Get Schooled

By Tony

October 27, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

The vaccination laws’ enforcement has been designed to rest solely on the school principals. The only real penalty for parents is the exclusion of the child from school. Theoretically, this could get the parent hauled into court for lack of attendance. The penalty against principals for failure to enforce the law is $100.00 for each violation.

Here are some problems I have had with vaccination records over the years. First, the state requires a specific form. Sometimes doctors’ offices have used an older version of the form to report vaccinations. The parent must be sent back to retrieve the correct form.

Second, doctors’ offices have not given doses of vaccines at the proper ages or intervals. This error is the most common I have seen. Sometimes, a child receives the dose just a few days earlier than the specified age or waiting period. The form is rejected by the school and the doctors become furious with our staff. Yet, doctors are not the ones who will be cited for a violation of this law, only school principals.

Now, in trying to correct some of the errors on vaccination forms, doctors offices invoke patient privacy laws and are not allowed to talk with school personnel to clear up vaccination form errors. Who loses? The child.

This non-educational issue is too strongly associated with students’ health for it to be ignored. However, community leaders need to work to combat the problem without resorting to bashing the schools. Health departments, doctors, parents and community leaders need to be held accountable for such lax health standards. What are their plans to combat the problem? Have local boards of health sponsored community vaccination drives? Has the board of commisioners supported the health department with efforts to reach every child with vaccines? How wide-ranging are their efforts?

By Jeff

October 27, 2008 8:45 AM | Link to this

Government does not have the proper authority to force anyone to have an unknown substance injected into them particularly when this substance is DESIGNED to be DANGEROUS at best, and possibly LETHAL.

Therefore the whole discussion of “Should students be barred from school until they have all their shots?” and “Whose job is it to enforce immunization requirements?” is moot.

By mmmm

October 27, 2008 9:22 AM | Link to this

I have no idea what planet Jeff is from. Every medication has possible undesirable effects, but are they designed to be dangerous?

By HS Teacher, Too

October 27, 2008 9:26 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

I stayed quiet through your rantings on Friday, but seriously?

Tony,

Thanks for explaning the issue so well. As a parent, it is frustrating to me that there are students whose parents are not being held accountable. I can understand that there are some parents who are opposed to immunizations, but I take issue with their being able to put my child in potential danger. To find out that the administrative aspect of the law makes this problem worse is troubling to me. But I don’t want to complain without proposing a solution. From your perspective, what potential remedies do you see?

By TheBlogger

October 27, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Um, Jeff, it isn’t an “unknown substance.” All vacinations are known. It isn’t that people are randomly shooting an odd liquid into an arm.

Yes, all students enrolled in public schools are required to have specific shots - that is a law. If the students don’t have these, then they should not be in schools or in any grouping of the general public. They are a public health risk.

And, it seems that the ultimate authority to ensure that the law is followed falls on the school’s administration.

By Jeff

October 27, 2008 9:37 AM | Link to this

mmmm:

Vaccines, by their very creation, are injecting DANGEROUS VIRUSES into your system. Now, the makers SAY they are ‘weakened’. You as a consumer have ZERO proof of that claim.

And when it comes to some of these viruses, remember: they were once the greatest KILLERS around.

Further note that most viruses have NO KNOWN CURE. We can at BEST treat the SYMPTOMS.

So here we have known KILLERS -supposedly ‘weakened’ but with no PROOF that they actually are - and you want me to WILLINGLY inject them INSIDE my kids’ bodies?

It is hard enough to defend against creatures big enough to SEE, and you’re telling me to trust you with my kids and MICROSCOPIC KILLING MACHINES???

And that’s not even counting the veritable cocktail of substances used in the vaccines other than the virus itself. Thimerseral (MERCURY derivative thought to play a hand in the rise of AUTISM) anyone?

By Jeff

October 27, 2008 9:41 AM | Link to this

HST2:

As has been said over at Momania recently when talking about vaccinations:

If YOUR child is vaccinated and MINE is not, YOUR child is NOT at risk.

So you and your ‘government’ can stay OUT of MY business.

By HS Teacher, Too

October 27, 2008 10:10 AM | Link to this

Jeff,

It’s your government, as well. Or are you not a citizen?

I don’t care what they are saying at “Momania,” beacuse what you’ve quoted to me is incorrect. The fact is that if my child has been vaccinated and yours has not, your child contracts the disease against which my child was vaccinated, and our two kids interact, my child is, in fact, at some risk. You might argue that the risk is de minimus, but it is still there. Immunizations work best when the population is immunized. People who are not immunized represent weak links in the chain, and are the entry points for the disease to infect the population. Some of those who end up infected will be infected despite having been immunized.

Please don’t bother responding with whatever amazing scientific knowledge you have to show me just how wrong I am and just how right you are, with your caps-and-bold emphasis on every other word. We all know you know everything. Let the rest of us debate what we “think” we know and you just sit back and watch, okay? We all need the practice stretching our inferior brains and testing our Internet research skills.

By LJ

October 27, 2008 10:12 AM | Link to this

Jeff, If your child is not vaccinated, and my child is too young to be vaccinated, then your voluntarily unvaccinated child is a potentially lethal risk to my child, who will be vaccinated at the appropriate age.

If you have a problem with government mandated vaccines, then you can keep your unvaccinated child out of government funded schools.

By Ban them!

October 27, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

NO student should be allowed into public or private school OR daycare unless he/she has been vaccinated. How dare anyone suggest that it is okay for a child to bot be vaccinated. I agree with the person who called those unvaccinated children “parasites”.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 10:30 AM | Link to this

To whom it may concern,

Most health care plans will pay of a vasectomy.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this

ooops!!

That may have been a parapraxis.

By Tony

October 27, 2008 11:01 AM | Link to this

Possible improvements to the law include placing the emphasis of community health on the elected body responsible for the community - the board of commisioners. This is the body that approves the local health department budget and it is the body that could promote immunization efforts.

Work with schools to identify problems with immunizations records and rectify the problems at the sources - doctors offices, health centers, or families. School principals should not be the sole person responsible for the enforcement of immunization laws.

There are plenty of studies available that show a clear link between healthcare of children and school achievement. Maybe it’s time we started caring about how all children’s healthcare is provided in our state.

By mmmm

October 27, 2008 11:12 AM | Link to this

I have never seen such an amazing display of ignorance, and in particular lack of scientific understanding, shown by Jeff. I sure hope you have no kid - for that matter, I hope your parents never gave you any vaccination. By the way, are you related to that lawyer who traveled by plane with tuberculosis? Now I really understand the problem with science education in the US.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 11:17 AM | Link to this

Tony,

“Maybe it’s time we started caring about how all children’s healthcare is provided in our state.”

Then again maybe we should start caring about the availability of Vasclip implants for those deemed manifestly psychotic or otherwise of unsound mind, either consistently or sporadically, by reason of mental defect, among which are retardation, schizophrenia or other acute hallucinatory and delusory defects of mind, certain types of epilepsy and other seizure disorders which render the individual coordinated and mobile but of unsound mind, bipolar disorder which results in sporadic psychosis (but not simply mild or moderate bipolar disorder), and other disorders which consistently or sporadically render the individual starkly incapable of maintaining awareness of and responsibility for his actions.

By TheBlogger

October 27, 2008 11:45 AM | Link to this

Jeff Pray tell your answer to this question, considering your stance on vaccinations….

There are certain parts of the world where if you travel to them from the US, you are required by law to get specific vaccinations, regardless of age (there are also some that are optional/recommended). Are you also against that law?

Just curious as to your position here….

By Jeff

October 27, 2008 11:50 AM | Link to this

mmmm:

Actually, the problem you have with me is not my LACK of understanding of Science.

It is my ACCURATE understanding of Science you have a problem with.

You see, the greatest threat to the status quo is NOT the uninformed person, nor is it the person who readily accepts one ideology or another.

The greatest threat to the status quo is someone who understands the issues INTIMATELY AND who is genuinely open minded.

Quite simply, I believe NOTHING until I see it with my own two eyes.

As to the ‘they are not unknown substances’ charge above:

Did you test the substance yourself to make sure it was exactly what you were told it was, containing exactly the ingredients you were told it contained? Or did you have BLIND FAITH in things and people that you rarely - if ever - had encountered before?

After all, there are hundreds - if not thousands - of POISONS that visually are a clear liquid…

By Jef

October 27, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Blogger:

Yes, I am. Quite simply, the government has been allowed to grow FAR beyond what our Founding Fathers ever DARED fear. Sadly, this can be traced back to at least a scant century after the Constitution came to be. Now, do I think those early Populists and others would have ever wanted the level of government we have now? Maybe an EXTREME minority of them, but by and large it seems that you have to wait until the Great Depression and FDR before you really see an explosion of pro-Big Government types. Coincidentally, it was around these times - 1880s thru 1930s - that you began to see compulsory attendance laws spring up. But hey, that’s not such a big coincidence…

Simply put, Government has three legitimate functions:

1) Protect the citizenry against murder and theft of property. (life)

2) Protect the citizenry from outside attack. (liberty)

3) Provide a valued, stable currency / Protect the citizenry against theft of property (pursuit of happiness)

NOWHERE within that does Government have the right to tell us what we must do in any event other than if we wish to murder or steal.

Interestingly enough, in 2008 - 221 years after the Constitution - can anyone REALLY say that the government we have now effectively does ANY of those three things??

By LJ

October 27, 2008 12:07 PM | Link to this

So Jeff, do you grow all your own food? Do you use soap or shampoo or anything that you don’t see prepared with your own two eyes? That argument is possibly the most asinine thing you’ve posted to date.

By the way, you have not in any way demonstrated any understanding of science or the scientific process. But for you, I don’t suppose that matters, since if you can’t see it with your own two eyes it isn’t true.

By Leia

October 27, 2008 12:09 PM | Link to this

jim d - I understand the point that you’re trying to make, but, that is a very scary concept! My father suffers from a seizure disorder, and cannot drive at this point.

I do believe that there ought to be some sort of IQ test or test of basic common sense (if such a test exists!) that should be administered before people are allowed to procreate!

By jim d

October 27, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

“Did you test the substance yourself to make sure it was exactly what you were told it was, containing exactly the ingredients you were told it contained? Or did you have BLIND FAITH in things and people that you rarely - if ever - had encountered before?”

Damn Jeff,

Seek help. your comments fit squarely into being “psychotic or otherwise of unsound mind, either consistently or sporadically, by reason of mental defect, among which are retardation, schizophrenia or other acute hallucinatory and delusory defects of mind,”

By Teacher, Too

October 27, 2008 12:13 PM | Link to this

Please correct me if I’m wrong (and I’m sure someone will), but isn’t there a vaccination against TB?

Because there are students who aren’t innoculated against TB, we’ve had numerous outbreaks at schools in Gwinnett County. I had to be tested for TB when I taught in Gwinnett— twice.

There’s no reason to put other people at risk.

By Jeff

October 27, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

LJ:

So you refute the fact that a vaccine is a ‘weakened’ virus mixed in with other ‘stabilization’ compounds?

Do we need to start talking about RNA and phasing - among other things - for you to know I know EXACTLY what I am talking about?

Just FYI: At one point, my goal in life was to find a cure for Ebola. TRUST me, I learned quite a bit about viruses, particularly some of the nastier ones, during that time.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

Leia,

I agree it is scary. But being quite frank, I have a grandchild who I pray never has children, not because I don’t want to be a great grand dad and not because of who he/she is but more because of his/her circumstance. I just feel children need and deserve parents that are capable of giving them the VERY best. With-holding medical assistance that could save their life doesn’t fit into my thinking of best care.

By Jeff

October 27, 2008 12:23 PM | Link to this

jim:

Definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

What has John Q Public been doing for the past 50 years? Turning to the government for every little problem. Government takes over and makes the problem a BIG problem. John Q Public then turns to the government AGAIN to solve the BIG problem, and of course government does what it does best and makes the problem even BIGGER.

All the while, John Q really wants the problem SOLVED.

hmmm….

By Sarah

October 27, 2008 12:24 PM | Link to this

We cannot prevent students with HIV from attending school. Why should we be able to stop those who haven’t had the measles vaccine?

By mmmm

October 27, 2008 12:26 PM | Link to this

The greatest threat to mankind is those who know a little but think know everything. Skepticism is an important characteristics of science. On the other hand, trusting other scientists’ experiments is also a critical component of any scientific activity.

On the one hand Jeff’s stance may be commendable, but I am 99.99% certain that he does not practice what he says in every aspect of his life.

Again, I sure hope he has no child and exposing thousands of others for dangerous illness for his ignorance (not to mention his own child’s well being - if he has any).

By jim d

October 27, 2008 12:30 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

As usual you opt not to look at the hard numbers (facts if you will)

“People forget too quickly the horrors of sicknesses like polio. In 1954, the year before Jonas Salk introduced his vaccine, the virus killed more than 3,000 Americans and crippled roughly 20,000 others. Today the United States has been effectively polio- free for more than a quarter century. That success story is hardly unique. A century ago, before childhood immunization became routine in America, the upper-respiratory infection known as diphtheria was a worse killer than cancer. Now the United States gets an average of three cases a year. Whooping cough, measles, mumps and rubella have become rarities in America. Wider vaccine coverage could further reduce the burden of other important illnesses already in decline, like hepatitis A, hepatitis B, chickenpox and invasive disease from Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib for short), a bacterial meningitis that can cause deafness or mental retardation in children when it doesn’t kill them outright.”

And For Leah

By jim d

October 27, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

Sarah,

You can’t be serious. Comparing the AIDS virus to ARI’s??

By PJ

October 27, 2008 12:33 PM | Link to this

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Ol’ Ben knew what he was talking about.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 12:35 PM | Link to this

My bad—“other airborne diseases.”

Sorry I had been reading an article on ARI (acute respiratory infections)

By Jeff

October 27, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

That same medical intervention has also COST lives.

My own parenting ideas are pretty well known. I don’t mind letting my kids take risks in areas that I can control, and would actually prefer them to get hurt in those situations than later in life. (The well known example of I wouldn’t do anything to stop my 3 yr old from touching a hot stove other than advise him that it will hurt, then laugh at him when he starts screaming that it hurts. Of course, at that point I would also evaluate him to make sure he didn’t do any lasting damage.)

Point that is relevant here: As powerful as I am, and as many resources as I have, I have NOTHING that can do ANYTHING about a microbe once it is inside my kid’s body. Something as small as an ant, I can see and deal with. Something as large as a person, I can see and deal with. Buildings falling/ earth moving/ debris being scattered by a tornado/etc, I can see and deal with.

Vaccines are OPTIONAL, and like any other OPTIONAL medical procedure, I see ZERO point in putting myself or my kid through it without a DANG good reason.

Oh, and before you can question my ‘as many resources as I have’ comment: Remember: The poorest American has MANY times as many resources available to him as 98% of the rest of the world. Therefore, with me being solidly ‘middle class’ America, I have a few times the resources of the poorest Americans, which means I am probably more able to respond to things my family needs than 99% of the entire world population. A fact quite a few Americans - even many on this board - would do well to remember about themselves as well.

By SARAH!!!

October 27, 2008 12:40 PM | Link to this

HIV is only passed through blood, saliva and semen. Methinks HIV is quite a bit different than measles and mumps.
YIKES!

By SARAH!!!

October 27, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

HIV is only passed through blood, saliva and semen. Methinks HIV is quite a bit different than measles and mumps.
YIKES!

By SARAH!!!

October 27, 2008 12:41 PM | Link to this

HIV is only passed through blood, saliva and semen. Methinks HIV is quite a bit different than measles and mumps.
YIKES!

By jim d

October 27, 2008 12:45 PM | Link to this

As powerful as I am

You gotta be shi##in me Jeff!!!

By jim d

October 27, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Well my definition of madness has just been changed to = Jeff

By Harper's Mama

October 27, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Jeff, do you send your children to public school?

By mmmm

October 27, 2008 12:54 PM | Link to this

Well, it looks like Jeff has a nice companion in Sarah. We really need to get serious about improving science education in the United States.

By Jeff

October 27, 2008 12:55 PM | Link to this

Jim:

Population of US in 1954 was ~ 163 million.

Total percent of population affected: 0.014

More people died of CAR ACCIDENTS that year than were affected by polio….

By jim d

October 27, 2008 12:56 PM | Link to this

Hey Jeff,

Enough of this foolishness. Truth of the matter is that if you express your thoughts on this matter with T, we won’t have to be concerned with the two of you ever having children

By Jeff

October 27, 2008 12:58 PM | Link to this

jim:

Did you read the comment at the end of that post?

By jim d

October 27, 2008 1:01 PM | Link to this

Harper’s Mama,

Jeff doesn’t have kids. We can only pray he never does.

By Leia

October 27, 2008 1:05 PM | Link to this

jim d - Is it a full moon? I actually agree with you again! I have a cousin who would do any child a disservice by being his/her parent. I won’t comment further, but, she is delusional and would probably make her child just as crazy as she is.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Yeah Jeff, and as a result of people being killed in car accidents we now require safety belts. You going to be one of those parents driving down the road at 70 mph with your kid on your lap?

By V for Vendetta

October 27, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

“I believe nothing unless I see it with my own two eyes.”

LOL, Jeff. Weren’t you the one so ardently defending your FAITH and your belief in God on Friday? Weren’t you the one talking about believing in something that we can neither see nor touch?

You were also the one who admitted to being (something like) twenty-five years old a while back. I believe it was when you were also talking about how you could beat anyone up, etc.

Stop being baited by Jeff, everyone. He might be twenty-fivish, but he has the collective intelligence of a shovel.

Sorry for the obvious attack, but you’re being uber-ridiculous today.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 1:10 PM | Link to this

Jeff,

You know, I’ve seen you wrong on these bloggs in the past couple of years, But never this damn wrong.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 1:14 PM | Link to this

V,

Maybe Jeff needs to have his perscription checked—cause it ain’t working.

By PHJ

October 27, 2008 1:17 PM | Link to this

Teacher too, there is no vaccination against TB. Sorry.

By Immuno

October 27, 2008 1:35 PM | Link to this

Jeff, you clearly know as little about immunology as you do about most topics. Very few vaccines contain a live virus. Most contain fragment of the virus, or an attenuated virus. Some, like the oral polio vaccine, do contain a weakened strain of the virus and can potentially cause illness. For this reason, the oral polio vaccine is given only in endemic countries.

By adme

October 27, 2008 1:39 PM | Link to this

PHJ - there is a vaccine against TB. It is commonly given in Europe. It isn’t used in the US because it has a low efficacy rate and once vaccinated, an individual will have a positive reaction to the TB skin test.

By Jeff

October 27, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

V:

Actually, the evidence IS there that there must at a minimum be some form of Supreme Being.

From that point, we begin looking at the various beliefs throughout the world.

And the ONLY one that holds up to historical scrutiny of its beliefs is Christianity.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 1:47 PM | Link to this

PHJ,

Actually there is a vaccine for TB, just isn’t widley used in the US.

“BCG” but it is often given to infants and small children in other countries where TB is common.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 1:55 PM | Link to this

Damn V,

Now ya went and done it!!

By Leia

October 27, 2008 2:04 PM | Link to this

Let us all pray to whatever deity each of us believes in for Jeff’s future children.

Anyone who would laugh at a 3 year old who burned his hand needs his head examined.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 2:08 PM | Link to this

Leis,

We gotta quit agreeing like this!!

By V for Vendetta

October 27, 2008 2:20 PM | Link to this

Jeff, you’ve seen God with your own two eyes? No? Jesus then? No? Then what evidence have you seen with “your own two eyes?”

Please, for the love of [deity], give it up.

By LJ

October 27, 2008 2:36 PM | Link to this

Jeff, I really enjoy the way you ignore 3/4 of my comments. But I can assure you that I know quite a lot about viruses, and even more about the immune system. If that’s something you want to argue about, bring it on. As Immuno mentioned, very few vaccines are live attenuated.

By jim d

October 27, 2008 2:45 PM | Link to this

Jeffery,

I’m a bit confused. How do you reconcile your comments today with your profession of faith yesterday when this text exists? Ezekiel 34:1-4

By Larry

October 27, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Jimd is correct (I can’t believe I just typed that) about BCG. Also, it is only effective against pediatric TB, which is rare in the United States, and ineffective against adult pulmonary TB. Since immunization causes false positives in standard tests we use to identify adolescent/adult infections, its use here is considered counter-productive.

Jeff, I admire your courage in publicly admitting you can’t see microbes. While self-diagnosis and self-treatment for your visual defect are in progress, consider asking the microbes questions about how we can eradicate them. Microbes sometimes lie to me, so take their answers with a grain of Ringer’s saline solution.

By catlady

October 27, 2008 4:30 PM | Link to this

I have a real problem with students who put my health and those of my other students and their families at risk. Our school is very aggressive with the vaccination forms. I am glad about that. If you don’t want your kid immunized, home school them.

Now, if we could do something about using attendance for NCLB, that would be great. God help us, if the bird flu or something similiar gets out, we are as good as dead. A kid has to have a raging fever or be vomiting blood to be sent home from our school.

Teachers and students are exposed to some degree frequently by kids who are on TB medicine because they or someone in their family has tested positive for it or just for exposure. Parents would be horrified if they knew this. It is quite frequent among our immigrant children. Teachers are not notified of which or even whether a kid is under treatment. This is wrong. I have been hospitalized quite a few times and loss serious income due to people sending their kids to school sick.

MANY people who work at the local chicken processing plant are under treatment, also. The health dept has someone whose job it is to go to the plant and make sure the workers take their meds. You want slaw with that fried chicken?

Is it any wonder so many folks suffer from the viral load we have circulating?

By jim d

October 27, 2008 4:34 PM | Link to this

Larry,

I expect to see that in print again after next Tuesday.

By DB

October 27, 2008 4:58 PM | Link to this

Jeff, you are young and inexperienced in the ways of the world — either that, or you’re bored and you’re just trying to poke a stick in the hornet’s nest. I know you think you are some sort of Renaissance Tenhno-Macho Man, and have built up this alternate reality inside your head, but the more I read your posts, dear, the more worried I am about the idea of you and T. having children. However, I comfort myself that “no battle plan survies the first encounter with the enemy”, and that parenthood will be quite a shock to your system if and when it comes around.

Now, to business:

You have the right to refuse whatever vaccinations you wish for you and your children. Have at it, enjoy. You feel safe (do NOT get me going on “microbes you can’t see”, because, honestly, that just sounds ignorant) because you don’t hear about these diseases much any more — there’s a reason for that — because everyone you know is vaccinated!! DUH! I came along before these vaccines — and I had almost every single one of them, including whooping cough, chicken pox, mumps, red and German measles, etc., etc. And I did NOT grow up in a hovel — far from it. The red measles had me out of school for over three weeks, and permanently damaged my eyesight. Kids DIE from this cr@p, guy, and it is so easily preventable. You don’t remember what it was like when the kid down the street died of chicken pox, or the teenager that had the mumps ended up sterile due to a rare complication. Or the kid who ended up with meningitis because of the measles.

Anyway, for those of you who choose not to be vaccinated or have your children vaccinated — I respect that choice. Now, you must now respect my choice NOT to expose my children to you or your children, because I have absolutely no desire to be exposed to whatever you drag home from the ever-increasing immigrant population we have. You think you’re safe, because the rest of us are vaccinated — talk about the ultimate selfishness. “You guys go get vaccinated, then I don’t have to worry.”

The vaccinations serve a good purpose. If you, as a parent, choose not to vaccinate, then you forego the privilege of making use of a public school. Simple as that. Why don’t you just homeschool, if you’re that paranoid?

By Ignore Jeff the Troll

October 27, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

The more I read his comments the more I think Jeff is some pimply faced nerd with nothing better to do.

By love my 4 kids

October 27, 2008 5:40 PM | Link to this

Jim and the so called “teachers” on this board make me SICK! Is there a vaccine to protect my children from the likes of you???? As many of you “regulars” know, from the beginning, Jeff let it be known that he has Asperger’s Syndrome. He is obviously very intelligent, but is sometimes limited in his social expressions. Ironically, one of the suspect contributing factors to the rise in the occurence of autism are vaccines! This is still being hotly debated. One family recently won a vaccine case against the government for their autistic child. I know about this personally. One of my children at about 9 months, soon after a series of shots, became very ill for a week. He could not stand up (he had recently been walking), his leg was very swollen where he received the shot, and he ran a high fever for several days. I had to spoon feed him crushed ice for a day because that was all he would take. The doctor told me it was “just a virus”. By the age of two, it was obvious that he had delayed speech, and would often scream and constantly bit his siblings. No doctor could tell me what was wrong with him. By three, he could talk, but would obviously need speech therapy to be understood. Yet even with this, it was obvious that he had a very strong intellect, perhaps in the gifted range. His socialization skills were not normal. Through trial and error and my own research, I stumbled upon Aspbergers’ Syndrome, a perfect fit for his symptoms. His doctor concurred. It was not until recently that I have read about a connection between this condition and tainted vaccines. From personal experience, I think Jeff makes some very valid points and certainly does not deserve the VICIOUS BULLYING you have sent his way. Why don’t you enlighten your darkened little pea brains and read what others have had to say on this subject. Vaccine safety has been questioned for years…

http://www.whale.to/vaccines/money_mag.html

Just a thought- if Native Americans had had vaccines, there would probably be no “white Euro” United States of America and we wouldn’t even be having this conversation… Survival of the fittest, right?.

Also, for all of the vaccine fans posting, could you please post all of the vaccines that have a 100% safety record? While you hope everyone else’s child is in that 1-10% risk factor, I would pray that yours are not. Hitler would feel right at home with your opinions.

By Tony

October 27, 2008 5:45 PM | Link to this

jim d, when I taught 8th grade we used to joke about marking the rosters for the state to prevent certain ones from reproducing!

Looks like I missed interacting with some of the most ridiculous of one blogger’s remarks today. To further add to the discussion in favor of vaccination let me quote that famous TV doctor House.It goes something like this, “There is another company that makes little white boxes for parents to use instead of vaccinating their child.”

To knowingly let a child put a hand on a hot stove is wreckless endangerment. There is no good lesson that could come from behavior like that.

By LJ

October 27, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

love my 4 kids, can you post anything at all that has a 100% safety record? (By the way, citing whale.to and throwing in a Hitler comment is sufficient for me to no longer respond to your comments. Yikes!) And what valid points does Jeff make? (Just out of curiosity…)

By lovin life

October 27, 2008 6:04 PM | Link to this

It is very easy for all of you to throw stones. Do any of you have a vaccine injured child? Walk a mile in my shoes or the shoes of many of my other Special Mom friends. Then you will know why E and Baby B are vaccinated on a schedule that is different than most. They will eventually recieve their vaccines but not at the regular schedule.
As for Jeff, I agree with his basic idea. I think he tends to go a bit far when everyone jumps on him, but I agree with his basic thought! I know I can’t believe I said that. I said it 2 weeks a go in Mommania too!

By love my 4 kids

October 27, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

“jim d, when I taught 8th grade we used to joke about marking the rosters for the state to prevent certain ones from reproducing!”

Wow! Tony, thanks for cutting through your usual government school P.C. drivel, and telling us what you really think! Since you are always so proud to present yourself as a government employee in the “respectable position” of PRINCIPAL, why don’t you also tell us your last name and the school where you work. I’m quite sure that parents with children in your school would love to hear your true opinions! I guess it’s easy for you to pick on someone with Aspberger’s Syndrome, who by the way, is far more intelligent than you. Isn’t it about time for you to retire and get in on the “part time job” double dipping? With brains like yours, I’m sure you already have a nice “consultant” job waiting in the wings. Hey, isn’t that what tax money is for? By the way, I love to print out what all the wonderful government school teachers post so that my children can read for themselves what these teachers really think of parents and children. They don’t have to take my word for it. Nothing like a little “scientific evidence,” eh?

By what a dumbass

October 27, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

If you really had love for your kids you would drive them to Nebraska and leave them at a hospital where someone with brains could raise them. Too bad people can’t be vaccinated against “stupid”, you & Jeff would need a double dose!

By parents against poor parenting, inc.

October 27, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

Teachers aren’t the only ones who think some parents are poor parents - other parents do, too! We think that when we see unruly children in public. We think that when we hear stories about what other kids are allowed to do from our children. We think that when a child is a guest in our house and displays all sorts of bad manners…so on and so forth. Give the teachers a break - most of you non-teachers wouldn’t last a day in a classroom - I know I couldn’t do it.

On topic, I have friends who for philosophical and/or religious reasons have chosen not to vaccinate their children. Personally, I think they are taking a risk, but I also believe it is their risk to choose to take. While I had my daughter get most of her vaccines on schedule when she was younger, I didn’t not have her get the HepB until she went to college (she was not sexually active in high school, nor did she work with blood - her college required the vaccine). I also chose not to have her get the new vaccine for cervical cancer - the benefit doesn’t outweigh the risk, in my opinion.

By lovin life

October 27, 2008 8:08 PM | Link to this

Love 4 my kids, you were spot on! Thank you!

By tom

October 27, 2008 10:07 PM | Link to this

I suppose any parent has the right to not to vaccinate their children - just as much as some parents refusing blood transfusion. However, unlike blood transfusion, unvaccinated kids can pose risk to other kids, therefore, those parents should proceed with the understanding that their children will not be allowed in schools. This is a lawful country, and the law says kids must be vaccinated in order to attend schools. Take (or not) whatever the action but please accept the consequence which is spelled out for you.

By V for Vendetta

October 27, 2008 10:44 PM | Link to this

Love 4 My Kids,

Holy walking beef pile, you are a lunatic. First off, put down the Jenny McCarthy book and try looking at some statistical research for a change. You claim that vaccinations do not have a 100% safety record. This is true. Then again, neither do seat belts, air bags, or anti lock breaks, but I don’t see you filing lawsuits against the auto industry. People could be physically maimed or incapacitated for life as a result of an injury sustained from one of those devices, but we still require them to be fit on ALL of the cars we drive, correct? I believe it has something to do with the vast majority.

Sure, point the finger at Asperger’s if you like. People argue that autism in its many forms is on the rise. This is also true, but so is the diagnosis. In fact, some numbers indicate a direct correlation between the “increase” in autism and the increase in the so-called “trendy” diagnosis. The same could be said for ADD, which is also currently considered a “trendy” diagnosis.

Though it might be insensitive, back in the day we called kids like Jeff things like “weirdo” and “jerk.” We refused to play with them because of the way they acted. As a result, they were ostracized and left to their own devices. Because they couldn’t interact with others in a somewhat civilized and “normal” manner, they were excluded from the group. I’m sorry, but I see no harm in that. I’m all for trying to help a kid “mainstream” or whatever the buzz word of the month is, but if they just don’t “get it” then forget them. Some of us would call that Social Darwinism. Others call it being mean.

Unfortunately life isn’t a feel good pat on the back. Even at its most civilized and refined level, it is a competition between the haves and the have nots (whether it be on the grounds of intelligence, opportunity, or simply monetary in nature). Thems the breaks, and those who can’t adapt slip through the cracks and cease to exist.

Long story short, forgive me if your pleas fall on deaf ears. And forgive me if I have little patience for Jeff’s ignorant ranting. Some of us prefer to exist in a rational world where people display a modicum of intelligent thought and try very hard not to type in all caps or refer to how powerful they are. If you seek pity or would like to pity others then go join the Peace Corp. or something.

By love my 4 kids

October 27, 2008 11:16 PM | Link to this

lovin life Sometimes you’ve just got to stand up and be counted. I guess this topic hits a little close to home. I’m sorry your child has had to suffer. By your name, it sounds like you are handling things well : )

By love my 4 kids

October 27, 2008 11:48 PM | Link to this

Thank you for your comments. I will let my Asperger child read it. And when we are forced to quit home schooling because of the implementation of Obama’s “womb to tomb for all” education plan, I will use it to justify our “non-compliance” with an unconstitutional law. And for the record, what grade and subjects do you teach? BTW I have a sibling who works in special ed. She said that there is a real total increase in autism numbers, not just from better diagnostics. But then, what does she know. FYI just Google “100% safety record.” And PLEASE never fly Quantas. Also, I would hope that you would send us a thank you note every time you get a paycheck. I teach my children to show gratitude to those who give them money or gifts. Or did you think it came from the Tax Fairy? Just keep on inspiring and loving children. They are our future, you know. You will always reap what you sow. My, how Darwinian!

By love my 4 kids

October 28, 2008 12:13 AM | Link to this

Vendetta

Here’s another 100% safety record. It never misses a beat…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

By jimd

October 28, 2008 4:02 AM | Link to this

Luvsmy4,

Last i heard the jury was still out on the causes of AS.

There seems to be a hereditary component to AS, and research indicates that in some cases AS may be associated with other mental health disorders such as depression and bipolar disorder.

Now, as for my words causing you a bit of nausea. Let me remind you that arrogance is very common with people with Aspergers because they have issues with “Theory of Mind” and in their “reality” they are the only ones who are correct, and many times have a “know-it-all” attitude.

When you communicate with someone with AS it is important to be very clear and very specific. If you find that type of communication offensive, I’d suggest you find another blog, one where everyone agrees.

Now, Have a nice day

By V for Vendetta

October 28, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

Perhaps she can’t accept the genetic aspect of it. Heaven forbid she be passing along the problem. “How Darwinian” indeed.

By Harper's Mama

October 28, 2008 9:32 AM | Link to this

Luvs my four, What’s your address? I’ll send you the $.07 of my salary that comes from your taxes.

By HS Teacher, Too

October 28, 2008 10:20 AM | Link to this

Thank you, V.

By V for Vendetta

October 28, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

By the way L4MK, it’s spelled QANTAS, and I have flown them; the service and experience was fantastic.

By HS Teacher, Too

October 28, 2008 1:53 PM | Link to this

Love,

If your argument has to resort to the tired and trite “my taxes pay your salary,” then perhaps you need to rethink your argument. And, lest you forget, we teachers also pay taxes. Based on my household’s income, it’s fair to say that my husband and I pay my salary and then some, and we don’t need your help. Heck, we’ll take credit for paying V’s salary, too. That way you won’t have to worry about your money going places you’d prefer it didn’t.

By love my 4 kids

October 28, 2008 4:48 PM | Link to this

V and Jim D. Reread my post. I never said that it was conclusive that Aspergers’ was caused by vaccinations. I merely related my own anectdotal evidence and cited an actual court case won by parents of an autistic child, based on medical evidence. You can draw your own conclusions. The website I posted had information on vaccine quality control and the monetary gain associated with them. This can also factor into the safety of vaccines, apart from the issue of a “dead” or “disabled” virus. Just look at what happened to the safety of baby formula in China. Jeff is correct to question blind trust in this government controlled product with only taxpayer liability. After all, look at the kind of teachers they hire. The fact that the government has a special court with which to settle vaccine lawsuits is an open admission that they do indeed injure or kill people. And yes, Quantas Airlines has been 100% safe. It can be done, or at least done better.

Harper’s Mama; So you’re finally up to the $20,000/year level? Congratulations! Just send the money to the Atlanta Food Bank. Let’s keep feeding those “useless eaters”.

By pwned

October 28, 2008 7:29 PM | Link to this

For someone who is busy raising children whom you claim to dearly love, you sure spend a lot of time commenting on blogs.

By Tired Teacher

October 28, 2008 8:10 PM | Link to this

I bet “love my 4 kids” is that same psychotic mother who tried to ban Harry Potter books in the schools!!

By V for Vendetta

October 28, 2008 9:37 PM | Link to this

Good gravy train, it’s freaking QANTAS, you moron! Is Jenny McCarthy playing a joke on us? Are we being punked?

By lovin life

October 28, 2008 9:45 PM | Link to this

we are going to private school to avoid teachers like jim, v and the rest! How dare you make fun of children with disabilities. Those who can do those who can’t teach! When I was in college all of my sorority sisters and hall mates who were not cutting it in business school, communications etc. were told to go to the school for education.

By haha

October 28, 2008 10:15 PM | Link to this

And what was your major? ohhh…let me guess, “Home Economics” (or whatever it is being called), you know the major where you learn recipes, how to properly iron & fold your husband’s work shirts, and how to gossip with other bored housewives. As I recall from my college days, the mating call of a sorority girl went something like…”Oh. I am SOOOO drunk.” Thanks for joining the blog, Jeff was getting tiresome.

By for the record

October 28, 2008 10:18 PM | Link to this

Those who can, do; those who can’t, teach!

Lovin life, you forgot the semi-colon separating your two independent clauses as well as the commas which give the sentence its full meaning - you need to read the book Eats, Shoots and Leaves or at least Strunk & White’s Elements of Style.

This expression isn’t usually meant for K-12 teachers - it’s more of a reference to writers, actors, and artists who can’t sell their creative work, and thus must resort to the lowly level of teaching (usually at the college level) to make ends meet.

It is also a commonly derisive statement aimed at business school professors who have never run companies in the “real world.”

I’ve heard it attributed to George Bernard Shaw, but can’t verify - in any case, I prefer the alternate “Those that can, DO teach. Those that can’t teach, merely do.” And I’m not sure what you think you’ll find in a private school - animated teacher-trons out of Westworld?

Also, for the record, jim d is not a teacher, nor is Jeff, and just because it’s an education blog, that doesn’t mean every poster is a teacher.

By V for Vendetta

October 28, 2008 11:05 PM | Link to this

Lovin Life,

You might want to scroll back through the posts to see why I jumped all over L4MK. Good luck with private school. If you’re kids are half as smart as you seem to be, I’m sure they’ll fit right in.

By cgregister

October 29, 2008 11:24 AM | Link to this

I have worked in the public school sector for almost 30 years and as a registrar for 20 of those years. The system I work for has a place in our computer enrollment program to mark whether the student shot records are complete or not. I then have the capability to run a report with those students on it. My school (6h grade students only) has also been audited by both the state and/or county health department almost every year since 2000. I send home letters and attempt to call the parents and let them know what is going on and when I must have an updated shot record. However, if that all fails, the principals that I have worked under allow me to withdraw the student. This of course upsets the parents, but it is their responsibilty as a parent to take care of the problem. Most students are withdrawn for just a few days and the parents return them with what is needed. I have, however, had some students that never come back. PARENTS NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR FAMILY BUSINESS, WITHOUT GETTING SO NASTY ABOUT IT.

By jim d

October 29, 2008 3:59 PM | Link to this

OK lovin life,

just exactly where did I make fun of children with disabilities??