By Tony

October 3, 2008 8:35 AM | Link to this

Excuse me, but claiming that last spring’s math CRCT is proof that test scores drop in middle school neglects the other factors - mainly a new curriculum. During the last three years the new curriculum and higher standards for passing tests have been phased in. Of course there will be drops in CRCT scores.

What middle schools need is more funding for professional development of teachers. Especially in the areas of math and science. With more advanced curriculum, teachers must have better understanding of what to teach and how to teach it. Yet, time and funding for professional learning is robbed from us every year.

To better support middle school students we also need to establish high expectations in our homes and stop making excuses for kids who don’t do their work. Yesterday’s blog was an indicator that more efforts are underway to undermine the true purpose of schools and that is to educate children.

Yes. The overall concept/design of middle schools is a good one. Let’s support the schools with better professional learning funds and better discipline policies.

By jim d

October 3, 2008 8:58 AM | Link to this

C’mon Tony,

more funding?

You can’t be serious. More money hasn’t fixed it to date.

If money could fix the problems GCPS should be amongst the best in the nation and it just hasn’t happened

The 2009 buget GCPS: $1.859 billion

Projected cost per pupil: $8,156

By Tony

October 3, 2008 9:17 AM | Link to this

Yes, jim d, more funding.

The staff development budgets have been targeted for cuts year after year. Yet, this is one area where we can have more of an impact on what happens in classrooms. Middle schools receive the least funding of all funding categories. There are ways to shift the funding formulas without a net increase in spending.

The governor saw fit to add “graduation coaches” to middle schools. This funding could have a much bigger effect on students if it was used for teachers’ professional learning.

By Lee

October 3, 2008 9:31 AM | Link to this

Let’s see, the University of GA School of Education hosts a conference and says that there is a need for “more teacher training, more training for principals, and more counselors.”

Gee, I never saw that one coming.

When I read this blog about high schoolers who function on a grade school level, I would say the problem is in the execution rather than the design. (How did they get passed along to High School?)

By jim d

October 3, 2008 9:40 AM | Link to this

OK Tony I agree with shifting funding and stopping waste. the point is that that doesn’t equate to more funding.

BTW have you read or heard M. Hayes Mizell speak on MS reform? If not there is a good collection of some of his remarks that can be found at Shooting for the Sun

By bearcasey

October 3, 2008 10:18 AM | Link to this

The middle school concept has been flawed from its inception and is the product of “school politics.” Here’s why:

• It is based on the notion that chidren between the ages of 11-14 are “different” and they must be catered to.

• There is a shortge of academic teachers who are willling to work with this age group.

• The middle school is the creation of schools of education in colleges who are in a contest to pull students away from liberal arts programs.

• Students in middle schools fall into three groups: those who haven’t mastered the basics, those who are ready for a little more, and those ready (almost) for high school. The middle school addresses only the middle group.

• Middle schools attemppt to replace parents. It’s their reason for existence.

By V for Vendetta

October 3, 2008 10:29 AM | Link to this

Good point, Lee. Perhaps if they hold the students accountable for what they SHOULD have learned, then they will be better prepared by the time they reach high school. Perhaps the better appropriation of funds would also solve the problem; however Jim D is right about the answer not being MORE money. We’re already headed down the Clayton path, we don’t need to sprint down it.

By jim d

October 3, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

REDIGN, from the ground up. starting with the buildings. Many MS’s today house more than 3000-4000 students. there is no way in hell that a teacher can teach or a student can excell to their full potential under these conditions. When you treat people as cattle they instinctfully act like cattle, including an occassional stampede. Smaller more personal schools can eliminate this.

Then let’s provide smaller more personal classes. Where the teacher and students become closer emotionally and more intuned to the demands being placed on them.

Hire and retain only the most qualified teachers. Group students by ability and desire to learn.

Refuse to move them on into HS until they have demonstrated not just the ability to do the work but a desire to learn as well.

And last but not least. Provide an alternative to high school. Not every student has a desire nor the ability to continue into high school. We should be providing these children with tools they can use for a lifetime of success.

By TheBlogger

October 3, 2008 11:16 AM | Link to this

ARGGGG!

What the h@ll?

I can tell you exactly what’s wrong with middle schools. And, to “fix” it won’t cost a dime.

The problem is too much concern for the little students ego, self-esteem, etc. In other words, too many excuses for bad behavior and for not learning the content. Their poor little hormones are raging, they “feel” like they don’t want to study, blah, blah, blah.

This problem results in students not learning the content which results in bad test scores - plain and simple. Teachers are told to never give a student an F because it will damage the students ego - what the f@#k? Then, students fail the CRCT and the administrators pass them on to the next grade any way.

To “fix” this problem, it doesn’t cost anything. Encourage teachers to teach content and to assess on content knowledge only. Report the grade for the student that accurately reflects that students knowledge and disregard any concerns about their ego or whatever. A grade should reflect content knowledge ONLY.

If they fail, then they get an F, plain and simple. If they have to repeat a grade, then so be it.

By abcdefghijklamnop...

October 3, 2008 11:33 AM | Link to this

Middle school schmiddle school. Ya’ll need to check out the newest edition to “teacher screwing”. TRS, under the brave leadership of Sonny Perdue, has decided to change its wording for its retirement benefit plan. The board of trustees (appointed by old Sonofa himself)is voting to reword the plan from “teachers will receive a cost of living increase” to “teachers MAY recevie a cost of living increase”. We all know that our few short years of receiving cost of living raises and steps is gone for a while. “But since we get such great benefits, we shouldn’t complain.” The board is about to vote to get rid of those benefits.
What’s more frightening, is that TRS is a profitable business. Putting it into the hands of the state that is billions of dollars in debt, is a horrific mistake.
CONTACT TRS!!!

By Tony

October 3, 2008 1:11 PM | Link to this

jim d - you speak out of both sides of your mouth. First you say no more funding. Then you say smaller classes and smaller schools. Talk about a huge cost!

By Meme

October 3, 2008 1:20 PM | Link to this

Thank you “The Blogger”. You hit the nail on the head. And “Lee”, how true, how true.

By jim d

October 3, 2008 1:41 PM | Link to this

Tony,

I don’t know. One would think that cutting ALL the fat would net savings enough to pay for it. you could do a lot by reducing the numbers of principals making a quarter million a year, and all of the asst. principals they know hire. then eliminate all the salaries being paid for retired employees for consulting on a part time bassis that equals their salaries prior to retirement. I’m confident none of this goes on in your school system but I can assure you it does in the states largest system.

By jim d

October 3, 2008 1:44 PM | Link to this

oops, failed to mention putting a halt to issuing contracts worth $10’s of millions without competitive bidding and writting chnage orders doubling the price of a contract.

By high school teacher

October 3, 2008 2:33 PM | Link to this

Start by putting 6th grade back in grammar school. Then, put 9th grade back in junior high with 7th and 8th grades.

By tom

October 3, 2008 2:56 PM | Link to this

I just wonder if there is anything for which teachers and administrators should be accountable. It seems to be all students’ fault for not learning, the government’s fault for not providing enough funding, etc., etc…

There are many successful and unsuccessful 6-8 schools as there are many successful and unsucessful K-5, K-6, K-8, 7-8, 7-9, etc Don’t forget all those unsuccessful high schools either.

By jan

October 3, 2008 3:28 PM | Link to this

I can only speak for myself:

A: Parents need to be held accountable! Kids who are absent, not doing their work, bad behaviors — I HAVE SAID THIS BEFORE, if you tie benefit money to attendance and behavior, you will get more from those parents and those students.

B. We need the STAR program(some have it, we don’t-funding issue)

C. We need a judicial system that supports teachers and administrators.

D. We worry so much about the one’s not getting it, that the higher students are left to just cruise through middle school.

By middle school teacher

October 3, 2008 3:44 PM | Link to this

Most of you are completely talking out of the wrong end…If you had ever spent time with large groups of semi-adults, you would know the solution are none of the things you propose, and some of you are playing the same tune over and over. The Middle School Concept works if done in its true form. Students that are growing at accelerated rates, whose brain chemistry are filled with hormones, need a different approach. I teach these kids everyday, and while some do not care, most need the most involved, dedicated teachers they can get. Teaching these kids takes more energy and support than any other level. Most of our problems at this level are not due to US wanting to not hurt their feelings, or not enough money, but in the fact that their entire lives they have either been let do whatever they want, or they have parents who think their little Johnny, Susie, Juan or Jaquitta can or does no wrong. Also, lip service is given that we are doing Middle School, when most of today’s administrators have NO clue what middle school is about, how to deal with those who have no desire to be here, or are told because of our wonderful federal NCLB, that if we don’t keep those who don’t want to be here entertained and educated, WE have failed.

By mom3boys

October 3, 2008 4:12 PM | Link to this

What a hoot! Staff development money…we get whatever the “cure-du-jour” is for the year! If it’s the principal’s pet project we get it! Graduation coaches do basically nothing in MS except run the advisement program (another joke). Oh, wait, they also pull kids from our academic classes to discuss with them their need to pass their academic classes. Next source of waste: academic coach. This person is supposed to be the go-to person for all content and quality plus teaching strategy questions. Again, total waste of money. If we quit lowering the bar when it comes to expectations, perhaps these kids would surprise us with what they are capable of doing. Instead, we expect little and get exactly what we expect….until it’s time for testing, and buddy they better perform!! sigh….it’s sooooooooo frustrating!!!

By bwhite

October 3, 2008 5:11 PM | Link to this

We have poor expectations and let poor behavior slide.

By jim d is a busybody

October 3, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Tony jim d suffers from diarrhea of the mouth. He is never wrong so don’t bother correcting him. He should pursue a career in politics.

By jw

October 3, 2008 6:09 PM | Link to this

Being a middle school teacher, I have noticed a couple of things.

First, students do not come prepared for the environment that they will experience for 3 years. Defined, we are very subject oriented at middle level - we see what the weakness of the elementary self contained teacher is. If that elementary teacher is strong in social studies, that is what the children know - at the expense of reading, math, science and language. That in itself will guarantee that some students needy in certain areas to be WAY behind when they come to MS.

Next, although CRCT testing is ‘supposed’ to prevent students from moving ‘up’ if they fail, rarely, if ever, do those student repeat a grade. Every study that is available will tell you that retention will not work for 11 to 14 year olds (traditional 6th to 8th graders) - it is almost a 100 percent guarantee that the student retained in middle school will drop out. Many studies DO show that retention early CAN and WILL work - time to start doing that!

Next, the current curriculum requirements are not even close to matching the ability levels of an average student. Case in point, the math curriculum. Algebra in 8th grade is ridiculous - the very people making policy are the same ones that had the advanced math courses introduced to them in the high school years! Seems Algebra should be introduced in 8th grade, but not a whopping 50 percent of the 8th grade CRCT test weighting - that would be 30 of the 60 questions on the test! That is a prescription for failure in itself.

Personally, the model of ‘teams’ can’t work when you have 150 - 200 students on a team. There is very little wiggle in a schedule with that many students involved. As earlier stated, schools with 1400 - 3000 students can’t effectively deal with students with any deficiencies - the sheer numbers and teacher funding isn’t available to ability group students.

I think one of the things that would help middle schooling is cut back on the 2 segment planning in a 7 segment day - if students are not passing classes, it is time to use one of those exploratory, connections blocks for extra instruction. Most connection/exploratory teachers have concentrations in core content areas!

My two cents - from a teacher working in a Georgia school district with a 70 percent Hispanic population that had EVERY school in the district meet AYP requirements!

By Michael

October 3, 2008 6:28 PM | Link to this

Middle schools fail b/c of Elem Principals. No 5th grader should be promoted w/o passing the CRCT but over 99.&% of them are any ways. How can Middle Schools be expected to teach kids who are on the 2nd or 3rd grade level?

By Tracy

October 3, 2008 7:30 PM | Link to this

I agree with “high school teacher”. My son started seventh grade this year and is finally adjusting to middle school however sixth graders should stay in elementary school. Eleven year olds should not be in the same school with fourteen year olds and fourteen year olds should not be in school with eighteen year olds. Who are the emulating? The older kids that’s who. Where do some of the behavior problems stem from? Younger children mimicking older children and trying to pretend they are grown up. Allowing younger children to stay in elementary allows for another year of learning the basics. Allowing ninth graders to stay in Jr. high allows for another year of being around kids closer to their age groups and learning in an environment tailored more to their learning needs. Middle school was a bad idea. It forces children to grow up before they are physically and emotionally able and takes away from the education that they should be receiving.

By TheBlogger

October 3, 2008 9:14 PM | Link to this

Tracy - It doesn’t matter what grade is in what school if….. students are not held accountable for their learning; if….. students know that they will be passed on any way when they fail; if….. students know that the CRCT is a joke when administrators pass them along when they fail it.

Should teachers be held accountable? Yes! But only for teaching content. Teachers cannot be held accountable for ill-prepared students that have been passed along from grade to grade and haven’t learned a darn thing.

One post said that elementary teachers only teach the subject that they like and that is all those students know. If that is true, then those teachers also need to held accountable.

Schools need to desperately forget about concerns for student ego, feelings, hormones, blah, blah, blah. These things shouldn’t matter if schools focus on teaching content. Schools should not be in business to teach morals, values, etc. - that is the job of the parent(s).

What is the best way to build self-esteem? Help a student to succeed in something that really matters, like mastering subject content and passing the CRCT.

I teach high school and I have students that think that they should get an A and be praised because they put glue and glitter on a poster. Sad. Very sad.

By bilbo

October 4, 2008 9:51 AM | Link to this

I realize that this is teachers’ griping forum, but, boy, you guys are a bunch of “not me, it’s __’s fault” ” whiners. Are you sure you guys are really professional educators? Students not prepared? Aren’t you trained to be teachers to help those? Parents not involved? I thought you are teaching students. Don’t have enough money for staff training? I though administrators were supposed to be instructional leaders - can’t you provide the necessary training?

Gosh, you guys are a bunch of loosers - no wonder our schools are failing because so-called educators are failing.

By elise

October 4, 2008 10:14 AM | Link to this

To better prepare students for the middle school environment, elementary schools should do away with the self-contained model for at least the fourth and fifth grades. It is naive to think that one teacher could integrate and do a good job with all the different subjects. No wonder the students are not prepared for the academic rigor of middle school when elementary schools focus on reading only. Middle schools should also do away with the team teaching model and have teachers teach one subject. That will do away with teachers being a jack of all trades and a master of none.

By mmmm

October 4, 2008 10:28 AM | Link to this

As if HS teachers (or any single subject matter teachers) are really “masters” of anything, LOL.

By llll

October 4, 2008 10:41 AM | Link to this

Great point, mmmm. But you missed something - I think they are masters of whining. Just look at all those HS teachers in this forum.

By JD

October 4, 2008 11:15 AM | Link to this

I just love how the middle school teachers are blaming the elementary school teachers and administrators! My children (1 just graduated as an honor student and the other is an A student in high school) had the best teachers in elementary and high school, but the majority of their middle school teachers were a joke. My child’s 7th and 8th grade math teachers were so bad that they did not renew their contracts the next year! Only a few of their teachers were exceptional. This summer the middle school principal became frustrated and told the secretary to write a letter and pass all the students that had failed the math CRCT for the second time, and let the high school worry about it! As one of the high school teachers says, “Middle school is the black hole of education!” The entire system does not work in middle school, and I’m sorry to inform the middle school teachers, but it isn’t entirely the fault of the parents and students.

By SKT

October 4, 2008 11:54 AM | Link to this

I completely concur with JD - although I won’t let elementary and HS teachers off the hook so easily. My kids are in HS, and I can’t say I’m impressed with their teachers. Most of their elementary school teachers are so-so, too. Teachers (at all level) should take the responsibility for their students’ academic success/failure - for a great majority of students. If they are teaching their students to just to pass the CRCT, then they aren’t doing their job.

I’m impressed to hear that your child’s MS actually fired a teacher (well - non-renewal isn’t exactly firing, but it is still refreshing).

By luvs2teach

October 4, 2008 12:28 PM | Link to this

I’m a middle school science teacher - I teach 8th grade - I also have a “real” science degree - I got my teaching certificate later.

I did not know what I was getting into as far as the “middle school model” goes - I thought it would be more like my 7 - 9 junior high…nope. Not. At. All.

While I understand the reasoning behind some of the middle school model ideas, I think it juvenilizes the students and often makes them LESS responsible for THEIR learning. I also blame a lot of problem on the fact that they don’t accumulate credits like in high school You can have a child FAIL math and English, and still be PROMOTED to the next grade (of course the chickens come home to roost by 8th when failing the CRCT becomes an issue).

I think middle school should be 4th through 6th and junior high should be 7th through 9th. I think advanced students should be able to start earning HS school credit in 7th grade.

And for those of you commenting on the blame game or the whining…well, I thought I knew how to solve the problems, too, as an outsider - you have no idea how entrenched some of this stuff is within the system and how resistant EVERYONE (parents and teachers included in that) is to real, effective change. As a parent and a teacher, I strongly believe that education is like a three-legged - teachers, students, parents - and all three legs must be strong to keep the stool standing. Those of you who are good parents and are supportive of your children’s education - thank you, BTW - have no idea how many parents are out there that don’t. You have no idea how many kids have already “checked out” by 8th grade, and receive the message at home that education is not valuable. Watch season 4 of “The Wire” to get a smapling of what it’s like in some schools.

By lovemy4kids

October 4, 2008 12:32 PM | Link to this

That cow patty with a little marshmallow on top that Congressman Broun would not eat, has been wholeheartedly swallowed by the Federal Reserve- government schooled masses. PR Queen Nancy Pelosi, Nobama, McPain, King George Bush I & II, Ben “the Fed” Bernanke, and “Golden Socks” Paulson wholeheartedly approve of our fine education system! It is working just as planned….

PAULSON/BERNANKE for President! “Why not? We already own all of your change.”

By elise

October 4, 2008 12:53 PM | Link to this

I think middle school should be 4th through 6th and junior high should be 7th through 9th. I think advanced students should be able to start earning HS school credit in 7th grade

Great idea luvs2teach! Now how to we get educrats to go along with that very practical idea?

By An insider's view

October 4, 2008 1:00 PM | Link to this

“My child’s 7th and 8th grade math teachers were so bad that they did not renew their contracts the next year!”

JD - Probably because they were just at a middle school until they could get a high school job - most teachers want to work with either elementary or high - few want to work with middle - but middle is where the jobs are because people don’t stay there. Also, middle school teachers are forced to teach to everyone - there is no tracking (outside of gifted).

“My children (1 just graduated as an honor student and the other is an A student in high school) had the best teachers in elementary and high school, but the majority of their middle school teachers were a joke.”

Your kids may have done well in ES, but they had kids in the MS room that didn’t - those kids dragged your kids’ education down as the teacher tried to teach everyone. The buzzword is differentiation, but it’s very difficult to do effectively without proper training and support.

By non-educator

October 4, 2008 2:00 PM | Link to this

I think middle school should be 4th through 6th and junior high should be 7th through 9th. I think advanced students should be able to start earning HS school credit in 7th grade

Can you articulate what the difference between MS and JrHS is? Are they so different? If so, is your problem because you are trying to approach MS with JHS perspective?

Just curious.

By luvs2teach

October 4, 2008 2:52 PM | Link to this

non-educator - I personally don’t have a problem, but middle schools in general do. Most middle school advocates will tell you that a properly and fully implemented middle school program is superior to the old junior high model, and that a large part of the problem is that most schools cherry-pick parts of the full model. Basically, they are junior highs in practice, and middle schools in name only. IMHO, school success is independent of the model chosen. I know of excellent middle schools (Brown Barge Middle School in Florida, for example) and excellent schools based on more of a traditional junior high model (Parkland Middle School in Maryland).

For some information on the middle school model, try the National Middle School Association and MiddleWeb.

Generally, I am in agreement with teaming of students and integration of concepts, but since the middle grades certificate covers grades 4 through 8, I think scaling it down to 4th grade, and keeping the teaming through 6th is a better way to transition students to the rigors of secondary education.

I think that by 7th grade, capable students should be earning HS credit, particularly in the areas of math and foreign language. They also need to have more career exploration. I firmly believe that we are doing our children a disservice by keeping them back. They will rise to the challenge.

I also think many parents have a problem with a 14 year old attending school with an 18 or 19 year old - a common age difference between a freshman and a senior.

BTW, for the record, my first experience with the middle school model was when my daughter started middle school - I didn’t start teaching until she entered high school.

By for the record

October 4, 2008 3:00 PM | Link to this

I counted 5 posts from middle school teachers. jim d and lee are parents, and tony is an administrator. There were several HS teachers posting. JD and bilbo should reread some of the comments before they post stuff like “I just love how the middle school teachers are blaming the elementary school teachers and administrators” and “I realize that this is teachers’ griping forum, but, boy, you guys are a bunch of “not me, it’s __’s fault” ” whiners.”

bilbo, tell me, if a child comes to me reading on a 4th grade reading level, and and as a 7th grade teacher, I get them to a 6th grade reading level, am I a failure for not getting them to 7th or a success for getting them to increase 2 reading levels? Just curious.

By Steve

October 4, 2008 3:14 PM | Link to this

A few thoughts. Parents do not keep the “bad” ones at home and just send the “good” ones to school. How many of you want to have a 16 year old disruptive delinquent in the same class as your 12 year old daughter? Every student is given curriculum to be on the college track even though they come from a family with a history of dropping out of school by the 7th grade. Maybe we should follow models from other countries where only the “best” are allowed to continue their education and others are tracked into vocational school (I bet the NAACP, liberals and politicians would support that). Why are high school teachers complaining about everyone else but never about the high school drop out rate? No driver’s licence if they drop out of middle school. Why isn’t the juvenile justice system brought up? I teach 2 classes where more than 50% are on probation and walking the steets at 2AM and nothing is being done to address these concerns. One year I had 4 students in one class that had ankle bracelets. I can’t get parents involved unless I take up a cell phone that the student was texting on during class. This year was new science books and I got 50 books for 115 students, no supply money, no field trips, am told to ptovide supplies to kids that refuse to bring supplies to class (paper, pencil) and then am told I should be highly motivated and be creative to get these to learn. Yes, I teach middle school. From reading some of the entries I can infer certain things. Education is not about education, it is about being a political football. Education is not about education, it is about bean counters counting beans. Education is not about education if you (as a parent) expect the teacher to cater to your whims, especially at the expense of another child. The hardcore reality is that many parents of kids that disrupt classes, ask the teachers for help. If the education system listened to most of your writings then (my guess) 50% of all middle school students would be walking the streets instead of being in the only place that gives them some structure. Try something new. Don’t undermine, try being an advocate. You might make a difference. Just because somebody at the crystal palace at UGA School of Ed thinks something - that does not mean much of anything is going to be done. Especially since they are not in a middle school classroom. Their opinion is like a belly button, everyone has one and it is not much good for anything.

By TheBlogger

October 4, 2008 4:27 PM | Link to this

Steve -

First of all, may I introduce you to something called a paragraph? It makes reading your writing much easier.

Second, high school teachers and everyone is concerning with the drop out rate of students. However, there is an old saying that state, “SH#T in = SH#T out.” If high schools get kids that cannot read at all and cannot do the most basic math (2+2= ), how the heck can anyone expect those students to learn high school level content?

As a high school teacher, myself, I only ask that the student sitting in front of me have a minimal level of knowledge to start. I can deal with poor textbooks (or even no textbooks). I can deal with horrible facilities (leaky ceilings, broken windows, etc.).

But, I cannot be expected to teach a 16 year old sitting in front of me not only the high school curriculum (GPS) in addition to teaching them how to read, how to write, basic math skills, how to properly behave, and so on. It just “ain’t” gonna happen. These are the very kids that get frustrated and will most certainly drop out.

This is why I question how the heck these kids passed from grade to grade from 1st grade all of the way to high school knowing nothing at all. It just doesn’t make sense to me.

Teachers in elementary and middle school need to be allowed to fail students that don’t learn the content. Failure is sometimes the best thing for some kids. They might just wake up and realize that it is called school “work” for a reason.

Administrators need to absolutely stop promoting kids that fail the CRCT, period. No exceptions, no excuses, no reasons.

Teachers need to be held accountable for teaching all of the content. If, as someone posted earlier, an elementary teacher only teaches social studies because that is what she likes, then she needs to be reprimanded by the administration for not doing her job.

By Steve

October 4, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Blogger, I was a research scientist that decided to teach. Not an academic research (they are at the bottom ot the totem pole) but a real research scientist. I had a secretary that did my typing and laying out the papers so they were in paragraphs. In the world I worked in we did not waste time worrying about paragraphs but spent time analyzing, experimenting, designing and researching. So, this writing across the curriculum does not work for me. I was not attempting to belittle high school teachers as I have a load of respect for them. Previous blogs were pointing fingers but not my fault. I have a friend (a fellow PhD geneticist that is the tops in his field) that echoed what a lot are posting here. I invited him to come in and work with middle schoolers for a week. His job was to teach genetics and I prepped him thoroughly. He left after 2 days and has not once made a negative comment about education since. He has a lot to say about student motivation and parents. His biggest amazement was the retention from one minute to the next, the inability to transfer basic knowledge, the total apathy. Basically, the complete lack of caring. For Georgia, education is a babysitter. Granted there are a lot of teachers that cannot conjugate a verb and that is a problem. But, if the student does not value, has never valued and has no support from home then success is a very low probability. There is a strong correlation between free and reduced lunch and drop out rates. No rocket science here. Compare it to low acheivement. I do not know if it is true about intelligence set in the first year of life but I believe there is some validity. How can education fix this? I also teach at the university level so I ask a lot of questions. Reading experts tell me that a 6th grader that reads at the 2nd grade level will (in all probability) never be able to read even with intensive intervention. I have experts at the elementary level tell me that if a child has not been exposed to a book prior to pre-K then there is a hard reality about never be able to read on level. You hear about teachers instilling a love of reading but deeper investigation shows they started with kids that were exposed to reading. Pne positive note is a program called Early College. This will soon become a joke as self interest will prevail. Why, no computers, no powerpointsm no whiteboards, no clicker systems, etc. Plain, simple basics and student oriented hands on projects. Will this become a reality? No, as colleges and universities are intervening with undergrads and post grad students providing individualized instruction. But, the lack of technology is a sore point for many at the university level and Bill Gates. Back to my point. Why undermine? Why not get involved. So many that have negative comments are not involved. As a high school teacher have you ever visited your feeder middle school or elementary school during the day? You will probably find out some very interesting stuff. I do as often as I can. I even visit the high school classes in session and see former students (and yes, not surprised to find out who dropped out - very predictable). This last statement should provide some fodder for someone. I try to stay involved. I even teach science classes (with appropriate activities) to homeschooling parents - at no cost. Involvement is the only way I see anything getting fixed, even if it is mentoring or just visiting classrooms. Do something besides point fingers.

By bilbo

October 4, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

bilbo, tell me, if a child comes to me reading on a 4th grade reading level, and and as a 7th grade teacher, I get them to a 6th grade reading level, am I a failure for not getting them to 7th or a success for getting them to increase 2 reading levels? Just curious.

I say you are just doing your job. Nothing special and but nothing to sneeze about, either. Just keep doing what you are trained to do, and keep working on improving your skills so that you will even do better. Stop wasting your time whining.

By for the record

October 4, 2008 7:39 PM | Link to this

“Stop wasting your time whining.”

bilbo - I’m not. I don’t. I was simply asking for your opinion. HAGD.

By TheBlogger

October 4, 2008 8:14 PM | Link to this

Steve -

First of all, the whole point of a blog (as I understand) is to point fingers at problems and post possible solutions.

Second, I don’t see where your views differ that much from mine. My point is that if there are students not ready to be promoted to the next grade (and by “not ready” I mean that they haven’t gotten the content knowledge) then they should not be promoted to the next grade level.

Each grade in school should be regarded as a type of “gate” where students either are able to go through the gate or they must remain in that grade until they can.

Our major problem in education is that there are no gates at all and the students wonder from grade to grade without being prepared. The result is too many students in high school that have the knowledge level of some elementary grades.

The CRCT was supposed to be a type of gate for select grades, but the politicans allowed for a loop hole where administrators simply take the hinges off of the gates and students are still moving on ill-prepared.

By Teacher1080

October 5, 2008 6:33 PM | Link to this

I teach middle school. I love this age; their smart remarks, attitudes, growing pains, confusion, etc. They are odd little creatures at this age, but they are also looking to find themselves. I try to be a good example and role model for my students because many of them do not have that at home.

With that said, it is hard to teach kids who have sorry parents. Every year, it seems like more and more kids have absent parents. Some are absent due to divorce, some are absent due to jobs, and others are absent because they are scum. It’s hard to teach a kid who has NO support at home.

Another problem is in the schools themselves. Most of the teachers are fine, but the administration needs restructuring. At our school, our admin will not allow us to give a grade lower than a 50. We also must take late work up until the end of the 9 week grading period. What does this teach our kids? That being lazy and not doing your work until the last minute is okay in the real world? It isn’t allowed in the high school, so why do we allow it? We pass kids who shouldn’t pass because our administrators make us pass them. They don’t want another year of little Johnny because he was a behavior problem. Is that fair to the kid? No. Social promotion is a crock. They don’t socially promote you in college, so why are we doing it in middle school?

As a teacher, I’m doing my best to educate my students and prepare them for high school. I have many who are not prepared for the 8th grade when I get them, so I’m trying to make up for lost time. Not all of them are ready to move to high school. But, I’m just one person, and my voice doesn’t count. If my administrator says that they go to high school, they go.

By mystery poster

October 5, 2008 6:39 PM | Link to this

Correlation does not imply cause. Just because students who are retained a grade are more likely to drop out doesn’t mean that the former causes the latter.

Perhaps the fact that they’re not good students causes both.

By Elizabeth

October 5, 2008 6:42 PM | Link to this

There are so many ridiculous statements in this blog that I hardly know where to start.

First of all, a nonrenewal IS a firing. It means the teacher does not get to come back to teach another year, and teachers with a nonrenewal on file have trouble getting a job elsewhere.

Second, most middle school teachers do not blame lelementary teachers for sending kids on— we blame administrators and a system that says a chiid can only be retained ONCE in elementary and middle school— once those two retentions have happened, the student WILL be sent on so because the feeling is that the child is too old and retaining the child has accomplished nothing. This is true in lny a few cases— when the child has serious learning problems that cannot be met easily in a large classroom. But the majority of students fail because they refuse to do the work. That happened in my 6th grade classroom last year. We retained 7 students who refused all year to lift a pencil and write a word— even though the capability was there. What am I supposed to do about that? I cannot physically force the child to work or learn.

Third, I agree with those who said that if you want beter instruction, then require middle school teachers to be subject certified— as I am. Many have certification that gives them a concentration in several areas— they can be moved each year as the needs of the school chamge. Sometimes all you have to take a test to get certified in a subject. Passing a test does take the place of a college degree with a major in the teaching area. I worked with a Language Arts teacher who proudly proclaimed that she had only read one book - the one she was required to teach to her 6th grade GIFTED kids. This teacher read every word of the novel out loud to these kids. I worked with another in middle school who thought thast the way to teach writing was to teach grammar and the rest would fall into place. Get subject specialists into middle school— not generalists who only have to pass a test to be qualified in an area.

Fourth, if you want smaller classes, then the state has to pay for more teachers for smaller classes— and they will not. They are more interested in cutting teacher benefits and pay.

Fifth, if you cut out that planning block, then you cut out time teachers need to grade papers, have parent conferences, learn how to teach new things, and do all of the other things we are REQUIRED to do each and every day. I already work 8 hours a week on my own time— time I do not get paid for. Cut half my planning time and I will cut back to half that work time outside of school. If you want better prepared teachers, they have to have time to prepare— during the school day when thay can work together.

Sixth— you say we should be able to teach all the kids in the class. All should get individual attention? I teach in a 90 minute block schdule. I have the maximum of 28 students in that class- they range from high to very low. Divide 28 students by 90 minutes — that gives about 2 minutes per child to give individual attention. You want more individual instruction— cut class size. You want more writing that has to be graded daily— cut class size. I am doing all I can do to teach all of my students. But I will not give up my entire personal life— not for the money and lack of respect I get from children adults, legislators, and a host of others whose only classroom experience is memories of their own days in school. You think I should do better? Do more? Come on down and SHOW ME HOW! Spend a month with me and show me! I dare you!

Last, the bloggers are right about one thing— middle school does not work. There is no student accountability for anything they do. I do not mind being accoutable for what my students are taught— but there has to be accountability for parents, students, and adiministrators also — and I do not see that. I CANNOT DO IT ALONE.

I am a teacher. Let me teach, back me up, make the kids perform, make the parents do their part, and they will learn. Otherwise, nothing will change.

By MS Teacher

October 5, 2008 8:23 PM | Link to this

Really the only thing I can say is that unless you have done our job keep your mouth shut. I don’t blame elementary teachers or any administrators, I BLAME PARENTS! Maybe if your child had some home training, I could teach instead of discipline all day long.

P.S. I have taught HS and MS

By TheBlogger

October 5, 2008 8:45 PM | Link to this

A proposed solutions….

Allow students that don’t learn grade-level content to fail and to repeat a grade regardless of what the grade is (elementary, middle, high). There should be no limits to how many times a student can repeat a grade - they should continue to repeat it until they have a proven understanding of the knowledge.

If a student’s age is more than 3 years beyond the age appropriate for that grade level for whatever reason, then that student is removed from the regular class and placed in an alternative class. This alternative class can be in the school or can be at another school. This alternative class is basically independent study with teacher guidance. If that student still cannot learn the content after one yeat, that student is sent to the official alternative school for that school system until graduation. There, they may work on a GED, a regular high school diploma, or even ‘mark time’ until they can officially drop out.

No student should be allowed to disrupt the education of other students - and that includes slowing down the pace.

By lovemy4kids

October 6, 2008 1:40 AM | Link to this

It would seem that the U.S. Treasury now has its own “call center” headed up by Mr. “Cash-n-carry” to give technical advice to fellow investment bankers on how to get their fair share of the $700 billion welfare check.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122325337693906423.html

Perhaps, as a nice “thank you” he could spare a dime for middle school teacher pay raises?

By Lee

October 6, 2008 7:44 AM | Link to this

“Really the only thing I can say is that unless you have done our job keep your mouth shut. I don’t blame elementary teachers or any administrators, I BLAME PARENTS!”

::Sigh:: Here we go again….

Maybe, just maybe, if the SCHOOLS did their job and not graduate illiterates, we parents wouldn’t have to comment.

There’s a lot of blame to go around. With your attitude, might I suggest looking in the mirror if you want to blame someone.

By Leia

October 6, 2008 8:42 AM | Link to this

Lee - most of us teachers are also parents, so, we understand your frustrations. On the other hand, most of you parents are not teachers - so, you don’t understand our frustrations!

Unfortunately, most of the problems that I see at my high school stem from students with absolutely no regard for authority, rules, or common decency. These are the students who take up most of the teachers time with discipline, instead of teaching. Who’s to blame for that?

By Jeff

October 6, 2008 9:36 AM | Link to this

Regarding Lit teachers that don’t read:

T - my wife, the HS English teacher - is a horrible speller and has read ONE book so far this year (she’s reading #2 now) outside of class. She doesn’t read the books she teaches at home, unknown if she does it at work.

I, on the other hand: Former MS/HS Math teacher with a math-oriented degree (Computer Science), been in the computing field and away from teaching for nearly two years now (1.5 years of that as a programmer, since July as general hardware support for the local DA’s office).

And I am currently reading my 45th book of the year, average page count somewhere in the 300-400 range at least.

I love my wife, and she fits into the current educational system FAR more than I ever DREAMED of, but tell me, who do you REALLY want for your kid’s teacher: A person who got a generic Education degree with a couple of classes in the content, or someone whose degree is content specific and happened to get extra training in Education?

T and I disagree on this one, but hey, at least it means that our kid will be assured of the best of BOTH worlds…

By 30 year teacher

October 6, 2008 10:26 AM | Link to this

jeff, I am appalled that T does not read the books she teaches. How can you possibly teach a book you haven’t read. She is not a teacher I would want on my staff or as my child’s teacher.

By Jeff

October 6, 2008 10:42 AM | Link to this

30yr:

Again, she could be reading them at work. As I’ve said before, I’ve NEVER seen her do ANYTHING work-related at home, which goes against my own teaching experience of working 12-14 hours at the school and STILL bringing stuff home, but evidently her kids like her, she gets no complaints, and she is even highly respected among other teachers and admin at her school.

She also knows her books better than I, even though I have read many of them - or at least know in general what they are about - so clearly she is getting the information SOMEHOW.

By shogun

October 6, 2008 11:00 AM | Link to this

When I was growing up in Japan, I was told that the Japanese system was modeled after the US system. However, when I came to the US 30 years ago, I was surprised to see nothing like what we had (and still have) in Japan.

Anyway, here is a bit radical proposal.

We should make HS grades 10 - 12, and the compulsory educatin ends at grade 9 (about age 15/16).

We should change HS’s to be more like colleges in that students must be admitted. The screening process will involve testing - and this can replace all those state mandated tests - but it can also include things like grades in MS and teacher recommendations.

There should be different kinds of HS - some may be academic focuse/college prep while others may be more vocationally oriented. There can be different types of vocational schools - some may focus more on agriculture while others may focus on commerce or manufacturing, etc. Still, everyone has to apply to a particular school they want to attend and be admitted.

We should also eliminate any non-academic extra-curricular activities at schools. They should become community-based activities - just like all those soccer, football, baseball, softball, etc. leagues we have out there today. Kids attending different HS may play on the same team from the region. Academic extra-curricular activities can go on at schools afterward. Music or art clubs are a bit on a gray area - I suppose they can be after-school programs at schools with specialist teachers supporting them.

What do you think?

By Sarah

October 6, 2008 12:04 PM | Link to this

Some of the high school communities now have a 9th grade section. These students barely see the rest of the hs students. I think this is a great idea.

By Sarah

October 6, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Some of the high school communities now have a 9th grade section. These students barely see the rest of the hs students. I think this is a great idea.

By jim d

October 6, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

just a thought here but is anyone familar with the school within a school concept?

By ironmaiden

October 6, 2008 7:28 PM | Link to this

After 25 yrs in high school, I’ve spent the last two at the middle school level. Like so many others, I see the absolute value of grades 10-12 for HS; 7-9 for middle. In one word, it will never happen - “ATHLETICS”.

By lovemy4kids

October 6, 2008 11:45 PM | Link to this

Have any of you teachers done a study on what happened to government schools during the Depression? Now, that might be a relevant topic! Here is a social studies current event that you might be wise to check out. The “reader comments” are very enlightening. http://blogs.wsj.com/deals/2008/10/06/meet-neel-kashkari-the-man-with-the-700-billion-wallet/

By jim d

October 7, 2008 10:33 AM | Link to this

Tony,

wow, I was just getting into what i’ll have to vote on next month and discovered just how badly y’all are coming after MORE MONEY

Hopefully voters will step into the booth armed with inormation needed to make the right choices. i know i’ll think long and hard before voting on this one.

Amendment 2 Shall the Constitution of Georgia be amended so as to authorize community redevelopment and authorize counties, municipalities, and local boards of education to use tax funds for redevelopment purposes and programs?