Get Schooled

By Jeff

October 6, 2008 9:00 AM | Link to this

Diversity is well and good, as long as TRUE diversity is encouraged.

In other words, you cannot promote just women getting involved or just blacks or just hispanics or just gays or just whatever. You must promote EVERYONE getting involved, with no hint of any kind of promotion of any particular group over another.

By Robby

October 6, 2008 10:00 AM | Link to this

I think diversity for diversity’s sake is asinine. Any student should be allowed to join a private school if their parents have the means to do so…but I’ve never understood making a special effort to achieve some arbitrary demographic breakdown of white and minority students. It’s political correctness run amuck.

By catlady

October 6, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

Don’t know if my earlier post went through. TRUE diversity would not focus on recruiting higly motiveated students of various skin colors, but would focus on the real educational diversity: skinheads, babymamas, MR kids, physically handicapped kids. If private schools wanted to really promote diversity, they would go after kids from the bottom of the achievement pool, rather than focusing on color. But of course, that is NOT what they are looking for, and they won’t be putting their money into THOSE kids.

By jim d

October 6, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

I think not if it is forced diversity. Although the University of Michigan disagree’s.

However, according to an article I read recently,“The National Association of Scholars (NAS) Disproves Michigan’s Assertion that Forced Diversity (quotas) Improves Academic Performance!”

By tom

October 6, 2008 12:29 PM | Link to this

Of course schools should pay attention to racial/ethnic diversity. Kids of the same color/ethnicity sit together because those are the familiar kids, probably from the same neighborhood, etc. Kids aren’t “naturally” attracted to other kids of the same color - they are naturally attracted to what’s familiar. If their social circle do not include black kids, Asian kids, latino kids, etc., then white kids will simply gravitat to other white kids because they are familiar.

Those who argue for other diversity like economic/academic diversity are simply trying to avoid the real issue - racial/ethnic tensions in worls society IS a problem.

By jim d

October 6, 2008 12:44 PM | Link to this

tom,

I’m afraid we really disagree on this one. Not only are there no educational outcome advantages, Forced diversity may actually have a negative effect.

Many minorities don’t really want to associate with the majority or other minorities and when this is forced upon them it creates the tension you speak of.

SET,

You may wish to chime in on this subject. You may be able to articulate this much better than I can.

By Mark

October 6, 2008 12:46 PM | Link to this

Diversity is well and good, as long as it doesn’t involve blacks or hispanics.

By catlday

October 6, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

Tom, my point is that being around other kids whose only difference is their skin color is not really treating diversity very seriously. Being in a school of a lot of high achieving kids of rainbow colors does little to expose the priveledged kids to “the real world”. In the real world, you have folks whose belief systems (ie, education is important; success comes from hard work) are radically different, and you have to figure out how to deal (and succeed!) with them. Exposing students to those types of folks would do far more to promote diversity sensitivity and growth than a whole ABC of ethnicities.

UNLESs you are under the opinion that ALL black kids are the same, etc.

By jim d

October 6, 2008 1:06 PM | Link to this

Cat,

As long as we have arbitrary attendance zones being drawn by school systems this issue will continue to plague us.

The supreme court in a recent decision in Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District indicates that the Supreme Court may be undoing the work of local districts in their effort to increase diversity with the use of these attendance zones. But even the courts have missed one huge idea whose time has come. They mentioned other efforts local district can take to promote diversity, such as redrawing attendance zones and developing new school sites and totally overlooked CHOICE SCHOOLS As an option that might take race out of the picture.

By TheBlogger

October 6, 2008 4:36 PM | Link to this

Wow! I really wonder how many right-wing conservatives that pay the big bucks to send their kid to private school are okay with knowing that part of their money is used to pay for private school tuition of others.

jim d LOL. How can you wave the ‘school choice’ flag at this one? Do you really think that, for example, a white student would make a choice to attend an African-American school across town, or that a hispanic student would make a choice to attend an all white school across town? Give me a break!

Before bringing up school choice again, please read the research literature that shows that areas where there has been school choice vs. prior to school choice in the same area show no change in any measure of student performance.

By jim d

October 6, 2008 5:32 PM | Link to this

Blogger,

ya can’t blame me for trying!

Actually i have read the stats. The one number that did improve significantly was “customer satisfaction,” with slight improvements in disciplinary issues.

So let’s see. It didn’t cost anymore to make people happy with their choice (less crumbling from irrate parents) and less discipline issues. So what’s the harm?

BTW, there are studies that also show some educationaal improvements with choice. But then we all know what a study is worth. RIGHT??

By jim d

October 6, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Oh and blogger,

the point I was attempting to make is that with choice, the courts would have a hard time screaming about diversity. Know what i mean?

By catlady

October 6, 2008 7:46 PM | Link to this

jim, see if you can find out anything about the results, racially and academically, of the limited choice program Athens/Clarke Co put in place about 1995. I have not read what the results of that have been, and I know you are pretty computer-savvy ferreting info out. If you can find out any evaulative material, please post it.

By TheBlogger

October 6, 2008 10:03 PM | Link to this

jim d-

IMHO, it seems that in today’s world, if school choice means to consume more gas which leads to higher gas prices and longer gas lines, allowing a ‘choice’ to transport a student a long distance is just stupid for the community. And, I don’t care who is paying for that extra gas, it is just plain stupid.

Here is a wild and kooky idea - if anyone is dissatisfied with their ‘local’ school for any reason at all, how about working towards improving it! Think of all of the time/effort/money that would be required to change the law to suit you, jim d (if that is possible), and then the time/effort/money to make it work and then to pay for the extra gas…… does it make sense at all????

If all of that was simply put towards improving the local school, certainly it would improve to satisfy even you, won’t it? Or, I am being too optimistic?

By steph

October 6, 2008 10:31 PM | Link to this

This article about private schools seeking to diversify the student body through tuition subsidy, while alarming, did give me a measure of relief on one front; if the undesirables are going to follow us to an expensive private school, I no longer feel the need to make the sacrifice to send my kids there.

After reading this article, I had a LONG talk with my 12 year old daughter, who from all signs, is pretty exceptional academically. I explained to her that every day, she needs to try to learn more than is required, to excel even if the extra effort is not required or even noticed. I think a smart kid with a great attitude for learning can get a great education in a decent public school. My kids will be those annoying ones that make that super high scores on the SAT/ACT through God-given gifts and hard work. I guess we’ll leave the private schools to the liberals who think everything should always be made “artificially equal”.

I guess I’d rather spend the big bucks on college than an expensive microcosm of public school.

By SET

October 6, 2008 11:36 PM | Link to this

Here’s my take. People are different. By that I mean that the ethnics are different. The groups like different things (loud noises, violence levels, bright colors, foods, whatever). Left on their own the various subgroups will go where they want and do what they want. This is why you have the different congregations at high schools - or for that matter - everywhere in society.

To each his own.

Forced integration of disparate groups with disparate values is a mistake and will fail. Ethnic groups will do business with each other when they want to.

As far as the private schools - when they have something to offer attractive to any particular group of people they will come. If one group drives out others, the school sets the terms.

I could tell you stories about a large local excercise club chain that is now all Mexican (I mean up from Tiajuana, Spanish speaking..), and both the blacks and whites have fled. You’d be nuts to go there and you wouldn’t belong in the place if you weren’t mexican. (Gee Mommy - what are those “13” tattoos??)

If the private schools we speak of here don’t understand something about cultural anthropology and fail to maintain certain standards they have only themselves to blame if their school and it’s products become undesirable.

I see nothing great about “Diversity” when that means you tolerate people who are not to be tolerated. Other than that, the businesses and associations I deal with are open to all comers but accept no trash at all.

Remember that slogan, “We do not lie, cheat or steal nor tolerate among us those that do?” It starts with that, then you may add other standards. Then see who wants to come around.

Marriott Hotels have a total non-smoking policy. I like Marriotts’. Their non-smoking policy and the way they enforce it along with their credit card policy keep low life out of their hotels. It’s brutal. I like it.

I’m not “tolerant” at all.

By jim d

October 7, 2008 6:56 AM | Link to this

Cat,

I’m afraid i’d be wasting my time inasmuch as nothing short of clearing the county and starting over could help. I say that with all due respect for the good folks of athens but we must ubderstand that Athens/Clark county has something like 8 times the number of teen prego’s as the entire country of France. Too many there are not able to make the right choices about life, let alone education.

By DB

October 7, 2008 6:58 AM | Link to this

Forced diversity is simply the far end of the spectrum from segregation — neither one of them make any sense. It will be TRUE diversity when you don’t have to look a someone’s ethnicity and think, “Oh, they only got in because they are (black)(Asian)(Hispanic)(whatever).” Ask Clarence Thomas, who felt that affirmative action was pretty much a crock, because he would go the rest of his life with people saying, “Oh, he only got into law school because of quotas, not because he’s REALLY smart …”

We’ve been sorting through college paraphanalia for the last three or four years, and we always get a giggle out of the “diversity” picture on the cover of most of the schools — let’s see, a white, a black, an Asian … hmm, ok, he’s Hispanic … yep, they got ‘em all on the cover. What a diverse school!!

At the private school my kids attend, you could always tell when they were doing a photo shoot when they would call certain names to the office during free period — “Would (Chinese), (black), (Hispanic), (National Honor Society President) (star athlete) and (token white girl) please report Mrs. Photographer’s office?” The Hispanic girl would roll her eyes and say, “OK, photo op!!” and everyone would laugh. From the cover, you’d never know that the school was 95% WASP!

By jim d

October 7, 2008 7:10 AM | Link to this

Blogger,

I’m afraid change hasn’t helped in over 40 years. Eventually even the rats must flee a sinking ship or drown.

Choice does work in that it instills parents confidence in their childrens schools, when parents have confidence in their schools, they participate more actively in volunteer programs and they vote more resources to those schools. When parents think their schools are good, they become better.

Choice, whether attained through private schools, charters, or vouchers helps parents admire their own communities and their children’s schools.

By bearcasey

October 7, 2008 10:07 AM | Link to this

Diversity in schools is GREAT if there is general agreement on values, especially educational values. If we are talking the “diversity of the street,” I’ll pass.

By Lee

October 7, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

Keyword: Private.

As in, they can spend their money however they see fit — no matter how ill advised.

“What lessons can students in a diverse school learn that those who attend a homogeneous campus can’t?”

I don’t know, how about this: In 1998, Salber and Taliaferro reported that the spousal homicide rate among African Americans is 8.4 times more than for whites. The incidence of spousal homicide is 7.7 times higher in interracial marriages compared to intraracial marriages.

Those politically correct pathogens (educators who preach diversity) didn’t teach you that in school, did they?

By cj w.

March 23, 2009 4:08 PM | Link to this

I read the article about private schools attempt to become more diverse. Here is my experience. My family recently relocated to the Atlanta area from New England. We were paying approximately $16,000 per year for my 1st grader to attend a private school. We took tours of GACS, Pace, Weslyan, Woodward, and Mt Pisgah. GACS and Woodward were the only schools that we found to have any diversity. When I question our tour guide at Weslyan about their lack of diversity, she mentioned a group called a better chance. When I questioned the tour guide at Mt Pisgah about their lack of diversity, I was told and I am quoting, this is white bread America and If I am interested in diversity in a school I needed to look to the public school system. Needless to say the tour was over for me.

It is great that schools are looking to help underprivileged children get into private schools, but guess what there are actually African Americans and other minority groups who can afford to send their children to private schools. It was very insulting to me that diversity equate poor to some people. And yes diversity in schools is very important. America is becoming more and more diverse by the minute.