AJC.com > Blogs > Get Schooled > Archives > 2008 > October > 23 > Entry
DEL.ICIO.USIs there a place for average students?
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
I got an interesting email from a mom seeking some help. She mentions a program many of you have asked before: What do our schools do to help average students?
Here is her note (I edited for space):
“My daughter is a great student, caring, well-rounded and smart. However she is just an average student getting A’s and B’s but has to work to those grades … Most of her friends are gifted/high achievers and she feels left out since she is unable to take classes with them. I have tried to reassure her that she is an unique young lady, but she still feels out of place because her friends are in the gifted program … I feel that if you are an average student schools have no place for you. I wonder if other parents feel that way, too? Should I be doing more to help her get into the gifted program?”
What advice would you give?
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Comments
By mmmm
October 23, 2008 8:17 AM | Link to this
Well, most students ARE average students - even if they are in “honors,” “advanced,” “AP,” etc. They are in those courses not because they are really gifted or special. Clearly parents bear a huge portion of the blame, but schools also have this “pride” for offering so many AP classes, etc. School people, just like the rest of this country, are really caring about themselves and their reputations. This student/parent should learn to value and enjoy those people in her classes. There is nothing wrong with them.
By the average student is overlooked
October 23, 2008 8:53 AM | Link to this
Average students are the ones who are being hurt in the public school. Ironically, public school was set up to serve the average student. Now these kids are in classrooms that are overcrowded and underfunded with teachers who, for the most part, are not as talented as those who teach the more “gifted” student.
One day a parent of an average student is going to sue for the same small group attention that the gifted students and students with special needs have.
By Nancy
October 23, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this
Once the child is in middle school, she’ll likely be placed in tag classes with her peers, though not labeled a tag student. Assuming that is, that she performs very well on the CRCT and is high achieving.
By Mil mom
October 23, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this
Its been my experince that the so called ‘average students’ end up doing better in life than their ‘gifted’ conterparts. Many kids in the gifted programs are so consumed by school and homework, they miss out on many of the aspects of growing up and doing typical teen stuff. These gifted kids are hit by a bomb when they hit college or the real world because they lack social skills. I feel that in today’s service based economy, that it is vital to have at least semi good social skills. The more rounded ‘average’ students will often times be more successful in life, be it career, relationships, etc.
I’ll bet that the daughter who feel almost left out because some of her friends are in gifted classes has more friends than her gifted clasmates, is involved with more extracirriculars, and also has more fun just doing teenager type activites. Trust me, she’ll be better off in the long run. (I’m not saying that there is anything wrong with taking advanced classes, more often than not however, those kids are so consumed with homework they don’t have time to go out and just be kids)
By HS Teacher, Too
October 23, 2008 9:48 AM | Link to this
You can’t “help” anyone get into a gifted program, other than by advocating for them. You can fight that a student get tested, and to some extent you can challenge the test results or ask for an alternative measurement, but you can’t “prep” someone to be gifted.
That being said, we don’t know how old this young lady is. As she gets older there will likely be more inter-mingling among honors, gifted and regular “college prep” classes. The perceived stigma of not being in the upper-level classes will not be as severe, and the student in question will be able to take AP classes even if she is not “gifted.” Since AP classes are the highest level you can get to in high school, the imaginary line separating the gifted/”non-gifted” kids fades tremendously.
Do our schools abandon our middle-ability kids, though? Absolutely. Our gifted classes are smaller by law, our low-achieving classes are often (but not always) smaller by default. The over-crowding occurs with the middle-of-the-road kids — the ones, you could argue, who would see the most potential for improvement if they were afforded the perks of smaller classes and the attention (and, as a side-effect, more custom pacing) that come with smaller classes.
There are a lot of folks who want to compare gifted kid to college-prep kids, and take resources from one group to help the other. The bottom line is that asd diverse as the needs are for college prep kids, gifted kids are no less diverse, or needy, and in some cases more so. Their needs are different, sure, but to say that they can “teach themselves” punishes them for being who they are, just as making the CP classes large because the resources are allocated to the two extremes, punishes the CP kids for who THEY are. In an ideal world, we wouldn’t have to do this. If we were able to cap ALL our classes at the gifted-limit of 21, I can’t even begin to imagine the amazing and positive differences we’d see.
By lyncoln
October 23, 2008 10:13 AM | Link to this
There was an article in my local newspaper a month ago (or so) that mentioned that in some of the area schools 80+% of the students are classified as ‘gifted’. That is because the definition for ‘gifted’ in the schools is ‘above grade level in at least one subject’. Sometimes, ‘gifted’ doesn’t mean anything very special.
On the advice side all I could say is, once you join the real world outside of school no one remembers or cares if you took a gifted class or not. They want you to be able to do the job you are asked to perform. If she’s learning how to work hard and get the job done she’ll be plenty successful.
By Tony
October 23, 2008 10:40 AM | Link to this
Our schools were designed and are most efficient at delivering educational services for average students. Based on the normal distribution curve, 95% of a students are “average”. Schools are organized based on a curriculum/grade level plan that closely aligns average age abilities with the things students should learn in particular grades. High schools are able to offer courses that engage students based on interests.
This is a trade-off for being a tax-based entity. Tax payers want their money used efficiently and do not want to pay higher taxes to provide all the additional services people think we should provide.
The idea that students are “punished” for being average is someone’s spin being applied. In the long run, people become successful because of their own efforts. This person’s child can become whatever he/she chooses as long as he/she is willing to put in the work. This is true for every student.
By V for Vendetta
October 23, 2008 11:05 AM | Link to this
Where’s JimD when you need him?
“Is there a place for average students?” Well, the answer is easy in one area of Atlanta: Not in Gwinnett County.
A few years ago Gwinnett Co. abolished most technical level classes, apparently subscribing to the idea that all kids can be taught and perform at the same level. Those of us who aren’t huffing paint understand that this is a terrible idea. The technical classes, while challenging to teach, afforded students who were not college material another option aside from dropping out and becoming human waste. Gwinnett was alreay woefully underserved when it came to technical education (the state’s largest school system only has TWO technical schools serving soon-to-be more than fifteen high schools). However, the BOE, in all of its wisdom, thought that eliminating the technical classes would “force” those students to achieve at a higher level. The result?
College prep classes have become unmanageable breeding grounds for discipline problems and academic failure. The drop out rate is slowly increasing. The number of failures is drastically increasing. The quality of education in those classes has hit an all time low. The truly average kids are receiving a pathetic education while teachers spend all of their time disciplining the thugs who shouldn’t be there in the first place. It’s sad, and if more people knew the truth, they might speak out about it.
But they don’t, and the cycle continues. Soon, college prep will mean nearly nothing in Gwinnett, and most of the kids who “graduate” from high school on the college prep level will promptly fail out of college. It’s sad that Jalvin is being allowed to run the county into the ground while the parents and students sit by and watch. The teachers know what’s going on, but they fear their jobs too much to say anything lest they be singled out and creatively fired.
By TheBlogger
October 23, 2008 11:09 AM | Link to this
As many here have already said, there is nothing wrong with “average” and schools really do serve those average kids.
The problem here sounds like gifted envy. The daughter just wants to be like and to be with her friends. This has nothing to do with schools or with education quality.
Schools cannot “fix” everything.
By Mom M
October 23, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this
Hi! I’m new here, so, please be kind! I’m a high school teacher, and the mother of a high school student. My child is not gifted at all! He does take all Honors level classes, and he’s busting his butt to get A’s and B’s in those classes. There’s no way to “make” your child gifted. She either is or she isn’t. All students are eligible to take A.P. courses, if they’re recommended by a teacher, so, she can do that from the time she’s a 9th grader! I didn’t let my son take the A.P. Human Geography course this year as a 9th grader because I knew it would kill him! He wasn’t ready! There’s no shame in having an “average” (ie - college prep) child!
My advice would be for the parent to stop trying to project her own insecurities onto her child - I’m sure she’ll be fine.
By HS Teacher, Too
October 23, 2008 12:06 PM | Link to this
V,
Exactly why I left. I thought I could change the system, or at least be a part of the change. But the Gwinnett Teachers’ Alliance turned out to not amount to much, the rest of the teachers are too afraid to speak up, and I felt railroaded for actually caring enough and wanting to do a good job. The problem is that you’re right — no parents know the real story enough to rise up and force a change. And as we all know, if the parents don’t raise Cain in Gwinnett, ain’t no way the teachers’ voices matter.
By par
October 23, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this
NO…..She sounds like a great kid (I am guessing elem or middle school) and probably has other ‘gifts’ besides being a good student. My daughter was an average A-B student, not in the gifted programs. She is also a musician which always gave her a sense of self esteem especially amongst her friends in ‘gifted’ programs. Then when she got into HS she ‘took off’ like a rocket after getting into an AP World History course in 9th grade. Now she has developed incredible skills and is taking 3 AP courses as a junior, still not in the gifted program but gobbling up college credits like pac man! She knew that she had a gift that her friends in the ‘gifted’ programs didn’t have and that kept her going until she hit her stride academically. Find out what else really excites your daughter in or out of school…arts, sports, whatever it may be….encourage her to develop her own gifts….because that feeling of self accomplishment and uniqueness isn’t taught in the ‘gifted’ program.
By just a teacher
October 23, 2008 1:13 PM | Link to this
Maybe I’m spoiled because I teach high school, but it seems to unilateral to just say “gifted” or “average.” What about the kid who hates reading but loves chemistry? Or the one who can’t do calculus but soaks up everything he can about politics and history? In high school we have niche classes like AP Computer Science or AP Psychology which appeal to students with interests that don’t necessarily correlate with traditional high school classes.
Students of all ability levels have interests, talents, passions. What does the child like? What sparks her enthusiasm? If there is a particular subject area that she enjoys, I would strongly encourage her to enroll in the most advanced classes in that discipline, while acknowledging that it will take additional time to master the material.
Also, I think “Average” is a bizarre word and it suggests a narrow focus on academics. There is so much more to school than that! Take full advantage of the extracurriculars available. A good high school should have plenty of places for academically “average” students to shine.
By catlady
October 23, 2008 1:22 PM | Link to this
Do our schools ignore/underserve the “unidentified?” Yep. Those who get the “help” are ESOL, SP ED, and gifted. Of those in my county, only gifted and the severely retarded or health impaired are pulled out and given much extra attention. So really, where I live, the gifted are the ones who are getting the best service. You might as well get used to it until some regular parents sues because their kid is not getting a free and appropriate education, FAPE, which seems to be guaranteed only to some. Then, on top of bigger classes, your daughter is probably also subjected to kids who are being ‘included”, which means they have significant special needs but the regular teacher is expected to modify and adjust to serve them as well, frequently without even a parapro. Our speech teacher, for example “consults” with the teachers on how WE can serve the kid, rather than working with them herself.
However, I suspect, depending on the age of your kid, it is more of a social thing. The gifted clique together, making even more pressure on the others. I have especially seen this starting in 4th grade. I have seen parents demand their child’s reading group be changed, for example, so that their child can be “with their (gifted) friends”, and I have seen some over-placed, stressed out kids as a result of being in over their heads.
Help your daughter make friends outside the gifted clique. Forget about “how it looks”. Help her identify things she wants to pursue (dance, art, sports, music) so she can meet some other people and find an area that she might shine in.
And for goodness sake, don’t moan and groan about it in front of her! Find some other parents who are also concerned about the lack of special attention, etc for more average students. (Nowadays, an A-B student is considered average) Ask for data from your principal about class size and achievement scores and spend some time looking over the information so you can speak about it to the school board, for example. You might meet some other folks who feel similarly shortchanged.
By Tamika
October 23, 2008 1:40 PM | Link to this
Do schools Help the Average KID— UMMM NO… GOVT Education is A JOKE!!!
Barack Obama Will make our schools much better
VOTE OBAMA on Nov 4th
By lring
October 23, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this
We had a friend that actually left a Cobb county private school so that he could go to public school to be labeled “gifted” and placed in AP classes. They do not have AP classes in our private school because they have a higher level of education than public school. She truly left for the label! We left a city school system because the standards were set so low that you were placed in AP classes with very little effort or smarts! Comparing the standards is very important. What might be typical in one school may be AP in another. I remember in high school that my friends in AP classes seemed to lose out on a lot of after school activities because they were always working on AP things. Looking at them now, I cant really see how they benefited in the long run. They seem rather run of the mill…
By Tamika
October 23, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this
OBAMA will Give School Vouchers and allow for School Choice!! He will eat the teacher unions for lunch!!
By Lashaun
October 23, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this
To say that a teacher that teaches non -gifted students is not as talented as one who teaches gifted students is not the most absurd thing I have heard of. A teacher is assigned a class based on his or her certification. To teach gifted students, one must take certain classes. That does not necessarily mean that the teacher is gifted, only that they took 3 additional classes (that were probably offered through staff development and they did not have to pay for them). By the way, I am a teacher that has gifted certification and I teach both gifted and non gifted students.
By jim d
October 23, 2008 2:31 PM | Link to this
Soory I’m late V,
Actually had a few things that had to happen today, and am extremely busy closing out our year.
A place for regular kids in GCPS?? I only have one thing to say.
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Thanks, I needed that!
By SFMom
October 23, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this
I am a teacher and a parent of a gifted child and an average child. First of all, you can’t prep a child to be gifted. They have to pass a series of tests and score in the 99th percentile in 3 of 4 areas. Trust me, you can’t prep for that. Secondly, it doesn’t even make a difference.
As parents we want to believe that we have the smartest, most talented kids on the block. Reality check. Most of us have average kids. Heck, I was an average kid, but I obtained an advanced degree and feel that I am successful.
I doubt that any school has 80% of their students labeled gifted unless it is a school for the gifted. And then, it would be 100%.
Personally, I think our schools fail so many kids on every level. My gifted child receives 7 hours a week in a gifted class. The rest of the week he’s with his regular class. I’ve fought for him to get an adequate education. He’s always the “class tutor”. That doesn’t help him! Give him work on his level. Sure, he can help other kids, but his needs must be met. My “average” kid does just fine. Works hard for A’s and B’s. But she has other talents. She’s gifted in the arts and is definitely above average. Our schools focus on those going to college, instead of developing skills for those that don’t have a desire to do so. Everybody is not cut out for college. I wish someone would wake up and see this as a real problem in our society.
This child has her own “gifts”. I suggest the parent hone in on those gifts. Once in the real world, she’ll find that it doesn’t matter if she’s gifted or not; it matters how hard she works!
By jim d
October 23, 2008 2:41 PM | Link to this
“Tamika”
OBAMA will Give School Vouchers and allow for School Choice!! He will eat the teacher unions for lunch!!
DAMN GIRL,!!!!
Have you even listened to what the soryy SOB has been saying? Are you capable of understanding? Even if you don’t listen, just check his voting record and you will see thaat he has a history of siding with unions to give them more power. and I’m not just talkin teaachers unions here, ALL of them
He ain’t nuthin more than long legged mack daddy thats pimpin you girl. He has sold out to whitey and has become nothin more than a good house “N”
By RealityKing
October 23, 2008 3:43 PM | Link to this
Sadly, our public schools are now complete progressive failures. Dumb down so much that what was once considered “average” is now “gifted”. You need only look at our world rankings to see the proof. Rankings that continually put us first but last, first in spending, last in education level. And in case you didn’t know.., math and science skills trumped caring and well-rounded skills in job interviews.
So obviously, the best thing this mom could do for her daughter is to pull her out of public school and put her into a private school. Schools that have repeatedly been shown to have higher standards of excellence, schools where classes revolve around average students and the special classes are for those that are behind, or have learning disabilities. Schools where the truly gifted are moved forward, instead of held back to achieve some mindless social agenda.
Then, if her daughter truly is a good student, her make up work in the special classes will be short lived and she could then focus on getting a well-rounded education to match her well-rounded attitude…