Geekboy

By Christopher

April 5, 2006 4:32 PM | Link to this

Apple isn’t encouraging people not to use their OS. I have a Mac with a G4 processor, and it runs Windows XP just fine (as do all G4 and G5 Macs), using a Microsoft program called Virtual PC (which is about $200). Virtual PC will not run on the new Intel Macs, and Apple is simply ensuring their current customers don’t have a reason not to upgrade to an Intel Mac. In fact, this could persuade Windows users to try out a Mac, since their existing software library won’t have to be replaced. By the way, user tests show the new Intel Macs run Windows and Windows apps FASTER than equivalent (same processor and speed) “designed for Windows” computers.

As for Mac software being more expensive and not as useful, that’s really a matter of opinion. For IRC chat, Adium does a great job (and it’s free) AND it allows you to access AIM/AOL/iChat, Y!, MSN, GoogleTalk and other systems.

By Bob in SF

April 5, 2006 4:35 PM | Link to this

I agree to a point about the applications but I don’t see this as a flag wave by Apple but more of an admission that people were doing the dual-boot hack almost as soon as the intel chip Macs hit the shelves. I consider myself ambidextrious when it comes to computers; my primary laptop is a iBook and my desktop is a custom a64 PC I built myself. I used to work as a A+ tech on both Macs and PCs and it always shocked me how insulted my Mac customers were that their computer could ever break down or that their OS could ever get damaged/corrupted like a lowly PC. The commercials never said that could happen! But ALL computers can break and ALL OS’s can have the occasional problems. Don’t get me wrong, I think Macs are great machines and their OS is an elegent solution but the amount of develepmont and applications for Apple products (at least until the iPod) have always lagged far behind PCs because of two major reasons; Macs are only 5% at best of the personal comuter world and also the zealous protectiveness of licensing and developing for their products by Apple Corp. If Jobs had licensed MacOS 15-20 years ago to other manufacturers, MS probably would not exist as the juggernaut it is now. Mac-philes will say this is because Apple is concerned about quality but I have always felt it was much more reflective of Stevie J. always having to be in ultimate control of his creations. Before all the Mac folks flame me, let me remind you I really like Macs! I just don’t think they are truly the end all-be all of personal computing. :)

By walter

April 5, 2006 4:55 PM | Link to this

“As most people know, the Intel-based Macs will run Microsoft’s Windows XP, but now Apple has announced they’ve released beta software that makes the process a bit easier.”

That statement is completely incorrect. Windows XP was never meant to be supported by the Intel Core Duo machines. Windows Vista will work just fine, but XP was never meant to be supported on these machines.

Best Buy doesn’t sell Apple products so why would they sell Apple software? Go to Fry’s Electronics, go to CompUSA, go to MicroCenter, and look for Apple Software. It’s available at all those stores.

If Microsoft could actually release an update to Windows XP (how old is that now?) instead of delaying it (yet again) then there would be no news at all today. Windows Vista will run natively on the Apple Intel Macs. But instead of waiting for Microsoft to maybe, possibly, might happen - might not, deliver Vista, they came out with their own app to allow Windows users to enjoy the Mac hardware.

It also creates a wonderful dual boot opportunity for those of us who use Mac’s on a daily basis but need to check things on Windows machines.

Oh and the application is called “Boot Camp” which you could have found in about 30 seconds if you took the time to visit www.apple.com

By Chris

April 5, 2006 4:57 PM | Link to this

I read a short blurb about it online this morning and could tell it was a boot loader…and I’m not tech savvy. I don’t think it’s so much as Apple surrendering as Apple knowing that letting XP run on a Mac will sell more Macs. Marketing 101.

By Joe

April 5, 2006 5:01 PM | Link to this

Apple has been at least in recent times both trendy and pricey. In my opinoin if Apple wants to compete with Windows desktops they’ll have to come down in price. Unless you work in the audio/video editing or development realm, I really don’t see a reason to spend the extra money. Especially if you’re going to be running Windows software. This is the 2nd disappointing thing I heard from mac this year. The iPod speaker system/mini “major” announcement was a flop. If they don’t make a big splash with the video iPod I think they might be slipping back to obscurity.

By Jim

April 5, 2006 5:09 PM | Link to this

For those of you who think this isn’t a win for Windows in the Mac vs Windows debate. Where’s the press release from Windows announcing they will build in support for the MAC OS into their hardware? There isn’t one b/c why would they bother supporting something only 5% of the market cares about.

I think mac’s are fine and have considered the mac-mini b/c it’s cool looking. But please stop with the mac is superior bit, it’s tiring.

By David

April 5, 2006 5:13 PM | Link to this

Market share aside, preference for Windows or Mac seems, to me, largely subjective. I crossed over from the former to the latter four or five years ago. I detested Windows and the frequent all-nighters required to fix driver conflicts and other anomalies. My Macs and their software break FAR less often and I’m almost always able to fix problems myself. True, I’d prefer a larger Mac market share so that I never have to turn to a Windows machine to run some application that hasn’t been written for Mac. That’s why I applaud the new Intel Macs and their apparent potential to run the odd Windows program full speed. As for the software that comes loaded on every Mac, it’s absolutely outstanding. “Pathetic and expensive” are words that would never have occurred to me in the context of Mac apps. In any event, the bottom line is that one should go for the system that fulfills one’s need and if that system happens to present a comfortable, intuitive, dependable user interface, so much the better. For me, that’s Mac. If, on the other hand, Windows floats your boat, terrific. I’m mystified but thankful I have an alternative.

By anonymousella

April 5, 2006 5:24 PM | Link to this

@joe: two words: mac mini. it’s $600 and comes with about as much power, and more software, as the $749 windows pc i bought last summer. when i priced similarly equipped macs and PCs, i found that the price difference was minimal. and if we’re talking high-end machines with dual processors, macs are cheaper — like an entire $1000 or $2000 cheaper.

@geekboy: pull your head out of your arse and stop spouting holy war rhetoric from five years ago. there are plenty of software titles and free apps available for the mac.

but this is not a surrender by apple. it’s smart business (a) they stay in step with the hacking community. (b) they make nice with its design user base (c) win converts (like me) who would buy a mac but for the fact that she has $2000 worth of windows-based design software.

By jacob

April 5, 2006 6:33 PM | Link to this

In the professional world those who can use Mac’s do, and those who can’t complain about it in nit-picky blogs.

By guy

April 5, 2006 6:48 PM | Link to this

You want free software choice? Try fink on OS X. Right now they have 6405 programs that can be build.

http://pdb.finkproject.org/pdb/index.php?phpLang=en

You want IRC? Try Adium. Apple doesn’t have a 3rd party filezilla type of app because it doesn’t need one. The sharing preferences under system preferences are far more intuitive than anything on windows. If you want an ftp client you can use Safari, or mount the FTP server like a Plan 9 (from Bell Labs) system.

Besides, FTP has been out of fashion for years. Fugu is a wonderful SCP client written in Cocoa for OS X.

BTW, it is written “OS X”, not “OSX”.

By Dwayne

April 5, 2006 6:55 PM | Link to this

So is this like the 2nd or 3rd note written here hating on Apple? I have never had a Apple computer and have only had the ipod for maybe 4 months but I do realize how good they are. Did you have a big glass of Hatorade lately?

By pcjeffmac

April 6, 2006 8:24 AM | Link to this

You can find software for Mac that is in fact better than what you get on windows. I am a developer/software engineer and have used windows and mac alike. My mac blows away my windows machines. It is much more compatable with unix based software, because it runs on unix. There is a better ftp client for mac, transmit, it has a nominal cost but is worth it. I think this is a move by apple to sell more hardware, but most people will realize that the Mac os is better, once they gain exposure to the os and all it’s features. Even microsoft office performes better on the mac os. How ironic.

By Devoted Mac User

April 6, 2006 8:55 AM | Link to this

From the Apple site:

“More and more people are buying and loving Macs. To make this choice simply irresistible, Apple will include technology in the next major release of Mac OS X, Leopard, that lets you install and run the Windows XP operating system on your Mac. Called Boot Camp (for now), you can download a public beta today.”

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/

By whoDean

April 6, 2006 9:11 AM | Link to this

This move by Apple is to convert more “switchers” from Windows, when you can bring along your software investment but try the world’s best OS at the same time. It is a transition thing. One of the best by-products for long time Mac users is the ability to run state of the art Windows games, developers are always late or behind in developing OSX games.

By bob

April 6, 2006 9:44 AM | Link to this

I see a couple of people have beat me to the punch concerning that idiotic filezilla and free software comment, but I’ll add to it. I use Filezilla on the PC because I must, it is lousy, insecure, bad GUI windows software at its worst. Try Fugu, or one of the other free secure ftp clients for Mac. Or better yet, try to get a secure client for windows that actually is usable, good luck. and then there’s the question of secure servers. There may be 20 of them out there, but they’re pretty much uniformly useless. I’m in a pretty evenly mixed environment, and counting the number of PC techs vs mac techs we need to keep around (6 vs 1), and the cost of using each platform says it all. But if games are why you use a computer, well I guess you have it.

By Tom Haddock

April 6, 2006 9:50 AM | Link to this

On the Apple Online Store shelves is Northstar, a product offered by True North Technology. Users subscribe to Northstar and access PC applications through Safari or any standard browser. An individual or organization can subscribe to Microsoft applications as well as their own organization’s applications. It works on Macs running Panther, Tiger, and Intel based Macs running Tiger. Mac and PC apps can be run side by side versus one OS at a time. A very inexpensive and sensible way to run PC applications from a Mac without having to partition or reboot to run the other operating system.

By CynicalGeek

April 6, 2006 10:25 AM | Link to this

I grew up with a Apple IIe and a IIgs. I never touched a PC until 1993 and never played with Macs since then. I am the IT director of a mid-size law firm that strictly uses PC products. I bought a Mac Mini last spring and my only regret is that I didn’t wait one more year for the Intel-based machines to be released. (Who knew?) After visiting the Apple store in Atlanta I quickly remembered the different culture of Apple users. Apple still has a great product out there and they will make inroads to some users of the PC market. Take everything said with a grain of salt (whether it’s a PC user or a Apple user) that is said about Apple products. I have VirtualPC for Mac and will be loading Windows XP on it this weekend so that I can have Windows on my Mac too!

http://www.cynicalgeek.com/blog/

By mark

April 6, 2006 10:41 AM | Link to this

apples are expensive and make you look cool and that makes you look double cool in your VW

By Wow

April 6, 2006 11:03 AM | Link to this

Oh Geekboy, Geekboy, Geekboy….Where to begin….

First you’re assumptions about how Boot Camp works. It is not simply a Grub like boot loader. All intel based macs use EFI instead of BIOS which Windows is to primitive to understand. All this software does is add extensions to EFI to boot windows and resize the partition to install windows.

Thats it. If you read the statement from apple they have no intention whatsoever of supporting peoples efforts to get windows on their machines. Just like they’ve never tried to stop linux development on their machines and even helped it along in the early years (remember the Mklinux project, oh wait. You’re OS knowledge probably only extended to windows 95 back then. sorry.)

Now why would they do such a thing. Unlike Microsoft, Apple is a software AND hardware company. Obviously they make a high margin on selling systems than they do operating systems. If you could get someone to try out you’re computer and see just how much your software is side by side with the other guys then they’ll keep coming back for more.

As for software not being availble on Mac OS X and no one but apple develops for them what pray tell do you mean? If you are speaking of spyware, viruses (and no that was an actual virus on Mac OS a few weeks ago it was just a theory), or pornography dialers then yes. I agree. Mac OS X is grossly behind Windows in that regard. But in case i missed the hostile takeovers of Adobe, Macromedia, Microsoft, Intuit, etc…I think there are more companies than just apple developing software for the platform.

By Wow

April 6, 2006 11:39 AM | Link to this

BTW, I should say I’m not one of those zealots who think everyone should use a mac (ok, i do). If you think using is the best thing suited for you then by all means do that. HOWEVER, one does not buy a BMW so they can tinker with it. They buy the cheap POS to do that. It is obvious to anyone with just a little experience with the computer world that unix based systems blow away anything microsoft has ever produced (except probalby their own BSD variant back in the 80s). It is also obvious that Windows XP is every bit as robust as Mac OS X 10.1. Its ok for a lot of things but beign forced to use it 8 hours a day is PAINFUL. I do web design and I’m pretty heavy on the flash, html and graphic design. At work we’re a PC world and forced to use Dell workstations running XP pro. Everyday I load Dreamweaver, Flash 8, Photoshop and Fireworks a few browser windows and Outlook. For the first few minutes i’m ok. Then, usually around 1pm, my computer slows down. after a few more hours i’m doing a manual reboot. without fail, everyday, this happens. I’ve gotten used to it and intergrated it into my human interaction time. But when I go home and load the exact same programs (save outlook) to do extra work on the weekend they never fail me. Same companies. Same programs. Different OS’s. Hmmmm, curious.

And there you have the basic difference between the two platforms:

Mac = BMW PC = Ford Festiva

Both will do the exact same thing. Just the other will do it better, faster, more efficiently and for several years.

By Geekboy

April 6, 2006 11:56 AM | Link to this

Thanks for all the comments.

Some of you know more about Boot Camp than me, and that’s great. I intend to never use it. If you have multiple computers you don’t need to select an OS at boot time.

I use an Apple at work because the AJC software requires it, otherwise I would stick to Linux for serious apps and Windows for entertainment.

I appreciate the comments on Adium and Fugu, I like that readers are giving other readers some options. That’s what this blog is supposed to be about, helping people figure out how to best use what they have, be it an Apple, PC, or Vic-20.

Wow had some good comments, but when he says there’s more profit in hardware than software, he’s wrong.

That’s why Microsoft is not in the PC hardware business, the profit margins are exceedingly thin because there is so much competition.

Meanwhile, I will stand by my initial premise, that Apple realizes they will never be able to compete with PCs on the software front, and have conceded as much.

By Uncle Bill

April 6, 2006 1:08 PM | Link to this

Yep, I can see the Mac’s new campaign now… “We’re a better Windows than Windows.” Oh, wait a minute that was an IBM OS/2 add from the early nineties. The MAC was toast from day one. It’s always been for amateurs (aka students). The money’s in Intel. Victory is sweet.

By CynicalGeek

April 6, 2006 1:46 PM | Link to this

“I use an Apple at work because the AJC software requires it,”

You mean the AJC is able to acquire software for Apples?

“Meanwhile, I will stand by my initial premise, that Apple realizes they will never be able to compete with PCs on the software front, and have conceded as much.”

I feel that this is an extension of Apple’s “Switch” campaign and a very effective extension at that.

By Gary B.

April 6, 2006 2:33 PM | Link to this

Geekboy…What have you been smoking ????…The Apple OS is so much better then Microsofts Windows its not even funny….and show me one Professional Photographer, Film maker, Video Editer, etc…that prefers to work on a Windows PC ….they all use an Apple Mac…This was a brilliant move by Apple…now people can really see the benefits of owning an Apple Mac, and still be able to play there “Windows Only” games or use any “Windows Specific ” business programs that they are forced to use…and do it all on one machine…an Apple !

By Geekboy

April 6, 2006 3:08 PM | Link to this

Gary — I am drug tested regularly. I am not a professional photographer, film maker or video editor, and neither is 99.9 percent of the market, which sort of dilutes your argument. I think photoshop works just as well on a PC as a Mac, and I use both every day. Apple will always have its place among professionals, but that is so slim a market, I think Apple’s recent moves (Stealing an OS from the BSD crowd, Intel chips, Boot Camp) are their way of admitting they have painted themselves into a corner.

By Chris

April 6, 2006 3:56 PM | Link to this

If you think this is a “surrender,” think again… just check the stock. It’s up almost 16% in 24 hours… Boo yah! The markets never lie. This is great for Apple… smart move. It’s nothing but FREE marketing - they’ve eliminated the cost of switching for people who have a zillion dollars worth of PC software (other than the equipment cost of course). They WILL sell more machines because of this, just watch. Also, you people who claim this IS a surrender, stop blowing hot air and put your money where your mouth is and short the stock… what’s that? You don’t want to risk it? I thought not…

By Chuck

April 6, 2006 4:16 PM | Link to this

For Bob in SF…..You mention Jobs should have licensed the Mac OS 15-20 years ago which would have stopped the MS juggernaut…well, Steve was forced out of Apple 21 years ago and returned to Apple 10 years ago. Not much he could do about licensing the OS when he was busing with Pixar.

By Michael

April 6, 2006 4:35 PM | Link to this

Since I saw a couple of people (including Geekboy) throw the money issue into the discussion, here’s the deal:

You get what you pay for

I switched to a Mac (mini) this year after being a PC dittohead forever. No more anti-virus software. No more blue screen of death. No more Microsoft web site (might as well be needleinahaystack.com). The Mac just works. No need to reboot for every piece of software installed. No screw-ups with putting the computer to sleep. Not to mention no more c:\this\makes\findingstuff\extremelyfun.not. The only problem I have had not related to beta software is a DVD not ejecting…because I was using a Microsoft keyboard. I got an Apple Bluetooth Wireless keyboard and fixed that problem. Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.

Just remember that more people buy a Big Mac daily than Prime Rib. Prime Rib is also more expensive. Does that make the Big Mac better because it’s more popular and cheaper?

(I say all of this as a Microsoft share holder)

By Joe

April 6, 2006 4:57 PM | Link to this

Why compare different operating systems as though oranges can be superior to bananas?

If you’re in the market for office or gaming applications, go with a Windows machine. Having said that, Microsoft should be concerned that the most-often used features of office applications are beginning to be widely accessible through open-source, platform-independent software. The rest of the features are increasingly automated through web-based applications.

If you’re in the market for multimedia applications, go with a Mac. Through the iLife suite (I’m surpsied no one has mentioned this remarkable package), an average computer user can create home video DVDs, and other neat things.

As the world of software continues to develop, Microsoft’s strengths will become irrelevant simply because those “office” tasks can be accomplished more cost-efficiently through platform-independent applications. That’s the bottom line for business. Microsoft will remain the market leader simply because they’ve been the market leader, but that will become a position of weakness.

By Dick Washington

April 6, 2006 5:34 PM | Link to this

I still say to get my Mac compatable with Windows XP I’d have to take it out back and beat it with a Louisville slugger.

To have the best of both worlds is important to many people. To have German engeneering in their BMW or VW is the same as having their vehicle function in either format.

The only advantage of Virtual PC is that you can have both systems up at the same time and you can copy and past to either system.

It all started with the iMac for people to switch to the easiest AND most powerful operating system in the world. And on through the iPod…..

Steven Jobs is the iBorg of the future… “You will be assumilated” but only because you have the choice for something better…

The Mac.

Does the small “i” now mean Intel inside?

By Nickie

April 7, 2006 9:53 AM | Link to this

This is from a 60+ grandmother. I am not a geek. I am not a teckie. I have used Macs for years. My current one is 5 years old and runs faster than my husband’s new PC laptop. I can do anything short of tap dancing on the keyboard and it continues to work. My friends all complain about “fatal errors” and having to restart their PCs all the time because it crashes. This lady will stick to Macs.

By G

April 7, 2006 12:36 PM | Link to this

The PC freeware that I’ve used over the years is mostly mediocre. Same for the Mac. If you want quality low-cost software, you need to go shareware, which means you pay. Not as much as with commercialware, but you still pay. That goes for FTP clients, too. The free ones have bad user interfaces, or are vehicles for spyware (not so much now), or are mediocre performers. For low cost, there are plenty of good ones out there, including for Mac. IRC? Plenty of good clients out there for both platforms if you quit making assumptions and look.

Most major productivity programs have both Mac and PC versions, most are interoperable, and often the Mac versions offer a cleaner user interface. It’s interesting that many of the new tweaks and features in Word have been tested in the Mac versions before appearing in the Windows versions for the last 5-6 years.

Calling software available for Macs “pathetic” is nothing but ignorance. There’s lots of excellent software for both platforms, and by Sturgeon’s Law, lots of junk. You look for what works and what you can actually use and ignore the rest.

If you want to play games, buy toys. If that toy happens to be a high-powered computer, by all means, use it. The early tests for Windows games on the Macs, by the way, have been extremely positive and comparable with PCs in equal or higher price ranges.

Apple is by no means “surrendering”. It’s offering its users more options than its competitors do. It’s pretty unlikely that Macs using Windows will boot XP more than they absolutely need to, but they can if they need to. It doesn’t work the other way. I own both and have used both for 15 years. I’ve run labs and servers, set up networks, and used all sorts of software. I choose to use Macs most of the time, XP when I need it.

By Dan

April 7, 2006 2:44 PM | Link to this

Apple has repeatedly bungled it’s position. The computer industry is basically two fold software and hardware. The hardware is virtually a commodity and there is little to no difference from vendor to vendor. Software is the real differentiator and that is Apples allure , or so I am told, I know a number of IT pros who love apple. What has stifled their growth is their unwillingness to separate the 2 components. What apple should do is let other companies like Dell HP etc manufacture the hardware to carry their OS its the only way they can compete on price then maybe their superior software will take hold and gain market share. They have just done the opposite and essentially made themselves a hardware manufacturer, and they have proven time and again that is their weak spot. If you have apple stock SELL