Hawks

By Jay

October 9, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

“Williams wasn’t 6-10 and 250 pounds, which, for some unknown reason, I thought were his dimensions. He’s about the same height as Marvin Williams and Josh Smith. And only a few pounds heavier than either of those guys.”

Which is exactly why we shouldnt have drafted him. We already have TWO players with his build that are more athletic. Plus Childress is not far behind in height, and of course our other pick is an inch taller. End the Knightmare.

By Astro Joe

October 9, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

I am happy to have more frequent blog topics to discuss, especially since they are giving us insight from the man who gets to watch the practices and speak to the relevant parties.

Its all about attitude and mindset, not merely physical dimensions. There are too many examples of smaller guys who play big because that is their mindset (and vice versa). Brad Sellers was not a center. Neither is Nowitzki. JON should be but he chooses not to play that position. Is Josh Smith ready to play like a healthy Kenyon Martin just because they have comparable bodies? Ben Wallace is the same height as Marvin, does anyone think he is a SF? Anyone want to ask Marvin to play center? Would you whether have 6’7” Danny Fortson or 6’11” Eddie Curry go after a game-changing rebound?

People will argue about using the 5th pick on a guy who plays better with better players around him. Where a guy gets chosen becomes a non-discussion about 1 minute into the first game of the season. After that, its all about on-court production, not relative draft value. I supported drafting Shelden from about December of last year. I can’t and won’t deny it. So I’ll stick with him and I will continue to believe that his rookie year contributions will show up in the win/lost stats more so than in the scoring/block shots categories. When Arenas or Wade or Jameer or Felton decide to pull up for a 12 footer instead of driving the lane for a layup, that won’t show up in the box score next to Shelden’s name. Neither will the open look that he gets for Marvin or JJ when he sets a bone-rattling pick.

We have plenty of lightning, what this team needed was some thunder. I’m glad Shelden and Lorenzen are here to bring the noise.

By ATLien Player

October 9, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

They picked up Williams to be a force in the middle on DEFENSE. I think they had Detroit’s center Ben Wallace in mine. He’s about the same size but plays the middle well. When they go with a small lineup he will be the center. I look for good things from him THIS YEAR!

By A Thinking Fan

October 9, 2006 04:58 PM | Link to this

SS So Shelton has fundamentals, not Garnett stats with no real playoff wins? I think the Euros have proven what fundamentals can do for you…

By Lacsho

October 9, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this

I’m willing to admit that I gave this guy a hard time during the summer, but like Sekou said this guy will bang in the low post, and something else I notice he was very verbal on the court during defensive sets. Williams maybe the same size as Marvin and Josh, but he displays a presence down low. His game is totally different than the previous mention. I’ll have to pay closer attention to him when I go to the game on Saturday. Although Shelden has impressed me thus far, I still say we could have gotten him a little later. They say patience is a virtue, so I’m willing to wait and see what the future unfolds for us. During this preseason I don’t think we’ll see the Hawks full potential due to Speedy’s injury, but one thing I can say is I don’t see the Hawks starting this season like they did last year.

By Chris

October 9, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

Sekou, Thank you for continuing to bring some quality to the sports pages of the AJC. Your insight and quality journalism is appreciated. I will not be making any Hawks comments until the season begins. I have had high hopes in the past and I refuse to make any emotional or intellectual commitments until I see the product on the floor in meaningful competition. I am not excited about Sheldon Williams at all but I am looking forward to the continued maturation of Josh Smith. Josh has the potential to be a superstar and dominate games on both ends of the floor, which is a rare talent. The drafting of Josh Smith is the only thing that keeps me from being overly critical of Billy Knight.

By Samuel

October 9, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

Since we got a new thread here, I’ll make my comments here instead of the last one.

Cuz, you know I love you but I believe you’re off on “Big G”. I was sitting right behind the score’s table right next to the A-town dancers. I didn’t need any extra help, I already had four eyes. Now grant you, I have not been to all the practices so the guy may have played completely over his head. Just like Greece did against “Dream Team II”(ha ha)** but I doubt it. I know talent when I see it. He was the best low post player on the court, period wheather he makes the squad or not I don’t know but if BK and Woody cuts him and keeps the likes of Batista i’m giving up.

FOR THE LAST TIME Good defense is not all about blocking shots. Did you notice how he played the pick n roll, how he played help defense, how he kept his hands up at all times, how he blocked out. How many points did his man get? Obviously, not many. Sure he hit open jumpers but he also made the best post moves to the basket of anyone out there, got to the line and knocked down his freethrows. I believe he shot 81% last year in the DLeague. If he wasn’t the best low post player on the floor, tell me who was.

Yes, Sheldon did play well.

Also, Marvin needs to score more if we are going to play both he and Josh at the same time. We obviously will have to try to outscore people.

Woody said it right in that Sheldon is one of those players who plays better around a more structured setting and better talent but on the flip side of that Marvin looks like he may be one of those players who plays better in a more freelance setting around lesser talent. We’ll see.

Gotta Go, My Boy “Air McNair” is playin tonight Them Alcorn Braves Baby.

By G-Money

October 9, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

I agree with you Lacsho. I don’t see the Hawks starting this season like last year. I also believe that the Greek will stay so that the Hawks have a bit more versatility on both ends of the floor. You can never have enough fouls with Shaq on this side of the NBA. I also have to agree with the Ben Wallace reference. No one says Ben isn’t a bonafide center.

Still everything is relative. How much better did everyone else get? How much closer are we to the Celtics, Wizards, Cavs and Bucks? Can we knock off the teams we’re supposed to when we’re on the road and in Golden State or Portland?

Keep the info coming Sekou. It will give us lots to look for and look forward to as we near the season opener.

By John

October 9, 2006 06:30 PM | Link to this

Just because Shelden is the same height as Josh Smith and Marvin does not mean that he plays the same. Once again, people need to stop reading the box scores and roster measurements and complaining. Watch a game. Magic Johnson is a good bit taller than Charles Barkley, but did they have same game or play the same position. You need good players off the bench, and we have them. We don’t have an overabundance of wing players. I am getting tired of hearing about it. Shelden is what we needed, and we got him.

By Samuel

October 9, 2006 06:51 PM | Link to this

G-Money,

You need to retract that last statement. The Hawks are not “supposed” to beat anybody. Any time we win it’s an upset. Especially Golden State are you kidding me. You betta ask somebody. Nelly’s in Town. IT’S GETTN HOT IN HERE

BDiddy, JRich, and my boy MonTEE. The fastest 3 in the league in that Run and Shoot. Watch Out!!

By Remembering Roundfield

October 9, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

I liked the pick after the draft and I still like it because we need a player who does what Sheldon can do. Don’t get hung up on size.Think of it this way.We have some quicker outside 6’9s and some banger inside 6’9s, and we’re bound to cause somebody some match-up problems. I happen to think that BK has a great plan and one day the rest of the league will start to resemble our team (of course that will be after we win a few championships).

By Clyde

October 9, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

Sheldon will play better with better competition my butt. Please stop the madness.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By HB Ando

October 9, 2006 07:18 PM | Link to this

RR, we need someone to do for us, what Shelden did at Duke. It remains fairly questionable whether he has that skill level. Let’s not confuse college stats with professional projections. His numbers at Duke were better than Aldridge’s, at Texas. But no one thought he should be drafted ahead of him because of how he projected at “the next level”.

Joe, you’re sounding a bit disengenuous, and risking the health of your arm, patting yourself on the back. What you said all of last year is that you supported TRADING DOWN and selecting Shelden, at somewhere between 9-12, if I remember correctly. Trying to make yourself a prophet, on what was a truly misguided use of the fifth overall pick is just plain funny. I guess I should let you shine all the newbies on, without comment. But that just wouldn’t be much fun, and it wouldn’t get season 2 of the Blog off on the right foot, just between you and me…….

John, you really ought to wait until we see what Shelden can do before suggesting he’s just what we need. If all he can give us is 10 minutes a game, as the back up power forward, I can promise you that what we needed was far more productivity than that. For Shelden to get major minutes, 2 of the 3 players that are Marvin, Josh and Childress will have to sit during his court time, in most instances. Woody will play Johnson close to 40 minutes a game, because we’re just horrible without him on the floor. That leaves 8 SG minutes for Childress and Salim to juggle. Since Shelden can only play the four, any time he’s out there, it’s likely that Josh or Marvin is on the bench. I think Smith and Marvin will play around 32 minutes each, which means that either or both of them have to put in 16 at the four, if Childress plays zero at the 3.

It will truly be fascinating to see how the rotations work out. It will be the first new thing we have to talk about since signing Speedy and giving Harrington away for virtually nothing.

By Tyger

October 9, 2006 08:12 PM | Link to this

Good to hear that Shelden is doing well, I knew we drafted for “need” not potential, so hopefully we’ll get to talk more about production instead of “upside” for a change.

BK had it right, however, unsexy Shelden was at the time, we didnt need another teenage prodigy, we were young enough and Shelden had the best pedigree.

Kudos, BK and Shelden

By Richie Rich

October 9, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

Sheldon Williams is a shorter version of “Tree Rollins”….He will be in foul trouble every game he play’s….this isn’t Duke, where he got alot of favorable calls because of the teams reputation…He will not get those same calls here with the disrespect the Hawks get from the NBA officials.

By ray

October 9, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

Well Joe, sounds like someone still has a blue-vein throbber for you. Like a dog on an old bone…I’m beginning to think Ando wouldn’t even post here if he didn’t have you to go after. Ah yes, entertainment at it’s best. Gotta admit, saying you’re patting yourself on the back is like an old stove burner calling the whole collection of cookware black. Ha!

By ray

October 9, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

Sekou, surely you would have seen this coming…you can’t write anything positive about Shelden Williams without bringing out the “ghost of Draft Day past”. I can’t wait for the regular season to start. However, your recently continuous movement from one blog topic to another has been helpful.

By ray

October 9, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

I hope Woody really means it when he says he’s gonna release the hounds. That will definitely make it interesting to watch. Again, matchup exploitation will mean a lot.

By vdunkndunk

October 9, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

I watched two summer league games on tape and I was at the open practice on Saturday, and Shelden is one of the guys I tried to focus on.

I agree with Sekou and the coaches that the summer league environment wasn’t really one were Shelden could shine (I actually thought that before the summer league games even started), but with that being said it was still troubling to watch him struggle to get rebounds that I thought he should have had and to basically just look a little lost out there.

I do think he looked a bit better and more comfortable at the open practice, and he did some nice things, even showing a nice turn around jump shot from the base line. The only thing that bothered me was that he still seemed to struggle getting his shot off around the basket. I think he could afford to drop about 20 lbs and go with a sleeker, more athletic body.

I hope he comes out and proves me wrong, but I foresee him struggling at the beginning of the season. But I’m hoping he can come out and at least bring some defensive leadership, toughness, a mid-range baseline jumper, and some shotblocking and rebounding right from the beginning.

By reese

October 9, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this

Its amazing how several teams PR staff, coaches and beat writers are praising players for gaining pounds of muscle over the summer (i.e. channing frye, some guy named listen on the hornets).

I saw sheldon play 1 college game and he looked undersized. I saw him play in the summer league and he played undersized. Now, he practicing and scrimmaging against his teammates who are his own size and now he looks better.

Well, lets just hope that teams match down and play players who are his size as well. I’m not excited about sheldon williams, but now that he is a hawk, I’m willing to give him the opportunity to grow. I’m just not gonna expect too much from him this year and hope that he exceeds my expectations. Please don’t let him be another Alan Henderson.

By HB Ando

October 9, 2006 11:53 PM | Link to this

Ray, did you really type “blue vein throbber” on our blog?! I’m a little embarrassed for you old friend. But I wouldn’t have come back if I didn’t want to talk a little trash, so let’s go.

For those of you stuck on the idea that Indy is going to flop, you can book 45 wins for them. Don’t worry about taking notes, I’ll remind you all at the end of the season how many of you were wrong about the Pacers. They’ve got one of the top-five big men in the league. Al Harrington has a contract and will be playing for a team with playoff potential. I’m not a huge Al fan, but it seems like quite a few of you didn’t factor in that he was playing not to get hurt, for a franchise that made it clear, through it’s lack of player acquisitions during the season, that it had no interest in helping the guys on the floor, and absolutely no plans to re-sign him. They put him at power forward and drafted 2 guys that play the same position as he does. I wonder how many of you guys would put in full effort at work, when you know you’re on your last six months for your employer, and you’re essentially asked to train your replacements and not b*** to anybody (the public) about how you’re being treated. Look for Al Harrington to play with a chip on his shoulder. Grainger is about to bust out. They added a very talented Marquis Daniels, who can play, and defend, the point. They drafted two superior athletes in Shawne Williams and James White. They’re going to an up-tempo offense, and Jackson and Jasikevicius can both shoot the 3.

Ray, blue veined thro……..never mind.

By Jrock

October 10, 2006 12:23 AM | Link to this

Unfortunately the drafting of Sheldin Williams will take minutes away from Josh Smith and Marvin Williams. Josh looks to be primed for a breakout year and Marvin is ready to come into his own. I’m actually more eager to see Solomon Jones play. At 6-10 and athletic he seems to be an exciting prospect. Does the 7 foot Greek player have a good chance to make the team?

By vdunkndunk

October 10, 2006 01:09 AM | Link to this

The Greek guy was OK, nothing to get too excited about but definitely an intriguing prospect in terms of who can round out our last 2 roster spots. He had some decent post moves, he has legit size and he can run the floor OK, but he’s not all that athletic or all that strong and as a result he wasn’t a dominant rebounder. Sometimes he did some nice stuff in the open practice and sometimes he fell on the floor for no apparent reason.

By G Money

October 10, 2006 05:21 AM | Link to this

Hey HB Ando, I found myself agreeing with your last couple of blog entries. I thought it kind of interesting. Sekou, as for your piece on team chemistry…right on. I mentioned it this summer and still feel that with chemistry, cohesion and situationally appropriate coaching, our team can actually do a lot of damage. On another note, back to Sheldon…everyone mentions his height. There have been NBA rebounding leaders who were not close to being 7 footers (Rodman). There have also been effective forwards in the league who were actually undersized (e.g. Calvin Natt - Nuggets early 80’s). Besides, if anyone is reading anything at all outside of the ajc, you’ll see many of the teams creating new millenium teams without your traditional tallest guy in the middle, next tallest guy playing power forward, etc. Again, just let’s see how the players are going to be utilzed. And if I offended any GS fans (whoa), it was unintentional. And the daily updates are much appreciated.

By THL

October 10, 2006 07:51 AM | Link to this

To me, 6’9” is pretty close to 6’10” and that seems to be the demarcation point on whether we think someone can be a PF or SF. I really don’t think it matters that much. I see people say how can Josh or Shelden guard Duncan, Stoudemire, etc. I say, who can guard those guys effectively? Noone has yet if I recall. I think Shelden and Josh will hold their own guarding anyone who comes on the floor. If they are overmatched physically, that’s where help defense comes in. Shelden & Josh (along with the rest of this team) can run the floor well and that presents a matchup problem with other team’s PFs on the other end of the court. Shelden will do fine and will help this team at the 4 & 5 and I think we are in good shape there.

By Jim

October 10, 2006 08:52 AM | Link to this

Guys, comparing Shelden’s size and body with Marvin and Josh is absurd. Cause, you know, Magic Johnson and Bill Russell were clones of each other , right? I mean, they’re both 6-9. You can’t possibly have different skills if you’re the same height can you? Charles Barkley and Shawn Livingston are both 6-7 … They’re like twins, separated at birth. No room on the same team for them to play. End of sarcasm. Just realize we had 0 real power forwards on the team ( 1 if you count Batista) prior to Shelden. To say we drafted what we didn’t need is insane. No qualms with people saying he won’t be good … or that he’ll never put up his college #’s. Just stop it with the ” We’ve got too many 6-9 Players” garbage. We needed a PF banger and we got one.

By Astro Joe

October 10, 2006 09:28 AM | Link to this

Ray, Ando is right, I was hoping the hawks would trade down to get Shelden. But getting him was more important than where they got him.

And for the long-time bloggers, I hope you enjoyed Mr. Ando accusing someone of patting themselves on the back. That is an all-time goodie right there folks. Ando has had more plaster on his arms than Home Depot, as he tends to break something off with virtually every blog entry. Still pushing for Dwayne Jones as a better 59th pick Ando?

Let the games begin (and the season).

By jhan

October 10, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this

Maybe that’s why AL didn’t get the big contract he was looking for. If he put this team on his back & willed them to victories maybe he would have received more money. How about if he got a rebound or a bid defensive stop at a crucial part of the game. If he was that good, perhaps the Hawks would have built their team around him instead of drafting 2 players to take his minutes.

By newkid

October 10, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Whether he was the ‘best’ pick @ 5 or not will likely long be a question in many minds, but Shelden’s here and it looks like he could help. I was impressed with Shelden’s apparent commitment to playing position defense in Saturday’s scrimmage, and how talkative he was on the defensive end. Didn’t appear to me that he was quite 6’9”, but why quibble over fractions of an inch.

Josh Smith’s 3-point stroke looked really good on Saturday, and he continues to play super weak side defense. On the other hand he clearly needs to improve his ball-handling if he’s to play many minutes at SF. Marvin’s on ball defense was quite aggressive (I counted 3 blocks, all from an on ball position rather than from the weak side). Marvin’s handle and jumper were both impressive enough to suggest that he could be effective in limited duty at the 2 spot.

Disappointed that we didn’t get a chance to see just a little of Solomon Jones Saturday. I was also disappointed that Solomon, even though injured, could be repeatedly seen checking his cell phone for incoming calls during the workout. Someone needs to get a hold of the kid and help him become a professional before he adopts too many bad habits.

By G-Money

October 10, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

I have a question for those bloggers who saw the Hawks (new edition). How much better do you feel that they are at this point in the season? Newkid, thanks for the assessment. Astro Joe, that was pretty funny. I’m sure the reply will be as amusing.

By newkid

October 10, 2006 04:31 PM | Link to this

G-Money, as early as it is, AND without Speedy on the court, I’d find it difficult to assess the degree to which the team may be better (at this point) compared to this period last season. At most, the session may have allowed one to make specific observations on individual attributes, however not much could be surmised regarding the team’s overall improvement (or not).

In addition to the player observations offered above, I’ll add a few more. The Greek kid was more active on the offensive and defensive ends than anything I’d ever seen from Edwards. An interesting aside about him; he appears to either have an old shoulder injury or a congenital condition that makes it appear as if one of his arms is less well developed than the other. It almost appeared that one arm might be noticeably shorter than the other, although his game didn’t appear to be any worse for it. Hope he makes the squad. Other than him, I didn’t see much in the way of likely ‘new’ help from the FAs in camp.

My buddy and I compared notes after the session, and we had similar thoughts about Chilz (i.e., ‘where’s the progress in his body and/or his game?’). This was only one session, but he looked/played much the same as we’ve come to expect.

Final thought: JJ is a horse!

By HB Ando

October 10, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

Jhan, you’re chicken and egging that issue. Harrington knew he was gone the minute they drafted Marvin Williams. Risking a career-ending injury to help a team that won’t go out and sign and big men, during a woeful season, would have been pointless. He knew where he was going. He just didn’t count on getting is contract squeezed by the cap situations across the league. He gets his 66 if management made any effort to acquire talent. Their refusal to take on salary (though stupid ideas like Troy Murphy were wisely ignored) limited both parties negotiation leverage.

Joe, your attempts at wise, old sage are merely old. If this were a hockey blog we could go ahead and drop the gloves right here. Not only would I still have taken Dwayne Jones, I still would have taken Chris Paul. But I didn’t get my way on Paul. You, however, got your way on Williams. So when he turns out to be a flop, make sure you stand tall and take full credit for some weak-a* armchair GM work. Watch #’s 6 and 7 become 10-15 year starters, with one of them being the ROY. Watch O’Bryant (it will take a few years) become a shot-blocking, rebounding force, which is what we were supposed to be looking for when we took Williams. Watch Shelden, though I’m not minimizing the talent and hard work it takes to do so, be a career back up. It’s not his fault, after all, that Knight made the reprehensible decision to draft him where no other team in the NBA would have. As far as Billy Knight is concerned some of you seem to have the victim’s syndrome where you defend your abuser. I can’t figure it out to save my life. But he’ll be gone one of these days, and, hopefully, replaced by someone who is qualified to run an NBA franchise.

By jhan

October 10, 2006 06:24 PM | Link to this

HB, it seems to me there is no real resolution to the chicken & egg issue. I personally liked AL and thought he was a solid player for this team. I do feel that both Josh & Marvin will be better players in the long run. I hope you are proven wrong on your theories, not because I don’t respect them, I even agree with the majority of them, but if you are proven wrong then the Hawks will have a good year. Nice to see you back in action.

By ray

October 10, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

Ando, see my reply on the newer blog about Speedy.

By Tony

October 10, 2006 11:41 PM | Link to this

I hope Williams has a good career bottom line Knight F** up again. (last year passing on Chris Paul) I would have personally went after Randy Foye or Brandon Roy We would still lack the inside presence but do you know how many big men will be in this years upcoming draft? Greg Oden, Noah just to name a few now how many of you would prefer Sheldon over next years crop of draft players? My point exactly

By The Flash

October 11, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

Well, well, well, it seems astroman and andoman are well rested and in rare form, and hitting hard as are any a number of you and its only the beginning of preseason so I’m figuring that things have to be looking up. Still have trouble deciphering some of what “Sam I am” has to say; I understood everything you said about somebody you refer to as “G” my friend; just don’t have a clue who that is.

I think that there will be way more minutes for Childress and Shellie than Andoman predicts, that is, if they produce, and I expect both to surprise, and that Smooth, MW, JJ, and Speedy will all be the better for it. On the other hand, Andoman does have his points; Astroman’s answer since I’ve been on this blog has always been the same, BK got our man, so what if he … .

Those “so what’s” cost, Astroman, that’s what’s “so what,” and Andoman is tired of misplays; don’t feel we can afford em; don’t feel like we should afford em. Given all the excusin for sitting on Al all last season, playing without a true point or a much needed big, having Al taking up space, missed opportunities, can’t say I disagree with him.

On the other hand, Andoman, I ain’t never seen Astroman so eloquent as in his first posting on this blog. He got his guy Shellie, and I genuinely am happy for him. Think it might well work out. Me, I’d rather have Roy, as in much, and, failing that, missing on Farmar just makes me sick.

By ray

October 11, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

Considering how things are supposedly going legally, you may not have much more time to complain about Knight. If they could get anywhere near a conclusion, my money’s on Belkin (although I don’t take or make real bets) and he will clean house, mayabe even the coach. You never know.

By Doctor Mu

October 12, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

Basketball is more about skills and size than athleticism. Otherwise our International play over the past decade would be dominant, and it isn’t. Shelden go skills. Real skills. Stuff you build around. He will be an excellent power forward in the NBA