Capitol Updates

By dg

March 30, 2006 08:23 AM | Link to this

I am concerned about the fake ID’s that high school students use to purchase alcohol. Many innocent lives would be saved if underage drinkers were not able to purchase fake ID’s. I think every parent of a minor should clandestinely check the wallet/purse of their teenage child to see what they are carrying around with them.

By Mary

March 30, 2006 08:35 AM | Link to this

Why not use the system that was put in place with our driver’s license. Make them give up a thumb print. How is requiring a positive way of identifying themselves a bad thing. If they are here legally they should have no problem at all with giving a thumbprint each time they want to apply for a job. Employers wouldn’t have to do it, they could use the equipment at any DOT office. Just send them with the forms and their id and have the DOT check their ID.

By Missy

March 30, 2006 08:56 AM | Link to this

That’s what I was thinking too Mary. I’m an American Citizen and I have no clue how they get their illegal documents, but a criminal is a criminal and will commit many crimes till they are caught and stopped. We want these types of people to become American Citizens? I know I don’t. They are the bottom of the barrel.

By Van

March 30, 2006 08:59 AM | Link to this

This is an age old problem, fake ids, were at one time, were the goal of teenagers to purchase alcohol. College provided a large market with new customers every year.

Today, we have people selling counterfeit Social Security cards and fake “green” cards.

In the past century, the US government has tried making the reproduction of out money a priority. They have developed many great breaktthroughs in securing our paper money supply.

Why can’t these security items be incoporated into the ids we use?

Between water marks, security strips, color shifting inks, holographic emblems and some they won’t talk about, we can secure our identity.

This would also make it easier for companies to fulfil their responsibility with the I-9 form.

While no counterfeit proof device has yet been produced, it has made passing phoney bills harder. Lets bring into this game all the technology we can.

By Missy

March 30, 2006 09:08 AM | Link to this

Amen Van. Perhaps it’s never been done because the Government really dosn’t want to control it. Sounds like a great idea to me.

By dg

March 30, 2006 09:09 AM | Link to this

Mary, wouldn’t every business have to require every job applicant to go to the DOT and take a thumbprint test? How else would employers determine who should and should not be thumbprinted? What would this do to the DOT whose primary responsibility is Transportation?

I think that we should take the need for false papers out of the employment picture by means of reasonable immigration reform.

By GRIER

March 30, 2006 09:14 AM | Link to this

Dear Fine Senators of the Georgia General Assembly:

I read your story this morning in the Atlanta Journal on-line newspaper regarding your deep concern for stopping the mass production of fake ids in the fine state of Ga.

Well after much research I have some very sensible, legal suggestions that I would like to propose to your office on this subject.

I trust you will be able to use them and bring them to the House for consideration.

American invites/ welcomes EVERYONE (except drug dealers) into our wonderful land of opportunity BUT you must become legal ONCE you do decide to remain here. It is only fair!!

God Bless you and your families! (Get some much needed rest)

Of course you can revise these suggestions:

(There MUST a Regulatory Dept./ Agency established within the State of Ga. in order to carry out these suggestions/ functions offered below.) This Agency will work VERY closely with the local Ga. Law Enforcement Entities in Every county of the State of Ga.

These laws can ALL be comprised under “The Ga. Cease Fake ID Production Act” or something to that effect. The Agents and Auditors hired to enforce ALL of the laws included in this Act are to be paid from money that the State of Ga. receives for Homeland Security from the Federal Government.

If caught the first time with Fake ID documents- A Class I Misdemeanor/ punishable by a $200. fine/ 50 community service hours

If caught the second time with Fake ID documents- A Class II Misdemeanor/ punishable by a $500. fine and 100 community service hours

If caught a third time with Fake ID documents- A Felony/ punishable by a $10,000. to $20,0000. fine/ 1 year in prison

The ONLY way to keep down lawsuits or cries of Discrimination is to make it a crime for ANYONE to have fake ID documents that includes American teen-agers.

Make it a 5 to 10 year Felony for the owners of these businesses with a fine of $10,0000. to $50,0000 for each occurrence.

If they are caught doing it twice then either suspend or take their licenses.

ALSO confiscate ALL of their computers to check for Fake ID producing software that can be used as evidence against them in court.

Remember there MUST be Probable Cause for doing so OR the evidence won’t hold up in court.

Please also be aware that many of these new “SMART CARDS” are being used to store money to be sent back to foreign countries. MANY Illegal Immigrants use them so that they won’t have to use banks.

Who produces them? Check Cashing places and businesses that produce Fake IDs.

Or the state of Ga. can produce Fake ID “Wall of Shame” posters to be displayed in these same businesses.

The book will help employers be able to verify AND spot Fake ID documents.

The book needs to be published either every year or every two years because the business of Fake ID document production has become so sosphicated.

ALSO require that EVERY Human Resource Director within the State of Ga attend Fake ID Document Detection/ Verification training. This includes NEWLY hired H.R. Directors.

The training MUST be documented by the state along with all of their other State/ Federal procedures. No Excuses!

Employers in the State of Ga (this includes the Airports) will then have NO excuse about not having been to detect Fake ID documents. This will make the employers become MORE liable when evidence has been found that they knowingly and willingly hired Illegal Immigrants.

The fine when caught: $100,000. to $500,000. PER Infraction/ Charge.

EVERY LAW ENFORCEMENT ENTITITY/ AGENCY WITHIN THE STATE OF GA. WILL RECEIVE NEW, UP TO DATE TRAINING IN FAKE ID DETECTION/ FAKE ID CRIMES/ HUMAN TRAFFICKING/ CYBERSPACE CRIMES FUNDED BY THE HOMELAND SECURITY FEDERAL FUNDING! (I am not yelling. I am just using bold print for the serious nature of this training.)

Why so steep a punishment?

Because MOST of these Internet sites ALSO deal in Human Trafficking as well.

These businesses will be discovered by the Agents hired by the State of Ga. to enforce the laws comprised under “The Ga. Cease Fake ID Production Act” or whatever you want to call it.

Any person within the State of Ga. caught driving with a Fake Ga. Driver’s License will be charged with the crimes of Driving without a Valid License, Possession of Fake ID Documents and will have Ga. State Driving Privileges Revoked for a period of 1 Year.

Let them know that they are very much welcome in the State of Ga. but they have they will have to follow Federal and State laws just like everyone else because they CHOSE to come to our country of their own free will.

(I hope NONE of this sounds cold-hearted because I am a Christian and I don’t hate anyone regardless of their ethnicity.)

By General Lee

March 30, 2006 09:25 AM | Link to this

Join the fight to get them out of Georgia

http://www.thedustininmansociety.org/

By George Rodriguez Espada

March 30, 2006 09:32 AM | Link to this

There are solutions to the problem, local enforcement know the individuals who are in the business of fake ID, they know where they are and where they hang out. Channel 5 TV did an expose on the issue and they found them in shopping centers on corner very easyly in the latino areas of Atlanta in every county. A task force or coalition of law enforcement needs to be developed to work together and do coordinated sweeps. It’s not rocket science.

George Rodriguez

By E. Lewis

March 30, 2006 09:39 AM | Link to this

They might be fake, but most of the employers know this.

As for who should control, that would probably depend on who originates the document: the state for drivers license, the feds for social security.

By dg

March 30, 2006 09:46 AM | Link to this

GRIER, you are not cold-hearted, innocent people are being victimized by the fake ID black market. Identity theft is a prime example.

As far as illegal workers are concerned, it is already a crime to work with false papers. Working WOP, or without papers is not a crime. If an alien is caught with false papers they are charged with a crime, I think it’s a felony - not sure, and subject to deportation.

If we really wanted to go all out with this issue we would establish some sort of federal ID database where anyone living in or visiting the US would have to submit a thumbprint sample to keep on file. Any business or agency that can demonstrate a need for access to the database would have the authorization to do so. It sounds like “big brother” but the question is “how do we eliminate bogus documents?”

By ATLNative

March 30, 2006 09:55 AM | Link to this

Falsifying identities has been an art for centuries… from pen names to aliases to identity theft, if people want to be someone else or don’t want to be found, there will always be a way… and those people will find it.

I agree, thumbprints would be a solution, but there are huge lobbyists in this country who aim to protect the rights of law abiding citizens who don’t want to be “in the system”. It’s not that these people have something to hide, but rather, they don’t trust the government (imagine that). Think about it, the only people who are “in the system” are criminals and those who volunteered fingerprints by way of firearm permit or other means. The government wants everyone in the system, while many Americans want to stay unknown and live their lives without the worry of someone pulling their name out of a hat. If their name isn’t in the hat, they have nothing to worry about. So, while the thumbprint idea is valid, it’s never going to happen without feverish opposition.

So, how do we get employers to only hire legal American workers? You MUST appeal to their bottom line… the almighty $$$. It’s the only reason they hire illegals in the first place. Yes, many illegals are harder workers than their American counterparts, but contractors and business owners only care about profit.

I say we take a large portion of the money being given in welfare from those who are able to work, but don’t have jobs, and put it to use in the form of wage support (to fill the wage gap) and also to fund the efforts in fortifying our borders.

As far as fake ID’s go: it’s like radar detectors in cars. Cops got radar, drivers bought radar detectors, cops got more advanced radar that was harder to detect, the radar detectors got more sophisticated… it’s a never ending cycle. As the ID’s get more and more sophisticated, so will the technology to forge them.

In regards to high schoolers and alcohol… if your kid wants a fake ID to buy alcohol, don’t look to the system to make better ID’s, look in the mirror and ask the person you see how they’re going to be a better parent. Drunk driving, while made possible by the unlawful obtaining of alcohol, is 100X more the responsibility of parents to teach their kids the dangers of alcohol. Inform and empower your kids to make sound choices… make them accountable for their own actions… and don’t expect the government to do your job for you.

By VEH

March 30, 2006 10:03 AM | Link to this

Good News….I’m no longer a Democrat…this issue force me out of the party of fools

By dg

March 30, 2006 10:27 AM | Link to this

ATLNative, you are right about the ingenuity of those that want to get around an obstacle.

I don’t believe in monetary government transfers from one group to another. However, I do believe that far too many people, legal and illegal are taking advantage of a bloated government welfare system that was designed for the needy. I would like to see a system where every able-bodied person, regardless of their legal status should pay a portion of their non-emergency Medicaid expenses up-front. It would be considered a co-pay. If you are feeling sick and would like Medicaid to pay, you either borrow the money or save it up depending on how sick you are feeling. I bet alot of people would start paying better attention to what they are eating, drinking and smoking under this system.

By al

March 30, 2006 10:46 AM | Link to this

The system is in placed already. DOL knows when a person goes to work for any company that reports empolyment taxes. Just entry the SS# throught the WRAPs styems that the govt already have paid millions to create but do not use in our best intrest.

They know if you received workers comp, Unemployment benifits and SSI but can tell if you or your documents id numbers are real.

This is our govt at it best.

By ATLNative

March 30, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

@dg, I admit, robbing Peter to pay Paul isn’t always the “ideal’ solution, but when Peter’s getting paid to do nothing and Paul wants to sneak in and take the jobs that Peter should be doing, I think it benefits both issues.

So are you proposing using the savings from Medicaid to pay for border security?

The government has been trying for years to reduce our “sin intake” (smoking, drinking, etc.) by hitting us in the pocket book… unfortunately, those habits are influenced by society and require social reform. It takes less glorification by pop culture and, as I said in my first entry, an increase in parental involvement in order to teach people how to live responsibly.

But, I digress… we’re talking about immigration here. It’s going to be cheaper to keep them out than it is to keep track of them inside our borders. However, the $$$ has to come from somewhere… and if it’s going to result in taking more from my pocket, I’m gonna have a SERIOUS problem with it if we’re still paying people to do nothing.

By Etric

March 30, 2006 10:52 AM | Link to this

Treat any false ID cases as identity theft, epsecially SS cards. And the same for those who supply them. Go directly to jail for a looooong time. Permanently ban anyone caught using phony ID from ever coming to the U.S. legally. And for the illegals convicted, don’t just give them “3 squares and a cot”, put them to work on “work farms”, growing the food they’ll eat and building where they will live. Perhaps if we make life miserable enough for them, they won’t come back.

By dg

March 30, 2006 11:05 AM | Link to this

That’s right, al. An employer can “check papers” right now. They can tell if the SS# is a valid number but they can’t verify who the number belongs to. And why do you think this is? It’s a system where we in the US talk out of both sides of our collective mouth. On one side we say, “stay away, we don’t want you.” On the other side we say, “well, if you get here you can work as much as you want and stay as long as you want, just don’t get into trouble.” This system has served us pretty well for the past 60+ years. Because of 9/11 it has exposed a vulnerability to terrorism. I say we should address the illegal worker problem as a labor issue and terrorism as a homeland security issue. All of the hijackers entered legally and not one them was Latino. If we screw up our economic balance we will be giving bin Laden a bonus that could only be Allah-sent.

By Jim

March 30, 2006 11:24 AM | Link to this

I have a solution for all this Mexican immigration mess. All of you Mexicans go back to Mexico and vote to become the 51st State in the Union. Then there would be no problem with documents, etc..Then a fence could be erected on the border of Mexico and Guatemala and that would reduce immigration from that source. All Americans could then go down and buy all the beachfront property in Mexico and the construction activity would keep everyone employed for a long time.

By junior charles

March 30, 2006 11:43 AM | Link to this

atlanta you are the most racial state in the whole of the united states,i taste the venon in your comments,sign your full names,it is just a matter of time before you go back to lynching,thank god it is not the blacks you are targeting this time what a shame.thank god i live in the caribbean,the republic of trinidad and tobago.come down for carnival and enjoy some sea and sand you do nt have to legal or illegal to visit.

By Harleyman

March 30, 2006 11:53 AM | Link to this

@ JUNIOR CHARLES:

When we Georgians want your opinion of us, we’ll shove it up your island-hopping Jesse Jackson wannabe racewhore @ss. Otherwise sit down and shut the #&! up. We don’t care what you sand baggers down there think of us. If it weren’t for our tourist money, you idiots would *DIE.

Now, regarding this topic of fake documents, I think the pros at CB.S. news and Dan Rather should look into the situation. After all, they were the professionals at passing along fake documents as authentic.

By meme

March 30, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

Dear JC, if people were only visiting, illegal immigration wouldn’t be a problem.

By karen

March 30, 2006 11:57 AM | Link to this

Jim…I like that idea and I’ve often wondered why Mexico isn’t a State. The only reason I can think of as to why they aren’t one is that Mexico is prejudice against all the other South American countries and they wouldn’t want them to be crossing their borders illegally.

Can you imagine…Mexico as the 51st state and trying to pass legislature to keep out Illegal Immigrants !!! That’s probably what would happen LOL

By Van

March 30, 2006 12:34 PM | Link to this

dg,

The SSA has a program to check SSN’s

To verify up to 5 names/SSNs - Just call our toll-free number for employers - 1-800-772-6270 - weekdays from 7:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m., Eastern time. You’ll be asked for your company name and employer identification number (EIN). Then, you will need to verify the following information for each of your employees:

(1) SSN, (2) Last name, (3) First name, (4) Middle initial (if applicable), (5) Date of birth, and (6) Gender.

If the last name sounds Irish and the person doesn’t look Irish(gray, green or blue skin) then it is a good possibility, they are using bad papers.

By Sam-HEAD

March 30, 2006 12:43 PM | Link to this

Start with stoppping the parent of the children being born from getting a birth record.Once they have a birth record it contain a SS # which can be used by any of his parent friends to be get a job.

By dg

March 30, 2006 12:46 PM | Link to this

Prior to 1845 the entire southwest United States was a part of the Republic of Mexico. That would include California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Utah, Nevada and Colorado. President James Polk was elected in 1846 and believed in the policy of Manifest Destiny. He provoked a war with Mexico in order to expand the US borders from Coast to Coast. Mexico lost the Mexican-American War and sold the northern territories to the United States for a pittance. Many Americans were against the purchase because they felt that we were taking war spoils from a battered nation. Shortly after the sale, gold was discovered in San Franciso. That’s why you see Mexican protestors with signs that say, “we didn’t cross the border, the border crossed us.” Fifty-first State? fat chance.

By dg

March 30, 2006 12:48 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Van. That’s informative.

By Jim

March 30, 2006 12:51 PM | Link to this

Nothing has been done in the past because congress and the president have failed miserably to do something effective on the federal level. Did we just wake up last week and notice 22 million ILLEGAL CRIMINALS have invaded our country? Employers are looking for ways not to realize they are breaking the laws with whom they are hiring. Hit them all in their wallet. Make it a felony to hire a person who is not here legally. This will make them go for real proof. The 6% payment employers will deduct from a persons pay if they can’t provide a tax ID is a joke, they’ll just go to another place to work. We have allowed this mess to go on for far too long and now we are scurrying around to rectify the problem. I’m sure whatever the solution is, it’ll be a little too little a little too late. It’s like feeding that stray cat that showed up, once you do…that cat is here to stay.

By VEH

March 30, 2006 01:01 PM | Link to this

Junior Charles, I’m a Black man, born in the South and proud of it. I’m aganist illegal immigration and fake identification documents…or any outsiders trying to take over my country, so what’s your point.

By Becky

March 30, 2006 01:19 PM | Link to this

All fake identification can be spotted with the correct training. For instance, social security cards are no longer typed manually. If the typing is extra dark, not centered…there is a good chance it is fake.

By Amy

March 30, 2006 01:35 PM | Link to this

“Working WOP, or without papers is not a crime.”

Actually dg, working without papers IS a crime. Unless you’re a US Citizen or Permanent Resident (with a valid PR Card), you must have an Employment Authorization Document to work legally.

By dg

March 30, 2006 01:48 PM | Link to this

Okay Amy, but the difference is working legally and illegally. If you are pretending to work legally and are found carrying false papers you will be treated as a criminal. If are not pretending to be legal and have no papers to show you haven’t committed employment fraud. Then the onus is on the employer. That’s why we have the whole issue with false papers.

By ATLNative

March 30, 2006 02:47 PM | Link to this

The problem with stiff penalties is that there’s not enough man-power to enforce it… not to mention it brings up potential 8th Amendment violations, so don’t bank on making it a felony to employ illegals. Don’t get me wrong, I like the idea, but it will never happen.

You can’t get rid of poisonous fruit by making the fork illegal… you have to take away the desire to eat the fruit. Therefore, if we fill these “much needed jobs” (as stated by the immigration proponents) with people who are on Welfare, who need jobs in the first place, there’s less reason for the immigrants to come.

By dg

March 30, 2006 03:06 PM | Link to this

Sorry, ATLNative, if people on welfare wanted to work, (that’s different than wanting a job) they wouldn’t be on welfare. That’s like the suggestion that we take eager to work prisoners out on day labor jobs. Why would they be in prison if they were so interested in working?

Part of why people are so anxious to come here is for economic freedom. That means that employers still have a degree of freedom to choose who they employ.

Reform immigration policy to reflect the fabulous growth we have acheived over the last few decades. Remember, it was Bill Gates that said that there was never going to be a need for more than 64K of memory in a home PC. Even Wal-Mart has dropped the “made in the USA” promise. Times are a changing and we either lead or follow.

By ATLNative

March 30, 2006 03:28 PM | Link to this

Of course, if people wanted to work, they wouldn’t be on welfare… but what if they didn’t get that money unless they took one of the thousands of jobs out there that illegals currently take? Those same people also remain on welfare because they don’t HAVE to get a job, so why would they WANT to?

The idea of welfare was to assist people until they got back on their feet… it’s been distorted to the point that it being abused. Sure, not everyone on welfare will be able to fill the jobs that illegals take, but I am willing to bet there are hundreds of thousands, if not millions who do.

Economic freedom is not about free money… it’s the right to establish any free enterprise you want, within the law, and you’re right - it does mean you can hire who you want, but it does not mean you can hire illegal aliens. If immigrants want to come here and start a business, that’s fine. I have no problem with that because they will have to have a license and pay taxes to operate legally.

There’s another “group” who works here and doesn’t pay taxes… they’re called drug dealers. Are we going to tolerate them because America is a land of economic freedom? No, we need to secure the borders to keep the drugs out too… it’s a win, win, win situation. Better borders means fewer illegals, fewer drugs, fewer terrorists, and using welfare recipients means lower unemployment.

By dg

March 30, 2006 03:49 PM | Link to this

I am absolutely opposed to hiring illegal aliens. I am for some reasonable form of immigration reform.

I am glad you asked about the drug dealers. That too is a supply and demand situation. We pay whatever they ask for the drugs. Whose fault is that? Kind of goes back to the point you made earlier about teaching your children well.

By ATLNative

March 30, 2006 04:03 PM | Link to this

Who knows what the solution will be… as long as no one gets the idea that one solution will absolutely work. Everything will have consequences, it’s going to be a matter of what hurts the least.

I just know that immigrating here has to seem like a priviledge again and not a right. When was the last time you joined a club without going through the process of becoming a member?

America is the club that everyone wants to join… but you gotta pay the dues.

nice discussion, dg… thanks for your input. Until next time…

By my alibi

March 30, 2006 04:05 PM | Link to this

Did nobody else find junior’s comment about Atlanta being a STATE rather amusing? Most of the illegal workers my ex-boss employed, he forged their paperwork for them, so he could turn that in to HIS boss. Georgia driver licenses were too hard to forge(not sure about now) so they almost all had North Carolina IDs.

Employers have to be willing to enforce the laws, and that is going to be difficult to do when they have such cheap labor. The politicians can pass any law they like, but I bet they wouldn’t turn in their housekeeper, landscaper, nanny, etc. Sounds great in theory, but practical application is a completely different animal.

By dg

March 30, 2006 04:10 PM | Link to this

same to you ATLNative….

By Lee

March 30, 2006 04:23 PM | Link to this

Lets face it folks, this newly passed bill will go to court where more than likely it will be tossed out. The federal government doesn’t want individual states to start legislating policies on immigration. The GA Legislature has wasted a lot of time on this issue when they could be tackling some other important issues. Though I am caucasian, I have no doubt much of this bill comes from the pits of racism.

By NParry

March 30, 2006 04:27 PM | Link to this

The idea of “meaningful” reform is over for now…as per the AJC today, it might even be winter of 2006-07 before anything is settled.. Big business wins, senators win and whoever wins in 2006 will forget about this for a while….

By BB

March 30, 2006 04:40 PM | Link to this

It’s funny to me that whenever the opposition to this legislation speak out they somehow always side step the word “illegal” in the words illegal immigrant and use only immigrant. There is just a basic disagreement with both sides. For what ever reason the proponents and opponents of this bill have different meanings for the word illegal. The fact of the matter is that there is only one meaning for the word and if people don’t what to except it then they will compromise what it truly means to be an American. We are a country of laws and this is a slap in the face when people who are not citizens can protest laws of a country that they are not even citizens of. It’s really ashame!

By Jim

March 30, 2006 04:51 PM | Link to this

When the only arguement you can come up with is racism it just shows you don’t have a good defense. Get something new, that old car just won’t crank and run anymore. How can it be racism to expect any and all people to obey our laws, not to forge government documents and don’t do identity theft. So, if this is racism what you’re saying amounts to the fact that you only expect whites to obide by the laws, adhere to policies and follow rules. Racism is not asking people to obey laws. If this is racism to you, then you have spent far too much of your life behind some ethniticiy and not pulling your load and doing your fair share and you too have probably lived for many days, years probably, on my tax dollar. I am a white male (surprise!) and have lived by the law and paid my fair taxes all my life and I expect the same from everyone in this country; to even think you are exempt from the same rules tells me you have ridden the free bus far too long.

By Texas Reader

March 30, 2006 05:08 PM | Link to this

Somewhere in today’s news was a notice that Great Britain was going back to a national ID (the first since WW II) to help stop terrorism and illegal immigration. It was a smart card that held, as I recall, fingerprint and eye scan information.

Why not us? Why not now? What part of illegal don’t you understand?

By Charles Farley

March 31, 2006 08:38 AM | Link to this

American teenagers don’t NEED fake IDs to get crack or heroin. Fake government documents (like ID cards and drivers licenses) are ALREADY totally illegal, so we don’t need a “New Program” to deal with this issue. We have already paid into the tax base to have this problem handled. But law enbforcement is too busy looking for drugs. Their futile attempts to stop losers from getting high is causing them to totally neglect ALL of the other laws that need to be enforced. It’s a matter of priorities and fake IDs don’t net police departments a dime, drugs do. Drug arrests allow them to take cars, property, children and money from people legally. The Fake ID business nets law enforcement nearly NONE of those kinds of side benefits, so why on earth would they actively go after such crimes unless one lands in their lap?

Reality is all that is missing, the laws are already in place!

Charles Farley