Get Schooled

By almh

September 11, 2008 1:43 PM | Link to this

I’m currently looking at a theme schools for my son when he enters kindergarten next year. Unless I know an older child he could sit with on the bus I would drive him for the first couple of years.

I understand that if the money is not there that cuts have to be made. Items not directly related to education should be up for consideration.

By Jeff

September 11, 2008 1:46 PM | Link to this

One thing that can EASILY be done is to BAN bussing for students who live within 1.5 miles of the school they attend. (For example, a 2nd grader living 1 mile from the HS he is slated to attend later in life can still ride the bus to the ES 3 miles away that he currently attends.)

In conjunction with this, allow only a SINGLE bus stop per quarter mile - half mile would be even better, but I’ll allow quarter mile. This will not only shorten idle times for busses and allow traffic to flow smoother, it will also shorten bus routes overall, thereby saving even MORE diesel - and the large amount of money it currently costs!

Note that these proposals would likely save my local school system - county population somewhere around 30K - HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dollars at the MINIMUM, and we are a relatively SMALL system! (2 primary schools, 2 ES, 1 MS, 1 HS)

By catlady

September 11, 2008 1:52 PM | Link to this

It is usually the best and brightest who pay the price. Jillions of dollars for sp ed, jillions of dollars for those behind in their achievement. But the bright kids gotta thumb a ride?

By Up Hill Both Ways

September 11, 2008 2:01 PM | Link to this

Fewer stops are definitely a smart start. Who needs ‘front door pickup’? What a crock of sh—! Make them walk a quarter mile or so to a corner bus stop - maybe they wouldn’t all be so fat and they wouldn’t lug so much crap to school with them if they had to walk a little bit and carry it. Install bike racks at the school for those kids who want to ride their bikes. With the way we pamper school age kids, no wonder they’re all lazy brats or unemployed thugs when they grow up. Sheeesh!

By savin money

September 11, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Busing children who are going to other schools because their school failed AYP is a major money drain. They are driving kids all over the county to one particular school. If you want your child to go to the choice school, then drive them over. We have 5 school buses that drive in every nook and cranny of Walton county to get kids from one school, to bus them all the way across the county to another. The “choice” school has 1350 kids, while the “failing” school has 700. Where would you rather be? They failed because of one subgroup of about 10 kids, yet they’re a bad school. Whatever. (I think I went from buses to a NCLB rant, sorry.)

By yesiamworried

September 11, 2008 2:42 PM | Link to this

Let me tell you about my year in DeKalb County so far.

My high school age child has 32 students in his math class which was suppose to be gifted. Obviously it is not going to be labeled gifted anymore. The school had 62 gifted students that should have been split between 3 classes, but no, the system can afford the extra class, so they have choosen to drop the gifted label on the class. They can do this, they are allowed.

Our elementary bus is so crowded that it is now doing two loads (something that we were promised wouldn’t happen with 3 tier bussing) and we have nearly 15 percent more students than a few years ago, but 2 fewer busses.

But yet, the students who go to magnet schools get picked up at their driveway daily, shuttled to school, and then sit in classes that are protected from the current budget crisis.

If parents are committed, they can find a way.

By Allen

September 11, 2008 3:12 PM | Link to this

Re: “At what point are they going to run out of fat and hit bone?” There’s a lot more fat to trim in a school system with as many non-teacher employees as teachers. I’m not making that up, and a fair number of them are rather well-paid staff at DCBOE headquarters.

RE:”Items not directly related to education should be up for consideration.” Getting kids to school seems pretty related to education.

RE: “If parents are committed, they can find a way.” Not always. Consider the recent arrival immigrants and refugees at the International Community charter school. They often don’t have licenses, let alone cars. Without the bus how are their kids going to get to school? Or should they be shunted back into community schools that have no idea how to deal with them, hurting both the recent arrival kids and the kids in those schools already?

BTW, I’m surprised no one has noted that this is a step backward for clean air and traffic alleviation as well.

By Problem

September 11, 2008 3:25 PM | Link to this

This is merely a symptom of a more systemic problem which began years ago.

Neighborhood schools, elementary in particular, no longer serve the neighborhood population in which they are located. Kids used to be able to walk to their school, now they are bused. In addition, some neighborhood schools, again elementary in particular, are “specialized” schools, thus requiring busing of neighborhood students.

Why did this occur, and why does it continue???

By TBPickens

September 11, 2008 3:35 PM | Link to this

There must be some rich people out there giving grants to school systems to convert their busses to run on compressed natural gas, which is supposed to be 40% cheaper than gasoline - so maybe 50+% compared to diesel.

I guess 4 days a week schedule is another option.

When money runs out, they should just shut the school down - especially after the testing. I don’t see my kids doing much after the testing is done.

Let go some teachers and increase class size - particularly HS classes. College classes are often much larger. Get them used to that. Teachers? Oh well, if they don’t like it, they can find another job.

By DH

September 11, 2008 3:58 PM | Link to this

I’m from Dekalb County, when I was in high school, I walked to high school that included sports practices and walked back home and that was at least 1.5 miles and choice schools existed. First this starts at home, maybe if they do cutback, kids won’t be so spoiled, parents can help better and test scores might improve.

By DH

September 11, 2008 4:04 PM | Link to this

I’m from Dekalb County, when I was in high school, I walked to high school that included sports practices and walked back home and that was at least 1.5 miles and choice schools existed. First this starts at home, maybe if they do cutback, kids won’t be so spoiled, parents can help better and test scores might improve.

By Mike D

September 11, 2008 4:33 PM | Link to this

To the dolts that wrote walking to school was a good idea - creepy men offering free candy and puppies will desend on your kids like stink on sh*t.

By MrLiberty

September 11, 2008 4:47 PM | Link to this

I’ve already done the math a dozen times to show what an unbelievable subsidy every parent is already receiving just from the education portion of the school.

You all continue to support these monster schools that are nowhere near where you live so your kids can’t walk to them. Or, you are just too whiny to just force them to walk.

Why doesn’t every subdivision have a school? Why couldn’t there be a small school in every strip mall on every block? Why aren’t you homeschooling your children?

The free market would provide such superior service and quality you would wonder how you could ever have been so gullible to think that government could do a good job.

How many more failures of government are you going to need to see and experience yourself (while at the same time always being able to find food, clothes, gas, movies, etc. - you know, the free market stuff) before you wake up and demand an end to government involvement in something as important as education?

By Liha

September 11, 2008 5:09 PM | Link to this

Mike D, if you do a little internet research, only about 120 children are randomly abducted a year. Out of 53 million school-age children, that makes the probability of kidnapping pretty negligible. Now who’s the dolt? Or are you a creepy man who offers candy and puppies to children?

By Janine

September 11, 2008 5:23 PM | Link to this

Don’t know if we all will agree with this, but apparently the best schools,….at least elementary schools… as in those with a high percentage of achieving students ….are small neighborhood schools [even though I am not such a fan of “research”].

Back when Dekalb was the premier system in the state and was well thought of in the entire country, [hard to believe, I know, but it is true ]…all elementary schools were neighborhood schools. Busing was not an issue….most kids walked to school.

RE your question: At what point are they going to run out of fat and hit bone? Having been a teacher in Dekalb for over 30 years,I can say from experience..that… until they cut all county office personel..except the Superintendent and 1 or 2 assistants and a reasonable number of secretarial staff, they will not HIT BONE!!!! The 189 employess who will be offered the retirement package doesn’t even scratch the surface of the superfluous , useless numbers of consultants, etc. that populate the county office!!!!

By Mike D

September 11, 2008 5:29 PM | Link to this

Liha,

I only offer free candy and puppies to attractive women. You could be the lucky lady if I ever meet you.

Oh yeah - I think the families of the abducted children don’t feel its too negligible.

By jim d

September 11, 2008 5:36 PM | Link to this

Well said Cat,

seems everyone tends to forget the kids that could really excell, given the opportunity. Opting instead to USE THEM to help failing schools make AYP.

What a crock of S#*t

By aDRYANNA

September 11, 2008 6:27 PM | Link to this

Are you guys serious?

you really think dekalb should stop busing magnet and theme kids???? are u crazy?? the first reason i had to send my son to a school way out on peachtree industrial named chamblee is beacuse the school he is supposed to go to (redan high school)is FAILING do you understand that…. i send my son ALL THE WAY OUT THERE TO THE NICE SIDE OF TOWN SO HE CAN GET A DECENT education and get into a GOOD college. you people fail to realize how much stress this is putting on these kids. NOW they have to worry about finding a way to school. I can not come off my good job and take him to school and pick him up EVERYDAY!!! Somebody has to work and pay the bills. Do you all understand? All you who are talking this crap about stop the busing and they need to walk farther you take a walk to Chamblee Charter High School from your house and see if you like it ok…… and the bus my son rides picks up at every other mile for the man who said kids are fat you probaly are. Think about the kids. They are indeed our future.

By Chuck

September 11, 2008 6:45 PM | Link to this

May,just maybe IF the money spent on buying buses (and law suits) had been spent on improving the neighborhood school the need for the special schools mighty not exist. But this goes back to the early 70,s.

By Chuck

September 11, 2008 6:46 PM | Link to this

May,just maybe IF the money spent on buying buses (and law suits) had been spent on improving the neighborhood school the need for the special schools mighty not exist. But this goes back to the early 70,s.

By MrLiberty

September 11, 2008 7:18 PM | Link to this

The free market would provide the solution to your driving and commute needs. Why? Because you would actually be the customer, and businesses, not governments, cater to their customers. Imagine a school with the same after-school activities that you now have to drive them to. Imagine a school that simply provides supervision until you get there. Imagine a school that has their own bus but is close enought to your house that your child can walk anyway.

Imagine you stopped trying to fix the unfixable and start supporting something with a proven track record of success - the free market.

By free market?

September 11, 2008 8:15 PM | Link to this

If schools were “free market” enterprises would they also have the right to refuse service to those customers who are not good customers? Would I not have to pay property taxes that support government schools (and other taxes like SPLOSTS too)? If parents actually had to pay the true cost of educating their kids, how many would actually be able to afford it?

By MrLiberty

September 11, 2008 9:46 PM | Link to this

Of course I advocate a complete and total end to government run schools - so no more property taxes, SPLOSTs, etc. to support them. Would there need to be charity schools? You bet. Shriners, St. Jude and countless other outstanding hospitals now provide care without concern for ability to pay and their service is among the finest in the country. No reason whatsoever that the same could not be true in a free market.

Today we see private schools that cost incredible amounts of money primarily because they can and because they are attempting to be exclusive. They know that these parents have to pay both property taxes and their fees and they are fine with that. There are also private schools that are far less expensive, but you do not hear of them. Catholic schools receive subsidies from the church to keep their costs down and many others in a free market may receive assistance from businesses or other sources. To be competitive, most will try to keep costs low, once they know that they have many more potential customers and much more competition.

Would every child be allowed to attend every school? No. That would be up to the school. Everyone now complains about the disruptive kids in the schools and you want them out of YOUR kid’s class, but say they can’t get into any school they want and suddenly you become righteous the other way. Make up your damn mind! And exactly when did it become un-american to make both parents and students have to be responsible for their actions (or crappy parenting as the case might be)? Public schools practically encourage the irresponsiblity.

It is a private business and they have the right to set admission requirements and maintain behavior and performance standards. Big and tall men and women may complain that the mainstream stores do not carry product to fit their needs, but the market has provided alternatives that cater to their requirements. The same would be true of schools.

Some might even advertise themselves as the “solution” to your problem child. Why not? There is money to be made and customers to satisfy.

Most importantly, the school and the parent would finally have the kind of relationship that is desperately needed - customer and seller. Your money, your decision. You walk, you take your money with you.

An infinitely better way to handle education than a third party payer system like we have today, where all your neighbors are paying for your kid’s education and a bunch of bureaucrats decide how your child will be treated and mis-educated, confident in the knowledge that the state will always be willing to steal from the populace to make sure they get their money no matter how crappy a job they do.

What free market business could ever say that?

By JohnLennon

September 11, 2008 10:06 PM | Link to this

Imagine…

Keep imagining…

By Lashaun

September 11, 2008 10:22 PM | Link to this

Adyranna, perhaps if you worked with your son and Redan High School, it would not be failing. If the school were not failing then you would not have to send your child to the NICE side of town (as you put it). A decent education should not be determined by the side of town the building is on. It should be determined by parents working with their child and their child’s teachers. Maybe you should work with the teachers at the school in your community. Make YOUR community the NICE side of town.

By leah

September 11, 2008 10:53 PM | Link to this

i’m all for letting kids walk to school if they live less than a mile away, but the problem for many kids is the simple fact that the roads are not safe. there are no sidewalks, no crosswalks, no walk signals. a lot of times there aren’t even any curbs. they might have to cross busy streets that don’t have stop signs or even traffic lights. also, a lot of parents, myself included, do not own a car. how else our kids supposed to get to school?

By Left Unsaid

September 12, 2008 1:25 AM | Link to this

What’s missing from this debate is that the DeKalb County School System has one of the largest administrative bureaucracies in the Southeast. There are scores of administrators making well over $100,000 per year. Retired administrators get sweet deals as “consultants”. Ex-prinicpals get administrative jobs in which they have no experience. Notice Superintendent Crawford Lewis, who’s been intrenched in the bureaucracy for over 30 years, would rather cut buses for summer school and the such, than cut the administrative waste and bloat at DCSS HQ.

By With Putpose and Dignity

September 12, 2008 4:12 AM | Link to this

The reaklly tragic things about Georgia schools is where many of them are built. Even in the Metro area schools are built in residential areas. This poses a problem because of the difficulty in reaching them by public transportation and most importantly foot. I grew up in a urban area, at that time kids either walked or rode their bikes to school. I would not want my child to walk 1/4 mile because of the lack of sidewalks, poor lighting, poor and often narrow roads and most importantly drivers.

By Alice

September 12, 2008 5:10 AM | Link to this

Dr. Lewis has proposed eliminating nearly 200 positions from the county office as a start. The days of consultants are long gone — very few remain and most them are for very specific jobs that are time limited.

The ex principal thing still remains a problem but once all the positions are eliminated I expect that that will change as well. There are several principals in schools this year that tried to get into the central office and couldn’t, a good sign.

That said, none of this is easy for Dr. Lewis, he loves his friends (fellow employees) and hates to upset parents.

DeKalb county homeowners need to prepare for the fact that they will probably face a property tax hike this year/

By itpdude

September 12, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

It is total bs that parents regularly drive their kids anymore. It is such bs that the areas around schools, entire streets for blocks around, get clogged up because these parents have to drive their precious little b******* to school and not have them on the bus. Gah, the yellow turd is part of the school experience. If you think it’s “below” your kid to ride the bus, put them in pvt school. Otherwise, pay me for my time backed up for you to drop your little welfare write-offs off.

By jim d

September 12, 2008 8:24 AM | Link to this

I’m afraid that DeKalb Superintendent Crawford Lewis’s frustration at what he calls “a brain drain” and his seeing this as a fix to low performing schools fails to recognize that the most firmly established link in education research is the correlation between family income and student test scores.

Poverty is the single biggest predictor of low scores. It is more of a factor than class size or per student spending.

Low scores are not a sign of a poor school, they are a sign of an impoverished neighborhood and low test scores are not evidence of bad teaching. Theyare more a reflection of a kid living in poverty.

Yet this truth is absent from political debate over education even in our current debates for the white house.

The debate should be about how to increase the number of kids who grow up to become well-educated, successful adults. A rational approach to doing so would not focus on test scores and on punishing “bad” teachers and schools, as NCLB does. It should focus on eliminating poverty.

Do y’all think politicans will ever get a clue that stimulating the economy, producing more and better jobs would go further towards producing the desired educational results than all of the sanctions introduced in NCLB?

By concerned citizen

September 12, 2008 8:39 AM | Link to this

Children have a right to a decent education, and we the taxpayers have the responsibility (and obligation) to do our best to provide that to ALL. Given the lack of sidewalks, poorly designed roads with no little or no shoulders, limited (and unsafe) bike lanes, no money for crossing guards, etc. and the fact that busing is better for the environment (and cheaper to the collective WE) than adding more cars to the driving routes to all of these schools, its clear that busing needs to continue.

Georgia nees to do the right thing for its children, and given the vast array of current issues in education, busing seems like a reasonable solution.

It seems to me that a number of the Georgians on this forum need to look deeper in their hearts and accept that THEY are responsible for caring for and educating children, whether or not the children are their children, whether or not they even have school-aged children, and whether or not the children are the flesh and blood of people they like.

If we can’t work together to TRY to give ALL children a good education none of us (or them) are likely to have good futures in our rapidly changing world. PLEASE ask the Governor, and your representatives, to increase school funding, not make more cuts.

By tonya c.

September 12, 2008 8:40 AM | Link to this

Jim D.,

Brilliant. Absolutely, unequivocally the best thing I’ve heard all year. As a black person, I’ve said this for years. I grew up middle-class in a two-parent home and that sets me apart from many who became or were low-performing when I was in school, and that is still true today.

To not acknowledge this critical fact was then and is now a real defect in the system. To think all children can learn the same way and on the same level regardless of socioeconomics is ridiculous and foolish.

By concerned citizen

September 12, 2008 8:55 AM | Link to this

jim d, you are absolutely right about the issues underlying poor achievement. NCLB severely punishes the very people it was designed to help the most. It is a national travesty. What a shame the current system punishes schools and removes vital funding for the individuals who have the fewest resources of all kinds while continuing to fail to address the core issues.

By jim d

September 12, 2008 8:59 AM | Link to this

Tonya,

TY for your comments.

Unfortuntely with the ever growing expenses of raising a family in this country I think things will become much worse before they become better. Until something happens to really spawn economic growth I look for education to continue its downward spiral, which will only have a worsening effect on the economy, causing education to slip even further.

I don’t know what the fix really is but I am confident it will need be one of economics.

By jim d

September 12, 2008 9:08 AM | Link to this

concerned citizen ,

Thanks,

But I fear you maybe a bit off track with “NCLB severely punishes the very people it was designed to help the most” since I firmly believe NCLB was introduced to raise capital for friends and family of our current administration. Too much evidence points that direction.

By tonya c.

September 12, 2008 10:05 AM | Link to this

Socioeconomics has replaced race as the greatest determining factor of success and the leading indicator of it. With the middle-class diminishing faster than the upper-class is being created, we are headed for societal destruction as a superpower nation. Many who assisted in the creation of NCLB realize it, but they are getting to rich off the policy to say anything about it.

I lived in FL for the better part of the Jeb Bush’s reign as governor, and what he did to education in FL to profit his cronies should be considered criminally negligent. He has been so bold as to introduce the FCAT as the NCLB testing requirement, which was written by the company another Bush brother owned. He doesn’t even do the public the diginity of being discreet about it.

By bearcasey

September 12, 2008 10:25 AM | Link to this

Once you understand that DeKalb County schools, like Atlanta Schools before them and Clayton Co. today are nothing but “jobs” programs to promote the “African-American middle class,” it all makes sense. Don’t believe? Go to Georgia State and take courses in Educational Administration as I did. Most of those guys could not balance their checkbooks much less run a school system.

By V for Vendetta

September 12, 2008 11:02 AM | Link to this

” … low test scores are not evidence of bad teaching.”

Wow, jimd. I knew you’d come around one of these days!

:-)

(In point of fact, I know what you mean and I absolutely agree with you. As tonya c. said, socioeconomics are affecting education more than anything else right now.)

By TheBlogger

September 12, 2008 11:13 AM | Link to this

Please excuse me while I pause to step up on my soap box for a moment….

This issue is part of a broader issue. Namely, we have leaders (either voting them into office or whatever) that haven’t a clue how to be fiscally responsible. They seem to think that they can spend and spend without having the money for it and simply go into debt.

This goes for our national leaders (president, congress, etc.), our state leaders (governor, etc.), and also our school system leaders (BOE, etc.). Our current president is doubling the national debt from just two years ago!

A good leader will save money and accumulate a ‘savings’ during the good times in order to have money during the bad times.

Our leaders seem to think that they can spend more during the good times and then go into major debt during bad times - that doesn’t work. That results in budget cuts that are painful and really are unnecessary if we had good leaders. Or, it results into debt that will come payable for our children and grandchildren.

The problem isn’t collections - we already pay enough. The problem isn’t spending on the basics - we actually don’t spend enough on the basics. The problem is mis-management of the real money that we do have to work with - and that takes leadership.

Specifically for education, that means that our “leaders” need to stop spending money on wasteful things such as consultants, excess administration staff, new furniture for the offices, etc., in both good times and bad times.

I’ll now climb down from my soap box.

By Tom in Decatur

September 12, 2008 9:13 PM | Link to this

I’m with Janine. DeKalb could cut 10% of the central office staff each year and wouldn’t hit bone for 50 years.

By Elizabeth

September 13, 2008 1:38 PM | Link to this

“Let go teachers and increase class size”??? Oh, of course.That is definitely the way to go. Cram even more bodies of kids who do not care and do want want to learn together to cause trouble. The more I have in a class, the less stention I am able to give the little darlings with helicopter parents who question every move I make. The less time I have to grade all those essays and projects that are part of my curriculum. Results: less time to address learning issues with kids, fewer projects and essays because more will have to be graded and I can give no more of my own time to do it. More teachers who will leave the clasroom, overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of a job that NO ONE who has not taught will EVER understand. Spend a month with me and then tell me we need to raise class size.

By MrLiberty

September 13, 2008 4:57 PM | Link to this

I’ve spoken with superintendents of school districts in California and they all agree that the only reason they need so much administrative staff is because of the intrusion of the federal government into local school operation.

In other words, the Department of Education MUST GO.

6% of funding and 95%+ of regulations come from washington. You cannot eliminate the administration until you eliminate the regulations - that’s what they are doing all day - complying with the regulations.

But heaven forbid any candidate say that the federal government shut down the DOE and you all cry out that they are against education and the Chillllddddrrrrreeeeennnnn!

You cannot have it both ways but you are so brainwashed by the local school boards, the media, and the school spokespeople that you are unwilling to read up on this to discover that I am correct in what I say.

You all deserve the crappy schools you have. You won’t do a damn responsible thing to fix their underlying problem, but you will use some tired socialist line that EVERYONE is responsible for childrens education to justify the rampant stealing that the government does of money from folks without kids.

Parents are responsible. Forced giving is not called charity, or being a good citizen - it is called theft!

By Leia

September 13, 2008 6:47 PM | Link to this

*V for Vendetta, Tonya C. - don’t be impressed by Jim D’s 8:24 blog!

Anytime he posts something that has fewer than 5 spelling and/or grammatical errors, copy and paste his entry in Google! You will find that he has plagiarized someone else’s coherent and insightful thoughts!

By jim d

September 14, 2008 6:14 AM | Link to this

Very Good Leia,

I’m certain your employer is proud of your efforts to discredit. Seems this is his standard MO when threatened with the truth.

With elections right around the corner it is easy to understand his concerns about matters of the past reflecting upon his leadership and the mere mention of the teacher that kicked his a$$ usually sends him into a fits of rage.

While that incident was rather embarrassing for him I really feel his concerns should be more about voters learning the truth about the boards violations of Ga. Sunshine laws, the firing of a CFO who was about to bring business as usual to a screaming halt, his actions against a child in a wheel chair in efforts to silence his mother, the abuses of power during the Gateway scandal and the attempted contribution of tax dollars to a religious organization. Not to mention the many atrocities against teachers who fail to get in line or against other parents he’s literally forced to leave the state in the best interest of their children.

Keep up the good work, you might actually end up with a well paying, do nothing job in the central office.

By Meme

September 15, 2008 7:08 AM | Link to this

What about the adults (teachers and staff) driving to school? I drive about 9 miles (one-way) to my school and almost all the gas stations I passed this morning were either out of gas or 4.49 a gallon. Soon, I won’t be able to drive to my job.

By jim d

September 15, 2008 7:56 AM | Link to this

meme,

If you feel you’ve been gouged at the gas pump, save their receipt and contact the Governor’s Office of Consumer Affairs:

In the metro area— 404-651-8600

Outside the metro area—- 800-869-1123

Or you can go online to file a complaint.

By TheBlogger

September 15, 2008 10:06 AM | Link to this

Glad to see gas prices up? Happy about being unemployed? Thrilled about the large increases in prices for food, clothing, and so on?

Happy about our national debt? Thrilled to see us spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in Iraq? Excited about our national debt causing our savings (stocks, interest rates, etc.) to disappear? Looking forward to your children and gradchildren paying down this large national debt?

Happy that the top 1% of the population is getting more and more wealthy in the US? Thrilled that the middle class is getting poorer. Excited to see many that were in the middle class dropped to the lower class?

Then you should be ready to vote repbulican!

By Michael

September 16, 2008 7:49 PM | Link to this

I thought kids today were too fat already. LET EM WALK!

By jim d

September 17, 2008 2:29 PM | Link to this

Here’s an update