Get Schooled

By jim d

December 1, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

Laura,

You failed to mention our business partners in Gwinnett. They too contribute heavily.

I think part of the problem today is that many contributors have failed to see any substantial improvement, or return on their money, and during these troubling times have had to scale back. Couple that with the schools having grown accustomed to having the money while the state has continued to inadequately fund education and we begin to see the real issue.

By TheBlogger

December 1, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

Some public schools already have someone on staff to help with grant writing. Public school teachers can sometimes apply for various grant money to purchase equipment, help with lessons, etc.

This person is usually an English major that is good at technical writing. They don’t lead the effort but rather just help with the writing.

By Hardendorf

December 1, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Keep in mind the staff heading development often is paid in relation to what they can deliver. For most colleges it’s a ten to one or or more ratio. So if you can pull in a million dollars each year in grants and donations then you might be paid $100,000. I doubt a lot of public schools could do this. Plus we are not talking about money they would expect to get but money raised in earnest fundraising. Also keep in mind that the Alumni of private schools have a lot more money than public school alumni.

By ozzfest

December 1, 2008 12:50 PM | Link to this

I attended a private school in Albany named Deerfield-Windor. My brother attended a public school. I then went to UGA and he went to Duke and makes twice as much as I do. PRIVATE SCHOOLS ARE FOR THE COMFORT OF THE STUDENT’S PARENTS, OTHERWISE THEY ARE A WASTE OF MONEY.

By Jennifer

December 1, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

What makes you think that the system foundations are not being directed by the county system ? I would be astounded if the system foundations are NOT doing the districts bidding.

By Gail

December 1, 2008 1:16 PM | Link to this

Laura - The reason that private foundations are successful is the same reason why private schools are more successful than public schools….they’re not run by the government! If you were to create a foundation for a public school….then hand it over to a government agency (School District) it would fail. Mark my words. Can anyone name one government agency/objective that is more efficient, more productive or more successful than it’s private competition? Schools, Roads, Hospitals, Insurance, even security related objectives…..all run better by the private sector! And the list could go on…..

By NCLB

December 1, 2008 1:23 PM | Link to this

‘Many lessons from private schools’

1) Standards 2) Discipline 3) Results 4) Quality 5) Money

By Ripdog

December 1, 2008 1:37 PM | Link to this

Unfortunately this will widen the gap even more between the haves and have nots. Districts with the most money will have more resources to raise money. In the words of Barack Obama, “Spread the Wealth”. We should take from the rich and give back to the poor.

By Atlanta Native

December 1, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Ozzfest - based on your name, I think you life choices factored in more than the school.

I went to private school K-4, public 5-8 and private 9-12. I am thankful for my parents sending me back, because 25 years later I see a great difference in how my peers in each turned out. Sure, some did well from the public school, but the majority of the private classmates did very well. I presently sacrifice and save to send my child to an excellent private school. It will be worth it.

Ripdog - my parents were have nots, but saved and sacrificed for me. I spread my wealth by paying property taxes to educate your child in hopes that he/she will be a good employee when he/she works for my son.

By lovelyliz

December 1, 2008 2:37 PM | Link to this

You forget to mention all the things that private schools (elementary/secondary) with those endowments and fundaraisers don’t have to deal with or pay for: busing students, educating children with learning disabilities, feeding children whose parents can’t afford to feed them, school nurses, school counselors, behavioral problems, etc., etc.

Much of the fundraising comes from alumni and the well-to-do who tend to send their children to private schools. What makes you think they want to contribute to public education?

By taxpayer

December 1, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

To Ripdog: You say take from the rich and give back to the poor. That makes it sound like the rich took from the poor in the first place. You cannot give BACK something that wasn’t taken. You can GIVE to your community and to those who have less. Not everyone who goes to a private school is rich. Some people scrape and sacrifice so their children can get a good education in a safe, supportive environment with other people who put education as a priority.

By RealityKing

December 1, 2008 3:19 PM | Link to this

I’ll stop donating to private schools when they start stealing my hard earned paycheck in ever increasingly wasted property taxes.

By arh

December 1, 2008 3:21 PM | Link to this

lovelyliz, my children attend private school with a school nurse, lunch at no extra cost for every student and counselors for lower, middle and upper school students. We are not well-to-do but we choose to pay for their education over other things. However, understanding that we all benefit from a well educated society, we have contributed to public schools (not just through taxes either)

By jim d

December 1, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

then there’s always that little word “CHOICE” when people Choose a school they have a feeling of ownership and are much more willing to support it finacially when it isn’t a government handout or mandate.

By pauljohnson

December 1, 2008 3:26 PM | Link to this

Ripdog, you are an idiot. Instead of asking everyone else to “spread the wealth”, why don’t you go and create some wealth for you and your family. It doesn’t matter where your kids go to school. What matters is whether or not you teach them about work ethic.

Poverty is a cycle. The only way to break that cycle is to become self reliant by working harder and earning more money. Relying on the government to “spread the wealth” will only perpetuate the cycle of poverty.

By lovelyliz

December 1, 2008 3:37 PM | Link to this

Good privae schools will have a nurse, but they don’t have to have one and most of them don’t. The one my neice attends had on years ago who came in part time, but now they’ve cut that position. Last year the school dis-banded the PTA.

By A

December 1, 2008 3:41 PM | Link to this

The public school athletic booster clubs are already hitting local business. Unfortunately, their efforts are generally erratic and not well organized between sports and between schools.

Consider the return on investment for a donation to a public school: Public schools are famously disorganized and wrought with overhead and red-tape. On top of that, I already pay a chunk of money in taxes so why should I allocate money toward a public institution that I consider to be run poorly and inefficiently by people lacking some basic business skills? Part of the appeal of donating to a private school is some assurance that the school is running pretty lean and not tied up in the politics of public education.

Also think about some of the public schools whose facilities are closed or later reapportioned to be used for other things. There’s something about the physical campus that makes donations seem important or enduring. Why would anyone donate money for construction that in 30 years might go unused? Private school campuses have permanence.

With all of the red-tape and politics involved in the public school system, how easy would it be for a wealthy business or individual to come into a county and make a targeted donation? For example, let’s say a business came into Fulton County and wanted to construct a classical music building at Northview HS. The rest of the county, especially the south side, would erupt in cries of “not fair!” It would be almost impossible.

Just be thankful that the private schools are working – they give relief to the public school system by freeing up seats.

By lovelyliz

December 1, 2008 3:42 PM | Link to this

Hard working and financially successful are not always the same thing.

Some of the hardest working people you could ever meet will never make enough $$$ to send their children to private schools. Even with voucher proposals that never come close to covering 100% of the tuition let alone everything else that’s required, these parents will be forced to keep their kids in public education.

Good for you if you can make enough $$ and sacrifices to send your children to a private facility, but assume that others don’t because they just don’t work hard enough.

By TheBlogger

December 1, 2008 3:48 PM | Link to this

Gail and others

There are no statistics AT ALL that support your assumption that private schools are “better than” public schools. There are many many public schools that out-perform private schools.

Stop with the false propaganda!

jim d I knew that with any topic even touching on private schools, you would start the beating of your “Choice” drum.

IMHO, the main difference between private and public school is segregation. Some parents want to separate their children from others - maybe those others are not polite, maybe they are criminals, maybe they are too poor, maybe they are too black, whatever. There isn’t a real difference in the general education between private and public schools. There are good private schools and there are good public schools. There are bad private schools and there are bad public schools.

By David S

December 1, 2008 3:50 PM | Link to this

Is it not enough for the failed government schools to steal billions of dollars every year from people who do not even benefit from their services? Is it not enough that they already have the ability to raise additional money by simply raising millage rates and thus stealing more from those same folks?

Here’s a thought. Why not look at where all the money is wasted in the government bureaucracy. You don’t need a “vice president of money raising or whatever”. There are already too many superintendents and asst. spuerintendents of way too many things that do absolutely nothing but COMPLY WITH FEDERAL AND STATE REGULATIONS. These folks make hundreds of thousands of dollars and educate nobody!

Here’s another thought. Make parents with 5 kids pay 5 times what parents with 1 kid pay, et Sounds fair to me. Just think of all the additional money you could raise if everyone paid their own way. But then that would undermine the socialist nature of the schools. That might even force a few parents to realize the costs “society” is picking up on behalf of their overpopulation.

If you want to learn a lesson from private schools it should be that teachers should be fired and rewarded based on their performance. Another lesson is that if you do a crappy job of educating a child you can expect their kid and their money to leave. The final lesson is that these two factors combine to make for excellent schools that outperform government schools by all standards.

But government schools will never learn those lessons because they don’t have to. They can coninue to perform poorly and then ask for more money when the test scores show failure.

Private schools get donations because people in the community realize that they are doing far more with far less and that they are picking up the pieces where the government has failed. They also get the money because everyone knows that the government has stolen the money that hard working families would otherwise have had to spend on a decent education and flushed it down the proverbial rat hole.

And by the way, many of the folks who help with fundraising do it as volunteers - because they care about the private schools and their continued existence.

By Tony

December 1, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

Wow. What a load of misinformation is being put forth today.

First, private schools are no better or worse that public schools and vice-versa. The major research comparing the two kinds of schools showed that public schools actually achieved higher gains in achievement, but that research does not fit the choice/voucher agenda. Recent research reveals the same is true regarding charter schools.

Public schools are forced to deal with all the social shortcomings of its district. If the school is located in middle classs suburbs, you can reasonably expect high performance. If it is located in rural or inner-city areas, you can likewise expect multiple challenges.

Good public schools are still our nations best investment for the future. Local communities are the best equipped for making the decisions about their schools rather than Washington, D.C. or Atlanta. What it requires is commitment from everyone - parents, school staff and community - for that to happen.

Finally, a couple of posters have summed up the sentiments of both ends of the spectrum on this issue. One poster wants the “haves” to remain in that position by keeping the public schools subserviant to the wealthy. Another poster wants something for nothing by claiming we should spread the wealth. However, many of us in public education believe firmly that anyone who puts in the effort to get a good education will get the chances in life they earn.

By jim d

December 1, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Blogger,

That drum plays some pretty sweet music, my friend.

“There are good private schools and there are good public schools. There are bad private schools and there are bad public schools.”

How true, but you fail to recognize that a failed private school costs me nothing. While on the other hand a failed public school has wasted TAX DOLLARS!!

By lori

December 1, 2008 4:56 PM | Link to this

There are also good parents and there are bad parents. One of the differences between public and private schools can be traced back to parental involvement. You can bet if Joe Somebody pays 15K/year to educate his kid, he’ll make darn sure that kids performs. On the otherhand, some parents of public school kids think it’s the school system’s job to raise their kid. It all starts in the home. If all parents were good parents, then all schools would be good schools. Schools are “bad” because the students aren’t learning. If they had their parents behind them, they’d learn.

By lovelyliz

December 1, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

You can bet if Joe Somebody pays 15K/year to educate his kid, he’ll make darn sure that kids performs

I am not so sure about that. A friend of a friend who comes from a very well-to-do family sent their kids to one of the most expensive private schools in the area. 15K+ per child with tuition fees, etc. Their kids didn’t do well and in that school throwing around your family name and $$ doesn’t mean a whole lot because there is always somebody with more $$$ than you. The kids were taken out of that school because of difficulties with the administration. Their daughter has been in 3 facilities in the last 3 years, the son in 2. They are at best average students and paying more for one year in school than I did for my new car didn’t change that.

By Lee

December 1, 2008 9:50 PM | Link to this

Let’s see, my public school teacher wife and I send our youngest to private school - and she’s not the only one.

If that’s not a condemnation of OUR school system, I don’t know what is. Your’s might be better.

So, back to the original blog topic, “Should public schools hire someone to go around and pester the hell out of businesses for donations?”

Let me think about that for a half-second.

No, no, and hell no.

By TheBlogger

December 1, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

Lee So then, am I to understand from you that your teacher wife is a horrible teacher?

jim d Again with the same conversation. Don’t you ever learn? I think that the answer is “no.” Let’s see…. how does it go, again?

Our society spends money on many things for the “good” of everyone. This includes the military. Each individual may not agree with our military, but each person must pay for it. This includes our road system. Each individual may not even own a car, but each individual does pay for it. And, also, among many other things is PUBLIC EDUCATION.

Public education is a way to help elevate our population to some minimum level of education. Our society has determined that it is a good thing for its citizens to read, write, do math, etc. Thus, the law that everyone must attend school. This law helps to prevent child labor abuse among other things.

Are all public schools great? No. Are all public schools horrible? No. But if you do not like yours, you can work to help improve it. That is your CHOICE. Or, you can pay your personal money to send your kid to private school. That is also your CHOICE.

Let’s see…. did I rehash the details extensively enough for you?

For some reason, I think that you will again and again bring up your agenda on these blogs.

By jim d

December 2, 2008 1:29 AM | Link to this

Blogger,

Your defintion of choice and mine to not really agree.

I assure you that I will bring it up again, and again

By jim d

December 2, 2008 7:31 AM | Link to this

BTW Blogger, old friend,

Using your military example above let me point out that while we all pay only a few serve, and those few MAKE THE CHOICE

As to your comment “education is a way to help elevate our population to some minimum level of education. Our society has determined that it is a good thing for its citizens to read, write, do math, etc.”

I have no problem with this other than a few folks feel government is the only method of accomplishing this task. IT IS NOT!!”

And for some reason I just know you will again try to convince me and many others that it is. (ain’t gonna happen ;)

By A

December 2, 2008 7:48 AM | Link to this

For the most part, the people/families make the school’s reputation more so than the faculty.

Unfortunately, when you get degenerate families, like in Clayton County, the good teachers leave, often so their own kids don’t have to attend schools with those kids of the reprobates.

All this bs about not having enough to pay for a school’s physical maintenance and other needs is bothersome when the students themselves can’t show any restraint from tearing the buildings down from abuse; and I’m not talking about normal wear-and-tear. I’m talking about destructive behavior.

Why would anyone invest in anything being torn down by those who benefit from it most?

By TheBlogger

December 2, 2008 8:30 AM | Link to this

jim d

It is an entirely separate topic for arguement that you bring up regarding governments role in our lives. That is not this blog or this topic.

This blog is about school, specifically, and the subtopic was regarding private vs. public and if fund raising should be part of the public side. It is not about government’s role.

A

I agree with you to a point. More importantly, IMHO, is the spine of the administration. The community and parents need to support a strong administrator trying to clean up a school (ie: kicking out the thugs, apply appropriate consequences, etc.). The administration and the parents also need to support the teacher trying to manage kids and offer strong academic lessons. When there is no support, that is when the school behavior declines - and the academics soon follow. As you pointed out, why would a good academic teacher put up with rude and ill behaved kids when they can simply transfer to a better school?

By TheBlogger

December 2, 2008 8:38 AM | Link to this

jim d

Choice: the act of choosing, selection. power of choosing, option.

You have another definition?

People have a CHOICE to help improve their local public school in a variety of ways - or not. People have a CHOICE to pay their personal money to send their kids to private school - or not.

By jim d

December 2, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

Blogger,

And the poor have a Choice to earn a millon $ a year—right?

Here’s the thing. Your definition of choice is practice is limited where mine applies to all aspects. Although I know it will never happen, I’d prefer government make no choices for me.

I think another aspect is that I consider public schools an extension of government (which they technically are). I’m not too certain that you view them the same way. You appear to see them more as an independant entity unanswerable to anyone. (you aren’t Napoalvin or a member of the GCPS BOE are you?) :-)

By TheBlogger

December 2, 2008 11:49 AM | Link to this

jim d

Wow. Again, you make a giant leap of logic in assumming what I think. Please stop.

Government doesn’t fund schools - people do. In fact, it is all people - whether they have children or not. Everyone funds public schools.

Most of the money for a given school comes from the local people through property taxes. Little of it comes from the Federal through the State (and some from the State) to the actual school. However, even that money comes from the people.

A major difference between you and I isn’t how we view schools, but rather how we view government. I see government as an extension of the people. You view people as an extension of the government.

By jim d

December 2, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

blogger

WOW!! what to say to that?

well let’s start here.

“in assumming what I think.”

No dear friend. What i said was “I’m not too certain that you view them the same way. You appear to see them”

note the You appear

Schools ARE GOVERNMENT since they haave the power to tax. Don’t kid yourself. Here in Georgia they are part of County or city governments.

“You view people as an extension of the government.”

Indeed I do. Don’t know about you but I start working for myself and not government long about the end of June every year. Which means I spend at least one-half of my time earning money to support government in some form or fashion.

By TheBlogger

December 2, 2008 1:34 PM | Link to this

jim d

I know of no school - private or public, elementary or middle or high or college or university - that has the power to tax. WTF are you talking about?

By jim d

December 2, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

Blogger,

Gimme a break here, you do pay property taxes don’t you? Have you ever noticed the part that says school tax? Who TF do you think supports them? School taxes are determined by the BOE and the County collects and disperses them. Is that too difficult a concept to grasp?

By Onlooker

December 2, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this

Awesome. This is the first time I’ve ever seen a shootout between individuals with unloaded pistols.

By jim d

December 2, 2008 3:11 PM | Link to this

onlooker,

yeah, well sometimes it is difficult to convey facts to someone that refuses to accept them.

TITLE 20. EDUCATION CHAPTER 2. ELEMENTARY AND SECONDARY EDUCATION ARTICLE 9. LOCAL PUBLIC SCHOOL FINANCES PART 4. TAXATION

O.C.G.A. § 20-2-490 (2008)

§ 20-2-490. Municipalities authorized to levy school taxes

Authority is given by the Constitution of Georgia to municipalities now authorized by law to operate independent school systems to maintain public schools in their respective limits by local taxation.

HISTORY: Ga. L. 1919, p. 288, § 127; Code 1933, § 32-1111; Ga. L. 1946, p. 206, § 14.

By TheBlogger

December 2, 2008 11:04 PM | Link to this

jim d I have never met someone that looks at the world as backwards as you! “The world according to Jim”….

The government runs the people - people don’t run the government.

School boards set property tax rates.

What else do you think? I really need another good laugh!

By jim d

December 3, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this

Dear Blogger,

I’m afraid you epitomize the now famous words uttered by Henry Ford when said “Thinking is hard work and most people want no part of it”

Unfortunately many people still believe we are a country of government of the people, by the people, and “for the people”, not a government of business, by business, and for business. However, all one need do is look at these bailout plans to realize that is no longer the case, that business and government are so intertwined that we the people no longer run our government, that it does in fact run us.

By TheBlogger

December 3, 2008 8:37 AM | Link to this

Dear jim d

While I have tried to remain focused on issues and ideas, you resort to insults (hidden behind some quote). How very childish of you - but seemingly typical.

While I described you as “backwards” in thought, that is an accurate description compared to my thoughts and not an insult.

Now that I know your “core” (childish) - I will simply say …….

WORD.

By jim d

December 3, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Excuse me blogger,

Sorry if you took affense, but where’s the difference?

you described me as “backwards” in thought

and I described you as “not” thinking.

I’m not sure if one is any worse than the other.

Lighten up man!

By mystery poster

December 3, 2008 3:16 PM | Link to this

How about this one? A teacher in CA is actually selling advertisements on his tests.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/12/03/teacher.ads.on.tests/index.html?iref=mpstoryview