AJC > Sports > Hawks > Blog > Archives > 2006 > November > 22 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USFirst look at misfiring Pistons
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Forgive whatever comes below, for I am in a Claritin-induced haze right now that I’ll be lucky to shake by halftime of tonight’s Hawks-Pistons game. Seriously, though, I’ve been looking forward to this game for several reasons.
I’m more than curious to see what kind of energy the Hawks start the game with. Their sluggish starts in their past three games/losses had to serve as the proper wake up call. The Pistons, who are playing better of late, will bury them if they come out slow again.
Speaking of the Pistons, they’re actually the team that has me most interested about tonight’s game. This is my first eye-balling of these guys sans Big Ben (Wallace). Before the season began I was sure they’d be able to handle things just fine without him.
But their demeanor without him has certainly changed. They’re not the same intimidating force they were when Big Ben was patrolling the middle (on both ends of the floor). No one had delusions about Nazr Mohammed being any sort of upgrade over Big Ben, except maybe on the offensive end of the floor. But he’s led the Pistons in rebounding just once so far and his numbers (6.6 points, 5.6 rebounds and 1.4 blocks and 20 minutes a night) are pedestrian, at best. That puts the rest of the load on the Pistons’ three other All-Stars — Rasheed Wallace, Rip Hamilton, Chauncey Billups — and Tayshaun Prince, the guy who probably should have been an All-Star last season.
A 6-5 record at this stage of the season is probably not what the Pistons had in mind. But their losses have come to Milwaukee, at Utah, at Sacramento and at Golden State and at home to a quality New Orleans Hornets squad. They’ve beaten Boston, Memphis, the Lakers, Washington, Houston and Philadelphia. So it’s hard to gauge what type of team Detroit really has right now.
The Hawks presented them with matchup nightmares last season, despite losing the season series 1-3. That was with Big Ben. It remains to be seen how they’ll match up against them now. But if the Hawks play the way they’ve shown they can earlier this season, a quality showing or win tonight would tell me omething about what type of team they might have the potential to become.
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Comments
By bob ray
November 22, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this
when is marvin williams expected to return?
By Tyger
November 22, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this
Hawks need a win in the worse way. I dont care who it comes against. They have played the Pistons well in the past but thats irrelevant.
They are still the Championship caliber Pistons and we are the 26 win Hawks. We have the ability to steal a win here, but all cylinders have to click. They cannot rely on JJ alone.
JSmoove has to play with his head or he will be schooled by Tayshawn. In fact, he could learn alot from Prince tonight, another athletic freak but who does have the complete package. Prince lets the game come to him rather than forcing the issue like Smoove.
Pistons have arguably the best backcourt in the NBA. And All-stars Prince and Rasheed on the wings. Nazr’s no Big Ben, but we wont have a significant advantage there.
Hopefully, or bench depth will be the difference. They have McDyess but not much else, whereas, we have countless options if only the coach would use them.
By Marvin Williams
November 22, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this
Not tonight genius!
By Gutz
November 22, 2006 04:44 PM | Link to this
Hawks have got to come out and bring it tonight period!! Detroit just played a road game last night in Philly and should be a little tired while we have had 3 days rest. We have to win this game!! We need to right the ship after losing those last 3 home games that should have been wins. I hope Smoove can get it together and quit shooting 3’s the whole game and making stupid mistakes. I’m looking for Salim to have a breakout shooting night as well since he will play more with Chill being out too. Can we just get healthy for a change!
By zz
November 22, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this
we have flip murray too, and kind of jason maxiell off the bench
By Gutz
November 22, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this
Both of those guys suck though so who cares!
By jhan
November 22, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this
Tyger, do we really have countless options off the bench? Yes, if you are just counting bodies. No, if you are actually talking about quality NBA players.
By Michael Nissenfeld
November 22, 2006 07:07 PM | Link to this
Tonight against the Pistons, I do not want to hear after the game that this was a “Moral Victory”. Moral victories equals a loss. The Pistons had a semi-hard game last night in Philadelphia and had to travel back to Detroit. The Hawks have young legs and must take the ball to the hoop tonight instead of settling for Josh Smith 3 pointers.
Go Hawks!!!
By HB Ando
November 22, 2006 09:36 PM | Link to this
Why is it that successful franchises always seem to make the clever moves? Anybody noticed that Utah is 10-1, and leading the Western Conference? While some folks here have called Billy Knight’s draft choices, in Shelden and Soloman, strong, for supposedly addressing our immediate, and hopefully, future needs, in the post, the Jazz selected Paul Millsap, a PF with a similar build to Williams, after both of the Hawk’s picks were off the board. Millsap’s averages over the last five games? 14 points, 7 boards, 1.2 steals and 2 blocks, with 70% shooting from the floor.
So how is it that the Jazz got the interior presence they needed in the middle of the 2nd round, while we got Shelden and Soloman? It should be noted that Millsap has generated those numbers playing behind the very productive combo of Okur and Boozer. I have to continue to laugh at certain folks’ continued insistence that Billy Knight is a great talent evaluator. Millsap is better than either of Billy’s picks (Shelden now has 4 blocks, in 8 and a half games). Where was Billy’s superior vision when he passed on Millsap? Oh yeah, Utah has a great coach too. Better front office decisions + better coaching = winning results.
Anybody had a Cenk sighting this season? How about David Anderson? Royal Ivey?! Jeesh…….
By HB Ando
November 22, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this
Shelden gets his fifth block of the season! Wouldn’t want the average to drop below .5 per game, now would we.
These just aren’t the same Pistons without Big Ben. I told SS, in e-mail discussions, that I disagreed with his projection that Detroit was still legitimate atop the East. ‘Course I also said that the Bulls would win the east, and right now they are really struggling.
When does Marvin get back? I’m ready to see him start his sophomore season.
By HB Ando
November 22, 2006 09:48 PM | Link to this
Was that Shelden Williams or George Gervin, with the 8-foot finger roll off the glass?
By Clyde
November 22, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this
All I know is Josh Smith only had one 3 point attempt and we still lost. And that 3 was in garbage time.
FIRE BILLY AND WOODY
By Wedgie Evans
November 22, 2006 10:31 PM | Link to this
Decent game for Shelden. Nice to see Josh Smith not jacking up 3’s all day, but he needs the Jarrett Jack treatment — get him a basketball, make him dribble it 24/7… even when he’s on the plane, at the airport, whatever. The guy’s handles need major work if he ever wants to be a consistent player.
This team is not gonna win many games without Josh Childress’s smarts, defense, and energy. Hope he gets back soon.
By Tyger
November 22, 2006 11:31 PM | Link to this
Josh Smith blows another one.
How much more does it take until the Coach is given the reigns to shut him down?
Would Pat Riley, Nellie or Popovich allow a unproven player to continually disregard direct instruction and sabatoge game after game?
This is the 4th loss in a row directly due directly to his insistence on being a jump shooter. He’s not even trying to penetrate. He shot so badly, one went off the top of the backboard.
Coach Woody is giving away his job to JSmoove. And his defense, Tashaun Prince scored most of his points in the 4th qtr. on layups and tip-ins, did he also forget how to block out. The kid needs testing, I think he’s mentally challenged.
What happened to all that crap about earning your minutes this year, appears to me that Freije deserves the bigger minutes.
By mavid
November 23, 2006 02:21 AM | Link to this
OK
so what is both really hopeful and frustrating at the same time is that we are sooo close in all these games.
Its hopeful because we are competing with everyone we are playing. Arguably, with everyone healthy (marvin, speedy, chill) we could easily be 6-3 right now. So, the fact that we are competing in all these games without them is key.
But, its extremely frustrating at the same time.
I’ll say it again. I have a lot of faith in Marvin’s abilities. I think a lot of you will be pleasantly suprised about how he preforms later this season… although it naturally will take him a few weeks to get back in the groove.
By JB
November 23, 2006 04:27 AM | Link to this
I think my expectations, fueled by the early run, were that this year was gonna be Marvin’s time & Josh’s time to come out. That may still happen, but it’s looking like later if at all, rather than early.
I do agree that Josh is gonna need to work on ball-handling in a major way before he can excel. He looks frustrated. And he IS trying to drive, and sometimes good things come from that, like the dish to JJ in the corner for 3.
What REALLY ticked me off was the failure to body up and box out on the defensive end. That killed us at the end. They played physically the second half, and we didn’t. And I’m not buying coach’s song about not enough bodies. As someone pointed out, they had a tough game last night, and we’re the youngest team in the league, by far.
By ray
November 23, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this
How annoying. Do we know anything about defensive rebounding? We allowed so many offensive rebound tip-ins it was ridiculous. Smooth didn’t try as many deep perimeter shots, but he is STILL not trying to slash to the basket enough. Shelden actually put up some good numbers last night, although he looked SO uncomfortable and lost on that one play that he still somehow managed to turn into a funky looking layup. I did notice on several series that when the “give it to JJ” play was being thwarted, almost everybody except Lue was trying to get rid of the ball as if it were a hot potato. That has to stop. Heck, run plays for Salim, he DOES want to shoot you know…
Blocking out and preventing those in-close offensive rebounds. Hitting some damn free throws. Making smart, simple passes to avoid turning the ball over. These are things that are really losing the games for us and have to be worked on in practice. But it can’t stop there, the guys have to execute on the court or it is all for nothing.
For those who feel that Josh Smith should be benched for his uninspiring play, consider his replacements. Marvin isn’t ready to play yet, Chill is out with a hurt foot (or I’d be yellin’ for them to start HIM for 35-40 minutes) and you are left with Freije and Solomon. I’m not saying that Josh can’t be benched, I’m saying consider all the implications. Solomon is quite raw, and I’m not sure what kind of production we’d get out of Freije with extended minutes. Believe me, Smith frustrates me as much as anyone when he’s not playing well. He DID, however show some glimpses of what he can be if he crashes the boards as hard as he did on a couple of possessions. We just need him to do that ALL the time.
Did anyone notice how calm the Pistons were when we had them down by 11? What does that tell you? It tells me they have confidence in what they can do, and they never seemed to force anything. We forced a lot of things, lost the lead, and then fell behind while Detroit calmly did what they had to do and collected the win.
By Clyde
November 23, 2006 12:16 PM | Link to this
Josh Smith can’t bethe only one we cnt on for rebounds. How bout Zaza. When I watch the Hawks play I wonder if he knows hows how to box out.
FIRE BILLY AND WOODY
By Astro Joe
November 23, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this
Happy Turkey Day to all of you guys out there. Special shout-out to those who are actually cooking and not just kicking back and eating. For those not in the city, let me tease you by saying hat the weather is about 68-degrees, bright and sunny. I’m enjoying my deck in November as I have taken the bird outside to be smoked.
Oh and Ando, 20 & 13 against a vet front line a week after pulling down 15 boards. Don’t choke on that crow, oops, I mean turkey.
By Wedgie Evans
November 23, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this
The Pistons set a season-high with 18 offensive boards in their win over the Hawks on Wednesday.
It doesn’t matter how good your defense is, if you can’t finish it off by getting the board you might as well not play defense at all.
Happy Thanksgiving.
By reese
November 23, 2006 05:52 PM | Link to this
Happy thanksgiving to all. I missed the game the other night. But still want to comment.
I’m watching the 1987 lakers vs boston championship series game on NBA TV and I just saw the following that Atlanta has to adhere to if they ever want to be considered a defensive team.
Worthy is covering bird and bird drives by him. Cooper and Magic each come to help and attempt to block the shot. Cooper succeeds. But, even if he missed, Kareem was coming to help as well.
My point is that we can’t keep harping on Josh Smith for not playing his man tough on defense. He has to get help when his man goes by him. That means that Joe Johnson, T Lue, Zaza and Shelden have to recognize when Josh is being beat and adjust to help. Then Josh must rotate back to take an open man or rebound.
I see that zaza and josh missed a lot of shots in the last game. But the good part is that they kept shooting.
It is up to woodson to use his bench when he sees that his starters are not succeeding. If the starters are on the floor, they must keep shooting.
Its obvious that Woodson does not have confidence in his bench and will continue to play JJ, JSmith and zaza heavy minutes.
If I’m not mistaken, this is the first game in which JSmith did not block a shot. I hope that his shooting woes are not affecting his defensive effort.
By RYAN
November 24, 2006 07:49 AM | Link to this
PLEASE WOODY LET SALIM PLAY AND RUN PLAYS 4 HIM. HE’S A STAR READY TO BE BORN COACH WOODSON.
By Hawk Sunday Morning Coach
November 24, 2006 08:42 AM | Link to this
I agree with Reese. The Hawks need to get better at team defense and rebounding. These are constants that sustain an 82 game schedule. In four wins players off the ball were stepping to the ball as it came at them. In recent losses you can see late 4th quarter defense stepping back in their efforts with help defense. Pathetic results offense gets to the hole, offense gets the foul or rebound.
By The Flash
November 24, 2006 11:49 AM | Link to this
Detroit on any given night is extremely tough. Just not on most all nights like they used to be. They lost that before they lost Ben. They lost that when they dumped Larry. There was an intangible that made them a team first, ego-driven millionares second.
Dumars pandered to the ego-driven millionare in his players when he dumped Larry, and the same forces were at play when the likes of Billips, Rip, and Sheed started undervaluing Big Ben. That’s right, they stopped caring whether Ben felt as valued on both ends as he did under Larry; unacceptible to Ben and he was gone.
They still are playing without that intangible. Therefore, as talented as the big four are, and some of the other guys that they have are (I love that manchild 6’8” second year guy they have), they are performers and not a team; push come to shove, they can be had.
That said, on any given night they are still great. My book, you stop Sheed at all costs. You do that, he will implode. Billips and Rip will care not one whit if Sheed is taken out of the offensive flow; he will know it; can we say, “sit down strike” boys and girls? You do that and the team defense of Detroit, and there is no other kind, is gone. Done.
Anybody can beat a team of all stars. Heck, even a team from Greece did it.
By Ken Strickland
November 24, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this
I believe there is a reason the NBA requires all teams to play 82 games. Based on 2nd half performances, the last 2yrs, we have a lot to look forward to. Last yr, most pre-allstar defeats were blowouts, while we were competitive in most post allstar defeats.
This yr, we’ve been more than just competitive. We have been in position to win every game played, except the opener. Everyone has seen how we could easily have only one defeat. We are playing with one starter out, one trying to work his way into playing shape and six(6)new roster additions. This losing streak coinsides with the loss of the teams 2nd most versatile and savy player, Josh Childress.
These injuries have allowed SWilliams more playing time, especially in key situations. With this time, he is starting to demonstrate his ability to rebound, big time at both ends of the court, and score. When all of the pieces are in place, our bench will be stronger with the new players getting experience with extended playing time. This team might not make the playoffs this yr, but they will certainly determine who does. GO HAWKS!!!!!