Hawks

By Dennis

April 5, 2006 04:11 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

I agree, Hawks are great to watch, especially given some of the games phoned in by other teams. Woody & Billy Knight got it going in the right direction. It seems like ownership is in this for the long haul and that’s great. We want a stable franchise with a good foundation and that’s what we’re building. The W’s will come as guys grow and new blood comes on. This team will be great at Marvin Williams matures, as J-chill & J-smoove continue to grow and with Joe at the helm.

By Bill

April 5, 2006 04:16 PM | Link to this

Sekou, I agree with you…we still need the usual pieces to really compete for the playoffs (size inside and guards who can direct the action), but this Hawks team has won me over with their “never say die” attitude.

The upcoming off-season is where BK will earn his salary…If he can give Woodson the players he needs to compete, we’ll see how we stand next season. For now, these guys are like the Bad News Bears, they never give up — now if they just wouldn’t fall so far behind during the 1st half of most games!

By Steve B.

April 5, 2006 04:17 PM | Link to this

The Hawks never gave up last night and it’s important to note how well they played with Al on the bench. J.Smoove has been terrific since the All-Star break for A second year out of highschool player. 13.9 pts 8.0 reb 4.43asst and 3.08 blks in 23 games. I can’t think of who said it but when he gets his ball handling togeather he will be scary. He struggled from the floor but played well in other areas last night. That is what your star players are to do when having A bad shooting night. JJ is A star, we have not had A player this good since Steve Smith, and JJ might be better than Steve. I like their attitude hopefully in the 2006-2007 season it will turn in to wins.

By Steve B.

April 5, 2006 04:25 PM | Link to this

Basket Ball Princes you seem to know what your talking about, but since you askesd A question I will answer it. What 20 something guy wouldn’t be happy in Orlando? SHAQ,PENNY, and TRACEY. The same thing was said of and by all these guys when it came to being happy in Orlando. All of them left as soon as they got A chance. You said you know him so you have the inside track this is just food for thought.

By buddy

April 5, 2006 04:37 PM | Link to this

JJ is a vastly better player than Steve Smith, whom I followed from his time at Michigan State. JJ has Steve’s shooting touch and point guard instincts, but instead of Smitty’s stiff and unathletic frame, JJ is an explosive athlete in his own right. I don’t know if Smitty was ever one of the top three players in the league at his position, but JJ already is.

By Dejay

April 5, 2006 04:38 PM | Link to this

I’m not the type to commend a team for losing (especially when it comes to this franchise) but I have to give credit where it’s due. Just imagine how ugly this game could’ve been a couple of years ago when Shareef, JT, and Big Dog were on the squad. Teams that are nearly 30 under .500 just don’t give the effort these guys have exhorted; teams that are contending for the 8th seed don’t give the effort half of the time as last night’s Sixers-Cavaliers game would attest. For that reason, you have to give Woodson some kudos because they could’ve quit a long time ago.

This offseason will be a test for BK to see if he can finally put some more pieces around this team. A big man and another ballhandler so JJ don’t have to do EVERYTHING on the court would suffice.

By A Thinking Fan

April 5, 2006 05:00 PM | Link to this

I think I have viewed, watched, or listen to 90% of the Hawks’ games this year. They are a treat! Make you want to lace them up - Yeah right…

Now we need the same ALL OUT effort from the owners/management side of the house.

By Basketball Princess

April 5, 2006 05:41 PM | Link to this

You are right Stevie B, but the Tracy thing was because they shipped in Weisbrod to clean house who had NO PRIOR basketball knowledge before he took the GM position. If I remember correctly he was the COO of the Hockey team.

Weisbrod came in there and said that Tracy wasn’t his kinda player. They were not trying to treat Tracy like the franchise player that he was. U know, do everything that they could do to make him happy, (at that time getting him sone help) like most franchise players get done.

I remember Tracy wanting to work things out there in Orlando, until Weisbroad went to the media and said that Tracy wasn’t his type of player, and making accusations of him cussing tracy out in LA. Tracy at that point was like get me outta here if you don’t want me here. See that’s different between DH and Tracy. DH aint going thru none of that. The Management now is all for making DH know that he is their man. Adding the pieces it/HE needs to put this team in a position for a play-off birth. Tracy felt that they wern’t trying to do that when the top dogs allowed dude to come in and wreck havic.

By Enough Already

April 5, 2006 06:53 PM | Link to this

When are we going to stop being content cheering about almost winning? The little victories are nice, but when the big victories equal 22 in a season of 82, it’s just not enough for me anymore. Sure, we’re 9 games ahead of where we were last year, but it’s not like we could have gotten any worse. Billy Knight has made some questionable decisions, but I disagree that he’s a horrbile GM like so many people portray the situation. He’s being hamstrung now by Atlanta Spirit (Spirit of what, exactly?) and I’m not sure it’s going to get any better in the near future. It pains me to see this once proud (or at least very respectable) franchise spinning its wheels while the ownership group bickers incessantly. Everyone knew this was going to happen when such a large group of people decided that they could buy the team and run it as a cohesive unit, and now our fears have been realized. I think the Hawks should be sold to the NBA like the Expos were. Let the league figure out how to bring this organization back from the dead. The crybaby owners shouldn’t be able to hold an entire franchise’s future hostage for another minute just because they can’t agree on a single thing.

By CJ

April 5, 2006 06:55 PM | Link to this

Yes the youth on the Hawks are definitely keeping the ball club going. Dramatic difference from the old Hawks who just gave up. It’s up to management to give this team and Woodson what they need to succeed. If not then run them out of time before they run our players out of town.

By NERNAB

April 5, 2006 06:59 PM | Link to this

I am at the Hawks games almost every night. I will miss this game tonight, but the Hawks play hard all the time. Josh Smith emergence has been awesome. He has vastly improved since the beginning of the season. With a decent point guard the Hawks maybe on there way to there first playoff game since Mookie. Lets just keep supporting the Hawks and they will continue to play hard.

By HB Ando

April 5, 2006 07:32 PM | Link to this

I think it’s safe to say that I have been one of the biggest, if not the biggest critic of management and ownership throughout the over 7 months this blog has been in existence. During that time however, I have refrained from questioning the desire and undeveloped talent of this young team. Even when they started 2-16 and another blogger called me out for continually saying this team had some solid, young talent, I maintained my criticisms of the organization, not the players. These guys may or may not read what we say here (I know if I was a player it would be hard to take some of the harsh criticisms that are regularly leveled here). Most of these guys will go into the off-season knowing they left it all out on the floor. Maybe the innocence that comes from being the youngest team in NBA history is the explanation for Sekou’s observations regarding their unwillingness to expect anything less than a victory over night, despite being one of the least successful teams in the league. No matter, there is something here that bodes well for the NBA futures of many of these guys, whether it’s in Atlanta or elsewhere.

Unfortunately, until there is either a sign of activity from ownership/management, or a change in the people who comprise these two groups, I’ll continue to say that setting expectations fairly low for how much improvement this team will see via off-season moves, is the safe, logical position to take. It’s just the most realistic perspective, given how little they did to help these guys win this year.

By infamouskrs

April 5, 2006 08:27 PM | Link to this

can anyone tell me why Al isn’t playin’ tonight…didn’t catch the game last night…and now checkin’ my fantasy team stats…..it say’s 000 for AL across the board…what’s the scoop?

By infamouskrs

April 5, 2006 08:52 PM | Link to this

also…would luv to “echo” the words of ENOUGH ALREADY’s statements…..well put and to the EXACT POINT ! Ando…..you will back me on this…I too, have always directed my darts at management/Woodson’s vision…..something has to change! A “basketball mind” should be put in place to mold and create a competitive NBA roster in the city of Atlanta!

i will never understand why a group of people would invest in something they have no intention of bettering to the best of their bankroll? why be a laughing stock of the owner’s meetings….please explain this to an average late 20’s year old playstation-playing adult american male….why is this such a TOUGH thought-process people………PRINT ENOUGH ALREADY’s post in the local paper !

By MrHughes

April 5, 2006 09:34 PM | Link to this

Josh Chilldress baby! This refuse to lose attidude is going to pay big dividends next year. The kids are definately growing up.

By bird dirt

April 5, 2006 10:18 PM | Link to this

number 23 tonight. props to jsmoove again. i was amazed recently when i was looking at this teams roster and realized that like 9 of the hawks are rookies or 2nd year players. i knew they were the youngest team, but d**n.

By Dennis

April 5, 2006 10:23 PM | Link to this

Running a franchise smart has got to be the priority of the Atlanta Spirit group. Owners that have not done this may have done well (usually not) for a few seasons, then because they’ve lost so much money they have to sell the team and dump salaries and it starts all over again. It’s not like it was years ago, the business side is just as important at the personnel side. People may not like everything BK does but I commend him on doing what he thinks is right anyway, WITH the backing of ownership which is a sign of leadership on BK’s part and a sign of strength from the leaders in supporting BK. Enough of the naysayers! Rome wasn’t built in a day and this thing was not going to turn around overnight, especially with the youth. BUT, look at what we got!!!!!! JJ, J-Smoove, J-Chill, Al, T-Lue, Zaza, DONTA (did you see him!) and Marvin has not even come into his own. We’re going to be scary if ownership keeps it’s patience and continues to do what it’s been doing. And the trading of Boris?? You can stick a stiff off the street on the Suns team and he’d be great - Nash is a baller as is Marion. Boris’ got some game but again, he didn’t seem to have the heart the guys we got now. As MJ once said, heart is what separates the good from the great. And our guys didn’t fold tonight, they hung tough and beat a VETERAN team! Go Hawks!

By Dennis

April 5, 2006 10:25 PM | Link to this

Another thing…they won this game tonight after a TOUGH loss last night that could have taken everything out of them. Minnesota’s not doing well but they are a veteran team, and back to backs, especially tough ones, usually spell LOSS but not with our guys.

By Glutton For Punishment

April 5, 2006 10:41 PM | Link to this

This team is really exciting… Yes.. they have lost alot of games. But they are fun to watch and they are getting better. Looking at the way J Smith played last year, I would never expected him to be such a good passer and to have a well-rounded game. I am looking forward to the 2006-7 season…It should be fun…

By hawksnumba1fan

April 5, 2006 10:49 PM | Link to this

Well I could’nt be more proud of this team right now . The growth that the young guys are showing night in and night out makes me wonder, man we are only a PG and C away from doing some big things. We need to build this team around J-SMOOVE and JOE and guys like CHILL and MARVIN, I also think we should give GRUNDY a chance he’s been great so far.

By cordele

April 5, 2006 10:53 PM | Link to this

jj is our lead guard and that is what have us all calling him special. if he is move back to 2 what make him special will only be seen when the ” real point guard goes to the bench like the times nash was out hurt. if we get the bigs we need like the Heat,Pistons,Spurs,those small quick guards at the middle of the pack teams will think twice about going in the paint. our best games came after T Lou was hurt and JJ played most of the time with t-chill are marvin in the back court with him. for us to play well in the east the lead guards of the best teams are all big. G payton, G Arenis, J Kidd, C Billups, L James( listed as forward but lead guard anway)

By Young Jeezy

April 5, 2006 11:03 PM | Link to this

Seeing the effort the Baby Hawks are giving down the stretch of the season, I’m pretty impressed in Mike Woodson, to the point where I think anyone saying he should get fired at this point is crazy. Yeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh. Billy Knight’s future still should depend on what he does this offseason, if he can plug the gaping holes in the Hawks roster. Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. But I really think Woodson, just like his players, has improved a lot over the course of the season, and deserves his props. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh.

By reese

April 5, 2006 11:14 PM | Link to this

Al didn’t play tonight because he had a sore pectoral muscle. Does anyone know what the hawks record is when Al does not play. I missed the first half of the game, but enjoyed the way the played in the 2nd half. I hope that Royal Ivey is watching Grundy’s intensity on both the offensive and defensive end. He was playing like that when he first got the opportunity to play 4 minutes at the beginning of the 1st and 3rd quarters. He seems to be content playing a few minutes a game and does not want to make a mistake.

By CD

April 5, 2006 11:17 PM | Link to this

I think J Smoove has some serious star power. I would like to see him pull the trigger a little less but his shot will hopefully continue to develop. By next year he might be a 15pt, 7ast, 10board,3 block a night guy and that would start to move him into the league elite. Watching Shawn Marion I think Josh can get there and have his kind of all around game. Hopefully by next summer the Spirit will have their problems worked out so that they can be ready to keep the Joshes happy.

By CD

April 5, 2006 11:25 PM | Link to this

Marvin better be ready to start putting up some serious numbers next year. If he doesn’t pick it up Chris Paul won’t be the only guy in the draft we might be saddened that we passed on.

By Steve B.

April 5, 2006 11:59 PM | Link to this

1rst sorry dude G.Payton isn’t the lead gaurd, he’s only starting to let J.Williams rest till the play-offs. 2nd I’m not going to bash management untill the whole Belkin thing is over. For all of you who think Belkin’s A great guy he’s selfishly fighting this court battle to hold the HAWKS back. This guy dosn’t care about the HAWKS never has never will. He knows what he’s doing to this franchise and I think he’s happy about it. Some of us bash HAWKS brass every day on this sight and I think that’s what he wants. Belkin said from the get go J.J. wasn’t worth that kind of money but he would agree to pay just not to the deal. J.J. is worth the money some of us think we gave up to much,but he is worth the money. If I don’t see improvement from HAWKS brass after this Belkin thing is over I’ll admitt I’m wrong and join in bashing them. But for the time being I’ll wait untill they can do their jobs with out some one throwing A monkey wrench(Belkin) in the works.

By HawksFanFromDecatur

April 6, 2006 01:26 AM | Link to this

I think tonight’s game was a preview of next year’s team. I actually didn’t see the game but I just caught the highlights on NBA TV. Smoove is looking like a Kirilenko clone more and more every day (17pts, 15rbs, 7asts, 3blks). We won the game without Harrington and honestly it didn’t seem like we missed him all that much.

I don’t think Harrington re-signs with us anyway because of the Hawks ownership situation. Since Belkin is still technically an owner all major signings will still have to go through him is some way or another and I know he’s not going to approve of committing $40-$50 million on Harrington, and IMO the Hawks don’t need him anymore anyway.

In the offseason I think we draft a big, hopefully get something back for AL in a S&T, sign a veteran FA PG and let Marvin and Smoove start a the 3/4 spots. Our young guys are improving by the game and I love what I saw out of Donta Smith, Grundy and Batista against NJ Tuesday night. I really think the Hawks are building something here for the long haul and I’m extremely excited about their potential.

By Young Jeezy

April 6, 2006 02:09 AM | Link to this

By taking up playing time from Marvin, Chills, and Batista and hogging the ball, Al Harrington is only hurting the team’s development. Ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. I hope we can sign and trade him for a point guard or a real big man. Yeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

By Andy

April 6, 2006 04:43 AM | Link to this

J smoove is amazing—period. The hawks will trade al in a sign and trade deal for a pick. Too bad this years draft is nothing special.

By MrHughes

April 6, 2006 04:49 AM | Link to this

Steve Belkin has been removed as NBA governor, so he no longer has power to block trades or make decisions on the day to day operations of the team. The Harrington situation is win win for the Hawks. I think we do a sign and trade. Even if we sign him he does not play out a year in a Hawks uniform. I love Al. He’s a great scorer and a good guy, but not a legitmate power forward. I’d rather us draft two bigs and maybe move Zaza to PF. Batista is a very solid backup, and I don’t see Edwards getting signifigant minutes here next year. With that said, I think the PG we drafted last year might be the solution to our problems. Our problems aren’t with the PG position. We could use one if Lue or Ivey departs. But, I’m happy with the status quo if we can keep everyone we have. Also, I like how Salim was starting to perform in the position. We are getting killed down low. Two legitmate bigs with a good low post game and defensive abilty will match the depth we have elsewhere on the floor. That is the most important thing this team is missing.

By A Thinking Fan

April 6, 2006 06:07 AM | Link to this

A young players perspective on the game winning play & shot, “It was like they were running from the cops (JC & TLue),” said Smith, who had 17 points and 15 rebounds. SMILE!

GO HAWKS!

By buddy

April 6, 2006 06:53 AM | Link to this

“Seeing the effort the Baby Hawks are giving down the stretch of the season, I’m pretty impressed in Mike Woodson, to the point where I think anyone saying he should get fired at this point is crazy.”

As someone who called for Woodson’s head on a platter earlier this year, I have to agree. I said early in the season that even if the Hawks didn’t have the talent to be competitive this year, we’d still be able to judge Woodson by how well the team improved over the season. Well, at this point I’m really excited about the Hawks making a run at the playoffs this year. These guys haven’t given up on themselves and they haven’t quit on Woodson. Great sign for this team’s prospects for the near future.

Also, a couple blogs ago Sekou or somebody suggested that we have a mock draft to put everybody on the record with their picks. I think this is a great idea. Sekou, do you think it might be possible to have a form set up like Bradley’s final four fiasco?

By buddy

April 6, 2006 06:55 AM | Link to this

er… next year.

By Basketball Princess

April 6, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

Wow, last nights game was really intense. I can remember that I was one to say earlier in the season that Josh had been working on his game over the summer. A lot of folks rode on me for that, but look at him now.

I can tell that we don’t need AL’s contributions, and we do need Chills. I like him and what he adds to the chmstry of ths team. Sorry chills, you can stay!

Estaban Batista- I’ll have to see a little bit more of him before I can retract his subtraction from the blog from the other day. It’s nice that he’s been getting more playing time and he had some key rebounds, and a assist for us in the 2nd half. He is showing a lot of personality down there in the middle and I like it, but I need a litte bit more before I make a brash decision. His timing was great when Mr. Man missed the shot; Batista had great timing and was right undeneath the basket to put it back up for 2. He seem to have a great realationship with the young fellows and blend in well too. The Jury in my book is still out on him though

These kid’s our growing up right before our eyes and they’re turning into stars, and I’m proud to be a fan since when there was nothing to be a fan about!

By buddy

April 6, 2006 09:38 AM | Link to this

I had this theory working that the Hawks needed to go after Mike James in the offseason. He’s close with Chris Bosh and will give whatever team he ends up with a better chance of landing Bosh when he becomes a free agent.

Then I read this:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/ArticlePrintFriendly&c=Article&cid=1143846635892&callpageid=969907729483

We don’t need another stat-obsessed player out to get a contract. We need a Nash-like point guard. Nash talks in that article about how passing is contageous, and with Josh Smith getting multiple 5+ assist games and our two guard known for getting other players involved, I think the Hawks are already looking good already in that department.

So what we need in a point guard is somebody who can bring the ball up against pressure and get the team into its offense, and who knows how to set up players where they like to score. I’d still take Jason Terry because of what he’s done on one of the top teams in the league. But I’ll pass on Mike James.

By MrHughes

April 6, 2006 11:42 AM | Link to this

I love JT, but he’s not the answer. Why take on a contract of that size with the amount of young players we’ll have coming up? I’d rather keep going with JJ, Ivey, theSniper and Lue than bring back JT. That way we get 3 bodies for less than what we’d pay for JT. With that said… Mike James isn’t the answer either. Ivey’s game has improved by leaps and bounds. I think a combo of him, Salim, JChill Lue (in the short term), Cenk Akoyl (in the long term) and JJ will cover us at guard. Running the offense is not the problem. The guys are doing a great job of creating opportunities. The issues are down low. Did anyone see how the Clippers dominated the Suns down low last night. That’s the kind of option we need. A nice big man that we can use to slow down the game and dominate the paint.

By CK

April 6, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

MMph MMMph Ughhh… sorry had to finish that last bit of shoe leather. Early in the season I said Woodson should go because he WAS unable to motivate and teach his young team to play the NBA game.

Well now I stand corrected. This team has come together and gives every game their full effort. If BK can pull some offseason magic then the Hawks will be the most improved team next year as long as they continue to give the kind of effort they have shown lately.

I am excited about the Hawks for teh first time in a long time. I live in a state that has the Magic and the Heat. but my heart is in ATl with the Falcons, Hawks aand Braves (i could care less about the Thrashers). Any way go Hawks and congrats on not giving up.

By CJ

April 6, 2006 12:29 PM | Link to this

I wouldn’t complain if Terry wanted to come back. He’d stabilize the pg spot even if he isn’t the perfect point.

By HB Ando

April 6, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

Have to agree with Buddy’s thoughts on Woodson. In fact I just finished a phone call with JHan before checking into the site and we had the same discussion (building on conversations we had back about 6 weeks ago) that you can’t judge Woodson until he’s given a balanced roster, IF the guys he does have are playing hard night in and night out. Well, they are. He’s teaching them what it takes to be successful as a pro and how to earn the big money they’re making. It also reinforces how important it has been, and will continue to be, that they not bring in any veterans who have a reputation for only playing for the money and giving less than full effort. A Jerome James or Tim Thomas would have been a horrible locker room presence for these guys.

So the onus is clearly on Billy and ownership to address this teams’ needs and set the stage for an off-season of active changes, if we are to realistically expect a bump up to the 35-40 win plateau next season. I still have serious doubts about whether those types of moves will occur, but the proof will be in the pudding.

Mr. Hughes, please share with us some objectifiable insight as to why we should expect Cenk to ever show up as a viable NBA player. Very few 2nd rounders make the NBA, much less unknown Turkish 18 year olds. Last I heard he was a non-factor on his Euro team, so I was just wondering what you based your expectation that he would soon be a contributor at point guard upon.

By Basketball Princess

April 6, 2006 12:53 PM | Link to this

exactly CJ, and it wouldn’t put royal in a position where he is not getting quality PT. It would be enough to go around.

By HB Ando

April 6, 2006 12:59 PM | Link to this

And as much as I believed a pass-first point guard would be optimal, Johnson’s versatility would mesh nicely with Terry in the back court. Terry would give us tremendous 3-point shooting, with the added benefit of improving our transition game even more. Imagine how well this team would run if we added Terry and Noah. Then comparisons to the Suns would not be nearly as far fetched as they were earlier this season. Final draft slot, a completed list of early entry candidates, and the price we fetch for a sign-and-trade for Al will define whether this team is going to take it to the next level next season.

If we don’t pick up a viable big man via draft or trade, and we don’t obtain a starting quality point in similar fashion, we can only realistically expect 30 wins next season. Heart can only take you so far in the NBA. And losing wears down the proudest of players. Changes are necessary as much for the impact on the court, as the impact additions would have on the psyche of the young guys we have here. These guys have to believe that the organization is going to give them what they need to compete next year. If they don’t, you can only expect morale, and competitive desire, to suffer.

By tb

April 6, 2006 02:02 PM | Link to this

Hey Ando

Maybe if you speed the broken 33 up to 78 I could at least laugh at it.

Biatch…Moan…BUMP…Biatch…Moan BUMP

When you rebuild your team relying on young players to mature, you have to give it time.

BK added The Josh’s last year

Marvin, JJ aand Zaza this year and there will be more to come this off-season.

While I also await the players that will upgrade our PG and C positions, I do not fail to acknowledge the work that has been done.

You really should either develop some other topic/argument or at least put yours to rest until the Draft and FA and your next big opportunity to BIATCH & MOAN

By The Flash

April 6, 2006 02:45 PM | Link to this

TB,

I got an idea. Maybe you could chose a new name, how about “the shadow,” because you seem to be hiding.

To say that young players improved with a year’s experience is some profound observation. I mean, you or anyone else expected something different? And, that they continue to compete well, down the stretch. You really are surprised at that? Think that is a tribute to whom, Woodson? Why? Explain how Woodson gets credit for either of those things. I’m not saying that he doesn’t, but come out of the shadows and say something meaningful.

Ando’s criticisms of management are well documented and specific. He has not put down the play of JJ, JS, JC Z, etc. He has said that BK gave up too much for JJ, way too much and made a very careful and sophisticated case for just why. You disagree, tell us why!!! He has also criticized management for not having made needed moves during the year to give this team a chance to make the playoffs, which it realistically had, and thus avoid the loss of a top pick next year. You think he was wrong. Spell it out shadow man; match the guy, we’re all ears. You, on the other hand, are all mouth, just so much blah blah blah blah.

And, let me add one more, if you are happy that they did not either sign Al to a long term deal early in the season or trade him before the deadline, and think that we are in a better position because of that, by all means, shadow man, enlighten us.

And, for all you guys who are so sure that Al is gonna sign and trade, me, I would not bet the ranch. I’m betting that there is a decent chance that the man will go where he wants, and that if there isn’t a sign and trade to be had there, he goes anyway. Put that one under your pillow shadow man, and let us all know when you wake up and actually having something of substance to say. You know, we are all waiting.

By The Flash

April 6, 2006 03:01 PM | Link to this

Sekou,

You surprise me a little bit. The coach from Indy praises the club, for competing really hard, yadayadayada. Did you ask him if he’s making a play on our guy, looking to hook him and give nothing in return, or not value in return, or you figure he was just being generous. And, Carter, now there’s an authority on playing hard. Does NJ covet our guy? Does Al fit into their system? Those are the questions I’d be asking, actually I am asking. One hand patting our back, the other in our pocket. Yeah, I know, I read too many cheap novels; still, this thing with Al, scares me. Until whatever gets done gets done, I’m looking in dark corners.

Shadow man, so you know where I stand, I’d have locked the man in to a long term deal or traded him before the deadline, whether I intended to keep him long term or not. Now you can do some more blah blah blah about how tired … . Or, are you gonna surprise us with something of a substance. That’s what I thought!

By tb

April 6, 2006 03:07 PM | Link to this

Flash: “To say that young players improved with a year’s experience is some profound observation. I mean, you…… And, that they continue to compete well, down the stretch…..Think that is a tribute to whom, Woodson? Why?………….”

tb: “I took the same position as Ando back in Oct/Nov and again as the trade deadline approached. I wanted and still want BK to move Al to balance our roster. I posted questions each time a C/PG switched teams. I posted trade possibilities involving Al and PG/C combo’s.

I have always communicated here with the sole purpose of stating and developing my positions.

The thing is, our team, our coach and my position have evolved in the last year and in the last few months.

If you can find me in the shadows you will notice that all of my posts will either be to take a position, argue someone else’s position or argument or to simply cheer good progress by the Hawks….or the evolution of people’s positions and ideas and disposition on this blog.

By The Flash

April 6, 2006 03:19 PM | Link to this

So, where do you think we stand on the Al thing now; better or worse than if we had taken a definitive move before, as in way before, the trading deadline. You haven’t said.

And, do you think that it is in the nature of things that a young team will get and mature over the course of a season or not. I came on this blog preaching patience, saying that the needed ingredient, among all others, is trust. I still think so and have no evidence that that exists. Are you saying that Woodson has the players’ trust? BK? The owners? What precisely do you base that on? That would be a take. The rest is just cheer leading, TB.

The only thing that anyone did that could possibly be seen as engendering trust this year was letting Delk go to Detroit for nothing. But, that, my man, is a double edge sword. We wasted that guy’s talents, he is playing point and second on Detroit, right behind the starters, and got no time whatever here. Why? You know? Anybody, including the other players know? If there ain’t a pretty g-d damn good answer, so much for trust. And, why did they keep the team and Al dangling in the air like plucked chickens through the trading deadline? A good answer? What, pray tell, is it? Or is that another thing we take on faith? Better still, do the players? Come on, shadow man, say something of substance!

By tb

April 6, 2006 03:29 PM | Link to this

“Are you saying that Woodson has the players’ trust? BK? The owners? What precisely do you base that on? “

You ask me a question and then act like I’ve answered. I’ve brought up those issues in a while.

We might try to keep it to one blog.

By The Flash

April 6, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

Shadow man, that’s what I thought you’d say. Nothing!

By MrHughes

April 6, 2006 04:02 PM | Link to this

@HB Ando

I don’t expect Cenk to be a contributor soon. But, I think that he’ll look much better with a few years under his belt. I see him coming here when he’s 20-21. According to Hawks.com the kid is 6’6” and he’s only 18. And, he was a major contributor in the European Junior Championships. Cenk averaged 33.3 mpg, 18 ppg, 3.6 rpg, 3.9apg, 2.9 spg and was listed as a combo guard. He’s described as an incredible decision maker with great court vision. So, the talent is there. From what I understand he’s not starting at 2 guard because there’s an established star there, but they’d considered using him at the point. With that being said, I’m not hitching the wagon to a guy picked 59. If a talent like Donta ends up in the dleague I would imagine the same for Cenk. But, this pick was a chance. And, at 59 I like this chance. Clearly, you can’t argue with BK’s eye for talent. The main argument people make against Cenk is his lack of athleticism. I’ll take someone not as athletic because with the Joshes, Marvin, Donta, and Salim we have plenty of athleticism. As for 2nd rounders… We picked up Royal and Donta in the second round. I’ve been happy with their contributions. I think Royal is going to continue to improve. You can complain about his lack of minutes and ink on the stat sheet, but it’s obvious that he plays a key role on this team. He plays solid defense by drawing charges and often taking on the opposing pg. The team started play much better when he began starting and giving Lue time to rest up on the bench. Royal’s going to continue to grow in this position just as Josh Smith has grown into a much better playmaker through practice with the coaches. Between Joe, Salim, Chill, Ivey and Lue we don’t need to go out an get another PG. We need big bodies that can dominate the paint. Two big bruisers will compliment Zaza’s game, make the whole team better and allow us to not get dominated nightly on the glass. When we begin to control the paint instead of playing 2 (PF and C) on 1.5 (Al and Zaza) the team will begin winning the close games we’ve lost this year. The only reason Al plays 4 is because he’s in the East. It’s time to ship him somewhere that needs a 3 or a #2 scorer. You can’t argue with his offensive skills and character. Add that to what we get from trading Al, the development of a rookie like Este and the draft… And, baring injury the Hawks will compete for the 6th/7th spot next year because they’ll have depth at every position.

By tb

April 6, 2006 04:41 PM | Link to this

You got it Hughes. Time for some people to find another loser to delve in negativity with.

C’mon BK finish it up right; Hawks going to the playoffs in 007

By buddy

April 6, 2006 05:16 PM | Link to this

I won’t be surprised if AH signs elsewhere without doing a sign and trade. He’s really not a good enough player to pull a max contract. And if he walks away from the Hawks, we’re already under the cap so his contract would just come off the books and give us additional cap room to pursue free agents. The rumor I keep hearing though is that Isiah will look to trade for him, since a sign and trade is the only way the Knicks can take on one more bad contract. That would probably land us Channing Frye, which wouldn’t be bad.

By The Flash

April 6, 2006 05:49 PM | Link to this

Buddy, Channing Frye would be a terrific get for Al, especially at this point. The Knicks would really prefer Al to Frye? The times I saw the kid, I was really impressed. Why do you think LB is willing to let the kid go?

By HB Ando

April 6, 2006 05:59 PM | Link to this

Hughes, thanks for the update on Cenk. Someone else had said he was averaging around 3 points a game earlier this season. Good stuff.

TB, only time will tell whether the moves we all have begged for, and continue to beg for, will happen. If they don’t, what will you have to say then? As I said, Woody has certainly evolved my opinion on his ability to reach some of the young guys. My point about changes to PG and center, have been that we didn’t make any moves this season when they were holes for us all year long. Combine that with the fact that we’ve, collectively, come to the conclusion that the lack of moves might have been due to the ownership difficulties. So all I said was that if those issues don’t get resolved by this summer, why should we realistically expect any significant changes? Where I see analysis and valid questions, you see b***. If you can’t wrap you mind around the depth of my opinions, I can’t help you. I’ve said before that if my assessment of the overall situation was positive, I’d be the first to change my tune. I just call ‘em like I see ‘em. As far as what happens from here, we don’t have to agree. Like I said, the proof will be in the pudding.

But we’re here to offer our opinions, so my skin is thick enough for you disagree without worrying too much about it. If you ever contribute a unique thought or original opinion, I’ll be happy to give it my attention. I won’t hold my breath.

By HB Ando

April 6, 2006 06:15 PM | Link to this

Hughes, did a little research. The numbers you are quoting are from last summers’ EuroYouth, 18 and under championships, not from his professional work this season. Here’s what draft.net had to say about him leading into last years’ draft (and he’s 6’4, not 6’6):

“Surprisingly declared for 2005 NBA draft. Has a tremendous personality and heart. Good size, but lacks athleticism. Skilled PG with leadership qualities. Has good size and if he grows more his chances will improve. Behind the boyish appearance hides a born winner, a leader who set the standard for runner-up Turkey. He is a natural shooting guard, although he also has become a good point guard thanks to his excellent vision and capacity of leadership, and despite not having great leaping ability and certain lack of speed, which perhaps restricts to him to being a SG in the future. He is a streaky shooter, but he connects on the most important and difficult shots. His defense is suspect and it he’s not too good in 1-on-1, but he has a special ability to anticipate passes and to turn them easy baskets on the counterattack. He’s a great player for Europe, but may lack the quickness and athleticism necessary to be much in the NBA.”

So he’s likely too slow and unathletic to play either the point or in the NBA, according to this assessment. His actual season stats in the Euroleague, regular season and playoffs combined are 13 minutes, 3.3 ppg and .5 assists. Now the Euroleague is a hard place for young guys to get minutes, so I don’t view that as an absolute indicator of his potential, but the numbers you provide, being for the 18 and under Euro championships, is essentially high school all-star competition.

BTW, I always like it when you Hawks employees get on the blog and try and drum up support for the organization and Billy. It’s sweet.

By buddy

April 6, 2006 07:02 PM | Link to this

See this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/400201p-339050c.html

And this:

http://hawks.realgm.com/articles/548/20060308/willharringtonflythecoupe/

By tb

April 7, 2006 01:10 AM | Link to this

Ando, you need to come down off of your pedestal. You have never written anything on this blog that I “couldn’t get my mind around”.

You seem to be of the opinion that there are people on this blog whose reading comprehension and overall anaytical skills don’t allow them to see into the depths of your self percieved brillince.

You continuously repeat the same point over and over, over a long period of time, and anytime someone actually finds flaw in your reasoning or simply disagrees with something you say, you come back, repeat your same argument (again) and offer condecending remarks like “If you can’t wrap you mind around the depth of my opinions, I can’t help you”

Statements like that reveal quite a lot about a persons character and intelligence.

Don’t need your help. Just don’t care for your position. You continuously bash BK while totally failing to give him any credit for having actually drafted well and resisted trades that would have put us right back into the pre-rebuilding mode (over paid, undermotivated players, maxed cap).

Oh, and yeah, the job that Woody is doing is also a positive reflection on BK.

Cheers

By MrHughes

April 7, 2006 10:37 AM | Link to this

@HB Ando Dude, I don’t work for the Hawks. That is the dumbest thing I’ve read in awhile. As for when the stats are from… That much should be obvious because anyone with a 5th grade education knows junior means under 18. I even explained why he’s not wracking up stats with his current team. So, don’t insinuate that I’m trying to be dishonest. Clearly, the kid is not getting the playing time we thought he would. It would not surprise me to see him in the dleague if he doesn’t get signifigant minutes next year. Cenk is listed from 6’4” to 6’6” on various sites. It’s not hard to imagine the kid growing a few more inches. He’s only 18. I would not call the Junior Championships the equivalent of a high school basketball game…

“We think he’s a solid young player who contributes to his team at multiple positions,” Knight said. “He will be playing in the European championships this summer, so we will get a chance to see him play again then.”

Clearly, he played well… FYI: Cenk’s old team is where Peja Drobnak ended up and Turkolu’s younger brother is there too.