By Jamaaliver

April 17, 2006 04:13 PM | Link to this

Get your John Edwards jerseys while you can……..they’ll be discontinued at season’s end.

By Harry Hawk

April 17, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

I’ve got my soon-to-be John Edwards yellow Hawks throwback jersey on right now. Edwards, Ivey, Grundy, Donta Smith and Al Harrington, “…never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.”

By gb

April 17, 2006 04:19 PM | Link to this

will eveyone who said the the awks would win 30 or more about 5 or six weeks back please take a bow today?

By A Real Fan

April 17, 2006 04:22 PM | Link to this

I want to hear what the scouts had to say!

By The Flash

April 17, 2006 04:26 PM | Link to this

Sekou, any of those guys have any insight about Delk, why he didn’t play here and why BK let him go for nothing when he clearly is capable of a big time contribution? At least Detroit thinks so. And, do any of those guys see the “weakness” of the bench being a function of the offensive system seeming to be a work in progress. Man up, Lue, Delk, and Salem ain’t chopped liver coming off the bench, and JC I see as a solid, solid six at the 2 and 3. MW is definitely a work in progress; I believe that he would have contributed more if the system on offense was more fluid and created better opportunities. Doubt any of the experts would be ready to trade him. So, we’re back to where we were when I came to this blog—couple of bigs and a point. I add something more fluid on offense. Tell the boys to keep their eyes open; this team is coming; many of the others are going. That’s the story.

By mountain_jim

April 17, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

I still want to know why they refused to play Delk all year but would not release him, and if they don’t get anything for Al in a sign and trade, why Billy let this happen.

And why Billy has yet to grant Sekou (appreciated your work this season) an interview to explain the above.

mj

mj

By Astro Joe

April 17, 2006 04:45 PM | Link to this

Sorry, Sekou, but I need to address Ando from the previous blog.

Ando, there is a HUGE difference between trading for Jameer and trading for Jack. One has delivered results and the other has not. I am okay trading Childress, heck, I’d even trade Childress for Nelson. The point I made is that Nelson has demonstrated that his #20 selection was bad, he has demonstrated that he is better than that. Jack has demonstrated, well, Jack. So why am I trading a known asset for Jack?

Also, last time I checked, starters typically do not play 48 minutes and 82 games each year. Teams win with depth. If nothing else, we have learned that Batista, Edwards, Thomas, Lang, and other bodies with a pulse do not adequately measure to the standard of NBA depth. (I think this is what Sekou is delicately alluding to in this new blog).

Salim, Lue and Childress provide us with valuable assets off the bench. Childress plays 30 minutes a game and finishes probably 95% of the Hawks games. You want to “project” a NBDL player into that important role after acquiring Jack?

Don’t do the old “blog bait and switch bit with me”. Trading Childress for Jack is stupid. Trading Childress for Jameer is valid but was not the initial proposition. And Jameer is a perfect example of what I was describing, a lower-selected player who has proven himself. To use some old math if A=B and B=C then A=C. According to your way of thinking Ando, a Jameer for Jack trade would make sense for Orlando. HUH?

By The Flash

April 17, 2006 04:54 PM | Link to this

The Astro/Ando debate is a real interesting one. Astro, a few things to think about. Jack was on a team with two other bona fide point guards, both of whom on any given night could really play. Nelson was on a team with no other point guard (to me, Franchise is and always has been a 2).

Jack has had a rough start. But, he is 6’4”, a terrific athlete who is well muscled. As a rebounder/defender with his offensive upside, I, along with Ando, really like the guy. Nelson is great but he’ll never be 6’4”. I wouldn’t trade JC for either of them, however; JC I keep!

By buddy

April 17, 2006 05:09 PM | Link to this

gb,

Not sure what I’m taking a bow for, but I predicted 30 wins before the season starts (just lost a schlotsky’s bet with a co-worker on it). The Hawks had so many bad losses this year they could have easily had 5 more wins with a little respect from officials and fewer bad quarters. I think the Hawks’ improvement can be traced to the development of Josh Smith and the additions of Joe Johnson and Zaza Pachulia (obviously a better interior player than the late Jason Collier), but the areas of improvement could not save the Hawks from the deficiencies in 4th quarter ball handling (paging Tony Delk?) and interior muscle (Zaza is by far a bargain but probably the first big man off the bench on any contending team).

By Russ

April 17, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

This franchie continues to flounder from ownership, GM, and coaching staff. IMO BK does not have a clue, he did nothing in Memphis but stiff the hawks in tading Shareef for Gasol, I guess that was a good thing. I have followed the Hawks since 1977 so I do have some experience with this team. Tey are in the worst position I have ever seen and I don’t see things getting any better. If you want to brag about going from a 13 win season to 28 or whatever YOUR blind! The hawks do not need more young talent they need to bring in some veteran talent. If BK drafts Rudy Gay I will peronally come to Phillips and remove him myself!

By Astro Joe

April 17, 2006 05:20 PM | Link to this

Ando, my thought about trading a top 5 pick for the 2 first round picks from the Hornets goes directly to the ownership fiasco which you refuse to acknowledge. If we can get 2 players (like Rondo and Armstrong) instead of one Tyrus Thomas for the SAME SALARY PRICE, then how is that moronic? Sounds like a smart business move to me.

Trading for Al will require bringing back $8-10M in salary. While I would HOPE that we can do that, the current ownership debacle suggests that may not happen.

Your plan tends to revolve around one perfect world, where owners have money and there is only 1 right answer for every question. Anything short of Aldridge and Mike James would be considered a failure in your eyes. I live in a world where you MUST improvise. Contingency planning is what some smart people call it. I want this team to be competitive next year, and in order to get there, one needs to consider many different options. Spending the owners money on a top 5 pick and a free agent that will cost a minimum of $8M in addition to bringing back another $8-$10M for Al is one unlikely approach for owners struggling to choose what to eat for lunch (FROM THE DOLLAR MENU). I’m looking at other options that do not require yet another 25 win season and the fantasy that Ogden will fall in our laps. Excuse me for having a plan that goes beyond the obvious.

By buddy

April 17, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

End of season evaluations:

Backcourt

Joe Johnson has emerged as a legitimate star in the league, one of about 5 players in the NBA to average over 20 points and 6 assists. Among thos players, JJ has about half the trips to the free throw line that the other players on that list command. In order to become an MVP candidate, JJ is going to have to attack the basket more and draw more fouls next season. A little respect and recognition from the refs could help his cause next year, and with an improved roster and departure from the league basement for the Hawks, he just might get it.

Josh Childress is a better Stacey Augmon. Although not as accomplished on the defensive end (and posessing the same limitations on his jump shot form), Chills has emerged as a hustle player with basketball smarts who plays hard on both ends and plays team ball. A backup at two (where Augmon played most of his career as a Hawk, despite his lack of a jump shot) and the three, JC has proven his value as an energy reserve. As with JJ, needs to hit the weight room in the offseason to put on a few pounds of muscle.

Tyronn Lue spoiled his campaign to be the league’s best backup point guard by once again playing starter’s minutes. A defensive liability due to his lack of size, Lue also shares alot of the blame for the Hawks’ terrible fourth quarter ball handling. He’s more of a scorer than a half court catalyst. However, Lue won the Hawks some games with his scoring prowess. Lue is a keeper if for no other reason than that he chose to stay with the Hawks and help develop this young team rather than return to the Lakers at Phil Jackson’s request. Lue should be kept under contract as long as he wants to say, provided his salary demands don’t exceed his production. As with Joe Johnson, who chose the Hawks over other teams, Lue has elevated the team’s reputation around the league by deciding to stick around. Loyalty to players like that is paramount to a team’s ability to attract key free agents.

Salim Stoudamire may go down in NBA history as one of the all time second round steals. His 9.9 ppg average for his rookie year indicates he could play a Vinnie Johnson-type role off the bench on a contending team. I’m not concerned about his attitude issues because it’s evident he wants to win and I feel Hawks management has dealt with the problems perfectly. They slapped him with a suspension to let him know where he stood with the team, but didn’t call him out in the media or try to make him look bad as Woody’s mentor Larry Brown would have done.

Aside from these four main assets in the backcourt, the Hawks other guards have failed to distinguish themselves at the NBA level despite the availability of minutes on an understaffed roster. Donta Smith, Anthony Grundy and Royal Ivey may yet develop into consistent contributors, but what the Hawks really need is a veteran starting point guard. A free agent acquisition at this position would give the Hawks tremendous depth and talent at both guard positions next year and solve the lingering issue of being able to take care of the ball and run the offense in the fourth quarter.

By 21298OK

April 17, 2006 06:13 PM | Link to this

We have two established NBA players on this team and (from what I’ve heard), one is probably leaving. It’s gonna be tough climbing out of this hole when other teams are also improving. I’ll keep pulling for the Hawks though…

By Adam

April 17, 2006 06:31 PM | Link to this

If the Hawks can get a viable big man then, I imagine, they can start Williams and Josh Smith at the forward positions next year, bringing J-Chill in off the bench. If they can replace Harrington with a center, or a strong 6’11 type power forward, the Hawks would probably improve far more than most folks realize. Harrington’s minutes and points are easily replaceable - and this will be the case increasingly as Marvin matures and gets more minutes - for even though Harrington is the #2 guy here, he should probably never be more than the 3rd best option on a contender.

Obviously, as everyone here and around the league knows, getting a true point would make just about everything better. Joe Johnson has shown that he can take over the point when needed, just as he did with Phoenix, and Lue is also a serviceable backup. But oh how the Hawks need a floor general. With the development of Williams, Childress, and Smith, and with the additions of a point guard and strong big man who can immediately contribute, the Hawks can challenge for a playoff spot as soon as next season.

After all, a winning record would probably get a team the 5 seed this year.

By HB Ando

April 17, 2006 06:57 PM | Link to this

Joe, please refrain from characterizing my comments because you’re inaccurate when you do so. No where did I say Aldridge or James. In fact, I said trade Al or Chill for any point guard that is capable of succeeding in the starting role for this team. I said it did not have to be Jack. It was you who said that it was ridiculous to trade a 22 for a 6. You did not clarify that statement at the time, so don’t try and revise it to defend your position now.

You still haven’t addressed my contention that Childress will never project to start for this moribund franchise. How convenient. The fact that you’d trade Childress for Nelson, almost as a begrudging agreement belies the fact that it’s a no brainer. Nelson will start in this league for the next 5-10 years. Childres? Sixth man on the, arguably, worst franchsie in the NBA. I never suggested Childress’ sixth man role would be replaced by our existing roster options. I said that swing men in this league are largely interchangeable. Easiest position to fill. And trading Childress for a potential starter is good general management. Because he can’t start here. If he was good enough to be the difference maker in our 24 win season, he’s good enough to start. All I’m saying is that if you can’t crack this starting lineup, your trade bait.

Rondo and Armstrong? Rather than any of the top five players, Aldridge, Thomas, Morrison, Gay or Bargnani? Find me one credible scout who will go on record as saying either Rondo or Armstrong projects to start in the NBA next year and I’ll buy the next five rounds. It has been you, above all others, who has cried for a less patient time frame for a competitive product. Any of those five, which we will get the opportunity to pick from, would surely be tradeable for an immediate starter at the one or 4/5. The players you like all come with serious questions about their games. That doesn’t give you pause?

If we didn’t have Al as a realistic sign and trade, or cap space and playing time to sign a projected starter at one of the positions of need, then your plan might have some merit. But trying to fill our holes with two players who aren’t anywhere near ready to contribute doesn’t solve anything. We’ve got three avenues to fill 2-3 slots. Why would you give up one of the top five players coming out to get two also rans who can’t help us next year?

Finally, your financial assessment is broken as well. Sure two cheaps equal one top-five, but ownership hasn’t suspended operations. Face it, if things are so bad that your two for one option is financially necessary, we’re all wasting our time giving thought to the future of the Hawks. They’re done. And since that’s not likely, then your position, predicated on some bizarre penny pinching necessisty, is obscure and pointless.

Joe, I have respect for your basketball IQ, as I do for most of the other regulars. And, though I post my opinions with a vengeance that misleads about my actual nature, I do not harbor any delusions that I’m right all the time. Sekou asked me, as I’m sure he asked other regulars, to keep things fired up. I do my best. But more and more, I get the sense that you decided that we are engaged in a fight to the death for blog supremecy. And in doing so, you’ve given up some of your insight in exchange for trying to prove you know more than me. We agreed long ago that we’d do it differntly, given the opportunity, so walk your path. But you’ve taken to calling me out, so don’t be surprised when I respond in kind. Trading a top-five pick for the rights to the likes of Rondo and Armstrong is moronic. I said it earlier, and I’ll say it until I run out of breath. And keeping Childress, as opposed to moving him for a potential starting point guard, is equally moronic.

The only untouchables on this team should be Johnson, either Josh or Marvin (I’d be willing to trade either for an equally talented young big man, who is a true 4/5), and, for the time being, unless we could obtain 3 viable big men in the off-season, Zaza (especially given his more than reasonable contract and age).

You sound silly suggesting that my plans revolve around a perfect world. I’ve spent the last seven months calling management, ownership and the franchise the most imperfect in the NBA. I called for help to get this team into the 8th seed race and save our pick from Phoenix, or a trade of Al, to optimize our draft position and develop Marvin. They did neither, instead landing in the no-mans’ land I predicted their inaction would create. When mock drafts spent the first three months of the season calling Gay the first pick, I stuck with Aldridge. Whether we get him, or whether he’s even the first pick, he’s the guy that best fits the needs of the this team. Has been since last summer.

I identiified the lack of planning that sees us hurtling towards another missed playoff next season, handing a lottery pick, in what most know will be a tremendously talented draft pool, to the Suns. We had control of the final cost for obtaining JJ, and we WILL end up spending more than we had to, due to mismanagement and ineptitude.

My perfect world scenario hopes for another summer of disappointment from the front office, where we repeat another season as bottom dwellers and actually have a shot at Oden, if he should even decided to come out, Durant or several other future stars if he does not. I look at the names you subscribe to, and I can’t help but laugh at the notion that you think adding these folks will build a playoff team in Atlanta. You’re so intent on establishing the uniqueness of your ideas that you’ve taken to suggesting nonsense.

You want to keep scrapping, we can. But start making some viable points so I at least have reason to take the time to respond. And try not to put words in my mouth, or misquote me, as a way of supporting your arguments. It forces me to waste words pointing out that I never said the things you attribute to me.

I don’t need or crave credit for being first. Hell, I sent an e-mail to SS yesterday in which I made the point that I thought this team had overachieved, given its roster holes. He asked me not to steal his thunder since that was to be a major point of todays’ blog. I think the fact that both of us were thinking the same thing just speaks to how much all of us have shared and learned from each other on this blog over the last 7 months. I’m not competing with Sekou, you, doc, flash, jhan, Sam, krs, BP or anyone else. I’m just offering my subjective opinions on the Hawks and basketball in general. You’re at your best, Joe, when you stick to doing the same.

By buddy

April 17, 2006 07:15 PM | Link to this

End of season evaluations:

Frontcourt

The emergence of Josh Smith as not only an elite shot blocker, but as an outside shooter and passer, indicates that the Hawks are stockpiled with talent at the forward position. Smith should start next year at small forward, the position his hero Dominique Wilkins played, and play spot minutes at power forward as he has done the last two years (as dictated by matchups). J-Smoove is a budding star and another draft steal for Billy Knight to notch on his belt. Could use a bit more bulk, but not so much as to compromise his explosiveness.

Al Harrington should not return as a Hawk next year. He plays like Larry Johnson did after his back injury… he looks like a power forward, but plays beneath the rim and primarily scores with his deadly jumper. His presence may have slowed the development of J-Smoove and Marvin Williams, or it may have allowed those players to develop at just the right pace. In either case, the Hawks should try to move him in a sign and trade for an asset, or allow him to depart as an unrestricted free agent and add his salary to the team’s pool of available cash under the cap.

Marvin Williams is a very difficult player to evaluate. I remain in Sekou’s corner with his pre-draft evaluation that the Hawks needed to take Marvin over Deron Williams and Chris Paul because he has shown flashes of star potential with only one year of college and one NBA season under his belt. I refuse to play the retroactive NBA draft genius game and say the Hawks were stupid for not taking Paul because I still agree that Marvin may turn out to be the better player. Deron or Paul would have made the Hawks better immediately. Marvin Williams may end up being a starter on an Atlanta Hawks NBA championship team. And management’s decision to bring him on slowly could pay huge dividends next year when more minutes at forward figure to be available.

Zaza Pachulia stepped up from third stringer to one of the most productive starting centers in the league. That production can easily be attributed to the Hawks’ lack of other contributors at the power positions, but Zaza nevertheless distinguished himself as the best value in the league for $4 mil a season. Zaza is a fearless hustle player who pads his stats with garbage baskets. His strength, however, is not as a defensive stopper. Coupled with another PF/C to help plug up the middle (paging Shelden Williams or Lamarcus Aldridge), Zaza should continue to produce on an improved team next year.

Esteban Batista is another fearless player who shares Zaza’s hustle but lacks his polish as a basketball player. Batista is a keeper because his upside is hard to estimate and he provides the Hawks with another big body and set of fouls to give.

John Edwards is a marginal NBA player who will likely play out his contract with the Hawks and seek to continue his journeyman career elsewhere. He hasn’t shown anything that would make him a key component of the team’s future.

Overall the Hawks are stacked at small forward, don’t have a power forward on the roster, and have a serviceable and productive center who could also move to power forward if another quality center were to arrive. The Hawks must look to improve their power rotation through the draft with the addition of a player such as Tyrus Thomas, Lamarcus Aldridge, Joakim Noah or Shelden Williams. Thomas may seem redundant on a roster that already boasts Josh Smith, but I believe Thomas will be a monster at the four position at the next level due to his explosive athleticism and defensive tenacity.

By buddy

April 17, 2006 07:38 PM | Link to this

End of season evaluations:

Coaching, Management and Ownership

It all started with the controvercial signing of Joe Johnson which divided Hawks ownership into two camps and placed a question mark over the future of the franchise. I maintain as I have done since the Johnson trade was first announced that the Hawks had to obtain an elite free agent at any cost to restore the franchise’ credibility.

Steve Belkin disagreed with my assessment and the ongoing legal battle ensued. The majority owners won the first round of that battle by removing Belkin as NBA governor and then consumating the Johson trade. But since that early victory, Belkin has schooled the other owners in court and left the future of the Hawks completely up in the air. The ownership situation must be resolved before management can move forward purposefully to complete the construction of a contending roster.

On the management side, I remain a Billy Knight fan. He’s added more contributors through the draft in two years than Pete Babcock did during his entire tenure. He got us Joe Johnson, which will prove to be the turning point for this franchise. And those who second guess other moves he has made may yet end up eating their words once they behold the finished product. I remain concerned that Billy’s hands are tied by the ongoing legal battle among the owners. But once it’s resolved, there’s not another GM in the league I’d rather have at the helm of the Hawks.

Earlier in the season I called for the firing of Mike Woodson on the air on 640 WGST. At the time I felt the Hawks looked as bad or worse than they did the previous season. I’ve since backed off that assessment because the way the Hawks have closed out the season indicates Woody has kept them playing and committed to improving as a team. I still don’t think he’s an elite coach, but I’m willing to wait until the end of next season when his contract will expire to see what Woody can do with a complete roster.

By Clyde

April 17, 2006 07:41 PM | Link to this

I don’t care what yall say but I would love to see JJ,Marvin, JSmooth, and Tyrus Thomas on the same floor at one time. And I know what your gonna say Tyrus isn’t tall enough to play center but look here. I would rather have a 6’9 guy that blocks shots than a 6’11 guy that hacks.

Sorry yall haven’t heard from me in a while but I’ve been in Rio for a week. I’m still worn out! FIRE BILLY AND WOODY

By HB Ando

April 17, 2006 08:18 PM | Link to this

I like Marvin, guys, but I’ve seen nothing that says he’s going to be better than Chris Paul. Period. Paul is the best rookie point guard since Jason Kidd. And comparisions to Isiah Thomas, which I made leading up to the draft (Sekou has backed me on that position) are more than fair. He’s not Kevin Garnett, coming in at four inches shorter. He may be Jamal Mashburn, and that would be impressive. But Paul looks like an elite point guard. More impressive.

Saying you like Billy ‘cause he’s better than Babcock is kind of like saying you like you like Britney Spears because she sings better than Tiny Tim.

By jhan

April 17, 2006 09:44 PM | Link to this

JJ, JSmith, MWilliams are the only untouchables on this team. I love ZaZa & Chills but would trade them in a hearbeat for the right deal. I like a lot of what buddy says but I could probably name more than one GM I would rather have than BK!

By RichieRich

April 17, 2006 10:01 PM | Link to this

I’m with Ando on this one…If Jchill can’t start on this team then you are trade bait.

By doc

April 17, 2006 10:13 PM | Link to this

chiming in i’d like to take the position that this team has overachieved based on what it doesnt have rather than what it does have and needs to jettison. i am perplexed at times by sekou’s takes and feel they are bait for blowing up something that needs more of an add to approach instead; after all one can take a destructive approach or a constructive approach. this is also in light of the positive comments on the article that ando refered to which points to many positive observations. i also dont care too much for the issue about comparing players as to what they can do here in comparison to what can be done elsewhere, diaw is the best example of this. who thought when he was traded that he would have what 3 or 4 triple doubles this year?

this team has worked hard, has energy and room to grow so i for one am less interested in getting rid of, than adding to. i dont think i am ready to get rid of jj, marvin, josh smith or zaza as there is a tremendous upside for all four. i often forget that two are less than two years out of high school and one would have been a rising senior in college with a red shirt year, in zaza. the other guys i could trade under the proper situation would be josh childress though i like his effort and his i q and salim. i really dont think they have much trade value because they are also works in progress with some upside. the other players didnt have value for the hawks much less others.

lue stays because of his attitude and his ability to be a backup player for this team. who knows next year some team might be in dire straights and want to add him as the missing piece for a final push for a championship and be ready to give us something in return? the other guys are expendable unless they are showing something in practice that we dont see in games.

al should have been gone already, in my dreams, getting this team a player and the number one for next year that we gave up for jj. i was saying that starting back in august and dont have the confidence that some have in the sign and trade. with that said if we do get a number one back and a vet for al then the cost for jj will be worth it. that is true especially, if we get two servicible players for next year with a reasonable draft and still have a ticket for next years dance. if we get a one back then everyone’s condemnation of the trade for jj will be obsolete and really just holding grudges or just having it out for billy. if we dont get it back i will be in line to hand out the same criticism. part of my rationale for going ahead with phoenix was to get the one back from a trade for al. i hope flash has had his nap and is still up to read that last sentence though he will not agree.:-)

now, if we get two vets to add to this team then i really think this team will be way above the bar for the lottery next year. that will add to the lost draft choice argument to make it moot BUT only if we a have a one from someone else to play in the draft of 2007. i think this team’s nucleus and chemistry with this coach is looking pretty impressive. yeah clyde if you read it that is what i said (also what was implied by sekou’s article if you missed it but i doubt you are looking for objectivity).

i also say that josh and marvin can get the job done and dont have to be two inches taller as one is 6’10 the other 6’9. with their wing span those inches are not signifcant if they become the basketball players which they seem to have a drive to be and get done what needs to be done. as ando has said desire controls who gets the bounds not sheer size. marvin also showed an ablility to block shots which al couldnt though he passes himself off as an inside presence. i choked on that one.

i look forward to the upcoming draft and the open season on free agents because it will tell as much or more about management than about bk. a parallel for bk is the one guy who has taken it on the chin for management and ownership, elgin baylor. did baylor get smarter this year or was there a change in philosophy from above? for years he made good drafts only to have them go elsewhere when it got time to pay up. i think bk may be in that land of ownership limbo, for our sake as fans i pray otherwise.

By Samuel

April 17, 2006 10:26 PM | Link to this

Ando,

We may have disagreed some on this blog but the CPaul/Marvin debate, we definately agree. Marvin seems like a good kid and is definately very exciting at times but to me there is no comparison. Marvin looks about the same as he did last year with Carolina just on a different level. He still gets lost on offense and defense. And has been given every opportunity to prove he warranted a not over CPaul. It just aint happening. CPaul is a General. Age is not a factor.

Doc You wrong Man. What a final Day,huh.

By Melvin

April 17, 2006 10:33 PM | Link to this

JJ and JSmoove are keepers… Marvin, JChill, Salim and ZaZa are keepers unless we could get someone to fill a needed position(s) in return. Trade Lue and AL for a legitmate 1 and/or 4/5… Edwards and Ivey should be release at the end of season… Batista, Donta and Grundy should be 10th, 11th and 12th man….

By doc

April 17, 2006 10:52 PM | Link to this

sam, which time was i wrong? :-)

now when did you stop bein the cheerleader? marvin is going to be all right, check the article by sekou today.

yeah my friend, it was quite a final day. it kind of played out as we expected and we briefly commented on. one of the many examples was when miami sits wade and shaq while chicago blows by them into the playoffs. at some point the competitive committee needs to reasess what goes down. please dont say teams dont tank ever again. you talkin about me being wrong dude? who is the kettle and who is the pot?

you know i just never was able to practice surgery that way; lets see, ill blow this one and rest because i got a bigger one coming up next week. it didnt matter if i was up 36 hrs straight you still kept up the pace. didnt lose many either but really lost my competitive nature outside the o.r., that was all the competition i needed.

By reese

April 17, 2006 11:45 PM | Link to this

Now the hawks have to have multiple game plans. They have to have the possible sign and trade Al harrington. They have to have the Al goes to a team as a unrestricted free agent and the hawks get nothing. The final and least desirable is that the hawks sign Al to a max deal and cannot trade him. Untouchables (JS & JJ) Josh Smith has exceeded my expections with his intensity, help defense, shot blocking, improved shot, decent free throw % and never give up attitude. The salary of JJ, his decent shooting and decent ball handling makes him untouchable.
Back to the bench Zaza, Jchill, T Lue and Marvin are backup players who get starters minutes. If we can get starters for these backups, then it should be considered.

I’m still waiting to hear the type of players that Woodson wants. If we received (Steve Francis or Jason Terry), (Steve Hunter, harrison or Nene) to play alongside JJ and JS, then I would be happy. However, if woodson plays marvin, hunter and josh smith in the starting lineup, then I would not be happy. Marvin is a 3 and Josh smith is a 3. Lets get a true 4 and I’m OK with zaza playing the 5 spot. The rest Salim, Ivey, Donta, batista, grundy and Edwards are so inconsequential, they barely are worth mentioning. Woodson never gave anyone of them the opportunity to play starters minutes or in situations that they could succeed. Anyone of them could be a Boris Diaw in the making on another team that better suits their strengths. But if we are going to keep woodson, then we need to understand the type of player he wants or hope that he improves as a coach and can develop a system that gets the best out of the existing players strengths. Otherwise, now its time that we find our Boris Diaw from another team.

By doc

April 17, 2006 11:56 PM | Link to this

reese i think that jj,s salary makes him very expendable at only 10 mil per year. i imagine some teams like the knicks would consider him a bargain for his abilities and durabilities.

By cowa

April 18, 2006 01:08 AM | Link to this

It seems most bloggers are putting down that we shouldn’t trade Johnson, JSmoove, Marvin, Zaza and perhaps JChill. Then everyone wants to trade Harrington and anyone else that puts on the uniform for other teams studs. It’s just not going to happen. I know this is a blog, but there needs to be some sense of realism when addressing the hawks needs and mechanisms to get the pieces. I have read all year by bloggers that we can deal Al and some pieces that the hawks don’t even want for stars. Ain’t gonna happen. Ando and Joe know this, but most others present ideas that are just ridculous adn tiresome to read. I like the guys mentioned above, but if someone came to us offering Amare Stoudamire for JSmoove, the deal is done. No one is untouchable.

That being said, we also need to address the chemistry issue. As has been said many times, the worst thing we could have done at the trade deadline was to keep Al. All this did was prevent proper evaluation of the hawks current talent. If he isn’t part of the future, move on. This team will take time to gell, and so we need some consistency.

I totally agree with trading Childress for a PG. I’m just not sure who wants to trade for the 6th man of a team that can’t win 40 games over two seasons. I feel hawks fans value Childress a heck of a lot more than the rest of the league.

The only definite keepers are JJ and either Jsmoove or Marvin. I also think Batista should be kept, as someone needs to do the dirty work at a relatively cheap salary.

My dream scenario: 1) Trade Harrington to the Knicks for Frye and Malik Rose (to make salaries work and only has one year remaining on his contract). Frye is exactly the type of player that could be an integral piece going forward for the franchise. Rose has the leadership and drive to help the young forwards develop their games over the next year. You gotta have some leadership somewhere, and that’s where I like Rose. 2) Draft a big man (Aldridge, Noah, Bargnani or Thomas, in that order) with our #1, and anybody we can develop with our #2. No need to explain further. 3a) Sign Marcus Banks at PG. Young, pushes the ball hard, plays defense hard. 3b) If they can’t get Banks, trade Childress to Orlando for Carlos Arroyo. He’s the exact opposite of Lue in what he brings, which might allow them to complement to each other. Starters: Banks, JJ, JSmoove, Marvin and Frye. Bench: Lue, Ivey, Stoudamire, Childress, Rose, 1st round big man, Batista, ZaZa and the 2nd round pick (D-League probably). Cut everybody else. This would still allow the hawks to go after Nene if you wanted, as everybody’s salaries outside of JJ and Rose would be $4M or under. I’m gone.

By Steve B

April 18, 2006 01:14 AM | Link to this

Our HAWKS have 2 players that shouldn’t be moved J.Smith and Joe Johnson. I’m not ready to give up on Marvin and the HAWKS shouldn’t give up on him. I think Chill’s could be a great 6th man on any team, but if a deal comes along where we could land one of the NBA’s good young point gaurds( Telfair,Ridnour,Livingston or Nelson) I think we should take a hard look at it. Salim could be Vinny Johnson he could also be John Battle. Al’s gone one way or another.Royal/Lue keep one, get rid of the other. Edwards was to learn behind Collier and Za ZA so I won’t be to hard on him, and since he dosn’t make nuch he could be a bench warmer. Batista should be our designated HACKER. ZA ZA keeper as A back up.

By Steve B.

April 18, 2006 01:21 AM | Link to this

I think Rondo will be able to start in the NBA someday, Maybe even an All-Star but if we have a chance at landing Aldridge or the Euro Kid we can’t trade that pick. If those guys are gone Astro has a very good idea in trading down. From every thing I’ve heard or seen one of those will be their if the HAWKS are in the top 5.

By reese

April 18, 2006 01:22 AM | Link to this

Doc, let me clarify. When I say that JJ is untouchable, I mean that the hawks have a bargain going forward and therefore should not trade him.

By Samuel

April 18, 2006 06:23 AM | Link to this

Doc,

Chill man. “You wrong man” is actually “hood” termanology for accepting the truth among friends. You’re cool with me Sir. You beat me fair and square.

But actually you “are” wrong if you think the Hawks should even think about trading JJ. He’s pretty much the only potential “Savior” right now and there are only maybe a little over a hand full of players I would even consider trading for right now, whatever the Salary.

And I did say that resting your stars for the playoffs was acceptable when there is no possibility of movement one way or another in the standings. Sitting guys to intentially lose to get a Draft pick is an entirely different thing in my book. I guess we have a different set of competitive morals, huh.

By buddy

April 18, 2006 06:42 AM | Link to this

Ando,

I didn’t say Billy Knight was better than Pete Babcock. I said that Billy Knight was EXPONENTIALLY better than Pete Babcock. I said he had done more with two drafts than Pete did his entire career. Do the math next time.

By Astro Joe

April 18, 2006 09:04 AM | Link to this

I heard a segment of an interview conducted this morning between Gueron, Jr. and the Mayhem in the AM guys. For a chnage, the Mayhem guys didn’t just lob softball questions (I which we had some hardcore basketball fans hosting any sports talk show on the radio). A few snippets as I remember: BK’s job is safe. Geuron said that BK is a terrific evaluator of talent. He called the Zaza and JJ acquisitions the best signings of any team from last year’s free agent pool. He talked about the Smith’s and Williams’ stats from today’s AJC article. He says that Childress is the most requested player on this roster when other GMS call. He said they definitely need to improve defensively and they ned a big and PG. He couldn’t mention any names of draft picks, only to say there are some players available who should address their needs. He also told a story about how BK decided before the 04-05 draft that Deng had a body that appeared “injury prone”. (Doc, can you explain what an injury-prone body looks like?) Woody will be evaluated by BK (but he gave Woody enough kudos to make you think he is good). I did not hear anything about the ownership fiasco nor the expected salary cap spending for next season.

Not really anything new or surprising. But I did find the Deng story to be interesting.

By doc

April 18, 2006 09:17 AM | Link to this

sam, since i had just put in my two cents worth on the hawks future i thought maybe you were referring to those comments. i assure you i was just playin back with your choice of words and was quite chilled last night after a buffalo steak and pinot. maybe i beat you fair and square but you could have thrown one of our grandmothers doilies over the margin. said it had been fun before and it was fun through the last day. it also was difficult to get too interested in team stats last night to check out who had done what.

now as far as jj, i am the last to say he needs to go but if they break up the team he will be the only one who could bring back something significant as he is a bargain going forward. i have backed his acquisition from day one and have taken some pleasure in the fact that he has been accepted by most by his performance this year as the cheap shots have subsided.

will always be wrong about c. paul. didnt see his intensity and toughness in college. he may always be the one that “got away” from our franchise when we had a chance but isnt that what happened to two franchises before mj was taken? please dont misconstrue and think i am comparing him to mj but just in the sense that all big timers arent first draft choices a lot of clubs miss. do think that marvin has improved and will continue to. he is about at the stage that j.s. was at this time last year so lets wait before decciding his capabilities and potential.

we have agreed that this team has been fun to watch just in its effort alone but we all know they are a work n progress. they havent mailed in a game yet.

as far as tanking, ultimately each team does what it thinks best to the situation for its franchise so the competition does vary down the stretch and some take that extreme route but rationalize it in some manner. ethics or not that is a reality. however will state loudly, if anyone is still betting basketball games with your bookie, you got a problem.

cowa, i hope you will let me agree with youas well since i was excluded. the argument about al is one position i took along with many others. realistically, i dont think he is going to bring back what folks think but i would like to get a throw away with some experience who could fit into the team and contribute. he wont be a star and will cost more proportionally than jj did this year. probably br good if he were on his last year of a contract as well if he can play in a team manner. the other thing from al will be to get a first.

no one on this roster is worth much star power in a trade, we will have to buy that on the open market and my suspicion is the funds are not available quite yet. as said before hope to see more movement this summer than this past season. that will be the tale of the tape.

sam you are wrong man if it also means a stand up guy, which i have said before and continue to say. no offense taken and appreciate the education brutha. never too late to learn.

By Kappy

April 18, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this

ANDO and every other Chris Paul lover…..Stop, just stop. we didnt draft paul. he’s not a long, BK player. get over it.

By the way, dont you think Paul’s shown everything he has. I cant tell you how many times i watched him in college and he was unimpressive. Sure he put up big numbers this year, but he HAD to. The Hornets have no other talent. He had to score, play 40 minutes. Thats why his stats are that good.

Please stop knocking Marvin. I hope this blog is still going in say 10 years. Then we could compare Marvin and Paul. But until then, get over it. Paul’s not that good. Ando, he’s no Isiah Thomas. More like Stevie Franchise.

By doc

April 18, 2006 09:27 AM | Link to this

just read the comments aj. thanks for the synopsis.

injury prone body is not one i have heard before. since he just had a concussion maybe it meant he saw a soft head. i will definitely look at him the next few weeks as he is playing well on a team that is in the playoffs. he may be one of the significant contributers down the stretch, played significant minutes without injury this year. he was pretty good on my fantasy team but i will remember that for next year. guess i got lucky this year with him.

tend to agree with ando that chill is not the force to start for too many teams but deng probably could as comparisons are often made between the two.

By Astro Joe

April 18, 2006 09:33 AM | Link to this

Ando, here is my quote:

“the only way you trade a #6 pick for a number twenty-something pick is if the latter is significantly better than the slot he was chosen or the reverse for the former. Neither is true in this case.”

Jack has NOT demonstrated anything this season. Nelson has certainly demonstrated his skills. I am NOT afraid to break-up this team. I would trade Chill for Nelson or as part of a package that would net us something tremendous. You’re initial recommendation was Jack. I think that is ridiculous. His NBA resume is suspect. Nelson’s is not. Big difference.

If the ownership budget is a problem next season, no, this franchise will NOT fold up the tent. They didn’t this season. That may be your prefernece, but as long as they meet the minimum salary threshold, they get to stay. You HAVE TO acknowledge that salary issues may last beyond this season.

I believe in creative problem solving. Short on money, how do you improve your team and work under those restraints. I offered up an idea, trade down, draft 2 players and hope that you get players who can immediately provide 15-20 minutes of quality play. I think both Armstrong and Rondo could potentially do that. Sign a real cheap free agent like Mbenga from Dallas or Pargo from Chicago.

It’s much more challenging to be the GM of the Pittsburgh Pirates than it is the NY Yankees. It is quite possible that next year, we are the Pirates and we need a plan.

Sure, I’d love to have Aldridge. But that is ABSOLUTELY out of our control. It always has been. Just like Ogden, out of our control. Any plan that is predicated on that which we can’t control is at best a very risky plan. That’s why I harp on less glamorous names, because we CAN get those guys. Options! Come on Ando, give me some. Don’t just tell me that you predicted that Aldridge would be a great fit. Dah! Congratulations. Who else? What if we can’t spend more than $40M next year, then what? I know when I’m at my best, I’m trying to challenge you to realize your best. And harping on the obvious (should have chosen Paul, should have chosen Duhon, should have negotiated a better deal with Phoenix, Aldridge is the best fit), is much too easy for someone as insightful as you. Pick up the pace and challenge yourself to think beyoind the obvious and easy. That’s what makes blogging fun. The completely different viewpoint apart from the ordinary.

By Adam

April 18, 2006 09:36 AM | Link to this

At this point, difficult as it is, it’s pointless to compare Marvin to Chris Paul. Right now, obviously Paul is the superior NBA player; but in time they both could be winners. I think Marvin will be a starter next year, if only because management is going to want to put him to the test and see what kind of returns they can get on their investment. And I believe that he will be fine.

In the meantime, all frustrations over Paul aside, the Hawks have to upgrade at the 1 and 5, so as to allow guys like Zaza and Lue to come off the bench with fewer yet more effective minutes. As competitive as those two have been all year, the Hawks need to depend on them less for starters minutes. A bench with Zaza, Salim, Childress, and Lue could round off an effective 9 man rotation - provided the Hawks actually fill their two need positions with effective NBA starters. We’ll see how it plays out.

By Astro Joe

April 18, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

Sekou, another thing that Gearon, Jr. claimed is that the Hawks have the youngest NBA team in league HISTORY! Is that true? I knew we were the youngest this season, but he is claiming there has never been a younger team ever.

By The Flash

April 18, 2006 10:00 AM | Link to this

All you guys seem of one mind that financial constraints have and will keep this team from making needed improvements. Doc would not only give BK a pass on responsibility for this, but now praises him for taking a bullet for the owners by not laying bare the inability or unwillingness to spend what it takes. I don’t get any of this.

Has anyone considered that, given the revenues, JJ was unaffordable? I know, it is old business, and he provided one of the few bright spots in this difficult season, but was he affordable and is his contract, and not simply the ownership squabble, what has ownership hamstrung? I’m just asking. Suppose that BK had pursued a restricted budget, and had not spent what he did for JJ. Would this team be in a better position to improve in needed ways? As you guys have it, currently there is no opening in the future where this team can get it done financially, and it is lacking draft choices and Diaw who could have filled this team out on the relative cheap. I know that this is asking about putting the tooth paste back in the tube. However, when BK put his reputation and everything else on the line to force the issue around acquiring JJ, he was praised for being a stand up guy; someone who would not tolerate an owner stepping on his turf. Now, I hear that he is being a stand up guy for keeping quiet when, as was the principle, the current owners tell him to shut up and do as they say. And, he does. I don’t get it, really I don’t.

Please, if someone wants to reply, try to do it without personal attacks and without getting all huffy. It is difficult to understand your responses, or take in what you are saying, when responses a presented in that fashion.

Astro, I don’t know anything about the sign and trade thing. Are you saying that if we sign Al for whatever per year for five years, what we have to get back is whatever per year for five years. Does it have to be one player? What if we do that and trade what we get to a third team for a player that costs much less? Does that work under the rules?

By doc

April 18, 2006 10:19 AM | Link to this

no praise flash for bk but a different perspective, which i grant may not be true, as there are few in this life, but a valid thought with an excellent example in elgin. we all like to keep oue jobs and sometimes do what isnt what we want to do. i dont think you can argue that and the fact we all take bullets from time to time. please dont misinterpret what i print just to have a discourse.

By The Flash

April 18, 2006 10:35 AM | Link to this

Doc,

You have recently come out and said that BK did what he did last year because it was simply a matter of math: 70 percent is bigger than 30 percent. I took that to mean that you say he insisted that it was personal between him and Belkin, refused to sign the guy’s hand, and generally trashed him in the media, not because Belkin wanted to keep one of the draft choices back, but because that was what the other managers wanted. Corporate America is your explanation. Not for men of principle and character. Maybe they go along, but they don’t get out in front and engage in a charade to ingratiate themselves to the guys who they think will win. It’s calling selling your integrity. And, once you are in the bag, you are in the bag and there is no getting out.

So, if what you say is correct, I do not see how you cast BK’s actions in anything but a putrid light. It stinks, and has made him impotent.

But, my point was different. I am beyond that dispute. That ship, as they say, has sailed.

What I am asking, and it is asking, is, did BK and the other owners spend more than they could afford on JJ and, as a result, hamsting this team from being able to make necessary moves. No one in their right mind would argue that JJ has not made this team hugely better. But, if his signing prevents making further progress, than one has to wonder why they did not know that going in. Did they think that JJ would fill up the stands?

Look, I don’t want to be a broken record, but no trade, Diaw maybe comes around, we suck this year, and now have two more draft choices to play with. Sign an Aldridge and Roy (assuming lucky) and trade Al for a point who can lead, and have a one for next year.

So, did the signing of JJ hamstring BK aka the owners from making needed deals this year, or is it attributable solely to the dispute with Belkin and how that might play out. Incidently, if none of them took this dispute into account when they sought to oust Belkin, whose fault is that?

Again, civil responses are much, much preferred.

By Basketball Princess

April 18, 2006 10:54 AM | Link to this

Cowa, sorry to inform you that Noah is not declaring, Carlos arroyo is not leaving Orlando, although that would be a nice touch.

Samuel, I know I should not have to tell you this, but College ballin is different than NBA ballin. You have to be taught how to play NBA Ball. I think Marvin has more of a chance to quickly grow since he is not set in his NCAA Ways. Would I trade him? Yes. Right now? Maybe…Maybe Not. The only thing Marvin is laking is star quality. Like being able to be marketable. He doesn’t have that swagger yet that needs to be added to the team.

You guys talk about if you don’t make it to the staring line up then you should be cut. Boris didn’t and look where he is now. A contender for most improved player. So come on loose the Hard core approach. Some of the games we should’ve won was because we didn’t not have a healthy Childress! I actually might like Chills over Marvin. In my non male basketball IQ (according to some of yall) I think with the right situation, some coach or trainer is going to evolve Chills into a Hamilton type of a player. Now I didn’t say be just like him. Before yall go off. And I don’t care what yall knuckle heads say.

Yea!!!!! The Basketball Princess has gotten her access back for tonights game!!!!! Yeah that’s funny. It would take the last game of the season to step my pretty toes back into the game. But better late than never! and Better that it’s Miami!

Boy do I got some Q’s to ask these guys, and can’t wait to tell on all yall about what you rascals’ been sayin round yonder!

By Steve B.

April 18, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

I don’t think spending money on free agents is the problem, I think it’s more lets not spend the money untill the Belkin problem is over. JJ’s contract was loaded in the first year so the worst of it is over. JJ is on his way to being one of the most complete players in the NBA. The only guess I can make about the Deng injury pron body comment is that maybe BK thinks Deng is often out of shape.

By Astro Joe

April 18, 2006 11:13 AM | Link to this

Flash, I think salaries need to be within 25% when you trade players according to the CBA. So if we sign Al to a $8M contract as part of a sign and trade, we must take back salaries (it could be from multiple players) that are in the range of $6M-$10M. And its just a one year thing, we do not need to take back anything comparable to the total of the new contract, just the first year. I think J-Rich signed a deal that starts around $8-$9M, I would expect Al to want something like that. That’s why I’m saying a sign and trade for Al will still cost this team about $8-10M in 06-07. Mo Taylor & Channing Frye would work perfectly in this scenario (Taylor’s contract would expire and give us more cap space at the end of 06-07).

By Steve B.

April 18, 2006 11:22 AM | Link to this

This is not directed at FLASH but to all of us that have strong opinions. At least once a day on this blog some one gets called out. Some times respectfully some times not.What amazes me is number of blogers that call foul or get mad without reading the entire artical that they are being called out on, or not reading what they wrote themselves to be called out. Any time you call some one an IDIOT, STUPID or some other big word that means the same thing you have taken the gloves off. I my self have gone back and looked at some of the things I have posted and can truley say some times I’ve started with FLASH and ANDO and some times they have started with me. It really dosn’t bother me but it seems to bother some. So in the now if you call some one out using a derogitory term expect it to come back. Guys we are all MEN hear with the exception of BBP(Basketball Princess), I don’t think any of us are going to back down when called out or spoken to in terms of no respect. If you wan’t to keep it peaceful and respectful you have to lead by example and not insult others and then you exspect the same in return.

By HB Ando

April 18, 2006 11:23 AM | Link to this

Joe, going after a Banks or a Jack is exactly the kind of pragmatic, cost-effective solution we should be talking about. I don’t know how my positions got attached to financially frivolous, unrealistic plans, but I’ve never been of the opinion that this team could buy it’s way back to respectability. Let’s look at Banks, as a way of considering Jack. He spent two years languishing on the bench in Boston, nearly getting waived a couple of times. Questions regarding his B-ball IQ abounded, but his sheer athleticism kept folks intrigued. Given a new start with a better fitting franchise, in a mere 3 months, he becomes the hot possibility for teams seeking help at the point. But he’s in Minnesota, because they took a chance and gave him minutes when Boston had only given up. Jack is a first year, first round draft pick, on a team in shambles, overloaded at the point. Around draft time last year, Chris Paul said Jack’s name should be included in every conversation about the group of talented point guards coming out.

In Atlanta, we see other teams finding the diamonds in the rough, then we start talking about whether we can bring them here. Wilcox, Banks, Darko, these are young players who weren’t getting the chance to play, that other teams sought out to give an opportunity to, who have paid immediate dividends. So when I talk about Childress for Jack, I am going beyond the obvious. I’m challenging you to look at players who could be something much more if placed in a different environment. I’m projecting rapid improvement. Anybody can call for Banks, now that Minnesota has given him the chance to validate his abilities. I’m looking for the next Banks. I’m looking to find him on the cheap, because that’s what this team likely has to work with. Somebody here was giving themselves props for suggesting that we should have acquired Darko and Arroyo. In my very first e-mail to Sekou, back in June of ‘05, I suggested the same thing. I don’t harp on the obvious, Joe, I initiate the idea, and it becomes obvious for everyone else (Aldridge, Paul, Duhon and the final cost of the JJ transaction). Pound me for belaboring a point, but don’t short me credit for saying something first.

Kappy, find one credible basketball writer or scout that thinks that Paul has capped in his development as a player. Hell, find me one player of note that has capped as a rookie. Nobody caps at 20, Kap. It’s just not a reasonable position. Paul is already viewed by league insiders as an elite PG. I’m not knocking Marvin when I say we can only hope he can become an elite forward in the next few years. But Marvin will be hard-pressed to eclipse Paul. Marvin’s challenge is that, subjectively, point guards are seen as leaders. So when one is great, he may be seen as “better” than a top forward. He’s the decision maker. A great example is in New Jersey. Look at Kidd and Carter. Both are superstars. Carter is one of the most unstoppable forces in the game of basketball. He’s had a tremendous season, disproving many of his doubters about his heart and his ability to stay healthy. But then you have Kidd, one of the best point guards in history. Which one is better? The answer is all in what your team needs. Marvin can only aspire to be Carter, to Kidd’s Paul. Because swingmen and points are apples and oranges. So I don’t ever knock Marvin. I only look at what this team needed during the draft last year, and I say, and said at the time (which Sekou has confirmed from our pre-draft conversations), that Paul was the guy this team should have taken.

We have Marvin instead. My expectations for him as a player are tremendous. He’ll hopefully carve out his own value here. I’m still worried that neither he nor Josh are ever going to be full-time power forwards. It makes me wonder how both can fully evolve as players, getting starters minutes, without one always playing out of position somewhat. It’s doable with a Ben Wallace-type center, a rebound/shot blocking machine, lurking in the paint. It’s not doable with Zaza, because he can never be that player (and how many Wallace’s are there?). I guess we’ll see over this summer and into next year. The Charlotte game was a microcosm of the paradox their playing together creates. They both got very solid stats, but when sharing the front line with Zaza, they were incapable of stopping anyone from scoring. Even if Josh averages more blocks than Big Ben, he has no where near the impact on the game. Ben is down on the block contesting every shot. Those that he doesn’t block, he alters, or forces kickouts for lower percentage outside shots. Heck, maybe Joe is right, that if we can’t get Aldridge, an S. Williams or an Armstrong plugs that hole. But I still say that if we can’t get who we want in the top five, we can trade the rights to a swingman we might have drop to us, in exchange for a better solution in the paint than either of those guys represent.

Time will tell. And our mock draft competition nears. That will tell alot about our predictive abilities.

By HB Ando

April 18, 2006 11:29 AM | Link to this

Joe, I thought that we could take on more contract, outside of the 25% plus range, as long as we remained under the salary cap. It was my understanding that we could have trade Al for say, Marbury, because we would still have been under the cap. I thought that Buddy explained that, but it’s been a long time, and I can’t remember who said it, or if it was accurate.

Now that is a different issue than the reality that we can’t expect ownership, in whatever incarnation they survive, to increase the payroll significantly before next season. There’s seemingly too few ticket buyers at this time to expect them to throw tens of millions away. I suspect payroll will have to build at whatever pace the revenues can be grown, progressively.

Maybe Paul Allen would like to trade teams with the Atlanta Spirit. He wants good guys. Those we have.

By HB Ando

April 18, 2006 11:38 AM | Link to this

Joe, one other thing. Those were interesting comments you brought to our attention regarding Billy’s choice of Childress over Deng. I think it’s a bunch of bunk, since Deng had no injury history to speak of in his one year at Duke. But I’m curious what he had to say about Igoudala, the player I projected for our pick, instead of Childress. I think once Igoudala gets away from Iverson, who is great, but keeps all his young teammates from developing, he’ll be the force many predict. I believe history will show him to have the superior career to Childress. Any comments on that issue from the radio broadcast?

By doc

April 18, 2006 12:42 PM | Link to this

flash in terms of the 70/30 comment you refer to; i said, that if you, ando or i wanted to keep his job then we would probably do what 70% of the group wanted to do rather than follow the guy who had 30% of the total financial outlay. that hardly makes it on a personal level other than wanting to keep my job and do what i feel capable of doing. i think you have misread my intent on that comment which was to point out the obvious as to what most of us would do especially if we believed in the product and wanted to keep our job.

as someone else stated at times it helps to take a different view, after all it is a holgraphic 360 degree universe, hence the allusion to elgin who has been ridiculed for what has happened with the clippers in spite of what we know is one of the worst owner’s in the league for end product. you know the ole saying of making chicken salad. it is also my approach for assessing the upcoming off season, lack of moves mean inertia from above most likely and probably not due to bk. certainly cant be sure, no truths in this world.

btw flash you have commended this team the past few weeks with enthusiasm, cant understand why you dont give some cred to the guys who put it together or coached it up this season.

By HB Ando

April 18, 2006 01:00 PM | Link to this

doc and Sam, assists and 3’s are still up in the air for tonight and tomorrow night’s games. Good luck to both of you and congrats on your strong seasons in the fantasy hoops league. After bringing my B game all season, I will not forget to be at the live draft from the very beginning next season. I have much to improve upon. I did take down an ESPN championship for the 8th straight year, so my fantasy hoops season was not a total loss.

By Marv

April 18, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

we have four players we have built our franchise around: JJ, J-Chill, J-Smoove, and Marvin. They cannot all start together unless JJ is at point. Travesty this is.

By reese

April 18, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

Flash, Billy Knight was cheap before the current ownership group came into power. In his early tenure, he repeatedly stated that he was not going to spend money just for the sake of spending money. He stated that a losing team should not be near the salary cap and should not be paying the luxury tax. In fact, I believe it was Gearon who stated that he wanted to spend more money when the Spirit group first took over and but that he would adhere to Billy’s advice. Thats why I thought it was so strange that the gave JJ so much money. He jettisoned every player we had and then committed so much to an average player in Joe Johnson when we needed so much. At the time I wasn’t prepared to waste the season while joe learned the point, marvin and salim went through rookie learning and I didn’t think that zaza, john edwards or batista would make an impact. Now, its the end of the year and the season was basically a learning season for Woodson and his players. The only part that I was wrong about was zaza.

By 21298OK

April 18, 2006 01:10 PM | Link to this

Astro Joe mentioned:

“…another thing that Gearon, Jr. claimed is that the Hawks have the youngest NBA team in league HISTORY! Is that true?”

I heard that too. I think the logic is somewhat skewed though. We are young and we have some young talent…but how’s our young talent compared to Orlando and Charlotte. That’s a leap of faith. Orlando’s roster average is considerably older with guys like Augmon ending their careers - but their core players are big, young, and talented. I don’t see youth alone as a reason for great expectations. -S.D.

By Melvin

April 18, 2006 01:18 PM | Link to this

Ando, i enjoy your blogs but i think you are underestimating Jchill skills/worth. If member recall me correctly, didn’t Deng missed several games(21)last year because of injuries. Bk maybe on to something with that prediction. Deng and Igoudala stats are similar to JChill’s so i don’t understand how you and others can suggest that these guys are going to be superstars and Jchill is a bust.

G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

Luol Deng 77 56 33.4 .462 .269 .750 1.60 5.00 6.60 1.9 .92 .65 1.34 1.60 14.2

Andre Iguodala 80 80 37.5 .501 .361 .753 1.40 4.40 5.90 3.0 1.64 .26 1.86 2.50 12.0

Josh Childress 72 9 30.3 .554 .484 .766 1.80 3.40 5.30 1.8 1.18 .53 1.39 2.50 10.1

By HB Ando

April 18, 2006 01:40 PM | Link to this

Mel, my point about Deng was that it would be revisionist history to suggest injury issues that didn’t show up until AFTER he got to the NBA as a reason Billy passed him BEFORE he got here. And Igoudala was my choice over Chills, not Deng, so I won’t take umbridge with that one. My position on Igoudala versus Chills is, I believe, widely shared by folks in the league. I reiterate that I don’t believe you can value too highly a guy that cannot crack the starting lineup for one of the worst teams in the league. As many believe the future of the team is built around the core of Johnson, Smith and Williams, it’s sixth man he will be. This goes back to interchangeable parts and building a balanced roster. I’m not demeaning Childress, as much as I’m pointing out that he could have more value to a team where he would project as the starter (though I can’t think of many teams where that would be the case). And if you can get a projected starting point guard for a guy who is replaceable, in a transaction where two teams are trading players where they are deep to obtain a player where they are thin, then you do it for the good of the team. Finding a back up swing man, a position that is most deep in the NBA, is easier than finding a starting point guard. So IF we could obtain a starting point guard for Childress, we would be wise to do so. Don’t let stats be your guide. Who is Childress fighting for, on the second team for touches? Igoudala can’t get many looks playing on the first team with Iverson and Webber. But any scout would tell you that Igoudala is a better defender, finisher and open-court passer than Childress. And I’ll open this up to Sekou, and if he tells me different, I’ll admit I’m wrong, but I don’t think there are many scouts or player personnel folks in the league that would take Childress over Igoudala, as it was when the decision to draft them was made. Please feel free to find me someone, outside of Atlanta Hawks’ fans, that would take Childress over Igoudala.

I think it’s great that folks are inquiring about Childress’ availability. We desperately need currency for trades, to make this team better and balanced. Childress happens to play the same spots as our best players. If he could play a bigger role on another team, hopefully he can fetch us a quality player for one of the slots we are woefully inadequate at. With guys like Iverson possibly on the block this summer, it would seem kind of ridiculous for us to overvalue a backup to the point of making him untradeable.

If anyone has any credible evidence that Childress is viewed as the superior player to Igoudala, please provide the source and the assessment. Given proof that I’m off-base, I’ll gladly admit I’m wrong on the issue.

By Harry Hawk

April 18, 2006 02:14 PM | Link to this

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the only way Josh Childress would have cracked the starting lineup this year is if Joe Johnson had been hurt. He’s not a power forward, so he couldn’t replace Harrington (who, of course, isn’t much of a power forward, but he certainly has more size than Childress). Besides, Harrington had to be showcased this year, right? Chills might be a small forward, but Josh Smith is bursting with athleticism and they drafted Marvin Williams, who, because of the minutes Harrington was getting, was more likely to split his minutes between the 3 and the 4. (The merits of whether Smith or Williams can actually be a power forward are for other posts.) That leaves center and point guard. Childress obviously can’t start at either of those positions. The only possible way I can think of for Childress to have started this year (barring an injury to JJ) is if the hare-brained idea to let JJ play the point had worked out well.

So, as I stated at the top of this post, Joe Johnson basically had to get hurt for Childress to move into the starting lineup on a regular basis. I personally have no idea why the Hawks drafted Childress so highly (especially with an easily blockable jump shot like that), but I’m getting tired of the “How good can he really be if he can’t start for this team?” argument. How good could Wilcox be if he didn’t start for those awful Clippers teams? How good could he be if the Clippers were so good this year without him? Oh. They have Elton Brand. Childress was here before Johnson, but Joe Johnson is a better player at shooting guard than Childress. Sometimes, even the bad teams have good players who hold other guys back. That’s when weird trades happen and a guy suddenly blossoms elsewhere.

So the question for the blog is this: If the Hawks shop Childress, do you think there will be any teams who will look at him for what he might become rather than what he has been with the Hawks?

By The Flash

April 18, 2006 02:28 PM | Link to this

Doc,

I have always had concerns about Woodsen. My concern was and is that he is fundamentally a Bobby guy. I hate Bobby and his style of ball. From what I’ve seen, which unfortunately is limited, I am unimpressed with the approach on the offensive end. Too few guys get to initiate and the ball seems to stagnate. Does not inspire me as a fan. That said, two years is not a long time with a young team that had what, four main additions this past year. The recovery after the rough start speaks to the guy’s ability to coach, as does the competativeness of the team throughout the season. I just don’t think that he has the vision I’d be enlivened by on the offensive end.

BK: As I’m sure is true for everyone, it is PAINFULLY obvious that I think that BK miscalculated this JJ acquisition on a multitude of levels, perhaps one I had not previously considered but now entertain as possible: not only did he and the others erroneously think that JJ was the answer at the point (and therefore unscionably not address that issue at anytime before the actual signing of JJ or after), but also they might well have grossly miscalculated his impact on the gate. If so, and that explains why they did not pull the trigger on the deal with Denver involving Al, then wow, what can I say.

As soon as BK explains his failure to sign or move Al well before the training deadline, and his inexplicable handling of Delk, especially giving him to Detroit for NOTHING, maybe he gets some props. Of course, that’s assuming that he also explains why he did not bring in someone to play the point or bang.

On the other hand, putting aside his apparent miscalculation that JJ was going to be his point, which is a big putting aside, I have no problem with his choice of MW and might well have done the same, but only if I had a plan to get a point through some other means. My 2 pick, for example, would have been a point. Also, I like JC and JS and will not second guess those picks; just not that finite in my knowledge and think that both can be solid and special players on a team team (if you know what I mean) for a number of years.

So, has he displayed talent as a GM, yes, for sure. Does he have things to answer for. You know my view.

By stevel

April 18, 2006 02:35 PM | Link to this

D Smith, Ivey, and Edwards contiributed little. Gone. Nelson (injury prone), Jack and Banks too green. Forget the Paul and Williams argument because it’s moot. We don’t have Paul. Probably never will. Batista is raw, but showed flashes at times to consider keeping around. We need a 1 and a 5. Not a 4/5, but a big physical 5. Someone to clog the middle. ZZ is not a 5. 4/5 maybe but not a 5.
6’9” is not a 5 no matter how high he jumps. Shaq, either Wallace, Duncan, Yao, and several other would eat him alive. He’d have 6 fouls in 20 minutes or less. Rondo is not ready as a Soph. and how will Aldridge be expected to play game after game if he doesn’t show up when he’s needed. We need to bring in Cenk to see how he fares as a 1 and maybe search the rest of the world for a 5. The NBA is not just limited to NA. See what the rest of the world has to offer. Probably nothing, but you gotta look. Nene, Telfair, Arroyo are players to consider when it comes to trades. This is my 2 cents from a casual observer, but a longtime fan. Need to find another “Tree” or “Deke” somewhere. Don’t need a great scorer, but a presence in the middle.

By Kappy

April 18, 2006 03:04 PM | Link to this

ANDO I hear ya on all points. You cant compare paul and marvin. And neither player has capped their abilities, youre right, they’re only 20.

But i can still disagree with you that we should have picked Marvin over Paul. Let me ask you this. if at the last draft, the hawks didnt have al harrington, who would you have picked then? i know its hypothetical, but you have to figure BK knew we were losing al soon. just a thought.

I was very much against drafting Paul last year, i thought he was overrated and like i said earlier was unimpressed with his college play. He’s proved me wrong this season, no doubt. But i stand by BK’s decision on marvin.

By Kappy

April 18, 2006 03:13 PM | Link to this

Guys we all know that this team needs proven starters at the 1 and 4/5. But i hope we dont go out and overpay for garbage. Like if we had signed Jerome James last year (thank god we didnt).

i was looking at the hawks cap space on this webapge… http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries.htm

its amazing how many teams in this league have overpaid for garbage. the knicks have 4 of top 30 salaries alone, and they’re the worst team in the east. Brian Grant at 16 mil a year?, Van horn at 14? ugh

i think the marcus banks/jack/j. nelson/etc trades would work for this team. we’ll get a big in the draft. hope is on the horizon!

By Tyger

April 18, 2006 04:30 PM | Link to this

Man, you guys are long-winded! The Hawks are in great shape. We have doubled our win total, decreased our salary cap figure and gotten the youngsters feet wet.

The real key to the off-season is getting rid of Brokeback Belkin. Otherwise, we’re all just p** in the wind.

I repeat “no deal will go down while he’s still around.” And that has serious ramifications on everything, even the draft.

Granted Brokeback Belkin cant stop the draft process, but since “we” know his “MO” from last summer, the question is “do you use your top pick for one player or trade down for two?” Trading down circumvents his “veto power” to some degree, while allowing mgt. to still plug holes despite him.

Now, we could trade down anyway and have a 2nd rd. pick too. But we certainly wont be free to spend the cap space and sign+trade at will. He’s proven that.

By Tyger

April 18, 2006 04:46 PM | Link to this

Realistic Scenario:

Draft Aldridge or Bust. I doubt we get lucky enough in the lottery to get the #1 pick, which I would use on Tyrus Thomas, but probably will get a top 5.

I draft LaMarcus Aldridge and pass on Bargnani, he may be the next coming of Dirk Diggler, but Dirk isnt a defensive stopper and we’re not the Phoenix Suns. Aldridge will develop into a solid bigman for many years into the future.

If not Aldridge, trade down for Patrick O’bryant and Hilton Armstrong or Marcus Williams or future picks. Second round Ryan Hollins or Guillermo Diaz.

I’m content to just let Al Harrington walk. Many will criticize us losing “value” w/o getting anything in return, but we get cap space, roster spot, defense and less turnovers.

Plus, the thought of trying to get equal value w/o taking on a bad contract or attitude is mind-boggling.

Hopefully, we can sign a free agent like Olowokandi or Earl Barron, true centers on the cheap, that would know their roles. This combined with the draft and Pachulia would shore up our interior.

I think too much is made of our backcourt situation. We can win with Ty Lue, he’s proven that. Salim is learning and needs more time this summer, we cant impede that investment. Ivey can go. And Grundy is a nice piece.

We cannot move Childress, Marvin or JSmoove. They are the core of our rebuilding process.

By the Flash

April 18, 2006 05:33 PM | Link to this

Tyger,

I’m not understanding you. Belkin has no veto power under the agreement he signed to sell his interest in the team. So trades and drafts can be made without even consulting him, unless of course he wins the current aspect of the court battle. In that case, Tyger dearie, to borrow your metaphor, you might want to find something comfortable to bend over; smile and enjoy it, it seems your style.