Hawks

By honest_abe

February 2, 2007 02:45 PM | Link to this

great story on jj.

jj should have been an all star. period. what in the world is the criteria for being selected to the all star squad anyway? it’s just as vague as the major awards, MVP’s (of any sport)… but i think ss nailed it on the head. it’s all about respect and notoriety.

the bears will win the super bowl. count on peyton to choke. bah i can’t stand a former vol and former gator squaring off in the super bowl. it makes my blood boil.

i wanted to see smoking aces for the same aformentioned reasons… but i hear it’s a waste of time. but i keep hearing how great “the good shepard” is.

the hawks reel off 3 in a row? i expect another big game from j chill tonight. watch out everyone the hawks going to start february in foooine fashion.

By Jason

February 2, 2007 03:02 PM | Link to this

Definitely stay away from Smokin Aces. I saw it with some hardcore action movie friends and they were way underwhelmed as was I. It’s loud and kinetic without being the least bit dramatic and engaging.

If you can get to see Children of Men. Go immediately!! It’s an amazing movie. Lot of action all to a point, engrossing, riveting. Really great.

By dukeman42d

February 2, 2007 03:15 PM | Link to this

what best for the playoff are the lottery?

Also do we have a chance at the playoffs!

By Anakin Joe

February 2, 2007 03:24 PM | Link to this

This should be a VERY good game tonight. Raptors had a great January and are looking to show they are ready to stay in competition for the division crown. Meanwhile, the Hawks need to continue their winning ways, especially during the few home games they have in February. The defensive strategies that worked well against Dwight won’t play against Bosh. If I were Woody, tonight would be mostly about controlling the Raptors’ PG play and rebounding the ball.

Abe was that you commenting about the Hawks offense against GS? I personally think that had more to do with the Warriors’ disdain for defense than it did for the Hawks’ offense. We shot entirely too many jumpers against the Warriors. That’s my ongoing concern about this team, we seem to find more comfort in taking a 20 footer than attacking the rim. And yet virtually every team has success against us in the paint.

One last concern, I hope JJ’s teammates don’t stop shooting in hopes that he scores 80 points to prove the credits wrong. Someone needs to explain that JJ didn’t make the team because of our record. So if they want to show JJ some love, win some freakin’ games. Play with effort and consistency and maybe they can change the team’s reputation and in return maybe some guys will enjoy some individual success as well.

By WPinAZ

February 2, 2007 03:25 PM | Link to this

You’ll also want to take in “The Good Shepherd”. Diniro may be getting old, but gangster/mafia style movies still bring out his best.

By honest_abe

February 2, 2007 03:38 PM | Link to this

yup yup it was me aj.. i did preface my remarks by saying GS doesn’t play any defense, but it was an up and down kind of game. and the hawks thrived in it. do they take too many jump shots? yes. but without a single legitimate low post scoring threat. they have to play outside in. especially when people are sagging down and giving them wide open jump shots. i think alot of people have pointed out an obvious fact and that is that this young, athletic roster lends itself to play a more up tempo style. considering the hawks don’t have any interior defense. the hawks need to run, run, run!

By Willie Coyote

February 2, 2007 03:47 PM | Link to this

Hopefully JJ and company will take this disrespect crap out on the rest of their opponents. I have respect for the TNT crew but those guys were completely off yesterday when they gave Curry (and some others) all their props and avoided Joe’s name like it was the plague.

I hope they keep running like they did against GS. I would like to see them get more layups and less jumpers also but I’ll take whatever wins we get.

By HB Ando

February 2, 2007 03:51 PM | Link to this

SS, I agree that JJ should have made it, but one only has to look at Ray Allen, of the less-than-stellar Sonics, to see further evidence that great players, on bad teams, get ignored this time of the season. Rip Hamilton has no business being on the team in front of Johnson, in an objective assessment of both their talent and productivity. Johnson basically has to play the roles of both Rip and Billups on the Hawks.

Look, I know I’m at the extreme end of the negativity scale, regarding my opinions of this franchise. But it’s simply the way I see the situation. The Raps and the Blazers have both shown, this year, that rapid improvement is possible with the right personnel moves, which don’t have anything to do with spending a bunch of money (the excuse many are using for Billy’s lack of successful moves). The Raps get TJ Ford for a spare, talented forward. We get Speedy, for mid-level money. The Blazers are better using a second-year point guard, that Billy publicly stated, in the days after his draft, that he didn’t think was worth trading the Lakers/Boston pick for (which he subsequently gave away as part of the JJ deal). That PG would have made us much better and eliminated it’s availability for the Suns to extort from us. Jack’s backcourt mate will be the rookie of the year, and we passed on him to get Shelden.

My point is that both of these franchises found themselves in rebuilding situations, simultaneously to the Hawks, with similar financial constraints. And both of them have exceeded the Hawks this year.

If the Hawks finish this season sub-.500, something almost everyone with a brain has predicted, then they’ve improved. But towards what end? They just invested $28 million, over the next five years, in a point guard who hasn’t been able to complete one-half of one season, much less five. They’ve invested money and picks in a front line that no one sees has developing into a legitimate threat. They have a bad GM, a bad coach, and a hand-cuffed, financially moribund ownership situation.

Please tell me why you wouldn’t be moaning and complaining, other than to appease the relationships you have with the players, staff and management (which I cannot blame you for). I have no such relationships, so my subjective assessment is not impeded by those concerns.

If one believes that speaking out if viable stimulus for change, then there has been “Not Enough” complaining and moaning. If I truly believed that the only thing standing between the Hawks and success is “patience”, I wouldn’t be taking the stand I’ve made. But as time passes, and previous, negative predictions become truth, my beliefs have been reinforced more often than not.

And the reason the “regulars” here see me repeating myself is that every time someone seemingly new comes in, telling us that what is clearly crap is actually a bed of roses, I have no choice but to objectify my version of the truth, once again.

BTW, I liked “Alpha Dog”.

By mykhalc

February 2, 2007 03:51 PM | Link to this

yes JJ got snubbed but i hope he’s over it already. well over it with a chip on his shoulder!!

my biggest concern right now is WOODSON and his handlin’ of the ‘possible’ return of SPEEDY tonite!! WOODSON has been on my ‘not-ready-for-primetime’ list since the beginnin’ of last season. but lately i’ve been more pleased than not of his handlin’ of PT for the core 4. and even with LUE’s return, the PT of MW, JJ, JS, and JC was not impacted in a negative way, especially since JC is seein’ quite a bit of PT at PG.

WOODSON, i am BEGGIN’ you!!! PLEASE DO NOT LET THIS CHEMISTRY LOSE IT’S MOMENTUM IN AN EFFORT TO WORK SPEEDY BACK INTO GAME SHAPE OR A ROLE!!! he cannot be the team’s long term answer at PG!! physically, he just cannot be the one!! so don’t let any short term vision lead you to think or reason that SPEEDY’s physically ability can have an impact on this teams performance in a positive way. as one of the regulars had pointed out previously, SPEEDY’s performance before he shut it down DID NOT lead to wins. his reinsertion will probably bring only more of the same!!! see it for what it is and coach accordingly!!!

By Clyde

February 2, 2007 04:08 PM | Link to this

JJ got snubbed but Micheal Redd REALLY got snubbed.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By chris

February 2, 2007 04:15 PM | Link to this

I really enjoyed Smokin Aces, if nothing else for the EYE CANDY that is known as Alicia Keys. Common, and Ryan Reynold did great work, for a musician and someone known more for comedy than serious roles. As for the Hawks, I also hope we do not try to force speedy into the lineup, for no reason. TLue and JChill with JJ taking over has worked at the point very well the last five or so games. Childress has looked great, he is all over the place. He can drive, he his hitting his 15-17 footers, and playing really good perimeter defense. I think we can come away with another win tonight!

By Anakin Joe

February 2, 2007 04:15 PM | Link to this

Ando, it helpd that the Raptors GM had the luxury to trade for a more expensive TJ Ford and sign about $11M worth of free agents with Garbajosa, Parker and Jones. He even took on more salary with the bad decision to acquire Nesterovic (another guy who makes Zaza look like Bill Walton). But mostly, the previous GM nailed the ‘03 draft pick and the current GM is a benefactor of that correct decision.

Let’s face it, no team in league history has had to deal with the perfect convergence that has hit the Hawks this season. An incompetent GM. A mostly ineffective head coach. The youngest roster in the NBA. A ridiculous amount of injuries that has not allowed the head coach to have a practice with his top 10 players (until the past 2-3 days I assume). And owners who are powerless to change anything (in terms of the GM, Coach or players) because they can’t afford to buy a clue. When you put all of those things together, its a miracle that this team has won more than 3 games. In fact, all of those factors were true last season, but instead of the rash of injuries, the team was reeling from the death of Jason Collier.

Dammit, I got myself all depressed again. Come on Hawks, put forth a solid effort tonight against the Raptors!

By TonyG

February 2, 2007 04:16 PM | Link to this

take it in stride JJ, by the end of the season, everyone will realize you and the Hawks were overlooked…when we’re in the PLAYOFFS!! We need to gain this 4-game ground now so that we’re in the mix heading into the stretch run. Oh, and whatever you do, dont see BABEL. Long, long, boring movie.

By honest_abe

February 2, 2007 04:47 PM | Link to this

let me concur on babel. if you have a bad case of insomnia go catch babel!! the dumbest and most over hyped movie of the year.

By Dr.Doom

February 2, 2007 05:35 PM | Link to this

Who wants to go see a bunch of thugs play basketball? They should be somewhere else getting an education or spending time with their multiple children from multiple women.

By HB Ando

February 2, 2007 06:38 PM | Link to this

Isn’t it nice to have a token racist, just to remind each of us that no matter how frustrated we are with the Hawks, at least we’re not nasty, ignorant wastes of protoplasm?

Joe, those pick ups, in Toronto, didn’t cost them significantly more than Speedy and Wright cost us. Ford was on a rookie contract, and subsequently has been signed for a fair market price. Jack would have been on his rookie deal here, too, if Billy had had the brains to move up and take him. I know you said several times, last year, that you weren’t sold on Jack as a legitimate starting point guard, in the NBA. Do you still fee that way?

Also, you’re response didn’t address Portland, which didn’t go out and spend money, and is playing better with a backcourt made up of a rookie and a second-year PG. Their second highest paid player, Miles, is out for the year. And they’re centers are mostly Pryzbilla and Magloire (with a little Aldridge on the development side, who I still think we should have sought out in a draft pick move up). Randolph is a legit low-post scorer, but he still doesnt’ play defense. Yet they have a better record in the tougher Western Conference.

Injuries, money, coaching, Billy, ownership, bla bla bla. Excuses. Wrong management. Wrong choices. Wrong direction.

Time for a do over. Keep Johnson, Josh and Josh (yes, I said it), and move everyone else to seek out a legitimate big man and a legitimate point guard (after someone actual takes control over this franchise and has the legal right, and resources, to make such moves).

By Clyde

February 2, 2007 06:51 PM | Link to this

I agree Ando. We need to just throw in the towel and start rebuilding again. This roster is dysfunctional.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By michael m.

February 2, 2007 07:12 PM | Link to this

i saw smoking aces at a screening back in early december and really enjoyed it. i know carnahan was still tinkering with it then, but i don’t think he changed much so i am surprised by all the negative reviews. it’s a fun movie. the last film he made was “narc”, much different but gives you an idea of his integrity as a filmmaker so you realize he is coming from a deeper place than the hack genre directors all over the place. it’s entertaining, playful, with some crazy a* assassins hit manning and womaning each other to death in exciting way. check it out, sekou.

By michael m.

February 2, 2007 07:12 PM | Link to this

i saw smoking aces at a screening back in early december and really enjoyed it. i know carnahan was still tinkering with it then, but i don’t think he changed much so i am surprised by all the negative reviews. it’s a fun movie. the last film he made was “narc”, much different but gives you an idea of his integrity as a filmmaker so you realize he is coming from a deeper place than the hack genre directors all over the place. it’s entertaining, playful, with some crazy a* assassins hit manning and womaning each other to death in exciting way. check it out, sekou.

By michael m.

February 2, 2007 07:21 PM | Link to this

ando, good posts. tone was different, better. and glad to hear you back childress finally. i told you he was a player!

i’m not ready to give up on marvin yet, but if he can help get us a gasol, i do it in a second. but it will be at least a year from now before i lose any real faith. he just needs to learn how to finish around the basket and add to his all around game the way josh smith flourishes. while he will never be that type of blocker, he can be a much better shooter and scorer.

man, if we can add oden to our front line, we are golden.

is alpha dog really good? i was excited to see it though the reviews have been lukewarm, not that that should stop me considering the scalding that smoking aces has unfairly received.

someone help shelden get his confidence back. woodsen needs to add a smile occasionally to his shellhead whipping stick.

By mykhalc

February 2, 2007 07:30 PM | Link to this

ANDO, i asked you about a combined trade (yours and mine) yesterday to get us DOLEAC. LUE/WRIGHT/2nd rounder to MIA for DOLEAC/1st rounder. both teams get some of what they need. what’s your take on it?? a full make over is not needed, IMHO. but i think we gotta get a more servicable big to start with. and i think DOLEAC is an upgrade. and i know a PG is needed but let me here your feedback on how this trade helps or doesn’t help the roster. i listed what i think are the pros to this trade in yesterday’s blog is you wanna rehash.

we ALL know your utter disapproval of BK’s performance. but let’s not blow up a core that might be startin’ to get a little flow to goin’.

By reese

February 2, 2007 08:01 PM | Link to this

Sekou, movie opinions are like player evaluation opinions. Every blogger sees things in a different light.

Some would rather see Robert Deniro. Others like myself would rather see Alicia Keyes.

I went to see smoking aces and a couple had a baby to the right of me and I had a group of high school boys talking through the movie behind me.

But when alicia keys came on screen in her skimpy outfit, there was peace and quiet as all eyes were fixated on her.

I thought that it was a great movie with many sub plots and a lot of shoot em up action.

And yes, there was plenty of eye candy.

By reese

February 2, 2007 08:20 PM | Link to this

Wedgie Evans, I to hoped that JJ would make the All star team. But, I just didn’t think that he was going to make it.

I probably judge him a lot harder than others, but that is because he is our star player.

Yes, it hard to score 40 points, yes its hard to have triple doubles. Yes its hard to play tough on both offensive and defense.

But, I expect all star players to accomplish those feats and play that way at least once.

To tell the truth, I think that Josh Smith has just as much a chance as Joe Johnson to make the all star team.

Josh does the things that fans around the country want to see. Dunks, blocks and push the tempo. Plus, he does the things that opposing coaches don’t want to see. That is somebody who stops their star playing from scoring, someone who out jumps their entire team and dunks on their best defensive players. Someone who at the end of the night has entries in every positive offensive and defensive category.

As Josh and Joe increase their stats in all offensive and defensive categories, this hawks team will be more competitive and in turn hopefully we can see them both in future all star games.

By mykhalc

February 2, 2007 09:12 PM | Link to this

i can’t even see the game and KNOW that SPEEDY’s has already seen the court toooooo much!!!!!

By curious

February 2, 2007 10:01 PM | Link to this

Woodson sitting Josh so long in first &second half was incredible. Not getting JJ the ball in the 4th was also idiotic. I can’t blame 1-15 shooting from your pg on him. Nor can I blame 3 assists from your pgs on him. Something is flawed in your offense when your 4 is the best passer on your team. Why did he not trap & press and try to win the game?

By tyger

February 2, 2007 10:08 PM | Link to this

SPEEDY PLAYS; HAWKS LOSE!

It’s not just the fact, that he goes 1-8 in 15 min. Its that he disrupts everything accomplished since the end of last season. He destroys the improved chemistry, confidence and substitution patterns that were beginning to work.

He is the link to the 3-13 December. In his 11 games missed, the Hawks won over .500 of their games.

Now, with his return they miss the good play of Royal Ivey and Lorenzen Wright. Guys that play defense. More of them and less of Speedy gives them a better chance to win.

Its almost ridiculous, Speedy hasnt been here long enough to command that kind of respect. Face it, he’s damaged goods. His impact is far worse than that of Salim, the other team doesnt even bother to defend him. And triple JJ.

By ray

February 2, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

“Two steps forward, two (I mean one) step back…”

Not surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised. Calderon, Garbajosa, you name it. Call it what you want. And more sorry performance from Pachulia and Wright. Can’t we speed the court thing up?

NICE game by Smoove. I know that Marvin’s not had all the games to play that Josh has, but can he go stat-crazy like Smoove? Smoove’s proven (or proving, depending on how you look at it)and is definitely the athletic defensive helper we need. Too bad he doesn’t have any serious beef playing with him down low. He could be OUR Andre Iguodala. Maybe better, eh? Iggy doesn’t swat shots like Smoove does. But before I get Ando started on that one….Let’s face it, the old phrase goes “better one bird in the hand than two in the bush.” In other words, we know what Smoove can and will do. If you had to choose which one to ship off as part of a package to get a good quality C/PF or PG, would you really give up Josh over Marvin? I mean, you keep both Joshes, one to start, the other to come in like Vinnie “the microwave” Johnson (old Pistons bad boys team of the early 90s).

Mykhalc, I know you’ll disagree with me. Know that I’m not downing Marvin at all. I’m just saying that if one had to make a move now to really help the franchise short and long term, of our most recent swing forwards, it makes the most sense (to me) to let Marvin go. Smoove is too good. And Marvin won’t like being on the bench. And we know they can’t be our starting forwards, at least not without one BEAST of a center, which we don’t have. So it’s logical to keep Chills instead if at all possible. Besides, unlike marvin, he plays the two as well. But until then, we’ve got them all.

By mykhalc

February 2, 2007 10:14 PM | Link to this

i hate to say this but INJURIES make WOODSON a more effective coach. IT LIMITS HIS CHOICES THUS NOT REQUIRIN” HIM TO COACH AS MUCH!!! i could follow the boxscore and see it comin’!!! didn’t even need to see the game to see he was doin’ EXACTLY what i feared. he F’ed with the rotations/PT/chemistry!!!!

By mykhalc

February 2, 2007 10:21 PM | Link to this

BIG RAY, actually i agree with you!! my only exception is that i would like to see them have at least another year together. but IF one had to go today, yep it couldn’t be anybody but MARVIN!! my stance is/has been that i HAVE NOT given up on MW and i hope we can give him the same time to mature as JS has had. but MW has to do more than just score. gotta hit the boards!!NO EXCUSE NOT TOO!!!!

By ray

February 2, 2007 10:22 PM | Link to this

I don’t even know how to judge Woodson at this point. He’ll have something going, like letting the team run. And then right back to this craziness. And that dumb look again.

Orlando, what the fu*# ever. You make less sense than a change machine. You don’t like whining? We hate losing! And we hate losing for stupid reasons. Speaking of stupid…defending Billy and then making the worst analogies I’ve heard in a while… Go back to chasing billy goats under your bridge…

You know what? I have to get Ando’s back on this. I was getting annoyed at his repeatedly long posts of the same stuff over and over regarding Knight, but if dingleberries like this are going to keep bringing this insanity up, I certainly understand why he keeps going off like a fully automatic AK.

By Wedgie Evans

February 2, 2007 10:23 PM | Link to this

I completely agree with mykhalc — giving significant minutes to Speedy Claxton returning from injury really screwed with the chemistry of the team. The defense was bad regardless of who was on the floor, but if they had used Ivey at the point for the minutes that they used Claxton instead, the offense would have probably been much better in the first half. Ivey, for all his shortcomings, realizes that he can’t play offense and defers to other players on the team, while giving 100% effort on defense. Claxton thinks he can take control of the offense with the ball in his hands, and ends up turning it over or throwing up bricks.

Speedy’s shooting is really a disgrace to the game of basketball. It’s one thing if your form is nice and you are just missing a little long every time, things like that can be fixed. But Speedy is all over the place — side of the backboard, too long, too short, airballs, you name it. I knew he wasn’t a great shooter when he came here, but I didn’t think he would be this bad.

Finally, the Raptors basically killed the Hawks in the first half by running back-cuts and having their point guards dribble through the lane and back out, a la Steve Nash. The Hawks have to stay with their man on defense if they are going to have any hope of stopping that kind of offensive scheme. Way too many times today, players lost their man when they ran back-cuts and when Calderon and Ford dribbled it through the lane.

Josh Smith and Joe Johnson played great games — too bad everyone else sucked miserably.

By Wedgie Evans

February 2, 2007 10:29 PM | Link to this

If there is a cause for optimism though, 2 of the Hawks’ next 3 games are against New Jersey, who is currently getting their asses kicked against the same Orlando team that just dropped 2 straight games to the Hawks. Hopefully the Hawks can bounce back from this loss.

By roan st

February 2, 2007 10:49 PM | Link to this

I think mavin is a bust considering his draft position and the fact that we passed on two Point guards that are sure fire future all stars. Marvin is a classic tweener, not big enough to play down low and not quick enough to beat anybody off the dribble. He’s not a great rebounder, defender, or passer either. When I see him waddling down the court it makes me want to throw up knowing we passed on a guy like chris paul. Marvin just doesn’t look athletic enough to me and I’m puzzled whenever someone speaks of his ” great upside”. What great upside? Most likely he will be a guy that will average around 17 or 18 points a game but that will never justify his draft status when we already had good players at his position. He is definently the one of our three sf that I would try to move. J smoove is an impact player because he can help our team in all catagories and he seems to get better every month that goes by. I look for josh to have a big second half just like last season. If I’m the hawks he would be untouchable.

By mykhalc

February 2, 2007 10:59 PM | Link to this

if WOODSON continues to play SPEEDY then i think that is a CLEAR sign to us that mgmt is tankin’ the season!! ‘cause at this point the players KNOW what’s workin’, who’s workin’, and when things are not!!! and they KNOW SPEEDY CANNOT bring it!! they have got to be MORE P$SSED than me about SPEEDY’s PT tonite!! the lineup that works is not even guesswork at this point. it is JC, JS, JJ, MW, ZAZA (comin’ off the bench). at least ZAZA does rebound when he comes in, as oppose to WHATEVER WRIGHT is doin’!!! and JC had more assists than LUE and SPEEDY COMBINED!!! i’m seein’ all this with ONLY havin’ been able to see ONE game this year!!!

it’s this kinda SH$T that puts me in ANDRO mode!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if WOODSON is gonna play SPEEDY AT ALL then i’m callin’ AGAIN for the youngest startin’ lineup in the league!! gimme JC, JJ, JS, MW, SJONES!!! if we are gonna lose and tank the season then at least gimme some hilites to look at that SJONES will bring with his athleticism!!!

MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!STUPIDITY!!!!!!

By Volman

February 2, 2007 11:51 PM | Link to this

I really was excited to have Speedy here at the beginning of the season… but now that I’ve seen him (or what I HAVEN’T seen of him) I want him out.

Get Speedy out.. heck, let J-Chill run point for the rest of the season. I don’t care! No more Speedy

By volman

February 2, 2007 11:54 PM | Link to this

Ship out Speedy, L-Wright, Marvin, and Salim to get a GOOD POINT GUARD and a GOOD CENTER. What are the chances of that?

By curious

February 2, 2007 11:55 PM | Link to this

When does Zaza rebound? The only rebounds he gets are his own misses. Roan St is right. Marvin is a tweener. Also, he is Al Harrington. If he is not scoring he brings nothing to the game. He is not an effective passer, he does not rebound and is too slow to guard a three and not strong enough to guard a 4. I like Marvin but watching his game he reminds me of Al.

By Wedgie Evans

February 3, 2007 04:37 AM | Link to this

The only difference between Marvin and Al is that Al thinks he’s a superstar, whereas Marvin realizes he’s a role player and defers to Joe Johnson and Josh Smith accordingly.

Also, Al actually has a post game, whereas Marvin basically stands a foot inside the 3-point line and throws up jumpers all day long.

By JB

February 3, 2007 08:23 AM | Link to this

After watching last night’s game against the Raptors I know exactly why Joe Johnson didn’t make the All Star team. In fact, it’s the same reason as to why the Hawks will have a hard time getting to 30 to 35 wins this year. The Hawks (and specifically JJ) lack that Killer instinct!

At the end of the 3rd quarter the Hawks were just killing them(or more accurately put, JJ was killing them). The Hawks pulled to within 12 at the end of the quarter. They got to the 4th quarter and Joe and the gang worked the Raptors down to 7 points and then… the Hawks stopped going to JJ! What the…?! This is where Joe should have been DEMANDING the ball!!! He and everyone in the building knew he was hot! Everything should have been run through him. I find it hard to believe that Woody would have been calling plays for other players.

That’s the reason why they are having a hard time. Jordan would have demanded the ball. But, before all you fantasy geeks get started, it wasn’t just his “Great Airness”. Reggie Miller was another one that, when he was hot, he demanded the ball, no, he COMMANDED his teammates to give him the ball. Whatever he put up went in. Of course, Dominique Wilkins was the same way. When we needed to score and when he was feeling it (and sometimes even when he wasn’t) he would demand to get the ball. Another, of more recent history, was Steve Smith. I remember a game when the Hawks were down 16 or 17 points in the 4th quarter and he and Mookie Blalock brought them all the way back and the Hawks won the game. Smitty got so hot and he worked the team inside and outside and the team fed off of him. They ran every play through him and Mookie just spotted up in case Smitty was triple teamed (he even beat the double teams that night).

JJ has GOT TO DEMAND the ball. They can’t work through their plays and try to swing the ball to him. They’ve got to get the ball in his hands early, particularly when he’s having that kind of night!

That is what often separates the great players from the good players. Right now JJ is good, very good, but he has the potential to be great. But he’s got to see it in himself, first.

By gb

February 3, 2007 09:13 AM | Link to this

volman if you had a good center and a good point guard, would you trade them for the 4 players you named?

By J. Shuttlesworth

February 3, 2007 10:51 AM | Link to this

So the Hawks got their $10mil worth of point guards back on the floor (go check how many other teams pay pg’s that much, and you’ll only find teams with all-stars), and what do they do? 32 minutes, 2-15 from the floor, 4pts, 3 assists.

I remember BK talking about how he didn’t think PG’s were that important. However, the Hawks are now paying 10mil+ and giving up 4 roster spots to little guys, and none of them bring that much to the table.

By rob

February 3, 2007 11:49 AM | Link to this

Speedy, Speedy, Speedy…I couldn’t figure out what was costing us more, his abundance of playing time or JS’s lack of it! Both blew my mind, but not half as much as when the same lineup that was letting the game get away from them in the first quarter showed up in tact to start the second quarter. I wish they would play Richardson instead, I mean what do you have to lose, except the game when speedy plays!

By Hock

February 3, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

After finally having a winning month, would anyone like to go out on a limb and identify the game or two in February that teh Hawks will win? O for February looks like a probability.

By St. Bernard

February 3, 2007 12:42 PM | Link to this

What would we be willing to give up for Gasol? Marvin and Zaza or Salim? And how much would one of those pg’s in Boston cost us? Speedy and Sheldon? Spend the money on Gasol…whatever it takes. Get a young pg, Telfair, Rondo, Allen, or West from Boston cheaper. They have to be willing to part with one of them and those guys can’t be that expensive. Then, we pick another big guy to develop in the draft or pick a ready to go pg like Steele from Alabama in the draft.

I don’t want to hear about financial problems anymore… this is ridiculous!

By Clyde

February 3, 2007 01:06 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

THE SAME OLE THING NIGHT END AND NIGHT OUT. WHEN WILL WOODY REALIZE HIS COACHING STYLE JUST AINT WORKING?

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By HB Ando

February 3, 2007 01:12 PM | Link to this

GB, that’s the point, man. Folks here, myself included, have to consider how the other team would perceive these trade ideas we like to throw out. We suck, so offering players who contribute to our badness, in an attempt to obtain guys who could make a clear difference, just isn’t happening.

Myc, sorry I didn’t respond earlier. I don’t think Miami would make that trade, and I don’t think Doleac’s game helps much here. He is a face-up shooter. We need low post scoring and shot blocking (still), and that’s not Doleac’s game. Plus, with Shaq and Mourning both unreliable, from a health standpoint, I think they view Doleac, correctly, as a sound insurance policy. They could use Lue. And if they believe they still have a run in them for the title this year, they can’t value what would be a late first rounder too much. I think Lue and our second gets their first. And I’d make that deal.

Look, we just got punked by a two-player team, with one of the two, Ford playing only 17 minutes (and ripping our PG’s for 10 dimes). Speedy was thoroughly outplayed by a back up, in Calderon. Don’t tell me about rust, because if he’s healthy enough to be on the court, he should be ready to compete. He wasn’t. The Raps are a collection of cast-offs, save for Bosh and Ford. All this talk about how close the Hawks are to breaking out is nonsense. The lowly Raps are 7 games up on us, in the win column.

Face the facts, the Hawks are .333 ball club. They’ll win one, lose two, over the course of the season. We are not competitive for the 8th seed (I’ll ask again, who, standing between us and that slot, are we better than? No one has attempted to answer that question the last several times I’ve asked it).

It should be abundantly clear that a handful of talented wing players is not a recipe for winning in the NBA. Billy vision was flawed from the get go. And to folks who say they don’t want to give up on Marvin, I don’t think the idea of trading him has any thing to do with giving up on him. In fact, I think it’s ongoing high expectations for what he will become that gets us the value we need if we package him. He should be a tremendous player. But it seems we’ve got the 2 and 3 locked down, with Johnson, Smith and Childress, so we have to use the only other viable asset we have, Marvin, to go get the answer to either the 1 or 5. I’m afraid Speedy’s contract is going to be an albatross.

I think back to last year, when I (and others) were calling for us to seek out talented and emerging PG’s, like Mo Williams, Calderon, Jack, even Watson. All low-priced and seemingly acquirable. All of these names have emerged as legitimate solutions for their teams. Where was the research into Speedy’s knee situation, prior to the contract? It’s not like he doesn’t have a well-documented history of breaking down. I was OK with the decision at the time, because I felt like getting Speedy was better than continuing to ignore the obvious hole there. Turns out that was wishful thinking. 5 years and $28 million for a guy who can’t shoot and can’t stay on the court.

You have to continue to wonder when JJ asks out. And, to be honest, with the reasonable talent we have at the wing position, and the fact that 2’s are easier to find than 5’s, at some point you have to consider whether the reality that we’re really pretty close to a do-over on the rebuild that wasn’t, doesn’t call for consideration that Johnson is our best bargaining chip.

I’m not saying it’s the best plan, but I don’t think you can say never to the possibility that he’s not a Hawk for the full length of his contract. On a team this bad, no one can be viewed as untouchable. If we can’t win, consistently, with him, then this team has to do whatever is necessary to construct a roster capable of that goal. Winning. Consistently.

How long has it been since we’ve seen a Hawks team do that?

Man, we REALLY need to keep that pick. I just don’t see another way to get right, in the next several years, given all the other negative factors working against us, without it.

By roan st

February 3, 2007 01:39 PM | Link to this

I hope belkin wins and that arrogant incompetent jackass of a gm is fired. Arguments begin in march and I will be pulling for steve belkin. I think he is a smart enough business man that he will sell the team if he doesn’t have the funds to keep the hawks competetive.

Ando, you still seem to think marvin can become a great player. What is it about his game that you see that I obviously don’t?

Billy knight will never package marvin in a deal because that would be an admission on his part that he screwed up. That ignorant and arrogant prick will watch this franchise go down the drain before he would admit he made a mistake. We are stuck with this flawed roster for the forseeable future.

By Jay

February 3, 2007 02:34 PM | Link to this

I dont know if I would blame the loss completely on speedy. 1-8 shooting sure didnt help but to me it looked like the Raptor’s bigs just destroyed the Hawks. Bosh can drive and dribble exceptionally well for someone that is 6-11. Bargnani is a nightmare because he can shoot deep, pulling out our crap centers from the basket, leaving Bosh against someone he is taller than.

Plus its not like Lue is 100%. Our pg’s arent that great to begin with, when both of them are hurt its a recipe for diaster. I mean, T.J. Ford has 10 assists in 17 minutes!

I hope that maybe we can buy out Speedy and sign a true starting point guard or center.

By HB Ando

February 3, 2007 03:16 PM | Link to this

Roan, I don’t believe Marvin will become great. I believe he will be good. And I think there are folks around the league enamored enough with his upside that he could be packaged for a legitimate, young big. If I thought he was going to be great, I wouldn’t have chosen him, over Smith, as the guy to look to trade, and I wouldn’t have spent the last 2 years, since BEFORE he was drafted, screaming about how we should have taken Chris Paul. Everyone here knows, with Sekou having backed me up, that I’m one of the minority that thought Paul was the pick BEFORE Knight chose Marvin. I always thought that what Marvin looked to develop into looked a lot like what Al Harrington was already doing when Marvin got here.

If Marvin matches Al’s abilities, he’s a good, not great, NBA player. But I have no doubt that there are some GM’s around the league who would love to trade for him. And what Josh Smith does on the floor is simply to unique to replace, even if Marvin has a better stroke. As we feared this summer, documented at length, neither of them has shown the ability or interest to become a legitimate power forward. That means they play the same position.

I’d offer Marvin, Salim/Lue/Speedy and Indy’s pick to Memphis, for Gasol. Lue if they’d rather have him than Salim, since they’re point guards are Chucky and Damon. Damn sure give them Speedy if they prefer. Don’t really think they’d take it, but Marvin is pretty highly thought of around the league, so you never know unless you ask…..

You have to know that if this team had Gasol, Johnson and Smith, THAT’S a core with potential, especially in the weak Eastern Conference.

But I simply hold zero expectations that such a deal is the least bit likely, whether that due to legal/financial constraints or Billy’s glaring ineptitude, or a combination of both.

By mykhalc

February 3, 2007 04:58 PM | Link to this

ANDO, like most of us believe, nothin’ will get done with the current ownership/mgmt that’s in place right now. HOWEVER, if i had to hold out any hope it would be with GASOL. that’s was BK’s coup on the HAWKS back with MEM. so if he is inclined to go after anybody i’d put my money on him goin’ after GASOL. but i’d have to use your money!!LOL

and you’re right about our DOLEAC scenario, in that he doesn’t bring EXACTLY what’s needed. but he does upgrade the 5. he’s a better shooter and rebounder than WRIGHT tho the blocks is a wash. but as a HAWKS fans i’ll take ANY improvement. but like you said, MIA ain’t goin’for it. at this point, we are treatin’ ourselves to nothin’ more than ‘b’ball mind exercises’.

By Anakin Joe

February 3, 2007 07:10 PM | Link to this

Ando, I compared Jack to Eric Snow and nothing has changed my opinion. A decent starting PG. Nothing to write home about (as my mother used to say). I actually drank the Kool-Aid that said that we would be a running team and I do not think that Jack would excel in that offensive set. If we are going to remain a half-court team, then Jack would be fine. But still, nothing but average.

Portland has done a very nice job of building for the future. If they deal Randolph soon, that would be the icing on the cake as his value will not likely be higher. You won’t get me to say that no other team builds better than the Hawks nor the inverse that the Hawks have done it the one right way. I just don’t believe that 99% of BK’s moves have been bad. And I truly beieve that with some quality coaching, his team would look much better. And your .333 quote is the exaggeration of the early year, considering the team is .500 over the past 32 calendar.

One of the biggest areas is this ridiculous “swagger” the team tries to have. You can tell in the first 4 minutes of the game if this team has a chnce to win. When they come out like the other team is abot to lie down and die, they lose. When they play with some urgency, they typically have a decent shot at winning. Sorry, that ain’t nothing but youth, coaching and leadership.

By mavid

February 3, 2007 07:25 PM | Link to this

so i went to a sports bar here in vancouver, BC and watched the game on “Raptors TV”

gotta say, it seemed like we were trying to run more… maybe woodson saw something he liked in the win over golden state

also, for a while with this game, it wasnt that we were playing THAT bad, but rather, toronto was hitting EVERYTHING (they are definately a different team then earlier this year)

3rd quarter was a good quarter for us. not much else was.

Lue’s stat-line doesnt even begin to show how bad he was. dude was missing WIDE OPEN shots, and then stopped taking shots when he was wide open

speedy was horrible too

we still cant rebound consistently, and that kills us

also, someone said it before, and i completely agree: we take too many 15-20 foot shots. joe drives. smoove is beginning to drive more (which is nice), but not it just isnt part of what we do, and it needs to be.

as much as i like our core of jj, chill, marvin and smoove, this team won’t do anything until we get a legit big man… its that simple. we need a trade asap

By HB Ando

February 3, 2007 07:44 PM | Link to this

Joe, I think that bad match ups, a direct result of Billy’s failings in building a balanced roster, are just as impactful, if not more, than the issues you point to. But our divergent perspectives are nothing new.

BTW, Jack is a tremendously better jump shooter than Snow. He’s accurate and usually good for a 3 per game. In fact, Jack has 30 3’s, in 45 games, this season, while Snow has 55 for his career, in 789 games (21% accuracy). Snow never had his range. If an apt description of Jack, in only his second year, is Snow with a jump shot, and 3-point range, I think I’d take that here in Atlanta. I do agree that he’s a better fit for a half-court design, a primary reason the Blazers jettisoned Telfair. But I don’t think they’re going to dump Randolph. They’ve made a decision to build around his low-post scoring, and he continues to put up 25 and 10 nightly. His lack of defense requires them to maintain a strong defensive center behind him. Our Hawks need that too, something that Billy has simply failed to address (though folks continue to hope that Jones can develop into that presence, which, if realistic, will take much longer than you’ve got the patience for).

I will say this about Jack, his play has been strong enough that the Blazers felt comfortable trading the increasingly valued Steve Blake (a player I believe you, if not others, felt would have been a good choice here). I’ll add Blake’s name to the list of Mo Williams, etc., as the numerous PG’s Billy failed to seek out, all of whom appear clearly superior to our $28 million bust, Not-So-Speedy.

Truth is that we’re not as good as Portland or Toronto. If I told you that would be true, before the season started, would you have been satisfied with the Hawks progress, so far this year? Of course I did predict the Blazers would have a better record, and was told, for the umpteenth time, that I was crazy. Call me crazy. And right.

By mykhalc

February 3, 2007 07:49 PM | Link to this

check out SEKOU’s latest articles. definitely get feel WOODSON and JJ are talkin’ directly to 2 of the topics we’re hittin’ on here in the blog. either they are readin’ or SS is hittin’ ‘em up with our discussions. either way, nice job SEKOU.

and it might just be my take on things, but i think JJ is sayin’ we got this without LUE or SPEEDY!!??!!

and there is nothin’ for WOODSON to figure out about his rotations!! just take LUE and SPEEDY out of ‘em!!! IT’S THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!

By HB Ando

February 3, 2007 07:53 PM | Link to this

Durant watch:

Loss to K-State, young Kevin had 32 points, 9 boards and five blocks, on 13-21 from the floor.

Can you imagine how good he will be when he fills out?

Hawks are in a five-team, or so, battle for the 4th worst record in the NBA. They need to flop into the top-3, where Boston (does anyone else get the feeling that they’re in no hurry to bring Paul Pierce back?) and Memphis, seem committed to seeking a top-2 pick. Philly is actually trying to compete and should come back to the pack which Atlanta has found itself positioned with.

Hawks need to find a way to lose, or find a way to win, but hovering in the 4-7 range has to have Phoenix salivating (as if looking like the favorite for the title isn’t enough of an adrenaline rush).

I said, two summers ago, being in this very position was the worst possible scenario. Yet here we are. It all seemed so avoidable. What a sorry state of affairs. I really have to adopt a new team. I guess I’ll follow whatever team we become when we’re moved to Vegas. I hope Sekou is the beat writer for the Las Vegas Nut Flush!

By mykhalc

February 3, 2007 08:04 PM | Link to this

ok…maybe my last word of the day on these 2 cats (maybe)…but what makes it sooooooo hard for WOODSON to sit LUE and SPEEDY?????? they bring NOTHIN’ to the team bein’ injured!!! NOTHIN’ well, last nite they helped bring a ‘L’!!! shut ‘em down WOODSON!!!

By mavid

February 3, 2007 08:30 PM | Link to this

http://hoopshype.com/columns/selections_narducci.html

at least one article agrees JJ got snubbed

and shaq in the game just isnt right

By Kappy

February 4, 2007 10:47 AM | Link to this

OK, a couple of thoughts:

First, we play today at noon. Potential win on the road against the nets.

Second, forcing Speedy on Friday was a BAD decision. He may have been physically ready to play, but he wasn’t mentally. He made so many mistakes, I don’t know what to say.

Third, as I assess the roster, Speedy and Zaza are not NBA starters. They wouldnt start for any other team. They need to come off the bench(which makes speedy an overpaid backup, nice). As i look at the lineup, we’re solid in the 2-4 positions. That group can be as competitive as any in the league. And I include power forward in that mix because I think Jsmoove and Shelden would do fine with a dominant big man to compliment their skills.

I rarely do it, but I’m agreeing with ANDO here. It appears the only way this team is going to improve is through the draft. We lack the strong ownership to make big trades or make free agent signings any bigger than speedy and lo. We have to keep this draft pick. Which upsets me, because I dont want to cheer against this team because I think they’re making tremendous strides.

How about this? JSmoove on the Olympic team! You’re telling me that team couldnt use an athletic 3/4 who can dominate the paint and off-the-ball defense? Outside of a pure outside shooter, I think this is exactly what team USA needs.

By Kappy

February 4, 2007 10:50 AM | Link to this

Also, I dont think anyones ever mentioned it, but are BK and Woody even on the same page? We don’t want to run, we want to score under 100 points a la Pistons, yet we have an undersized inside, and our point guards are undersized and continually get burned in half-court sets. I dont get it. Do these guys even get along? Sekou? Any feedback on BK and Woody’s relationship?

By HB Ando

February 4, 2007 11:37 AM | Link to this

I hope Sekou has no jealousy issues with my appreciation of Bill Simmons (you’re still my Fav, SS), but this guy just hits the nail on the head, and, unlike Sekou, he can say whatever he wants, because he doesn’t have to protect the feelings of the local team he covers.

If you are engaged by anything related to the idea of tanking, or to the value of having your bad franchise get a shot at Oden or Durant, you must read the following:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070202_magazine&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab4pos2

There simply cannot be a better representation of how I feel about the Hawks keeping that pick……..

By HB Ando

February 4, 2007 11:44 AM | Link to this

Jeesh, even Simmons knows the Hawks are cursed:

“The worst NBA team has a 25 percent chance to get the first pick (unless it’s Atlanta, which is banned from winning the lottery by a secret clause in the bargaining agreement), and about a 50-50 chance for a top-two pick.”

What collective insanity must we, the very few Hawks’ blog regulars, suffer from, to torture ourselves, daily, with discussions on how this franchise will rise, like a Phoenix (damn, there’s that word again), from the ashes. Apparently, no one told us that perpetual failure is the birthright of the Hawks, as we cluelessly ponder path-altering events which will never transpire.

Move this team to Las Vegas, so the good, basketball-loving folks of this blog can get some closure. Where’s my medication?

By Clyde

February 4, 2007 11:58 AM | Link to this

Ando it sounds to me you need a FIRE BILLY AND WOODY t-shirt.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By HB Ando

February 4, 2007 12:10 PM | Link to this

Joe, just saw Woody’s record as Hawks’ coach, at the opening of the Nets game. He’s at .268, so I think referring to this franchise a a .333 club was pretty magnanimous of me……..

By HB Ando

February 4, 2007 12:11 PM | Link to this

Clyde, can I get a billboard?

By doc

February 4, 2007 01:30 PM | Link to this

ando, good article. i read that stat the other day where the best odds for the worst team was just one in four and i almost sent it on to you. it shows how little validity there is for being “hopeful” that the team loses enough games to qualify for a top three slot. it seems we could even finish with the worst record and end up drawing the number four lottery pick; i then assume we would then give it over to the suns. is that right? i hate to think that could happen but maybe someone knows how it would work out. maybe sekou could give us info on that scenario. the article that i read was commenting on how pitiful it was for ainge to be holding back pierce possibly so he could be “hopeful” of getting the opportunity for oden or durant presuming they are considered the top two picks by the experts.

still think the best way is to get these guys to learn how to win, as an athelete yourself you know that is how it is done, and let things fall the way it will for the pick to go to the suns. i think we may be out of the running as we get healthy and learn to play as a team. ando now that you see the true odds maybe you will drop your ainge impression of hoping for the top three and start pulling for these guys to get healthy and start winning. unfortunately that is pulling against your own mighty voice of doom so it might take eating humble pie. that is where you have possibly painted yourself dude.

not that speedy is the same player as paul, it is not to be unexpected that he had such a tough adjustment back to playing. paul played miserable in his first game back as he watched their winning streak come to an end and commented on his own disappointment in himself. he bounced back in his second game back. hopefully speedy can get back to where we thought he could be for this team this year.

oh dear, my suns are slumping having lost two of three.

By HB Ando

February 4, 2007 02:27 PM | Link to this

Doc, it’s the pick slot that we end up with, not our record. So you are correct that the team with the worst record can end up with the fourth pick (no worse). Actually, nothing about that article led me to backing off. My point, in bringing the article to the blog, was exactly what Simmons is hoping for for his Celtics. Seems to me he’s simply acknowledging the reasonableness in being a fan of a team, and simultaneously rooting for them to lose, despite what otherwise seems incongruous. In fact, Simmons specifically poo-poo’d the notion that it was more important for a young, flawed roster to “learn how to win” than it was to have a shot a potential superstar.

When you’re this bad, incremental improvements, organic as Joe calls it, gets you a couple of wins a year. I’m still focused on building a championship contender. This isn’t the path to the big time, it’s a slow crawl to mediocrity.

I’ve been watching this game against NJ, and I see nothing that supports that all this team needs is to learn how to win. Their lack of viable talent in the post is a fatal flaw. Period. And, having gone into great detail on why, over the last few weeks, the only realistic way we can address that weakness, is to keep the pick.
Again, I’m not expecting a concerted effort to lose, sufficient to keep the pick. Merely pointing out that it’s the best thing that could happen to this team, given all the other factors inhibiting our ability to obtain a franchise big in any other fashion.

For all the folks who’ve talked about how Roy (and yes, doc, I know you were Roy’s biggest supporter, so I’m not addressing you with this point) wouldn’t have been a better pick than Shelden The Back Up, because we didn’t need a big guard, can anybody honestly say that Atlanta wouldn’t be a player, in the trade market, for a legitimate big, like Gasol, if we we offering up Marvin and Roy for such a big? Marvin, Roy and Indy’s pick could make a serious push for Gasol. Throw in Salim for Chucky Atkins, and you’re starting lineup is now: Chucky, Johnson, Smith, Gasol and Wright (or move Gasol to center, and play Childress). Or maybe you keep starting Speedy (every other day, when he’s healthy), and bring Chucky off the bench for instant offense (which he’s been providing like crazy for Memphis).

Now that it’s clear that my initial prediction that Shelden’s role would be negligible as a result of the obvious need to play Marvin and Josh together (made this summer), he has limited value to the rotation, and virtually no trade value, relative to the other players we could have taken with that pick. Since it was obvious this would be the scenario, as early as right before the draft, why Shelden? Why?

I just can’t agree that all this team needs is to learn to win. It’s still fatally imbalanced. And only a top-3 pick gives us the realistic opportunity to obtain a potential franchise big man. The odds of missing out on the pick, based on the way the balls drop, or having such a player fail to develop, are not lost on me. They are simply the only viable CHANCE we have, at least until ownership changes hands and a new GM is brought in.

By HB Ando

February 4, 2007 02:30 PM | Link to this

Did anyone see the final play of regulation? The Nets ran a double at Joe, leaving our POINT GUARD unguarded! If that doesn’t underscore one of the primary flaws on this team, nothing does.

As overtime begins, I predict another heartbreaking loss for the young Hawks. Up by 4 with 40 seconds. How many times has this same scenario played itself out this season?

By HB Ando

February 4, 2007 02:36 PM | Link to this

Geez, Joe Johnson got jobbed. Can anyone imagine Rip Hamilton taking over a game like this. Win or lose, Johnson is something to watch.

This has been a great game. They have to win games like this……

By HB Ando

February 4, 2007 02:50 PM | Link to this

One minute left in OT:

Points in the Paint- NJ 56 ATL 28

This is against a team that, even before they lost Krstic, was in desperate need of inside help. This is against Mikke Moore, a career journeyman that Billy Knight WAIVED (along with Doleac and Pryzbilla) the year we traded away Walker. Moore has 13 points, 7 boards, 3 dimes and a block. That’s the type of cheap big man help Billy could have gotten in the off-season, instead of wasting a pick on Shelden, a first-round back up.

Nice shot T Lue! But win or lose, the problems with Billy’s roster continue to be glaringly obvious, and will continue to render this team a sub-.500 club for the remainder of the season.

Where is Marvin on the boards? Another 4 board night? Looking more like a poor man’s Al Harrington every night. Other than a really pretty outside stroke, I’m not seeing much from the young man right now.

Up 3 with 9 seconds! One stand and it’s a W! I still can’t believe the disparity in points in the paint.

That’s why Vince Carter is an all-star. 26 footer with a hand in his face.

T LUUUUUUUEEEEEEEE! Wow! What a great game!!!!!!!! DAMN!

Man am I ready to have a consistent, good team in Atlanta again! I’m as tired as anybody of my negativity. Please, Hawks, Spirit, anybody, give me a reason to believe again….

By Kappy

February 4, 2007 02:51 PM | Link to this

ANDO WRONG AGAIN!!!!

WHAT A GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By infamouskrs

February 4, 2007 03:04 PM | Link to this

eXCEllent 3rd by Joe….not to mention, Josh “the REAL Landlord” puttin’ in some serious work (3ptr late in the 4th and 6 straight in OT)…add in the 10 boards. GREAT WIN!

By doc

February 4, 2007 03:04 PM | Link to this

thanks for your prediction ando. just as i read it lue threw it down. timely again.

hawks win it in a fun game to watch where the hawks had to overcome themselves, with josh missing three’s, speedy missing lay ups, and referees doing there best to help the nets along as they ignore josh’s athleticism to make calls against him twice and let carter maim speedy with no call.

need to learn now to win; simmons isnt the end all answer or expert but very entertaining. he is a fan and commentator not making a living by having to act on his knowledge and then be judged. he is a fan who hopes that fantanking will bring success.

yes ando we do need a post player but we need the money to go and get him or them like the bulls did, throwing games doesnt do it if you want to win now and build on a known entity like the lakers did with shaq and a guy named alcinder that won one in milwaukee before he got to hollywood. speaking of getting jobbed didnt the big boy in the chicago uni get jobbed a bit in being left off the star team? speaking if no respect.

maybe there will be a milsaps type big available at the indiana pick since the draft is so deep. that is being hopeful without fantanking and betting against the home team. now lets bring the negative to the pacers.

By mykhalc

February 4, 2007 03:06 PM | Link to this

well, this ‘unable to view’ HAWKS fan wishes for one thing right now…another double digit rebounder to go along with JS!! i can only imagine how that one ingredient would help stabilize this team!! ANDO, DOC, RAY, JOE, etc of the regulars, if you’ve got the time i would luv and appreciate a breakdown of the game. what’s your take in what’s being seen in tryin’ to get SPEEDY and LUE back into the lineup??? what’s up with SALIM?? no minutes for SJONES??anythin’ you cats feel like sharin’!!

ANDO, funny comment on your own negativity!LOL

GOOD WIN HAWKS!! WAY TO HANG IN THERE!!

By A Thinking Fan

February 4, 2007 03:23 PM | Link to this

Looks like MW was coaching his team today… Good Win! Go Hawks!!!

By infamouskrs

February 4, 2007 03:23 PM | Link to this

gotta admit…i was alittle worried when we had the 7 point lead with 3 minutes to go in regulation! nice to see 14 assists outta JJ and Claxton….

Clyde, can you come up with some shirts that say “BOYCOTT the ALL-STAR GAME”….number 2 is simply amazing!

By Clyde

February 4, 2007 03:39 PM | Link to this

How bout Marcus Williams having 18 points in 26 minutes of the bench for New Jersey. Speedy only had 2 points in 28 minutes. Looks like the rookie out played the ole vet.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By roan st

February 4, 2007 03:42 PM | Link to this

Ando, you plucked a thought right out of my head. Just before game time I was thinking how much of a great trade assest roy would have been had we selected him over shelden. Even if roy is going to be a carbon copy of jj he would have been a fabulous trade piece to offer up. In fact I think had we drafted roy and could offer up marvin and roy for gasol we would have been at the top of memphis speed dial. Instead we have an undersized power forward that nobody in the league would even yawn at the thought of trading for.

I think us poor hawks fans are in basketball purgatory for the forseeable future. Todays win was a bad one for me since I am now in full fantanking mode. I have to completely agree with ando that our only hope for a glimmer of sunshine is to have a legitimate chance at oden or durant. Maybe if we can lose enough to have a chance the basketball gods will have mercy and we can find our way into one of the top two spots. Otherwise it will be more of the same hopelessness going forward.

Did everyone see that block jsmoove made on vince carter? WOW! I know they called a foul for incidental contact but he pinned that baby clean on the backboard after vince had intially got past him. Is that kid an incredible athelete or what?

By doc

February 4, 2007 03:59 PM | Link to this

jj was spectacular today myk. he looks like he is back into the groove. smash played well and made some unbelievable defensive plays only to be negated by the refs (un)peerless eyes. chills was solid. post weak but fortunately not much of rens today. lue is hobbling but shows his worth and speedy shaky with the ball in his hands if he has a shot. i can only hope he gets his stroke back and dont know if it is his hand injury or his knees that are throwing him off. hate to use excuses but little things can work against your mechanics in a big way. marvin had some good looks and made the shots but i agree with ando he needs to find a way to make a difference in the piant for bounds and physical presence. i think he is coming along as expected for a guy with what 50 to 75 quality games behind him. defense was okay as carter wanted to go off and they wouldnt let him. rolltide and sekou can probably stand proud as m. williams had a strong game as the nets tried to run a two point guard arrangement at the depleted guards of the hawks. it worked fairly well fror williams but not enough to change the game; it may have taken the ball out of carter’s hands though which works to our advantage and suggests the nets were trying to adjust to the hawks or to negate somehting the hawks were doing on defense.

By doc

February 4, 2007 04:05 PM | Link to this

well i see while i was posting roll tide remarked on his guy m.w. heh heh. i thing maruus was doing more of the shooting guard thing than the point roll tide but marvin made the best for his time in the game. he was drafted about right though, where he was picked.

before we trash sheldon too much remember somehow he was starting games in nov when the hawks had a respectable record out of the blocks, he must have been doing something right. now, i doooo like roy though.

By mykhalc

February 4, 2007 04:22 PM | Link to this

DOC, thanks for the recap bro. seems like JJ’s game and JS’s defensive presence was REALLY somethin’ today!! question and it might not be a fair one but…is the team better served with JC gettin’ the additional PT at PG or workin’ LUE and SPEEDY back into the lineup?? i think most know i’m for JC bein’ on the court as much as possible with JJ, JS, and MW. but i know that my analysis is probably short-sighted since i don’t see the games. however, i did notice JC had the second most minutes behind JJ’s. what’s the most noticeable differences in play between these 2 lineups….JC, JJ, JS, MW, LW vs. LUE, JJ, JS, MW, LW???????

By HB Ando

February 4, 2007 04:41 PM | Link to this

Kappy, wrong again? What’s that, 3 times in two years? LOL

Doc, Shelden only started because Marvin was hurt. And then Josh got hurt. Valid point remains that for a guy who can only play PF, there was never a prospective starting slot for him here. Not with a commitment to Marvin and Josh as bookend forwards. With that obviously the plan, the only way to go with that pick was to develop a center to back them, or draft the best possible asset, for future options. Every night, journeymen like Mikki Moore provide our opposition with more production than Shelden. Because of Billy’s indefensible decision to overvalue him, Shelden will unfairly carry around the label of bust. But he should never have been put in that position. Billy is a moron.

Net: Wasted Draft Pick at #5.

By doc

February 4, 2007 04:50 PM | Link to this

my guess is that is one of the reasons that marcus williams was on the court was to counter any attempt at the hawks going big at the guard position. cant remember how the hawks tried to match up with williams in there except that was when speedy and lue were in there. dont think that chills was run at the guard posisiton with williams in there, probably too quick is my guess.

speedy has to deliver for this team to do well down the stretch and determine what other needs there are for this team. is he the answer? dont know, but he does defend pretty well with some good steals and blocks, nasty hands, and he did get 7 assists to go with jj’s 8 which i could take every night.

jj in the game changes what and how a point is evaluated the same as the point for the lakers and the heat. there was one beautiful play by jj where he just called off speedy, took all the bumps that the big guy kidd could get away with, cross overed through his legs and took a double team towards the baseline and pulled up short and buried a 10 footer. no point guard necessary there but he also got some good looks from speedy off the ball as well which he buried. again, i hope jj has his stroke back, that was part of the reason for the december swoon, he went cold.

By doc

February 4, 2007 05:02 PM | Link to this

ando, my point is the team didnt fall apart with him in there and had their probs when he went down along with josh and a few others. it was credible for a rookie no matter where he was picked. he wont be an all timer five pick but how many really do live up to where they were picked? that is why very few bulid through the draft, only those that dont have the money or dont want to spend it. i think the bulls got trapped into that game because of krause’s ego that got in the way as he wanted to prove to everyone he could do it with phil or jordan.

follow he money, not the draft picks ando. only the infrequent game changer comes out and makes a difference and luck is required to get it not fantanking. it is fun to fantasize, i guess. look at the porn industry as an example of how well fantasy works, a lot of people seem to get stuck there or a blog with us. heh heh

By mavid

February 4, 2007 05:17 PM | Link to this

thinking of the possibility of having roy and millsap instead of shelden and solomon makes me sick to my stomach

the funny thing is, if we had roy and millsap, we prolly wouldnt even NEED to trade for gasol so bad

great win today!

now all we have to do is hope that maybe someone gets slightly injured around all-star time, and JJ gets his rightful spot

By mavid

February 4, 2007 05:49 PM | Link to this

see, the reason why shelden is such a bad pick is this:

with the j-chill and marvin picks, while there were better picks at that draft position (paul, iguoduala, deng, etc), at least we got good, solid players out of it

with the shelden pick, we didnt just not pick the best player we could have, we picked someone who just flat-out isnt that good. he was a secound round talen in my opinion

ando’s right, we couldve signed someone to do what he does for less than what his rookie contract pays

By roan st

February 4, 2007 08:35 PM | Link to this

I can’t figure out why the grizzlies are so bad even with gasol back in the lineup. Their team on paper looks deep and well balanced.

center- pau gasol 20ppg 9rpg

pf- warrick 12.5ppg 4 rpg roberts- 6.3ppg 5.6rpg johnson- 6ppg 4rpg swift- 10ppg 5rpg

sf- miller- 18ppg 4ast gay- 9ppg 4rpg

pg- atkins- 14ppg 4.5ast stoudmire 8ppg 4.5ast

They are averaging 34ppg and 18rpg from the power forward position. They have a center that averages 20 points and is among the leagues best shot blockers. At sf miller averages 18 points and 4 assist per game and have the young and electric rudy gay behind him averaging 9ppg and 4rpg. Atkins and stoudmire average a combined 22ppg and 9 asst per game. Why are they so bad? They must not play any defense at all.

By reese

February 4, 2007 10:09 PM | Link to this

First of all, great win hawks. Josh Smith and Speedy were my players who had entries in all positive offensive and defensive categories.

If an out of sync speedy can block shots, I don’t understand why lorenzen and shelden can’t consistently block shots. I know the answer, but I’m not gonna criticize them on a win.

I’m glad to see that when Josh Smith was in foul trouble, his teammates jj, marvin, and childress also blocked shots.

Although speedy only scored 2 points, he brought stability to the point guard position. On defense, he helped the post players by doubling down to strip the ball. On offense, he dribbles the ball with confidence and is not looking to get it out of his hands as quickly as possible. Something that I think that childress does when he is playing point.

JJ brought the scoring when others would not shoot. He withstood the pounding and holding of kidd who the refs allow him the freedom and benefit of non calls.

Hopefully, Josh Smith will start getting the benefit of the doubt when he blocks shots. The missed goaltending call on his block of Marcus’ Williams layup and his block of Vince Carter’s layup would never have been called if it was Vince Carter in a similiar situation.

By reese

February 4, 2007 10:24 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, each lineup has advantages in short spurts. The first lineup forces JJ to become a point guard. I don’t care what you see on this blog about Childress playing point, he does not have a point guard mentality. But, it allows JJ to not have to cover a high scoring 2 guard.

The 2nd lineup places another confident ball handler and shooter on the floor (lue) along with JJ.

Neither lineup is really a running lineup. The fast breaks that we get seem to occur when Josh Smith gets a rebound and pushes the pace by dribbling the ball down court.

Just like Zaza who is still getting his 10 points in reduced minutes, I’d rather see speedy and lue at the point at reduced minutes. JJ can play the position at times.

Childress and Marvin are outmanned when they play the power forward position. Lorenzen seems to put up the same stats no matter how many minutes he plays.

JJ and Josh Smith, today’s win goes along way with establishing your credibility as an elite tandem when a team with no all stars beats a team with 2 healthy all stars.

By doc

February 4, 2007 10:33 PM | Link to this

the griz are bad because they absolutely do not play any defense. they are doing a poor mans take on the suns who actually play good defense when you look at a stat called stops per possession. the griz are padding offensive numbers which is good for fantasy b’ball but not for real wins in the nba.

By mykhalc

February 4, 2007 11:04 PM | Link to this

REESE, thanks man. definitely appreciate you guys takin’ the time to share how you see it!!

i hear what you’re sayin’ about JC’s lack of PG mentality BUT our fearless leader WOODSON says that JC’s numbers were down ‘cause he’s havin’ to play PG. so are you sayin’ that JC is NOT playin’ the position in your view or just that he lacks the mentality for the position???

the one thing that i do like about LUE is that he is not afraid to take the shot!! but i liked the fact that JC, JJ, JS, and MW were clearly establishin’ a groove with the consistent minutes they were gettin’ before LUE and SPEEDY returned. and REESE i know you and i feel differently about PT and everyone seein’ the court. but i’d hate to see the team sacrifice chemistry to ensure PT for LUE and SPEEDY, who probably will NOT be healthy the rest of the year without shuttin’ them down again for another extended period of time.

By mavid

February 5, 2007 12:09 AM | Link to this

the griz also play in the west

By reese

February 5, 2007 01:25 AM | Link to this

mykhalc, basically, JC is playing some point because he is bringing the ball down court occasionally.

But as soon as he crosses half court he is looking to quickly get it out of his hands. He is not taking time to survey the defense to see if they are in a man or zone. He is not trying to penetrate and kick from the top of the key. He is never the player who is dribbling time off the clock. He doesn’t do like Josh Smith and push the pace when he gets a rebound.

But, I do appreciate the fact that he is starting to block shots. However, he just seems most comfortable around the baseline performing layups or getting putbacks. Occasionally, he will take and make the open three.

But like Josh Smith, Childress is not good at dribbling when under the threat of pressure.

However, both Joshes have to keep dribbling and keep taking the open shots. In the long run it will benefit their confidence and occasionally the shots will fall.

To tell the truth, Marvin, JJ, Childress and Smith need to get to the point where they are comfortable pushing the pace and finishing on fast breaks. That is suppose to be the advantage of playing undersized players who are the same height.

If these players ball handling and finishing at the basket skill improve. I don’t see any reason why they can’t push the pace on both missed and made baskets. I don’t see whey each can’t average at least 1 block a game.

These are just some of the areas that I look for improvements. I see Josh Smith trying to improve in those areas, but the others don’t seem to want to play at a faster pace.

Also, has anyone else noticed that the hawks screeners don’t know how to roll on the pick and roll. Their backs should never face the other offensive player with the ball. That goes for Shelden, Zaza and lorenzen. That folks is poor fundamentals and in turn poor coaching when it happens repeatedly.

And yes, I have also noticed that the player with the ball doesn’t wait until the screener is set on several occasions.

By reese

February 5, 2007 01:30 AM | Link to this

Almost forgot, great shot to win the game Tyronne Lue.

By mykhalc

February 5, 2007 02:08 AM | Link to this

REESE, again thanks for takin’ the time to share how you see it. and i feel where you are comin’ from. well, let’s pray for a miracle before the trading deadline!!!

By tb

February 5, 2007 03:40 AM | Link to this

There is one most important reason not to “tank”. It goes against the spirit of the game. It is poor sportsmanship. It destroys the qualities that we admire most in sport; perseverance, pride, achievement……

We can (some of us) love a team that doesn’t win, but goes out there with effort, character and class. To play the game to the best of their ability and with full effort.

But, that only covers the individual aspect of the game. There is the team quality. The ability of the individual athletes to come together as a team and complement each other and stand together. The coach is an integral part of this team, he is ever present and he has the reins, both technically and emotionally.

Then there is the GM who forms and molds the team, but also establishes the environment. Trading players is a very delicate thing to do in a sport with such small rosters. Chemistry is at issue. Developing the kind of long-term chemistry that a good B-ball team needs is difficult, but invaluable when established as an enduring environment.

What team that willfully tanks can be respected, can even have self-respect. And what kind of fan is it that encourages the very mentality that threatens the quality of our sport.

I look back so fondly on that Stotts team that “came together” and played near .500 ball for nearly two thirds of the season. Yes, it hurt in the draft order. But, what it did for the spirit of the Hawks beautiful.

And Ando believe me, you are not as tired as anyone else of all your whining. If you were even half as tired of hearing it as me, you would simply stop. I’m sure if you adjust your attitude and review what you really want your values to be, you might find a beginning of positive spirit and generosity.

Every time that you argue some point that you perceive to be something wrong with the team, you are failing to see what is right with it. Since you do that 95% of the time with unbelievable repetition it amounts to a lot of negativity. Where is the love, man?

By tb

February 5, 2007 03:45 AM | Link to this

Reese, very good point on the pick and roll. It’s a team-work kind of play and it definately involves coaching and practice. It is one of the many examples of weak fundamentals by our Hawks. Coaching and execution need to improve.

By mavid

February 5, 2007 04:15 AM | Link to this

since JJ got snubbed:

28 points vs raptors 37 vs nets

itd be nice to see joe make a statement… im sure kobe will have something to say about that tho

By Volman

February 5, 2007 09:47 AM | Link to this

I wouldn’t necessarily call Childress playing the point when Speedy/Lue are out.. I’d say the Hawks are doing “point guard by committee”. Whoever has the ball usually brings it up (Childress, Smith, Joe).

I like the role that Childress is playing right now.. He likes to spot up in the corner where Joe or Josh Smith can dish it to him (where he’s shooting around 40% from three this season, I believe). I don’t cringe when he fires one from three as I do when Josh Smith does (like his airball three yesterday).

Childress brings ENERGY to the team, and makes some great drives… Some REALLY smart drives to the basket, which in turn puts a lot of pressure on the defense.

I haven’t seen much out of him on the defensive end, but I’m glad he finishes around the basket well.

Who is going to guard Kobe tonight?

By Gutz

February 5, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this

Ando, wrong again! Go figure! Oh BTW the Hawks are only 3.5 games out of the 8th playoff seed and are now FINALLY somewhat healthy for the first time all year. And yes I would love it for the Hawks to make the playoffs even if its the 8th seed. The Eastern conference is a joke anyways. Hawks can whip any of the top teams in the East. So anything is possible if we can just get in the playoffs.

By d

February 5, 2007 03:00 PM | Link to this

why is salim inactive . its b****** i hate woodson….