Get Schooled

By Lee

September 23, 2008 9:28 AM | Link to this

“At least teachers can call parents or rely on school administrators to help discipline students when they act out. What power do bus drivers have?”

The bus driver only has two options:

If administration doesn’t support the driver by dealing with student behavior, the driver should hand the keys to the principal and wish them luck hiring someone else.

But, IMHO, bad behavior is a learned trait and students learn it at an early age. When administration does not deal with behavior in the lower grades, it only escalates until you get to the point a 16 year old thinks they can manhandle a school employee without repercussions.

And sadly, they are often correct.

By LB

September 23, 2008 10:23 AM | Link to this

I agree with Lee. Many times administration chooses not to get involved. This makes the child think it’s ok to escalate his behavior until a situation snowballs. Suspending a driver is not the answer. Suspending the disruptive kids will get more action. Unfortunately, the action achieved, in most cases, are irate parents who think their little imp can do no wrong.

By Janine

September 23, 2008 11:23 AM | Link to this

Laura RE: who would want to drive a school bus? After every bus incident at my middle school,[and there were many] I always told my students that if they paid me $1,000,000 an hour, I would not willingly drive a school bus with middle or high school students on it. For those students there needs to be a driver AND an adult bus marshall on every bus.

By Ack

September 23, 2008 12:38 PM | Link to this

It’s funny how everyone still blames kids just because they’re kids. Teens and Gays, the only socially accepted targets for society’s intense desire to hate, demean, and deprive some minority. The driver had previous infractions and she’s a grown adult who made a very poor decision with minors in her care. What’s so hard to understand? I hope they do fire her.

That said, it seems like low pay is pay. Bus drivers are needed. Hmm. If you need money bad enough, where’s the problem? I’d rather drive a bus than work at McDonald’s. Every workplace has it’s stresses, how you deal with them is what matters.

By flipper

September 23, 2008 12:47 PM | Link to this

You know what bugs me… Most families I know walk to school around here, but on the way I see these fat kids sitting at the bus stop to catch a school bus for a ride that’s only a few blocks (less than a 1/2 mile). And… yes, nine times out of ten the kids sitting at these stops are f-a-t. In tough times like these why in the world are we paying for the gas and bus maintenance to drive fat kids a few blocks. It seems like it would do them a world of good to get off their lazy rears and get themselves to school. Plus it certainly wouldn’t hurt the environment.

The state should make it illegal for a bus to transport a normal child less than a mile.

By MBW

September 23, 2008 12:51 PM | Link to this

I was a teacher in APS, and I know for a fact that MAJOR discipline problems occurred on the buses.

Bus drivers should be given much more authority in their jobs…or at least be given discipline assistants to help them.

They are essentially held captive and forced to drive…even if the kids in the back are going crazy. Many times, their only options are to stop the vehicle or go back to the school.

By Tony

September 23, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

We have class size limits for teachers. We have playground and fieldtrip supervision ratio guidelines. Yet on the bus, we allow 70 (or more) children to be loaded into a vehicle with one adult to do the driving, supervision, discipline, and everything else. The drivers are some of the least paid staff of school systems yet have one of the biggest safety concerns to deal with.

Administrators who do not support bus drivers should also be fired.

By Joy in Teaching

September 23, 2008 3:39 PM | Link to this

Let’s see….

The problem: Pay someone minimum wage to SAFELY transport 60+ screaming kids to and from school BY THEMSELF with their BACK TO THE KIDS.

The solution: Riding a school bus should be a right, not a privelege. The only rights a child has on a school bus should be to get to their location safely and to breathe. That’s it. If they run their mouths, fight, or in any other way interfere with the saftey of other students on that bus, then they should be put off the bus for at least 30 days. If they continue to cause problems after that, then they should be put off permanently.

This isn’t rocket science: it’s a SCHOOL BUS. But the problems on school buses are merely extentions of problems in schools: the liberals who are afraid of hurting a child’s self esteem are in charge of setting policy.

By jim d

September 23, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

make everyone walk and if they live too far away for the hike i guess we could demand they move. after all that is a choice —-RIGHT???

By Teen

September 23, 2008 4:31 PM | Link to this

This is coming from a teenager that graduated last year. High school buses definately need the driver and at least one person in higher authority to monitor the bus during the routes. Before I started to drive, I’ve seen some insane actions on these buses… its pathetic.. Jumping out of emergency exits, screaming obscenities at the driver, jumping around like gorillas straight out of africa… it was pathetic.

By TheBlogger

September 23, 2008 4:35 PM | Link to this

I agree that the solution to poorly behaved kids on a school bus is “expelling” them from the bus for a period of time. Let their parents transport them and pay for the gas for a while….. maybe, just maybe, the parents will then begin to care a little bit and start to teach their children the proper way to behave.

However, even that solution doesn’t help the bus driver stuck on a route with an incident happening at that time. Exactly what should the driver do? It seems that there are limited options here:

I kind of like the second option. Put the driver in some enclosed case while driving and let those crazy kids kill each other. Ya think that then the parents would give a darn????

Someone said in a post that the bus is an extension of the school issues. I disagree. I think that the bus is an extension of the home issues.

I would rather starve than be a bus driver.

By jim d

September 23, 2008 4:38 PM | Link to this

well we could arm the drivers. that might help.

By TheBlogger

September 23, 2008 4:41 PM | Link to this

Wow. Anyone notice a theme here?

Kids mess up in school. It is the teacher’s fault.

Kids mess up on the bus. It is the bus driver’s fault.

When will we (society) realize that it is the kid’s fault? When will we then realize that the apple just doesn’t fall far from the tree and it all goes back to the parents and the home life?

There was an old country saying, “I ain’t rasin’ no fool.” No one says that anymore!!! I wonder why?

By Lissa

September 23, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

Flipper - who cares what size a child is? What does that have to do with bus discipline? A previous poster stated that teens and gays were the last groups ok to be targeted, but I’d add “fat kids” for people like you. You don’t know if that child has a disability or anything about their situation, so hush. That applies for adults too.

I’m not sure of the policies around here, but I do recall when I was younger that there was a minimum distance a child had to live for bus service. I’m not sure what that distance was (1 mile would be my guess).

I also distinctly remember when I stopped riding the school bus in Jr. High - and it was because of the unruly behavior of other students. The bus driver had to spend so much disciplining students (both on the bus and at the school) that we were often late to school.

I agree that having a second individual on the bus just to handle the students while the driver is driving is a wonderful idea. Give that person the authority to revoke bus privileges, as well as have a direct contact with the administration for detention, ISS, and suspension if need be. Treat the bus as an extension of the school.

By liza

September 23, 2008 5:15 PM | Link to this

In these days of budget cuts how can anyone even think of adding “bus marshalls?” I would approve the cost of video cameras for the purpose of getting rid of the students who lack self-control. There is no good reason for subjecting all students to the misery of riding home with those fools. Let them carpool with each other to get to and from school.

By jim d

September 23, 2008 5:19 PM | Link to this

What the F, why do we continue to force kids that don’t want to be in school to go? Eliminate theis crap and most of the bus issues would clear themselves.

By jim d

September 23, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

All we really need do is to stop trying to accomodate these little pr@#$%.

education should not be looked at as a right but more so as a liberty. Until we as a nation get that kind of mindset things will only get worse.

By jim d

September 23, 2008 5:30 PM | Link to this

Now in all fairness—in defense of some of these kids. They have been locked up for 6-7 hours, forced to set at an uncomfortable desk, listen to the mantra, and their drugs may have started wearing off by the time for the bus ride home or they may not have yet kicked in on the morning ride. So is it little surprise they act out on the bus?

By catlady

September 23, 2008 5:35 PM | Link to this

Our system installed cameras on every bus. It does not help DURING the problem, but it sure is fun to show the “my child did no wrong” parents what their child actually did do! We’ve had a few who claimed the driver was against their kid; when they saw the video they claimed it was “doctored!” Talk about living in Denial, Georgia!

During a serious problem, the driver must pull over and call the authorities, and MUST BE BACKED UP. I have the impression that my system does that pretty well, and has seen a big decrease in bus problems. However, bus drivers MUSt report and document!

One thing that seems to be a problem in my area is that drivers want to blame problems on the Hispanic kids. The cameras have helped sort that out as well.

By RF

September 23, 2008 5:43 PM | Link to this

As a teacher of twenty years, let me just tell you that there is no way, no matter how broke I was, that I would drive a school bus. You have no way to isolate problems, you have little control as you’re driving, and kids contained in that small a space are going to get rowdy.

I’m not sure I condone the bus driver passing stops to pull over in a shopping center, but I can’t say for sure since I wasn’t there. I’ve seen drivers return to the school when behavior got out of control, which usually helps. I’ve also seen schools pay teachers and administrators to ride difficult buses as referee and witnesses. Radioing for help only means you have to wait with the little hellians until help arrives, if ever. Cameras on buses are losing their effectiveness. Kids don’t care who sees them until their parent(s) are brought in to see the video. I think in this case if the parents were asked to view the actual bus video, they might have a different opinion.

Jim- this is yet another reason why vouchers and privatization of education will eventually be the norm. Sounds good until you realize that it will only further the segregation of the “have nots” who, in the long run, benefit from a heterogeneous mixture of kids and lifestyles. We can’t get through to the percentage we do unless we have the good kids around to offer as examples. It’s a tough balance to maintain, but as a teacher of struggling readers who are often from poor, dysfunctional homes, I can truthfully say that they would be worse off if all they saw were kids like themselves. We need the balance, even when some choose to just be bad. Many are convinced, by example, of what they need to do and how they need to act by being around peers from better situations.

Bus incidents like this are almost non-existent when you compare the number to the total number of buses on the road every day. The driver, in frustration, made a bad decision. She should find another line of work— she obviously isn’t cut out for this work. Only the strong can survive this thankless job!

By Dr. Craig Spinks/Augusta

September 23, 2008 6:50 PM | Link to this

Not only do school bus drivers need more power in disciplining their juvenile riders, but each also needs a bus monitor with similar powers as well as school-level administrators with the guts to enforce their system’s code of student conduct.

By verdi73

September 23, 2008 7:48 PM | Link to this

I help with bus discipline during my planning at a middle school. There are some parents out there who think that their child does no wrong, or the bus driver is out to get them(and yes, there are some drivers who bait the kids into something stupid ;that is why we pull tapes randomly sometimes to see exactly what is going on). The cool thing on the newer buses is that the video tape is actually a hard drive with multiple camera angles, and can store information for a month. We can now do slow-mo, zoom in, and print pictures of the infraction. It is my personal experience, at least at my school, that the parents are very supportive when we call about bus discipline, and we always invite them to come view the video.

By Janine

September 23, 2008 8:24 PM | Link to this

AT THE END OF THE DAY…[ which this is,] again I say, after 32 years of teaching school….and Iloved almost all of those years…… $1,000,0000 per hour would not be enough to make me drive a school bus for middle or high school studetns. The sacrifice of my sanity,my health, etc. is simply not worth it. A video camera is not enough. There must be BUS MARSHALLs with authority to supervise students. A bus driver must keep the eyes on driving ….and it is not SAFE to have the bus driver responsible for the behavior of the bus riders. Why is it that the school boards and county level administrators cannot see this….when they are so absolutely ADAMANT that a teacher will NEVER leave her classroom unattended. Yet a bus driver who MUST keep eyes on the road is expected to handle 30-40 kids on the bus!!!!! RIDICULOUS!!!!!

By fer

September 23, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

For over 20 years, I have said that every school bus should have an adult monitor on it. Of course we can’t afford it. But we really can’t afford not to do it. I taught school for 30 years, and there’s NO WAY I would have put 25-60 kids behind me and then attempted to drive down a busy road!

By Divine

September 23, 2008 11:00 PM | Link to this

I am a school bus driver and have been for the last 18 years. I agree that the pay can be low but it also has its perks. I use my down time to volunteer at my kids schools or make appointments. I have had situations where the police had to come to gain control over a situation that I could not get control over. My first route as a bus driver, I had to defend myself against a male student. This child kept telling me daily that he was going to kick my butt and the one day that he decided to take action, I was caught off-guard. I was injured in the incident as was the child who had to be handcuffed to keep him away from me. This young man is serving time in prison for the murder of his girlfriend and unborn child. I am thankful that the school officials at this particular high school had my back. They had suspended this child from the bus for months at a time, even held meetings with the parent(single father) to which none of this worked. When I was struck by this student, the principal was my witness and stated in court that although I was only 6 years older than my students they still needed to respect me.

For the parents whom will promise themselves that their “angels” did nothing wrong, think again. There are problems on the bus that the school will address and most times in the school system that I drive for will contact the parent and set-up an immediate meeting to discuss the behavior of the child.

By flipper

September 23, 2008 11:01 PM | Link to this

Lissa, according to the Institute of Medicine, in the last 30 years obesity rates have tripled among children between the ages of six and 11. Have all those kids developed a disability? Heck no! Is it their fault that they are fat? Probably not. They are fat because their parents let them eat trash all day and then sit around in front of an X-Box or a TV for hours on end. These same parents allow these kids to actually catch a bus to get to a school a few blocks away.

If you read my post, you would see that I was referring to “normal” kids - not kids with disabilities. Normal, otherwise healthy kids need to be walking or biking to school - particularly if they are less than a mile away.

By mamaj

September 24, 2008 12:58 AM | Link to this

I am all for stricter measures when it comes to discipline on the school buses, but walking for kids,(even some high-schoolers), is just too dangerous. My god-daughter would have to walk a mile and a half past more than a few seedy characters and abandoned houses and that is not okay. I believe if the principals and supervisors would back up the bus drivers and make it known to unruly students on the buses what discipline would be taken for bad behavior, AND STICK TO IT, things will change. High school kids don’t believe anything will happen to them until it actually happens, but they need people with true backbone to make them see thelight

By Drive my bus

September 24, 2008 5:50 AM | Link to this

I was a bus driver. The kids will get all Lord of the Flies on you real fast, especially if you let them, like I done. We were pulling out of middle school one cold december afternoon, just before the xmas break. I noticed a wad of paper flying between the seats in my rear view. Then another. We weren’t even out of the parking lot when the air was filled with paper wads. Then the errant shot of M+Ms would hit my windshield hard, just missing my head by inches. I got on the PA and said, “Can we not throw anything hard like candy? Thank you, have a nice day. And please wait till we get out of the parking lot, the principle is standing right there, geniuses.”

Well, if I thought it was pandemonium before we got off school property, you should have seen it later. It looked like the panic scene in the movie “Airplane”. Every single student was going all out in a free for all throwing spit wads, paper wads, and heaven knows what else.

Then, this cop gets on my tail. “COP ALERT!” I screamed in the mic. The students all turned around at once and ran to the back of the bus to look. I guess this made the cop curious so he signals his lights to make me pull over.

Well, I aint going back to driver training reform school, see? I floored the pedal and made a hard left then a hard right and then I layed tracks across a church playground, where some preschoolers were minding their own business. You should have seen them scatter as I barreled across the jungle gym. The cop was tight on my tail so I had some of the student throw one or two of those “teach me how to be a mommy” babies out the rear emergency exit. This totally fooled the copper and he slammed on his brakes, not wanting to squash the teeny tiny widdle baybees. What a fall guy.

We got clean away. Well, things settled down after that. The kids went to xmas vacation, and I got this amazing memory of how the bus totally looked like the aftermath of the Battle of Shiloh.

Merry Christmas.

By bearcasey

September 24, 2008 7:35 AM | Link to this

During my four years as an administrator at Chattahoochee high school I dealt constantly with bus misbehavior. I drove a bus constantly duuring my coaching years. It is a difficult job. There is NO WAY that a driver can maintain diiscipline AND drive safely. That is why I never allowed my son to ride the bus.

My wisdom was confirmed last year after I retired. I was driving my son home from school when a school bus passed me on the left. One of the little cretins threw a ceramic mug from the bus and hit my car. Luckily, the mug only hit my headlight and caused $600 damage. Since my car is a convertible, the mug could have hit me or my son. The Fulton County school system dodged a lawsuit by the sheerest of chance.

By Ted Striker

September 24, 2008 7:49 AM | Link to this

I say put the kids who misbehave on a bus and send em over Northside Drive.

By HB

September 24, 2008 12:15 PM | Link to this

I would never want to be a bus driver, and I would never allow my child to ride a bus that did not have adult supervision besides the driver. That is a dangerous practice that has gone on for far too many years. It’s simply unreasonable to expect one person to both drive and maintain basic on-board safety by keeping dozens of kids in their seats and well-behaved toward each other.

By Meme

September 25, 2008 7:07 AM | Link to this

Thanks, Jim d. I said last year that we should do away with the compulsory laws about school and was promptly told what an uncaring b… I was. I think that a lot of the problems with school would be solved if we allowed student to attend school and didn’t force them.

By Sylvia

November 5, 2008 3:15 PM | Link to this

Do NOT DRIVE A SCHOOL BUS IF YOU CANNOT RELATE OR HAVE PATIENTS FOR CHILDREN. HAVE OPEN COMMUNICATION WITH PARENTS, MAYBE THERE IS SOMETHING YOU NEED TO KNOW THAT CAN BETTER YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE BEHAVIOUR…THEY MAY GET A BAD VIBE FROM YOU!!

By catlady

November 5, 2008 7:52 PM | Link to this

Sylvia: here is what needs to be understood: riding the bus is a service you are not guaranteed. You sit down, you shut up. No behavior needs to be “understood” beyond that. Bus drivers need to be absolutely dependable on enforcing bus safety rules. No exceptions, no need to find out things that better understand the behavior. Sit down, stay in your seat, hands/mouth to yourself, speak quietly. Show up on time the next morning.

By marisa

November 15, 2008 10:19 PM | Link to this

hi i too am a bus driver and i have issued maybe 7 slips on one kid and the principal only kicked him off twice. it is not our job to communicate with the parents trust me they just blame the bus driver “why didn’t you do something before and when did this all start?” like they don’t know there kid is bad ya sure!! when they missbehave like that the put other students and the bus driver’s life in danger!! the pricipal or v.p. needs to work with the bus driver you see if there are no concequences then the child doesn’t care they continue to missbehave cus they got away with it!! wonder what the principal will say if there ever was a car accident resulting from driver distraction. no wonder no one wants to drive a school bus!!!!!