Hawks

By Harry Hawk

May 22, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

There’s no way that the Hawks will be able to sign Cassell. I am going to assume that E.T. (as I call him) is going to want to do another reclamation project. You have to believe that the man wants another ring and I will be shocked if he doesn’t sign with a title contender next year.

As for the AI business, I don’t care how many tatts the guy has, how much he “holds down” young players or how selfish he is with the ball. The fact is that he is an all-time great player. Even so, he doesn’t fit with the Hawks. The fact that he’s in his 30s and so talented would require him to be the leader of the team. I just don’t think that would work out well. Is Iverson’s talent and ability worth Harrington, this year’s first-rounder and Childress? Probably, but the Hawks would be better off if Joe Johnson scored 25 a game and dropped an assist or two off his stats by adding a point guard who can set the offense and get the team running.

By Harry Hawk

May 22, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

That should read…”I am going to assume that E.T. (as I call him) is NOT going to want to do another reclamation project.”

Ugh.

By Alec

May 22, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I really do believe that the Hawks have a supporting cast than Philly. A.I and JJ in the backcourt would give Atlanta two of the best penetrators in the NBA, which should explode the games of others around them.

I’d love to have Cassell too, but he wants to play for a proven winner, we aren’t proven….YET!

By Tyger

May 22, 2006 04:32 PM | Link to this

I love AIs game and if we could get him for Harrington, Donta/Ivey + 2nd pick, I’d pull the trigger. Just dont touch our core and that includes Marvin and Childress.

I’d rather keep our cap space and work free agency and draft and build for the long haul. We’ve seen too much of the knee jerk reaction, prompted by articles like these, during the Babcock era. See Big Dog, Theo, SAR.

By Matt

May 22, 2006 04:47 PM | Link to this

I’ve been back and forth over the guy, but I think Iverson could be the Answer here, too. I think his supporting cast is horrible. He hasn’t had another back court mate that could draw defense like Joe Johnson EVER. If we throw them both back there as a pair of shooting / point guards, I think they could stir up a ton of trouble in the East.

-matt Hotlanta Hawks Blog

By mountain_jim

May 22, 2006 04:57 PM | Link to this

All I know is that this is really going to be an interesting offseason for Billy and his Hawks.

I have the same issues with A.I. everyone else in the blogs have, but the main reason I have to be against this is his HUGE cap-eating salary level. If his cap-charge and salary were halved, I think I would be for the move, as long as first draft pick and nucleus retained, but I know that’s not how it works in the NBA…

mj

By Zack

May 22, 2006 05:44 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

Look,the hawks cant just keep back on getting a supperstar like A.I. They should trade away some of thier many forwords. They cant just save thier cap room forever. Plus Billy Knight already has almost all Atlanta hating him. If A.I. works out and would send the Hawks to the playoffs, Billy Knight would HAVE alot more people like him.

By Jay

May 22, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Sekou, for being the voice of reason on the ajc staff. Dont smoke whatever Schultz is puffing on.

By Opposite Day?

May 22, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

I went to 12 Hawks games this year (they won 4). I swear on everything I own that if they acquire the cancer and franchise-killer that is Allen Iverson, I won’t attend a single game next season or until he’s gone. Don’t they remember Isaiah Rider?

By Ed W.

May 22, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

I agree with you that they shouldn’t trade for A.I. I saved my rant for Schultz’s blog.

I also agree that Cassell would be a good addition. I think the Hawks could have a chance at getting him if they are willing to pay a few million more per year than anyone else. While he might not be crazy about a rebuilding project, he already has rings from his days in Houston and has complained a lot in teh past about being underpaid. He could just go for the money.

By Samuel

May 22, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

Cuz,

I gotta disagree with you here. The reason Philly did not make the playoffs is definately not because of AI. They gave away one of their better inside players in Marc Jackson, Dalembert “sucked” all season and Kyle “freekin” Korver wants everybody to work their a* off and he just stand out on the 3pt line and jack up threes. Iguodala is a good player but no JJ. Sure they had Webber but come on he’s playing on one leg.

AI is a winner and will do whatever it takes to win. Check his minutes per game. He scores because he has too. You guys forget that he singlehandedly took the 6ers to the Finals a few years ago and has not lost a step. Put he and JJ in the same back court and: TELL ME WHO HAS A BETTER BACKCOURT THAN THE HAWKS!!!!!!! Detriot Maybe but that’s about it. I don’t think you can pass up an opportunity like that.

Yes, we do have some “good” young talent but no “great” players yet. Allen Iverson is a Hall of Famer. How many Hall of Famers have worn a Hawks uniform. We aint got “that” much to lose.

I can’t believe you guys are so casually talking about actually putting bodies in Phillips Arena. The place is practically a ghost town in case you haven’t noticed. What’s wrong with a few sellout crowds and a playoff run every now and then.

By honest abe

May 22, 2006 07:20 PM | Link to this

when i first heard the AI rumors…. i was very cynical….so many questions…he shoots too much, he can be immature, he has taken a pounding over the years by constantly driving into the lane…..BUT then i did something dangerous and i sat there and thought about it…

I thought about the best year of AI’s career…the 2001 season when he made it to the NBA championship….the key to that team was let AI play the 2 and have a guy that can handle the point, yet have enough size to guard the other teams shooting guard….they had eric snow in his prime…they also had aaron mckie to help relive ball handling duties….mckie and snow “were” very good ball handlers and they both played tenacious defense….

jj is eric snow times 1000 he can guard the opposing teams two and still run the point…he would work very nicely alongside AI…you have josh smith who would benefit from open looks due to the fact that both guys have the ability to get in the lane and find the open man….the key as we all know is to find a big…need a presence in the middle….that 01 76ers team started with ratliff and ended with mt mutombo…

finally the only way AI would work with this young nucleaus is for the hawks to open up their game plan…and play an up and down style of basketball….a starting five of AI, JJ, Jsmith(jsmoove sounds stupid), and marvin plus one veteran vet that can block would be a scary team to face…they could be the suns of the east….with the improvement in Jsmith’s shot…all four of those guys can space the floor and shoot the ball…i think we could create mismatches on just about any team….so if we’re able to sign a quality big…LETS GO GET AI!!!!!!!!!!!!

By honest abe

May 22, 2006 07:26 PM | Link to this

one more thing…AI is one of the best players i have seen during my short lifetime….say what you want about his immaturity..his lifestyle(which there hasn’t been much to talk about lately), he is a gamer…he goes out there in his skinny 6’1 frame and lays it all on the line every night…guy shoots more free throws than kobe or vince…..i think that kind of dedication and fearlessness will only help this young hawks team

By The Flash

May 22, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

Don’t see it, as in not at all. Take away the first 16 games, add a year of experience, I’d continue building through the draft and picking up key pieces that would really fit with the quality individuals that are here. I think A.I. is a complete warrier and terrific and entertaining talent, and in his own way a quality guy. However, his world both on and off the court seems so uniquely his own that … , well, I just don’t see it.

By Ryder

May 22, 2006 08:29 PM | Link to this

Honest abe, you provide very good reasons about bringing in the AI, the most convincing argument yet. However, I don’t see anyone out there who can come here and play the interior defense needed to assist Iverson. That’s the only way this will be an option. Perhaps Knight knows something we don’t and can get a hidden gem out there.

If Atlanta is serious about obtaining Iverson, then they should make a deal that doesn’t hinder the growth process of this team. Trade Al Harrington, Salim Stoudamire and their first round pick to Philly for Iverson. Also, make sure that Philly is willing to pick up part of his contract, because that will eat up the salary cap if Atlanta has to take the remaining years.

Personally I don’t think they should do it, this team is well on the way to being a perennial playoff contender in the next couple of years (I think next year Washington, Indiana, and Chicago will falter, giving Orlando and Atlanta a chance to compete). This summer will be huge as to where this team goes in the future.

By bdlucas

May 22, 2006 08:53 PM | Link to this

It’s funny how the A I subject always stirs up a lot of controversy when it comes to Hawk fans, but in todays NBA, can you pass on sure things? Scoring, leadership, endless energy, the willingness and desire to take big shots, the talent to make those shots, great passing, the ability to take over a game, a huge draw at the box office, more televised games on more networks. Like him, love him, hate him, just decide if you can pass on all of this for another “good” player, or worse, another bad gamble.

By doc

May 22, 2006 09:07 PM | Link to this

i agree with sam and honest, with some reservations. those can be easily answered by the coaching staff who has experience with him or a lot of inside info. they are connected with lb through his brother who was at philly along with woody during the year they got to the finals primarily on ai’s guts. there have been no more incidents like “practice” and he has avoided further embarasing situations. he is the one guy who can make the hawks a 46 to 50 game winner and the only proven point guard out there that can run a team once they get to the playoffs, ala sam a.t. cassell who incidentally wasnt in the playofs last year alongside kg.

ai would be able to do what nash did to phoenix and blow them up 25 wins from one season to the next. along with the issue of is he coachable?, the rub is what will he cost besides salary. if it is more than al and salim then i say no, nash didnt cost that much to the suns which made his acquisition that much more significant. if you have to give up too much then i say no, otherwise bring him on. if not go get speedy and either roy or williams and coach them up. beginning to think williams may be serious about his conditioning, like deron williams was last year, who after the college season was over went to training and lost 20 pounds before the nba workous to increase his speed and quickness.

atf, i still dont see your criticism of nash as mvp. who on that team before this year was in a starting lineup with significant minutes, much less came close to being an all star besides marion? i mean if you were a gm and could take your pick of guys you would want in your starting line up i doubt you would give any player much of a look besides marion until you were down to your 7th or 8th spots. diaw, raja or barbosa just wouldnt do it without him around to run the suns style of offense that probably very few points could run as well as him either. the suns may not be in the finals after tonight but what they got from so little manpower this year is astounding. diaw has also lost a little of his luster under the spotlights as a lot of 2 footers and layups just arent going down. eltom brand is a lot different than kwayme and odum.

By bdlucas

May 22, 2006 09:32 PM | Link to this

Wait a minute. Did Opposite Day compare Allen Iverson to Isaiah Rider?!! In what way, and in what alternate universe?

By Kappy

May 23, 2006 12:17 AM | Link to this

Ok, ive sat back and thought about awhile. I initially didnt think that we should bring him in. Then, I thought about it. And while i see all the points you pro-AI guys make, I still think we shouldnt trade for him. We can continue to build in the draft and pick up an experienced big in free agency. AI is a high risk/high reward situation. But if it doesnt work, youve set this franchise back for years. I say No.

—Draft Roy or Williams. —Trade AL for something(draftpick/vet C/PG) —Draft big in 2nd round —and get Big in free agency

By Ron Mexico

May 23, 2006 12:24 AM | Link to this

Trading for AI would definitely make the Hawks a playoff team — our supporting cast is much better defensively (and really at least as good offensively) than what AI had in Philly. But would trading for AI make us a championship contender? I think when you blow up a team and build it from the ground up like Billy is doing you have to look at trying to become a legit championship contender in the future, not just another playoff team. If getting AI puts us at that level some time soon then that’s great. But to me, being a team like Chicago or Washington, who barely make the playoffs every year and don’t have a lot of cap space or high draft picks and have no chance of winning a title with their current roster, is arguably worse than being in Atlanta’s situation, where at least we have plenty of room for improvement both through internal growth and through free agency and the draft. AI would put us in the playoffs, but I don’t think adding him would make us a championship contender, and he would take up too much cap space to be able to add other pieces like the interior defender we need so badly.

By Bob in Sf

May 23, 2006 02:32 AM | Link to this

I remember when the Hawks won the championship after they got Moses Malone and Reggie Theus! They were unstoppable! It was amazing! Wait…they didn’t win a championship by getting ball hogging superstars on the downside of their careers and plugging them into a lineup of good young players? Don’t repeat history! AI is 30 yr. old little guy with a lot of mileage who has had a great career but there is no way he will last much longer playing the way he does. With him the Hawks might get to the playoffs for maybe one or two years, lose in the first round and then be stuck with his monster contract. Philly would love for the Hawks to take him and his money off of their hands while throwing in younger players and draft picks. Then again Billy K. would make that deal. Joe turned out to be a decent pick-up but I still don’t believe he was worth what they gave up pick wise…

By Malone

May 23, 2006 02:49 AM | Link to this

NO A.I.!!

Give BK a couple more years and see how we grow and progress. I think Smith and Childress will be a deadly duo to our opponents sooner, rather than later. Remember, Salim was out for awhile and Zaza had no real backup. We’re going to be fine.

By SaintSparky

May 23, 2006 04:01 AM | Link to this

Are we all talking about the same Hawks here ? There are so many comments here as if the Hawks are just a step away from the playoffs. Let’s be honest… as long as we have that logjam at F we will never make the playoffs ! So we need to move one of them, and it looks like Harrington doesn’t want to resign anyway, so why not use him to get one of the best guards in the NBA ? He isn’t the coveted leader everybody wants, but that’s where we have other players like JJ or Josh Smith. A starting lineup of AI, JJ, Josh Smith, Marvin and let’s say Przybilla would be fun to watch ! But hey, according to some of you we should just sit back and watch our Hawks stay mediocre for another five years !!!

By A Thinking Fan

May 23, 2006 05:39 AM | Link to this

Compare Lebron and Nash DOC

Organizational Management, Recent Payoff History, Coaches Know How, Experience & Track Record, Supporting Cast, Record in last 5 years,

Lebron = MVP of the NBA!

Closing thought - Nash is a beneficiary of an outstanding team concept/system. Lebron is the concept/system for Cleveland right now. Give him the ball and let him create everything…

By Samuel

May 23, 2006 06:29 AM | Link to this

All I know is that LeBron is on his way down to the “ole fishing hole” right now. Nash is in the Western Conf Finals.

What a game last night between the Mavs and the Spurs. Ando, you boy Dirk stepped up big time. When he took that one to the rack and got the “And 1”, he had “that look”. Props to the Mavs for killing that Monkey.

By A Thinking Fan

May 23, 2006 06:49 AM | Link to this

Sam my Man LJ lead Cleveland to the 2nd. round & to game 7 in his 3rd yr. in the league, 1st. yr. in the payoffs. They use to say the same thing about MJ. Remember when Larry B. was being annointed the so-called greatest B-ball player of all time? Along came MJ. The rest is history…

By A Thinking Fan

May 23, 2006 06:59 AM | Link to this

Also SM has been the MVP for Phx during the first 2 rounds!

By doc

May 23, 2006 07:10 AM | Link to this

atf, the little man is still standing. lebron is still growing as a player and next year is going to be his year but to be honest he may have more pieces than you are willing to credit him for than is on the suns. if hughes is well the whole season then it might have been different along with some potential all stars. as far as nash being a system guy he was no slouch in the mavs system and ths suns were in the same category as the hawks when nash arrived out of the playoffs and sub 30 wins looking like they had no where to go. he put 30 wins in their pocket that year with amare and marion the what second best turn around in victories in one year in any franchise history. he then duplicated the feat. the difference with nash is he isnt a one hit wonder in one year nor with one team showing and confirming his value that you continue to ignore or down play.

the hawks get him with these guys and i get season tickets, he is ai without the baggage and more because he doesnt want to score 30 a game unless it is game 7. didnt you and many say he doesnt do it in close games or game sevens. hope you are collecting some data because he is blowing your smarts or opinions with results, big numbers in game sevens and what one or two throwdowns from the outside to win games? keep your opinion, respect it, but dont understand it and doesnt seem as well thought out as most of your remarks, like to negate him supports a different agenda. yes?

By Cody

May 23, 2006 07:10 AM | Link to this

Why don’the Hawks consider a sign and trade with the Bulls, Al Harrington for Ben Gordon and maybe a 2nd round pick. I would also consider trading the first round pick for a “younger” center who offers solid defense, like a Nene and Demvers 1st round pick. This is the year the Hawks have to make solid roster additions, I think they traded next years #1 for Joe Johnson.

By A Thinking Fan

May 23, 2006 07:17 AM | Link to this

AJC Article 3. LeBron James, 2003, Cleveland — Three years into his reign, James is the top vote getter on the All-NBA team and an MVP candidate (he finished second to Steve Nash). More importantly, James transformed a forgotten city into must-stop destination on the NBA’s star parade. At 21, he’s being compared legitimately to the game’s greats. And at 6 feet 8, 250 pounds, he has a chance to create a whole new category of player — he’s currently the only member.

By A Thinking Fan

May 23, 2006 07:25 AM | Link to this

Steve Kerr Article Shawn Marion played a brilliant game – shooting 5-of-9 from three-point range in scoring a team-high 30 points – and that really threw a wrench into the Clippers’ plans. When Marion hits long-range shots, Phoenix is able to spread the floor like no team in the league, making the Suns practically impossible to defend. That’s when Nash is able to penetrate and either find an open lane for a layup, or – when the defense reacts – dish the ball to an open teammate. This is a system fellas.

By A Thinking Fan

May 23, 2006 07:33 AM | Link to this

Wanted: James gang help (It happened just the way this article predicted – no help for LJ in game 7)

By Steve Kerr, Yahoo! Sports May 20, 2006 Not many people outside of Cleveland would have predicted there would actually be a Game 7 between the Cleveland Cavaliers and the Detroit Pistons. Come to think of it, I doubt many fans in Cleveland would have made such a brash prognostication. But the Cavaliers have figured out a formula to beat the Pistons, and they’ll get one more shot at the Eastern Conference champions in Auburn Hills on Sunday afternoon. Cleveland will try to continue its great defensive efforts – particularly on Chauncey Billups and Rasheed Wallace – and keep the game at a slow pace. If LeBron James can get enough help on offense from a couple of teammates, the Cavaliers can pull off the shocker. After all, the last four games have all been close, and at this point in a series, there are no adjustments to be made. There’s no reason Cleveland can’t keep it close, and if that’s the case late in the game, the Cavs do have the best player on the floor. James is good enough to will them to victory. But the key will be an unexpected contribution from someone – a few three-pointers from Damon Jones, perhaps, or a great scoring game by Flip Murray. If LeBron doesn’t get enough help, Detroit can ride the energy of the home crowd, build momentum throughout the game and cruise to victory. There’s so much emotion involved in Game 7s, and the visiting team must withstand the onslaught.

By A Thinking Fan

May 23, 2006 07:40 AM | Link to this

I’m not the only one who is/was critical of Nash.

Steve Kerr article Steve Nash – The two-time MVP took a lot of heat for his subpar play earlier in the series, but with a few days rest, he came through with a masterful performance. Nash hit 11 of 16 shots, including four of five threes, and scored 29 points to lead the Suns into the Western Conference finals. Phoenix was in control from the start thanks to a hot start by Nash, who passed the ball beautifully and got everyone involved. Many of his 11 assists led to open three-pointers for the Suns, who made 15 of them on the night.

I rested my case. Got that from Flash…

By A Thinking Fan

May 23, 2006 08:11 AM | Link to this

NBA Today By The Associated Press

Miami at Detroit (8 p.m. EDT). The Pistons and Heat meet in the Eastern Conference finals for the second consecutive season. Detroit rallied from a 3-2 deficit to win the series in seven games last season. STARS

Monday _ Dirk Nowitzki, Mavericks, had a playoff-high 37 points and 15 rebounds as Dallas outlasted San Antonio 119-111 in overtime to win Game 7 and advance to the Western Conference finals.

_ Steve Nash, Suns, had 29 points and 11 assists, leading Phoenix to a 127-107 Game 7 victory over the Clippers and a berth in the Western Conference finals.

STRONG IN DEFEAT Tim Duncan scored a playoff-high 41 points and added 15 rebounds, but San Antonio lost Game 7 of the Western Conference semifinals to Dallas, 119-111 in overtime on Monday night. … Elton Brand had 36 points and nine rebounds, but the Clippers were beaten in Game 7 of the Western Conference semifinals, 127-107 by Phoenix.

SWINGS Steve Nash, 2-for-18 on 3s in the previous five games, went 4-for-5 in Game 7 Monday night as Phoenix defeated the Los Angeles Clippers 127-107 to reach the Western Conference finals. The Suns shot 60 percent overall and made 15-of-27 3-pointers.

By Astro Joe

May 23, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

I can’t see Sam Cassell coming here. Cassell has stated his desire to be a coach. I predict that he will either resign with the Clips or a creative team (like Cleveland, Memphis or Orlando) will offer him a chance to be a playing assistant coach so that he can start the process of learning coaching duties. With Larry Drew as the lead assistant, I’m guessing the Hawks view Drew as the Yoda of PGs (doesn’t he have some kind of PG DVD). So why use a roster slot on a PG mentor when you already have one?

Let’s see if we can get a top 3 pick tonight in the draft lottery!

By The Flash

May 23, 2006 10:36 AM | Link to this

Pete Carril: “if you think pass only after exploring all other options it is not a pass.” A.I. is not right for this group. JJ needs to modify offensive style.

By honest abe

May 23, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

abe kwon: “if one of the top five players in the NBA over the last 10 years becomes available GET HIM!”

By Johnny Bravo

May 23, 2006 11:04 AM | Link to this

So let me get this right..you don’t want a Hall of Famer and a former MVP who avg 33points and nearly 8 assists per game, but you want Sam Cassell? You really need to stick to beat writing and stop making sports opinions.

By GTGD

May 23, 2006 11:09 AM | Link to this

I agree, AI is trouble we don’t need. Yes, he’s great, and yes, he’s 31, but he’s also selfish, arrogant, unfriendly, and has the body of a 41-year-old. He’s had more injuries and spats with coaches than any player in nba history. Leave him alone- go get Sam, Jarrett Jack, Andre Miller, or any number of other veteran PGs out there that are “team-first” and distributors, not “me-first” scorers.

By David

May 23, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Getting Allen Iverson right now would transform the Hawks from doormats of the NBA to World Champions? I think that the Hawks would immediately win the NBA Championship if Allen Iverson was immediately brought into this team. Iverson has led the league in scoring a bunch of times and will continue to do so until he retires. Iverson will continue making All-Star teams perenially until he retires. Allen Iverson will continue winning MVP trophies until he retires. Allen Iverson, unless he brought to the Hawks, will make the city of brotherly love, much better until he retires. Allen Iverson will make the Hall-Of-Fame on the first ballot, shortly after he retires. Acquiring ALLEN IVERSON IS THE BIGGEST NO-BRAINER IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNIVERSE, SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME!!! If Allen Iverson wants to play for the Atlanta Hawks, I think the Hawks should throw everything into the deal including the kitchen sink to bring him abroad. Give Allen Iverson the key to the city of Atlanta, and the basketball Gods, including the fans of Atlanta will shortly be treated to their first NBA World Championship!!!

By HB Ando

May 23, 2006 12:04 PM | Link to this

Hey guys! Been busy the last few days, so I thought I’d get caught up today. Does anybody know whether this is a legitimate discussion? SS mentioned that, as far as he knew, Chad Ford may have picked up the AI to Atlanta rumor from our blog a few weeks ago.

OK, let’s say it is legit. I think the decision is as simple as the organization validating what their true goals are. If they truly aspire to compete for championships, you don’t bring AI to Atlanta. He crushes cap space, dominates the ball and impedes the development of young players. On the other hand, if ownership is less concerned with striving for a title, and would be satisfied competing for the playoffs, providing an exciting product and selling tickets, to fans who would come in droves to watch AI, then go ahead and acquire him. It really is as simple of a discussion as that. The Hawks I saw at the end of last season weren’t having much trouble scoring, and Smith and Williams will only get better this next season. Defense was the issue. Iverson can’t rebound or block shots. He is a tremendously quick defender on the perimeter, but he was able to take a lot of chances getting out of position, going for steals, because he had Webber and Dalembert in the lane if his man got by him. Here, we’ve seen what will be waiting for an opposing players’ dribble penetration: lay up or a dunk.

So the question is: What do these Hawks want to be when they grow up? Winners or just fun to watch.

On another issue, people continue to make suggestions about trading Harrington and our pick to get something or other. We cannot sign Al, and thus trade him, until AFTER the draft, starting on July 1st. So these ideas are practically impossible. We could trade the rights to the player we draft, after we re-sign Al (if he’s inclined to participate in a sign and trade, which he may or may not be). It would be too risky to pick a player with the intent of trading him (in other words, picking a player desired by the team you are trading with) and looking to sign and trade Harrington with that pick. What if Harrington, or the other team, backs out after free agent signings begin? Anyway, just wanted to clear that up since so many folks seem to be confused on that issue.

Looking forward to the draft lottery tonight. When are we setting up our draft competition?

By honest abe

May 23, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

“scratches my full head of hair”

hmmmmm……..ok so all i’ve been hearing from someone is how marcus williams isn’t a fit or deserving of the 4th pick because he might be a defensive liability…

talk all you want about AI having dalembert behind him, but please don’t mention chris webber..the guy hasn’t played defense in 5 years…and AI is not a defensive liability….why did so many players get layups and dunks…we didn’t have a big to take up space or block shots yes…but we also had horrible on the ball defense from our point guards which (he who shall not be named) has stated so eloquently on many different occasions…. AI is still one of the better on the ball defenders in the league…slice it however you want…AI and JJ is a better defensive combination than any guard we can draft or sign this year…plus that combination would create more opportunities for our other players than any other guard the hawks could either sign or draft this year..!

like i mentioned before this talk is all moot if we don’t get a big!

By Basketball Princess

May 23, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

Looks like the Princess will have to set up the logistics. How do we want to do it, and I can set up a speadsheet.

Ok! I was wrong about something. Dwight never leaving Orlando. I thinks I bit someones head off (Sam?) saying that he wouldn’t leave because he was happy…..Well I’ll just say this DH2 would put on a Hawks Jersey in a heart beat.Can’t really say now what i heard do to the national attetion SS intoduced us to, so I’ll say this. Lets hope Orlando does what they need to do to prevent that from ever happening.

David Atlanta would never be world champs, as it is the USA Team, which is a combination of Individual NBA Team players that would bring that title. Kobe was the leading scorer in the league this year, and failed to bring LA a championship. So I miss your point on him being the leading scorer “many times” could bring in a championship.

So is Glenn Robinson Done?

By Astro Joe

May 23, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

Steven A. Smith suggests in his most recent column that Joe Johnson may be available this off-season. Unless he is assuming that Belkin is taking over (and plans to trade away JJ for obvious, non-basketball related reasons), then I think dude is pulling crap out of his rear. This is why I do not react to published rumors by columnists, because there is no accountability for them when they make crap up. The ONLY way one would consider trading away a 25-26 year old player, who plays every game, plays within the team concept, averages 20+ points and 8+ assists during sevral months of last season and is also the teams best perimeter defender, is if you are determined to blow-up the entire franchise. So once again, unless Smith’s comments are borne out of some consideration for Belkin, I think that this is a perfect example of why BK refuses to speak to most media members. Because some of them are more interested in making news than reporting news. Asserting that JJ is available is, quite frankly, preposterous.

P.S. This is also the resaon I do not understand why people go off on BK based on some of the nonsense they read. If you were a GM, how much talking would YOU be doing to columnists who either paint you as incompetent or report that you will trade away one of the 10 best 25 and younger players in the league?

By honest abe

May 23, 2006 12:52 PM | Link to this

world champs….nba, nfl, and major league baseball are the top organizations in respect to their sport, around the world….so when you win the super bowl, world series or an nba championship ….you are “world champions”

By honest abe

May 23, 2006 12:54 PM | Link to this

stephen a smith = most annoying person on tv

By Astro Joe

May 23, 2006 02:07 PM | Link to this

Sekou, Brad Daugherty made your list before Glenn Robinson? WOW! Big Brad was hurt, but those Cleveland teams were very good, they just couldn’t get over the Bulls. Big Dawg was a fairly pedestrian player in his day. Sure, he socred points, but I’m not sure he was any btter than the very forgettable Jamal Mashburn. Brad made his teammates better, Robinson made his teammates hate him. Daugherty may be among the worse #1 picks mostly because of injury (like Kenyon Martin), but Robinson was bad because he was a one-dimensional player who won nothing when he was the “Big Dog”.

By Samuel

May 23, 2006 02:16 PM | Link to this

I don’t really know if it is a rumor or not about AI. Probably is but I still say that turning down a top 10 player in the league, if available, is stupid.

I posed a question in one of my post : Who in the NBA would have a better backcourt than AI and JJ? Let’s hear it, you so-called experts.

Ando, you love to talk but often times it gets old my friend. How does AI impeade anybody’s development. Does LeBron, does Kobe, did MJ, did Magic? They all “dominated” the ball. You talk about competing for Championships and we can’t even break 30 wins. Let’s at least crawl first. Who cares about this Lottery. Their all on the same level anyways.

Name me a better all around guard(ballhandling, quickness, scoring, defense, toughness) than AI? Sure I would love to have other point guards if that’s all we can get but given the choice, I’d take AI over any point guard in the league, Nash and Sam included.

You guys talk about these players like you really know them personally. Calling a guy selfish, arrogant, please. Guys this is “show business”. People do what get’s them paid. You think AI would have all these commercials if he was just your average Tom. Doc said it right a couple of posts back. Let’s put your lives and jobs up for public scrutiny and see what happens. Don’t be such cowards by continuing to throw stones at freekin entertainers for God’s sake.

From what I have read AI does a great deal for his community and is “striving” to be a good father and husband. That’s all that counts. All this other “crap” don’t amount to “a hill of beans” as my daddy would say.

By stunna2

May 23, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

The only reason i say we shouldnt bring in AI is because of his salary. It would kill all the cap space we have. If not for that id be all for the trade. I really dont get some people on here. You dont want AI but you want Jarret Jack? I think that says enough.

By David

May 23, 2006 02:52 PM | Link to this

AI is the best player in the association period!!!! If you don’t believe me, just ask former 76er great Julius Irving who is the best player in the league and he’ll tell you emphatically it is AI. AI is undoubtedly the best all-around player in basketball today. AI hasn’t been getting his just due and props over the past few years—but he is the most electrifying player to come along in our generation in a long time! I don’t know of anybody in the NBA who could beat AI in a one-on-one game of basketball. There is noone who can guard AI straight up. AI can light it up on anyone, regardless of who is guarding him—whether they are 4’7” tall or whether they are 13’9” tall. It doesn’t matter. If the person guarding AI is 13’9” tall, AI would simply climb the up and down the ladder and shoot over this monster and the outcome would still be the same—30 points; 10 assists and 11 rebounds!!! AI is “available immediately” and he is also the silent assassin on the court at all times. I hope that the Hawks can acquire AI before the 76ers withdraw the generous offer that they currently have on the table.

By St. Bernard

May 23, 2006 03:27 PM | Link to this

I think I finally figured it out. David wants Phillips all to himself,along with the few other folks who prefer their basketball to be entertainment, rather than support a team in winning championships.

Here are the pg’s who immediately pop into my mind that I would rather have than AI: Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Chauncey Billups,Andre Miller,Cassell, Hinrich, Livingston,

By Astro Joe

May 23, 2006 03:31 PM | Link to this

Samuel, my concern with AI is fairly simple, I’m not convinced that the Hawks will provide him a better supporting cast then what he has had in Philly and that has not lead to much if any success. I’m not sure that I would bring in any $20M player who is on the downside of their career if it doesn’t virtually guarantee this team some first round playoff success. I know Webber is not the same player but even in his current state he is a far superior interior player than any that the Hawks have today. Iguadala is as talented as any of our young wing players. Dalembert is the defensive presence that we dream about as Hawks fans. If that team struggled to enter the playoffs over the past 2 years (and of course missed it altogether this year), why pay $60M over 3 years for marginal team success? No, I don’t want to keep winning 20 games, but I also don’t want to be maxed out on the salary cap and win 38 games either. Personally, I think there are better ways to spend $60M over the next 3 years.

By St. Bernard

May 23, 2006 03:36 PM | Link to this

Bibby,Chris Paul,Tony Parker,Jason Terry, Derron Williams, Jameer Nelson,Brevin Knight, Raymond Felton, Gary Peyton,Smush Parker, Jack, Telfair….MARCUS WILLIAMS.

It’s probably of note that I would take the backup pg of the Bobcats over A.I.

The goal is to build a team…not a circus. And in two years, AI will be gone and we’ll be rebuilding again.

By honest abe

May 23, 2006 03:42 PM | Link to this

joe i respect your opinions but i think your wrong…webber might have a better offensive game than any big that we had…but he took way too many jumpshots..when your power forwards games consists of 80% jump shots near the free throw line you have a problem, thats not including the fact he doesn’t play a lick of defense…dalambert is an overrated defender..he can block shots…but zaza had some of his biggest games going straight at him…not my idea of a great defensive presence…he picks up way to many silly fouls he is a bad version of dampier…korver can shoot but only in some games…half the time he was building a house….and he cant’ dribble, rebound, pass or defend…iguoadala was the only other good player on that team and they still almost made the playoffs…they had no bench and their coach has only failed everywhere he’s been…

By A Thinking Fan

May 23, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

Good Basketball Is Back

By BRIAN MAHONEY AP Basketball Writer

Having LeBron James in his first postseason certainly helped. His last game of the season, Cleveland’s Game 7 loss at Detroit on Sunday, received an overnight rating that was nearly 30 percent higher than the comparable game last year.

By The Flash

May 23, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

Sam I Am: MJ, except when the Zen Master had his ear, unquestionably impeded the progress of everyone he played with, young or old. Kobe, even with the Zen Master, does.

So does Alan. He can catch it, have a clear angle for a pass to a big in an excellent position, and not even think about letting it go. He creates so much on his own, and his run outs are so fast, that there really is a shut out of other players.

I doubt JJ would want to play with him. Maybe that’s the reason for SAS’s speculation. If A.I. comes, JJ might demand out. Who knows? Anyway, it’s a far better guess than Astro’s. Astro Man, just when I get to thinking that maybe there really is some there there, you go off into outer space. Now I know what the Astro, is for; your new kickname, “Pluto.” It could be worse, think of the next furtherest planet. Only teasing my man, your analysis in general was TERRIFIC!!!

By Mel

May 23, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

JJ came here to be “the Man”. If Iverson comes JJ will be a complimentary piece all over again. AI dominates the ball and is not a good fit for this team. i thoguht we were rebuilding.

By Astro Joe

May 23, 2006 04:53 PM | Link to this

Abe, you’re right, C-Webb is almost exclusively a jump-shooter. But he still averaged 10 boards and almost a blocked shot a game despite having a 3-inch vertical jump. I’m still not convinced that AI would have any more success with the Hawks than he had with Philly. And I think the price is just much too high for 35-38 wins and getting the 12th pick in the next few drafts. Flash, better to be Pluto than Goofy (hey, I made a funny).

By honest abe

May 23, 2006 06:11 PM | Link to this

i’ll give you the ten boards but that still doesn’t offset the fact that he gets unhappy unless he gets a certain amount of touches…watch any of his games last year, and he forced quite a few shots just because AI’s domination of the ball….i have to believe that those two large ego’s must have messed up any kind of chemistry that team had….besides AI is not a pg! out of that starting five he was the only capable ball handler…

as for JJ i know he wanted to leave phoenix to be the “man” however i have to believe his biggest objective is to win ballgames (and make $$) he got his money and now i can only assume he wants to win…you have to understand…he could still produce at the same rate if not higher than this year playing along someone like AI…how many open three’s do you think playing next to someone like that would translate into?

we can continue to develop talent and hope that one day it will propel us into championship contenders…but i have a bad feeling that would only turn us into an eastern version of the grizzlies…and how depressing would that be??? making the playoffs every year knowing you have absolutely no chance to advance??? you need superstars to get to that next level…(Duncan, Parker, Ginobli), (B wallace, R wallace, Billups, Hamilton), (Shaq, Kobe), (AI, JJ, J-smith, M-williams)now i dont’ care who you replace AI with it can be KG, anyone but it needs to be a superstar!!!! we got cap space lets go out and make something happen!!!!!!!!!

By The Flash

May 23, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

Hey, I finally figured it out, the only way this Iverson thing makes any sense is as a poison pill. They sign Iverson and Belkin sues for peace. Not a bad strategy, if you are willing to blow up the team’s upside in order to insure you keep it.

By Samuel

May 23, 2006 06:48 PM | Link to this

Abe,

Look at what we are debating here guy. One guy says that MJ and Kobe “impeded” progress of some future perenial allstars. I don’t quite recall who you are refering to. Could you enlighten me Flash. Who are these players who would have been better had they not been held back by MJ.

Yea Kobe really impeded Luke Walton, Chris Mihm and don’t even mention Mr. Big Shot “SMUSH” and Kwame. Wow had it not been for Kobe they may have gone all the way.

Bernard, you’re joking right!

By Samuel

May 23, 2006 06:56 PM | Link to this

Ask any player or any coach on any team in the NBA if they would want to have AI on their team. You guys are a joke!

By The Flash

May 23, 2006 07:21 PM | Link to this

Sam I Am: before the Zen Master, everybody but what’s his name. Read Phil’s book, Hoop Dreams. On the Zards, Hamilton, Stackhouse, Kwame, Dixon, and most everybody else on the team. The guys on the Zards for the most part hated playing with him because they were constrained all the time to look for MJ first and there was hell to pay if they missed.

By Mel

May 23, 2006 07:52 PM | Link to this

the 5th pick!!!!!!!!!!

By Mel

May 23, 2006 08:01 PM | Link to this

What are the rules for our Mocks ?

By Melvin

May 23, 2006 08:04 PM | Link to this

I think it would be safe to draft Marcus Williams at the spot… yep i’m back and ready to talk draft…

By Mel

May 23, 2006 08:15 PM | Link to this

Toronto-Rudy Gay Chicago- LaMarcus Aldridge Charlotte- Adam Morrison Portland-Tyrus Thomas Atlanta-Brandon Roy

my top 5 for now until the rules are set up and stuff

By A Thinking Fan

May 23, 2006 08:34 PM | Link to this

Flash Calm down and tell me who else has six rings?

By Astro Joe

May 23, 2006 08:36 PM | Link to this

Geez, Samuel. How many rings does AI have, that every player and coach wants him on their team? How many endorsement deals has he provided for his teammates by helping them win titles? I LOVE AI. He’s the best little man I’ve ever seen play, including Isiah Thomas and one of the 5 toughest. But to say this guy in the 06-07 season is universally desired with his $60M contract? WOW! When you look at his field goal attempts, free throw attempts, assist and turnovers from this past season, there is one overwhelming fact, dude LIVES with the ball. And thus far, the results have only netted one exceptional season for his team. $60M? No, thanks. I’d rather cheer him on from afar.

By Astro Joe

May 23, 2006 08:51 PM | Link to this

Ando, remind me what Levenson said again. Was it that the Belkin divorce has not affected personnel decisions or was it that the massive lost of money being shouldered by one less rich partner had nothing to do with personnel decisions. I don’t remember. Did you see the Tucker article? An excerpt:

Bruce Levenson, in an affidavit filed in a Maryland court, says the teams have lost $20 million since August and will lose another $20 million in the “coming months.” Levenson says the uncertainty created by estranged part-owner Steve Belkin’s lawsuit against the other owners has made it difficult to obtain “adequate” financing or to bring in additional investors to help cover the losses, “subjecting us to extraordinary financial pressures.”

Levenson’s affidavit says the $20 million in losses since August have been funded by five members of the ownership group: Levenson, Ed Peskowitz, Michael Gearon Jr., Rutherford Seydel and Todd Foreman. The affidavit says Levenson, Peskowitz and Gearon will be required to fund the projected upcoming loss of another $20 million.

Under terms of a deal struck between Belkin and the other owners last summer, Belkin has not had to help fund the Hawks’ and Thrashers’ losses since August. The four-page affidavit is in part a response to suggestions in an earlier court filing by Belkin that the other owners are benefiting from a delay in resolving the protracted dispute.

Contacted by the Journal-Constitution, Levenson would not discuss his affidavit. He declined comment when asked how the financial situation described in the affidavit will affect the teams’ operations, and he also was mum when asked how long he and his partners will be willing to sustain the current level of losses.

“I’m not able to talk about it,” he said.

Sorry, I couldn’t resist. Can AI bring in about $70M over 3 years? If so, look for a deal to be made quick, fast and in a hurry!

By doc

May 23, 2006 09:28 PM | Link to this

aj, cant say that any of that information surprises me. my point early on, i mean really way back, was this organization couldnt afford it without belkin and that was the ONLY reason that belkin was invited to the party. they didnt know each other before the hawks with only the washington guys knowing him peripherally hence inviting him to the party. 2 plus 1 means that if one was removed it couldnt add up to 3 to shoulder the financial responsibility. it just doesnt make sense to assume anything else folks, no matter what the spin unless there are other revenues to be extracted which didnt come from the revenue from the gate for hawks games.

i dont have the financial insights of what parking, ticket and other revenue streams would be in dollars but if ai means there is hope for the income stream to change significantly by getting fans in the seats to stay solvent, then ai will be here. SIMPLE stuff folks, dont make it more difficult than it is, same as running your household. also, when you are going under you take reasonable risks.

to carry further,with the loss of al and the drop in the salary of jj it still allows the hawks to grab ai without spending more than last year in salary. remember the advantage of jj that was forgotten or ignored was jj costs only 10 mil next year. i dont know what al cost last year but if it is close to 10 mil then that about covers it. ultimately, i hope the coaches are part of the decision to know if the personalities will fit.

flash, you have been quiet about the spirit’s dc crew beyond the reference to belkin’s predicament with the spirit but havent given as much of the specifics about them though i assume you might have come across them in the dc area. give us the scoop, with specifics not generalities. did you introduce the two?

By St. Bernard

May 23, 2006 09:29 PM | Link to this

MARCUS WILLIAMS

by the way, as far as the team concept goes, I would take any of those guys over AI. I am serious.

By Shawn B

May 23, 2006 09:45 PM | Link to this

Can someone help me out here? I thought the Lakers owed the Hawks a first round pick as long as it wasn’t in the lottery. Did they lose the pick because the Lakers didn’t make the playoffs last year? And also, I swear, if the Hawks take another forward with their first pick this year, instead of taking the best point guard available, Billy Knight has to be fired immediatly!!!!!

By Astro Joe

May 23, 2006 09:50 PM | Link to this

Okay, Ando several weeks ago suggested a trade with Chicago (that I completely disagreed with). But let me offer up another version. Hawks trade rights to 5th pick, Lue and Al for the rights to 2nd pick, 16th pick and Duhon. It could look like Lue, Al and Roy to Chicago for Aldridge, Mardy Collins and Duhon. They get vets and an NBA-ready, tall SG to pair nicely with Gordon and Hinrich. We get a big man in Aldridge and 2 team-oriented PGs in Collins and Duhon. I have never thought that Al by himself would bring a tremendous amount of talent, but maybe in a package, we could get several needed pieces. Of course, all of this would need to take place after 7/1 when free agency starts. BK runs the risk of being “stuck” with Roy, but that would not be such an awful thing. Thoughts?

By doc

May 23, 2006 09:58 PM | Link to this

i’ve liked roy quite a while as he caught my eye as the pac season began winding down, only wish the huskies had gone further to see more of him. in about ten days there is a big event to show stuff for all the draftees in orlando. it will be interesting who goes and competes there and then who gets the workouts with the hawks.

By Numba1Fan

May 23, 2006 10:51 PM | Link to this

I have been out of town for a few days and get back to find out there are rumors Allan Iverson could be dealt to the Hawks?????…. Pleae tell me this is a nightmare. Why would any young team with a solid nucleus and a lottery pick want to bring in AI??? This guy is nothing but trouble. Has anyone forgotten the gun charges and the domestic violence charges. How about someone in a car owned by AI arrested for drugs. I swear if this deal is done… it will drmatically affect the chemistry, and development of the existing players. Stick with the original plan by drafting a quality PG or acquiring one via free agency, then draft someone physical to play the center position and give ZaZa some much needed help inside. AI is a cancer that will undoubtedly destroy this teams progress.

By HB Ando

May 23, 2006 11:00 PM | Link to this

Not gonna waiver guys. AI is a terrific individual talent. Leaves it all on the floor every night. I would go so far as to say that he’s the best little man in the history of the NBA. But we won’t win with him. He didn’t win in Philly. Zero championships. And we’d be getting the older version. If you don’t think all the minutes and all the contact has taken its toll on the man, you never played the game. I am not saying don’t bring him here. I said bring him here if your goal is ticket sales and not a championship.

Joe, you bring up packaging that pick with Al. Again, I thought that we can’t do any transaction with Al Harrington until after July 1st, AFTER the draft. We can trade the rights to the player we pick, but can’t make a deal with the pick, and Harrington, until free agency signings get underway in July.

I think this team has rightfully committed to Joe Johnson being the primary scorer. At 25, he’s heading towards his prime, versus an Iverson, who’s passed his and likely to start breaking down, relative to his optimal seasons. This team needs defense in the paint, and decision making at the point. I don’t see how Iverson’s “decision” to shoot every time he has the ball is going to make this a better team.

Dalembert was leading the league in blocked shots when he suffered a severe ankle sprain after the all-star break. Suggesting that his presence in the post wasn’t of benefit to the defensive strategy of the guard play in Philly is just plain ignorant.

We are picking fifth. That means that Thomas and Aldridge are definitely out. Bernie Bickerstaff just got back from scouting Bargnani in Europe and said he’s a small forward right now. Lot’s of talent, but no back to the basket game. We’ve got 2 tremendously talented small forwards in Smith and Williams. So that seems to rule him out as well. If we can’t pick up a big man, that points to a trade down or Marcus Williams or Roy. This is not the optimal scenario for the Hawks. Will be very interesting to see what that genius, Billy Knight, will do.

By HB Ando

May 23, 2006 11:06 PM | Link to this

Samuel, with all due respect, you were convinced that the combination of Larry Brown and a group of individual talents would be a recipe for immediate success in New York. So you’ll excuse me for suggesting that your definitive position that AI, in Atlanta, would be a good thing (remind me again how the Knicks’ season ended up). I believe that you have mentioned in the past that statistics have limited value when it comes to winning. I can think of no greater example of your position than the case of Allen Iverson.

And BTW, how you like my boy Dirk?

By St. Bernard

May 23, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

How about going after New Orleans picks? We could pick up Mardy Collins and Patrick O’Bryant if O’Bryant fell a pick or two.

By St. Bernard

May 23, 2006 11:21 PM | Link to this

Here’s my picks for the top five: 1. Toronto - Aldridge 2. Bulls - Tyrus Thomas 3. Bobcats - Bargnani 4. Portland - Morrison 5. Atlanta - Williams

By Samuel

May 23, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this

Ando, You are right. Me along with a Hall of Fame Coach. So I don’t mind that kind of company.

Yea, I already said you boy Dirk stepped up. I’m glad to see it. Props to he, Avery and the Mavs. Your still wrong on AI. I really don’t expect Atlanta to want a player like AI anyways. It’s fine with me. I’d just as soon watch him on TV anyways.

By Mel

May 24, 2006 12:00 AM | Link to this

St. Bernard, Aldridge is good but they drafted Araujo, Bosh, and Villanueva I dont think they would go with Aldridge unless they plan to trade his rights

By Melvin

May 24, 2006 12:18 AM | Link to this

1.Raptors-Alridge 2.Bulls-Thomas 3.Bobcats-Roy 4.Trailblazers-Bargnani 5.Hawks-M.Williams 6.Timberwolves-Gay 7.Celtics-Splitter 8.Rockets-Morrison 9.Warriors-S.Williams 10.Supersonics-Collins 11.Magic-Brewer 12.Hornets-O’bryant 13.76ers-Carney 14.Jazz-Redick

By Adam

May 24, 2006 01:32 AM | Link to this

If Bargnani is still available then Knight is gonna take him; at least that’s what I keep reading. I also read that he thinks taking Williams might be too much of a reach. Of course, last year conventional wisdom had Paul as being ‘a reach’ at #1 or #2. Actually, just to reflect on those (dark) days one last time, I can’t think of who angered me more in the aftermath - Billy Knight, for bucking to convention; or most of the national media, for agreeing with Williams and then turning on the Hawks when Paul exploded out of the gate. Whatever, water under the bridge.

I bet the Hawks go with a shooting guard. I don’t know why, but I can just imagine the conversations here that will ensue. It will almost be like… last year.

By billy

May 24, 2006 02:46 AM | Link to this

BRANDON ROY

Unless Aldridge or Thomas are there at #5 - and it is possible - then we have to take Roy.

He would pair up perfectly with JJ. They would both average more than 5 assists and about the same in rebounds. Both strong defenders. JJ is the better shooter, Roy the better slasher.

With those two up top and Marvin/JSmith down low, you’d just need a big, shot-blocking center.

PICK: ROY!!

By doc

May 24, 2006 07:14 AM | Link to this

to those saying trade down, it seems like the hawks managemant chose to not add anything this season to assure a lower draft pick. now even though it is five why would they trade down? obviously, they must have seen five or six players that would make them happy to have deferred last season as they made no attempt to upgrade the team even after the definite loss of one of their big men before the season started.

honest, you know monday you flipped like a pancake on the ai thing. are you done on both sides?

By honest abe

May 24, 2006 08:53 AM | Link to this

slightly burnt…but i thought i made it clear that although at first i thought the hawks had no need for AI, i think the hawks need a bonafide superstar…not only to bring in the fans, and some excitement to the city, but the team needs another person capable of scoring in the 4th….

this hawks ownership is depressing….are the hawks the worst franchise in sports at the moment???

one last thing…all i keep hearing is roy, roy, roy! how many of you guys actually watched this guy play?? i watch my share of college bball but i can’t say i watched a single washington game this past year….are you guys basing your opinions soley on these “draft experts” … if so i’m scccccccccccurred.. heh

By Astro Joe

May 24, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

Doctor, I still think that there are at least $20M other reasons why no deals were done to improve the team last year. Trading for the Hornets 2 selections would actually be more cost effective than keeping the 5th pick. The 2 slotted salaries are only a little bit higher than the slotted 5th salry and if you assume that we would need to sign a vet to fill the slot of the extra draft pick, then it is a clear cost savings. Ando, the draft is at the end of June and free agency begins July 1, so while Al could not be traded in a draft day trasnaction, the drafted players could be dealt with Al a week later. I think we need to try to acquire 2 first round selections by hook or crook. We need role players, not scoring stars. This draft is deep with role players at the PG and PF positions. ESPN’s mock is showing the Nets walking away with Lowry and a Kenyon Martin-like PF. I’ll take that toward the bottom of the draft. I say we trade down, take advantage of the draft’s depth and focus on developing JJ, Marvin and Smith as our 1-2-3 punch with role players surrounding them.

By Clyde

May 24, 2006 10:18 AM | Link to this

Here’s my mock draft.

1.Toronto-Bargnani 2.Chicago-Morrison 3.Charlotte-Tyrus Thomas 4.Portland-Aldridge 5.Atlanta-Brandon Roy or M.Williams

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By Adam

May 24, 2006 11:19 AM | Link to this

I think Knight is gonna go with whomever he deems to be best available still on the board at #5. I somehow doubt there will be any trades. That said, with Chicago sitting pretty with two picks and looking to get older, not younger, there is a chance they’ll be looking to deal. Of course, they’ll probably be looking more for a Garnett than a Harrington - but you never know. I bet the Hawks will take Roy or Gay, but that’s based more on others’ projections than anything concrete from my end.

Here’s to hoping the ownership spat works out!

By doc

May 24, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

honest, just playin as you know, you also know that i agreed with you on the ai thing. the comment was a little late but there was a hang up on the net that night, someone must have been purged on the topic of a.i. no doubt about it ai does polarize folks good and bad and in this town with some of the hate i see or hear he probably wouldnt pass that litmus test. just dont understand the lack of compasssion and capacity for forgiveness and letting bygones be bygones especially on this level. i mean it is just sports.

aj, you cant control who you get by going down the ladder, it becomes more of a crap shoot that way. if you do that then you really are going for the best available and may miss the mark completely in what has been determined a weak, iffy draft. my point was they could have improved this team last year by not spending much more last season and maybe even less if they had dealt al earlier for need and possibly improved the wins to say the lower middle of the pack putting the selection in the same territory. remember you were just as frustrated by the lack of action as i was starting december through the trade deadline. since they didnt, my thought is they chose to stick to the draft and free agency as a way to improve or they made the decision they couldnt afford anything. this league isnt that bad that someone might have been dealt or available especially for this team. maybe, it really was there was no one that could improve this roster but those were the options. bk has already made the point that we dont know anything.

really, this draft doesnt look that different for ready made impact players, just as last year. only chris paul made a huge difference from the get go. mid-rounders last year werent heard of and may never be heard of as many were projects. remember the lousy hawks draft choices were in the mid range round and up for a long time. id prefer to have an idea of what i could get so i stick at five if i think i like five guys, if i like 20 then i trade down. if i like three only then i work a trade somehow to get a player for next year and draft choice in 2007. sounds simple and it really is. aj can you list 20 -25 sure fire players or five or three that can make it in the league in the draft this year? you are the gm now, tell me the sure fire 25 guys and i might agree with the idea of trading down but otherwise you are just blowing smoke rings.

atf, since we are talking lists, i never heard from you as to who you would pick off the suns to be one of your top seven guys on a team you could make from the get go, besides marion to complement nash. you just threw up some quotes from someone else. you are the thinker, put it on paper, be acountable, if you are going to continue to detract on someone else’s performance. if labron does it two years in a row then give him the award BUT he could be a tease like k.g. and spiral down after the ascendant burst.

like i said nash has done it two years in a row with less talent around him, gave his best performances in game sevenS, delivered the knock out blow in one or two of the close ones and to boot has now done it with more than one team and coach. and you still cant give the cred, what do you thing about that sam?

to continue, as far as marion comment, most said that he got shut down by odum in the first round, i mean odum! he was extremely quiet as diaw and barbaro took over there to complement nash not marion. come on atf, give it up man, finals two year in a row with less talent. i know, now it will be he cant win the big one. labron is sitting along with kobe, k.g., a.i. and labron along with the dominant forward for the clips against a team with no frontcourt presence. its dirk against his good buddy nash. should be fun and entertaining.

By crs

May 24, 2006 11:33 AM | Link to this

Will be interesting to see how this draft plays out but I think any of the following Thomas, Roy, or the UConn PG help the Hawks pretty quick. I personally was not impressed with Aldridge, he seems very soft and certainly not a guy that will mix it up. Thomas is certainly not afraid to mix it up. Not sold on Gay either. Second round is just as important in my mind to pick up a big body that if nothing else can give minutes and rebound. I think the Hawks have a pretty good group of scorers if AH stays. Phoenix shows you don’t have to be big if you can play some D and get up and down the floor. I miss the days when we ran hard with the likes of Spud, Nique, Doc, etc.

By honest abe

May 24, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

crs “Phoenix shows you don’t have to be big if you can play some D and get up and down the floor”

i can’t remember the last time phoenix showed anybody how to play d …lol

By Basketball Princess

May 24, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

Honest, sometimes you are just so lame. Anything to try to stuff what I say in your mouth. Have the gaul to address me.

An American league can be considered the world champ if it plays another country. So like our USA basketball team is going to Japan to play in the FIBA World Championships in August. We will be playing other countries that have basketball teams. DUH!

If we win that Championship then we are considered the WORLD CHAMPS.

Abe we are in a new era. Get out of the past. Back in the 60’s the Superbowl was called the AFL-NFL World Championships, but they played the Canadian League during that time. Canada is it’s own Country. Now it’s not considered a World Championship game because the AFL merged with the NFL, and they no loger play the canadian leauge.

Same as in Baseball. It is a series that is played between the United States and Canada. Again Canada is another country!

Anyway, I was talking to my boy out in China and whille I was watching the draft for some reason he already knew the pick his team had before it was anounced to the public. Asking him how did he know this he just says, “I play in the NBA”. What does that supposed to mean. Can any of you specialist elaborate? Honest?

This person also says very confidently that BK will not be picking up another 6’9 guy. In asking him how he knows this all he says, “cuz I know. I know billy knight well” ??????????

By Basketball Princess

May 24, 2006 11:48 AM | Link to this

I’m currently making a spread sheet of everybody’s mock draft predictions thus far. I will go back to when we decided to do this and use the scoring scenario that everyone had agreed on at the time.

All mock predictions will be final as of the June 18th Early entrant withdrawl, unless yall want to make it sooner?

By Astro Joe

May 24, 2006 11:52 AM | Link to this

Princess, the drawing actual takes place a few minutes before it is televised. I’m not sure why, but at least in past years, those GMs, Presidents, players, etc. knew the draft order before it was shown on television (I assume that was true again this year). So your “boy out in China” must be a true insider as it may have only been an hour or less between the true drawing and the televised event. See if he can give us some scoop on BK’s plan in free agency.

By Adam

May 24, 2006 12:12 PM | Link to this

Doc - I see your point, but there’s no reason to get down on Marion; not only is he the only guy providing any interior defense, but he is also a better perimeter defender than Nash. Actually, just about everyone is a better defender than Nash, which is why I think there has been so much criticism of his being chosen as the MVP. Plus, Marion has played more and rebounded extremely well on a team with no additional interior support. If anything, I would say Marion is just as important as Nash for Phoenix.

Now, take Lebron, Kobe, and Dirk off their respective teams and there just won’t be much left. In fact, take the former two off their teams and you’re talking about two teams as bad as - if not worse than - the Hawks. But that’s all counterfactual and pointless. Personally, after the Dallas-SA game the other night, I would say Nowitzki is the best player in the world Right Now. Nobody I’d rather have on my team. (then Wade and Lebron)

By honest abe

May 24, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

bp…this whole topic isn’t really worth arguing about…i just noticed you had corrected someone…and as we all know once you win one of those major championships…everyone refers to you as world champs…ie like the world champion san antonio spurs ..anyways..don’t get so riled up about something that nobody really cares about…apologies if my comment hit a sore spot :)

as for your insider i’m not doubting his information.. but i had always read and heard that those slots were kept strictly confidential and nobody knew but the people in that room…bah but it’s not like i expect anything to be kept secret…

By streets

May 24, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

Every year the national media ridicules the the fn base in ATL because of the poor support for the hawks. As a long time fan from NYC(ever since NIQUE even after his heartbreaking trade) the hawks always had attendance problems and lack of support from the local fans. Even when Lenny Wilkins came and guided the hawks to the top seed in the playoffs and the other contending years with Mookie Blaylock, Steve Smith and Kevin Willis the team still had attendance problems. Now that they hit a lossing period the only time they have a sellout is when a marquee player comes to play against them. Compared to the Clippers until this year they were in the lottery every year but had a better attendance than the hawks. It would be sad to watch NBA TV and see in the 3rd or 4th quarter of a good game dozens of empty seats. The lack of fan base in ATL the hawks should get new owners and move the team to the owners location and overhaul the team to bring them back to life since it is not working in ATL. I bet even after the hawks somehow breakthrough and start winning again they are still going to deal with small crowds.

By doc

May 24, 2006 12:38 PM | Link to this

adam, i am not down on marion as you are taking it out of context. it was rebuttal to my good friend atf. going back in an earlier blog i said that i felt marion had been quiet and had to laugh at myself when i found out he put up numbers pretty close to what he usually did during the season at 20/10 and heaped on the praise as he is the most overlooked, consistant 20/10 for the last what, five to six years. i love the guy but he wasnt the mvp that atf made him out to be as atf wants to continue to detract from nash’s game and effort. it is a running string of blogs that probably wont end for a while unless nash is mvp in the nba finals with the suns as champs, which i am not too far gone to predict.

people also miss the fact that the suns play defense but it is not the classical slow down half court stuff where everyone waits for someone to move then block their shot. measured on stops per posession the suns rank right up there. that is what avery talks about when he allows his team to run as long as they are also making stops. he stresses it, STOPS, listen to him, it is not the avg points alowed at the end of the game but stops per possession. it is a different concept for defense and one that is hard for everyone who wants to see traditonal funnel them to the big man and let him block the shot type of d so they know they are seeing d. nash does play d, gets some steals a game and gets back on defense. it is meaningless to talk about perimeter defense on a team that doesnt allow you to play traditional half court offense. it is a transition style of play based on stops however or whoever does it to keep the ball in motion.

the playoffs between the mavs and the suns should be a classic as they play similar in concept.

we know what the suns are/were without nash, 25 wins, no speculation there. by the way that was with marion and amare before nash arrrived on the scene. please check your data before you make that kind of a comment. also the mavs werent in the finals last year without nash, bet they would have been but pure speculation just as what the teams would do without labron, etc. we do know what teams would do without nash, go back and look. with kobe last year the lakers were lottery, with him this year they are at home just barely into the playoffs. like wade, labron, dirk and nash. now if i can just get sheed to wake up i can avoid the wrath of andy.

By Adam

May 24, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

all good points Doc. i do think the Suns are an improved team with or without Nash, but it’s definitely fair to say that he was the primary ingredient that put them over the top; or at least, near it. the one thing i would contend is that Nash is a good defender in the unconventional sense. the Suns may be ok, but it’s not because of Nash - at least, not in my opinion. whatever the case, i would agree that he’s definitely the most crucial player in that team’s success… and in that way Phoenix Does underscore a conventional piece of logic: that you need a floor general to make it all work. i only hope the Hawks are paying attention to such results, if not to all of us.

oh, and sorry to take it out of context.

By honest abe

May 24, 2006 01:37 PM | Link to this

pg’s of teams that have made it to the last 8 nba finals…

chauncey billups tony parker gary payton (the washed up version) jason kidd derek fisher eric snow mark jackson charlie ward avery johnson pippen(or harper) stockton

pretty much a 50/50 split so i guess it is still possible to make it to the finals with just a serviceable pg…or if your the bulls and you have someone like jordan, you don’t need one at all :)

By Steve B.

May 24, 2006 02:00 PM | Link to this

I’ve read what A lot of you have written about A.I.. I think alot of you are confussing 23 year old A.I. with 30 year old A.I.. We all mature at some rate and he has matured, at some point you have got to stop holding his past against him. He’s not Mj or Majic, he’s not going to say the politcaly correct thing, he’s going to say what he realy feels. This is the major reason he is so popular with those 30 and under.The guy proves you don’t have to be clean cut or a kiss a* to be something in life. Like it or not to show young people you don’t have to be like every one else to make it is a good thing. I don’t agree with every thing A.I. dose or has done but a lot of it has been over blown due to the fact that he’s not media freindly. He got his self in what I like to call regular people trouble, in the car with his boy’s when they got pulled over with weed in the car, wanting to fight when some one was harrassing his girl freind(now his wife), saying he dosn’t like practice, getting into a fight in a know racist part of V.A.. I’m not saying he’s right for any of this but he’s not a monster either.Things like this are troubles that a lot of young black men get into and learn to grow out of. He has grown out of these troubles, If your going to judge his character judge him for the guy he is and not the guy he was. He’s one of the top 5 players of his gen like him or not that’s a fact.

By Steve B.

May 24, 2006 02:17 PM | Link to this

Even with all that said if I’m BK I don’t make this move. My answer is 2 fold though. 1 I really like the way J.J. J.Smith and Marvin have progressed. I don’t think we need another scoarer. J.J. could easily put up 25 6 and 6 next year, J.Smith 20 8 and 4 are reasonable goals. Marvin 16 8 and 3 would be nice. 2 The other team rumored to be in the running for Iverson is Minn. My 2 favorite player on thw same team would be something to watch. They could compete for a championship and get both of them the credit they deserve. I’m so tired of hearing Kobe, Kobe, Kobe, and he hans’t won anything without Shaq. And I’ll say it without another Major star added won’t win anything without Shaq. I wouldn’t hate it to see him come to Atl but I’d rather see him go to Minn.

By HB Ando

May 24, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

OK, so BP is the official keeper of the draft competition. Are we doing the whole first round, or just the lottery (13 picks)? BP, I’ll hold my picks until the 18th (is that a date we can all agree on). I think it’s going to be very tough to accurately predict this draft, because draft day trades are very possible, and, with regards to the Hawks pick, whether they go guard or big man will, I think, be completely based on behind-the-scenes discussions they are having with agents and other teams, about possible free agent signings and trade scenarios. Obviously, if they set up to sign a point guard via free agency, they aren’t going to take Marcus Williams (I don’t think they should anyway, at least not at five). It appears that some folks think Ty Thomas could be there at five for us. So a big question is do you take Thomas with the intent of balancing out the roster with a subsequent trade (packaging one of your young forwards and some other combination in an attempt to land a high quality veteran, or offered to NO on draft day for picks 12 and 15), or do you take the player you target to fill an immediate need (some sites suggest we could take Shelden Williams or Patrick O’Bryant here), even if some folks have a guy like that rated in the 10-15 range. I guess the question is whether the guy we take at five going to be that much more highly rated than either of the 2 players we could get at 12 and 15 if NO wanted to move up and take local product Thomas, who does fit a clear need for them (versus replicating what we already have in Josh Smith)?

Without knowing what plans are being made for trades and free agency, it will be purely a crapshoot projecting which direction the Hawks go with the pick. I continue to adhere to the belief that finding a viable point guard, or complementary combo guard, to put in the backcourt with Johnson, via trade or free agency, is much more easily completed than finding a viable big man through those routes. If the Hawks are of similar belief then it’s most logical to take a big man in the draft and address the guard needs via the other routes indicated.

By St. Bernard

May 24, 2006 03:53 PM | Link to this

Does anyone have any info about O’Bryant. I read he’s a tru 7 footer and athletic. I never saw him play, so I can’t get an accurate read on him. The more I think about this thing, if we could pull off a trade with NO, that’s what I would do. Because maybe O’Bryant or Williams will be available with Collins or Rondo. I would prefer a combination of either of these two over the number 5 pick. What do you guys think?

By Astro Joe

May 24, 2006 04:20 PM | Link to this

St. B, I suggested a trade with the Hornets literally more than a month ago. We need quality role players. Surely we could choose from Williams, Simmons, O’Bryant or Armstrong from the XL collection and Collins, Rondo, Lowry or Farmar from the small collection. And, for a set of owners that may be $40M in the hole, it is a cheaper way to build a roster than a #5 pick and a veteran free agent pick-up. I did not see O’Bryant play during the tourney, but I believe that he did have a big game against Pittsburgh and their big center. So at least when he faced another legit 7-footer, he excelled. Beyond that, I am probably reading the same things you are, a project that may take time to develop. In my head, I envision a more athletic version of Indiana’s David Harrison.

By Adam

May 24, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

I used to live in Philly and, as I remember it, most of the hype about AI’s “actions” emanated more from the media than from his actions. He did get into some trouble, but MUCH of the coverage stemmed from his image. In any event, AI has been very quiet for years now, out of the spotlight, and in fact has become something of a private person. He’s also a huge fan favorite in part because he’s big in the community.

None of that is to say that Iverson would be a good fit on this Hawks team. I have no idea whether that would be the case or not. I do think that for a couple years he and JJ would be great in the backcourt together, but the price of Harrington, Childress, and the #5 pick - if that is what it would take - could be too costly in the long run. And Iverson’s body just can’t keep going forever, he’s too small and has taken so much abuse, and from the looks of things such deterioration may have already begun. Didn’t he miss a bunch of games this year?

If Thomas is still around I think the Hawks would jump on him; but that’s highly unlikely. It does sound like Roy could be a decent fit in the backcourt, as he’s a nice SG who can handle the ball very well. Of course, there still would be no ‘true’ point - Rondo or Williams could be reaches at #5 - but as someone else posted that may not ultimately matter. Well, if you have a Kobe or MJ or AI anyway.

By HB Ando

May 24, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

Joe, you were absolutely on point in projecting a trade down (I didn’t care for the idea if we had the ability to draft Aldridge, which it seems completely unlikely at 5). But seeing how New Orleans also has multiple needs, is it realistic to assume that they would give up the ability to obtain 2 solid players, versus the one they would get from a trade with us? I mean if it makes sense for us to make such a move, then doesn’t it make sense for them not to? I guess the question is how much do they value Ty Thomas, as a local Louisiana product, and will he be there for us at 5 to seriously look at such a deal.

By Samuel

May 24, 2006 05:31 PM | Link to this

We don’t need another scorer. OOOOKKKKKKK!!!!!

By HB Ando

May 24, 2006 05:37 PM | Link to this

I haven’t seen O’Bryant play either, so it’s purely conjecture on what I’ve read. But it sounds like he’s probably less developed offensively than a Harrison, but more of an impact player on the boards and defensively. Given his rapid improvement over the last two years, and the fact that I read he was only 19, it sure sounds like he has a lot of room to improve. Given the apparent upside, the fact that he’s legitimate right now as a rebounder and shot blocker, and that he’s 4 inches taller than Shelden Williams, it sounds as if he’s got more upside than Williams and that he’s not too many years away from reaching that upside. Could be a lot like a Kaman, coming out of a mid-major with far less fanfare than if he had played at one of the big schools. But do you reach for him as early as five, as some sites have suggested? Without seeing his workouts, there’s really no way for any of us to have an informed opinion.

By HB Ando

May 24, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

Man, you know nobody knows what’s up when these mock drafts are all over the place. I saw a site where Diaz, the Miami PG goes 22nd and we get Saer Sene at 33 and another where Sene goes at 23 and Diaz goes 45th. Can you say blindfolded dart throwing?

The lack of any consensus on who goes where, from 5 to 15 sure makes it intriguing if we could flip 5 for 12 and 15. I just think that New Orleans will see the same value in keeping those two picks unless they’re enamored with Thomas and he falls to us.

By Mel

May 24, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

I saw O’Bryant play against Pitt in the tourney. One game is too little to tell but he dominated them and they have a pro bound center in Aaron Gray i think. I dont kno if Pitt played zone but he killed them the entire game and then he was MIA in the next game against on of those cinderella teams in there. He would be nice in the 9-15 pick range.

By Vince

May 24, 2006 09:54 PM | Link to this

I think we definitely need to pick Marcus Williams or maybe Brandon Roye. But again if we get Brandon Roye we dont have a true point guard. Any rumors on who we would sign or trade for this summer besides iverson.

By Mel

May 24, 2006 10:27 PM | Link to this

I read Dime every now and then but the two mocks they’ve put out on foxsports.com are really out there. They talk about how the Hawks have fallen in love wit Bargnani. I pray that he is picked before we have a chance. I never liked the idea of European players for some reason. I cant wait for this summer to pass so I could see what BK is gonna do.

By A Thinking Fan

May 24, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this

Did you see what Nash did? He passes the ball to his teammates. He stops the game to show them how to shoot. He even stops the game to show them how to dribble, rebound, pass, run, etc. He is the greatest player ever. Those other guys shouldn’t be on the floor except for him. Without him they would not be in the NBA.

Nash scores all the points, grabs all the rebounds, makes all the steals. He is the greatest player! Hmmm, is this still a team sport?

By doc

May 24, 2006 11:07 PM | Link to this

very evasive atf, but you still havent answered the question. who else would you take besides marion to be one of your top seven players if you could pick anyone on any team?

simple question atf, not saying they are dogs but who would you want a head of any of the top seven or even nine of the mavs, position for position, besides marion.

By A Thinking Fan

May 24, 2006 11:11 PM | Link to this

Then that makes the Phx GM a fool!

By doc

May 24, 2006 11:23 PM | Link to this

evasion is your only response, atf? one point ahead with 45 seconds 10 what straight points in crunch time with 16 assists.

BIG TIME! whether they win or lose.

By HB Ando

May 24, 2006 11:26 PM | Link to this

Diaw!

By A Thinking Fan

May 24, 2006 11:29 PM | Link to this

They or Nash by himself One can’t define the focus of the conversation; and then want to have it both ways to win his/her point.

By Boris Diaw

May 24, 2006 11:30 PM | Link to this

I would just like to thank Mike Woodson for not having a clue how to utilize my talents and to Billy Knight for giving me away. The people of Atlanta should know that their basketball franchise is in extremely smart, insightful hands. Continued good luck in the Eastern Conference playoffs (what, you didn’t make the playoffs?).

By A Thinking Fan

May 24, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this

Does the Coaches’ system have anything to do with the success of Phx? Or does Nash design all the plays as well?

By A Thinking Fan

May 24, 2006 11:38 PM | Link to this

Does the GM get any credit for putting the Phx team together? Or did Nash do that himself as well?

By doc

May 24, 2006 11:39 PM | Link to this

no atf you just proved my point, their gm is the smartest man around because he went out and got the mvp for two years straight without giving up a player or without blowing up his team, got the consumate team player who doesnt take any cred and guys love to play with.

atf, you remind me of a guy without water, crossing the death valley desert. you are crawling my man.

went bird hunting one time and the guides trained their dogs to one sound when a bird was down. can hear it very clearly and it was kind of funny with the slow drawl and all.

ddeeaadd,    ddeeaadd,    ddeeaadd.

that was all they would say and those dogs would just get so excited.

atf, look out for the dogs. ddeeaadd.

til the next game my friend.

By A Thinking Fan

May 24, 2006 11:41 PM | Link to this

Boris You got it all wrong, Nash is the reason for you being in Phx. He is the GM as well.

By cowa

May 24, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

I’m reading all the mock info like everybody else, but I see one scenario that no one else seems to be seeing. All this stuff might be smoke screens, but go with it for a minute.

Toronto: All I’m reading about Colangelo is that he loves Bargnani. Lots of mocks have Toronto taking Aldridge on pure speculation, but the GM is saying how much he loves Bargnani, so let’s put him at #1.

Chicago: The word has been for the past month that Aldridge is a better fit, but that Chicago really has fallen in love with Thomas. Not having read anything else from the GM, let’s put Thomas here.

Charlotte: Their GM wants a player with position flexibility, and they are not going to draft on need but the best player available. That could read into Roy, Bargnani (but in this mock he’s gone) or Gay. The only comment on either Roy or Gay is that the media has been way too hard on Gay. From a pure skills viewpoint, Gay has everything (except for a killer instinct). Let’s throw Gay in at #3.

Portland: This scenario leaves Portland with a choice of Morrison, Roy or Aldridge. Their coach is lobbying for Roy. Both Morrison and Roy are local products, which would put bodies in the seats. They have Zach Randolph at the 4 already. One insider stated they wouldn’t be surprised to see Portland go after both Roy and Aldridge. If they really want to please everybody, they go for Roy at #4.

Atlanta: Unbelievably, this would leave Aldridge on the board for Atlanta. Seems like a no brainer, except then we add in the Billy factor. Could he possibly pass up Aldridge here? Who else could he possibly take? Well, let’s not go there, and give Aldridge to Atlanta at #5.

Now, if Portland is serious about getting both Roy and Aldridge, wouldn’t this above scenario make perfect sense for them to try to trade with us? They have PGs we want, and maybe a draft pick in the 2007 draft with other spare parts? Just some random thoughts…

By CJ

May 24, 2006 11:43 PM | Link to this

Right now I’d say Nash is one of the top 5 players in the NBA. I think people keep underestimating these Suns and his impact upon them. They shouldn’t even be in the West finals!! Tim Thomas shouldn’t be putting up big numbers! Boris Diaw shouldn’t be considered a future all-star. Raja Bell is putting up numbers!

Take away Nash..insert a Sam Cassell, Tony Parker,..even Paul..they loose. I can only imagine Jason Kidd having a similar impact..and he can’t put up 30 like Nash can on any night. Remove Nash insert Amare..they wouldn’t be where they are. He’s the perfect example of what a point gaurd’s role is and I think you’ll see more people who pattern their game after him. He’s good for the NBA.

By doc

May 24, 2006 11:44 PM | Link to this

ddeeaadd ddeeaadd ddeeaadd

By A Thinking Fan

May 24, 2006 11:46 PM | Link to this

Boris Nash is the only reason you scored 34 tonight. You non-playing NBA B-ball player.

By CJ

May 24, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this

Sorry to take up more blogspace..but the Hawks need to stop being Kingmakers of OTHER NBA teams. I see their former players all over the NBA making HUGE contributions. They need to overhaul their coaching methods and mentallity and maintain the talent that they obviously have let go for basically nothing year after year. Not that Knight knows what to do with the Harrington situation…doubt it.

By A Thinking Fan

May 24, 2006 11:51 PM | Link to this

No Team concept, No other players, No GM, No Coach in PHX - Just Nash!

By doc

May 24, 2006 11:52 PM | Link to this

ddeeaadd, ddeeaadd, ddeeaadd

By Clyde

May 24, 2006 11:58 PM | Link to this

Steve Nash didn’t help Diaw score all those points off post moves. Pheonix has done what Mike Woodson and his staff could not do. And that is bring out a young player’s talent. Boris Diaw was too young and too talented for Woodson to give up on. Plus I would take Diaw over Jhill anyday. FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By doc

May 25, 2006 12:03 AM | Link to this

no atf, he has done it with two teams, different coaches and different players and achieved success this year with less. he has scored points and he hasnt, he doesnt down grade anyone just brings them up to their capabilities and just does what is necessary to win. it isnt about the system as he has played for two organizations, extremely well, which i might add like kidd has done. no, he doesnt sing his praises the way you are, he makes sure it isnt all about him. he was able to ask in a classy way out of phoenix the first time by saying he could start for someone else and do it well, so he backs up on his promises. coaches love him because he makes them look smarter. say what you will, but you are …. ddeeaadd.

atf, now go to sleep on this one, what happens if i get to say ddeeaadd seven more times this year. nightmares. goodnight atf, sweet dreams.

By A Thinking Fan

May 25, 2006 12:05 AM | Link to this

Did you see what Nash did? He passes the ball to his teammates. He stops to show them how to shoot. He even stops the game to show them how to dribble, rebound, pass, run, etc. He is the greatest player ever. Those other guys shouldn’t be on the floor except for him. Without him they would not be in the NBA.

Nash scores all the points, grabs all the rebounds, makes all the steals. He is the greatest player! Hmmm, is this still a team sport?

Does the Coaches’ system have anything to do with the success of Phx? Or does Nash design all the plays as well?

Does the GM get any credit for putting the Phx team together? Or did Nash do that himself as well?

Boris You got it all wrong, Nash is the reason for you being in Phx. He is the GM as well.

Boris Nash is the only reason you scored 34 tonight. You non-playing NBA B-ball player.

No Team concept, No other players, No GM, No Coach in PHX - Just Nash!

By CJ

May 25, 2006 03:26 AM | Link to this

atf you’ve lost it… ??

By Malone

May 25, 2006 03:26 AM | Link to this

I think BK takes the best/safest available at #5 which will be B ROY. Good backcourt complement to JJ and probably closest to NBA ready in the top 15. Don’t forget, he’s 6’6” and BK loves him some height. Trade Harrington for a seviceable big man (to spell Zaza) and a future number 1…maybe I’m reaching…

No A.I.!

By Samuel

May 25, 2006 06:46 AM | Link to this

DOC,

I believe ATF is just pulling our chain. I believe he is secretly in love with that “Bad White Boy”. Isn’t there some kind of medical term for that DOC?

By doc

May 25, 2006 07:05 AM | Link to this

sam,

yep there is: ddeeaadd

just no vital signs for that argument anymore.

sweet dreams last night atf, my friend?

good day guys!

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 08:28 AM | Link to this

atf…nobody disagree’s with you that lebron is the man….so get that through your tiny head…it is possible to believe that there were more than one player deserving of the mvp … you can make an argument for several different players this year…but for you to undermine everything that nash brings to the table is STUPID!

By The Flash

May 25, 2006 10:08 AM | Link to this

Doc, sorry it took so long getting back. The answer is, No. Levenson wouldn’t know me if he feel on me and I wouldn’t fall on him if I knew him (no idea what I just said). I learned about the deal from the papers. Belkin, you’d think he’d know better, does not use me as a resource in formulating his deals. He’ll learn. Not!!!

Astro Man, so Levenson was talking out of both sides of his mouth. Getting tired of it yet? He tells the court that they, the spirit have nothing to gain by delaying interminally the day of reckoning with Belkin but his affidavit in that regard makes no sense. If they ain’t got the money to run the team properly, where are they gonna get the money to buy Belkin out? As long as they drag this thing out, they get to play with Belkin’s money and are the face of the Hawks, which is all they have ever cared about. Keep watchin them, Astro Man, until you get tired of being lied to and used. Let us know when you say, “Okay, I’ve had enough, what else can you show me.” Bob Dylan. I ain’t holden my breathe!

By HB Ando

May 25, 2006 10:14 AM | Link to this

In the post, that’s what I’m saying, Clyde. The idiocy of suggesting that Diaw’s production is purely a product of the system he plays in is highlighted nightly by simply watching him play. IF you are watching and you still believe that his numbers are some sort of mirage that can only be attributed to D’Antoni or Nash, there’s a short, yellow bus which will be arriving in the morning to take you to school (and more specifically, it confirms you have only a rudimentary understanding of the game of basketball).

Now, let’s be clear that highlighting Diaw’s talent, and the stupidity of giving him away is not to be confused with the argument of whether we should have obtained Johnson. That’s not, nor has it ever been the position, so nobody needs to start blowing about whether I’d rather have Johnson. The issue is that he was a throw in on the deal and you’d think the brilliant GM, Billy Knight, could have come up with a slightly less talented throw in, since he was also “throwing” in 2 first round draft picks, just to get a restricted free agent, who had already challenged his egomanical owners pride by publicly stating he did’t want Sarver to pay him $70 million to stay in Phoenix (which from my perspective is like saying “don’t be stupid enough to give me $70 million when I don’t want to be play for your team or live in your town”).

Anybody who thinks Diaw learned all this in the short pre-season, after the mid-summer trade didn’t hear about how dominant he looked last summer while playing for the French national team. I’ve heard people say he only scores on layups, like they’re coming from 2 on none layup drills. All I see is him scoring over the top of the best big men in basketball (Duncan), as he slashes through crowds of defenders acrobatically.

Time to give Diaw his due. Because on top of his Most Improved award this year, it’s now clear that if the league gave an award for Most Mis-Used, or Most Under-Utilized, he would have won the during his last season in Atlanta, under the tutelage of Woody and his genius boss, Billy Knight. Remember he said that he watches all the practices and he’s absolutely sure that he knows more than anyone else about basketball; what in the hell did he see last year during practice while watching Boris Diaw? It’s one or the other: he’s a moron for not knowing he was that good, or he’s a moron for knowing and giving him away.

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

LOL…ya so easy to blame BK on giving Diaw up….if you want to throw some mud on BK, come from a different angle and criticize his hire of coach woodson……”oh great one” i just don’t see how you always bring up the fact that diaw was a minor part to the deal…but you never seem to give him credit for the fact that HE DRAFTED HIM!! then in his second year he took two steps backwards, the new rookies got more playing time than he did!! coach woodson constantly called him out in public saying he was too passive, too soft, and put him on the end of the bench…so all your constant negative outlooks on bk is misdirected….the guy obviously liked him alot to pick him over josh howard…and remmeber that’s something all you so called gm experts blame BK for as well…well you can’t have it both ways!!!!1

tell me how did BK screw that draft up? because he didn’t take josh howard, or because he let diaw go? i’m confused…. oh ya he also screwed up because he took childress! then the next he took marvin over paul….HEY GUYS IT’S ONLY BEEN TWO YEARS…REMEMBER DIAW BLOSSOMED IN HIS THIRD YEAR…WHY NOT GIVE THE GUY SOME CREDIT…HE’S DRAFTED PAU GASOL, DIAW WITH THE 21ST PICK, JSMITH WITH THE 17TH PICK, THE GUY HAS AN EYE FOR TALENT….SO SHUT YOUR WHINING ALREADY…

think about this….all you little whiners out there probably contributed to diaw leaving as well….ALL I COULD HEAR FROM THE MEDIA AND THE FANS WAS HOW BK MESSED UP WITH THE DIAW PICK…, THE FANS ALL SAID HE WAS SUCH A BUST…THE CITY OF ATLANTA DID NOT EMBRACE HIM, HIS COACH DIDN’T EMBRACE HIM….AND SO YES IT MADE SENSE TO SHIP HIM OFF!@@!$@%#e$%@#$ SO IT’S SO MORONIC OF YOU ANDO TO BLAME DIAW’S DEPARTURE ON BK…GET A LIFE DUDE

By Clyde

May 25, 2006 10:39 AM | Link to this

HB ANDO:

Look here. All your Philosophy is good but Diaw success is simple. Nash and D’Antoni believe in Diaw. He had to prove himself in Atlanta therefore more pressure was on him. Woodson would dog him for every little mistake he made so he had to watch every little move he made out there on the court. His style of play is loose therefore alowing a mistake here and there. Diaw is not the type of player that responds well to people being in his face because he makes a mistake. Woodson failed to realize this therefore hindering Diaw’s development. All that tough love crap doesn’t work on everyone.

With all that said here is the fact. Diaw was a scrub in Atlanta’s system but he’s the most improved player in Phoenix’s system. Phoenix is in the Western Conference Finals and Atlanta is the laughing stock of the NBA. Now tell me which system is more sucessful. FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By The Flah

May 25, 2006 10:43 AM | Link to this

Abraham:

Who hired Woody?

Who stood behind him?

Who is still standing behind him?

Where exactly does the buck stop?

By Clyde

May 25, 2006 10:44 AM | Link to this

Honest Abe:

When you trade a player away you give up on him. When you throw a player in to complete a deal you give up on him.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 10:45 AM | Link to this

flash…first of all stop always trying to kiss ando’s butt and defending him all the time…ando is more than capable of doing that himself! ok? next go read carefully and i said that his criticsm is misdirected…you can blame his hire of coach woodson…ok? so does that answer your question?

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 10:53 AM | Link to this

one other thing let me tell you somethign the whole attitude of this city is messed up….atlanta is the biggest fairweather fan city in the US…..the falcons are completely dead…now we have all these die hard falcons fans once they start winning…they will all jump ship if the falcons have another losing season…all i remember is not being to watch games on tv because every home game was blacked out…so i had to listen to the games on radio…as for the hawks…nobody is ever satisfied…when the hawks were winning 40 to 50 games…everybody was complaining the hawks were too slow, too avg, weren’t exciting….so what ownership/management do they go hire lon kruger and try to shape the team to the fans desires….get jr rider and jim jackson…that blows up…we hire stotts…he’s even more up and down…the fans complain we get a bunch of deadbeats in here…THEN WE FINALLY GET RID OF THAT CURSE BABCOCK…and now we have a GM that hasn’t picked an adam keefe, or a rumeal robinson, or a jon koncak…CMON! stop all your constant bs….support the gm and the team…let BK do his thing and lets see where we are in two years….good teams have something called stability….if we change head coaches every other year along with a GM that is not going to bring the hawks success…and i’d like to see someone argue that point with me!

By HB Ando

May 25, 2006 11:08 AM | Link to this

Even in other countries, Billy Knight’s basketball acumen is of legendary status:

“The Atlanta Hawks, holders of the fifth pick with no record of genius in their front office, have expressed love for Bargnani, and perhaps they’re insecure enough to need someone to second that emotion. Toronto Star”

By HB Ando

May 25, 2006 11:15 AM | Link to this

Even in a city where NBA basketball has existed in shambles, Toronto, we, the Atlanta Hawks, are a laughingstock.

Abe,

Sometimes you need to process what I say before you respond. You ask why I don’t give credit to Billy for drafting Diaw, but I did. When i say either way he’s culpable for a big mistake: by realizing he was that good and not finding a way to optimize his value on this team, or by underestimating just how good he was. Either way. Now don’t turn around and say it’s completely on Woodson to optimize his value, because Woody is Knight’s guy, 100%. So Woody’s failings are Knight’s failings, as well. The only fans that said he was a bust were fans reacting to Woody’s lack of faith to him, after he fell out of favor. But he was leading the French National team all summer, while Billy was looking to dump him. Seems his GM might have wanted to consider reports coming from overseas at just how well he was playing, before dumping him, AND TWO first rounders, to the Suns, for a guy their owner likely would have let go out of ego. You can type in caps all you want, little man, but it’s not going enhance the flawed logic of your argument.

By The Flash

May 25, 2006 11:16 AM | Link to this

Well Abe, you answered one of them. Just because I happen to agree with ando on a lot of matters does not mean that I am defending him. Make some sense, man, that would be novel.

Here is another question. Do you think, in light of Levenson’s recent affidavit, that, with what little BK has said, he has been flat out lying to everyone? If not, explain his statements about why no moves of consequence were made with the possible exception of his having given Delk to Dumars for, hello, NOTHING! Some GM!!!

If Leveson is to be believed (now that’s a rich one), BK’s most “brilliant” move put this team in a financial hole from which it will not soon recover. I’d like to drive a cedes too. Can’t afford it though. Seems like frugality and building through the draft was the way to go, then, when the fans started to come out, spend on the big free agent. that is second guessing for me. But, if memory serves, that was one of the things BK was bashing his boss belkin for. So, you got to ask yourself Abraham, just how many ways do you want to have it to stay in the bag for your boy BK.

By the way, criticizing a GM for not having the coaches who could actualize the talent you drafted is not trying to have it both ways. It’s holding a guy accountable for his inadequacy for the tasks at hand. That’s what his bosses, the spirit, probably would have done long ago had BK not been the point in their battle to unseat belkin.

By HB Ando

May 25, 2006 11:17 AM | Link to this

And Abe, if all the “whiners” were to shut up, the blog would shut down. It’s the very point of having a blog. Learn to deal with differing views and unbunch your panties.

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

brilliant keep taking shots…i guess a writer from toronto agree’s with you ando…maybe its time to move :)

it takes at least five or six years to evaluate a trade or a draft pick and see what the real impact was/is….

BK traded shareef adul rahim for lorenzen wright, brevin knight and the draft rights to pau gasol…ok was that one good???? please clyde tell me he messed that one up to!

He drafted shane battier…???? bring the criticsm now…! one helluva a solid nba player…

the man has cleared the hawks of all that exccessive salary… cleared the hawks of all the horrible players stockpiled here during the BAbcock regime…now he is rebuilding this team…he’s had the job for 3 years…did you really expect after all the mess atlanta has been through that he’d have a championship contender by now??? think, i know it might be scary for some of you…but i might be right…it takes time…give it time …

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 11:27 AM | Link to this

ando you tell me to read more carefully…i suggest you do the same…i said you were coming at the whole diaw thing the wrong way…i said if you want to b*tch and moan about something…talk about bk’s hiring of woody….does that make sense..or is this little man confusing you?

as for you flash: go back for the past 4 months…all you do is kiss his pompous arse….you come off as his little faithful assistant, constantly praising him for his great insights…and then coming to his defense when someone points out that he needs to come off his high chair and realize he just might not know as much as he really thinks…

By HB Ando

May 25, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

Doesn’t talk about this kids size, versatility, shooting touch and wingspan sound familiar:

“The 6-foot-9, 225-pound Williams averaged 13.2 points and 6.2 rebounds per game as a freshman. He helped lead Memphis to a No. 1 seed in the NCAA Tournament and the finals of the Oakland Regional, where the Tigers fell to UCLA, 50-45. After that loss, Williams originally told Memphis coach John Calipari he would return to school as a sophomore. But Williams said Calipari quickly told him to consider his decision more carefully. “He looked at me like I was crazy and told me to wait a couple of weeks,” Williams said. “He said he felt like it would be a good year for me to come out. He told me, ‘Don’t worry about me, kid. I’m going to be fine.’ ” Calipari supported Williams’ choice. “Shawne is ready to take the next step in his professional basketball career without question,” Calipari said in a statement. “He is going to be one of the great surprises of the NBA draft.” ESPN.com

Agent Happy Walters of Immortal Sports, who will represent Williams along with Bill McCandless, said he’s received excellent feedback from pro scouts who love Williams’ size, shooting ability and 7-foot-3 wingspan at the small forward position. “He’s working out for nine teams picking between fifth and 15th,” Walters said. “I think he’s either somewhere in the lottery or shortly thereafter.” ESPN.com”

Sounds alot like the Williams we drafted last year. The one that Dominique said was a once every ten years talent? Makes you wonder if this kid played at Duke or North Carolina whether his hype would have been as simalar as Marvin’s. I’d be interested in Sekou’s take on what differences exist between this kid’s potential and Marvin’s, as it sounds like they bring very similar things to the table.

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 11:32 AM | Link to this

agreed ando all blogs are for is to complain about management and 2nd guess personnel moves…yup yup…i guess the blog would die, if all we did was discuss potential moves and players….your right…without your constant praise for yourself and criticsm of BK this blog would be nothing but a bunch of morons talking basketball…

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

i apologize to everyone else out there…but ando is really irking me today….so you think the only reason marvin went number two is because of the hype from NC??????/ what the..he was projected to be a lottery pick coming out of high school….

do everyone a favor and stop talking about things of which you have no clue…

By HB Ando

May 25, 2006 11:44 AM | Link to this

Abe, this is all a little too personal, a little too important for you. Most of us show up here to talk a little smack about basketball. If Flash is supportive of my opinions it’s likely because we see things similarly and I try to ground my opinions in logic, not rhetoric. I don’t scream. I don’t throw whole phrases into caps. So, I’ll repeat what I’ve said for some time, quietly, that there are no excuses for Billy Knight come this summer. None. A top pick, $20 million in cap space, an owner who has said their are no financial constraints to limit his moves, a viable sign-and-trade with Al Harrington, as he moves on. We need a point guard, or complementary guard to play with Johnson in the backcourt. And we need either one, or two, depending on how much PF they expect to get out of Marvin and/or Josh, big men. They’ve got multiple avenues and flexibility to procure this talent. So not doing so, under the BS of “rebuilding takes time” is not acceptable to me. I’ll say again, if he gets the job done this summer, I’ll shut my yap about what an incompetent moron he is.

But it’s funny to see you dog Flash, and his agreement with some of my opinions. Do you know how much you look the pot calling the kettle black with how far you have your head up Billy’s a*? Everything that comes out of your mouth is in defense of him, like you’re his illegitimate son. Which is fine. Again, it’s the point of having a blog. But the irony of you coming down on a guy like Flash, when you spend most of your time licking Billy’s boot tops, is lost on no one here.

Now try switching to decaf and just relax. Your boy Billy has the whole summer to prove his genius (and unlike Billy, I’ve never publicly stated something so silly as “I know more than everybody else about basketball”, so who’s arrogant in this town?). No excuses.

By HB Ando

May 25, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

Abe, don’t you really mean, do you a favor and stop saying things you don’t agree with? You’re like a petulant child. You’re words conjure the image of a 7 year old, sitting on the living room floor, crying uncontrollably because he can’t have his way and he doesn’t want to share his toys. You’re like this little Asian George Costanza, ranting and raving to the bemusement of the live audience in attendance. You are confirmation that my attempts to get a rise out of folks like you are working to perfection. I can just see you typing away with a bright red face and I can’t stop laughing.

Let me go, Abe. I’m not your problem. We don’t have a beef. Your opinions are irrelevant to me. I’m not going to stop doing my thing. So just say no to Ando.

By the Flash

May 25, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

so, you’ve answered one of the FIVE questions I’ve posed concerning your boy BK and then started behaving like some uneducated dolt. If BK should not have hired Woody, what do you say about his having stood behind him and continuing to stand behind him? A little mistake or a big one? Continuing to stand behind him. That okay with you or not? This isn’t Ando talking. He has said nothing about this. This is me. And, I assume that there is some YOU there. Act like a man, and not a guy who just has nothing to say.

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 11:55 AM | Link to this

ya i’m pretty pumped today my arrogant friend…but i’m feeling GREAT! as for me taking this too personal, i really don’t it just helps me pass time…but when it comes to passion for the hawks…what i can say i’m guilty…i love my team…and i like to talk about them…and when i think someone is wrong i’ll point it out…doesn’t necessarily mean i’m right…but i like to think i am…

as for your sidekick…i could care less if he agree’s with you…i agree with other people on this board as well that does not mean i won’t disagree with them either…he if someone was kissing my butt all day i’d come back to their defense as well…

as for decaf i’ll pass…i need caffeine or i’ll be snoring five minutes from now….you say the same things as billy just not in the same words…you know you feel that if you were GM you could’ve done a much better job than BK… and although that’s something very easy to say….i just see you as babcock supporter and so you just try to take away and criticize every little thing about BK…boooooooooooh

here’s some advice for you…cut some of that ego out…just a taaaaaad bit…ok who am i kidding…you need to come down alot…obviously i think you’re one of the most intelligent people on here but your arrogance is downright despicable…

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

asian george costanza?? haha i wish i had a little more meat on me…and if i’m half as entertaining as he GEeeeeeeeeeeeeeorge..i’ll take that as a compliment :)

By Malone

May 25, 2006 12:03 PM | Link to this

People who don’t know the difference between “YOU’RE” and “YOUR” really bug me.

Take Brandon Roy. Trade Harrington.

BK has more positives on his resume than negatives. It’s real simple.

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 12:06 PM | Link to this

malone YOU’RE correct

By HB Ando

May 25, 2006 12:07 PM | Link to this

OK, Abe, I’m going to say this again. HB Ando is not my name. Just like Honest Abe isn’t yours. We’re caracatures, Abe. In real life, I’m not overtly arrogant. But this is a blog. I’m not here to report the news. I’m here to state opinions with emphasis. Words are fun. They can be used as weapons or used to soothe hurt feelings. Don’t confuse these p** contests with real conversations. Because they’re not. The truth is that I’m just as likely to think I could be a sports writer as a general manager. I think there are alot of things I could have done besides what I’ve chosen. And I think that’s true for most people. This forum gives us a chance to put our opinions in writing. For public consumption. I think that’s pretty cool. So don’t expect me to change the way I present my opinions, because it’s part of the character that I’ve created for this blog. And that’s an outlet for me. That’s a voice I like to use to blow off a little steam. Don’t take it so personally. I’d have half as much to say if guys like you and Joe (on occassion) didn’t get so exasperated with my posts. Getting angry with me is like pouring gas on the fire of posts. You’re just egging me on, and getting more and more p** in the process. It’s all good, bro. It’s just talk.

By Chase

May 25, 2006 12:18 PM | Link to this

If you’re going to spend a lot of money on a pg in the offseason, then get Cassell. Yes, AI is one of the greatest point guards of all time, but he really doesn’t fit with the direction of the team right now. We don’t want a player who is going to help us win now and then leave, we want a player who can mentor our young players and make us a solid team for many years to come. That is not AI. That is why Cassell would be a much much better fit for this team. Draft Marcus Williams and let him learn from one of the greatest winners in the history of the NBA. Cassell will follow the money. As long as we pay him enough, we can get him.

-Chase Impending Firestorm

By The Flash

May 25, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

Abe, as you continue to call me Ando’s boy, I suppose you’re off your kick about calling me belkin’s boy. That’s a step up at least.

Here’s a flash for you. Unless and until the spirit are replaced, this team will be disfunctional. It starts at the top.

As for your boy BK, my boy belkin thought he had talent. I think his most major failing is in a different area.

It really is my take on this whole spirit/belkin thing and BK’s lack of integrity that bugs you, isn’t it? It’s okay, you can admit it. That is what you had been screaming about since I made my views on that score known. Tried for a long time to stay away from the issue; always used to say something to the effect that “it will play out the way it plays out.” Still saying that. Only now it is clear that the spirit will drag this thing out as long as they possibly can. By their own admission, that will drag down the team you profess to love. Live with it. Don’t hate the messenger because you hate the message.

By The Flash

May 25, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

Abe:

Two last things, Ando and I have had at it big time on many occasions since I started blogging here.

Second, the guy impresses me with his knowledge of who is out there, what their strengths and weaknesses are, who might be available and why, etc. I love the game but was a feel player, and base my assessments on feel, sense of what fits and doesn’t. I think Ando presents impressively, and my feel/sense is that a lot of what he sees as possible, and a lot of what has been disappointed in, fits.

That is not to say that I do not see much, much value in other bloggers. I do not hesitate to say when I do.

If you check back, I came to this blog counseling patience. I was an advocate for standing pat regarding key players, including, most importantly, Al. Astro and Ando talked me off that point. Astro, Ando, Samuel, talked me off my insistance that JJ must play the 3. Doc has talked me off too many things for me to recall them all. Thinking Man, what can I say other than what I said once before on this blog, “startles your stinging ears to hear that somebody thinks they really found you.”

So, honest abe, you jealous?

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 01:29 PM | Link to this

holy s* two red bulls can make one type like your on crack…i like what you’re doing ando….you are the calm, collected one…and i’m the crazy, pyschotic one…fine i don’t care how you try to portray it….but realize this….i don’t take things personally…i’ve had everyone on this board take shots at me and personally i could care less…you drop bombs on me all the time…and i return the favor on occasions…so trust me i could care less what you think of me or of your opinions for that matter…i know this is just pointless banter that has no effect on the hawks…so i’m chill BRO..

flash i’m going on vacation tomorrow…just a little too pumped today…but i like to argue if you haven’t noticed…so i took a cheap shot, who hasn’t on this blog.? don’t have to explain yourself to me….i have an opinion of you and that won’t change…

By A Thinking Fan

May 25, 2006 01:34 PM | Link to this

DOC I just spent the better part of my day downloading MS Office Beta – 445MB = 3.5 hours. I’ll get back with you on our running gun battle over NASH. Bro, I know you are chompin’ at the bit to try and kick my butt over him. HOWEVER, off to install and play with my new management tool!

By HB Ando

May 25, 2006 01:45 PM | Link to this

Abe, you gotta admit, it was a pretty clever spin…..

By HB Ando

May 25, 2006 01:47 PM | Link to this

I’m taking wise, old sage/sensei lessons from doc. Trying to find a calm, happy place to balance my hyperbole and reportedly boundless ego. Ommmmmmmm. Ommmmmmmmmm.

By Steve B.

May 25, 2006 03:20 PM | Link to this

Come on Abe,I’m on your side this tag team of Ando and Flash led someone to guess a couple of weeks back that Ando and Flash are the same person. If you remember me and Ando where having it out so to speak and Flash jumped in with his argument about how I didn’t respect others instead of reading what I wrote and checking to see who called who out. You can’t expect them to role on one another, nor can you exspect Flash to admitt that his boy Belkin isn’t as good of A guy as he makes him up to be. Just do what I do read what Ando says and exspect Flash to repeat it.

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 03:32 PM | Link to this

lol steve just as long as i’m not the only one that see’s the light! heh

By The Flash

May 25, 2006 03:43 PM | Link to this

Right you are Abe, but I’d actually go one further. As W.C. Fields put it, “Never try to smarten up a chump,” chump. That goes for your boy Steve B. too. Tell me again how Larry bird blah, blah, blah. Some of us actually try to bring it real, not blow!

By St. Bernard

May 25, 2006 03:59 PM | Link to this

You guys need a marriage counselor….

On to more important things, has anyone heard the rumor that Al might be dealt to Philly for Dalembert. I think it’s on RealGM. Anybody think that’s for real. I can’t believe it, but I would be willing to take on his salary…and draft the guard we want (I like Williams, but I’m open for discussion). I liked Dalembert last year as a FA and I still like him. He’s an athletic big. We don’t have to have a big time scorer down there, just a protector. This thinking is making me more and more fond of O’Bryant as well from what I read about him.

By Steve B.

May 25, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

FLASH the last time you tried me you got your feelings hurt, don’t do it to your self again your not up to the task. I and alot of the regulars bring facts and how to find the the info. Even if I don’t like what their saying I give it thought if they have proof. You state whatever you think and think it should be fact because you think it. You have not brought 1 fact to the table since this blog started. I won’t call you an IDIOT because evey one already knows it. Maybe you should get your self some mental help or maybe try to reserch what you say before you type or open your mouth. Think it thru FLASH do you realy wan’t to try and walk down this road again.

By St. Bernard

May 25, 2006 04:18 PM | Link to this

Guys, how about some basketball talk?!

By The Flash

May 25, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Now that was funny, unlike those Jim Rome wannabees and their “takes,” which are plain offensive and devoid of substance. Never said my boy belkin was a saint; he just looks like it next to the spirit.

By Steve B.

May 25, 2006 04:29 PM | Link to this

St. Bernard I liked Sam D. to when I thought we could get him for 45 to 50 million. His D and willingness to give hard fouls would help us a lot. As wellas hi rebounding.I’m just not sure about his contract(it’s a max deal I think). If ownership is willing to go over the cap to keep J.Smith in 2 years and Marvin in 3 I’m all for it. If It’s going to cost us one of them down the road I’d stick with the Pryzbilla/ Wright plan.But he would help us your right about that.

By Steve B.

May 25, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

St. Bernard I liked Sam D. to when I thought we could get him for 45 to 50 million. His D and willingness to give hard fouls would help us a lot. As wellas hi rebounding.I’m just not sure about his contract(it’s a max deal I think). If ownership is willing to go over the cap to keep J.Smith in 2 years and Marvin in 3 I’m all for it. If It’s going to cost us one of them down the road I’d stick with the Pryzbilla/ Wright plan.But he would help us your right about that.

By the Flash

May 25, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

Stevie boy, I called you an idiot because you insisted against all reason that Bird does not think highly of belkin enough to have cast his lot with him over a period of years to get the charlotte thing done. You trot out some nonsense about a failed attempt to buy the celtics and suggest that that is proof of something. What? That bird got involved with belkin again, successfully I might add until Johnson of BET said he wanted the franchise that belkin created. So explain to me now, why you are not an idiot for continuing to insist that belkin’s relationship with bird is not some pretty convincing proof that he has basketball credentials and the confidence of one of the most notable talents the game has known. Then do the same regarding ML Carr.

Bring it. Not calling names. Explain how your, er, point makes the least bit of sense. Please. I am waiting.

By honest abe

May 25, 2006 04:42 PM | Link to this

you can’t say that AI is too much money to bring here and then flip and think that Dalembert would be an economical move. for the size of his contract 7rbds 7pts and 2 blocks is too much! besides he picks up way too many cheap fouls…

By Steve B.

May 25, 2006 04:49 PM | Link to this

Flash this is exactly what I’m talking about, you putting words in other peoples mouth to try and make your self look better. I never said What Larry thought of him because I don’t know Larry. I talked about how long Belkin tried to get an NBA team and how many times people backed out on him. I high lighted the Celtic deal that Bird droped out of because I had the articals to prove it.Jucst because he’s your freind dosn’t make him a good guy. It’s funny you said nothing when the proof was infront of you just to bring it later in a wish people forgot. Do your reserch. You act like A five year old child stop putting words in others mouths and bring facts not your opion.

By The Flash

May 25, 2006 04:59 PM | Link to this

I didn’t respond because I thought your point was insipid. Still do. How many NBA franchises are there. How many guys you think would want to own one. To try and not succeed is no shame. It does show a level of commitment and experience I would think would be of comfort to someone who professes to love this team. But, that is just me.

You like Levenson and Pesk’s experience better? And, your boy Gearon, he did terrific in the past, right? No one could improve on that performance. Come on, Steve, make some sense. Even a little. Everybody is listening. Ain’t you embarassed. No? Now that is embarassing.

By doc

May 25, 2006 05:06 PM | Link to this

atf you know we are just jammin and nothin but luv. have to say it there is one bird down in the field, said i wasnt crazy enough to predict the suns would go all the way but if there are seven more in the fireld over the next few weeks there is going to be a lot of feathers for you to choke down.

friday night, i guess it is.

came in tosay after some travels expecting someone to have commented on the really good and candid interview of coach herb brown. it was excellent. honest after all your travails today i think he pointed out what you said in an ealier blog (poss someone else, so dont be offended) but in response to the ai issue he said they had a rally good point in eric snow when they went to the championship. when asked about points, andre miller was one he specifically liked and one we have drooled over on this blog. he evaded the ai issue intially so if ai comes dont expect herb to feel it is what they need which he also said was a point in the traditional sense; the guy who can create first but has to be able to finish with his own stuff when teams back down and double. he then specifically said ai is not a point and that he was disappointed in the number of wins the philly boys got in the last 15 of this past year. he likes the guy but not at point.

now do you love it when nash says the play at the end was to go to him and was designed that way but when he found himself covered he looked to teammmates for help and dished it to diaw to be the hero. got to love it, he didnt macho it and try to be the star but did the right thing. the guy is flat good.

flash you havent responded to the notion of what nash reminds me of and it is two guys from our era, pistol and couz, showtime with clarity.

fess up atf, i know you like it when the game is played the right way and RESPECT it.

well im ddeeaadd and out guys.

By The Flash

May 25, 2006 05:15 PM | Link to this

by the way, stevo, while you are at it, show me the article that has bird saying one bad thing about belkin, one indication that he was and is other completely sold on the guy. I don’t have a clue about the celtic deal you are talking about, but I would have to guess that the thing was dragging out and bird decided to take that coaching gig with Indiana. That right? If not, some of those facts you say you always have would kind of be necessary now.

You are sinking badly here, stevo, right out in front of everybody. Let’s see those facts. Belkin-Bird; Levenson-french fries; Pesk.-? Come on, stevo, let’s see those facts. While you’re at it, show me some facts about Gearon. Good ones that is. That’s what I thought.

I ain’t going no where Stevo. Bring it on. Me and you are just getting started.

Oh, before you hang up, you think that this team can afford JJ? Never mind all that was given away, because your boy BK chose and stuck behind a coach who don’t know offense. I mean 20 million last year. And 50 million more. Can they afford it?

In retrospect, Stevo, kind of think belkin might have had a point about short term frugality. Maybe there were some smarts behind that view. Your boys now are claiming poverty, and they ain’t even paid belkin yet. How’s all that lie with you. You do love this team, right? Come with them facts, Stevo, we’re all waitin on you.

By The Flash

May 25, 2006 05:46 PM | Link to this

Doc, the guy Nash reminds me of is Lou, the guy who got caught up in the scandles in the early 50s. The guy who ruled the court in Lawrence, LI. Ask Herb, bet he knows of him.

Pete was a marvel but not Nash. Lacked the generousity of spirit, and depended much more on his incredible skills. Nash has a better feel for the flow, understands where people’s momentum is and works off of that. Couz is close, but lacked the scoring skills that Nash has.

Nash is like a short Larry Bird, only I think that his temperment is more joyful, and less intense and out and out competative.

I think that you’d actually have to go to a different sport to find Nash’s equivolant, soccer, the sport his father coaches. Watch some of the world cup, and focus on the great center mid fielders. That is Nash. The US has one, in claudio Renya, but he just pulled a hammie and is getting a little long in the tooth. This guy Ronaldino, who’ll be playing that position or outside mid for Brazil, is also a trip to watch. These guys are complete magicians and have such vision and deliver the ball in such diverse and effective ways, and can finish on their own. They are Steve Nash.

Maybe Magic, but that I fear is giving Nash too, too, too much credit. Aside from no 6, who is the best player these eyes have ever seen, Magic is the next most incredible embodiment of everything that is great about about this great, great game. Nash is maybe as close as one could get to Magic, that’s the only legit way to put it. Saying Magic is like Nash is inappropriate. Now, Mr. Russell, “when comes such another.”

By Steve B.

May 25, 2006 05:47 PM | Link to this

Flash have some balls and admitt your wrong. Not only that stop putting words in my mouth for the last time IDIOT. I never said Bird had anything bad to say about him I said Bird backed out of the deal and that’s a fact. Go back thru the blogs IDIOT and find it yourself. You embarass your self every day by saying a lot without saying any thing. What are you going to do loose and say “stick it again” your a coward. Not only can you not tell the truth, you can’t go back and do your own reserch, You can’t find a way to attach some one’s argument so you put words in their mouth’s. I said before and I’ll say it again the only thing you have prooven is that your waste comes out of your mouth instead of your butt. Dude I love your intrest in the HAWKS but stop with the lies and stop putting words in peoples mouth’s. Your smarter than that so grow up and proove it.Your begining to Boar me.

By Steve B.

May 25, 2006 05:50 PM | Link to this

If you going to have the balls to come at me for something in the past, Have the balls to get what I said right without adding to it or taking away from it to try and proove your point. We are waiting!!!

By The Flash

May 25, 2006 06:25 PM | Link to this

Stevo, that’s what I thought! What happened to them facts, boy? Lose them? Go home, little guy, only the big boys get to play and you ain’t one of us.

Actually doc, you want to know who could remind of you Nash, take a look at some old film of Herb’s kid brother. I didn’t see him that often, but, if memory serves, Larry was as quick as alan on the court, and distributed and scored like Nash, though he never, except on the Olympic team, had the supporting cast. I didn’t follow his career in the ABA really, so maybe he did there.

Thanks, doc, for bringing my feet back on the ground. I appreciate it. You too St. B. Although it might not seem it, you really helped cool me off. Nice thing to do!

By The Flash

May 25, 2006 07:22 PM | Link to this

Doc,

In the college game, I can think of a number. The lefties at tech, especially the first one, and dare I say Starberry. Dawkins and J Williams at Duke, Phil Ford if it wasn’t for that g-d awful 4-corners thing, Ernie D for a slow white dude is a nice match. The second Pearl at Syracuse, now there was a Nash type. Of all the above, the closest to Nash I guess I’d have to say J Williams.

Now that I think about it, Couzy is pretty close. However, the crazy thing about Couz, is that the Celtics probably would have had the same record of championships even if he wasn’t on the team. Don’t forget, their second backcourt might have beaten their first straight up, probably more than half the time. KC was a beast, as in complete, and could run a team. Sam is the single most underrated player ever. The guy was so much better than Sharman, who don’t get me wrong was pretty terrific. But, Sam was 6’4” and the most athletic 2 of his time. And, that bank shot.

By Steve B.

May 25, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

To no balls FLASH. I’m not going back over the blogs to look for something that you are to lazy to find. You had no argument then wich lets me know I’m right Coward.

By St. Bernard

May 25, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

zzzzz….

Steve B. No one cares. Talk basketball. You’re wasting space for everyone else. Somewhere along the line I lost track of what you and Flash were even talking about.

Flash, stick to your word and stop replying to Stevo as you call him.

Have the Hawks worked anyone out yet? Sekou…Princess….where’s all the scoops I’m beginning to expect from you two?

By doc

May 25, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

flash sweet reminisence. the point that i was attempting to make, nash is the flash couz never had and the perspective that pistol never came close to. tiny archibald was a pretty fine one in his day and one that would have thrived in the present nba. clyde and his running mate pearl would have blown a few doors off as well. man, we are going back or i am to where even sam doesnt have a clue maybe certainly not honest but he will get old(er) someday. you know flash you and honest have some resemblance in your blogs when you are not able to work your case to get your rocks off and honest has his two red bulls. heh, heh

i dont want to antagonize the gods, nor atf, but i have chuckled at the idea of shaq trying to play seven straight games against the suns when there is a few days between games to keep the legs fresh. you talk about grabbing his chest and feeling the legs go rubber. even jamie dukes was hoping to see it. the suns had to have been struggling when they went through the gauntlet of 11 games in 22 days. they shoot horses like dont they?

By Salim is my hero

May 25, 2006 11:35 PM | Link to this

Finally, an AJC writer with some sense. There is no way that A.I. is the answer to the Hawks problems. Over the last 7 years every offseason the Hawks have shuffled their roster, and what do we have to show for it. Nothing. Maybe if the front office would like to keep a team together for more than a season, we could have some success. The Hawks already have a scorer in Joe Johnson, a versatile guy that can score from the block or outside in Al Harrington, an inside presents in Zaza Pachulia, and guys that can knock down an outside shot. If we let these pieces come together and add a point guard to the mix, we could maybe think about the playoffs.

By doc

May 26, 2006 12:22 AM | Link to this

i just read bradley’s comments today on diaw. you know i think he went to this blogs archives and has written everything i have said about the issue. okay about everything that everyone else has written as well. one that he strongly stated is the one i still keep scratching my head on. dont get me wrong on this one but i said this back in november when sekou finally said enough around the first of december. i like woody, felt the team didnt quit, and he coached them hard; emphatically pointed that out as the team began to get over its jitters and significant ral life losses.

now, what i still dont get is you build a team of racehorses and put a driver of cydesdales to ride in the cart. it just doesnt quite fit the vision of long lean fast bodies with the daily plan and grind.

By honest abe

May 26, 2006 08:42 AM | Link to this

headed off for vacation….you guys have fun bashing each other over and over… :) i really respect mbradley and think he is ajc’s best columnist. however, i do think he has a personal agenda against BK and it is starting to irritate me… have a safe weekend …doc you are my inspiration, heh…. peace!

By doc

May 26, 2006 09:18 AM | Link to this

abe,

will you be drinking something other than red bull??

one more thing from your rant, are you and flash the same guy? heh, heh

ya’ll come back now!

By Astro Joe

May 26, 2006 09:44 AM | Link to this

Doc, I heard a little of the Herb Brown interview and I thought it was by far the most candid discussion I’ve heard from this current set of Hawks managers/coaches. I also saw that the Celtics recently did some re-shuffling of their assistant coaches and hired Clifford Ray to work with their young big men. Expect Jefferson and Perkins to have huge years. My number one complaint with BK has always been the hiring of Woody (who did improve significantly last year). And my number one complaint of Woody is his choice of assistants. Clifford Ray would have been as important of an addition as any player for next season.

I think the most difficult thing to do is change a player’s position. Diaw is playing PF for Phoenix. Hawks wanted him at PG/SG. Most of us would have screamed if we heard that Woody was thinking about taking someone with Diaw’s ball handling skills and pass-first mentality and have him play PF minutes, especially when the team has been absence of ballhandlers for a long time (does anyone remember JT’s marginal ballhandling skills during his Hawk days?). I think many of you are just enjoying some revisionist’s history. Diaw started many games during his last year with this team. he got plenty of PT. The team needed offense and he couldn’t provide any. If Amare and Kurt had been healthy, we have no idea if we would be seeing the same type of player in Phoenix. Get over it already.

By the by, I am warming up to the idea of bringing back JT. I am also beginning to look at Rafer Alston, as Mike James continues to lobby for a deal with Houston. And as stated many times, Andre Miller seems to be the best PG that could potentially be acquired.

Oh yeah, Ando, about the Hornets willingness to make a trade. I view that team as one that could use another bonafide scorer. And there are not many “guaranteed” scorers in this draft, certainly not in the 12-15 range. So whether it is Morrison/Bargnani as scorers or Thomas as a hometown favorite, I think they would have to at least consider the deal. The one huge concern is that they are not likely to attract free agents considering their nomad situation. So multiple draft picks guarantees that they fill multiple holes, without having to ask a FA to live in 2 places during the next season.

By The Flash

May 26, 2006 10:23 AM | Link to this

You just figured it out? Really? Sorry for you man, really am.

By The Flash

May 26, 2006 10:31 AM | Link to this

Bradley is a cowardly idiot. Everything that is wrong with sports journalism. The guy knows nothing and is lazy. I ain’t no fan of BK, and think that he can and should be faulted for any number of things, not getting value for Diaw and for hiring and keeping Woody as a coach and for a lot of other things, but, come on, there’s Monday morning quarterbacking and there’s Monday morning quarterbacking. Bradley should take his character assassinating behind and go on the air with Gretta or someone. Get a real sports reporter here.

By Steve B.

May 26, 2006 11:30 AM | Link to this

St. B you gotta mind your own buisness. I respect the fact you only want to talk about B.ball and even stay out of your arguments that have nothing to do with me you should do the same. As far as Flash goes your right I should let it go. 1rst the guy said the deal to buy the Celtics didn’t exsist, I brought proof he said nothing. Now he wants to wait weeks later and bring it up again. Ok ok I see why it p** you off.

By The Flash

May 26, 2006 01:21 PM | Link to this

Pinot, a 6’5” Josh Howard type player, from GWU, has just hired an agent. Has hired an agent. I’d look very closely at him. Very closely. He is going to be a contributor in the league.

BTW, nobody is mentioning the big athletic kid out of GWU, Popps. 6’9”, terrific body, and a terrific, terrific guy. A true power forward who is likely to be available late.

By doc

May 26, 2006 01:23 PM | Link to this

aj. it was an intelligent interview. did you glean anything directly from what he said or between the lines.

By Steve B.

May 26, 2006 01:42 PM | Link to this

To be honest Bradley is intitled to his opion no matter how wrong it may be. To be even more honest any one who said they knew Diaw would put up 30 plus in A play off game was shooting in the wind. The Hawks threw Boris in th complete the JJ trade good or bad that’s the truth. No one from PHX said if Boris isn’t in the deal the deals off. Boris has turned out to be one heck of a ROLE PLAYER for PHX. But to sit back and jab at BK over a guy that never showed up in ATL I can’t agree with. Woody comes from the L.Brown school of coaching, If a player dosn’t buy into your system get rid of him. He did it with Stackhouse, he did it with Thomas both of whoom are playing in the west finnals. Both of these guys are very good role players just not stars. Before words get put in my mouth I’m not saying Woody is LB, I’m saying Brown and Knight brought him so exspect him to be in the same mold.

By Astro Joe

May 26, 2006 01:52 PM | Link to this

Doc, I probably heard maybe 2-3 minutes at the most of the Brown interview. And the part I heard was about Al, that they played him too many minutes and some subtle complaints about his game. I was impressed that he even shared that much, as most of the Hawks execs/coaches I hear usually sound like cheerleaders when discussing current players. Can you please ahare your thoughts on the interview and any specifics that were discussed?

By The Flash

May 26, 2006 01:58 PM | Link to this

Food for thought: Everybody’s marveling at Nash, Manu, the point for SA whose name I forget, Diaw, for their ability to distribute, penetrate-draw-kick, give and go, and generally understand the passing game. The greatest passing game of them all, soccer, boyz. All these guys grew up in soccer cultures. Tell you where you should be looking for your point guard?

By Astro Joe

May 26, 2006 02:23 PM | Link to this

With the 5th pick in the 2006 NBA draft, the Atlanta Hawks select… Freddie Adu!

By the Flash

May 26, 2006 02:29 PM | Link to this

You da man, Astro. Now that was funnnny and much appreciated!

By Astro Joe

May 26, 2006 02:43 PM | Link to this

Thanks Flash, just trying to keep it fun around here.

St. B, about the Dalembert story that the ESPN Insider (whose name cannot be mentioned) suggested. I will hop back on my soap box about the coaching staff. If we had Clifford Ray or some other big man’s coach with a history of success, I would probably invest 4 years and $40-50M on assuming Dalembert’s contract. Because I would be fairly certain that he would develop under Ray’s guidance (after getting D. Howard off to one of the best starts in NBA history, he was recently hired by Boston to work with Perkins and Jefferson). But frankly, I see nothing in Greg Ballard’s tenure with this team that would have me spend that kind of money. I’d rather draft Yemi Nicholson or Justin Williams in the second round.

By St. Bernard

May 26, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

Here’s a big question, who would you guys have sat out last year to get Diaw minutes? Al? Smith? Marvin? Childress? WHO? I hope we get rid of Al as soon as possible, but last year I would have much rather had him mentoring Smith and Marvin than Diaw.

I think Dalembert, would be worth the money. I like him more than Nene (always hurt). The other possible names I’ve heard mentioned are Wilcox and Gooden. I might consider Gooden, but in my mind the optimal center for the Hawks is a TALL SHOT BLOCKING CENTER WHO REBOUNDS. If we spend the money on Dalembert, I won’t complain.

I also read where Minnesota is shopping number six for a vet. How would Childress for number 6 sound? We draft Marcus at #5 and O’Bryant with #6.

With just those two picks our lineup looks alot better: pg- Marcus Williams, Ty Lue sg- JJ, Salim sf- Marvin, Donta pf- Smith c- Zaza, O’Bryant

That’s a nice young 9 man rotation without any FA signings and getting nothing for Al. If you could swap Al and get a big guy like Dalembert, you can’t convince me we don’t make the playoffs.

By the Flash

May 26, 2006 05:14 PM | Link to this

St. B., after you been so nice, I hate to disagree with you (yeah right), but I think Childress is too valuable to move. Does too many things, especially in transition. Closest thing to an exterior stopper this team has. Otherwise, find no fault although I am not thrilled with this Marcus thing.

I’ve been hearing from you guys about this O’Bryant guy, but I’m not knowing anything about him. Where should I go (watch it boyz)?

Pete Carril disciples coach big guys great. Just look at GTIII. Otherwise, I’ll do it. You only think I’m jokin.

By St. Bernard

May 26, 2006 05:28 PM | Link to this

I just have to think there’s no way we draft anyone but Williams.

I think we’ll trade down if BK doesn’t think he’s worth the price.

By the Flash

May 26, 2006 05:29 PM | Link to this

O’Bryant sounds impressive. I’m still a skeptic about Marcus; don’t care what draftexpress says. I’d take Farmar later on. The guy from Philly, I’ve always been impressed with him, but, like Astro, I wouldn’t spend the money unless I had a strong vision about how the guy’s offensive skills, and for that matter the team’s offensive approach, could improve.

Whether that is in the form of an assistant or head, I think that that deserves attention. Herb having been put out front recently is a good sign, however, since my boyz back in the day used to say he could really coach em up.

By RichieRich

May 26, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

ST. BERNARD, I THINK MINNESOTA WOULD RATHER KEEP THEIR PICK AND DRAFT RUDY GAY AT 6 INSTEAD OF TRADING FOR JCHILL…..JCHILL ISN’T EXACTLY WHAT KG HAS IN MIND AS HELP!

By RichieRich

May 26, 2006 05:51 PM | Link to this

SURELY BECAUSE WE MADE THE MISTAKE OF DRAFTING HIM #6 OVERALL, DOESN’T MEAN THAT A TEAM IS WILLING TO PART WITH THE #6 PICK TO TRADE FOR HIM. MAYBE AL HARRINGTON IN A TRADE FOR THE 6TH PICK MAY WORK FOR MINNY.

By Clyde

May 26, 2006 08:39 PM | Link to this

I have noticed something in the blogs. We can go all day talking about Billy Knight’s mistakes, but we can’t mention any accomplishments. The only good thing Billy has done was slash the payroll. But hell anybody can give away players and get nothing in return.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By doc

May 26, 2006 11:13 PM | Link to this

st. b last year would have been a good time to play diaw at al’s slot since al was injured at the end of the year. made the point in an earlier post. i remember al’s knees were in trouble so he sat the last what 5-10 games. we had no center last year either before zaza came in, just never saw much from who was playing that year so it would have allowed the coaching staff to try him at novel places and maybe discover what was discovered in phoenix by their coaches a unique center. they would have had to think outside the box.

aj, i remember some of the info about al as well. said shot selection at the end of the game was poor that he was too far away from the basket. he also emphasized that al would have been better off playing 32 minutes a game and would have been just as effective in totals for points and rebounds. he soft sold the idea that he aint a hoss for minutes and probably wears down didnt sound like he was impressed with the guy but did stress that there are a lot of teams interested in him. said he was a winner and worked real well with the new guys even though he was in contract year and was trying hard to put up numbers for the next contract presumedly.

again, he was not pro ai as a point so i guess i have to back down a bit. he did stress that the role of the point is to make it for the other guys first but he also has to be able to put it in the hole, in other words a point without being a scorer is a liability at crunch time. of all the points he named the only one that is remotely available is miller.

he laughed really hard when asked about the hawks defense since he was there to plug his new book on defense, so, i guess he felt that the players were a bit lacking in that department. he seems to like the new kids on the block josh, marvin but didnt mention chills or salim too much. likes jj a lot.

on the diaw thing he admits nothing except the suns didnt know what they were getting either, that they kind of fell into a good thing. you know without the injuries to amare and kurt thomas we all might have missed it, ah fate. i was really hoping someone else heard the interview and would comment on it. i was on the road so it was fading a bit and couldnt hear at times. what i did hear was very interesting to say the least. unfortunately, perry as usual ran over some points that herb was trying to make. you know that guy is a terrible interviewer, doesnt listen and interrupts his guests. you expect him to be the point guard but he tries to score too. he also just stops the interviews sometimes so he would be good on defense.

anyone else out there hear the interview with herb thursday?

clyde, glad you are still perfect and batting a thousand.

By reese

May 27, 2006 12:09 AM | Link to this

Hey Doc, I’m back. I have been watching the games and listening to sports talk radio. I listened to the Herb Brown Interview and my impression is that he does not want Allen Iverson on this team. He felt that the Hawks needed a point guard and bigs. He then stated that he did not feel that Allen is a point guard. I took that to mean that he did not want Allen.

Herb also mentioned that he did not think that a rookie point guard was the answer. He mentioned that he preferred veterans.

He would not name who he liked in the draft and would not say a position. But, he did hint that the person he liked was a forward in the same category as the forwards we already have between 6’7” and 6’9”.

By doc

May 27, 2006 12:22 AM | Link to this

good job reese, thanks. welcome.

he specifically said there wasnt a ready made point this year. said paul the exception but qualified that with the notion that marvin is the real thing as well if memory serves. he was vague on who he liked but he also said he hadnt seen everyone i thought. do you think it is rudy?

he sounded like the rest of us stressing that big and point notion like he has been blogging with us. maybe brown is flash.

By jackson

May 27, 2006 12:22 AM | Link to this

I think the Hawks should persue A.I. because JJ and A.I. would be a dominant backcourt and championship duo.The Hawks also need a big man because Zaza aint do it. Jsmith would have played a better center than Zaza Pachulia. I suggest they get a big man with championship play such as BEN WALLACE.

By reese

May 27, 2006 12:28 AM | Link to this

Just to add my comments to some of the topics in the blog. Mike Woodson is learning how to be a head coach and this is why I have repeatedly stated that this past season was a learning season for the hawks. Mike admitted on talk radio that Boris stated that he wanted to be traded because he did not like coach woodson. Woodson felt that if a player does not want to play for him, then he should go. Billy backed his coach on this one.

Now, I just hope that Woodson learned that he can’t treat each player the same in trying to get the best out of the player.

As far as AI goes, I would enjoy watching him on the Hawks. However, I would not give away the world to acquire him. We need multiple players on this team. That fact won’t change if we acquire Iverson. If we don’t place complimentary players around Iverson or any other players we acquire, then I just don’t see us making the playoffs anytime soon.

Now, if we are not going to make the playoffs, then I would rather see an up tempo exciting brand of basketball until we can make the transition to a playoff caliber team. I don’t want to see another game seven like the Cleveland vs Detroit where cleveland scored 61 points. The western conference games have been more exciting and teams are playing great offense. The majority of the time, they are hitting shots with defenders hands in their face or making layups with defenders making plays at the ball and not just grabbing someone.

As far as the draft goes, I would trade the pick if I could get quality veteran and later pick.

By reese

May 27, 2006 12:39 AM | Link to this

Doc, the scary part about the hawks coaches, gm, president and owners stating they need bigs is that they are not defining what they mean when they say bigs. Also, it doesn’t make too much sense acquiring or keeping players that the coaches do not want. Unless, they are going to get rid of the coaches. And, as long as BK is GM, I just don’t see him getting rid of Woody. I really can’t guess about who Herb likes because I really didn’t watch college basketball and don’t know much about the players. I did watch a little bit of the NCAA tourney and I’m surprised that Tyrus Thomas has shot up so high. He did not demonstrate that he had an offensive game. But, he was impressive with blocking the shots of the undersized small forwards he was playing against.

By reese

May 27, 2006 12:46 AM | Link to this

Also, I find it funny that every situation can be spun to avoid admitting a mistake was made. Example, stating that a draft should not be evaluated until 3 or 5 years later is funny. Chris Paul can be good for years 1 thru 5 and Marvin Williams can be good through years 3 thru 5 and I should be happy. Just an observance and I wouldn’t have drafted either player. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I would have traded the pick to acquire veteran players.

By Malone

May 27, 2006 02:51 AM | Link to this

One thing that seems to go really unnoticed in all this clatter: Joe Johnson had a better season than Boris Diaw.

Diaw’s on TV every night and everyone’s over-reacting. If Joe Johnson were in a Suns unifrom right now, y’all all be b*** about how we should have signed him. Diaw is playing in a system that works for him. Things didn’t work out for him here in Woody’s system and we got our BEST player last year in a trade for him.

Get real, people. Give BK time. He’s a mad genius.

What about Harrington and our #5 to Portland for Telfair and their #30 and #31?

Just throwing it out there…

By Malone

May 27, 2006 02:57 AM | Link to this

Mark it down:

Marvin Williams will be in more playoff games in his career than Chris Paul.

By tb

May 27, 2006 03:09 AM | Link to this

I had to stop reading to post this. It has come to mind that the thing that is most questioned by BK’s detractors is the JJ PG experiment.

But, look at the result; JJ turned into a 5-7 assist all round talent that can be the leader of our team.

The Hawks were not ready to win in that seario, but hey they wouldn’t have anyway.

I see the experiment as having been a success. It helped our best player finish his game in preperation for the next 4-5 years

By A Thinking Fan

May 27, 2006 05:46 AM | Link to this

Doc I was going to chronicle why I m a detractor of Nash. However, Bell got hurt and the need to do is unnecessary. Phx & Nash will be exposed without Bell. Does anyone remember who Bell played for before he arrived in Phx. Bell takes up the lack of defensive skill Nash lacks. Again, what will be lost is the DD Marion & Diaw put up and that Nash again, evaporated in another playoff game. Nash’s line in the second half of last night’s game is unacceptable for an MVP of the NBA

By doc

May 27, 2006 09:19 AM | Link to this

dad gum atf, up early on a saturday morning. you go guy.

lets see the suns are down three of their main players for this year in amare, thomas and now bell and the mavs had to wait until the fourth quarter to finally put those rascals away. i wonder why? must be the coaches putting on the uniforms.

By Clyde

May 27, 2006 09:26 AM | Link to this

If Herb Brown wants a veteran point guard why did we trade JT and release Tony Delk? Plus the market for a good veteran point guard sucks this year. I say draft Williams so he and JJ can grow together. Since we gave away our veterans lets build with cheap rookies not expensive veterans.

FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By A Thinking Fan

May 27, 2006 10:22 AM | Link to this

Doc Nash had 16 pts., 11 assists = on avg. 2.25 pts. = 25 pts, total offense = 41 pts. I wonder how those other “If it wasn’t for Nash playing with them,” non-NBA, non-Bball playin’ players scored the other 57 pts. on their own. You think they have any skills/talent of their own? Nash played 39 mins. I wonder how the others managed without him for those 11 mins.? PHX has an outstanding Coach, Team System, Players, GM, etc.

By doc

May 27, 2006 10:51 AM | Link to this

atf, i see your point, i guess. i sure am glad that nash is so lucky to have all those all stars around him to make up for his liabilities, just like when he was in dallas. no talent, just being the right guy, in the right place, at the right time. cant dribble, cant create, cant shoot, cant penetrate, cant press the ball up the floor as very few can with speed under control, cant break down defenses, nor play the pick and roll to perfection. why is he still in the league, the mousy, long haired, skinny, white boy, foreigner that he is? dern, even worse he is a non-militant, anti-war guy to boot. down right un-american, opps, guess that is allowed him since he is from canada.

clyde, tony delk wasnt a point the last time i looked but one of the quickest guns in the league shoot first ask later. your first mistake in your life i guess. what did jt’s trade bring us?

By A Thinking Fan

May 27, 2006 10:57 AM | Link to this

When Nash struggle in the Clippers series, and he struggled mightily for an MVP of the **NBA. How & who keep them in it? Marion/Diaw/Bell, and an outstanding game plan executed by them all. If his teammate and the Phx coaching staff hadn’t stepped-up, there wouldn’t have been no 7th or 1st.game heroics for MVP Nash.

By tb

May 27, 2006 11:11 AM | Link to this

The Nash debate was boring shortly after it started. Everyone has an opinion about it and we have heard some peoples over and over and over.

Anyway Nash is playing ball. You guys are just talking sh&”.

By A Thinking Fan

May 27, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

Tb That’s the fun of it all. A place to discuss, debate, and disagree. Just skip our running discussion like everyone else does on this blog…

By reese

May 27, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

Clyde, thats the million dollar question. So many people want to give BK credit for giving away pieces for nothing in the name of freeing up salary cap space and building the team his way. Basically, its the path that will give him the most time keep his job, because it is attached to the name rebuilding.

I would have been more impressed if he would have traded shareef/dickau for Rasheed straight up and then kept Rasheed to play alongside JT and Theo.

I didn’t mind the Al harrington for Stephen jackson trade. It would have been nice seeing Al play in his natural 3 spot alongside Rasheed Wallace and Theo Ratliff.

Now, in the draft, they would only have been able to draft Josh Smith and we probably would not have Josh Childress. But guess what, I can live with that. The other piece that would have needed filling would have been acquiring another big guard who can handle the ball to relieve the pressure off of JT. It would have been nice if they had made a run after Gilbert Arenas who was playing at Golden State at the time. I would have drafted Randolph Morris and I’m ok with the Tyronne Lue coming off the bench scenario. Now, we’re talking a starting line up of JT, Arenas, Al harrington, Rasheed Wallace and Ratliff. Off the bench, we would have Josh Smith, T Lue, Randolph Morris and whatever other scrubs we picked up. Who knows, it still could have been Zaza.

But, there are so many other avenues that could have been taken. And, its easy for me to look at a faster approach because I’m not faced with the possibility of being fired if my results don’t pan out or cause my company to lose money.

Wait a minute, yes I am, but its called the real world.

By doc

May 27, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

atf, i wasnt holding a gun to his head to read. i guess it is even his perogative to throw the language out there too and insult whoever he wants, a privledge to the blogger if he desires or gets up in a foul mood on a beautiful saaturday morning.who knows may be he was rejected last night or even at work today.

clyde to carry your thoughts a little further tony delk was part of the trade that got antoine walker as we sent terry to the mavs. walker ultimately went for a first to boston so some value was returned on jason that included delk.

also, most today consider the harris kid the point for the mavs from what i am getting, may have been confirmed in the herb brown interview. i also feel he may be pretty good, so terry may be available. it is still what we dont need, a two guard disguised as a one or a small combo guard who may still be a defensive liability. guess id rather have the best AI if i was going that route.

By doc

May 27, 2006 11:47 AM | Link to this

atf, you got some explaining to do if the last half negates a season of work for the suns since the alternative is labron. what were his numbers the second half of a seventh and deciding game. thought so, pretty bad, huh. was it three points? but he is still real good and at home. do real men cry, atf, werent there tears in the young mans eyes?

By A Thinking Fan

May 27, 2006 11:58 AM | Link to this

Doc I’ll take tears from a 21 year old who plays his a* off for his pay!

Marion almost got a DD DD: 19pts./19 rebs. Did you see what happened to Ben Wallace playing down on the blocks at 6’9”? SM got 19 rebs. I know, Nash is the reason! They told me rebounding is about heart & effort. I know Nash gave heart to Marion!

DOC Here! Here! Freedom of Speech, and we don’t (so far) have to register to have an opinion. Happy “Memorial Day to all!” I’m out to PARTY this weekend…

By doc

May 27, 2006 12:32 PM | Link to this

atf, tears dont bother me either my friend, it is rather manly in my book.

love marion, prob one of the most underrated guys around.

good weekend.

By cp

May 27, 2006 03:58 PM | Link to this

Im sorry Reese but we traded Rasheed to Detroit for a first round pick that ended up being Josh Smith so your logic doenst work. One more thing Rasheed was not going to resign with the Hawks. Last time i checked, when we did play Delk a lot of minutes we still only won 13 games so how all of a sudden was he going to make such a big difference as a lot of people are trying to contend. The only person we traded that i wish we would have kept was Jason Terry but then again what did we win when he was here? I cant lie if he was up to the idea of coming back to the Hawks id be all for it because i think this time it would be a lot different.

By cp

May 27, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

Well Reese i see what your saying because they still would have had the 6th pick but i highly doubt that would have taken Josh Smith that high. It was too many questions about him coming out of high school. On a lot of mock drafts they had him going pretty high but after a few workouts his work ethic and attitude was being questioned so he began to drop.

By kos

May 27, 2006 04:08 PM | Link to this

1.Toronto-Bargnani 2.Chicago-Aldridge 3. Charlotte-Gay 4.Portland-Thomas 5.Atlanta-Adam Morrison 6.Minnesota-Roy

It’s too early to make predictions.

By reese

May 28, 2006 10:47 PM | Link to this

CP, I’m glad you see my point. Also, if we had JT, Rasheed and Theo as the base, we might not have the 6th pick because we could have won more games. Also, Rasheed might have resigned if we had those players. Plus, I was thinking that we would have had a much later pick and still would have been able to draft Josh Smith. I don’t even think that BK made an attempt to go after Gilbert Arenas. He embarassed the hawks when he played for Golden State and I didn’t understand why no attempt was made to acquire him.

As a GM, you can’t have the mindset that players will not come to play. When BK threw 20 mill at JJ, I was in total shock. I wish he had offered that kind of money to Kobe or Ray Allen when they were free agents. These were guys who were proven in the league. I’m not a JJ hater, I just saw so many other options available and we needed more than just JJ.

We need many pieces for this team and now BK has the money, cap space and draft pick. Additionally, there are rumors of All Star players (Garnett, Iverson, Francis, Marbury) who are available. Now lets see what kind of negotiator and talent evaluator he really is. Now is the time to place pieces alongside JJ and Josh Smith. Some would say that Jchill, Zaza and Marvin are those pieces. Those are nice bench players. I’m talking about acquiring players who will propel this team to the playoffs next year. And if its only college players that are acquired or other teams 2nd and 3rd string players. I will not be impressed.

By doc

May 28, 2006 11:01 PM | Link to this

reese, please before you condemn bk know that last year when allen was available if i remember correctly was a year that the collective bargaing agreement was being made, because of this no one could go after anyone until it got done. also remember that was into the second week of august, in the mean time most “free agents” were already signed by their teams. a lot of guys had done that. there was very little movment, most guys didnt leave the safety of the team that they could negotiate.

think about it, i think the only guys that moved last year of note were jj and curry who were both courted heavily by the hawks. knock bk all you want but not on things that were clearly beyond his control, just dont take shots that have no foundation in truth. remember because of the reverse minimal cap, he had to throw money at somebody. he at least got more than a warm body this time, not like the barry, anderson fiasco of the year before. if he hadnt he would have had to get an expensive body to sit on the bench, it sounds stupid but that is nba finance.

By Kappy

May 29, 2006 10:26 AM | Link to this

ive seen a lot of questions about this O’Bryant kid. he did play impressively last year, but i think he plays a lot smaller than his 7’0” frame says. He’d probably be a 3/4 at the nba level. not that i think he’s a bad player, he’s not. But he’s not the interior force the hawks need.

By Mel

May 29, 2006 11:40 AM | Link to this

If BK really does take the best player available route and its between Thomas and Gay would you really take Thomas: He’s only 218 lbs., Has no real offensive game and can take you out maybe 15 feet for a jump shot. Good blocker and very agile. Gay is the same height. Has extremely long arms and fingers, was a lock down defender in college. Has a way better offensive game. I really dont want either but if you were BK and you thought it was between the two who would you take.

By Melvin

May 29, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

Mel, i would take Gay in a heartbeat. i know we have alot of guys that plays his position but he has superstar potential written all over him. he maybe able to play in the backcourt along side JJ. I would not mind seeing the hawks drafting him (my 1st choice would be his teammate M.Williams) and maybe moving one of the other guys who name is not JJ or JSmoove for help in other needed areas….

By Marvin = wasted pick.

May 29, 2006 02:54 PM | Link to this

Unless we invent a time machine and go back and draft Paul, this is the next best thing. Yknow, unless we continue to suck it up for the next 5 years, hope to win the lottery and get the next LeBron or something…

AI in the ATL?! PLEASE make this happen!

By St. Bernard

May 29, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

Kappy, I haven’t seen O’Bryant play, but from what I’ve read he’s a legitimate seven footer who blocks shots and rebounds. Don’t mean to disagree, but you’re the only person who I’ve heard say he was anything other than a center.

By Kappy

May 29, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

St bernard I only saw Bradley play a couple of times. O’Bryant was impressive. He did block some shots and play defense. I still think his frame is more suited for a PF or maybe even a SF in the pros. He is not a Center. Id even go so far as to say JSmoove is more of a low post presence than o’bradley would be. I dont think he is the low post presence that the hawks need.

im trying to come up with a pro to compare o’bryant to, and the best i came up with is Robert Horry. A young horry, when he could still play some low post defense but also guard guys on the wing.

I really like o’bryant, the more i talk about him. But the hawks dont need a player like him.

By Kevin

May 29, 2006 09:30 PM | Link to this

Kappy, This is probably a mute point because the Hawks aren’t going to draft him, but I would encourage you to read www.draftnet.com about O’Bryant. He’s legitimate 7 feet, has a big frame he hasn’t filled out yet, and played center throughout his career. He is the second center behind Aldridge listed at the center position if I’m not confused. I’m really undefinate in my opinion of him, but he is a legitimate center PROJECT. He is not a small forward from everything I’ve seen.

SEKOU ABOUT TIME FOR A NEW TOPIC….SUCH AS WHO THE HAWKS ARE WORKING OUT

By reese

May 29, 2006 11:19 PM | Link to this

Doc, by the nature of the term free agent, that means that the hawks had the opportunity to make an offer to Ray Allen. Regardless of collective bargaining agreement. The signing of the collective bargaining agreement determined the first day in which contracts could be signed by free agents. Ray Allen was a free agent and therefore could not sign before the collective bargaining agreement. Plus, this is the second time the hawks could have had Ray. Remember the trade that sent kukoc and a first round pick to Milwaukee for Glenn Robinson. Imagine if it was Ray Allen instead of Glenn Robinson. Billy knight was involved with the hawks during that period. I believe that some special position was created for him. We needed a ball handler to assist JT. Plus, Ray is one of the best outside shooters in the NBA. So yes, I still have some bitterness against BK. Especially since Glenn Robinson was a bust and traded away or released a year later.

We’ve played nothing but undersized, no shot blocking young guys who played old power forwards during BKs tenure. Examples, Shareef, antoine walker and al harrington. He calles these guys long and lean. I call these guys young men in old men bodies.

Then, we have string beans marvin williams and jchill who make the basketball look like a shot put when they go up for shots or rebounds.

Not to mention the no jumping tyronne lue and zaza who both look like they are wearing ankle weights that keep them from leaving the ground.

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 10:24 AM | Link to this

Just desserts: Dump my man LB will he? Just to prove that it was him, not LB, that was responsible for the championship calibur team. Good move, Joey, great. Some championship team. Without LB, their ability to outperform on the OFFENSIVE END in playoff basketball is not there. Goodbye. These geniuses talking about Detroit’s lack of defense are idiots. Detroit’s real shortcoming is on the offensive end. Guys who used to play with SUPREME confidence in the offensive trenches now do not have a clue. Most prominently, big ben is lost, as in completely, and Billips, everybody’s near MVP, doesn’t have a clue how to change it. Sheed has completely imploded. Near Worthless. That’s what Larry was worth this team. He helped these guys understand the game, make adjustments as needed, stay on the same page, and know that they could share and score the ball as needed. Easier to make defensive stops when the other team, try as they may, can’t stop you from getting the shots you want and expect from everyone on the floor.

Dumars is going to get a pass here. Everyone is going to blame Flipper. But, Dumars forced Larry out to bring in Flipper. Letting Flipper take the heat, and having the players blame Flipper, is, my fellow bloggers, the end of Detroit’s run. It is finished. The team is on the fast road to decline. And, oh, if you want Big Ben, he’s available. Flipper lacked the talent to help him, to get the other guys to include him and for him to understand how he could contribute on the offensive end, has the guy furious. Talk as he may about defense, it ain’t about defense. It’s about the game. And, in the game, defense and offense are of one piece. Don’t try to tell Woody or BK that. And, that’s why I wouldn’t go for big Ben. He won’t be any happier here than in Detroit. Now, NY might be a different story. This writer (not here) predicted that wallace (only the other one) would be in NY before the end of the season. LB could probably now have them both for the asking. GM’s with egos, you gotta love em.

By doc

May 30, 2006 12:09 PM | Link to this

reese, for what it is worth or you can check it out yourself (so simple to google to get facts if you want them) it was a done deal by july fifth last year. 5 mil bonus with 80 mil over five seasons to an older player, maybe past his prime. expensive but they had checked out his worth on the market and came back to the sonics who agreed to match it when things were done. he just was really never on the market since they gave seattle first refusal. who knows they may have used an offer by billy to set the price which again was pretty expensive for a player i like very much but maybe not someone i want to pay what? 16 mil to in three years. big risk when you have a jj who dollar for dollar will probably do as well if not better at less overall money.

just dont think that criticism of bk really holds water or truth to it.

By honest abe

May 30, 2006 12:22 PM | Link to this

flash one small not….coaches have an enormous impact on professional teams…having said that…coaches get way too much credit when their teams win…and they shoulder way too much blame when their teams lose.

enough with the LB thing…everyone know’s LB is a great coach…and i think everyone could care less for your undying hate towards dumars…your obsession for blaming teams failures on GM’s is quite entertaining…yes i can see it now…IT’S ALL DUMARS FAULT..lol at least your all alone in this boat too :)

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 12:24 PM | Link to this

Hey, Doc, how did you put it, even blah blah blah doing blah blah blah is bound to get it right one time, or some such. Just proved your point; now let’s see you do it again. heh heh heh.

By HB Ando

May 30, 2006 12:27 PM | Link to this

I miss four days due to vacation (it was nice to get to the beach) and there’s so much incorrect information here I can’t even figure out where to start. Let’s start by asking if anyone else but me picked Miami to beat Detroit? I believe almost everyone told me I was crazy about six weeks ago (‘course I also picked the Spurs, by default, with my pick of Phoenix being contingent on Amare playing; which I think would be correct given how tight the Western Finals are without him).

Sam and doc, how about my boy Dirk? How’s his performance stacking up against ‘Sheed’s? What a great playoffs this has been.

All you Bargnani haters don’t need to worry about Billy taking him. Sounds like he’s going at #1, where Colangelo’s track record pretty much speaks for itself. Let’s see you doubters second guess him. Either way, he won’t make it past #2, at the worst. I will say it again. We will not be drafting Marcus Williams. Book it. And predicting who we will draft will be perilous stuff, because I think it’s wholly dependent on conversations Billy is having on possible sign-and-trades for Al, with other teams, and free agent signings, with player agents. They’d be crazy to go into the draft without a good idea of what they’ve got set up with Al, other teams, and agents. Williams ain’t the guy (I know a lot of you disagree).

O’Bryant is a center. Any opinion to the contrary is just plain wrong, Kappy. He’s 7-feet, 260. His standing reach is 9’4. And I’m thinking about annointing him the best choice for the fifth pick (thinking about). He’s got all the measurements we’re looking for in a center, he boards and blocks, and his rapid improvement in the last two years suggests his upside is significant and reachable sooner than later.

I gotta run to doc’s for some acupuncture. More to come. Glad to be back.

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

Dishonest man: MMM, let’s see. How many ways do you want to have it? LB’s absence has nothing to do with Detroit’s embarassing performance throughout these playoffs? No one agrees with that position. What you are left with is the idiotic notion, bought hook line and sinker by the media, that LB wanted out of Detroit, and actually preferred NY! Get one of those brain operations. Oops, I forgot, that’s assuming a lot.

By honest abe

May 30, 2006 12:30 PM | Link to this

i’m baaaaaaaaack…burnt to a crisp and a brain that is quite frazzled…looking forward to the draft!!

reese…cmon!! your better than that! you mention the big dog trade and that Bk should’ve gotten allen? you really think anybody would’ve accepted kukoc and a number one for ray allen…yak….deals aren’t always made in your teams favor…you dont’ just ship people you don’t want and get players you covet…and stop blaming billy knight…he didnt’ pull the strings back then…it was babcock…urggg so frustrating….lets blame bk for every move in the hawks organization for the past 15 years…how’s that sound?

By honest abe

May 30, 2006 12:33 PM | Link to this

“you’re”

By honest abe

May 30, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

what the? i have never said larry brown’s absence didn’t have an impact on detroits performance in the playoffs….in fact my view’s have been the very opposite…all i said was this constant banter about LB is really boring…i was just stating that coaches get way too much credit and blame…

if you want to sit there,analyze and come up with this brilliant notion that detroit’s current failures can be traced directly to dumars..be my guest.. but i think it’s quite a stretch….the jokes about my intelligence … not that funny…quite lame actually…i’ll give your hero (ando) this at least he comes up with a creative way of making me look bad…your comments, your theories, your suggestions, your insults, are all lacking creativity, interest and intelligence…so go suck on that for a while!

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 12:56 PM | Link to this

So dishonest man, do all coaches get too much credit or are we making an exception for Larry. I took your previous comments to mean that Larry is not the difference in this year’s dismal performance by Detroit. If you agree that it is, did you mean what you said in your original response or were you just looking to put me down because, well I’m me.

As for your second point, if Dumars ain’t responsible, who is? You really think Brown wanted out of Detroit to go to work for Zeke? You can’t seriously believe that.

Finally, what else is there to talk about the day after Detroit embarassed itself? Hell, even my boy T’s boy Wilbon was speaking up for Larry, although he refused, and will probably continue to refuse as he has in the past, to even acknowledge the possibility that Dumars pulled the wrong string. Everybody knows that Wilbon is completely in the bag for Dumars; his next best favorite guy in sports next to MJ.

Where you coming from on this, or don’t you care to share?

By honest abe

May 30, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

here’s my view…it’s 2006..not 04 or 05….the pistons have not performed very well this year during the playoffs…can some of it be attributed to dumars? sure why not…can you blame some on flip? of course…bottom line..this is the same team that went out there and won 64 game…i don’t think it’s fair to criticize joe..he assembled a team that is more than capable, a coach that led to team to a brilliant regular season…sometimes…the players just don’t perform…in the end it’s the players that rebound, pass, dribble, shoot…and ultimately win and lose games

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 01:05 PM | Link to this

Ando Man: I believe I picked Dirk as MVP and Dallas to win it all. I have also said it shouldn’t be Williams from the start.

I’m still a roy man, myself, but from what the other guy said about O’Bryant, and now you, as I said last friday, I definitely can see that.

Hey, I’d be careful at Doc’s. dishonest man is on the warpath. I’d hate to think where those needles are gonna get stuck if he managed to get to him.

Only teasing, doc, heh, heh, heh.

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 01:13 PM | Link to this

Hey, Ando Man, inquiring minds want to know, which one of us is Belkin. We can start a little game of I’ve got a secret. People can ask us questions, and we’ll see if they can guess which of us is. There will be a twist. We both can play, but can only guess to an absolute certainty which it is.

Only problem is that everybody, even Steven B., now knows who I am. So I guess it must be you. Only I ain’t saying that because I don’t know. I’m lucky enough to know who I am. That’s more than I can say for some people on this blog.

Like you, dishonest man. Who are you and what’s your connection to BK? Why are you so totally in the bag for him? Are you and Steve B. realy two different people? Scary thought.

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 01:27 PM | Link to this

Okay, just for you dishonest man. Under Larry, Detroit occupied the ball. They worked it, with people understanding how to react if Billips did this or Billips did that; they practiced from spots. Larry explained the game to them, and they understood how their game worked. Guys’ basketball IQ’s went through the roof. Especially on OFFENSE. And, once they understood his lingo, LB could help them tweak on the fly, and still look and feel brilliant. The half court game. They’d use clock and get a shot that they wanted from someone confident in taking it no matter what the defense took away.

Then they dared the other team to try to match them on the other side of the ball. Few could, none enough to get over except SA, and then barely.

That, is playoff basketball. Flipper don’t coach playoff basketball. Flipper was Dumars man from the time he was fired. This is Dumars’ move and it failed. My prediction, Detroit is in real trouble now. We’ll see if I am right. Big Ben after the season will tell a lot. If he’s not back in Detroit, it ain’t because of Flipper. Trust, it starts at the top and is non negotiable.

By gb

May 30, 2006 02:10 PM | Link to this

i have always thought stevie and abe are interns in the hawks pr dept.

By honest abe

May 30, 2006 02:19 PM | Link to this

actually i was thinking about applying to become BK’s personal assistant :)

By Kappy

May 30, 2006 02:42 PM | Link to this

Guys, i guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on O’Bryant’s NBA position. I only think people are talking about him at the 5 because there are so few big men in the this year’s draft. Remember, this guy averaged 10.0 then 13.9 points per game in his 2 years. not exactly eye-popping stats from a guy picked to go in the lottery. and he played at a mid-major!!! his block stats are impressive. but he didnt even lead his team in scoring this last year, and barely lead in rebounding.

If the Hawks made a serious commitment to run like phoenix, o’bryant might be a great pick. he has great quickness and good feet and touch for a big man. but he would be a soft interior defender if thats what the hawks covet in the post.

O’Bryant would be a stud in phoenix!

By Malone

May 30, 2006 02:53 PM | Link to this

Detroit’s run is over.

Can we talk about the Hawks, please?

By Kevin

May 30, 2006 03:45 PM | Link to this

It’s really nice to have something to talk about, this is kinda like before the trade deadline. Except I’m fairly sure we’re actually gonna use our draft picks!

Kappy, if I remember correctly you said that you saw O’Bryant play one game, while I will admit that’s more one more than I saw him play, I’m gonna side with the experts over your one game opinion with no support from anywhere else in the world.

As far as my draft hopes go, I’m mixed. I like Marcus Williams, but I’m also resigned to the fact that he’s probably not in BK’s mold, I guess we’ll have to wait til draft day to find out what happens with him. If there is no trade in the works, then I still think he’s a possibility. That said, I don’t like Roy as much as the guy from Arkansas at #5, but I would prefer to trade down since we don’t need more swingmen. I like the idea of trading down and picking up a pg and big. Rondo, Farmer, or the kid from Spain partnered with a Sheldon Williams or O’Bryant would be nice.

I think New Orleans might bite on a deal that brought them hometown hero Thomas if he falls to us.

Here’s a big question, which swingmen would be willing to give up to take a swing man in this draft? Would we give up Marvin under any circumstances for someone like Gay and a pg (Duhon or Telfair/Jack)?

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 04:15 PM | Link to this

Well thought out Kevin. The first part might be a tad overambitious insofar as the Spanish guy is concerned. Somebody reported that Toronto likes the guy with its one. I also don’t know that Thomas drops to five. If so, you make sense. The second part, I don’t know that you don’t have to see MW a second season, in particular with a point guard and, please g-d, a more fluid offensive approach that has the ball and players moving a bit more. Don’t see moving Smooth or Chill. If they move somebody, it’d have to be for somebody important and it probably would be MW, I fuess.

Malone, well said, I’m okay with that. Ain’t makin no long term promises though. You wouldn’t believe me if I did.

By St. Bernard

May 30, 2006 04:33 PM | Link to this

Flash, The Spanish guy’s name is Sergio Rodriguez. It’s easy to get folks confused when we don’t know much about them. He’s a 6’3” pg and is ranked only behind Williams as pg prospects. Draftexpress compares him to Steve Nash (whether you like him or not). He is 100% point guard…which I like and others like Ando probably won’t.

By St. Bernard

May 30, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

And who do you think will take Thomas? I’m not disagreeing with you, I just think it could happen. The first two spots are spoken for: Bargani and Aldridge. The Bobcats need a scorer and I think that means one of the swingmen (Gay). It would also be hard for Portland to pass up on Morrison or Roy if they are there at the four spot, because of hometown roots. That leaves us and the #5.

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 05:26 PM | Link to this

St. B., given my recent revelation (at least to me) about the soccer influence on international basketball and the succeses of players with such background in the NBA, the Spanish guy sounds great, I’d be all for him if I knew who he was. I had Spanish confused with Italian, thus my comment.

The way you lay it out it could happen, but I don’t think it will. Thomas will be picked by the Bobcats, or they will trade down. If I’m them, I keep the guy. Scoring forwards can be had all over the place. This guy Thomas will make an immediate impact on the defensive end and the Board’s aka the guy I’m blanking on in Denver who is at a young age over the hill. Maybe not as mean as whatshisname, but equally as intense. Rare type power forward.

If he’s available, I think Hawks have to take him which then would make MW definitely trade material. Only, if the Spanish guy is an athlete, then you have to go there. Or do you? What do you think, St B? Has anybody seen this Spanish guy play? Is BK even interested?

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

Let me add, if the Hawks were to take Thomas, I’m not sure it will be MW who they move. I know that this will be controversial, but it could be Smooth. Here’s why.

I am not at all sold on Smooth’s offensive game. I do not know how reliable a scorer, especially at the 3, he really will be. Same could be said of MW, but MW if he catches on, I think that he will have a more reliable offensive output, particularly when it counts. This is more of a feel thing than anything, so I’d be interested in what others think.

Now, especially if we don’t add a better quality 5, and that is a real possibilility, it is possible that they will keep all three. But, these guys will definitely require a stellar point, and the fans will need to be patient and supportive. Hard to picture that. But, you keep all three for a year, or at least part of it, and see how each develops. Assuming Al goes, there should be enough time for the three to split, especially if Thomas plays some center.

Who knows?

By Malone

May 30, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

Are there any plans for 2006-07 for Cenk A. or the Andersen guy we drafted last year or the year before?

Maybe BK is up to something. He is a mad genius…

By Malone

May 30, 2006 06:20 PM | Link to this

I think BK ignores “team need” and takes “best available,” because I smell a trade — probably packaged with Harrington. There’s talk at hoopshype.com about the Lakers wanting Roy or Marcus W. We would seem an obvious partner for them to trade up.

By HB Ando

May 30, 2006 06:39 PM | Link to this

Flash, I think it would be really cool if you turned out to be Belkin. That way, if you succeed in regaining control of the team, I can offer to be your GM for a significant discount. Hell, just hire me as an assistant to the GM you do choose, or as “consultant to the owner”. I promise to make your team a winner.

Both Colangelo and Paxson were quoted as saying that neither of their teams were deep enough to pass on taking the best player available, even if it meant a short-term log jam. Given that as a prevailing wisdom, and Billy’s seeming agreement via previous drafts, if Thomas were to drop to us at 5, which I think is very possible, he might have too much upside to pass on. Now, the fact that we’d have no less than 3 forwards who all play the same position should enhance our chances of keeping our top-3 protected pick in ‘07 and ensure another season of futility, UNLESS, we are looking at some type of package.

The number of talented names reportedly available this off-season are creating the seeming impression of a buyers’ market. So no excuses if we’re not buying (and signing and trading, and just plain signing).

I’ll send the Lakers a re-signed Harrington and our 5th pick for Odom and Bynum (since Odom is reportedly being shopped).

Sign a free agent point guard like Charlie Bell (I believe he’s coming off a one-year free agent deal for league minimum) or JT, and we got something cooking. I’ve seen some national scouting reports that reinforce what I said here some time ago. With JJ’s passing skills, we don’t have to have a true point guard here, just someone who has strong enough PG skills to complement him and free him up to work off the ball more. I think JT would be a strong, non-traditional backcourt mate to JJ. And with the continuing emergence of Devin Harris, and a big team salary, regardless of how the Mavs end the playoffs, JT may be on the move.

How about looking to bring back Anthony Johnson (one of many players who passed through the organization in the last few years only to play a significant role for a better team)? He was tremendous during the second half of the season and in the playoffs. He’s a veteran, and like Mike James, as gotten a little big better every year, while competing with bigger name guards who get handed starting jobs. Bird says he wants a bigger role for the Lith. guard next season. So combine that with a healthy Tinsley, and Johnson may be available. How about Harrington for Johnson and Harrison?

The options are endless, and continue to reinforce the notion that much of the long term rebuilding can be completed this summer. No excuses.

By Steve B.

May 30, 2006 06:43 PM | Link to this

No FLASH I don’t, I don’t even care dude. Belkin, I’m done with that crap the truth will come out(and has). Sooner or later you will accept it or maybe just deny it again. I’m not so sure the Euro kid and Aldridge go 1 and 2. Last month Chi seemed to be high on Thomas, with Chandler in place and money under the cap I think they might be the team to grab the upside guy(Thomas). I think the Euro kid goes 1,Thomas 2. Char should be thinking swing man Gay will be the best of the bunch in the long run(not knocking Adam it’s those health issues that bother me). Port at 4 is wild they have young talent at all their spots it’s A matter of who their keeping and who their selling. I don’t think they can move Randolph so I think the pick will be Adam(He’ll be an extreamly popular pick). This brings us to the HAWKS and the guy they would have picked at 1 is on the board, they won’t pass on him its’s Aldrdge. I’ll go ahead and say this now as I said about Paul last year, the HAWKS are probably going to be passing on the rookie of the year(Brandon Roy). But they are building A team not a one year award winner. As far as any insults I skipped over, it’s only because I didn’t have time to read it all. I’m not leaving you out their by yourself ABE, just an extreamly bussy weekend and day.

By HB Ando

May 30, 2006 06:49 PM | Link to this

Let me further clarify the point about not having a true, classic point guard here. I have been one of the biggest proponents of getting just that, for a long time. This shouldn’t be confused with me changing my tune. I just don’t find Marcus Williams a compelling enough prospect to take at five. I think he’s a defensive liability, and some recent reports from workouts with other top guard prospects seemed to confirm that. I think a veteran guard, or a more athletic combo guard, like a Roy or a Foye, who is skilled enough to share the ballhandling duties with Johnson makes more sense than a point guard who brings great skill to the offensive side of the court but isn’t athletic enough to guard the lightning quick PG’s in this league. For those of you who say Williams can, all we can do is agree to disagree. But I’m still putting my money on him not being the player we take if we keep the pick.

Go get a veteran guard via free agency or trade. This team is young enough without handing the primary decision making to a rookie. Draft a big man. Look at the money that went to dissappointing big men this past year, in Chandler and Dalembert. It’s always a scramble for these young, unproven guys, and it becomes a bidding war. Draft one, and then if he turns out, keep him. If he doesn’t, someone will pay him top dollar because big guys are so damn scarce. I’m feeling the shocker coming on. O’Bryant at #5.

By Steve B.

May 30, 2006 07:01 PM | Link to this

1 more thing. No one and I mean none is doubting that Larry Brown is one of the best coaches ever. But to say the reason the Pistons are getting beat is because he’s not their is A lie. If you follow the last 15 tears of the NBA you know that teams with the lack of a super star have a 2 to 3 year self life. Larry saw this coming and jumped ship. The original BAD BOYS won 2 and then it was down hill. Give Joe some credit he saw this coming, changed the coaching in hopes of keeping this going by switching from a defensive team to an offensive team. They won’t beat Miami but they did have A great season. Joe knows this offseason he will make moves and shake the team up a little. Write it down I said it. If he dosn’t they will continue to go down hill. IN EVERY SPORT THE COACHES GET A LOT OF CREDIT FOR WINNING SOME DESERVED SOME NOT AND WAY TO MUCH BLAM FOR LOSSING.

By HB Ando

May 30, 2006 07:33 PM | Link to this

How much shaking up can you expect? 64 wins is hard to beat. They just re-signed Prince and they intend to re-sign Big Ben. The other three are under long term contract. Truth appears that they peaked early and got a little cocky, and maybe, a little burned out toward the end of this season. Too much talk and not enough effort. I don’t see how any blame can be laid on Flip. If guys can’t self-motivate when they’re playing for a title, it’s on them. Truth is that I picked Miami over Detroit long ago because I felt like a healthy Shaq and D. Wade last season, and Miami won the East. They come in hungry and Shaq was playing possum on it being the tail end of his career. This set-up was in motion (and called) long ago.

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 07:35 PM | Link to this

offense flows into defense flows into offense; it is called basketball. Larry Brown helps people understand and learn basketball. He is terrific at improving the offensive skills and IQs of everyone who has ever played for him.

He is also terrific at helping his team and its players make adjustments on the fly. He is the difference between this year’s team and last years. Period!

If Dumars dumped Brown to improve the team, HOW COME HE HAS NEVER SAID SO!!!! And, he won’t at season’s end. He will leave flipper to hang out to dry. Sheed will be gone. If Ben is too, Dumars’ days in the sun are coming to an end. That, Steve, is that!

By doc

May 30, 2006 07:51 PM | Link to this

flash, i am not sure of the point you are making but i guess if it is a compliment i will take it from the grand barrister. i hope you also realize i have been praising roy from way back, so i guess that makes two finds for the blind squirrel since you agree on that one as well. or do you want to change it up since i have been on the board for a long time in his corner?

boy flash, it didnt take long for you to start taking jabs at yourself as “dishonest” as you are one in the same; when honest left town we didnt hear from you as well. must be fun to argue with yourself. heh, heh. may have two disturbed people right now.

right now i guess i have some homework to do about this o’bryant kid from the midwest.

we should all begin to get a feel for how things are going to fall after next weekend where everyone goes to orlando to put on a show for the scouts and gm’s.

where did shaq get the spring? haven’t seen that in three years or so. he sure didnt have that this time last year or the year before. give me some of that fountain of youth. sam we are hurting as ando is calling us out. never thought that the suns could make it unless their legs were fresh going into the finals which they arent, but sure didnt think the pistons would tank this hard, lb or no. oh no, here come the flipper remarks from go to seaworld flash.

ando, i dont know if you are interested but a local baptist church is looking for a g.m to run their competitve adult traveling team. it is a start. :-) they are just as cutthroat as belkin and his comrades in arms from what i hear so watch out, sharks everywhere.

By The Flash

May 30, 2006 07:57 PM | Link to this

Ando man: Sheed is imploding. He has lost the surity of da man when the going gets tough. He is lost. He will want out and Detroit ain’t gonna keep him.

Big Ben, as I said, will tell a lot. My thinking is, if NY wants him (you think) and larry is staying, color him gone.

Prince and Hamilton are two very difficult match ups. But, if Ben is gone, Hamilton has trouble matching with the more athletic twos. Can be outmuscled, especially on defense. Prince is a team guy. Where the rubber meets the road, he can get it done, but only in a team concept. If he’s the guy open, he’ll perform. Not a go to guy.

Billips has gained and lost much without Larry. His stats have improved and he swaggers real good. But, his ego cannot substitute for the tweeking that Larry provided that allowed Billips to max out down the stretch in the playoffs. A big loss, and he is starting to know it. So is everybody else. So he is less the glue to the team than he used to be.

That leaves Ben. Without Ben, the team literally and figuratively has no center. And, Ben has lost his center and knows that there is no one in this organization who has a clue about helping him find it. If Brown stays in NY, I wouldn’t be at all surprised … .

No Flipper is not to blame. I like his style and find it quit entertaining. He just is no Larry Brown. And, Dumars knew it. He’ll never admit it; he’ll just let everyone else say it and he’ll weakly, and I can’t emphasize that adverb enough, defend him. Where I come from, they call it throwing a guy under the bus. What do they call it in Atlanta, Ando man, if you are really from Atlanta and not from Boston, in which case maybe I could work for you.

Without Ben, this team comes a part.

Winging it doesn’t win games in the playoffs. If you have the talent Detroit does, and feeding off what they learned from Brown, yeah, freedom can produce results. But, when you need to grind, when other teams scout you to death and get you for the best of seven, winging it is death. Can’t blame flipper. He’s a really good coach, and I fundamentally like his style. But he ain’t no Larry Brown. That ain’t his fault; it’s dumars’.

By doc

May 30, 2006 08:30 PM | Link to this

flash, check out wetzel’s take on things at yahoo nba sports. it seems like you might say, flipper’s blow hole got clogged.

By honest_abe

May 30, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

what’s with the cheap shot doc? i thought we had made peace…lol

dallas wins tonight

By Steve B.

May 30, 2006 08:46 PM | Link to this

Flash how big of a whimp are you. It’s in print punk, I never said Joe dumped Larry I said Larry saw it coming and jumped ship. Flash you never have a point with out trying to words in some ones mouth. Wise up looser. Larry is one hell of A defensive coach and understands how to win, but to give him credit as an offinsive coach is just untrue. Several Pistons had their best Offensive season ever because Flip’s A great Offensive coach. I think Larry’s A better coah but he dosn’t have the offensive mind Flip has. Chesck their track records Flip’s always Offense ,Larry’s always defense. Ando the culrue of the NBA is to be able to make a run at it for 2 or 3 years, Det. has done that. I see how you look at the 64 wins and it’s impressive. But the fact is that was the regular season. You and I both can agree Joe wants Championships not regular season wins. I don’t think Joe will move C.Billups, Rip or Prince. I do think he could move Sheed, Wallace( sighn and trade) and A role player for a certain 7 foot Super star in Minn. If Joe stands pat I think the Pistons run is over.

By doc

May 30, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

honest, dont forget, the first one draft night is on me dude. hopefully, the beautiful basketball princess in all her glory will be there as well with a cabernet in her hand.

nothing but peace. seems you enjoyed your break with or without flash.

By Steve B.

May 30, 2006 09:04 PM | Link to this

Look FLASH I know I upset you by shooting wholes in your game plan, but your getting worst an worst every day by trying to come after me when you have no point without telling a lie. You try so hard to make yourself seem intelligent you make yourself look like an IDIOT. Man-up and stick to what’s on the screen instead of twisting statements and putting words in my mouth. Stick to the facts. IF YOUR AS SMART AS YOU THINK YOU ARE DO IT WITHOUT PROPAGANDA!!!

By reese

May 30, 2006 10:39 PM | Link to this

Well Doc, I yahoo’ed and I see that the hawks did make an attempt for Ray Allen. So I stand corrected.

Abe, you are the second person who have told me that a particular player would not be traded. The first was when I said that the Hawks should have traded JChill for Steve Francis. Someone responded that the Magic would never trade Steve Francis. A month later he is traded to New York.

I think that so many player changes have been made over the years that a GM or Fan can never say a particular player will not be traded.

During the period that Glenn Robinson was traded to the hawks. There was turmoil on the bucks. Ray Allen, George Karl, Sam Cassel and Robinson were fueding. Billy Knight was on the Hawks payroll under some title that I don’t remember. He was here to advise Babcock and eventually took over babcock’s position. Plus, Ray Allen was traded the next year for an aging gary payton (I’ll admit that he was still scoring around 20 points a game). However, Glenn Robinson was avg over 20 points a game when he was traded to the hawks. The hawks picked the wrong 20 point player to pursue.

By doc

May 30, 2006 10:50 PM | Link to this

reese we’re cool, always were. thanks for the follow-up.

By Kojo

May 30, 2006 11:10 PM | Link to this

I know nobody wants to hear it, but the trade of Boris Diaw will go down as one of the worst Hawks trades ever. The guy is fast becoming Joe Johnson’s equivalent..with greater potential it seems (not to mention 2 first rounders). From an outsider’s view..no matter how he performed there…that is the opinion that will stick. I christen the Hawks..the new Golden State warriors. Who’s next to leave…

By doc

May 30, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this

deeaadd, deeaadd, deeaadd

By Kojo

May 30, 2006 11:49 PM | Link to this

Bold prediction Pheonix wins the series…bwwahahahahaaa

By GuyFromUruguay

May 31, 2006 12:38 AM | Link to this

I’d like the Hawks to get AI, I know you’re all saying that it would turn this franchise into the next NY, but I believe AI is a true superstar, I did not understand Philly not making the playoffs. The two very serious qualms are his health (after all he’s old and his reckless style won’t sustain him) and whether he’s coachable and can share the ball - he’s no Francis I think, but he did have his tantrums in Philly, even I know that and I’m an outsider. On drafting, I’m not so certain on the prospects, I did not see the NCAA as I did last year, only thing I know is that Oden looks very good :-P What about Tiago Splitter? Considering that Leandro Barbosa and Anderson Varejao are both having breakout seasons and Splitter is IMO on the same level or better than Varejao, wouldn’t he be worth it? Maybe if the Hawks can trade down if they don’t like the 5th pick, they can take Varejao and Reddick or Farmar or Rondo?

By HB Ando

May 31, 2006 01:25 AM | Link to this

Steve, I think you’re wrong on Larry jumping ship. First of all he was under contract. It was my understanding that the owner was put off by what he thought was Brown’s too public dalliance with Cleveland, so he and Dumars showed Mr. Brown the door. The Cleveland gig dryed up in the mean time and it was Mr. Brown meet Mr. Thomas. At least that was my understanding of the situation. And by the way, screaming and calling people names doesn’t support your position and it makes you look like an A-hole. I’m a big believer in not typing anything I wouldn’t say to a person’s face. Talking like that to another grown man is a good way to get your tail kicked (at least where I come from). Abe and I can get into it pretty good, but I think we both know where the line is. At least try to make your attacks clever instead of just personal.

On the GM’ing stuff, I’m making a comeback to the active roster (player/GM?). Forty comes in two months and I will dunk on my 40th birthday.

Where’s Astro Joe giving me my props for calling Miami over Detroit, ohh, about two months ago.

And we need a visit from Sam to admit that Dirk has made my case for the better PF than Sheed.

Finally, if Colangelo drafts Bargnani, a move Bosh is said to not agree with, isn’t it time (again; suggested it to Levenson 6 months ago) to have some unofficial talks with Bosh’s agent to gauge his interest in coming to Atlanta and publicly letting Toronto know they need to trade him because he won’t be signing his extension? Send ‘em Childress and the fifth pick (yeah, I don’t think they’d take it either).

Night y’all.

By honest abe

May 31, 2006 08:44 AM | Link to this

Reese i think you misinterpreted what i said. i didn’t say allen was untouchable..i said the bucks wouldn’t have given up allen for what the hawks traded to get robinson…bah it’s all speculation anyway…who cares…made a stupid trade for big dog and we are still hurting because of it…but it’s that move compounded with the other 1000 bad moves that have set this org back…

ando i know you keep saying no excuses…i just dont’ think this is the make or break year…i think next year one more growing year for the young kids…then the following year is a great free agent class…i think we add a very nice pick in two years and this team will be ready to do some serious damage..i say no excuses in two years!

By THL

May 31, 2006 09:13 AM | Link to this

I agree with abe on the two year thing as far as contending. The only thing I don’t want to see is no improvement next season. Stotts and now Woodson have worked with a depleated lineup the last few year after the house cleaning BK did. 13 wins was a little worse than expected two years ago but good progress was shown to get to 26 last year. The biggest improvement and the most heartening thing was the way the guys kept fighting to be more competitive despite dealing with injuries and bad officiating at times. Next season, I’ll be looking for the guys to figure out how to pull a few more of those close games out and see how much further our young guys have come. Think about how much better Josh Smith was the second half of last year and how Marvin showed some flashes when he got the playing time.

I’m sure Al is gone and I don’t know if there is a game changing FA out there. Hopefully there will be a solid acquisition for the frontcourt (at the 4 or 5 position…NOT THE 3!) and maybe BK drafts Foye or Williams. I guess I’m just rambling now.

By Samuel

May 31, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

Ando,

I’m not ready to concede that yet. Yea, your boy “Dirk” has stepped up his all around offensive game but I wouldn’t necessarily say that he’s a better all around PF than Sheed.

Actually, he and Sheed are pretty much a dead heat right now. Sheed better defensively and Dirk playing better offensively. Seems as though they both need “a foot in their as_” to play up to their potential. Avery and LB.

You think there is a possibility of LB returning to the Pistons? Wow, wouldn’t that be something.

Cuz, did you see my girls from Tupelo on the “Duece” last night. Tan went for 25 and Whitmore had 22. Fever are undefeated right now. You need to show them some love.

By HB Ando

May 31, 2006 11:21 AM | Link to this

Abe and THL, I’m not calling for them to be contenders after this summer. I’m saying there’s no good excuse not to assemble the pieces necessary to compete, this summer. From all reports, it’s a shake-it-up summer for potential player movement. We’ve got cap space, Al and maybe Childress to trade and the fifth pick to work with. We only need a point guard and one or two big men to have the pieces in place. Like any team, it will take a year or two, especially with so many young guys, to fully develop the chemistry of the team. But there is no excuse to go into next season with glaring holes in both the backcourt and frontcourt, as we did all of last season. Not addressing those holes last season was only excusable in the context that you don’t want to mortgage the future for a short term fix. But there are multiple ways of addressing those holes this summer, that don’t mortgage the future, so there’s no good excuse for a repeat of last season. And with ownership losing money, to an apathetic fan base (rightfully so, as why should anyone pay money to see a basketball team that only fills 3 of the requisite starting roles on it’s team), they can’t really, seemingly, afford to ignore those issues this season. Not if they want to sell some tickets. That is the point I’m trying to make.

By honest abe

May 31, 2006 11:28 AM | Link to this

no argument here……except for the fact that i dont’ really mind if we have a gaping hole at the pg spot….i think we can make do with what we have, i don’t want to try to just fill a position because we think we have a need…. i.e. overpay a free agent…give up too much in a trade…pick a pg too high in the draft…

i just don’t agree with everyone’s perception that we MUST get a good pg this year.. i think we MUST shore up our frontcourt though..

By Steve B.

May 31, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

1rst ANDO your the one to talk. The Cle thing pushes my point Larry wanted out he was going to jump ship 1 way or another. 2nd know who started it and read what’s in print before you choose a side. No one is going to kick my a*. I’m with on saying it to some one’s face but do you actually support your boy stuffing words into my mouth when it’s right in front of you. Me calling him A lier read it today it’s true it’s been true for a long time. So before you call me an A-hole examine yourself. As I said a couple if weeks back I’m cool with drawing a line and standing on one side of it but you and your boy have to respect that line as well and know when you cross it. It’s funny the only 2 people on this site I have problems with are FLASH and ANDO.

By SBnSC

May 31, 2006 12:20 PM | Link to this

Like it was said before, the AI deal could either a horrible disappointment or an awesome addition. We’ll never be able to know how it would ultimately affect the hawks but I guess it’s something we’ll have to wait and see. Regarding our draft, I believe we shouldn’t be too overly-concerned with drafting the “Best PG in the draft” (m.williams) Instead I think the hawks should try and go after Chris Duhon of the bulls in a sign and trade with Al Harrington. (obviously there would be more stipulations in that trade) But I believe the Hawks would fluorish with someone like Duhon at point. He’s a proven PG and is not a ball hog, and has the ability to create for his teammates and for himself. He would be a steal because he’s been over-shadowed by Heinrich and Gordon. As for our 5th pick, although this is sort of a stretch, I think we should try to grab someone like Sheldon Williams. He’s a pounder and an awesome defensive big man which is something the hawks definitely don’t have. He would fill in great as the PF. Some might say that he’s not superstar material, but I also think you should consider that he’s one of those players that teams won’t trade either because he is so solid at his position. With our 2nd rd. pick, I think the hawks should try and pick up someone like Dee Brown, if he’s still available. He’s lightning quick and has 4 years experience under his belt. Thoughts?

By honest abe

May 31, 2006 12:31 PM | Link to this

sbnsc…read the past five months of blogs and you will see that every player you just mentioned has been discussed at least a million time and probably will be bantered around some more before the draft…but you will find everyone’s thought’s in prior blogs..

By Steve B.

May 31, 2006 12:41 PM | Link to this

Dose anyone think if PHX beats Dallas that they have A chance against Mia?

By honest abe

May 31, 2006 12:55 PM | Link to this

i think that out of the 4 teams left any combination of the 4 would make a very entertaining finals…obviously there is a very large contrast in styles…from the east to the west…if it is phx vs miami…i don’t think shaq would be able to keep up with the pace of the game…

i have been doubting phx since rd 1..i had LA beating them in the first round..but this is a resilient, very well coached bunch…and now i wouldn’t be surprised to see the either lose to dallas or win the whole thing…

By Samuel

May 31, 2006 01:22 PM | Link to this

Not exactly honest. Pace is usually set by the opponent’s defense,rebounding and shot selection. Eventhough Dallas has gotten somewhat better, they still leave a lot to be desired. Miami is not really a jump shooting team so you won’t get those long rebounds which lead to fast breaks. Payton will jam the heck out of Nash. Wheather of not Shaq stays out of foul trouble, which would be hard since he would more than likely be guarding Diaw, would determine that winner.

Also, who’s gonna even remotely contend with Shaq on the defensive end for Pheonix? I think Dallas and Miami would be a better series with Diop and Dampier but I certainly am not going to count out the “M-V-P” and the Suns. Where you at ATF?

And to be honest with you. I haven’t really counted out the Pistons YET, although they do seem to be a team in disarray. The fat lady will definately be in the building tonight.

By honest abe

May 31, 2006 01:43 PM | Link to this

point taken sam…however i haven’t seen anyone be able to dictate how/when the suns run…although i realize that the playoffs are a completely different animal in terms of adjustments and half court execution…but phx scores and they score alot on everyone…while miami hasn’t proved they are a very good defensive team…phx won both games during the regular season 111-93, 107-98…for detroit to beat them they had to outscore them both times….scoring in the low 100’s…so i think phx dictates how the game is played..that’s why i think shaq would have a hard time constantly switching on pick and rolls..running out to guard the perimeter since all their bigs can shoot from 10-15 ft…and constantly running up and down…one last thing if you noticed sometimes miami tries to run as well..if they get in a track meet with phx they will lose!

By Kappy

May 31, 2006 02:11 PM | Link to this

To everyone who thinks we got screwed in the Diaw/JJ deal: Deal with it. JJ is our franchise guy. Diaw is a role player who has flourished in phoenix. and anyone who disagrees that diaw isnt a product of his system is wrong.

Ponder the following: Larry Bird gives up on James Jones. He flourishes in phoenix. Philly and Utah give up on raja bell. he flourishes in phoenix. The Bulls give up on Tim Thomas and he also flourishes. anyone notice a pattern?????? And lets remember, Boston gave up on JJ several years ago and didnt get much in return. You think the hawks are kicking themselves? This stuff happens in the nba, and to say that we got ripped off in a deal that brought us our best player, well, youre wrong.

that is all.

By Samuel

May 31, 2006 02:26 PM | Link to this

Yes,

But as we have seen these last few games. Miami is a completely different team from the regular season. I’m not saying they would win but I believe that Riley is too good of a coach not to make the needed ajustments to win a series.

Detriot is doing quite a bit of pick n roll themselves and Shaq is handling it quite well but you’re right in that he would have a much tougher time as Diaw is a much better offensive player than Big Ben.

While i’m on that subject(Ben Wallace), have you ever seen such a great player so frustrated and taken out of his game. That “Hack-A-Ben” has GOT HIS GOAT. If I was Flip, I would counter with “Hack-A-Tone” and “Hack-A-Shaq” and one up Pat. This could get interesting.

What do yall think about Riley suggesting that a rule change. I personally don’t like the “Hack-A-Whoever” myself. I think at least it should be an intentional foul, since it is intentional.

Gotta Go. “Gotta go see that main bout a dog”.

By St. Bernard

May 31, 2006 03:41 PM | Link to this

Come what may with draft picks and free agents, I think we build around JJ, Marvin and Smith.

I can’t imagine Aldridge falling to us, and I also have no idea of the value that Harrington has with other teams.

Give me two big guys with life and a pg to drive this sportscar that we’re building and I’m happy. I’m with Ando, there is absolutely no excuse that we don’t have at least these three players added to the team through the draft, a sign and trade with Al, or FA. There’s no excuse.

By St. Bernard

May 31, 2006 03:46 PM | Link to this

Does anyone think Al with the number 5 would buy us Aldridge, Duhon and maybe a second rounder or the second of Chicago’s first rounders?

By Steve B.

May 31, 2006 04:07 PM | Link to this

Not A bad idea ST. Bernard, it could work.

By Malone

May 31, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

St B — Probably just Aldridge and Duhon.

Where’s Sekou? Where’s Basketball Princess?

By doc

May 31, 2006 04:34 PM | Link to this

st b, sorry to burst your balloon and others trying to deal al before the draft for choices or picks. dont believe the hawks can do anything with al until he is signed and the hawks cant do that before the draft. i guess technically he isnt their property right now and only their property if HE agrees to a sign and trade. so, what you are suggesting is just speculation at best that will only be misleading at worst to those that think something of value can be gained from al at this point. it will only encourage others to bring up their suggestions or continue to bash bk for not doing what he cant do. i am sure someone will chime up after the draft, “why didnt we trade al for a draft choice and a player, that bk is an idiot for not doing something to gain value in the draft?” hopefully, it is not you or steve b or malone as they followed your lead.

By gb

May 31, 2006 05:05 PM | Link to this

kappy if boris is product of the system, what does that say fot the hawks system of 26 wins.

By gb

May 31, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

kappy if boris is product of the system, what does that say for the hawks system of 26 wins.

By cowa

May 31, 2006 05:36 PM | Link to this

There is no sense in talking about Al for any draft picks unless it is in 2007 or beyond.

I know Al likes Chicago, but from looking at it from a more realistic perspective (or at lest I’m pretending it is), why would Chicago want Al, unless he was to play PF? They have Deng and Nocioni already at the 3. Al has stated he wants to play SF again, as he felt out of position at PF. It just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

I was reading today how Orlando wants to move up in the draft to get their hands on either Gay or Roy. They say it’s too difficult to move up more than 3 or 4 spots, and they’re currently at #11. Why wouldn’t we consider Arroyo and #11 for our #5? Arroyo is their back-up behind Nelson, adn either Roy or Gay would start for them. Arroyo may not be the best defender, but he defintely would be better than any of the rookie PG’s, is locked in at $4M a year for the next two years, and is from Georgia. It just seems to make sense to me, and I can’t believe Orlando wouldn’t gofor the chance to solidify their starting line-up. With #11, we can still get either O’Bryant, Simmons, Sheldon Williams, Splitter (if he stays in), a wing player that BK covets, or even trade down with the Knicks or Phoenix and get a 2007 draft pick thrown in (with Phoenix, that is). Just some more thoughts…

By honest abe

May 31, 2006 05:48 PM | Link to this

cowa i think that idea is just grand! :)

By RichieRich

May 31, 2006 06:19 PM | Link to this

HEY COWA, HOW ABOUT ADDING AL HARRINGTON, AND JCHILL IN WITH THAT TRADE, AND ORLANDO ADDING DARKO MILICIC….OF COURSE EVERYTHING COULDN’T BE FINALIZED UNTIL AFTER SIGNING AL HARRINGTON TO A SIGN AND TRADE.

BASICALLY EVERYTHING COULD BE DISCUSSED, AND ON DRAFT NIGHT, WE PICK FOR THEM AND THEY DO LIKEWISE FOR US…..

JUST SOME THOUGHTS UNTIL SEKOU GIVES ANOTHER TOPIC TO DISCUSS.

By koss

May 31, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

Come draft day night, there’s a big chance Toronto will pick PF Tyrus Thomas of LSU a surprise no.1 draft pick ahead of Aldridge and the Italian Bargnani as some have picked to go one and two. He’ll definitely gonna boost his stock as the NBA Draft nears. That is when the NBA finals is over. When a new champion is crown. I swear.

By St. Bernard

May 31, 2006 07:24 PM | Link to this

Doc, Let me clarify. I know we can’t officially deal Al right now. But, there are deals that can be done. Such as drafting for each other and completing the trade afterward, when Al is signed. As far as draft deals go, I’m still hoping to turn our one #5 into two first rounders. Swapping with New Orleans is my hope.

Oh yeah, for whoever suggested that Orlando might deal Darko….well that just doesn’t make sense. There’s no way they want to trade him. And if we’re gonna go after folks that we can’t have from Orlando, I’d rather have Howard. I would even prefer Nelson to Darko.

Sekou, what plans do the Hawks have for working folks out. I can’t find anything anywhere. Hopefully, BK won’t PASS on the draft completely! How funny would that be…”With the 5th pick of the ‘06 draft the Hawks ….PASS!”

By Sekou Smith

June 1, 2006 12:34 AM | Link to this

St. B,

The reason you can’t find out any workout information is because the Hawks don’t share it. And from what I’ve been told, there won’t be any big name workouts conducted until after the pre-draft camp.

As for a new blog topic, we don’t blog on holidays, so that’s why there was nothing new Monday. But I’m coming back Thursday with something anyway. I’ve been debating Boris and his breakout performance this postseason with friends and respected NBA types from around the league during the playoffs and there have been some really interesting thoughts.

But I have something to say about the entire face of the league changing before our very eyes, and I’m wondering what teams are going to get on board and what teams are going to get left behind? Check for the new post Thursday.

By Clyde

June 1, 2006 01:29 AM | Link to this

I’ll answer it for you Sekou. Defensive minded teams will be left behind. The players these days are so good off the dribble that you can’t stop them. You have to be able to outscore teams. FIRE BILLY AND WOODY.

By Kojo

June 1, 2006 02:17 AM | Link to this

Well..I think after years of parody the NBA is establishing powerhouse teams again. Remember in the 90’s when you pretty much knew which teams were going to the playoff’s year after year and compete. With all the turmoil with the Hawks I wonder have they missed the boat. I think 2005 was really their year to get it right…but there’s this nagging feeling that the Hawks are playing catch up because of HUGE missed opportunities to make significant progress. They still don’t have a consistent system or identity. What low rung team can they possibly wrestle the 7/8 seed from?

By doc

June 1, 2006 08:24 AM | Link to this

sam, can you say sweeeeet.

still in the game, going to the beach and dirk’s streak stopped, kurt thomas is reviving, suns legs are fresher with raja hopefully available.

is the air fresher in the past two days or what?

By The Flash

June 1, 2006 10:48 AM | Link to this

Maybe get that insullin pump tested, boy. Wasn’t talkin to you. Talkin to Ando. Unless he is Belkin, then I was talkin to Belkin. Actually, Ando’s command of facts and analytic and creative mind, he could be Belkin. But, Belkin has more of the imp in him. If Belkin had chosen to appear on this blog, I’d have to think he’s Astro. You know stir up his Base (yeah right) by irratating them.

Really enjoy doing this, but have some heavy lifting to do for a while. Hopefully, my boy will come out on top and this franchise’s future will be brightened (in my view). Later.

By doc

June 1, 2006 12:17 PM | Link to this

later flash, peace.

By KRao

June 1, 2006 02:06 PM | Link to this

Honestly, I hope we stay with pick #5 and draft Randy Foye…he is absolutely electric and regardless of questions on his ability to be a true PG, the man can simple take over games. He is far better than Williams overall, and pretty darn close to him in distributing the ball. HE has even been compared to Billups/Gordon. The only other player I would be satisfied with Is Roy at #5. But Foye should be our pick…

By Dave Nelson

June 1, 2006 02:34 PM | Link to this

A.I. is the ticket for the Atlanta Hawks. I also believe that with he and Joe J in the backcourt it would enhance the play of the supporting cast. I believe everyones game would step up a huge notch, and the guys would want to play. A.I. is the I.V. the hawks need.

By Basketball Princess

June 1, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

Malone, I’m here. I got a lot going on. What’s Up?

By cowa

June 1, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

Just caught up on some blogs, and saw that some guy whose name won’t be mentioned had suggested a week ago that Orlando send #11 and rights to Fran Vazquez to ATL for #5 (even though I don’t think the order had been determined yet). If Vazquez was serious about coming over, this would make a lot of sense. Atlanta could still take a big at #11, small with a Rondo, Foye or Williams (although the last two may be gone), or even one of BK types in Carney or Brewer. My choice would be to draft a big and go after a PG in FA (James or Jackson).

If Thomas or Aldridge actually make their way to us at #5, all bets are off unless O’Bryant is still on the board when New Orleans picks and we swap out Thomas for #12 & #15. In that case, we should take O’Bryant and Simmons or Saer Sene for the future.

Ando, I love your proposed trade with LA of Odom & Bynum for Al & #5 (Roy)? Odom is a BK guy if ever there was one. We’d have to play him at the 4 like we did with Al, and Bynum could be a fixture in the middle for years after he matures a little. We would still have plenty of cap space to go after a PG, although with Odom it might change the type we could go after. So far, this is definitely my favorite scenario that actually could have some teeth to it.

By St. Bernard

June 1, 2006 05:43 PM | Link to this

Here’s the problem with the L.A. idea, if we bring in Odom, we still have a log jam at the 3/4 spot. I like Odom alot and I really like Bynum, but unless we’re planning on running Marvin at the two, I’m not sure how Odom fits. I truly believe if we can get Marvin, Josh S. and JJ on the floor together and give them maximum minutes, they can develop into a corp worth having. So, why not just trade the #5 for Bynum and the Lakers first round pick? Save Al for getting a pg and use the low first that the Lakers have for a big or pg. There will definitely be a pg around at that time.

By HB Ando

June 1, 2006 08:10 PM | Link to this

Here’s the real question (or one of many real questions): Now rumors are that Toronto would like to deal down and take Roy or M. Williams. What about #5 and Childress for #1 and we take Aldridge? I know that all of us have differing opinions on Aldridge, so your answers to that idea will obviously land along those lines. But if Billy likes Aldridge, and he’s a guy we would want out of this draft, then that’s a trade that makes sense, and we can clearly live without Childress (which isn’t to demean his skills, but to acknowledge the log jam of swing men we have on this roster). I believe this would make sense for all involved, if Toronto wants to move down and we covet Aldridge. Of course the Lakers wanting to move up would give us the opportunity to move down and pick up a player. I don’t think they give up a young, talented center in Bynum, just to move up and get Roy. Probably have to throw in Childress. The fact that Al would likely be amenable to a sign-and-trade with the Lakers creates additional possibilities to pull of a bigger, post-draft trade with LA.

But I’d be happy to move Childress for the rights to draft Aldridge. ‘Course he’s been my choice since last summer as the target for our draft.

By HB Ando

June 1, 2006 08:13 PM | Link to this

You know, let’s modify that plan, as Childress has too much to offer just to swap 5 slots. Let’s have Toronto throw in Jose Calderon, who showed this season that he’s a very skilled distributor of the rock. Toronto is said to be willing to move him, so seems like a swap of picks and Childress and Calderon addresses our need for a mobile big and a pass first point guard all in one fell swoop.

By RichieRich

June 1, 2006 08:59 PM | Link to this

Sounds like a plan Ando……I agree

I would also like to somehow get portlands other first rd pick(#30) and also their 1st in the second rd(31 overall)….I think that there will be some talent at these selections(bench players and depth)

What about trading Al Harrington to NY for Jackie Butler and one of their 1st rd picks(#20 or #29)

We need some more big’s on this team, Ican’t see going into next season with John Edwards, and Batista as our only backups. I would gladly take some young athletic big’s on this team as backups, rather than these 2 stiffs that are driving away with the BRINKS TRUCK(3 million dollars for 3pts a game combined….great pickups BILLY).

By Melvin

June 1, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

Lets modify the above trade some more. I think childress is a great player for us off the bench. Let’s keep him and sent T.Lue/#5 pick and Donta Smith to the Raptors for Aldridge…

By Melvin

June 1, 2006 10:30 PM | Link to this

The should have been Raptors send us Aldridge and Calderon for #5 pick, T.Lue and Donta Smith.

By doc

June 1, 2006 11:33 PM | Link to this

ok ando, the dirk put on a show tonight. you know he cant do it again, rigth? welll, maybe he can, cudos dude.

By Malone

June 1, 2006 11:52 PM | Link to this

Basketball Princess always has the most interesting posts and seems to have a very “mysterious” air about “her.”

Let us know what trade winds are blowing, and please assure us that Iverson isn’t coming to Atlanta.

By doc

June 2, 2006 12:21 AM | Link to this

ando, i like your follow up offer to the raptors, you are right the first would be giving up too much on our part but ofers something thatthey might see of value. however, did you feel a bit beleagured, like a gm might feel if it were for real when there immediately is about three or four modifications that follow suggesting that someone else is going to value our trash for thir gold.

melvin do you think anyone really wants donta smith for a legitimate big and that lue is that valuable?

now richie, do you think portland is in such financial trouble that the portland franchise is looking for someone to give picks to and the hawks are the lucky reci[pents, what are you willing to give up and really think they would want; do you realize we cant do anything with al until after we sign him and that is after the draft, so the knicks draft choices for this year are not available for al.

By cowa

June 2, 2006 12:41 AM | Link to this

Melvin, if you were Toronto, would you take that deal? I didn’t think so. Before throwing out ideas, think of it from the other team’s perspective. Toronto needs 3 things: a starting PG to replace James if he walks, a C to replace the garbage they have their now and make sure Bosh plays PF, and cap relief. Lue and Donta make more than Calderon, so they would be adding to the cap rather than reducing it. Heck, I wouldn’t trade Calderon for Lue and Donta straight up if I were Toronto.

Calderon would be a great fit as a short term stop gap at the point. Good D, not looking to shoot a great deal, but can’t hit the long ball. Long term we need a PG like Calderon that can also hit the three to open up the lanes for JJ, Josh and Marvin.

Now, regarding the LA deal including Odom. Odom, when not playing in the triangle offense, can play the 2, 3 or 4, in addition to the short lived “point forward” position. That would basically make a four man rotation for three spots, more than enough minutes for everyone. Getting Odom would make Childress more expendable in trying to secure another piece to the puzzle (draft pick in 07, PG or a big).

I still have hope that LB stays on in NY, and that they would move Frye and Rose for Al, but the chances of that get slimmer by the day (sorry Sam).

One last thought. I didn’t get to see Seattle play this year, but they have some guys who might be helpful in Ridnour, Swift and Petro. Swapping out #5 for #10 and one of these guys might be a thought as well. I know Sekou had brought up Ridnour a long time ago, but I don’t have the energy to go back and see if looked at the other guys. anybody have thoughts on these guys?

By Melvin

June 2, 2006 01:35 AM | Link to this

Cowa and Doc, The trade ideal for Toronto which i would like bringing Aldridge to Atlanta but giving up Childress and our number #5 pick(which could be Marcus Williams) is too much in my opinion. We could possibly be giving the Raptors their starting backcourt of the future. Keep in mind that Toronto is very high on M.Williams from Uconn and would prefer to trade down to draft him which should say alot about their evaluation of Calderon who couldn’t fine decent playing time behind Mike James (who is a FA that we could sign this summer). I prefer to keep Childress and our draft position and draft Aldridge if he’s available and signed/trade for veteran PG or draft M.Williams from Uconn if aldridge is not on the board. By the way, Marcus Williams will be good PG in the league. Mark my word….

By Melvin

June 2, 2006 01:42 AM | Link to this

Also, i would hope that Toronto would like the trade offer b/c they would have a chance to draft M.Williams who they convet and recieve a good veteran pg in T.Lue schooled the rook and i threw in Donta (who has shown some flashes) b/c Toronto could used another wing player.

By doc

June 2, 2006 07:29 AM | Link to this

melvin what do they do with james? not sign him and risk antagonizing bosh who they may do if bargani is their preference, anyway and one of the early speculations for their pick. lue is not the guy to run your team unless you want to pick early in the draft the next year. lue is a backup guard. i just dont think that lue and donta are going to get you the first pick in the draft. to say a guy spent the season in developmental ball and then maybe had one good game after call up “flashes” are all an oversell of donta. ok maybe he is the next diaw :-) but as yet his flash has been the size of a very small match.

i agree with the point that you have to put up something to get something and just argue that you havent offfered anything close to a first in the draft with your offer, you will have to back it up with some numbers or press of how these guys are of value before i see it. i mean donta is probably not on the radar screen for the hawks next year if they get two draft picks that can play as well as last years and certainly if two or three free agents are brought into the fold to cover salary minimums or holes in the hawks’ makeup that everyone acknowledges are there.

gee ando, melvin seems to think you are soft at the negotiation table, maybe like bk, willing to give too much up to get a needed fixture down low.

By cowa

June 2, 2006 09:54 AM | Link to this

Doc, I do thnk Mike James is fleeing Toronto no matter how much Bosh wants him there. Toronto is acting like he is gone already by some of their quotes. Could be smokescreens, but I’m not sure who they are trying to fool except their own players if it is! I’m sure they’ll look for a S&T for James (to Houston for Rafer Alston?).

Melvin, the question I directly ask in your trade scenario is: If you were Toronto, would you trade Calderon for Lue and Donta? This doesn’t even touch on anyone considering trading the #1 pick for the #5 pick straight up!

If we all feel that to trade down 5 or so spots from the #5 pick and we would want a potential starter in addition, why would the team with the #1 pick not want the same (or realistically more)?

By doc

June 2, 2006 10:10 AM | Link to this

cowa, agree, most do flee toronto and with a new gm there is a new sheriff and a new vision that we can only speculate on based on how he put together peices in phoenix. remember who you are now dealing with melvin, if he took our shirt last summer getting diaw like some advocate then he aint going to return the favor by getting nothing for something which is my argument. sometimes you also have to consider who you are dealing with before you make a deal.

we ALL sit back and throw out these ideas that dont even come close to reality and expect no one to question them and then sit back and microanalyze any movement made by the real guy in charge. basically, if you throw an idea out there better be ready to substantiate it without taking it personal as that is what we expect of the real guy in charge. it is part of the blog game, just remember it aint personal but supposed to be fun unless you got too much juice to burn then i would rather you take it out on me that your family or dog.

By RichieRich

June 2, 2006 10:49 AM | Link to this

Doc, you could agree to a trade in principle with NY, and just have them pick the player u want…….It has happened before.

By RichieRich

June 2, 2006 10:58 AM | Link to this

As far as the pick’s from portland go, if they get rid of Darius Miles(to NY), or Zach Randolph, they don’t have any scoring forwards left on their team. This is why i brought up these pick’s, as with the same NY trade scenario i brought up, agree in principle for a trade of Al Harrington to portland for these pick’s and they pick the player’s we want(hopefully 2 big’s to replace our 2 stiffs off the bench)…….just some thought’s

I don’t know Portland’s cap situation.

By Kappy

June 2, 2006 11:00 AM | Link to this

OK—ESPN is reporting that the toronto raptors are working out Jay Williams. A bunch to discuss here. First of all, is Jay an unrestricted free agent? Can the hawks work him out?

Also, if Jay williams isnt our guy, and toronto gets him, surely they wont need both mike james and calderon. Maybe we can swoop in there and get either of those guys for pennies on the dollar.

By Basketball Princess

June 2, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

Kappy,Jay’s contract was settled out after his accident. He is a free agent

By RichieRich

June 2, 2006 11:34 AM | Link to this

WHERE IS SEKOU AT……ANY NEW UPDATES?……..WHO ARE THE HAWKS WORKING OUT? POST SOMETHING, SOME RUMORS, SOMETHING.

By RC

June 2, 2006 10:58 PM | Link to this

Im going to say a few things about this whole A.I. thing. I myself am an A.I. fan. Always has been, always will be. I think he will be a nice addition to the Hawks. I read a lot of your comments & I can see SOME of your concerns. Most of the negative comments are coming from people who probably couldnt walk a millimeter in A.Is shoes. Nobodys perfect. Look at Kobe. Everyone thought Kobe was the new face of the NBA & look at his situation. Kobe’s nice tho. However I am a little concerned about AIs health in the future. As of right now, hes not showing ANY signs of slowing down. You people should not blame the failure of the 76ers on A.I. alone. MJ, the best baller of all time, went a long time in Chitown b4 he started to really win games. I think a lot of this falls on the shoulders of the office personnel & the big wigs for the 76ers. Look at KG. The reason the Twolves are not winning is not because of KG. KG produces every night like Iverson. They have not surrounded KG with the proper team mates/coaches. Sam-I-am, Spree, Candiman, & Trent was the best they had. Are any on those player still with the Twolves? A.I. has come along way. I hate that he’s done some things in the PAST that OBVIOUSLY will 4ever haunt him. “PRACTICE?” I agree he does take a beating every night. He is 30. Those would be my main concerns. The other stuff, thug this & that, is bs. If thats the case, the NBA is full of thugs. Y do you think they started this dress code thing? Where do you people think most of these afro-american players come from? From ashy to classy. From nobody to somebody. Notorious BIG said it best about the only ways to get out of the hood. “Either you slangin crack rock, or you got a wicked jump shot.” Thats reality for a lot, BUT NOT ALL, of young afro-americans. Put A.I. on the SUNS, SPURS, MAVS, or some of the elite teams & he would dominate. How could he not. Because of his playing style, he’s gonna draw the entire defense to him at all times. As soon as Kobe realizes that & he will, the Lakers will be more dominate. Kobe should average a double-double per game because of the attention that he demands. Lakers have a set chemistry that A.I. needs to win. A Hall of Fame coach, a triple threat, & role-players. Maybe playing the 1 is not his BEST position. Eventhough I sure a lot of coaches wish they could get almost 8 assists a game from there point guards. AI his ranked #8 in assist per game & #2 in scoring, 7th in steals(D-fence!), 1rst in minutes. TEAM PLAYER? BALL HOG? Come on people. Yeah he shoots/scores a lil much for a PG, but look at Gilbert Arenas he’s #4 in scoring & with less APG. Who else on AI team is going to shoot & create shots for themselves & others. Maybe Iggy thats it. Yeah he may have had some PAST issues. Remember all the critisism Lebron got his rookie year. With the Hummer incident & becoming a father at a young age, etc. MJs gambling issues etc. These people are superstars, but they are humans first & like most humans SHOULD, you live, you learn, you move on. Give the guy a break!! The Hawks should see how much they have to give up for AI & make the best desicion based upon the direction they’d like their team to go. But if we do get A.I. I’ll surely be at most home games. Should be exciting. OK I’M DONE NOW!!