Get Schooled

By momtoAlex&Max

September 17, 2008 8:51 AM | Link to this

Because they are afraid of the repercussions(sp?). I think they would be a lot of people that would scream separation of church and state and take issue with a religious course being paid for with taxpayer’s money.

I, on the other hand, would love for my kids to take it. Since it probably won’t happen, my children attend sunday school.

By Jeff

September 17, 2008 9:07 AM | Link to this

OK, I took a ScripLit class at KSU. The way I understand it, these classes wouldn’t be much different.

And that ScripLit class was extremely ANTAGONISTIC towards anyone with traditional Judeo-Christian beliefs.

Indeed, that class was more of a crash-course in Christian Apologetics (on my own time) than actually learning anything about the literature aspects of the Bible.

By Mike K.

September 17, 2008 9:13 AM | Link to this

Because they’d hear it from 2 sides. One side is, as momtoAlex mentioned, the folks who want to keep church and state separate. The other side is those parents who couldn’t get over the fact that the Bible wouldn’t have been taught “their way.”

By bearcasey

September 17, 2008 9:24 AM | Link to this

I took a “Philosophy of the Old Testament” course in college back in 1971. One of the most thought provoking courses ever. I’m not sure that high school students are ready for it. I taught high school world history for thirty years and taught ABOUT religion’s influence on cultures. That is what needs to be done.

Of course I taught about Hindu, Buddhism, Islam, Taoism and Judeaism as well as Christianity. Equal time for all.

By mmmm

September 17, 2008 9:27 AM | Link to this

What about not having a qualified teacher to teach it? What will make someone qualified to teach such a class?

Another possibility is that maybe the Bible as a literature is not a “big” enough topic to make it a 1-year, or even 1 semester, course.

By Tony

September 17, 2008 11:19 AM | Link to this

I don’t think there will be much demand for the course because students have very little room for elective courses in their high school plans. They must take 4 English, 4 math, 4 science, 3 social studies, etc. In my opinion, it is a course best left at the college level because of the diverging views of so many parents.

I personally do not want a state employee teaching religion in any form to my children or the students in my school.

By Leia

September 17, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

I took a Bible As Literature course in high school in the 70s. I absolutely loved it! It was taught purely from a literary standpoint, and my class included students from all faiths, and nobody got offended! It can be done well, if the right person teaches it.

By jim d

September 17, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion…”

Basically, government may not promote one religion or faith group over any other, promote a religiously based life over a secularly based life, or vice versa. (this is how the courts have interpreted this clause that we are all so familiar with and that creates much heated discussion.

Being an elective, based upon the above comment, I really see no harm in it provided it can be taught (and I’m not sure it can) without referencing the God of Abraham as being the supreme being.

That being said, I feel that anyone knowledgeable enough to teach such a class would most certainly be a believer and as such would have a great deal of difficulty keeping their personal beliefs out of the classroom. That person being a government employee is where one rub would come.

Let me just say that as a Christian I’m not certain I would want even the most devout person teaching the subject since there are so many different ways to interpret the text. I feel that this is best taught at the church of choice and / or at home.

I think we need to keep in mind that the first amendment also protects students’ freedom of religious speech. students are free to take their bibles onboard busses, to pray in the hallways, to say grace before eating, to pray silently in the classroom, to organize bible clubs as long as other clubs are allowed in the school. They can organize prayer meetings outside the school building (still on school property) and even engage in spontaneous student-led prayer at sporting events.

The bottom line is that prayer has always been in schools and will remain there as long as teachers are allowed to spring pop quizzes.

By Janine

September 17, 2008 11:26 AM | Link to this

Bearcasey I,too, think college is soon enough for classroom instruction about the Bible. One learns about one’s own religion in church, Sunday school, and at home.

Heck, I grew up in a small town and didn’t even realize there were other organized religions besides Christianity. I knew the Bible backwards and forwards and could recite numerous passages from memory.

While in college I took a course called World Relgions, which opened my eyes and, for me, turned out to be one of the most objectively taught, informative, and life changing classes I had…including grad school

By Leia

September 17, 2008 11:31 AM | Link to this

Tony - several of the Sunday school teachers at my church are “state employees”! Does that make them unqualified, or is it just that you don’t want them to teach anything regarding the Bible in a public school setting?

By jim d

September 17, 2008 11:32 AM | Link to this

Tony,

School systems are not allowing for an additional teacher either are they?

Why would any administrator be willing to give up an academic teacher for this course?

By jim d

September 17, 2008 12:05 PM | Link to this

Point and case;

there are so many different ways to interpret the text.

1 timothy 2:12 (see what i mean?)

By HB

September 17, 2008 2:09 PM | Link to this

I do think it’s possible to teach an objective course on the Bible from a literary/historic standpoint, but I think it’s difficult and wouldn’t work out well in practice in most cases. I also think the state made a mistake in requiring the creation of two separate courses, rather than allowing enough flexibilty for one semester course that hits the high points, but that’s what happens when legislators start designing courses without having any idea what would actually be taught (straight reading of stories? debating philosphies? theories about the work itself such as who wrote what when? all of the above?).

Personally, I think certain parts of the Bible should be taught to students in English class, in the same manner that Greek and Roman mythology is taught. Why do we teach mythology? Because it’s an excellent example of ancient literature and the stories taught are those often alluded to in modern-day works. Isn’t the same true of the Bible? In order to understand English literature, shouldn’t students be exposed to those Biblical stories most often alluded to in fiction? A good foundation of knowledge is essential to understanding Western literature. The Bible should not be presented as fact, but all students, regardless of their own beliefs, should be familiar with such stories the Garden of Eden, the Exodus, the Resurrection, David and Goliath, etc. It’s ridiculous that a child could in theory leave high school knowing the story of Romulus and Remus, but not Adam and Eve.

By Tony

September 17, 2008 2:27 PM | Link to this

Leia-To clarify my point, state employees acting on behalf of the state (school is part of the state) should not teach religion. jim d has provided an excellent explanation with which I agree completely. (Someone mark that down, please.)

I do not believe there is a conflict in your Sunday School class. That is a place where people come to share together in their beliefs. The school is different because under the constitution the state is not allowed to endorse a particular religious view over another. This would prevent the teacher from offering interpretations of religious implications from the literature of the Bible. This is why I object.

jim d - funding for teachers comes from how many students are enrolled in each class. So, no, there is no additional funding to hire a teacher for the Bible class. Depending on the resources available, many schools would be hard pressed to pull an English teacher or history teacher from a required course to teach an elective course.

By Janine

September 17, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

HB…..When you say.“The Bible should not be presented as fact,”…Ah! but there’s the rub!!!! In GA, and many other states teaching the Bible as we do Greek mythology would be tantamount to treason! A conflict in the schools.. the likes of which we have not seen …would upend all other issues that are now discussed. .

By mamood

September 17, 2008 3:52 PM | Link to this

The only real “good book” is the Quran. It should be required reading for everyone. All other so called good books are for the infidels.

By bb

September 17, 2008 4:01 PM | Link to this

HB I completely agree with you. From a literary standpoint, someone who is NOT well versed in the Bible will never be able full appreciate Shakespeare, Milton, Dante, and many pop culture allusions. The stories of the Old Testament and the parables of Jesus are critical to any child who might get a degree in English, journalism, or arts and media. For the parents who are scared of the reprocussions, are you teaching your children the Bible? I know so many “Christians” who think “Eat Drink and Be Merry” is from Shakespeare or Dave Matthews. Maybe it would be better for it to start than in college- where they cannot come home and ask for guidance. PS The best teacher who taught me the most about my faith was an atheist.

By bab

September 17, 2008 4:13 PM | Link to this

Yes- I wish I could have had an Old Testament class and world religion taught in high school so some of my redneck brethren who profess to be so faithful might open their minds and hearts to God and other cultures.

Some of ya’ll getting all riled up probably watch Joel Osteen who rarely uses scripture but insteads preaches prosperity and fuzzy wuzzies.

Get over it- the more knowledge, the better. Historical and archaelogical supplements should be added and then your child ends up knowing more about God’s word and its context than you so you can’t “lord” it over them for control. Is that what is bothering you out there? Or that maybe the God you believe and push on people is not the actual one portrayed in the Bible. So scary isn’t it? Try actually reading it all the way through like you did The Davinci Code. You may be suprised that the American Protestant portrayal of Extreme Friendly High Fiving God and Jesus are completely erroneous.

By mamood

September 17, 2008 4:24 PM | Link to this

The only book that should be taught period is the Quaran. Nothing else is more important.

By Falcon Fan

September 17, 2008 4:51 PM | Link to this

I think Giada has the hottest rack on TV. I wish she would pose nude for a magazine.

By Bob Daniels

September 17, 2008 5:01 PM | Link to this

I think Giada is hot also, but Sandra Lee has the best rack on the Food Network. I wish the camera wood focus a little more on both of their backsides.

By Thinking

September 17, 2008 5:08 PM | Link to this

I have taken many classes on NT and OT. As long as the instructors can teach it as literature to create some understanding of the Bible’s history and add some textual criticism, that would be great and beneficial.

It should not have a slant toward any theological bend. A person can go to church for that side of the story which is where it belongs.

By catlady

September 17, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

Our high school has an “off campus” section right on the school grounds (don’t know how it can be off campus unless just the square footage of the building was cut out o f the school tract) where students can “elect” to take religion/ethics courses taught by “teachers” (don’t know how they get around certification, either). It has been sponsored by the churches in the county for at least 15 years or more. I think it is a travesty to have this and would never have allowed my children to take these courses nor would I ever, ever financially support it. I think a number of other counties have one of these “Christian Learning Centers” also.

I found taking a religion course in college very eye-opening, but it was a survey and not a means to win converts from impressionable teenagers.

By John

September 17, 2008 5:14 PM | Link to this

Have you seen Ingrid Hoffman on Simply Delicioso? She has them both topped. Plus whe she say Tongs it comes out as Thongs. I would like to put a baby in her.

By HB

September 17, 2008 5:20 PM | Link to this

Catlady, I think a school system in Virginia has something similar to what you’re describing. It was mentioned on washingtonpost.com last year. Elementary school kids leave school during school hours to take “elective” religious classes at a church next door. It’s a long tradition and so many participate that teachers are often left with only 2 or 3 children in the classroom for secular “enrichment” activities during that hour. It never dawned on me that such a thing could still exist!

By Troglodyke

September 17, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

As a strict church-state separationist, I am not in favor of the bible being taught anywhere but church, home, or private events, or as a college course.

I just think this law opens the door to more back-door wranglings from the Religious Right, and it places a huge burden on schools and teachers. The RR is foaming at the mouth to get their bogus creationist ideas taught as science. They don’t need any help getting that crap taught in schools, and this “foot-in-the-door” law could be a huge help for them.

The only teacher I would feel would be qualified to teach the bible as a literary text to schoolchildren would be an atheist.

But the law passed. I agree that a knowledge of the bible text is valuable to liberal arts. Why shouldn’t it be taught as any other work of fiction?

The only book that should be taught period is the Quaran. Nothing else is more important.

hey, mamood. Apparently your attempt to pi$$ off the folks on the board with these bogus Islam postings didn’t work. Maybe you could post that one more time, and spell it “Koran” just for the heck of it. Maybe that will have the effect you want.

By Peter

September 17, 2008 5:22 PM | Link to this

My priest said the best way to learn the bible was in one on one sessions while in the nude. We would start and finish each lesson with a healing massage. It took me about 6 years of weekly session to learn it all.

By catlady

September 17, 2008 5:53 PM | Link to this

HB, i am aware of several counties which have these for their high schools. Like I say (as a Christian) I question their legality, but they must have found some sort of clause that allows it because it is voluntary. I think if someone really checked on it, in the counties I know, it could be questioned how “independent” and “off campus” it really is, and why not open an elective program in something else? Would that get the same okay? The same tacit support?

By Dr. Craig Spinks/Augusta

September 17, 2008 11:47 PM | Link to this

Why haven’t more school districts signed up to offer courses on The Good Book? Why haven’t more school districts cracked down on chronically disruptive students? on bullies? on incompetent and/or indolent teachers and administrators? Could it be that our state’s unsatisfactory PubEd status quo is the product of a governmental educrat -private contractor alliance which guarantees central office higher-ups, school board attorneys and favored contractors passage on a voyage to wealth and power whether or they contribute to the betterment of kids’ educational opportunities?

By jim d

September 18, 2008 6:55 AM | Link to this

Here’s where another rub comes to me.

back in 2006 when the legislation allowing this was introduced in Georgia many of these lessons were already being taught in English and social studies classes.

In Georgia, students were already learning the role religion played in historic events, such as the settlement of American colonies, and key facts about the translation of the Bible.

As early as seventh grade, students were learning about the origins of Judaism, Christianity and Islam in the Middle East, as well as the division between Sunni and Shia Muslims. In high school, they read world literature textbooks that included selected works from the Torah, Bible and Quran.

Some school systems like Gwinnett allow students to earn academic credit by attending religious classes, some held at local churches, for part of the day. (to me this one definetly violates the principles of separation regardless of where classes are held) IMHO, issuing state required credits for graduation for these classes, being taught by someone other than a certified teacher and without oversight of the school system for content, crosses the line. But again that is JMHO.

By TheBlogger

September 18, 2008 7:59 AM | Link to this

Dr. Craig Spinks Why didn’t you also include cracking down on parents of truent kids?

Your post implys that everything is the responsibility of and the fault of schools. The major influence isn’t schools (public or otherwise) but rather the home and parents.

As a teacher, give me a well behaved student that knows the value of an education any day over a smart kid that cannot behave and doesn’t care to learn.

By mmmm

September 18, 2008 4:44 PM | Link to this

As a teacher, give me a well behaved student that knows the value of an education any day over a smart kid that cannot behave and doesn’t care to learn.

Yeah, you just want kids who can be taught by anyone. Give those kids just videotaped lessons, and we can save a bunch of money.

By Hmm

September 23, 2008 11:25 AM | Link to this

Probably not enough demand.

Before BibleLit, I’d like to see the foreign language programs expanded to offer more Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc. Latin should be a required offering in every school. Also, we need better financial ed in school. And, many schools are in desperate need for basic to moderate level computer/tech instruction. There are so many needs in the area of Electives in GA, it’s ridiculous. Unless this course is highly requested, I don’t see it being rolled out that widely.