Hawks

By Astro Joe

November 8, 2005 04:24 PM | Link to this

If Childress had Smith’s athleticism, he would have been the third overall pick in last year’s draft. If Smith had Childress’ athleticism, he would have been a second round pick.

With JJ playing SG, we are clearly asking him and Al to carry the offensive load, which means what we need are role players around them. And right now, Childress’ game is much more solid all-around than Smith’s. People complain about Childress’ shot, but his shooting percentage is better than Smith’s, so who cares if it looks good or not.

I don’t see how forcing a teenager to earn his time can be a bad thing. And for fans who only come to the arena to see a slam dunk, they should stay home and watch ESPN highlights instead.

P.S. I wonder if Memphis fans debated Dahntay Jones vs. Shane Battier?

By John Reid

November 8, 2005 04:28 PM | Link to this

It’s not only the right move to place him on the bench, it’s the best move in the long run for Josh Smith. He needs to learn how to develop better shot selection, and also it will keep him humbled after expectations blew out of the water unfairly.

Tonight’s lineup will be the best one Atlanta can place on the floor. JJ is best at the 2 and can displace Lue. Childress is the most developed of the young trio of he, Smith, and Marvin. Also, with Al coming back that provides huge scoring in the front court.

As for Smith he needs to take this time to display the energy he showed Saturday night on a consistent basis. Once he does that he will become a starter again.

I think an even bigger question would be, will he display the goods to be a franchise player down the road?

By Jesse

November 8, 2005 04:37 PM | Link to this

I think it’s great to bring Smith off the bench and make him earn his minutes. Chill is a more polished and complete player, plus I think he’s better as a small forward anyway.

To me a lineup featuring Lue, Johnson, Childress, Harrington, and Pachulia is far more balanced and experienced than one with Johnson and Childress playing out of position, and with the inexperienced Smith at small forward.

Plus, bringing Marvin, Salim, and Smith off the bench gives us more depth and excitement off the bench than we’ve had in a long time.

By Beck

November 8, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this

JSmoove (help this kid with a nickname PLEASE) needs the bench. Nip the ego early and give the guy some perspective for the game. If he pouts…oh well….growing up is supposed to hurt a little so you remember the lessons you learn.

It’s a bit of a tempest in a teacup though, I mean, it’s not like the kid is T. Owens or something. He’s 19 with nothing but a slam dunk trophy on his resume. The more we hype it, the more his ego will expand. Let ‘em sit and learn.

By Chinky Eyed Hawk

November 8, 2005 05:01 PM | Link to this

OH… this lineup tonight with Smith coming off the bench is by far the best option we have right now. I agree with Jesse that having Smith,Marvin, and Salim come off the bench will be much better than having any of them starting right now.
The thing with Smoove is that he is being overrated by everyone who simply watched the dunk contest and sportscenter highlights. If you actually watch the games, he sometimes seems to drift off in games, like he is only there to dunk and block shots. We as fans have placed even greater pressure on both him and Chill do to little success they had at the end of the year, when IMO both are clearly bench players right now. Of course everyone is looking at potential down the road which I believe both have a great bit in them, but I promise after this losing season, if there isn’t a great improvement, heads will start rolling That’s why I would suggest moving Al and Childress NOW….bring in some frontcourt player and hopeful a pg and things will look much better for the hawks in the future. This gives them time to gel with a new team without half the season down the drain. This way IF the JJ@PG experiment doesn’t pan out, we still have a deep team with the trading bring in a post presence and a PG. When draft time comes around all we would need is to move Smoove back to the 3 with Marvin, JJ and Salim at the 2 and Lue, and a few point guards. I promise the Hawks would look much deeper next year.

By ray

November 8, 2005 05:03 PM | Link to this

Bench time won’t hurt his game, it should help improve it. This should be motivation and will help determine whether he is the type of ball player who will use it as such or just pout and not learn anything.

By Scott

November 8, 2005 05:16 PM | Link to this

Does not matter what Josh starts—the bumblin, stumblin Hawks won’t win 20 games this year.

By Lamont

November 8, 2005 05:54 PM | Link to this

I was expecting more of Josh by this far. I thought he had worked on his outside game, ball handling, passing, but it seems to me he hasnt gotten much better. Benching him is a great message and will benefit him and the Hawks in the near future. Anyway, he isn’t the only one having trouble by this far. Johnson needs to step up and put up better numbers. In Phoenix he shared the pressure with his teammates. In Atlanta he must take over. That’s why he’s making that much money. I guess Al is really playing at the level I was expecting. I doubt if he’s not the best player we’ve got. I think Salim and Marvin have shown they can grow if they’re given time. I hope Zaza plays better from now on since he had a tough time playing in those 3 first games. I like coach Woodson trying to turn things around. You have to gain respect on the court, working hard on a daily basis. I’m not sure if Josh Smith has understood it so far. So, come off the bench and show that you can be consistent and helpful, otherwise, you better warm our bench.

By Billy

November 8, 2005 06:27 PM | Link to this

New York Post: “Clips are getting plenty of calls re the availability of Chris Wilcox. But LA’s in-house sentiment is the insanely talented forward-center isn’t going anywhere.”

By doc

November 8, 2005 06:46 PM | Link to this

there goes fantasy land.

By justin

November 8, 2005 08:57 PM | Link to this

Hey Sekou, Why is it that when I’m in the Augusta area, where I live, I can’t catch the games on TS, but when I go to Columbus the games are on? It’s hard to keep even your most devoted fans (me) when you can’t get them the games.

By Billy

November 8, 2005 09:26 PM | Link to this

AAAHHHH!! It’s turning into another blowout. Why didn’t Zaza play more?

BTW, two good back-to-back games for JJ.

And we still need a PF.

By rainman

November 8, 2005 09:44 PM | Link to this

woodson should not be in this league. every move killed us took zaza out and ss out brought in lue and smith and they blew it.

By Curious

November 8, 2005 10:46 PM | Link to this

Woodson May Be The Problem:

With loads of young talent and two consecutive lottery picks, coaching may be the reason the lowly Hawks seem to be allergic to winning.

With numerous reports by Woodson that his “young players” are not catching on, one must began to wonder when the vets and coaching will take some of the preverbial(sp) heat.

Speaking of the youngsters, one of the lone bright spots as well as THE most entertaining Hawk, seems to be the face of controversy(sp) in Atlanta. (Mild mannered Josh Smith for those that haven’t seen the reports). Is anyone going to acknowledge that after only 2 games Coach Woodson and Marvin Williams, the teams number two draft pick, are not on good terms? Seems kind of early for shouting matches. Yes, shouting matches. The usual cool-headed Williams has already been pushed to that point with Woodson. Are we ready to blame coach Woodson yet?

How about this…Al Hairington quit on the team last season. Usually a hard-nosed, go hard type, Hairington didn’t want to push himself for coach Woodson. Sorry. The team. Not to mention that after acquiring Joe Johnson and Zaza Pachulia in the offseason the team is showing no signs of surpassing last season’s abysmal 13 wins. Are we ready to blame Coach Woodson yet?

Well, I am. And it shouldn’t take another sub-20 win season for everyone to realize it!!

By L

November 8, 2005 11:18 PM | Link to this

we cant just blame Josh Smith for this 0 and 4 start and Childress is not a better player than Smith or Williams he sucks if ya ask me the team as a whole is not playing well wow I never expected Williams to get in a shouting match with Coach, I think we need another coach who will make these guys work hard on the defensive end because defense wins game

Harrington can be blamed and so can Johnson, Lue has been ok but nothing special .

if you are going to bench Smith, bench Childress, and every other Hawks cause no one is playing with passion for more than 1 half anyway it’s not fair to Josh to blame him for the Hawks lost when every player on this team has done lots of stuff wrong

By Billy

November 8, 2005 11:41 PM | Link to this

I don’t know if Woodson is a good coach or not. But I do think it’s reasonable to believe the Hawks aren’t going to be good with him.

Unfortunately, the way it usually goes is coach comes in with young team and only internal progress is made (don’t see is in the W-L column). Then bring in a different coach (usually more experienced or just connects with the players better) and things start to turn around. Look at what happened in Denver last year.

And Marvin doesn’t seem a like a yelling kind of guy. Does Woodson really think making everyone angry is going to make them play better. I’m all for discipline, but not sure the yelling and anger we sometimes read about is necessary.

By L- DOG

November 8, 2005 11:51 PM | Link to this

I totally agree with you Billy yelling never helps especially with Men, the blame can not be placed solely on Josh, Marvin, it has to be placed on the coaches also apparently they aint coaching right

By jay

November 9, 2005 12:20 AM | Link to this

I think the best move for the Hawks is to not play Josh Smith right now. He looks like he used to back in high school with his i dont give a crap attitude. He needs to just sit and realize hes not as good as he was in high school. Ive known Josh for awhile and know that when he gets this attitude going it effects his game badly. He looks like hes not trying to get better. So Josh if you read this get your lazy a* in the game and play some ball, you should be grateful to get paid millions to play ball. I think he just lost alot of his fan base early in the season. How about you play with a little heart for once and sit your ego aside. Brother ive known you for so long and your disappointing the hell out of me!!

By Billy

November 9, 2005 12:41 AM | Link to this

Also, remember Tim Floyd and then the transition to Scott Skiles? I think it’s just the way of things. First coach on a young team with potential is the lame duck. Takes the second guy to get them to deliver - also it takes time for the kids to grow up.

By mykhalc

November 9, 2005 12:52 AM | Link to this

man, what a drag to know that i could actually be so on point after ONLY observing the GS game… 2) i was NOT impressed with woodson as a nba coach at all. granted i was watching the local station feed but he just seemed ‘not quite ready for prime time’. and the body language between him and marvin as they crossed paths did not seem to be good. i could be wrong but that’s what i picked up??!! seems like if the hawks are gonna go with youth they really need someone coaching wise that KNOWS how to win in the nba. i don’t know who’s available but that would be the first thing i would look at. especially after seeing the kinda defense the team played!! YIKES!!!

i did not get to watch the game here in SF but from reading the blog comments i can only say WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE POSITIVE ATTITUDE THAT WAS COMING FROM EVERYONE ON THE TEAM AT THE START OF PRE-SEASON?????

i’m back to my coaching change!! and woodson JUST MIGHT be an ok coach (tho i think not) but how does a good coach NOT KNOW how to reach each player on his team??? and i realize that some people, especially 19 yrs olds, can think they have all the answers but for such a shift to already be prevalent (or at least noticable) regarding the team is just not professional and should NOT be accepted by mgmt, coaches or the players!! well, maybe we are seeing a cost to building a team thru SUCH young cats!! i might not have pushed the panic button yet but my finger is ridin’ it tite!! thanks for posting so i can follow the team thru you guys. GO HAWKS (but come on fellas, get it together,damn??!!!)

By Reese

November 9, 2005 01:16 AM | Link to this

Well, I’ve watched all 3 games on TV and I went to the laker game. The Lakers are not a good team. Basically, they stand around and watch Kobe Bryant make acrobatic layups and jump shots. Kwame and Mihm basically just just stand around and put their hands up when defenders come into the lane. But they are tall and make the offensive players change their shots. Devin George, Kobe and Lamar play in your face defense and do most of the shot blocking. Also, they seem to have a dominant point guard to lead the team, kobe and lamar are in great shape because they were doing most of the ball handling as well.

Now for the hawks. Josh Smith’s body was at the game but his mind was on the other side of town (I won’t say anything else about Josh because he didn’t put forth any effort).

Al Harrington is competing with Shareef Abdur Raheem for getting their shot blocked the most.

Tyronne Lue (please no more flagrant fouls, your going to hurt somebody) is playing the shooting guard and joe johnson is playing the point guard. Joe doesn’t seem to be in the same shape as Kobe. He started fading down the stretch. Also, teams have watched the Golden State game and know to apply intense pressure on Joe when he is handling the ball.

Josh Childress looks lost out on the court, he was too weak to muscle up against kobe and lamar. He can’t dribble past anyone. He may need to do like salim and just start moving further away from the basket to get his shot off. But, he might not be strong enough to shoot from that far out.

ZaZa needs to shoot more. He and Joe need to develop the Kobe mentallity when it comes to shooting. I haven’t looked at stats, but I would swear that Joe and Zaza combined didn’t take as many shots as kobe. ZaZa, I know that you can’t jump, but just do like kwame and mihm and give a little effort to stop the myriad of layups that the laker’s and other teams guards are getting. The lakers had to shoot 50% with all the layups they were making.

John Edwards and Batista look like they are living the NBA dream and are just happy to be on the court. They are moving at such a slower pace that than everyone else that all they can do is foul somebody.

By Reese

November 9, 2005 01:20 AM | Link to this

Correction, the lakers don’t have a dominant point guard to lead the team.

By Billy

November 9, 2005 01:35 AM | Link to this

Wonder if anyone else who was at the game would like to give their assessment of how the players played?

Being that I live on the other side of the world I don’t get to see these games.

By Billy

November 9, 2005 01:36 AM | Link to this

That’s: “their as-sessment…”

By CJ

November 9, 2005 01:40 AM | Link to this

This team needs a teacher not a coach…Woodson may make it until the end of the season but the writing is on the wall.

I’m not as high on these players as some others. Johnson couldn’t cut it in Boston..posted acceptible numbers on a loaded Suns team and all of a sudden he’s making Garnett money?? Childress, so weak he can’t finish in the post. Kid Josh Smith and subpar Lue. Harrington a NBA tweener who would play a support role on most teams. Stoudamire seems like he has promise..as has Williams at times but that’s about it.

By For Real

November 9, 2005 04:08 AM | Link to this

The Hawks suck! They aren’t going anywhere so they may as well play the young guys more. Not a well constructed team to compete in the East, no physical prescence what so ever. Not enough experience to compete with anybody in the West. They really need to go find some beef for the middle and a point guard with some physical prescence. Woodson may be a good coach with a veteran team, but does not appear to be good with handling and developing young talent. Time to lure Tubby from Kentucky as soon as possible!!

By THL

November 9, 2005 07:22 AM | Link to this

Who cares if he starts or comes off the bench. He’s not the biggest problem. These guys don’t care to play any defense at all…especially our centers.

By KENDALL ALLEN

November 9, 2005 08:15 AM | Link to this

IT’S FUNNY TO HEAR THE COACHES TALKING ABOUT REBUILDING AND THE FRONT OFFICE IS SIGNING CHECKS TO PLAYERS OVERPAID(JOE JOHNSON) AND THEN YOU HAVE YOUR FURTURE ON THE BENCH. WHAT HAPPEN TO ON THE JOB TRAINING ON THIS TEAM LET JOSH SMITH PLAY HE’S NOT HURTING THE TEAM AS A MATTER OF FACT THE COACHES IS HURTING JOSH SMITH DEVELOPMENT.WHAT THIS ORGANIZATION HAVE TO LOSE. THE FRONT OFFICE HAVE TO DO A BEETER JOB AND STOP GIVING MONEY AWAY (JOE JOHNSON DEAL WAS A WASTE)THAT DEAL SET THIS TEAM BACK 5 YEARS PERIOD!!!!!!!!

By Keith_PTC

November 9, 2005 09:28 AM | Link to this

I was at the game last night and Josh Smith’s performance was a joke. He played horrendous defense letting anyone he guarded free access to the lane. When I drove to the basket after 2 dribbles he would then either have the ball stripped or have his pass stolen. Josh Childress looked weak and lost out there. Za Za had no confidence and 3 or 4 picked off passes. Joe Johnson played aggressive defense against Kobe and I thought he did a good job against him. My hope for the Hawks this years is 18 wins if Johnson stays healthy. Another looooooooooooooooong year!!!!

By Astro Joe

November 9, 2005 09:47 AM | Link to this

800-4MAHORN or any other coach. In addition to the obvious lack of leadership and ability to teach & connect with his young players, take a look at our assistant coaches. The staff that Woodson has put together seems equally as non-descript as our entire franchise. Why don’t we have a former player (like an Antoine Carr or Tree Rollins) to work with the big men? Why don’t we have Mark Price to teach the PGs how to run a team? Why don’t we have an ex-head coach (like Lefty Driesell) to help Woodson manage the team? If BK fires Woodson (which is very unlikely) there does not appear to be anyone on the staff who can step up and assume the job. Woodson is overmatched to coach the Hawks. Maybe he could be lucky like Stotts and get another job coaching a more veteran team, but this guy does not need to be coaching one of the youngest teams in the NBA.

Oh and Sekou, remember when you indicated the Hawks may try to run this year? Bob Neal said that through the first 3 games, the Hawks were averaging 5 fast break points per game. 5! What a sad, sad joke this team has become.

By jason

November 9, 2005 10:09 AM | Link to this

1st off kendall allen who’s your connect? because obviously your smoking that good,good…joe johson, when he guarded kobe did the best job on him and gave it to kobe on the other end as well. last year i was the first person to push for more josh smith playing time but, so far this season he hasnt earned it. his body language on the court last night suggested he shouldn’t be playing period! if you dont want to be out there dont but don’t whine about playing time when your seat gets warm. maybe its just me but marvin williams should be the starter, yes he will make mistakes but i would much rather see him shoot and bang than j-chill go to the hole with that weak sh*t! Zaza needs a few more touches he has probably been the most consistent player with effort on this team (have josh smith sit and make him watch pachulia’s effort for the entire practice today). j-smith your too good of a talent to dog it, kobe is one of the best and never takes a play off and you aint kobe pimp so think about that!

By Scott

November 9, 2005 10:20 AM | Link to this

We all knew Knight left this team for dead in the offseason by not acquiring any muscle, post presence, interior defender/rebounder and a shot blocker. We all knew this, but Knight held on to both Josh’s, passed on Chris Taft and other big men, and whiffed on free agent big men. BUT it sounds like Woodson is starting to get a tad bitter as well, for his comment about the Lakers scoring 20 layups or more. Sounds like the BK/Woodson friendship could be souring for Woodson probably disagrees with that idiot Knights all-forward lineup which produces no defense, rebounds, blocked shots, or wins. The sooner Knight is gone, the better. ATTN: Atlanta Spirit and that nimcompoop Michael Gearon - get off your butts and get rid of this moron!

By jason

November 9, 2005 10:22 AM | Link to this

oh yeah, josh smith doesnt win or lose the game by himself but we expect more from him. jay bilas said if anyone was to be a bust out of last year’s draft it was him, you shut his mouth with your play from last year where you asserted maximum effort. this year, YOU ARE MAKING PERRENIAL IDIOT JAY BILAS LOOK LIKE A GENIUS!!!!!!!!

By Jameyan (True Hawks Fan)

November 9, 2005 10:55 AM | Link to this

That’s It! I have had it with this franchise! Somebody has to go in the ATL. Mike Woodson/ BK can be the first to go out there. Mike Woodson especially he shows no emotion or any will to win out there. He leads by exmaple. After we got shammed in the Portland game he could have thrown a tirade, a chair or something instead he just talked to refs and walked off the court. Lawrence Frank the coach of the Nets went ballistic after the Nets and Heat game after he felt Vince Carter was fouled. Show me something Mike! BK I love the drafting of Josh Smith at 17 but you passed on AI2 and Deng for Childress i don’t think so. I love Marvin Williams because i am a Tar Heel fan but we didn’t need him. We had a chance with 3 point guards and didn’t get any. Chris Paul/Deron Williams/Ray Felton are all playing great and they have winning records so fae. As for us 0 wins Since we do have Marvin let him start I love his aggressiveness. A matter of fact BK why can’t we get a big man or at least let the fans know what are you doing because I am getting a headache from losing for 7 years. To fix this problem Zaza,JJ,SS,Marvin,Al, can stay. Everybody else is trade bait. Get them out including coaches. Since BK don’t want to tell us here are a few trade possibilities. Delk/D.Smith/Childress for Marbury/Mo Taylor. Delk/Childress for Wilcox and a draft pick. Just do something soon because otherwise we might just break the record for losing. i don’t know about you ATL but I am tired of losing and being a laughing stock.

By Clyde

November 9, 2005 11:15 AM | Link to this

Let’s not forget who built this Hawks team. Billy Knight dismantled a team with potential and made it into a team with no hope at all. Lets not forget Billy helped another team win a championship when he gave Rasheed Wallace away for Bob Sura. Billy Knight is worse than Pete Babcock.

By Rod

November 9, 2005 11:18 AM | Link to this

I have been a defender of BK from day one, but this is really getting rediculous. I mean really, two offseasons, no quality big men. Don’t get me wrong, Zaza has done good in my opinion, but he needs help. He’ll bang and rebound, but he is not a dominant presence in the paint. I still think we need a bruiser at the PF, and let JJ and Al handle the perimiter game. Heck, let Salim get involved more. I think once he (Salim) gets comfortable, he will be our PG.

By MJK

November 9, 2005 11:51 AM | Link to this

Looks like another brutal year at Phillips for the Hawks. Steve Belkin was the only one of the owners that seemed to know what was best for the team in a strategic sense. Joe wasn’t worth that kind of money with the supporting cast he would be saddled with. Yao? Shaq? Ben Wallace? Garnett? There are a lot of guys that you might want to commit to and hope they’ll raise others around them, but Billy wasn’t thinking here.

I miss the heady days of Lenny Wilkens and Christian Laettner.

By Astro Joe

November 9, 2005 01:26 PM | Link to this

Hey, I’m all for a new leadership change at the GM & Coach positions, but let’s not actually believe that we sacrificed a chance to get KG by signing JJ. Shaq, Yao and probably Ben resigned with their own winning teams (that could offer more money than the Hawks). I don’t recall that the last Babcock team had “potential”. And Lenny Wilkins hasn’t made a true impact coaching since Gus Williams was the one man fast break. Before you know it, some of you guys will be blaming BK for trading Domanique, hiring Lon Krueger and drafting Doug Edwards.

By HB Ando

November 9, 2005 01:30 PM | Link to this

With nary a pickup on the waiver wire for SOME type of big body to help bang for boards, it begins to beg the question, are they intent on having the worst record again? Seems they might be. Another big body, someone elses unwanted will not turn this team into a winner. But it will make them a little more competitive on the defensive end, and at least say to the fans that there is a desire to win sooner than later. There is no such vibe being sent out by this franchise. Anyone who understands the reality of the NBA knows rebuilding with youth takes time. But this team doesn’t have the necessary pieces to win ballgames.

What I saw last night:

-Further evidence that Johnson isn’t a point guard. Way too much dribbling. Limited ball movement. Bad spacing. No offensive sets. Guys who shouldn’t be dribbling doing just that (Zaza needs to quit putting the ball on the floor). No real effort to take advantage of what Zaza DOES do well, which is establish position on the block and make a strong move to the basket (without a true PG, passes into the post are very difficult). Everyone trying to take their man off the dribble, instead of moving the ball to get quality shots. No ability to stop dribble penetration (because we going long and lean on the perimeter, which translates to too slow to guard smaller guards). No interior defensive presence to block or alter shots when the other team repeatedly got to the lane on the drive. No help defense.

What I saw that was good:

Joe Johnson is a tremendous scoring guard, who can shoot it and take it to the hoop. The sooner we get a real point guard on this team, the sooner we’ll see why we paid Johnson so much money. But he’s dribbling way too much, and other teams will increasingly just run two defenders at him to force him to give up the ball, figuring the other players on this team can’t hurt them (they’re right). You can tell he doesn’t have the confidence in his teammates to give the ball up early and move to get in better scoring position, with an expectation that he’ll get the ball back. So he dribbles the clock down and gets his shot off. When other guys get the ball, they want to take their turn shooting.

There is no evidence of any type of coaching going on out on the floor. It truly looked like the Hawks were playing pick up ball. There is no decision making out there. There is no shot blocking on the floor (our one shot blocker is now in the doghouse and needs to show some fire and heart to play his way back onto the floor; make this staff play you, Josh).

If ownership truly has complete faith in Billy Knight and this coaching staff, this ship is not going anywhere. They need to take a hard look at the decisions of this GM, versus choices he didn’t make. They need to take an immediate look at the way these players are responding to the coach, and they need to be talking to some of the better owners in the league about how they are perceived, and whether they need to change direction now, before wasting another season, under the guise of “rebuilding”.

By doc

November 9, 2005 01:39 PM | Link to this

fantasy land still.

hate to think what we would look like without jj.

reality, he was all we could get or hope for this year as most efforts were rebuffed. remember this occcurred after the draft. it wasnt like we didnt get into the mix with curry or again did i miss the FACT he came to town and left early, seems we may have enough of those kind of players right now.

cant go back in time folks to redo the draft but i do think this team is better than last years model at this time. lets see, what was it, kenny anderson, jon berry, antoine, al and collier with two rookies off the bench? id rather have jj than antoine any day, the first five today and the bench that is there now than last year but what did you really expect this early in the season as this team has only two starters back from last year and maybe we all over rated the josh’ last year? there was more than enough hype from the fans this summer about J SMOOVE to now be trashing him. where did you guys run to? it is going to take time and there will be changes but it isnt fantasy land. do you remember the drool? gee sekou, tell us about j smoove faster? bigger? jump shot? handles the ball better? sounds like everyone knew he was a work in progress or they wouldnt have asked those questions.

some sound like my kids who wonder why they cant drive a mercedes because they see one drive up beside them. ever had your wife driving down west paces ferry or habersham and look at you and ask why you dont go to the bank and get a loan so she can live in one, too? how about all that suggest all the deals on the blog, ever lost a sale when you gave it everything you got, ever make a bad decision and hire the wrong person though their resume looked good or fire someone who ultimately went on to make millions with the idea he tried to get you to act on, chose the wrong one to get married to? yes bk does it in front of us all and really only gets a few shots to do it each year. where is your reality, are you really that perfect? folks lighten up or recognize what you are doing, are you venting because it makes you feel better in your lives?

oh, i know i am a fan and i can say anything i want because; is it either i pay for a ticket or is it the one they make money so they deserve it? now do you really think all the negatives bring out anything positive in someone or something or that by being negative you are helping them to realize greater success? or is it it is more fun if we complain and realy raise a ruckous?

fantasy or reality. yes, i know the hawks are bad and have said it before, stand on record but am not going to continually trash the product knowing this, but expecting to maybe see some improvement even if it isnt in wins. but cant really expect it after four games with a makeover at three positions two untried as starters and one a journey man. if they look this way at forty games then will change expectations or goals but by then i am sure the spirit will have caught on as well.

By mykhalc

November 9, 2005 01:48 PM | Link to this

hb ando, really enjoyed your post and others in the past you have posted also. it really helps us that can view the hawks in person or on a regular basis.

my question to you and others is, what’s your take on a salim and JJ backcourt?? and did/do you see anyone developing ANY kinda of chemistry on the court?? JJ/salim?? JJ/AL?? ZAZA/AL?? you get my drift!!???

i was really happy with the JJ signing thinking that it showed a committment from the owners. and i just hate to see the team somehow find a way to ALWAYS have SOME KINDA ISSUE that keeps them from maximum effort. DAMN!!

By mykhalc

November 9, 2005 01:54 PM | Link to this

it really helps us that can view the hawks in person or on a regular basis.

s/b

‘cannot view’

well said DOC!!

By HB Ando

November 9, 2005 02:22 PM | Link to this

Doc, you’re points are well taken, as always. And I’m sure a little levity is appropriate. But I’m dialing down a little deeper here in terms of my gut instincts and my feel for the game of basketball. It’s not so much expecting to change what has already occurred, as much as it is compiling a profile of events that suggest a likely, and unwelcome, outcome. My point is that there is some evidence that decisions are being, and have been, made that were not/are not sound for this franchise. I traded e-mails with Sekou for some time, leading up to the draft. The issue if whether this team should take a franchise point guard or Marvin Williams was being addressed long before the draft. Now we look at the decision not to draft a PG, and we already see that the dynamics of this team, on the floor, suggest that was a mistake. Regardless of how good a player Marvin becomes. In other words, we look better now, and in the future, if Chris Paul is at the point and Joe Johnson is at the shooting guard. We’re one less move away from addressing our needs (granted this approach we’re taking would look much better if Greg Oden was available in next years’ draft, where we look to have a reasonable chance of picking first, from a record standpoint).

This is a Hawks blog. We’re here to talk about the Hawks. If we show up here daily, it’s inevitable that we’ll over analyze and overreact to what ever has occurred over the previous 24 hours, or we’d have little to add each day.

We may have a better assemblage of individual talent than we had last year. But does that mean we’ll be a better team? Is this franchise headed in the right direction? Or is there evidence to suggest that it has no direction at all? It’s clear this team will continue to lose on a regular basis. The question is, is that an understandable by-product of a healthy rebuilding project, or a bad experiment, predicated on faulty beliefs about what will work in the NBA, that is destined to further delay the much-needed return to respectability that this franchise needs to survive (this ownership group cannot afford years of failure-their pockets aren’t deep enough to lose tens of millions per year)?

I’m asking “is there reason to question the plan in place for rebuilding”? I believe the answer is yes. The GM’s decisions leading up to this point are not above question or reproach. And I believe the ownership group needs to take a hard look at what is occurring. Needs to ask for the opinions of well-respected NBA people, from outside the organization, on whether they should be concerned about the path they are being led down. Because I don’t think they have the time or money to spend 2-3 years going down this path, only to find it was a road to nowhere.

By Keith_PTC

November 9, 2005 02:35 PM | Link to this

I have a question for anyone who saw Josh Smith play last year in person. It seems like he is bigger than last year has this had an impact on his laterall movement? Also in seem him live for the first time he did not seem very explosive in his first step was he faster last year?

By gb

November 9, 2005 03:03 PM | Link to this

When i saw the look in Mike Woodson’s eyes after halftime, I was thinking deer in headlights.

I also think the Hawks will be ok if B K can sign another good wing player oe two.

By Rod

November 9, 2005 03:31 PM | Link to this

gb: I don’t know that we need anymore wing players. We need someone that will be a “punch you in the mouth” player in the paint.

By Biff

November 9, 2005 03:40 PM | Link to this

One would think that the Josh’s would be playing at least up to last year’s standards. Last year, I think most fans appreciated that the Hawks fought hard, got about as much as we could with the talent that we had (which was minimal). I don’t even see that so far this year. That comes from the top, and Woodson seems like he’s just going through the motions of coaching an NBA team. Only 4 games…hoping for the best but fearing the worst.

By Bill

November 9, 2005 03:46 PM | Link to this

Was at opening night, and I agree with the posters who say our defense was non-exisitent! We stood around and watched along with the other 4 Lakers as Koby took it inside like he was on the playground…yadda…yadda…yadda.

Going into the season, I was hoping for 25-30 wins…probably better revise that estimate to 10-15, if we’re lucky…all I know is that I’m sick & tired of going to games where there are more fans cheering for the visiting team then for us…If I saw 50 I must have seen a 1000 middle-aged men & women wearing their Laker jerseys last night! I know the Spirit group is loyal to their guys (BK & MW), but a full year of this is going to be tough to take! Last night’s game just validates why the Hawks won’t be on any national TNT/ESPN telecasts this season…ouch!!!

By doc

November 9, 2005 03:58 PM | Link to this

andy. love the articulation and the information you bring to the table. remember i feel this is like the place where the boys go in small towns to share coffee in the morning called the liars table. but some truth has to come forward and all end up learning from the other. i am not presupposing anyone will learn from me but conversely me from others as i do from you, ray, sam, asrto b, et al.

at times if we get so involved with the day to day the forest to get lost for the treees, the big picture is missing. we can criticize all we want but i for one am pleased with the big picture. first of all there are some good players in the mix, more than last year and a big plus just NOT the right mix.

next, we have new ownership that is still coming together as a whole and i assure you they will be better than aol because the motivation and intention is diffferent. new management has shown us that by spending money, though as fans many have derided it and rediculed it. i am glad to see it similar to the warrick dunn acquisition for the falcons who i thought was way overpaid.

for years this team was run as a team for sale now it is run by loving “local” fans. when i worked as as a mangement consultant an ‘aol in charge” meant the cash was taken OUT of the organization, assets were sold to make sure there was cash flow. money wasnt spent for capital improvements, i. e. free agents to stay. that is why west didnt show up and billy was nudged out after working hard with some success at a different address.

now as far as billy and coach, they are under the gun as new management is closely assessing their contribution as well. remember billy was hired for the aol guys and not by the new boys in town. to date billy was running the organization the way aol wanted i.e. a fire sale so i imagine he just might have done things that he didnt want to to keep his job, anyone out there have to do that? new management as they come together, and remember they got rid of the maverick that didnt want to spend, will either keep billy or be looking at who might come in and do the job to their liking. they dont have a lot invested in either billy or coach, dont think they wont pull the trigger when they feel it fair, or at least i hope they have the deciency to do it that way, unlike the masses here.

andy, as a businessman take the top down approach and see that it might take three years but at least the process has started, until aol was out of the picture and belkin gone it wasnt going to happen. if you think otherwise it is fantasy. given in that context where aol didnt really want a product that could COST money do you begin to ubderstand why the business was run so poorly. now i think you have enough of a business background to understand that i am not far off. i wasnt in the aol board room but i have been in boardrooms as a consultant and as a doctor and have been involved in a business from many angles (medicines economics are really warped but that goes in a different blog section) that i feel confident that you wont dispute it by much.

this is supposed to be fun being a fan. for the above reasons i am VERY GRATEFUL to be a hawks fan and see good things on the horizon but it is a distant horizon.

By Biff

November 9, 2005 04:18 PM | Link to this

Doc, your comments are obviously heartfelt, and I appreciate your positive outlook. I’m not picking on anyone personally (like over the Braves’ blog where they’re obsessed with Cox picking his nose in the dugout), but I just don’t share your enthusiasm for this management team.

I am not a fan of hardly ANY of the personnel decisions the Hawks have made. I don’t see Childress or Smith as a big time player; each has serious flaws, not just lack of experience. JJ is a great NO. 2, but we’re going to run him in the ground with this pg experiment (or, give up on it and acknowledge that it was a bad decision in the first place.) And I do think we overpaid for him but given the circumstances I can give BK and co. a pass on that.

Jason Collier’s death hurt (from a basketball standpoint…obviously more from a personal one to those who knew him). But mgmt made no apparent effort to shore up a team so obviously lacking in the paint.

Marvin may turn out to be a great player…I hope so, but we should’ve either drafted a pg at that pick, or packaged some of our (many) swingmen (if they’re all really such bright future stars), and gotten a Jarret Jack, or someone.

We have given away a lot of talent. Rasheed, Shareef, Terry, Sura, Mohammed (for Przybilla, who we then gave up on), Antoine, Payton, J. Barry, etc. Now I KNOW that these aren’t all great players, and that some were traded for others; but somehow most of them find meaningful playing time for teams much better than the Hawks. This management team seems to place no value on anyone except the “long guys” that BK likes so much.

And in return, we get draft choices, which given that we’re perennial losers, we would get anyway. And a free agent that we paid (at least) market value for.

I don’t write this out of “hatred” and again I appreciate your point of view…and I really would like to see a good team in Atlanta, but I can’t pretend I like what I see. Seems to me that BK and company are stubbornly sticking to “a plan” that is unproven and unlikely to succeed.

Oh, and if the plan is to ‘stay bad’ a couple more years and collect 1st rounders, YOU OR I could “manage” that well.

By doc

November 9, 2005 04:30 PM | Link to this

my point is no one wanted to spend money as long as aol was involved. so you collect draft picks that done cost satay at minimum budget and collect money from tv contracts and dont worry too much about the fans or attendance let the new guy make capital expenditures and rebuild fan base.

biff dont mind discussion. good points. as stated earlier i liked stotts. i too have moved away from brave talk and pray this site doesnt get dominated by those that are destructive, inane and personal in their comments.

By mykhalc

November 9, 2005 05:02 PM | Link to this

reposting my question in hopes of getting some feedback…

my question to you and others is, what’s your take on a salim and JJ backcourt?? and did/do you see anyone developing ANY kinda of chemistry on the court?? JJ/salim?? JJ/AL?? ZAZA/AL?? you get my drift!!???

some really good, insight posts on the blog today. thanks for posting guys!!

By Biff

November 9, 2005 05:13 PM | Link to this

mykhalc, I think you DEFINITELY move JJ to the 2; we’re wasting a great talent asking him to play pg. I just haven’t seen enough to say whether SS can handle point; he’s a rookie, and not even a natural point guard, so it seems like a pretty overwhelming request. If that is not feasible, I’d rather see Lue at pg and JJ at sg until mgt gets off their tails and finds us a point guard.

By doc

November 9, 2005 05:15 PM | Link to this

i am not sold on lue though he is a good guy to have as a backup and hopefully in the locker room. i hope there is upside potential on salim if he doesnt get squelched or return to the enigma he was in college.

the “chemistry” i dont like is salim and tyrone on the floor at the same time. i know it doesnt always take a long guy to play the game but with two guys that would be possibly called short in the new world of golf scares me in the nba. i think if i were an opposing coach i would drool seeing that line up.

By Biff

November 9, 2005 05:19 PM | Link to this

Doc, I agree that Lue is not ideal. IMHO, we simply don’t HAVE an NBA calibre point guard (but I won’t start complaining again). From what I’ve seen, which is bits and pieces of all 4 games, JJ looks absolutely futile at point, but maybe I’ve just tuned in at the wrong times. Again, I’d like to see what talent we have put to best use.

By mykhalc

November 9, 2005 05:26 PM | Link to this

thanks biff and doc. i definitely hear what you guys are sayin’. i was hoping that the glimmer of hope would be salim operating at the 2, with the idea of keeping the ball in JJ’s hands most of the time. i would not think that salim would be able to run the point anytime soon!! but it seems like many guys able to view the games that have posted here have come to the conclusion that JJ at point ain’t happenin’!! and maybe that’s as much of a result of supporting cast and where his talents ACTUALLY lie. and i guess the reason is not as important as it just being a fact!!!!

By clyde

November 9, 2005 06:53 PM | Link to this

The Hawks would be a playoff team if we would have kept JT and drafted Deng and Ridenour last year. And this year drafted Sean May instead of Marvin Williams.

By cp

November 10, 2005 01:10 AM | Link to this

Honestly other than JJ, Al , ZA ZA, Salim and Marvin i really dont see much effort on both ends of the court. Lue is playing hard i give him that but he doesnt set players up enough. Salim is little but he plays hard on d. I read where Sprewell wanted to play for us this year. I know we have plenty of wing players but they are not producing. At least with Sprewell i know he would play hard on the defensive end which is exactly what we need. I say we sign Sprewell and Gugliotta who also played welll with us last year. Send Donta Smith and Royal Ivey to the nbdl since they are not getting pt anyway .With the NBDL they would at least get some valuale minutes. A lot of people might disagree with me but what could it hurt. We are not going anywhere this year and at least these moves wouldnt cost us much money and we wouldnt be trading anybody. And most of all these 2 guys are tough and we need that desperately. What do you guys think?

By ray

November 11, 2005 05:05 PM | Link to this

Donta Smith hasn’t much to go on this year, so far. He’s a SF, sometimes maybe a SG. Perhaps the NBDL is a good idea, we could call him back up if needed. Ivey maybe should stay…but I haven’t seen enough of him to know if he can consistently bring the ball up the court and defend opposing guards, which is mostly what we’d need from him. Well, he’d also need to be a good ball distributor, not necessarily a 6 assist or more guy. Hard call on that one.