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DEL.ICIO.USHouse approves concealed gun bill
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
UPDATED
The Georgia House jumped back into the long-running debate over gun rights Monday, approving legislation that would allow motorists to conceal loaded firearms in their cars without a permit.
Proponents say House Bill 89 would let motorists keep firearms in easy reach to defend themselves against carjackers and other criminals. But critics say the measure would circumvent the state’s concealed handgun background check requirements and endanger police making traffic stops.
The House approved HB 89 on a bipartisan vote of 130-38 Monday, capping its first extended — and heated — debate of this year’s legislative session.
The bill now goes to the Senate, where one of the chamber’s Republican leaders said it has a good chance of passage.
State law now requires motorists who do not have concealed handgun permits to keep their loaded firearms “fully exposed to view” or in the glove box, console or similar compartment.
The bill sponsored by state Rep. Tim Bearden (R-Villa Rica) would allow people to hide guns under seats or wedge them between seat cushions and center consoles.
“It allows a law-abiding citizen … to place a firearm anywhere in the vehicle that they feel is the safest place for their personal protection, for the protection of their family or passengers in that vehicle,” Bearden told lawmakers during a sometimes testy debate that lasted more than an hour.
“What this bill does is just give back a piece — a small piece — of the Second Amendment that has been deprived of so many law-abiding citizens over the last few years.”
The measure is one of several gun-related bills pending in the Legislature. A second would ban police from confiscating guns during a state of emergency such as a hurricane. A third would prohibit certain employers from banning firearms in locked vehicles at employee parking lots or garages.
Last year, the GOP-controlled Legislature approved a law that gives Georgians permission to use deadly force against muggers, carjackers and other attackers without fear of being prosecuted or sued. Supporters labeled it the “stand your ground” law, while critics called it a “shoot first” measure that would encourage reckless shootings.
The National Rifle Association and the Gun Owners of America support Bearden’s bill.
“Very often people who are driving don’t have the luxury of keeping their firearm in plain view,” said NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam.
The 565-member Georgia Association of Chiefs of Police opposes the bill.
“Our association and its members strongly support Georgians’ Second Amendment rights,” Frank V. Rotondo, the association’s executive director, wrote in a letter to lawmakers Monday. “However, the effect of this bill would extend those rights to an absurd level and have the ultimate effect of occasioning more killings of both police officers, and innocent civilians.”
Several Democrats opposed the bill from the House floor Monday.
“Are you not concerned about the safety of police officers in this matter?” Rep. Alisha Thomas Morgan (D-Austell) asked Bearden.
Bearden, a former Douglasville police sergeant, responded: “I can promise you one thing: I would never endorse nor would I author a bill that would endanger any of my brothers and sisters in law enforcement.”
Rep. Roger Bruce (D-Atlanta) asked why the bill is needed.
“The current leadership of this House at the beginning of this session indicated that one of the conditions for a bill should be that it … solves a problem,” Bruce said. “What problem does this solve?”
Bearden responded: “The most dearest thing anyone can do is to protect their family from criminal assault.”
In the Senate, President Pro Tem Eric Johnson (R-Savannah) said the bill stands a good chance of approval there. “Government does not tell a private citizen where they can keep a gun in their home. They should not be able to tell a law-abiding citizen where they can keep a gun in their own personal vehicle.”
Georgians for Gun Safety also opposes the measure, citing statistics that 575 police officers were killed in the line of duty across the country between 1996 and 2005. Of those, 102 were killed during traffic violation stops and felony traffic stops, according to the federal Department of Justice. The federal report does not specify whether guns were involved in those incidents.
State law prohibits people under 21, drug dealers and other felons from obtaining concealed gun licenses. And people applying for the licenses must submit to fingerprinting and criminal background checks.
Alice Johnson, executive director of Georgians for Gun Safety, said Bearden’s bill “erases the distinction that currently exists between someone who can purchase a firearm … and those who can pass the comprehensive background check to get a concealed weapons permit.”
“Many people are turned down for those permit applications because of something in their background that was identified because of that more comprehensive background check,” Johnson said.
Permalink | Comments (42) | Post your comment | Categories: Public safety
Comments
By Chopdawg
February 12, 2007 04:07 PM | Link to this
Ever been in a situation where you were glad somebody DIDN’T have a gun? I’ve been a small-business owner for 35+ years; a few years ago, in my parking lot, two customers got in an argument with each other. One of them went to his truck & pulled out a machete; when he threatened the other guy with the machete, I yelled loudly that I was going inside my store to call 911. The guy with the machete backed off, shouted a few more choice words, got in his truck & left. I was glad then—& I’m still glad now—that guy didn’t have a gun in his truck instead of a machete.
I don’t support any bill in the GA legislature that would make it any easier than it is now for some jackleg, in the heat of the moment, to pull his concealed gun & do something both he & others will be sorry for, the rest of their lives.
By raymond
February 12, 2007 04:11 PM | Link to this
You can check all decisions that have been made by the courts and the 2nd amendment does not give you a right to bear arms, according to the courts this only pertains to maintaining a state militia. This law is crazy and is going to make the availablilty or chance of a vioent crime taking palce even more.
By p
February 12, 2007 04:12 PM | Link to this
Sorry chiefs, as you know, the bad guys don’t care what laws are passed. They already have concealed guns in their cars. So that argument is bogus.
By Doug
February 12, 2007 04:20 PM | Link to this
This is a great move. Crime doesn’t always happen in homes and our Second Amendment rights should extend into the vehicles we own. Law-abiding citizens should have the law working FOR them, not against them. This would be a step in the right direction, empowering the people with rights we should already have.
By K-Officer
February 12, 2007 04:22 PM | Link to this
I posted this in another blog. I am a 32 year veteran police officer and in my opinion this is a bad bill as it is written. I support the right to bear arms 100% But this new bill does very little to change the current law. All it will do is cause many people to think they need to arm themselves. I would be 100% supportive of this bill if it required some form of training or demonstration that the owner new how to safely handle a gun. Many kids, and adults, are killed or hurt, annually because of irresponsible gun owners. Why not require some form of formal training to anyone carrying a gun for any reason just like we do police officers. It makes no sense to allow people to arm themselves when some of them don’t even have a clue which end the bullets come out of. Require gun safety, and safe use, training as part of all gun ownership and I am all for it. Don’t allow any more of our kids to be killed by those folks who feel the need to arm themselves and leave them in their cars. TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING!!!
By Doug
February 12, 2007 04:22 PM | Link to this
This is a great move. Crime doesn’t always happen in homes and our Second Amendment rights should extend into the vehicles we own. Law-abiding citizens should have the law working FOR them, not against them. This would be a step in the right direction, empowering the people with rights we should already have.
By Mike
February 12, 2007 04:23 PM | Link to this
raymond - thanks for sharing your “knowledge”. Please feel free to share more of your legal “facts”. LOL.
By Buck
February 12, 2007 04:25 PM | Link to this
Before this bill passed, there were motorists with firearms in their glove compartments and/or center consoles. The bad guys and gals took them from these places and used them irresponsibly and criminally. The good guys and gals did not. Now, we have the EXACT SAME CIRCUMSTANCES. The fact that the guns may be 5 inches closer or further away makes no difference, whether you are pro or anti-gun. So all of those in panic over this bill, your issue is with guns, not this particular bill. Stay focused.
By MC
February 12, 2007 04:26 PM | Link to this
Anybody, with varying degrees of ease, can have a short fuse and lose the use of all faculties related to self-restraint; this is when they do not need access to firearms.
I hope to God the Senate shoots this down, pun not intended, but I get the feeling they would rather pass it.
By john batchelor
February 12, 2007 04:28 PM | Link to this
the question is: does society have the right to bear arms? what does the Constitution say? the cops already want to see our hands all the time…
By Alex
February 12, 2007 04:30 PM | Link to this
Yeah, this is a burning issue that the Legislature should be worrying about!!! I guess they have already solved all the REAL problems facing our state! Sheesh!
By Roger
February 12, 2007 04:31 PM | Link to this
On the other hand how many civilians are going to get shot by Police Officers whom see the weapon and the frighten driver makes some stupid move that makes it appear that he is going for the weapon. From this point on Police Officers will have to assume every car he stops has a loaded weapon in it no matter who is operating it. Thanks St Rep. Bearden for another useless State Law.
By matt
February 12, 2007 04:33 PM | Link to this
Raymond, your absolutely wrong. The case law supports the 2nd Amendment. If the 2nd Amendment only applied to state militias, it would have said the right of state militias to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Instead, it says “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
By mike
February 12, 2007 04:35 PM | Link to this
the 2nd amendment does NOT give you the right to bear arms? were did you learn that from, some republican nutjob?
By Joeventures
February 12, 2007 04:36 PM | Link to this
This comes from the same sissies who get scared by people who ride MARTA. This is another reason why I’m glad I don’t drive except maybe two days out of the week.
By KingTiger
February 12, 2007 04:36 PM | Link to this
I already have a carry permit, so it won’t affect me. Maybe the AJC should make this a head line when it passes to alert potential car jackers that their intended victims are legally packing, maybe they’ll think twice before getting capped. I’ve carried in my car for more than 20 years and the more armed drivers the better!
By jimm
February 12, 2007 04:40 PM | Link to this
I suggest a new bill which will allow our heat tottin’ legislators to carry concealed guns in the state house.
Perhaps after an angry battle they will shoot each other and end this madness.
By Ann
February 12, 2007 04:44 PM | Link to this
I think this a bad law. There are enough crazy idiots on the road today without giving even more permission to hide a gun in their car. As the mother of a daughter married to a law envorcement official and another daughter dating a police officer, I worry about them whenever I know they are on duty and especially when news of something happening to an officer is broadcast. I think encouraging more people to carry a gun as well as to hide one will only increase the already notable problems Georgia has with violence. I hope this law is buried six feet under, at least!!!
By RLiles
February 12, 2007 04:45 PM | Link to this
“Georgia’s police chiefs association and other critics say House Bill 89 would endanger police making traffic stops. But can the police chiefs site one case where a law abiding citizen has ever shot a cop in a traffic stop? People already have the guns in their cars. There is not going to be a mad rush to purchase guns. And the criminals don’t care about the laws anyway. All gun control laws do is make it harder for a law abiding citizen to protect themselves.
By WakeUpAmerica
February 12, 2007 04:46 PM | Link to this
Outstanding legislation that defends our Constitutional 2nd Amendment rights against governmental tyranny.
http://www.gunowners.org/
By T.C.
February 12, 2007 04:51 PM | Link to this
Let’s start with Raymond. When the founding fathers said militia, they defined militia as all males over 16. All men were in the militia so the right was meant for all men. KOfficer, we might need to temper the training idea. It was just a few months ago that an instructor at the police academy killed a trainee. They were training. Law abiding is just that, law abiding. Have you ever called the police for help, and the responding officer tells you “sorry, but we can’t be everywhere at once” ? You’re on your own if you need fast help. This is a good law.
By Police Officer
February 12, 2007 04:51 PM | Link to this
Raymond,
Unfortunately, the courts don’t always get it right. Look at the number of people that end up wrongfully convicted and I’m saying this as a police officer with years of experience.
Courts also condoned racism, segregation, etc. not too long ago.
I agree that there are court decisions that say the 2nd amendment is not an individual right. However, I think they are wrong.
The 2nd amendment is part of the Bill of Rights. Do some research and you’ll see that the bill of rights was pushed through by the states to guarantee the rights of INDIVIDUALS because they didn’t think the original Constitution did enough to protect them. If they intended the bill of rights to protect individual rights, how can you argue that is not what they intended for ONLY the second amendment? You can’t. The courts are wrong and eventually you’ll see a judge rule that way.
By Bill
February 12, 2007 04:51 PM | Link to this
This law is just another embarrassing bill passed out of an out of touch republican legislature catering to good ole boys in south georgia. This bill will result in the senseless murder of many police officers in the line of duty and citizens who are victims of simple road rage incidents that spiral out of control.
By Brian
February 12, 2007 04:54 PM | Link to this
“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
When the founding fathers were writing the Bill of Rights, thinking of the security necessary to fight against King George and the British Army, for some reason allowing motorist, any motorist to keep a loaded 9mm under the seat of their car was not what Jefferson and Franklin had in mind. Even a strict Constitutionalist would agree, the Second Amendment was written in a different time and under different circumstances. It was written to allow people to defend themselves and their country against against an evading empire. This “Amendment” has turned into a battle cry for people who simply feel the government should not be allowed to set rules to protect individuals. The Georgia Legislature is putting every police officer and law enforement official in danger. In a time when we have too many gun deaths at the hands of the Police and society in general, why would it possibly be a smart idea to write legislation that would in essence make officers more on guard and on edge at every traffic stop…. Why would it be a good idea to make it more accessible for everyone to travel with a gun. Shame on the Georgia Legislature for this Bill. We are simply showing that this State can not evolve and become a safer place to live and raise families. And let it be clear, a few months from now, after this Bill takes effect, I hope all 130 Legislators, elected as public servants to better this State, not to push their own agendas and personal views, stand up at the Funeral of one of our Officers who loses his life due to this Bill and takes responsibility. Because until you decide that you are willing stand up and say you are right under those circumstances, and that this Bill betters this State, you are making a mistake. A mistake that will cost lives, not dollars in the long run.
By Police Officer
February 12, 2007 04:54 PM | Link to this
Roger,
I already assume that every car and every person I deal with has a gun because they do have access to a gun. I bring a loaded gun into the equation EVERY time I enter a situation.
This will not make my job easier or harder. It will not put me in any more danger. You can already legally conceal a gun in the vehicle. You will just be allowed to do it in more places now.
By Edward T Beazley
February 12, 2007 04:57 PM | Link to this
It’s a fact that if you take away the guns, more crime will happen,after all we still have the right to keep and bear arms,so let’s get it on.
By Brad
February 12, 2007 04:58 PM | Link to this
This concerns me with all we hear about road rage these days.
By T.C.
February 12, 2007 05:00 PM | Link to this
Let’s start with Raymond. When the founding fathers said militia, they defined militia as all males over 16. All men were in the militia so the right was meant for all men. KOfficer, we might need to temper the training idea. It was just a few months ago that an instructor at the police academy killed a trainee.
Let’s face it, if you need help fast, you can’t wait on the police to show up.
By WakeUpAmerica
February 12, 2007 05:06 PM | Link to this
Many people are going to arm themselves either way, and I don’t think “Big Brother” needs to be dictating if/how citizens can defend themselves & their loved ones against criminals. Law enforcement officers cannot be everywhere at once. One could say “there are people that shouldn’t have access to firearms”, while that is true there are also thousands that shouldn’t be behind the wheel of a car (theoretically). Bottom line, government size & power needs to be reduced not expanded!
By Ugotta B. Kidding
February 12, 2007 05:09 PM | Link to this
You know, it’s funny that liberals such as Raymond only support “individual rights” when it’s something they’re in agreement with. But when it comes to “individual rights” to own a gun, well that’s something different…right Raymond???
By JTC
February 12, 2007 05:15 PM | Link to this
Come on people, I can’t understand why it is so hard for our lawmakers to understand that they can try to pass prohibiting laws for gun owners untill the cows come home, and it will not change the fact, that the people using guns to brake the law will always be able to get guns, will have them concealed in a vehicle, on the street, and any wherelse they want. The only affect that stricter gun laws has is it leaves law abiding citizens more defensless against the very ones that is not going to abide by any law. Now was that hard to understand.
By legal carry
February 12, 2007 05:27 PM | Link to this
I have mixed feelings on this one. I am CCW licensed and believe that anyone carrying a weapon should be required to be licensed. I would go one further and, like Florida, require extensive firearm training for anyone who carries. Before some nut brings up the “police state taking our weapons because we are now on a list”… The reality is that more and more states are permitting concealed carry which indicates the overall perception that law abiding citizens can and are somewhat responsible. Heck, our fingerprints are on file and we have had a background check. I do however have a problem with the limitations of the restrictions on carry. Not only is it a hassle to hide the weapon in my vehicle when I go to purchase stamps, pick up my daughter at school, visit a state park, go to worship, etc… any druggie or burglar wanting a new stereo could find my weapon and voila.. another gun in the hands of the bad guy. I would venture that the statistics would prove that very few folks with license for concealed carry have ever “gotten crazy”. Those of us with training understand the absolute finality of using our weapons and would use them only as a very last resort. I would venture that those who object the most vehemently to citizens carrying have never had to face a situation where force is mandated.
By MG
February 13, 2007 09:54 AM | Link to this
The General Assembly proposes alot of dumb and silly things, but this one takes the cake. This bill is missing any shred of common sense. Even if it could somehow be interpreted as good public policy, is tiny Villa Rica so overidden with carjackings that this bill is even remotely necessary?
How about making your ideological points about the 2nd amendment in someone else’s legislature. Not here.
By JR
February 13, 2007 11:41 AM | Link to this
MG, you have the choice to move to a state where the majority of the people choose to NOT support legal concealed weapons. Seems that most people in Georgia do. If you don’t like it, don’t let the screen door hit ya where the good Lord split ya. Move to Detroit, LA or New York…the inability for citizens to be armed in those cities should make you feel safe and secure.
I can only surmise that those people who are upset about this bill are afraid that a citizen will shoot their little thug when he does attempt a carjacking in Villa Rica.
By FEDUPWITHGA
February 13, 2007 02:44 PM | Link to this
What’s up with this nonsense? The government can’t get funding for Peachcare to continue but they can dscuss the most asinine topics. Have they thought about all the road rage going on and the fact that this is putting more pressure on the police. And yes, while it is true that a large number of people are already carrying guns without permits this is only going to add fuel to the fire. What I don’t understand is why can’t these law abiding people who are just that afraid of getting carjacked get a permit and be done with it. Lawmakers get your priorities staright!!! And for the bloggers telling people to move your little thug has propbably already been to court in Villa Rica for this exact same reason.
By Karen
February 13, 2007 03:24 PM | Link to this
This bill is about control. You can best believe that you won’t catch me out driving unless I have to when this bill passes. That is why the government is all for it. To keep people out of their cars.
By yamaha
February 14, 2007 04:50 PM | Link to this
Hopefully we can rid the capitol next go round, and the White House, of all the Republicans. This bill is about as useless and crazy as they come. Those non-trained, uneducated, foolish, irresponsible gun owners will now be the first to legally have loaded guns in their cars. Of course I guess it is no surprise a Villa Rica Rep is the one who proposed it in the first place and I guess you do need to be armed all the time in Villa Rica with all those Red Necks already armed to the hilt! The State House needs to be completely SWEPT out of office next election so we can bring some CLASS back to Georgia. Of course like one blogger said, “What do you expect when you have a Governor named Sonny.” And with his Speaker Bubba in place what should we expect?
By Mike Stollenerk
February 15, 2007 08:55 AM | Link to this
If HB 89 passes, GA will join 11 states which respect the 2d Amendment and the privacy & autonomy of your vehicle. See the “Travelers” Tab” at www.OpenCarry.org.
By Sean
February 15, 2007 10:05 AM | Link to this
I can’t wait until this passes…..we need less people down south. This should provide the ammunition (pun intended) to make sure these idiots don’t have the influence over presidential elections anymore. Us people up north just laugh at the ridiculous things you southerners come up with.
By yamaha
February 15, 2007 10:24 AM | Link to this
AMEN SEAN!!! And Since “Sonny Lied” why not go ahead and put the old Battle (Confederate) Flag back up since he is willing to turn Georgia Back to the Redneck State it once was anyway. The Republicans at the House, and Proud Governor can now change the slogan from “The New Georgia” to “The New ARMED Georgia” and oh yea start the shoot outs at High Noon in the New re-developed Peachtree Road area. What a GREAT IDEA to draw more conventions to Atlanta Huh?
By Chris
February 23, 2007 11:39 AM | Link to this
I think you will find this to be as benign as current “free shoot” legislation passed. CCW, Stand your Ground, etc. All who opposed jumped and stomped in rages that all would die in blazes and shoot outs in the streets!!! I have yet to witness this since observing from 1987 to now. Where are these end all time gun battles in the streeets? Where are all the concrete stats of all the slain LE’s from law abiding gun owners/carriers? I have yet to see the apocalyptic end presumed/foretold by the anti-gun groups.
I remember the fruitcakes in the Brady Camp whoopin and hollerin about the SYG law in Florida. Where is the end to their “gloom and doom” theory? When Florida enacted shall issue these same kind of people were ripping cloth and gnashing teeth screaming “everyone is going to DIE!!! The police are going to DIE!!! Blood in the streets!!!”
Certainly peple have, but as these anti-constitutionalists had predicted. In fact we can all go to DoJ and see not only how many have died from firearm use but how many lives HAVE BEEN SAVED by a citizen carrying a firearm. Jan 01 to Jan 26 2007, The number reported was over 270,000! Now this is the same institute that gives you your adverse stats, aso.
The police usually show up after the fact. And if they are going to meet with us, consider they are armed to protect themselves fom what we face. Only they show later. Set aside the 2nd ammend., how does it not make sence that we are armed? I ask all of you, you would rather have anyone harm you and/or your family than to use, arguablly, one of the best tools in the tool box? You prople need to move to France. Wine and cheese. Cowards.
By Ed
February 26, 2007 10:54 AM | Link to this
I do not live in this state, however I do have a License to carry from Ohio and there is no reciprocity between the two states.I usually travel to Florida via Georgia where I usually spend a night and I would like to be legal with my weapon but also have the opportunity to defend myself. This law would allow me to do that. The narrow mindness of people to believe that a criminal,mentally unstable person will abide by the written laws is rediculous. The only people who would be hurt by any anti gun law are the law abiding citizen. Even in the heat of argument any sane and rational person would not use a weapon unless his life is in jeopardy. I truly hope I never have to use my weapon, but at least I have it in case I do. If the police stop someone and he is a felon, criminal, etc. no written law will stop him from carrying a weapon.The police should not fear the law abiding citizen.The way this new world is with carjackings, daylight kidnappings and robberies we need to protect ourselves.The police cannot be everywhere at once.