Get Schooled

By TheBlogger

December 16, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

The republicans, and primarily Sonny, have raped Georgia’s school system. Promises were made to improve our schools and all they did was take away money already in the State budget. This has been done for years - schools operating at below budget - and this includes the “good” economic times when GA had surplus money.

Now that the economy is “bad”, of course they want to reduce education dollars even more.

For those of you that have the opinion that GA public schools are horrible, YOU should be the most upset. This is money collected from you for the purpose of education and yet this money was diverted for other uses by the republicans and Sonny.

Why do the citizens of GA allow this?

By Ernest

December 16, 2008 10:59 AM | Link to this

Noble campaign by DPS but at the end of the day, unless the citizens of the state agree to tax increases to better fund our educational systems, we will see see more cuts in services and eventually employees. What many don’t understand is that Perdue asked school systems to cut the budgets AFTER the budget for the year had been passed. There are rumors that he may ask for another 1-2 percent cut before the fiscal year ends on June 30. Many school systems have dipped into their reserves and some may compromise their ability to meet payroll in the summer months. We are in for some tough times and I’m not sure enough citizens realize what is going on and the impact it can have on our school systems.

By TheBlogger

December 16, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

Ernest I think that you missed the point here. No one is asking for any INCREASE in taxes paid. We only need to DEMAND that the taxes already collected go to where they are supposed to go to and not diverted as Sonny and the republicans have done.

IMHO this has nothing to do with “tough times” or even the economy. It has everything to do with politics and where collected tax money goes.

Yes, school systems are having a horrible time dealing with lack of money - but this is ONLY because the State has not delivered the taxes collected for education to them! The State (read Sonny and republicans) divert that money to their pet projects rather than to the schools as it should be.

This is simply not right and should be illegal. But, the citizens of GA seem to really not care about the quality of education after all is said and done….. otherwise we would be in a picket line around the State capital every day (and we would stop voting republican). Maybe we are the cliche’ “dumb Southerners” after all!

By decaturparent

December 16, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

The state legislature is blind to the fact that businesses will not relocate here if the educational system is in a shambles b/c: 1) they cannot get employees who have the skills they need in a state where eductation is not valued; and 2) they cannot attract decent employees to GA b/c no parent in their right mind would move to Georgia when it is so obvious that education is last priority…. below even fishing.

And we wonder why we have lost jobs here.

We all need to picket when the legislature starts its session in January. Folks outside the metro area need to demand a decent education for their children. Folks with kids in private school or without kids need to wake up and realize that a poor educational system means that Georgia is unattractive to business …. and that means fewer jobs and less tax money to fund fishing and whatnot. They also need to think about who they want their neighbors, coworkers and employees to be. Do they want to be surrounded by uneducated people?

Well, maybe they do want to be surrounded by uneducated people… they certainly do like to elect them to state office!

By happy2teach

December 16, 2008 12:27 PM | Link to this

Lack of money is not the problem in education. There is plenty to go around, it is just mismanaged. The number one thing we need to do is hire and retain more high-quality teachers and we can do this if we would do a better job of managing what resources we have.

By GS

December 16, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

And so continues Georgia’s long tradition of shortchanging education.

At least Sonny’s GoFish program remains strong. There needs to be plenty of jobs at bait shops for all the undereducated public school grads.

By spaldingparent

December 16, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

It’s not just the metro area schools either. It’s the entire public school system across the state of Georgia. I was talking to a group of older people a few days ago and they were shocked to learn that our elementary school does not have an art teacher or a music teacher. These were removed years ago because of funding shortages. If a large percentage of the students don’t qualify for free lunches then they can only have two “specials” classes: ie they muct choose one other program teacher because they are mandated to use one of the two for PE. So then the school must make the decision of one more. Should it be computer lab, music class, art class, foreign language? But they can only have one. However if most of the school’s students qualify for free lunch they can have it all!!!! How is that fair? ALL SCHOOLS should get these programs and the funding for giving our children a quality education. Many other countries teach 2 & 3 other languages to their elementary age children because they understand they pick it up easier when they are younger. They also provide music and art because they understand it helps elevate math and reading scores. Yes, children who take art classes and music classes excel in other areas. It’s been proven through scientific studies many times over. The citizens of Georgia need to wake up and realize that we as a state are failing all of our children. We need to demand better education for them and that means an over haul of the public education system and funding for the changes.

By Mike D

December 16, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

Look people, your kids arn’t going to amount to anything anyway. Unless you put your kid in a private school, you can really only expect them to be ditch diggers and check out clerks. So who cares what the state pays for k-12 daycare get used to less.

By RealityKing

December 16, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

Education funding has almost doubled over the last 7 years, right along with home prices. Of course grades didn’t rise much, in fact, 40% of Georgia’s students didn’t even make graduation last year. And guess what…, money had nothing to do with it.

By gwatl

December 16, 2008 12:52 PM | Link to this

A short review of the recent past years would suggest that it really doesn’t matter what resources you put behind public education in Georgia — WE SEE LITTLE IMPROVEMENT! More recently, it has been suggested by this publication that we could have a problem with performance testing in DeKalb County.

Think that Scott Rasmussen may have a big point! [http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publiccontent/politics/issues2/articles/mostvoterssayteachersunionsmorefocusedonjobsthan_education]

By RealityKing

December 16, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Besides.., Obama’s idea of socialistic job creation is to build roads…, and you don’t need a high dollar education to work a shovel.

By demwit

December 16, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Obama says we should be using Chicago’s Public School Syetem as our model.

By Blaine

December 16, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Not all education is being cut. For example, the School of Dentistry at the Medical College of GA is slated to receive roughly $70 million bucks from the state because the school found a way to convince the state that the School of Dentistry cannot compete without a brand-new shiny facility and of course there is an absolutely extreme shortage of dentists…..seriously, have you ever had a hard time finding a dentist?

Oh yeah…..although the dental students are required to be residents of GA, they are NOT required to remain in GA after they attend those brand-new facilities!

Who knows how many similar projects are being funded at the expense of our children?

By RealityKing

December 16, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Our public school system is a complete failure. It should be shut down to ensure Georgia’s children get proper instruction through private education. It would be hard to do worse…, and only morons continually throw good money after bad.

By Jeffrow

December 16, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Ah don’t see any needs for more edyucayshin money - book learnin is jest so over rated anyways and like ah told my sons there ain’t no need for gettin past 5th grade cuz it wont’ get you any more anyhows and you might just as well start to workin earlier in life so’s you kin get to relaxin earlier too. A shiner with a 5th grade edyukayshin makes jest as good a moonshine as one of them Printston gradyuates.

By Mr. Elder

December 16, 2008 1:12 PM | Link to this

Public education is what seperates our country from the third world countries that we read about everyday. Teachers are expected to work with students everyday who may or may not get the support they need at home and it is a shame that the state fails to support its schools when schools are constantly bombarded with curriculum changes and teacher training expectations that are expensive. This state and country as a whole will continue to lose ground in the global economy if we do not invest in our school.

By Chicagowtf

December 16, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

If what Demwit says is true, Lord help us all. It’s going to be a long four years.

By Texas Pete

December 16, 2008 1:26 PM | Link to this

My company is always looking for under educated girls that would like to get into the modeling, dancing, and film industry. We pay a great salary and have excellent bennefits, but we require a lot of originality and count on producing many first ever moments. So if you know of any 18-20 year old girls that would like to be stars, send them to me.

By Bob

December 16, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

You CAN still get a GREAT education in Georgia public schools. It takes parental involvement to make sure the students work to the best of their ability and stay out of gangs and other distractions.

Taxes are high enough, but money goes to which ever group screams the loudest. Education, health care, better roads, MARTA, etc.

By JRB

December 16, 2008 2:05 PM | Link to this

The Dental School probably got donations for a lot of the project. We need to spend some money on our School of Pharmacy and other state health institutions of higher learning. With an aging population, the current shortages of doctors and other health care providers is only going to get worse.

Also, while $70 million IS a lot of money. Each new high school in the state probably costs from 50 to 80 million. But local school systems, through Splosh money or otherwise, pay the bulk of these bills… not the state.

By V for Vendetta

December 16, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

I’m not pointing any fingers here because I am just as guilty of this as anyone else: However, in my opinion, this seems to be yet another blog full of a bunch of complaining about education from people who will do nothing to step up and change it. Maybe we should use a forum such as this to unify and move forward in our goals. We don’t always agree, but, as many have said, we would be hard-pressed to do much worse.

What’dya say, Laura? Can we have a blog dedicated to the overthrowing of our state and local leaders? I suggest one for each metro county. Promote it among friends and neighbors. Only with stregth of numbers will we be able to crack the stranglehold the tyrants have on education in this state.

By Jeffrow

December 16, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

Teaxs Pete - thanks for proving my point. I see theres’ oppertunitys fer girls who didnt’ care much for schoolin too. Sounds like yer lookin fer someone like my niece. Her names’ Rebecca Louise but we call her Sprout since she sprouted so young compared to rest of her class. I’ll send her yer way.

By Lynn-43

December 16, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

To the writers who push private schools, please tell me what makes them better. O.K. They can pick and choose their students so that only wealthy and parent involved students will attend and take their test. If we only tested the top 10% of our students, I’m sure the public schools would outscore the private schools. Incidently, all the high schools in my county scored above the national average on the SAT which is what is so important to many of you and how you gage the reputations of schools.

If Ben and Jerry’s only had sour milk, rotten eggs, and no flavoring, even they could not make eatable ice cream. We take what we are sent and teach all the students no matter their backgrounds.

By Educator

December 16, 2008 2:15 PM | Link to this

Public schools will always get a bad grade when compared with private schools. Private schools are much like colleges who are able to deny entry into those schools if the child does not meet certain criteria.

Public schools must accept and try to educate EVERY student who enters our building. No matter what people think or legislate, we will never obtain a time when 100 percent of our students are “meeting expectations.”

There is nothing wrong with our public school teachers. They work extremely hard. They just can’t pick the students that they are to educate.

By VOICE

December 16, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Is anyone listening to V for Vendetta? This is one of those rare times that I agree with him (her). STOP COMPLAINING AND ACT! Use this forum to unite.

One step could be to go to a 4 day school week. This would effectively cuts @1/5 of the costs in specific areas. Several districts have done so already and others are following their lead. We can no longer afford to be “glorified daycare”. Also, cut back on all the training conferences, workshops, and seminars which require subs to be paid. And, maybe the administrators will be in the buildings to actually manage the schools.

V, you have a GREAT idea! So, Laura, what do you say???

By Joy in Teaching

December 16, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

If you ask just about any teacher how to fix the problems in Georgia schools, most of them will say:

1) Stop social promotion. Do not promote them with the rest of their class because it will hurt their self esteem if you don’t do it. Only promote students who have mastered the ability to read, write, and do the math that is appropriate to that grade level. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. Teachers in the upper grades are expected to work miracles with students who can’t even read on a third grade level or basic multiplication problems, but are expected to teach them algebra.

2) Allow schools to actually discipline students instead of having to pacify parents and the NCLB gods out there who deem a school to be dangerous if there are too many level 2 and 3 discipline issues. Yesterday, we had a young man (14 years old) decide that it would be a good idea to deficate in the sink of one of our restrooms. That same young man has already been in ISS and OSS several times already this year because he is a troublemaker. While there are rumors that he might finally get expelled for this latest stunt, I’m not holding my breath over it.

Guess what? The first suggestion WILL cost money initially because elementary schools will have to hire additional teachers to help kids get caught up. But better there than in the ninth grade where they sit until they are 16.

By Lioness30096

December 16, 2008 3:07 PM | Link to this

@TheBlogger: I agree with everything you typed. But how can you expect people who probably never stepped foot inside a public school until they were elected officials to understand what it is our kids need? This is not a jab to private/boarding schools, either, but most of the folks who are in these positions of high power and making the decisions for our kids were never in public school systems themselves. And they certainly don’t send their own kids to public school. Suffice it to say they simply could care less.

@Ernest: Everytime I get my property tax bill I am contributing to the school systems (at least here in Gwinnett) I will NOT pay anything extra when I am already paying up. What NEEDS to happen is the-powers-that-be should be making a more concerted effort to ensure that the money they claim is for schools goes to the schools, and not some pork barrel project they’ve got going on.

By Pot Stirrer

December 16, 2008 3:09 PM | Link to this

Can we just cut to the chase? It’s a race issue. Private schools are just a way to allow segregation to continue to live on here.

With far too few exceptions - and not including the far flung suburbs - public schools are considered our “black” schools, and private schools are for the white folks.

How else can you explain why so many middle-class families - families often struggling to make ends meet - accepting a failing public school system as status quo and choosing to send their children to private schools instead?

By jim d

December 16, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

V,

Gotta love it!! Treason by blog—what a hell of an idea!!

By jim d

December 16, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

SAVE OUR SCHOOLS??

TOO LATE!!

Education Secretary Arne Duncan

By Voice of Reason

December 16, 2008 4:20 PM | Link to this

Reality King: Education funding has almost doubled over the last 7 years, right along with home prices. Of course grades didn’t rise much, in fact, 40% of Georgia’s students didn’t even make graduation last year. And guess what…, money had nothing to do with it.

Where are you getting this info? Georgia’s graduation rate has risen from 62% in 2003 to the current rate of 75.4% . Check the stats.

By Perplexed (Quintavious)

December 16, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

When hObama is sworn in, everything will be OK. Free gasoline. No more mortgage payments. All the children will be above average. Everyone will graduate from high school. Free college. $200K minimum wage.

Everything will be goot.

By bizezgrrrl

December 16, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

LOL, Perplexed! Thank goodness for that, b/c after 8 years of Bush, everyone is BROKE!

By gwatl

December 16, 2008 5:25 PM | Link to this

* Agree with ‘Joy in Teaching’!!!* Now, what erstwhile elected official has the backbone to do what is right for the kids and their future?? So disappointed in those who have been elected on education reform platforms when they are totally incapable of doing anything of meaning and success!!

By Tony

December 16, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

Sometimes I think this blog is entirely hopeless. People spew their unsupported remarks and opinions with no real intent of pitching in to help make our schools the best in the nation. The mantra is “Cut Taxes. Cut Spending. Privatize.”

The bottom line is this. Unless we invest in time, energy, and care for our children, there is no hope for their future. Many people get on this blog and pontificate about how they think things would be better if things were done their way. Unfortunately, the every man for himself approach will not bring about the needed support for this or future generations of children.

It may very well be possible for us to provide even better education for our children without more money. When parents, teachers, school leaders, and communities truly support student learning amazing things will happen. Unfortunately in Georgia, we are more worried about the Friday night score than we are about the SAT scores. We are so rapt up in ourselves that we hardly take the time to support our own kids much less the public at large. (Pitching in to help others, by the way, is not socialism. It is a teaching of Jesus. “Unto the least of these…”) Greed and selfish interests have brought about much of the economic crisis we are currently facing.

Last, but not least, how can we continue to use the argument that businesses will not locate here unless we improve education? After all, most of the industrial shut downs are due to the relocation to Mexico. Do they have better educated citizens than we do? Hardly.

By Tony

December 16, 2008 6:10 PM | Link to this

Reality King - school enrollment has also skyrocketed. It costs more to educate more children. And, yes, the graduation rate is increasing. I’m afraid you’re the one who needs a “reality check”.

By catlady

December 16, 2008 6:37 PM | Link to this

Thank you, Tony. I love it when folks say that plant closings and lack of new employers is because Georgia schools are so inferior, yet the companies are packing up and going to places where the LABOR IS THE CHEAPEST.

It is all about greed. It is all about looking out for number one. Let’s sing the chorus, “Me, ME, MEEE…” Whatever happened to collective responsibility? To patriotism?

I want today’s kids to have the best education because I want to retire and know they will be able to work and support me. Haha.

Teachers cannot do it by themselves, however. I think educators and parents need to start holding politicians accountable for funding a fishing center but continuing to cut off the oxygen to the schools (“Austerity cuts” during boom times, for example). Or worrying about ball field lights and not about books. 90% of the teachers I know are doing the work of more than one person. We need the same committment from all the stakeholders, excluding no one. Educators, particularly in positions of power, badly need to get real and use money very wisely. It must be in ways that directly impact student learning. Less chiefs, more indians.

I worry about folks fleeing to the private schools. Most of these folks are JUST THE PEOPLE we need in the public schools who will write and show up and raise h3ll to demand improvement. Once they opt out, we all lose. I understand,however, the urge to not let your child suffer a subpar education. Parental apathy, however, lets this happen. 1000 mad as h3ll middle class parents showing up at school board meetings could get a lot done. 5000 showing up at the state DOE could get someone’s attention. And even on the federal level, parents can get changes made (see the sp ed parental lobby, for example).

One thing that I have learned from this blog is how sadly out of touch with reality many non-educators are. They think school is like it was in their day. If half the respondents on this blog would spend a few days in their local schools instead of pontificating about it without up to date experience, eyes would be opened. Every single parent that I have convinced to come in and spend a typical day left with an incredibly changed attitude. If you pay property taxes (which is every living person), you need to check on your investment in person.

By Dr.B

December 16, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

I think if teachers are so bad in Georgia. Maybe it is because most of them were educated in Georgia. Just a thought.

By Lee

December 16, 2008 7:31 PM | Link to this

Let me get this straight….

Dekalb is bemoaning the lack of funding for public schools —— but has enough money to pay for some central office wieners to promulgate a “Save our schools” publicity campaign.

Cat, you want 1000 mad-as-hell parents at a board meeting, let the Principal padlock the gates to the football and baseball fields. When I see a principal do that and say “I have no more money to pay an “In school suspension teacher” $90k+ per year just to coach football, I might sit up and take notice.

Until then, I’ll continue to pay out the nose for private school tuition and know that my daughter is getting a much better education than if she were at OUR local school.

By Lee

December 16, 2008 7:36 PM | Link to this

*”I worry about folks fleeing to the private schools. Most of these folks are JUST THE PEOPLE we need in the public schools who will write and show up and raise h3ll to demand improvement.”

Cat, we did just that for over a year. Finally figured out that the system does not WANT to change and that a year of lost instruction is a year that you can’t get back.

Hind sight is 20/20. If I had to do it over again, neither of my children would have ever set foot in OUR town’s middle school - AKA the Black Hole of Education.

By bizezgrrrl

December 16, 2008 8:01 PM | Link to this

Hi Lee - any chance you were part of the 18 or so families who gave Avondale Elementary a shot last year and reached the same conclusion?

Don’t lose heart! Charter schools may be the best hope for the future of public schools in Georgia. At a minimum, they provide a better option - and more control - for families who attend. But more than that,they may provide incentive for the administrators of our “official” public schools to open their eyes and get off their collective backsides and get to work.

We can’t abandon the concept of public education. It’s simply unpatriotic!! Excellent public education is an important part of what once made our country great.

By Jim

December 16, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

Must chime in with an “I told you so.” When my teaching colleagues were all hating on Roy Barnes six years ago over his education reforms and turning to Sonny, I said, “Beware. With that crowd in charge you’ll have to deal with same mandates from the state but have fewer resources to fulfill them with.”

Did I call it or what? Is the restoration of tenure making it easier to get through days of more kids, more tests, more paperwork?

By themommy

December 16, 2008 8:13 PM | Link to this

Lee

It isn’t DeKalb organizing this effort but the City of Decatur. I can almost guarantee that DeKalb won’t participate — don’t want parents and taxpayers looking to closely at how their funds are spent.

Here is a great new blog on DeKalb county schools. JOin us everyone… https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=151096942903989101&postID=5544589301055586283

By Jim

December 16, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

Oh, I forgot the $100 back to school bribe card (which my principal dutifully said came from Sonny Purdue, not from the taxpayers of Georgia). Thanks, Sonny! Those new whiteboard markers made it a lot easier for my 32 students to see what I was writing on the board.

By Fault

December 16, 2008 9:07 PM | Link to this

In Decatur and DeKalb county the collapse and ruin of the public school system which includes teaching to the “lowest common denominator” came when public elementary and middle schools in particular stopped serving only the neighborhood children in which they are located and began busing. There is a reason people move and live where they do — to be in an area where neighbors of similar demographics, education, standard of living live. PC ruined the public school sytem.

I’m just glad we can afford to send our children to private school!!!!!

By sav teach

December 16, 2008 9:08 PM | Link to this

As a teacher who actually works with the students, they know that they are considered second class citizens. They know that they get the last of everything, that their schools are underfunded, and they don’t have any supplies. None of them want to be a teacher because they know how low our salaries are, and most of them think that we couldn’t make it in the real world, which is why we teach. Segregation laws were overturned because some smart lawyers proved that black children were made to feel inferior by the separation of the races. Today we have a situation where public school children are made to feel inferior to their private school counterparts because of a lack of funding. So it is not surprising that the children know better than the adults. If you have a child at home, go ask them if they want to be a teacher when they grow up, and ask them why not. You won’t be surprised.

By Difference

December 16, 2008 9:11 PM | Link to this

Many differences and advantages of private over public school. Public has great honors programs; however, the honors student still has to be in the common hallways, lunch area etc. where the “thugs” dwell!!!!!

By Reality

December 16, 2008 9:15 PM | Link to this

sav teach at 9:08pm — “None of them want to be a teacher because they know how low our salaries are,”.

Give us a break - adjust your salary to 12 months or the rest of ours to 9 months then tell us how low your salaries are in comparison!!!!!

By kiwano

December 16, 2008 9:17 PM | Link to this

What I do not see here is any admission as to the quiet 800 pound gorilla in the room. There is a long tradition in Georgia after desegregtion of not caring about our public schools because of a tacitly understood mantra—-the deserving people go to private schools and to h* with the rest of them. Until that mindset is changed, we will get absolutely no where. Public school education and the great opportunities it provides for fostering positive relations and education in a diverse setting must become a priority over bass fishing and dove shooting. Public education needs to be elevated in the minds of our legislators to something other than a refuge for the undeserving or those unable to afford private school.

By Disaster

December 16, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

How much money per student does Decatur and DeKalb spend? And the result…thought so!!!!

The school system and Boards are for the most part managed by incompetence!!!!

By reality check

December 16, 2008 9:59 PM | Link to this

Reality, adjust what? Teachers are on a 10 month contract, not 9. And I’ll gladly adjust my salary to the salary of someone with a Master’s in Science and 12 years experience like me…now where’s my damn money? You really are rather clueless. Typical for someone who comes on the blogs and just talks out of their anus.

By irishdude

December 16, 2008 10:01 PM | Link to this

Here’s an idea. Since the HOPE program started we have spent almost a billion with a b dollars on our Pre-k program’s with no corresponding increase in test scores— graduation rates etc. WHY?? Well the dirty little secret is that many of the “private” ” accredited” pre k programs —and there are thousands of them -are no more that government sponsored day care. What do they need to get accredited ? Truth is almost nothing and no checkback to make sure they are doing what they are paid to do. After all who will complain when they are getting FREE daycare. Now imagine if that money went to real instruction in schools. Never going to happen now, with all the daycare people lobbying if a change is proposed. By the way do you realize that federal funding -Title money is what it is called, has more than doubled to schools in the last ten years! Where did it go? Check out how many administrators, and “consultants” —actually retired school system employees drawing another check —are employed by your school system. As an example there are over a hundred admin people (each with a staff) in Clayton County alone —-and thats had a terrific return on the dollar hasn’t it!

By Einstein

December 16, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

1Require a parent to spend one full day at school in each level -ES -MS and HS in order for the kid to move on. Watch how the little monsters straighten up.

By pot stirrer

December 16, 2008 10:51 PM | Link to this

Kiwano, you are absolutely correct about the 800 pound gorilla. I brought it up in a post before dinner, but no one responded.

Until white middle and upper-middle class homeowners stop their irrational fear of african americans and start sending their kids to public schools, our educational system will continue to fail. Period.

Let me clarify my comments to recognized there are many, many dedicated, caring African American parents deeply engaged in their children’s schools. We just a more diverse demographic represented in the mix to succeed.

Our situation REEKS of not-so-subtle segregation … is it just a coincidence that so many failing schools are in the South?

It’s the ugly, uncomfortable truth no one wants to openly discuss or confront. How do you change a mindset that goes back hundreds of years? It is shameful.

By jim d

December 17, 2008 7:23 AM | Link to this

Einstein,

Not to be disagreeable but we must actually look at the numbers before assuming private = white.

Actually recent trends have produced a considerable increase in minority students attending private schools.

Personally I don’t believe playing the race card here helps your argument since race has nothing to do with caring parents willing to make the sacrifice to assure their childrens academic success.

By potstirrer

December 17, 2008 7:47 AM | Link to this

With very few exceptions, Private = White in my area (intown Atlanta). Our public school is 92% african american and 96% school lunch program. I would say the private schools I’ve considered for my child flips that ratio with 90% being white.

It’s not just a race issue. The population in our public schools is often extremely transient, since many students are in rented apartments or homes and move around a bit as their parent/parents/grandparents change jobs. The constant turnover is a challenge. Schools need permanent residents - homeowners - sending their children to lend stability to the population.

By Da Mick

December 17, 2008 7:54 AM | Link to this

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By jim d

December 17, 2008 7:57 AM | Link to this

Einstein,

Here’s a few things from an article in MI you might consider before playing that card again.

Fact: According to a national sample of public and private school 12th graders collected by the U.S. Department of Education, public school classrooms are more apt to be almost entirely white or almost entirely minority. More than half of all public school 12th graders (55 percent) are in classes that have more than 90 percent or fewer than 10 percent minority students. In private schools, just 41 percent of students are in similarly segregated classrooms. And private school students are markedly more likely to be in classes that come close to resembling the nation’s demographics. More than a third (37 percent) of private school students are in classes whose racial composition is within 10 percent of the national average. Just 18 percent of public school students are in classes that are similarly mixed.

Fact:Public schools are hampered in their ability to reduce segregation by the fact that most of their students are assigned to schools based on where they live. Public schools tend to reproduce and reinforce racial segregation in housing. Private schools, on the other hand, can and typically do draw students from across political and neighborhood boundaries to gather a more racially mixed student body. While it is true that public school systems have a higher proportion of minority students than do private schools, the distribution of minorities within the public and private sectors clearly shows that, by detaching schooling from residences, individual private schools are more likely to be integrated schools.

A few more Facts: A study of seating patterns at lunchroom tables confirms these survey findings that integration in private school classrooms leads to greater cross-racial friendship.

Private schools’ students are almost twice as likely to sit in racially mixed groups in the lunchroom as are public school students.

Private schools’ students are almost twice as likely to sit in racially mixed groups in the lunchroom as are public school students. The evidence, in short, indicates that private schools not only produce more racial mixing but also greater racial tolerance and harmony. That’s today. What would happen tomorrow if choice expanded the number of private school students

Conclusion: The evidence is clear that private schools are able to offer better racial integration because they are able to transcend the segregation in housing. School choice offers the potential of expanding this integration by allowing people to associate in schools without regard to where they live or how much money they have.

By jim d

December 17, 2008 8:23 AM | Link to this

Pots,

Just imagine how drastically those numbers in Atlanta would change if people were allowed choice and the money followed the student.

I know I tend to grind this ax a lot and that many bloggers here tire of reading it but this is just another reason why we need a national policy allowing School Choice.

By b

December 17, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

I just read this blog and have to contribute my thoughts. Our oldest is now a sophomore in a Georgia state college. She went to a great high school, one of the best in Georgia, has HOPE and is doing well. We are concerned about the increase in costs-like the “spur of the moment” increase in fees. What will be next? Luckily we can cover for her, but what about those students whose parents can’t? Getting more money for the governor’s projects from college students and their parents is not the way to go.

With that said, our youngest suffered through the same elementary school but we finally had to move to a private school. It was not the teachers’ fault we moved, but rather the “system” that could not help. Learning disabilities that are not that bad, have required that we go to a school that has a multi-modal method of teaching in some of the classrooms. In researching both middle and now high schools that offer this, we were surprised at the number of private schools that have introduced these classrooms into their schools. Public school in Georgia has not! We have looked at other states and are amazed at what some other places have for students who don’t learn in the “traditional” way. Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Wisconsin, Michigan; the list goes on.

When moving here, people are going to ask about education. We would tell them, pick a suburban area where test scores are high, parental involvement is intense, and talk with the guidance counselors at prospective schools about college acceptances and their curriculums. Although a school may seem great, when compared with your current school, your child may be far ahead, especially if you are moving from a school district from the above mentioned states.

I sincerely hope that once the administration changes in Georgia, that schools here will be a priority.

By pot stirrer

December 17, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

Jim D - The MI article is interesting. Is there a breakdown own the minorities represented in the private schools they cite. Certainly, there is a relatively large population of both Asian and Indian families in many private schools we’ve looked at.

I’d also be interested in the diversity in economics. Anything that you can share would be appreciated.

By Rick

December 17, 2008 8:41 AM | Link to this

There are three problems with school choice. First, what would happen if all of the students who attended poor schools wanted to go the better schools which are in short supply. Second, many of the students from economically poor areas may not be recieved so well at mostly white high-performing schools. Would most of the teachers and administators, at the top performing schools, really want “all students” in their classes? Third: White Flight

Education in this nation has been built on segregration. Today it is mostly about money. The haves go to good schools and those with less go to schools that should not exist in this, the most prosperous nation on earth.

By Rick

December 17, 2008 8:47 AM | Link to this

The comments about intergrated private schools sounds nice. But, most private schools in GA do not reflect the percent of minority population, not even close. Also, if the majority of minority students, hundreds of thousands, decide to attend private schools, then white flight will really kick in. Certain students will have still have a much better chance of getting in a school like GAC. Besides, where will all of the thousands of teachers for the new private schools come from: Government schools.

By TheBlogger

December 17, 2008 8:50 AM | Link to this

jim d GROAN! Do you have saved a paragraph that you just cut and paste into this blog regarding your stance on “choice?” You seem to repeat the same thing over and over again regardless of the topic.

By rick

December 17, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Reply to Pot stirrer,

A higher percentage of the Asians in private school in the Atlanta area are from South Korea and Japan and not from Vietnam. Immigrants from weathier nations tend to have more advantages than those from poorer nations.

By pot stirrer

December 17, 2008 8:52 AM | Link to this

I must say, it will be interesting to see what impact a continued recession will have on both public and private schools.

I have neighbors with kids in private school now researching other options - charter schools, public schools and home schooling - in the event of job loss. Some have been trying to sell their homes for months in an effort to relocate to a better public school district, but they haven’t gotten a nibble.

I don’t know how parents with three and more children in private school do it. It seems foolish to rack up debt and neglect longterm (and college) savings to send children to private schools that are mediocre at best.

By pot stirrer

December 17, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

Hi Rick - I was specifically asking Jim for a minority diversity breakdown in the article he posted from Manhattan Institute.

If we dig a little deeper, I would guess we’d find the ethnic make-up of the minority population in public schools was very different from that of the minority population in private schools.

By Rick

December 17, 2008 9:09 AM | Link to this

Reply to reality:

Do the rest of us have masters and PHDs? Most teachers have advanced degrees.

By dawgs24/7

December 17, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

How about doing away with special ed in public schools? For every dollar that is spent on the “average” kids 5 dollars is spent on the “special” kids. Why spend 5 times the amount on people who will be working the McDonald’s drive through instead of on the kids who actually have a chance to accomplish something with their lives.

By chuck

December 17, 2008 9:25 AM | Link to this

Of course, nobody really listens to TEACHERS, but we could save hundreds of millions of dollars through consolidation of school districts. For instance, Chattahoochee County has about 12-13 hundred students in one school that is split into elementary, middle and high school. They pay a superintendent, and TWO assistant superintendents and 3 principals and 2 assistant principals for fewer students than ONE Atlanta High School. Why couldn’t that system be absorbed by Muscogee County which has about 50 schools and 35,000 students. Would one more school really make that much difference? You could also add in Harris County and Talbot County which combined have about 8 schools.

Look at Bibb County and its surrounding counties. Why not move Jones County and its 8 schools, Twiggs County and its 3 schools, and Monroe County and its 3 schools into the Bibb County system which has 40 or so schools and 30k students?

That would eliminate at least 20-30 administrators in just those 2 examples. At the same time it would eliminate countless duplications of services and programs that also have administrators. No county would have to lose any schools but the administration duties would be handled in one central location. You could do the same thing by grouping counties all across Georgia.

To accomplish this, the state could give each district this option, “We will fund the schools in your county at the current level. We will NOT FUND central office staff for ANY DISTRICT or combination of districts with less than 30,000 students and 30 schools.”

“If you want to keep your own superintendent and central office, you will have to pay for them yourselves.”

The legislature could pass enabling legislation this year and set the deadline for 3 years. Each smaller county would get seats on the “HOST” County’s School Board based proportionally on the number of students in each county. Students in one county could go to a school in another county if it was closer to their homes, thus saving transportation costs.

Certainly it would be painful to begin with but it would save HUNDREDS of millions of dollars statewide.

By pots

December 17, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Chuck - have the suggestions you describe been considered in any official capacity? They seem very sensible, which may ultimately lead to their dismissal ;), but let’s hope the powers that be are looking at all options.

By chuck

December 17, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

bizezgrrrl

You said:

Don’t lose heart! Charter schools may be the best hope for the future of public schools in Georgia. At a minimum, they provide a better option - and more control - for families who attend. But more than that,they may provide incentive for the administrators of our “official” public schools to open their eyes and get off their collective backsides and get to work.

No, they really aren’t. The one thing that we know improves test scores is SMALLER CLASS SIZES. Charter schools and their newest cousin the “Charter School District” are nothing more than veiled attempts to INCREASE CLASS SIZES beyond the legislature’s best decision ever on education…MANDATED class sizes.

Every school/system that has mentioned going to charter system has listed ‘flexibility on class sizes” as one of the reason for changing. I can guarantee you that if administrators of school districts have that “flexibility”, they will pack classes like sardines. As far as accountability goes, all that happens is that they lose charter status if they don’t meet goals. In the meantime (5 YEARS), they have all that money they saved by packing classes, that they can use for benefits, trips and perqs for the top dogs. Bad idea poorly executed.

By chuck

December 17, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

pots, these ideas came to me because my brother lives down in Chattahoochee County. He was telling me about their school district and it dawned on me how stupid it was to pay for a superintendent and TWO ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENTS plus 3 principals and 3 assistant principals for what amounts to 1 school.

In the school district where I teach we have schools with as many as 2000 students and others with 300 students. Same basic administrative costs. Makes no sense.

By jim d

December 17, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Pots,

Sorry don’t have the specifics, you might contact the author of the article for more specifics.

On the issue of Private = white inside of 285? Ms. Dodd did an article a few months ago about the changing face of private schools in the area that you might find of interest.

By Lee

December 17, 2008 10:17 AM | Link to this

I live outside of Georgia, so I’m always happy when Georgia cuts aid to schools. The rest of the nation needs more ignorant people to run our services, and Georgia produces far more of her share of dumb and ignorant louts for us. We can always depend upon Georgia for more unskilled and underpaid labor, recipients of the Georgia school system! That’s right Georgia, keep under-paying and saving all those them there taxes! We appreciate it! See how much money you can save to support our way of life.

Lee

By pots

December 17, 2008 10:34 AM | Link to this

Jim, I don’t know about you, but I’ve personally visited most of the private schools in my intown area (at least those in my price range - Pace and Westminster are not), and let me assure you, they are not diverse. You’re kidding yourself if you think they are.

By Ernest

December 17, 2008 10:37 AM | Link to this

Chuck, great ideas! That could also be expanded to consolidating several counties around the state also. Unfortunately I don’t think it will get much consideration because it will mean a loss of power for some.

By catlady

December 17, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Lee, I agree that most systems don’t want to change. And they won’t—ever—without loud, demanding middle class parents banging on the gates.

I understand your frustration. My kids were in two awful school situations while I was in grad school (Athens and Tallahassee). Also, as a employed, single mother and full time masters/doctoral student, I had little time or energy. But the school level administrators and central office staff KNEW Who I WAS pretty quickly. And I joined with other mad parents to address some of the thugism that was occurring without consequences.

We need people for whom their kids and their education are important. Teachers see what needs to be done but have very little power. I have seen what upset parents can do, on the other hand, in many situations. No board member likes to be on the 6 o’clock news.

By chuck

December 17, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Lee, based on what you wrote, you must live in Tuscaloosa. Had it come from anywhere else it would have shown some semblance of intelligence and common sense.

By DonA

December 17, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

This governor and legislature has pretty much been out to lunch on the public education funding situation. This however follows suit with the national GOP in not funding NCLB adequately.

We can be proud of the fact that “Go Fish” will be Sonny’s legacy.

By kitty

December 17, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

Have any of you ever looked at the top-heavy administration in your respective school districts. That could cut out a chunk with one swoop!

By Chris

December 17, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

I’m a teacher (my gosh I actually have a lunch break today - only ten minutes though) Next time you’re having lunch during the week remember that most teachers don’t get it - particularly in secondary schools where we aren’t guaranteed ‘duty-free’ lunch.

ANYWAY - now that I’m off that rant -

The best metaphor for this is baseball. Metro/suburban schools are like the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels. Rural schools in the southern part of the state are the Royals.

By chuck

December 17, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

Chris,

A mandate from ATL for everybody to be Gwinnett and do things the Gwinnett way doesn’t make sense for everybody else.

Amen brother.

ESPECIALLY since Gwinnett is about to go charter system and cut all of their teacher’s pay and increase their class sizes.

By Good Grief

December 17, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

Is Gwinnett the county of all counties for ATL metro schools or something?

By Decatur Mom

December 17, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

Before you start bashing Decatur City Schools and lumping them in with all other public schools, I suggest you do a little research first. Decatur has great schools and high achieving students. My daughter was in a private school and we had the option of continuing down that path or moving. We chose to move to Decatur, and pay much higher taxes, because of the schools and the quality of life we enjoy there.

My daughter walks to and from school; she can take foreign languages, art, play an instrument and participate in sports without me having to drive her all over the metro-Atlanta area. I totally support the city’s Save Our Schools effort.

The state has done a horrible disservice to education and if you want to see what our future looks like, check out Florida. The state has forced schools to cut funding and frozen property taxes that pay for schools. Now all the schools are failing to meet the federal No Child Left Behind standards. There’s no funding for school librarians, art, foreign languages, band or atheletic programs. Parents are having to sell roll after roll of wrapping paper to pay for their kids’ basic education. That’s where Georgia is headed under Governor Perdue.

By bizezgrrrl

December 17, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

DM - Decatur City Schools are AWESOME … I only wish we lived three miles to the WEST and we’d be there. Taxes are higher, but not as high as annual private school tuition.

Considering how far Decatur City Schools have come in the past 12-15 years, they should be the model for intown public school reform.

By bizezgrrrl

December 17, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

There’s an interesting little charter school over in Avondale Estates called The International Community School. It has received a good deal of national media coverage in such outlets as The New York Times, NPR, Georgia Trend, and others. This school year a reporter from The Christian Science Monitor is embedded in the school to cover the lives of a refugee family. I found her blog entry for today to be right on track with many of the things that have been discussed here.

I hope you will take a moment to read it. Anyone who cares at all about providing quality education for all will find it both touching and inspirational.

God bless all teachers and administrators who make a positive impact in the lives of Georgia’s children.

Here’s the link to the blog entry:

http://features.csmonitor.com/littlebillclinton/2008/12/17/how-ms-tahisha-overcame-racial-prejudice/#more-138

By FrustratedEducator

December 17, 2008 7:15 PM | Link to this

Some of you people are just amazing! Our public schools are indeed in need of improvement. That is why I left the private sector and became an educator. So instead of complaining, step up to the plate and come work in the public schools for even a week. Then let’s talk.

However, these are some of the things I have noticed in the public schools where I have worked:

1) In Georgia the money problem is indeed an issue. The austerity cuts have impacted schools across our state. They can no longer provide necessary training that local businesses need. “Modern” computers are just one of the things that cannot be afforded to train the students. However, the most significant ramification of the austerity cuts has been in the number of teachers. Just remember, small class size = more one to one instruction and higher achievement scores. Fewer teachers = a great teacher-student ratio and lower achievement.

2) We have district leaders that are top-down managers and do not believe in collaboration with, and leading, teachers. Teachers would love to have input on some of the ridiculous policies that are pressed upon them. Let the teachers havea voice, let them teach and maybe something will get done besides trying to “beat” a standardized test.

3) Private schools and vouchers are not the answer. Private schools can accept who they want to attend their school therefore not everyone will be able to attend private schools. Something to consider before you cast stones, Public schools are required to take and teach everyone; while private schools are not bound by the requirements of teacher certification and state testing requirements.

I love teaching! I love to see the “light” come on when a student grasps a concept. Be thankful that there are many of us that care enough to fight the good fight even though many of you would like to see us gone.

Just think, close the public schools and the teachers would have to get jobs at the private schools. Cool!!! More money for me!!! Be serious, if I were in this for the money I wouldn’t be here.

By Ernest

December 17, 2008 9:04 PM | Link to this

FrustratedEducator, thanks for the decision you made to teach our children! You are right, many would rather sit on the sidelines and complain. Here’s hoping your classroom is bright each and every day.

By Time for change in ed

December 17, 2008 10:26 PM | Link to this

Amen to the call for assessing the number of administrators in school districts! Unfortunately, the school district is a MAJOR employer in many of these rural counties and nepotism is rampant.

One district in southeast Georgia with which I am personally connected has opted to not hire subs when a teacher is out for fewer than 4 days (teachers in the school must cover classes during their planning periods).

However, they are still very top-heavy in administrators. (When a few just retired effective the end of this semester, they filled their positions despite the “dire” budget situation.) These are positions heavily dependent on local funds, because the state allocates a limited number.

Frame of reference: The 10th-12th grade high school with around 1600 students has a principal and 4 assistant principals, as well as CTAE and athletic directors who do not teach any classes. Those 7 positions are also “supported” by 5 secretaries (in addition to the data clerk, bookkeeper, receptionist, attendance clerk,…) Oh, yes, they also have seventeen (10 + 7) assistant football coaches - local funds supplements.

As a taxpayer in a county which is required to pay into the QBE fund, it galls me to see the rural counties sueing for even more funding when this is how this system uses the funds (millions of dollars) they’re now getting from QBE. If it was going to the students, rather than administration, it would be justified.

Guess how I feel about the absolute”local school control” idea?

By FrustratedEducator

December 18, 2008 7:21 AM | Link to this

Time for change in ed;

I agree that some positions are filled that need not be filled. However, I seriously doubt that your 17 assistant coaches are payed with county monies. Many coaching positions beyond the head coach, offensive/defensive coordinators are paid through booster clubs. Not to mention that I doubt the salary is consequential in the scheme of things ($17-25K for the assistants).

As far as 5 admins for 1600 students, that is a state requirement. Our school has 5 for 1200, but I wouldn’t give them up for anything in the world; they make it easier for us to teach.

Much of the waste I see is in purchasing programmed instruction and tools. School districts spend too much money on proprietary solutions instead of working to improve free open source solutions. A prime example is using Blackboard instead of Moodle (moodle.org) to deliver online instruction. If we want public education to change we must have people in positions of authority that are not afraid to work outside of the box.

That’s the way I see it.

By thomas

December 20, 2008 12:11 AM | Link to this

Tony,

I do not believe that this blog is totally worthless. In fact, I have found it enlightening SEVERAL times. It is sometimes entertaining as well.

However, from time to time, we get the rabble from off the streets coming in spewing garbage. There’s a lot of off the wall nonsense rollign around in people’s heads out there.