Get Schooled

By Ernest

November 17, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

Just to bring balance to this story, the Georgia School Board Association had a comment on this report. It can be found at: GSBA Response

That said, I believe many of the recommendations are worthy of consideration. I see this as an attempt to set standards they would like to see for school board members.

By Southwest GA Libertarian

November 17, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

More of the State trying to take control of education from where it belongs - in the local community.

By TheBlogger

November 17, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

Reality check here….

Aren’t most government “groups” corrupt? IMHO, every aspect of a government group needs an organization like SACS to keep them in line.

SACS is a good thing. They catch BOE members that are doing the wrong things.

Voters don’t seem to care about corruption when they go to the polls. We elect idiots that steal money, take bribes, hire their own relatives, etc. SOMEONE needs to care about doing the right thing!

By Tony

November 17, 2008 3:29 PM | Link to this

The state does not need to interfere with local boards of education. The majority of these boards operate well and provide the kind of educational leadership needed for the wide variety of locales within our state. Uniform ethics standards might be helpful, but election qualifications should only be determined by voters.

SACS does provide a good balance to the political side of running schools. The standards for accreditation are generally accepted by communities and are easily achievable in most circumstances. Then, schools and systems are able to go above these standards to provide higher levels of service. Of course, this is dependent upon what the electorate will tolerate in terms of taxation.

These forces can work well to keep boards balanced in their approach to making long-term decisions that are in the best interest of communities and students.

By jim d

November 17, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Tony,

Fraid we’re miles apart on this issue.

However, that may just be due to my experience with the Gwinnett County BOE, Super Napoalivin, and the under-reporting of violent incidents, the cloak of secrecy, meeting behind closed doors to vote. Their ability to silence dissention, through whatever means possible (generally intimidation), of parents and employees alike. Their one bid deals. Their spending of money in amounts doubling and tripling the original estimates.

Other poor judgments such as building an elementary school between two toxic landfills, and the continued expenditure of a totally redundant Gateway test. Not to mention indebting taxpayers without a constitutionally mandated referendum, spending hundreds of millions of dollars on new offices when we have trailer cities setting at many of our schools, the covering up of improper spending (handing money to religious organizations), to mention but a few, hasn’t helped how I feel much either.

Here’s my point. Other than a grand jury, these people answer to no one. And if they feed the grand jury carefully they really don’t even answer to them. I believe oversight of these folks, making them accountable to someone, is a good thing that will benefit our schools, our children, and our pocket books..

By Jeff

November 17, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

jim:

Where do you think the State-level politicos came from?

Typically, they are former local-level politicos that built up their networks outside their local domains.

Meaning: If the local level politicos are corrupt and/or inept, what makes you think State-level ones are any better?

By Trailer Park Philosopher

November 17, 2008 8:00 PM | Link to this

On one extreme, you have local BOE members that get into the day-to-day business of running schools, who try to create sweetheart deals so that friends and family members make money off the school system, and generally view the system as their own little fiefdom.

On the other extreme, you have local BOEs that basically rubber stamps anything and everything that the superintendent puts before them.

The optimum is somewhere in the middle.

My local system went through a SACS probation several years ago due largely to BOE governance. Personally, I think that two of the board members were asking the hard questions and challenging the “ruling clique.” The ruling clique didn’t like it and sicced SACS on them.

We now have a “Board of Distinction,” which means they sit there, nod their heads, and approve anything the superintendent puts before them.

Now then, what I want to know is, who died and made SACS king? I didn’t elect SACS and I think they have far overstepped the intent and purpose of an accreditation body. The parent company of SACS is AdvancED. Are they a “For Profit” company? Who do they answer to? Certainly not to the taxpayers.

By catlady

November 17, 2008 8:34 PM | Link to this

Scratch down a half inch and several systems would fail. Ours got in trouble and out very quickly recently, but the problems remain. Nepotism, micromanaging, incompetent leadership, Peyton Place, sweetheart deals, you name it. All poor CO/BOE problems due to judgements made that involve old family relationships.

SACS is primarily a good ole boy system, IMHO. It used to be helpful in achieving better situations for kids. Now it just reperpetuates itself, like a Marburg virus. Little real standards, no real common sense.

By Word on the street

November 17, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

The word is, Mark Elgart had to find himself a patsy, to defend from charges that Elgart and SACS were a part of the white power structure’s attempt to reassert control in Clayton County. Not that the antics of these school boards are defensible, but maybe the investigation that really needs to take place is an investigation of SACS and its practices.

By Jeff

November 18, 2008 4:53 AM | Link to this

On SACS itself, echoing Cat’s point:

T went through SACS accredidation last week.

Literally, they walked around her classroom once, spent about 30 min talking to parents, 30 min with students, and 20 min shooting the breeze with teachers after school. They asked NO ONE any hard questions, and barely asked any questions at all. If your school is orthodox - ie: indoctrination center - you are fine. It is only the places that dare try something different (and don’t have friends in high places) that have anything to worry about from them.

And you say BOEs are rubber stamps???

By jim d

November 18, 2008 7:07 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I don’t necessarily disagree with you on SACS but here’s my point,

Unless I’m mistaken, SACS is a n organization made up of college representatives that have not been publicly elected and therefore have no real obligation to serve anything but their own interest. On the other hand we have a State Board that must work through an elected State school superintendent who answers to the voting public every four years.

Now comes The Commission for School Board Excellence made up of local leaders and educators with recommendations to strengthen school boards by holding them accountable to someone other than just SACS. Personally I believe this would be a good thing, something that would have a positive effect on education in Georgia.

Look at it this way my friend. The current system has proven not to work, so why not give something else a shot? Why not pass a few laws that provide penalties for Supers. and Board members that continually violate state laws. Hopefully something of this nature would net systems like Gwinnett who refuse to abide by the letter of the law regarding open meetings, etc., etc., etc.

By Jeff

November 18, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this

jim:

I can agree with you as far as holding elected officials more accountable to the law.

Where I object is when you begin to give the State the power to remove the people whom the locals have voted for. To my mind, it basically becomes a state-level NCLB at that point, and we all know how well THAT is actually working…

By jim d

November 18, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

Well jeff,

when we have state laws being violated I believe we need real penalities not just a slap on the hands. Particulary like in places like Gwinnett where we have a super. who has been known to become condescending towards a grand jury.

I’d support any measure to remove criminals from a governing board. Yeah, yeah, I know. We can try a recall but we both now those seldom if ever work in counties like Gwinnett, where Board members appear to get elected for life.

By jim d

November 18, 2008 8:49 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

Truth of the matter is, people don’t like change, as evidenced in the list below.

As a big history buff, what do all of these folks have in common?

Martin Van Buren

John Quincy Adams

Theodore Roosevelt

Franklin Pierce

Benjamin Harrison

William Howard Taft

Herbert Hoover

Jimmy Carter

George H. Bush

That is a list of elected presidents that served one term, failing to be re-elected to the second term.(A side note here, if Obama creates all the change he is talking, you will be adding him to the list)

As for the quandary off the state un-electing duly elected officials?

I’ll agree with you when we place term limits on BOE members, cause people just aren’t informed enough or smart enough to do the job of getting rid of these folks themselves.

By Jeff

November 18, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

Term limits would possibly be a state-level dictum that I could live with. It makes no sense that we have limits for POTUS and even GA Governor, but anyone lower than that can be elected every cycle from the time they are old enough to run until the day that die.

By blackbird

November 18, 2008 9:58 AM | Link to this

yes, something has to be put in place to oversee boe’s. when you have situations like we do up here in the hall county system where the school superintindant’s good friend, who happens to be a retired school superintindant, is given a full time principal’s position and a state travel supplement of nearly 9000 dollars a year to drive to and from work and his home. and the board supports and tries to defend it even when it is pointed out to be directly against state travel regulations and laws.and the local press is too passive and tied to the board and system to even investigate. yes, something needs to change there.

By jim d

November 18, 2008 10:44 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I’m afraid Ratloff could even be re-elected after death, since she will have been there 40 years upon completing the term she was just re-elected to. I don’t think anyone would notice the difference.

By question

November 18, 2008 11:41 PM | Link to this

Blackbird, Why hasn’t the state been notified of this problem? I don’t think Kathy Cox gets much more in a travel supplement. That is a lot of money to waste in these tough economic times.

By blackbird

November 19, 2008 9:10 AM | Link to this

question, i believe it has been sent to the state doe and to the psc. the information has also been posted on a couple of sites for a while. i guess when you have 2 or 3 former state doe high muckety mucks in your central office and the person recieving the graft is a former superintindant and resa director these type if things just get ignored or oked somehow. a sad state of affairs.

By Florence Mitchell

November 19, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

SACS works for some problems. However, who will conduct a self study and show itself as a failure?