Hawks

By Spud Webb

November 16, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

Bet all of Joe Johnson’s money on Michagan getting 6 1/2. DO IT! Michagan will dominate like Matt Freije against anyone in the NBA! Freijeeeee!!!

By The Flash

November 16, 2006 04:48 PM | Link to this

Sekou, you want “nastiness,” “bangers”, hire bobbyboy; he’ll hit them guys upside the head a few times, be the “General” and all, and you’ll get your bangers.

No wonder you’re looking forward to Ohio State/ Michigan.

Me, give me the art and grace of the real game any day. And, why do you need banging. Losing 101-103, when you had the looks to win, seems like we need some tweaking here, getting Z and Josh some better touches, same with SW.

Sounds to me that the offense needs to be focusing more on distributing opportunities; can’t call the “team” successful if some of the guys are underproducing. So the onus is on everyone if good scoring chances aren’t being created.

Doc says that Smooth could have been catching 3 feet closer. If so, and that is the concept that Woody is after, you sit Smooth down. Or, you have him play the 4 where he can use his quicks and agility against bigger guys, as opposed to being on the short end of quicks against other 3s.

Z is a euro/soccer big, who can add much to the game just the way he is; no need to try to make him into something he’s not.

Who knows. Banging bores me (watch it thinkingman, you know that I didn’t mean it that way).

By tyger

November 16, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

Last two games easily within reach. Hawks have gotten away from what got them the good start. No interior defense or inside scoring - compare ZaZa’s production from the first two weeks to the past two games.

He needs to be involved early, last game they repeatedly tried to get JJ going and fell behind by 10, nobody else touched the ball.

If we get ZaZa going, then we play inside-out, you force the defense to compact, but he didnt get any shots, likewise against the Sonics.

Woodson has Salim and Freije on the bench and refuses to use them. We have other players that CAN shoot, but if the Coach refuses to play them then???

What happened to the interior defense? It’s been absent, and the rotation is too short. Games aren’t that tight early on that these guys can’t see the floor for a minute or two to get involved.

Yet, however, we expect Salim to save the day late when he hasn’t played in two weeks. Duh???? Why can’t Solomon get a minute or two?

What’s wrong with the winning formula against Cleveland, everybody played and played well.

Teams aren’t going to just let JJ beat them, Woody has to adjust and use the depth we’ve acquired. He CANNOT and I repeat CANNOT play 40 mpg all season, he’s going to get seriously hurt and the season will be over.

Woody has to play the other guys period end of story, he has to get Salim ready, he has to play Freije, Jsmoove has to stop shooting 3s, Lorenzen and Solomon have to play more.

We’re falling into the same rut, and its a reflection of the Coach. He still wants to play JJ and ZZ the whole game, despite having all this talent around him.

Ty Lue stepped up since Saturday, exactly what he’s supposed to, he has to keep the defense honest and protect the ball, but it cant keep coming down to the last shot. We have to learn to choke teams out when we have the lead.

Also, the refs made some horrific mistakes…Michael Redd literally bunny hopped and their tightening down on travels and carries…

I’m not happy, this isnt acceptable.

By Clyde

November 16, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

We don’t need bangers. I’m 5-9 and I can bang wit the big boys. What we need is more shot blocking. More knocking folks to the ground for coming in the lane. More protection of the paint. We need more of this production in these areas expecially from the 5 position. I ain’t gonna name no names.

And back to my Jsmooth 3 stats I saw he has a better percentage than some more all-star caliber players.

Mike Bibby 12-23 31.6% Chauncey Billups 11-39 28.2% Tracy McGrady 10-34 29.4% Baron Davis 10-35 28.6%

And another notible is the smooth shooting Ray Allen. His % is better than Jsmooth’s but by only 2 percentage points. Jsmooth is at 33.3% while Ray Allen is 24-68 35.3%.

Not bad for a player trying to develop his outside shot.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By mykhalc

November 16, 2006 06:01 PM | Link to this

CLYDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE,LOL but RAY does not take 50%, or 40%, or 30% of his shots from behind the line. ONLY 25% of his shots are 3pt shots. even a deadly shooter like him knows that you gotta step inside the line 75% of the time. it’s SMART BB!!! and it’s even SMARTER if JS does it!!!

By Kappy

November 16, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

Everyone settle down. If I had told all of you that before the season, this team will be 4-3 in their first 7 games, you all would have taken it.

By mykhalc

November 16, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

CLYDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE,LOL but RAY does not take 50%, or 40%, or 30% of his shots from behind the line. ONLY 25% of his shots are 3pt shots. even a deadly shooter like him knows that you gotta step inside the line 75% of the time. it’s SMART BB!!! and it’s even SMARTER if JS does it!!!

By John D.

November 16, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

Some players have a “dribble range” like they have a shooting range. Nique started to look uncomfortable to me after 3-4 dribbles (now he could cover a lot of floor in those) but in the half-court he handled the ball very, very well.

33.3% from 3-point range is the same as 50% from 2-point and there are only 2 players over 50% from 2-point range on the team.

JSmith is 20 years old; give him a bit of a break. Would hate to see all this negativity harm him here to the point he moved on to an all-star career on another team. He is the 4th leading scorer, tied for the lead in rebounding, 3rd in assists, 2nd in steals, and leads in blocks (double the next highest) – and is still only 20 years old. In the Seattle game he gave up the ball outside the free throw line to a guard but still ran him down in the open floor and saved a lay-up. Next offensive series he ran down another guard on the break, turnover or long rebound, and saved another lay-up. There are not many players in the league with that ability and desire. He moves much faster than he appears due to his loping manner and long stride, otherwise he could not catch the guards from behind as often as he does.

How about steals/turnovers? JJ is –12, Zaza is –13, Lue is –6, JC is –4, Speedy is –5 and Josh Smith is –7. Hard to quantify these numbers without touches included but the total is acceptable compared to the others. And Josh is only 20 years old, oh - I already mentioned that.

One day we will look upon this time as well spent in the development of an outstanding player.

By neil

November 16, 2006 06:37 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Just curious about the progress of Marvin Williams. How close is he to returning?

By GuyFromUruguay

November 16, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this

You’re forgetting something when you factor in the % from 3-point and driving inside: free throws. You don’t get free throws very often when camping at the 3-point line, and they are a real difference maker.

I agree that Josh is doing OK from the 3-point line, although you compared him to Billups & McGrady, which are both struggling this season, and Baron Davis which is a ball hog. And all 3 lead their teams which means taking bad shots sometimes (plays made for them, desperation endgame shots).

Being 20 and drafted from high school, it’s ok for him to make those mistakes but I hope the coach can show him when to shoot threes and when not to. I don’t mind him receiving from a JJ or Lue or maybe Claxton driving and shooting a 3, but I saw him try the 3 instead of driving to the basket quite a few times the games I could get on TV.

By GuyFromUruguay

November 16, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this

BTW, this is “all about Josh”, but lets not forget the other players. Lue is playing amazing right now, Zaza should get more touches (and Woodson could make some other offensive sets and adjustments), I didn’t see much of Shelden but I’d really want to, his effort the few times I did see him was A+ and the stat lines are always impressive (good FG%, tons of rebounds). JJ should get some rest, but I’d take the wins right now. I really hope that Marvin can show what he did in the Vegas camp. Childress is one of the reasons the Hawks are 4-3, another player doing very well. And hopefully the coaches can use the surprising depth to adjust matchups accordingly, and use Bozeman, Salim & Freije more. Woodson & Josh Smith are the easier guys to criticize, but really, they should all be praised for the recent results & effort (even in the close losses)

By reese

November 16, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this

Like I said last year, Josh Smith keep shooting the ball. This kid plays too hard on the defensive end to restrict his offense. Lets continue to introduce new facets to his offensive game (ball handling, pick and roll, fade aways, use of both hands when dribbling/shooting, movement without the ball, plays called specifically from him that utilizes items I just mentioned, etc).

Clyde it looks like I transfered a lot of rage onto you when I suggested that Josh Smith play some point guard in practice. I still stand by my statement in order to improve is overall offensive game.

Again, I repeat, the team is playing well with Josh taking those shots. Therefore, the question is not on limiting his growth, but why doesn’t woody place a defensive lineup on the floor late in the game when trying to stop a game winning drive.

If the answer is, he is placing a defensive team on the floor; then we better start blowing some teams out and avoid close games.

By Steve T

November 16, 2006 07:42 PM | Link to this

Billy Knight stated that Joe Johnson was like Larry Bird to this team. Billy appears to be on target. Since this is the case, the Hawks need a McHale to JJ’s Bird. The Hawks could have won those two games if they had a big man that score at will in the paint.

The next thing they need to work on is Free Throw shooting.

By AJW

November 16, 2006 07:42 PM | Link to this

WE just played 2 teams that a very similar. They both have 2 players that are great shooters from the arc. Our defense was adjusting towards the arc in order to make sure they didn’t get off too much. This left our interior wide open. Most nights we are not going to be facing outside sharp shooters like Redd and Allen. Also, even though Speedy has made many shots, we clearly miss him. Before losing him our offense wasn’t as stagnant, and our guard defense was much better. Overall, we don’t have a championship contending team, but we sure are exciting to watch. The Lenny Wilkens days were winners, but man we were boring to watch. I think we are on the right track here today. Go Hawks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By hawksfansince68

November 16, 2006 10:36 PM | Link to this

We just got to live with what we got til marvin comes back. Then we move smoov to th e 4 and the defense and offense will improve along with the depth by bringing sheldon off the bench. and may i remind yall about no al harrington is addition by subtraction. its called team chemistry

By ray

November 16, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this

Ando and Abe. Keep bringing it. Nice posts on the last blog.

Clyde, I disagree with you, although mildly. I think it’s still too early to know for sure whether Smith is doing the right thing out there. However, your comparisons with other players as far as stats (3 point shooting, FG%, etc) are flawed because of two simple things. Those players you mentioned: Dirk Nowitzki, Dwayne Wade, Baron Davis, Chauncey Billups, Ray Allen…they all possess and have demonstrated the ability to carry their respective teams. Some have the ability more than others (Wade and Nowitzki more so than the others), but all of the above have the ability to do so if only for short periods of time. Being the man means taking those shots, whether you miss or make them. Smith does not have to be the man. And he won’t be if he keeps playing like this. Secondly, all those players have other ways of scoring, most notably getting to the free throw line. If you want to do a comparison, how’s this: free throws- made/attempted: Ray Allen (42-47), Baron Davis (39-57), Chauncey Billups (55-62), DWade (55-67), Dirk Nowitzki (51-56), and Josh Smith (22-33). See the difference. Not only that, but each of these guys, even the ball-hogging Baron Davis can either make his teammates better and find other ways to be significantly effective (a couple blocks and a dunk just ain’t gonna cut it, Solomon Jones can do that) or they shoulder enough of the load to help the team win. Josh looks lost out there and looks down to see if the ball is still there when he dribbles most of the time. That’s what the fuss is about. If Josh is better than what he has shown us, he needs to develop his confidence and get on the ball. I’m sorry, but blaming Woody is a half measure at best. No coach on this earth can make a player do anything he doesn’t want to or simply can’t do. It’s all in his head, and no one can get in that head but him. And in the NBA is not where you learn how to dribble. None of the guys you listed are as athletic as Smith. But they have the necessary skills to get a job done. Developing an all around game assumes that you have at least many of the fundamentals down pat. I sincerely hope things get much better for Smith. And like I said, it’s early.

On the flip side, Marvin Williams already has the ball-handling and shooting skills. We really need to see what he can do this season. Childress is really doing his thing and seems to have an abundance of basketball smarts. Imagine if Smith was playing with such energy and abandon. Marvin is chomping at the bit and has the game…I think some questions will be answered when he gets out there and gets into full swing. The way I figure it, his game will either help mask or expose the flaws in Smith’s game. We’ll see which it is.

By HB Ando

November 17, 2006 01:04 AM | Link to this

Ray, I guess you missed my request for paragraph breaks……….

Night yall.

By tb

November 17, 2006 02:05 AM | Link to this

It would be very easy for Woody to implement some sets that start JS closer to the basket.

Player and ball movement create high percentage shots.

The problem with JS taking all those threes is more that his game is better suited to play near the rim. He really can turn into a late 90’s version of KMart if he will move his game inside and pick up the intensity. then Woody needs to do a better job with rotations.

I have never been impressed with our sets or execution since Woody has been in charge. The threes are not the problem, the fact that he is taling most of his shots there is a problem.

By RAMON

November 17, 2006 02:51 AM | Link to this

Personally i think with this being the beginning of the season, JS should continue to shoot from beyond the arc. And only penetrate more during crunch time at the end of games. Tb, you say JS could be a version of KMart, but KMart isnt a special player. Kmart is a good player who skills were magnified playing along side Jason Kidd. If you guys have played basketball before at a high level, you know what you do in practice when no one is on you has no affect on your skills until you do it in a GAME.

Most guards in the NBA are automatic from beyond the arc in practice or shoot arounds (as you know most games to 21 consist of free throws at the 3 point line), but that doesn’t mean anything in a live game. Smoove and Woodson would be doing a great injustice to limit his shots from the perimeter. His shot in game time will only come with repititions.

Think of it this way, if he takes the first quarter of the season to fine tune that jump shot during games, that will lead to more rest for JJ. JJ plays so many minutes b/c when Lue is out there (or even with Speedy) he is the ONLY player at the moment who stretches the defense. Otherwise, teams could easily adjust to defend the Hawks when JJ go out with a soft zone.

Imagine JJ being able to get rest on the bench while Smoove and MWilliams continue the offensive flow. If Smoove is allowed to develop his game even more during live action, a possible line up of Lue (or Speedy), MWilliams (he did get time at off guard at UNC), Smoove, Sheldon, and Zo; while JJ and Zaza get valuable rest for a late second half push. Give Smoove the necessary time to develop that part of the game, and the Hawks will have 2 all stars.

Not to mention if you look at long term, the longer Smoove goes without developing the jumper and relying on slashing, the more vulnerable he will be to injuries and a shorter effective playing career. Thats why a complete game is so effective. All of the players who rely heavily on scoring in the paint have missed significant time from the line up in their career. If Nique had a better jumper he would’ve been a Hawk for 2-3 more seasons at least.

And as someone mentioned, it isnt as if JS doesnt bust his a** on every defensive possesion. He work for his ‘bad shots’. He’s earned the right to take those. Everyone says MWilliams has more potential, but (as much as i love Marvin) Marvin doesnt have half of the defensive intensity that Smoove has when he’s TIRED. Smoove, JJ, and Childress are the premeir defenders on the Hawks, with Sheldon becoming a solid contributor.

I know i’ve said alot, but just think of it this way, in 8-9 years half of these Hawks will not be on the roster. But majority of us will still be Hawks’ fans. So we should think about the long term problems, such as wear and tear on a body, or Smoove not developing a perimeter game and Belkin being to cheap to want to keep him. If Belkin thought JJ wasnt worth MAX and fat Boris, he’ll probably think Smoove only deserves midlevel exception without a jumpshot.

By the way, i see the Hawks finishing in the 6th or 7th seed in the East. And that would be great. Although it was early in the season, we would have to love the Hawks chances when matched up with the Cavs in 1st round, or even the Nets (who has no inside presence, except for Vince’s occasional highlight). But in order for that to happen, the line up must feature 2 players who are capable of knocking down a 21 foot ‘J’.

By the way the next time someone says fire Woody or Knight, I hope and pray that they mention a legitimate, decent name for a replacement, b/c i cant see one (especially not a college coach, NO HAWKS’ FAN SHOULD WANT TO LIVE THAT AGAIN).

By RAMON

November 17, 2006 03:01 AM | Link to this

Oh, yea! Sekou, I agree with you with the nastiness. Although I also believe that nastiness comes with a certain level of pride. That is why Zo is so important b/c in Memphis, he gained that winning mentality. The Hawks havent had a young, promising roster like this since the 80s. But often times, that nastiness comes with success i believe. For instance, though fragile, the nastiness that Mutumbo possessed was as if he was saying ‘How could you possibly try to score on me like that…’ But I may be wrong…

By the way, Woodson is frustrated with Smoove shot selection, not b/c its so damaging, but because his job til the end of the season (when things will pay off for Smoove) isnt guaranteed. Rookies buy condos, veterans buy houses, coaches just leave their wives and say they’ll be back in the summer (if not sooner). LOL

By Wedgie Evans

November 17, 2006 04:53 AM | Link to this

33.3% from 3 may be better as 50% from 2 in terms of number of points scored in the short term, but it is not the same the more possessions you have. A 33.3% 3-point shooter may get 3 points in one possession, but he is getting 0 points in 2 other possessions, giving up an opportunity for up to 6 points. A 50% 2-point shooter is getting 2 points in one possession and 0 points in another — he is giving up an opportunity for up to 3 points. So a 3 point shooter at 33% may effectively score the same number of points, but he is doing it much more inefficiently.

For every 10 possessions, a 33.3% 3-point shooter scores 9 points, and a 50% 2-point shooter scores 10 points. The more possessions you have the more pronounced this difference becomes. This is why unless you are a dead-eye 3 point shooter like Ray Allen or Michael Redd or Joe Johnson, 3 point shooting should be kept to a minimum, and this is why Josh Smith needs to quit jacking it up from 3.

Josh Smith needs to continue working on his handles in practice so that he can drive inside, draw fouls, and finish consistently at the basket. The Hawks right now are better at shooting 3’s than they are at driving inside thanks to Lue and Joe Johnson — J-Smoove taking 3’s is redundant and wastes possessions. We don’t have a “slasher” type who can consistently drive inside and finish, and Josh Smith needs to become that guy.

By Wedgie Evans

November 17, 2006 04:57 AM | Link to this

And I don’t want to make it look like I am entirely against Josh Smith shooting jumpers, but his primary move should be to drive the basketball. Once he establishes himself as a slasher, his 3 point looks will open up much more and his shooting percentage will likely go up from 3 as well. Right now he shoots a lot of 3’s when he could easily drive inside and draw fouls or finish at the rim. Another thing I think people overlook is that he has pretty good court vision for a small forward, if he drives inside more often he will probably be able to find guys like Zaza near the hoop for easy buckets.

None of this is going to happen, however, until he improves his handle. Right now he doesn’t handle the ball nearly well enough to be a consistently featured part of the offense anywhere on the floor. He really needs to work at this a lot in practice, and I hope Woodson is emphasizing this to him.

By Clyde

November 17, 2006 07:24 AM | Link to this

Ok now that we have established Josh Smith needs better shot selection (eventhough we got off to our best start in 7 years with his shot selection) what else needs to be done to help the Hawks?

I think Zaza has to get tougher on the defensive end. Josh Smith can’t be the only starter in the line up that is willing to challenge a shot. We are going into our 2nd year where Zaza just lets people walk down the lane.

And I think Nique would do a better job coaching the Hawks than Woody

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By jhan

November 17, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this

Why don’t we let everyone on the team just shoot three after three so that in 8-9 years they all will be good three point shooters? Anybody ever do the research on offensive rebounds after a three point shot compared to a two pointer? It seems like most of those shots JS was missing ended up being a fast break opportunity for the other team. If he is taking his shot in the lane, there seems to be better opportunities for offensive rebounds & less fast breaks for the opponent.

By honest_abe

November 17, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this

one again clyde your points are off base…. what makes you think nique would be a good head coach?… so you think good coaches are made out of thin air? you think on court greatness translates that easily onto the bench? nique has no coaching experience. HE EVEN GOT TURNED DOWN BY HIS ALMA MATER (UGA).. but you think he’s qualified to be a nba head coach? BAH! i think nique has the POTENTIAL to be a good coach, but he needs to spend some time on the bench before he even should be considered

ramon: i saw a ridicuosly long post and automatically assumed it was ando’s.. heh but i must admit i disagreed wish some things you wrote…

And as someone mentioned, it isnt as if JS doesnt bust his a* on every defensive possesion.* JS still doesn’t make the proper defensive rotations.. he still allows people to get by him too easily thinking he can block the shot.. which usually tranlates into him picking up cheap fouls..

He work for his ‘bad shots’. He’s earned the right to take those. what you talkin bout willis? he works for those 3’s? um.. NO he sits around the perimeter.. no movement, no screens, and then he launches shot after shot.. only one person has “EARNED” the right to take a “BAD” shot.. and that’s jj..

Everyone says MWilliams has more potential, but (as much as i love Marvin) Marvin doesnt have half of the defensive intensity that Smoove has when he’s TIRED. WHAT DEFENSIVE INTENSITY ARE YOU SPEAKING OF? jsmith might be the laziest defender we have.. he still gets blocks because he has unbelievable athletic ability! but it doesnt’ take much to get by him and if the person has some length or height it’s not that hard to score on him….. i.e. check the game against the bucks.. villenueva was straight KILLING him!

in conclusion both of you knuckleheads made some absurd points… ! chew on that..

TGIF!!!!

By Astro Joe

November 17, 2006 09:43 AM | Link to this

Jhan, we should let Salim develop his low-post skills. We should let Shelden develop his 3-point skills. And we should let Childress develop his PG skills. After all, doesn;t every team get to use the regular season for the development of their players? I know my bosses don’t ever really expect performance out of me, they pay me 40 hours a week to develop my financial modeling skills so that I will be a better corporate exec 5-8 years down the line. Who cares if financial modeling represnts about 2% of my current assignment, it is important for my future aspirations to be the next Richard Parsons.

By newkid

November 17, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

Last night I heard Hubie Brown say that on a 12-man roster he rotated players 1 thru 8 to win games, 9 & 10 to develop & display their skills for trade possibilities, and players 11 & 12 not at all. If JSmith is in the 1 thru 8 rotation, it would probably be a good idea if he brought the necessary skills to camp.

By John D.

November 17, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

I think some of you are looking for more from Marvin than he will be able to contribute when he returns or for the year for that matter.

By newkid

November 17, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

If you expect to be in the city on Friday, Nov. 24th and you’re interested in attending the Hawks/Raptors game, you might check out Hawksquawk for discounted tix courtesy of one of the Spirit owners ($60 tix for $25).

By The Flash

November 17, 2006 01:12 PM | Link to this

A good shot does not depend on distance, per se, or even shooting angle. A good shot is one you feel, is one in your rhythm, is one you AND the rest of the team, including the coach, are comfortable with you taking.

I don’t believe in handcuffing players.

Bill Cartright used to say that what made Chicago so tuff that they expected even the worse shooter on the team to take the shot if it was right, and that there would be no second guessing if he missed. If the defense gave it, they would expect him to take it again.

He said that other teams would pigeon hole players like, on Chicago I’m thinking of a guy I think was named Myers, and have them only shoot uncontested 15 footers or layups. That Chicago was different, they made you guard everyone and empowered everyone.

Better shot selection, sure; better catching position better. When you start asking a scorer to pass up shots in his wheelhouse when he feels it and is in his rhythm, to me you are looking for real trouble. Very delicate balance; very delicate issue you all are discussing here. Be careful what you demand.

By Astro Joe

November 17, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

Flash, in baseball, if a pitcher has problems throwing his curve ball during the game, he moves on and throws the pitches that will help his team stay in the game. He doesn’t keep throwing an ineffective pitch. I “demand” that Smith make the neccessary adjustment to keep his team in the game, not continue to practice 3-point shots. This notion that he should continue to shoot to learn how to make them is laughable. And all he is doing is playing into the hands of the opposition. Would the Hawks rather see Antoine Walker hurling bombs Saturday evening or driving aggressively in the lane? And as a student of the game, Flash, you know that it is much more challenging to pull down an offensive board off a 3-ball than it is a 2-ball.

By The Flash

November 17, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

Astro, when I played, if anybody but a guy named Jeff Mann tried to throw up what we now call a 3-ball, Bill Munch would have broken his arm. And, Mann did not miss, not often enough to count anyway.

But, to your point Astro, I ain’t signed up yet (Man am I cheap) so I’m in no position to say that Smooth is taking bad shots (1 for 13 or whatever is a tad much though, I get that). However, were they shots that he was really feeling, really in rhythm, and he was just having an off night, or was he really out of sync and taking shots that no one should unless incredibly hot, or time running down.

Makes a difference. I do not think that Josh should be told not to take the three if it is there and he is feeling it. You want him and others to look for something different, something that is more penetrating of the defense, that is one thing. But, saying you had a bad shooting night, so don’t shoot the three, is very dicey. I am not disagreeing here; just saying that this thing is more nuanced than people are making it.

You tell Smooth not to take the three and you are telling him he is playing out of position. He will not listen to that, nor will he perform up to his potential.

So, while I’m understanding your view, I think that Woody has a job on his hands and operating like the General is not the way to get it done.

Me, I’m more of the Zen Master type.

I can’t tell you how much I hate my town and all the talk by the so-called experts of “the big three” this, and “the big three” that; I think that they are idiots. You don’t ever hear criticism of the big three for taking too many shots from long range because they have an off night. Hell, Jamison had an off night for a bout a month and shot his way out of it.

I think dividing a team into the roll of green light guys, some are better than other guys, is divisive and in the end very counterproductive. I do not want to see the Hawks cultivate that kind of mentality. That’s all I’m saying. Nuance, here, Astroman; I seen you do it. All I’m advocating for.

Really, he was 1 for 13, and he didn’t stop heaving them up after say no. 6? And Woody didn’t brake his arm or nothing, that right? Wow!

By THL

November 17, 2006 01:55 PM | Link to this

I have to agree with Clyde on one thing…ZaZa is a str8 up punk on the defensive end. As hard as he works for offensive rebounds, you would think he could step in front of someone once in a while. I’m just glad ZaZa stopped all that flopping crap…too bad Bogut from Milwaukee has picked up where ZaZa left off.

I agree with everyone that says Josh is taking too many 3s. He can knock down open shots and that’s an asset for the team but when he starts jacking up 3s everytime he catches the ball behind the line, he cheats himself and the team. He really is starting to resemble Antoine Walker like Astro alluded to. He as the ability to get easy shots close to the basket but he settles for those 3s too much.

By Clyde

November 17, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

“Everyone says MWilliams has more potential, but (as much as i love Marvin) Marvin doesnt have half of the defensive intensity that Smoove has when he’s TIRED. WHAT DEFENSIVE INTENSITY ARE YOU SPEAKING OF? jsmith might be the laziest defender we have.. he still gets blocks because he has unbelievable athletic ability! but it doesnt’ take much to get by him and if the person has some length or height it’s not that hard to score on him….. i.e. check the game against the bucks.. villenueva was straight KILLING him!”

Honest abe are you alright? Josh Smith is 9th in blocks all time in Hawks history. You can’t do that in just 2 years being lazy on defense. Zaza’s the one that’s lazy.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By John D.

November 17, 2006 02:32 PM | Link to this

Time on the shot clock has to be factored into a decision to shoot, whether a 3 or not. Inside 5 seconds and an open look, the shot must be taken absent a WIDE OPEN teammate with a better shot.

By mykhalc

November 17, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

FLASH, you gotta be careful with that way of thinkin’!! a lotta cats haven’t met a 3 they didn’t like and didn’t know they WEREN’T hot until after the game!!! and the fact that 50% of JS shots have been 3’s in the last 3 games ought to tell you quite a bit!! yeah, he was feelin’ it alright!!!LOL listen i don’t want the cat to stop shootin’ the 3. just needs to mix it up more with drives and some post up!!

By Astro Joe

November 17, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

I guess I see the whole 3-point shooting thing as a sign of softness. And its not just Smith. I recall hearing Dwight Howard say that he was going to work on his 3-point shooting during the last off-season. Thank goodness someone talked him out of that one. I saw Bosh shoot 20 footers against the Hawks. A lot of them. JON does the same in Indy. These younger players seem to work on 2 aspects of their games, dunks and 3-point shots. Then you look at the true elite of the league, and you see guys like D Wade, LeBron, Kobe, Melo, AI, Vince, Arenas, Rip, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, T-Mac (sometimes), Grant Hill, etc. who live in the 10-18 feet range. And they get punished for it but they also get the points, the titles and the adoration. And you wonder if younger guys (other than Childress, Morrison and few others) are even paying attention. Its just frustrating to see so many of today’s players constantly take the easy way out.

By The Flash

November 17, 2006 04:12 PM | Link to this

Astroman, btw, you want to know about Jeff Mann, ask Herb. The guy was small, and couldn’t jump, but he was a point guard of extraordinary insight. Herb coached him summers.

By The Flash

November 17, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

Myman, good points. I’m just again saying that care is needed here. The guys Astroman mentioned, with the exception of Wade, will all kill you from 3 if you give it to them. They also know when it is not in them to be shooting it.

In that sense, and not having seen him (you guys don’t want to take up a collection; that’s what I thought, thinkingman), I have no reason to doubt the collective wisdom here that Smooth’s judgment needs improvement. I repeat again that he has had to make the biggest adjustment to his game due to MW’s absence then anyone else. If he’s playing the 4, he plays it like Al. Establishes the inside threat, hurts you bad when he can there and makes you defend that to the 9s, then feeling in control, can glide out and hurt you there.

The team, not just Smooth, have to help address this adjustment period, is some of what I am saying. Maybe you try to force switches between SW’s defender and Smooth’s; then he has the quicks/agility advantage. I’d DEFINITELY have him on the right side of the court. Then, if he goes baseline he comes up to the rim with the left, can short stop on his right and go straight up for a deadly jumper (I’ll have to show you the body allignment but it basically has his body facing the baseline, an abrupt stop on his right foot, a plant of the left big toe just next to and inside of the right heal, the left elbow making a perfect L and you shoot with a slight fade away, using only your wrist) or go center with your left. He’s probably on the WRONG side of the court.

Damn, this web site is great! Thanks guys.

By RAMON

November 17, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe, hold up…. LeBron, Kobe, AI, Vince, Arenas, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, and T-Mac ALL often times SETTLE too much because of the ‘scorers rule (shoot your way out). AT THIS POINT OF HIS CAREER, JS (statistics prove) is a better 3 point shooter than Kobe, T Mac, and AI never developed a consistent 3pt range. And Grant Hill never could make anything beyond the arc, thats why he didnt shoot them much.

I’m not saying for JS to LEARN how to shoot, b/c he knows how to shoot, but shooting in practice and in a game is DIFFERENT. Everyone says they’re BAD SHOTS (not me), but evidently he felt he could make the shots and was in rhythm of the game or wouldnt have taken the shots. MAKING SHOTS stretches the defense and opens up the lane for a player who handles are less than suspect (which JS is very poor in). Dribbling is the only thing that you can really practice ALONE and see immediate results. Just like when you went to a Hawks practice a few years ago, Stephen Jackson and/or Isaiah Rider would be seen knocking down jumpers left and right, but in game time missing everything. If the player thinks he can make the shot, TAKE IT, unless its at a critical point in the game.

Think of it this way, with his shot selection (with the exception of the first game) what game have the Hawks NOT had a chance to win. Abe, i NEVER said all of the Hawks should do it, but if JS could be a good cornerstone (which he can) it is very important for him to expand his game from just being a backdoor player. Name one player who has a huge reputation for driving who hasnt missed significant time away from their team’s line up.

If JS feels the shot and as if he can make it, take the shot. JS even said it himself when he was 1 for 13, that he couldnt even make a LAY UP that evening. So taking a three was just as good, if he felt he could make it. Maybe my opinion is bias b/c i’ve played college ball (in Atlanta).

By the way, JS isnt lazy on defense he plays to his STRENGTHS. If he try to be a ‘ball hawk’ all game he will always be on the sidelines b/c he doesnt have the quickness. Being fast and quick are two TOTALLY different things. And the other night Villanueva killed him on some possessions, but you’re talking about one of the best young power forwards in the game on the offensive side. JS is NOT a power forward he is an ATHLETE who can get BY at PF but isnt a FOUR. He’s a poor man’s Shawn Marion, who against better competition is undermatched in half court. Just because you can block shots doesnt mean you need to be in the low post. Hell, last season, D Wade had more block shots than Zaza and Haslem, doesnt mean he should replace Haslem at the 4 though.

By The Flash

November 17, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

Correction: I got my feet wrong. You catch it on the short hop with your right hand on your first step in the stop, which in a lefty’s case is his left foot; your right foot stops beside but slightly behind the right, toe mid-left foot; you bring the ball up with your right hand beside your right side to meet your left hand which is high over your head only slightly to the left, straighten your legs, elevate if you can, and snap that wrist, with your elbow pointed straight on to the basket. 9 out of 10 times, the defender is still on the floor; almost impossible to block and from 15 feet it is money. See Cassie Russell, and now just about everybody, although most do it squaring up, which is not the way to do it.

By The Flash

November 17, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

Actually, for you guys who go way back to the late 60’s, there was a lefty who played for Georgia named Andy Harrison who had that shot down to a T. Boy could ball; almost made the Olympics as a JC All-America. Taught him everything he knew, btw; then he left me in the dust.

By The Flash

November 17, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

Ramon, I’m probably gonna date you, but: Jerry Lucas wasn’t a center; however, you couldn’t tell Wilt that; he had Wilt so befuddled that the guy did not come out for the final bell.

And Dave D. was no power forward; never posted up in his life. Tell all the Gus Johnsons and other guys in the league that.

But, I really ain’t arguing with you about Smooth being a real 4; just saying that right now, as his game is evolving, his offensive style makes him most effective against the 4s, rather than the real athletic 3s. Maybe it will always be that way.

Then you’d ideally want to match him with a 6’10” guy who likes the 3 on offense, but can guard the 4 on defense. A ton of those around.

Difficult for a 20 year old “big” to become a small due to having Shellie play a lot of minutes as a relatively stationary 4 shrinking the spaces in the middle and placing two defenders there at all times, except when Shellie or Z are coming out for screen and rolls.

By jhan

November 17, 2006 06:00 PM | Link to this

Ramon, those guys you are talking about are established scorers without the 3-pt shot. Josh Smith has not developed any consistent offensive game except running the break. Once he establishes himself as a consistent threat within 18’, then he should work on the 3pt shot. Why should a 6’9” forward who can jump higher than any other player in the league settle for the long ball? Taking the 3 when you are in a funk is not just as good as driving the lane. Drive the lane and make them foul you. Even if you miss the free throws, the other team will be in the bonus which will allow for other players to get to the line. Very few people are fouled while taking a 3. Especially someone who is shooting 1-10 that evening! You should know this if you played college ball.

By ray

November 17, 2006 07:30 PM | Link to this

Amen, Jhan.

How’s that for a paragraph break, Ando?

By RAMON

November 18, 2006 12:37 AM | Link to this

You’re right, fouls are important ALWAYS. But the point i am making, at the moment JS handles dont allow him the chances to penetrate as much as people think he should. But at the same token he is still RELIABLE enough to take that shot if he feel as if he can make it. What JS is trying to do, is make a defense respect his PUMP FAKE at the perimeter so he may have an easier time driving. And if he hits 2-3 jumpers in a row, TRUST ME they will respect it and more penetration will come.

By mykhalc

November 18, 2006 01:56 AM | Link to this

yo FLASH, we need to do a collection for you and ME!!! i’m out in SF with no NBALP…YET!!! when MARVIN and SPEEDY get back to health maybe my wallet will too!!! then again!!!LOL