Hawks

By Astro Joe

October 26, 2005 04:41 PM | Link to this

Not sure that you can address both needs in the same player (unless Karl Malone wants to make a comeback with last year’s worse team). An expensive pick & roll option would be Austin C. from the Pacers (but rebounds offend him). Since rebounding is less of a skill and more about willingness and effort (see Batista), let’s just see what 7-footer shakes out when teams start cutting players.

In a perfect world, I would trade Delk to the Lakers for Slava Medvedenko. He’s a punisher with some skill. The cheaper and more realistic one-year option is Gugliotta (he played quite well last year for a guy with 75 year-old knees).

But the second unit needs to feature Marvin Williams, period. He can’t learn by playing 5 minutes a game and if his in/out game is supposed to be that good, let him be Lue’s partner on the pick & roll.

BASKETBALL STARTS IN 6 DAYS!!! BASKETBALL STARTS IN 6 DAYS!!!

Sorry, lost control.

By Astro Joe

October 26, 2005 04:56 PM | Link to this

Sekou, did you hear about the Magloire trade? Wow! The Bucks have too many bigs on their roster, maybe we can grab either Gadzuric or Joe Smith for Delk. They will need to add some offense to their bench and they certainly can’t expect to find enough minutes for Bogut, Magloire and more than either Gadzuric or Smith. Let’s take another big off their hands, like Zaza. And what’s the under/over on how long Byron Scott stays with a team that has all style and no substance… 50 games?

By jeremy

October 26, 2005 04:57 PM | Link to this

I like the idea of getting elson over samaki. samaki is just not that tall and we need a presence in there. i was sad to see that jamaal got snagged this morning. is there still a chance to get nene this preseason??? i would love to have a huge center like jahidi white who could do huge screens at the elbow or do a great pick and roll as sekou smith mentioned. or just someone to bang with other teams big centers. question—isnt francisco elson a bit on the skinny side? i forget. sekou—whats the scoop, man.

By anthony

October 26, 2005 05:04 PM | Link to this

The Hawks should look to a name from the past: Cal Bowdler. The guy is big enough to play center (6’10) and can shoot from the top of the key. He is mobile and can rebound. I thought Lenny Wilkins didn’t make use of him and he is a skilled athlete. Remember, Collier was a first-round pick who didn’t stick initially, either. Bowdler was playing in England last year, by the way.

By HB Ando

October 26, 2005 05:38 PM | Link to this

Seems we could have made at least as appealing of an offer to New Orleans for Magloire. Once again, it seems our front office never gets in there and snags an available quality player.

Look, Harrington is a tremendous player, and he doesn’t deserve to be the target of constant trade speculation. However, the truth is that this team cannot find sufficient minutes for Al, Marvin, the two Josh’s and JJ beyond this year. So the obvious implication continues to be that one of those guys will have to be traded for a big man. JJ, Marvin and Smith aren’t going anywhere. That leaves Childress and Harrington. Both have more skill and/or upside than Mason.

So where was Billy Knight on this one? Were we in the mix, or asleep at the wheel? Magloire is a young, all-star center, in a league woefully short on quality at that position. Our need there is desperate, and has been for quite a while, so why aren’t we aggressively pursuing just this kind of acquisition. To be honest, getting another cast off from the Bucks is not the answer. The Bucks are a mid-level franchise. We cannot honestly hope to improve the rotation significantly by getting someone who’s not good enough to earn meaningul minutes in Milwaukee.

This really gives me pause about the leadership in the front office (similar to not using our final second rounder on a big). For every step we perceive this franchise as taking forward, there continue to be two steps back. A team this bad can’t continue to approach this so conservatively. Al and Magloire are both free agents at the end of the season. I just don’t see why we didn’t step up and make something happen here.

I still don’t get not resigning Gugliotta. Bowdler is not the answer. Elson has some skill, but Nene is not going to resign, so he’ll go restricted next season, get a strong offer from another team, which Denver will deem too expensive, and Elson will step in to fill the void. No one of significant value is going to be waived and then come fill this teams’ void in the paint. We are going to have to give something to get something. The fact that a young center as talented as Magloire was on the block and we didn’t go get him says alot about the leadership of this franchise. Period.

By Sekou K. Smith

October 26, 2005 05:46 PM | Link to this

The Magloire trade was a surprise to me as well. And I wonder, since Byron Scott dismissed trade rumors about him last week, what the heck really happened there. The Hornets I saw last week don’t need another swingman (like the Hawks they have plenty), so it leads me to believe that the Hornets were simply trying to rid themselves of Magloire. Fact is, dude was an All-Star two years ago (playing alongside Baron Davis) so we know the talent is there. Since I’m not privy to the inner workings of the Hornets franchise, I’d hate to speculate about what else might have been in play there. But you guys are free to do so. :-)

By Mash

October 26, 2005 05:53 PM | Link to this

HB, I here you on the front office, I’m skeptical of Knight’s negotiating skill myself. (Like we had to throw in another first rounder to PHX…I digress).

One word on the big that we need: Najera. Make this trade happen BIlly, and all your past sins will be forgiven.

By HB Ando

October 26, 2005 06:16 PM | Link to this

There’s a theme here: it seems it’s always the teams with the worst records who trade away talent for little in return. Toronto dumped Vinsanity for nothing last year. Drafted a center that can’t play. Then draft Villanueva way before anyone else would have, and the guy plays the same position as their franchise cornerstone. Now you have the moribund Hornets, giving away an all-star center, with no one on their roster who can truly be called a center to replace him, and they get an athletic swing man who cannot shoot beyond the arc (when they already have JR. Smith, who can shoot beyond it).

I’ve been reluctantly supportive of the Hawks overpaying for Johnson, out of sheer desperation. But time will tell whether we overpaid or not. We miss this opportunity, I can only hope that if they do end up trading one of our quality young guys, that we actually get fair value. But I’ve seen nothing in their actions that suggests that this front office is clever enough to pull off such a move.

Dang. I just cannot get over the fact that a starting center, a young, former all-star, was moved, and we weren’t the ones getting him. All these other names we bandy about are backups and borderline waiver pickups. I’d sure like to know if the Hornets approached us (thought there is no doubt in my mind that we should have been banging down their door with rumors of Magloire’s availability all over the rags and the web). Seems like they would have much preferred Al Harrington to Des Mason. Since Mr. Knight remains mute, we’re left to wildly speculate and come to the worst conclusions about this teams’ lack of direction.

And let’s be clear about one thing: if the fans have no faith, they don’t buy tickets. At some point this organization is going to have to address ongoing fan apathy. And you don’t do that by dismissing, outright, people’s desire for insight.

By HB Ando

October 26, 2005 06:24 PM | Link to this

And one last thing: am I the only one who continues to read daily reports out of Detroit at the rapid blossom of Darko’s game, now that Larry Brown has pulled up stakes? With Al as an unrestricted free-agent, if I wasn’t absolutely sure we intend to resign him, or more importantly, that he would be committed to staying here if given the opportunity, I’d damn sure look back at the rumors that we turned down Darko for Al around the draft (and I know they were unconfirmed rumors, but in-house, they know if he could have been had). And if Woodson’s assessment truly has been of the opinion that Darko was a bust, that doesn’t do much for my confidence in his eye for talent.

By craig

October 26, 2005 06:33 PM | Link to this

Hold on, folks, let’s not throw Billy under the bus on this one. The trade was not just for Mason but the Hornets also received an unconditional 1st round pick in next year’s draft!!

I would agree that we should have traded for Jamaal if the Hornets would have took Harrington and maybe Donta Smith in return, but there is no way we should have sent them our 1st round pick in 2006 in order to beat the Bucks offer.

Look, Byron Scott said himself that the 1st round pick that they got was very important to them. In other words they would not have traded Jamaal without receiving a player AND a 1st round pick in return, which would have been too much for the Hawks to give up considering we’ve already sent two of our future 1st rounders to the Suns for JJ.

By the way, there’s is no guarantee that Jamaal will re-sign with the Bucks after this season and we will have tons of cap space next year so Jamaal just might be a Hawk in 2006 anyway. I would much rather pursue him than Nene because he is much more skilled offensively.

By Jesse

October 26, 2005 07:15 PM | Link to this

HB Ando, the rumor was that Billy Knight tried to get Darko from the Pistons over the summer and was turned down by the Pistons. BK knew Darko had the talent and tried to get him, so be glad we have a GM with an eye for talent.

As for Magloire, Harrington for Magloire rumors have been tossed around for months, so I’m sure BK was in the mix and either didn’t want to give up too much, or else the Hornets just didn’t like what we could offer The rumor is they wanted Desmond Mason because he’s an OK State product and dunk champion — i.e., they wanted someone who could sell some tickets.

Anyways, Magloire is overrated…we could use him, but it’s not the end of the world to miss out on him.

By Hal

October 26, 2005 07:32 PM | Link to this

Everyone that truly loves the Hawks MUST go to the ESPN.com season preview. Here’s the link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-AtlantaPreview0506

By Astro Joe

October 26, 2005 08:24 PM | Link to this

HB Ando, the Bucks sent a proven veteran player who has demonstrated the ability to score 15-16 points a night in the League. Childress has not shown that. Al is done with his contract after this season, Mason’s deal is good through the end of the ‘07 season. And, the Bucks gave up an UNconditional 1st round pick. So if TJ gets hurt again and this team ends up in the lottery, the Hornets will get their pick, regardless of the slot. I don’t think we could have or would have given that much for Magloire. And I agree with Sekou, there must be an issue with Jamaal that we are not seeing/hearing.

By craig

October 26, 2005 09:44 PM | Link to this

well said astro joe.

By Beck

October 26, 2005 09:56 PM | Link to this

Isn’t Oden coming out next year? Our picks are lottery protected (and lets be honest….we will be in the lottery) so we might have a chance to grab him. In which case we are set at center and our guys have had another season to get some burn.

I must admit though….I was disappointed with missing out on JM.

By reese

October 27, 2005 02:11 AM | Link to this

Will there really be a lot of players available since each team can now have 15 players on their roster. Also, do players on the injured reserve count against the 15. The problem with Samaki and jahadi are they are undersized at 6’9” tall. Adding these players will not improve the height of the team. Also, neither is the defensive intimidator that this team needs to reject the shots of guards and small forwards blowing by our young players. I would like to see a tall Theo Ratliff type player who blocks or alters shots. I have not seen Elson play much. He is over 7’0” tall, but I would not trade anyone but delk for him. I would also like to see a tall and thicker player who rebounds. David Harrison of Indiana is the type of player I’m talking about. He is 7’0” 280. Coach Woodson has repeatedly indicated that he wanted more bigs. The best Billy could do was John Edwards and Batista. If he had drafted a center or power forward with height, rebounding and blocking shots ability, I probably would not be so hard on him. This team needs for Al harington to be the small forward. Josh Smith and Marvin Williams are not the answer for power forward.

By Astro Joe

October 27, 2005 08:28 AM | Link to this

One more thing about Jamaal, in his All-Star year he averaged 14 points and 10 boards. If Zaza gives this team 11 and 9 (which is very probable), trading a player + an unconditional pick for 3 more points and 1 more rebound a game is just not good business. We absolutely need a back-up big, but unless we are getting a significant upgrade over Zaza, let’s get behind ZaZaP.

By Dr.De

October 27, 2005 09:59 AM | Link to this

About this Darko issue. Joe Dumars is a great GM for alot of reasons, and one reason is that he is not STUPID!

In 2003 the NBA moved the draft date so whoever wanted to draft Darko could, because at the time he was only 17 yrs old. The following week, he turned 18.

Darko rated out in the 2003 workout skills as the 3rd best of all players including pg,sf,pf,c as far as foot speed and lateral movement. 3rd!

This guy is 7’1 265 lbs and is in his 3rd yr in the NBA and just turned 20yrs old. During the preseason this year, he has been knocking down 3’s, blocking almost 3 shots pre game, and rebounding, etc. He still gets in to foul trouble so what, but he is playing with greater confidence.

Larry”I can’t wait to get out of town” Brown, is a great teacher and helped get my Pistons a Championship. But he is a cancer, and eat’s and spits out young players. He kills them mentally.

Last week they played the Heat, and he banged with Shaq, and threw down a ” This is for your Mama” dunk on ZO!

Thank you Larry Brown, you have just created a monster!

By HB Ando

October 27, 2005 11:08 AM | Link to this

That unconditional first rounder will be mid-pack, in the weakest draft in modern history. Which is why the Bucks had no problem throwing it in (similarly to our throwing in our Laker’s first into the Johnson deal). Mason had been replaced by Simmons. Look at Mason’s stats and you’ll find a guy who does nothing but score. He does rebound, pass, steal or shoot 3’s. He’s a slasher/dunker. In fact the only viable value I’ll agree he brings is the Ok. State connection (great point).

Joe, I’m down with Zaza, but two talented heads are better than one. I mean certainly the Bucks think so or they wouldn’t have added Magloire when they just drafted Bogut, right? Seven-footers don’t have the stamina to run for 35-40 minutes a game. Ming, in Houston, continues to struggle with endurance. We’re supposed to be a running team this year. Two quality centers, each capable of giving you 24 minutes of full-out effort, would be the optimal rotation for a running team.

Finally, Magloire is just entering his prime. He’s still young. There is reason to believe that 14 and 10 is just the beginning for the still improving Magloire. I’m not down on Zaza (in fact I’ve been a supporter of the move all along, given his numbers in limited minutes last year, and his youth), but he has no help behind him and Al is a 3 playing the 4.

Beck, Oden will be a college freshman next year, and will be ineligible to enter the draft due to the next age limit. He will be out in 2007. Fortunately, (or unfortunately for this years’ fans) we still look to be a healthy player in the draft lottery for 2007. However, our pick is only protected if it’s one of the first 3 in that years’ draft. If we end up with the 4th pick or lower, it goes to Phoenix (and with our luck it will be the 4th overall pick) as compensation for Joe Johnson.

By MBATL

October 27, 2005 01:42 PM | Link to this

One of the pitfalls of the logjam at small forward is that everyone knows we will not re-sign Harrington, unless we trade one of the Joshes. There’s no way we’ll pony up big bucks for Al next year when we have Josh,Josh and Marvin vying for playing time. So, I think the Hawks will trade Al, but will once again get less than market value for him because the ‘other side’ will know that we’ve GOT to move him.

Seems to me that either of two guys we gave away - Nazr Mohammed or Joel Przbilla - would be a decent fit as a backup ‘big’, but we gave up on them. (Mohammed is good enough to be No. 2 center for the Spurs, but not the Hawks?).

If we could’ve made a play for Magloire, we sure should have, but of course I don’t know the circumstances either. Magloire’s numbers will get better, while I fear that what we’ve seen out of ZaZa this preseason is about as good as it will ever get.

Hope I’m wrong. I’m not a “hater”, but I guess I am a skeptic. I’ll buy a few tickets this year as always, because I love BB and am a Hawks fan, and I’ll hope BK knows what he’s doing.

By Astro Joe

October 27, 2005 01:49 PM | Link to this

We could always wait and try a sign and trade with Al. At that point, a team who really wants him may be willing to trade something back, especially since their will likely be several teams interested in Al. We traded Nazr to the Knicks, was it part of the Glenn Robinson deal or the Terrell Brandon one? And yes, I would love to have Joel P. back, maybe next year when he is a FA. He is a true rebounding machine.

By MBATL

October 27, 2005 01:53 PM | Link to this

Astro, this is from the Hawk’s site:

Atlanta acquires Michael Doleac (from the Knicks) and Joel Przybilla (from the Bucks), along with a 2005 second-round draft choice (from the Knicks), in exchange for Nazr Mohammed (to the Knicks).

So, I guess we got Przybilla FOR Mohammed — I overlooked that. We used the 2nd round choice to draft some Eurpean guard who never played.

By Ty Prather aka Cookhall Bison

October 27, 2005 02:03 PM | Link to this

Beyond the obvious big names I think the Hawks should take a look at:

Chris Borchardt, 7-0, Stanford - big, smart but injury prone.

Jackie Butler, 6-10, may provide the agressiveness we need on the boards.

Robert Whaley, 6-10, unorthodox scorer from the post.

By Ben

October 27, 2005 04:40 PM | Link to this

NBA Draftnet.com listed the top foreign players over 22? David Anderson (second round pick from 1-2 years ago) was listed number four and raised the question whether Boget is the best BB player from down under. Sounds good. Wish we could bring him over this year. He’s 7 ft.