Get Schooled

By Larry

November 13, 2008 10:04 AM | Link to this

This is exactly the purpose of personal days.

No, the school can’t reschedule the school calendar to accommodate every employee and neither does any other employer.

By jim d

November 13, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

OMG! she must use her three personal days for religious holidays.??

I can fix that problem with only 3 words. “Free Market Education.”

By you said it yourself

November 13, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

To answer your question, look no further than your own article. THEY CAN USE THEIR PERSONAL DAYS. State of GA test scores and graduation rates are poor enough, now teachers want religious holidays on top of 3 months off in summer, sick days, and perosnal days?????? Get real

By Sarah

November 13, 2008 2:18 PM | Link to this

One teacher complains about using her personal days for reliious holidays and you assume that all teachers are that way? Not so, Laura. Also, we are hired to work 190 days and not 365. Our pay reflexs that time. You are not paying any of us to be off for 3 months in the summer.

By flipper

November 13, 2008 2:39 PM | Link to this

Again, my decision that I must get my children away from these ridiculous public schools is affirmed. Hopefully, next year.

By Sarah is a teacher???

November 13, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

Sarah please learn how to spell before you post. You are coming across looking like a retard.

By catlady

November 13, 2008 6:01 PM | Link to this

CO staff has flex time and they get time off if they “work over”. Not so for teachers. We are set, no matter what. And your personal days cannot be before or after a holiday even if you have days accrued. Your pay is docked, no questions asked, if you are a regular teacher (no family in the CO or other favorite).

We have 11 and a bit days per year TOTAL, for EVERYTHING. No comp time, no sick and personal. You can use some of the sick for personal (3 sdays) but it is not 3 EXTRA days.

By luvs2teach

November 13, 2008 7:26 PM | Link to this

I think some of you detractors are missing the point. It’s not that teachers don’t want to use personal days for religious holidays; I think it’s that they feel school should be out for observance of said days - not just for them, but for their students of their same faith.

I have a student who just missed a slew of days for the Jewish high holidays - some other classes had to completely change their scheduled plans to accommodate the students because so many were out. I know their parents were concerned about the amount of make-up work the students had.

Our area is becoming more transient and more diverse. I work with teachers who used to work in New York, and they had Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur off. I grew up in strongly Catholic Massachusetts, and we always had Good Friday off. If the schools are closed, we’re not getting paid anyway - as someone else said, we get paid for the days we WORK only.

It’s a non-issue for me, since I am not Jewish, but I felt I had to clarify the situation because some of the first comments were clearly anti-teacher, and/or thinly-veiled, anti-Semitic. My long-term invitation still stands - if we teachers have it so good, with the summers off and all that, then why don’t you come join us…if not, then why not?

By Lee

November 13, 2008 7:50 PM | Link to this

Oh good grief…

Tell you what, this Christmas, while all you teachers are enjoying your time off with family, how about remembering the police, fire and rescue, hospital, power company, water works, grocery clerks, and the thousands upon thousands of other workers who would also like to be off, but their job requires them to be on duty.

… and y’all are complaining because you might have to TAKE A PERSONAL DAY OFF.

Give me a break.

By Spoiled Teacher

November 13, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

Hey Lee you forget the ENTIRE week for Thanksgiving!

By Lee

November 13, 2008 8:25 PM | Link to this

Oops, my bad. It’s not Christmas holidays anymore, it’s WINTER BREAK.

Let’s see, between Labor Day, Intercession, Thanksgiving, Christ er Winter Holidays, MLK Day, Presidents Day, Spring Break, Easter Break, and Memorial Day, I counted 33 days that the teachers were off this year.

Damn, I don’t think we can squeeze another holiday in there.

Ah hell, go ahead, it’s not like they’re doing anything important.

By Solution

November 13, 2008 8:55 PM | Link to this

We get 3 months off in the summer? Which months are those? Last time I checked post planning runs through the 1st week of June and pre planning starts the last 10 or so days of July. Check your facts before making stupid remarks. As far as the “holidays off”…if you would like us to babysit your kids so you can go to your job without having to worry about them, you can pay us. Our contract stipulates 190 days. Want 200 days or more? Cough up the cash. Or just deal with your kids, after all they are YOUR kids. And as one previous post said; if you think we got it SOOOOOO good, feel free to get a teaching job.

By SallyB

November 13, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Hey ,you said it yourself @1:14 Several states in the north close for the Jewish holidays as well as Christian ones……and GUESS WHAT!!!!! They score much better than GA in all academic rankings!!!!!!

By flipper

November 13, 2008 9:56 PM | Link to this

Yeah, I think I’ll go to my (private sector) boss and tell him that I’m going to need all sorts of extra holidays off. That should go well.

If you have specific religious issues… go teach at a school sponsored by that religion. There are tons of Jewish and Muslim schools around.. find one.

By luvs2teach

November 13, 2008 10:33 PM | Link to this

flipper, lee, and others - I personally wish Laura hadn’t posted this, because for most, if not all, of the people I work with, this is SUCH a non-issue, and all it does is give you more fuel to feed your anti-teacher bias.

We get paid for the 190 days we work - we don’t get paid for all those holidays. Our contracts specify our per diem. If we had those days “off” we still wouldn’t get paid for them - we would work another day instead for our per diem - an option that many private sector jobs have, I might add (my sister-in-law is Jewish and works for a Fortune 500 company that allows her to take the day off and make up the hours at another time).

Our school calendar is created by the school board - which specifically does NOT include teachers from our county, as blogged about a few weeks back. We’re not unionized, so it’s not like we have a collective bargaining agreement specifying any days off, paid or otherwise. It was parents in my county who pushed for the full week off at Thanksgiving, and it’s parents like those at Georgians Need Summers who are pushing for more time off in the summer.

If you want teachers to work more days, then get off your behinds and lobby the state - they’re the ones that determine that little law. Good luck with that.

And if you think we have it so good, with all those days off, then come do the job!!! What’s the matter? Afraid of the public perception? Afraid of the cut in pay? Afraid of dealing with the kids you won’t let your kids play with? Afraid of dealing with the kids that are yelling and screaming out of control at the grocery store? Afraid of dealing with the parents that you don’t like to associate with at your kids’ ballgame because they’re jerks? Afraid of the paperwork? Come on. What’s the matter? If we have it so good, and you know how we should do our job, then why aren’t you doing it?

I know people on here like to use the trite expression “Those who can, do; those who can’t teach.” Well, I have an expression - put up or shut up. Instead of posting pithy comments on the blog, do something to actually make public education in your community and in this state better. One of the reasons I respect jim d, despite our disagreeing opinions, is that I know he’s active in his community, putting his money where his mouth is.

Lee, I don’t know what county you live in, but we don’t have “intersession” or “Easter break” (we do have Spring break), and President’s Day is a teacher workday. Memorial Day is off, but we’re out of school by then anyway.

flipper - you little comment about “extra holidays” is pretty anti-Semitic, even if you don’t mean it that way. For Jewish people, they’re not extra - they are the holidays. I have cops in my family, and I’m thankful for the Jewish cops who would take Christmas shifts so the Christian cops could spend the day with their family. I also spent time in the military, and, since at the time I was single without a family, I would volunteer to take duty so others could be with their families on the holidays. I’ve been in the military, the private sector and in public education, and if I didn’t love what I do, I’d be out of here so fast, summers off or no summers off. I know what it’s like to work the holidays - I also know what it’s like to be grateful.

Yeah, I’m a little annoyed and fired up - this is some crappy stuff I’m reading - clearly from people who don’t understand the nature of many things, the job of teacher being the least of them.

By for the record

November 13, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

Most people who work the holidays get double or even triple time…and it’s often (though not always) a CHOICE to do so. Those who donn’t get holiday pay often get comp time. Aples to oranges, my friends, apples to oranges. Teachers aren’t getting paid to be at home…and some teachers ARE working those retail jobs, too.

It’s all about choice.

By jim d

November 14, 2008 6:51 AM | Link to this

for the record,

Teachers are government employees.

just felt that needed pointing out.

By jim d

November 14, 2008 7:11 AM | Link to this

and just for the record,

If you are having a problem comprehending my previous post—let me spell it out.

Teachers are paid with tax dollars collected from the public. They are therefore, technically and practically a Public Servant as defined by Webster.

That being said, one must not have to have an IQ of 125 or higher to grasp the concept that a public servant is there to serve the public.

At the risk of being overly obtuse, let me reitterate something I’ve long advocated. “If you don’t like your working conditions, stop complaining and, work to change them”

By Lee

November 14, 2008 7:48 AM | Link to this

Luvs, I haven’t read any posts that I would view as anti-Semite, “thinly veiled” or explicit.

I get nine holidays per year. Except for Christmas, none of them are religion based. To me, when Flipper mentioned “extra holidays,” it meanted just that, holidays in excess of those traditionally granted by the private sector employers. I didn’t read anything in Flipper’s post that I would consider anti-Semite.

I think thou doth protest too much.

By jim d

November 14, 2008 8:00 AM | Link to this

Lee,

Were anyone really aware of the origions of most christian holidays, I doubt they’d be celebrating anyway.

By Sarah

November 14, 2008 8:04 AM | Link to this

I am sorry that my type-o makes me a retard. I guess I am the only one who ever makes a mistake. One thing I did want to point out is that the extention of the holiday time in public schools came about in part because parents (and some educators) wanted the time to travel to be with family during the holidays.

I would love it if we taught 220 days a year. Many of our students have to be remediated at the beginning of every year.

If I didn’t love my job, I wouldn’t have stuck with it for 35 years.

By Tony

November 14, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

Well, here goes. I didn’t think this topic deserved a post because, to me, this issue is moot. We work our days or take the day off using our personal leave. Now that religion has been injected into the dialogue, I’ll add my two-cents.

Generally, I do not invoke my religious views into these discussions because these are deeply personal. My choice to observe my chosen faith is not an issue between me and my employer - in this case, the state. They have graciously allowed me to have up to three personal days a year and this is a very generous gesture for which I am extremely grateful. I will gladly use those days as needed.

To provide arrangements to meet religious obligations for teachers would be an issue that is rapidly becoming more complex as diversity increases. Whose religious holidays do we include in our flex plans? Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Native Americans or any of the other multitudes of religions now represented in our population? The bottom line is that we can not develop calendars that meet the religious demands of all these groups nor should we try.

Three personal days per year is more than sufficient.

By bearcasey

November 14, 2008 9:11 AM | Link to this

One aspect being ignored here (especially for males) is COACHING. I had six positions in my 31 year career and all my jobs except the last one (I was old by then) were contingent on my coaching sports. Now, don’t get me wrong, I love coaching but the extra pay is pitiful except for the head football coach which I wasn’t. The reason I bring this up is that our teams often played or practiced on holidays.

By for the record

November 14, 2008 9:54 AM | Link to this

jim d - your first post to me and your subsequent explanation made no sense to me. Perhaps you didn’t understand my point. I was referring to Lee’s post about “the police, fire and rescue, hospital, power company, water works, grocery clerks, and the thousands upon thousands of other workers”, some of whom also are “government employees” like teachers, and most of whom get additional financial incentive or compensation to work those days. Teachers can get all the additional days off in the world, but they are not going to get paid for them.

It’s an “apples and oranges” situation, and the two cannot be fairly compared.

Since I am non-religious, I don’t give a rat’s behind anyway - I’ll work on my contracted days, and then some - I’m not the one complaining in my school (but some of the parents sure are).

Where you work is a choice.

By jim d

November 14, 2008 11:29 AM | Link to this

for the record,

thanks for the clarification. My Bad, seems I took “Most people” to mean MOST PEOPLE Duh, silly me!

We are in agreement on the where you work is a choice issue. One day, perhaps, we will be able to say where you go to school is a choice issue. ;)

By jim d & palin in 2012

November 14, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

“One day, perhaps, we will be able to say where you go to school is a choice issue. ;)”

retard musings from a Sarah Palin backer. oh please tell rethugly where the money to build these extra “choice” schools is going to come from?

By Private School Guy

November 14, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

I worked at a Jewish school and they let me take a personal day for good Friday with no questions asked. I just think most of these complaints come from people who work lousy jobs where their employers do nothing to maintain quality staff and keep moral high. So much for the free market issue.

By jim d

November 14, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Thats a simple task.

Take it from the same pot that obama will be using for all of his social restructing plans.

By luvs2teach

November 14, 2008 12:42 PM | Link to this

Lee - I’d be willing to buy your version if it weren’t for flipper’s snarky “go to a Jewish school” comment.

I was a little heated last night, I’ll admit. I was pretty mad that something that I have NEVER heard another teacher complain about turn into another teacher-bashing opportunity. My comment about teachers from New York talking about having the Jewish holidays off was in a conversation prompted by STUDENT absenteeism, not teacher complaints.

I love what I do, but I hate the public perception, and I’m getting pretty vocal about it. I’m tired of being blamed for things outside of the realm of my control: what happens in my classroom.

By Meme

November 14, 2008 12:43 PM | Link to this

LOL My students complained that they were not off on Veterans Day. We had a lesson on the day even though it is not part of the state standards.

By for the record

November 14, 2008 12:48 PM | Link to this

jim d - the original post said “most people who work the holidays” - not sure how that is confusing.

I’m for school choice, too, if it will mean we can choose our students, too. I can guarantee better results with better raw material.

By Lee

November 14, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

Luvs, I still gotta stick up for Flipper. What he/she said was:

“If you have specific religious issues… go teach at a school sponsored by that religion. There are tons of Jewish and Muslim schools around.. find one.”

I just don’t see where he/she was bashing anybody.

By luvs2teach

November 14, 2008 2:16 PM | Link to this

Lee - fair enough, as you know tone is missing from a blog, and it’s both easy to miscontrue as well as as input your own inner voice. Flipper’s posts on this and other blogs (assuming it’s the same person) are often aggressive and negative - at least to me, IMO. I’m sure that affected my perception.

By high school teacher

November 14, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

I, for one, don’t complain about the lack of holidays that I receive. I did have a student who was recently gone for three weeks for some sort of religious reasons (October 9-30 - don’t know what observance that was for). I can’t imagine her being able to hold a job in the real world.

BTW, we went from three days at Thanksgiving to five days because the students simply didn’t come the first two days of the week anymore. It got worse post 911, when the airlines really increased their fares. I had students who visited extended family nation-wide and did so the old-fahsioned way.

By catlady

November 14, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

If ignorance was butter we could cut it with a knife. Not just Jews and Muslims keep different, non-mainstream accepted calendars. For example, the Christian group called Seventh Day Adventists do not do business or work from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. I am supposed to be at school helping with a fall fair tonight (we need to “entertain” our students and their families, in addition to all the other things we do) but I am not there because I keep the Sabbath.

By middleschoolteacher

November 15, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

Laura, Do you ever regret choosing a topic? I know this is a blog, but wasn’t this topic just an open invitation to indict all teachers just because you spoke to one on a plane about her desire to be off on religious holidays. I love my job, my pay, my time off, my students, and most all the aspects of my career choice. I don’t know that many people who would say that!