Hawks

By Jimmy

October 6, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

More proof that the NBA is full of thugs! If only good character would bring wins to Atlanta, then we might have an exciting & winning team this year.

By Traceman

October 6, 2006 05:19 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I really love your work and I respect your opinion a lot but I wouldn’t go so far as to say that an incident like that WON’T happen here. I sure hope it doesn’t but it certainly could. I agree with you 100% that Billy has went out and found a lot of high character guys and I commend him for that but there is always that element of society out there who “hates on” athletes and as a result, sometimes athletes find themselves in precarious positions when dealing with that element of society. I have personally witnessed a situation in this town where a prominent athlete was trying to mind his own business and yet he ended up in an altercation that he was clearly trying to avoid.

I don’t know what happened in Indy (Jax or one of the other players may have started the altercation for all I know) but let’s just hope that our guys don’t find themselves in a situation similar to the one the Pacers’ players found themselves in.

By A-Town Vet

October 6, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

Really can you blame Jackson for this incidence. From all reports he tried to walk away and the guys still foloowed him . after he was hit twice by the guy( fist and car) he fired five shots in the air; not at the man. In our neighboring stae Florida is is legal for an individual to use any force needed if they feel threaten.

By The Flash

October 6, 2006 06:23 PM | Link to this

Sekou, my man, Indy’s coach ain’t no soft touch. Ricky is a pretty strict task master. Can’t lay this behavior on him or Larry. It is the guys.

BK did good getting quality people who are also quality players. I agree with the other poster who said it still could happen here. It could. Lots of these guys carry weapons; it almost goes with the bling and the fact that they really are walking targets. Lots of good guys have found themselves in real trouble of one form or another. Let’s hope it doesn’t hit here, but let’s not condemn anybody if it does.

This league is moving away from the direction of shut down defenses, to shut down in spots and controling tempo and making teams take shots that are not their favorites, keeping it close, when making those not so favorite shots under pressure, with an added dial up or tweak to the defense, produces stops in the right places and the right times. My concern is that Woody might not be a man of these times, at least as I see them.

By David

October 6, 2006 06:26 PM | Link to this

Gentleman’s club? Thats an outdated term and ignorant. No Gentlemen would go to a STRIP CLUB and has no need. Don’t bring good people down to your level.

By The Flash

October 6, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

Everybody knows the difference between strip clubs and gentlemen’s clubs; in the first you use ones, in the second, they laugh at ones. And the attire, if much finer at the latter too. Now, if they drew a distinction based on real or not, I might even try to clean up my act enough to pass for a gentleman. Yeah, I know thinkingman, but no chance I get called on that one, you ever see realies these days?

By Samuel

October 6, 2006 07:09 PM | Link to this

Touchy Subject I see,

First of all Cuz, I wouldn’t say that this won’t happen in Atlanta either. Strip club patrons cut across all walks of life. And the weapons also. Now-a-days pretty much everyone is pack’n. Watched the news lately? Every other Tom,Dick and Harry is pulling out the “heat” and playing cop.

And I still say, playing Basketball for a living aint really work

I’ve known guys who worked 8-10 hours laying brick in 100 degree Mississippi heat,stayed up all night drank’n Bumpy Face or Ole Crow and still “hit it” the next day for 20 or 30 years. Now that’s freekin amazing.

By dewan lee

October 6, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

Lets not judge a man for going to the club. Also he should be commended for firing in the air not wanting to spend his time in jail like Rae Carruth. People act like the club is so bad but it is legal so stop hating. I mean we have people out here smoking , passing second hand smoke, and drinking before getting behind the wheel but we write a blog to appear so righteous. Me personally I dont drink, smoke, or any other drugs but if the wife lets me I will go out to a strip club, gentlemen’s club, caboret, picture place, or whatever you want to call it, cause that’s my prerogative. Now the clowns who would strike a man with a vehicle need help since they dotn value another’s life. More than likely it was a case of jealousy. Who caes if someone has more money than you do. I would be happy. When my buddies get promoted to Major and higher in the Army I am hapy for them but I keep working hard so one day God willing I will reach those same pinnacles. Just pray for the Peace and stop judging.

By Clyde

October 7, 2006 12:15 AM | Link to this

Why are basketball players considered thugs when they try to defend themselves? If fans would just leave them alone stupid stuff like this wouldn’t happen. How come Ron Artest is considered a thug but the man that threw something at him isn’t?

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Nesha from Omaha

October 7, 2006 01:51 AM | Link to this

Yeah It might not happen in Atlanta cause most of the players on the team are younger than 22 or 23 years old. The Hawks are young and they know better than to be out on a week night. They know that they need to be focused on building their game and winning at least 35 to 40 games. Anyway, their reputation has been good thus far.

By ray

October 7, 2006 04:35 AM | Link to this

Dewan Lee, I don’t see this as hating on clubs or even trying to appear to be righteous. This is about responsibility for individuals in unique positions and situations. Yeah, plenty of things are your prerogative. AND your responsibility to accept the consequences of your actions and the results of decisions and judgements you make. So what happens when your wife gets sick of you going to strip clubs (no matter how many times she said it was okay and let you go) and uses her prerogative to throw you out and take more than half of anything you EVER owned? Well, at least you have your prerogative left, right? Yeahhhh…that’s all that matters…

It’s a shame that this happened to these guys, but we don’t know the true nature of the story because we weren’t there. In spite of what you should be able to do without having to deal with stuff like that, you also have to consider the possibilities when subjecting yourself to such an atmosphere and the patrons therein. You can argue it both ways, but to me responsibility outweighs the individual rights and priveleges that we all too often focus on. You simply cannot ignore the fact that fame and notoriety can bring you trouble especially at a club in the wee hours of the morning. So, if you already know this, is it wise to go anyway? A rhetorical question to be sure. But after an incident like this, would it be wise to head right back into the same kind of situation? Like I said, just rhetorical questions. As for firing shots into the air, that may sound like he was trying to warn the guys off without shooting anybody (if that’s what really happened) but….the bullets still go somewhere. And falling bullets have plenty of speed, not a whole lot less than when they left the barrel. Not safe. I’ve seen some ugly cases where innocent people have fallen prey to bullets “fired into the air.” The simple fact is, you can point a gun at nobody and still hit somebody, just because you don’t know where that bullet ended up.

Hopefully none of our guys finds themselves in that kind of situation. The best way to do it, however unpopular, is to not give yourself an opportunity to get into stuff. Like Sekou said, when you’ve got two-a-days and what not going on, how can you have the energy to be out and about in the not-so-stable night life? I’d be late to practice every day, and callin’ in sick some of the time.

By jhan

October 7, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

He should be commended for firing a handgun in the air in public? Are you out of your mind? What if one of those stray bullets had hit you or one of your family members? Would you be the first in line to commend him?! I have no knowledge of SJackson belonging to any police department so what he did is clearly a violation of the law just like the guy who tried to run him over.

By Samuel

October 7, 2006 06:03 PM | Link to this

Let’s get back to basketball.

I want to thank Woody, BK and the boys for allowing a hoops junkie to get a bird’s eye view of this year’s team. Now my comments can have a little more cred after watching a full practice.

My impressions after todays workout

The Big guy, Glyniadakis, is a definate keeper. At first I was worried during warm ups. He’s kinda lacking in the footspeed department but the big guy has some “nice” moves on offense and is very smart defensively. He definately has played a lot of basketball and should get some real minutes this year. I’m serious, he looked damn good.

I would keep Chalmers over Ivey. He’s a very smart player on both ends and handles the ball much better than either Ivey or Salim. Matter of fact, when Speedy comes back, I would move Lue for another 2 guard. Salim is a decient player but he’s gonna have problems getting shots off against big guards. He small and weak. Chalmers is much stronger.

Sheldon looked better than I expected him to. I think eventually he’s gonna be pretty good. He’s good around the basket as advertised.

Freije looked good but I’m not sure there’s gonna be a spot for him, assuming we keep Jones. He(Jones)looks kinda thin. He may be better off in the D-League.

The other two bigs were also impressive, especially Dickens. I also liked Bozeman’s quickness to the basket and on-ball defense. I can’t see him making the top 12, but definately a D-leaguer.

I’m not sure Marvin and Josh will be able to start together unless we play some serious “small ball”. I can’t see either of them guarding NBA 4’s but I could be wrong. Josh looked good shooting from the outside. I couldn’t tell much about his post up game. He stayed on the outside. I hate to say it but Marvin didn’t impress me. He has gained more confidence but he didn’t show me that much. He should be better than last year though.

Childress looked very good. He stayed within himself by driving hard to the basket and finishing strong.

Here’s my 12: 1. JJ 2. Za Za 3. Marvin 4. Josh 5. Shelden 6. Speedy 7. Childress 8. Glyniadakis 9. Lo 10.Lue 11.Chalmers 12.Dickens

Inactive: Batista Jones Freije

Starting 5 for now

Za Za Marvin Josh JJ Lue

We’ll see how that works. the key is the PF position. If it doesn’t, I wouldn’t hesitate to start the big guy, Glyniadakis at center and Za Za at PF with marvin and Josh splitting time at the 3 and 4. I’m serious.

By JohnD

October 7, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this

The Indiana players are supposed to be “Professionals”, at least any time the NBA players have the opportunity to describe themselves that is the term they use. Many of them most certainly do not act as professionals.

Stephen Jackson has all the indications of a thug and “pretty much everyone is packin” is no excuse for placing himself in position to NEED a gun. My dear deceased mother told me “Nothing good happens after 1:00 in the morning” and she was correct.

Ron Artest was a thug long before he was hit with a beer and is a classic example of all that is wrong with the NBA. When Artest’s playing days are over all those out-of-wedlock children will become the burden of the taxpayers. Where will he funnel all that rage after basketball? Perhaps at one of you that is defending these guys now.

All you defenders of these punks need to open your eyes and see the increasing number of bums involved in professional sports. Being athletic does not also give someone character, a sense of propriety or necessarily the ability to know right from wrong. I know, “They have a lot of money at a young age, they come from broken homes, they did not have a father in their life and on and on and on” – those are not reasons they are excuses. Until people stop making excuses for these guys they will continue to act like jerks and spoiled children.

Be thankful Billy Knight has a program filled with high character players and also hope that if any of them act like Stephen Jackson, Ron Artest or any of the other jerks in the NBA then they will be on to some other team.

By stoned mountain

October 7, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

David, Sekou was speaking tongue in cheek, when he called the strip joints gentlemen’s clubs. I see the irony was wasted on you. Keep up, stay focused, man…

By ray

October 8, 2006 03:22 AM | Link to this

Sam, thanks for the comments and observations. It was nice to have some info on how things are going camp-wise and how players are performing. I didn’t know Dickens was even invited to training camp. I have also been thinking (and saying) we should keep Chalmers, particularly if we don’t have any other pg plans in the near future. The fact is, you can’t keep trying to make guys handle the ball when they’re not particularly adept at it or committed to it. Salim better work on that skill if he doesn’t want to become another version of Tony Delk. Like you said, against bigger defenders who also have the speed/quickness…well, you better hope Shelden comes out from the post to set a solid pick. I know Salim can shoot, but he has to find a way to consistently impact the game. He has to be a threat all the time, not some of the time. He’s gotta be like Vinnie “the microwave” Johnson. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Chalmers and Childress coming off the bench at the pg and sg spots so that the tempo can stay up. As for the big G (Glyniadakis) if you say he’s got skills then we should MOST DEFINITELY keep him. There’s a little offensive post presence to go with Wright and Pachulia. Not to mention a big body in the lane on defense. How can you ignore that?

What happened with Andre Brown? Wasn’t he supposed to be hitting the hardwood with these fellas?

By G Money

October 8, 2006 05:28 AM | Link to this

Like Ray I too appreciate hearing about the scrimmage. I also echo the feelings about keeping Chalmers and Glyniadakis. It would be sad if Salim hasn’t grown over this past season. It would be good to know that Sheldon is “really” a keeper and that Marvin and the Josh’s are improving. From the way it sounds, we could be significantly better than last year. On another note I’ve got some inside info that says the Hornets are going to surprise a lot of teams if they all stay healthy. Already they are much improved over last year.

By Samuel

October 8, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

Chalmers actually was the best floor leader on the court on Saturday, including Lue. He played like a man in charge. Not one fighting for a roster spot. He didn’t shoot much but he got the ball to people in “their” spots and ran the offense like he’s been here for years. Lue shot the ball better but Chalmers was the best leader.

Our defensive intensity is way way up. Marvin did impress me in this area. He was guarding Josh all day. Matter of fact they were “check’n” each other and it was very competitive on both ends.

Andre Brown was there and he did look good. I just think Dickens looked a little better, personally.

I think our offense needs to spread the floor a little more. That way our players will have more room to operate and cut down on turnovers. One thing that really “struck” me about the NBA game that I was not aware of is how big these guys really are. The lane was constantly clogged up. Even JJ had trouble making moves to the basket because of this.

I think this may be a rule change down the road. Adopting the international lane. I know it looks funky and will appear to be cowering down to the Euro’s and all, but as these guys get bigger and bigger the floor(especially the lane area) will get smaller and smaller.

OVERALL:

The Hawks looked good. Of course they were playing the Hawks but they impressed me. We still need a low post scoring big. The big Greek will help but I don’t think Wright will do much on that angle. He’s not skilled enough. He’ll get some put backs but not a person to run the offense thru IMO.

I really wished I could have seen Speedy play. If he can run the team anywhere near what Chalmers can(obviously he can, I hope) I think we’ll be OK. How it translates to wins, I can’t say.

By John

October 8, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

I was at the scrimmage and I like keeping Royal. I thought he went at it the hardest during drills and is very solid on defense. Chalmers looked pretty good, but he is not really what we need. Royal is a good on the ball defender, and we NEED defense. I thought everyone looked pretty good. I would not say Glyniadakis is a definate keeper. He looked ok. I would take my chances with Solomon Jones. We need interior defense and I think he will definately be able to block some shots.

By ILL-logical

October 8, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Saw the scrimmage saturday and read today’s SS article and here are my conclusions:

1.SS and BK are making a BIG mistake lobbying for MW to start. He is really good BUT is a 3 ,period! But he is not so good that you move JSmooth to 4 where he has to contend with the Timmys,Dwights and Amares of the NBA world on a regular basis.In a perfect world MW would be able to serve a 2-3 year appranticeship a la Kobe before being asked to take the burden of being the # 2 pick of his class and therefor ,because of $ and ego, be thrust into a potentially disruptive posture. IJS.

2.If the Hawks win 40 games-my max perdiction- it will be because of defense. Me likke thier energy in that department.

1. The chemistry looks good; they are a hard working bunch. Also As others have noted, the Greek guy looked sevicable, a keeper but the blond guy from Vanderbilt we may have to give him a closer look.

By vdunkndunk

October 8, 2006 02:03 PM | Link to this

I was at the scrimmage also and agree with a lot of what was said above, except that I thought Marvin looked great. He was blocking shots all over the place and getting in the lane at will, even finishing after being fouled. He’s so quick and handles the ball so well for a 6’8 guy with that much athleticism, so I think he’s going to make a living at the foul line. He also made an incredible pass on a fast break. Personally I think this guy is ready to have a good season this year.

By Samuel

October 8, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

John,

What exactly did Ivey do that impressed you. He got very limited minutes(5 to be exact) and showed me nothing.

If we don’t keep the Big Guy who do we keep. He was the 3rd leading scorer and played good defense. He is one of only 2 true low post scorers on the team. Za Za being the other. How do you know Jones is better. Did you see him. We need somebody to give us minutes right now.

ILL-LOGICAL,

I’m like you on Marvin. I think Josh is ahead of him right now. I can’t see either guy guarding a 4. They’re just not big enough. But I guess he’ll have to start unless we start “Big G” at center and Za Za at power foward and I doubt that will happen.

I also wouldn’t have a problem keeping Freije. He can definately score the basketball. I wouldn’t keep him over the Big Fella however. Maybe over Dickens but not “Big G” or Chalmers.

vdunkndunk,

How many points did Marvin score. He looked frustrated to me. He did play good defense on a small foward.

By doc

October 8, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

samuel agree with the ivey thing, the only thing he brings is some defense in a bigger package. he has shown he is a joke as a one because he cant shoot and draw anyone to him so it is always 5 defenders on four scorers, bad odds. thanks for the “look” at the scrimmage.

flash caught your drift from the last post as always bringing game. still id like to have roy as you would instead of williams especially if the big boy is capable of doing more than what we have seen out of past post players.

like the idea of bringing in chalmers instead of ivey, would have been nice to have roy for his all around game with that the seven footer and zaza with lo down deep with one of those guys able to come to the four in times of need. wishful thinking and still behind sheldon as i think he will come around but am anxious to see if roy doesnt come up with some big rook numbers.

By HB Ando

October 8, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

Man, I take a big break, hoping there’s some new ground to cover, and I get back in time to read Sam’s observation that confirms what I was saying at the beginning of the summer: there is an inherent problem here with Josh and Marvin. They’re both 3’s. So you can play your five best players, which easily include those two, for major minutes, and you will likely continue to lose. Or you can underutilize, and subsequently make unhappy, one of these very talented young players. Without a seriously stout defensive anchor, you can’t win playing both of them for major minutes. And instead of drafting a future solution at the five, like an O’Bryant, we took Shelden.

I say play them both and develop their talents on the court. We’re not seriously looking at a playoff slot this year, despite the overly generous predicitions of some of the less realistic or insightful folks here. It’s pretty obvious (said it four months ago), that one of them must develop the skills to defend the four, or, ultimately, one of them will move on in the next few years. Only way to find out if either can evolve into that role, is to put them on the floor and challenge them to defend the four. But you can’t bench either of them, when they realistically represent your 2nd and 3rd offensive options this year. Speedy is a life-time 40% shooter, with 15-foot range, so his job is to push tempo and distribute. This team goes no where with either of these two sitting.

Billy drafted long and lean and the coach he brought in was charged with winning with those picks. I challenge the organization to win with Billy’s blueprint, or admit it can’t work and look to re-balance this lineup through trades. We’ve got 4 really good players (OK, one is great), in Johnson, Childress, Marvin and Josh, who play 2 positions. Our backups at the 2 and 3 are arguably better, at their respective positions, than our starters at the 1,4 and 5 (if neither Josh or Marvin end up starting at the four).

When you’re most talented lineup doesn’t give your team the best chance to win, then the front office has to make some changes to balance things out. I still don’t see where Childress is going to get many minutes, unless Josh or Marvin are playing significant minutes at the four. And if that happens, like I’ve been saying since the draft, then we drafted Shelden, who’s value was supposedly his ability to come in right away and represent the blocks and rebounds we needed in the paint, to provide 10-15 minutes backing up either Josh or Marvin at the four. We’ve already defined that he’s not a five. And he’s not going to play ahead of Zaza or Wright either. From my projected rotations, he just doesn’t have a role that justifies his selection at five. The two guys taken just after him will both vie for rookie of the year. Either of them were versatile enough to place in the backcourt with Johnson and see the team being better on both ends of the floor, than they will be this season.

They will win between 31-34 games, and, if that’s correct, will hopefully get a solid shot at retaining their top-3 pick, where the center that can save them, will be waiting. I still believe that, ironically, Billy’s decisions will prove so poor, that we’ll luck into retaining that pick, where he will draft a savior, and end up looking like he had it planned all along. That’s about as optimistic as I can be about the upcoming season.

They might as well play Marvin and Josh, along with JJ. That will be the most exciting product, which will hopefully keep the fans engaged. If I was marketing this team, that’s what I’d be focusing on: “Come see 3 superstars as they begin their emergence as dominant forces in the NBA!”. Sell the sizzle, ‘cause if you sell this teams’ potential to make the playoffs this year, you’ll lose your fan base by the all-star break, as it becomes readily apparent that we’re still a bottom-dweller, and ownership has sold them a bill of goods. Put the fans attention on the individual exploits of these three versatile players and get the focus off of winning this year. It’s not happening. Not unless they make a strong move, trade-wise, early in the year. Problem is that you can’t look to move Marvin or Josh until either is up for a max-contract, where you can match up salaries in bringing in a top player who addresses a position of need (again, only if neither can become the solution at the four).

Seems like Josh would be the more obvious choice to develop into a four, to me. But it also seems pretty obvious that he’s less willing to change his individual career arc, by playing out of position to help the team, than what I expect Marvin would be willing to contribute. I said it months ago, and I’ll say it again: there’s too much money at stake for a young guy to limit his individual development and productivity (which is what brings in the accolades and endorsement dollars), by agreeing to spend many years, playing for a moribund franchise, out of position. If these guys, and their handlers, see themselves at small forwards, no amount of cajoling by the organization, to bail out Billy, will change that fact.

It would be really nice to hear what Woody and Billy think about this issue, and how they intend to handle it during the course of the year. I know I’ve been out of the loop, but are we any closer to identifying whether the plan is to start them together, with either Wright or Zaza at the five?

Sam, thanks for the insight and for setting up the hoops league. Looking forward to it.

By HB Ando

October 8, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this

And what is up with Charlott’s willingness to do a sign-and-trade with Ely, and our franchise nowhere in the mix?! This is a guy we identified at the beginning of last year as an intriguing prospect, with really good post skills, to address what we were missing. Yet here he is unsigned, and arguably better, than any of the big men we have right now. Send ‘em Shelden and Josh Childress for Wallace and Ely.

Here’s a question for folks who have been watching these practices: does Zaza look better than last year? Is there reason to believe he’ll do a better job of converting those close-in looks he missed regularly last year? I mean he is only 22, so he should still be improving.

I’m just dying to hear something official on expected line-ups and rotations. Then we’ll have something new to talk about.

Just bought my ESPN fantasy hoops package. Looking to win a league championship for the ninth year in a row. And ready to watch, and talk, some serious BALL!

By Astro Joe

October 8, 2006 08:11 PM | Link to this

Take this with a grain of salt, as I was the guy who predicted that all of the tinkering Miami did last off season would render them less effective than the previous year. So here’s another bold prediction… Indiana is in trouble.

When I look at their line-up, I can’t figure out why any team wouldn’t play a tight zone against them for 48 minutes a game. Who are their perimeter players? They have a squad full of guys who score most effectively in the paint. Their best perimeter scorer is shooting guns in the wee hours of the night after playing with strippers.

Thanks everyone for the commentary from the scrimmage. Hopefully having real competition at multiple positions will force everyone to step up and reach new levels of performance. Rotations will work themselves out. We have enough pieces that we should be able to match up at critical portions of the game with virtually every team in the league.

One more thing, imagine just for a second if the Hawks had lost to a European team like the 76ers did a few days ago. You know, the team with AI (who many wanted us to acquire), Iguodala (who some believe is head and shoulders better than Childress) and Dalembert (a true, young athletic center). Imagine how fans would have called for BK’s head on a platter. The talk of being the embarrassment of the league. Imagine what some of out favorite resident bloggers would have said. Kind of funny to imagine all the talk that would have had people believing that something that disasterous could only happen to one franchise, the Hawks.

By A Thinking Fan

October 8, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this

All the boyzs are back in town: AJ, Doc, HB, & Flash!

GO HAWKS!!!

By Wedgie Evans

October 8, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

Yeah, you are right, the Hawks don’t strike me as having the kind of players who are gonna go shooting up nightclubs at 3 AM (not even the Uruguayan Undertaker). But honestly, if someone tried to run me over with their car and I was strapped, I would have let some shots loose too. Based on what I read about the incident, I can’t say that I blame Stephen Jackson for reacting that way.

By Samuel

October 8, 2006 09:12 PM | Link to this

Ando,

That’s not fair. Kinda like bett’n on both sides. How can you lose with two teams? I thought we were priority. Oh Well?

I can’t see how we are gonna start ZaZa, Marvin and Josh as a front court. We’ll get crushed inside. Josh has “bulked up” but his game has moved exclusively to the perimeter.

That wouldn’t be a good trade for Charlotte. The only way they trade Wallace is for a scorer at 2 guard. We don’t really have anything they want, other than JJ. They got Okafur, May, Harrington, Herrmann, and Morrison at foward why take on Sheldon.

What about talking to Phoenix about Kurt Thomas or Denver about KMart.Did Maurice Taylor sign with anybody yet?

By HB Ando

October 8, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this

I believe Mo Taylor signed with Sac.

Joe, I can’t imagine the Hawks losing to a Euro team could do much to lessen my already rock-bottom opinion of Billy Knight. But it has less to do about Billy, and more about the recognition that the rest of the world has caught up to us in hoops proficiency. I mean if our national team can’t win a world championship, why would anyone be surprised that a team that didn’t make the NBA playoffs last year would lose an exhibition game to a Euro squad. Let’s not be so naive to think that Philly showed up with the same level of intensity as the Euro squad. It was a scrimmage for Philly, and, conversely, it was likely the most important game Barcelona has ever played, if you were to get an honest opinion from their players.

Sam, you’re right that wouldn’t be a good trade for Charlotte. Yet Childress and Williams were 6th and 5th picks, overall. I believe Wallace was a late first rounder, and Ely was mid-teens. So much for the value of Billy’s picks.

Of course it’s that very glut of forwards that makes Ely expendable. So it seems it would be worth while to seek the guy out, as I’m of the opinion that he’s a more skilled 4/5 than Zaza, Wright or Shelden, or anyone else that will play those positions for us this year.

By HB Ando

October 8, 2006 11:37 PM | Link to this

And a big “What Up” to you too, ATF!

By reese

October 9, 2006 12:59 AM | Link to this

Thanks to all for the preview of the workout and scrimmage. I’ll hold off comment about the players until I’ve had a chance to see them play. Besides, I’ve never seen chalmers, dickens, the greek guy or many of the other camp invitees.

I have to agree with Astro Joe that there would have been several individuals claiming for BKs head if the hawks lost. But, one has to look at the career moves of the GM and not just one game (not sure that I’m helping his case with that statement). I remember when a Dominique Wilkins lead team lost to the Russians in the late 80s. However, that team still made it to the playoffs. Additionally, several of the russian players ended up playing in the NBA.

I guess my point is the following. Several post game interviews and press clippings state that the international players have caught up to the NBA. However, I would contend that several of the NBA players are college age players, players who have not learned the fundamentals because they did not play 4 years of college or they skipped college or just were never taught the basics. This in turn has brought down the level of play in the NBA for several of its teams.

Woodson keeps stressing that he wants defense. That is so short sighted. I want defense, offense, ability to make free throws and yes a balanced roster of players who know the fundamentals.

As far as Stephan Jackson goes, I never liked his game when he was with the hawks and Indiana can have him. However, I cannot criticize his attempt to leave the club and his reaction to defend himself.

By Lacsho

October 9, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

Random Rumblings About Saturday’s Scrimmage

I was at the scrimmage Saturday, and Josh looked ok, but he played real lazy. My son and I both notice know movement from Josh on Offense. The only thing Josh did was stand on the wing. Shelden was trying to bang down low, but Josh wouldn’t go down low. Marvin clearly outplayed Josh. Marvin really looks good. The Greek guy should be a keeper; He has a nice all around game, and he’s not scared to bang down low. Joe Johnson looked really good. Salim was ok, but Royal was in his jock strap on defense. Salim’s defense is still suspect. I hope speedy recovers fast, and I hope he can stay healthy a whole season. Joe Johnson looked good; he’s on another level. I just don’t understand why J-smoove wouldn’t take it to the whole. Again, Shelden surprised me, Lo Wright looked ok, but the Greek guy looked better than any low post player, on that day. I asked Coach Woodson if he was going to release the hounds (let them run), and his reply was “oh yes”. I think it going to be tough for Woodson to decide who he’s going to keep. I wish Solomon wasn’t hurt. I think the Hawks will have a decent season.

By jhan

October 9, 2006 09:22 AM | Link to this

Glad to hear that Woodson will have some options on who to keep. Much better than previous offseasons where he was just looking for anybody with a pulse. I like the competition for playing time. That can only help this squad. Can’t wait to see how everything unfolds this season. First time in a while that I have any optimisim whatsoever!

By Maurice

October 9, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

Josh Smith didn’t work the paint because he’s still trying to develop his outside shot to become an all around player. We know he can dunk and get into the paint and so does every team in the league but can he shoot outside? As for Salim. If you noticed that he didn’t play at the end of the season last year you would have realized that he was out due to injury. I would think he will need some time to get his legs under him. Oh and he’s also a second year player compared to Ivey, who’s been here for a while.

By Sekou K. Smith

October 9, 2006 11:10 AM | Link to this

I wished I’d have known so many of you were at the scrimmage. We could have all sat together and yapped about what was going on.

I disagree with anyone who says the Hawks can’t start Josh Smith and Marvin. You can start whatever combination of players you want as long as you have reserves at the position to help take up some of the slack.

Starting Josh and Marvin won’t be a huge problem because you have Lo Wright and Shelden on the roster this year as well. I’d argue that there weren’t dirty work guys like that in Hawks uniforms last season.

Anyone who watched Saturday and didn’t notice the obvious difference in Marvin Williams from last year to now needs a new set of binoculars, because dude was all over the place.

The Big Greek was interesting, but he’d have to play at that level and much better for me to think about keeping him around. He made open shots that any big should, but save for one attempted block on the other end of the floor, he was invisble on D.

Back to starting both of these young forwards, the Hawks still aren’t good enough inside to play a conventional style. They have to use what they’ve got to take advantage of other teams that won’t be able to match up with Josh Smith and Marvin. They’re young horses that needed to be unleashed, not kept in the stable because they don’t fit the classic, 6-10, 250-pound mold of power forwards.

Glad to see the gang all back, too.

By G-Money

October 9, 2006 11:18 AM | Link to this

It’s interesting to see how many different opinions there were about the play of the Hawks on Saturday. It’s also interesting to see how those who have certain beliefs look for support of those beliefs in order to continue to spill over with regurgitated opinions given where the team is today. Personally, I don’t know that anyone can accurately determine whether these players are going to be standouts or step stools in two hours of scrimmage not even two weeks into camp. The more sensible vector to take would be to wait a bit longer and see how these guys develop over the next few weeks. But I guess that is why they usually don’t get cut for at least a couple of weeks. Who knows what kind of injuries or what parts of the game any of these guys were concentrating on on Saturday. All that said, I’d like to see more and hear more before I evaluate this version of the Hawks as being competitive or not. It’s not about winning the division this year. It’s about being competitive enough to possibly make the play-offs. Can these guys do it? I’ll withold judgement until the first month of the season. Things should be a lot clearer. As stated earlier, my contention is that they will surprise a few of you.

By Astro Joe

October 9, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

Read several reports from internet websites. I’m sure you all have seen them. Al Harrington may get some minutes at center. Battier may get time at PF. Peitrus moves to SF with Troy Murphy seeing time in the pivot. It seems like more and more unconventional lineups are being discussed. Many teams are looking to maximize what they have instead of signing big stiffs to do nothing at the C/PF positions. Makes sense to me. There are very few old-school quality centers in the league but that does not mean that you can’t have a quality team just because you are one of about 20 teams without a classic pivot player. Coaches seem to be giving up on traditional positions and are looking to get their best players on the floor together. And use their depth to address any defensive match-up problems during thr course of the game. We saw this with the USA team as well. Of course, talent still wins, but the general philosophy seems to be consistent with what BK has attempted to do here. Again, the question is one of talent and production more so than it is of positions. I think our talent/production is worth 36-38 wins this season.

By ILL-logical

October 9, 2006 12:50 PM | Link to this

I have to take issue with SS’s comments today regarding the possible pairing of MW and Jsmooth in the Hawk’s starting line up. What I see when I hear this position is either A) a rationalization of management’s draft policy ie, we spent # 2 pick money and he must therefor play or B) a reliance on personal affection as opposed to winning ball games.

I am about winning ball games. I was at the scrimmage and I saw that MW has a ton of talent and he will get better BUT it should not come at the expense of the team’s chances to win or Jsmooth’s development as a potential all-star 3. Now if the team had a defensive horse in the middle, there could be some opportunity to try that combination . But no such animal exsists within the organization and there does not seem to be any inclination to change the situation.

If defense is going to be the road that this Hawks team is going to take, then the pairing of the two young guns in the starting line up indicates a seriously wrong turn.

By Lacsho

October 9, 2006 01:08 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I agree with you, maybe next time we can set something up, so we can speculate and converse face to face, while we watch them play. I would love to get different insights and perspectives.

Please do not misconstrue my comment about Josh Smith. I think he’s a good player; I just would love to see more emotions from him. My family and I walked away from the scrimmage impressed. Some players just stood out more than others. Marvin’s game is just more aggressive now, and I feel he’s more confident in his game. He played with the same aggression I watched him play with during the summer leagues. I’m confident to say the Hawks will be on a lot of team’s radar this year.

Hopefully I’ll be able to make it to the exhibition game Saturday against Miami.

I don’t want to offend anybody, but maybe if you do not like the views from people who go to these types of events, perhaps the only thing you have to do is take time out of your busy schedule and attend. Then you won’t have to rely on so many different views. I’m not saying my view was 100% accurate, but that’s the way I saw the game, and my family and I were sitting on the first levels of the bleachers watching. (Like there was a bad seat in the house)

Peace Hawks Fans

By Kappy

October 9, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

So disappointed I missed the scrimmage on Saturday. Was at the UGA-UT game. I did get a chance to shake dominique wilkins’ hand. Not the time Sekou spent with him, but I was overwhelmed. A true gentleman.

But ive done tens of mock fantasy drafts this season, and the countless opinions of non-hawks fans is that we finally have a reason to be optimisitic this season. Not that it matters, but our opinions of our team sometimes get clouded by our biases. its good to hear from non fans who share the same optimism we do.

It does appear the NBA is moving away from traditional post players and sterotyping players as 3’s\s, 4’s, etc. I agree with Sekou, i think Josh and Marvin can and will coexist together. But we’ll need the depth of shelden and lo to combat bigger teams when needed.

Im fired up for the season to start!

By HB Ando

October 9, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Ill, I don’t want you to misconstrue my opinion (and I’m not saying you did). But the subtlety in what I’m saying is that starting Marvin and Josh together this year MAY yield less wins than other rotations, this year. But it’s in the franchises’ long term best interests to develop both of these players now, when we aren’t going to compete for a championship this year. Put them both on the floor, call them what you want, but challenge the two of them, collectively, to succeed on the defensive end, together. If one of them steps up and shows an ability to defend on the block, great. If neither does, then at some point a decision, or choice, will have to be made. These guys are both potential superstars, so they can’t play their careers together, for the Hawks, if they play the same position.

Learning how to best utilize, and develop, those two guys, is more important, for all the seasons after this one, than winning a couple of more games. If we’re going to continue to call it a rebuild, which it obviously is, then stay the course of developing the guys you picked, as they’ve shown potential to be special.

I guess a person’s opinion on how to best approach this is guided largely by whatever they think the realistic potential of this team is, this year. If you really believe this is a potential playoff team, which will require an increase from 26 wins, to the 40 range, then you probably don’t adhere to the idea that developing Marvin and Josh, together, even if it’s somewhat of a defensive liability, is a smart move. Since I think this will be a low-30 win team, I’m more for developing both of their talents, and beginning to enhance their potential market value, so that we can see if they can stay together, or showcase them, and make a decision in a year or two that they’re both too talented to play one and bench the other, and they really are both 3’s, which will require moving one to address a long-term, championship-caliber, need at either the 5 or the 1. If they’re both committed to seeing the team win, and building this thing together, then they’ll find a way, collectively, to defend the block. If Josh is going to continue to hang out on the wing, cruising around and avoiding contact and dirty work, then he doesn’t sound to concerned with what’s best for the team. Sounds like Marvin isn’t afraid to go to work. If they’re both going to be 3’s in this league, my money is on Marvin being the one who stays here for the long-term. And if Josh Smith improves on his second-half numbers from last year, then his value around the league will be sky high in the coming years, and he’ll likely fetch a comparably talented PG or Center to complete the re-balancing of this roster. I expect both of them to be very productive on the offensive end of the court this year. I just don’t think we’re going to stop anybody from scoring.

By tb

October 9, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

Minutes by position:

PG: Speedy 28/Lue 17/Ivey 2/Salim 1

SG: JJ 36/Salim 8/Chil 4

SF: Marvin 20/Smoove 10/ Chil 22

PF: Smoove 20/Sheldon 22/Marvin 6

C: Zaza 25/Wright 22/Jones 1

Should look something like that. Salim, Ivey and Batista are not going to get many minutes.

Smoove, Marvin, Chil and Sheldon will get theirs.

By ray

October 9, 2006 09:46 PM | Link to this

Interesting conflicting viewpoints on the scrimmage. But I appreciate them all. I wish I could go to stuff like that more readily, but I’m a good 4-5 hours away…well, depending on how close or far you are from the speed limit, heh heh. And work is fairly hectic anyhow.

I was hoping JSmoove would be willing to tackle things in the paint. Early indications are that he isn’t, but Marvin is. I have to agree with Ando that if early indications mean anything, then Marvin is the guy we’ll stick with, assuming that for some reason them playing in the froncourt together doesn’t work well win-wise. Let’s face it, every team is or should be looking to win and get better (win more often), so an assesment is to be expected. But we have a whole season ahead of us to determine that. In the meantime, Woody should try to exploit matchups that present problems for opponents. It seems that a lot of people have either forgotten or ignored this idea. Although I noticed Astro Joe touched on this point adeptly.

It’s not that I dislike Royal Ivey. But if his game is going to remain mostly one-dimensional, how does that help us? Yeah, he’s a committed defender, but we knew that when he was in college. And he continues to give such an effort because he knows that’s how he’s gonna make his bread, what keeps him on the roster. But it takes so much more than that, as somebody has already mentioned…he disappears on the offensive end. It would be different if he developed a mid or long range jumper (please, either one, Royal) or became a good penetrator who could dish the ball off to the right person at the right time…or take it to the hole and score/draw the foul. But he doesn’t do this and he doesn’t get the playing time either. So why not keep Chalmers? He may not be as fast as Speedy, but he won’t slow the game down much (if significantly at all), he can defend (anybody can learn), he’s got the quickness and the confidence. And, he can shoot some, even if he isn’t a natural scorer. But the guy can LEAD. Lue is a good backup but we need more than just that one option. And Lue isn’t going to be a good backup forever. Face it, Royal isn’t an option when you need good quality minutes at the point on BOTH ends of the floor. He’s a defensive stop-gap to keep JJ or somebody else from having to run the offense out of position (which often negates their scoring opportunities).

There will never be an agreement on what defines each position on the court. Okay, the pg spot is unique. The leadership quality, the floor general/coach. Even the best combo guard is no good without those qualities or intangibles. The sg spot, well, most combo guards qualify there. If you don’t have the height, you better have the quickness and explosiveness a la Ben Gordon. But when you get to the two forward and one center spots, things begin to get murky these days. A difference in height by one or two inches means little to me. Now if the wingspan is a lot different, then you have something to look more seriously at. Same with weight. You can find a 7’0” guy weighing in at 260lb and find another guy 6’9” 245 that will whoop-up on the 7-footer all day and night. It’s toughness and strength. And toughness is mostly in the mind. If Marvin realizes and builds on this, he can dominate. Some serious time in the weight room will back it up. Same goes for Josh. It’s possible, but it takes committment.