Hawks

By buddy@sundaysportstalk.com

October 4, 2005 04:32 PM | Link to this

On paper, imagine a hawks lineup up this year of:

Starters: Joe Johnson, Josh Childress, Marvin Williams, Josh Smith, a HEALTHY Eddie Curry

Bench: Tyronn Lue, Batista, Edwards, Pachulia, Stoudamire (probably minus one in the trade)

That’s a playoff team. Thus, on paper, it seems like the Hawks may end up regretting not going after Curry harder, IF it turns out that his health is going to allow him to have a long and productive career.

Big IF. But that’s just where the Ifs begin with Curry. You’ve also got questions about his character and commitment. I think the way he portrayed Bulls management throughout their dispute was unfair. John Paxon revealed that the Bulls had offered to pay Curry $400,000 per year for the next 50 years if his DNA test results derailed his career. So clearly, the Bulls were interested in Curry’s health and not in trying to trim sallary.

Time will tell if Curry was one that got away from the Hawks or if management carefully considered the positives and the many, many negatives and wisely chose to pass.

By doc

October 4, 2005 05:18 PM | Link to this

one of two teams with pockets deep enough with the liabilities to take him on got him. not surprisingly it is new york with the other being la which may have their own albatross in kwayme.

i hope both are successful, but to me id rather have management not doing things that could implode the franchise that has a very thin fan base anyway, a la the debacle a few years back to bring in the sad case from portland. it doesnt say anything negative about management, personally im glad they dont seem desparate and hopefully have a plan.

By lewis

October 4, 2005 05:19 PM | Link to this

i do not think you do the deal, this is to much like driveing your Ferrari down the road with no insurance. we are talking about 60 million and until we know differ, no insurance for at least the first year. i would not invest 60 million in someone that i could not be 100 percent sure he is healthy.

By Jake

October 4, 2005 05:19 PM | Link to this

Sometimes the best trades are the ones not made. Billy Knight spent money wisely as far as Eddy Curry goes, especially given his behavior when he visited the Hawks.

Does anyone know how much Woodson would change the defensive approach in response to a good defensive big man? I would assume that he would have the guards play tighter and take more risks. Still, our guards are so big that the conventional wisdom might be out.

By Scott

October 4, 2005 05:26 PM | Link to this

Billy Knight, take your “long and lean” philosophy and go away….and take Michael (I thought they were going to ask for Josh Smith!) Gearon Jr. with you. No low post scoring, no defensive presence, no rebounding, no intimidation. But hey, we’re long! Pathetic.

By Lamont

October 4, 2005 06:50 PM | Link to this

The Knicks were the only choice Curry had. Apparently no other team in the league tried to get the Bulls’ center. If you all see what the knicks have become you should know that the Hawks should stay far away from the model of management the Knicks have. I. Thomas offered 60 million, gave up on Sweetney and 3 draft picks ( one first round pick ) for a center who avgs under 6 rpg and at his best season playing for the Bulls avged 16.1 ppg. I’m gald to see Curry’s gone. It prevents the Hawks from getting in trouble and keeps us on the right track. We’re rebuilding. It takes time and patience. We have taken so much risk on JJ. Anyway, that risk is worthwhile, I cant say the same about a guy who might not be able to play in a month and was just offered 60 million bucks… and hey, the trade isnt as bad as it looks for the Bulls!

By Andrew

October 4, 2005 07:05 PM | Link to this

Scott, I don’t know if you have watched basketball before, but Eddy Curry actually had the lowest rate of rebounds per minute for any starting center in the NBA last year. The guy loafs, plays no defense, and gets no rebounds. Not exactly the presence that we are looking for. The Knicks can have Eddy Curry; he has no heart (figuratively AND literally)

By Samuel

October 4, 2005 07:26 PM | Link to this

Yes,

The risk was worth taking. To me the Hawks can’t possibly go any lower than they already are.

I think signing Joe Johnson and paying him 70 million dollars was a much greater risk than signing Curry. That’s what I call desperate. I don’t care what all the Media talk was about Johnson. I believe we could have gotten “more” for that kind of money. He’s not even a top 30 player in the league.

Buddy and all you who “question Curry’s character and committment”. That’s a bunch of Bull. Why is it that practically every Championship team has had different type personalities but a team like the Hawks have the “Audacity”(Andy check my spelling)to to be choosy when it comes to “Seven-Footers that Can Score”,no less. Give me a freak’n break.

I guess that’s why Rasheed played all of what, “One Game”, here but went on to become one of the most valuable players on a Championship squad.

I see why Curry left Atlanta on the first flight out.

I am a fan but i’ll be Dam_ if i’m going to give credit to anyone where is doesn’t exist. BK, yall need to “Get Real”. If you and “Woody” can’t hadle a little “attitude” yall need to “get to stepp’in”. I don’t like Losing.

By ray

October 4, 2005 08:08 PM | Link to this

The risk might have been worth it for NY, who is always making questionable moves. But I don’t think it was worth it for Atlanta. Curry might fit in NY, especially with Brown there to help him and guide him. Woodson is just tasting the head coach thing, he’s really just a rookie at this job and he might not be able to mold and temper Curry’s attitude. Brown’s been at it longer. His attitude just doesn’t cut it, sorry to tell you that, but if you’re attitude is that bad, you better be at Kobe/Jordan level to make up for it. In the end, that still won’t help you win. And if Curry is successful in NY, it still doesn’t prove Atlanta should have taken him, because he still may not have fit here. Now let me really light one under a few collars. JJ has proven that he can make his teammates better. You can debate that all you want, but Phoenix misses him, even some of the experts have said so. That’s why he’s a better risk, especially when you have options at every position JJ can play for the Hawks. Curry has trouble making himself better, much less his teammates. The ball is squarely in his court now, and he better get on it, because NY is very unforgiving, and I. Thomas has a short fuse. Here’s his chance to prove Sam right and everyone else, including 30 other teams, wrong. Bottom Line: 1.Curry succeeds, Hawks fail, management looks like fools. 2.Curry fails, Hawks fail, little or no correlation between the two made, management still looks like fools. 3. Curry succeeds, Hawks succeed, everything is forgotten on this part of the story line (except for the fantasy basketball fans)and we find something els to complain about. 4. Curry fails, Hawks succeed, management looks good, at least for now, and Sam leaves the Curry issue alone….maybe. LOL

By doc

October 4, 2005 10:08 PM | Link to this

i hope i am wrong but i think brown has just bought into a derrick coleman committment and character wannabe. a lot of potential that wont ever make it the way some envision. there was a short line for him and apparantly a huge price tag along with it or in spite of it; draft picks, big dollars, player that makes boris diaw look like chump change. spell it rolaids type of relief he is elsewhere. ill take a character guy to build on as woodson has a whole team to coach without having to baby sit a new face.

ray i hope for no. 3 and brown will work his magic and curry will ?PRACTICE?

By Harry Hawk

October 5, 2005 01:50 AM | Link to this

I personally would be more worried about Curry’s health than his lack of rebounding. To tell you the truth, I think the Hawks would’ve taken a chance on Curry if he had shown some maturity during his visit. However, I’m glad they didn’t. Besides, it should tell you something that the Bulls locked up Tyson Chandler to a big contract over Curry. I’d bet that has a little to do with Chandler’s defensive presence.

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I can’t wait to see Curry and Jerome James on the court at the same time for the Knicks. It brings tears of joy to my eyes. God, I have waited so many years to witness something as wonderful as that!

By tb

October 5, 2005 02:41 AM | Link to this

It does appear as if NY is spinning out of control.

It probably is a very good thing that we did not get Curry. I think one of the positives we have with our young players is attitude. They are evolving in a positive environment (seemingly) with reduced pressure as compared to a club with a “bad” attitude.

The Hawks look ready to begin year three of the rebuilding plan.

By the end of this year we should have a very good idea as to the true long-term value of our players.

By Jesse

October 5, 2005 08:58 AM | Link to this

I was already on the fence about Curry BEFORE the health issues arose. Both Josh Smith and Josh Childress outrebounded Curry this season, plus Curry doesn’t play defense and for that reason often doesn’t play at all at the end of close games. The Bulls actually prefer to leave him on the bench when the game is on the line —what does that tell you about him?

And then he has the weight problems, and the lack of motiviation to stay in shape he has displayed through most of his career. Add all that up and he is a huge risk already, not to mention the fact that he could have a heart attack at any minute. And that’s without mentioning the fact that Curry clearly did NOT want to come to Atlanta and couldn’t even manage to stay for the second day he was scheduled to spend with the Hawks, even though millions of dollars were on the line.

I say the Knicks are welcome to Curry and I believe Billy Knight will be able to find the bigman we need within the next two years.

By Astro Joe

October 5, 2005 09:15 AM | Link to this

Zeke Thomas is desperate because he was a small window as the Knicks GM, they are losing tons of money up there and he knows that Larry Brown may quit the next time his nose starts running (or another team calls). Curry may be the next Ike Austin. He fears rebounds like my 6 year-old niece fears spiders. Even if his heart stays healthy, the Knicks may be the proud owners of Ike Austin and Oliver Miller (what’s the dude’s name they signed from Seattle). BK was right to stay away and survey the big man landscape next year.

By Andy (HB Ando)

October 5, 2005 11:09 AM | Link to this

You guys have pretty much covered. Sam, you seem to stand alone in your commitment to Eddy Curry. Knicks tickets are on sale for around $200 a pop (nosebleed). Feel free to finance their fiscally ridiculous approach to roster building (and losing). Look, all the Sixers and Bulls are hoping (and paying $10 million per year) for from their young centers, Chandler and Dalembert, is a double-double and 2 blocks per game. Says right here that Zaza can hit those marks this season, for $6 million LESS per season. Give him a shot. If it doesn’t work out, you’ve got some talent, in Harrington, that you can consider moving for a true 4 or 5 man. We keep saying the same thing over and over again: The Hawks are not done rebuilding and it will likely take beyond this year to get where this team needs to be. Take a chill pill (or whatever pill you like, Sam) and let’s watch this years’ team, and see what we see. Spell check good, “Audacious Sam”.

By Reese

October 5, 2005 02:16 PM | Link to this

Don’t worry Sam, your not alone. What people seem to be focusing on is Eddie Curry alone. What they have not looked at are the additional moves made by Isiah Thomas. He now has Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford, Quentin Richardson and Allan Houston. This gives him competent starters and trade material if the chemistry is not there. Additionally, he has Steve James and Antonio Daniels as compliments or insurance if Eddie Curry does not pan out. Also, they can provide the rebounding and defensive presence that Curry may be lacking. They have the potential to focus on his positive attributes instead of focusing on his negative attributes.
The Hawks should have taken a chance on Curry, but only if they were willing to make moves that would have brought in other power forwards/centers of his caliber at the same time. I’m hoping like the rest that Billy knight’s strategy of bringing in other teams 2nd and 3rd tier players (al harington, zaza, edwards, batista) will propel the hawks to the playoffs. But, I will continue to offer alternative suggestions and hope he reads one day. He can even take the credit :)

By Andy (HB Ando)

October 5, 2005 04:19 PM | Link to this

OK, so there are two of you.

It’s Antonio “Davis” and “Jerome” James. And if you add the $13 million Davis is to make, the $6M James will make, and the $13M Curry will make, you have $32 million next year invested in a 3-headed center, that presents limitations on some phase of the game no matter which one is in. That’s the wasteful approach that only the Knicks can employ, as their payroll doubles the salary cap. James’ history of half-a* effort rivals Curry. And he came to NY to be the starter and now finds himself a well-paid backup. He’ll pout and underperform, just like he has his whole career (except in the playoffs last season when he actually tried for a few weeks to “earn” the contract he signed).

When you pay someone 55-60 million bucks, you shouldn’t have to put in his backup with you need effort and rebounds. Which part of “lowest rebounds per 48 minutes played of any starting center in the NBA” do you guys not understand? I’d rather have average athletes, who play with fire and heart, than a guy who looks like a star but doesn’t care about the game.

There was no big gamble by the Hawks not to go after Curry. They did the same thing that every single other team in the NBA, besides the Knicks, chose to do. Pass on Eddy Curry. So even if you think you know more than Billy Knight (and you just might), you’d also be going against the insight and wisdom of every other GM in the league who doesn’t have a quality center (that’d be about 20 teams).

With that in mind, it’s hard to fathom how you think there’s a reasonable argument to be made regarding going after Curry here in Atlanta. I’ll say it one last time: NO other team in the NBA, save the Knicks, was willing to sign Eddy Curry to a long-term, guaranteed, uninsured contract. No one, nada, zip, zero, no takers.

By reese

October 5, 2005 06:29 PM | Link to this

Andy, I do understand the point that you are emphasizing about Curry’s lack of rebounds. However, the center position does not have to be the key rebounding position. Thats why I would not do the deal unless I placed another tall talented power forward with Curry. Placing Al harington next to him would not do either player justice. If you look at other centers in the league you would be surprised to see that they are not rebounding much better. Zydrunas Ilgauskas 8.6 Eric Dampier 7.5 Nazi Mohammed 6.7 Yao Ming 7.7 Shaq 7.8 Kelvin Cato 6.7 Brendan haywood 7.6 However, they contribute other facets that helped their teams make the playoffs or attain a better record than the hawks. Additionally, they have a complimentary player who rebounds. Ben Wallace grabs a lot of rebounds, but he doesn’t score. However, Rasheed Wallace scores and he is a good compliment. As far as making decisions that every other GM would not make, I find that a compliment. I don’t make decisions based what other GM’s do. I would make decisions based upon input from my scouts, input from my coaches, input from the medical staff and from watching tape of the players of interest. Finally, as far is money is concerned, I don’t know what directive Billy has been given about staying under the Salary Cap. But to commit so much to joe johnson when you need so much has set the precedent for me to ask them to give someone else a large sum of money. Otherwise, I am setting Joe Johnson up for failure. He cannot do it alone.

By Andy (HB Ando)

October 5, 2005 08:57 PM | Link to this

Shaq actually averaged 10.4 last year, the lowest of his career. It was also his career low in minutes per game. Our own Zaza was 25th in the league in rebounds per 48 minutes. As I said, Curry was last in the league for starting centers, in rebounds per 48. He was outrebounded by our shooting guard and our small forward.

I understand that you can get rebounds from other positions, but the fact is that if your 6’11, athletic center can’t or won’t grab more than six boards a game, it sets a bad tone for effort. And rebounding is all effort and heart. This team needs guys that will battle for every loose ball. I think they’ve got that. We don’t need any loafers. We’re not good enough to loaf.

As Sekou has pointed out in today’s blog, this team is going to run, run and run some more. Curry would have never fit in with that. There is nothing in his history that suggests he plays with effort or heart. Your point about Rasheed and Big Ben is good. But is supports my position. That team wins without scoring from its center. It wins because its center rebounds and blocks shots and hustles. Rasheed is their best low-post scorer, and Wallace’s effort on the boards frees Rasheed to float to the perimeter and take advantage of his shooting ability. If Zaza, Edwards and Batista can, colletively, rebound and defend, with heart, this team has plenty of athletic scorers, especially when we’ve added Johnson, Stoudamire and Williams. Curry is in New York. It’s over. Time to move on with reality.

By Samuel

October 5, 2005 09:27 PM | Link to this

Reese,

“I GOT THIS”. I’m not worried the least my friend. It’s really funny debating with these guys. After all you’re talking about fans who consider 26 wins a good season.

I think by New York landing Curry it put’s them in the Top 4 teams in the East and TOP 5 in the NBA. I love Jerome James’ game. I believe either he or Curry will move to PF. That will be a hellava front line. I’m sitt’n here looking at their roster. “The Knicks are LOADED”. Look at the big men they got: C. Fry, J.James, Curry, M. Rose, Mo. Taylor and Cuz(Our boy from Mississippi Jackie “the iceman” Butler), Dam_.

Add Stephon, Houston, Crawford, Richardson and a big time “sleeper rookie” Nate Robinson. SHEEEIIIITTT!!

Not to mention, the one and only “NOMAD HIMSELF” Larry B. Look out Yall.

By ray

October 5, 2005 09:34 PM | Link to this

Philosophical differences doesn’t come close to describing the two general schools of thought in this blog. We could go back and forth on this for weeks. I agree with Andy and some others, but my opinion means nothing and doesn’t shake the truth, which is this: We don’t have Curry and we likely won’t get him, either. Big fat deal. BK gets paid to do what he does, if he doesn’t do well, he’s a goner sooner or later. In the meantime, I’d like to see what the HAWKS can do, not what everyone we might’ve or could’ve gotten can do. The Curry issue is quite tiresom by now. I genuinely hope he can be healthy for the rest of his life, let alone his career. Maybe I’ll see him on sportscenter or something. Other than that, I’m a Hawks fan, and I’ll be watching Hawks b-ball. I vote for a blog on a Hawks player.

By ray

October 5, 2005 09:48 PM | Link to this

So are you a transplanted Knicks fan, Sam? I mean, you just can’t be a Hawks fan. I hope they plan on a half-court set, ‘cause full court just ain’t gonna happen with their selection of 4s and 5s. Brown might be the only guy to get this to work…or not. Andy, you beat me to the punch on that last line. By the way Sam, we consider 26 wins PROGRESS, especially when compared to 13. The Knicks the top 5 in the NBA? Are you hitting the pipe or is it hitting you?

By Samuel

October 5, 2005 10:17 PM | Link to this

Andy and Ray,

I got yo “PIPE” hanging low. When you want it,let me know.

Actually ray, I’m just a Fan of “good” basketball. I aint gonna lose no sleep over none of them. Win or Lose.

Believe me, I do want the Hawks to win. No one want’s to associated with a losing Home Team. That’s why I’m trying to teach you guys that winning mentality.

Study the NBA Rosters and name me (5) Teams with more talent, Top to Bottom and a Hall of Fame Coach and I’ll “Shut UP”.

By Lamont

October 5, 2005 11:09 PM | Link to this

Samuel ! “I think by New York landing Curry it put’s them in the Top 4 teams in the East and TOP 5 in the NBA. I love Jerome James”. How can a team be top 4 in the East ( Heat, Pistons and Pacers among others) and be top 5 in this league ( Spurs, Rockets, Mavs, Suns, among others). Do you really mean what you say ??? I can’t believe it. And you come up to say that you love Jerome James, a guy who has played well ONE playoff series throughout his entire carreer in the NBA. How in the world you want people to respect what you’ve got to say about Curry and the Hawks???

By Ladi Soyomokun

October 6, 2005 04:36 AM | Link to this

I don’t think Billy Knight’s move not sign the big man from Chicago should be questioned. First, the Bulls management must have seen the red flag. That is why Eddy Curry was offered $400,000 per annum for 50 years. If he had been seen as an injury-free potential by his current team, there would not be any need to have put him for sale. Second, I think the Knicks also can smell the coffee, and that is why there is an “if statement” in the contract. Last but not the least, I believe the Hawks management is heading in the right direction,and the harvest time is near.

By Samuel

October 6, 2005 07:50 AM | Link to this

Lamont,

Just do what I said and prove it. The Mavs will be much weaker this year with the loss of Finley, Also the Suns lost two pair of young legs in JJ and Hunter and is not deep at all. The Pistons should be good but do not underestimate the value of losing their “Savior”, LB.

So what James played ONE Playoff series. How many has the other “James” played? Please.

Just watch.

Only a fool would fall for that one($400,000 for 50 years). If you got a death-threatening heart condition, what are the chances of living 50 years. DUUUUHHHH!!!!

I guess New York doesn’t have qualified Doctors there. Good move Curry.

By Andy (HB Ando)

October 6, 2005 10:24 AM | Link to this

Sam,

I now see that blaming your lack of sense on crack is a disservice to crackheads everywhere. You’re just plum loco. But I will say this: As long as you’re here ranting and raving, with a contrarians’ logic to every one of your wacked opinions, this block will never get boring. We will go back and forth all season long. I’m diggin’ it. Babble on, dude. Your brother, Reese, has got your back.

By AaronB

October 6, 2005 01:29 PM | Link to this

And I have Andy’s. Here they are in no particular order; Miami, San Antonio, Detroit, Sacrometo, Cleveland. Cleveland this year will be a sleeper. And I am willing to bet if it weren’t for Larry Brown, even the Hawks have a chance to beat New York. I’ve seen the roster, and I’m not impressed. Nor have any of your pathetic points impressed anyone except your side kick Reese. Any “New York Nick fan” isn’t going to teach anyone about a winning mentality. They need to start over and rebuild too.

By ray

October 6, 2005 07:30 PM | Link to this

First of all, naming teams with talent proves little. Don’t mistake talent for cohesiveness. NY has talent, I’ll not deny it. But is this unit all on the same page? Not likely. Steph and Crawford both want the ball. Where does that leave your two lumps in the post? Want an example of how cohesiveness differs from talent? Pistons vs. Lakers a couple of years ago. Now you can make any excuse for the might Lakers, and that could have gone either way, but which way did it go, hmmm? What you asked for is mixed opinion at best: five teams with more talent top to bottom with a hall of fame coach. We’ve already been through this “hall of fame coach” crap. All I have to do is name a talented team with a coach you don’t think will be hall of fame and we’re right back where we started. So here’s what I’ll do just to stir the pot a bit more. I’ll name some teams, hall of fame coach or not, talented top to bottom or not, that are better than the Knicks right now. Miami, Indiana, Detroit, New Jersey ( yeah, those guys), San Antonio, Phoenix, Sacramento, Houston, and probably Denver and Cleveland. Now YOU tell me how these teams aren’t better. This is of course, just my opinion, the only thing that could shut you up is laringitis. Gotcha Playa :) I have to ask, though, just how are you going to teach a winning attitude. Winning usually means there’s something positive in your message. You be negative like undeveloped photos.

By doc

October 6, 2005 08:32 PM | Link to this

ray, i concur but would add dallas to the mix until they fall. finley was on his beginning to be over the hill swoon and wont be missed, if needed cuban will get something.

samuel, ny will not have enough balls on the floor especially when houston is added to the mix. brown will be tested to the max and his kidney problem might come back sooner than we think. ny is not top five in the east much less the nba.

By James Lemaire

October 7, 2005 06:32 AM | Link to this

Do exactly what Isiah did and hope for the best. If Curry is not cleared to play, I will get my disgruntled players back.

By ray

October 7, 2005 08:01 PM | Link to this

I concede that point, doc. Cuban does have deep pockets and will do what it takes to get something going.