Hawks

By Scott

October 31, 2005 04:22 PM | Link to this

Marvin will prove to be another bust by the Hawks. Typical hawks, miss out on a sure thing in Bogut (double-double guy) for a 6-8 forward to won’t take this team over the hump. Billy Knight, please vanish like a ghost on Halloween!

By Jesse

October 31, 2005 04:31 PM | Link to this

I’ve thought about this myself. I would love it if Marvin ended up being the best player from the draft, an All-Star who regularly scores 20 ppg. It would be even sweeter if Zaza turned out to be just as good a player as Bogut. After missing out on the number 1 pick last year, that would basically be the equivalent of having your cake and eating it too, if you’re the Hawks.

Although some may think it unlikely that Zaza turns into a player of the same caliber as Bogut, I don’t think it’s impossible. Like you mentioned, Bogut and Zaza are nearly the same age, and I believe Zaza could have put up similar numbers to Bogut in a weak Mountain West Conference.

Even if that’s wishful thinking, I still feel fairly certain that if, before the draft, told the Hawks they could either choose Marvin AND Zaza, or just Bogut, they would have chosen Marvin and Zaza every time.

By MT

October 31, 2005 04:33 PM | Link to this

Scott, what’s your logic in your argument? What makes you think Williams will be a bust? Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion (and you may even be right) but be sure to back up what you say. Too often these blogs turn into morons posting the craziest assertion they can think of and seeing how everyone reacts. My opinion is that he’ll turn into a KG-type guy. He has the raw athleticism, but hasn’t had as much of a chance to develop. I think it may take him a good 2-3 years before we see what he’s capable of…if we have the patience, I think we’ll be glad with the draft pick.

By Jesse

October 31, 2005 04:34 PM | Link to this

P.S. In a recent poll of NBA general managers, Marvin Williams was the consensus pick to be the best player from last year’s draft 5 years from now, not Bogut. Bogut is not a sure thing, and most NBA people don’t think he will end up being nearly as good as Marvin.

By John Reid

October 31, 2005 04:46 PM | Link to this

Zaza is young, still developing, and will need time to grow, but from first sight he appears to have the tools of a solid big man. While he may not develop into a 20-10 at the 5, if he can put up 10-11 pts & 8 boards a game this year that will be a great start. Moreover, Bogut would not have worked out for the simple fact that this team is being built as more of an up tempo offense, and we need players such as Marvin to go along with JJ.

The real steal could be El Toro if he becomes an enforcer. He will be able to be a hard-nosed guy who can create problems for defenders inside. If he does that then we should really make strides.

By HB Ando

October 31, 2005 05:19 PM | Link to this

In the long run, we’ll end up with a good situation with both Marvin and Zaza. Subjective arguments as to who ended up with the better player won’t resolve anything. The fact the Bogut was underwhelming enough to warrant the acquistion of Magloire is more indicative of how undeveloped the games are of the young players entering the NBA these days, as well as the front court depth of the Bucks’ conference opponents.

But let’s debunk a couple of things we’ve been hearing on these blogs. One, a few guys have suggested we need a center so Zaza can move to the four. Guys, Zaza is in no way quick enough to play the four. He’s a center. Period. So Nene WOULD be a good complement, as Nene is better suited to the four, though he is big and strong enough to play center.

Bogut’s passing ability will likely always separate his game from Zaza’s, no matter how comparable they end up in points, boards and blocks. Only Brad Miller, Chris Webber and Kevin Garnett can consistently give you anywhere from 4-5 assists per game (if I’ve left another big man out at +4, please feel free to correct me). But remember, Zaza is younger now than Jermaine O’Neal was his last two years in Portland, where he languished on the bench. Big men do not develop until their mid-twenties, typically (Amare, Shaq and Garnett are freaks of nature, not the norm and Duncan played all four years in college).

Marvin Williams will not become Kevin Garnett. Garnett is a seven-footer, with Marvin coming in 3-4 inches shorter. There are no other Kevin Garnett’s. Marvin has some James Worthy in him. Someone else mentioned Jamal Mashburn, who I think is a fair comparison (though he should be a better rebounder than Mash, his versalitity on offense makes sense out of this comparison). He reminds me a lot of Len Bias (what a shame). But we don’t know if he’s going to fill out, and become a quick four, or stay lean and quick and become a big, strong three. No matter. He’s going to be the first Marvin Williams. And his talent and versatility will make watching his development as an Atlanta Hawk a pleasure.

Though it will have to be repeated throughout this season, remember that Josh Smith and Marvin Williams are supposed to be sophmores in college this year and Zaza is roughly the age of a college junior. They’d make a heck of a college team. But this is the NBA. It’s going to take time.

If you can separate the two, here’s how I see it. Patience with the young players on this team, and a sense of urgency by the front office, to be ready, if a player of substance becomes available. Be realistic about the time is will take for these guys to compete for a playoff slot. But management can’t keep letting guys like Magloire go to other teams. If there is a quality big man out there, available, this team has to be in the mix to obtain them (read: Nene).

By buddy@sundaysportstalk.com

October 31, 2005 05:27 PM | Link to this

It’s just one steal after another for Billy Knight. The biggest steal of the offseason, league wide, was the Hawks’ drafting of Salim Stoudamire with the first pick of the second round. Sekou predicted yesterday on Sunday Sports Talk that Salim will score in double figures this year.

I was saying at the time of the draft lottery that I felt relief that the Hawks got the second pick and thus were in no danger of drafting Bogut. He’s got European bloodlines and could be a great one, but I just felt Marvin was more of a shure thing, even though it’s going to take some time for him to reach his full potential (like so many young players who have come into the league before him).

Getting Zaza and from the Bucks and seeing him turn out to be a solid contributor able to play starter’s minutes is just icing on the cake. REMEMBER THIS NBA GMS: BILLY KNIGHT HAS NO CONSCIENCE… HE WILL PICK YOUR POCKET!!!

By Aaron B.

October 31, 2005 06:27 PM | Link to this

Heck yeah, We have stolen too much already from other teams so far. I think we decided not to get Jamaal, so we could be more fair to other teams needing help. As for Scott, are you retarded? We couldn’t get Bogut, but now I’m kind of glad we didn’t. Marvin is doing better, from the bench no doubt. Plus we got Zaza from them which is funny, since he is doing better than Bogut, and around the same age. Billy Knight is doing a great job at finding talent. Now we may have a young team, and we might not find too many wins this year. But I think we got a treasure trove of talent this year, and need time to gel. And I agree with Sekou about the double figures for SS.

By lewis

October 31, 2005 07:30 PM | Link to this

Check it out latest rumor…(who know if it is true)..hawks are trying to trade 2nd round pick for michael doleac from Miami, and waite for Ben Wallace next year with a max contract. I do think Ben Wallace take this team to a new leval…

By RA

October 31, 2005 07:48 PM | Link to this

Patience. Rome wasn’t built in a day and neither is a championship ball club, as the Yankees are finding out year after year. There is ALWAYS a rookie learning curve. Very few players come in to the league great (Magic Johnson being the only one that I can think of right off the top of my head…) Bogut will probably be a star, but he needs time to grow and learn. Williams will probably be a star, but he too has to get used to the pro game. Folks, whenever you draft, there is an element of risk. I’ve seen blue chip, can’t miss prospects turn into cow chips right before my very eyes. Every draft pick is a roll of the dice, and I’m afraid those dice won’t stop spinning until about five years from now. So before you take measure of what we have and what might have been, let the dice spin a little while longer.

By reese

October 31, 2005 07:48 PM | Link to this

Having not seen ZaZa play and limited listening to preseason games, he seems to have a nice offensive game. I don’t think that zaza would have gone to the bench if we traded for magloire. I think that he would have been playing beside him. Milwaukee coach stotts mentioned they would be a stronger playoff contender with joe smith or dan gadzuric playing next to magloire. Therefore, they probably would have been a better team keeping ZaZa and drafting Marvin williams as a small forward.

To tell the truth, the hawks would be in the same situation whether they drafted andrew bogut or marvin williams. The hawks are not thinking about being a playoff contender this year and neither player is good enough at this point of their careers to start for a NBA team. The big difference would be that Bogut would get the opportunity to play his natural position. Williams should be playing small forward as well as Josh Smith and Al Harrington. Just like in previous years Shareef and Antoine should have been playing small forward. I see that Van Gundy is thinking about starting Antoine Walker at small forward.

Also, say no to Doleac. He is not the defensive intimidator needed for this team. Bringing in JJ and Marvin should be a wakeup call to both Josh Childress and Josh Smith. They both will need to step up their game to keep getting playing time. Josh Childress seems to have gotten the message. Josh Smith has been injured too much to tell if he’s getting the message.

Finally, Salim has a huge hurdle to climb to get enough minutes to average double digit scoring. Right now, he is probably the 11 or 12 man.

By Trocon

October 31, 2005 07:52 PM | Link to this

Obviously, Scott is an idiot when it comes to basketball. Bogut is indeed going to be a good player in this league but Zaza is a lot more capable and has some experience under his belt. Already in the preseason he’s averaging 14-15 points in just under 25 minutes of play. Now I’m not a math wiz but given more minutes could very well equate to more production from this guy and production is something we’ve lacked for a long time from our 5 position.

Marvin is also a very talented swingman. He’s athletic and he’s a worker. It’ll take him 2-3 years like MT metioned before he matures into the caliber of player that leads a team.

Salim is also a great addition to this team because of his perimeter game. It’s been a while since we’ve had some shooters on this squad (Salim, Joe Johnson, Al).

All I’m trying to say here is don’t count the Hawks out of contention for a playoff spot this year. Maybe it’s just wishful thinking but from looking at this team play in the preseason and looking at what we have the ability to accomplish I say it’s very doable.

LET’S GO HAWKS!!!!

By Trocon

October 31, 2005 08:00 PM | Link to this

Ok Reese, I was with you until the Salim Stoudemire comment. Boy, some guys really have never seen Salim play before. Maybe you should start watching more college games….when you get cable…hahaha.

By Trocon

October 31, 2005 08:01 PM | Link to this

LET’S GO HAWKS, LET’S GO HAWKS, LET’S GO HAWKS…

By Tyrone

October 31, 2005 08:10 PM | Link to this

Nashville Hawks

Sound good to me!!!

By Wesley

October 31, 2005 08:34 PM | Link to this

I am tellin you….The Hawks will be a championship caliber in 2 years…..Watch and Learn , Baby

Ben Wallace will be in a Hawks uniform also.

By Lamont

October 31, 2005 08:54 PM | Link to this

The Bucks weren’t sure who they should take till the last minute. The acquistion of Magloire just tells us that they thought that Bogut isn’t as good as they predicted. I love Zaza’s game. He’s a great steal, no doubt. This guy makes 4million a season… a great deal. Just give those young guys time to mature. I think he can put 14 ppg along with 8 rpg. Again, what in the world could Doleac do for an athletic team like the Hawks ????? This dude can’t play in the paint ! And folks, the BULLS will throw every penny they have on Ben Wallace… I guess our odds of having him are very low-none.

By Scot

October 31, 2005 09:27 PM | Link to this

If Bogut is a bust, he would join an illustrious list of white centers, drafted in the 1st round, who have failed to meet expectations.

Sekou called me racist when I made this comment before the draft, but you it appears Bogut is joining the ranks of Milicic, Montross, Klein, Stipanovich, etc.

By TJ

October 31, 2005 09:46 PM | Link to this

I’m glad to see Zaza is doing well…even though its only preseason…but I will have to see a year or 2 of Bogut in the NBA before I make any comparisons on the 2…I never really pictured Zaza as a long term answer at center anyway, just a short term stopgap for when/if the right guy comes along (Wallace via FA or Oden or someone else via draft) If he gives us 8 points and 7 rebounds I will be more than satisfied. As for Doleac, nobody should consider this to be a real impact move…just a big body to fill space and Jason Collier’s roster spot…I know he isnt the answer at C but was Jason Collier? no…just a big body to come off the bench that can hit the open J and fill space…both of which Doleac is capable of… Lastly, I would not quite pencil Ben Wallace’s name into the Hawks 06-07 roster just yet…but I wouldnt count it out either…Chicago will offer all they can for Wallace but Atlanta is much closer to his home in Alabama, and if the young guys can show any promise at all this season it will be a much more attractive place for FAs to look….besides we finally got the marquee free agent jinx off our backs with the aquisition of Johnson…

By reese

October 31, 2005 10:17 PM | Link to this

Trocon, your right, I don’t watch much college basketball anymore and I wish more of the undergrads and high schoolers would stay in college longer. Then, they would be better prepared for the NBA and more fundamentally sound.

My reasoning for selecting Salim as the 11 or 12 man has to due with the others who play his position. Salim will play the point or shooting guard for the hawks. He has JJ, Tyrone and Royal ahead of him at the point guard. He has JC and JJ ahead of him at the 2 spot. Where do you expect him to get the minutes. They could move JC or JJ to the 3 spot, but now your eating up minutes being claimed by Marvin, JS, Donta Smith and Al.

I don’t even know what role Delk is going to play on this team. Being realistic, someone’s got to go if you expect Salim to do anything this year. Alternatively, JJ or JC would have to have a bad year in order for Salim to take up their minutes. He’s not ready to lead an NBA team at the point.

And as Dick Vitale would say “I’m a prime timer baby” I have all the cable channels that comcast provides.

By jeremy

October 31, 2005 10:22 PM | Link to this

Reese….there is NO way Salim is going to be the 12th man…anybody can guarantee that. he was the 1st of the bench in the 1st preseason game..if that is any indicator. he is playing quality time in preseason games and he is the sleeper of the draft (along with charlie villanueva, wayne simien, etc.).

he will be one of the first of the bench or rather…he will be in the first rotation group of the bench…DEFINITELY not 12 man at the end of the bench. sorry you were misinformed. :)

By jeremy

October 31, 2005 10:23 PM | Link to this

Reese—-also…Salim was # 1 in all of college hoops last year in 3 pt %…i think it was .504 is im not mistaken. the cat can shoot.

By reese

October 31, 2005 10:43 PM | Link to this

jeremy, it was preseason and we played most of our games against New orleans and charlotte. Plus, Tyronne lue was injured and then JJ was injured. Plus, Delk was not with the team for the majority of the games. Also, if I’m not mistaken Royal has been slowed with injuries.

The Preseason was the best time for Salim to get his playing time and I’m glad that he shot well. Also, realize that the college 3 pt line is a joke. It’s at the top of the key and any good shooter should be able to make that shot.

Don’t get me wrong, I hope that Salim is a very good NBA player, I just don’t think that it will be this year that he dominates unless player changes are made.

Maybe Sekou can give us some insight as to what the 1st and 2nd teams have been in practice or what he thinks the rotation would be for substitutions.

I would guess that first team would be jj, jc, js, al and zaza. Rotation would then be Tyronne in for JC and JJ moves to the 2 spot. The opportunity for Salim then could be to spell JJ at the 2 spot until the coach is ready to bring JC back into the game.

By ben

October 31, 2005 10:47 PM | Link to this

Draft pick from a year ago was rated the number four over 22 yr old in Europe. Check it out.

1. David Andersen - CSKA Moscow, C-PF, 7-0 (1980)

When drafted by Atlanta Hawks (#37) in 2002 he was an athletic but skinny big man, that had potential written all over him. A few years later and after a dominating second half of the season this past year that potential is beginning to pay off big time. A good rebounder and nice shoot blocker, he uses his quickness real well to get past his opponents. Has a nice midrange jumper and can put the ball on the floor to get by his man. Although he has developed his body in the past two years an extra few pounds wouldn’t hurt him. Andrew Bogut the best big man from Down Under? Hmmm.

Too bad we don’t have him this year.

By joe

November 1, 2005 07:00 AM | Link to this

None of it matters. The Hawks will finish last again, and the two draft picks that they threw away to Phoenix will keep the Suns going for the next 12 years.

The funniest part is building up a second round draft pick to be more than someone holding down a chair. There weren’t any quality players left after the first 6 picks, never mind in the 30s! He’ll see his minutes in blowout time.

By Kareem

November 1, 2005 08:47 AM | Link to this

At last we play Bb gentlemen…

Go Hawks!

By Matt

November 1, 2005 09:10 AM | Link to this

Those draft picks aren’t what you think they are. From Inside Hoops: “The Suns will receive Atlanta’s own first round pick no later than the 2008 NBA Draft. That pick which is “lottery” protected (1-14) in 2006, has protection through No. 3 in 2007 and has no protection in 2008. In addition the Suns will also receive a conditional first round pick via either the Los Angeles Lakers or Boston Celtics from an earlier trade between Boston and Atlanta. The Laker pick which is subject to protection through No. 10 in 2006, protection through No. 5 in draft years 2007-2010 and unconditional in 2011, is owed to Boston from yet another previous trade. In the year that the Laker pick is conveyed to Boston, Phoenix will receive the least favorable of Boston’s own pick or the Laker pick.”

Marvin might no hit his prime for a few years, but Bogut is going to retire within 3 years. Remember how he has only been playing for a few years? Guys don’t get that big without some health problems- in 3 years, he’ll be limping and ready to retire.

By mark

November 1, 2005 10:16 AM | Link to this

i am happy it’s bb season. improving that’s the key word. mw will improve over the course of the season. atl fans we will be very happy bk drafted mw. both josh’s improved last year . they struggled early but they got better. good coaching. and getting plying time . i see the same for mw. the young man got skills and i am glad he is a hawk. atl will be in the haunt for 8 spot. GO HAWKS.

By HB Ando

November 1, 2005 10:26 AM | Link to this

Matt and Joe, glad to have some idiots join our blog. For a while there we only had knowledgeable basketball fans here and most everything written was pertinent and carried some level of insight. Now we’ve got you two. No quality players past pick six (we got the league’s dunk champion at 17 the year before and a guy named Paul Pierce went with the 10th pick in his draft-gotta crystal ball there, Gump?) and Bogut will retire in three years because he’s big (if that were the case there would be how many seven-footers in the NBA?).

I guess the good news is that to be that moronic, you couldn’t actually be a basketball fan and will likely wander back over to the college football blogs so you can write clever things like, “Tech Sucks!”. Thanks for stopping by.

By cp

November 1, 2005 10:31 AM | Link to this

Joe i can see that you know nothing about Stoudamire.He is easily more talented than a lot of guys drafted in the first round.You can do a backtrack at a lot of drafts and see that guys picked later in the first round and some guys in the second put up better numbers than a lot of guys drafted high.Josh Howard,Marquis Daniels,Gilber Arenas, Rashard Lewis,Chris Duhon. I can keep going. These guys put up good numbers and were drafted late or not drafted at all so for you to think that Salim wont get quailty minutes is crazy.

By cp

November 1, 2005 10:34 AM | Link to this

Gilbert Arenas thas my bad. And i meant do a backtrack on all the old drafts but u get what i was saying.

By Lamont

November 1, 2005 11:04 AM | Link to this

Ginobli was the 57 th pick. It must tell you all something.

By bird dirt

November 1, 2005 12:19 PM | Link to this

would i trade bogut for za za? really, i’d just take whoever is cheaper. right now, there probably isn’t much that weighs one way or another as far as pros and cons go between the two. bogut may have more potential, but zaza will no doubt help out more immediately. money is the only major difference to me, though i don’t know what either of them are making right now.
to be honest, i wasn’t all that impressed when i watched bogut in the march madness tournament games. he was so hyped up even then, but he looked a little heavy-footed to me.

By infamouskrs

November 1, 2005 04:38 PM | Link to this

joe johnson was the STEAL of the offseason. we were able to bring in a possible superstar, who not only WANTED to be a Hawk, but has the potential to turn around a franchise who (in the last few years) wouldn’t have been able to fill a high school gymnasium!

Atlanta’s off-season was one our best in (10-15)years! Stoudamire+Williams should really benefit coming into a situation where they will be able to compete in practice for starts! i don’t believe any 1 starting lineup has been etched in stone!

This is a BRAND NEW BOOK (season) gentlemen….how is ends is up in the air….but I plan to keep reading!

Hawks Fan for life……

By Chinky Eyed Hawk

November 1, 2005 05:24 PM | Link to this

I agree w/ TJ, I don’t think that Zaza was acquired to be “the answer”, but was a great steal being that we needed his size and that his salary is very attractive. Now obtaining Magloire would have been one of those players that would have really given the hawks a great leap toward the playoffs, but Doleac would not fill that same role nor would any of the current free agent centers. I say let Zaza do his thing, develop El Toro, bring David Anderson over next year, and either draft Ogden(“the godsend”)or throw the bank at Wallace and that would give us a formidable frontline ourselves, in only just a year removed from not even really having a center.

Things to remeber: Wallace will be closer to home, has ties with Mike Woodson from his days with Larry in Detroit, Larry is no longer in Detroit, and if I am not mistaken we should have just as much cash as Chicago so let’s hope that Big Ben wants a warmer climate.

Imagine this line up: 5.Wallace/ Pachulia/ Edwards 4.Smith/ Bautista/ Anderson 3.Williams/ Harrington(resigns for moderate $$) D Smith 2. Childress/ Stoudamire/ D.Smith 1. Johnson/Lue/Ivey/ Rondo(draft pick)

Let’s see who will take that on!!! GO HAWKS!!!!!!

By ray

November 1, 2005 09:02 PM | Link to this

Scot, what kind of nutcase are you? Darko hasn’t been GIVEN the chance to play until now, so how can you call him a bust? Also, just ‘cause Bogut sits now doesn’t mean he won’t be good. Let’s not make it a white/black thing. And I’m black, so don’t go there, thinking I’m white and defending white players. You’re beyond ridiculous and Sekou is right, that is a racist comment. Maybe you should join Rush Limbaugh in a new talk show. As for a trade, I knew talk of trade for another big man would not die. This is how I see it: Harrington has very good game. However, what we’re hunting is an enforcer. Harrington might give you 20 a night and is a good low post/outside scorer. But he won’t get you 8-10 boards a night and his defense isn’t exactly awe-inspiring. So, yes, we need another 4. This doesn’t necessarily mean Harrington moves, but if he doesn’t, he slides to the 3 and somebody slides to the bench or another team. Time to make a move. In the meantime, Zaza is by himself in the paint.

By jimj

November 1, 2005 11:04 PM | Link to this

Hey, I’ve been beating this drum since they got ZaZa…I’ve followed him from Georgia-Turkey-Magic-Bobcats(sortof)-Bucks. In those five years this kid has shown me much more than most Euro big-men (aka 7’ shooting guards). He’s been playing pro ball since he was 15 and fans love him on every team he’s been on (except Char). ZaZa and Lue were two of the best moves the Hawks made this summer.

By Jim

November 4, 2005 08:33 AM | Link to this

Has anyone notices the Bucks and Bogut? 17 big boards against the Nets and 2 big blocks of Chris Webber late in game one! Zaza is a good young player but Bogut will be a star. His hands are so big he holds a Bball like we hold a tennis ball. He looks like a mix of Vlade D. and Bill Walton.