the floor who could even contest his shot once he decided to elevate in the lane.

I still don’t underst

By Tyger

February 8, 2007 04:10 PM | Link to this

From USA Today

QUOTE TO NOTE: “It was nothing they did differently. I think I was more fatigued. I think, physically, right now we just need to get back on track. Their defense was the same. Nothing they really did differently. They double-teamed a lot more in isolations, but other than that, there was nothing (different).” — Hawks guard Joe Johnson, on the success the Nets had against him Wednesday night.

PLAYER NOTES:

—Shooting guard Salim Stoudamire should have been taking notes on the performance of Nets guard Eddie House, another former Pac-10 (Arizona State) who has found his niche as a shooting specialist in the league.

—Small forward Marvin Williams had four shots blocked near the rim Wednesday. There is no official stat for that one, but he has to be among the league leaders this season.

—Point guard Speedy Claxton continued his erratic play this season, making sure that the ire of Hawks fans remains laser-aimed at him.

—Center Zaza Pachulia wasn’t able to come close to matching the energy or efficiency of Nets center Mikki Moore.

By HB Ando

February 8, 2007 04:19 PM | Link to this

Joe, you’re just being cantankerous. Neither one of us has a clue whether Soloman’s lack of playing time is justified, or some further confirmation that Woody is doing a bad job. I do know that, from both what I’ve read, and what I’ve seen when he has played, he’s underweight and has fairly weak fundamentals. His one clear value seems to be his combination of length and jumping skills. But if he can’t shoot, dribble, or effectively run his role in the offense, then he’s not going to get on the floor.

And what does it say about Shelden, when our second-round pick, who plays the same position as our #5 pick, suddenly becomes the plausible answer to our teams’ interior defense. Shelden was drafted for his ability to step in and contribute major rotational minutes. Soloman was drafted in the hopes he would develop into a legitimate option over the next few years. Now, half way through the season, Soloman is the answer that Woody is ignoring? Bolderdash!

And if you don’t understand the value of a statistical comparison between the equally young Celtics, and the Hawks, in which the Hawks have a worse point differential that the team with the worst record in the game (that equivalency of youthfulness, combined with the fact that the C’s are without their JJ, Pierce makes this apples-to-apples comparison that much stronger in its negative implications for where the Hawks really are as a team), then I simply can’t help you, and you’re either showing your lack of grasp, or you’re just showing your a*.

I’ll stick to my interpretation of that statistic as underscoring that the Hawks are a lot closer to being the worst team in the league than being the 8th seed. This road trip should doom them into a spiral of negative outcomes, as they tear apart at the seams, in a protracted series of losses.

Billy’s three primary moves, Shelden, Speedy and Lo Wright, along with the jettison of Al Harrington, has us as the second-lowest scoring team in the NBA. Brilliant.

That’s my prediction and my opinion. If you don’t agree, then we can assess it after they return from this road trip and see if I was right or not.

By Clyde

February 8, 2007 04:26 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY T-SHIRTS ARE STILL AVAILABLE AT ATLCONNECT@HOTMAIL.COM.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Anakin Joe

February 8, 2007 04:36 PM | Link to this

Ando, yeah, let’s forget about the ability of Woodson to coach, the level of competition they face out west, the fact that JJ (along with other USA Basketball teammates) looks dog tired, that both PGs are unhealthy, that the team has a bottom 3 payroll and that the youth of the team contributes to the uneven performance from game to game. Let’s ignore all of those factors during this trip and focus solely on your theory that the drafting of Shelden andthe signing of Lo and Speedy is why this team may struggle during this road trip. Yeah, that sounds completely logical and objective to me.

And for those with revisionist history, the major need for this team has finding some interior defensive help this off-season. No doubt whatsoever that Shelden has not provided that need. But don’t tell me that if BK had drafted another wing player, that we all would have been cheering the guy. Heck no. We would be wondering how Foye or Roy was going to stop the lay-up drill. Its one thing to swing at a strike and miss (which BK did with Shelden), its another thing to keep your bat on your shoulder. Same result? Yes. But I’d much rather see my GM try to address the team’s needs rather than stockpile talent (especially when trading that talent likely requires increasing the team’s payroll which is an unlikely outcome). The more likely scenario (than trading Marvin and Roy for a $14M Gasol) is that we would have 17 wing players on our 15 man roster.

By William

February 8, 2007 05:05 PM | Link to this

I am not on the Sheldon Williams bashing bandwagon yet. He is inconsistant, which is expected of rookies (except in Atlanta for some reason). He is putting up 6-6 which gives him arguably the 5th best numbers out of the top 10 draft picks this year. If you are saying they should have picked for the ability to trade the pick, then okay, fine, but lets not pretend the guy is putting up horrible numbers of a rookie.

Same for Marvin. the guy has very good games in 7 of his last 10 and people pretend like he is horrible. The “I’m tired of hearing about potential” excuse would be fine if he wasn’t in his second year of the league. or first year when you look at how many games he played last year and a broken hand on this year.

Bottomline, young players are inconsistant. That is how it is. You have two extremely young players that show flashes, which is the most you expect. consistancy comes with time. I am cool with marvin and Sheldon, although I know that Sheldon is a 4 and a legit Center is needed.

By dap

February 8, 2007 05:11 PM | Link to this

Andro:

What is your current prediction of wins this year? What is your prediction of ranking in the race for worst record?

By Guy in Gwinnett

February 8, 2007 05:37 PM | Link to this

WOW! HB Ando that post was brilliant! As a fan it really p** me off to see other GM’s in the league get it right but some how the Hawks manage to get it wrong year in, year out. I was able to meet B.Knight at the annual season ticket holder gala and I asked him did he regret not taking Chris Paul over Marvin Williams and this clown looked me in my face and said NO!!! His exact explanation was “I don’t like little guards and Marvin is a big guard that do many other things” So then I proceded to ask this clown, if you don’t like little guards, why did you spend 6mil on Speedy, why did you draft Salim? His response ” I felt like those guys could come in and be an immediate impact on the team” After I had sat there and listened to this guy contradict himself over and over I said “nice to meet you” and I got away from that clown as fast as I could!

Joe needs help, we don’t have any pieces to trade, free agents don’t want to come here! We over pay for guys like Speddy that come here and stink it up! I ‘d rather see Royal Ivey than Speedy, neither one of them could hit water if they fell out of a boat but at least Ivey plays D! We need to a real “CHRIS PAUL” type PG that run the team. Did anyone see the rookie PG, Williams for the Nets last night? He was taken 16 spots after Sheldon and he looked great running the offense while J.Kidd was resting. Like I said before, it really p** me off to see other teams get A’s and B’s but we continue to Flunk it up!!

WE WOULD BE COMPETING FOR THE 7TH OR 8TH SPOT IN THE EAST IF WE WOULD HAVE DRAFTED CHRIS PAUL AND NOT MARVIN WILLIAMS!! IF HE DIDN’T START AT UNC HE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN THE #2 PICK IN THE NBA DRAFT. IF ROY WILLIAMS KNEW HE WASN’T READY, WHY DIDN’T BILLY KNIGHT AND THE REST OF THE HAWKS MGT KNOW?

By Tyger

February 8, 2007 05:43 PM | Link to this

Shelden Fit the Need

In retrospect, its easy to point to Shelden as a suspect pick at #5. But in 2006 draft, w/ biggest need BIGs, Shelden was the appropriate pick.

Bargnani, Thomas and Aldridge were gone. Morrison, Roy, Gay and Foye were not BIGS. Left were Patrick O’Bryant (NBDL), Saer Sene (NBDL) and Hilton Armstrong, none of which are better than Shelden.

Shelden is not the STAR you would hope for at #5, but in time, he’ll provide quality depth. It was a Need and Safe pick for the future.

BK missed on Speedy badly, that’s the crux of our problems. He overspent on a damaged player and cant recoup, without something equally risky.

In NBA, $7M per gets a pretty darn good player, a couple notches below All-star, but in our case, we got nothing, absolutely nothing.

Now, we’re outta the money, the expected productivity and the roster spot. And probably will have to move a young stud to fix it.

Pachulia hasnt progressed which makes Shelden look worse. If ZaZa scored and defended instead of flop. Shelden’s strong fundamentals would have biggger impact, but more often than not, he’s left holding the bag.

Lo Wright does his job, “he’s touching people”, b/c Lord knows, noone else will.

Dont know why Lo and Estaban, cant just BANG together for a minute or two early in the 2nd. It would set a nice tone for the remainder.

By Harry Hawk

February 8, 2007 06:18 PM | Link to this

This blog needs a name change.

How about “The Hawks Blog with Blog-Z”?

By HB Ando

February 8, 2007 06:40 PM | Link to this

Dap, prior to the official “prediction” blog, I was stuck in the 31-34 range. I was being beaten daily with complaints about my obvious ax to grind. I tried optimism and predicted 34 (last year, I predicted 26 on the blog, which was on the button). I think that those who suggest that we would end up higher than 34 wins if it weren’t for injuries, are neglecting the reality that injuries are big part of the NBA, with over half the teams it the league having lost significant time by primary contributors. Those things work themselves out in most instances.

Look the only team averaging less than us in points per game is NO, and they lost Peja two months ago, and had not Paul for over a month. They’ve put a roster of journeymen on the floor, and they still have a better record than us, despite playing in the far tougher Western Conference.

I actually broke down our competitors for the 3rd worst record at the very tail end of the last blog (Ridnour).

I think we’re legit for the 3rd or 4th worst record, at years’ end. Night in and night out, we’re not competitive at the 1 or the 5. Ownership, in anticipation of vacating the premises to their former partner, won’t lift a finger to improve the roster. That fact will be the coup de gras on the morale of this young team.

Starting with this road trip, we fold up like a cheap tent. Johnson starts looking for avenues to get out of town. Speedy sits out due to “chronic” knee problems, that were likely identifiable by a basic orthopedic exam BEFORE he signed his $28 million deal. Marvin continues to show that he’s Al Harrington “light”. People like Tyger continue to point to Shelden’s 6/6, with virtually no shot blocking ability, and unclear on the definition of “no additional upside” refuse to understand that those will be his career averages as well.

And, finally, I will tell everyone the sky is blue, at least most of the time, and A-hole Joe (sorry, must have been a typo) will caustically question my intelligence while making it clear the the sky is obviously (to anyone with half a brain in their head) purple. Subsequently, I will seek out Joe, outside this open forum, and ask him if he would kindly hook me up with his connection for said “purple” haze. Surely, whatever he smokes, is better than what I can get (despite the fact that I don’t actually smoke).

Tyger, if you want to see guys the size of Lo and Estaban “bang together for a few minutes” this is the wrong blog for you. I suggest a different google search, or a trip to Southern Nights.

By A Thinking Fan

February 8, 2007 06:42 PM | Link to this

Old Post On another note: Shaq’s back!!! 4 rings one NBA MVP. The Commish should be ashamed of this. Heat win four in a roll. Amare back - Suns are awesome this year. BK we need a big man - NOW!!!

By mykhalc

February 8, 2007 06:46 PM | Link to this

there is a lineup that PRODUCED the FIRST WINNIN’ MONTH in 3 years!! there is a lineup that WAS developin’ some chemistry!! there is a lineup that WAS developin’ an identity of what kinda team it was/is/and wanted to be!! that lineup is JJ, JC, MW, JS, LW/ZAZA (you pick the 5…i’ll take SJONES). but WOODSON, thru his infinite wisdom, decides to try get the injured/not full speed LUE and SPEEDY back into the rotation!! it AIN’T brain surgery!! i don’t care that CHILLS is not a PG!! he’s got b’ball smarts and usually makes good decisions!! i’ll take that any day over 2 guys that are NOT healthy and usually DO NOT make difference in the assist dept anyway!!! tho, i will give LUE his props…he is a true pro!!!

By mykhalc

February 8, 2007 07:01 PM | Link to this

and LUE is willing to take the BIG shot!! wanna make sure i acknowledge that too!!! WOODSON…GEEEEESSSSHH???!!

By mavid

February 8, 2007 07:07 PM | Link to this

mykhlac, earlier i had said that guys like sjones, ivey, etc arent getting much playing time for good reasons (you said it was just woody not playing them). I disagreed. Ando sums my point up nicely as far as solomon goes: “I do know that, from both what I’ve read, and what I’ve seen when he has played, he’s underweight and has fairly weak fundamentals. His one clear value seems to be his combination of length and jumping skills. But if he can’t shoot, dribble, or effectively run his role in the offense, then he’s not going to get on the floor.”

exactly! sjones, ivey, etc are not that good. the fact that you are calling for them to play more just shows how bad we really are (they are MARGINAL players in the NBA)… now, i dont argue that sjones might develop into more, that doesnt mean he is ready for more playing time now (let him develop his game in practice, in the NBADL, or in limited minutes in games… him playing 10-15 minutes will harm us more then it will help) we can agree to disagree on this one tho.

By mykhalc

February 8, 2007 07:23 PM | Link to this

MAVID, we HAVE agreed to disagree!!LOL i have also seen earlier in the season when SJONES did have a productive nite in his limited minutes!! the bottom line is, i DO NOT trust WOODSON to make sound decisions!! PERIOD!! and until i see SJONES get the SAME chance they have afforded IVEY over 2 years then i will continue to stand behind my statements!! and as far as your and ANDO’s belief, you (just like the rest of us) DO NOT KNOW why WOODSON rotates like he does!!!

By mykhalc

February 8, 2007 07:35 PM | Link to this

one other thing, your quote of ANDO sounds like he was describin’ DEKE!!! and we all KNOW what a defensive minded, skinny, non-dribblin’, lengthy, reboundin’ BIG can do!!! and if you do not wanna give SJONES a chance then hell, i’ll take SLAVA gettin’ on the court!! i’m easy!!!! bottom line is, WOODSON lacks the skills to lead this team…PERIOD!!!!

By mavid

February 8, 2007 08:11 PM | Link to this

ahaha please say you didnt just compare sjones to deke

who knows, maybe he’ll become that some day (i doubt it), but c’mon, when i see sjones i see:

a player who has a lot of potential, but is about as RAW as they come (his fundamentals just arent where they need to be yet)

By mykhalc

February 8, 2007 08:33 PM | Link to this

you can pretend that you don’t know what i’m sayin’ but i know you do!! interpret however you choose my friend….that’s on you!!

By roan st

February 8, 2007 08:46 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, I totally agree with you on playing solomon jones. I don’t know if the guy will be any good or not but he can’t be any worse than lorenzen wright. When in doubt play the young guy and let him develop instead of going with an underperforming veteran on the downside of his career. What the hell do the hawks have to lose by playing jones? They already know what their going to get out of lo wright-NOTHING. So play the damn kid and lets see if he can develop. That probably makes to much damn sense for this moribound franchise.

By HB Ando

February 8, 2007 09:20 PM | Link to this

Guys, nothing would make me happier than to see Jones in the primary rotation. But he’s 5 inches shorter than Deke. He’s, at best, an emerging Ratliff. And that’s expecting a whole lot more than reality suggests.

Look, we’ve got to stop trying to make these guys out for more than they are. If Jones was Deke, who is a defensive player of the year, or even Theo, he’s be on the floor for starter’s minutes. He’s not, and he may never be. So the idea that Woody has a First Team Defensive All-NBA on the bench, is simply ludicrous. More likely, Jones just isn’t ready for prime time, and may never be.

It is what it is. There’s no conspiracy theory that keeps this team from jumping into the upper echelon of Eastern Conference teams. We’re bad. Have been for a long time. And based on what I’m seeing, will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

I know it’s not fun to acknowledge, but sometimes the truth hurts………

By mavid

February 8, 2007 09:32 PM | Link to this

so apparently BK was on 790 on Monday saying that he was actively looking to make a trade

who knows if he really is tho

By Dan

February 8, 2007 09:51 PM | Link to this

William,

I like Marvin Williams. Ever since the Summer League season, I have gotten the impression that he is babied by the owners and coaches. I think, assuming that is true, they need to start riding him more. I just think he is better than what he has shown this year. Most games, he plays great for 2-3 minutes and then is a complete nonfactor. He has to give more.

Sheldon Williams is not a good player. I do not see how he fits this team at all. I do, however, like him a lot more than I like Speedy. At least Sheldon doesn’t fake injuries and make more $$ than Chauncy Billups.

Mavid, did you hear what position BK is looking to trade for? I would love to hear him come out and apologize for bringing Speedy in this past summer. There just has to be a way to get out of that contract. Speedy needs to leave. Sooner rather than later.

By mavid

February 8, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

^^ nope, BK made no specifics

and yes, signing the horrificly injury-prone speedy to a 4 year deal was retarded…

i actually liked the signing of speedy under the condition that he would be healthy… well that hasnt happened

By Steve T

February 8, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

Grant Long said something I have been preaching the whole season. The Hawks need some people that will go after a shot. If you can not block the shot, give a hard foul. There should not be any easy basket.

The nets were driving to the hoop too often with ease. I do not care, somebody please some guys on their can. If you let people know, I am going to hammer you if you drive to basket, then they will stop driving. I would use Lo Wright, Slav, Estban, Shelden, and Solomon to do the dirty work.

By mykhalc

February 8, 2007 10:17 PM | Link to this

ANDO, MAVID, come on now!! i did NOT say that SJONES was a DEKE. i’ve posted over 2 yrs here and i’ve got a little credibility about havin’ SOME b’ball common sense!!??? well, at least in my mind I DO!!

i said what i said because the SAME things were said about DEKE when he first came into the league, THE SAME THINGS!! couldn’t dribble…too skinny for the paint…couldn’t score…wasn’t a great passer!! and i have followed his career from G’TOWN to DEN thru ATL to HOU. but what he could do and did WELL was rebound and block shots!!!! and at this point, I WOULD like to see if he can do that for this team!!!

people (you can include yourselves or not) are soooooo quick to categorize a player havin’ no clue or history how the player will play with extended/consistent minutes!!! and because i do not believe WOODSON knows what the hell he’s doin’ with rotations, i choose to believe that there’s a GOOD chance that SJONES can bring some solid reboundin’, block shots, good FT shootin’, athleticism, and put backs if he’s given half the chance and PT IVEY has been given over the last 2 yrs. i DO NOT need to see what LW and ZAZA will bring anymore!! been there, done that!!! gimme the ROOK!!!!!!

By mykhalc

February 8, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

and at this point, I WOULD like to see if he (SOLOMON) can do that for this team!!!

gotta be clear around here these days!!!

By Wedgie Evans

February 8, 2007 10:28 PM | Link to this

Tyger, GMs who burn #5 overall picks on “quality depth in time” are usually the GMs who get fired. When you have a lottery pick, you ideally want to get a guy who will be a solid starter in the league, minimum. When you have a top-5 pick, even in a draft as weak as 2006, you want to get a player you can build a team around — at worst, you want a player who can be the 2nd or 3rd best player on a good team. And the cardinal sin for a lottery pick is to reach for a position of need. When you have a chance to get a future All-Star like Brandon Roy, you have to get him, even if he doesn’t fill the greatest need on the team. If the Hawks had gone after Roy or Randy Foye, they could have used the Speedy money to sign a big guy instead, and the team as a whole would be much better right now. Free agency is where you target positions of need, not the draft.

By HB Ando

February 8, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

Steve, I’m confused. You would “use”? Dude, they’re out there every night. You’re either a player who plays that way or you’re not. You just arbitrarily named all our big men, who, as you pointed out, HAVE NOT stopped anybody from attacking the basket, and then said you WOULD use them to do what they’ve failed to do.

Just, exactly, how do you USE somebody to do something that they don’t do?

I’m trying to find an analogy that underscores what a stupid statement that is, but all I can come up with is something that has to do with nuns and acting like a slut. And even though I have problems with boundries, I can’t bring myself to clarify what a ridiculous comment that is.

You just named all our big men but Zaza. Is there something about Zaza that precludes him from a reasonable responsibility to join his fellow big men is stepping in with a semi-flagrant foul? Do you think that the coaching staff has specifically directed those who you’ve named from playing in a physical manner? What the heck is your point? And what is this nonsense about you preaching anything?

Are you drunk, or did someone hit you on the head with an implement of destruction this weekend? I don’t really care which it is, but I guess I would be more understanding if your stupidity was the result of some type of physical assault………….

By Dan

February 8, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

As much as I go out of my way to rip Speedy, I will admit he has had some momments. He was brought here, however, to be a difference maker. He hasn’t even been close to that.

Plus, I belive he knew he was injured when he signed that contract. It will take a lot to get me to think otherwise. I just think the guy is a piece of crap. I don’t want him here. Give Royal Ivey the extra work and let’s go on with buisness.

Anyone think the Hawks can keep it close tomorrow night? If it is within 20 pts, I will take it. I just think tomorrow will get very ugly. Ever since I first saw the Hawks schedule, I have been dreading this month. It will be bad.

By mavid

February 8, 2007 10:36 PM | Link to this

points taken mykhalc… i too would like to see something different happen at the 5… i just dont think the player to do it with is on this team yet, haha

JJ got snubbed from the 3-point contest too! I honestly thought he would get in

By Dale

February 8, 2007 10:38 PM | Link to this

Just a few random thoughts, then I’m going to bed……………

BK’s only saving grace this year is that (as I predicted) LaMarcus Aldridge and Ty Thomas drafted ahead of Shelden, look like busts. However Shelden is at least 2yrs older than both those guys, so only time will tell.

Those of you calling for more playing time for Solomon Jones are out of your d*mn minds. That boy needs to be playing in the DLeague, he is not a NBA player.

I’m beginning to question the sexual orientation of Marvin Williams. He has got to be the softest player in the league.

I predicted last year, that BK passing on Chris Paul, would set this franchise back for 5 years. Now the passing on Roy or Foye, with the blockbuster signings of Lo Wright, and Craig Claxton, with getting nothing in return for Al Harrington, pretty much writes the book for the decade.

Is it me or does Joe Johnson look like he has aged 5 years since November 1st?

By HB Ando

February 8, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

Myc, Deke is only about 4-5 inches taller. I’ll stick with the giving him the ultimate benefit of the doubt, and comparing him, at his absolute best upside, to Ratliff, who is also about 6’10.

I could be wrong, but wasn’t Deke a top pick? Again, we need to get away from obscure comparisons. If Jones was Deke, he wouldn’t have been a second-round draft pick. In the NBA, there’s a HUGE difference between over 7 feet, and 6’9ish.

Not saying Jones won’t turn in to a viable player. But comparing him to a young Dikembe is just silly.

By mavid

February 8, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

ahaha his real name is craig, i didnt know that.

DALE, I wouldnt call marvin “soft.” He takes it to the rim HARD (unlike shelden, zaza, etc). Its his finishing that needs work. Luckily, that is something that players learn with experience. Marvin will get better and better about how to effectively finish at the basket. The saddest part is, he does take it to the rim really hard, but often gets blocked. I can see his frustration when it happens too (you can almost sense that the coaches are telling him, take it to the rim hard, try to get fouled)… and then when he does it and gets blocked and manhandled, he gets very frustrated. In time he will get better tho, that I’m sure of.

Also, anyone who thinks that Brandan Wright won’t face the same learning curve that Marvin has, is outta their mind. He should stay in college another year to develop more, just as Marvin should have.

By HB Ando

February 8, 2007 10:53 PM | Link to this

Dale, how do they look like busts?!

Neither of them was expected to contribute right away. Go read ANY pre-draft scouting reports on either of them. Both were viewed as having the length and athleticism to develop into franchise big men. Both have done about exactly what was expected of them.

I just don’t understand where some of the nonsense on this blog comes from. Please find me one legitimate report that suggested that either Aldridge or Thomas were expected, by the teams that drafted them, to have an immediate impact. Neither was projected to start this year. Seems like both are about where folks expected. Yet you come here and suggest that both look like busts.

What is wrong with some of you people?!

By mykhalc

February 8, 2007 11:08 PM | Link to this

ANDO, i can go with the RATLIFF comparison. but for me it’s not the player to player thing i’m so concerned with. i’m talkin’ more about what can SJONES bring to the team. IF he can do the things i listed then guess what??…it makes him like RATLIFF, DEKE, etc. it makes him like any other 5 that does those TYPE things for his team!! and i DID NOT say ‘EXACTLY LIKE’!!!!

By Clyde

February 8, 2007 11:29 PM | Link to this

If Lorenzen, Zaza, and Sheldon can’t do the job the let Solomon Jones try. We can’t keep throwing the same guys out there everynight to get our a**es whipped.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Volman

February 9, 2007 12:00 AM | Link to this

Sekou, did you ever change the channel because you didn’t want to see when the Hawks would choke and give the game away? Sometimes I change the channel back and I see they HAVEN’T choked. Just shows the guys are so inconsistent (a.k.a. young)

I look away sometimes when I’m at Philips, too.

Let’s all pray for the best this road trip!

By reese

February 9, 2007 12:22 AM | Link to this

Anakin Joe, in the last post you asked if anyone noticed that the joshes and marvin don’t get the ball to the point guard early in the fast break.

On a fast break you don’t have to get the ball to the point guard. The key is to get the ball to the middle of the floor if it is a 3 on 2 fast break. It can stay on the side on a 2 on 1 fast break.

Plus, Joe, marvin, childress and smith are more than capable of keeping the dribble themselves when they get the rebound and out running t lue down court to push the pace of games.

Steve T, there as so many other things to do on defense than just fouling someone driving into the lane.

A player can take a charge, get a steal, block a shot or play straight up d to make the offensive player shoot over them. Additionally, other players can rotate to force a double team.

Fouling is a very last resort and has the potential to produce a 3 point play, place a key player in foul trouble, lead to a flagrant foul where the other team shoots free throws and a technical, lead to a break away foul where free throws are shot and the team keeps the ball. Worse, it causes players to get hurt. Didn’t we have this conversation before.

By reese

February 9, 2007 12:27 AM | Link to this

Help me understand the comment by woodson and some bloggers that JJ would never be able to get a shot off in that late game situation because New Jersey would send a double team to stop him. Woodson did not consider him an option to take the last shot.

You mean to tell me that the hawks don’t have a play to get their best shooter a shot with 7 seconds left in the game.

If its that easy to stop our key player, then why don’t we have a defensive scheme designed to stop Vince Carter from getting a dunk at the end of the first half or a layup with 14 seconds left in the game.

Did we have the wrong players on the floor. Inquiring minds want to know.

By mykhalc

February 9, 2007 02:30 AM | Link to this

SEKOU, great Q & A with JJ!!!! he’s a pro’s pro!!! WELL DONE!! now if you could only get that ever elusive Q&A with BK!!???!!!!

By tb

February 9, 2007 03:10 AM | Link to this

Here’s something interesting. Don’t know where he found it but it looks good to me.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=11476604#11476604

By g

February 9, 2007 08:04 AM | Link to this

If all you guys know so much, why in the hell are you not the owners, gm and coach? How did everyone become b-ball experts.

By Dan

February 9, 2007 08:34 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

Like mykhalc said, nice job with the Joe Johnson interview that was in today’s paper. Joe is great! Too bad he has to get thrown into the fire tonight.

Good news, though. Steve Nash will probably not play tonight. Might be able to keep this within 20 pts or so. We’ll see which Hawks team shows up.

Also, Sekou, can you interview Josh Smith and tell him to stop shooting so many jump shots? Thanks.

By Ryan

February 9, 2007 08:49 AM | Link to this

honestly i think billy knows he is going to be fired so he wants to mess this team up as bad as he can b4 he goes out so it will be like a big f*ck u to the hawks.

By doc

February 9, 2007 09:09 AM | Link to this

ando, the guy evaluating whether folks can play in games i.e. soloman you spoke of is the same guy who couldnt find a reason to get boris more time on the court while he was here. at some point there has to be some accountability for the way he uses folks in certain situations and develops their confidence. it seems he is very slow to build these youngs guys up, the most recent game noted where a young unproven ended up with the ball. now, that might have been more chills issue than woody’s desire but i’ll give him credit for having a shooter on the floor. just why wasnt salim on the floor instead or why wasnt soloman on the floor when carter took it to the basket untouched? certainly soloman could have done some damage in that situation, take a foul and then sub out for an offensive player. seems like someone cant make the moves to do the dance is all.

in the two games we have attended together you have noted more who wasnt on the floor at certain times than who was for the opposition as they wait for their moment to pounce; most recently kobe resting while jj used up more minutes and energy on the floor then was easily taken by kobe and picked clean by a rested smush. his “rotations” are frequently abused by the opposing coaches.

you have spent sooo much time on the bk thing that you have failed to comment on some pretty obvious flaws in the hawks, the owners and woody. not sure why but you are late to the party with the recent criticism of the owners saying that with the divorce eminant their might be some reason for them not to spend money or to trash the organization on the way out, inoring soooo much of their inaction that would have been appropriate. i can see billy going to those guys this past summer when it was well chronicled that the warriors were interested in dealing for al; “well spirit have i got the deal for you we get two guys who can play and we only give up al and take on the salaires of dunleavy and this big guy who can reboumd and score but he just cant play big defense to block shots. we will be a better ball club because we will have depth and guys who can share some of the load thereby giving jj better looks and maybe a chance to sit on the bench in non-critical moments”. what do you think their respnse was?

seems funny that the guys who trained billy got those two guys in a heartbeat and until there was some more turmoil in the nightclubs were on a pretty good roll. now lets hope that jamaal has continued the damage that artest, jackson and now tinsley started and we can move up the draft slots as they go under. wishful thinking but that is the kind of fantanking i will do as woody tries to learn how to win.

By Anakin Joe

February 9, 2007 09:43 AM | Link to this

Reese, I understand that those guys are capable of getting the break started, but when your PG is standing 2 feet from you and he has shown the ability to set up teammates in fast break situations, give him the freakin’ ball. Speedy has definitely shown flashes during those elusive minutes when he is playing. The lob passes, the penetration and dish, the constant stealing of balls (he is nothing short of amazing when it comes to picking someone’s pocket). But as rumors circulate that he doesn’t like to play with a missing eyelash, you have to wonder if he will ever become the on/off court leader that we need.

Doc, I absolutely could see the scenario you painted. In a way, BK’s isolationism distorts the picture. Those GMs who whisper in the ear of “NBA insiders” would use the media to leak that their owners are impeding progress. We’ve heard that Portland’s owner stopped Darius Miles from being traded last season. We’ve heard that Dolan has restricted Thomas from dealing this season. We’ve heard that Sterling really likes Maggette and wants to keep him. BK obviously doesn’t play that “rat fink” game. If you’ve ever had employees working for you, you know the value of someone who is either loyal and/or obedient. To BK’s credit, he has never stated that his hands have been tied. But when every GM in the league says that the Hawks were looking for “non-basketball assets” in return for Al Harrington, then it is very clear that he is working under completely different parameters than the vast majority of GMs (excluding Bickerstaff).

Oh yeah. Doc, thank you for stating what should be fairly obvious. That Woody is the last coach whose player rotation is to be trusted or treated like the gospel. Solomon Jones could be Camby-light for all we know. His pre-draft info suggests that he has a decent outside game and is a tremendous shot blocker. We know that his physical attributes are incredible… long wingspan, tremendous vertical leap and a legit 6’10”. Skinny? Obviously. Raw? Sure. But its hard to imagine that he can’t get 10-12 minutes a game on a team desperate for shot-blocking. But some seem to believe that if Woody doesn’t play him, then he must be a huge waste of a pick, because Woody certainly knows how to use the talent on the team in the right game time situations. Yessir, Woody has definitely proven that over his 2.5 seasons. (Gag, gag)

By Clyde

February 9, 2007 09:50 AM | Link to this

Where is Ken Strickland? It seems to me he hides when the Falcons and the Hawks go on losing streaks.

Also where are all of those people that said Billy was doing a great job? Even Charles Barkley stopped letting that lie come out of his mouth. Come to grips with reality. The only thing Billy is doing for the city of Atlanta is embarrasing us.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Dan

February 9, 2007 10:01 AM | Link to this

Anakin Joe & Doc,

Soloman is better than I thought he would be. I agree he should play some. He has shown the ability to hit the 15 foot jumper from the ‘L’ and has played OK defense. I just do not know if I think playing him more would have resulted in anymore wins.

Also, I think Slava should get more time. The guy is big and strong. Plus, he has experience. I don’t understand why the Hawks brought him in just to sit on the bench. Sheldon is not really contributing much. Why not play Slava?

As for the pick the Hawks got from the Pacers, it is protected if it is top 10. So if the Pacers tank, and I think they will, the Hawks are at risk of losing that thing. There is a chance the Hawks will not have a 1st round pick this year. That would hurt.

Hey, at least we have Speedy, right?

By Clyde

February 9, 2007 10:02 AM | Link to this

The OFFICIAL FIRE BILLY AND WOODY t-shirt will be on full display Friday Feb 23rd against the Rockets. Holla at me if you want to join the movement.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Anakin Joe

February 9, 2007 10:20 AM | Link to this

Dan, I completely agree with you on Slava. He has a very consistent jumper and is always willing to bang down low. I’d even say that he can sometimes be a little “dirty” on the defensive end. He won’t block shots, but he’ll get plenty of value out of his 6 fouls. But hey, if Woody says that Zaza is the only big man worthy of more than 24 minutes a game, then he must be right. After all, he is a master of player rotations and using the resident talent.

By mykhalc

February 9, 2007 11:06 AM | Link to this

DOC, JOE, DAN…yep what you said and what i said!!LOL

By mykhalc

February 9, 2007 11:32 AM | Link to this

and more upside to givin’ SJONES a look is…just imagine how that takes SOME of the pressure off of JS knowin’ that he’s got somebody else back there to help him out…somebody else that can LEGITIMATELY block some shots!!! one other consistent double digit rebounder (no matter who) changes sooooo much about how this team can then go about it’s business of tryin’ to compete.

until i see some changes, whether it be trades, changes in the rotation, or play callin’, i will CONTINUE to believe that BK and WOODSON are really practin’ the art of tankin’ without tankin’!! how can you explain WOODSON’s willingness to play 2 non-healthy/injured players but yet cannot find minutes for a look at SJONES and SLAVA. but he can find minutes for RICHARDSON (which personally i think IS good but totally NOT WOODSON’s MO)!!

i know SEKOU said that the players have to be held accountable, and they do. but the biggest reason for this team showin’ like it does now is WOODSON’s lack of knowin’ what to do and when!!! when he did STUMBLE onto a good rotation, he destroyed it as quickly as his lack HEAD coachin’ skills knew how!!!

By Dan

February 9, 2007 11:48 AM | Link to this

Clyde,

I saw some people (don’t know if it was you or not) wearing those shirts. They were standing in the CNN Center after a Hawks game. I just can’t remember what game it was….I keep thinking it was the Pistons game.

Anyway, not sure I like the shirts, but at least it shows me that I am not the only one that cares about this team. I wonder sometimes….my buddies are all huge sports fans, but could give a crap about the Hawks. Nice to see that there are others who feel the pain of rooting for this franchise.

By Clyde

February 9, 2007 12:27 PM | Link to this

Dan that was me if the shirts were red with white writing. It was the Pistons game.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Anakin Joe

February 9, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this

From today’s espn.com blog with Chris Sheridan:

*Jesse (Atlanta, GA):: How long until we can expect a final resolution of the Atlanta owernship crises, and how much will the uncertainty affect the team at the trade deadline and during free agency? *

• Chris Sheridan: (12:02 PM ET ) The case goes to an appeals court on March 2, I believe, and my understanding is that the Belkin group will be trying to get an injunction to gain operating control of the franchise while the appeal is pending. That’s after the trade deadline, of course, and Billy Knight still has the freedom to make deals even though he’s the first guy Belkin is going to fire if he gets control of the team (teams actually, because the NHL Thrashers are in the mix, too). That being said, I don’t expect the Hawks to do anything of significance. They’ve even been rebuffing calls for Tyronn Lue. *

(Anakin again) I have no idea what value there would be to Belkin taking “control” of the team if he can’t replace the head coach or GM without the consent of the other owners. Unless the governance rules are invalid prior to the actual sale and formal dissolution of the partnership. Maybe that is part of the ruling that he is seeking, that those rules be tossed out in the interim. I wonder if “control” means taking over as NBA Governor for the team or truly acting as the sole owner of the properties. What a freakin’ mess. In theory, he could fire BK and Woody and a few months later, lose the appeal and then the Gearon crew could fire whomever Belkin put in place. UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

By Dan

February 9, 2007 12:57 PM | Link to this

I’m not sure if I want Belkin or not. If I were asked at last season’s end, I would have said no. After watching this season, however, I’m not so sure.

I really have a problem with Speedy Claxton being on this team. Plus, the Hawks are still losing games they should be winning. Just think if they had won the Utah, first Chicago game, first Seattle game, and Wednesday’s NJ game. They would be right in the mix for a playoff spot.

Clyde, if Belkin takes over, you will at least get 1/2 of your wish. Billy Knight will be fired in an instant. No question about that.

By Clyde

February 9, 2007 02:03 PM | Link to this

We need to hurry up and get rid of Lue.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Woodson is retarded

February 9, 2007 02:06 PM | Link to this

Esteban had 8 points and 12 rebounds against NJ last season….why woodson dosn’t give him a shot? FIRE BILLY AND WOODY. ZAZA YOU SUCK,SPEEDY YOU TOO.

By HB Ando

February 9, 2007 02:15 PM | Link to this

Joe and Doc, now you’re twisting my words. I said that neither Joe or I have the requisite insight as to whether Soloman’s lack of PT is due to legitimate rationale or Woody’s poor decision making. I’ll stand by that.

And there’s a grand gulf between getting Soloman 10-12 minutes, and him being the answer to our lack of interior defense, which is what I’m hearing people start to gravitate towards. I don’t think he was a waste of a pick at all, and never have suggested he was. But if he lacks the necessary strength and essential fundamentals, which IS what I’ve observed when watching him play, then he’s just not ready. He was drafted as a developmental pick.

What I am saying is that it’s awful funny that folks are already turning away from our “solution” for boards and blocks, old pick #5, and desperately reaching for Jones to emerge as the solution. There simply cannot be a greater indictment of taking Shelden at #5, when folks are calling for our clearly not ready second rounder to come to the rescue. At the beginning of this year, the discussion regarding Jones was that folks hoped he would develop, over the next few years, into a plausible solution to anchor the paint. Now, all the sudden, we NEED his presence on the court. That’s a joke. If he was expected to be much more than he is, he wouldn’t have lasted until the second round, in a weak draft, with virtually no quality big men. If he was in Cedric Simmons’ class, since they’re both viewed as bringing similar traits to the court, then he would have been in the late lottery discussions. He wasn’t then, and he’s not now. He’s raw as heck and not ready for prime time. But, as bad as we are, I actually don’t see any reason not to throw him out there for a few minutes and get him experience. If it was me, I’d play him 40 minutes a night. I want to keep that draft pick.

My lineup, right now, would be Royal, Salim, Childress, Shelden and Jones. I’d shoot for 30 straight L’s and take Oden if he came out, Durant if he didn’t. I’m CERTAIN this franchise goes no where fast, given the ownership limitations, bad coaching , bad GM, and the impossibility that any quality free agent, in their right mind, would ever come here while things are the way they are. That pick is our only legitimate hope of moving forward in the near term. Whether that’s trading it for a veteran big like a Gasol, or drafting the future.

And doc, how am I late to the party on ownerships’ impact? I’ve never once made it all Billy/no Spirit. Never. I don’t think in absolutes (other than I”m absolutely sure that Billy Knight is one of the worst GM’s in the history of the NBA). There’s always been plenty of blame to go around. And I can’t actually hold the Spirit accountable for not spending any money right now, if they are going to lose the franchise and have no way to recoup future returns on operating expenditures. But by the end of last season, I had no problem supporting you and Joe on your position that the Spirit were playing a major impact in Billy’s failures to make any mid-season moves. I don’t need to stick him with that blame to have all the evidence necessary that he’s an abomination as a GM. The moves he has made, which weren’t governed by finances, are plenty bad enough for him to be long gone.

I’m certainly not holding Woody blameless. I’ve held that he’s a sub-par coach SINCE the Boris fiasco. But that doesn’t mean he’s not capable of making an accurate assessment of Jones’ readiness at this time. Being bad doesn’t mean he’s wrong 100% of the time.

So, good Doctor, don’t misrepresent me, and say I’ve given ownership and Woody a pass, at the unfair expense of my focus on Billy’s failings. It’s absolutely inaccurate of you to say so.

I may have to start calling you:

Spin Doc

I give you guys of plenty of ammunition to take me on. There’s no need to target, or just plain create, things I haven’t said or done, if you just want to scrap a little.

By Dan

February 9, 2007 02:30 PM | Link to this

Clyde,

Get rid of Lue??? No way! He fits perfectly on this team. If they get rid of him, we will all live to regret that move. Not a chance!

By Tyger

February 9, 2007 02:38 PM | Link to this

Wedgie

I agree with taking the best player available. In fact, I personally, wanted Roy or Gay. But lets be honest here. If BK had taken either, there wouldve been such a public outcry from everyone, except Hawk purists, that it wouldve been unbearable.

People are still scouling over the Chris Paul pick. Adding another wing consecutively wouldve been like adding salt to the wound, even if it wouldve been in the best interests of the franchise.

I love the idea of stockpiling talent. B/C as it turns out, we arent finished rebuilding and we need to see who pans out. So far, we know JSmoove is a keeper but the jury’s still out on Chill and Marvin.

A Gay or Roye wouldve made either or both expendable and given us a pocket full of gold to bargain with. Or we couldve kept them all and instead of signing NBDL players we would bring another stud off the bench.

But again, Shelden is fine, he’s just not as sexy as Roy or Gay or Foye. He’s a goon and he’s going to be a starter for a long time. When this team rounds out, we’ll be happy we have a fundamentally sound player to do the dirty work Shelden does.

And I maintain, get a real BIG center next to him and we’ll see those results sooner.

By Jameyan

February 9, 2007 03:05 PM | Link to this

I was on realgm.com and I just traded Speedy,Salim, and Batista for jarrett jack and Jamaal Magloire. The trade worked. Too bad BK won’t make it work.

By Dan

February 9, 2007 03:06 PM | Link to this

Tyger,

I don’t even think it is really a BIG center that the Hawks need (although, that would be a nice addition). I just think they need a tough and scrappy player. We have talked before about Aaron Williams (Clippers) and Jeff Foster (Pacers). Those guys give the Hawks fits because they are strong, full of energy, big, and tough. We do not have anyone on the roster that fits that bill.

BIG centers are hard to find. That is one need almost every team in the league has. I don’t want them to get a 7 footer in here, unless he is a good player. Big guys that are not good players become more a problem than an asset.

By honest_abe

February 9, 2007 03:11 PM | Link to this

i keep sayin this and everyone blows me off like it’s the dumbest idea ever.

BUT, i believe it’s a great idea. the hawks need some kind of publicity stunt! why? to garner some kind of buzz around this franchise. we all know that woody is not head coach material. why not have some kind of promotion where they have a contest and allow a regular joe blow to coach the hawks. this would bring the franchise a tons of media scrutiny. the worst that a guy off the street would do is make the hawks the team with the worst record in the nba. and the hawks end up getting the 1st pick. when a franchise is this bad. you have to start thinking outside of the box. bleh what am i saying we don’t even have a freaking box!

By Dan

February 9, 2007 03:12 PM | Link to this

Ando,

I like reading your posts.

I don’t agree with you on Boris Diaw. I don’t consider that a fiasco at all. That guy was crap when he was a Hawk. I didn’t hear anyone object when the Hawks included him in the Johnson deal.

Diaw is a product of the Suns’ system. If it weren’t for Steve Nash, you would have forgotten all about Diaw. Put him on another team and he is a complete nonfactor.

I for one am glad Joe is on this team. Diaw was a small price to pay to make that happen. People need to quit talking about that trade like the Hawks got nothing out of it. Knight leaves himself open to get ripped with a lot of his moves. Letting Diaw go is not one of those moves.

By Dan

February 9, 2007 03:15 PM | Link to this

Jameyan,

Why would Portland take that trade? They would be getting screwed on that deal. Salim is a “sniper” that can’t shoot and Bautista is not good enough to even see the floor these days.

I don’t think the Pope could make that deal work. Give me a break!

By mykhalc

February 9, 2007 03:47 PM | Link to this

ANDO, keep it real now. i don’t think ANYONE has said SJONES IS the answer!! what folks are gravitatin’ to is ‘WHY NOT GIVE SJONES A TRY???’ so just like i DID NOT say he was another DEKE, don’t spin it into somethin’ it’s not!!i expect that from ANDRO!!!!LOL

SJONES may prove all your assessment of him to be true!!??? he might wilt under a consistent 20 minute load!! but UNTIL he gets the chance to be on the court for extended minutes, we are ALL just callin’ for what we personally feel MIGHT benefit the team!! well, except you, that is!!LOL

By mykhalc

February 9, 2007 03:59 PM | Link to this

ANDO, i stand corrected!! YOUR WAY of benefitin’ the team is thru TANKIN’!! so technically, in your mind and effort , it’s STILL A BENEFIT!! i get it bro!! and i’m tryin’ to keep it real on my end too!!!

By Anakin Joe

February 9, 2007 04:50 PM | Link to this

OK, I’m investigated this “tanking” notion and here is what I see. Boston clearly does not plan to win any more games. So one of the bottom 3 slots is reserved for Boston and it is not likely that they will relinquish that lead. Memphis, if they trade Gasol, would also be very difficult to catch. They are about 7 games worse than Atlanta. I don’t see a scenario where they win 8 more games than the Hawks in the last 35-40 contests (again, especially if Gasol gets dealt). So that leaves us to compete for the 3rd lowest selection. We are only about 3 games off the pace of several teams down in that portion of the sewer. Clearly, within striking distance.

Of course, the draft slots are based on the lottery. So we could tank and end up with the 6th best pick despite having the 3rd most balls. If memory serves, only the team with the worse record is guaranteed nothing less than the #3 (or is it #4) pick.

Sorry, can’t find a reason how “tanking” makes sense just to get the 3rd or 4th most ping-pong balls. I allowed myself to consider it, but can’t find a way to justify having the youngest squad in the league give up before the All Star break.

And by the way, Boston’s owners have guaranteed Doc that he won’t be fired for tanking the season. Can our owners make a comparable promise to Woody?

By doc

February 9, 2007 05:56 PM | Link to this

ando, my thoughts on soloman is to say he is a guy who could defend when the team is ahead and probably is the only guy who has shown the ability to block shots outside of smash who had already fouled out. he deserved to have one minute not 10 or 12, it was just an example of woody’s mismanagement, he had nothing to lose. it was also a play on your comments as saying woody ought to be making player evaluations as he has shown he can miss badly and not be held accountable by anyone except this raggedy bunch of bloggers. as far as playing with your words, geez dude, i was giving you nothing but cred about your insights to the flow of games. if i remember correctly after kobe came back rested i said he will make the next 4 of 5 down the court. i think he followed with 9 straight points.

my thoughts on your being late to the party only is in reference to your come lately thoughts about what the owners and bk can do to mess up things further. as you know for a long time i have said it was about the owners more than the guy who you have had in your sights as you gun him down with every chance you get. i am not his apolgist totally but am willling to look at his body of work and consider his restrictions before i deplore him. i have always said it is about the owners and felt it so from the point we lost game after game last year with no effort to spend where it was needed on a big and a point and saw it further when they neglectd to get the best player and draft for need which only suggests they were not going to spend money in the free agent market (said it draft day i think) unless you consider the 3 mil going to rens as he does nothing more than act the part. by the way is he up for an oscar?

just dont think i am twisting your words ando just appreciating how you have begun to broaden your scope of culprits to go after. you have to admit that if any owner person said to you what he did regarding the jj deal they are way of our league, thankfully, just flat dumb some of them, but with a lot more money. heh heh

By The Flash

February 9, 2007 06:04 PM | Link to this

Wow, Andoman, you started out as the poet, but got very, very dark, here man. Very dark. This team don’t need to stop people in the middle, it has to outscore the other team. It is about the offense, which is all about Woody’s shortcomings; it is not his thing.

Doc, you almost got it right about the ownership thing keeping Billy locked up and all, but I said it from the beginning, “you lie down with wolves and you will be eaten.” Billy got what was to be expected.

Belkin will be a good owner should he get the chance; Andoman, if you hadn’t gotten so dark, I’d still swear that you were him! Good stuff. You too doc. Thinkingman, well, you are mellowing. Just teasing, dude, lol.

By The Flash

February 9, 2007 06:20 PM | Link to this

BTW Doc, the past stuff aside, you do have to put it on Billy that none of the moves he made this offseason has contributed squadoosh.

The biggest and most costly miss was Speedy. Have to admit, that came from so far out of left field for me that I did not know what to think of it. Last I remembered seeing him was when he was playing for Hofstra.

Now, I ain’t no Ando when it comes to these things (I’ve said the same about Belkin, which makes me twice humble unless they’re the same guy), but the Speedy move has to cost you your job, almost standing alone, which it ain’t.

I wouldn’t have gone with Sheldon, but I was not hatin that pick as Andoman always was. I have to think that Woody’s offensive concepts have really hurt the guy. If you are a big and don’t get good touches, and the guys you are guarding do, it can bury you. Quicksand aka The Replacements.

I’m telling you guys, Belkin really ain’t a bad guy. He is just about as smart about basketball stuff as Andoman here, and wants to win even more badly than Abe. If he gets it, give him a chance. He’ll make you proud someday, I promise.

By doc

February 9, 2007 06:23 PM | Link to this

hey flash, as you know i did my research on belkin and the guy is a winner so it doesnt turn my stomach as i watch what has gone down to think of him as the owner, still think he pushed some major buttons to get it to where it is. if he takes them to vegas i am going to hold you accountable and insist you take me out there and introduce me to the guy who took them away. i’ll pay for it but you will have to getthe court side seats from him for us as vip’s. what we say down here is “if you lie down with dogs you get fleas”.

aj, maybe woody has gotten the word to figure out ways to fantank this team whenever it is close as some of his “strategy “doesnt seem to work, maybe it is intentional. now i think our true hope is to get a ball to fall right for us and maybe move up into the top three by the fall of the balls, you know finish fifth of sixth worst and get a third pick. now that would be gravy and justice for us all who call ourselves hawk fans.

By mykhalc

February 9, 2007 06:59 PM | Link to this

FLASH, PLS KEEP BELKIN UP THERE WITH YOU!!!!PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!

By The Flash

February 9, 2007 07:34 PM | Link to this

Myman, couldn’t if I would, and wouldn’t if I could. BTW, anybody who can go against Andoman the way you do, well, you might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

We both have our frustrations with Woody, and I definitely would not mind better interior defense. But, I still believe that offensive concepts dictate who is in control of the game, and make the game worth watching, not to mention playing.

And, that last game, you’d almost have to say that you’d take 80 of em, even if you lost the lion’s share in the same heart breaking fashion.

Chill read the defense perfectly; knew that a trap was coming before he even put the ball on the floor. He stopped and caught in perfect space, and that pass would have been a perfect move had the time on the clock permitted. As it was, you could see it in his eyes that he knew he had overthunk things, that he should have shot the ball, the moment it left his hands. Next time he will. I like the kid’s chances. BTW, while I ain’t communicated with him in some time, I’m bettin that Belkin does too! Later.

With more time, that pass would not have been half bad; but, , which he read all the way, and could and should have pulled up and put the damn thing in. My bet is that next time he will do just that.

By HB Ando

February 9, 2007 07:50 PM | Link to this

Joe, I’m not expecting the players to quit. Really, I’m not. But I’m making a case for the fact that with full effort, this team still ends up with about the 6th worst record in the league. I have made it clear that I understand how having the 3rd worst record is no guarantee to keep the pick. But if optimal effort gets us the fifth or sixth worst record, and we hand that pick to Phoenix, then what is the reward for trying?

Last year, Minny sat KG and Davis for the last several games, because they were at risk to giving up a protected pick if they picked up a spot or two. The league turned the other way. It’s not that rare. Boston is doing it as we speak.

I’ll say it again: I know that even the third-worst record does not assure us of keeping the pick. I know that keeping the pick does not assure us of drafting a franchise big man. But if we are not a realistic candidate for the 8th seed (see: Miami), and if we are in agreement that the owners can’t, or won’t, make any effort to improve this, once again, flawed roster, then what is BEST for this franchise, going forward, regardless of the lack of guarantee that accompanies it, is a solid shot at maintaining a top-3 pick.

Tanking is an idealogical construct. It’s implementation is murky at best. It’s value has the potential change our fortunes (though Billy has shown he can blow a second overall pick). It’s alternative is, clearly, an almost guaranteed, high lottery pick for, arguably, the most talented roster in the NBA.

Billy failed miserably, to protect this franchise, in the Johnson deal. I said, at the time, and no later, that it made far more sense to give up ‘06, because EVERYBODY KNEW AT THE TIME that it was going to be one of the weakest drafts in the last 20 years. It was the first draft without high school talent. Conversely, EVERYONE predicted, as early as the summer of ‘05, that the ‘07 draft was going to likely be historic.

I was pointing to this unacceptable outcome 18 months ago. If I could see the writing on the wall, that far back, why couldn’t Billy? He HAD to plan for the possibility that we wouldn’t improve sufficiently to be out of the lottery in ‘07. He HAD to do a better job of protecting this pick.

Regardless of what impact the owners have had on the last 18 months, that issue is far less relevant than Billy’s massive ego. He choice to reinvent the wheel on building a winning roster. He neglected repeated opportunities to acquire a legitimate point guard or center. His “long and lean” theory has been exposed for what it is: an unwinnable equation.

He ignored drafting for need when he shouldn’t have (Paul), and then flip-flopped worse than John Kerry, and drafted for need at the worst possible time (Shelden). He eschewed small point guards until over paying for the worst possible option as a small point guard. He paid for one who has never held the starter’s job, cannnot shoot, and has a history of injuries, which he’s dragged our wretched roster down further with.

I don’t expect the Hawks to tank. But as a fan with a clue, I’m strongly hoping that the outcome finds us in that very position.

Expecting “organic” improvement from a team of wing players is your hopelessness manifested as pure folly. Deep down inside, you know this team isn’t heading for some long-term break through. Our four best players play either the 2 or the 3. How are we supposed to build a winner around that?

Doc, I’ll take you at your response, but it doesn’t jibe at all with what I read, and responded, to. And the 10-12 minute comment was a specific allusion to Joe’s request that he see that kind of minutes.

I was trying to kill two old birds with one stone. Love ya, mean it………..

By mykhalc

February 9, 2007 08:04 PM | Link to this

FLASH, yep you gotta be ready to bring it when you’re dealin’ with ANDO and ANDRO!!LOL nothin’ but luv for all the cats here, no matter how they bring it!!! well, except for the idiots that show up every blue moon!!LOL might be people that get lost tryin’ to find the FALCONS forum!!!???LOL

good to see ya back, whenever ya got the time!!

i think you are dead on-point about CHILLS!! i think he was not quite ready for the moment??!! and like you, i believe next time he’ll handle it differently. i might be wrong but wasn’t that his first time with the ball in his hands for the possible game winner???

and FLASH you’re right about SPEEDY too!! it’s been discussed to death here but he’s gotta be the biggest disappointment of the year!! it just goes to show that you NEVER know who’s ready to step up and who can’t deliver. given the chance to be the #1 PG, a desperately needed #1 PG, and he shows he ain’t/can’t be/isn’t the one!! i thought it was a good move to sign him, a vet at PG but…my bad!! or was that BK’s bad???LOL i’m tellin’ ya, gimme CHILLS at PG the rest of the season. i’ll take his b’ball smarts to offset any lack of PG instincts he might be lackin’!!!

By doc

February 9, 2007 11:45 PM | Link to this

oh my, even a blind squirrel can find an acorn.

also, good news, the pacers lost their third straight.

raptors are going to be a team to keep an eye on.

By mykhalc

February 9, 2007 11:52 PM | Link to this

DOC, who were those guys??? you know i didn’t see it but saw the boxscore and almost choked on my black beans and rice!!!

By mavid

February 9, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

**yes, i am going to bold this entire post

WHAT A GAME! I dont care that Nash wasn’t playing, this was a tremendous win for us.

This is the first time all 4 of our core (JJ, JS, JC, MW) played well in the SAME game.

After seeing this, I really don’t want to make a major trade where we lose that core. They look good together, are fun to watch, and will only get better. This core could be SCARY sooner than we might think (although a legit 5 will have to be involved in all that).

Just look at those stat lines!

Smoove is playing like an all-star right now. DUDE WAS NASTY ALL AROUND TONIGHT. Blocking shots, and most importantly, TAKING IT TO THE RIM OVER AND OVER (dude is starting to learn i guess)

This game left me with a lot of hope, because I could really see what the 4 core players could do together, and it bodes well for the future**

As an afterthought, shelden is officially irrelevant to our roster (will play 15-20 minutes MAX for the remainder of the season, with 10-15 minutes looking more realistic)

WHAT A WASTED PICK!

By Dan

February 10, 2007 12:01 AM | Link to this

YES!!!!

Hey, do you guys think Steve Nash is an important part of Boris Diaw’s game? Diaw is not that great. Time to stop the “How did we let him get away?” BS.

Awesome win!! I can’t believe it! This team has two more wins than I thought they would get this month.

By A Thinking Fan

February 10, 2007 12:05 AM | Link to this

Flash my brotha, you can only kill a dead horse so many ways. Good to hear from you and the ole-timers, as well as the new energy coming from the youngsters…

By Volman

February 10, 2007 12:12 AM | Link to this

Yeah, like Dan said, I don’t want to hear any of the “Why did we give away Boris” crap anymore.. It’s really not that hard to sit at the top of the key and throw alley-oops to Marion and Amare….

Great win by the guys (I already posted on the Hawk Hack blog)… The “core 4” did look great tonight.. Marvin didn’t necessarily show up as much as I wanted (he needs to CONSISTENTLY knock down that elbow jumper..it’s not that hard, I did it in high school).

If we can keep Marvin consisten with his jumper, Joe bringing the double team, Josh driving, and Childress doing everything inbetween, then I can see this team being atleast playoff bound next year. THE TEAM CAN ONLY GET BETTER NEXT YEAR. They aren’t like the Falcons, who REGRESS. These guys are really working hard.

Speedy actually played pretty decent tonight, but I would rather have Childress out there at point (mykhalc, you’re obsessed with J-Chill!) haha.

Go Hawks

By mykhalc

February 10, 2007 12:19 AM | Link to this

did WOODSON STUMBLE back into the core lineup that worked in jan????

did JJ actually play all 48 mins???

By doc

February 10, 2007 12:21 AM | Link to this

diaw didnt look like an 8 million dollar a year guy tonight, whooo taling about throwing away money.

portland couldnt do it the other night as the suns won without nash in that one.

speaking of portland, pretty fair numbers being put up by roy. wish we had him as he has been in double figures in 21 of 25 games back from his injury and has scored over 20 in 5 of his last 10. he was the only rook that was ready for prime time this year and we looked the other way when it was our turn.

what got into zaza tonight? rens actually looked fairly decent.

ando nuttin but love bud. now who you pickin from the east? stickin to the bulls, changin to the pistons as they seem to have a pretty good run goin with webber, runnin back to the heat. can the raptors sneak in there? and i still think marvin will develop very much like bosh and be pretty fair as a player himself in two years, very similar bodies 1 inch and 2 pound diffferences. as good as he is from the foul line he has to take it to the hole every time.

By mykhalc

February 10, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

VOLMAN,LOL!! not obsessed tho. just can recognize that a healthy JCHILL at PG is waaaaaaaaaayyyy better than an unhealthy/injured SPEEDY!!! so how many DECENT games have we gotten from SPEEDY this season???? yep, that’s what i thought!! and i ain’t hatin’ either!!!!

By reese

February 10, 2007 01:15 AM | Link to this

first of all, great win hawks. Way to go zaza in joining josh smith with getting entries in every positive offensive/defensive category.

Just goes to prove that any team can be beat. Josh, way to push the pace tonight on offense and way to backup your teammates on defense. That block on amare down the stretch was awesome.

Every player who played did well tonight. Have fun in the Oakland/San Francisco area tomorrow and come back strong against Golden state on sunday.

By mykhalc

February 10, 2007 01:20 AM | Link to this

fellas, like i said, give WOODSON less to work with (ie…LUE to the inactive list), the less coachin’/rotation decisions he has to make!! the more he STUMBLES into bein’ effective!! tonite is ANOTHER example that my point is totally on-point!!!!!

and like i said, 30-40 mins for JC, JS, MW and 35-40+ mins for JJ is what it’s gonna take…PERIOD!!! and again with asterisk…as long as they are bein’ productive!!! ‘nough said!!! (again!!) LOL