Get Schooled

By HS Teacher, Too

October 13, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

We alluded to much of this discussion last week.

First of all, the term “nerd” is becoming less of a negative, as the digital age has shown people that the “nerds and geeks” are doing quite well. I have heard comments to this effect many times, and people realize that doing well in school can be quite rewarding. That being said, there’s a difference between being smart and doing well in school, and in being somewhat socially maladjusted. To my mind, one can be smart and interested in math and science and academics and not have to be a “nerd.” Nerd and geek have more derogatory connotations.

Semantics aside, there is a culture here in the U.S. that allows people to shrug off anything that is difficult. People want to feel as though they belong, and if belogning means disclaiming talent in a difficult subject, people do that quite readily. How many times have you heard someone say “Oh, I’m not good at math,” or “I was never good in math”? Contrast that to how many times you’ve ever heard someone say “Sorry, I’m illiterate.” It’s acceptable to be math-phobic or math-illiterate, but no one would say the same is true of reading!

We all learn by example. When a child hears his or her parent disclaim any math skills, what does the child take away from that? That it’s okay to not be good at math. That math is hard. Etc., etc.

Teachers are particularly guilty of this. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard teachers of other disciplines make comments about why they don’t teach math. I don’t stand in front of my classroom and say that I don’t teach English because I am illiterate. I’m a good speller, I pay attention to my grammar, and I read constantly. I happen to like math better, but I don’t disclaim any competence with English or Social Studies. In fact, I often point out the similarities to my students: when you write a paper you need to come up with a logical structure. You need to make an argument and support it. Likewise in mathematics. You identify a problem, think about the tools you have to solve it, and systematically apply those tools.

So, what can we do to get rid of the stigma? My opinion is that at least part of what we do needs to be to SLOW down our math curricula. If we allow students to really get their brains around the concepts, to see them in application, and to have time to explore concepts in depth, they will begin to develop an affinity for the subject. Right now our math curricula are too concerned with breadth (as opposed to depth), and students are forced to go through material too quickly to either really understand it or to really appreciate it. In turn, they can’t see how inter-related math concepts are. And it becomes this abstract, disconnected “task,” and a progressively more difficult one at that, because the students lack the fundamentals and each year are more and more lacking. And so goes the cycle that kids grow to hate math.

By TheBlogger

October 13, 2008 11:59 AM | Link to this

I’m sorry buy “huh?” What so-called ‘math experts’ said that it was the teacher’s job to do this?

You mean to tell me that now parents don’t even have to teach their own offspring the importance of an education?

Why do kids need parents at all? Why don’t we just let parents birth the kids, then turn the baby over to some agency that will raise the kids properly? The parents can pay a fee for the expenses.

Teachers have plenty on their plate without the added responsibility of showing kids why math (or any subject) is important.

By PHJ

October 13, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

My grandson has always loved math…until this year. He completed Algebra last year with a 100 on the EOCT and was looking forward to Geometry this year. Well, he is a ninth grader and you know what that means in math this year. He is in Math 1 honors and he hates it. It is a fight to get him to do his homework, which, by the way, is a packet of papers. They don’t use the book. We are trying to get him out of the state of Georgia to a more sane place. I hope we can accomplish the move for his sake.

By Northern Visitor

October 13, 2008 1:30 PM | Link to this

I really hate to say this but in the South ignorance is bliss. I’m down here on business for a couple of weeks and I have never seen so many incompetent, hateful, and ignorant people in my life. Statistics on test scores/education also validate my observance. This isn’t just a black thing either. I’ve observed fools across the racial divide. I will be so glad when I can go back home.

By flipper

October 13, 2008 1:42 PM | Link to this

The only way to promote nerds in math would be to appropriately track it. Math is one of those subjects that a person is either good at or not. A person with a low IQ might be able to master some basic math and algebraic skills, but they are not going to be capable of mastering high level math. You either have it or you don’t.

Our state has completely screwed up the math curriculum. Any engineers or physicists will have to come from Georgia private schools or from other states. They will no longer come from Georgia. As a matter of fact, with the latest de-tracking fad, I wouldn’t expect much of anything excellent to come from Georgia public schools. But at least no one will know they they are stupid……. unless, of course, they leave the state.

By Jason

October 13, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

Take the kids on a field trip, first to a quant hedge fund manager’s $45MM summer home in Nantucket, then to Joe Football’s $200K spec house in Gwinnett County. That should get the message across.

By Tony

October 13, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

If being smart, good in math and science, and shunning the all-important social life constitutes being nerdy then I guess I fit the bill and I’m proud of it. My son was bemoaning his nerdiness last night and I reminded him what people will call him a few years from now. Instead of nerd, he will be called “boss”.

Unfortunately, one of the myths abounding in our politicians and media today is the shortage of engineers and the like within our own country. There is more than sufficient evidence to refute the claims of the shortage but many people continue to make the claim. Both presidential candidates are pushing an education agenda that calls for more science and math. Yet our colleges are graduating more engineers, physicists and mathematicians than there are positions available.

Teaching math in school is ultra-important. Numbers are the second language. One of my objectives as an elementary school principal is to improve the mathematics instruction at this level to make it easier for middle and high schools to teach the higher levels of math. The new GPS curriculum is tremendously better and much more focused in the elementary grades. The two problems we have left is to improve the attitudes of parents and the skills of teachers. Parents want geniuses for children but do not want the kids to put effort into learning. A parent actually fussed at me earlier this year because we were challenging his child.

Teachers at the elementary level used to be allowed to earn their credentials with one college level math course. Thankfully, this is no longer the case, but we still have many teachers from the old days. We provide extensive professional learning to help make up the difference. A few days ago we talked about the importance of the teacher having excitement for what they teach. It is an essential ingredient for teaching math.

To Northern Visitor: We can’t wait for you to go home. Please take some of your companions with you.

By Set

October 13, 2008 3:06 PM | Link to this

Sad to say but Northern Visitor’s post/rant is correct. By any objective analysis the South lags FAR behind not only her northern neighbors, but also the western states. I fear however that the rest of the union is running a 100 yard dash to catch up with the South. Brave new world it is.

By jim d

October 13, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

Gee imagine that

Finally someone (Ms. Dodd) has the balls to write an article!!

By Peadawg

October 13, 2008 3:49 PM | Link to this

For the most part, nerd, geek, and boss all mean the same thing :).

By SallyB

October 13, 2008 4:00 PM | Link to this

PHJ..You don’t have to get out of GA. Just find a private school!!!! Where , incidentally, most TRACK students. I agree with flipper. It is an absolute necessity to have math students tracked, i.e. grouped by skills. I also think it would be effective to have English/Language Arts students tracked.
Tracking was lost on the ” Build Self Esteem” bandwagon, right along with much of, if not all of, the emphasis on academics.

By tom

October 13, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

PHJ

I hate to say this, but your grandson was mis-placed, and it is probably way too late to do anything about it. If he was in Algebra I last year, he should have been in Geometry this year. Those students who are in Math I or Advanced Math I were in the regular grade 8 math classes.

Your grandson’s school messed it up.

On the other hand, from a very academic perspective, your grandson will be just as well prepared in math by taking Advanced Math 1,2 and 3, as he would have been by taking Geometry, Algebra II and Pre-calculus.

I would also try to find out why he hates it so much. Is he bored? Or is he really having difficulty? Sometimes students who have been successful in “just memorize and regurgitate what I told you” math classes have difficulty in math classes that require them to actually think and solve problems (not repeating the procedures they were shown but actually figuring out problems that they don’t necessarily know how to do at the off-set).

By JohnnyReb

October 13, 2008 4:03 PM | Link to this

Hey “Northern Visitor”, FYI most of metro Atlanta is obnoxious, arrogant yankee carpetbaggers like you boy! So why don’t you haul your sorry @$$ back up to whatever Godforsaken, limp-wristed, pinko yankee cesspool (“Noo Yawk”, “Filthadelphia”) you were spawned from punk! Us real Southerners don’t need or want your kind down here in Dixieland!

By SallyB

October 13, 2008 4:14 PM | Link to this

Oh….and RE: “Many math experts have said teachers must find a way to get kids to see how exciting and important math is” (1) before any teacher can do this, the student must come to class valuing education and knowing that school work is not always “exciting” and success requires work, not play! * It is not the teacher’s responsibility to make it fun. It is the teacher’s responsibility to know the subject well and be able to explain it and its processes clearly . Oh….and, even back in the day, there have ALWAYS been nerds , those who are not in the so-called *popular kids” cliques, but in the higher level *tracked classes . Somehow they made it through. An honest to goodness, genuine Nerd will just swim against the current and look back and not regret being a Nerd for one moment.

By Number14

October 13, 2008 4:29 PM | Link to this

Rednecks (and working class blacks) don’t take kindly to nerds in the south, especially if you are a black nerd (from the north, including Virginia)…..They see that as intimidating and being uppity.

By Northern Visitor

October 13, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

JohnnyReb…

You just validated my post with your boorish response. I do believe you people down here have a saying; “a hit dog will holler” or something to that effect. Good day sir.

By young lawyer

October 13, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

I was the prototypical nerd at a large public high school in Cobb County (captain of the math team, marching band, took every AP class, valedictorian).

Now, I’m 27 and made $165,000 this year as an attorney. That’s the kind of math on which high school nerds should be focused.

I was intensely made fun of in high school, beat up in middle school, and took depression medication in 8th grade. Fortunately, my parents kept me focused on school work, grades, and college.

If I hadn’t been a nerd, I wouldn’t be where I am today. Nerd isn’t a bad word—it’s a compliment.

By Rob

October 13, 2008 4:37 PM | Link to this

Nerd most definitely has a negative connotation.

Easy solution: Don’t use it, find a proper substitution!

By peach girl

October 13, 2008 4:42 PM | Link to this

hey number14,Virginia is in the south,not north.

By GA origional

October 13, 2008 4:46 PM | Link to this

northernvisitor If the south is so bad why is it that all you northern people have to move down here? We can’t wait for you to leave and we want you to get the #$%$ out along with the rest of the nothern complaining wanna be southern but can’t pieces of crap.. You people are no different than the mexicans coming to the US.. It’s pretty much the same thing.. Ga needs a border patrol!

By young lawyer

October 13, 2008 4:53 PM | Link to this

Let me also note that this blogger’s recommendation that math be slowed down for kids to learn fundamentals unfairly penalizes students with interests and/or predispositions in math. This teach to the weakest link mentality does nothing for our schools but lower standards. Such an idea should only be supported in the context of multi-leveled teaching. In my high school, we had Honors and regular for 9th and 10th grade, and then AP and regular above that. To slow down the regular level class so that the dumbest kid can understand it to significantly penalize and retard the learning of the kids who just missed the honors courses. There is a very wide range of ability levels in a “regular” class. In order to slow math down, particularly at the elementary and middle school levels, you must have at least 3 different levels of classes for different ability levels. A Robin Hood approach, where you rob from the rich to give to the poor, has no place in education when the result is to compromise the development of the brightest students.

By mmm

October 13, 2008 4:55 PM | Link to this

Well, the problem with the South is that teachers area also southerners - whether or not they are originally born in the south. They just want to get those students who can be taught by anyone - and only those are the students that can teach. You can tell that easily from comments by The Bloger and SallyB, but they aren’t the exceptions, unfortunately.

By Northern Visitor

October 13, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

GA origional…

So now its the “mexicans” fault also? We will never meet but I swear you remind me of the banjo playing character in The Deliverance.

By Tony

October 13, 2008 5:02 PM | Link to this

young lawyer, our federal government fully empowers robin hood and his merry band to gleefully make mirth about all our schools. how else is our federal government going to make everyone equal?

By Lee

October 13, 2008 7:01 PM | Link to this

I don’t think it is because some kids are getting called “nerds” that they lose interest in math and science.

Look at the message we adults are sending these kids. Go to any high school and what do you see? Multi-million dollar football stadiums, tennis courts, baseball fields, soccer fields and gymnasiums. Next, go to the local neighborhood sports complex and you will find hundreds of kids on any given night playing organized sports. We’ve got 50 channels of 24 hour sports on the satellite dish and some kid who can barely read and write gets a million dollar signing bonus straight out of high school.

And the math and science “nerds” get what?????

We are basically telling these kids that academics is not as important as sports. I was a two sport athlete in high school (30+ years ago), but I don’t recall sports recieving the level of attention back then that it does now.

By "Blame teachers first"? But of course.

October 13, 2008 7:19 PM | Link to this

Well if it’s Monday, then Maureen “Blame teachers first” Downey must be at it again. Her article is ostensibly to praise the KIPP concept; the reality is, it’s just another excuse for “Blame teachers first” to engage in her typical vitriol.

“Blame teachers first” wants to say the average school teacher doesn’t work 50 hours a week? Well, that in an of itself should disqualify her from having her whining taken seriously.

But the main thing that “Blame teachers first” doesn’t get, is that as a charter school, KIPP has the AUTHORITY to enforce standards that the normal public school doesn’t. Do you think a public school could ever get away with a rate of attrition anything near what the KIPP school had in San Francisco? Of course not. And Downey knows it. It’s just that acknowledging it gets in the way of “Blame teachers first”.

Unlike a typical public school, the teachers have the authority to enforce the rigor; and they have the authority to enforce the discipline; and most importantly, they have the authority to REMOVE the students who either won’t work, or disrupt class on a continuous basis.

One would think if Downey had a real concern for students, she would advocate that all teachers, and all schools be given the flexibility charter schools have, and the authority they have to remove those who will not work, or those who will not behave.

Downey can’t do that for teachers, because it interferers with her prime directive: First, last, and always, blame the teacher.

By JohnnyReb

October 13, 2008 7:23 PM | Link to this

Northern Visitor, you sound like some wanna-be intellectual. I got a newsflash yankee…no real Southerner gives a rat’s @$$ about your opinons or validations boy, so take it back to the crackrock & lib invested Sodom & Gomorrah you hail from punk!

GA Original, great idea on protecting our beloved Georgia from bed-wettin’, liberal fruitcakes like ol’ “Northern Visitor”. I bet the mug likes “visiting” bathhouses too! ;-)

By HS Teacher, Too

October 13, 2008 7:58 PM | Link to this

Young lawyer, I think you’re speaking to me and my comment about slowing the curricula down. I think, however, that you misunderstand me. I don’t suggest slowing it down so the weakest can catch up. In fact, I am a HUGE proponent of tracking and ability-grouping. What I am suggesting, however, is slowing down the content to the point where students in a particular class/level can dig deeper, rather than wider. I’d just as soon cover fewer chapters of the book, but not have to re-teach in every consecutive year. And the more thoroughly students learn, and the deeper their understanding, the more they will be able to see the connections between the disciplines.

No, I absolutely and adamantly oppose slowing down for the slowest to catch up. Teaching to the weakest weakens us all.

By Northern Visitor

October 13, 2008 8:07 PM | Link to this

JohnnyReb…

Listen here you “only got 3 teethus, slack-jawed screwing your sister redneck 6th grade dropout chicken plant employee.”

See how easy it is to insult people on the net? That makes us real tough guys doesn’t it? Once again as I stated previously you prove my point.

By Mike D

October 13, 2008 8:57 PM | Link to this

Having math and science intelligence is not nerdy. I grew up 100 mile east of Atlanta, but my family pushed knowledge everyday. I took what I learned and turned it into a finance degree with a statistics masters. The entire time I did well in football and baseball. As and adult, I make a great living and I work with my kids to learn the same things.

If you are an idiot, you won’t help your kids with this. There are millions of kids in Asia that study math and science 15 hours a day. If your kids aren’t with it, they will dig ditches and wait tables.

By THWG

October 13, 2008 8:58 PM | Link to this

Students must first and foremost come to class WANTING to learn. No, our system isn’t totally screwed up. I attended Fulton Co. public schools from the time I was in first grade until my graduation. I’d say that they didn’t corrupt me too much. In fact, some of my best teachers came in math class. Math is the only subject that is black and white, there is no room for interpretation when it comes to the numbers. I understand that not everyone can master this intensive subject (my friend from UGA calls me every night needing help with math), but I do believe that a greater emphasis needs to be placed on the importance of the subject. Aside from English, it is pretty much guaranteed that math is the most important subject in ANY career path. This, of course, coming from an engineering student at Georgia Tech…

By Sharon

October 13, 2008 9:52 PM | Link to this

Nerds, and by this definition those who excel at math, rule the world. We desperately need to change our culture’s perception of math. Parents and teachers should quit harping on the negatives of math and encourage their kids to learn math. If the kids aren’t learning in school, the parents should step in and bring math to everyday things, hire a tutor, or learn math through another means. Stick the kids who don’t master the basics in a remedial class. Too bad if it hurts their self esteem!

Those who excel at math can almost write their ticket to a decent paying job. I’m not a “nerd” and was a miserable math student back in the day. I’m not proud of that fact and am lucky to have fallen into a career that did not require much math. However, the world is changing and my job will probably be irrelevant in a few years, which is why a decade later I’m learning math all over again.

By Al

October 13, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

To Northern Visitor, I live here, and was nodding my head with your post…unitl I got to “This isn’t just a black thing either.” The implication is that “incompetent, hateful, and ignorant people” only applies to Black people. That pretty insulting. If you are in fact here, I’m sure that you’ll see a few black people as pathetically portrayed on TV, but I’m al but you quite likely share the same level of xenophobia, as all of the a* backwards, incompent, hateful, ignorant white people that I have to share my zip code with. All of the hard working, Black professionals that I assosciate with certainly don’t fit your description, and I’m pretty sure that you don’t believe that we exist. We all have jobs (as bankers, lawyers, professors, and business professionals), have degrees (in most cases more than one), and have contend with people with your narrow mindset dailyso sure that you’ll see quite a few black professionals…more than you apparantly see at home (wherever that is).

When I began reading your post, I was hoping that you’d consider staying, but now I don’t. While you may be competent, and indifferent (as opposed to hateful), you certainly are ignorant. Not in the insulting sense, just as defined in the dictionary. I thought that you might be a little different,. Yes please leave as quickly as possible, because we have enough ignorant folks here that think a lot like you here already.

By the way…I don’t think you intended to be insulting, i just have a hunch that you probably aren’t as smart as you think you are.

This comes from a Master’s Educated Black man with a six figure income, in a house that I’m sure makes yours look pretty puny 3 floors, 7000sq ft, Big New BMW, 8 Rental properties, and a 2nd home out of state. I coach, raise my 3 sons to be men. Oh…and I’m not an anomoly. My network consists of many more like me and more accomplished. We all grew up in a pretty s** environment, but even a farmer will tell you that manure makes the best crops. Please don’t come back.

By Al in Atlanta

October 13, 2008 10:45 PM | Link to this

Please pardon my typos in the previous post… It’s just that when I see someone who makes a clearly stupid remark once they’ve proudly mounted their high horse, it just really gets me going.

By John

October 13, 2008 11:59 PM | Link to this

Al:

thanks for attempting to slam the door on northern visitor. But why do you feel it necessary to count your possessions as some sort of proof of intelligence?? Our current economic situation has clearly unveiled lots of people upon whom this theory has backfired. Al, you have just uncovered another key problem with our current education system (and society, for that matter) … that getting a good, well-rounded education is nothing more than a means to an end. I only hope that, in addition to teaching your boys how to be men, that you are teaching them how to find gratification and SELF-WORTH through their education. Sure, making lots of money is a good thing, but if a big money-maker places no value on his/her possessions beyond winning some sort of “competition with the Jones’s”, then they are surely to be pitied. Tisk, Tisk.

By Hey Al

October 14, 2008 7:38 AM | Link to this

Hey Al,

You forgot to tell us how modest are.

By Theresa

October 14, 2008 8:20 AM | Link to this

Hey Laura and Get Schooled readers — MOMania is having a discussion today about a discipline that a teacher chose for a child. The mother is very upset. We would love to have some teacher input, as well as parental comments. Please check out the topic and leave this mother some advice. Thanks!! Theresa Giarrusso, host of MOMania — www.ajc.com/momania

By northern visitor

October 14, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Al…

You fit the definition of the materialistic house negro. Trying to compete with “whitey” while all the time he is laughing in your face. Do you really think you are impressing anyone here by rattling off your possessions? Negro Please! And don’t assume that I’m white. You are one more reason why I can’t wait to get back home. Three more days in this cesspool that you call Georgia and I’m out of here.

By Al

October 14, 2008 10:03 AM | Link to this

northern visitor, Oh I’m not a house negro…or materialistic. I just have to speak to you on your own terms. White people (like you…not all) are typically on value what’s been acquired. Just a reminder, I also mentioned that I’m well educated, have a real job, am involved in the community, and take care of my family. The material success is as a result of who I am, and what I do. It doesn’t define me…unless of course, you’re attempting to do so in your narrow minded view. I’m sure you’re impressed because you’re one of those ignorant people (once again, not an insult) who resort to name calling like House Negro and Jungle Bunny. It’s so sad. I’m just trying dumb myself down to meet you where you are, and invite you to leave. Oh you’re white all right, or a psychologically disfunctional black person with anti-self disorder. Once again, please don’t come back.

By Al is a Troll

October 14, 2008 10:24 AM | Link to this

Al is a troll

By bearcasey

October 14, 2008 10:32 AM | Link to this

Math is an acquired taste. I scored 700 on the math section of the SAT in 1967 and made it through three courses of calculus at GT. Not bad. But I never came to love math. It simply isn’t for everyone, no matter how intelligent. I came to love history and taught Advanced Placement history for 30 years. I’m a nerd and proud of it, though I also played basketball, baseball and poker. I even had a date now and then. Ended up coaching high school football, basketball and baseball as well.

What’s the point? Math and science ARE important but trying to force square pegs into round holes doesn’t work. I would have been mediocre had I stayed on the math-science track. No passion for it.

NORTHERN VISITOR: I’m a “half-breed.” My dad was from New England (Brown Univ.) and my mom from north Georgia. Your characterization of the South offends my sensibilities. I’ve spent a good bit of time “up north” during my academic career. I LOVED it when competitors under-estimated me because of my southern drawl. A great advantage!

JOHNNY REB: Don’t let arrogant northerners get your goat. That’s what they want. I spent my career teaching and coaching their kids who always believed that they were “all that and a bag of chips.” My son, Beau, almost always kicked their a*******es.

By Al

October 14, 2008 11:37 AM | Link to this

Whoever posted ‘Al is a troll’ is ignorant too. Not intended as an insult, just as defined in the dictionary. It doesn’t require much thought to resort to name calling.

By Al is still a Troll

October 14, 2008 11:51 AM | Link to this

Al to be the successful black man you claim you are, you sure do spend a lot of time arguing with people who you will never meet. Do you have a day job or are you the typical negro on welfare surfing the net at the public library?

By pdl

October 14, 2008 1:48 PM | Link to this

oy vey!

First, I don’t think it should fall to parents alone nor teachers alone to get kids excited about this field. Second, I cringe at the comments made against Georgians/southerners and the ignorance on both sides of this conversation.

I’m a native Georgian, first generation college grad who had great parents and excelled in math/science. Why am I not in the math/science field now? My parents, bless their hearts, didn’t really know what was available to me in the math/science field. Their employment experience was very narrow, so while they actively encouraged me to succeed in school, they didn’t have much to offer in the way of career advice. To them, the only thing you could do in science was become a nurse or doctor. Math, you became an engineer. This is where the schools could enter in with some career guidance. The collective generally has a broader range of resources to draw from than the individual.

Now for the remarks about the south and the negative back and forth: the war is over, let it go. I have family in Minnesota, Pennsylvania, Vermont, and Australia. IGNORANCE IS EVERY WHERE.

By Al

October 14, 2008 2:38 PM | Link to this

I’m on vacation…in South America… enjoying the fruits of my labor. Just amusing myself jokeying with ignorant people like yourself. My phone service allows me web access in many places on the planet. Unlike what you see on TV, typical negros work, and most aren’t on welfare. I’m tempted to resort to name calling like you, but instead, I’ll just continue to describe you as you are…ignorant…just as the dictionary defines. You’re proving me correct. Quite honestly, I really feel sorry for you. I could be just as ignorant as you. I’m very grateful that I am not, and I won’t stoop to your level. You’re well below the northern visitor. You, unlike him, who just has faulty information, will likely ALWAYS be ignorant, and never rise above talking down about others to make yourself feel better about who you are…or who you are not. I came from meager roots, but was taught to have a good work ethic…and I’m not alone. But you’re so ignorant, you believe everything that you see and know about black people to be factual, accurate, and complete based on what you see on TV. How about you? How do you have so much time demonstrating your ignorance to strangers?

By Al is still a Troll

October 14, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

“Just amusing myself jokeying…”

Not only are you a troll but you are also illiterate!

By Tony

October 14, 2008 5:18 PM | Link to this

The poster who criticized Maureen Downey’s piece about KIPP schools is right on target. The propagandists would have everyone believe that KIPP schools are working miracles. Perhaps in some ways they are by the efforts they poor into students. Unfortunately, OpEd pieces like Maureen’s never tell the whole KIPP story.

Attrition rates in KIPP schools is only one problem. Financial issues are another. These schools are not able to deliver the “goods” within the budget that most schools are allowed. Some of the projects have been rescued with Big Buck$ from donors who want to see the model succeed.

If we could learn a lesson from KIPP, it is this. Students in difficult areas need extraordinary resources to bring them up to speed. Maureen (and others) if you really want to do justice for programs like KIPP, tell the whole story. Don’t just cherry-pick the results you want to share.

By Al

October 14, 2008 5:39 PM | Link to this

I’m not illeratate. You’re just ignorant. See the definition, because obviously, you don’t know it. Let’s see if you can figure out which definition would apply. You never answered how you have so much time demonstrating your ignorance to strangers? In additional to being ignorant, you appear to be inane too. You clearly have a limited vocabulary. I doubt you know what inane means. Try your dictionary…if you have one. You are amusing though!

jock·ey /ˈdʒɒki/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[jok-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -eys, verb, -eyed, -ey·ing. –noun 1. a person who rides horses professionally in races.
2. Informal. a person who pilots, operates, or guides the movement of something, as an airplane or automobile.
–verb (used with object) 3. to ride (a horse) as a jockey.
4. Informal. to operate or guide the movement of; pilot; drive.
5. to move, bring, put, etc., by skillful maneuvering: The movers jockeyed the sofa through the door.
6. to trick or cheat: The salesman jockeyed them into buying an expensive car.
7. to manipulate cleverly or trickily: He jockeyed himself into office.
–verb (used without object) 8. to aim at an advantage by skillful maneuvering.
9. to act trickily; seek an advantage by trickery.

[Origin: 1520–30; special use of Jock + -ey2]

—Related forms jock·ey·like, jock·ey·ish, adjective jock·ey·ship, noun

By Al is still a Troll

October 14, 2008 5:55 PM | Link to this

Al… Look idiot there is no such word as jokeying. I’m through with this. When you finish your “vacation” to South America go back to your “7000” sq ft house open up a dictionary and look up the word. Bye bye loser.

By catlady

October 14, 2008 5:57 PM | Link to this

Several points: the KIPP drop out rate is incredibly high. Sometimes people are seduced when looking for a savior. KIPP won’t take many substandard kids and turn them into true high achievers. You get out what you put in (good students plus supportive parents plus lots of money plus teachers who are devoted usually equals good output).

Re: math. Our lack of emphasis on MASTERY is what gets us. Example: kids who have not mastered rounding are NOT going to do well on estimation of answers. Another example: kids who have to count on their fingers will make mistakes and, even if they understand the more advanced process, they will NOT come up with the correct answer a good portion of the time. I work with a third grade class for math. Most of the kids know that 3+1 is 4 pretty quickly, but ask them what 1+3 is and watch them count those fingers! These are facts that should have been mastered in first grade. Their subraction skills are much worse. God help us when we hit multiplication! Last year we had 5th graders drawing and counting 56 tally marks to start the first part of the problem 126x7= Then, because they did not know their addition facts, if they happened to get the multiplication part correct, they frequently misadded.

My own kids were a mixed bag on math. The eldest worked very hard but it was very difficult for her, the middle found his calling when he began to understand the practical uses of it, and the youngest is a pure theory geek.

By luvs2teach

October 14, 2008 6:02 PM | Link to this

Tony - you are so right about the tremendous resources some of these programs utilize to make “success” happen. I read recently about a program in NYC (I wish I could remember the name) that started with pregnant women and parenting classes, continued with pre-k, remediation and resources though the later grades. Some of the kids are in middle school now and are doing well…but the time and money for this program is intensive.

Another thing that people forget about KIPP is that parents choose - and by choosing agree to things that regular schools are not allowed to do - like uniforms - usually because of parent complaints. Parent buy-in is as much, if not more a factor than how skilled the teachers are, or how many hours they put in (and I regularly put in more than fifty every week - so do many of my colleagues - that fact was nothing special). Parent buy-in also assumes paretn support for the educational process - something that many regular public school kids don’t have.

Today I had a parent conference with the mom of a child who was in private school last year. He was having some behavior issues, and when she suggested the steps his other school took, we all just laughed - we weren’t allowed to do any of them.

Finally, sometimes the problem with innovation isn’t the parents, students or staff - it could be the system or the state. My school istrying to do something innovative and we are having a reall difficulty moving around the bureaucracy that is our state DOE.

By Al

October 14, 2008 6:08 PM | Link to this

Uh, yes it is. I did look it up… for you.. and posted the definition and spelling, which apparently you were unable to read…or interpret. Here’s the abridged version:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This jock·ey /ˈdʒɒki/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[jok-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -eys, verb, -eyed, -ey·ing.

By Al

October 14, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Uh, yes it is. I did look it up… for you.. and posted the definition and spelling, which apparently you were unable to read…or interpret. Here’s the abridged version:

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source - Share This jock·ey /ˈdʒɒki/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[jok-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural -eys, verb, -eyed, -ey·ing.
You see the last line -eying, is an alternate ending for the word. Looks like you’re still entertaining everyone with your ignorance.

By 20yrteacher

October 14, 2008 6:18 PM | Link to this

Al please give it a rest! I don’t know who’s worser, you or the troll you keep feeding. Grow up!

By Northern Visitor

October 14, 2008 6:31 PM | Link to this

Al you twit you didnt write jockeying you wrote jokeying. Reread your post dumba@@!

By catlady

October 14, 2008 6:48 PM | Link to this

I sure can ‘t type very well. The math problem I gave as an illustration should have been 127x78.

General comment: Ignorance knows no boundaries of any kind.

I think one of the reasons most of the Latino kids at my school do pretty well, if not great, is because their parents are THRILLED at the OPPORTUNITY the kids have. Too bad so many of the other parents are not. Our “native” parents need the sense of urgency, the sense of how fortunate their kids are to be able to go to school. That (or its lack) is communicated to the kids from an early age.

Being selected for a special program where you feel invited to be involved and where you feel grateful for the program/school being available to your child really helps programs like KIPP, private schools, etc.

By Hey Al Guess What?

October 14, 2008 10:43 PM | Link to this

OWNED!

By jim d

October 15, 2008 8:13 AM | Link to this

“Many math experts have said teachers must find a way to get kids to see how exciting and important math is. Without strong math skills,this country will never produce another generation of mathematicians,engineers or scientists”

What a bunch of bunk!!

The truth is that if we continue to push ALL students to these ends then the prophecy will be self fulfilling. Reason being that we will be teaching to the bottom and not providing the inspiration or opportunity to those that could excel.