Get Schooled

By Old School

September 12, 2008 1:50 PM | Link to this

RIGHT ON! Oh…wait a minute! I saw the “Off With Their Heads” and thought we were going to blog about bringing capital punishment to our schools to deal once and for all with the hardcore discipline problems. While a few public executions during the lunch breaks might actually deter other offenders and drastically improve the overall security on campus…

…I guess it isn’t actually what this blog is about.

My bad.

By zoe

September 12, 2008 2:07 PM | Link to this

I looked at the article you linked to, but I read a different verison that mentioned 1 in 5 boards (20%) in Georgia have had major issues over the past 5 or 10 years. This article is much shorter than the one I read yesterday.

By V for Vendetta

September 12, 2008 2:23 PM | Link to this

I’ve got to keep this brief, but here’s a few talking points:

By TheBlogger

September 12, 2008 3:51 PM | Link to this

IMHO, every BOE should be required to have one classroom teacher in it.

Too often, BOE are out of touch with the classroom experience and make major decisions without understanding the impact on the students in the classroom. A current classroom teacher in the BOE would bring the reality back to the decision making process.

By lyncoln

September 12, 2008 4:26 PM | Link to this

I don’t think I agree with the article.

Many of the recommendations are made based on the idea that the state government should have more direct involvement with local school boards. As if most local school boards do not function well and fail at providing the needed leadership for the local school district.

I guess if you believe that the state should have direct control of all schools and school boards within the state, many of the recommendations are good ideas.

I don’t see how ‘school board members should not be paid’ is a good concept. Either it is a government job that requires a time commitment (of some amount) from the members of the board or it isn’t. I’m not familiar with any other board positions within the government that don’t involve pay of some sort. And goodness only knows the trouble we can get into about the ‘only reimbursments’ issue based on the travel, cell phones, internet, computers, office supplies, and other required things like manicures and spa visits that a school board member needs (tongue in cheek).

Stricter qualifications, but not school teachers… means what? CEO or other business experience? Related to someone in the GA state government? And if it’s an elected position, why would it be the only one requiring a background check and drug screening? Better implement that for all elected positions regardless of level of government.

Legislating the size of the local school board to a specific number of members removes the power of self governance from the local district. If you believe that you need 101 people on your school board, then you should be allowed to elect and pay them. I’m sure there are some bloated school boards, but many of them are likely not too large.

Oooh, training and orientation by the state school board… to make sure that all of the local districts are more likely to completely agree and implement any policies from the state without argument. Sorry, it just seems stupid.

By jim d

September 12, 2008 4:45 PM | Link to this

V,

“some actual classroom teachers on BOEs would be pretty dang refreshing!”

we have one in Gwinnett I’d gladly send you.

By jim d

September 12, 2008 5:10 PM | Link to this

non-paid BOE members?

Now there’s one for the ages.

Personally I feel if we paid them MORE we might actually get more qualified candidates running for the position.

By Lee

September 12, 2008 5:56 PM | Link to this

Am I missing something here? Current state law already stipulates that current employees, which includes teachers, cannot serve on the school board. Also provides for nonpartisan elections.

A lot of the other recommendations are quite absurd. Drug tests for part time elected officials. Right…

Actually, I think the Romans had it correct. “The Roman historican Tacitus tells about the Germanic peoples, that they always drank wine while holding councils, as they thought nobody can deceive effectively when drunken.” Hence, the phrase:

In vino veritas (In wine, [there is] truth)

Anyway, see below for a sample of current Ga law regarding education:

“§ 20-2-51. Election of county board members; persons ineligible to be members or superintendent; ineligibility for local boards of education; ineligibility for other elective offices.” This section stipulates that current employees of the local board are ineligible to serve on the board. Makes sense to me.

“§ 20-2-56. Nonpartisan elections for members of boards of education…”

By catlady

September 12, 2008 6:57 PM | Link to this

The state of Georgia, the state DOE, does not have a CLUE how to run a system. They can run to lunch, run to meetings, run to conferences…….

By jim d

September 13, 2008 6:03 AM | Link to this

“state business leaders” huh?

By Jeff

September 13, 2008 6:19 AM | Link to this

The further removed from the people the government is, the more prone to abuse it is.

Look at Atlanta’s tyranny over GA.

Look at DC’s tyranny over this nation.

Go back 230 or so years and look at London’s tyranny over North America.

Quite simply, the further a government is from its people, the SMALLER it needs to be.

If a local town wants huge government that controls their lives from the cradle to the grave- and the taxes that government requires, I would not live in that town but I support their right to have it.

But just because one town - or even a majority of towns - want that does not mean it should be the law for ALL towns.

By liza

September 13, 2008 8:05 AM | Link to this

Did anyone see the AJC editorials today? Solutions for staffing schools with quality teachers and NEITHER ONE had the slightest mention of student behavior. Wake up America; this is the number one reason teachers leave the classroom! Maureen, WHY do you fail to address this?

By AJ in Hall

September 13, 2008 7:27 PM | Link to this

I’ve posted this before :

It is funny - accountability for schools is all the rage and talk and jargon in this country but there is next to no accountability for local school boards. Yes they are elected, but once in there is no oversight. Teachers and parents have no way to rate or evaluate boards or superintendents. Both groups fear reprisals (rightly so - just look at Hall County) if they speak out. You can’t file complaints of grievances except in front of the board of education. The PSC has no teeth and won’t look at anything without a name attached - which usually just serves to get the complainer fired or forced out. It is a mess!

You want to improve schools and increase accountability to do so you will have to start with the local boards and the central offices. Everything flows downhill form there.

This all said I don’t know that the State BOE needs to be the ones regulating it, that just seems to be incompetence regulating corruption.

Something has to be done though. One of our lovely Central Office mavens (who left the State DOE after 27 years to bless us with her lack of competency up here) was quoted in the local paper up her as saying Clayton was the only bad one and the rest of the BOEs shouldn’t be punished for them.

I’m not sure what to make of that one -outright untruth or wishful thinking?

By Elise

September 13, 2008 7:54 PM | Link to this

I agree with AJ. Something needs to be done to make school boards accountable to the public they serve. Our county is in a big mess because our board members are beguiled with the super. Calls, letters, and emails go without response. I can’t remember a time when there was such a lack of trust.

By north GA TeACHER

September 13, 2008 9:55 PM | Link to this

Medical boards are staffed by doctors. Law boards by lawyers. Accounting boards are staffed by accountants. All these are respected professions overseen by- gasp- actual professionals in those fields who can make judgements based on their own experiences. Is it any wonder that schools are in trouble? It is unconscionable that, in this country, school boards usually do NOT have current or former teachers. School board members who are NOT teachers should get a dose of reality by spending 100 or more hours per year in the schools particularly middle and high schools, taking a good hard look at student behaviors in classrooms and hallways. It would also be a good idea to have school board members whose children attend those schools and so have a stake in quality education.

By Larry

September 14, 2008 4:52 AM | Link to this

Let’s see, we have unpaid board members who passed a drug test and achieved their seat through a non-partisan election – AND – the unelected state board, appointed by the Governor, can unilaterally decide to erase it all and take over a school system whenever the mood strikes them.

THIS is the result of 90 days of thinking?

If I ever said anything that dumb when I was drunk, I’d seriously consider hopping on the wagon. In Warsteiner veritas.

By jim d

September 14, 2008 7:08 AM | Link to this

Larry,

Old friend (very old)

While I agree this power should not be ceded to an appointed board, I think even you will agree that some type of controls need to be implemented to reduce the ever growing abuse of power we have witnessed over the past 10 years.

Oh, and BTW, I’m not too sure there is much truth in Warsteiner.

By Pi$$ on a DAWG

September 14, 2008 1:57 PM | Link to this

Blacks HANGED by whites knew who was LYNCHING them. It seems that voters and parents don’t realize that they LYNCHED themselves as they did or didn’t go the the VOTING BOOTH. Shut the F..Up, Swing in the Breeze YOU CREATED, and stay out of my TAX PAYING POCKET CLAYTON COUNTY.

By catlady

September 14, 2008 6:16 PM | Link to this

Until there is the political will, the effort in the community and especially parents, all the “takeover” in the world will not improve things in reality for the students of CC. At this point it does not exist. There are a few residents and business owners willing to work (heck, they even voted) but the majority of the folks apparently lack any inclination to take action in favor of the students. Witness the voting percentages. Witness the “vast numbers” (TIC) who have tried to attend meetings the last week. Whining and bellyaching and getting your picture on the news won’t cut it.

CC folks are not helpless. Don’t continue to treat them as infants that need an adult to take care of them. They allowed the wool to be pulled over their eyes. The past year should have taught them something. They claim to have world-class students—time to have world-class parents and community members and church leaders!

BTW,months ago in this forum I refuted the widely publicized claims (published in the AJC, etc) that loss of accreditation meant loss of preK. There were also lies about in state colleges not accepting these students (but they will accept home schooled students???) There were a lot of out and out lies put out about this issue, and the AJC did not bother to check into the claims, even when called to the attention of the editors. It is past high time that the AJC do more aggressive checking into claims like this, rather than just passively passing such junk on.

Time for CC to “man up” and take charge of its destiny, rather than waiting for someone else to do it. Do you want to turn your local tax money (is it close to 20 mils?) over to the state to decide what programs to put in place? You might not like their decisions!

Time, too, for the administrators to get the thugs out of the classrooms so the respectable students can get an education!

By bearcasey

September 15, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

Put Sonny in charge of school systems? He could not even pass the courses my son, Beau, is taking at Northview (Latin III, AP Lit, AP European history, AP calculus BC,). What a joke!

By Time for Change

September 15, 2008 6:06 PM | Link to this

Maureen Dowd wrote an editorial this morning on this topic, and made some valid points on the impact wrong motives of board members can have on students. http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/opinion/stories/2008/09/15/learninged.html

The former school board rep for my district very obviously saw the position as a stepping stone to other, bigger pools. (Do the initials LH mean anything to you Northview folks?) On the other hand, you have people - on the same board - who spent many years working on PTA boards and LSACs - who really seem to have the best interests of students overall at heart. (Don’t worry, I DON’T include KR in that list…)

As Maureen suggests, problems exist outside the metro area. Some school districts become de facto jobs programs, hiring family members and those with community connections. Also, the “in” teachers pile on the “experience” years in the less grueling positions while they burn out the younger teachers in the pits. (And the ever-popular “got to get them out of the classroom - or school - so let’s create a job for them” - often at the county office.)

There should definitely be higher standards for board members (and procedures for promptly removing them - from outside the system -when problems arise). If you have a highly uneducated populace voting in board members only slightly more intelligent, how high can you expect the dock to rise?

Story in point: Three school board members attend a convention. When it’s time to pay their hotel bill, they find that the system forgot to send a check and NONE of them has a check or (valid) credit card to pay the bill, so they have to get a PO faxed to the hotel from the county office. Gets even better. One of the board members is asked about the large number of phone calls he made at the hotel. He explains that he asked for them to be removed, but the hotel refused. He can’t understand why, *he brought his own phone from home and unplugged the hotel phone, so he can’t understand how they could charge him for phone calls from his own phone.” (Sadly, this was just a few years ago. Guess the board member’s educational zenith? A GED!)

Yes, we need higher expectations for those who set the standards!

BTW, bearcasey, I’m not a Sonny fan, but he had to take classes harder than those Beau’s taking. A vet degree is very difficult, so he’s not lacking in IQ.

By TheBlogger

September 16, 2008 8:09 AM | Link to this

Topic for this blog:

Too often, the topics here revolve around teachers that are not good for whatever reason. Sometimes, they are about students that are not good for whatever reason. What about the parents?

I had a parent the other day complain to me that my “expectations were too high”. All I was asking was for the students to study 15 minutes every night. This student, by the way, had already failed this class by another teacher. Yet, the parent was complaining about 15 minutes?

Whatever happened to parental support for the ‘right thing?’ Whatever happened to a parent that requires more from their child than a teacher?

Why are parents (some parents) fighting for their child to be lazy?

By jim d

September 16, 2008 11:27 AM | Link to this

Blogger,

Excellent point. And I’m as quilty as the next guy. Maybe instead of all the negativity, blogging about a minority, we could convince Ms. Diamond to do a blog on the good admintrators, teachers, students and parents that we all know make up the majority.

Whatta think? (Other than it would be a bit boring after about 15 minutes.)