Get Schooled

By jim d

December 15, 2008 8:54 AM | Link to this

I must admit I’ve always been somewhat fascinated with the phenomena of teaching a student in 4 weeks that which the same teachers failed to teach them in 36 weeks. If this is truly possible we are obviously missing an opportunity to crank out some real genius’s.

By SallyB

December 15, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

Get REAL!!!!!!

There are several ways that all of those Atherton students [ and others ] could have passed the retest….NONE OF THEM INVOLVE “targeted tutoring and other methods during summer school”!!!!

By AJ in Hall

December 15, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

Does anyone know which school in Gainesville/Hall County and which one in Glynn County are going to be investigated?

By MSB

December 15, 2008 9:20 AM | Link to this

It is sad but not surprising that neither the local districts nor the state DOE picked up on these irregularities. Our school systems are very interested in generating data, but not at all interested in using to guide policy or performance. Data exists merely for the sake of collecting it. It is very telling that the Atlanta school district has no plans to investigate what went on at Adamsville Elementary. At least the state and DeKalb will belatedly do what they should have been doing from the start.

By Leia

December 15, 2008 9:23 AM | Link to this

jim d - Students tend to get more motivated to get good grades when their parents are inconvenienced by having to provide transportation and pay $295 for summer school! It’s not rocket science!

By Elaine

December 15, 2008 9:47 AM | Link to this

Regardless of how the retests became so much better than the tests, the only thing we’ve learned for sure from all this “accountability” is that the tests don’t mean squat.

If a kid can score that much higher in 4 weeks and a school is then off the hook, what on earth does that test mean? That teachers or admins can cheat? That a child can learn enough to go from failing to exceeding in 4 weeks? It’s MOOT!

These tests are a huge waste of money. I have yet to see a bottom line number on how much the whole process—test development, printing, distribution, collection, scoring, reporting, editing—is costing us in tax dollars. It’s got to be in the TENS of MILLIONS at the very least. Think of how much smaller our class sizes could be…how much better equipped we could be…how better trained teachers could be with that money.

Teacher support and low pupil/teacher ratios…that’s how you improve education. NOT throwing millions at tests.

By jim d

December 15, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

Leia,

Motivation may be a factor. I really doubt it is the major contributing factor though. If it were, I’d suspect the thought of not being able to hang at the mall all summer with ones friends would be a motivating factor long before summer school starts.

By Not Surprised

December 15, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

I know this principal and I’m not surprised what-so-ever that there are implications of cheating.

He cares more about image than anything. He wants everyone to see the shiny outside, when the inside is rotten. He wants to maintain his “100% graduation” rate for those kids who don’t want to learn a damn thing, but still wind up being promoted to the next grade. I KNOW the boy that mentioned in the article that scored amazingly high on the test (they were actually bragging about him!) and now he’s in the 6th grade. Guess they don’t really care about how they “prepared” him for his future.

Students don’t want to learn, behavior issues, bottom floor test scores, parents who disappear at the word “volunteer” and who can astoundingly afford new cars and clothes, but get free lunch.

I’m SO glad my kids don’t attend Atherton anymore. There are teachers that care, but if the students & parents don’t… what’s the use? If you have a good student there, take them out NOW and let those urchins take over.

Just another poor excuse for a Dekalb County School.

By Ernest

December 15, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Whenever there is a significant changes in test scores, year over year, up or down, those schools should be ‘flagged’ for possible investigation. We want to make sure that the results are helping us understand whether comprehension took place. We, the citizens asked for standardized testing as a measuring instrument because we questioned the outcomes of students when comparing them in the same school, school system, state, region, and country. If there is an objective way of performing an ‘apple to apple’ comparison, we should be using that.

FWIW, wasn’t there a movie made about Hispanic students that did so well on a math test, the were questioned by the testing administrators? If I recall, the test was administered again and the students got similar results.

Ironically, something like that is done with the IRS when they notice significant changes to income from one year to the next on our 1040’s. Not everyone is audited but the change can influence the likelihood of one being selected.

By Jason

December 15, 2008 10:50 AM | Link to this

Wow! The double whammy: Not only do these schools suck at teaching, they suck at cheating, too.

By Leia

December 15, 2008 11:04 AM | Link to this

jim d - the type of kids you’re talking about don’t think that far ahead. They can’t see the end results (summer school vs. hanging in the mall) until it becomes a reality. Additionally, during those 4 weeks, kids can retain the information easier because there’s less time to forget it.

By jim d

December 15, 2008 11:11 AM | Link to this

Leia,

I’ll buy into that although I’m still not certain it totally explains this portent.

By I HATE GEORGIA

December 15, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Only in a backward ignorant southern state like Georgia does such nonsense take place. I’m down here temporarily on business and I can’t wait to get back home to Connecticut. I hate the south with all of its ignorance and backward ways.

By Teacher&Mom

December 15, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

I HATE GEORGIA , Ever read Freakonomics? You’ll see that cheating on standardized tests isn’t a southern problem. The authors address this very issue in the first couple of chapters and the school system isn’t located anywhere near Georgia.

By jim d

December 15, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

I hate,

I doubt many here can dispute your claims after the Textbook Disclaimer Sticker debacle.

By catlady

December 15, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

It is incredible that the DOE has to rely on the AJC to do its job. In the spring, they admitted that they never track how many kids were held back after they had failed the CRCT. Then later it was obvious that they had not done basic validily testing on some of the middle school exams. Now, it turns out they do not routinely check for severely outlying scores on the required test! Such gross incompetence should be ended immediately! It shows a total lack of leadership and professional accountability.

Now, to the scores. Another way to check the validily of these “outlandish” scores would be to look at the math scores on the ITBS take by this year’s sixth graders. If in fact they learned that much math in 18 days, this large increase should be observable in their ITBS scores for fall, 2008. Yeah, I know it is not the same test, but there should be a similar exaggerated upward trend.

HOpefully the state will do a full investigation on those schools with more than 3 SD of improvement, and start doing it routinely. It should include erasures and those who are allowed to mark in the book (then the scores are transfered) as well. In addition these suspect schools should be closely monitored for years afterward.

Finally, if cheating is found, all involved should be immediately fired. If the scores can be validated (by looking at other measures of student achievement) then what they did to achieve such remarkable scores should be packaged and provided to the rest of us. From the vague description in the paper “we look at their weaknesses and teach that” it is exactly what we all do.

The state DOE can answer these questions. Will it?

By Leia

December 15, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

jim d- No! You are absolutely correct! What I was talking about has nothing to do with the corrupt doings at this particular school. I was just speaking in general terms. Sorry!

By I HATE GEORGIA

December 15, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Teacher&Mom

They were Chicago city schools that the cheating took place. I also hate Chicago. Now go get the tobacco juice cleaned from your teeth and please try to teach your students something instead of just drawing a paycheck.

By jim d

December 15, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

excellent points Cat,

How about it DANA? Would you care to tackle these questions?

By jim d

December 15, 2008 11:57 AM | Link to this

No need to feel sorry Leia,

I think we are pretty much on the same page. Well at least in the same book. :)

To borrow an old cliche’ If something seems too good to be true …

By caroline

December 15, 2008 12:03 PM | Link to this

I hate Ga, I’ll buy the ticket if you’ll go today and promise NEVER to return. I”m proud to be a retired teacher, and I am proud of Ga. How many languages can you speak and teach? My children are products of the Gs school system My daughter the architect has an advanced degree in historic preservation. My son has a degree in criminal justice. I taught in the school systems that educated them. Oh, and my husband says he”ll buy you your first drink if you go today.

By Lisa Marie

December 15, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

What about Fayette County Schools, every school made 100%, sounds STRANGE!!!!!!!

By I HATE GEORGIA

December 15, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

caroline

You claim to be a teacher so teach yourself this: why is your state dead last when it comes to education. And spare me that anecdotal BS about your son and daughter. Hows the rest of the kids in Georgia doing??? Tell your husband I dring scotch neat.

By jim d

December 15, 2008 12:16 PM | Link to this

Caroline,

Yankee’s are like stray cats.

You do realize of course that when you feed them they tend to stick around and become damn yankee’s don’t you?

By Irony for you all

December 15, 2008 12:17 PM | Link to this

Does anyone find it alarming that teachers are not supposed to even look at the tests that we administer? FYI…I did look at them last year, and questions had no correct answer. But I’m not allowed to tell anyone because I’m not allowed to look at the test. Just a little information for Jimd and the rest to think about.

By mystery poster

December 15, 2008 12:22 PM | Link to this

You know what they say,

“When all else fails, manipulate the data.”

By Forever

December 15, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

One of two things happened. We can say the schools cheated and helped kids on the test or we can say 4 weeks of teaching only 1 subject (Math) and tailoring that teaching specifically for the CRCT was the answer. Either way, it doesn’t tell us much. Any fifth grader without a severe learning disability can learn the material in 4 weeks if that’s the only thing they are doing compared to the typical fifth grader’s day of multiple subjects and distractions during the school year.

By jim d

December 15, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

Irony for you all,

Jim d has known this since before the first CRCT was administered. I’ve sounded that alarm for years, but no one seems to give a rats A@#. Fortunately I no longer do either since I no longer have a dog in that fight.

As I recall We even had a teacher of the year nearly fired for looking at the test and commenting honestly to the BOE regarding this very issue. Since it is a matter of record and the mere mention of the name drives one super insane, go ahead and search James Hope to see what ordeals he was put through by a corrupt administration.

By Smoke and mirrors

December 15, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

Lordy ain’t that the truth Mystery! Sort of like a district that targets a large number of it’s potential dropouts and then has them withdrawn and then re-enrolled in the alternative school to try for a GED. Sure makes the high schools look a lot better fast! And helps the entire district get of the NI list right quick! How’s that for some manipulation for ya?

By Meme

December 15, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

The only person allowed to look at the test is our test administrator. Funny, I do believe she is the one who gives the retests.

By Dr. Craig Spinks/Augusta

December 15, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

For how much longer will the GDOE resist hiring qualified, disinterested persons from outside our public school apparatus to administer our state’s “high-stakes” tests?

By Tony

December 15, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

It is impossible for a school to go from one extreme to the other as indicated in today’s topic without some form of questionable activity. It is very possible for kids to improve when instruction is provided in a concentrated fashion as it is in summer school, but for everyone to then pass the test is highly suspicious. Catlady is correct to state that a comparison to ITBS should have been done.

Regarding poorly written test materials, I alerted our central office to some bad questions. They attempted to report the items to the state and we were reprimanded with statements like, “How can someone know what the questions are? Noone is allowed to read the questions.” I thought I was going to have an ethics complaint. The quality control for factual details is not strong enough, the test writers are not as well versed in the subject matter as the should be, and the reliability checks are not strong enough.

jim d is also absolutely correct about feeding stray cats.

By godoggo

December 15, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

……..As a parent of a APS student…i kinda agree with Leia, although imskepticle. And being highly active (that means going to his class at least once every week for lunch, going over his daily assignments with him, reading books with him even though he is an excellerated reader, staying in touch with the teacher by email DAILY,etc.) I can assssssure you that most any student, in any Metro school, that is led by a single parent, that becomes an infringement on that parent making income, because of his inability to PAY ATTENTION OR BEHAVE during those 36 weeks will be punished. Sorry, many people will not agree with this, but i have first hand accounts of it.

*Kudos to catlady / Jim D / Not suprised…im almost sure, this guy is just building his resume so he can eventually more to another district, state, etc. and bump up his signing bonus !

And it’s all George Bush’s fault (hahaha)

Seriously…my Son’s Teacher emails us daily with the homework assignment, i have not excuse also for letting him be sub par…We need to take care of our OWN children and sometime help others with theirs when we can (someitmes).

And im a single parent : )

Can i get an AMEN ?

By catlady

December 15, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

forever: I believe the kids have 2 hours per day x 18 days of remediation in summer school for math, and the same for reading for elementary school(they are usually the same students). School runs 8:30-2 with breakfast, lunch and recess.

For MONTHS before the test the kids are drilled in CRCT format, problems, etc. The ones in danger of failing are given extra after-school tutoring for weeks beforehand,too. In addition, the kids who have had trouble on the CRCT before have small classes and extra intervention classes all year long. So how do the 36 summer hours help THAT much? At our school many of the kids have had over 320 hours of math instruction BEFORE the CRCT in the spring.

For years some of us have thought the cut scores were manipulated for the summer adminstration.

We do have kids who are instructed by their parents to do poorly on the CRCT in the spring so they will have the extra weeks of babysitting. I know this for a fact.

I don’t know the answer, but I know that 9 SD of improvement is beyond the realm of believeability. And that the state is “unaware” of this also strains credulity.

By Dr. Craig Spinks/Augusta

December 15, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Catlady and Tony, don’t mention the ITBS! GDOE educrats don’t want Peach State taxpayers to be alerted to the fact that our public school students’ performances on the Iowa Test of Basic Skills compare abysmally to those of students from other sections of the US.

By jim d

December 15, 2008 1:32 PM | Link to this

godoggo,

With a salary of $306,904.73 a year and a $10,000 expense account plus a few other perks I don’t forsee wilbanks going anywhere without being booted.

By teach1

December 15, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

I was one of those summer school teachers. I did not work a miracle but I was able to help some of the students gain the few points they missed by looking at their areas of need and focusing specifically in the areas they had the most difficult time on the inital test. So after, 5 weeks of small group work in that specific area they make just enough of a gain to pass that test. REALITY!

By jim d

December 15, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

ooppps my bad,

his total compensation package is worth approximately $353,252 per year.

none the less he won’t be leaving of his own accord for a very long time.

By jim d

December 15, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

teach1,

Gee maybe if you took a few lessons from these folks, you too could be a miracle worker capable of bringing your students from worst to first in 4 short weeks.

Whatta think? LOL

By steve

December 15, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

I, obviously, have no way of knowing whether the schools cheated, or not.

I do believe that over a 16 day period of rigorous studying, I could teach 60 5th graders to pass that test.

Its not that difficult. Just teach them what is on the test and drill for about 8 hours a day.

If you gave me 128 hours to drill for a 60 question exam, I think I could pass it, no matter what the subject matter.

By budman

December 15, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

I am blessed to have been born in the South. We all stood for the National and the Southern battle songs at high school football games. I love the diversity of this country. Got drafted and went to Vietnam because my country asked me to do it and don’t get me wrong, saturday night in “time square” is such a rush and sitting on the square on the 18 step of the Lincoln Memorial at night really makes you realize how brave Dr. Martin L. King was. You can’t fix stupid but as was pointed out you can cook the numbers. There is a serenty living in a county that has 180 people per square mile. After the crazy times in the big cities I love to watch deer come into my backyard. I have a BS with a minor in education and I found out it can be the best shot at warehousing kids. As a young 60 year old I can look back and see how much energy is required to hate something. I had great parents but the best advice about life came from my 8th grade science teacher and my advisor in college. USA everyday.

By Carol

December 15, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

racist!!!

By Forever

December 15, 2008 2:02 PM | Link to this

catlady,

Really? Kids are drilled in CRCT format for months eh? So normal school work is dumped for months and it’s all CRCT all the time? Then during this time the kids who are not responding well to this CRCT drilling are then kept after school in mandatory CRCT tutoring sessions for weeks before the real test? Then kids who had problems with the CRCT in previous school years (how many qualify as a problem?) are taken from their “normal” class (thus missing the normal CRCT prep) and put in super special prep classes for extra intervention all year long? Talk about a management nightmare. No wonder kids are failing. They are being pulled from “normal” school so much and keep getting placed in special classes where I seriously doubt they are being drilled the material as they would during a summer school session. Which teachers are allocated to these after-school tutoring sessions and intervention sessions during the normal school day “all year long”? Do we have a budget for full-time CRCT teachers at every school to be there 5 days a week and instruct every child in danger of failing? Who keeps track of all this considering the BOE doesn’t hardly know who is a problem until after the fact???

By D

December 15, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

I think this just shows how much stress teachers are under to teach to a test that is so culturally biased to begin with, it’s hard to see the worth in it. These tests that we measure a student’s progress are just ridiculous. The whole system needs help. These kids aren’t stupid - they’re taking a test made by a group of upper middle class, highly educated white people who only put questions on these tests that they have a background reference to. These kids don’t have the same background knowledge. Nor do they have the financial support to get it.

We as a country need to realize that the people who are making the decisions about what kids should learn when and how they should learn it are being made by people who have never taken child development classes or teaching methodology classes. They have not the first clue as to what they’re speaking about.

I think we should let teachers teach the way they’ve been taught to do so. Their methodology classes tell them how children’s brains develop and when is a good time to learn in different ways. One test can’t measure everyone’s knowledge. If we’re going to test these students, we should test them before teaching and then again afterward. That way we can see if they’ve actually made progress. Isn’t that the point? Progress - not making everyone fit into a cookie cutter mold?

By Not A Teacher

December 15, 2008 2:11 PM | Link to this

I agree. If you can learn enough in 4 weeks to outdo every school system (even tho Ga. is last in education), then it should have been done during the 9 month school year. I tend to think that teachers were teaching the test, not the material they messed up on during the year. They deserve to be investigated.

By SFMom

December 15, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

I HATE GEORGIA the feelings mutual…please leave! Whatever your excuse is for being here, you came here, we didn’t invite you! There is no proof that these students cheated, and cheating occurs everywhere!

There should be an investigation. Period. Let’s hold off on the rush to judgement. NCLB is a joke anyway.

By fishy goings-on

December 15, 2008 2:13 PM | Link to this

If it sounds “too good to be true”, then it probably is. Think about it. Kids can’t learn squat during the school year, yet they ALL ace the material in summer school. Smells fishy to ME.

By catlady

December 15, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Well, I have legitmately read the test many times(I am frequently assigned kids with extreme modifications who have the test read to them), and I can speak only of 3rd and 5th but there are test questions that have multiple possible answers appearing on the tests. You cannot tell me the state marks them correct, however.

I have no faith in the construct validity of the CRCt, and little faith in it in other realms of validity as well. For example, in math (as, I admit, in real life) the test is all word problems. So if a kid is a poor reader he will quite likely have a hard time figuring out what to compute. Add to that (for us) that we use Reading First which focuses on how fast you call words rather than comprehend.

In addition, if you give the CRCT one day and then give it again 5 days later, you are likely to have widely variable scores. I also question its predictive validity. What does it tell us about the kids who pass or fail it?

Add to that that so many kids have figured out that IT DOES NOT MATTER IF YOU PASS IT OR NOT, YOU WILL STILL GO ON TO THE NEXT GRADE. If you lack personal pride, you won’t try unless there is a stick or carrot.

I sure hope the DOE will investigate the allegations. Or maybe the AJC will follow up with more analysis, including this year’s results on the ITBS and info on the sp ed/esol status of these kids with the remarkable gains. (ESOL and sp ed kids are more likely to have marked their anwers in the book, requiring that their answers be transfered onto the scoring sheet.)

By The Truth

December 15, 2008 2:17 PM | Link to this

Yes, the improved performance of the schools are too good to be true. We can try to be kind to the students and say they were given special tutoring and motivational encouragement but the bottom line is the results stink of corruption in the system. Even if these students were able to acheive the retest results without cheating being involved, it only speaks to the poor quality of teaching that goes on during the regular school year. Either way, someone should get fired - the people who assisted with the cheating or the people who taught the kids for nine months and failed to accomplish what other teachers could do in six weeks.

Regarding Georgia schools in general, we have bright spots here and there, but overall we have to face the facts that our public schools in Georgia are sub par when compared to other areas of the country. In case any of you are wondering, coming in at #46 on college SAT performance is pathetic.

By Teacher of 20 years

December 15, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

There is not mystery it is called CHEATING

By Not Surprised

December 15, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

D and Carol - get over yourselves. I’m black, I have black children & I HATED Atherton!! It’s a cesspool.

There’s nothing racist about it when you have 98% black teachers, 99% black students, and 100% black administration at the school!!

Black folks are in charge there and it’s still toilet.

By Not Surprised

December 15, 2008 2:24 PM | Link to this

Sorry — that should say “it’s still IN THE toilet.” Fingers were typing too fast!

By Gotta Love Dekalb Schools

December 15, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

This is shady with a capital “S”. DeKalb Schools Superintendant Crawford Lewis has no control over this massive bureaucracy. This is just one more example. He was a DCSS insider for years before he became super. It’s not always a good thing for you superintendant to be in the same system for over 30 years. Time for some new views and management at DCSS.

Check out http://dekalbschoolwatch.blogspot.com/ and GoDeKalb.com for great discussion on this and other DeKalb school issues.

By Forever

December 15, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

LOL, hilarious Not Surprised. The whole “this test is culturally bias” card is so played out now too. Especially in math. Is this 1984 again? 1+1 = 2 no matter who you are or how much money a kid’s parents make. Specifically who are the tests culturally biased against today anyways?

By lovelyliz

December 15, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

Is it the Houston miracle all over again? 1. Encourage students who do poorly to feel poorly and miss school on test day.

If it can work in Texas……

By catlady

December 15, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

forever:In our school the ONLY math that is taught is that that conforms to GPS, which is what the CRCT come from. So, I guess the answer is YES. Everything comes from that. There is no “normal” meaning non GPS/Non-CRCt. And the kids who get pulled are pulled from science or social studies classes, not from “normal” math classes (since there are none). The students, however, are not MADE to go to the afterschool sessions. It is offered to those who are likely to fail, and some cannot take it because parents have to provide the ride home.

ALL teachers are CRCT teachers. Even the p.e., music, and art teachers are pulled to do math and reading interventions. No one gets extra pay unless they also do the after school tutoring.

And the school DOES know who “is a problem” because they have several years of data with the kid failing the CRCT previously. They also have ITBS scores for this year, and they have teacher recommendations. It really is NOT a shot in the dark to infer who might have trouble on the CRCT.

I am guessing your previous posting which I am answering was a jest, but maybe you really just do not know what is going on. And yes, it is a logistical nightmare. But, hey, they gotta do well on the CRCT, or the world ends!

So, you see, I wonder how much good 36 hours of instruction will be, unless, as an earlier poster said, the child was very close to a passing score on the spring test, and unless that score was a valid one (meaning, the kid is not just a good guesser).

Twice I have had a totally non English speaking kid take the CRCT (usually they are exempt for a year, but if they come in after the ACCESS test is given and before the CRCT is given, they are given the CRCT without the exemption) and COME VERY CLOSE TO PASSING THE CRCT. Now, if it is a great test it looks like they would not do so well on it, knowing no English, doesn’t it? So I have little faith in the validity of the CRCT.

Dr. Spinks: amen and amen on the ITBS. At least it has a straight computation problem so you can somewhat parse out if the problem is math or if it is reading.

By linda

December 15, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

D - what cultural bias are you talking about??? What does income have to do with it??? My very poor (multiple generations in one apartment) Asian students (mostly Korean) in general do quite well or at least pass these tests. And their parents often don’t even speak English!

By lovelyliz

December 15, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this

Ever seen public education in West VA and Kentucky at work?

By catlady

December 15, 2008 2:46 PM | Link to this

steve: take a bunch of 5th graders whose math skills are on second grade level. Who read like 2nd or 3rd graders should. Who cannot tell you accurately what 8+5 is EVEN USING THEIR FINGERS, much less do subtraction or multiplication and division. Then, take into account that they can barely read the problem..

NOW TELL US THAT YOU CAN TEACH THEM WHAT THEY NEED TO KNOW TO PASS THE 5TH GRADE LEVEL OF THE CRCT IN 18 days!

Because those are the kids we are talking about. Please don’t insult the teachers who work with them for hundreds of hours. We want them to do well, but they are so far behind they cannot be caught up in a year, much less 3 1/2 weeks. So we chip away at the problem, trying to make 18 months’ progress in 9.

By janet j.

December 15, 2008 2:48 PM | Link to this

Fayette had 100% for all schools, something is WRONG with that picture. Sounds like some hanky panky in that county!!!!!!!!!!!

By MD

December 15, 2008 2:50 PM | Link to this

Retest each of these kids TODAY. If the results can’t be replicated — Fire them all. Lying bunch of slimy “educators.” I hope they never teach/administrate again and these kids get some hard-working folks with INTEGRITY to help them learn. It apparently hasn’t been happening much at these schools. Disgusting. Just disgusting.

By Lenni

December 15, 2008 2:51 PM | Link to this

Dam* if you do, dam* if you don’t…only in Georgia.

By catlady

December 15, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

Sorry about the typos. I do speak and write English “good” but when I get annoyed my fingers are way behind my brain.

By Cammi317

December 15, 2008 3:02 PM | Link to this

This is an awful thing to speculate on in this way. Until proven otherwise, as far as I am concerned those kids studied hard and those test scores are accurate. It could have been as simple as the regular math teachers were not as ept in teaching math as the teachers who chose to teach summer school. I have heard some math teachers complain about they are having difficulty in teaching the “new math,” which teaches the old math a new way. How awful would it be to find out they are on the level and all of those kids having been publicly humiliated due to uncircumstantiated speculation? I am glad my child is not in this situation.

By jim d

December 15, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

LOL Cat,

Did u mean you do it well?

Sorry dear, couldn’t help myself. :)

By budman

December 15, 2008 3:08 PM | Link to this

When your density population is 2200 people per square mile, as Dekalb county you can divide the class room in to 3 groups:those that do well without help, those that do well when good teaching skills are used and those that will never make it even if there was divine intervention.yea cumon

By Forever

December 15, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

catlady,

Thanks for clarifying. So in teaching CRCT math, are kids being taught practical application of the math they are exposed to or are they simply taught how to pass a test with math on it? There is a huge difference in understanding how to solve a math problem and how to narrow down or guess the right answer by eliminating bogus answers (test taking strategy).

If the students are not forced to go to afterschool sessions, then why bring them up? What percentage of kids go to these programs on a regular basis and show improvement? If kids are pulled from science or social studies classes to study math, doesn’t that hurt the kids when it’s time to test for science and social studies? Doesn’t that also hurt their progression in understanding various topics in science and social studies in later grades?

No offense to PE, Music, and Art teachers, but are they qualified to teach CRCT math to the troubled students who need extra help in the first place? I’m not questioning whether these teachers can successfully work math problems but if they were trained to teach students math, wouldn’t they be math teachers in the first place? There is a huge difference in being able to do something yourself and being able to teach it to others.

As far as schools keeping data, if a child hass failed several prior tests, it sounds like it’s a little too late for extra sessions to make a difference. Perhaps another strategy is required for these students who continue to struggle year after year, test after test? As far as not knowing what’s going on, I watched my now retired mother spend the majority of her years as a middle school math teacher producing her own lesson plans and actually TEACH math as a trained professional. The day that this responsibility was pulled from teachers and things became more standardized upstream is the day the ability to convey information from teachers to students began to erode. Anyone can read from a book or a guide but how many teachers actually teach anymore? I’m not saying teachers today don’t have the ability to teach, I’m saying the structure of learning in our schools has changed to remove their opportunity to teach because too much time is spent on instructing students to beat a standardized test. My analogy is that I work in IT. I’ve seen many people who can pass a Microsoft certified exam but once they have a job relevant to the test material they can’t practically apply any of that knowledge to everyday tasks. I would love to see more practical application taught and less “how to beat the test” lessons.

As far as your non-English speakers almost passing the Math CRCT, I’m not surprised. The concepts of math are not bound to a single spoken language. As long as those kids can identify numbers and operators they can work the problems. I’d bet the problems they fail are simply the ones where most of the details are in word problems where they miss out due to the language barrier.

By Ernest

December 15, 2008 3:10 PM | Link to this

To Dr. Spinks @ 1:17. Though NCLB allows each state to use their own testing instrument, many agree the ITBS provides better comparative analysis. Not to infer a conspiracy, but does anyone think some in the state government would prefer the results of the CRCT be published over the ITBS? It could have an impact on our ability to attract businesses and industry to the state. Didn’t GA just lose a biotech firm because they felt we did not have enough of a qualified workforce coming from our K-12 schools?

By butch

December 15, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

Testing has its uses, but you can’t expect continuous year over year improvements. The whole Bush no-child-left-behind program was designed for failure and to harm public education (vouchers being the ultimate goal).

There are some children who, no matter how hard they try, will not be able to pass the test. The temptation for educators to cheat must get pretty high when they hit this wall.

By hearts n flowers

December 15, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Cammi, Cammi, Cammi…

Please re-read the posts here that come from working teachers. You seem to be implying that some of the teachers are not up to conveying 3rd and 5th grade math concepts. This would be quite scary. I have also seen some of the CRCT questions, and sometimes they do have multiple correct answers or no correct answers. No teacher can prepare children for that.

By catlady

December 15, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

Yeah, jim, I did mean well. That is why I put “good” in quotations—to be funny. haha. Guess not.

cammi, NO ONE is blaming the kids for the “irregularities”. The kids it would effect at my school would not be able to figure out how to cheat at this level. I assume that is true elsewhere.

And it isn’t that anyone is sure the school cheated. It is just that it is incredibly, highly, nearly impossibly unlikely that you could have had such tremendous gain scores without help, such as divine intervention or cheating. (Thank you, Lord)

It is like it used to be with the prospective football player who makes a 700 SAT and then cannot be admitted on it and make a 1200 on the next retest. Highly unlikely.

Sometimes people do more poorly than what you would expect due to incorrect numbering. However, for so many to “see the light”… As in the movie “When Harry Met Sally”….I will have some of what she is having.

I still have a marked sense of disbelief that it is the NEWSPAPER that ferreted it out, rather than the state DOE, which has much easier access to the data and many more people who should be doing this kind of research routinely.

By Yvette

December 15, 2008 3:32 PM | Link to this

What seem to be the problem. If this was a school listed in the White community this would not even be going on now. I know for a fact that Dekalb County worked very hard with the students this summer. If you do not have the proof and facts why even comment on the issue. No Child Left Behind (haha) it seems to me that when it comes down to our community it is always a problem. Lets face it our kids are intelligent going to college just like all the other community school kids.

By catlady

December 15, 2008 3:36 PM | Link to this

forever:Test taking strategies are covered, but they are not the main focus. 99% of the time is math computation and word problems.

Yeah, it sure does hurt their science and social studies when the kids are not in there. The homeroom teacher is supposed to “catch them up” on what was covered. Haha. But it does not count for NCLB, you see.

In elementary school, all teachers have to have credentials to teach math and reading.

As far as ESOL kids, the problem with the newbies is they CANNOT read the 100% word problems to be able to figure out what operation to use. Or if the numbers are written out, they cannot pick them out (seven, for example) If it were straight computation, as on the ITBS, they would usually do pretty well as long as they had had instruction in their home countries. Some have never been to school before.

At our school about 90% of the kids recommended for afterschool tutoring go. So that is a moot point.

Unless your mother retired in the last couple of years, I think it is safe to say things have changed. I have taught 35 years and I can tell you it is quite different.

By Cammi317

December 15, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

I feel sorry for the kids either way, they are the ones who will be caught in the middle of this mess. Whether they did great and everyone doubted them or if they did poorly and the administration “helped” their scores, their sense of accomplishment is quashed. I think I would feel better if I knew how badly these kids failed in the first place. Knowing if it was originally by a couple of points or by massive points could clarify some of this.

hearts n flowers I have a fifth grader (not at any of these problem schools, so I have talked to a few teachers over the years. Several have been quite adament about having difficulty, especially at the 4th and 5th grade levels, in teaching math the way that is now required. I know that I myself looked at my daughter like she was strange way back in 2nd grade when she came home taking what I deemed unnecessary steps to answer simple math problems. It was hard for me to adapt when assisting her because it just seemed utterly ridiculous to go through all of those steps. I gritted my teeth and helped her they way that they were teaching, but I also made sure that she could computate the traditional way which was a lot quicker. It has since been explained to me that some children need that step by step process. Thank God her teachers this year say as long as the answer is correct they can use any method that they choose.

By John

December 15, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

The best solution is to eliminate the tests. Barring that, don’t let a teacher or anyone else in School A administer, collect, or have anything to do with the tests given to the students in School A. On Test Day, randomly assign every educator in the state to travel to a school in a different area of the state. That teacher would administer the test to a group of students he or she has never seen before. For example, a first grade teacher at Mt. Zion School in Carroll County would handle testing for sixth graders in somewhere like Savannah. Do this all over the state.

By meg

December 15, 2008 4:07 PM | Link to this

My daughter’s friend said her teacher gave them the answers and let them keep it on their desk during the test. When my son was in school they gave his class the answers. Imagine how badly everyone would do if they didn’t cheat. Especially since they’re too busy teaching the test to actually teach.

By jim d

December 15, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

Well Cat,

ya dun good!

By catlady

December 15, 2008 4:25 PM | Link to this

Cammi, speaking to quashing their “sense of accomplishment”. I have seen too many kids whose sense of accomplishment, fed by praise for merely breathing for themselves, is inflated. Teenagers, for example, who read on 4th grade level but plan to go to colege and become doctors.

MD: I am not sure retesting the kids is the answer. Replicating their scores is unlikely. Besides the statistical problems(regression to the mean, etc) , there is a great deal of variablity between forms of the test and variability about how much effort kids put into the test, or even how well they guess. My bias is that I have watched kids take this test and don’t think it is a very accurate measure of much of anything, as I have seen them miss simple facts on which they have been drilled (such as the state bird, which appears numerous times on the 3rd grade CRCT) ad nauseum.

I really think 2 things should be done immediately: compare their gains on the CRCt vs fall administration of the ITBS (If they gained 3% on the ITBS but 50% on the CRCT, for example) and look at the forms/test books for signs of erasures and answers changed. Since we have to preserve and bag any test book they vomit or bleed on (REALLY) and turn it in, it should not be hard to do with materials that have not been vomited or bled on.

By Jess

December 15, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

I know for a fact that in some cases, teachers are told to cheat, and if they refuse to, or heaven help if they do the right thing and try to report such corruption, they are reprimanded in some way, shape, or form. Whether it’s a threat to make their current job more difficult, or a threat to make it hard for them to find another job, or both, it’s enough to make them think it’s more worth it just to cheat than to do the right thing. It’s all about numbers now, not knowledge. Sad…and scary…

By AParent

December 15, 2008 4:28 PM | Link to this

Are All Teachers teaching to the standardized tests???? Just a question.

By jim d

December 15, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Aparent,

Not all—I know of several that even refuse to use faulty text books. The problem being discussed is really one of concern though since so much pressure is being placed on teachers and schools as a whole to produce numbers regardless of anything else.

By Concerned parent

December 15, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Of course the grades of CRCT’s are improving. This case may be questionable. But CRCT is all they teach our kids anymore. How to pass a test. We used to actually learn subjects in school. Not just the key facts or skills to pass a test that gets the state/ county/school its funding.

How are going to increase our kids appetite for learning if most of the year is taken up with prep for this test? This isnt helping them prepare for college.

By Hmmmmm

December 15, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Very sad! Corruption at every level of government! Well, Obama will fix it all! :)

By Keith Helms

December 15, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

Say it like it is. The students in this article are born with a serious disadvantage that the tax payer has no responsibility for nor has any responsibility to correct. The mothers of these students have no idea who the father is because there are too many to choose from. They do not work at any legal profession, live in government housing, and can’t do as well as the student on any test.. As sad as it is, I don’t owe the child anything as long as the child is in the custody of family members or their family receives any government assistance, meaning welfare or government housing. The people who bring these children into the world are responsible for the illegal immigrant invasion of this country and 80% of the crime in this country.

By it'sme

December 15, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

Ideally, if yoiu are teaching the state standards you are, in effect, teaching to the test. The test is supposed to test the standards. Sort of a which came first kind of thing…

By jim d

December 15, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

As unfortunate as it is, the fact is this has been debated ever since the CRCT was put in place. the fact is that regardless of how the students test or retest, few if any will be retained.

OH, if only testing did make them smarter or at least had an enlightening effect on politicans.

By gwatl

December 15, 2008 5:28 PM | Link to this

If the teachers cheated, they should be fired and barred from having access to kids in the future. Hardly a day goes by that we do not read of a teacher in the state taking advantage of a child in the public school system. The possible cheating on the CRCT is indicative of teachers NOT BEING ABLE TO TEACH THE SUBJECT MATTER THEY HAVE BEEN HIRED TO TEACH! Why is it that Georgia continues to be at the bottom? We hear a lot of rhetoric of IMPROVEMENT!! Give me a break! Think the new Superintendent of Clayton County may have a good idea: put the kids in uniformed dress; separate boys from girls; and INCREASE DISCIPLINE! Our public education system today attempts to cover up way too many incompetent teachers by allegedly imparting socializing kids and spending way too much time talking about sex, and demonstrating our inability to teach math, science and English!! Think we are way PAST TIME TO LOOK AT DISTANCE LEARNING FOR MANY OF OUR KIDS!! WE ARE PROVING EACH DAY THAT WE ARE NOT CAPABLE OF STAFFING OUR SCHOOLS WITH COMPETENT MATH & SCIENCE TEACHERS!! WHEN WILL WE LEARN?? AFTER CHINA & INDIA TAKES OVER OUR BUSINESSES AND INSTITUTIONS? (Wonder what the NEA and AEA will do then??)

By MariLaTica

December 15, 2008 5:46 PM | Link to this

I have to make a comment about the retests. I used to teach elementary school and taught summer school for two years. What I found over the years and what I know is still true today, is that people DO teach the test. Especially during the last month before the CRCT is administered, teachers (at my old school) were to do constant CRCT practice. The reason: to make AYP. It wasn’t ever really about students really learning anything. It’s just to “make the grade”.

Currently I’m at a very “high-achieving” school. Again, the principal makes a very big deal about the accolades we get. However, what I see a lot of is students cheating and parents begging for grades to be changed (and teachers being forced to do so).

I don’t doubt there are some very intelligent students EVERYWHERE. But standardized tests do not show that.

I also want to say that placing the blame on teachers is quite unfair. We can only do what we are mandated to do. We have absolutely no power in the classroom, school or school system. Our voices are usually not the ones that the Board or politicians listen to.

And can I add that we should get paid more?

By Off Track

December 15, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Everyone on this thread is blaming the usual suspects. Well, attend a darn Board of Ed. meeting and speak up…loud! The DeKalb, Fulton, Atlanta, Gwinnett, Cobb, etc. Board of Ed’s control not just millions but billions of spending.

Gwinnett is a good school system, and Atlanta has improved, but others like DeKalb and Clayton are miserable, and a huge part of the reason is there is no accountability. Get involved, contact your Board of Ed rep., and let them know you demand better!!!

By Tony

December 15, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

cat, your 4:25 post is supported by finding from TIMSS, i think. Anyway, Singapore kids (who routinely outscore US kids in math) feel like math is their worst subject. Yet, US kids (who routinely score mediocre in math) feel like math is their BEST subject. Feeling good about your accomplishment does not mean your accomplishment is good.

By Forever

December 15, 2008 6:20 PM | Link to this

Keith Helms is what happens when we let kids pass and get paying jobs without proper education. They don’t know squat about how the world works and think they are being wronged.

Keith, you are misguided buddy. First, stop complaing about taxes. They are a necessary evil if you want a productive society. If you want to enjoy this country then you pay taxes. Now how much we pay is another story left for another blog. So don’t come here saying you as a tax payer do not have a responsibility because you do just like me and any other tax payer.

Second, just because a child is not part of a rich or even middle class family doesn’t mean the child is dumb or has bad parents. Some of the dumbest people I’ve met in my life have good money, hardly earned. Many were in the right place at the right time or inherited the money or opportunity based on a previous generation’s hard work. On the other hand, some of the more well off people I know came from a lower income upbringing which taught them how to value a dollar and make lots of their own dollars with hard work. They used this “free” education we call the public school system as their medium to enter a life of substantial earnings. So don’t write off a kid from a low incoming family as being a waste of your tax money. That “poor” kid may grow up one day to be a rich contributor to our society.

Finally, how can the parents on welfare or living in government housing be responsible for illegal immigration and 80% of the crime in this country??? Do all welfare recipients work for the border patrol or Department of Homeland Security?

By catlady

December 15, 2008 6:30 PM | Link to this

Tony, thank you.

Forever:Perhaps another strategy is required for these students who continue to struggle year after year, test after test?

Yeah, like teaching to mastery and holding back kids who do not make minimal grade level standards. But we don’t do that. It might deflate their sense of “accomplishment”. Like the HOPE grant, we sometimes systematically reward mediocrity.

By Forever

December 15, 2008 7:08 PM | Link to this

catlady,

Good luck with everything. I am a fan after seeing you say that educators should teach to mastery and hold back those who cannot achieve the minimum. Failure is a requirement for success. Somewhere along the way a generation of adults didn’t grow up and shunned the teachings of their parents. Instead of passing down lessons of hard work and dedication that generation of adults decided that everyone gets a trophy, everyone passes, and no child can ever know failure.

The sooner adults teach kids about how to recover from failure, the sooner kids will learn how to prepare themselves to avoid future failure. We can’t shelter kids from all the negatives then throw them to the wolves. Every person has to learn life lessons themselves. Hiding kids from negatives only makes them weaker adults and less prepared to handle the world.

By catlady

December 15, 2008 7:42 PM | Link to this

forever: well, thank you. My principal and the math coach think I am a nut because I don’t think we should push kids on in order to “expose” them to math concepts for the CRCT. They say we have to follow the curriculum map, and never mind that many of the skills build on previous skills which they did not master. “You mean we should RETAIN kids for not mastering basic math skills!?!”, they shrieked. Well, yeah, when we have 5th graders (not sp ed) who cannot, using their fingers, tell you what 8+5 is accurately, who don’t know that 8x7 is 56 without making and counting 56 tally marks (accurately), how do we expect them to do 85x7? They have to multiply, and add (with carrying) accurately to get the correct result. Then, let’s talk about perimeter. If you cannot add 8cm+5cm+8cm+5cm accurately, you won’t be able to talk about that rectangle’s perimeter. And if you can’t multiply, can you find the area?

I see no virtue in “exposing” the kids (running them through a warm kitchen) rather than TEACHING them until they get it.

It’s hard to run if you can’t stand up.

Two of our young teachers are behind on the curriculum map. They have been told to “cover” 8 chapters in 13 days so the kids will be “ready” for the benchmark test right before Christmas. Now, until the last 2 weeks the kids were mastering the math concepts. Now, with us flying through, they won’t be able to do much of anything from the 8 “drive through” chapters.

Any kids that don’t get it when we rush through are supposed to be served in “needs-based” time. The same teacher simultaneously is to provide grade level math while addressing the miriad of deficits they acquired while rushing through. At some point my fellow teachers will finally speak up with me and rebel!

Our county has hired 2 math coaches, teachers sent to innumerable workshops, we’ve stayed afterschool for hours of “training”, and they cannot understand WHY more than a third of our kids fail the math CRCT. Humm. Does it take a rocket scientist?

By dondee

December 15, 2008 8:43 PM | Link to this

Catlady, you speak the truth!

I hate instructional calendars and benchmarks! What an artificial way to teach! We can at least say that they have realigned the instructional calendar in math this year from last (when they thought second graders who still couldn’t do basic math facts accurately should work on 2 AND 3 digit addition with regrouping in THE FIRST NINE WEEKS OF SCHOOL!!!!!) Crazy!

I will absolutely teach my students what they need to know for the lovely CRCT….I will also try for mastery…. That really is a goal that I believe most teachers have for their students…..Instead of trying to teach kids skills they are not ready for, have them get really strong in the basic areas and then see what happens…..I think everyone might be surprised.

By catlady

December 15, 2008 9:28 PM | Link to this

Yeah, dondee. Maybe we can get a movement going, in a subversive way.

By Artie

December 15, 2008 9:43 PM | Link to this

Hey, states like Mississippi and Alabama, that were the typical bottom-dwellers as far as education goes, can finally say, “Thank God for Georgia!”

By M

December 15, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

GET BACK TO WORK Yes, there are a lot of problems. One of which is the fact that there are A LOT of posters here who appear to be teachers who are playing on the internet during the school day. Maybe you don’t care for the subject matter you are employed to teach, but that should be your focus during class time - not the internet. What else are you spending time on? One of my children had a teacher who gave his class busy work every day. When I asked him what the teacher was doing while they were basically wasting time, the response was ‘Duh, he’s working on his computer.” There should be none of this going on at all! That teacher did not complete the year - hope none of your children got him. Mine moved to schools with better administrators.

By Caseworker

December 15, 2008 9:53 PM | Link to this

I’m dreading moving from Grayson, GA to Tucker, GA…

….. DREADING.

By T Triplet

December 15, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Yeah………..everybody bickering about the CRCT test and the scores. If a child would go to school to learn and not worry about what everybody else is doing. They could pass the CRCT test. But we forget one thing. Teachers can not teach our children ever thing. We as parents/guardian , etc has to participate as well. Children are willing to learn when someone pay attention to them. Children are sponges and can absorb a lot of information. Educating children starts at age 3 and not the latter. For those of you who is not a Georgia native. I see your children enjoying the Georgia Lottery benefits. So quite comlaining about our lovely state.

By CPM

December 15, 2008 9:58 PM | Link to this

Does this mean that the AJC is smarter than a 5th grader?!?! Can we not be excited for the improvement until proven of any type of corruption? Oh, and thank you for the breakdown and explanation of Standard Deviation.

By T Triplet

December 15, 2008 10:24 PM | Link to this

Yeah………..everybody bickering about the CRCT test and the scores. If a child would go to school to learn and not worry about what everybody else is doing. They could pass the CRCT test. But we forget one thing. Teachers can not teach our children ever thing. We as parents/guardian , etc has to participate as well. Children are willing to learn when someone pay attention to them. Children are sponges and can absorb a lot of information. Educating children starts at age 3 and not the latter. For those of you who is not a Georgia native. I see your children enjoying the Georgia Lottery benefits. So quite comlaining about our lovely state.

By Teach2

December 16, 2008 6:27 AM | Link to this

This is for D and all of the others who are saying that the CRCT is “culturally biased”. Give me one example of this and maybe I will see the light but right now I believe it is hogwash. I have heard this for the past 20 years and am sick of it being used as an excuse as to why minorities don’t do well. D, you need to get your facts straight. It was not a test put together by middle class whites. There are many African Americans involved with the testing preparations committees. Why don’t you volunteer? Until then, find another excuse.

By Zoe

December 16, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Janet J.- just saw your post from yesterday @ 2:48 PM. There is nothing going on in Fayette County, they actually had 100% of their schools make AYP without cheating. It is amazing what good zoning and high property values/taxes will do for a school system. I just checked the MLS and in Fayette there are only 86 properties listed under $150K and 621 listed at over $300K. In Dekalb there are over 4000 properties listed at under $150K and about 1800 listed at over $300K. There is definitely a disproportionate number of “cheaper” houses in Dekalb compared to Fayette.

There aren’t many apartment complexes in Fayette(that I know of) although there are a few trailer parks and most of the kids live in two parent families with homes that are owned not rented.

Say what you want, but demographics do make a difference. Parents have to reinforce learning at home or kids will learn it isn’t important. Of course when I meet parents the same age as me that have grandchildren the same age as my children, I shudder to think of the lives those children are destined to lead.

Fayette actually turned down the graduation coach position and money offered by the state because they said they already had a high enough graduation rate and the money the state was offering wasn’t enough for the hoops they were required to jump through.

North Gwinnett, North Cobb and North Fulton Schools get a lot of attention, but the Fayette Schools are way better IMHO. And no, I don’t teach in Fayette, I just wish I did!

By catlady

December 16, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

teach2: I don’t know about racial bias but I know of a test we used to give in which the children had to identify an alley. Now, the rural mountain kids I work with had never SEEN an alley and had no concept for that. It was very far from their experience.

Side story: my own, bright upper middle class children were puzzled about garbage pickup. One day, visiting my parents in a suburban setting, my 4 year old son came running in to tell us SOMEONE WAS STEALING THE GARBAGE! So, with the next child, to forestall her terror of the garbage thieves, I warned her that she might be in the backyard playing and some men would drive up in a big truck and take her pawpaw’s garbage. She looked at me with very big eyes and said, “Why would they do that?!”

Sometimes we take for granted that all kids should know certain things which they may not have come even close to encountering in their lives.

By Elsie

December 16, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

to Ernest re: 10:44am comment from yesterday:

The movie was Stand and Deliver (1988) starring Edward James Olmos and Lou Diamond Phillips. It was based on the true story of Jaime Escalante at Garfield High in East LA.

Dang, now I need to go watch this movie again!

By Jess

December 16, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

To gwatl:

The cheating I spoke of happened before all the old teachers, who knew how to teach, left or retired. When you have the same teachers, same tests, different students, and lower scores, where do you think the problem lies? Over time, the declining quality of students (which includes their parents) in certain areas were the start of it, and their lousy performance scared off the decent teachers, who are now all in counties where the majority of parents and students take education more seriously. Meanwhile, the parents in the low-scoring areas are blaming the teachers for not being able to teach their now virtually unteachable children.

By Tom

December 17, 2008 8:48 AM | Link to this

Look at the caption under the picture..you guys caint even write using proper grammar.

By L D Hardy

December 17, 2008 11:51 PM | Link to this

Stop. We seem to be prejudguing the administrators and the students. But it seems somehow our tests may be the problem

By posterchild

December 18, 2008 9:05 AM | Link to this

Tom:

You beat me to the punch. What?!?!

By Private School Guy

December 18, 2008 10:01 AM | Link to this

There are only four things needed for success on the CRCT. Be able to read at your grade level, be able to do math at your grade level, to know how to go about solving problems and to know what people are talking about. Problem solving must be learned and knowing what people are talking about is often refered to as cultural literacy. If the students are deficit in cultural literacy it can and should be taught.

By dayna

December 19, 2008 8:11 PM | Link to this

Give these children a break. It’s possible that they all did very well the second time around. I think it all has to do with race and thats the bottom line.

By Supt. Lewis plays the race card

December 21, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Despite Supt. Crawford Lewis’ attempt to play the race card today, it was not clear, as he claims that “the writers share the opinion that urban students could not possibly perform this well in such a short time period.”

It was not the writers of the article who claim this, it was the experts they quoted who said “no known intervention” could produce these results for any group of students, urban, rural, rich, poor or otherwise.

And note, the experts in statistical analysis focused only on the fact that they failed; not that they were “urban”.

If these scores are legitimate as Lewis claims, with the budget crisis DeKalb is facing, maybe Lewis needs to cut the school year down to four weeks in the summer, since that’s all it takes to move students from failing to exceeding.

By Jay

December 21, 2008 4:15 PM | Link to this

Why were the urban schools ID’d and the other two not? Sounds fishy to me. What are the writers trying to hide?

By Fishy?

December 21, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

Sounds fishy? Tell you what sounds fishy. 32 students fail after nine months of instruction yet pass after a few weeks of “rigorous” intervention? Highly improbable. And when you add that 26 of the 32 exceeded, you come up with the same conclusion those who studied the data did. NO KNOWN INTERVENTION can create these gains.

Funny how superintendents like Lewis want to talk about “the data” until it implicates them. They they want to talk about anything but the data.