Hawks

By Astro Joe

August 7, 2006 05:42 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I saw on another blog site that you were recently on a radio station (in LA?) discussing a possble trade of Al to the Lakers. If that is true (hopefully it wasn’t the bogus Sekou) do you care to share with us what you discussed with them?

By G-Money

August 7, 2006 05:45 PM | Link to this

So Sekou, I read this blog all the time and very rarely comment. Some of the pro bloggers like “Ando” and others are pretty intimidating to those who aren’t as regular. Nonetheless, with Wright back in the fold is the team close to 41:41 or are we still around 30 - 33 games this season (not counting any bonuses from the Al sign and trade)? By the way, as a guy who flies all the time, I feel for you, especially if you were flying with fam.

By TonyG

August 7, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

i just want to say this. BILLY WAS RIGHT!!! for years we have watched billy go out and get nothing but cap space. and it is finally paying off. getting speedy and wright are two of the best free agent signings the hawks have ever made. we paid a high price for JJ, but we were at a point where he was a must-have! also, we still have room to re-sign all our guys so they can stay Hawks for a long time to come; because personally, i dont want to see josh or marvin in anything but red and white…and yellow. I can’t believe I’m even saying this, but I am more excited about the Hawks this year than the falcons. i find myself looking for hawks info on the web much more than falcon stuff. I dont even care what happens to al anymore, i just want it to happen. he was great, but lets just get a first round pick and be done with it. it looks like billy is going to get that and as i said before continue to get even more cap space(which i never really realized the importance of in this league).anyways, i just hope spirit stays in charge because knight and woodson BOTH really do know what they’re doing. Woodson has championship experience, and hopefully sometime in the next five years or so the hawks will too. GO HAWKS!! and screw brokeback belkin! that really is a great nickname for him.

By honest_abe

August 7, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

I think BK has done a great job shoring up our weaknesses by signing extremely serviceable players. The amazing thing is he’s done it on the cheap. No crazy contracts for bad players which is a rare thing indeed these days. I’m not the biggest Wright fan, but at least I won’t be throwing things at the TV, like I did last year every time Edward/Bastista got off the bench.

By By Cory H

August 7, 2006 06:12 PM | Link to this

Once again we have another great pick up for atlanta mgmt. And i challenge anyone to tell me another city who has better Mgmt. picks for their pro teams than atlanta, the braves, hawks, falcons, and thrasers all could make the playoffs in 07. That said what a great series of moves we have done and what great timely pickups to futher our strength in the Al sign n trade. I say seek a trade with Indiana for marquis daiels and cash we just need a good back up 2guard and were all set.

By tyger

August 7, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

Billy Knight: NBA GM of the Year, 2007

Neither the national or local media [excluding Sekou] will admit it, BK deserves to be GM of the Year. I’ve beat this drum for two seasons now and no, it hasnt shown up in the win column yet, but for us life-long Hawks fans, we see the difference.

BK inherited a tired, old, capped-out, disenfranchised team with SAR, Ratliff, Big Dog Robinson and JT as its centerpieces. Prior incompetents, Babcock/Kasten, sabatoged this team and fired the winningest coach in NBA history, Lenny Wilkens, after six consecutive playoff appearances and 50 win seasons.

TW, forced their hand and BK was brought in to raise the managerial I.Q. Already widely known as the best talent-man next to Jerry West, BK purged the roster of bloated, underperforming contracts and reversed a 20 yr trend of draft blunders.

Now, in just two years, we are $10M or more under the cap, talent rich with a future brighter than any in the league.

Thanks BK

By newkid

August 7, 2006 07:03 PM | Link to this

There’s a fair bit on this blog about what BK inherited. I’m am indeed a ‘newkid’ and not very familiar with what the team’s salary situation was a few years back, so I checked. The info/data below are from a USA Today website. By the way, this is my first post since very early last week, so please disregard other postings which might have come through under my psuedonym. Thanks. Happy B-day ANDO.

2002-03 / Atlanta Hawks

Player Annual Salary Contract Yrs Contract Amt Contract Thru Position
Abdur-Rahim, Shareef $ 12,375,000 6 $ 70,900,000 2004-05 F
Robinson, Glenn $ 9,860,000 11 $ 80,150,000 2004-05 F
Ratliff, Theo $ 9,375,000 7 $ 57,000,000 2003-04 (p) C-F
Henderson, Alan $ 7,091,000 7 $ 45,000,000 2002-03 (p) F-C
Mohammed, Nazr $ 4,750,000 5 $ 25,000,000 2005-06 C
Crawford, Chris $ 2,750,000 6 $ 15,750,000 2004-05 F
Johnson, DerMarr $ 2,423,000 3 $ 6,800,000 2002-03 (t) G-F
Terry, Jason $ 2,153,934 4 $ 6,900,000 2002-03 (t) G
Glover, Dion $ 1,584,312 4 $ 4,470,000 2002-03 (t) F-G
Davis, Emanual $ 824,935 2 $ 1,500,000 2002-03 G
Dickau, Dan $ 776,880 4 $ 4,120,000 2004-05 (t) G
Ham, Darvin $ 699,935 1 $ 699,935 2002-03 F-G
Williams, Brandon $ 587,435 1 $ 587,435 2002-03 F
Newble, Ira $ 587,435 1 $ 587,435 2002-03 G
Jackson, Jermaine $ 587,435 1 $ 587,435

By Cisco Kid from the ATL

August 7, 2006 07:12 PM | Link to this

I knew Billy Knight was a genius when he completed the trade for Rasheed Wallace and dealt him to Detroit. We didn’t think he was so smart then, but it seems he knew something we didn’t… Lorenzen Wright seems to be a good move for a cheap price.

We still need to get something for Al Harrington. I heard the Lakers were willing to part with Andrew Bynum, Smush Parker and a first round pick. I don’t think a salary exemption would be sufficient. We need players and maybe this log-jam of talent can produce a possibility of trading Al and some of the others for another bonafide NBA star. Just a thought…

I only question the Donta Smith non-signing. He seemed to be a very athletic kid with tremendous upside. I wonder if he was signed by San Antonio. We probably would have been able to sign him real cheap. I would rather have him on the roster than Esteban Batista. He already knows the system Woodson runs.

I don’t think Billy Knight is finished wheeling and dealing. I think he may have all these pieces lined up (current roster players, the recent draft picks and free agent signees) so he can make a major trade for a veteran big. Who knows, maybe Chris Wilcox could be still available.

Anyway, I always thought that Mike Woodson was a great coach irrespective of his win-loss record. He always called time outs exactly on queue to what the situation called for and he yelled at who he needed to when it was called for. He is definitely ‘old school’. Also, just look at the fact that the Hawks seemed to be in almost every game even when they lost. They beat San Antonio and Detroit last year despite the fact that they did not have a legitimate center or point guard.

Big ups to the Hawks front office on their progress and get rid of that penny pinchin’ Steve Belkin.

Peace out Hawks fans!

By mountain_jim

August 7, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

Well I think the Bynum rumour is pretty unlikely and unbelievable…

The Indiana forum guys think that are going to be able to get Al and still keep their 2007 1st pick, and only give a 2008 or even less.

If that was what BK was not agreeing to then I hope Al getting Arn has not forced him downwards to meet Indy at that pityful level.

But if that’s what happens it shows you just how this ownership mess has hurt the team - I think BK could have done better than that under less onersous ownership restrictions on taking salary back.

staying tuned….

By HB Ando

August 7, 2006 08:04 PM | Link to this

Let me be as gentle about this as possible: There has never been a GM of the Year, who team didn’t break .500 or make the playoffs. Is the team improving? Yes, but with utter failure has come top-six draft picks in 3 consecutive years. Why don’t we see how we stack up against the rest of the NBA before employees of the Atlanta Hawks fill our blog up with nonsense. When an NBA franchise wins only 13 games in a season, there truly isn’t anywhere to go but up. So we’re off the bottom of the trash heap (barely, as only 3 teams had worst records than us last year, after our historic implosion the prior). I’m glad to see some effort in rebuilding, but there are differing levels of improvement, let’s say unacceptable, acceptable, and optimal. Billy’s drafting of Shelden Williams, which followed a number of other largely confusing decisions, leaves his current performance in between the first two, and no where near the third, in my opinion (that’s why we call them opinions, folks). If this team sniffs .500, I’ll alter my assessment to acceptable, moving towards better than average. But these platitudes, suggesting Billy Knight is a top-tier GM, are just ridiculous (and continue to inspire visions of Hawks’ marketing staff keying away at their cubbies, trying to spin positive for the uneducated masses).

SS, there was nothing ridiculous about nabbing Wright after drafting Williams. Based on revised, and rapidly declining, expectations regarding his readiness to contribute, it was an absolute necessity. And Wright’s signing only reinforces how ill-conceived it was for Billy to draft an under-sized post player, at a slot no one else in the game thought was appropriate for Williams. Of all the possible scenarios that could have realistically been considered for leveraging the #5 pick, taking Williams there was definitively the worst possible decision. GM of the Year?! Give me a freakin’ break and put down the pipe!

By michael m.

August 7, 2006 08:07 PM | Link to this

By michael m. August 7, 2006 07:11 PM | Link to this ken,

when exactly did you go from liking our core and supporting bk (perhaps more than he deserved, though it worked in context owing to the many bk bashers) to the NEW KEN who sees us as the clippers of the south…?

we are not trading marvin williams, okay? and unless josh smith and marvin show an inability to play together, they will form our core along with jj for many years to come. i know it can get boring around here when there is not much new to discuss, but it’s as if you awoke from your sleep one night with an epiphany, wrongheaded as it may be. if anything, we are starting to see where our team might be headed. we have options depending on which players produce well together. and part of building a continual winner is allowing your players to play together over - dare i say it? - a number of seasons, and letting them grow together. it seems a number of bloggies around here should take a class in chemistry and drop the math class because chemistry is what we need, not a continued adding and subtracting of players. this is real basketball, not fantasy. when ando told you that one night to just go to bed, ken, it was exactly the right thing to say. and i do not mean to call you out personally, i am also talking symbolically to a lot of the posters who prefer to dwell on the negative. there is a difference when examining our team and its construction between objective, productive analysis and using a microscope to nitpick at any possible flaw in the process. who among us are so perfect that you have never done anything that was less than absolutely, 100% flawless? i know i hold myself to a high standard, but i am not definitely not perfect. too many people around here have a negative attitude, it’s like you want to fail. i think the versatility of our team at present is as fluid as it has been since the days of productive role players like john battle and spud webb supporting the likes of mookie and nique. is it possible for us to look into and examine the roles that the players on our squad might take on instead of just talking about who needs to be traded. come on, think outside the box. that’s what i thought the point of this thing was. perhaps i was wrong and the lowest common denominator always wins. hope im wrong about that, by the way.

By michael m.

August 7, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

By michael m. August 7, 2006 07:37 PM | Link to this part of our problem last year was not playing as a team and hustling, going all out, from the opening tip. i feel the hawks now being legitimately ten deep means everyone on our team is going to have to earn their minutes and play like a madman if they want to stay on the floor. if they’re not bringing it, we bring in someone else. in this way, we won’t suffer the same fate where we are playing catch up. our versatility is also going to allow us to match up well with pretty much everyone. obviously shaq is in a universe all his own, but against the orlandos that have two bigs, we can bring in zaza and wright together for spells. i really feel the wright signing does a lot more for us than just what wright is worth alone. he really does balance us out to a significant degree. don’t worry so much if shelden doesn’t start or play 25 minutes, it’s ok. it’s not just about him. this is a team game, the goal is not to make the all-rookie team. when we go small, he can play center. i know some of you don’t see it, but you’re not paying attention to the direction the league is headed. there are lineups where it will work. what is great now is that we aren’t forced into playing him 20 minutes a night at the 5. and stop saying he is 6’7. they play in shoes in this league and everyone gets listed at that height. so he is 6’9.

until a few nights ago, i thought the max we could win this year was 35. now i feel like if we play up to the level of our talent, we can play .500 ball. we have a few veterans to help set the tempo for our youngsters.

one of the keys is going to be playing good team defense. that means hustle, effort. playing with a sense of urgency. like i said earlier, one of our biggest problems last year was not playing together as a team on the floor. if we do that, then we will be happier fans and our team will show us what they are capable of, with the W column swelling to numbers we haven’t seen in a while. that job falls to woodsen. if he cannot get these guys to buy in and get us over the 30 win hump, then he will have to go.

in terms of team strategy this year, i still hope jj plays some at the 1 because i think it allows childress and salim to see the floor more. to me, lue might not get much time some nights. he is important though because speedy gets hurt often. but depending on who is leading our team best that night, that’s who should get the bulk of the minutes. we start with speedy, jj, marvin, smith and zaza…. and then we go from there. training camp will be about establishing who is first off the bench. but the second half of games should be about who has “the stuff” that night. we will find out which of our guys play well together…. who helps establish the defensive tempo and energy… what guys can get us instant points off the bench, etc.

anyway, this is the kind of blog discussion i am hoping we can move towards. hope you guys agree.

By HB Ando

August 7, 2006 08:08 PM | Link to this

BTW, I truly appreciate all the birthday messages. Though the essence of the blog is to challenge each others’ opinions, it really is a pretty cool community of folks tied together by their love of all things hoops. Much respect…….

By michael m.

August 7, 2006 08:09 PM | Link to this

i had posted the above two posts on the last blog, not realizing we were onto a new one. so am reposting here since i think it still applies. thanks.

By TD

August 7, 2006 08:19 PM | Link to this

Sekou, nice post. Also, glad to hear the family reunion/theme park combo thing turned out to be better than expected. Sorry to hear about the return flight, but I guess we have all been there.

By jbrownjib

August 7, 2006 08:22 PM | Link to this

Picking up Wright puts the Hawks in an interesting position because now they may not need to trade Harrington. Why not post Harrington and Williams in the power forward posion with Josh and Marvin in the small foward postion. This would be a very young, talented and versatile team. I’d like to know Sekou’s thoughts on this.

By Kappy

August 7, 2006 09:01 PM | Link to this

Hate to be rude, but AL is gone dude. But now, with the wright signing, its easier to swallow only getting a draft pick(if that is all we’re getting) as opposed to adding to our frontcourt depth.

Ive been quite neutral on BK and Woody, but i think BK has put us in a position without killing our salary cap. Props to him for: Zaza(a steal), drafting Chil,Smoove and Marvin, and now wright.

im not convinced of his moves for claxton or shelden. only time will tell. But you have to give the guy some love from bringing us out of salary cap hell. The post by newkid about our salary situation is an eye-opener.

Its now Woody’s responsibility to make this talent gel to some semblence of respectability.

By Scott

August 7, 2006 09:10 PM | Link to this

Who are you people trumpeting Billy Knight as good, much less a GENIUS!! Please tell me what drugs you are on because I’d love to experience a “High” like that. Lorenzen Wright is a serviceable backup, and that’s it. We still have no low post offense, a wretched slew of absurd draft picks by this bozo, and every other terrible move this clown has made as far as lettting go of Pryzbilla, Mohammed for NOTHING, and getting rid of JT. He stinks, he has an unbalanced roster with no size still, no defense, and no playoff hopes. He’s brutal, and it’s a shame we Hawk fans must continue to put up with him.

By tyger

August 7, 2006 09:19 PM | Link to this

Surely, the onus now is on Coach Woody to produce. Last season the writing was on the wall, we shouldve seen it coming like Hurricane Katrina.

Brokeback Belkin balking, J.Collier’s passing and the ensuing 2-16 start wouldve sunk any ship, yet Coach Woody kept his afloat while others abandoned ship. (see Larry Brown and NYK)

This year, despite more Brokeback bellowing, BK continued to build on his solid foundation. Soon, the house will be complete and ready for guests.

Its up to Woody now, the keys are in his hands, barring any unforeseen tragedies, he will be given his first fighting chance to show what he can do in the NBA. Good luck!

Sekou’s on point - this team is game ready and we havent gotten one thing in return for Harrington. BK is a genius!

We could just let Big Al walk, he’s basically in the same boat as Bonzi. Great talent, no market. And we would still be way ahead of the game.

Bottom line is ATL is willing to do sign/trade for 6yr/$60M. What else can a guy ask for? We did right by Antoine, Rasheed, SAR, Theo, Big Dog and JT. They all went to good teams for more money. Why wouldnt we do the same for Big Al???

Its not ATL holding up the deal. If we wanted to add $10M in salaries we would just keep Big Al, he’s the best player on the market, but we simply cant afford him, we gave JJ big money, we’re in a ownership mess and we’re losing money. We had no choice but to build through the draft. Luckily, we know how to draft.

By CJ

August 7, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

Hold judgement until the season starts..this team should win about 35 give or take games this year. It’s been addition by subtraction…so far BK looks like he will salvage something from the trade. In comparison to the rest of the leauge the Hawks still have a way to go. GM of the year…well,maybe that was the enthusiasm talking.

By RA

August 7, 2006 10:03 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Thank you for once again being the ONLY blogger that gives Atlanta a fair shake. Terence Moore might have something remotely positive to say about the aquisition of Wright but when Bradley’s blog finally comes out (it’ll take him a week or two to figure out how to put a bad spin on this thing, and if he can’t do that, he’ll go back to the 2005 draft, again!) Anyway, thanks for calling this signing what it is, a really good thing.

By Ken Strickland

August 7, 2006 10:12 PM | Link to this

MACHAEL M, I also postED my response on the other blog not knowing this one had started. To see my response you have to go the the other blog. I don’t want to take up space reposting, nor do I want to disrupt the flow of positive energy. However, I agree with ANDO, somewhat, about the over emblishment of BK. He’s not as great as some of you are saying, but he certainly isn’t as bad as some others seem to feel.

By RA

August 7, 2006 10:24 PM | Link to this

Well said Mr. Strickland, most well said…

By michael m.

August 7, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this

ken, read your other post. i am not sure what you are getting at since your opinions seem to vary depending on the month… or week… or day. my posts were ABOUT trying to keep things moving in a positive direction. how can you be worried already about whether we are going to match RFA offers for shelden williams?! he hasnt even played a game yet and you are thinking about that? it’s four years down the road buddy, just relax. of course not everyone on our team will be here forever, but saying that either josh smith or marvin williams will have to go is… premature, to say the least.

my real confusion stems from your being overly positive and then suddenly seeming more negative. you went from overpraising bk to now saying others are praising him too much. which is it? it’s as if there are two kens. for our purposes, we will call them dr. ken and mr. strickland. i like you ken, i like your spirit. you endeared yourself to me when you discussed openly your personal setbacks and how you fought through it. so i do not want you to think i am attacking you, i am not. you’ve just thrown me for a loop or two, that’s all.

in terms of the guy saying bk is gm of the year, i think he was probably kidding. i wouldnt take it too seriously. remember guys, shades of grey.

By Einstien the Houndog

August 7, 2006 11:22 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if anybody’s a genius, present company excluded of course, but I’m sure as hell not going to complain about not having to go on and on about Chris Paul.

It’s not fair to write that we’ve missed on BK’s last three drafts. It takes more than savvy to build a good team. Luck is involved too, witness Jerry West and Elgin Baylor. I just believe that we’re starting to see something promising here. Give ‘em time

By cowa

August 7, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this

I’m really having a difficult time understanding how signing Wright makes BK a star GM. Yes, Wright brings some positives and is willing to back up Zaza. But is Zaza someone you really want someone to volunteer to be the backup for? I would want someone who could challenge him for the starting spot, and if Zaza lost the starting spot, he could then challenge Sheldon for first big off the bench. We need some competition in trainng camp to keep everyone aggressive when your previous record was 26-56.

I still think Cato would have been a better fit, but he may be asking for too much money. I like the fact Wright was willing to sign cheap, but was not the shotblocking, defensive enforcer I was hoping for.

Now, about BK’s “incredible” drafting. IMO, the draft is not for immediate need, as the likelihood of any draftee having an immediate impact is minimal. You draft for potential, which is why I disliked the Childress pick (wanted Iguadala), I liked the JSmoove pick, I loved the Marvin pick, and I HATED the Sheldon pick (though I like Sheldon and think he will be serviceable). The potential future stars of this draft (again, IMO) were Bargnani, Aldridge, Roy, Foye, Gay and O’Bryant. Any of them would have been acceptable at 5. None of them needed to start day 1. You build your roster through free agency, you build your potential through the draft. BK hasn’t done this with either the Childress or Sheldon picks. Those are his biggest sins, not the old trades that he made to clear cap space.

Furthermore, don’t give Billy a pass on moving Al on for relatively nothing. He is the best free agent on the block, and really the best free agent that was available to anyone outside of Chicago or Detroit. I understand the need to purge salary due to ownership, but we need something more than a restricted 1st round pick, cash and dumping of Edwards. Let’s hope there’s something more to come (but I’m not realistically counting on it).

Again, I’m not a Billy basher, but I just disagree with how he has assembled this roster for both winning in the present or winning in the future.

Happy B-day Ando, you deserve it.

By michael m.

August 7, 2006 11:55 PM | Link to this

i don’t think wright is sitting there happy to be a backup or volunteering anything in that regard. he went into free agency wanting a chance to start at center for a team. he probably believes he will have that opportunity here. hopefully he comes in and competes hard. if he outshines zaza in preseason, he probably will start. wright and zaza’s talent levels are about even; they each have their strengths and weaknesses. cowa, i think the point is that we needed another big to share the load with zaza and perhaps team with him against certain lineups. it just balances our roster in a way that adding sheldon alone inside could not have. in the end, bk made a good move. he’s done it before, hopefully he will again. obviously that doesn’t make him a star gm. it’s called hyperbole. and as many times as bk has frustrated me, it is funny how quick people are to hate on him. when he does something positive, he doesn’t receive the props he deserves. realize how many teams are in cap hell with an inability to better themselves, and then look at our situation. it could be a lot worse. getting a lebron or dwight howard or tim duncan is luck. that’s why it’s called the lottery.

By Ken Strickland

August 8, 2006 12:11 AM | Link to this

RA, thanks for the recognition. MICHAEL M, I know you aren’t attacking me, believe me, I know the difference. Having that stroke forced me to embrace the future. I had to see myself getting better, before learning to walk, dress myself and talk again. To strengthen my jaw muscles I bought tons of bubble gum, and then chewed and blew bubbles until some friends and family members wanted to knock the s**t out of me. Looking into the future helps me stay positive because I know where I coulda, shoulda, woulda ended up if I hadn’t. I see it like this: 2 people are walking down the street. One occasionally glances from side to side and notices the negative turmoil that’s transpiring, but continues to move forward toward his destination undetered. The other one also notices the negative turmoil and slows down to get a better look, and eventually stops. He then turns around to see if there is any other negative turmoil he’s missed. Once he stops and turns his head, he loses sight of everything that was ahead of him and is no longer headed toward his destination. After dwelling on the negative turmoil he eventually becomes a part of that scene. I have choosen to look forward and reach my destination. That’s my approach towards the Hawks, Braves, Falcons and life. I hope this solves some of the confusion I seem to have created.

By reese

August 8, 2006 12:21 AM | Link to this

Below are 5 key indicators that your basketball team may not be that good.

1) You have a losing season and Your beat writer does a story about the 5 most improved teams and your not one of them

2) Fans get excited about the signing of a career backup players like Lorezen Wright and Speedy Claxton

3) Your fans look forward to the 07 draft and the 06 season hasn’t started.

4) Your fans look forward to signing the 07 key free agents and the 06 season hasn’t started.

5) You have a losing record and you lose 1 of your 2 top scorers and get nothing in return but a draft pick.

Well, the hawks have hit 4 out of 5. Lets hope that BK can avoid the 5th.

Yeah right!!!!!!!!!

By michael m.

August 8, 2006 12:56 AM | Link to this

good luck with your bobcats this year, reese. maybe they can figure out a way to acquire your boy stevie francis for you.

i will miss all your productive commentary on the hawks. when were you gonna get started with that anyway?

6) good riddance.

By Clyde

August 8, 2006 01:49 AM | Link to this

Reese you win a FIRE BILLY AND WOODY t-shirt for that great post. Congrats.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By ray

August 8, 2006 02:16 AM | Link to this

Happy belated B-day, Ando.

The addition of Lorenzen Wright helps. Hopefully he’ll play better D than I’ve seen out of him the last few years. Under Woodson, I would expect that he will.

Hey Reese, enjoy Bobcatville. They weren’t any better than us last year and have less overall talent. I don’t dislike them, but I’m a Hawks fan. If you’re leaving this blog, so be it. You weren’t anything but negative anyway. And I thought Mark Bradley wrote some bad stuff…

By mykhalc

August 8, 2006 02:36 AM | Link to this

reasons you may not wanna be a hawks fan…

1) you KNOW you are a better GM than the present one and have PROOF to show it

2) no matter what moves are made, there is NO way you can feel good about it

3) you KNOW the current group of players could not have made enough improvements in their game over the summer to make any significant difference on the court in the coming season

4) you KNOW AL’s points can’t be replaced in the lineup

5) livin’ in the NOW is just TOOOO PAINFUL!!!

6) your best post is FIRE BILLY AND WOODY!! (clyde i had to, my brotha) LOL

By Michael R

August 8, 2006 07:11 AM | Link to this

and the 7th reason…..

Marvin Williams is one twinkie away from blowing up to 300 lbs. The man moves like a fat man, only he doesn thave the fat.

www.hawkssuck.com

By doc

August 8, 2006 08:04 AM | Link to this

reese, if you are truly leaving, must have missed that declaration, good luck to you. enjoyed the counterpoint with you.

By J

August 8, 2006 08:26 AM | Link to this

Sekou,

Thank you for your intelligent articles … I’ve grown weary of reading articles that were not fact-based and just had some lame opinions thrown in the mix. Thanks for keeping us posted on the team, and keeping all the negativity away. It’s reporters such as yourself that really make a career for themselves by actually speaking with the players on the team, and giving the fans unbiased feedback.

Also, I’m going to very glad when the team takes off next season and leaves most of the people choking on their own words. Sometimes I feel like this city doesn’t even deserve any type of pro-sports team b/c the fan support flat out sucks! Most of you would be unemployed if the ATL didn’t have a sports team b/c sports brings a huge economic impact to the city. Once again, feel fortunate you have so many different options!

J

By bob

August 8, 2006 08:49 AM | Link to this

What the f******* hell is wrong with you? You are gay!

By Dan Roundfield

August 8, 2006 08:51 AM | Link to this

HEY - if you’re gonna put up a website to frustrate and upset yourself, at least put some Adsense on it. It’ll offset the costs of your stress related health issues. You know, your ED and whatnot.

Go Hawks!!! I enjoy ‘em, even if you don’t.

By Aaron B

August 8, 2006 09:56 AM | Link to this

Hey guys, It’s been a long time, but I wanted to let a few of you in on my progress in school. For you who don’t remember me, I used to be one of the primary bloggers on this site. I remember Ando and all and was a loyal blogger, and still am a loyal Hawks fan. I have been very busy with Video Game school at Full Sail, and have progressed very nicely. Sekou you’re still doing good, and I still read your bloggs, but rarely have to time to leave my mark. The Hawks in my opinion are on the right track this season. I don’t think the league is prepared to see a winning team from Atl. But they are going to see one this year, is my prediction. :) See ya guys! Back to my school. Aaron

By HB Ando

August 8, 2006 09:57 AM | Link to this

Hey, Aaron, great to hear from you. Keep in touch and continued good luck in school.

By ILL-logical

August 8, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

Hawks needs to be addressed in desending order:

1.A box office draw who can play 2. A big,ie> 6’11” ,250lbs,who can START and play 3. A 4 who can score and defend equally well.

Still have seen no evidence of any of the above.

By Astro Joe

August 8, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

Reese, very FUNNY post back there.

By Derrick

August 8, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

You know that we’ve hit a low point when commentors are using the signing of Loronzo Wright as proof of progress. Face it people, this team will be in the lottery this year and I’m betting next year as well. And it plays in a horrible conference where a .500 team is like the 5th seed. The Hawks are a disaster and the sooner that you stop grasping at straws and DEMAND

By RA

August 8, 2006 12:05 PM | Link to this

Hey Reece, RA here, at the risk of drawing more attention to your…supposition than it ever deserved, I’m going to address your recipie for disaster one by one, but first I’ll list them all for the benefit of those who may have forgotten them or may have wisely skipped them altogether.

1) You have a losing season and Your beat writer does a story about the 5 most improved teams and your not one of them

2) Fans get excited about the signing of a career backup players like Lorezen Wright and Speedy Claxton

3) Your fans look forward to the 07 draft and the 06 season hasn’t started.

4) Your fans look forward to signing the 07 key free agents and the 06 season hasn’t started.

5) You have a losing record and you lose 1 of your 2 top scorers and get nothing in return but a draft pick.

1a. Just because you’re not one of the five most improved teams (in the opinion of said beat writer) that doesn’t mean that you’re not in the top ten. There were thirty some odd teams last time I checked…

2a. I wouldn’t say that fans are excited about the new aquisitions, I’d call it guarded optimism that the front office put plugs into the biggest holes in last year’s team. My opinion, if you need a point guard and a backup center and you go out and get a quality point guard and back up center, then you’ve done a good thing. (Or would you rather two more 6’8 forwards???)

3a. I’m a Hawk fan, the ‘07 draft hasn’t even entered my mind yet. If I live to see 2007, I’ll count myself grateful. Everything else is negotiable.

4a. Once again, which fans are you talking about. Not me.

5a. Agreed, Al is a great player, but he is playing at the top of his game right now. Marvin Williams and Josh Smith have barely taped the potential of what they can do and both of those guys are ready to start. Oh,and last time I checked, Atlanta didn’t have a first round pick for 2007. So I think getting a pick and some cash for Harrington sounds pretty good right about now.

I hope that you will regard my rebuttle to your list as a common sense/optimistic appraisal of the way the decisions of this summer should be looked at. If not, oh well, it’s no skin off my nose either way.

By honest_abe

August 8, 2006 12:15 PM | Link to this

did we just go sign a big name free agent like ben wallace? no! however, like sekou said we just signed a serviceable big man on the CHEAP! chris wilcox a player with similar career stats as lorenzen is asking for 8 mil/yr!!!! we just signed a big that should be able to contribute around 7 pts, 6 rbds, and close to a block a game for 3 mil!!!!!! is lorenzen going to lead us to a larry o brien trophy? probably not. but this atlanta hawks team is gotten considerably better. good enough for the 8th spot? possibly! are we in a great position for the 2007 season? HELL YES! i said if bk doesn’t have us in the playoffs by 07 then he needs to go…….the hawks are only one of a few teams that have enough money to make a splash in next years awesome free agent pool. if you aren’t excited, then you need to go find a new team to cheer for…SERIOUSLY

By RA

August 8, 2006 12:23 PM | Link to this

Yea Derrick,

Looks like you were cut off in mid-sentence there. I hate that, but it’s just as well seeing as though your comments weren’t really based on anything but the conjecture that Lorenzen Wright isn’t a quality player. I’m sorry folks, but no, Speedy Claxton isn’t Magic Johnson, and no Lorenzen Wright is not Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and no Sheldon Williams is not the second comming of Denis Rodman (thank God), but they are quality players that fill the biggest needs that we had last season. I know that many of you have suffered so much over the past few seasons that anything that the Hawks do right is wrong and what they do wrong is unforgivable. Friends, it’s called the Bradley-Moore syndrome, and there is help. Most physicians prescribe the reading of Sekou Smith’s blog once a day, sounds like Derrick needs a bi-daily dose. Anyway, hopefully in the end you’ll be able to take an objective look at this team and see that even without Al, they run ten quality players deep and in this conference (you were right about the Eastern Conference), that’s about the best you can hope for. So Derrick, try to get better, and in the future,don’t worry about finishing your sentences. Truth is you’d be better off not to start them.

By reese

August 8, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Thanks Clyde and Astro Joe.

Doc, don’t worry, I’m not going anywhere. Been here too long to quit on the hawks now.

It will take more than the weak comebacks by Michael M. and Ray to make me leave. Its amazing how they use the Bobcats as their example. You know, a team that we lost to 3 times without Okafor and May.

Also, Clyde, I’m not really on the fire woody and bk theme. I’ve been at my company for over 16 years and have been in managment for several years. If I fired individuals for making mistakes, I’d be in constant interview mode and there is not guarantee that the next person is going to do better.

However, I do believe in learning from your mistakes, documenting successes/failures and having open lines of communication.

This forum allows us to have an open line of communication to BK, Woody and Owners. It allows us to document perceive successes and failures of draft picks, free agent acquisitions, coaching decisions, ownership issues and players.

Yes, BK is going to make mistakes that some bloggers here feel are excellent decisions. I’m just going to make sure that I’m here to let the truth be known and that is we have been waiting a long time for a playoff caliber team and we still have a long ways to go.

I just hope it happens before my retirement.

By ILL-logical

August 8, 2006 12:47 PM | Link to this

The bigotry of low expectations. This seems to be the prevailing view here regarding the Hawks.I would argue in the opposite :the hawks can and should do much better. Allen Iverson is a winner, a box office draw and a all star point guard. A first;Speedy and Marvin is not a bad price( For all of you so caled experts attached to Marvin’s jock-get over it ,he ain’t all that NOW)

Al Harrington to the Lackers for Kwame Brown/Andrew Bynum and a first is butter. Young;athletic and inexpensive bigs(>6’11.250 lbs). Plus either would allow ZaZa to play his natural positon ,the 4.

All this can be ours and the price is right.

By only 1 with a clue

August 8, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

Billy Knight is the biggest moron ever. If you would even mention him with executive of the year makes you an even bigger moron.

Hey, you’ll be hard pressed to find a bigger hawks fan than me, but you just can’t ignore how bad BK is. Just listen to him or read his comments, and you’ll realize this guy is a total idiot. Yes, he has made some good moves, but overall, he just can’t grasp the concept of the different positions it takes to win. If you can’t see that, or simply don’t want to believe it, then your opinion really doesn’t matter anyway.

By Kappy

August 8, 2006 01:25 PM | Link to this

Hey illogical, you want a box office draw?, try watching our boy Joe Johnson dominate for the USA right now. He’s getting big minutes and really is showing his strengths and abilities. Try watching one of their games and you’ll see what we have.

Somebody give JJ some love!!!!!

By cowa

August 8, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

I-L, I think you’re dreaming if you think you can get both Bynum and Brown, much less a 1st round pick thrown in for Al. We couldn’t get Harrison from Indy, why would we get Bynum AND a 1st round pick, much less Brown? And what would that leave the Lakers with at C? Chris Mihm and what? And don’t think we can just throw in Edwards to make the deal look good. Ain’t happening.

Now, enough Billy bashing or glorifying. It’s old and makes the blog stale. Don’t get upset at Reese’s blog, I thought it was great. No need to defend the Hawks vs that kind of blog, it’s all just meant as perspective. Take it for what it is.

By HB Ando

August 8, 2006 01:38 PM | Link to this

Gotta jump on something Joe said about Wright’s acquisition not impacting Shelden, because Wright is a center. And that’s that we’ve discussed, from time to time, that Zaza may in fact be better suited for the four than the five. If that’s accurate, it’s Zaza, and not the newly acquired Wright, who stands in the way of Shelden receiving any minutes. And it looks like an accurate statement that the guy we just drafted based on his ability to come in and contribute significant minutes in the post, right away, has now become the fifth option in a 3-position rotation. I’ll continue to stick to my prediction that minutes for Shelden will be hard to come by, and that he was an awful choice by Billy at the fifth slot. I’ll continue to wonder aloud, why, if you’re committed to major front line minutes for Josh and Marvin, which have to come at the 3/4, no matter how you slice it, and if you believed that you could obtain a reasonably-priced, role-playing big, again, why, would you draft an undersized big, who cannot play the five, and does not have any realistic ability to move past either of the young forwards, for major minutes, at the four? This isn’t so much me beating a dead horse, as continuing to look for a satisfactory explanation for the wasted pick on Shelden Williams, and to wonder why so many of you are not outraged at the stupidity of Billy’s decision.

I’m thinking that if everything else looks solid, and you expect to play Marvin and Josh together, then why not go after a big man with the potential to play the five behind those two. And the answers keep coming back circularly, “Because we needed someone who could come in and help right away, and we don’t have the time to develop one of the young, athletic bigs, like O’Bryant, Simmons or Armstrong”. But Shelden can’t contribute right away, and that was his only perceived value over the other names. And no one else who follows the NBA thought Shelden was worthy of going at five. So how is that not considered an unacceptable error by Billy? And now to justify taking Shelden, some folks are talking about trading either Marvin or Josh in the near future? Hmm, let’s trade a kid with all-star potential, because we drafted a guy who can only play the four, who isn’t good enough to earn minutes in front of either potential star forward. And this idea makes sense to some of you!? And some of you would view this as Billy being a great GM?

The bottom line is that if Shelden Williams can’t come in and earn major minutes, this season, then it was a truly wasted pick. It makes no sense to project him as our PF of the future, when he’ll never be half the basketball player of Marvin or Josh. And it’s ludicrous to say, “well we need good back ups to be a quality team”, when nobody with half a brain drafts in the top five in hopes of securing a back up. With Marvin, Josh, Zaza, and the expected addition of a Wright-like player (and make no mistake, there are always available, Wright-like players out there, Billy’s historical reticence to keep, or acquire them, not withstanding as evidence to the contrary), then why not draft a projected star guard (Foye, Roy, hell, even Gay), or an athletic big? I’ve said for six months that for Atlanta to plan for a future of Marvin and Josh playing together, they would have to acquire or draft a Ben Wallace-type center, who could anchor the middle. We now have 3 guys on the roster who do not project to provide that role, in Zaza, Wright and Shelden. So while our front line is improved for this season, the need was unaddressed, for no logical reason.

I just can’t wrap my head around this as being an OK sequence of events. And the idea that the solution to this botched draft is to clear out one of the two clearly, most talented players on the roster, is just mind-boggling to me. The only way a future trade of one of those two guys would be warranted, is if it was for the rights to a player that fits the very role I’m describing. And even then, it’s only necessitated by failing to address player for that potential role in this last draft, that forces you to give up a young stud, to fix what you previously screwed up.

Nope, I’ve tried and tried and tried, to make sense of this draft choice. With four legitimate NBA forwards/centers in front of him, Shelden doesn’t contribute much to this team. And without that “ready to step in and play” tag validated, his choice was a disastrous miscalculation on the part of Billy Knight. He picks O’Bryant, Simmons, Armstrong, hell, even Sene, and I see the plan, and I’m not typing these words. I see his vision of Josh and Marvin, and Zaza and Wright playing the stop-gap for the next year or two while one of these guys learns and develops, so we can improve this year, but still have a roster that projects to something special. But he throws that pick away, and we’re now looking at waiting at least a year, if not two, to bring in a franchise big man who projects to fit with Josh and Marvin. We now look good enough to miss a top-3 draft pick. But not good enough to make the playoffs. And with no potential franchise big to make it OK that Phoenix is going to get a lottery pick from us next summer.

Folks continue to confuse the conclusions of my analysis for negativity. But there’s just nothing emotional in this assessment. Folks keep pointing to the likelihood that we’ll be better as proof that we’re in good hands. Well, improvements come in good, better and best, and my expectations of what is, and has been, possible, have just not been met. Not even close.

By RA

August 8, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

All I’m saying is that this Hawks team has what no Hawks team has had in the better part of a decade, a fighting chance.

By RA

August 8, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

Mr. Ando,

I’m going to put this as bluntly as I can: EVERY GREAT TEAM NEEDS DEPTH!!! I don’t care if you’re talking about the great Laker Teams of the Eighties, the great Bulls teams of the Nineties or the current San Antonio Spurs, you need guys sitting on that bench that can flat out do the job when the starters go out because they have got to go out sometimes. How can you not understand that if you are only one quality player deep at a position, you are one knee injury away from being down a player. Atlanta is two quality players deep at all five starting positions. (And what if Za Za is really a Power Forward, David Robinson was really a four and as I recall, he did pretty good at center.) A lot of teams would kill to have that kind of depth. So please stop acting like depth doesn’t matter because the truth is that there are very few things as or more important. Ask the 2005 Falcons…

By mykhalc

August 8, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

ando, help me out…if for whatever reason, SHELDON is the man you feel is right for the team but you know he could be taken lower. so you throw that out there (swapping places) to the other teams and you get absolutely no offer back that you feel is worth the swap. what’s your next move??? and as i said earlier, ARMSTRONG would have been my BIG. so for me it’s not about thinking BK was right or wrong. i’m just throwing the scenario out there for ya!!

By Astro Joe

August 8, 2006 02:18 PM | Link to this

Ando, I don’t see it as being a problem. Hawks had virtually nothing down low last season and BK has made it a point to acquire “linebackers and defensive linemen” this off-season. JJ clearly stated that he wanted a PG added to this roster. So if BK had drafted Foye/Roy and added Speedy, then we would have a comparable logjam at the guard spot between Salim, Lue, Speedy, JJ and Foye/Roy. I’d rather have a surplus at the defensive positions than at the offensive ones.

Its up to Woody to figure out how to use his weapons. My guess is that we will not see either Smith nor Marvin play 36 minutes at the PF position. My guess is that either Childress or Salim will see there minutes impacted (probably based on the game situation but with Woody being defensive-minded, I’m betting Salim sees a lot of bench time). But mostly, I see this as a 1 year problem as the Hawks will likely deal either Smith or Marvin for a substantial upgrade at either the C, PF or PG position before the start of the ‘07-‘08 season. So given that we will not have a draft pick next year, having enough parts to allow for multiple players to be dealt later does not pose a problem from my vantage point. Bottom line, seems like we are building assets for a bigger move in the near future. Personally, that works for me all day long.

By honest_abe

August 8, 2006 02:36 PM | Link to this

hmmmm…i just don’t understand how some people have ALREADY come to the conclusion that sheldon is not ready to contribute this year……. based on what? the fact that he played a couple of summer league games? give me a break! we have absolutely no idea what sheldon is going to do this year, so can we PLEASE stop making premature evaluations of how the minutes are going to be split…

i don’t think anybody was thrilled about the sheldon pick at five… the majority of opinions on the blog seemed to be that sheldon would be the one that could contribute right away, but everyone felt we shoudl trade down to get him…. but just based on that fact, i dont’ see how some people can criticize the pick…we haven’t even see him play one game yet… kind of ridiculous if you ask me.

i think the most beautiful aspect of how this team was assembled is the fact that players weren’t acquired to appease the general public. instead bk has gone out and signed two veterans (their contributions will be HUGE!) without sacrificing our future.

By michael m.

August 8, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

ando, i agree that picking shelden most likely wasnt the most visionary choice. he isnt who i would have picked. and the way we went about choosing him so early, seemingly putting all our eggs in his basket without bringing him in for a workout along with other bigs, is an even more grievous error. but it’s done. you appear to derive more pleasure from looking back than looking forward.

in an effort to be productive about it and learn to accept the decision, i know i have examined what the other options were at the time. while it doesn’t make it better, it doesn’t hurt to try to understand. we have jj in the backcourt, that’s 40+ minutes right there. bk and woody decided they needed a veteran pg. and we have salim and childress who will get minutes as well, not to mention lue as another backup. i really wish bk would have managed to acquire another late first with the knicks to get marcus williams. he is the type of passer who would have allowed our wing players to flourish. dont get me started on gay. as much talent as he has, if we had drafted him, this blog would have been up in arms. we didnt need another 3. now foye and roy are both going to most likely have better careers than shelden, but mgmt. felt roy is a 2 and foye is a combo guard. but selecting either of them would have done two things: 1) since they were determined to acquire a veteran point, drafting foye would have rendered chill and salim useless, assuming he would have even earned their minutes. 2) we needed to draft a player who had a chance to come in and help anchor us defensively. most of the bigs are projects who may or may not ever contribute. shelden was thought by most to be the most ready to step in, although his upside was not thought to be as high. but look, there really weren’t any bigs at all who projected to be standout players. perhaps aldridge or thomas. personally i wanted aldridge and would have been willing to give up either salim or our 2nd round pick to move up in order to secure him. that is what i personally would have done.

understand that we did not know if we could get a really serviceable big like wright at an affordable price. it’s all well and good for you now to just assume it, but that’s not how it works. wright might not be an all-star but he can contribute. if he gets us between 8-11 points and 6-8 boards in about 25 minutes of action while helping to clog the middle, that is a plus. and in todays nba, a player’s price to production ratio is a huge factor.

look, ando, i think you have a lot to offer. and you may not realize how you always look at the glass being half empty.you dont see the inherent negativity in it. and i wouldnt want you to always be positive. but for once keep the thumbs in your pocket, it is not about being thumbs up or down. try to take a look at what we do have and to discuss in this blog how we will make it work. the roles that our guys might play in the context of a team and playing off of each other. you started a little bit by saying zaza will be the one that cuts into shelden’s minutes. but that’s really apples and oranges. it is the addition of wright that will cut into shelden’s minutes. just like before we acquired wright, it was going to be shelden that helped reduce zz’s minutes. zaza will most likely start at center. occasionally against teams with two bigs, both zaza and wright will be on the floor together. let’s just see what shelden does. it never made any sense the way most here perceived him anyway. you cannot call someone a career backup and then insist he is going to start from day one. look, i never thought boozer would be as good as he showed. let’s allow him to grow before showing him the door. and enough with the glorification of whoever we didnt select. there were no franchise players available when we picked and we needed someone with a chance to produce down low.

i have to believe you have enough vision and imagination to see how our team could work. or maybe you just like to talk about what doesn’t work, maybe that’s your whole thing. no, we are not going to win a championship this year but we are moving in the right direction. we have options now. all teams need role players as well. let’s talk about how we can maximize what we do have instead of what coulda, shoulda, woulda. even a born critic can broaden their wings.

By Jameyan

August 8, 2006 02:48 PM | Link to this

Hey!I have been blogging since the 13-69 season and I for one is excited about this season. We finally have a complete roster, trade Al for draft picks and cash, and guess what? We are right there in the hunt for the 8th spot. The key is we have to start off strong. No more 2-16 starts. This reminds me of the Memphis Grizzlies team of three years ago. When they made the move to Memphis they were horrible except for my favorite player and NBA champion Jason Williams.In 01-02 they started 1-8 and finished 23-59.In 02-03 They started 1-14 before finally beating Michael Jordan and the Wizards. They only won about 28 games but they showed promise. The next year they once started 5-3 and won 50 games,on route to the playoffs. They didn’t have any all-stars but they were deep, talented, and played as a team until Jerry West busted up the team. I feel the Hawks can do the same. We are young, deep, talented, and team oriented. So there is no reason why we can not make a push for the 8th seed in the East. If the laughing stocks known as the Grizzlies are now a repected team why can’t the Atlanta Hawks make the same turn around. I am excited and ready to go. Let’s Go HAWKS! I hope we don’t be on PAX TV anymore because that Sucks!

By Kevin

August 8, 2006 03:21 PM | Link to this

Folks,

To annoint Billy as GM of the year, he has to do something better than all of the others. I don’t think we are there. Look at Chicago; much better moves in the offseason and title potential.

I look for major changes to a team for that’s year’s offseason activity. Our changes so far:

1) Speedy - a good size commitment for a PG 2) Shelden / Jones - 2 bigs that are questionable:

• Will Shelden justify a #5 pick?
• Will Jones ever become a part of the picture?

3) Wright - a career 9/7 pro. We get him for $3 million/2 years. If we got him for the MLE, would this be considered a deal? I don’t think his talents bring a lot to resolve our problems. We need MAJOR help inside and I don’t think a cheap fix is what we needed.

All of those changes IMO are not a big splash and do not show Billy to be a risk taker. He plays it very conservatively and goes with pieces rather than difference makers. Maybe Billy thinks we have enough difference makers and is just looking for integral pieces on the cheap.

He has stated in the past that he is not strapped by ownership on his decisions. With the rise in ticket prices, do you think Billy is putting together the team he feels can compete with everyone?

I don’t see GMOY moves here; I see a gradual step up to improve his team. If we make the playoffs, is this year considered to be the ultimate prize?

I think we have had many opps to bring other big pieces; Billy just was not willing to take the risk. We could be farther along than we are and we can all second quess him, but I’m not willing to annoint Billy as one of the best GMs.

I say Portland, Chicago or Toronto gets better results than us this year strictly for the fact that their moves have been more bold and they are willing to improve at a quicker pace.

By Astro Joe

August 8, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

And talk of BK as GM of the Year or some kind of genius is truly ridiculous. Here’s the gamble that I think he and the owners are making. That we already have our offensive weapons on this team. Would anyone be shocked if JJ, Speedy, Salim and Lue deliver 50 points between them? Can Marvin, Smith and Childress combine for 30 points? Can Zaza, Wright and Shelden deliver 15? If so, that an easy 100 points and that would likely make us a top 10 offensive team in the league. I simply do not understand the continued discussion about guys like Foye, Roy or any other offensive weapon. We have them. I’d go so far to say that if Salim got the PT of Foye or Roy, he would likely score with them point-for-point. As it stands now, we go into the season with 3 natural SFs (Smith, Marvin & Childress), 1 natural PF in Shelden and 2 small centers in Zaza and Lo Wright. That will likely need to be fixed, but guys, we ain’t winning the title this year. We have time to iron out the wrinkles. But we are unquestionably better now than we were at the end of May.

Lastly, I can already predict that Shelden will get about 2 games to perform before the sky falls in. That’s about as much time as some gave JJ as a PG and then rejoiced when you thought he got moved to SG. (Many didn’t realize that he stil set up the offense despite having a smaller guard in the backcourt with him). Shelden’s numbers will not show his initial value. Is he making the right defensive rotations? Is he taking charges in the lane? Is he fouling people senseless when they drive the lane? Did he set a bone-rattling pick for JJ or Salim or Marvin? Did he push a low post player out of his comfort zone on the block? If you watch most young big men, they can’t stay on the floor long because they don’t know where to be on set plays. Or how to rotate defensively. Or how to set a creen without moving. Or how to defend the low post. Or how to block out on the boards. Or how to stay out of foul trouble. If being a young big man was purely about athleticism, why didn’t Chandler, Dalembert, Nene, Wilcox, etc. put up ROY numbers during their rookie campaigns? These guys took time not because their bodies needed to fill out, it was because their basketball IQ needed development. Anyone calling for Tyrus Thomas, Aldridge or O’Bryant to win ROY? Of course not. If Marvin and Smith get to play 20-30 minutes at their natural SF position, because we have a true PF who allows Marvin/Smith to do the glamour thing while he holds down the garbage thing, then that would be providing immediate value. Is a garbage man worth the 5th pick in the draft? No, if that is all he ever does. But if you believe that he will eventually start alongside one of those guys and that he can eventually put up double/doubles within his first 2-3 seasons and if you believe his presence means that either Marvin or Smith will become a legit star in this league (which will not likely happen with them on the same team), then yes, he is worth the #5 pick. I wouldn’t draft him for a fantasy league, but this is real ball and not a stat-based illusion. And in the real world, a complementary big man that helps you get from perennial loser to respectability and costs less than $8M/season is priceless.

Again, I would have tried to trade down to get the two picks from the Hornets. But last time I checked, the ‘06 draft was done.

By honest_abe

August 8, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

kevin, i’m sorry you lost me back in paragraph one…..so i guess based on your argument bolder is better? you sound like one of those knuckleheads that thought the BOLD trade move such as trading away smitty for jr rider and jimmy jackson was a great move. or maybe the other BOLD move like trading nique to get manning. nah you probably mean BOLD like the knicks trading kurt thomas for quentin richardson. or the knicks trading for curry or “franchise”…. BOLD is nice, it doesn’t necessarily translate into more wins!

back when i consumed 3 red bulls per day i would scream that most knowledgable bball fans should give any general manager at least five years before evalution whether or not his rebuilding plan has worked out. well we’re going into year 4 folks……we have the goods to trade, along with cap space, to potentially form a very good squad by the 07 season….

hey just a couple of months ago..everyone was killing bk for not having a pg….that he should’ve drafted marcus williams……everyone will notice that speedy will give us much better on the ball defense and he should be able to become acclimated to woody’s system a lot quicker than any rookie would have been able to…….

then everyone was saying we lacked any size..so bk goes and drafts a pf and signs a c……and now everyone is saying aaaaaaaaah we screwed up we should’ve gotten roye or foye….cmon! lets enjoy this young team grow, improve and eventually compete for a championship…ya heard????

By chris

August 8, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

Go ahead and put Shelden Williams down as the biggest flop in the lottery. Did anyone see the Rocky Mountain Revue? SW wears cemete shoes, he is glued to the floor. Unless he gets calls from the refs like he did at Duke, he will be abused by all!

By HB Ando

August 8, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

Joe, you’re all over the place. But I’m heading out, so I can’t respond with the detail I’d like right now. I’ll post something later this evening.

Mike M., you’re missing my point if you think this is about looking back. My primary point is looking forward, at what we will be, versus what we could be if this was being done right. It’s about a clear plan to compete for championships, versus slapping together a team that looks to max out as a competitor for the eighth seed over the next several years. If I was interested in OK, I certainly wouldn’t spend so much time here breaking down decisions on and off the court.

To be continued…..

By michael m.

August 8, 2006 06:04 PM | Link to this

a lot of good points in there astro, similar to what i was saying. shelden does certain little things that no other player on our roster really does. and he has more offensive skills than a typical garbage man. but that doesnt mean either marvin or josh smith are going to suffer. the beauty of it is we are not dependent on any one guy for every game. we have flexibility, versatily. being able to match up with your opponent or creating mismatches for the other team are coaching luxuries that not all teams have. hopefully woodsen takes advantage of that. i just wish everyone would stop insisting, or dwelling, on losing that flexibility. we do not have to trade marvin or josh smith, they will play together and we will see what the results are. they can also each team with shelden and benefit from the solid picks shelden makes. he sure helped marvin out with that during summer league play. really glad to see someone else remark on the fact that neither foye or roy were a need for us. like i said earlier, selecting either of them would have left both childress and salim without much to do. and each of those guys are really solid players who can team with jj in the backcourt for the 20 minutes that speedy is on the bench. we have a handful of guys that are growing and still have not come close to their potential. i am willing to bet that as we see who stands up to the challenge ahead, people on here on gonna go back and forth about who HAS TO GO. when the answer, for at least two more years, is NO ONE.

By michael m.

August 8, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this

ando, you are not looking forward. you are looking back. you’re a critic at heart. it’s what you enjoy. the fact that a lot of the choices you say you would make are in line with what i would have done as well is beside the point. it’s a rather pointless exercise.

as much as the pick of shelden never excited me, i cannot say that foye or roy were necessary for our team. neither is going to bring us a championship. only aldridge really had me jazzed, but even he is no sure thing. if you are wanting to say that foy or roye would have had more trade value down the line, you are right. but if we had selected one of them, i doubt speedy would have chosen to join the hawks. and we did really need a true point. i really wanted bk to move up and get marcus williams once he slid, perhaps making a wink wink deal with isiah in a future al s&t (i posted as much during the actual draft), but it didnt happen.

every decision that gets made affects future decisions. i dont care what you say, there was no way we knew wright would be available at 2 years/$6 million. he isn’t going to light the world on fire, but that is not the point. he is productive and talented. hell, he was drafted #7 overall in 1996. and while it doesnt make bk a gm of the year candidate (i am shocked that so many of you have taken such hyperbole seriously in your responses), it is a solid move by our gm. much like securing zaza was last year. for what it’s worth, a site by the name of hoopaddicts.com called it a steal, the sleeper deal of the fa summer.

ando, i have discusssed with you before how i am only truly interested in winning championships. i have no desire to saddle our squad with a team that cannot achieve much more than a first round playoff exit. we went through that with smittie, mookie and dikembe. so for you to throw that out as some sort of justification is ridiculous due to the fact that the moves we have made leave us in good position to deal further in the future, if need be. our team is young, talented, growing. it usually takes a number of years for a team to play together before competing for titles. a team that is settling for continual first round playoff exits is the hornets. if chandler doesnt step up his game, no one is going to want that contract. and peja is going into decline momentarily, if he hasn’t already started. i think he has, though he will benefit from playing with cp. of course you ando wanted to trade al for chandler and his albatross contract, which would have made it difficult to sign our own guys down the road. and wright would have not have signed with us if chandler was here either. so when tyson went down with another injury and deprived us of his 9 points and 5 rebounds, we would have had been stuck with just zaza and shelden down low. the hornets better hope chandler becomes the next ben wallace, but the odds arent high considering ben had to hustle his a*s off forever to get a big contract while tyson has been babied and coddled since coming out after high school ball in los angeles. i grew up in atlanta but live in la so i can tell you that chandler will have to overcome his laidback mentality. and given that he is already getting paid a ridiculous amount, well, you can figure out the rest. and that, my friend, is how you get stuck with an inablity to win championships. me? i will take an unprotected 2007 1st round pick instead if we can get it. and to all those that think gamechanging ballers just grow on trees, ripe for the picking, please let me know where you live. i’d like to get in on that. if you want to know who al should have been moved for, i will tell you. last year while it was going on, i wanted us to get darko. that’s a guy who it would have been interesting to see develop when given minutes. and minutes are one thing we could have given him. bk and woody screwed that one up, but i’m gonna harp on it because, like i said, it does no good. and it doesn’t make me feel any better to point out that that’s what i would have done. i sometimes get the feeling a few bloggers secretly enjoy the hawks losing as it makes you feel good about yourselves in some way, as silly as that is.

anyway, just my two cents. i do enjoy hearing all the productive comments that many of you bring. good or bad. it would just be cool to for once see us talk about the hawks moving forward. it’s not all bad, you know? and ando, just so you know, i do appreciate and respect the depth of your opinions, not that you necessarily care. i just think you get stuck in mud sometimes and would like to see you get out of it and expand your mind so we can discuss the actual atlanta hawks.

By AP source

August 8, 2006 07:00 PM | Link to this

Take this for what it’s worth

Indy and Atl talks have been renewed. The hold up was over a 2007 or 2008 Pick and amount of Cash.

It is very likely that Tellem will be able to strike a deal with Indiana no later than Friday.

Nothing official but this is new information in regards to talks this week. Not hearsay but factual information.

I will update if hear more

By ILL-logical

August 8, 2006 07:25 PM | Link to this

BK is lining up his next job with the AH talks-a*s’t gm with Pacers. So guess who gets the better end of this deal?

By NumbaOneFan

August 8, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this

After that post by Michael M, I think everything has been said…. Great Post, Selah !

By Cisco Kid from the ATL

August 8, 2006 07:39 PM | Link to this

This is for HB Ando and all of the negative ‘wanna be’ NBA general managers that post on this blog. First of all, I don’t work for the Hawks. I’m a Hawks fan and an NBA fan.

Obviously, my enthusiasm isn’t because of the Hawks record the last three years. But you have to look at the big picture! If you remember, the Hawks had a bunch of malcontents with overblown salaries on their roster and Billy Knight blew up the whole thing and started from scratch.

Obviously, some of you have not followed the NBA close enough to know that rebuilding a team takes more than three years. You must be smoking something if you think you just blow up a team and go to the playoffs three years later.

I keep hearing about Chris Paul, but some of you brainiacs don’t remember that Milwaukee and Utah passed on him, and there were many NBA experts who were not sure whether Paul was big or tough enough to take the beating of the NBA game night after night.

Consider the fact that many league insiders thought Marvin Williams was the best player in the 2005 draft. I guess the jury is still out on that assessment, but Billy Knight probably picked the player that most NBA general managers would have picked.

Face it, New Orleans got lucky with Chris Paul. This was no stroke of genius. Don’t blame Billy Knight for going with the league’s consensus number one pick.

As of today, Billy Knight has built a team that is two deep in all five positions, they are ten million dollars below the salary cap (which is good since there were no blue-chip free agents this year) and they still are going to get some value back for Al Harrington.

No one said that Billy Knight was GM of the Year last year. I am just telling you that this guy has made some great decisions and like any other GM, has made one or two mistakes.

Mike Woodson was a great selection as a coach and we need to remember that we have a very deep squad and the youngest team in the NBA. Most of these guys have not even scratched the surface of what they will be in the NBA. What do you ‘wanna be’ general managers expect? Eastern Conference Finals?

Remember, the Hawks have the youngest team in the NBA. Why wouldn’t you expect for them to have one of the five worst records in the NBA? You have to be kidding me if you expect me to believe that you know anything about basketball, much less the NBA.

Peace and hair grease. And by the way, go back to watching the WNBA you bootleg NBA executives!

By roan st

August 8, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

New agent opens options for Atlanta’s Harrington CLIFF BRUNT Associated Press INDIANAPOLIS - Al Harrington’s new agent said he is willing to listen to offers from all teams, making what looked like a done deal for the Indiana Pacers to acquire the free agent now seem uncertain.

The Atlanta forward, who had played six years for the Pacers, dumped agent Andy Miller and chose Arn Tellem of Wasserman Media Group. Tellem, a heavy hitter who also represents Houston’s Tracy McGrady and Memphis’ Pau Gasol, will officially become Harrington’s agent on Monday.

“We will explore the entire range of options available to Al,” Tellem said. “We consider every team in the mix until there is a deal.”

Harrington is considered the top remaining free agent on the market. He averaged 18.6 points and 6.9 rebounds per game for the Hawks last season.

The Pacers have made numerous offseason moves and have said they would like Harrington to play a key role in their change to a sleeker, faster-paced style.

But Golden State and Denver have reportedly expressed renewed interest in recent weeks.

Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh and president Larry Bird did not immediately respond to phone messages for comment.

Tellem is looking forward to representing the versatile 26-year-old.

“Al is going to be an extremely valuable addition wherever he lands,” Tellem said. “He has already cemented himself as one of the NBA’s up-and-coming young stars.”

Tellem said Harrington is much like Utah’s Andrei Kirilenko - someone who can play multiple positions and is effective on both ends of the court.

Harrington played two seasons with the Hawks after six years with the Pacers and has family members who never left Indianapolis.

The Pacers have worked with Tellem before, as he’s the agent who worked out Jermaine O’Neal’s seven-year, $126 million deal in 2003. He also was Reggie Miller’s agent.

Speed is not Tellem’s concern, though he’d like to give his client enough time to get comfortable in his new surroundings.

“The quality of the deal is the most important element,” he said. “We will review and exhaust all meaningful options until a fair deal is reached. A lot hinges on Atlanta, but the period ranges from very soon to a couple of weeks or more.”

AP Source, I think your colleagues are screwing you over. Looks as if the exact opposite of what you said is happening.

By AP Source

August 8, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

roan st, Sorry but I have to inform you just posted a FT .Wayne news release with sections of information that are a week old.

Like it or not the information I provided is fact. Do with it what you will.

Also to be clear most people already know Tellem has spoke with several teams this week.

My information is that the talks have remained serious with Indiana, enough to warrant a deal done by Friday at the latest.

No guarantees of course, but I am not getting my information from someone’s news article.

I am happy to provide what I can, when I can.

By JSmith5

August 8, 2006 08:25 PM | Link to this

Thanks AP, Bball Princess on Hawk Squawk is hinting something similar as well, so I guess I buy it.

By JSmith5

August 8, 2006 08:41 PM | Link to this

Courtesy of Real GM

The Hawks appear to be the focal point in this stagnant period of the off-season. They have the last “big name” free agent (a.k.a. Al Harrington) in a holding pattern but are open to consummating some sort of a sign and trade. Of course, a deal will only be completed if Billy Knight’s demands are met. What might those be? They’re actually quite simple – a first round pick with minimal protection, no multi-year contracts, three million dollars, and the inclusion of John Edwards in a Harrington package.

It appeared as though the Hawks and Indiana Pacers had agreed to a sign and trade that would have sent Harrington to Indy, with a fresh six-year/sixty million dollar contract, in exchange for a trade exception and a future first round draft choice. However, this deal did not meet all of the aforementioned demands. Therefore, the deal appears to be caput (at least for now), which has prompted other teams to return to the Harrington sweepstakes. Golden State has maintained a strong interest in Harrington and their GM, Chris Mullin, even said he’d be open to a deal but only if the Hawks were “interested in a basketball move.” Essentially, that’s code for Mullin wanting Billy Knight to take on a big contract like Troy Murphy or Aldonal Foyle and I don’t see Knight agreeing to it.

Fortunately, during this protracted Harrington situation, the Hawks haven’t been prevented from making moves. They recently agreed to a two-year/six million dollar contract with former Hawk, Lorenzon Wright. This was a fantastic signing both in terms of finances and basketball wise. I thought Lo-Wright would get at least mid-level exception money from some team in need of size. I mean, when you look at the contracts big men are getting nowadays (e.g. Nene signing for sixty million dollars) it would make sense for a solid contributor like Wright to ask for somewhere in the neighborhood of six or seven million a season. Signing him for six million over two seasons is the definition of a bargain. On the court, Lo-Wright will provide stability, rebounding, and toughness. His numbers won’t jump out at you, but his contribution will be felt. He was an important piece to the Grizzlies frontcourt the past couple of years and I believe he’ll be just as important with the Hawks young frontcourt. He could wind up being a great mentor to our rookie big man, Shelden Williams.

It’s strange how things work out. I remember when we first acquired Wright from the Los Angeles Clippers back in the 90’s. He was supposed to inject youth and energy to our aging frontcourt which featured Dikembe Mutombo. The infamous Pete Babcock was so enamored with Lo-Wright that he signed him to a six-year/forty-two million dollar contract AND traded two first round picks to the Clipps in order to acquire his services. Obviously, Wright didn’t live up to expectations. His play was solid, but not worthy of such a large contract and the loss of two draft selections (one of which turned into Chris Wilcox). We eventually dealt Wright to Memphis in the Shareef Abdur-Rahim trade. Now things have come full circle; Wright is back in Atlanta but signed to a much more reasonable deal and he’s expected to bring veteran experience and leadership to our young and energetic core of big men.

The Wright signing will also play a part in the continuing Harrington negotiations. Now that the Hawks have added some quality depth to the frontline, no team can try and finagle with Knight about his demands trying to offering up mediocre big men with bloated contracts. B.K. can now confidently say the team is only looking for draft picks and cash rather than a stop-gap at the power forward and/or center position.

When it’s all said and done I believe the Hawks and Pacers will hammer out a deal for Harrington. Indiana is the only team willing to give him the contract he desires along with the financial flexibility (e.g. the 7.5 million dollar trade exception) and draft selections to entice Billy Knight.

http://hawks.realgm.com/articles/556/20060808/hawksnewslowrightreturnswhileharringtonremainsupinair/

By Don

August 8, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

I like this signing.

We’re putting the pieces together. Remember, this is not a one-year process. It’s likely a five-year plan, and we’re in year three.

The first year, they blew it up. We got Joshes and made the first steps.

Last year, we added Joe, Zaza and Marvin.

We’re halfway there. This year, we didn’t add as much as some folks would like — but we need time more than talent. Time for Joe to grow, time for Marvin to be the cornerstone, time for the Joshes to show they’re more than just role players — and for the rest of the team to jell as a team.

People keep looking at the Lakers and Celtics of the 1980s as models. You’re not going to have All-stars and Hall of Famers at every position anymore.

What you need to look at is teams like Detroit, Phoenix and Dallas — teams built around a core of 8-9 players who play … get this … as a team!

My only concerns are that the ownership situation and continuing squabbles and frustrations will break this core up before we know for sure it can work.

I think it can. I really do. It’s possible it might all fall apart — but I have confidence in the core people people we’re building around.

We need time. Last year I thought we would 25-30 games and show improvement as the season went on. This year, I think we’ll win 35-45 games and make a run at the playoffs. I won’t be surprised if we fall just short — but I won’t be surprised if we’re the 6th seed either.

It’s the two years after this one that are important. If we come into next season without seeing significant improvement — then we can wonder if it’s time to blow the Hawks up again.

However, I think we’ll all be expecting (and rightfully so) a playoff berth in 2007/8 and beyond.

Give this team another year to 18 months. If they’re still this bad, I’ll be with the majority of folks here who aren’t happy.

But I’m willing to bet we’ll be happy.

Later,

Don!

By michael m.

August 8, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this

thanks numbaonefan

By roan st

August 8, 2006 09:40 PM | Link to this

AP Source, the article I posted is not a week old it was on todays newswire. It came from inside hoops which updates their info everyday. I posted a real article and all you are doing is making claims with no evidence to back up your statements.

By AP Source

August 8, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

Yes Roan St. I know the article came out today , but portions of that article were taken from last week’s AP releases.

Inside Hoops is updated daily from other News Sites, and it’s moderated by one person, most stolen from HoopsHype.
It’s not that reliable, trust me.

The information I was kind of enough to share ,needs no “proof” if you only consider proof links or websites.

I am talking about real conversations and information that I have heard or was told directly to me from someone involved in the discussions.

I don’t expect everyone to believe me, that’s fine I am just posting what I know, nothing more.

By NumbaOneFan

August 8, 2006 10:14 PM | Link to this

One more observation, we are all…. myself included very anxious and on pins and needles wondering what Al will bring us in the trade. The one thing we must all remember is that this team is pretty much set rosterwise, barring any injuries, some tweaking of the roster with players cut by other teams and any free agents we might still pick up between now and trainig camp…. this is it folks! I have a sneaky suspicion this team will surprise a lot of people,this edition of the Hawks has a nice resemblance to the first copuple of teams Hubie Brown coached while here. A couple of tier one guys, some very talented 2 and 3 year players, a couple of rookies and some court savvy and hungry vetererans. We are 2 deep at every position with some very talented youngsters. I am going to stick my neck out on this one but the way things are shaping up… and Woody totally blows it should play 500 ball and contend for the 6th thu 8th spot. I have not been a Billy supporter because of his smugness and I know it all perception, but I will say he is head and shoulders above Pete Babcock. Mr Babcock had no clue and basically destroyed this franchise with his philosphy on trades and drafting. I really do believe this team has the ability and chemistry and will be a very pleasant surprise. Ok guys fire away and call crazy and ask me what I a have been smoking.

By cowa

August 8, 2006 11:12 PM | Link to this

AP Source, thanks for the info! Indy is the only place that makes sense if we’re not willing to take back contracts to any large extent. Do you know if which year BK is fighting for (07 or 08) and what kind of protection of the pick will be placed on it (top 3, top 50, lottery)? Any insight is greatly appreciated!

By Tony

August 8, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this

Don’t like any of the trades Billy has made but he has had some pretty good draft picks

How about seeing Steve Francis and Joe Johnson in the backcourt I think it could work. I believe Francis will play with a chip on his shoulder this year and getting a vetran big like Malik Rose For AL

By AP Source

August 8, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

Cowa BK wants at least a partial-unprotected ‘07 pick considering they are without for the next draft.

Walsh is still trying to stand firm on offering a 2008 lottery protected pick.

Really that’s the entire hold up. The few million in cash here or there are minor details , in the broader scheme of things. Although these two share a relationship, neither want to back down, but the feeling is one will by weeks end.

By michael m.

August 9, 2006 12:47 AM | Link to this

tony, you’re crazy. your desire for francis shows how little you actually know about basketball. we are in 2006, not 2001.

ap, bk better not back down. walsh is acting ridiculous. indy is getting a bargain. it should be unprotected 1st in 2007. if bk compromises, it should be just to allow 1-10 protection on the 2007 pick. if bk backs down on this, it’d be a pathetic move. i would rather move on to other teams just on principle.

By Speed

August 9, 2006 08:27 AM | Link to this

I’m curious if the majority of Hawks fans think that the playoffs are an expectation this year. I’m not flaming at all, but it looks from the outside in, that Sheldon is a role player, Wright is a 15 minute a night okay back up, Speedy is maybe a bottom rung starting point guard, but an excellent back up, and as another put it, your losing Al your second leading scorer and second/third? leading rebounder. Is it all dependent upon the younger guys, who I really like, making a big jump this year?

By mountain_jim

August 9, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

I agree that Arn needs to convince Walsh that it’s a 2007 pick or no deal because they are getting a great deal due to ownership and $ issues..

A lot of folks have been badmouthing BK over holding up the deal, but if Indy has not even been willing for the pick to be 2007 then BK was right to hold firm on that imho.

By tony

August 9, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

Michael m

I know alot about basket ball and one thing you need to realize the hawks still lack a starting point guard

Claxton and Lue are excellent backup point guards but they lack the size or strength or defensive ability(in terms of thier size) to keep the opposing guards honest

Now Michael! Claxton had a pretty good year but he was playing behind CHRIS PAUL

and Lue played very well playing behind D Fisher that included a team of Kobe, and Shaq

Now if I had a choice Francis would not be it but the knicks are desparate and we probably and get him pretty cheap meaning the knicks can send him over with some cash

Now if Francis becomes focused and plays team ball he can be and incredible pick up that would really have the hawks declaring playoffs

if you ever want to challenge my basketball knowledge please let me know

By Mike

August 9, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

See now that makes a lot of sense, we have locked in our primary pos, and also have a chance at taking over one of the young knickerbockers in Stevey Franchise. His attitude is a little abrupt but we need a little attitude to our team which we lack, we don’t have anybody to contol the ball with ticks left in the 4th but Jo Jo. Hopefully we will realize that Jo Jo is a player we can build a team around and not let him go like twon, sheed, gary P, J.T, hey you figure if they gotta nickname, there name is called alot in the game for some reason. My call, get stevie franchise and work something out in a 3 way deal with L.A/Denver for Lamar Odom, or Golden State/Sac/Indiana for Bonzi Wells. Hawks fans we are in an alright spot, Trust.

By Kappy

August 9, 2006 10:55 AM | Link to this

OH MY GOSH

reading an article today on espn on the ongoing AL situation and saw the funniest quote i have ever seen in my life. here it is from AL’S agent tellem…

“Tellem said Harrington is much like Utah’s Andrei Kirilenko — someone who can play multiple positions and is effective on both ends of the court.”

hahahahahahahahahahahah. who’s he kidding? i dont even know where to start with that. Kirilenko? in what way? defense? are you kidding?

tellem i’ll take two of whatever you take every morning. al is like kirilenko on both ends of the court. sure he is.

hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha

By Mitch

August 9, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

Kappy, shhhhh let them take care of Harrington, I also agree that he isn’t the player that everybody keeps making him out to be if so, I mean what are his creditials? He hasn’t done anything impressive, rebound here and there shoot here and there but you know we can get a better player that fits the scheme than Al and like mike said Bonzi would fit at the SF think, Steve at pg, Jo Jo at the 2, and Bonzi at the 3, look at the versitility of this with Sheldon and Wright/Pachulia in the frontcourt I mean we can already match Chicago’s front court an 07 playoff contender, we can match the Bucks with Bogut a playoff team from last year and with that five we can oust out Washington I mean that five can do some real damage.

By honest_abe

August 9, 2006 11:01 AM | Link to this

i don’t know which is funnier…..

harrington being compared to kirilenko or hawks fans begging for the “franchise” cancer!

must be funny wednesday

By Mitch

August 9, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

See sir what you don’t understand is Steve has been on 2 ridiculous squads, what Orlando and Crowded NYC. He hasn’t been a playoff contender since Houston and we all know he doesn’t want to be with Isiah. Yeah he is a cancer but this it the new 2006, there is a cure for cancer now and Woodson is the cure. With his ball handling, veteranship, defense and I will leave scoring to 4th because we have Jo Jo but the moral of the story if we can get a backcourt with experience, poise, and determination to play DEFENSE I mean Steve d ing up the pg pos, Jo jo at 2 and Bonzi d ing up the SF and we can get Marvin and josh in the game you gotta agree a little honestly honest abe.

By honest_abe

August 9, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

sorry mitch i’m not buying it……..i’ve seen what one selfish player can do to an entire franchise… the hawks have a group of impressionable, young and extremely talented players….you have to surround them with players that have a tireless work ethic and only care about winning! good ol stevie comes no where near fitting that profile….. besides his game has regressed each year…which tells me he has no ambitions of improving his game OR his team!

By Mitch

August 9, 2006 11:20 AM | Link to this

And a last comment, the Al sign and trade must be perfect, this is a chance at 41 and 41 making the playoffs compared to 38 and 44 and missing our chance by 2 games, Good Luck Knight True Hawks Fans BELIEVE in you and when we make the U-turn don’t you haters be on our bumpers like the cops aight, lata!

By Mitch

August 9, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

But Abe, in Houston He had a veteran coach in Van Gundy, inside presence in Yao and shooting with cuttino, the only reason he was oust out of Hou is because T-Mac became available and who wouldn’t want T-Mac! You give him to houston where he is the show and ship him to NYC to a bunch of knuckle heads including the franchise and he REGRESSES back to himself attitude and all. BUT you give him a sheldon he can dump the ball to or drive and dish to Jo Jo or josh on ally’s all day like A.I. and Iggy in Philly and a coach and a team TRYIN TO GET BETTER and watch steve franchise be a player even you can’t believe.

By mitch

August 9, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

sorry i meant ship him to orlando where is the show

By mitch

August 9, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

and forget franchise, all we need him is steve francise.

By honest_abe

August 9, 2006 11:35 AM | Link to this

no more arguing about stevie….he sucks, he has a ridiculous contract, his attitude blows….AND there’s no way in hell he’ll ever come play for the hawks…soooo this argument is plain ol dumb

By A Thinking Fan

August 9, 2006 12:01 PM | Link to this

some of us have way to much time on our hands and need to put down the crack pipe, and stop rollin’ up those bad fellas…

By MR. BLOGGER

August 9, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

What up people. For months now i been reading these bloggs everyday, and i think it’s finally time for me to add my imput.

Francis would be a great pick up for the hawks, he would give us a leader and a triple-double threat everynight. Along with JJ they would form one of the most dagerous back courts in the league(along with chicago, NJ, and detroit). Francis was a problem because he was on a talentless team that was losing. With francis i see the hawks as high as the 4th seed in the east. And if you don’t think so YOU’re smoking something. But this arguement is pointless BK would never do it.

By Mike

August 9, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

Sorry for posting something unrelated but here goes….Joe Johnson has played more minutes at the games than any one. His assist to tunover ratio is above 2 to 1. It’s great not having to wait til fall to see him play.

By Webmaster

August 9, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

tony and MR. BLOGGER are the same person.

By MR. BLOGGER

August 9, 2006 01:03 PM | Link to this

Also ABE you suck! you call youself a hawks fan but you a always bashing the team. you’re never happy or optomistic. Probally can’t make a layup or dribble the ball, just critize these great athletes. You and every other Fareweather FAN just watch we will make the playoffs 42-48 wins. and at least to the second round.I bleed A-TOWN! GO HAWKS!!!!!!!!

By MR. BLOGGER

August 9, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

NOT Tony just a hawks fanatic

By honest_abe

August 9, 2006 01:17 PM | Link to this

article from foxsports:

1. Item: The Hawks have been going nowhere this century, and despite all the young talent and a brand new beautiful building, the ownership continues to be both undermined by frayed loyalties and under-funded in general.

What this really means: It’s not the reason the Hawks haven’t dealt Harrington and center John Edwards to the Pacers for cash, a future draft pick and the $7.5 million trade exception. But it is symptomatic of a franchise that has been inert for far too many years. Even when the All-Star game was there, showcasing beautiful Philips Arena, there was no local energy, and now the problems have grown to a boiling point again. There still has been no resolution to the split in the “Atlanta Spirit” ownership group between Steve Belkin and everyone else. That leaves general manager Billy Knight stuck in no man’s land.

That brings us back to Harrington, who at 6-foot-9, 250 pounds, is that rare blend of power, athleticism and has the capability of playing both forward positions. He was drafted by the Pacers, he fits perfectly with their desire to play faster and more diversely — next to his best friend Jermaine O’Neal and young Danny Granger. It’s something that has to happen for them to move forward. As for the Hawks, well, other than the very, very young talent that they’re developing for coach Mike Woodson, they’re a franchise stuck in suspended animation. Despite a huge market, they never support the NBA and would be far better off playing somewhere else — is anybody in Seattle listening?

hmmmm mike kahn is a moron….considering atlanta had some of the highest tv ratings during the playoffs, i think atlanta is definitely a bit time nba market!

By Play that funky music whiteboy

August 9, 2006 01:32 PM | Link to this

here it is

By michael m.

August 9, 2006 02:15 PM | Link to this

mitch, stop calling jj by the ridiculous name of jojo, you make him sound like a clown. add that to your desire for francis and you are my nomination for Mr. Worst New Blogger. of course that honor should tie in nicely with your alter ego. are you that insecure that you have to create a second persona to agree with you? man, i cannot even begin to tell you how dreadful francis has become. even when he was in houston he often played out of control. vangundy wanted him out. but go read phil jackson’s book on his year with the lakers a few years ago, the year before he and shaq first left, and in particular pay attention to the chapter on their first round matchup with houston. you will see how francis was out of control even then. i have a good friend who likes orlando and i told him last year how it would go badly, especially since they no longer had his good friend mobley. you act like orlando was a terrible team, but any squad with dwight howard is anything but. they are good, though of course they got much better once they were able to unload francis and his insane contract for basically nothing. francis only got in the way of jameer nelson and even refused to come off the bench during one game. they guy is a problem killer. anyone who calls him stevie franchise (as opposed to franchise killer) is clueless and not paying attention to actual basketball games.

By newkid

August 9, 2006 02:55 PM | Link to this

Mountain Jim, ‘preciate the manner in which you’re carrying the flag (1st rounder in ‘07 or no deal) on the Pacers digest site. Good job! Keep it up.

Interesting insight over there about Al’s interest in teams other than Indy (e.g., Denver, Boston, etc). Do you think this is Arn (perhaps in cahoots with BK) ratcheting up the propaganda in an effort to get the deal we want from Indy, or might it be legit?

Thanks.

By G-Money

August 9, 2006 02:59 PM | Link to this

How does a blog start to spin so wildly out of control. No way in H**L, BK is going to pick up Stevie Franchise. You might as well bring back Isiah Rider and Big Dog. I’d rather take my chances at 40 games with what we have. Given the pick up of Wright, the Hawks now have the ability to put a competitive product on the court with a real chance of beating all those who did not make the top 8 and possibly nipping those who were 6-8 seeds. Coaching is going to be key. Style of play is going to be paramount. We don’t have a traditional big so we can’t play traditional ball. With the league going more toward Euro ball (given the foul calls), young talent is uniquely poised to rock. Let Arn help BK out since BK helped Arn out with the 5th pick. T*t for tat!

If the Spirit needs the cash, then help them out so that the train can leave the station. I’m tired of reading the S-O-S on this blog. Can somebody help out with an new topic — like how in the hell will the Hawks win over 40 games with the current talent? Whose got an answer for that one — there seem to be such great basketball minds on this site!!

By G-Money

August 9, 2006 03:02 PM | Link to this

I believe that Arn and BK are definitely in cahoots!! How else would you take Sheldon at 5. Everyone has already weighed in on him as a player. No one really feels like he was a legit 5. Additionally, the deal was done so long before the draft, that something had to be going on. It’s Arn’s turn to show a little reciprocity.

By Astro Joe

August 9, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

More than receiving an ‘07 vs. ‘08 pick, I hope we get a pick with very few restrictions. I know that the ‘07 draft is forecasted as loaded. But do you really expect all of those college freshmen/sophomores to come out and wait in line behind Oden and Noah? I don’t. I think several of them will wait until the following year when they could have a better shot at a top 3 pick. Lastly, for all of the hype, most guys projected 4-10 in next year’s draft are mostly SGs and SFs. Do we need anymore 19 year-old wing players? Give me a top 3 protected ‘08 pick and let’s get this thing behind us.

By Gutz

August 9, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

Isn’t Franchise due like 50mil. the next 3 yrs or something outrageous like that? We don’t need that bum period! And we don’t need Bonzi Friggin Wells either! What are you clowns talking about. I would rather have Marvin or Jsmith at SF or PF than Bonzi Wells who is way overrated. Hawks will contend for a playoff spot this year. I have no doubt in my mind on that with the moves we have made along with Marvin and Josh Smith ready to breakout this year. So we don’t need any of the above mentioned bums. Go HAWKS!!

By reese

August 9, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

Tony, Mitch, Mr Blogger and all other true understanders of talent. Steve Francis and Bonzi Wells would look very nice in Hawks uniforms.

Most of the hawks bloggers here are afraid of players who play with intensity, possess both offensive and defensive skills or are true all star players.

They can’t envision JJ playing alongside Steve Francis or Bonzi. They can’t comprehend the fact that JJ’s 2 to 1 turnover ratio on the olympic team is due to the fact that he is playing with better caliber players and that placing better caliber players on the hawks will bring similar results.

Instead, they prefer to watch college age kids playing in the NBA and expect us to cut them some slack because they are so young.

They believe in addition by subtraction. You know, give away players for nothing and believe that some day in the future we will be better off. But, all that seems to happen is we are a losing team and make amatuer mistakes.

They bring up Isaiah Rider all the time, but forget that Shelden looks like he will be Alan Henderson, Josh Childress plays like Demar Johnson and Lorenzon Wright plays like Lorenzon Wright. You know, the guy we gave a big contract and he failed. Now, he is allowed to fail because we are giving him less money.

Michael M. and Ray believe that I am negative. Far from it, I just believe in addition by addition. You know, additonal talented players brings additional wins.

WOW, what a concept.

By honest abe

August 9, 2006 09:02 PM | Link to this

“They bring up Isaiah Rider all the time” um how about glenn robinson? how about steph how come he’s an all world talent but he loses everywhere he goes? or maybe you like someone like vince? hmmm ya he definitely makes his teams better, but it’s all about him…pure selfishness…….i know superstars have to demand the ball at times….BUT the really great ones only care about wins and WILL DO WHATEVER THEY HAVE TO DO TO GET THAT WIN!…ie shaq, duncan, jordan, malone, dwade, chauncey..etc…the list goes on…

“but forget that Shelden looks like he will be Alan Henderson,”

LOL the guy hasn’t played a $!%$!$ game yet and your already to anoint the him as yet another alan henderson! (alan was a very serviceable big for a number of years before back problems.)

“Josh Childress plays like Demar Johnson” that is such an anine statement.

johnson avged 6 pts, .6blcks, .75 stls, .95assts, 2.35 rbds, 77%ft, 38%fg

childress has avged 10 pts .5 blcks, 1stl, 1.8 assts, 5.6rbds, 80%ft, 50%fg

ya he just pretty much doubled demarr’s production but ok they’re about the same…

“Lorenzon Wright plays like Lorenzon Wright. You know, the guy we gave a big contract and he failed” you make it sound like bk signed him to that ridiculous contract. um no he got rid of that contract and then just signed him on the cheap!

“Michael M. and Ray believe that I am negative. Far from it, I just believe in addition by addition. You know, additonal talented players brings additional wins.”

yes, if only getting talented players translated into more wins….let me expain something to you reese, there’s this thing called team chemistry. i will even break it down for you, because i think you might have a hard time understanding the concept. say you have a bucket of apples and one is rotten…..well in just a couple of days the others will rot as well….

to translate in bball terms when you bring a guy that has a history of being malcontent, selfishness, getting into trouble, not listening to coaches it destroy’s that THING they call team chemistry….

bringing in jr rider like you so casualy mentioned didn’t mess up just that one season……….NO we’re still feeling the effects of that trade today! IT CAN RUIN A FRANCHISE….

you see reese some on this blog is not against bringing in talent…they’re against making stupid moves to bring in overpriced players, that only care about themselves…..who out there do you think we should realistically get at this moment? there isnt’ anyone….how about letting this current team get better, don’t sacrifice our future while doing it…then NEXT YEAR when there is actually a great FA class, along with a great draft, we’ll have a bumper crop of young players that we can ship for a number of different move, trade for a draft pick, s&t for a big name player, or just sign a big player…………so quit that sarcastic crap about everyone wanting this hawks team to only have mediocre players because it just isnt’ true.

By mountain_jim

August 9, 2006 09:15 PM | Link to this

http://www.hoopsworld.com/article_18380.shtml

By Eric Pincus for HOOPSWORLD.com Aug 9, 2006, 19:16

Though a number of interested free agents remain on the market, the Los Angeles Lakers may already have their roster in place.

Al Harrington has yet to find a home and the Lakers have often been mentioned as a suitor. Unfortunately for LA, the Atlanta Hawks want a package that includes young center Andrew Bynum. That’s a price the Lakers are simply not willing to pay. They have very high hopes for Bynum, who made dramatic strides in his second summer league. Still just 18 years old, Bynum’s development is still inconsistent, but LA is more than prepared to wait.

With Bynum off the table, the Lakers have a standing offer based around Chris Mihm. At this point talks are quiet as Atlanta, along with Harrington’s (impending) new agent Arn Tellem, shop for the best deal.

Should all other discussions fail, the Lakers could be a fallback option. The Indiana Pacers are still considered the favorite.

That said, LA is moving forward with the expectation that Harrington will not be a Laker.

Another option at forward would be Drew Gooden of the Cleveland Cavaliers, who has expressed interest in playing for the Lakers. Whether a sign and trade with the Cavaliers is feasible is immaterial. LA isn’t willing to overpay for Gooden’s services.

Laker GM Mitch Kupchak is assuredly aware that his mentor, Jerry West of the Memphis Grizzlies, traded Gooden for Mike Miller a few years back. Though Gooden has developed into a relatively solid player, he is not on the Laker radar.

Barring a change in the Harrington situation, the Lakers are confident that their current roster is strong enough to exceed last year’s campaign.

The following is an early depth chart projection:

PG Smush Parker, Shammond Williams, Jordan Farmar SG Kobe Bryant, Mo Evans, Sasha Vujacic, Aaron McKie SF Vladimir Radmanovic, Luke Walton PF Lamar Odom, Brian Cook, Ronny Turiaf C Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm, Andrew Bynum

Will Bynum overtake Mihm? Turiaf get Cook’s minutes? How much time will Farmar get? What will role with Vujacic play?

As it stands, the roster doesn’t leave room for the restricted free agent Devin Green, the recovering Laron Profit or the non-guaranteed contract of Von Wafer. Second round draft pick Danilo Pinnock will probably end up in Europe next season; the Lakers retaining his rights. LA is no longer considering Kareem Rush.

The Bottom Line Though there is obvious duplication on the roster, don’t expect any changes before camp. The Lakers are amenable to a multi-player trade to open a few roster spots, but have yet to come close to anything real.

They have a small shot to land Harrington, but it’s simply not likely to happen.

The team isn’t prepared to consider buying out any of their players (McKie), but as training camp opens that certainly can change.

Though still imperfect, the Lakers have improved. They added the shooter in Radmanovic, depth in Evans and Williams, along with a very nice prospect at the point in Farmar.

Only the most diehard fan expects the Lakers to win the championship this season, but a more realistic goal might be 50 wins and a visit to the second round of the playoffs.”

By Taurus

August 9, 2006 09:33 PM | Link to this

I totally understand what BK is trying to do. I don’t agree, but understand. Two things stood out with the Hawks last year if you watched them. The first, they were one of the worst defensive teams, and number 2, they went into the 4th quarter with leads on a lot of nights only to lose. To solve the defensive problems, he brings in one of the best shot blockers in college. I prefer Randy Foye, but the one thing that doesn’t change from college to pro is the ability to block shots and rebound, and that’s what Shelden Williams does. He also brings in Lorenzen Wright, who averages almost two blocks a game, while playing less than 25 minutes. Neither player is an offensive juggernaught, but thay both have decent offense. With two shot blockers in the post and a third shot blocker from the weak side in Josh Smith, you can play tighter perimeter defense and your team defense as a whole gets better. A lack of a true point guard down the stretch in the 4th quarter is a big cause, why they loss most leads and games in the 4th. A good point guard will settle the team down in the 4th when the other team tries to make a run, and also, steer his team to put the other team away in the 4th for a victory. Speedy Claxton is a good point guard, but has been in situations where there was a better point guard being groomed, ie Tony Parker and Chris Paul. Speedy will be this years Mike James. He may not put up the same numbers scoring, but I’ll give him 14PPG and 6AST. With a starting five of Speedy, JJ, J.Smith S.Williams, and Wright, with Lue, Stoudamire, M. Williams, Childress, and Zaza coming off the bench, I think we can contend for a 8th seed this year. The real key is getting 1st round picks for Al and cash. I would really try to work a deal with Portland or NY. Both teams are going to be high up in the lottery for years to come.

By michael m.

August 9, 2006 10:04 PM | Link to this

you want addition by subtraction, reese? exhibit a is the orlando magic after unloading steve francis last year. go look at how they finished the season. and that was after months of otis smith trying to dump francis on anybody willing to take the now mediocre malcontent and his 3 yr./$50 million contract. the fact is you just don’t know basketball.

By michael m.

August 9, 2006 10:15 PM | Link to this

al harrington to the lakers

lakers 2007 first round pick (no protection), chris mihm and two million dollars (from the lakers) to atlanta

brian cook, aaron mckie, john edwards and one million dollars (from the lakers) to charlotte

here is a trade that is very doable and makes sense for all involved. the key is charlotte currently being nine million dollars below the salary cap minimum, which is set at 39 million. if they do not get to the minimum, they lose that money anyway. so the three players they would be acquiring, all with expiring contracts, are basically free for them. cook has a team option they can use if they decide they want to keep him on. on top of the free talent, we give them one million out of the three million dollars sent to us by the lakers.

sekou, hope you are right that either bk or the owners check this blog out because this trade actually does more for us than the indiana trade. as an expiring contract, mihm might bring us something else at the trading deadline.

By reese

August 9, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

Honest Abe, all I have to say is did I stutter. I suggested 2 players who are realistically available. You just don’t like them. I won’t even mention that Magloire and Chandler were available.

We can go back and forth with examples of teams who brought talented players that succeeded and failed. But since you provided examples, I’ll provide examples.

Chicago brought in Dennis Rodman and won championships. Sacramento brought in Artest and propelled themselves into the playoffs.

Ask Bill Cartwright or Toni kukoc if they liked the way Jordan yelled at them or froze them out of plays. But, you know what, Jordan was such a great player it didn’t matter.

Honest Abe, the only paragraph that you did copy and remark on from my earlier post is the following

*”Instead, they prefer to watch college age kids playing in the NBA and expect us to cut them some slack because they are so young.

They believe in addition by subtraction. You know, give away players for nothing and believe that some day in the future we will be better off. But, all that seems to happen is we are a losing team and make amatuer mistakes.”*

You know why you did comment on that point. Its because you are a classic example of those points. You tell me to wait until next year for future free agents or future draft picks.

Do you realize that some of the best players in the world (duncan, garnett, shaq, mcgrady, vince carter, steve nash, ray allen) were available as free agents or trades and the hawks signed zero of them. What makes you think that all of a sudden we are going to sign the one of them in the future. I provided examples last year of how we could acquire Artest and it wasn’t done. I acquire examples of how we can acquire Francis and it can be done.

Stop living in the future and make a stand. Go out on a limb and suggest a team that you feel will provide talent and chemistry. And, if your answer is just stay pat, then there is no need to respond.

By the way Taurus, Lorenzon Wright has never average close to 2 blocks a game in his whole career.

Also, I just watched the end of the U.S. vs Brazil game. We better be glad that the refs made those phantom calls that caused all those technicals. JJ, Chris Paul and Arenas, if your reading, you better practice those free throws. You missed way too many and the end of the game. At least we escaped with the victory.

By reese

August 9, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this

Michael M. and Honest Abe, mediocracy breeds mediocracy. Both of you are content with being cheap and playing young college aged players, servicable players and dreaming of future drafts/ future free agents.

I just don’t live in that futuristic world. I want to make moves now. BK has already proven that he is able to get rid of talented players if he doesn’t want them around. So if things don’t work out with other talented players around JJ and Josh Smith, then trade them. But don’t try to make a move because of what Isaiah Rider did eons ago.

By the way, Isaiah Rider was a very talented player who did get his portland team into the playoffs. But, I don’t think that he and Lenny Wilkins were a good match.

By michael m.

August 9, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this

francis is just not that good. you don’t get it. guess you never will. luckily your opinions carry no weight with anyone other than your dog and the four walls you reside between.

i have no trouble paying for talent. i do have a problem with paying people that do not offer much more than a headache. meaning i would just as soon give francis a figurative dime as i would you. go wait by your mailbox, it’ll be like beckett’s “waiting for godot” all over again.

one bad decision like taking on a francis can mess your team up for half a decade. but you wouldn’t understand that. well, understand this reese. maryland wanted francis to leave school early because he was such a problem. and they were getting him for free. then it’s off to the league where he holds up vancouver and forces a trade to houston. rudy t. let him run wild with his boy mobley and that was his peak. once van gundy arrived, it was downhill from there. maybe if this was soccer and there was a shootout, with a game of one on one, he would have value, although still not in relation to his current salary. but guess what, that’s not the nba. now go back to that 2000 sports encyclopedia you are so fond of.

By reese

August 9, 2006 11:36 PM | Link to this

Michael M., I’d have to say that you and honest abe are resembling the ladies waiting for Godot in your relentless believe that the Hawks will be better in the future, will acquire better draft picks in the future or will sign better free agents in the future.

Don’t worry about me waiting by the mailbox for your last two cents, I prefer a Marvin Gaye CD and a young lady to occupy my time.

With that, I’m out for the night

By Tony

August 10, 2006 12:25 AM | Link to this

I guess the guys that are shooting the negative comments about the hawks acquiring Francis didn’t read the part where

I said if he becomes focused and plays team ball and the fact that he would come cheap!

I am almost willing to put a $100 on it that if he gets out of the NY debacle he has a breakout year

By vdunkndunk

August 10, 2006 02:51 AM | Link to this

Reese…the players you think the Hawks should get are all “available” for a reason:

Steve Francis has a massive contract and a massive attitude, which is funny because he’s never actually won anything. You’re talking about a guy who will be playing for his fourth team in as many seasons if NY can actually find someone who wants him.

Bonzi Wells quickly wears out his welcome everywhere he goes, so obviously his talent-level doesn’t justify the headaches he brings and the salary he’ll want. You’re talking about a guy in his prime who’s about to play for his fourth team in six years.

Jamaal Magloire is an overrated and overpaid malcontent who doesn’t block shots and doesn’t shoot a high percentage from the field and doesn’t do much that you want a center to do other than rebound. You’re talking about a 28 year-old “former all-star” who’s about to play for his third team in as many years even though he mans the league’s hardest position to fill.

Tyson Chandler just signed a massive contract that he doesn’t deserve. The only thing he’s proven so far is that he can’t score in the NBA and he can’t stay out of foul trouble. You’re talking about a guy who averaged less than 2 ppg in the playoffs this year.

So Reese, basically it sounds like you’re strategy is to acquire a bunch of problem players with massive contracts who have never won anything and who get shipped out as soon as their new teams start to figure out why their old teams wanted to get rid of them. Brilliant.

By will c.

August 10, 2006 07:36 AM | Link to this

Great job BK. I believe we have a legitimate shot of making the playoffs with the makeup of the team you’ve assembled. Anything less than 40 wins would be a failure in my book and you should look at bringing in a new coach who will run the ball like the Phoenix Suns system. Phoenix has good talent but the system brings out the best in all of them.

http://www.williamcoit.com

By jhan

August 10, 2006 08:17 AM | Link to this

Did someone seriously try to compare Steve Francis with Michael Jordon? Wow!

By honest_abe

August 10, 2006 08:58 AM | Link to this

reese: i can’t believe i thought you actually knew what you were talking about…

what a horrible comparison…you bring up rodman and artest as examples…you fail to mention that they joined veteran teams with strong leadership! the bulls had michael and scottie….the kings had miller and bibby… the hawks are an extremely young and impressionable group…so you add a person with questionable character and it could possible ruin the entire team!

yes all those great players you mentioned were free agents at one time…back then the hawks were a franchise going backwards …right now we are led by one of the top 5 sg’s in the game! surrounded by a nucleus of rapidly improving talent…combine that with cap space and the future looks good…that’s all…..no need to add those crappy players like you so mentioned…….now maybe if we had a roster full of proven veterans and the leadership set…then adding someone like francis would be less of a risk … at the moment the notion is ludicrous!

By Dee

August 10, 2006 11:26 AM | Link to this

I couldn’t have said it better myself, Honest_Abe!!

By Dee

August 10, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

I don’t normally respond on these blogs, I just like to read what’s on people minds about the Hawks…and I find very few people who truly have any faith in them. I’m a fan at heart and as long as we continue to improve, that’s all what matters to me..weither they win 40+ games or just 10 more games than last season, honestly I’m OK..cause it could have been worst..we could win less than last season..I choose to look at the positive NO MATTER WHAT!! And that’s just the way I see it!!

By Bye

August 10, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

I’m leaving on a Jet Plane..

Don’t know when I’ll be back again..

By Ken Strickland

August 10, 2006 01:04 PM | Link to this

What is this? I leave town for a couple of days and come back to so much negative energy. The differences of opinion seems to be nothing more than ones preferred approach to assembling a winning team. REESE, you seem to prefer the Pat Riley approach, building through veteran acquisitions like he did in NY and Miami. This approach requires a very large financial investment in both players and a strong veteran coach, and, if you’ve been paying attention, the Hawks can’t afford either. You listed some former FA the Hawks failed to go after, but the truth is, most teams failed to go after them. Take Duncan as an example. All GM’s knew the Spurs had reached a preliminary unsigned contract agreement with him(same with Garnett). When a contract expires it’s no longer counted against the teams CAP. They use this new CAP space to sign other targeted FA. When FA is completed, they sign the prearranged contract they have with Duncan, using the Larry Bird Rule. If they signed Duncan 1st, their CAP wouldn’t allow them to offer more than FA exemptions. That’s why GMs seldom go after FA like Duncan, Garnett, Shaq, etc., because they know they aren’t available. S Francis wouldn’t be a good acquisitions for the Hawks. Part of what has recently made him a journeyman player is not all his fault. What got him drafted high in the pros was his individual talent and playing style. These are the very things that are causing him problems now. When certain players are asked to change their stye of play, it takes away the very essence that got them to this level, and makes them feel average and unable to contribute at their accustomed level. I believe this is Francis’ problem, and it doesn’t make him a problem player, as some coaches and GMs seem to think, it simply makes him a player having problems adjusting. JR Rider was not a talented player, although he was a talented scorer. He wasn’t quick or fast, and wasn’t a good ballhandler, passer, rebounder or open court player. And he didn’t even pretend to play any DEF, although, to his credit, he had tremendous strength and jumping ability. Once GMs and coaches recognized his skills were limited, and not worth taking on his unlimited problems, he was UNOFFICIALLY band from the NBA. Rodman and Artest had/has OFF/DEF skills that helps teams win and GMs and coaches valued them above any potential problems. We have a very young team with young players trying to adjust. So bringing on a vet like Fransis, who is also having adjustment problems, wouldn’t be a good fit chemistry wise or leadership wise. Just my semi-expert opinion. Aren’t they all.

By Zach

August 10, 2006 01:09 PM | Link to this

This Just In

The Associated Press is reporting that the Atlanta Hawks have signed NBA veteran Ken Norman to a two year contract. Ken has been playing in the Australian Professional League for the last three years since being released by the Houstan Rockets back in ‘01. “The Snake” which Ken was nicknamed during his time with the Los Angelas Clippers, is looking for one more solid run in the NBA and hoping to bring some much needed veteran experiance to the youngest team in the league.

By honest_abe

August 10, 2006 01:28 PM | Link to this

zach…….lol!!!

By reese

August 10, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

Dee, Honest Abe, Michael M., vdunkndunk and Ken Strickland, if you are happy with the team the way it is then thats fine. I just characterize you as the type of fans who pick their teams because they enjoy the color of their uniform. I was that way once and just loved to watch my New York mets team play no matter how many games they lost.

But as I grew up, I learned the game of basketball, I played the game and I taught the game. Now, I prefer to analyze the moves of the GM, analyze the different coaching styles, analyze the way players are playing and enjoy watching teams who place all facets of the game together and entertain.

I just have a much higher expectation out of these players because I played against NBA players in High School, college and street ball.

I’m use to the thrash talkers, problem children, bullies on and off the court, one dimensional players and skill players. I can appreciate watching a player grow and develop. Not just 7 at a time. Thats what the college game is for.

I’m not just looking for a veteran team. I’m looking for a mixture of youth and veteran players. I’m willing to step out on a limb and decide which of my youth I’m willing to keep and which I’m going to let go. This will allow salary cap restrictions to be met.

If they progress somewhere else, thats fine. I’m focusing on making sure that the ones that I chose are being placed in a situation where they can progress. Where they can learn the nuances of what players like Steve Francis and Bonzi Wells (who has been on several playoff teams) have to bring.

I was somewhat happy with BK once. When he brought Malcontent Rasheed Wallace to the Hawks I was happy, but I wished he had kept Theo to play alongside Rasheed and JT. Then, when he traded Rasheed the malcontent to Detroit I realized he didn’t care about winning for a very long time.

By the way, how many different uniform colors have we had since BK have been here?

By ray

August 10, 2006 01:46 PM | Link to this

Reese,

I’ll start with a much earlier post you made, the 5 key indicators. People who make such lists tend to strike me as non-fans. You sounded like you were done being a Hawks fan, yet you claim you still are one. Whatever. I don’t see how you’re anything but negative with posts like that. Re-read your own post and tell me which part was positive? In fact, none of what you’ve had to say has been positive here recently at least. Like I said, whatever…I just don’t see how you can think of yourself as not being negative.

Your argument about addition by addition is weak, to say the least. Honest Abe and Michael M. are both guys who I don’t always agree with, but both have already hit the nail on the head. So I’ll reiterate and add a little of my own thoughts. First, addition by addition doesn’t work, at least as far as Francis and Wells go. In most cases, you would be subtracting to get Francis via trade. Unless I’m wrong, he’s under contract right now. So that’s not addition by addition. Not to mention he has attitude problems and we don’t need that. Also, that negates the signing of Claxton, which has already occurred. Not to mention what we’d have to pay Francis for the remaining years on his contract. Next, if you sign Wells, another problem player at times, whose minutes and development do you cut? Wells plays the two and three. Yes, he can score and even defend. So, do you take minutes from JJ? Yeah right. How about Smith or Marvin? Not wise. Wells would have to take away significant minutes from any one of our younger fellas (who need the minutes)to be effective. Also, how much would we be paying him and how might that tie our hands in the future? Once again, addition by subtraction. So exactly how does your addition by addition argument work again?

Lastly, Francis and Wells are not Rodman and Artest. The latter two have/had stronger all around games and are/were superlative players. And, as has already been mentioned, they were on teams who had very strong floor leaders capable of bending their wills to a team attitude and effort. Artest will be such a leader if he keeps his head on straight. Rodman needed a leader and had two great ones in Rodman and Pippen. The Hawks don’t have such veteran leaders. Nothing against JJ at all, but he is now coming into his own as a leader, it’s just his second year in this position. If Francis was such a team player or leader, he would have either led in NY or found a role and played it well to help the team. He did neither, and he didn’t get it done in Orlando either. Hell, they couldn’t wait to get him out and a young Jameer Nelson in. As for Wells, he’s a role player and needs leadership. And we’ve got plenty of people to play the two and three already.

By honest_abe

August 10, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

blah blah blah blah…

ok why don’t you write another essay outlining more specifically those nba types you played against…i’d like to see your resume..lol…point being i really think most people on this blog could care less fella….and how many times to i have to explain that WE AREN’T CONTENT WITH THIS TEAM!!!! but did you seriously expect the hawks to contend for a title this year? what you talkin bout willis? this is a franchise in rebuilding mode……i’m only going to say this one more time…rebuilding takes time and if you can’t see the consistent improvement from year to year and how this hawks team is set to make a giant step next year…then your either blind or seriously lacking some intelligence!

By dale

August 10, 2006 01:56 PM | Link to this

You people crap me up. You must be the dumbest NBA fans in the Country. I can’t stop laughing about someone writing that BK should be the GM of the year, then another guy says I’ll stay positive know matter what. You people are a joke.

Sekou, I expected more from you. Lorenzen Wright is not a difference maker. He is an undersized center in this league, he dosen’t block shots and has failed to show true consistency throughout his career. If you look at where he was drafted, you would have to consider him a bust.

I don’t understand why BK would sign another undersized center when we already have one, to go along with our undersized power-forwards.

So once again I’ll ask ho is going to guard Okefor or Howard? Who is going to keep Haslem off the boards? Who is going to guard paint for us?

For the love of God what the Hell are you people smoking. We picked up 3 players (Shelden, Speedy, and Lorenzen) I’d rather keep Al Harrington and send those guys back.

I will admit for 3 million dollars Lorenzen is a good deal. However he is not what this team needed. The Bucks just traded Jamal Magloire for Steve Blake and Brian Skinner, I find it hard to believe that we couldn’t offer more than that. For a true NBA center.

By honest_abe

August 10, 2006 02:01 PM | Link to this

too bad nobody really cares what you think dale!

By Astro Joe

August 10, 2006 03:09 PM | Link to this

Dale, please do the math:

Speedy at $6M + Lo Wright at $3M = $9M. Delk at $3.5M + Collier at $2.5M + Al at $6.5M = $12.5M. Oh, and one more data point for you. Atlanta Spirit losses = $20M.

I don’t think that those of us who are optimistic are weighing this season’s moves against a payroll increase of $15M-20M and a stable ownership group. We are looking through glasses that saw an ownership group that could not afford to replace their dead back-up center. I think we are looking through glasses that says if we could only afford $9M in contracts, did we spend the money on the right players. If you want to argue that we should have signed Banks and Mohammed, that would be a good debate. But Magloire’s deal is $8.5M. So tell me, which vet PG would you bring in for $500k that would have generated the same excitement from you star player (JJ) as the Speedy signing?

By vdunkndunk

August 10, 2006 03:11 PM | Link to this

Reese obviously went to the Isaiah Thomas school of managaement, where the philosophy is to acquire as many overrated, overpaid “veterans” as possible and then see if you can win 20 games.

And Dale, the only thing I see in your post above is some name-calling and a bunch of rhetorical questions and inconsistency. You criticize Lorenzon Wright for not being a shotblocker, suggesting instead that we go out and get Jamaal Magloire…a guy who didn’t even average 1 block per game despite playing over 30 mpg. And you say we are too undersized to keep Haslem off the boards? It almost makes me think you don’t realize that Haslem himself is severly undersized at barely 6’8.

By Gutz

August 10, 2006 03:16 PM | Link to this

Yeah Dale you obviously don’t know anything about the Hawks and their team so your comments are pointless and stupid like you!!

By MR. BLOGGER

August 10, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Dale get the hell out of hear. I’m tired of hearing how undersized the hawks are. A Big man is a luxury not an necessity. We are undersized just like the other 3/4 of the NBA. But we do have good rebounders and big bodies to throw at Howard. And ZAZA and Lorenzo can compete in this league. So find something better to do than come on blogs and purposely dis the team and fans. So get a life or go look at some internet porn or something.

By dale

August 10, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

You all can kiss my grits !! Wannabe Hawk Fans.. get a life

By Gutz

August 10, 2006 03:57 PM | Link to this

hahahah. Dale your a loser! yeah were wannabe Hawk fans! That makes tons of sense. Sounds like your the one that needs to get a life! Try to actually watch the Hawks and NBA basketball before making stupid comments too. you might learn something

By MR. BLOGGER

August 10, 2006 04:04 PM | Link to this

i am tired of hearing AL for Draft picks. We don’t need any more young talent to wait on to develope we need veteran leadership to teach these young playeres how to win. Someone who can close a game out and be a spark in the locker room. A PROVEN LEADER. Like him or not francis was an absolute stud in Houston he made people around him better and carried the Rockets to the playoffs. This meth that players ruin frachises is BS. It’s all a ploy by management and the media to set these young players up to look like BAD GUYS when the demand more money. The media ruins frachise, every team have problems it when the press blows it up is when it effects the teams.JJ can’t do it alone; we are one more piece away i can feel it.

By clyde

August 10, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

Just like Sekou said the test is the 82 game season. If the Hawks can play above 500 basketball next year then Dale is wrong. But if they can’t then you have figure Dale is right. Me personally I think were going to have trouble scoring with Al gone. Our defensive MIGHT be better but its hard to say who will replace him on the offensive end. I know Lorenzen Wright or Sheldon won’t.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By MR. BLOGGER

August 10, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

F**K the future we need a veteran; we are young enough people. HELLO!!!!

By Ken Strickland

August 10, 2006 04:09 PM | Link to this

There are some valid well thought out responses on this blog, and there are some that seem to be motivated by emotion and/or frustration(I’m no exception). DALE, in your last post you stated; “I don’t understand why BK would sign another undersized center when we already have one, to go along with our undersized power-forwards”. Then, in the last paragraph you stated; “I will admit for 3million dollars Lorenzen is a good deal”. You may have answered your own question. Remember, when running a business, even in the pro sports, MONEY ALWAYS MATTERS. Also remember, BK is a GM, not an owner. His primary task, as with all GMs, is to use his knowledge and expertise to carry out the wishes of ownership. Some are given more leeway than others in performing this task. It is foolish to think BK hasn’t been hampered by the financial and legal limitations, as well as the complicated structure, of this ownership group. It is important, for all of us arm chair GMs, to consider all potential factors involved when a GM/team makes a decision. REESE, I think you are being unfair when you characterize some of us as being happy and contented with everything that has transpired with this team. With me, it’s not a matter of being totally happy and/or contented with the team as it is, I’m simply not unhappy. Stop finger pointing and being overly critical just because some of us support the path Hawks’ ownership has taken towards rebuilding. We all want to reach the same goal, so relax and enjoy the ride.

By dale

August 10, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

Whoever is using my name to post needs to check themselves.

To respond to Astro Joe, I thought the goal of this organization was to win basketball games. Bringing in Speedy, Lorenzen and Shelden, in my opinion or any knowledgable NBA fan’s opinion doesn’t exactly get me optimistic about the Hawks chances of improving. Especially when they had the 5th pick and the draft, under the salary cap by millions, and the ability to sign and trade Al Harrington. I believe Billy could have worked the 5th pick in the draft a lot better. I believe Marcus Williams will be a better pro than Speedy Claxton. Speedy is not a true pg, Marcus is!!! We could have saved the money, picked up another pick and still work a deal for Magloire.

Guys take the blinders off and get honest. If I told you back in June that we would draft Shelden Williams with the 5th pick, sign Speedy and Lorenzen, and get nothing but cash for Al, would you have believed it?

I’m sorry but I don’t see anything on this team that makes me think we will be better than we were last year.

Mr. Blogger who are you? This will be my only response ever to you, you will then be added to my banned list with Honest Abe.
Clyde and Ando would tell you that the Hawks seriously lack interior defense and they are right. Almost every team in the east has very good big men, we have not been able to defend these bigs for years. We consistently got pushed off the boards last year, and we had no true etimidating presence in the middle. WE HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THAT!!!

I want the Hawks to win, I’ve been a fan for over 15 years, but I’m telling you, these moves BK has made are not going to make this team any better.

By honest_abe

August 10, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

dale i got nothing but love

By dale

August 10, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Ken, that was a great response. Yes I did say that Lorenzen Wright for 3mil a year is a good deal, it’s a bargain, but it’s not what we needed, that was my point. Why sign a player, just to sign a player. We were told a couple weeks ago by one of the owners that they were in the process of signing a quality and well known big man. If this is what they were talking about, I’m disappointed.

By honest_abe

August 10, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

ahhhh shut your yap….maybe if bk went out and somehow got big dogg to come back to atl…it would end this incessant mind numbing blabberer that is the what we’ve come to know as dale :) heh

By Astro Joe

August 10, 2006 05:02 PM | Link to this

Dale, our interior defense was truly horrible. But it wasn’t Howard or Bosh or Haywood or Shaq or or Chandler or Dalembert or Al Jefferson or any other big that was scoring career highs against the team. It was smaller players who were able to penetrate our swiss cheese defense and get to the basket with only Zaza or Al down low to do anything about them. Speedy has to stop dribble penetration, Smith and Marvin must learn to play better on-ball defense. But having a quick big like Lo Wright will help and having someone willing to do all of the dirty defensive work like Shelden will also be great. Like I keep saying, BK went out and improved the defense, much like McKay did with the Dirty Birds. Personally, I think that was the exact way to go.

By Gutz

August 10, 2006 05:10 PM | Link to this

thats easy Clyde, Marvin will be stepping into a starting role now and can easily average 14pts and 7rb. a game I think. I mean he averaged almost 9pts and 5rb. a game last year playing what 20mpg if that? You have to also remember Josh Smith is coming into this year with very high expectations after playing incredible the second half of last year. He was putting up Kirilenko type numbers filling every stat category up. I see him averaging 15pts, 7rb, 4ast, and 3blk. a game this year. Plus we now have Speedy who will score as well through penetrating and making our players even better dishing the ball for easy baskets. JJ is going to average even more this year as well since he doesn’t have to be the primary ball handler. Look for JJ to average around 25ppg this year with his usual 6.5ast. You guys are not thinking at all what these changes are going to bring to this team especially with the signing of Speedy. Sheldon and Lo Wright will provide the interior defense we sorely lacked last year which cost us at least 10games where we blew the lead going into the 4th quarter. Plus you have to remember Zaza will be even better as well and will probably average around 15pts and 10rb. a game since he won’t be in foul trouble EVERY single game now with help from another solid Center in Lo Wright backing him up now instead of bums like Edwards and Batista. I’m just wondering if any of you actually watched the Hawks last year! Were going to be fine guys and will contend for a playoff spot this year. Believe it or not i’m saying it now.

By Ken Strickland

August 10, 2006 06:17 PM | Link to this

DALE, thanks for acknowledging my points. Your opinion was that Wright wasn’t what the Hawks needed. You also stated that we should have traded for Magloire. Let me give you some stats that might help you, and everyone else, put the Wright signing into perspective. MAGLOIRE: MIN 30.1, FG% 467, FT% 535, RB 9.5, BLK .98 & PTS 9.2 WRIGHT: MIN 20.1, FG% 564, RB 5.8, BLK .59, & PTS 5.8 PACHULIA: MIN 31, FG% 451, FT% 735, RB 7.9, BLK .50 & PTS 11.7. If you were the GM/owner, would you pay an extra 7M per yr for an extra 3.7RBS,.39BLKS & 3.4PTS per game. Keep in mind Magloire got his numbers playing 10 more min a game as a starter. Considering Magloire is a former Allstar, but in decline, his numbers aren’t any better than Zaza’s who’s a first time starter on the incline. To further put things in perspective, Zaza & Wright together cost considerably less than Magloire, who we’d have to give up something in trade to get. Also, we would lose Magloire after this season, unless we signed him to an even bigger contract. Pachulia: 6’11” 265lbs, Magloire: 6’11” 259lbs, Wright: 6’11” 240lbs. Exactly when or how did our centers become so undersized next to Magloire? Does it make more sense now?

By jhan

August 10, 2006 06:46 PM | Link to this

Dale, does this mean that you are on record as predicting another 26 win season? I think 35-40 will be closer to the actual wint total.

By MR. BLOGGER

August 10, 2006 07:05 PM | Link to this

jhan i agree with you, but if we get a solid player out of the harrington deal we just may have 42-48 wins

By MR. BLOGGER

August 10, 2006 07:29 PM | Link to this

Dale who are You!! You come online and completely disrespect this team and everyone on this blog and you act like you’re the victim. If it wasn’t you that post that trash then you shouldn’t be offended. But don’t be mad at me for defending my team.

Plese don’t stop responding to me cause i won’t stop responding to you. (what ever that means) LOL!!! A-HOlE

By NumbaOneFan

August 10, 2006 08:57 PM | Link to this

It is easy to see that some on this blog dont think the Hawks improved themselves significantly during this off season, I for one do not share that opinion. “Your Atlanta Hawks” is poised to play 500 ball and should sneak in to the playoffs anywhere from the 6th to 8th spot. This squad is gonna surprise a lot of teams if it can be properly coached and barring any major injuries. there is a nice mix of rookies, 2 and 3 year players and some very talented and capable veterans. We are not going to challenge for a championship no doubt but, mark my words this group has the makings very blue collar and lunch pail hardworking group. Again it is going to depend on solid coaching and avoiding injuries when it is all sid and done. Now please stop beating that dead horse about Magloire, Francis and Wells. If anyone shares my views and optimism then join in ,if you think I am crazy them sound off!

By Get Better

August 10, 2006 09:05 PM | Link to this

As speculation and hopes run rampant — keep in mind that unless the Hawks can get a good young player/prospect in return (e.g., Bynum) it will likely be a draft choice and cash for Harrington. This team will not - knowingly :) - take on bad contracts (not withstanding the peanut gallery’s opinion of JJ’s and Speedy’s contracts). Also they are restricted to contracts of 4 years or less (hence no GS trade with Troy Murphy; not that BK would pull the trigger on that one anyway.

BTW - I scanned this string quickly, but I don’t think I saw any ‘rejoicing/debating’ over the CBSSportsline article by Tony Mejia hyping Speedy Claxton:

“My odds-on favorite to get his shine on is Claxton, a strong, lightning-quick point guard who is finally being handed the reigns of a team. At 28, he’s sufficiently seasoned to handle it.

There’s a reason Joe Johnson and coach Mike Woodson were so ecstatic at Claxton’s introductory press conference. They know what he can bring. Claxton is a scorer, penetrator and defender yet to reach his full potential.”

….can’t wait for the Harrington S&T to be finalized. :)

By cowa

August 10, 2006 09:17 PM | Link to this

Some quick hits:

Stevie Francis - like his game, could be really good for us, BUT IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN ON HIS CURRENT CONTRACT. He’s got a bad contract and ownership has said no long term contracts will be taken back in a trade. Period.

Magloire - would have loved to see him come here. It’s not about size, it’s what you do with it. Magloire was in a bad situation in Milwaukee, where Bogut and him coudln’t get out of each other’s way. Magloire will be solid where ever he plays. And a 1 year contract for $8.3M is something that should have worked with ownership.

Any one thinking that the Hawks are going to win between 42-48 games is crazy. I understand the team has improved, but as I’ve stated in the past, what team hasn’t that’s below a 4 seed in the conference? Every teams fans think there team has the potential to fight for the playoffs. My guess is that Portland thinks they have a shot at the playoffs, but realistically, they don’t. A 42 win season would be a 16 game improvement over this year, which was a 13 game improvement over the previous year. It’s nice to dream, but I feel even a 36 win season would be incredible.

Lastly, we are not getting anyone in the Al trade that is going to be at his level. We’re not getting a starter for him, we’re at best (from a fan’s POV) getting some potential. Veterans have big contracts, and ownership is not willing to take those on (see Astro’s math above). If we don’t get eitherdraft picks or youngster’s back, we will just end up with a trade exception and no players.

Just my opinions though.

By Get Better

August 10, 2006 09:18 PM | Link to this

This one is for Tyger

Still looking for a job is Michael Olowokandi, Wells, Al Harrington, Chris Wilcox, Drew Gooden, Keith Van Horn, Melvin Ely, Eddie House, Reggie Evans, Qyntel Woods and DerMarr Johnson. Although the Kandi-man has been a bust, I’d be shocked if someone doesn’t sign him for, say, $2-$3 million per season. Maybe on a short deal for, say, two years. Just to see if he evolves…

By reese

August 11, 2006 01:15 AM | Link to this

Ray, the 5 indicators are an observation of what bloggers were saying last year before our 26 win season and what fans were say before our 13 win season and what fans have been saying since our last playoff appearence.

Basically, they keep dreaming that the future will solve our needs. Lets make our future now.

VdunknDunk, I guess as Ken Strickland so nicely put it, Pat Riley goes to the same school. By the way, didn’t he just win a championship.

Ken Strickland, don’t worry, I’m one the most relaxed guys in the world and will watch the hawks no matter who they have. (I hope BK didn’t see that last comment).

However, until they place a playoff caliber team on the floor, I’m going to keep providing my analysis of what they need to do to accomplish that deed.

To paraphrase Marvin Gaye, “I’m just a stubborn kinda fella whose got my mind made up” on what the hawks need to make the playoffs.

Good night all

By ray

August 11, 2006 01:18 AM | Link to this

NumbaOneFan,

I noticed you brought up something that no one else has really been hitting on: injuries. Enough people or the right people being injured will cause big problems. At the same time, it may present bench players with opportunities. However, that usually translates to losses rather than wins on young and inexperienced teams. So, we’ll see how it goes. Needless to say, if this happens, then the usual naysayers will crow “I told you so.” I think certain people just wouldn’t know what to do if there wasn’t something negative to dwell on. And, if the team won 40 games or more, they’d be screeching about why we couldn’t win 50. But you know, that’s all well and good because so many good points are being brought up.

I doubt if there’s a single fan here that is entirely satisfied with this team’s current position or progress, let alone the performance of ownership and management. If someone chooses to be positive, so be it. It doesn’t make them dumb. Nor does being negative, to be honest. However, the way in which you are able to articulate your viewpoint/argument makes all the difference. Some people do not have the skill to do so and therefore expose themselves. I’ll leave it at that.

I think people are still forgetting the money situation. We can’t just go out and get any player for any price. People keep coming up with scenarios, but not all of them work, especially when it comes to how they fit into the plan (whatever that might be). Also, we have the players that were brought in, so let’s see what we can get done with those guys. Rehashing what could have been is just loads of fun, due to hindsight being 20/20. However, neither that nor demanding some sort of changes right now changes the present or the future. This isn’t being satisfied with the team we have, it’s realizing this is the team we have for better or worse and now it’s nearly time to play. If Coach Woodson had the attitude that some of you have, he’d be no good to this organization. He has to be positive to an extent in order to teach and help the team get better. If it still doesn’t work, then he can bow out (or get cut loose). But somebody has to take the reins, put in the work, and have some degree of positivity. Some of us as fans have the same kind of attitude. Negativity does not lead to the kind of motivation needed for success.

Astro Joe, you made some really good points, in my opinion.

Honest Abe, you are cracking me up, man.

Ken, some people will constantly get hung up on the height/weight issue and make it their main argument. Thankyou for pointing out the stats on Magloire, Zaza, and Wright. What really matters is strength, positioning, instincts, work ethic, etc. While I’m not one to jump out and defend BK for his moves, he may have done the best thing he could’ve by signing Wright. For one thing, many of us (myself included) were hollering for a post presence in the Harrington S&T. Instead of taking on some huge contract with a guy that may or may not have helped in ways we needed, he got a veteran big for fairly cheap. That’s outside of the Harrington deal. Sure, we can talk all day about who we could’ve signed instead, but does it work in the big picture? MONEY is still an issue here folks…

By ray

August 11, 2006 01:37 AM | Link to this

Reese, I see what you’re saying, really I do. But answer me this: what do the futuristic viewpoints of a handful of fans have to do with the moves of this organization? Are you mad at the fans or the people who are actually in control of the situation? Also, what do you mean by making our future now? Now as in today or now as in this season and next? We don’t have Pat Riley as a GM and we have some broke owners, man! This isn’t Dallas or NY or any of those other organizations with loads of money to work with. Our owners are really holding us back in my opinion. No, I’m not blaming everything on them, but the lack of money and stable ownership (kind of hand-in-hand aren’t they?) is really hampering things in my opinion. And no, I don’t agree with all of BK’s decisions either. I think some of them were just not the best that could be made. But once again, like it or not, with the exception of the draft, he’s still working in a confined area. So exactly how do you see us making our future now? I’m not being sarcastic, just curious. I for one can only rehash what could have been done in the draft and in free agency or trades. But I think we’ve heard more than enough on that already.

By NmbaOneFan

August 11, 2006 09:07 AM | Link to this

Hey Ray thanks for your input on the injury issue which as you said no one has even mentioned freom what i have read here. You as well as a few knowledgeable fans on this blog provide some positives and some obvious deficiencies in this team, however I will stay the course in reiterating how this edition of the Hawks is definetely a work in progress that gives me the best feeling I have had in in recent years. They are not a championship caliber team yet but the pieces are starting to come together.

By Dale

August 11, 2006 09:29 AM | Link to this

Ken stats are good, but they don’t always tell the story. Magloire is a better post defender than Lorenzen Wright and ZaZa. Take Dallas for example, Dampier is just as big as Diop and puts up better numbers, but Dallas plays better when Diop is on the floor. Same thing with Cleveland, Big Z puts up great numbers, but they play better when Anderson Varejo is on the floor. We don’t need another stat guy on this team, we need some size and toughness and I believe Magloire can provide that.

Guys, please I respect your optimism for this franchise, believe me I used to be there myself, but it just ain’t gonna happen for this current team.

The Hawks finished as the fourth worst team in the league last year. I just can’t see how the additions of Speedy, Shelden and Lorenzen added with the loss of our Captain Al Harrington, is going to change that from happening again.

Jhan, to answer your question, I see the Hawks actually taking a step back. Charlotte and Orlando have improved their rosters. Charlotte will have May and Okefor coming back, and with the addition of Adam Morrison, they are going to contend for the playoffs. Orlando is also improving, Dwight Howard is my darkhorse for MVP this season, and I actually believe JJ Redick is going to be a solid rookie contributor. The Hawks will struggle to win 30 games. They have good young talent (Marvin, Shelden, ZaZa) a soon to be allstar (JSmith) and a superstar (Joe Johnson) but they lack chemistry.
A player like Brevin Knight could have done great things for the Hawks roster. I’m disappointed that we couldn’t sign a veteran like him this off season.

Asto Joe I couldn’t disagree with you anymore. Speedy Claxton is a liability on defense, he was in Philly, he was in Golden State, he was in San Antonio he was in Oklahoma City, and he will be in Atlanta. He is a quick player with the ability to score, but he is not a defender. Ty Lue is 10 times the defensive player that Speedy is. That’s why I’m so surprised that BK would sign him. Just take a step back and ask yourself, with the current young roster of players on this team, wouldn’t you rather have a point guard like Derek Fisher or, Brevin Knight for the same price? Don’t you think they would work better in this offense.

By honest_abe

August 11, 2006 09:51 AM | Link to this

” Ty Lue is 10 times the defensive player that Speedy is.”

huh? what? HUH? WHAT? OKAYYYYYYY!

FRAME THIS EVERYONE THIS IS THE CRACKHEAD STATEMENT OF THE YEAR!!!

By Astro Joe

August 11, 2006 09:58 AM | Link to this

Dale, I would definitely rather have Fisher, unfortunately, his contract is absolutely obscene, so he is not an option. Knight would have been a nice pick-up, but I think Speedy has more (I’m about to use a word I truly hate) upside. But I would have been fine with Knight in lieu of Speedy. If Speedy wants to stay on the floor for Woody, he will be forced to defend the PG position. He certainly has the quickness to do so. If he doesn’t, he will quickly go back to his historical “back-up” duties. Its good to have depth and options.

By Ken Strickland

August 11, 2006 11:12 AM | Link to this

DALE, I agree with a lot of what you said, especially in your 1st paragraph. I agree with your insightful analysis on how certain players can provide team improvement beyond stats. Based on the fact that the Hawks are a young, athletic, fast, energetic team, wouldn’t Wright possibly be a better fit. You mentioned the Hawks might have problems with team chemistry. Wouldn’t that be a problem for any team with new additions to their roster? You mentioned Charlotte and Orlando as two teams that’s improved the talent on their roster. Having more talented roster doesn’t necessarily translate into a better team. SEE THE KNICKS, PHILLY or PORTLAND FOR ILLUSTRATIVE PURPOSES. Isn’t this sort of a reflection of what you said in your 1st paragraph? REESE, good to hear from you. You made a good point when you said Pat Riley won the title last yr with that system. However, you overlooked one very crucial element in your statement. IT TOOK RILEY SEVERAL YRS TO PUT THAT CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM TOGETHER. Pat Riley has a positive track record for developing good teams, but he is lousy at developing young players. That’s why he prefers veteran players and veteran teams. You made mentioned of what the Hawks needed to make the playoffs, the answer to that is TIME AND PATIENCE. They can make the playoffs annually with their current roster, but they will need to improve that roster to compete for a championship.

By mountain_jim

August 11, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

Supposedly Bernie said major announcement on Monday (the day Tellem is official).

Between that and Carlisle’s level of deal certaintly, I guess it will be Indiana for Al with terms close to what’s been said here all along.

I was hoping to shake a Bynum, Camby, or Mihm loose, as any pick in this deal next year will likely not be high enough to draft a top-tier center to develop and I don’t see where the free agent class then will offer one either.

Any new hints to offer Sekou?

By ConyersDawg

August 11, 2006 11:14 AM | Link to this

Sekou, I heard Bernie Mullin this morning on 680 the fan say to tune in Monday on another big deal for the hawks. Any hints on who the hawks are going to sign next?

By G-Money

August 11, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

Obviously Dale you really haven’t played a sport or been around teams that grow and gel over a year or two. The idea that these guys don’t and won’t have chemsitry is bizarre. Chemistry is something that is developed ergo the Miami Heat. No one thought that they had a chance with several seemingly mis-matched parts. It is amazing what a coach who understands not just the game but the players of the game can do to BUILD a team (which translates into chemistry). While the players that the Hawks have with the exception of JJ are not marquee names, no one can say that they aren’t solid players. It is now time to build the team. That duty rests squarely on the shoulders of, not BK, but Woodson. Speedy with Lue as backup, ZaZa with Lorenzen as back up, Marvin with Sheldon, JJ with Salim and JSmoove with JChill as back up. Certainly young and relatively inexperienced, but in the right environment and playing against a lot of teams, this version of the Hawks has the potential to be as good as the Wizards were this past season. Any pickups from here on out will be just gravy. It’s now about what Woodie does or doesn’t do with the talent.

By billy

August 11, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

This from hawksquawk.com:

I heard the whole Breakfast with Bernie segment…Bernie said that the Al Harrington deal is already done…it is the same deal that was worked out before Al fired his other agent…he said look Monday for the official announcement of the trade since that is when Art Tellum officially becomes Al’s agent. The Lorenzen Wright signing should be officially announced shortly therafter…Bernie said he’s excited about the competition at each position…he likes that we are at least two deep at each position…something we didn’t have last year…Shelden is not the definite starter yet…he has to prove it in training camp. Hope this helps.

By Frank Slade

August 11, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

Thanks Billy, can anyone else at all confirm this ?

By Frank Slade

August 11, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Ok I take that as a no ?

By mavid

August 11, 2006 12:08 PM | Link to this

* Yall all should read this *

its from dime-mag and shows what our boy JJ has been doing with team USA

* Joe Johnson Pros – Simply put, JJ has earned his spot on this squad. When Team USA pulled away for good against Puerto Rico, Johnson was an integral factor. When they needed a rally against Brazil, JJ was one of the guys making things happen. The fact that Joe played a team-high 27 minutes against Brazil tells you all you need to know. Cons – The only thing that could possibly keep Johnson off this roster is the amount of star power he’s up against. Other guys who play JJ’s positions (D-Wade, Arenas, Paul, etc.) have bigger names, which could sway the vote. *

So basically, JJ has been one of the top players on the team (something i have noticed when i have watched the USA games… dude is doing everything… rebounding, distributing, playing D, etc).

* Sekou, I’d love a little write-up about what JJ is doing with Team USA *

By Al Harrington

August 11, 2006 01:24 PM | Link to this

I’m leaving on a Jet plane, don’t know when I’ll be back again

By Indy's ' 08 Lottery Protected Pick and 2 mil cash

August 11, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Ready or not ATL here I come !

By Dee

August 11, 2006 01:44 PM | Link to this

From what I’ve seen in the USA games is that JJ is out shining both Chris Paul & Arenas,& D-Wade…well he hasnt really showed me anything worth shouting about either..But JJ has played great defense which wins games..all D-wade & C. Paul & any others in his position, may score fancy & all but what good is that when the other team is scoring just as much..the first game they played with the top starters were scoring baskets for baskets but the minute the second string w/ JJ came on, the P. Rico couldnt do anything..we went into the half w/ double-digits up..so if u ask me, JJ may not have the “star-power” name but who cares when he is on the floor longer than any other in his position. He very well deserves it!! I look forward to seeing that same play, JJ, this new season!!

By Clyde

August 11, 2006 02:58 PM | Link to this

I would say something but Dale is saying everything for me. Oh well……..

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Astro Joe

August 11, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Clyde, if you are saying that you and Dale are redundant, then…

FIRE CLYDE OR DALE

By Ken Strickland

August 11, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

G-MONEY, your analysis was right on point. It is exactly those issues that make this such a scary team. There is little doubt that there will be improvement, both player and team wise, but the question is, to what extent. Marvin must have the attitude, impact and energy he had during summer league play. JSmith must show the same level of improvement above and beyond what he demonstrated last yr after the Allstar game. Zaza should/must be more agressive on DEF, which should be easier since we now have adequate backup. We know that JJ will most likely bring more of what he brought last yr, but with less effort. The only real issue affecting chemistry will be how long it will take Speedy to mesh and pull everything together. And with Lue on board, that shouldn’t be a long drawn out process. Under horrible circumstances last yr this team got off to a very slow start and was anything but competitive by the Allstar break. But, after the break an almost complete transformation of this team took place and we were very competitive. This yr we should start the season the way we ended it last yr. Then, by the Allstar break, the issues of chemistry and familiarity should help us elevate our game for a potential playoff run. Of course, how we start will dictate where we finish, just like last yr.

By dale

August 11, 2006 05:12 PM | Link to this

Does anybody know what kind of contract Jamal Tinsley currently has? I would be willing to throw in Ty Lue with the Al Harrington deal, to get Jamal Tinsley added to the trade. Speedy could fill the “microwave” role of the bench. Tinsley is more of a traditional pass first poinnt guard (when he’s healthy).

By ILL-logical

August 11, 2006 05:53 PM | Link to this

I guess when your previous years’s results were a grand total of 26 wins, 30-40 wins look good.I am just not patient enough to wait another year for playoff potential;and there is no way that the roster that is currently being created can get anywhere near the playoffs. When the management issues are resolved and the focus can return to building a champoinship caliber team then and only then can meaningful discussions take place about the teams future direction. At this point and time we are all just treading water.

By A Thinking Fan

August 11, 2006 06:14 PM | Link to this

This blog is the real deal for chuckles - THANKS GUYS for the laughs and real Bb/sports insights…

By mountain_jim

August 11, 2006 06:35 PM | Link to this

So assuming the rumoured Indy deal is true -

My suggestion for Sekou (or other ajc column writers)

How about getting BK and a representative of ownership interviewed upon the trade completion and ask the following:

Why did you not trade Al last season when he could not have been worth any less than now?

How much did ownership issues and financial requirements (beyond the court ordered trade requirements) drag down the Hawks competitive position in this matter and prevent getting any actual usable next season value for Al instead of some (likely) way-in-the-future protected draft pick and some cash?

In other words, how much of this upcoming pityful trade result is BK’s fault and how much of it is our ownership’s fault?

By infamouskrs

August 11, 2006 07:55 PM | Link to this

excellent take mountain jim……you’re echoin’ what i’m thinking about the handing over of a top-tier talent that will only distance our selves FURTHER away from an —>EASTERN conference opponent<—! We’re filling a MAJOR NEED for the Pacers.

I guess Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird have got to be hanging out in a locker room in Conseco Fieldhouse sharing a fat cuban an laughing about how they STOLE a team captain (20-10 player with major value)from the NEW PACER CHRISTMAS LIST member, Mr. Knight !

I live here in INDY, trust me…it’s hard watching the late night news hearing the local sports guy talkin’ about how “You’d be SURPRISED on what the Pacers got for AL”……it’s real old around here!

please add to Billy’s resume……..

not lookin’ good……….

By AP Source

August 11, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

Ok to update whoever is interested.
What I have this evening…a friend close to me who I trust has provided the following.

Al to Indy is honestly 100% complete, you can bank on it.

All parties have agreed, it’s no longer in the discussion phase. It’s official.

The details have not been released, but as I stated before it will be a 2008 1st rd Pick, that part is clear.

That’s all for now.

By ray

August 12, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this

Ill-logical, of course we’re treading water, do we have a choice? The season hasn’t started yet, so we’re reduced to the current discussions. So were you talking to us or yourself? Join in man, we can always use another to stir some stuff up, right? LOL…

Dale, I would’ve liked to have seen Brevin Knight here too, but I think that Charlotte knows what they’ve got in a player like him. They wouldn’t even be close to thinking about letting him go until Raymond Felton proves he is the man for this team. He’s got nice game, but still learning right now. They used him in the backcourt with Knight a lot last year. Bickerstaff knows better. Come to think of it, even if Felton became the starting pg, Knight makes a very quick, energetic, effective veteran off the bench. Naw, they wouldn’t let him loose unless they smelled some really good bait. On the subject of Lue, you’re confusing me a bit. How can you say Lue is ten times the defender that Claxton is? And then turn right around and even hint at the idea of trading Lue with Harrington to get Jamal Tinsley? So trade the back-up pg who you think is better than the likely starting pg for a guy who barely made it through half a season last year and wasn’t good enough to retain the starting job? Man, Anthony Johnson started more games than Tinsley even played last year. I’m not saying he stinks, but does seem to be a bit brittle, no? I realize Claxton is not a good shooter, but Tinsley is even worse. And he’s not a better defender in my opinion. He certainly isn’t a better free throw shooter, something you need a ball-handler to be, especially at the end of games. Tinsley shoots less than 64% from the charity stripe. Okay, now that just stinks. Anyhow, I don’t see how he’s better than what we got, but that’s just my opinion. I was kinda okay with getting him before we knew Claxton was coming, but that was for the sake of having a veteran pg and in the hopes of him not getting injured. Glad we got Claxton. Of course, if he screws up royally you can say “I told you so.” But I won’t listen..LOL

By Jim

August 12, 2006 04:43 PM | Link to this

I’ve been an avid reader of this blog for 2 years now, but this is my 1st post. It’s definitely the premier place to discuss Hawks hoops. Anyway, to everyone who thinks Billy “settled” by only getting a 1st rounder and cash. Every single one of the rumored players coming in an Al deal has a bloated contract. To a man , not one of them would or should be taken on our roster. This includes Troy Murphy, Tinsley, Jeff Foster, Adonal Foyle, Earl Watson, Nene (who would have required $60 mil to ever play a game here). Quite literally we would not take a single one of those players even if we had to give nothing in return. Having those contracts on the books is an albatross. Getting a 1st rounder and cash to sign Lorenzen while still remaining $10 mil under the cap is a coup. Any deal that could have been done last year would not have achieved that. We’ll all be thrilled we don’t have terrible contracts on the books when the inevitible improvement comes and we have the chance to take on a real star in the near future.

By NumbaOneFan

August 12, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

Excellent post Jim, definetely a point overlooked by many and realized by only a few. As I have stated before this team is not a glamour star studded squad but it has the makings of a solid serviceable roster. We have a good mix of rookies 2nd and 3rd year players along with some skilled veterans. The level of talent and experience is there and with good coaching, some luck on no key injuries and some games to build chemistry in the future looks semi bright for a 38 to 44 win season. Not many agree but we will just have to wait and see.

By Ken Strickland

August 12, 2006 06:50 PM | Link to this

JIM & NUMBAONEFAN, you are not alone in your thinking. I agree with not signing any of these players. Those that do haven’t taken into account that we will need that CAP space to resign our young core of players when they become(R)FA. There are simply too many fans that can’t make the distinction between what is best for the team, and what is best for them. By insisting Indy take Edwards’ contract, we end up signing Wright, a much better player, for almost nothing.

By Ryan

August 12, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

Dale and like minded people seem to think we are running a fantasy - leauge team rather than a real life team. Teams that are BOUGHT in one or two years, LAST one or two years. The bulls: How long did they spend with Jordan hovering around the forty somethign win mark before winning their CHampionships? How long is Miami going to last?

By NumbaOneFan

August 12, 2006 07:49 PM | Link to this

Ken, thanks for agreeing. It is easy for some to think that throwing money at a bad situation or taking on someone elses bad contract for a player who has a marquee name and adds a certain degree of credibility is the way to solve things. I persoanlly do not and, even though I am not a BK fan or agree with most of his decissions or thinking, I have to recognize what an enviable position this franchise is regarding cap and short term contracts for current players. As you and a few of us has mentioned repeatedly…. we gotta have the cap room to re-sign, Smove, Chill, and Marvin. With the moves we’ve made and the cap room we have we can afford to take on the right contracts and players that might make us better. This is really year 3 of the process in rebuilding of what was once was a wretched collection of overpaid players with no upside and a mangement team that couldn’t help tripping over it’s own dick in Pete Babcock and the other loonies. This franchise began to stink when they traded Nique for weak A$$ ,No Game, No Heart Danny Manning. Just as the hiring of one Lenny Wilkens was just another nail in the coffin. S****y draft choices, poor trades, and the overall stupidity and short sightedness of the old regime was the hawks undoing. I have been a fan since the Joe Caldwell, Walt Bellamy and Lou Hudson days and for once in a very long time think we actually have some decent pieces in place and have something called “CAP ROOM”. We as fans have to recognize the positives and the strides that this farnchise has made. Yes the current ownership situation is disturbing and distracting, but we cannot overlook the fact that the train is on the track and it is slowly building speed. I am just annoyed by the trade and signing scenarios of self proclaimed experts on this blog. Damm…. venting sure feels good.

By Jim

August 12, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

Will the Hawks improve this year ??? Hmm. Would you rather have Harrington, John Edwards , and Dante Smith ?? or Shelden, Speedy, and Lorenzen Wright ?? Thats a no brainer. Seems a 5-7 game improvement right there. Would you rather have rookie/tentative Marvin or aggressive taking it to the hoop Marvin that improved evry month of the season. Would we like 2nd year youngsters Smith and Childress or the more battle tested/entering their prime versions we have now(Smoove was benched and lost in December and played All Star caliber ball post All star. Childress shot 48% in November and 55% the rest of the year with considerably more agressive play). Are those differences worth 5 more games? I think so. Furthermore, the Hawks have improving depth in guys like Stoudamire and Ivey, who can’t help but improve. Does ANYONE think Joe Johson will decline ??? NO ONE in their right mind believes that. Most NBA teams are not constructed with that many players who are on the upswing, with almost no one in decline. We can expect improvement ranging from 8-16 games depending on who rapidly this team gels. If/when that happens the Hawks will be in position to package a young talented player ( we have many), possibly with picks, to whatever underacheiving team has a superstar they don’t want to pay. Or we can wait for free agency. Thats what cap space and young improving players can do. A pretty good place to be in my book ….

By NumbaOneFan

August 12, 2006 07:54 PM | Link to this

P.S. How many of you bloggers on here can say they ever saw the hawks play their home games when they played at the old Georgia Tech Colliseum ????

By NumbaOneFan

August 12, 2006 07:58 PM | Link to this

You are right on the money with your assesment Jim…Finally starting to think there some intelligent life forms out there!

By G Money

August 12, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

Jim, Ken, NumbaOneFan, you guys get it. All teams start off with potential; it’s just a matter of how much. The Hawks have the potential to be extremely exciting to watch and consistently win. The good thing about BK is that while he might not know the diamonds in the rough, he has selected some solid players who will work hard, work together, and work to improve on an ongoing basis. No need for fat contracts of older solid players swallowing up all the cash when everyone on this blog knows that the guys that we have are young and approaching (within a year or two) nearly every person mentioned as a potential Hawk acquisitions minus KG, AI or someone of that stature.

While I’m not a stat guy, I’d bet you that if you analyzed it, the most successful teams in the league are moving away from the traditional Eastern Conference style of ball with traditional positions to fill. These teams crafted after the more Euro-style of BB have been exciting to watch. And with the not so subtle changes in how the game is being called are going to continue to be the more consistently successful teams in this league. The Hawks (nearly on the cheap) are being created to be a consistent team with interchangeable parts — perhaps a blend of traditional and international styles — a team suited for this conference but with a modified style that attracts fans and minimally increases TV ratings. Given the money spent by ownership on this team, consistently good is about as much as one can expect versus consistently great. That’s a whole nother level and a lot bigger pay roll.

By NumbaOneFan

August 12, 2006 09:39 PM | Link to this

Thanks G Money, Nice to know there are other bloggers out here that recognize that it takes time to rebuild a wretched team. Other teams fat contracts will hurt more in the long run with cap inflexibility issues. The NBA is changing and as you say going with the more european type of game which relies on athletic ability, basketball fundamentals and players playing more than one position. Again I like what I see.

By Ken Strickland

August 12, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

NUMBAONEFAN, GMONEY, RYAN, JIM, now this is the type of positive exchange I enjoy. Let me add something else to this perspective. Whenever someone decides to completely rebuild an existing structure, they must 1st tear it down. BK spent the 04/05 season blowing up the roster and only had 2 vets & 4 rookies remaining on the final roster. Therefore, last yr was the 1st time BK & Woody attempted to put together a full roster of core players. So, in reality, this will be only the 2nd yr of actually rebuilding the team. Despite what anyone might think about BK & Woody, as a team, we have come a long way in a very short time.

By ray

August 12, 2006 09:55 PM | Link to this

I’m gonna stay up tonight and watch our fellas play Lithuania. This will be a true test of what we’re made of. I know this is home-team biased thinking, but when the team trims down to 12, I say JJ stays and Arenas goes. Nothing at all against Arenas, but I think JJ is more versatile and will be more of a help in the end. Then again, they might let Kirk Hinrich go. But I don’t think that’s wise…he can bring the ball up, play D, and shoot the three. We don’t have a lot of the truer 3-ballers on the team. Thoughts, anyone?

By ray

August 12, 2006 09:57 PM | Link to this

Ken, and the rest of you fellas, loving the positivity. However, and I hate to be the one to say it: won’t last too very long. The harbingers of doom shall return. LOL!!!

By mykhalc

August 12, 2006 10:59 PM | Link to this

ray, LMAO!!! you’re right they are lurkin’!!LOL

jim, real nice first post!!!

By mykhalc

August 12, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

SS, nice article too!! and thanks for helpin’ bring some calm to the ‘SHELDON WILL START’ thing!! not gonna happen at the start of the year…if at all this season (which i personally don’t think will happen). liked your take on SPEEDY too!!

By ray

August 13, 2006 12:41 AM | Link to this

Hey, Mykhalc, what can you do besides laugh at it sometimes? Glad I’m not the only one with a sense of humor here. Not that I’m saying no one else has one, just don’t see it much….well, except for that nutcase Honest Abe (much love to ya, you crazy-a**!)

By NumbaOneFan

August 13, 2006 09:40 AM | Link to this

KEN,GMONEY, RYAN, JIM, I guess we have started something positive on this blog. I am finally seeing that there is a growing number of us here that share the same ideas and philosophies. I am sure that the buzzards will be circling shortly looking to resurrect the negative energies we have all become so used to. Let’s face it… not everyone that posts here is a real student or a true fan of the game. I see quite a few posts from bloggers that thing that urban playground basketball translates into what it takes to win in the NBA. It’s not about the individual player that gets his, nor about the big name player with the bad contract who is set for life and already got his. It is about: chemistry, dedication, playing within the system and accepting your role. The NBA is full of players that have the playground mentality and feel they are head and shoulders above the rest due to their skill and reputation. I could go on here for hours breaking down players, their contracts and what they have accomplished however thats not possible. The Hawks are not going to win the east this year and probably not next year either. What they have accomplished is building a serviceable roster that won’t handcuff the team payroll or cap in the future. Lets keep the positive up and see what the season brings with the pieces we have coming back from last year and the new pieces we have added.

By ray

August 13, 2006 07:13 PM | Link to this

Did anybody besides me see the game against Lithuania last night/this morning? What a defensive effort. And then there was the gratuitous Chris Paul-to-Lebron James play on the fast break. Naaastyyyy! Our guys put a lot of pressure on the ball. JJ showed out for us too. The commentators talked very highly of his mid-range game, as well they should. He was shakin’ those defenders like wheat in the wind. It ended up being pretty much a blow-out with the U.S.A. intensity level lasting just about the entire game. By the way, anybody worried about the outside shooting shouldn’t be…they were on fire from beyond the arc last night and repeatedly beat the zone with penetration, especially Carmelo Anthony and Dwayne Wade.