Get Schooled

By LB

December 2, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

Hmmmmmmmm, this is a tough call. There is no right or wrong answer. Keeping these colleges as is will preserve history which will continue to have value from now own. Combining the colleges will show good stewardship of the funds. Is it possible to combine on a temporary basis? Is it possible for students and alumni to do major fund raisers? These are just my thoughts.

By Jeff

December 2, 2008 10:08 AM | Link to this

The state should not fund racially segregated schools, nor schools that advertise themselves as being dominated by a particular race.

By TheBlogger

December 2, 2008 10:35 AM | Link to this

I really don’t see how these mergers will save any significant money.

In Albany, Darton and Albany State are on opposite sides of town. The facilities cannot be merged so there is no possible savings there. The classes are usually full, so there is no savings in faculty reduction.

The only possible savings is a reduction in administrative cost. However, isn’t this cost related to the size of school? So would combining two small colleges into one large one really save that much in administration?

By NoWay

December 2, 2008 10:48 AM | Link to this

I do not think in this day and age any school promoting itself as catering to any one race should receive ANY public funds. It is time to move on folks, HBCU has no place in todays culture.

By Ms. Writer

December 2, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

I have seen both schools and think that Savannah State would benefit from the merge. It is a poorly run school that would benefit from coming together with Armstrong Atlantic.

By BigTim43

December 2, 2008 11:07 AM | Link to this

NoWay - you need to do more research before making an asinine statement that HBCUs have no place in today’s culture. Until you realize what today’s culture is save that statement. The mission of HBCUs have outlasted generations of attitudes like yours. Another thing you should keep in mind is that HBCUs are not only for African American Students, they just make up the majority of the student body, like whites make up the majority of the student body at UGA.

By B. Killebrew

December 2, 2008 11:10 AM | Link to this

Um, HBCUs do not promote themselves as catering to one race. That’s why they are called Historically Black Colleges and Universities. They came into existence when there was no other alternative. HBCUs would love to have more diverse student populations…and most realize that that will lead to a more viable future.

NoWay and Jeff…y’all are missing the point…

By noneya

December 2, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

First off let’s clear something up. Do you even know what HBCU stands for? The H is Historically. That does not mean it still caters to one race and they definitely don’t “promote” or open their doors to one race. You probably don’t even know why they were created. I’ll give you a hint, a group of black people didn’t come together and say you know what we don’t want to go to those other schools. Let’s make our own.

My alma mater TSU in Nashville is an HBCU and it has a diverse student body make up. Other races are encouraged to apply at HBCUs and in a lot of cases they are awarded scholarships to get there.

Back to the matter at hand. I don’t see how Savannah and Armstrong can merge. They are fairly similair in size, have carved their own niche with their academic programs and have their own athletic programs. I can see strong opposition from both sides. This is an idea formulated by one man. He would have to come up with a detailed plan of how it will save money and how much money the mergers would save to see if it is a feasible move.

By Beautiful Black People

December 2, 2008 11:14 AM | Link to this

Well…..Ivory League has it’s place…..shouldn’t HBCU have it’s place too! hmmmmm…….

By Jeff

December 2, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

BigTim:

So UGA should be allowed - with no outcry from the NAACRAP - to advertise itself as an ‘HWCU’…

Having been in a 98% black area as a white man before, I can personally testify to the fact that you will NEVER see racism any more prevalent than when a large group of blacks gets together and there happens to be a white guy there - and it won’t be coming from the white guy.

By MikeyJ

December 2, 2008 11:21 AM | Link to this

Whatver Mister BigTim43. Think about this cultural possiblity. UGA promotes itself as a predominately white university and visits predominately white high schools to recruit students. Enough said? Let’s move on!

HBCU culture should be privately, not publicly funded.

By Point Blank

December 2, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

People only go to an HBCU because they know they couldn’t cut it at any other school.

And I’ve been around enough ‘graduates’ of these schools to know.

By DW

December 2, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

@Jeff:

To which schools are you referring? Savannah State and Albany State accept federal funds, so they HAVE to accept students regardless of ethnicity. Also, these schools are called “Historically” Black Colleges and Universities-meaning that, historically, they have had majority-black populations. However, this label shouldn’t discourage white, Asian, and Hispanic students from applying.

To any other person with lack of knowledge about HBCUs, please do your homework and keep your ignorant, silly, and immature comments to yourselves. Thank you.

By Jenni

December 2, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

First and foremost, I think people are confused about the meaning of HBCU. HBCUs are “Historically Black Colleges/Universities.” This just denotes the fact that in the days of segregation, these were the only schools that allowed black students. As a graduate of an HBCU, I know that first time that several of my classmates and professors were not black, but of all races. The title does not mean that the school is catering to one race, it is just a part of it’s history. As a matter of fact, HBCU’s usually work in the favor of non-black people because most offer “minority” scholarships to students who aren’t black and the GPA requirement is usually as low as a 2.5. I am proud of the school that I went to, and would be quite upset at the prospect of a merger. I’m sure if someone suggested a merger of Georgia and Georgia Tech there would be quite the outrage. Sounds like to me someone wants the dollars from these HBCU’s, because I’ve never heard of the schools that they are proposing to merge Albany State and Savannah State with.

By D

December 2, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

With the history of these colleges, there is no way that they should be combined. I’m a graduate of Florida A&M University and the board of regents in florida have been trying to merge FAMU and FSU for years (at least 20 if not more).

We all know why these colleges were separated, but with the rich histories behind it, there is no way that we should support any legislation to merge these schools to be cost effective. Most of these HBCUs are not intergrated with white students as well as other ethnic groups. This person needs to be removed from office, coming up with this crazy idea.

By Jenni

December 2, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

To Point Blank: I’m sure you have been around several HBCU graduates. I know you enjoy calling them “boss.” Now get back to work before I have you written up.

Aren’t white schools referred to as PWIs: Predominately White Institutions?

By SRR

December 2, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Why can’t the “mostly” white university merge with the HBCU ? The Board of Regents in Tennessee tried to do the same thing to TSU in the 70’s, the courts ruled against them !! TSU took over the UT downtown campus instead. TSU is still TSU with black and white students !! The history of the school still exists. No money will be saved !! Education is the last thing that should be cut..

By Nichole

December 2, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

As a former Savannah State student, I feel that a merger with Armstrong could be beneficial, but at the same time, take away history that lies within the school. There is a lot of historical significance within SSU, some that cannot be shared, or even matched with another college. There are a lot of HBCU’s nationwide that have rich history, an identity of their own, and a merger with a non-HBCU would destroy that idenity. Maybe if we had more supporters in the HBCU sector, we wouldn’t have to worry about a merger.

By TheBlogger

December 2, 2008 11:34 AM | Link to this

Ummm….. what is “Ivory League?”

By Tony

December 2, 2008 11:35 AM | Link to this

Let the market decide. The Board of Regents is the decision making body for Colleges and Universities. The legislature votes on the funding as a package and as of now, the BOR has had to meet the state budget cut requirements.

This question links to yesterday’s topic very nicely. The universities are able to draw on alumni for support and their foundations are fairly adept at raising funds. Students are to be expected to pay tuition for college and although a portion of this may be subsidized by the state, the state is not obligated in the same sense as it is to K-12 education.

By Reality Check

December 2, 2008 11:36 AM | Link to this

Point Blank@ 11:24

I am the product of an HBCU (Morehouse), and I can assure you that the 7 UGA grads that work FOR ME can barely carry my mail. This is not to say that all UGA grads are poor students, but the notion that we attend HBCU’s because we can’t cut it is just crazy. I turned down a chance to attend Duke University! I challenge you to put the quality of your education next to mine and see which is superior…. I didn’t think so

By DT

December 2, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Some people are so ignorant (Point Blank, Jeff and No Way).

My daughter goes to one of the top schools in the country which is also an HBCU (Howard University). One of her best friends was accepted to Yale University, but opted to go to Morehouse. They both graduated in the top 10% of their class from a majority white high school.

By Proud HBCU Grad

December 2, 2008 11:38 AM | Link to this

PoinT Blank: You couldn’t be so wrong. I choose to attend a HBCU at NC A&T SU and have a degree in Electrical Engineer. I was accepted to Steven’s Inst of Tech as well as received a scholarship for Notre Dame. Again, I decided to go to NC A&T SU for the peace of mind in knowing I would not have to deal with any racial issues while attending schoo. I can say this because my last year of High School was not spent in a High School setting but instead at NJIT. But to answer the question, a HBCU should not be merged with any other school. I would advise to make them a private institution before merging the schools.

By GAPeach

December 2, 2008 11:39 AM | Link to this

the valedictorian of morehouse in ‘08 was a white male. hbcus are not closed to people of other races. learn the history behind hbcus before you think that merging them is acceptable.

spelman ‘02

By noneya

December 2, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Ignorance runs rampant on these message boards. But what’s more important is this is another opportunity to flood your elected public officials with letters, phone calls and emails letting them know you are opposed to this idea.

By Mike D

December 2, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Theblogger,

The Ivory league is the school system back in Africa that teaches students how to murder elephants and rhinos to chop off their tusk to sell to the Chinese.

By John Coffey

December 2, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

The ignorance on this page is unbelievable. I graduated from two HBCUs, chossing to attend both after turning down scholarships from Emory and an Ivy League school. Among its many other accolades, my undergrad (Florida A&M) ties or beats Harvard on an annual basis in the pursuit of highly-prized National Merit Scholars. So, it’s not that these students can’t cut it elsewhere. Many (like me) choose to be in an environment that non-majorities are in every day and take for granted, or choose to be in an environment where they can focus on their studies without dealing with the type of racist double standards and utterances evidenced on this board. Both HBCUs I attended (and every one I’ve ever visited) were FAR more diverse than any school in the Georgia university system. Indeed, many HBCUs (e.g, Lincoln University, West Virginia State) are majority WHITE. UGA’s black student population is only 7%. Hopefully the uninformed among you who are complaining about the supposed lack of diversity at HBCUs are equally troubled by the nonexistent diversity at UGA and Georgia’s other research universities.

By Point Blank

December 2, 2008 11:43 AM | Link to this

Actually, they call ME ‘boss’.

I’m a prison guard.

By Separate is never equal

December 2, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

I seem to remember ‘separate but equal’ being struck down more than 50 yrs ago….

Integrate them.

By Rattler01

December 2, 2008 11:46 AM | Link to this

Point Blank, I am a graduate of Florida A&M Univ. I received acceptance letters from Univ of FL and Univ of Central FL but I still chose FAMU. I think you’re upset now because us HBCU grads are now your bosses.

To Save Money: merge Southern Polytechnic State University with Georgia Tech OR merge Kennesaw State with Georgia State!!!!!

By ENikki

December 2, 2008 11:47 AM | Link to this

PointBlank……..you atated that “People only go to an HBCU because they know they couldn’t cut it at any other school.

And I’ve been around enough ‘graduates’ of these schools to know.”

I am a graduate of Albany State University-an HBCU. I was also accepted into 5 other schools (only one other being an HBCU and one being the ususally more difficult UGA). I don’t play sports but I was offered academic scholarships to many other universities. I think that may just shoot down your theory.

By FYI

December 2, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

Interesting. Remember the reason HBCU’s were created is because some folks didn’t want blacks to be educated.

anyhoo, if its in the best interests of these particular 2 colleges to merge for financial reasons, fine. But I wouldn’t want to see all HBCU’s merged and lose their identity. Black’s don’t need any more of their history erased.

By Nichole

December 2, 2008 11:52 AM | Link to this

Along with my previous comment, I’m noticing the amount of ignorance that is being displayed on this comment-definitely to you, PointBlank. Know what you are talking about before you speak. I am was a graduate of one of the top 10 high schools in the country, our class had the BEST SAT scores in DeKalb County, and I also graduated with a 3.6 GPA. I got accepted into 5 SCHOOLS….my SAT scores broke 1000..and I applied to UGA and got denied. Because schools like UGA have such high SAT standards(and its not just a African American thing)…and because both of my parents went to an HBCU, I wanted to follow in their footsteps. Its a shame that you feel an HBCU is a fall back for those that can’t meet the criteria….what college did you attend, because you sound pretty ignorant right about now. Let’s not make this a racial thing, it didn’t start off as one, and definitely shouldn’t be discussed as one.

By steve

December 2, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

I grew up in Albany and have lived in Savannah. I think that the former is impossible and the latter is a good idea.

Darton College is a two year Junior college that is approximately 15 miles from ASU. Merging them makes no sense to me at all.

Also, I read the article and it mentioned that there were 3 HBCU in GA. What about Moorehouse? Does it not qualify for some reason?

By T

December 2, 2008 11:55 AM | Link to this

Ok. Jeff since you don’t want to fund schools that are dominated by a particular race, let’s not fund UGA or Tech. Either way it’s not fair to take away funds for an HBCU or a school that is dominated by white students.

By Point Blank

December 2, 2008 11:56 AM | Link to this

To those that were ‘accepted’ at non-HBCUs:

Ever heard of Affirmative Action??

Just because you were a minority and were accepted DOESN’T mean you were actually qualified…

By Get REAL

December 2, 2008 11:58 AM | Link to this

I attended a HBCU and was forced to learn much more than others based on the simple fact that being black means you have to be twice as smart just to compete. See, black people understand that we have to stay two steps ahead of everyone for an equal chance. It’s not fair but it’s life. On the other hand…..Mr. Point Blank, I suggest you grab a book, educate yourself, and learn. I know a few wardens and so I guess there’s a chance one is your “boss”.

By courtney

December 2, 2008 12:00 PM | Link to this

I think that this is not a good idea. Why not be the same on both sides. Let them suggest merging Georgia State with Georgia Tech. The Alumnae would be going crazy with this suggestion. I do not think that it should solely be based on finances. HBCU’s should remain seperate. Once they are merged, the historical aspect will be lost and the name will no longer be mentioned. There goes our history right out the window. They barely teach black history in schools today so do you honestly think they will teach the history of the HBCU’s if this merger will take place? No-the only history will be about the school it was merged with.

By Chris

December 2, 2008 12:01 PM | Link to this

This is a tough one. I think too many people are only looking at the HBCU side of the issue and there are many issues which I’d like to lay out. For the sake of simplicity I will use the Darton/Albany State proposal and we can assume that this situation is representative of SSU & Armstrong.

I think ultimately the solution is have these school operate in the black. If they can cover their own expenses - via tuition, alumni donors, or Fed. grants they can keep rolling. To help with this there are ways to cut costs they can adopt - energy efficiency (cut the dang computers off!) Larger class sizes (so they need fewer salaried professors), increased teaching loads if necessary, 4 day weeks, cuts in long distance travel (via conferences/athletics) Ultimately these are all of the things our public secondary schools are being forced to do so why not our universities If a school can’t operate in the black then they close/merge - whether they are an HBCU or UGA.

By John Coffey

December 2, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Georgia Tech…..6.4% black UGA….7.3% black Medical College of GA….9.3% black

And some of you are calling HBCUs non-diverse? Seriously, my grad school (which was at an HBCU) had a 25% non-black enrollment. There is no majority-white grad school in the same discipline in the entire country that can say it has a 25% minority enrollment. HBCUs are FAR more diverse than non-HBCUs. People like Point Blank are making the arguments they’re making for one reason only.

By Jeff

December 2, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

T:

I never said ‘dominated by a particular race’. I said ‘advertise themselves as dominated by a particular race’.

And embracing the ‘HBCU’ label is doing just that.

By RandolphCountyAdmin.

December 2, 2008 12:08 PM | Link to this

Yall never mind Jeff’s responses. He couldn’t handle a class full of young African-American kids so of course his perspective is going to be negative.

By courtney

December 2, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

I think this is a bad idea. Why not be consistent on both sides. Why not merge Georgia State with Georgia Tech? The Alumnae at both schools would have a fit if this was even suggested. Finances should not be the only reason. HBCU’s should remain separate. They barely teach black history now in schools. If the mergers take place, the history of the HBCU will not be discussed or taught. It will be the history of the school it merged with.

By AW

December 2, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

There is a lot, and I do mean a lot of misconception and sheer ignorance shared in some of these emails…I guess that’s why blogging is so popular, b/c it gives people a forum to discuss issues without having the credentials to do so. Now, working in higher education (namely Albany State University) for 4 years lends the credentials to speak on this subject. First, the BOR will not duplicate institutions that service the same region or target the same students. Two years ago Darton College (which is a two-year institution) applied to have there status raised to a 4-year status, and the BOR did not approve it. Mainly because there would be a reproduction of services, and the city isn’t large enough to have two(2) four-year institutions. In my opinion, this boils down to sheer “good ol’ boy” politics. Another thing you bloggers may not know, all the public schools that make up the USG have to fight over the same dollars that get sent out. Since our “flagship” institutions ( UGA/ GA Tech) get the majority of the money, the smaller institutions have to share what’s left……almost like the issues concerning all the other cities/towns that suffer because all of GA’s resources go to Atlanta

By mystery poster

December 2, 2008 12:10 PM | Link to this

A grammar lesson for Jenni

When making HBCU plural, the correct form is HBCUs.

When using the possessive form of it, the correct form is its “a part of its history, ” not “a part of it’s history.”

By Leah

December 2, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Jeff - I’m thinking that the group of Black people you were around just didn’t like you! It probably had very little to do with the fact that you’re White! It might’ve been more about your sheer ignorance, sense of self-importance and your arrogance.

Just a thought…

By Patrick

December 2, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Say Tennessee State may not have merged but you get the picture. Tough times call for smart decisions!

By mm

December 2, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Ok we are saving tax dollar good idea all for it, But lets merge the the white school into the black school for change.

By John Coffey

December 2, 2008 12:12 PM | Link to this

Point Blank-

So all non-minorities who get accepted at majority schools are qualified, right? No legacy privileges, no donor privileges, it’s all one big meritocracy, right? I won’t even get into your long-disproven attempt to equate affirmative action with lower qualifications. If your affirmative action program allows the unqualified in, you’re doing it wrong. Your ignorance is astounding, and I shan’t waste any more breath with you.

By MM

December 2, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Steve, Morehouse is a private school.

By steve

December 2, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

Chris,

you wrote, “If ASU and Darton merge into ASU- there will be resentment among the white community. That stinks, I know, but we do live in the deep south. There will be hard feeling that the blacks came in and took us over -“

That would make sense if we were talking about two 4 year colleges with similar academic standards. However, Darton college is a community college. It was called Albany Junior College until a few years ago. Albany State University is an ACTUAL university with higher academic standards and one that produces an actual 4 year degree.

I think that the students at Darton would LOVE to go from attending a community college to an actual university.

“you know why they call it community college? cause anyone from the community can get in” -Chris Rock.

The real problem is the logistics. The two schools are not close and money wouldn’t be saved by their merger.

I DO completely agree with you that these schools should either become profitable or close. If you can make the money to stay open, too bad.

Steve

By j

December 2, 2008 12:19 PM | Link to this

please read up on the 14th Amendment…start with cases involving VMI, UGA, Michigan Law School, and UC which all deal with programs supporting URMs. URMs (under represented minorities) have programs in order to create diversity at schools where diversity is lacking and the Supreme Court supports these programs. And yes, these are all state funded schools. As long as your goal is to attack stereotypes and create diversity in the workforce in underrepresented fields, it is ok to cut the more qualified applicants. But, is it the right thing to do? Hey, you have better grades, better standing, and a better work ethic, but I am going to cut you so I can create “diversity.” Whatever.

By Chantrice Rogers Savannah State University Graduate BS Biology 01

December 2, 2008 12:20 PM | Link to this

I am a graduate of the oldest HBCU in Georgia …Savannah State University. We are rich in history and produce QUALITY graduates that compete on EVERY level. I have yet to see an argument that would make me agree to a merger and I am not sure that there is one. I am sure there are some other universities in Georgia struggling but it is not being suggested that they merge. Why always the HBCU’s?????? Hmmmmm

All universities have their issues it is just that at an HBCU it is highlighted more. Some of these comments are ignorant and I wonder if those making them have any type of education.

For those of you who think that HBCU graduates do not excel, I will introduce you to my friends whom have just finished Med and Vet school. Then again maybe you would like to talk to those that are pursuing PhD’s In Genetics and Microbiology. We could sit down and have a chat with some that are RUNNING some of the top companies that you patronize. Better yet you can talk to me…. I currently work as a Research Fellow at the CDC and I also hold a graduate degree from Mercer University School of Medicine.

I also was in class with all races at Savannah State and I took classes from professors that put NO LIMITATIONS on what I could accomplish. That has yet to been seen at ALL universities. Mercer University is a quality school but I do not feel that I received less of an education at Savannah State. In some instances Savannah State had me better prepared than some of the other students. Do not down play and education from an HBCU. We work hard …just as hard as students at non HBCU’s. We are still around because there is still a need for MINORTIES to be educated without second guessing should they be in school…or can you achieve…or will you achieve.

Savannah State University You Can Get Anywhere from Here!!!!!!!!

P.S…SSU Alumni Love and SUPPORT Their ALMA MATER. We will not go quietly

By Corde

December 2, 2008 12:21 PM | Link to this

Wow Point Blank!!!-

Really? You are an idiot. I am sure if you work in a prison, you come across quite a few people with diverse backgrounds. I am sure you see HBCU grads, Ivory League grads, only high school grads, etc. Why do people make blanket statements based on minimal information? Usually they make these a*-umptions when they are biased (in your case, racist) and uneducated themselves. Keep your nonsense to yourself, read the research, and finish middle school IDIOT!!!!

Spelman 98’

By Jeff

December 2, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Leah:

Like me or not, they were BLATANTLY and OVERTLY racist in their attitudes, actions, and words.

Had the situation been reversed, you would have had every black ‘leader’ in America on the scene denouncing the actions of the majority.

As it is, their silence became DEAFENING.

By Randall

December 2, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

Steve @ 11.55AM: Morehouse and the schools at the AUC are PRIVATE. The BOR has no authority over these schools, as they are not taxpayer funded.

By TheBlogger

December 2, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

I thought it was obvious that this question was race-baiting. Guess not…

Ms. Rogers You may not go quietly (as you state), but please, just go. I don’t think that this was intended to be a cheer leading session for any particular college.

By steve

December 2, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

Your personal situation does not make for an accurate sample.

I also live in a black community. I am white. I have lived here for 5 years and in all that time, I have had exactly one incident where someone treated me poorly because of my ethnicity.

In general I find my neighbors and friends to be less bigoted that the neighbors I had when I lived in a white community.

Steve

By bdw

December 2, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

For you who feel that no college should be funded that advertises itself as catering to a particular race, what about the ones that are of a particular race but do not advertise as such—but the results are the same. i.e., the Chancellors are white, the bands are white, the music is white, the bands’ steps are white, the cheerleaders are white, the coaches are white, the administrators and profs are white, etc. Should these institutions receive funding—seeing that the results are the same relative to clientele, activities, and personnel?? think about it and bre honest!!

By John Coffey

December 2, 2008 12:31 PM | Link to this

J-

You’re about half right. As a lawyer, I’m somewhat familiar with the 14th amendment and the cases you referenced. Those cases simply say that race can be one of many factors, but cannot be THE determinative factor for admission. Affirmative action has NEVER required the hiring or admission of ANY unqualified person. Again, if your program does, you’re doing it wrong and breaking the law. But, what’s even more telling about your point is that, as is always the case with people making your argument, you automatically assume that a “more qualified” white applicant has lost a space to a “lesser qualified” black applicant. People never consider that “lesser qualified” WHITE applicants who are admitted under a host of preference programs may have taken that spot (as was the case in at least one of the instances you cited). Nope, it’s always a “lesser qualified black applicant.” That says more to me about the person complaining than it does about the school.

By Truth Hurts

December 2, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

I was a National Merit Scholar, a Superintendent’s Scholar, scored very high on my SATs, recruited by Harvard, Penn, Columbia, Brown, NYU, UCLA, Stanford, and over 150 other schools. Neither UGA nor GA Tech ever showed any interest in recruiting me. I was a candidate for the Naval Academy and was awarded a full ROTC scholarship. I’ve been accepted to every school to which I have applied since graduating high school. I completed my undergraduate degree with honors, my MBA at Emory with honors, and I will receive my second Masters degree in Spring ‘09 from GSU with honors. In Fall ‘09, I expect to begin studies towards a doctorate in business (I have not decided on which school).

My undergraduate alma mater? MOREHOUSE COLLEGE. Historically black colleges and universities were created because of segregation in education. They continue to exist because they continue to provide educational opportunity. Remember: its not the ivy on the exterior walls that distinguish a college but the quality of the education inside.

By steve

December 2, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

One more point about the difference between Darton and ASU just so everyone is clear.

This would be akin to an idea to merge Georgia Peremeter College with Kennesaw State University.

No one would think that those two schools are on a level enough academic playing field to consider a merger.

By Rattler

December 2, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

HBCU Grads…, don’t dignify the comments of the ignorant by justifying anything to anyone who does not share our experience. As a native of Albany, I know that Albany Jr. College (now Darton) was created so that others could have a prepatory program for UGA without going to ASC (now ASU). The wishes of the founders of Darton were to keep Albany separate in every way. ASU was founded more than 50 years before Darton, so close the 2 yr prep school and bring it under ASU. This will not happen because regardless of it being logical, the Board of Regents would probably start talking non-sense about Darton’s heritage.

I am a proud graduate of Florida A & M University. I will never give up on HBCU’s anywhere because before we intergrated with PWI’s, HBCU’s had medical schools, law schools and engineering schools. In a move to delete OUR heritage, those who despise BLACK institutions call for their closure or blending.

If you don’t know, Blacks graduate at a higher rate at HBCU’s than at PWI’s and its not because the courses are less difficult. It has a lot to do with the courses being more interesting and world-renowned faculty who care if you learn.

In closing, don’t believe the hype. Dr. Carter G. Woodson, the second African-American to graduate Harvard wrote, “The Mis-Education of the Negro”. One thing that he reminded us in that great work is that Harvard has ruined more Negroes than whiskey. Never, ever, look to anyone than ourselves for anything. Lifting As We Climb. FAMU ALUMNI!!

By Sam

December 2, 2008 12:39 PM | Link to this

Ditto Jeff at 10:08 AM.

Matters like this often bring to mind the wording on some protest signs the Memphis garbage strikers carried during the days that lead up to the assignation of Dr. King.

The signs read: I AM A MAN.

Not I AM A “BLACK” MAN. Not I AM AN “AFRICAN-AMERICAN” MAN. Just MAN, a fellow human being.

Regardless of the merger talk, labeling or otherwise speaking of any public funded institution in terms of a particular “race” (whatever that is) should be discontinued.

Of course, the label “HBCU” promotes segregation — today, less than complete segregation but segregation nonetheless — while preserving and implying being entitled to special recognition and treatment because of historical victimization — that is, slavery. Well, slavery is over.

By tiff

December 2, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

Pooky, The problem is not the school a person attends, it’s the parents or the person themselves. For instance take yourself, if your parents had realized early on that you were retarded they could have gotten you the help you needed at an early age, instead they waited until it was too late. Most parents with special needs kids are loving and caring enough to notice when there child needs special care. But on the other hand, if the parents are retarded too, like yours probably are, they may have seen you as normal, and let you continue and become like them. And I hope your not bragging about being a prison guard. After my brother had spent 16 years in the Marines he retired and became a prison guard. He quit after less than a year. He now works for Coca Cola, and is making more money than you can ever imagine. So when you want to brag about the job you have, at least wait until you have one worth bragging about. “BOSS”.

By Point Blank

December 2, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

As we saw with this election, blacks care more about the color of your skin than with qualifications.

By hmmmm

December 2, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Rattler:

I’ll have to tip off the Albany Gang Squad… you are clearly affiliated with the Rattler gang…

By Nichole

December 2, 2008 12:49 PM | Link to this

Amen to Chantrice, I will be supporting SSU to the fullest. Its a shame that we can’t even enjoy our education without the ignorance of people in today’s society.

PointBlank, you are killing me…and I sincerely hope you know that its a shame you live in today’s society with that kind of attitude. YES, it does mean that we are qualified because we got into several different schools. They do have standards…. And its funny, not once did I hear you mention WHAT COLLEGE YOU ATTENDED, NOR DEGREE THAT YOU OBTAINED. And you’re a prison guard…get a real job.

By SSU Alum

December 2, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

Savannah State University should acquire Armstrong State for the following reasons:

1890 Savannah State (then Georgia State College) was founded by the State of Georgia as the first land grant college for African Americans in Georgia.

1959 Armstrong State became a Junior College under the Board of Regions so that White students would not have to attend a HBCU.

To further the segragated policy of the Board of Regions, in 1964 Armstrong was made a four year institution.

If we are to end the segragated policies of the Board of Regions, the rich history of Savannah State should be preserved and Amrstrong should become apart of SSU.

By Faye

December 2, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

I totally disagree with this comment: “I do not think in this day and age any school promoting itself as catering to any one race should receive ANY public funds. It is time to move on folks, HBCU has no place in todays culture”. The experience rec’d at HBCU’s is valuable to many of our young students. Our history has been set aside for too long, these university doors are open to ALL, as evidence by the valedictorian from Morehouse College this year who was white. I pray this proposal does not happen.

By John Coffey

December 2, 2008 12:57 PM | Link to this

Sam-

Now YOU make an interesting point. Let’s cut funding for those schools that “label” or “promote” themselves as black, or Native American (you DO know there are Native American colleges, don’t you?) or whatever. That’s the solution. Do away with the funding based on the label. Of course, we can maintain funding for those schools that are historically (and currently) disproportionately white but that don’t label or promote themselves in that manner, even though they still employ measures to maintain that status. You’re right. It’s the labels, and not the substance, that’s the problem.

(Sorry, I didn’t see a format code for “this text will be sarcastic”).

By scrappy

December 2, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

Howard is private and HBCU? They have a grad program I am interested in, but I am white, and was told by others that I wouldn’t even be accepted. Is this true? Can someome explain? Being from up north, this whole HBCU thing is new to me…

By point blank 2

December 2, 2008 12:59 PM | Link to this

Point Blank, if you are a prison guard, that tells me alot about your message. Ignorance is-ignorance does. Get a real job…………… that stupid s** is rubbing off on you………..

I am a proud graduate of a HBCU-and certainly think a merger is a bad idea. The history of HBCU’s are so significant to our race as a people, and how dare those who never wanted to sit in the classroom with us, suggest this stupidity. I swear, Georgia just real can come up with some bright ideas. You merge these schools and you keep producing PRISION GUARDS! NO WAY-NO HOW- NO MERGER!

Point blank—————-be sure you vote today! idiot!

By Nakia Miller

December 2, 2008 1:02 PM | Link to this

I think this would be a bad idea.

By Speed Racer

December 2, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

I think Morehouse and Clark Atlanta should merge so that they can combine their football talent. Better odds of having a great team.

By tiff

December 2, 2008 1:07 PM | Link to this

P.S., the prison guard comment was for the well-educated and highly successful Point Blank. You all know the prison guard. Between all the prison guards and all the people I know who have graduated from HBCU’s (my daughter included). The people from the HBCU’s are more educated and have better paying, gratifying jobs in well respected fields. And what are you a prison guard. So Point Blank tell all of us dumb a’s again what is your point. Should we all aspire to be like you.

By John Coffey

December 2, 2008 1:09 PM | Link to this

Scrappy-

What you were told is absolutely wrong. It’s just like any other application process. You CAN apply to Howard, you may certainly be accepted, and you may even qualify for a “minority” scholarship (as a white student at an HBCU). A point that is often lost is that HBCUs were set up to combat discrimination and do not discriminate themselves, although they do stay true to their primary mission which is to provide an education to those who might not otherwise have the opportunity. Both HBCUs I attended had students of all races and several nationalities. So, go for it and best of luck to you!

By Point Blank

December 2, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this

To those who are asking:

I didn’t mention EXACTLY what I do at the prison, only that I am a ‘guard’.

I happen to be directly involved with putting high-tech surveillance in prisons, which is understandable considering my EE degree from MIT…

And y’all would not BELIEVE some of the really cool gear that I happen to be on the cutting edge of both its development and application!

By Truth Hurts

December 2, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

To Jeff @ 10:08 and Sam @ 12:39 -

I wish well-intentioned, reasonable people like yourselves were around when the state funded HBCUs were formed. I’m sure both you would have been among the first to stand up demanding the other state funded universities cast aside their whites-only policies to allow educational access for blacks. If not then, certainly when public school desegregation became a legal reality, I’m sure both you would have championed the transfer of all students from the state funded HBCUs into UGA or GA Tech.

Well, unfortunately, enough well-intentioned, reasonable people like yourselves were not around to desegregate the state’s public universitiy system. Unfortunately, a large contingent of the state’s legislative leadership was not so far removed from the attitudes that existed during slavery (oh, that was so long ago) or jim crow (does anyone even remember those days?) to desegregate public colleges and universities they established to intentionally separate blacks from whites in higher education. Unlike you two well-reasoned individuals, they did not believe in equal access to education for all regardless of creed or color.

That is what you believe, correct?

It is intellectually lazy to not apply historical context to today’s current situation.

And Sam, I believe you were the first to mention slavery. You will find no victims here, just well-informed HBCU graduates that have the capacity to apply historical context to current situations.

By who cares

December 2, 2008 1:24 PM | Link to this

NO! Keep them apart. neither wants the other’s culture and if someone teaches a different idea-all heck cold brerak loose. these colleges were set up for the specific purpose of not having to deal with alleged racism. these colleges are for people that want to be with their own kind and not forced to have to “deal with” rap blaing all over the place or hiphop. these schools have a purpose-keep them that way.

By DT

December 2, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

Yes Scrappy, Howard University has students of all races and nationalities. Definitely look into it and apply. It’s a great university for higher learning.

By New First Lady needed

December 2, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

I think my HBCU’s new president should merge with another wife. Love him, but she is NOT pleasant. Sorry. There; I said it. I just needed to vent about that somewhere. Otherwise, no merger, not of ATL HBCU’s anyway. The history might get lost.

Remember, Morehouse had a white valedictorian this year, so whoever wants to can attend. But I do understand how the continued use of racially divisive labels might feel, but none of these black schools would have come to be if whites hadn’t been so arrogant and denied blacks access to schools, etc.

Back to class!

By Dee Dee

December 2, 2008 1:31 PM | Link to this

It’s kind of funny, when it is necessary to make changes and “save money”, Black people are called upon to make the “sacrifice”. You wanna know why? The deep seated hate in Georgia politics still exist, which is no surprise. Those small minded politicians never thought much of HBCU’s anyway. HBCU’s are needed and necessary and should continue to exist without merging.

By concerned citizen

December 2, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

speaking as an involved participant in the pending mergers of several Technical Colleges around the state I can state first-hand that there is no cost savings from these mergers, in fact the initial costs are overwhelming and will take years, if ever, to recoup.

This decision will have a detrimental effect on the Technical Colleges involved as faculty and staff morale plunge, communities are outraged and the net result is the destruction of quality institutions.

The same can be expected if this proposal is forced down the throats of the various institutions just as the Tech college mergers have been forced down their throats with no chance for counter discussions.

By threedeep

December 2, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Another Rattler is in the house with a comment. I e-mailed Seth Harp at: seth.harp@senate.ga.gov To express my disgust with this veil attempt to close down HBCU’s. Saying HBCU’s are no longer relevant is like saying the AME church is no longer relevant and everyone should join the UMC. I asked him is he going to propose removing the tax exempt status from all of the Historical Black Churches that formed because whites did not allow blacks in the “house of the Lord” years ago. That is the logic rep. Harp is using. HBCU’s continue to produce the greatest amount of AA college graduates. How about investing in these schools the amount of $$ that is invested in building prisons. Which makes more sense, working to create a productive member of society or foster an environment for tax payers to take care of a person for 5, 10, 20 years?

PS. - Jeff I do not know what fills you with so much digust but you need to get some help. Obama’08 - Yes We Did!

By E in the ATL

December 2, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

I used to work at Savannah State University, and I was in a meeting where the (former) president told a group of people, “SSU is a historically predominantly black school, and it will always be a predominantly black school.” That way of thinking is not 2008. In my opinion, state universities should accept the most qualified students who apply for admission…not based on color. Not now. This isn’t the ’60s. We’re all equal so let’s act like it.

By jim d

December 2, 2008 1:49 PM | Link to this

I have no opinon regarding the proposed mergers other than to say the decision will be one of politics, not of race or finances.

By RMIll

December 2, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

I so disagree with this merger, these school mean so much to our community and have a special place in our history. I understand saving money but we have to look at other ways to save. Nothing is more important than our children education it is the only way to somewhat even the playing field and compete in this day and time.

By Voice of Reason

December 2, 2008 1:56 PM | Link to this

Truth Hurts, you are speaking the truth [your 1:23 PM post]. Love it.

By Anderson

December 2, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

There has been a rumor going for the past couple of years that Georgia State University may merge with or take over Morris Brown College. GSU would then have East and West campuses.

By Chantrice Rogers SSU 01'

December 2, 2008 2:12 PM | Link to this

To: E in the ATL

If you worked at SSU then you know there are students from all races there. Why is it so bad the we want to keep our university an HBCU and keep our history and legacy alive. I want my children, if the wish, to be able to attend the same university that I did. Just Like Yale, Harvard, UGA and Tech Grads….others can and do attend but leave the insitution the way it is….GEESH

By tiff

December 2, 2008 2:14 PM | Link to this

Point Blank, as a matter of fact you did exactly mention what you did in the prison. You said you are a guard, so stop trying to convince us now that you are this big high-tech MIT graduate, just because some of the bloggers called you out. Well, uh i’m a guard but I graduated with an EE from MIT. Remember you said the prisoners refer to you as BOSS. Well the prisoners don’t interact with the well-educated, high tech guys who install those systems. And the people who install those systems are contractors not prison guards, remember you first stated you were a guard.

By jim d

December 2, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

I am truly amazed at the number of people blogging here of different races that feel separate but equal is ok.

What the hell are you folks thinking?

Until such time as we put this type of archaic thinking to rest and accept that we are truly only one race (the human race) racial tensions will only multiply.

By Tired of the IGNORANCE

December 2, 2008 2:21 PM | Link to this

Soooo let me get this right? You want to merge, out of all the schools in this state those four school to “save money”? Aren’t there a few other things this state could do to “save money”. Look, this has been going on for a very long time now and it will NEVER happen. This has absolutely nothing to do with race. Kids today have been going to integrated schools for so long that it would not be a problem. The problem here is that the HBCU’s is something of pride to my race when my great grandparents, and grandparents were denied the opportunity to get an education.

I am tired of the ignorance and the arrogance of some of the people that comment on a subject that they have not one clue about. If you don’t know what you’re talking about in the first place why talk? If you’re under some impression that HBCU’s cater to one race I pray for you because that’s NOT the case. If anything HBCU’s have tried to cater more to other races to diversify their schools.

I can’t stand it that every time a topic like this is posted that you get these ignorant comments made like these people can’t understand why an HBCU was formed, and then you get the other ignorant comments from people talking about having a white this or a white that. Get this through your head. If your great great grandparents, great grandparents, and maybe even your grandparents did not decide to deny equal rights to mine then maybe we wouldn’t be celebrating and taking pride in JET magazine, or Miss Black America, or yeah our HBCU’s. So get over it and accept the reality that history did happen.

By Moving on

December 2, 2008 2:25 PM | Link to this

Before we start casting stones, no single institution is any greater or worse than the other. I shudder to think what schools these current CEO’s matriculate from that have caused today’s economic melt-down!

HBCU’s were necessary 40+ years ago. They have successfully proven their purpose and have graduated many world known leaders such as MLK. But in 2008, if we have learned nothing else from the past election, is that it’s time for a change. It’s time to re-evaluate the necessity of such institutions and if their is a positive impact on students learning in one predominate culture and then migrating to work in a diverse culture.

As an African-American who works in a diverse work-place, I don’t see any benefits to being educated in a segregated school. I am also tired of seeing Blacks in White schools only during Football and Basketball season. Then when these same athletes turn pro-, in the news for harassing or stalking a ‘white girl’ because they interacted with them all through college and don’t see the difference.

We are One Nation..and we need to start progressing toward unifying any institutions that discourage that stance.

Anyone still mad about the civil war; leave. I am sick of hearing about ‘patriotism, and love of country’ when this same said country was divided over this same issue of race.

The nation has finally spoken; WE ARE THROUGH WITH THE DIVISIONS and RACISM. It costs too much to be that stupid, ignorant and blind. While we fight amongst ourselves over this, other countries are seeking to destroy US.

MOVING RIGHT ALONG….

By SSU c/o '95

December 2, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

I have seen both schools and think that Savannah State would benefit from the merge. It is a poorly run school that would benefit from coming together with Armstrong Atlantic.

Ms. Writer, did YOU ever attend Savannah State? If not, why do you speak of which you have no, or very distorted, knowledge?

During my undergraduate years, I had the opportunity to attend both Savannah State and Georgia College and State University (formerly known as Georgia College). During the short time that I matriculated at Georgia College, I found that this predominately “white” school was in no way superior to Savannah State. Although I was actually from Milledgeville, I felt like a stranger at Georgia College. Also, some of my professors and instructors there seemed to have no clude. After two quarters, I retreated hastily back to Savannah State.

I would also like to point out that while at Savannah State, the administration was available and ready to mix with the students. At Georgia College, I NEVER saw the president or any other administrators in person at all.

So, to any misguided and misinformed people—of ANY race—who believe that HBCUs are inferior, or, in the case of this blog, should merge with HWCUs, just know that these colleges are more valuable to our society than you’ll ever know.

One question: Since they are so close geographically, why can’t Georgia Tech and Georgia State University merge? Like Arsenio Hall said back in da day, this is a thing that makes me wanna go, “Hmmmm.”

(Chantrice Rogers, I love ya, alum, but Morris Brown is actually the oldest HBCU in Georgia. Savannah State is the oldest public HBCU in Georgia.)

By another HBCU hater

December 2, 2008 2:32 PM | Link to this

for those of you that believe that your HBCU is a good school, why do the rankings almost always put the schools in bottom brackets? how do you think we on the outside look at your school when we see average SAT scores that are some of the lowest in the state, average GPAs that are some of the lowest in the state and rankings that are the lowest in the nation. Putting Morehouse aside (it is one of the top schools in the nation, in my opinion), your stories of success seem to be exceptions rather than the rule.

Now, I hope that the alumni and friends of these schools fight for them. I really do, as they represent a source of pride (from what I gather from these chain), but to argue that the education you receive is on par with other schools does not seem to fit.

Also, GT cannot merge with UGA because GT is a college and UGA is a high school. does not work.

By jsmooth

December 2, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

This conversation is interesting. The funny thing about it is that if you look through history with merging to save money it usually takes many many years before the said savings are ever realized. Also the cost of the merger itself can be stifling. The military has a history of closing bases and in the process not complete understanding the long term consequences of these closures. Same can be said with regards to HBCU’s.

These schools have community footprints that will be deminished because of the financial ramifications of these moves.

And why not be called an HBCU. Is that not what it is? Why would you deny an institution funding because of it historical significance? I am just a little confused by some of the arguments that are going on here. Is the problem that its called an “HBCU”?

For those that are wondering about the BLACK part of that lets put this to rest once and for all. The “Black” college was not the one that institutionally discriminated against other ethic groups.

By williamtheignorant

December 2, 2008 2:35 PM | Link to this

I say close them all. I work with college grads and they are lazy and really do not know that much. After a 2yr degree its only experience that matters where the rubber meets the road.

By Chantrice Rogers SSU 01'

December 2, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

Thanks SSU c/o 95….I stand corrected…

By Concerned Citizen 2

December 2, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Threedeep: I’m glad to see you emailed your rep. All of us that oppose these mergers should do the same and move into action. We need to stop wasting our intelligent blogs on some of these idiots.

By SSU c/o '95

December 2, 2008 2:49 PM | Link to this

I say close them all. I work with college grads and they are lazy and really do not know that much. After a 2yr degree its only experience that matters where the rubber meets the road.

Hahaha! Williamtheignorant, I just had to laugh at that one. To some degree and for some jobs, you are right.

By SSU Grad and Proud

December 2, 2008 2:53 PM | Link to this

To: another HBCU Hater; Stories of success seem to be exception and not the rule….please….

You are right some of the students do not have the high SAT scores or the astounding GPA’s and if not for unviersitys like Albany and SSU they may not have had a chance at a real career. Please do not be fooled by the measures that are in place so that only a few can excel…. Come take a class at SSU or ASU and you will know that me measure up….

BTW…I train Emory,Tech,Vanderbilt,and UGA Grads that have the bench knowledge of a Fifth Grader…but thanks to those GREAT SAT scores and GREAT GPA’s they have a Biology Degree from Emory…give me a break..

HBCU grads can work and function in the real world…unlike many graduates of your IVY or so called TOP School….Our schools are overlooked for funding and much of anything else which helps to keep us at the bottom of those list you speak of…

but please know that the success NO EXCEPTION

By GaVoter

December 2, 2008 2:54 PM | Link to this

Just today Obama promised to bailout wasteful states with huge budget deficits. And guess which states have the biggest.. So why should Gerogia now bother to merge schools and/or do any of the other cost cutting techniques we generally use? I mean…, is Obama not going to send conservative states like Georgia a fair share of that bailout money??

By Darryl

December 2, 2008 2:59 PM | Link to this

End racial segregation in our schools!

By Blue Devil

December 2, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

I applied to Morehouse twice. Once as an African-American…my dad is from South Africa, where I was born, the second time as…..a whitey. Clearly, the second app was rejected in favor of the first even though both had the same transcript, but different names. These racist institutions have outlived their usefulness.

Btw, I went to Duke instead of that crappy school.

By InterestingDiscussion

December 2, 2008 3:05 PM | Link to this

Mr. Coffey, I agree that it is a shame that there is no formatting to indicate that certain text should be read as sarcastic. Certainly that must be the intent of those who continue to suggest that UGA and Tech merge or that Kennesaw State and Georgia State merge, since it is ridiculous to suggest said merges. Not ridiculous because of the demographics at those institutions, but ridiculous because the majors and courses of study, as well as the location of these institutions, make the suggestions of mergers ludicrous. Mr. Coffey, you make excellent points and it is a pleasure to read your articulate and well-thought out arguments. I do have a question, though, regarding what I see as a delta in your logic. In an earlier post, you stated, “Georgia Tech…..6.4% black UGA….7.3% black Medical College of GA….9.3% black

And some of you are calling HBCUs non-diverse? Seriously, my grad school (which was at an HBCU) had a 25% non-black enrollment.” I think it is unfair (and faulty logic) to cite only the black enrollment percentages at several state institutions, yet cite “non-black enrollment” at your HBCU graduate school, since “non-black enrollment” should include all races other than black. I would encourage you to tally the numbers of all “non-white enrollment” at the state institutions you cited; I hope you would agree that that would be a much more fair comparison of the racial make-up at state institutions.

By Hurricane

December 2, 2008 3:20 PM | Link to this

This may come as a shock to some of you on this blog, but several HBCU’s (Howard, Hampton, Morehouse, Spelman, Tuskegee, and Florida A&M just to name a few) enjoy stronger national academic reputations than many of their neighboring PWC’s. HBCU’s were necessary when blacks were’nt allow to attend school with whites, they are necessary now, and will always be necessary.

If you are going to talk about merging colleges and universities, make it a complete, across the board effort, where every school that has another state supported university that’s nearby is reviewed, not just a handfull of schools.

By Aggie Pride

December 2, 2008 3:23 PM | Link to this

The first question that should be asked is what would be the name of the universities. HBCU’s were not just initially instituted because of segregation but as land grant institutions. All HBCU’s have integrated campuses, HBCU is simply a category that is given because of their initial purpose. Being a graduate of North Carolina A&T State University in the early 90’s. A majority of my professors were not black and I had several white classmates. Why not MENTION TO COMBINE NON HBCU’s with one another? HBCU’s is a clear distinction of our past, present and future that is a clear reminder of what can be accomplished through education. Without these universities a majority of blacks would not have the opportunity of post secondary education. Their would be non Ronald McNair’s or Jesse Jackson’s

By SSU Alum

December 2, 2008 3:24 PM | Link to this

As an alum this is not something of surprise to any of us. The idea of merging Armstrong with an HBCU which sits on the most prime property in the county has alwasy been discussed. The Board of Regents has allowed Armstrong to encroach on the academic territory of Savannah State for years. The campus of Armstrong was never intended to be more than a commuter campus that serviced professional students. With the stealing ofthe successful and lucratvie education program of Savannah State and giving SSU an mediocre, underdeveloped business program the plan had begun. The cultures of the campus, the goals and the relationship within the community are to distinct to develop a cohesive program. Yes, SSU like other institutions are dealing with budget issues, but the enrollment is growing and in comparison to other larger institutions the growth over the last few years is much greater. The State has failed to fund SSU accordingly. The Regents and state should tread very lightly with this idea. There will be a national backlash against the state that may impact the economy much more than the current budget shortfall.

By estoy2u

December 2, 2008 3:31 PM | Link to this

Mergers can mean different things…but basic to be considered is administration, core curricula and faculty deployment. A transparency without any visible physical movements other than logos, mascots that are usually absorbed by the larger institution or agreed upon by consensus of boards and student bodies.

By Sunday

December 2, 2008 3:45 PM | Link to this

There are a lot of other ways that money can be saved before merging colleges should even be considered. I worked for a USG school and trust me, there is more fat in state-run institutions than you would believe. And that’s across the board, not just in the University System. I have worked at several other private institutions and when I tell you that the state institution had more fat than the ones that were private, I am not exaggerating. For example, when I worked at one private institution, we were always very conscientious about spending, even down to office supplies. At the state institution, it was like, “Let me know if you need anything, ok?” It was crazy. There were so many unnecessary positions, folks who were getting paid to do nothing just because they had been there since dirt was new; it was absolutely ridiculous.

Anyone with a business mind will tell you that when you are looking to save money, close proximity of locations shouldn’t be the decisive factor. These institutions cater to different markets. It would be different if this senator was saying that enrollment was down at both schools, both schools had the same programs, etc., but that isn’t what’s being said here. It’s not really clear what the justification and motivation is for this decision. Seems to me like somebody’s just trying to take a swipe at the HBCUs.

To the idiots on the blog saying that HBCUs are discriminatory, try this analogy on for size. You know how people always say, “Why are all the black kids sitting together in the lunch room?” I’m always irked when I hear that. The way I see it, all of the black kids couldn’t sit together in the lunch room if some of the white kids would come over and sit with them. But the burden is always placed on the black kids. And it’s not that the white kids really want the black kids to come and sit at their table; it’s the notion that the black kids could care less about sitting at the white kid’s table that irks the white kids. You see, when someone makes an alternative choice, such as choosing to attend an HBCU, wear their hair in a natural style, have a certain style of dress, it causes the majority (whoever they may be) to question the validity of their own choices. You have to ask yourself, is an education at a majority school really that great if some of the best and brightest black students choose to go to HBCUs? Is that long, straight blond hair really pretty if a black woman chooses to rock an Afro or braids? Do my suit and tie really look good if these young black dudes are rocking sagging pants and colorful sneakers?

Trust me; those on this blog complaining about the sheer audacity of the concept of an HBCU do not want the halls of their alma maters flooded with black students. It’s the idea of black students not wanting what the complainers think black students should want (to go to white institutions) that is really irking them. They don’t want us there, but they want us to want to be there, if that makes sense.

I attended two HBCUs, Spelman and Clark Atlanta, and if I had to do it over again, I would not change a thing. It was very refreshing to be educated in settings where the color of my skin was not a factor. Since we were all or mostly black, we could go ahead and get down to the business of education, instead of doing the little shuffle dance that I’ve encountered in the work place. I’m sure many on this blog know what I’m referring to; the whole game that you have to go through when you are the only or one of few people of color on your job. The “tests” they try to put you through, the way that they try to exclude you by talking about things they think you don’t know about, or the meetings and luncheons to which you are never invited. Being educated at an HBCU helped me to realize the advantage that white students have at majority institutions. It also gave me sensitivity to the fact that we live in a GLOBAL society and a deep respect for those who may not look like me or share my beliefs and values. I’m not saying that it is impossible for a majority institution to do this for its students, but in today’s society, where institutionalized racism still runs rampant, it is almost impossible.

I don’t know about Armstrong and Darton, but Albany State and SSU have strong alumni bases, so I don’t see this proposal going anywhere without an ugly fight.

By Cal T

December 2, 2008 3:46 PM | Link to this

The first thing I noticed as an outsider 20 years ago when I moved here is just how entrenched both Black and White people are when it comes to race. Each clinging to their own prejudice and pasts. From your churches to your schools and of course your politics. There is even two Falcon football teams, blacks love and support the Black players and Whites the White players.

There is no moral high ground anymore.

Grow up. All of you.

By the Wirden

December 2, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

I’ll just cut down the rest of the blog to post that Point Blank is… a “prison guard”???!!!

You couldn’t be more of a loser in my opinion. Yeah THAT’S a noble profession; one that prides itself on oppression and intimidation of individuals that are effectively powerless; wrought with corruption, and any punk with a billy club, body armor, a gun and a bad attitude can do.

Get a real job moron. Don’t you have some drugs to smuggle in and out for prisoners?

By SkegeeFAMU

December 2, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

For those of you who say that HBCU’s aren’t diverse, The School of Veterinary Medicine at Tuskegee, my undergrad institution, is the #3 ranked Vet School in the entire nation, and amongst one of the most respected Vet Schools period. The non-African American student population is just as large, if not larger than the African American student population. During my years at TU during the early 80’s (it was Tuskegee Institute then) at least half of my professors were non African-American. I’ll put my Tuskegee and FAMU education against that of any other institution of higher learning at any time. It was Tuskegee that trained, and made it possible for the Tuskegee Airmen to shatter myths and stereotypes about blacks not being intelligent enough to fly fighter jets along the way to defeating Nazi Germany in WWII. Never question the contributions that HBCU’s have made to American and worldwide society.

By Dr. Huxtable

December 2, 2008 3:54 PM | Link to this

As a graduate of a HBCU medical program, I realize that the majority of my medical education can be summed up in the “leg bone connected to the ankle bone” song. However with my degree and a good dose of affirmative action, I am now cheif of Staff at Grady.

By the Wirden

December 2, 2008 4:02 PM | Link to this

Tiff..

Did I tell you I LOVE you today??? (I hope you’re a woman).

I love it when people get broken down like a shotgun by someone who can put 3 and 2 together and call them on ther bullshyyyaat!…

I had to skip BACK down here when I read your 2:14p.

I happen to be a techie myself and couldn’t help but twist my face ALL up when I started reading that fool *Point Blank’s” sad tapdance. We’re just sayin’… “OWN IT dude, YOU put it out there”!. But that’s what happens to meager minds who attempt to put others under their thumbs when they themselves have no real substance.

By the Wirden

December 2, 2008 4:11 PM | Link to this

*By Blue Devil

December 2, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

I applied to Morehouse twice. Once as an African-American…my dad is from South Africa, where I was born, the second time as…..a whitey. Clearly, the second app was rejected in favor of the first even though both had the same transcript, but different names. These racist institutions have outlived their usefulness.

Btw, I went to Duke instead of that crappy school.*

Hmmmm… So…you were accepted already but yet you chose to submit another application after you were already accepted?..Same name, same transcripts and everything??.. only exception the demographic checkbox and they denied you huh?? Yep. THAT sounds believable! You would think flags would go up all over the place when they saw dual sets of paperwork..or your records came up in their system that said something was not quite right maybe???

Boy I TELL you, these 1950’s knuckledraggers will stop at no end to try to stoke the fires of reverse racism to further that supremacist doctrine.

By fratnv

December 2, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

u guys…plezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz quit feeding Point Blank!!!!!!!!!!!His plate is full with racism and ignorance.

By DIPPER

December 2, 2008 4:16 PM | Link to this

They have been trying to merge Savannah State and Armstrong since 1998. I was part of a protest to keep the schools separate and I still feel the same way. I have no information that shows Savannah State is having money issues. I can sit here and say that Armstrong would love to have Savannah States School of Business and Engineering School. So the merge of these 2 schools would benifit Armstrong.

It’s sad but racism is still alive.

By WOW@HBCU

December 2, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

I laugh when I get a resume from a SSU, FV, FAMU, TSU, whatever grad, throw them right in the trash!! The only time I ever hear about SSU is when there is a shooting down there! Years ago, after a insurance plan switch I looked up and went to a nearby dentist, walked in and saw a Meharry Med diploma and turned around and walked right out! I am from Nashville and know better.

By Texas Pete

December 2, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Perhaps its time to end the HBCUs and let everyone stand or fall on their own two feet. There really isn’t a need to have segragated college system any longer. Obama proved that we can have anything we want if we work hard enough for it, so there should not be any more we can’t make it in the real university sentiment.

I will miss the kick @ss bands though.

By Katie Davis

December 2, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

I think this is a very bad idea. In the past when minority schools merge, the identity is loss of the schools. It is most important that this is not done and the schools remain separate but equal. Our young people need to have the same opportunities but in separate settings. Let us not become complacent to believe that this is necessary. The heritage of blacks will be lost, if this merger occurs.

By NoDoubt

December 2, 2008 5:21 PM | Link to this

I really doubt the other schools would want such a large influx of african americans unto their campuses. I am not saying, just saying, ya know?

By John Coffey

December 2, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

Interesting Discussion @ 3:05pm,

Thanks for your kind comments. Your post is an excellent example of how discourse can be reasoned and passionate without devolving into what unfortunately tends to dominate this board.

You are correct. I did make an improper comparison. I think I was focusing on the “B” in “HBCU” and the familiar black/white dichotomy in setting up my construct and, in doing so, compared apples to oranges.

The non-white enrollment at the institutions I cited are as follows: Georgia Tech - 40%; UGA - 24%; and Medical College of GA - 31%. These figures (taken from the Board of Regents’ Semester Enrollment Report for Fall 2008) include self-identified Black, Native American, Alaskan Native, Asian/Pacific Islander, and Hispanic students. For comparison purposes, Georgia is about 41% minority according to U.S. Census Bureau figures released in May, so UGA and MCG are lagging behind a bit. Overall, non-white students comprise just over 40% of the student body statewide which, comparatively speaking, is quite good and consistent with the overall minority population; however, a significant portion of this representation is attributable to HBCUs providing opportunities to those who might not otherwise have them. Additionally, while minorities are underrepresented in the state’s research institutions, there is a gross overrepresentation of minorities in two-year colleges, where they comprise 56% of the student body.

Having said that, I am all for this notion of equality that people tend to tout in ever-changing form; however, in my opinion, one cannot be dismayed by the existence of HBCUs and content with the current student body makeup of the state’s flagship schools which are (not to be inflammatory) white universities in everything but name.

By John Coffey

December 2, 2008 5:38 PM | Link to this

WOW@HBCU-

Thank God for people like you. Fortunately, the people who matter (CEOs, hiring managers at successful companies, etc.) know better. Just ask any of the Fortune 500 CEOs and investment bank hiring managers who visit FAMU’s business school on a weekly basis, knowing that it is one of the best in the country. Continue losing out on some of the best talent. Based on your post, they deserve better anyway.

By catlady

December 2, 2008 6:21 PM | Link to this

Some would argue that STATE SPONSORED “specialty” colleges have no place in the current financial environment. We are not talking about the Morehouses or Spelmans, but why should the state pay for two colleges/universities of any type in the same middle sized town? But in saying this, you have to recognize the importance of the HISTORY behind HBCUs. No one says to shut down the HBCU in the “pair”—you could shut down the other school.

We have to use our resources wisely. That means combining the vo-tech schools. It also means creative thinking about the University System schools here in Georgia.

(Maybe the financial situation is better in FL. FAMU has some very strong programs; so does FSU.)

By Sigh....

December 2, 2008 6:55 PM | Link to this

Want to have a blog with over 100 posts. Bring up race and watch the bigots come appear!

By Lee

December 2, 2008 11:25 PM | Link to this

In all this babble, someone did bring up an interesting question - even though it was in jest.

Why not merge Ga Tech and Ga State?

It’s a five minute Marta ride between the two and both schools already have transit busses running around town. Let Tech concentrate on what they do best (Engineering / Science) and move the “M-track” (Business Management) over to State - who, btw, has an exceptional business school.

By the way, want to know the dirty little secret about college degrees?

The vast majority of employers really don’t give a rip where you attended college.

By Bridges

December 3, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Man please! You have got to be jokein’ me. ASU and SSU are HBCUs with a 100+ years of history. A merger is out of the question. There are other ways of saving money from an expenditure standpoint. For every support services that provide the same function and utilizes state funds, combine that service of staff position. Reduce personnel costs and combine services. Cut the fat off the top and start the idiot that thought of this nonsense, @#%#! (Bridges XE ‘73

By SW

December 3, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

Armstrong Atlantic has a $182 million dollar economic impact in Savannah. Sure, that would be a smart thing to remove from the Savannah economy at this day in age. Both schools serve a purpose. SSU is not totally African American and AASU is not totally white. AASU is actually about 30% African American and has over 7,000 student. This Senator is clueless. Leave them be.

By richbrave

December 3, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

You know for a long time I thought it was GEORGIA TECHNOLOGICAL AND STATE UNIVERSITY, not GEORGIA TECH and GEORGIA STATE. Rack ‘um up. Be consistant.

By richbrave

December 3, 2008 5:41 PM | Link to this

A copy of my post on LEO WILLINGHAM’s forum in regard to this subject:

I hope I don’t step on any toes here as that certainly is not my intent. But this controversy goes back to my suggestions a couple of blogs in the past. There I stated that athletic alliances of schools considered HBCU’s with strong FCS conferences might be of benefit to the former. As an alternative, I suggested and Mr. WILLINGHAM agreed that another play-off round in the FCS could benefit athletically strong HBSU’s who are currently on the outside of the FCS looking it.

It is highly unlikely that higher educational institutions which historically have offered opportunities to the African-American community are going to forthrightly march into mergers with predominately white schools, nor should they. After all, its not HBCU’s fault that more white students could not project minority status upon themselves in the past, or even today. The opportunities are open to all and always have been. But it is true, as one post suggests, schools serving only one segment of the general population are weaker for it. A broader student base is called for. More’s the how of the gordian knot which separates our higher educational apparatus than the why.

If a GRADUAL assimilation of the historic institutions of our disparate cultures is to be pursued, what better venue than athletics.? The UNIVERSITY of RICHMOND now has a black head coach. Its first in history. Reknowned as one of the south’s more reactionary institutions, my school is trying mightily to subvert that perception in numerous ways and not solely on the athletic field.

When will RICHMOND and VIRGINIA UNION consider a merger.? After all, both are HISTORICALLY Baptist institutions unless I’m misinformed for which I apologize profusely. But I think not. There’s an awakening in AMERICA that our citizenry has more in common than we ever thought previously.

Perceptions are changed all over the world about absolutes here in the UNITED STATES. As I said yesterday to a good friend from KENYA who teaches in RICHMOND’s foreign language department, “What do you think of AMERICA?” To which he responded, “there are many things I think of in regard to AMERICA.” Then I added, “just when you think you’ve got the country figured out, its goes an surprises you.” I smiled a gesture of acceptance and personal reassurance. He smiled that knowing smile of recognition and acceptance.

To me that’s AMERICA, and this merger business is just another positive progression toward a homogenous society where the precepts laid out in the late 1700’s can finally bear fruit for everyone. Just don’t rush to judgement and throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Its time for considered reflection by each individual for whom this controversy is of import, and for the beginnings of substantive options for change to be laid down. What better start than through athletics?

By richbrave

December 4, 2008 7:14 PM | Link to this

And a tip of my hat to MR. EARL STAFFORD and his foundation for pony-ing up a cool 1.6 million to fete the homeless, disabled veterans, terminally ill patients, youngsters and others at the PRESIDENT-elect’s inaugural parade in JANUARY.

By Pam

December 7, 2008 11:44 PM | Link to this

Why is it assumed that the HBCU will be dissolved into the non-HBCU? Couldn’t it be the other way around? For those of you who believe it would be a good idea, why?

Is it because these institutions are racist? All students are welcome to apply to HBCU’s. I went to SSU because I fell in love with the beautiful campus as a middle schooler. I could have went to UGA, Clayton State, or West Point (all schools that accepted me), but I chose SSU. No regrets here! And one of my dear college friends was a white female from Cobb County.

Is it because the state needs to save money? We are currently embroiled in so much government waste, combining schools would not be the best way to save money. We should look to eliminate the duplication of services in our institutions.

Maybe it’s because the two schools are located in the same cities? If that is the case, why not merge Georgia Tech and Georgia State? Atlanta Tech and Georgia Tech should merge, since both of the are technical schools located in the same city. The commute time is the same as the one between SSU and AASU!

I don’t think any schools should be merged. All student should have the choice to apply to and attend whatever school of higher learning they choose.

SSU class of 2006

By Lamar Rhodes

December 21, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

What half of these idiots fail to realize is that we did not designate our own institutions HBCU’s, the federal government did.

The federal government under Title VI and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 designated these institutions HBCU’s due to their formation resulting from the southern segregated and apartheid policies of the Jim Crow era.

So we are HBCU’s as a matter of fact - Historically Black Colleges and University, not a matter of choice.

You cannot change and rewrite history as if apartheid and segregation never existed. It is not our fault that whites in the south thought of blacks unfit to sit in the same class room with them.

Futhermore, Savannah State (then Georgia State College) would not have been formed but for more racism. Atlanta University was the first land grant institution for blacks. But when Georgia racist legislatures found out that whites were attending Atlanta University (now Clark Atlanta), mostly children of faculty, they took away the mandatory federal funding for the black institution and then formed an institution for blacks (Georgia State) now Savannah State University.

Armstrong became a four year institution in 1964, coincidentally 10 years after Brown vs. Board of Education, but the same year as the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

So the Board of Regents, made them four years to continue segregation in Savannah, it was illegal then, and a slap in the face to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Anyway,

Savannah State University: has a huge economic impact in the city of Savannah and a merger would not benefit the local economy.

All programs are not only regionally but nationally accredited.

Business - AACSB (both graduate and undergraduate - only 15-20% of Business schools in country have gained this prestigous accreditation) Social Work - CSWE (both undergraduate and graduate) MPA - NAASPA Chemistry - ACS (only three HBCU’s in Georgia have this accreditation Morehouse, Spelman, and Savannah State) Mass Comm. - ACEJMC - only two in Georgia (Savannah State and UGA) Engineering - ABET

SSU receive less in State support than Armstrong, but garners more and research dollars than Armstrong (FY 2007 SSU received $8 million in research Armstrong received $2 million in research)

SSU faculty is more diverse - only 132 faculty members (52% are black, 48% are non-black)

Armstrong faculty is not diverse - 286 faculty members (85% white, 15% non-white - only 21 black professors)

SSU is located on prime real-estate and has been touted as Georgia’s most beautiful and picturesque campus.

This makes no sense, it is only hate and a perpetuation of past discrimination targeting blacks in this State.

By Neb Shakur Atum-RE

January 15, 2009 10:49 AM | Link to this

Savannah State University should not merge with Armstrong Atlantic State University. Just look at the world and who is at the core/root cause of many, if not all of the problems that plague the world and its institutions. And now they want to merge. We must live for and by each other as the Originators, Creators, and Civilizers of the all including this kind of man. Be Wise and learn from your Ancestors who know the way home. No any wins the race, in racism. Truth Is Truth.

Class of 1985