Hawks

By honest_abe

November 15, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

great points ss… but the game boiled down to lack of execution in the last minute….

when the game got into crunchtime i.e. within the last minute.. i don’t understand how you call a timeout and the best play you can come up with is jj stumbling around the perimeter and then launching and off balance jump shot with two hands in his face… hmmmmmmm

point being.. although woody should be commended for doing a fine job developing these players, getting the most out of them… he is horrible at drawing plays during timeouts. i see other coaches scribble something down and it usually turns into a basket… the hawks usually looked more lost coming out of a timeout and their execution only proves as much…

the defensive rotations are still a step slow! looks like the hawks can go far with their athletic ability and jj’s brilliance… but once again might come up short in a lot of games.. due to poor execution down the stretch.

By David Bell

November 15, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

After watching the game last night, all i can say is SALIM.. In for 5 minutes and u guys come back, and he hits a big shot at the quarters end.. added alot of life,energy, and minus the 2 fouls some good in your face defense on the perimiter..

I think he proved to fans, himself , and espeically the coaching staff wht he is capable of. Get him in the rotation and you guys will start winning these close games..

By MS

November 15, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

Sekou, How bout that foul called on JJ that gave Redd the 3-point play and the Bucks a 1-point lead with ~26 seconds left? That looked like pretty darn good defense to me. Huge point there. Your take?

By Astro Joe

November 15, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

I’m glad Salim got a cameo appearance. Hopefully, he will get more run in the coming games.

I’m thrilled for Childress. Sounds like he played a terrific game and he has been getting accolades on the radio today. Good to see Doc give him much love.

Thanks to Doc and Jhan for the analysis from the game. Looking forward to seeing what Ando has to say about BK’s boyz.

By Scott

November 15, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Shelden has on offense, is too slow footed to guard anyone with any offensive game, doesn’t have a “quick-bounce” to grab quick rebounds or loose balls, and plays BELOW the rim. This guy is basically what Brian Skinner is to Milwaukee - except Shelden get more minutes. Oh Yeah - Shelden was the #5 pick in the ENTIRE draft - while Skinner was nowhere near that. Billy, you suck and so do the Bird-brain Spirit.

By vdunkndunk

November 15, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith should attack the basket more…but not from the perimeter. He can seriously only put about two dribbles together, so I think he needs to post up, then turn and face…or else develop a back to the basket game.

The highs with Josh Smith are pretty high, and the lows can be pretty low. Hopefully he can start to develop some consistency, but I’m getting ready to give up hope that he’ll ever learn to handle the ball well enough to play SF in the NBA.

By mykhalc

November 15, 2006 05:24 PM | Link to this

DOC and JHAN, a mahalo from me too on your recaps!! NICE!!

ANDO, where u at??? inquirin’ minds wanna know!!LOL

By gb

November 15, 2006 05:55 PM | Link to this

if j chills had j smooves body he would soon be an all star. if j smoove had j chills bb iq and desire, he would soon be an all star. if j smoove had j chills body and talent he would be in turkey playing with cenk.

By neil

November 15, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this

Great job, SS. I totally agree. I have to say that our interior defense (Sheldon and Zaza) leave something to be desired at times. Although the help defense with J Chill and J Smith have been great. How many times did J Smith change the shots on some of the Bucks fastbreak opportunities. I know at one point he did it like twice in a row. He definitely needs to think less about the three point line and more about driving, but that’s a point that has been talked about in depth already.

Really glad to see Salim out there. I was glad to finally hear some sort of reason as to why he wasn’t out there. I hope he gets some more playing time, because he’s a fan favorite and his talent needs to be utilized.

By JohnD

November 15, 2006 09:26 PM | Link to this

Excellent as usual, Sekou.

The Hawks have a defensive stopper in Josh Childress and he is playing enough to handle the opponent’s star at either guard or forward. Milwaukee made life difficult for JJ because if he does not play Redd the only other option is Patterson and Reuben is too strong inside for JJ.

I think JSmith started the Seattle game on Ray Allen, if not he did play him at times. In fact I think the Hawks tried everyone on Ray Allen at some point.

The Hawks obviously have to be tougher inside. The last two games were lost there despite some other deficiencies. Free throw shooting against Seattle and the inability to stop the guards against Milwaukee are apparent.

The team just seems to have settled back into some of the habits from last year. The last 2 games looked more like 05-06 than the first 5 games of 06-07.

The Hawks were pushing or slowing the tempo earlier but the last 2 games seemed to be played at the opponent’s pace.

In almost 60 years of NBA ball the basics have not really changed. Rebounding and interior defense will win more games than perimeter shooting. This is true at all levels of the game.

When Zaza plays effectively he goes to the free throw line because he is slashing and active.

The Hawks are not to the point where they can win many games without full effort and effective contribution from each of their first 8 players. They also will not receive the calls Allen and Redd were beneficiaries of at the end of games. Was the officiating one sided at the end of both games? Yes, but the team will eventually earn the calls if they play more like the first 5 games than the last 2.

By Samuel

November 15, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

Cuz,

Some good points. We had a chance to win it at the end but couldn’t get it done. As good as JJ is, heshould have passed that last shot. I know he’s the man and all but four defenders means somebody is seriously open. Ty Lue was HOT all night. I would have liked to see him take that last shot. Eventually, he(JJ) is gonna have to trust someone else or else they will start to lose confidence.

The guys still played hard. I still don’t like Josh taking all those outside shots. Many times last night, there wasn’t a defender within 10 feet of him and he still wouldn’t go to the hole.

The Bucks just had a little too much firepower. Mo(Mississippi) Williams kilt us in the first half and Michael Redd took over in crunch time. The leading scorer in the league is supposed to get that foul call and he did. Keep pushin Hawks and we’ll steal some this year.

By mykhalc

November 15, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

SS, NICE on the BLOG today and the JJ article!! glad to see JJ start to REALLY get the props he deserves from around the league!! but how could he not???!! he can flat out ball on both ends of the floor!!

By ray

November 15, 2006 10:36 PM | Link to this

Man am I glad I avoided the abomination that the “Bobby Knight” blog turned into. Geez…

That was a disappointing loss to Milwaukee. The Hawks were fully capable of winning that game. Our starting lineup has GOT to quit starting off so slow. We let the other team get into a rhythm and then see how long it takes to make the game close. And after all that, we actually had a somewhat decent lead that we let get away from us. I hated the way Smoove was playing. His shots didn’t even look good leaving his hands. That’s how bad it was. As much as we can yell that Woody needs to impress upon him what he needs to do to be effective, it just won’t happen until Josh himself “gets it.” Until then, he’ll have a few games where his shot is falling, and more games where he’s ineffective and lost. Lue has been fantastic for us. I can’t say it any better than this: somewhere in L.A., a Lakers executive is wondering how exactly they let him get away…’cause they don’t have ANYTHING like him right now. JChill has been flat awesome. He is bringing the energy that guys like Smith should have. Shooting a high percentage, crashing the boards. And most of all: he’s consistent. Shelden looked better than I’ve seen him by far. Tell me he wasn’t hammering the glass! We also got some seriously bad calls, like the foul on JJ when he was guarding Redd, and the non- traveling call where (forgot which Milwaukee player-Redd or Mo Williams) caught the inbounds pass and went about 90 freakin’ steps before even trying to dribble. Yet they seemed to catch us every time. Ridiculous. In spite of that, we still should have won. As for combating guys like Mo Williams, our big guys have got to put that to rest. More games like this and we won’t make it past 30 wins. Then, we better hope those ping pong balls bounce just right next april. But I still see better things on the horizon. It will take committment and determination on the part of the team, not just a few guys. Can’t wait for Marvin’s return. Now I do believe teams won’t be sagging off of him when he goes to pop a jumper. Speedy will help the on-ball defense when he comes back.

You have to admire the love Salim got from his teammates when he made that shot at the end of the quarter. What a confidence booster. Salim’s problem is he’s trying to make too much happen too fast when he gets his minutes. Very active defense, but not the intense, smart defense. He will get better, but not if he doesn’t play. Even though he can change the speed of the game, he has to play within the flow of his game. He looks like he’s afraid they will take him out if he doesn’t run all over the place like a crazy person. But I kinda can’t blame him: they did take him right out of there.

By Jay

November 15, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this

Ive watched every hawks game on tv. One thing that has stuck out to me…most of our offense involves a two-man game between Joe and Zsa with EVERYONE else standing around. The person I have the most issue with…Josh Smith. There is a reason he’s shot so many 3’s…he NEVER moves! He stands by the 3-point line almost every possession. And look, for someone so talented, he cant drive it to the hole. Its uncomfortable watching him. The only attempt I saw him try to take it to the hole, was a turnover. Just like in Toronto. And dont think he doesnt know this. Thats why he “settles” for so many jumpers…he knows he cant beat anyone off the dribble. From what Ive seen, I want Marvin to start with Landlord. Yes, I said what I didnt think I would. But you cant keep landlord off the court when he is our only player that excels at rebounding.

If Josh Smith could develop some kind of dribblibg game, he’d average 20 ppg.

The only other thing that is bothering me is that we only have one guy to go to when we need a bucket. You take Joe out and its the Lue show. We are going to need someone that can post up or win off the dribble, because Lue wont always been hitting those jumpers like he did against the bucks.

By jeremy

November 15, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this

remember guys…we are 4-3 with 2 losses totalling 3 points and both game winners were by all-stars AND…..AND….we have 2 starters down and Salim is just getting back in to the line-up. Very easily we could be 6-1…a legit 6-1 w/o 2 starters. the hawks are for real and im tired of all the doubters.

By Clyde

November 15, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

Jay I say don’t get mad at Josh Smith for not moving without the ball. I say blame it on coaching. Blame it on the offensive system that we run which basically consists of giving the ball to JJ and letting him go one on one.

Jsmoove can’t develop an outside shot if he doesn’t shoot. He can’t develop his ball handling without taking the ball up the court every now and then. That play he made where he got the rebound and took the ball the lenght of the court for a dunk was amazing. That’s exactly what the Hawks need. With no low post scoring we need to get up and down the court. Yall give Jsmooth a break. He is still developing.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By CLS

November 16, 2006 02:05 AM | Link to this

Great comments by some of the posters… I agree totally with vdunkndunk, Jay and Clyde on Smooth…

Jay, I’ve noticed the same thing as you for awhile now… he doesn’t move without the ball! If this guy would learn to move and get to some open spots underneath the basket, he’d be deadly inside, and a great target for the guards to hit down low. It’s a big part of what Chill does… getting to the open space, and getting easy baskets. Smooth would be even more dangerous down there with his athletic ability.

And while some of it is just plain basketball IQ, and the guy should know it, I do blame coaching and this offense for not putting him in position to succeed. There simply are no plays to take advantage of this guy’s strengths.

And vdunkndunk, so true about his ability to drive the ball… everyone wants him to, but if he’s in a crowd, his ball handling is only about 2 dribbles and he’s ready to turn it over. I’ve been saying for awhile now, he needs to develop a low post game.

But all that said, he’s really one of my favorite players. And Clyde, I agree, folks need to give him a break. He’s still young, and he’s got all the desire in the world to be great. I love that he’s improved his shooting, and I agree the only way to keep improving is to shoot. And that play he made where he got the rebound and took the ball the length of the court for a dunk really was amazing.

By reese

November 16, 2006 02:11 AM | Link to this

I only saw the 2nd half of the game and have the following comments.

Josh Childress blocked a shot again and was very agressive/productive on the offensive end.

Lorenzon Wright blocked his first shot of the season. He’s got to do more defensive end similar to what Josh Smith is accomplishing.

The hawks have not had the respect of the referees in many years. The Home team shot 15 less free throws than the visitors.

Its time to experiment with starting t lue and josh childress. Its the team that gets the most playing time anyway.

Zaza tries to help out on defense but he is not athletic enough to block shots or alter shots(no news flash here).

Sheldon Williams has not translated his college shot blocking skills to the NBA. He is averaging .6 blocks per game.

Woodson has yet to place a defensive shot blocker on the floor with Josh smith in crunch time. Additionally, the hawks are not double teaming, forcing the ball into a non star’s hand or packing the paint in those late game drives by the other teams star players.

Josh Smith did what a person is suppose to do when their offensive game is off. He found other ways to help his team. He blocked 3 shots and altered many others. He played help defense and he took the open shot.

Again, my suggestion for improving Josh Smith’s ball handling is to let him play point guard. I previously suggested that he do it in the summer league, but since that wasn’t done, he now needs to do it in practice.

Despite the 2 losses, they are still remaining competitive, entertaining and JJ is continuing to bring it every night like the other guards (Pierce, Iverson, Kidd, V Carter, Billups, Arenas, Wade, Redd) he’ll be competing against for the All Star spots.

By Ben

November 16, 2006 08:01 AM | Link to this

Why is nobody talking about the WORST non traveling call that I have seen in my life?! Early in the 3rd, Bucks inbound to Redd near the 3 pt line, he jumps, shifts his feets, dances, and finally passes, without taking a dribble, to Bogut for a layup and foul! They showed it on replay: he took 5 steps and used his pivot foot!! You could hear the barking from the crowd and bench, the annoucers were floored, but NOBODY is talking about it! If I was Woodson, I would have gotten thrown out of the game! I turned the game off soon after that in disgust. My wife said “That will suck if they lose by 2!” I know this is the NBA and you can get away w/ an extra step or 2 at times, but 5 FREAKIN steps!?! They would even call traveling for that in 2nd graders girls basketball! That call Redd got near the end of the game was BS as well. Johnson played textbook D. Keep playing hard Hawks!

By jack

November 16, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

If we could see the extreme talent in Joe, why would we rush to give Speedy all that money? All the conventional wisdom said no, just as it said yes to Joe. Also, Woodson says he asks/tells/yells for Smith to stay inside…where he should be…I do not care if he works on his outside shotmaking ever again. He should be made, or otherwise benched, to be working on his, hello, inside short stuff/putbacks. It WILL be the difference in many games to come!! Come on Coach, He is young but he cannot be this dumb!

By brewerfaninATL

November 16, 2006 09:31 AM | Link to this

Ben,

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhh! You take your meds yet? GO BUCKS!!

By Clyde

November 16, 2006 10:04 AM | Link to this

Reese and Cls here is the problem. Josh Smith wants to learn how to become a complete player but I don’t think his coach wans him to. They run little if any plays for Jsmooth. They yell at him when he brings the ball up the court and when he shoots a three. I remember last year when he was first shooting 3’s Woodson would get up off the benchand yell at him before he took the shot. But when he made it he would pump his fist in celebration.

Woodson is not a good coach for young players that need to develop because he keeps his players in cages. I wonder what would happen to a young Dirk Nowitzki if Woody were to coach him.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By honest_abe

November 16, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

clyde the notion that woody doesn’t want jsmith to be a complete player is (as colin cowherd would say) RICOLA!!!! RIDICULOUS!!!

1. They run little if any plays for Jsmooth. there’s a reason for that! at this point in his career it’s not very wise to run plays/offense through jsmith. he has a limited post up game. his jump shot is inconsistent. and his handles are well….pathetic.

2. They yell at him when he brings the ball up the court and when he shoots a three there is absolutely no reason for jsmith to bring the ball up the court. i’ve seen him turn the ball over too many times in those kinds of situations. this isn’t preseason, it’s not a time when jsmith should be learning how to dribble. improve that aspect of your game during the offseason! as for the 3 pointers.. jsmith should not be settling for shooting long range jumpers… he should be crashing the glass, picking up garbage points.. fighting and scrapping inside.

3. Woodson is not a good coach for young players that need to develop because he keeps his players in cages huh? he has had the youngest team in the league for the past two years and has slowly turned this around. take a look at zaza and chills and even j. smith and you’re telling me that haven’t significantly improved over the past 2 years?

i know you are a hawks fan… but seriously dude what are you talking about? sometimes i think you try to sound knowledgeable by criticzing the hawks… but i think with this last post you are really reaching…

By Chris

November 16, 2006 11:25 AM | Link to this

Simply put we need a starting NBA point guard. A taller stronger Royal Ivey is of no help. Any of the first three point guards taken last year or the two taken this year would be a serious back court upgrade. Sheldon got some boards so I am not going to hate hard on him but I am not feeling the benefits of his lottery decision. Jay Z was on the ESPN Hotseat and he was already dropping praise for his new boy in town Marcus Williams.
Ando and anyone else out there is up on who is available next year in the draft. What kind of PG might we be able to acquire with the Pacers pick next year.

By Clyde

November 16, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

Honest abe read your last post. After you read it tell me how in the world will JSmooth develop into an all-star caliber player if he isn’t allowed to do any of those things. All star caliber players have all around games. Josh Smith is too ambitious so he wants to become an all-star. Thats why he wants to improve his shooting and ball handling. Is that a crime? Let the young man develop.

The only way you develop talent is to allow talent to develop. Not lock it up and never give it a chance. I belive Josh Smith can play point if Woody would let him now and then. But Woody’s offensive capacity is so limited. I belive Josh Smith can be a good low post player if Woody would give him a chance. This is his 3rd year in the league and Woody still doesn’t have enough confidence in him to run a play for him? That’s bull. Stop hancuffing the talent.

And before I go answer this question. Would a young Dirk Nowitski develop into the scorer he is now if he had had Woody coaching him his first 4 years? I don’t think so.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By honest_abe

November 16, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

clyde… HUH? i hate to take shots but i took drank like 5 shots of expresso this morning.. and your lack of ability to make any kind of sense is blowing my mind! sometimes i really wonder if you have any basketball knowledge..

how in the world can you compare dirk to jsmith? dirk HAD an offensive game BEFORE he got to the nba. he’s a 6’11 freak that had decent handles and could ALWAYS shoot the rock. if someone has the ability woody isn’t going to hold them back. woodys number one priority to make the hawks into winners.. not use these games to improve jsmiths handles!

clyde it’s called coaching… when a players biggest weakness is settling for outside jumpers.. when his greatest asset is him athletic ability… it’s the coaches job to discourage bad habits and encourage good ones… woody isn’t confining josh skills rather he is waiting for them to develop…

you think josh smith could play point? LAY DOWN THE PIPE CLYDE! the hell have you seen from this guy that makes you think he can play point? just because you allow someone to do something doesn’t mean he will all of the sudden become proficient at it…

the way you make things sound… people would think josh smith has this great all around game…… the kid came out of high school with no fundamentals… he is a work in progress… jsmith’s lack of consistency has NOTHING to do with woody handcuffing his ability.. instead is has more to do with him constantly settling for jumpers and the fact that his game is not yet refined!

By Clyde

November 16, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Honest abe do you think Dwanye Wade should be shooting 3’s? Well as of today him and Josh Smith has the percentage from the arc; 33.3%. Josh smith is also 3 on the team in 3 point percentage.

Shot selection was not a problem when he went for 20 plus the other night. But when he goes 1-12 the next Woody wants to criticize him in the newspaper. Stop hatin’ please.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By honest_abe

November 16, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

geeeeeeez.. clyde you now officially prohibited from ever posting again! LOL..

why do you keep comparing jsmith to guys like dirk and dwade… I’M SORRY FELLAS BUT HE’S NOT READY! he didn’t go 1-12 because woody is holding him back. he went 1-12 because he doesn’t have a consistent outside shot!

ok… i will stop arguing with you as i feel like i am wasting my time..

let me see just one person on this blog who agrees with you that jsmith is a good outside shooter… what the? you my friend need to come back to reality before you completely lose it..

By John D.

November 16, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

Peaks and valleys. All but the truly great teams have them. The Hawks are in a valley and until each player knows his strengths and weaknesses, and those of his teammates, the valleys are more difficult to overcome.

The team works hard - coaches and players - gives effort even when the positive results do not always follow, and could easily be 6-1 as others have posted.

Be patient and allow the players to develop. Did I see somewhere the Hawks are the youngest team on average by 3 years? None of these guys likes losing and I am certain Coach Woodson is working this week on the problems.

All the analysis is very interesting to anyone who seeks differing views on the subjects and the team. If we all only listen to those with whom we agree there will be less progress.

By HB Ando

November 16, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

What’s up, guys?!

I wanted to wait until I read all of the original ideas before commenting, so I could steal all the good ones (actually, I got stacked up with work and then my in-laws showed up at 4:30 yesterday for the evening).

First, let me thank Jhan for inviting the good Doc and myself to sit in his bad-a* seats. They are as good as any in the place (close enough to yell at Sekou if one was so inclined). We did have a couple of beers and we did talk some serious hoops.

To be honest, there’s not a ton of new stuff to say that hasn’t already been posted. Lue was playing out of his a*. If he’s got that kind of game, he owes the team a rebate for last year, and ought to have to pay for some of Speedy’s contract, as well. My new boy, Chillz, was not so much all over the floor, as he was always in the right place, at the right time. He plays with intelligence and energy. His future with the team, though, depends completely on what they do with Josh Smith. I’m increasingly inclined to believe that he’s going to be the guy that team after team believes they can change.

Now, I know it’s early, and I’m not trying to close the book on him. But what I DID see was that he has absolutely no interest in going into the lane from the weak side. Shot after shot went up, while he stood motionless at the weakside 3-point line, longingly hoping someone would pass it to him for another 3-point attempt. If he’s as firm on wanting to be a 3 as it appears, then he’ll lose his job to Marvin, who simply has a better grasp of the game, and who will remain aggressive on both ends of the floor.

To be honest, I don’t get the lethargy out there. He’s such a freakish athlete, and he’s so young, that I can’t grasp how he’s not running at the rim and jumping in the air every time down the floor. I got my optimal hops around the age of 19. At 6’5, I could do some pretty decent stuff for a white boy, in the mid-80’s. I could take off from the circle, about 10 feet out, and dunk it. I could do a little statue of liberty 360. I could jump just outside the lane, off of two feet and c** it back with one hand. Here’s my point: I couldn’t quit running and jumping. 3 hours a day, down at Stegman, in Athens. I never missed an opportunity to leave my feet. Because there was just nothing that felt as cool as hanging in the air, either dunking, or pinning somebodies shot against the backboard (that was actually more fun than dunking, and though I can still squeeze a dunk over the rim, at 40, I can’t do that anymore, and I miss that more than anything). So where is that passion from Josh Smith? He’s got this phenomonal gift, and he’s seems utterly disinterested in using it half the time.

So, back to Chillz. With the current roster build, I still believe Childress could be packaged, with someone else, to obtain a potential starter at the one of 4-5 (depending on how you want to use Zaza). I believe that he’ll get pinched for minutes when Marvin comes back, and that his value to another team may exceed his value to this lineup. I’ve said this before. But now, I’m also more inclined to believe that Josh may be the bad fit, and that if you’re going to move Josh, then Childress will get minutes, and will be one of the best sixth men in the league. It’s not that I’ve doubted his ability, as much as where he fits.

Joe and Abe, I’d still take Deng or Igoudala over Childress. I haven’t changed my position on that. But has the margin tightened over the last year? Yes. And if Josh is going, Childress has to stay. But I do believe that’s the choice the front office faces, in the next year or so.

Shelden is what I expected. Not a fifth overall pick. Not in a million years. Role players are picked up through free agency, or in the late first/second round. I don’t believe any team should use such a high pick for a guy who’s limitations are so clearly defined coming into the draft. I don’t know why it’s so hard for folks to acknowledge that NO ONE ELSE BUT BILLY like Shelden at five. NO ONE ELSE. There’s a valid reason, and you see it every time he takes the floor. He’s a banger and a border, who isn’t athletic enough to score or block shots with any regularity. He knows how to play. But we could have filled that role some other way, and drafted a player with real upside, as a player here, or a trade asset in the near future.

My other thoughts are that the only reason we got back in that game was because Villanueva got hurt. Here’s a guy that’s 6-10, 6’11, who actually gets how to blend a power game with the occassional 3-point attempt. If Josh would play like Charlie V, we’d be in bette shape. We had absolutely no match up for Villanueva, and if he stayed out there, we probably lose by 15 (IMHO). I can’t believe Colangelo traded him to get a smallish point guard and create room for Bargnani. That was an “anxious to make my mark on my new team” kind of move. And I like TJ Ford, but there about 5 times as many viable point guard options out there as mobile big men with inside/out games like Villanueva. The ousted Babcock actually deserves props for making that pick two years ago.

Ray, please return to using paragraph breaks. You’re killing me.

TB, I’m glad you found someone else to fight with. I got your back, dude.

I do agree that there is blame to be spread on Josh’s play. I’d restict him from taking any 3’s for a few games. Tell him to get his baskets any other way. His hands really are that bad, but it’s not as if he needs great handle to attack the basket with a dribble or two. It really was kind of painful to watch someone so physically gifted be so obviously confused out on the floor. But if they tell him he can’t take the 3, for the time being, then he doesn’t have to worry about whether they’re happy with his decision making, and he can just focus on playing his game, sans the 3. I think that’s the best way to get him comfortable again.

Did I mention how great JHan’s seats are? Wow. JHan, I’ll be your date any time you want, brother!

Oh, and finally, I think the Salim issue is overblown. He doesn’t have much of a spot here. Joe, Chills, Lue and Speedy are all going to play in front of him, at the 1 and 2, so how much can you expect? His only real skill is shooting the ball, and that doesn’t seem to cover his other liabilities. Whatever part of this is personal, between him and the coaching staff, I don’t know. But I do know that despite his star status at Arizona, Lute Olson basically asked him to transfer between his junior and senior years, due to his attitude. Lute doesn’t have a track record for tyranical moves, so there’s something there. I can’t blame Salim for being competitive and wanting to be on the floor, though. I’d rather have a guy screaming for minutes than collecting a check on the end of the bench.

Guys, the truth is that the Hawks have lost back-to-back home games against sub-.500, borderline playoff contenders. Marvin’s return brings as many questions, rotation-wise, as it does answers. Speedy can’t possibly play any better than Lue has been playing, so how much does that help us? This is still going to be a 34-win team. Playoffs are not a realistic goal. The front line is bigger, but not much better.

Oh yeah, Joe Johnson is a star. If he doesn’t make the all-star team, it will be an absolute travesty.

By HB Ando

November 16, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Clyde, I have to agree with Abe. You’re on the pipe today. Dwayne Wade is one of the top players in the game right now, and he has wisely chosen to limit himself to 3 attempts per game (out of 20, for a 15% ratio). He knows his limitations and optimizes his opportunities. Josh is averaging 4.7 attempts, out of 12 per game, for a roughly 40% ratio, higher than any of the best 3-point shooters in the league. His 2-point percentage currently hovers at 42%, so what in the world suggests he’s a good enough shooter to launch so many 3’s?

With Smith’s athletic ability, his FG% should always remain above 50%, just like Childress. Two-thirds of his points should be coming on dunks and layups. His shot selection is simply indefensible. And the suggestion that he could play point, given his pathetic ball-handling, is simply absurd.

FIRE CLYDE’S CRACK PIPE!

By mykhalc

November 16, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this

ABE and ANDO, great posts!!!

CLYDE, what the hell thinkin’??? JS at point!!!!!!!!!?????????????? NOT EVEN FOR ONE PLAY!!!!!LOL you lost some serious credibilty with that one bro!!! no more to be said that ABE and ANDO haven’t already called you on. stay away from the mind altering stuff bro!! LOL

By Astro Joe

November 16, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

So here’s my question for all of you former hoopsters, how is it that you can be 21, played organized ball for probably 8-10 years and have a very poor handle? Seriously. When you are in the gym by yourself, don’t you do more than shoot free throws or practice lay-ups/slams. Aren’t you supposed to practice driving from the elbow, driving from the free throw line and other basic plays? When you play pick-up games, don’t you have to create your own shot more often then not?

I’m perplexed how Smith is so uncomfortable taking 2-3 dribbles toward the basket. It makes me question everything about his work ethic and basic understanding of the game. If I am wrong and dribbling is more of a basketball 401 course (as opposed to Basketball 101 or 201), please correct me.

Ando, I’d like to see Smith & Salim dealt to Portland for Aldridge & Dixon. If we need to throw in a 2nd rounder, I’d do it. Smith could live behind the 3-point line with Randolph posted on the block and Salim would also thrive in that offense. We would get a talented big that would likely play well beside Zaza or Shelden. And Dixon gives us another metally tough player like Lue. But Smith MUST go!

Oh yeah. And Ando, I think Lue is good for these types of games a few times a season. But clearly, we can’t expect this type of production for 35 minutes and 70 games a season. One of the reasons I like him so much is that he knows his limits. He’s not looking to be the starter. He wants to play his role off the bench where he can be most effective.

By doc

November 16, 2006 01:39 PM | Link to this

roll tide clyde, josh couldnt move with the ball against milwaukee nor could he shoot when standing still and significantly uncontested. three times on one possesion he literally dropped the ball. two of his blocks came ater huge mental errors and he covered it up by hustling back to make the stop. one coast to coast slam was his offense for the night, essentially. it was a terrible game but he looked lost and didnt help out others on offense nor board to make up for his deficiencies.

now, with all that said if josh smith becomes the floor general then both bk and woody ought to be fired. oh yeah, that is what you want. they wont go that easy.

By Gutz

November 16, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

I agree Astro Joe! how in the hell can he be that horrible at dribbling the ball? Smoove looks very uncomfortable out there when he gets the ball and tries to drive. I expect a turnover almost everytime he does it. Its frightening how bad he looks dribbling. I don’t know what the hell Woodson has Smoove doing in practice but its obvious he needs to learn how to dribble the ball and drive to the hoop.

By honest_abe

November 16, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

let me clarify my points…although i am critical of jsmith’s game… i dont’ want to see him leave as i feel his upside is too big!

i dont’ remember who made the comparison between jsmith and horry… i think it was aj.. but it’s pretty dead on… jsmith if used in the right capacity has the (i know you guys are all getting tired of this word but) potential to be something special. i think jsmiths ability or lack thereof to dribble only gets compounded in tight spaces. he dribbles the ball so high.. it’s easy to strip. the only way to solve that would be to have clear driving lanes… lanes in which one or two dribbles would get you to the rack. i saw an example of this on friday night against the raptors. the only way you get clear driving lanes like that .. is if you have a really quick pg who can penetrate and dish… (speedy) right now.. the hawks dont’ have that.. so hence you see all the standing around.. defenses dont’ have to jump out on josh so he just settles for the 3… i think once speedy returns.. you should see jsmith taking to the rim more frequently… i mean alot of jsmiths 3’s are wide open.. most teams would rather him shoot that shot then to let him drive……. you get a pg that can break down a defense and that might help alleviate this problem.

By mykhalc

November 16, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

ANDO, great recap!! from all 3 of you guys that attended!!

i agree with you on most everythin’ you posted except that JCHILLS might be packaged!! anything is possible, so i get you there. i just don’t think that you’re gonna give up someone that brings EXACTLY what you need thing to bring. but i do follow your logic on it.

i think the more i hear about JS the more i think he’ll be the one to lose out when MARVIN returns. i’ve been totally supportive of gettin’ them both on the floor and seeing how they work but i’m starting to see maybe it won’t be the best option for the team, not with JS playin’ the type of game he’s playin’ right now. and CLYDE, we are all for JS improving his game. it just should/can NOT be done at the EXPENSE of the team and/or a ‘W’. he’s just gotta play smarter…PERIOD!!! i began to feel at the start of the summer league that MARVIN was preparing for the ‘4’ in developing his post game. and i still believe that. but now i believe that WOODSON could easily keep SHELDEN in the starting rotation with MARVIN at the 3 if JS does not bring it smarter. we’ll see soon!!

and ANDO, totally with you on SALIM. no need for me to post anymore on him that i haven’t said already. but i am gettin’ closer to this being my post signature….

KG for JS, SALIM, and WHATEVER ELSE!!

By mykhalc

November 16, 2006 02:27 PM | Link to this

i’ll forgive JS lack of handles looong before i give SALIM a pass on his. NO EXCUSE!!! but this is what happens when you get to the top WITHOUT havin’ put in ALL the necessary work!! YOU GET EXPOSED FOR WHO YOU REALLY ARE!! talent can ALWAYS be trumped more talent!!(profound huh, LOL) at some point the dedication to the hard work to surpass ones threshold has to be put in!! and playin’ catch up once one gets in the pros will probably and eventually find one on the bench!!!

By honest_abe

November 16, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

oh yes and if we want to throw out trade ideas……

i say lets give up speedy and salim for raymond felton..

By tyger

November 16, 2006 02:37 PM | Link to this

Josh Smith’s 1-12 says it all. I suggest placing an electric dog collar around his neck and zapping him everytime he takes a three.

By mykhalc

November 16, 2006 02:40 PM | Link to this

need to proof my posts better, i know. but you feel what i’m sayin’!!

By The Flash

November 16, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

At ease boyz, did anybody here ever hear of a cold streak? The guy was blazing at the end of last year, right? And, he was knocking down the long one too.

I’ll say it again, the guy who was most hurt by MW’s injury was Smooth. He needs to play the 3/4 like Al did. With SW on the court for as long as he is, the inside out part of the game is really not there, not in the same way.

Screaming at a guy on the court, except to give certain type instructions, never helped anybody, especially if it’s screaming “don’ts.”

If the two guys handling it are scoring the ball more than all the rest, we got a problem and it ain’t with all the rest. It ain’t with the two either. Offensive concepts please. Coach em up Woody. We know that Z and Smooth can play. You guys who are on Smooth just got short memories is all.

On the other hand, some of you just might be right. Smooth might well be pursuing his own agenda to develop and outside game, a real one, to take to Orlando and play with his boy. If that is so, we got us a real problem here, don’t you think.

Where’s my boy roy when we need him is all I want to know.

By Clyde

November 16, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

Ok yall didn’t like the Dwanye Wade comparison so lets take to another all-star; Shawn Marion. Right now he is 12-41 with a 29.3 percent on 3’s this year. Do you think D’Antoni is telling him to stop shooting? My point is this. Josh smith is shooting better percentage wise than some of the top offensive players in the league. He should be congradulated for that.

I think 33% is good for a young player trying to develop his shot. He does need to get more disciplined when we shoots but I don’t think he should stop shooting all together.

And if Jchill can play point Jsmooth can play point. Yall keep talking about Jsmooth’s handles but what did yall think of that play where he got the rebound and took it the length of the floor for a dunk? He may not be fully developed on his handles but he sure is making progress.

And one more thing. I think Josh Smith has the potential to become a scorer like Dirk Nowitski. He just needs the right coach and the right system to bring it out of him. And right now its looking like the Hawks may not be the team for him to reach his fullest potential.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By newkid

November 16, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

Wow guys, really good stuff here starting back at the Clyde/Abe interactions around noon. Abe, you DO know that Clyde was just ‘joshing’ you, don’t you? Ando, true insight in your posts on impressions you took from the Milwaukee game.

Smoove appears a likeable guy, and I hope there are good ‘team’ reasons to keep him here. One sort of gets the impression that he hasn’t yet had the sort of tutelage/coaching that would have steered him to improve his fundamentals; or he did get the advice but hasn’t taken it to heart. It would be such a pity if his ceiling has already been established by virtue of continuing deficiencies in fundamentals. Too bad he didn’t decide to go off to a good college program for a couple of years before entering the draft. He sort of reminds me a bit of a former young ‘high school only’ Hawk named Bill Willousby (not sure of spelling). If BK and others in the Hawks organization are convinced that he has reached a ceiling, better keep it on the down low and package him in a deal before other organizations realize it.

By mykhalc

November 16, 2006 03:54 PM | Link to this

CLYDE, the problem is just about 50% of his shots over the last 3 games are comin’ from 3pt land (39% for the year so far)!!! you can’t shoot 33% on half your shots (the 3’s)and then 38% overall!!! and i’ll bet that most of that 38% is gettin’ pretty close to the arch when he lets it fly!! he needs to play smarter and that means cut down on the number of 3’s!!! no matter how OPEN he is!!! take the ball to the hole and leave the defenders earth-bound!!!! SIMPLE!!!!

By doc

November 16, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

roll tide clyde, how do you explain the defensive “effort” on josh by the bucs? there was none, he could have moved in three paces for a closer and higher percentage shot on almost everyone of his shots. gee, that might have pulled the defense out just a bit to open a lane for someone else who knows?

he needed to go to rei before that game for some camping equipment.

this issue wouldnt have been so magnified if the kid himself hadnt admitted to not going to the basket enough only the week before.

By John D.

November 16, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

Some players have a “dribble range” like they have a shooting range. Nique started to look uncomfortable to me after 3-4 dribbles (now he could cover a lot of floor in those) but in the half-court he handled the ball very, very well.

33.3% from 3-point range is the same as 50% from 2-point and there are only 2 players over 50% from 2-point range on the team.

JSmith is 20 years old; give him a bit of a break. Would hate to see all this negativity harm him here to the point he moved on to an all-star career on another team. He is the 4th leading scorer, tied for the lead in rebounding, 3rd in assists, 2nd in steals, and leads in blocks (double the next highest) – and is still only 20 years old. In the Seattle game he gave up the ball outside the free throw line to a guard but still ran him down in the open floor and saved a lay-up. Next offensive series he ran down another guard on the break, turnover or long rebound, and saved another lay-up. There are not many players in the league with that ability and desire. He moves much faster than he appears due to his loping manner and long stride, otherwise he could not catch the guards from behind as often as he does.

How about steals/turnovers? JJ is –12, Zaza is –13, Lue is –6, JC is –4, Speedy is –5 and Josh Smith is –7. Hard to quantify these numbers without touches included but the total is acceptable compared to the others. And Josh is only 20 years old, oh - I already mentioned that.

One day we will look upon this time as well spent in the development of an outstanding player.