Hawks

By Gutz

January 30, 2007 02:15 PM | Link to this

No doubt another huge win for the Hawks beating Orlando. But with the inconsistent play this team showcases after every big win I’m not getting my hopes up at all. I’m sure we will come out Wed. against Golden St. and get our butts kicked at home. We can never play consistent ball and its driving me nuts. The coaching staff has to be at fault for some of this because it is their job to get the players ready every game. If the Hawks can come and whoop Golden St. and Toronto in our next two games at home then I will get my hopes up but until they start showing some consistent play these wins are pointless.

By newkid

January 30, 2007 02:23 PM | Link to this

I believe it was Bill Clinton who once said ‘it’s the economy, stupid’. Well, it’s E-F-F-O-R-T Sekou. Many have said here that what troubles them most about the Hawks (owners, gm, coaches, and players) is lack of or inconsistent effort. Many have said that if the effort were demonstrably more consistent, losses - while difficult - would be less difficult to stomach. Most here don’t limit there expressions of concern to just the final result. View the comments posted by these guys for just a few days and one readily sees that it’s about far more than WINS and LOSSES with them.

E-F-F-O-R-T.

By Jay

January 30, 2007 02:44 PM | Link to this

The magic’s problem is similar to the hawks…they dont have enough offense. Shut down Howard and theyre in trouble. Grant Hill is obviously far past his prime. I remember him in Detroit and its like he is a completely different person. Its a shame what injuries have done to him. Neelson reminds me of a taller Salim…a streaky shooter. But the magic have a better record then us because they have size in the paint that can be dominating, decent pg play with Arroyo as a 2nd-teamer, and Dwight Howard can and does dominate more often then not.

When I saw the title of the blog, my first thought was…the thin line between tanking the season and looking like you’re trying to win. Im glad when the hawks win, but Im also keeping an eye on the records. If we had enough ping pong balls to sneak into the top 3, that would help this franchise more then us winning another 10 games this year.

Oh, and everyone root against Indiana! Im hoping the trade makes them worse. If our pick from them is in the mid-teens we can get an excellent pg.

As for last night, Lorenzen has some of the ugliest stats for a starting center in the league. But he does well against Howard…I’ll give him credit for shutting him down. Still wish we could play our rookies and Salim more, and JJ is going to wear down (45 minutes last night), but Josh Smith really has come into his own. I ripped on him earlier in the season for his offense…he would never drive and you could find him by the 3-point line with his hands on his hips. But now, he is taking the 2nd scorer option and doing well, driving A LOT, his jumper seems smoother…congrats to him for taking his game to another level.

By Anakin Joe

January 30, 2007 02:49 PM | Link to this

Amen, newkid. A lost is one thing. A dismantling or a utter lack of effort is a whole different animal.

Doc thanks for the clarification, my math has been off this week. If we need to beat GS to earn a .500 record, then that is not likely going to happen. At this point, the only sure thing is that if we lose to a bad team, we’ll likey beat the next good team we play and if we beat a good team, we will surely lose the very next game. Warriors by 17.

For all of the “why is Speedy coming back” bloggers. If there is a razor thin hope that Speedy could be dealt anytime in the next 8 months (including the off-season), he MUST play at least 25-30 consecutive games THIS season. That’s the only way another GM could justify acquiring him, if he shows signs of relative health and decent production in the second half of the year. What were you thinking, that he wouldn’t play until November? Actually, I was wondering if we were looking at a Terrell Brandon story here. And I guess that is still possible.

Hey Doc, tell us more about Speedy’s knee. But put in in plain talk for dummies like me.

By Chris

January 30, 2007 02:57 PM | Link to this

SS,

The hawks are actually 7-7 in the month of January, not 6-7. That would not mean much for most teams, but to take a win away from the hawks makes a big difference at this point.

By Tony

January 30, 2007 03:04 PM | Link to this

Actually, I think that the centers did play better defense last night against Howard. Wright was very physical and help came very quickly whenever Howard made his moves. They played much better against Dako too. I do think that the team as a whole is becoming better defensively and that will win a lot of games down the stretch. Look, this team is very young and makes stupid mistakes constantly on offense but they are improving.

By Hawks Fan

January 30, 2007 03:49 PM | Link to this

When the Hawks are playing well (that’s about every other game) they sure are fun to watch.

Joe Johnson is “da friggen man”, and I love to see J Smooth proving the credits wrong.

I want to see us win, but I also want to see us with the #1 pick in the draft.

C Greg Oden PF Sheldon Williams SF Josh Smith SG Joe Johnson PG T. Lue

Get me my season tickets now.

By honest_abe

January 30, 2007 03:58 PM | Link to this

heew haaw!

on a freaking roll! uh, what’s that? do i hear championship … heh

when you are a team that has been this bad for this long, you have to celebrate each success no matter how small. a .500 record for one month is a monumental step for this team. ok monumental might be too big of a word. but it’s a big step forward in terms of the confidence it would generate and the improved psyche of a young club. we all know how tough it is to take criticsm. imagine if you were a 22 year old kid and all you ever heard was about how badly you sucked!

i’m proud of this team. for all the problems associated with the club, financial restraints, ownership problems, an imbalanced roster, injuries, the youngest team in the league, a incompetent coach (cheap shot) and yet they still managed to play .500 ball for a month. ok not yet but i’m saying it’s something this whole city should congratulate them for. playing hard on most nights. giving it everything they got and being one helluva entertaining, scrappy team. (on most nights).

GOOOOOOOOOOOO HAWKS.

NOW GO MAKE ME LOOK STUPID AND LOSE YOUR NEXT 20 GAMES!

By Tyger

January 30, 2007 04:00 PM | Link to this

Dreading the return of Speedy on Friday night, but on the optimistic side, if he can string together a couple of good games, maybe a ZaZa/Speedy package could yield something of value. Thats $11M of cap space, if you didnt know.

Finally, with the return of Ty Lue and the bruising play of Lo Wright, the Big 3: JJ, Smoove and Marvin are starting to gel. Speedy will of course immediately destroy that, but it may be in the best interests of the team in the long run.

Lo Wright doesnt get any credit but he is one of the Hawks I’m most proud of. His effort doesnt show in the stat column but he’s one of the few, Estaban being the other, that will put his body on someone. He lays the woood as they say. And one of the few players that wont get punked and for us, thats immeasurable. And its no coincidence that we’ve played better since he replaced “Flop” Paculia.

By Armond Hill

January 30, 2007 04:12 PM | Link to this

I read this blog sometimes, but I missed the one where it was stated just who smoove is. Is that Josh Smith?

By doc

January 30, 2007 04:14 PM | Link to this

aj, in my opinion it is going to be an on again off again thing for speedy this season. i imagine he has been injected with steroids, given anti-inflamatory agents like your advil over the counter but at a higher dose and will be working with some kind of rehab during the season. he wont be able to really increase his strength in the knee during the season and with it inflamed but most of the effort will be to keep him from losing muscle mass while it is injured thereby avoiding other types of injuries taht could be more severe. some games he will be on and some games he will look like an old man especially back to backs because the pain can be very severe, like a knife went into the center of the knee right behind the knee cap. if he is lucky then maybe he can get some milage on his knees and some rhythem in his game and with the other teammates. i like his on ball defense but face it the team did not win while he was in there for the most part so until i see the w’s improve i will be skeptical of his impact.

remember, we recently have had expensive free agents with bad knees before in none other than big al harrington who sat out the end of one year to decrease the wear and tear so he could contribute the next year. he also looked like an old man at times last year from his knee problems that were chronic. speaking of al he gets a chance to torch the hawks one more time this year since he got traded west and to stuff it to bk. again, that wasnt because of bk as wadell put it bluntly; it wasnt up to bk to make the best deal for al but to make the best deal for the hawks that didnt mean increasing the payroll. yes, that is what the president of the spirit said.

as an aside, i think this is maybe the problem that jayson williams is having for the heat. now that i am here it is amazing that as smart as jerry west was supposed to be and how sad it was that he chose the griz over the aol group to work for thereby giving us bk it might have worked better for us as he has done absolutely nothing except undo a fairly good nucleus left to him by bk including gasol that got to the playoffs two years in a row and looked to be coming on until he got rid of jayson williams for eddie jones. now guess what?, he is letting jones go who will sign with you guessed it the heat so nothing came from that deal for the griz. i said it last year and was jumped by some bloggers for defaming west for his job in memphis but now even the journalists are beginning to pick up on it. that might be a mouthful for some of the haters of bk not that i am a true admirer but history has shown that bk was better than west,.notice i have moved from the field of speculation that so many of you want to revel in to real facts. good day!

By Kappy

January 30, 2007 04:28 PM | Link to this

Armond Hill Yes, JSmoove is Josh Smith. It just sounds a lot cooler and a lot more hip hop than Josh Smith.

By Ryder

January 30, 2007 04:33 PM | Link to this

Good post abe. I know I have been very critical of this organization, but I’m getting off the “fire Woodson” bandwagon (sorry Clyde) This man can only do so much with ownership in total disarray, and whether people like to hear it or not he has tried the best he could with this roster. Not saying he should be let off the hook for some of his decisions (like why on earth this team doesn’t run more) but Woodson has done the best he could with this roster I suppose. His boss on the other hand… but anyway, this team does need to show consistency. These next two games are bigger than we fans might say publicly. With the state of the Eastern conference anything is possible with a nice run during this time of year.

I’ll just be happy if this team even begins to move in a positive direction. JJ making the all star team would be a great place to begin!

By Jay

January 30, 2007 04:41 PM | Link to this

Anyone else see Woody’s comments on espn about needing another point guard? Obviously he thinks Ivey and Salim cant cut it, and Speedy…well who knows where he is. I did my civic duty and filed a missing person report on Speedy.

By Hawks Fan

January 30, 2007 04:41 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry Armond Hill, silly of us to think it would be ok to refer to a player by his nickname on a blog.

Yes Josh Smith of College Park, GA is sometimes refered to as J smoove or J smooth.

By Paul Roland

January 30, 2007 04:46 PM | Link to this

I’d like to see the Hawks trade Josh Smith to the Suns to recoup the pick they lost in the Joe Johnson trade and ask them to throw in their first as well as the first they have from Cleveland. That would give ALT 3 first in the next draft but more importantly, a better chance of getting Durant or Oden in the enxt draft.

Face it, this teams is far from being a contender. Josh Smith will not take us there but Oden or Durant with Joe Johnson might.

Boston sees the big picture and WILL have the worst record which will maximize their chances of getting Durant or Oden. These guys are both hall-of-fame type players.

Trading Smith not only gets the pick back but also allows us to fall to the cellar where we really need to be considering the importance of this up-coming draft.

Come on, this team is 6 games out of the playoffs in this lousy conference. The East is a joke and we can’t make the playoffs even here.

PHX needs a big, athletic player for their playoff run. I see it as a win-win trade for both clubs.

By travis

January 30, 2007 04:56 PM | Link to this

Remember when Scott Norwood missed the field goal to give New York their 1st SB ring? Remember when Vanderjack missed his field goal that sealed a victory for last year’s SB winners Steelers? These are the type of losses that people lament. Good losses are like when Miami finally lost to the Chargers in the greatest game ever, when Kellen Winslow Sr. was carried off the field or when Frazier lost to Ali. These are GOOD losses. But with the Hawks, they are losing games where they are up by 20 in the 4th qtr.

By mykhalc

January 30, 2007 05:05 PM | Link to this

ABE, good post and that last line is sooooooooo true!!LOL

well, i get to see a game tomorrow since it’s against GS!! watch out boyz i’m bringin’ my ‘A’ game analysis afterwards!!LOL man, i hope they DO NOT let AL and JACKSON rip them tomorrow. i’m sick of those 2!!!

DOC, i’m with ya on WEST’s job in MEMPHIS. he definitely has deconstructed a good team that BK left behind!!!

i’m really hopin’ SPEEDY is more of an after-thought to WOODSON’s game-time strategy when he returns. like you said DOC, SPEEDY being in the lineup DID NOT equate to wins prior to his injury. and his tone in his last press conference reminded me of the DELK comments that were made last year. he did not seem to be real excited about havin’ him back. we’ll see soon how it plays out!!??!!

By mykhalc

January 30, 2007 05:12 PM | Link to this

PAUL, why is the idea of potential soooooo much more attractive than production???? i really DO NOT understand the logic??? but regardless, your argument has been hashed over MANY times and from many different angles in past blogs!!

By Billy knight

January 30, 2007 05:18 PM | Link to this

Yes, can we please draft Durant. We need a skinny, under 20 yrs old, 6’9 forward. We don’t have enough of those!

Sorry but the last thing we need is a forward.

By Armond Hill

January 30, 2007 05:18 PM | Link to this

Yes, it does. Thanks. Now I can follow what’s going on.

By Gutz

January 30, 2007 05:24 PM | Link to this

No doubt another huge win for the Hawks beating Orlando. But with the inconsistent play this team showcases after every big win I’m not getting my hopes up at all. I’m sure we will come out Wed. against Golden St. and get our butts kicked at home. We can never play consistent ball and its driving me nuts. The coaching staff has to be at fault for some of this because it is their job to get the players ready every game. If the Hawks can come and whoop Golden St. and Toronto in our next two games at home then I will get my hopes up but until they start showing some consistent play these wins are pointless.

By Paul Roland

January 30, 2007 05:28 PM | Link to this

Oden is going to be a dominant center in the mold of Shaq.

Durant will be unlike any player ever before. He is like a cross of Michael Jordan and Kevin Garnett all in one.

These guys will be light years better than the rest of the field and far better than anything Josh Smith will bring to the table.

Why are so many people enamored with Smith? Yeah he dunks nicely but at 8 boards a game, I don’t like his rebounding stats for all of that jumping ability. I think he makes the most sense to trade to try and get Oden or Durant.

Besides, PHX won’t be able to pay JSmith so I would like to see the Hawks snag him back in a year!!!

I think PHX needs another big guy after seeing Garnett demolish them single-handedly. I think they make the trade giving ATL 3 picks in this upcomng draft.

By Paul

January 30, 2007 05:35 PM | Link to this

Actually I want Oden but to think Durant is another skinny 19 yo tells me you don’t watch college BB. Have you seen the guy play? He is unbelievable. Oden though would be the perfect fit. He will be a dominant center from day 1 and likely be around dominating the middle for the next 15 years.

ODEN PLEASE!!!

Those greedy Celtics whom I hate are making me sick the way they are losing. There is no doubt they are the the path to Durant or Oden. Normally I am not a lose-one-to-get-a-pick type of guy but this reminds me of how I felt when Jordan and Olajuwon were coming out. It was two can’t miss guys.

Oden and Durnat are can’t miss players.

By Biff Booter

January 30, 2007 06:01 PM | Link to this

Affect of Injuries on Hawks

Record with Joe Johnson playing 15-24 Record Without Joe Johnson playing 1-3

Record with Josh Smith playing 15-20 Record without Josh Smith playing 1-7

Record with J-Chill playing 11-13 Record without J-Chill playing 5-14

Record with Tyronn Lue playing 12-15 Record without Tyronn Lue playing 4-12

Record with Marvin playing 8-18 Record without Marvin playing 8-9

Record with Speedy playing 8-18 Record without Speedy playing 8-9

Record in games Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, Josh Childress, Marvin Williams and Tyronn Lue all playing 3-1

Record in games with all 6 play: has not happened this season.

Only Shelden Williams has played every game this season.

The Hawks, when relatively healthy are a .500 team contending for the final playoff spot.

They have legit elite level talent in Joe Johnson, two super all around talents in the Joshes and Shelden is going to be a solid if unspectacular big who does the little things to help win games.

The key here is Marvin Williams. If the Hawks staff can figure out what is wrong with him and get him to realize even 3/4 of his potential this team could be something special. Can Woodson get that out of him? Who knows. Will ownership be patient enough to let this team mature? Will they invest the dollars needed to push it forward?

Who knows….but BK has built a solid foundation.

By Kappy

January 30, 2007 06:20 PM | Link to this

Paul Roland You’ve made some solid arguments, but i flat out disagree with you about Josh. His 8 rebounds a game are very solid numbers, considering the guys ahead of him in the league are centers or dominant PF’s. The guy is 6’8” and still a string bean. Not to mention(which you didn’t) his dominant off the ball defense at the rim and overall defensive prowess. I guess you haven’t been watching the games, or noticed a significant change in attitude/momentum in the Hawks when JSmoove came back from injury.

I think JSmoove is just as valuable as JJ. There, I said it.

By Kappy

January 30, 2007 06:24 PM | Link to this

Biff Booter Love the post. I especially agree with your sentiments of Marvin.

And it definitely reinforced my thoughts on Josh Smith. 1-7 without him? Wowzers.

By LL Cool Scott

January 30, 2007 06:45 PM | Link to this

Oden and Durant are the two best players to come out of the draft since Lebron and Dwight Howard. This team is nowhere even CLOSE to contending and won’t be when these young kids grow up either. Why not blow this crap up and go after Oden and Durant like Philly, Memphis, and Boston are clearly doing? That actually might give us a hope at contending some day. So, of course, we won’t do that. We’ll win just enough games to lose our top pick and prolong this franchise’s misery for another 5 years until another Oden or Durant comes along. It’s so painful being a Hawks fan…

By the hawks are cursed for trading nique

January 30, 2007 06:58 PM | Link to this

Sekou….the celtics media didnt jump down there throats for loosing because there smart fans!! they know the team has no chance at the playoffs….and like the hawks should be, are in the race to get Durant or Oden. If we loose our top pick this year (if we dont get a top 3) this year will be a total waste!! and next year will be no better unless we bring in a top free agent like garnett. If we get Oden with the top pick, then get a point guard with indianas pick….well be a legit team! as of right now, this team even at its best is a first round playoff exit waiting to happen.

By Volman

January 30, 2007 06:59 PM | Link to this

Did anyone watch the post-game interview of Woody? He seemed frustrated when Speedy came up… It was almost like he was fed up, and I think he said something about “addressing the situation” if Speedy and Lue can’t stay healthy.. am I right?

Woody is even fed up that he has to throw Josh Childress out at the point… Royal isn’t getting it done… T-Lue is hurt.. Speedy, eek.

We need to try and get a starting point!

By Covington,Ga

January 30, 2007 07:09 PM | Link to this

If we dont get the top three pick this year maybe we did give too much for J.J. even though he is a great player we will have to give up our 08 1st round pick no matter what place we come in….so we need to keep losing…get the 1st or 2nd pick draft Oden or Durant then pick a PG with the next pick…

By JohnGTFan

January 30, 2007 07:28 PM | Link to this

Great blog. Some very solid comments here today. But I have to question…why would anyone think Durant is a cross between KG and MJ…are you serious? LOL That’s insane. Sure, he’s a good talent…but that is a REACH!!! Oden I think will turn into a GOOD NBA player, but he will not dominate in the NBA like he does at OSU. You have to remember, he doesn’t go against the bodies in college that he will in the NBA. Shaq, although old, will make him look silly, as will Dikembe, Wallace, and the other truly strong bruisers down low in the NBA. He has NO offensive talent right now, other than dunking. He, like most of the Hawks, is a project. Personally, I would like to see ATL trade for a proven big man and use the draft for a PG, and a big man to back up a proven one. Again, just my opinion.

By Paul

January 30, 2007 07:38 PM | Link to this

LL Cool Scott, I totally agree. First of all, I am going to be really ticked off if Phoenix gets our pick if we don’t get the lottery pick. That is going to turn out to be a pretty good pick. How lousy are we going to be if we have to give our pick to PHX and then compete in 2007-08 with this same team? Come on already, I am getting sick of it.

Your choices: a. Trade JSmith to PHX for their 3 first-round picks. Likely tumble to 3rd or soand enter the draft with a reasonable chance at a great player.

b. No changes and essentially have only a 4% chance at getting one of the studs Oden/Durnat. Then let Phoenix use our pick to take a good player and watch from the sidelines. We then enter 2007-08 with this lousy team.

Life is so painful knowing we go with plan B.

By roan st

January 30, 2007 07:41 PM | Link to this

The teams history probably has something to do with how the fans and media treat a franchise. I’m sure all those banners hanging in the Boston fleet center might be the reason they get a free pass. But down here in atlanta we have no great history to draw on when our team hits rock bottom. Nothing makes me more irate than to here an outsider call falcon fans “fair weather fans”. Let your team go 45 years without back to back winning seasons and zero championships, then will see how you react. Atlanta has only one championship combined for all our major sports franchises and I think that is why our fans are so critical.

By Anakin Joe

January 30, 2007 08:00 PM | Link to this

Thanks, Doc. Not the most rosy picture you laid out there. Hopefully we can sign someone like McNamara since Speedy may only be good for 20 minutes every other game.

This remarkably deep draft is slowly coming apart (as I expected). After the top 3 there are some appealing players but certainly not a lot of “sure things”. If GA Tech continues to struggle, I can’t imagine either of those freshmen leaving without haing a chance to get to the tournament. McRoberts is struggling, no need for him to leave early. And there are several other guys who appear to be enjoying college. Noah is slidng as much for being an energy guy (with little developed skills as a junior) as he is because others are surpassing him. I’ll say it again and for the 87th time, unless it is someone like Oden, we DO NOT NEED TO GET YOUNGER. The hand has been dealt, let’s just play it and try to win and build some “good will” amongst the current Hawks and some potential Hawks.

By T-Payne

January 30, 2007 08:43 PM | Link to this

Apparently none of the bloggers here have ever played basketball or have no sense of competition. Why on earth would you blow up a fairly good team, talent wise, for a chance (not a sure bet), but a chance to draft Oden or Durant. Stupid is is what stupid does. Have you guys looked at the East? Next year it will still be weak, and everyone knows the Hawks are one coach and a point guard away from being in the same neighborhood as the Wizards. A young athletic team, with one dominant player (Johnson) and a number two (Smith) that can score. Now if Marvin Williams or Childress ever become a legit number three night in and night out, the Hawks at least make the play-offs and the draft pick going to Phoenix means nothing this year of next.

By Paul

January 30, 2007 08:51 PM | Link to this

We don’t need to get younger but we need to get a heck of a lot better. We are not a good team. JJ is not the player you neerd to be your number 1. He needs to be your number 2 guy to a guy like Oden.

Actually I don’t think Phoenix would even make the trade. They see our lousy record and are drooling over our pick. They might make the trade if we would take Banks off of their hands. It isn’t like Banks is some washed up prune. He just didn’t fit their system.

I like the idea of getting all their picks and take Banks for JSmith. We then set our sights on Oden.

I think with JJ and Oden, this team would be set for the next 10 years. I would expect NBA finals within 3 years.

By Paul

January 30, 2007 09:05 PM | Link to this

T-Payne With no trade, the Suns likely get our pick THIS year as I doubt we get a top-3 pick. The odds are too slim with the weighted balls.

I will be mad as heck when the Suns are on the clock this year. If we make the trade then we still will get a very good player if not Oden.

It’s either we keep JSmith and let PHX take our pick or we trade JSmith and then keep our pick regardless.

If we don’t get Oden or Durant, we still likely get a very good player that will maybe be better that JSmith. It is worth the gamble.

By MannyT

January 30, 2007 09:06 PM | Link to this

Is the Hawks being in the same neighborhood as the Wizards, the same as me living under an off ramp in Buckhead?

The ‘Zards also have some beef up front. They may not score much, but the defense works ok. Remember Jamison used to be pretty good. When they fire on all cylinders Gilbert gets Caron Butler as his rising star. Their 3 headed offense averages about 70 a night.

We gotta have more of a consistent effort. It takes 5 guys averaging 12 pts a night here to do what Butler & Jamison do in Buckhead, I mean Georgetown, er, DC!

Get me a veteran big this season than can lead and intimidate a little like Charles Oakley did in the old days and this team could be 10 games better.

By HB Ando

January 30, 2007 09:45 PM | Link to this

Joe, McRoberts has fallen into the late lottery range, projection-wise. But he is coming off of minor disc surgery in the off-season, so it may be too early to throw him out of the mix. But the lottery is still sick-deep with athletic, skilled big men. And the multi-million dollar contracts will be too strong of a lure for most of the best players.

I know you don’t want to get younger, but I’m just not seeing you offer any realistic alternatives to improving this team, given financial/ownership constraints, the lack of skill possessed by Billy, and the very strong truth that Joe Johnson is likely to be the last guy in a long time to think he can turn the Hawks around, via free agency. There’s not an agent in the NBA who would advise his client to join this franchise, as is.

So, honestly, how do we get better, save keeping that top-3 pick, and drafting a potential franchise big man?

I remain curious……..

By Clyde

January 30, 2007 11:00 PM | Link to this

I’m sorry Tyger but I could not let you pass on this one:

“Lo Wright doesn’t get any credit but he is one of the Hawks I’m most proud of. His effort doesn’t show in the stat column but he’s one of the few, Estaban being the other, that will put his body on someone. He lays the woood as they say. And one of the few players that wont get punked and for us, thats immeasurable. And its no coincidence that we’ve played better since he replaced “Flop” Paculia.”

Are you serious? Yes he does put a body on someone but he fouls when he does it. We don’t need bangers we need shot blockers!! And by checking the stats it showed me Lorenzen Wright only has 17 blocks for the season. Josh Smith has 93. Josh Childress has 20 and he was out for a month. This is unacceptable for NBA center.

By mykhalc

January 30, 2007 11:20 PM | Link to this

ANDO, you are right in that no agent would advise their client to join this franchise but when has that ever really stopped a player from doin’ what he REALLY wanted to do if the option was available??? if HOWARD was available and the franchise had the cash, but was still in disarray, don’t you think HOWARD would sign here??? ABSOLUTELY!!! his hometown, chance to play with JS, and the drive (ego driven as it may be) to believe he WOULD BE/IS the difference to turn this franchise around!! now granted, that would not be every player’s position. but my point is, if that is what a player wants, and it’s a viable option, chances are he’ll get it!!!

i’m with JOE, in that i DO NOT want to see this team get younger. yet i understand yours and others position about the 3 pick. i just think we are only a solid, VETERAN BIG away from havin’ a much improved team. imagine how DOLEAC (sp?) would improve this team!!! and it’s not like he’s great by any stretch of the imagination. but he’s a big improvement over who we have now, IMHO at least!!!

best case scenario is…team plays its’ a$$ off (real effort), wins enough to better its’ record from last year while learnin’ how to win, yet loses enough to retain the pick!! i’m all for everybody being happy!!!LOL

By mavid

January 30, 2007 11:28 PM | Link to this

lorenzon wright’s statlines are always entertaining… 17 minutes, 1-4, 1 rebounds, 2 points, 0 steals, 0 blocks, 5 personal fouls hahah

ando, ive seen you say before that smoove and marvin are an inappropriate pairing at the foward positions, considering that both are natural 3s

but, as the season progresses, i cant help but notice how well the 2 are starting to play with eachother

really, our problem is the 5… and its a big, big problem

but, i am very happy about what the trio of jj, marvin and smoove can possibly do in the next few years. i think it might be more special than most of us think. marvin is the X factor.

By mykhalc

January 30, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this

and like JOHNGTFAN posted, all the ODEN fans better KNOW that he will be abused when he steps foot into this league, ON A NITELY BASIS TOO!! how do i know??? the same way that some believe he IS the answer for the HAWKS!! in other words, just ain’t no way of knowin’!! PERIOD!!!

By Clyde

January 30, 2007 11:30 PM | Link to this

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By mykhalc

January 30, 2007 11:40 PM | Link to this

MAVID’s post has prompted me to repost one of my posts from the previous blog in hopes of gettin’ some replies…

*By mykhalc

January 30, 2007 02:30 AM | Link to this

they are some ready to ship MARVIN off but i’m not one. since this team isn’t gonna challenge for much and the owner dispute along with general ineptness will keep the team from makin’ any real moves, i think MW deserves at least the time JSMITH has had to bring his game up to speed. JS did not really step things up until after the allstar game last year. so hopefully, MW will do the same.

as i noted before i do not see the games in SF so i’m always at a disadvantage when tryin’ to analyze things. but one comment keeps comin’ back at me when people size up the front court. when did 6’9” become small??? definitely not small for a 3!! and how many star 4’s are over 6”9”? i get KG, DIRK, DUNCAN and a few that i might be missin’ but i’m not followin’ that analysis. i understand if they are PLAYIN’ SMALL!! but that can be addressed with coachin’, gettin’ in the weight room, and of course desire!!! and as we all know, MW and JS are JUST beginnin’ to adjust to their adult bodies.

these cats are missin’ one thing…that 5 that can anchor the middle!! give this team that one player and watch the production of JS and MW crank up a notch, IMHO!! right now, at 20 and 21 yrs old, not only are they bein’ asked to start but they are req’d to be the number 2 and 3 scorers on the team. and JS has to lead the team in rebounds!!! it’s a lot to ask with no REAL support at the 5!!!*

By mavid

January 31, 2007 12:04 AM | Link to this

^^

good post… i whole-heartedly agree. the only problem is, getting that 5 is not going to be easy

my dream (which is sooo unrealistic, im not being serious): memphis decides to tank the season to get oden (yeah i know, unlikely)… so, they decide that chill, shelden, and our pick from indiana is good enough compensation for gasol

they get chill, shelden, plus their pick (somewhere in the top 3), and the indiana pick (maybe mid teens)… maybe that isnt so bad??

haha

we would be scary good next year with a lineup of speedy/lue (serviceable pgs if healthy), jj/salim, marvin/someone, smoove/zaza, gasol/lorenzen

By Biff Booter`

January 31, 2007 12:13 AM | Link to this

Perspective….

Since the 1979-80 season, Magic and Bird’s rookie year and the generally accepted beginning of the NBA’s modern era, exactly 8 franchises out of 30 have won NBA titles. 8 out of 30, with Philly and Miami winning one each.

Baby steps is what is needed here. First we need to put the pieces in place to be a consistent winner. Knight trained under Donnie Walsh in Indiana (4 losing seasons in 20 as GM/President). Give me the quality that Indiana puts on the floor year after year and I will be overjoyed.

The roster he inherited: Shareef, Glenn Robinson, Jason Terry, Dion Glover, Theo Ratliff, Ira Newble, Alan Henderson and Darvin Ham.

And with that juggernaut we were over the cap. That bunch was old, expensive and lousy.

Pete Babcock’s first round picks in his 13 years: Rumeal Robinson, Stacey Augmon, Anthony Avent, Adam Keefe, Doug Edwards, Alan Henderson, Priest Lauderdale, Ed Gray, Roshown McLeod, Jason Terry, Cal Bowdler, Dion Glover, Jumaine Jones (4 1st round picks and he blew 3 of them) and DeMarr Johnson.

I count 4 productive NBA players (Augmon, Keefe, Henderson and Terry) out of 14 picks.

Knight’s first round picks: Boris Diaw, J-Chill, Josh Smith, Marvin Williams, Shelden Williams, plus Ivey, Stoudamire and Solomon Jones in round 2.

And we are still way under the cap and have the flexibility to move anyone at any time because most are at low salaries.

Bottom line is that this franchise is in the best shape to build a sustained culture of winning since the mid-80s.

I see two real problems. First we have the ownership fiasco. Until that is resolved the Hawks will not be able to make it to the elite level. And if Belkin gets control Knight is gone, which would be a major blow to the process.

Second the current squad lacks mental toughness. They lose too many close games. They lose defensive intensity for long stretches and they have not a clue how to put the ball in the bucket in crunch time. It may take a coaching change to fix those problems. Or maybe they need to import an old school, Charles Oakley type vet to teach the kids how to play.

This squad does need to be broken up, it needs to be augmented. A tweak here or their and this could be a 50 win team.

By mykhalc

January 31, 2007 12:25 AM | Link to this

BIFF, you got me cryin’ while lookin’ at the BABCOCK picks!!!!! BABCOCK was a waste as GM!!!!

By mykhalc

January 31, 2007 12:32 AM | Link to this

i’m hopin’ it’s as simple as this…WOODSON has told SOLOMON that no matter what, you will just not see the floor much before the allstar game. he makes him put his time in durin’ practice before the break and then turns him lose, for good or bad, after the break. there is such a good chance he can provide the boards and blocks this team so desperately needs!!

By Biff Booter

January 31, 2007 12:33 AM | Link to this

As an addendum to my above…

Go look at the team stat lines, Hawks vs. Opponents on the Hawks site. You will see that the Hawks are virtually dead even with opponents with one notable exception.

The Hawks shoot .436 from the field. Opponents shot .464. That is due to a lack of interior defense. Knight recognized this from last year which is why he drafted Shelden. And he will develop into a decent post defender I believe but we need more. Zaza and Lorenzen are not cutting it defensively. The problem with this team is not a lack of guys who can put the ball in the bucket.

As Mavid states above. The problem is with the 5. We need some real defensive presence, shot blocking, rebounding and muscle from either the 4 or the 5.

By T-Payne

January 31, 2007 12:34 AM | Link to this

The Hawks more resemble the Wizards than not. After getting Arenas, the Wizards still sucked (just like the Hawks did with Johnson), then they went out an added complimentary pieces. Until we get that third option, hopefully Marvin, the Hawks will be stucked in neutral. Remember it took Caron Butler almost five years to become the budding star he is now. Remember every Batman must have a Robin, but most important they got to have an Alfred there to do all the work that goes unnoticed.

By ray

January 31, 2007 12:48 AM | Link to this

All this talk about dominating. Getting a dominating player is a side effect. It’s a stretch and a hope. Most of the time, you pick a guy because of his potential to do great things. Who knew a skinny kid from Farragut high school would dominate in this league, playing like an MVP year after year? Who knew a soccer-playing Canadian kid from Santa Clara (buried behind Jason Kidd, no less) would surpass kid in some ways and become a two-time MVP? The only guy people KNEW was going to dominate was Shaq. And that’s because he was easily bigger and stronger than anyone else with athletic ability included.

What we’re looking for here is someone who will COMPETE. A guy who can play the post and not get dominated night in and night out. Even if Gred Oden is the biggest guy in the draft, he may not be the most dominant big man 6 years from now. But barring injury and a host of other unlucky things happening, he’ll compete and be good. I’m not saying he won’t be a star, I’m saying we don’t know yet. Same goes for all the guys who enter the draft. We need a player who can compete. Being competitive is being successful. Anything less is, well…getting dominated. Some nights you win, other nights you lose. But you gotta play in such a way that the opponent KNOWS you were there and cannot be taken lightly.

By Wedgie Evans

January 31, 2007 01:02 AM | Link to this

Biff, I almost entirely agree with your post, but I think Billy Knight grossly overvalued Marvin Williams and Shelden Williams. Neither one of those players looks like they will be stars in this league right now. I know it’s still early in their careers, but there are some tendencies you can pick up by watching a player even early on — for example, Marvin’s complete lack of a clue on defense, and Shelden’s lack of athleticism and unwillingness to do anything with the basketball on offense. You are exactly right about the Hawks needing a 5 who can play D (and who can score in the post), but I don’t see Shelden being that guy.

This franchise has been “in the best shape to build a sustained culture of winning” for about a year and a half now. Billy Knight did a good job clearing out all the veteran dead weight and acquiring the pick used on Josh Smith from the Pistons for Rasheed Wallace. He did a nice job figuring out that Joe Johnson could be the #1 scoring option on this team and acquiring him (although he probably gave up 1 draft pick too many in the process). But around the time of the 2005 offseason, this team stopped moving forward and got stuck in neutral. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the 2005 draft — I wanted him to pick Deron Williams, most people wanted him to pick Chris Paul, and instead he took Marvin Williams. I thought maybe Marvin could be a Kevin Garnett-like presence at forward — unfortunately, right now he looks more like a poor man’s Antawn Jamison (which isn’t terrible, but definitely isn’t worth passing up 2 blue-chip point guards). And this past offseason was very disappointing — picking Shelden instead of Brandon Roy and signing Speedy Claxton in free agency were both pretty boneheaded moves from a long-term perspective. Obviously Billy Knight thought way too highly of Claxton, M. Williams, and S. Williams, and those moves have really set back the development of this franchise.

Billy Knight runs laps around Pete Babcock, there’s no question, and I do think this squad needs to build around its two stars — Joe Johnson and Josh Smith. But Knight’s plan called for the Hawks to make the playoffs this year, which explains him trading away this year’s first rounder and signing Speedy Claxton in free agency. Barring a miracle, the Hawks are still going to finish out of the playoffs, and after seeing Knight’s plan fail I don’t think Knight deserves to stay past this season if the Hawks once again finish in the lottery.

By mykhalc

January 31, 2007 01:24 AM | Link to this

how long did it take JJ to breakout?? KOBE?? KG??? JO??? young cats steppin’ into a MAN’s league!! DIRK?? NASH?? my point is why do we expect MARVIN to be instant anythin’ and everthin’??? not realistic folks!! just DOES NOT happen in this league!! and when it does it is the exception!! and i’m not sayin’ MARVIN will be anythin’ like any of these cats. but i’m sayin’ slow down!! look at the strides JS made since the beginin’ of the year!! we went from not knowin’ what to expect to knowin’ that more than not, he’ll bring a double-double every nite. give MW a chance!!

By tb

January 31, 2007 02:24 AM | Link to this

Add McGrady to that list.

Those posts debating sending Smith to Phx for three firsts; including ours this year; to then draft Oden or Durant with it?

If Phx got the trade and sent it back, it would necissarily be a #4 or higher; No Durant or Oden.

So a #4 or higher and a couple of late picks…..nah

Keep Smith

By gaboystock

January 31, 2007 06:47 AM | Link to this

Trade Josh Smith for draft picks…LMFAO

What do you want; dude’s giving double doubles, just now getting chest hair, and developing attitude. We don’t need projects…we need players. JS is a horse. That reporter who said he’d never make it would really have a chuckle at trading him, now that he has.

By Paul

January 31, 2007 07:01 AM | Link to this

People are not realizing how deep this draft goes this year. Phoenix is bragging about their 3 picks thinking even their own pick will be of significant value this year.

Howard was a measly #17 pick. He turned out well for that spot. This draft will have lots of guys much past #17 that could be good contributers.

The failed logic in not trading JSmith is not the fact that it is protected but the fact by trading him away will allow ATL to finish in or near the cellar.

Finishing last would give the team with the most balls in the lottery more than a 40% chance of getting the number 1 or 2 pick. Boston fans realize this fact.

Atlanta fans covet this JSmith like he is gold and he will help them finish high enough such that they get so few balls that our chances of getting the number 1 or 2 pick will be under 4%.

IF you stand put then it is highly like we don’t get into the top-3 and therefore PHX will get our pick. THat player has a good chance to be better than JSmith. In fact between their 3 picks in this immensely deep draft, it is likely they will get more value than they would with just JSmith alone.

If we make the trade, then we immensely increase our chances at getting into the top 3. THe bonus to that is if we get our pick back in this trade that we can get it to a #4 at worst by finishing lousy like smart Boston is doing.

SIlly me for wanting to try a stategy of BOston who has only won a billion championships. JSmith and JJ as your number 1 and number 2 players? = NO CHAMPIONSHIPS = NO CHANCE IN A AT ALL.

By Paul

January 31, 2007 07:11 AM | Link to this

Phoenix likely wouldn’t make the trade for JSmith anyway. Why would they make a trade for a guy by giving us 3 draft picks in maybe the deepest draft ever this year? I live in AZ and they are happy as heck to have 3 picks in this draft. THis was the drft to have 3 picks if you were going to load up. THey were very smart to do what they did.

I hate them having our pick in this draft. WIth no trade it is unlikely we get into the top 3 and hence PHX gets to use the pick this year. NExt year I don’t care but this year I don’t want them getting this top-10 pick!!!

By dap

January 31, 2007 07:33 AM | Link to this

Anyone,

What could we expect to be able to draft with the Indy pick? Would any centers or PG’s still be available?

What FA could we sign our remaining cap space this summer?

What is the best case scenario with our current course?

By fritzenheimer

January 31, 2007 07:49 AM | Link to this

It’s no surprise that the Hawks are 1-7 without JSmoove. They have absolutely no interior defense without him. He blocks 2.65 shots a game that can’t be replaced when he is out of the lineup. Consider that most of the shots he blocks are layups (in other words a sure two points). So he saves 5.3 points a game. Hawks give up 96.4 ppg and score 91.5 ppg. Simple math problem; not to mention opponents second shots he prevents with his rebounding.

While this is a credit to Smoo he is still very much a flawed player and still makes poor passes and poor percentage shots. What we really need is a legitimate big man who can score, rebound and defend. Tell me it isn’t a joke that Lorenzo Wright is our starting center. ZZ can’t play a lick of defense and won’t put a body on anyone. Until we get some presence in the middle we aren’t going anywhere.

Just my $0.02

By Paul

January 31, 2007 08:09 AM | Link to this

Fritz You’ve stated much better what I am trying to state. My goal is to get our draft pick back in this enormously deep draft. There is geat talent in the top 10 and hall-of-fame talent in the top-2 picks.

I’d love to offer PHX our 12th man for the pick back but am trying to be realistic. Who could we trade them for our pick back? Can anybody name someone realistic? I figured JSmith makes the most since since they need interior defense. He has a lousy shooting percentage for a big man. HE has holes in his game but supplies enough defense that I think PHX will be willing to trade for him.

Here is another issue I have with him. HE becomes a free agent in 2008 I believe. Based on his age and shot-blocking ability, somebody is going to offer him a max contract. I am not sure I want my max contracts to be on JJ and him.

Suppose you trade him, we can always try and sign him to a max deal in 2008 if we desire.

THe added benefit I keep trying to point out in trading him is it allows this team to tank like the Eistein’s in Boston who want Oden or Durant.

By PAul

January 31, 2007 08:10 AM | Link to this

Dap,

The draft is loaded this year. I’d trade just about anybody to get more picks in this draft.

By Don Ellis

January 31, 2007 09:14 AM | Link to this

Trading J.Smith is stupid…..We do need 2 All Stars…see all past NBA champs and name a team with only one All Star…can’t do t…I don’t think. But anyway….make a play for Garnett.

By Billy Knight

January 31, 2007 09:59 AM | Link to this

Yes I have seen Durant play. But calling him an all star already because he dominated Nebraska, Baylor, Colorado, Missouri, Ok St(3 overtimes help with the stats), oh and the powerhouse Centenary? How about his performance against LSU, Villinova? Can’t wait to see him in the tournament, then I will form an opinion of him.

While yes he could be the next Rasheed Wallace in 8 years(do we want to wait another 8 years???), but don’t ever put Jordan’s name in there. PLEEEASE. Even Lebron is not Jordan!

By Biff Booter

January 31, 2007 10:03 AM | Link to this

Wedgie a few points…

First no one is saying that BK is perfect. But he labors under what is clearly the worst ownership situation in the NBA and he inherited a talentless, old and expensive roster. To say the guy deserves to be fired is crazy talk. Who is going to replace him?

Two, the Hawks have absolutely been murdered by injuries this year. Look at the records by month, Nov 6-7, Dec 3-13, Jan 7-7 with a game left. It was really from mid-December to early January that the team tanked, going 1-12 during one stretch. That stretch coincided with Josh Smith and Tyronn Lue being out. Lue is an underrated difference maker for this team. He hits a lot of big shots and punishes the D for smothering JJ.

Third, it is way too early to make any judgements on Shelden Williams. No he is not a solution at the 5. All the scouting reports said that Shelden had about a 95% chance of turning into Antonio Davis but that he had no upside beyond that. Gay and Foye and all the other athletes, who were all playing 2 and 3, and would have rotted on our bench behind JJ, JS and JC. As bad as our interior D is this year it was terrible last year. We needed to beef up the front and because of the ownership situation Knight could not solve that problem in free agency. Antonio Davis has been helping teams win games for a long time in this league. I think it was the correct decision though I have been a bit disappointed with Shelden’s play. But the NBA is a hard league for rookies. Given his character and work ethic I think he is going to turn out just fine.

Fourth, regarding Marvin Williams. I was thinking today about with player he most reminded me of. It is not Garnett, Marvin is not lanky or bouncy enough for that and even as a rookie Garnett could D up. He certainly does not appear to be a traditional sit on the block, Karl Malone style physical presence at the 4. I think he reminds most of Rasheed Wallace, except without the nastiness. His shot, when he does not rush it, is smooth. He is unselfish almost to a fault. He does need to learn to play D but you know he had 1 year of college. The kid is 20 years old. I am willing to wait at least another year before passing judgement. Maybe he needs to develop a little bit of Sheed’s nasty. Sometimes he seems to lack passion.

Finally, Josh Smith is the real deal. I hope everyone sees that. This kid is spectacular. In two years Joe Johnson is going to be his sidekick. And he is from the ATL and by all accounts a great kid and a solid citizen.

Are we their yet? No, no, no. But the problems we have now are solvable.

The pieces are starting to fall into place here. Then that is the whole point this blog posting eh? The margin between the lottery and the playoffs is a pretty thin one.

By Anakin Joe

January 31, 2007 10:12 AM | Link to this

Ando, organic growth. If you have the youngest squad in the league, you have to expect that your improvement will principally come from guys individually getting better (what we’re seeing with Smith) as well as collectively playing better as a unit. Adding more youth only dilutes the chemistry factor and may not immediately improve the overall talent level. I’d use Marvin and some other assets to acquire a PG during the off season. The more I think about it, the more I want Jason Terry back in a Hawks uniform. He is a vocal leader and someone who would do for JJ what Lue did earlier in the season, provide a backcourt mate who can bury open shots and also hit the game-winner as well. JT, Cassell and Lue are all cut from the same mode, but obviously, JT is much younger. Maybe throw in Lue and Wright and bring back JT and Diop. Add Salim if neccessary and sign someone like Julius Hodge or Dermarr Johnson to play 4-6 minutes behind JJ. More than a talent upgrade, this team needs to mature and acquire a veteran leader who will play at least 30 minutes and be viewed as one of the better players on the team. That, IMHO, is far more important than a #15 pick.

By roan st

January 31, 2007 10:52 AM | Link to this

I think billy’s first two drafts were pretty darn good. No one can really argue to much about diaw, chills, and josh smith. It has been the last two that should get him terminated. Marvin williams is never going to be the big star that he was promoted to be. With two solid young wings on board and a deep point guard draft billy selects another wing player. I’m sorry but I just don’t see the great potential that everyone else is seeing in marvin williams. Someone out there please point out to me what is so great about this guy. What am I missing? Then in this years draft he selects an undersized slow footed post player with the fifth overall pick. Shelden willimas will be a lifetime role player. How great would it be to have a backcourt of roy and johnson? Both can handle the bb and score. Add a big in the middle and all of a sudden you have a decent basketball team. Now we must secure a big and a point guard to have a decent team.

By honest_abe

January 31, 2007 11:08 AM | Link to this

lets first realize marv’s ceiling isn’t that high( he can be good he’s just not going to be an elite superstar in the league)… the best comparison for marv is rashard lewis. a tall lanky 6’9 player that spends more time shooting jump shots than around the basket. they have the ability to haul in double digit rebounds.. but marv is so slow with his duck feet, waddling on and off the court…

anyways.. i’ll be at the game tonight… so if you’re going to be there… i’ll be the crazy drunk korean in club level..

say hello

By Dan

January 31, 2007 11:34 AM | Link to this

I don’t blame the Magic fans for booing Howard. His missed free throws killed them in Friday’s game. If he wants to be a star, he has to make those. I think the fans were right to get on his case. Doesn’t mean that they don’t like him or appreciate him. Just means that they expect more from him, and they should. As my dad always says, no one is above an a** kicking.

I hope the Hawks can get a win tonight. It might be the last one for sometime. That February schedule is brutal!! It will be a long month for us Hawks fans.

By Dee

January 31, 2007 12:53 PM | Link to this

Actually, I think the Hawks have a GREAT chance of winning in Feb..they play better with good teams than teams whose record are under theirs..GO HAWKS!!

By Jrock

January 31, 2007 01:43 PM | Link to this

I keep hearing the draft is loaded this year.If the Hawks can’t get Oden no one else jumps out at me.Brandon Wright& Noah score on dunks but show no post moves.Neither of them are starting centers in the league next season. Kevin durant doesn’t fit with this group, he is a SF.Aaron Gray can score but I’ve never seen him play defense like Oden or Noah.If the hawks get the second overall pick i would trade it and the #17 pick plus Marvin and go after Kevin Garnett. NBAdraft.net has the hawks taking Acie Law out of Texas A&M with the #17 pick.That is not going to help the hawks at all.I have watched him play but he is more of a scoring guard than anything.We keep hearing this team has no leadership.Acie Law is not the answer.Why would the Suns trade there pick to us when they could have Al Horford,Aaron Gray,Julian Wright,etc.We have to stop thinking about bringing in young players and think of veterens who can lead these youngsters(P.Gasol,M.Bibby,C.Billups).Go Hawks!!

By Paul

January 31, 2007 03:28 PM | Link to this

JRock There are two reasons the Suns would want to trade with us.

Take Banks off their hands and I think they will throw us back the first we traded them and another first for JSmith. They have 3 firsts next year including Clevelands. I’d like to get all 3 firsts from them in this deep draft but would settle for Cleveland’s and our pick back.

By Paul

January 31, 2007 03:33 PM | Link to this

JRock Kevin durant doesn’t fit with this group

yeah, and Jordan didn’t fit what Portland needed at the time and cost them at least as many Championships as the Bulls won.

By OmniHawk

January 31, 2007 03:39 PM | Link to this

Calling Durant “hall of fame talent” is so premature it is laughable. He MIGHT turn out to be productive in this league, but JSmith already is. I wouldn’t trade him for Durant straight up, much less for a couple of ping pong balls that might or might not land him anyway.

And with the Hawks track record of drafting supposed “can’t miss” players, you can’t help but be a little skeptical.

By Jrock

January 31, 2007 04:08 PM | Link to this

Not another Jordan comparison!Watch Durant and tell me if he plays defense.

By HB Ando

January 31, 2007 04:35 PM | Link to this

I’m exhausted reading all these delusional opinions. I’ll say it again, Billy Knight has used 3 top-6 picks to get the uncertain potential of Marvin (who still may ceiling at the Harrington he replaced), and two guys who project to be back ups for the foreseeable future in Atlanta, Shelden and Childress.

Let me go from post to post:

Mavid, you are correct that I projected that either Smith or Williams will ultimately go. But I’ve said a million times that it is DUE to the lack of the five we need. Again, with this ownership group hamstrung, quality fives nearly impossible to get via trade, and the reality that no good five is coming here as a free agent, unless he’s grossly overpaid, where do you get that five? Answer is you package one of your very talented 3’s, along with whatever you have to, to get one, or a draft pick which nets you one. And the fact that a need for a five, that can anchor the paint, was clearly obvious, if you were planning on pairing Josh and Marvin together, for the future, is the very reason Billy should have sought out such a prospect in the last draft. As I’ve said a million other times (since before the draft), why draft Shelden, who can only play the four, if you intend to play Josh and Marvin as tandem forwards? Duh?

The idea that Billy Knight has done a good job is simply ludicrous. Every pick he has made, he passed on a player that most insiders had rated over the one he chose (Deng and Igoudala over Childress, everyone in the lottery over Shelden, Monta Ellis over Salim, Ivey over Duhon, and passing on Paul or Williams to get Marvin, when he already had Childress, Smith and Harrington). I don’t care how loud the few myopic Atlanta voices say it, Billy is a bad GM, and no one outside of this town disagrees. He’s ignored the PG position to an absolute fault, and then overspent on a career backup, with a history of injury problems, who turns out to have a persistent, long-term knee condition that will impact the next 5 years, and $28 million we just gave away.

Why would Phoenix give us back our pick to get a guy that plays the same position (only not nearly as well) as Marion? They need one more talented big man, to ease the load on Stoudemire, and they’re looking at potentially running the table over the next 3-4 years. If they want veteran help, they can trade that pick to a team with a big man, who wants to get younger (maybe even Memphis, and Gasol). There’s just no logic to the idea that Phoenix would give us our pick back, for Smith. And Billy would simply look like the dumbass he is, for doing it (“We over paid you for Johnson, when we didn’t have to give you anything. Now we’ll give you an emerging all-star to get what was our original pick, back” Genius!).

Shelden Williams is a horrible pick at #5. Even if he turns into Antonio Davis, Davis was an end of the first round player, which is where you’re supposed to find solid interior role players (see Paul Millsap, #50 overall, who’s a far more talented player, right now, than Shelden, who we passed not once, but twice). Watch Millsap’s numbers over the next 4-6 weeks (the length of time Boozer is expected to be out). Shelden has no upside. He entered the league at 23 years old. There’s not a scout in the league that sees upside there. He’s a one-position, undersized PF, who lacks mobility and handle. He would have been a good pick from the middle to late first round, given how weak the draft was. But you’re supposed to seek out a player with the potential to start for 10 years when you’re picking in the top five. I’ll bet any of you, any amount of money, that he does not start 10 years in this league. You must sign a binding agreement with me for this bet, so you can be accountable for this ongoing nonsense about Shelden being a good pick, so I can collect in a few years (of him being a back up every year). You can get Danny Fortson, right now, for a bag of Dorito’s, and Shelden isn’t half of the rebounder that Fortson is. And I can’t stand Fortson, but almost every team has a guy who can do what Shelden does, and almost none of them wasted a top pick on that guy. Haslem was an undrafted free agent, and he’s way better than Shelden. David Lee was a second round pick. Better. Melvin Ely can’t get off the bench in Charlotte, and I’d take him over Shelden, right now. PJ Brown is 71 years old, and he’s better.

Look, this is wholly unfair to Shelden Williams, because it’s not his fault that Billy wasted a fifth pick on a guy who wasn’t talented enough to justify it. He’ll have a long career. But he was supposed to step in and contribute starters’ numbers right away, because it was understood that what you saw was what you would get. His immediate impact, in helping this team make the playoffs, was the logic behind not drafting a player who might develop, like an O’Bryant. He simply hasn’t performed up to what this franchise tried to sell it’s fans, on draft day. And that was expected by me and quite a few other people. He’s been just what I said from the get go. Biff says character and work ethic will win out. Sorry, but when you’re a 6’7 1/2” PF, with virtually no lateral movement or explosiveness, as well as no handle or first step, character and work ethic aren’t going to make up for the facts. Undersized and underwhelming.

Ray, you’re way off on Oden. He’s got more game than Shaq did as a freshmen. The difference is the wrist, and the fact that he’s deferring to his teammates. Every scout on the planet views him as can’t miss, as the next dominant center. The only reason Garnett lasted until the fifth pick, is that back then no one had the guts to take a high schooler first. But again, you’ve mis-characterized his development in the “KG” as hit or miss. It wasn’t. Not by a long shot.

Durant and Oden are both “can’t miss”. It’s just bizarre to see someone suggest that there are questions about Durant’s legitimacy. He’s half-way through his freshman year, and he’s averaging 24 points and 11 boards playing against the best competition in the country. He’s a legitimate candidate for player of the year, based on what I’ve read from opposing coaches in the Big-12. Please, some one with a penchant for statistics, who’s the last true freshman, playing in one of the major conferences, who averaged 24 and 11?

Joe, organic growth? Sounds like you’ve been smoking the product of such philosophies. Which young point guard and young center do you see organically growing into legitimate starters on this squad? Where are the 1 and 5 in such a scenario? Terry? Terry would trade his new contract to Cuban NOT to come back to Atlanta. Last time I checked, the Mavs have Howard and Dirk playing at the forward positions. Not sure how a Marvin for Terry deal would make much sense to the Mavs. I don’t care how long and bouncy Jones is, he’s a long way from being able to compete, night in and night out, against starting-caliber NBA big men. He has very limited feel and fundamentals. He’s about 30-40 pounds shy of viable. He may, MAY, turn into a legitimate big man. But it won’t happen any quicker than the development of one of the more polished, physically imposing bigs, rated in the upcoming lottery. You don’t want to get younger, but the bigs on the list are simply better, right now, than the guys we have playing the five. It’s appearing more and more that Zaza is not the answer. Wright is a back-up, nearing the end of his run. Shelden is….well, don’t get me started again.

So, I ask again, how do we REALISTICALLY add a legitimate big man to this roster? Because without one, all the organic improvement of Josh, Josh and Marvin isn’t going to stop teams from pounding us to death in the paint. Where is the “organically grown” PG of the future here?

Folks pointing to this roster, this franchise, as clearly on an upward arc, are simply fooling themselves. This is a badly imbalanced roster, with a poor GM, and a lame duck ownership.

THERE WILL BE NO SUBSTANTIVE MOVES THIS SEASON. UNRESOLVED OWNERSHIP DRAMA RUNS INTO THE SUMMER, ELIMINATING OUR ABILITY TO PURSUE QUALITY FREE AGENTS, BASED ON LEGAL RESTRICTIONS. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO IMPROVE THIS ROSTER, LEGITIMATELY, THAN TO HOPE THAT WE KEEP THAT TOP-3 PICK. IF WE DO NOT, YOU WILL SEE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME FLAWED, IMBALANCED ROSTER, BEGINNING NEXT SEASON.

If someone can explain to me a realistic alternative, I’m listening. But trade ideas are invalid, when ownership is on lock down from making any transactions with long-term implications for what may be Belkin’s team. That same issue precludes us from spending what it would take to seek out a free agent big man of note. So, to summarize, no freedom to trade, and take on financial liabilities for future ownership, no ability to spend, and take on financial liabilities for future ownership, and no lottery pick this summer means more of the same for as far as the eye can see.

And, lastly, given the joke that is the Spirit ownership group, I think it’s safe to say that when Josh Smith and Dwight Howard talk about playing together, they’re thinking about Josh trying to force his way to sunny Orlando, not the other way around.

Today’s posts have taken many steps backwards, as far as a realistic handle on the big picture here. Viewing this situation with optimism is either cluelessness, or just another drop in from the Hawks marketing staff (we know you guys are out there, and we know you’re just trying to do your job).

Feel free to fire away. You’ll just be shooting the messenger. Which is what I’ve been getting for a year and a half here, despite being consistently right about the state of affairs (and despite opinions to the contrary, I’d rather be wrong and have hope, than right and feel so low about the Atlanta Hawks).